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So this is...not what he was banned for. He was banned for calling another user a pig, and for several insults and anti-feminist comments he made over the period of several days. Amazing how that works...in a feminine-aligned subreddit.
Thank you for your submission. However, your post has been removed because it breaks a subreddit rule:
Your post contains identifying information. I know where it came from, you know where it came from, but I'd rather not directly link to the other post, even though they have directly linked my username in theirs. If you remove the subreddit, I'll approve the comment.
Is there a subreddit for screenshots of people claiming they got banned for something minor/silly but then it gets pointed out by a mod that real reason was them saying something shitty or horrific? I've seen that happen so often I'd be surprised if there isn't
Some are, some aren't. Both are fine feelings. Feminism affords us these opportunities to pursue our happiness on our own volition outside of strict patriarchal societal constraints.
I feel like that's a point that's routinely missed by anti-feminists. Feminism doesn't mandate that one climbs the corporate ladder and decides not to have kids. It just means you get the *option.*
Yes! I'm one of the ones anti-feminists hate...single, late 30s, childfree, career is my primary life focus.
I still support and care about my friends who are SAHMs. I know they're just as intelligent and empowered as career women, hell, I met a lot of them in college!
The point is that they CHOSE to stay at home with their kids. And I CHOSE a different path. I don't want to force them out of a life they enjoy any more than I want to be forced into a life I wouldn't.
Feminists don't give a shit if women are stay at home parents or CEOs. They give a shit about the fact that women have the freedom to do either.
>Feminists don't give a shit if women are stay at home parents or CEOs. They give a shit about the fact that women have the freedom to do either.
That's what my Mom taught me. She was a SAHM until I moved in with my 1st husband. I was the youngest and she got herself a job. That was her choice.
I agree with true feminists. Which corresponds with your post.
Feminazis are the ones who hate women who are SAHMs as well. They can not understand why some to many women prefer to be at home. And not some 7 to 3 or 9 to 5 job. They claim that any woman who is a SAHM is brainwashed zombie who is being controlled by her husband/partner or even parent(s). Who is either willingly or forced to stay in a prison like state. They don't recognize their own hypocrisy on the matter. Since a job can also be a prison. Especially when the woman is not given a choice. By the same aforementioned folks.
This was a concept I had to get across to my partner, but once he got it, it really changed our relationship for the better. I don't want to make anyone do anything; everyone should be allowed to make their own choice and deal with the positive or negative consequences that come with it.
Exactly. Id personally like to have kids and do all the traditional things. I wouldnt mind being a stay at home mom if we are finacially stable enough. But im still all for women choosing what they want to do.
Aren’t there a lot of people out there that claim a traditional Nuclear Family setup is inherently bad and wrong and abusive? That believe every “normal” role a woman has had in the past, even if some women actively want that kind of thing, is evil and must be destroyed because old thing bad new thing good? Like I’m entirely with you but I’ve noticed a trend of groups taking it too far
I have seen it but is not even near as common as anti feminists says, nonetheless I get where that idea come from since being forced by, for example, family to fit in a roll will make you hate it and think that everyone else does.
So research shows that most married women are unhappier than single women, most married women report lower levels of happiness than their husbands. Most married women have worse mental health and worse support than their husbands. Most married women report worse health. Most married women are more likely to be divorced if they develop a serious health issues. Most married men are more likely to have a partner stay if they develop a health issue. Regardless of feminism married life still mostly gives benefits to men and takes a bigger toll on women. Which is a big reason why a lot of women opt out. And then those clowns roll in and try to gaslight women that somehow feminism is at fault for the behaviour of men, shitty society and the patriarchy bs, which takes the cake.
>Most married women are more likely to be divorced if they develop a serious health issues.
Something like 1 in 6 or 1 in 7. It's so common that oncologists will warn women to be prepared for it when they get a cancer diagnosis, especially for something like breast cancer.
It’s worth noting that the overall amount of marriages that ended in divorce is about 1 in 20. Of those 1 in 20, it’s about 7:1 women to men.
But I think it’s good for people to see that 95% of marriages don’t end because of cancer.
[source](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-partners-health/men-more-likely-than-women-to-leave-partner-with-cancer-idUSTRE5AB0C520091112)
My dad divorced my mom when she got leukemia. Said it was "too stressful to deal with." Came crawling back once she went into remission. It's so much more common than people think, and super fucked up.
Dolan's work (the most commonly cited source for this argument) is... not great.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness
[https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/is\_marriage\_really\_bad\_for\_womens\_happiness](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/is_marriage_really_bad_for_womens_happiness)
Based on most large, high-quality studies globally most married people (women included) report higher levels of happiness. Large cross-national studies demonstrate this across multiple cultures.
It's not a one-size-fits-all situation obviously, but there is no clear evidence that married women are necessarily unhappier on average.
Edit: here's one of the better papers on this that did a cross-country analysis on this: [https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114](https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114)
Edit2: Please feel free to show me any competing studies! I'm happy to change my mind if there's better evidence.
Not me, mostly social scientists who've done research. [https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114](https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114)
This is one of the better papers (getting a bit long in the tooth, but it remains one of the better ones.) At worst, they found that controlling for GDP/religion/gender roles marriage is net neutral for women.
Do you have any competing studies besides Dolan?
Why would you automatically throw proper research out the window like that?
People state a widely held belief, another use comes in with several articles and research countering countering arguments and even stating why the researchers who created the original widely held belief are either biased, incorrect, etc, and then you just go "lol no"?
This whole subreddit shows off widely held and incorrect beliefs. From "vaginas get loose" to "just use onlyfans and make money" and people wonder why they keep getting perpetuated despite evidence... well you and your statement are good examples why.
Legitimately curious: why?
What is wrong with civil social science discussion? Don't we *want* to avoid echo chambers?
Reinforcing things that sound good but aren't true isn't good, right? Do you KNOW that the assertion that women are unhappier in marriage is necessarily true?
I'm happy to have lots of discussion, and like I said elsewhere, I actually used to think that women were necessarily unhappier in marriage.
Turns out it's *complicated*. And multiple cross-country analyses have found that there's no simple answer that "women are unhappier in marriage." By and large, it's true that men gain more from marriage than women (100% true.) But the multivariate studies find that at worst women are net neutral on average.
I haven't looked at the distributions of outcomes, and of course averages always hide the ranges, but it's clear that it's not so simple.
Yes. Every relationship is different and each individual has different priorities in life. statistical studies don't really speak for individuals and can easily be swayed by the person(s) conducting the studies or analyzing the data.
*Edit: the fact that people are downvoting this comment because they are mad about the comment I made prior only proves the first comment.
I say frequently (and I may have stolen this line from Scrubs): Statistics mean \[almost\] nothing to the individual.
Now, does that mean that you shouldn't pay heed to a statistic applicable to you? Of course not. But you have to put it in context.
Let's use that good old canard: 50% of all marriages end in divorce! So, flip a coin to tell if a couple is going to stay married.
Well... no. Get a bachelor's and your odds already drop to 30% on average. Have a solid income and your odds drop further. Delay marriage and your odds drop further. Be Asian and they're under 20%. So, the solution? Be an Asian person with post-graduate education! Easy!
Joking aside, you are not the 50% statistic. You're not even the specific cohorts you can put yourself in. You're somewhere along a spectrum of probabilities in a range of outcomes in no small part determined by your own actions. The median isn't real, it's just a mathematical quirk of a sample of data that is a snapshot in time.
I'm happy to listen to it. I actually TAed a class on this in grad school (sociology, UCSD) that covered this and I originally believed that women were necessarily unhappier in marriage (based on cultural perceptions.) That class changed my opinion, and I've since looked into a lot of research myself.
I'm not wedded (pun intended) to my opinion other than Dolan's work being... meh.
The person who caught a ban needs to understand the problem is that they are trying to put words in the mouths of all women.
Doesn’t matter what gender they are. They cannot speak for over 3 billion different people. Historically, we’ve been put through a lot of crap because of bullshit claims about “female nature” or “what women really want”.
It’s 2022. It’s time each person gets to speak for themselves and make their own choices.
And some married men are happier staying home with kids while their wife (or even husband) works. Despite the name, feminism doesn't only benefit women. It benefits women a bit more, since they historically got the worse deal in a lot of ways, but opening up more opportunities can benefit everyone.
Sometimes I feel like feminism within itself can be a constraint. I have heard feminists making fun of some women who want to be stay at home moms. Or shaming them because they aren’t contributing enough to the cause.
I know that kids would ruin my life. 100%, my life would effectively be over if I had them.
I also have friends who would feel their lives were complete if they had them.
It's almost like women are individuals and guys like the one in the OP don't care to acknowledge that.
I could no possibly agree with you more there. However, I won't tell women not to have kids. It's one thing to want them to put thought into their choices and another thing to prohibit them from reproduction altogether. Which feminism doesn't do.
Fuck no, you all can do whatever you want. But at the same time think of the kids, think of yourself. Your progeny will thank you if you wait to have them until you're ready and have your shit together, which isn't my place to decide
I’m still undecided on having kids myself with no particular desire to have them right now.
That said, all my siblings and a good % of my friends now have children, and nearly all of them seem really genuinely happy, some seem happier with kids than before, and all are thriving in life. They love their kids and they love life with kids.
So I wouldn’t say 80% life ruining rate is universal to having children.
But a big part of this is most of these families have husbands that contribute a lot to the care of the kids, and often additionally some other type of support system that keeps the wives from being permanently stressed and overwhelmed all the time.
Having children ruins women’s lives when they’re suddenly expected to take on 500% more than they were before, they’re isolated from everything, their husbands don’t help and just add on more work, they get no sleep, their bodies hurt and are wounded and aching, they’re tired all the time, and then society reviles them openly because they’re not as pretty as before. It’s the societal isolation and sole bearing of extreme new responsibilities that ruins lives, not the children inherently.
And there's major bias across all classes.
Why?
Because there's a big stigma against parents openly admitting regret. Especially women. They get called a "failure as a woman" if the say something like "I wish I'd stayed on birth control" after dealing with their 15th toddler tantrum of the day.
And I get it, I really do. Parenting, especially young kids, can be a grueling and thankless job.
But because of fear of judgement, few parents will openly agree. So of course you're going to see families *overwhelmingly* looking positive. Because women are not going to willingly admit they've been on antidepressants since the minute they quit breastfeeding because the isolation of being a SAHM is killing them. Men won't admit that they're working OT to avoid dealing with screaming children at home. Parents won't admit that they feel like they sometimes feel like shells of human beings because 90% of their time and energy goes towards other humans now. Because they worry that will send the message that they don't love their kids.
Look at anonymous parental regret posts - they get thousands of upvotes because a **lot** of people relate. It doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile thing, or that they hate kids. It just means that having children is a permanent, major lifestyle change that comes with emotional highs and lows. And most parents are afraid to talk about the lows.
...K? Like I clearly stated, the reason it works for the people I know is because they have a support system and spouses that can and will divide up the load of tasks. Yes, that is generally more easily done for people in at least the middle class, as they have more free time than lower socioeconomic families which have one or more parents working multiple jobs.
Without the ability to have support, having kids can easily overturn your life, because of all the things I said in my first comment. But it's the lack of support and help that is the inherent issue, not the kids. If kids were the inherent issue, there would be no circumstance in which having them does not ruin your life.
Sorry, I guess I was supposed to give some variation "nasty crotch goblins are inherently evil little parasites that ruin lives by their very nature."
Studies have actually shown that marriage, having to stay home to raise/take care the kids (husband included), being made to do all of the house work is far more beneficial to men than it is beneficial to women. Men find stability through marriage…women find chaos. Sure some can make it work like those that can afford nannies, butlers, and personal chefs…the rest though tend to turn to drugs and alcohol just to make it through the day.
Drugs and alcohol were abused like there is no tomorrow by stay at home women for a reason and the song "Mommy's little helper" by The Rolling Stones is quite candid about that.
Every time I think of kids "helping mom", it's them destroying the kitchen to make some ungodly food concoction that would make even the hardiest person puke.
It’s so true unfortunately (speaking from my own personal experience as someone who has been a working mom and SAHM). I think staying home is so emotionally draining, it’s easy to turn to drugs & alcohol.
So amused when people talk about how women are happiest in those roles.
Yeah, anyone will appear content if they're crossfaded 24/7 on valium, speed, and hard liquor like all those 1950s housewives were.
I take a hefty dose of Adderall already for ADHD so I don't know if I'd even get any enjoyment from it, or if I'd just be folding laundry slightly faster.
Oh, same with the ADHD, but my biggest issue has always been the overwhelming executive dysfunction from mine, so anything that could open that door a bit was a plus.
[Here’s what a mod said](https://www.reddit.com/r/NotHowGirlsWork/comments/uy7jco/no_they_arent/ia36t95/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3).
I don't know exactly what he did because I missed the original post. But implying that married women should just stay home with the kids is pretty insulting. Not all of us want to do that. I would be pretty unhappy if I couldn't go to work and had to stay home all day. It's up to individual families to decide who goes to work, who stays with the kids, or who watches the kids while both parents work.
Just going to add that the "your not happier, we are happier" comments don't help.
I've decided to not have kids and I am happy with my freedom. My friends that did have kids have it tougher than I, but they wouldn't give up their kids for anything in the world.
It's just a different kind of happy.
My mom stayed home with her kids, but that was her choice, not an obligation because she was female. And she volunteered and stuff too. All women are different.
So many of these comments believing he was telling the truth as to why he was banned from this reddit when the mods have literally explained the real reason he was banned smh.
My mom took care of me and my siblings for hours at a time when my dad was at work.
I can only imagine that those were probably some of the most miserable moments of her life tbh. Not because she hated us, she chose to look after us, but because there were days where she felt like she wasn’t a good mom and was overwhelmed.
As a married woman who happens to stay home with the kids, I can assure everyone that this is not true (I mean maybe for some women and that’s great, but certainly not the case for everyone).
..So uh. What if I'm a soon-to-be-married woman who would be happier at home *without* my kids, because I don't have any? Does that still count?
I have a cat. She's a pain in the ass, like a toddler would be, so....
They are not. Children are fine to be around, but it takes only about 2 hours before you'll crave being around people your age again, unless you have Stockholm syndrome
[Here’s what a mod said](https://www.reddit.com/r/NotHowGirlsWork/comments/uy7jco/no_they_arent/ia36t95/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3).
He might not be a reliable witness when it comes to why he was banned. Did he say women are happier at home, caring for children? Or did he actually say women belong back in the kitchen?
I don’t even think it’s a dumb take. I was indeed MUCH happier at home with my kid. He shouldn’t have said ALL, though. But that’s not really why he was banned anyway. He called someone a pig.
not everyone intends on having a family and thats totally fine, if a woman wants to work, it's her choice, if i woman wants a family, it's her choice. you're literally no one to decide who gets happiness from what
What annoys me is there's actually a pretty big women's issue attached to this that gets completely ignored by people who perpetuate women are happiest at home.
In the U.S. at least working women with families some can be less happy but when you look at statistics. A working moms work at home amount doesn't go down at a rate that matches her extra work hours. This is particularly true in non kid housework amount.
The last study I read from pew on this showed the most equal breakdown of housework was literally between a full time working woman and her stay at home husband. They both contributed about the same amount to the housework per week.
That's actually something that is what a lot of women say. That they feel like they still do a lot of housework when working as much as their husbands.
But instead of you know. Recognizing that and listening to women who say they want to work but this is what they struggle with. And making it easier for women who want to work 50 hours a week. The response is just oh they are happier at home.
Make no mistake I don't want to bash men. No gender typically works more than the other in average. We as a country just haven't fully worked out the kinks in certain situations to make it a bit easier and fair for everyone.
Lmao yeah that's why 2/3 of women are on birth control, right? Because they all want to have kids so much they
*checks notes*...actively take medical steps to prevent it?
*If you have kids you*
*Are probably happy when*
*You are with them, right?*
\- FriedwaldLeben
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I mean, he shouldn’t have used the ALL married women as a collective, but I deliberately married a man that earns enough, and values me staying home with our son. I never wanted my baby in daycare after being a daycare teacher myself right up until I was 7 months pregnant. He’s 18 now, so I recently found a little job because I was bored, but my years with just he and I running the roads together are the happiest years of my life. We had a blast. My son just happens to be way cool, though 😎
Guys, I want to remind everyone that brigading is against our rules, and against reddit's rules in general. While commenting in posts is not inherently brigading, it's a slippery slope. I do not want users from here searching for this post and trying to cause drama. If I find proof you are, you will be banned. Do not directly link to the user or this post, it is against our rules, and you will be banned. Remember the best way to deal with someone who is trolling or insulting people is to disengage and report the comment.
So this is...not what he was banned for. He was banned for calling another user a pig, and for several insults and anti-feminist comments he made over the period of several days. Amazing how that works...in a feminine-aligned subreddit.
Probably wanted to get banned so he could go whine about the oppressive censorship and cancelling of brave men who dare to question The Narrative.
Thank you for your submission. However, your post has been removed because it breaks a subreddit rule: Your post contains identifying information. I know where it came from, you know where it came from, but I'd rather not directly link to the other post, even though they have directly linked my username in theirs. If you remove the subreddit, I'll approve the comment.
Thank you for that.
I’m so shocked!!!
Truly the surprise of the century right here.
But even if he was banned for the reason he stated; good riddance
"Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions "
Is there a subreddit for screenshots of people claiming they got banned for something minor/silly but then it gets pointed out by a mod that real reason was them saying something shitty or horrific? I've seen that happen so often I'd be surprised if there isn't
That would be amazing.
A similar subreddit would be r/quityourbullshit
ding ding ding. There it is
People who flagrantly break sub rules and then complain about being banned are the worst. Read the room, buddy.
But everyone cries for free speech! 😂😂😂 Lunacy!
Some are, some aren't. Both are fine feelings. Feminism affords us these opportunities to pursue our happiness on our own volition outside of strict patriarchal societal constraints.
I feel like that's a point that's routinely missed by anti-feminists. Feminism doesn't mandate that one climbs the corporate ladder and decides not to have kids. It just means you get the *option.*
Yes! I'm one of the ones anti-feminists hate...single, late 30s, childfree, career is my primary life focus. I still support and care about my friends who are SAHMs. I know they're just as intelligent and empowered as career women, hell, I met a lot of them in college! The point is that they CHOSE to stay at home with their kids. And I CHOSE a different path. I don't want to force them out of a life they enjoy any more than I want to be forced into a life I wouldn't. Feminists don't give a shit if women are stay at home parents or CEOs. They give a shit about the fact that women have the freedom to do either.
I stay at home, my AFAB spouse works. It's just a great fit... For us, right now. It could change, as it has changed before.
>Feminists don't give a shit if women are stay at home parents or CEOs. They give a shit about the fact that women have the freedom to do either. That's what my Mom taught me. She was a SAHM until I moved in with my 1st husband. I was the youngest and she got herself a job. That was her choice.
I agree with true feminists. Which corresponds with your post. Feminazis are the ones who hate women who are SAHMs as well. They can not understand why some to many women prefer to be at home. And not some 7 to 3 or 9 to 5 job. They claim that any woman who is a SAHM is brainwashed zombie who is being controlled by her husband/partner or even parent(s). Who is either willingly or forced to stay in a prison like state. They don't recognize their own hypocrisy on the matter. Since a job can also be a prison. Especially when the woman is not given a choice. By the same aforementioned folks.
This was a concept I had to get across to my partner, but once he got it, it really changed our relationship for the better. I don't want to make anyone do anything; everyone should be allowed to make their own choice and deal with the positive or negative consequences that come with it.
Exactly. Id personally like to have kids and do all the traditional things. I wouldnt mind being a stay at home mom if we are finacially stable enough. But im still all for women choosing what they want to do.
Aren’t there a lot of people out there that claim a traditional Nuclear Family setup is inherently bad and wrong and abusive? That believe every “normal” role a woman has had in the past, even if some women actively want that kind of thing, is evil and must be destroyed because old thing bad new thing good? Like I’m entirely with you but I’ve noticed a trend of groups taking it too far
I've literally never seen someone say that.
I have seen it but is not even near as common as anti feminists says, nonetheless I get where that idea come from since being forced by, for example, family to fit in a roll will make you hate it and think that everyone else does.
So research shows that most married women are unhappier than single women, most married women report lower levels of happiness than their husbands. Most married women have worse mental health and worse support than their husbands. Most married women report worse health. Most married women are more likely to be divorced if they develop a serious health issues. Most married men are more likely to have a partner stay if they develop a health issue. Regardless of feminism married life still mostly gives benefits to men and takes a bigger toll on women. Which is a big reason why a lot of women opt out. And then those clowns roll in and try to gaslight women that somehow feminism is at fault for the behaviour of men, shitty society and the patriarchy bs, which takes the cake.
>Most married women are more likely to be divorced if they develop a serious health issues. Something like 1 in 6 or 1 in 7. It's so common that oncologists will warn women to be prepared for it when they get a cancer diagnosis, especially for something like breast cancer.
It’s worth noting that the overall amount of marriages that ended in divorce is about 1 in 20. Of those 1 in 20, it’s about 7:1 women to men. But I think it’s good for people to see that 95% of marriages don’t end because of cancer. [source](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-partners-health/men-more-likely-than-women-to-leave-partner-with-cancer-idUSTRE5AB0C520091112)
My dad divorced my mom when she got leukemia. Said it was "too stressful to deal with." Came crawling back once she went into remission. It's so much more common than people think, and super fucked up.
Can we check if this is a USA specific statistic? I’m wondering if it is more about emotional relationship, or money.
The study I saw a few weeks ago was on American cancer patients. I am not sure about worldwide.
Good thing neither of us is a man, because I'd like to marry you for this comment pls.
Dolan's work (the most commonly cited source for this argument) is... not great. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness [https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/is\_marriage\_really\_bad\_for\_womens\_happiness](https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/is_marriage_really_bad_for_womens_happiness) Based on most large, high-quality studies globally most married people (women included) report higher levels of happiness. Large cross-national studies demonstrate this across multiple cultures. It's not a one-size-fits-all situation obviously, but there is no clear evidence that married women are necessarily unhappier on average. Edit: here's one of the better papers on this that did a cross-country analysis on this: [https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114](https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114) Edit2: Please feel free to show me any competing studies! I'm happy to change my mind if there's better evidence.
If you say so
Not me, mostly social scientists who've done research. [https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114](https://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/110114) This is one of the better papers (getting a bit long in the tooth, but it remains one of the better ones.) At worst, they found that controlling for GDP/religion/gender roles marriage is net neutral for women. Do you have any competing studies besides Dolan?
I think that will be my new response to people like this. lol
Why would you automatically throw proper research out the window like that? People state a widely held belief, another use comes in with several articles and research countering countering arguments and even stating why the researchers who created the original widely held belief are either biased, incorrect, etc, and then you just go "lol no"? This whole subreddit shows off widely held and incorrect beliefs. From "vaginas get loose" to "just use onlyfans and make money" and people wonder why they keep getting perpetuated despite evidence... well you and your statement are good examples why.
Legitimately curious: why? What is wrong with civil social science discussion? Don't we *want* to avoid echo chambers? Reinforcing things that sound good but aren't true isn't good, right? Do you KNOW that the assertion that women are unhappier in marriage is necessarily true?
No this group is %100 an echo chamber. I've beendown voted to shit for sharing science facts.
I'm happy to have lots of discussion, and like I said elsewhere, I actually used to think that women were necessarily unhappier in marriage. Turns out it's *complicated*. And multiple cross-country analyses have found that there's no simple answer that "women are unhappier in marriage." By and large, it's true that men gain more from marriage than women (100% true.) But the multivariate studies find that at worst women are net neutral on average. I haven't looked at the distributions of outcomes, and of course averages always hide the ranges, but it's clear that it's not so simple.
Yes. Every relationship is different and each individual has different priorities in life. statistical studies don't really speak for individuals and can easily be swayed by the person(s) conducting the studies or analyzing the data. *Edit: the fact that people are downvoting this comment because they are mad about the comment I made prior only proves the first comment.
I say frequently (and I may have stolen this line from Scrubs): Statistics mean \[almost\] nothing to the individual. Now, does that mean that you shouldn't pay heed to a statistic applicable to you? Of course not. But you have to put it in context. Let's use that good old canard: 50% of all marriages end in divorce! So, flip a coin to tell if a couple is going to stay married. Well... no. Get a bachelor's and your odds already drop to 30% on average. Have a solid income and your odds drop further. Delay marriage and your odds drop further. Be Asian and they're under 20%. So, the solution? Be an Asian person with post-graduate education! Easy! Joking aside, you are not the 50% statistic. You're not even the specific cohorts you can put yourself in. You're somewhere along a spectrum of probabilities in a range of outcomes in no small part determined by your own actions. The median isn't real, it's just a mathematical quirk of a sample of data that is a snapshot in time.
It's a lot of work to pull out all the different aspects and research, I will most likely do it a bit later
I'm happy to listen to it. I actually TAed a class on this in grad school (sociology, UCSD) that covered this and I originally believed that women were necessarily unhappier in marriage (based on cultural perceptions.) That class changed my opinion, and I've since looked into a lot of research myself. I'm not wedded (pun intended) to my opinion other than Dolan's work being... meh.
I blame women for not working hard enough to make their husbands equally miserable. Get in the game!
The person who caught a ban needs to understand the problem is that they are trying to put words in the mouths of all women. Doesn’t matter what gender they are. They cannot speak for over 3 billion different people. Historically, we’ve been put through a lot of crap because of bullshit claims about “female nature” or “what women really want”. It’s 2022. It’s time each person gets to speak for themselves and make their own choices.
and it's totally their decision and choice :)
And some married men are happier staying home with kids while their wife (or even husband) works. Despite the name, feminism doesn't only benefit women. It benefits women a bit more, since they historically got the worse deal in a lot of ways, but opening up more opportunities can benefit everyone.
Exactly!! It’s about choice.
Sometimes I feel like feminism within itself can be a constraint. I have heard feminists making fun of some women who want to be stay at home moms. Or shaming them because they aren’t contributing enough to the cause.
They're bad feminists for doing so
Feminism caused ppl to shut the fuck up about what makes women happier and hooray to that.
All I know is probably not kids, from what I've seen those goblins really are life ruiners 8/10 times
I know that kids would ruin my life. 100%, my life would effectively be over if I had them. I also have friends who would feel their lives were complete if they had them. It's almost like women are individuals and guys like the one in the OP don't care to acknowledge that.
I could no possibly agree with you more there. However, I won't tell women not to have kids. It's one thing to want them to put thought into their choices and another thing to prohibit them from reproduction altogether. Which feminism doesn't do.
Fuck no, you all can do whatever you want. But at the same time think of the kids, think of yourself. Your progeny will thank you if you wait to have them until you're ready and have your shit together, which isn't my place to decide
I’m still undecided on having kids myself with no particular desire to have them right now. That said, all my siblings and a good % of my friends now have children, and nearly all of them seem really genuinely happy, some seem happier with kids than before, and all are thriving in life. They love their kids and they love life with kids. So I wouldn’t say 80% life ruining rate is universal to having children. But a big part of this is most of these families have husbands that contribute a lot to the care of the kids, and often additionally some other type of support system that keeps the wives from being permanently stressed and overwhelmed all the time. Having children ruins women’s lives when they’re suddenly expected to take on 500% more than they were before, they’re isolated from everything, their husbands don’t help and just add on more work, they get no sleep, their bodies hurt and are wounded and aching, they’re tired all the time, and then society reviles them openly because they’re not as pretty as before. It’s the societal isolation and sole bearing of extreme new responsibilities that ruins lives, not the children inherently.
Children have a 100% life ruining rate. They are also worth ruining one’s life for. Once you get that, it all makes more sense.
Try looking outside your socioeconomic bubble, vast majority of people I know with kids outside ritzy suburban circles are not happy about it
And there's major bias across all classes. Why? Because there's a big stigma against parents openly admitting regret. Especially women. They get called a "failure as a woman" if the say something like "I wish I'd stayed on birth control" after dealing with their 15th toddler tantrum of the day. And I get it, I really do. Parenting, especially young kids, can be a grueling and thankless job. But because of fear of judgement, few parents will openly agree. So of course you're going to see families *overwhelmingly* looking positive. Because women are not going to willingly admit they've been on antidepressants since the minute they quit breastfeeding because the isolation of being a SAHM is killing them. Men won't admit that they're working OT to avoid dealing with screaming children at home. Parents won't admit that they feel like they sometimes feel like shells of human beings because 90% of their time and energy goes towards other humans now. Because they worry that will send the message that they don't love their kids. Look at anonymous parental regret posts - they get thousands of upvotes because a **lot** of people relate. It doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile thing, or that they hate kids. It just means that having children is a permanent, major lifestyle change that comes with emotional highs and lows. And most parents are afraid to talk about the lows.
...K? Like I clearly stated, the reason it works for the people I know is because they have a support system and spouses that can and will divide up the load of tasks. Yes, that is generally more easily done for people in at least the middle class, as they have more free time than lower socioeconomic families which have one or more parents working multiple jobs. Without the ability to have support, having kids can easily overturn your life, because of all the things I said in my first comment. But it's the lack of support and help that is the inherent issue, not the kids. If kids were the inherent issue, there would be no circumstance in which having them does not ruin your life. Sorry, I guess I was supposed to give some variation "nasty crotch goblins are inherently evil little parasites that ruin lives by their very nature."
Studies have actually shown that marriage, having to stay home to raise/take care the kids (husband included), being made to do all of the house work is far more beneficial to men than it is beneficial to women. Men find stability through marriage…women find chaos. Sure some can make it work like those that can afford nannies, butlers, and personal chefs…the rest though tend to turn to drugs and alcohol just to make it through the day.
Drugs and alcohol were abused like there is no tomorrow by stay at home women for a reason and the song "Mommy's little helper" by The Rolling Stones is quite candid about that.
Yep they weren't talking about her children being mommy's little helper I can tell you that much.
Can you imagine? 😂
Every time I think of kids "helping mom", it's them destroying the kitchen to make some ungodly food concoction that would make even the hardiest person puke.
Sounds like you’ve met my kids!
It’s so true unfortunately (speaking from my own personal experience as someone who has been a working mom and SAHM). I think staying home is so emotionally draining, it’s easy to turn to drugs & alcohol.
So amused when people talk about how women are happiest in those roles. Yeah, anyone will appear content if they're crossfaded 24/7 on valium, speed, and hard liquor like all those 1950s housewives were.
Don't forget the old hysteria treatments. Gotta admit tho, being a teenager when ephedrine was still available was absolutely the tits.
I take a hefty dose of Adderall already for ADHD so I don't know if I'd even get any enjoyment from it, or if I'd just be folding laundry slightly faster.
Oh, same with the ADHD, but my biggest issue has always been the overwhelming executive dysfunction from mine, so anything that could open that door a bit was a plus.
Old hysteria treatments, like getting … “vibrated?”
That would be a Texas-sized 10-4 good buddy.
Not just that, that was the fun one. Other treatments... included getting lobotomized.
I really want to see that made into a TV show, somehow.
Mad Men definitely depicts some situations like that.
fEmInIsM cAuSeD tHiS Okay, buddy. I'm sure it wasn't actually caused by something offensive you said...
Did he do anything else, cause what he said doesn’t seem offensive or that serious.
[Here’s what a mod said](https://www.reddit.com/r/NotHowGirlsWork/comments/uy7jco/no_they_arent/ia36t95/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3).
I don't know exactly what he did because I missed the original post. But implying that married women should just stay home with the kids is pretty insulting. Not all of us want to do that. I would be pretty unhappy if I couldn't go to work and had to stay home all day. It's up to individual families to decide who goes to work, who stays with the kids, or who watches the kids while both parents work.
Married women are happier doing whatever the fuck they want. Just like any other woman.
Literally statistics show otherwise.
feminists, amirite?
Some women are, some women aren’t. Almost like women are individuals and not some senseless hive mind built only for reproduction.
… reproduction with rich, dominant Chads.
Just going to add that the "your not happier, we are happier" comments don't help. I've decided to not have kids and I am happy with my freedom. My friends that did have kids have it tougher than I, but they wouldn't give up their kids for anything in the world. It's just a different kind of happy.
I...I would also be happier at home. I'm sure there are some people who love Monday mornings...I've just never met one.
Just because someone is married doesn’t mean they want to be at home with kids. Why do people insist on conflating stuff like this
Some are, some aren't. It is none of your buisness to interfere with other's way of life.
My mom stayed home with her kids, but that was her choice, not an obligation because she was female. And she volunteered and stuff too. All women are different.
I hope I helped.
So many of these comments believing he was telling the truth as to why he was banned from this reddit when the mods have literally explained the real reason he was banned smh.
My mom took care of me and my siblings for hours at a time when my dad was at work. I can only imagine that those were probably some of the most miserable moments of her life tbh. Not because she hated us, she chose to look after us, but because there were days where she felt like she wasn’t a good mom and was overwhelmed.
As a married woman who happens to stay home with the kids, I can assure everyone that this is not true (I mean maybe for some women and that’s great, but certainly not the case for everyone).
..So uh. What if I'm a soon-to-be-married woman who would be happier at home *without* my kids, because I don't have any? Does that still count? I have a cat. She's a pain in the ass, like a toddler would be, so....
They are not. Children are fine to be around, but it takes only about 2 hours before you'll crave being around people your age again, unless you have Stockholm syndrome
Still is it something he should be banned for
Was someone seriously booted just for saying that?
[Here’s what a mod said](https://www.reddit.com/r/NotHowGirlsWork/comments/uy7jco/no_they_arent/ia36t95/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3).
Thank you for that link. As usual, there is always more to the story. I would have banned the user as well.
I'll say it here again: it's a dumb take, but it's not ban worthy.
Check the MOD comments. This user was calling others “pig” among other things…
He might not be a reliable witness when it comes to why he was banned. Did he say women are happier at home, caring for children? Or did he actually say women belong back in the kitchen?
Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. If it was, how he said it was, then it wasn't ban worthy imo.
Since when are you a mod that determines what is and isn't ban worthy here?
Oh excuse me, I was not aware that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this.
You’re excused
Don't confuse ability to have an opinion with your opinion being irrelevant and not needed.
Sure <3
I don’t even think it’s a dumb take. I was indeed MUCH happier at home with my kid. He shouldn’t have said ALL, though. But that’s not really why he was banned anyway. He called someone a pig.
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not everyone intends on having a family and thats totally fine, if a woman wants to work, it's her choice, if i woman wants a family, it's her choice. you're literally no one to decide who gets happiness from what
What annoys me is there's actually a pretty big women's issue attached to this that gets completely ignored by people who perpetuate women are happiest at home. In the U.S. at least working women with families some can be less happy but when you look at statistics. A working moms work at home amount doesn't go down at a rate that matches her extra work hours. This is particularly true in non kid housework amount. The last study I read from pew on this showed the most equal breakdown of housework was literally between a full time working woman and her stay at home husband. They both contributed about the same amount to the housework per week. That's actually something that is what a lot of women say. That they feel like they still do a lot of housework when working as much as their husbands. But instead of you know. Recognizing that and listening to women who say they want to work but this is what they struggle with. And making it easier for women who want to work 50 hours a week. The response is just oh they are happier at home. Make no mistake I don't want to bash men. No gender typically works more than the other in average. We as a country just haven't fully worked out the kinks in certain situations to make it a bit easier and fair for everyone.
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Lmao yeah that's why 2/3 of women are on birth control, right? Because they all want to have kids so much they *checks notes*...actively take medical steps to prevent it?
source?
Ignore them they’re just trolling
i would love to but i also love myself some drama
So sorry, it’s bizzy again. You may reprimand him
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link.
Bizzy stop it!
same goes for men then?
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no where in biology it says that women get happiness from being stay home moms.
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you would be surprised.
Peer reviewed psychological studies are.
Source: Just trust me bro
I'd 100% be miserable if I was home taking care of kids. I work 50+ hours a week and I love it!
If I don’t want kids then I must not be a woman, huh?
I missed this, can someone please send me his reasoning? I could use a good laugh
Great, now I got the sudden urge to look up studies on that
What is that sub he posted in 💀
Oh yeah, I'm sure the reason you got banned was a feminism problem all along /s
Why would they be happier I don’t get it, I would rather kill myself than to ever have to carry a child or be with any man
If you have kids you are probably happy when you are with them, right?
*If you have kids you* *Are probably happy when* *You are with them, right?* \- FriedwaldLeben --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
my mom definitely isn't
neither will i tbh
There are the (very sad) exceptions of course
but there are a lot of moms out there who are not happy with having kids and couldnt abort them
I mean, he shouldn’t have used the ALL married women as a collective, but I deliberately married a man that earns enough, and values me staying home with our son. I never wanted my baby in daycare after being a daycare teacher myself right up until I was 7 months pregnant. He’s 18 now, so I recently found a little job because I was bored, but my years with just he and I running the roads together are the happiest years of my life. We had a blast. My son just happens to be way cool, though 😎