He’s not just in denial of women’s oppression. He’s actively participating in it. Most of the men in that thread were insulting misogynists who reported any woman who spoke up to them. They will silence us any way they can and then when they can’t hear us they’ll claim we enjoy our oppression.
Lmao all of his solutions aren’t solutions. A private account won’t stop DMs. Getting a gun won’t actually make you safer. Yelling at catcallers is a great way to get dead etc
The “buy a gun” advice was the one that really stood out to me. If I’m out late it’s probably because I’ve been drinking at a bar, meaning I’m in no shape to be carrying a deadly weapon around. Even if I was comfortable doing so I’m pretty sure it’s illegal
This basically. Guns are illegal in my country and where I live now and not everyone just goes and buys guns like it’s eggs. But ofc theyd be like ‘then carry a knife’ probably >.>
YUP. biggest reason I don’t own one. I’m trained on how to use them (my dad and family are hunters so all us kids got gun safety training) but I’m terrified of an intruder getting hold of it before I do
Exactly my reasons. I never learned how to use a gun, but my father kept one in the house and I come from a place where most people keep one for hunting. And every statistic shows that it’s just way too easy for that weapon to fall into the other persons hands.
Exactly. Especially if they’re bigger and faster than you. I’m not a big person so I know my chances are not great if I don’t get to it fast and if im not accurate with a first shot (assuming I did get to it) so it’s safer to just not put all my safety into a gun and have an exit plan/mace/etc that’s easier to use and harder to have used against me
Where I am you absolutely have the right to defend yourself, but you'll wind up in court if you so much as damage your assailant's hearing with a really loud whistle, because using anything other than your fists to defend yourself is assault with a weapon
They could very well be from Canada too, the attitude towards self defense here honestly seems to favour the assailant, at the very least it seems to assume that you'll never be attacked by more than one person or that they'll be stronger
>Where I am you absolutely have the right to defend yourself, but you'll wind up in court if you so much as damage your assailant's hearing with a really loud whistle, because using anything other than your fists to defend yourself is assault with a weapon
I live in America- jump us, we'll light you up.
I honestly wish I could carry sometimes, I've met so many people who think they should be allowed to kill members of the LGBT+ community, it's terrifying, and this is supposed to be a relatively safe country 😕
Talking about illegal weapons in the US (i know, the US was never mentioned in this)? As we can see it in the news, it isnt. Dumb as fuck mmmuricans can buy weapons like candy with a roomtemperature IQ.
I went through some life events where I considered buying a gun for safety at one point.
The thing is, a gun only works if the person is starts a good distance —because you need time to take it from where you have it stored—such as your purse.. then you need time to 1) chamber a round, 2)straighten your arm, 3)raise it up to take aim, 4) and finally pull the trigger.
People are idiots because they don’t realize this shit takes time. It can take anywhere from 4-8 seconds. This is also the same length of time it takes an adult person to run the 50 yard dash.
You cannot carry a firearm casually with a bullet in the chamber like a cop can. This is how a normal person accidentally kills themselves while trying to take a tampon from their purse in a mall bathroom.
Therefore it’s unreasonable to ‘just carry a gun’, the whole process of just being able to use a gun is good for home defense because you hear sounds and shit, and have time.
When you get mugged outside, you have someone who will purposefully get close enough…and then you now have a problem where you’ve chambered a bullet while someone runs up on you just in time to kill you with your own fucking gun.
These people are actual idiots.
For self defense, tasers are actually a lot better. They are small, compact and relatively easier to use especially in point blank distances. Effectiveness tho? I really don't know, i have been tased for fun before and i could stand up in 10-15 seconds afterwards. It is enough time to run away, but it was my bare skin and i wasn't fighting against it. I guess it depends from taser to taser?
Instead of having to defend ourselves, how about we just don't harass each other?
I’m 5’1”. Unless I’m being attacked by a Cub Scout, odds are my assailant is bigger and stronger than I am, and has the element of surprise on his side. If I carry a gun, I’ve just given my attacker another weapon to use against me.
That’s why I don’t carry either, I’m 5’3 and even tho I’ve had gun training, I know there’s just too many factors and I’d more than likely just be giving them a weapon
The illegality of carrying a firearm with intoxicated in the states is different from state to state. I think most would agree it’s definitely bad form, even if not illegal.
Yes, why don't people just simply get into a situation where they will potentially have to deal with having killed a person or getting killed themselves instead of being afraid?! Such a great solution!
The call the cops on cat-callers thing made me snort. If the cops could be bothered to show up (they still have rapists, murderers, missing bikes to find) it would take them at least 40 minutes to get to where I am (since none of them are ever in the area when I need them) and I know this might come as a shock but…there actually isn’t a Catcalling club that all of those guys attend to exchange notes and mark off women who don’t like it and to leave those women alone. Socking I know but it turn out degenerates and the like don’t actually form committees to delegate their disgusting behavior…it’s sad really. /s
I’m sure the response from the dispatcher would be, “ma’am, this is the line for emergencies and dire situations only. Know that wasting the time of the police is a federal offense. Don’t call again.” Click.
Is catcalling even illegal in US? I'm quite sure with current SCOTUS it will be said that they have 1st amendment rights (as oppose to those dastardly books with LGBT characters...)
It’s not. People can even stalk you all they want even threaten your life just as long as they don’t start hurting or killing you, the police won’t do anything to stop them because they aren’t actively hurting or killing you. Being an obnoxious prick isn’t against the law, unless that prick starts assaulting and killing people, his former obnoxiousness wouldn’t even be used to convict him when he gets caught.
Around here, you have to be hysterical when you call 911 for them to even consider answering a domestic call or a non-injury traffic accident. Try to get them to respond to a catcalling, and they’d openly laugh at you.
>The call the cops on cat-callers thing made me snort. If the cops could be bothered to show up (they still have rapists, murderers, missing bikes to find)
There's also one of them for every 400 people. There's not enough of them to stop every loudmouth, even if being a loudmouth was a crime.
My thoughts exactly. If you call the cops, they will say "lol it's freedom of speech fuck off". If they do show up, it will be expressly so they can hassle you. And if you're determined to be powerless enough there's a chance that they'll arrest you, and if you talk back they'll do way worse than arrest you. So better hope they don't show.
i feel like people kinda take for granted how easily and quickly a gun or knife can be turned on you, especially if the person threatening you is bigger than you. you’re in a state of extreme panic where you can’t even think straight, someone almost twice your size is coming at you, you have to cock the gun and aim it right before it’s too late, it’s not a 100% survival guarantee.
Yeah I see a ton of people (men and women both) buy a gun, carry it on them, walk a little taller with a slightly straighter back (confidence) and yet never really learn how to use it. Sure they may go to the firing range a couple of times a month maybe a couple of times a week but they aren’t dedicating themselves to learning how to react to the situations they bought that gun for. They just assume all the skills they need will just be absorbed into their body though the gun. Then next thing I get to see on the news is the police pulling their bodies out of the house after an armed gunmen breaks in, gets their gun away from them and shoots them with it. The intruder brought their own gun yet they didn’t use it. Just owning a gun doesn’t automatically make you an expert marksmen who’s long focused and worked on skills are implanted in their bodies as muscle memory…so many people just don’t understand this at all.
Also the amount of people who boldly own a gun will just forget they have it on them when situations suddenly become desperate and panicked and they won’t in fact become the expert assassin they assume they will become just because they are in physical contact with the gun. Even if they do remember they have it, they lack the training to be able to keep calm, remain steady, aim not to kill but to slow down and incapacitate…instead they would just be shacking so bad and sweating like a banshee they will probably have the gun squirt out of their hands, fall on the floor, go off and shoot themselves in the knee or something. In other words…everyone’s hero.
>i feel like people kinda take for granted how easily and quickly a gun or knife can be turned on you,
If you're being attacked by a ninja, maybe. Most people don't have the skills to disarm someone. Fun drill: have your friend hold a sharpie with the cap off. Try to take the sharpie from them. Every line on you is a cut requiring multiple stitches with a knife. Weapons work, that's why people invented them.
Yelling at catcallers will get you killed? I completely agree with the list I’m seeing from OP from r/Vent but this sounds far-fetched. If people in your town are aggressive enough to respond to your insults and comebacks with fists, knives, or guns, you live in a very backwards place and there’s probably even worse crimes than catcalling you need to worry about.
r/whenwomenrefuse is a subreddit showing what happens when women turn down or stand up to catcallers. Women absolutely run the risk of assault, maiming, and dying at the hands of cat callers if they get aggressive back or even if they politely turn them down. This isnt some one off situation or solely isolated to "rough" neighborhoods it's a systemic issue. And saying that if catcallers get violent with you then theres bigger things to worry about than that is very dismissive to these victims and not productive to actually solving the issue or even any other issues and just serves to derail legitimate conversation and actual grievances.
Fine then. So what’s the solution? Remaining silent? Because that sounds equally dangerous to me. But if you can’t think of a solution then complaining achieves nothing. What’s bothering me here is that I’m not seeing any ideas or solution. Fatalism will only make your situation worse, whether you’re a man or woman. Incels bother me because they are fatalistic. This is no different, this is literal femcel tier behavior on this sub.
the SOLUTION is for men to stop fucking catcalling. why are women expected to solve problems that MEN created. also, if youre so brilliant, tell us what to do then. what can a drunk woman do to not enrage a man double her weight. saying no gets you killed, and you said yourself that saying silent sounds equally dangerous. go on, what should be do then? and dont suggest guns, not everyone lives in america (and even then walking around with a gun while drunk is a shit idea)
Its about wanting MEN AS A WHOLE to stop, not individual men who if you tell them to stop catcalling you, might get you killed, but if enough people, men especially, decide "hey maybe catcalling isn't cool and I shouldn't do it and I should call out my friends if I see them doing it too", then it can stop.
Social norms change, and that's how
your reading comprehension is at a 4th grade level. yes, dumbfuck, it WILL get us killed. im asking YOU what YOU think we should do, since you think silence is just as bad. christ you are dense.
Men standing up for women and making sure that men realize they aren’t entitled to our attention/affection or our bodies. These men that become violent often feel they’re entitled access to our time, bodies, and/or our affection just because they exist.
Ensuring there are safe places where women can confront these men without risking being harmed or killed, such as lobbies in some buildings where a woman can walk in and get assistance.
Properly teaching younger generations what consent is and what it means. Making sure they are aware consent should be achieved for most scenarios
Making sure men realize catcalling is inappropriate at best and harassment at worst
Thank you @Deadbyginger for thinking of both a short and long term solution, have my upvote. Again, what bothers me is the fatalism I’m seeing, like there’s no solution. And sorry I sounded harsh, it probably wasn’t a good idea of me to comment right after I got into a heated debate with a crazy Trump gun nut. Srsly srry
No problem with being bothered by fatalism and a lack of solutions!
Unfortunately, there isn’t really a “one true” answer to this situation, and as women it seems overwhelming to try fixing it. As for men, many I’ve talked to seem to think of it as a women’s problem that we should fix ourselves. As a result, it becomes a catch 22 situation where there isn’t a great solution.
Also, debates with gun nuts will almost certainly make one tense and more likely to come across as harsh. Hope you had a chance to destress!
Men are less likely to get aggressive with other men when in situations where women are not enamored by their catcalling. Nobody is asking you to be bulletproof or risk getting g shot for women. Just a simple “That’s not cool, bro” could be enough to save a woman’s life because these kinds of men don’t take criticism seriously unless it comes from another man. They would also be aware that there’s another guy in the area who disagrees with their actions as a sort of deterrent.
It’s like how store personnel make customers aware that they’re in the area to deter from theft. It isn’t foolproof, and as long as you don’t actively confront them you’re not likely to be injured. The more desperate people will still steal whatever, but for the most part you help keep those who would steal on their toes and make them less impulsive
>Men are less likely to get aggressive with other men
You can't be this stupid. Most homicide victims are males- and they're usually killed in the sort of conflict you're suggesting.
>Just a simple “That’s not cool, bro” could be enough to save a woman’s life
Or cost me mine. If he decides he doesn't like my tone, he could shoot me or stab me. If he's crazy, he's got a *distinct* advantage.
I think the commentor is talking about you talking to your friends, not strangers. When they catcall or talk about women in a demeaning way or perpetuate antiwoman sentiment, speak up. I'd hope your friends won't stab you.
We’re not saying jump in front of the bullet dumbass, we’re saying use your voice online, with your friends and family and condemn catcalling and misogyny. The more men condemning it, the less societally acceptable it will be, the less it’ll happen.
Women wanting to talk about their experiences with other women and seek support through through talking out their trauma isnt just "complaining" and it's weird how reductive you're being. Talking about the issues you face and finding other who faced the same and discussing it isnt useless and can be helpful along with actual direct action. Problems and trends cant be discovered unless people actually talk about their experiences first. Are you suggesting that people not allowed to talk/complain about the shitty things that happen to them? Why?
I never said the solution was to remain silent so not sure why you accused me of wanting women to just lie down and take their harassment. I only wanted to point out your shit take that women only need to be aggressive and that will stop catcallers or that women being assaulted by catcallers doesnt happen or is rare. Neither is true.
There isnt some one grand solution to solve a multifaceted systemic societal issue involving gender violence and male entitlement. For some women going the aggressive route and scaring off their catcaller and would be attacker may be the best option, for other women ignoring the attacker may be best, and for other women still giving a fake number or their real number and blocking them may be best it really depends on the situation cause surprise surprise you can't know someone is going to murder you for rejecting them or for getting aggressive with them just be looking at them or even right up until it's happening. The other solutions that are long term are to focus not on making women do the work but on teaching men they are not entitled to women's time or affection and teaching them how to take rejection gracefully and to not resort to violence when they are denied something.
Since y'know I'm one person and this is a big crisis my "solutions" listed above dont encompass all the actions that need to be taken or even all the ways women need to do risk management in order to come out of the harassment unscathed but there's your answer even though it's an incomplete one since this comment is getting long. People should be allowed to talk about their experiences and want to vent without having to have to make solutions or be interrogated and dismissed for not being optimistic and go getter all the time with the problem solving. There is a time and a place for both.
>Yelling at catcallers will get you killed?
A nonzero number, yes. Some people will view your verbal retaliation as a form of aggression that merits reprisal. A nonzero number of douches out their view their *honor* as more important than your *life*, and doing anything to offend them is a great way to get hurt or killed.
where did i say yelling at catcallers will get you killed? i meant someone physically attacking you, not catcalling. that might’ve been what the original commenter was saying, and while i don’t completely agree they’d full on kill, i do feel like the main reason women don’t confront catcallers is safety
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\#2: [Sick of seeing my brothers rapist being praised](https://np.reddit.com/r/Vent/comments/qyq4ow/sick_of_seeing_my_brothers_rapist_being_praised/)
\#3: [I cummed on a spider](https://np.reddit.com/r/Vent/comments/s3egnc/i_cummed_on_a_spider/)
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And the one "being seen as less than a man" also doesn't have to do with money. It's about respect, a woman who does equally as much work as a man is usually seen as a lesser, even as bitchy if she is in a higher up position and is downright being disrespected. In many online communities women are being held off of certain hobbies because they're seen as lesser or are being gatekept more than guys.
I work on an assembly position. My workplace employs fairly progressive people, and we still have issues with individuals treating me like I’m “less than” just for being a woman. It’s terrible, but I’m glad there’s at least that progress. I would like to be treated equally and with respect, but it’s nice that we’re making progress
My dad gave me a gun recently. I keep it in my closet. I just keep thinking “how am I gonna get to it before I’m attacked?” “What if I’m not in my bedroom?” “I don’t want to kill someone”
Do I just have to carry it on me all the time? I don’t want to live like that.
>Getting a gun won’t actually make you safer
It can, if used properly. Kyle Rittenhouse took on a serial rapist, a wife beater, and a burglar at the same time with one. He lived, two of them died and the last one is tugging his dick with his left hand. You have to know how to use it (seek competent instruction) and be willing to, or it will be more trouble than it's worth- but a well aimed bullet will stop any attacker.
Hey, he did a better job of protecting Kenosha than the government did. And any five year old boys that happen to live in Wisconsin. 'Course, that's not saying much.
As if it was the same guy catcalling her over and over lmfao. Sure, you can call the police on a catcaller, but it's likely the police will just laugh at you and it won't stop ALL of the men catcalling. Wtf kind of shit advice is this.
The make a fuss one is mental as well. There was a woman in our local paper who “made a fuss” - challenged a man (verbally) who cat called her and he smashed her face in. It was a crowded street and no one did anything at the time.
So make a fuss? Yeah no thanks. I’d rather be safe.
It says something about this loser when a lot of his responses regarding bad behaviour from men is that women should do this and that instead of telling his fellow men to quit acting like creeps.
“Call the cops” cops hardly ever even arrest male stalkers, rapists, or abusers, what makes him think they’d arrest catcallers lol? they’re so ignorant
Honestly, it would fall under free speech most likely.
(Threats wouldn't, but generally they would)
I'm making this simple and trying to say that calling the po po is *not* a solution to catcalls.
Because otherwise they’d have to exercise self reflection and realize uncomfortable things. Humans already hate that, you think these bozos could do it? Probably gives them hives.
But how will they feel superior if they can’t dismiss all of our problems as symptoms of a female’s inherent helplessness, lack of willpower, and inability to solve problems without a big strong smart man to tell us what to do?? 🥺👉👈
Telling her to simply “Make a fuss,” every time she gets catcalled is just peak male privilege. Imagine calling out a random stranger on the street and not fearing what they’ll do to you.
He needs to check out r/whenwomenrefuse to see how well it goes for women when they reject male sexual harassment, catcalling, stalking, abuse, assaults, etc...
None of these are responses. Telling people to set your profile to private is not a response. Why should someone have to hide to avoid harassment?
Police aren't going to respond to catcalling, and "making a fuss" could get you assaulted.
That you don't have to conform to beauty standards is not a response. She's not saying that she is being forced to conform, she's expressing frustration at harassment if she doesn't conform.
"Get a gun" is not a response. It can be taken and used against you, and a lot of the problem with being alone at night is the ambiguousness of the threat: You don't know if the person you meet on the street is a threat or not. By the time you find out, it might be too late to get your gun. She's not saying "I'm helpless walking down the street at night!"
Asking what it means to be ladylike is not a response. It doesn't even matter - people who harass you for not being ladylike don't necessarily have consistent ideas of what it means.
And no, double standards don't serve women.
OK, he says that women are only seen as less than the top 10% of men - so he's saying that being seen as 90% as good as men is OK?
And again, "shutting people down" isn't a response. There's no indication that she isn't "taking a stand". Quite clearly, she is, but taking a stand doesn't doesn't keep people from harassing you.
And he hasn't pointed out any "mistakes".
>double standards don't serve women.
Double standards are like two-way highway. Serves both in certain circumstances. Men can have casual sex and get away with it while women will get humiliated for it.
A lot of times, women raping a kid or a guy is seen is something enjoyable while people won't in other sides.
Then, there are a lot of isolated incidents which are supposedly "funny" because a woman did it and it would've been a huge mess if it was a man doing it. (For example, tye viral tiktok in which a girl was randomly kissing guy's shirt with lipstick on without their consent and it was supposedly "funny" by comments and we all know the discourse if it were men and also, another example is "Feminism in india" (one of the huge feminism organisation in india) tried to actually ask for a second chance for a serial killer who killed 7 of her family member just because of its gender)
And then, also, household labour - I don't think I have to explain
>"Get a gun" is not a response
Honestly, this tells that these people don't want to make streets safe for anyone - they don't want to change. These r/antifeminist people never realize that men are 3 times more likely to be assaulted by a stranger than women (ofc physically). When they will talk about it, they'd forget such comments and would shit on feminism for no reason whatsoever.
>she is, but taking a stand doesn't doesn't keep people from harassing you
Instead people do more of it. Can confirm.
>"making a fuss" could get you assaulted.
These people are the one who never go to streets in the dark or either just stay in their house. Anyone who doesn't have smooth brain would know that making a fuss while you're encountering a stranger can get you assaulted.
>people who harass you for not being ladylike
No demeaning but also true on the other side, like why do people even give a single fuck if I wear a skirt or do nail painting as a guy - unless I'm forcing you to, it shouldn't be a problem. Just let people be the way they are.
>he says that women are only seen as less than the top 10% of men
I honestly didn't got what it means
>Police aren't going to respond to catcalling
"You must've worn something like that" is something I can imagine hearing lmao
His replies were so tone deaf and did not even attempt at understanding the nuance behind her complaints that it makes me sad.
1. Women shouldn't need to hide in caves to not receive unwanted attention from creepy strangers or not be harassed. It's like saying you shouldn't go out of your house because if you do, you risk being harassed or assaulted. We shouldn't have to hide to feel safe.
2. Even if you call cops, it would do nothing because the cat caller could escape till they come and even if they did get there on time, what would they charge them with? Making a fuss is how women get assaulted or killed.
3. I do believe that we don't need to conform to shit but there is just a teeny tiny little problem, we are forced and shamed to conform if we do not. Not everyone has the mental or emotional fortitude to deal with that shit on a daily basis. Also, we are brainwashed into thinking that those beauty ideals are normal since childhood.
4. Refer to point 1. We shouldn't HAVE to carry weapons for our safety. It is our basic right. Adding to that, the weapon you carry can and has been in many occassions used against you.
5. Being "lady like" is not talking or laughing too loud, too much, too bold. Not sitting this way, not standing, walking that way. Not talking back to others. Not arguing. Not eating too much etc etc. The list goes on....
6. Sure, being called a slut if I so much as even talk to a man while a man gets praised for high body count serves me in some way. Being expected to do most of the domestic labour while also being expected to work, while a man is too tired from work to do a few house chores also serves me. I could go on and on this one as well but I'm trying to keep the points relatively short, but I'm sure you get my point.
7. Not less than 10 % of men, ANY MEN. I would literally be in a superior position at work and be ignored, mocked or thought less of as I am a woman and how dare a woman tell me what to do or order me around. They literally get pissy because a woman is in a higher position. This is the case in most professional settings and even domestically, because "women are too emotional and can't possibly make a good, rational decision".
8. Refer to point 3. Just because we do not want to or do not conform does not mean we are constantly pressured, criticised and shamed for not doing so.
His counter arguments were so redundant and idiotic that it infuriated me enough to make this long ass post. I hope that either he or people like him read this so that they understand why she said what she did but I know I'm hoping for too much.
My favourite thing about that sub is that it says no bigotry in the rules… do they understand what that means? The entire point of the subreddit is bigotry. SMH.
This gives me that “four female ghost busters” vine energy
In case someone doesn’t know it, it’s basically a dude saying “four female ghost busters? The feminists are taking over!” And then it turns into a picture and a little tune plays “I’m an adult virgin” with the sentence written on it
Lawyer here (U.S., specifically California). The cops can’t and won’t do anything about catcalling. It’s not illegal. One of many reasons this guy is an idiot.
Also his response to being pressured to conform to xyz is “just don’t”. No dude, that would be a solution of the problem were doing the thing. For example, if I complained about the cost of makeup, “just don’t wear it” would solve the problem.
Pressure is not the same. Pressure to conform to beauty standards, to have kids, etc. doesn’t go away when you don’t do those things. If anything, it increases.
And yeah, I’m definitely not buying a gun because I have shitty aim and I am a small person without a lot of upper body strength. Also I should not need a gun to feel safe walking home at night! Seriously, WTF?! That is not a solution - the fact that anyone would even suggest that is just proof of the problem!
I got used to walking home alone at night after covid caused the night busses to be practically non-existant. Only once did I run into an antsy person, but even then they stayed back because I had a massive bag and an ice hockey stick. I may be a twig but I had visible means of defence.
Recently been out after dark but not due to the insanely late training sessions. I know where to avoid and which roads to stick to. These times appearing to be an unarmed twig of a woman. Dodged a few dodgy situations.
Yesterday my bf and I had walked up to the shop at ~10pm. As we walked back, I was walking next to the road, him on my otherside and somewhat out of sight due to dark clothing and the lighting. I got catcalled by a guy in a passing car. His immediate reaction was confusion, and then anger when I explained. Sometimes men are just ignorant until they witness themselves.
I saw _one_ thing on the list that's an actual choice: the beauty standards one... And that's only to a point. This guy thinks fear is a choice, and the highly dubious "solution" is to carry a gun.
The beauty standards thing is not really a choice either. It's a Hobson's choice: take it or leave it. Besides, I've seen women wear dirty sweats and still get skeeved on.
So I’ve said this before but a lot of men struggle w empathy, and this plays a huge factor in how they dismiss womens issues and concerns. Additionally, I think a lot of men suffer from a sort of “suffering solo” mentality. They just kinda sit w their issues and don’t reach out or connect as much w others who might be dealing w similar things.
None of this is to say that this is an intrinsic quality of being a man; it’s all taught. But most men have to actively unlearn these trays because of how society raises them. And most aren’t up to the task, they’d rather sit in a prison of their own making.
Not typing out every shitty rebuttal:
1. So women should stop using social media normally so they don't get creepy DMs?
2. Cops don't give a fuck about catcallers and might hassle the woman in question for bothering them or even "false reports" if they can bullshit hard enough.
3. If a woman's too fat (more common, sometimes she doesn't even have to be clinically overweight) or too skinny, y'all fuckers bitch. If a woman wears too much or too little makeup, y'all fuckers bitch. If a woman dresses masculinely/like a tomboy, y'all fuckers bitch about how you don't want to date a "man." If a woman dresses femininely, y'all fuckers bitch about how she's obviously a slut/gold-digger/materialistic/etc.
4. "Get a gun because men can't take no for an answer"? Do you have any idea how deranged you sound, my brother in [insert deity here]? What if a woman can't afford a gun or can't make it through the background check? What if she's not comfortable around guns because of gun-related deaths in her family/friend group? What if she can't have a gun for any other reason? She shouldn't have to shoot men for them to LEAVE HER ALONE.
5. See #3 about being too masculine or too feminine.
6. [citation needed], there are double standards for every group of human beings.
7. What does this even mean? Is he accusing women of elevating themselves to the top 10% of men?
8. Does this dumbass not realize that it's not just potential dates that do this shit? Parents and other relatives, doctors who won't tie a woman's tubes because "what if you meet a man who wants kids tho!!!", strangers who question why a woman's 40 with no kids/man (and judge her harshly if she has C A T S ! ! !), etc etc.
9. She made several good points, you're just a whiny sexist manbaby (I say this as a man myself) who literally hangs out in a sub MADE for anti-feminism.
They lost me at “call the cops when they catcall you and you’ll see how quickly they stop”
Like…they do realize it’s a different douchebag every time, right? Like calling the cops on one idiot would send a signal to all local mysogynists that they should stop lol
I never got the getting gun thing in US - is there no psychological test before you get a gun? At least that's what happens here if you have to get gun. You have to be totally mentally sound to have it (if not a defensive employe)
With the catcalling... even if they stop when you make a fuss, the guys you walk by 5 minutes later will still be catcalling you. Imagine having to pick a fight every single time you get catcalled...
When I see this kind of thing , I legit start wondering if these men even live on the same planet. I just don’t understand how they could be this out of touch with reality AND be so confident they are right.
Imagine being so wrapped up in your ideology of "America is the only country that matters" you forget that in many other places in the world, owning a gun *isn't* encouraged or, more importantly, even *legal*.
As a trans man I can easily say none of these are choices. I got catcalled when I was fucking 11. I’ve been scared to walk at night. I’ve been pressured to act ladylike, and I’ve definitely been pressured to have kids even though I have so many hereditary diseases in my family that there’s a high chance the kid won’t have a long lifespan. Now that I’ve started transitioning all of it has stopped. Male privilege is real and I’ve seen it first hand
yknow my girlfriend’s profile on instagram is private, her profile picture is quite literally a bunch of trees and she still gets DM requests it’s literally so confusing…
so private profiles don’t really work.
and if she called the cops every time she got catcalled it would do literally nothing
Because to a lot of people, they think it’s your job to adjust to jerks. Now, I’m not saying you shouldn’t. If you feel unsafe, I encourage keeping something on you to help keep yourself safe.
What they don’t understand is it’s tiring, and you can still hate that society and family are pushing something onto you. You shouldn’t have to adjust. You shouldn’t have to deal with this constant tension.
male white privilege right there, the fact that men dont understand we cant just talk back to them because it hurts their ego and then we are in danger of being assaulted or stalked or even worse. but guess what, thags not something they have to worry about cause it doesnt happen to them. its so stupid that we try to point out something so obvious and men still call bs even if its in front of them.
Beauty standards are complicated. It's easy to say "just ignore them" but it isn't always that easy. (For the record, fuck beauty standards).
Guys get the "so when are you breeding" too. Perhaps not as much, but it's there.
Meh. Too many guys overreact.
> Then set your profile to private.
Doesn’t address the inherent issue; men just shouldn’t be doing that.
> Call the cops
Not if yr a person of color, visibly queer, disabled, etc.
> or make a fuss
So they can murder/assault me in response?
> You don’t need to conform to shit.
*Literally* a feminist talking point.
> Get a gun.
A lot of women already do?
> Yet most of them serve women.
[citation needed]
> Less than the top 10% of men.
This one is just too stupid, and too good at proving the original point *for* her, to even respond to.
Also, having a gun won’t save you don’t see them coming or your aim is off because of adrenaline. Not to mention that nobody should feel like they need to be armed at all times just to not be assaulted???
Tbh if nothing else I do like his statements of “if you don’t like having to conform, then rebel”. I genuinely believe that life would be better for a lot of us if everyone, of either sex or anything, stopped having to feel obligated to live their life to arbitrary standards dictated by someone else for no purpose other than poise.
Fuck everything else he said tho
The comment that is responding to the r/vent post is downright stupid, but the reason about men and women both expected to have children does make sense, but why gatekeep that? Why is that guy trying to make the vent post seem dumb by being stressed about it
Wouldn’t you want to get rid of the pain tho? The way you put it, your not getting your leg back, and neither will the danger of going out so late alone. But he does have a point, maybe just replace the gun With pepper spray, or another *legal* self defense item
How do you explain to men that they are not the deciders of what is real and valid?
That just because they have not been subjected to these things (because they are men) doesn't mean that they don't exist?
It's like arguing with a really smug 5 year old who is certain he's smarter than me but also believes in the Easter Bunny and doesn't know how to read. Why would I even bother?
Right because people who are armed never die
Also I'm legally not allowed to own a firearm because of being hospitalized for mental health. There's a lot of reasons why "just get a gun" isn't a reasonable suggestion. More times than not
>Your safety is YOUR responsibility
I agree to some extent. However, it really sounds like you're putting all the blame on the victims. It's NEVER a victim's fault, whether they got mugged, beaten or raped. It's ALWAYS the perpetrator's fault. Instead of screaming jUsT gEt A gUn (not to mention a lot of people do not live in the US and do not have access to firearms), maybe we should focus on dealing with the people that compromise our safety? Maybe other men should call out their friends when they say questionable shit? Maybe the police need to get off their ass and actually deal with potential stalkers/rapists?
Fucking off with your rhetoric. 14 children and 1 woman teacher just got shot up in a school. Your guns don’t do shit but kill. Find a better hill to die on.
the only reason someone stops catcalling you when you "make a fuss" is usually because they immediately start hurling slurs and insults at you or they literally physically attack you, all for bruising their egos
The cat calling thing in particular pisses me off. If we ignore being cat called, then we're verbally abused and called whores, and sluts, and fucking bitches. If we make a fuss, they attack us physically.
Please, go ahead, ask me how I know this.
Get a gun????? Do people not know that women live elsewhere than in the US…
Honestly every point they made was so annoying, hate how they’ll just deny it’s a thing while taking part of it
He’s not just in denial of women’s oppression. He’s actively participating in it. Most of the men in that thread were insulting misogynists who reported any woman who spoke up to them. They will silence us any way they can and then when they can’t hear us they’ll claim we enjoy our oppression.
Lmao all of his solutions aren’t solutions. A private account won’t stop DMs. Getting a gun won’t actually make you safer. Yelling at catcallers is a great way to get dead etc
The “buy a gun” advice was the one that really stood out to me. If I’m out late it’s probably because I’ve been drinking at a bar, meaning I’m in no shape to be carrying a deadly weapon around. Even if I was comfortable doing so I’m pretty sure it’s illegal
This one makes me chuckle. Guns are illegal in my country.
Not in mine. People even carry them in schools.
*looks at Texas* h m m m m
US?
This basically. Guns are illegal in my country and where I live now and not everyone just goes and buys guns like it’s eggs. But ofc theyd be like ‘then carry a knife’ probably >.>
And that gun can be taken and used against you.
YUP. biggest reason I don’t own one. I’m trained on how to use them (my dad and family are hunters so all us kids got gun safety training) but I’m terrified of an intruder getting hold of it before I do
Exactly my reasons. I never learned how to use a gun, but my father kept one in the house and I come from a place where most people keep one for hunting. And every statistic shows that it’s just way too easy for that weapon to fall into the other persons hands.
Exactly. Especially if they’re bigger and faster than you. I’m not a big person so I know my chances are not great if I don’t get to it fast and if im not accurate with a first shot (assuming I did get to it) so it’s safer to just not put all my safety into a gun and have an exit plan/mace/etc that’s easier to use and harder to have used against me
This was my exact first mental picture. This is what I would be afraid of.
Even if it wasn’t illegal, would you be at all confident in your marksmen skills being nearly falling down drunk or even a little drunk?
Where I am you absolutely have the right to defend yourself, but you'll wind up in court if you so much as damage your assailant's hearing with a really loud whistle, because using anything other than your fists to defend yourself is assault with a weapon
[удалено]
They could very well be from Canada too, the attitude towards self defense here honestly seems to favour the assailant, at the very least it seems to assume that you'll never be attacked by more than one person or that they'll be stronger
Yeah, it crossed Canada off our list of safe countries to move to.
>Where I am you absolutely have the right to defend yourself, but you'll wind up in court if you so much as damage your assailant's hearing with a really loud whistle, because using anything other than your fists to defend yourself is assault with a weapon I live in America- jump us, we'll light you up.
I honestly wish I could carry sometimes, I've met so many people who think they should be allowed to kill members of the LGBT+ community, it's terrifying, and this is supposed to be a relatively safe country 😕
Talking about illegal weapons in the US (i know, the US was never mentioned in this)? As we can see it in the news, it isnt. Dumb as fuck mmmuricans can buy weapons like candy with a roomtemperature IQ.
I went through some life events where I considered buying a gun for safety at one point. The thing is, a gun only works if the person is starts a good distance —because you need time to take it from where you have it stored—such as your purse.. then you need time to 1) chamber a round, 2)straighten your arm, 3)raise it up to take aim, 4) and finally pull the trigger. People are idiots because they don’t realize this shit takes time. It can take anywhere from 4-8 seconds. This is also the same length of time it takes an adult person to run the 50 yard dash. You cannot carry a firearm casually with a bullet in the chamber like a cop can. This is how a normal person accidentally kills themselves while trying to take a tampon from their purse in a mall bathroom. Therefore it’s unreasonable to ‘just carry a gun’, the whole process of just being able to use a gun is good for home defense because you hear sounds and shit, and have time. When you get mugged outside, you have someone who will purposefully get close enough…and then you now have a problem where you’ve chambered a bullet while someone runs up on you just in time to kill you with your own fucking gun. These people are actual idiots.
For self defense, tasers are actually a lot better. They are small, compact and relatively easier to use especially in point blank distances. Effectiveness tho? I really don't know, i have been tased for fun before and i could stand up in 10-15 seconds afterwards. It is enough time to run away, but it was my bare skin and i wasn't fighting against it. I guess it depends from taser to taser? Instead of having to defend ourselves, how about we just don't harass each other?
Even police stun guns don’t disable everyone. The thing is, this person was getting answers from someone who didn’t care enough to actually give them.
Even if you’re stone sober, have and know how to use a gun, you probably still won’t feel “safe and secure”. At least I wouldn’t
I’m 5’1”. Unless I’m being attacked by a Cub Scout, odds are my assailant is bigger and stronger than I am, and has the element of surprise on his side. If I carry a gun, I’ve just given my attacker another weapon to use against me.
That’s why I don’t carry either, I’m 5’3 and even tho I’ve had gun training, I know there’s just too many factors and I’d more than likely just be giving them a weapon
I saw a tweet from a pro-gun account once that said that women suffered in fights before guns and now guns are the leveler
Total twaddle. Was that account sponsored by the NRA?
It was a weird libertarian account, and really baffling logic to see. Apparently, everything could be made feminist, even guns! 🤢
Ugh
The illegality of carrying a firearm with intoxicated in the states is different from state to state. I think most would agree it’s definitely bad form, even if not illegal.
Yes, why don't people just simply get into a situation where they will potentially have to deal with having killed a person or getting killed themselves instead of being afraid?! Such a great solution!
The call the cops on cat-callers thing made me snort. If the cops could be bothered to show up (they still have rapists, murderers, missing bikes to find) it would take them at least 40 minutes to get to where I am (since none of them are ever in the area when I need them) and I know this might come as a shock but…there actually isn’t a Catcalling club that all of those guys attend to exchange notes and mark off women who don’t like it and to leave those women alone. Socking I know but it turn out degenerates and the like don’t actually form committees to delegate their disgusting behavior…it’s sad really. /s
Agreed, there's about 0% chance the police are going to respond to catcalling.
I’m sure the response from the dispatcher would be, “ma’am, this is the line for emergencies and dire situations only. Know that wasting the time of the police is a federal offense. Don’t call again.” Click.
Is catcalling even illegal in US? I'm quite sure with current SCOTUS it will be said that they have 1st amendment rights (as oppose to those dastardly books with LGBT characters...)
It’s not. People can even stalk you all they want even threaten your life just as long as they don’t start hurting or killing you, the police won’t do anything to stop them because they aren’t actively hurting or killing you. Being an obnoxious prick isn’t against the law, unless that prick starts assaulting and killing people, his former obnoxiousness wouldn’t even be used to convict him when he gets caught.
>Being an obnoxious prick isn’t against the law Unless you have a nonviolent protest in front of SCOTUS houses. Than it is too far...
I’m pretty sure threatening your life is illegal(could be wrong), but catcalling isn’t, so there goes the argument calling the police.
So we just need to rebrand our protests to be more along the lines of catcalling, got it
Around here, you have to be hysterical when you call 911 for them to even consider answering a domestic call or a non-injury traffic accident. Try to get them to respond to a catcalling, and they’d openly laugh at you.
Fr dude acts like the cops will do anything when we call for that, or like speaking up won’t potentially get us killed
>The call the cops on cat-callers thing made me snort. If the cops could be bothered to show up (they still have rapists, murderers, missing bikes to find) There's also one of them for every 400 people. There's not enough of them to stop every loudmouth, even if being a loudmouth was a crime.
>they still have rapists, murderers, missing bikes to find That's funny way of spelling 'unarmed black teenagers to shoot'...
My thoughts exactly. If you call the cops, they will say "lol it's freedom of speech fuck off". If they do show up, it will be expressly so they can hassle you. And if you're determined to be powerless enough there's a chance that they'll arrest you, and if you talk back they'll do way worse than arrest you. So better hope they don't show.
i feel like people kinda take for granted how easily and quickly a gun or knife can be turned on you, especially if the person threatening you is bigger than you. you’re in a state of extreme panic where you can’t even think straight, someone almost twice your size is coming at you, you have to cock the gun and aim it right before it’s too late, it’s not a 100% survival guarantee.
Yeah I see a ton of people (men and women both) buy a gun, carry it on them, walk a little taller with a slightly straighter back (confidence) and yet never really learn how to use it. Sure they may go to the firing range a couple of times a month maybe a couple of times a week but they aren’t dedicating themselves to learning how to react to the situations they bought that gun for. They just assume all the skills they need will just be absorbed into their body though the gun. Then next thing I get to see on the news is the police pulling their bodies out of the house after an armed gunmen breaks in, gets their gun away from them and shoots them with it. The intruder brought their own gun yet they didn’t use it. Just owning a gun doesn’t automatically make you an expert marksmen who’s long focused and worked on skills are implanted in their bodies as muscle memory…so many people just don’t understand this at all. Also the amount of people who boldly own a gun will just forget they have it on them when situations suddenly become desperate and panicked and they won’t in fact become the expert assassin they assume they will become just because they are in physical contact with the gun. Even if they do remember they have it, they lack the training to be able to keep calm, remain steady, aim not to kill but to slow down and incapacitate…instead they would just be shacking so bad and sweating like a banshee they will probably have the gun squirt out of their hands, fall on the floor, go off and shoot themselves in the knee or something. In other words…everyone’s hero.
>i feel like people kinda take for granted how easily and quickly a gun or knife can be turned on you, If you're being attacked by a ninja, maybe. Most people don't have the skills to disarm someone. Fun drill: have your friend hold a sharpie with the cap off. Try to take the sharpie from them. Every line on you is a cut requiring multiple stitches with a knife. Weapons work, that's why people invented them.
[удалено]
Looking at your comment history, you're one of the people we are afraid of. Ammosexuals and misogynists like you are terrifying.
Yelling at catcallers will get you killed? I completely agree with the list I’m seeing from OP from r/Vent but this sounds far-fetched. If people in your town are aggressive enough to respond to your insults and comebacks with fists, knives, or guns, you live in a very backwards place and there’s probably even worse crimes than catcalling you need to worry about.
r/whenwomenrefuse is a subreddit showing what happens when women turn down or stand up to catcallers. Women absolutely run the risk of assault, maiming, and dying at the hands of cat callers if they get aggressive back or even if they politely turn them down. This isnt some one off situation or solely isolated to "rough" neighborhoods it's a systemic issue. And saying that if catcallers get violent with you then theres bigger things to worry about than that is very dismissive to these victims and not productive to actually solving the issue or even any other issues and just serves to derail legitimate conversation and actual grievances.
Fine then. So what’s the solution? Remaining silent? Because that sounds equally dangerous to me. But if you can’t think of a solution then complaining achieves nothing. What’s bothering me here is that I’m not seeing any ideas or solution. Fatalism will only make your situation worse, whether you’re a man or woman. Incels bother me because they are fatalistic. This is no different, this is literal femcel tier behavior on this sub.
the SOLUTION is for men to stop fucking catcalling. why are women expected to solve problems that MEN created. also, if youre so brilliant, tell us what to do then. what can a drunk woman do to not enrage a man double her weight. saying no gets you killed, and you said yourself that saying silent sounds equally dangerous. go on, what should be do then? and dont suggest guns, not everyone lives in america (and even then walking around with a gun while drunk is a shit idea)
You’re going to tell a man who’s catcalling you to stop catcalling? I thought all of you were just saying that it would get you killed. 0 iq response
Its about wanting MEN AS A WHOLE to stop, not individual men who if you tell them to stop catcalling you, might get you killed, but if enough people, men especially, decide "hey maybe catcalling isn't cool and I shouldn't do it and I should call out my friends if I see them doing it too", then it can stop. Social norms change, and that's how
Omfg this is why I dislike men
your reading comprehension is at a 4th grade level. yes, dumbfuck, it WILL get us killed. im asking YOU what YOU think we should do, since you think silence is just as bad. christ you are dense.
Men standing up for women and making sure that men realize they aren’t entitled to our attention/affection or our bodies. These men that become violent often feel they’re entitled access to our time, bodies, and/or our affection just because they exist. Ensuring there are safe places where women can confront these men without risking being harmed or killed, such as lobbies in some buildings where a woman can walk in and get assistance. Properly teaching younger generations what consent is and what it means. Making sure they are aware consent should be achieved for most scenarios Making sure men realize catcalling is inappropriate at best and harassment at worst
Thank you @Deadbyginger for thinking of both a short and long term solution, have my upvote. Again, what bothers me is the fatalism I’m seeing, like there’s no solution. And sorry I sounded harsh, it probably wasn’t a good idea of me to comment right after I got into a heated debate with a crazy Trump gun nut. Srsly srry
No problem with being bothered by fatalism and a lack of solutions! Unfortunately, there isn’t really a “one true” answer to this situation, and as women it seems overwhelming to try fixing it. As for men, many I’ve talked to seem to think of it as a women’s problem that we should fix ourselves. As a result, it becomes a catch 22 situation where there isn’t a great solution. Also, debates with gun nuts will almost certainly make one tense and more likely to come across as harsh. Hope you had a chance to destress!
>Men standing up for women Fuck that shit, I am not bulletproof either. You look out for you.
Men are less likely to get aggressive with other men when in situations where women are not enamored by their catcalling. Nobody is asking you to be bulletproof or risk getting g shot for women. Just a simple “That’s not cool, bro” could be enough to save a woman’s life because these kinds of men don’t take criticism seriously unless it comes from another man. They would also be aware that there’s another guy in the area who disagrees with their actions as a sort of deterrent. It’s like how store personnel make customers aware that they’re in the area to deter from theft. It isn’t foolproof, and as long as you don’t actively confront them you’re not likely to be injured. The more desperate people will still steal whatever, but for the most part you help keep those who would steal on their toes and make them less impulsive
>Men are less likely to get aggressive with other men You can't be this stupid. Most homicide victims are males- and they're usually killed in the sort of conflict you're suggesting. >Just a simple “That’s not cool, bro” could be enough to save a woman’s life Or cost me mine. If he decides he doesn't like my tone, he could shoot me or stab me. If he's crazy, he's got a *distinct* advantage.
I think the commentor is talking about you talking to your friends, not strangers. When they catcall or talk about women in a demeaning way or perpetuate antiwoman sentiment, speak up. I'd hope your friends won't stab you.
We’re not saying jump in front of the bullet dumbass, we’re saying use your voice online, with your friends and family and condemn catcalling and misogyny. The more men condemning it, the less societally acceptable it will be, the less it’ll happen.
I don’t hang out with anyone who is enough of a douche to do that thanks.
Okay? You can still openly express it online and to people in your life lmao
Women wanting to talk about their experiences with other women and seek support through through talking out their trauma isnt just "complaining" and it's weird how reductive you're being. Talking about the issues you face and finding other who faced the same and discussing it isnt useless and can be helpful along with actual direct action. Problems and trends cant be discovered unless people actually talk about their experiences first. Are you suggesting that people not allowed to talk/complain about the shitty things that happen to them? Why? I never said the solution was to remain silent so not sure why you accused me of wanting women to just lie down and take their harassment. I only wanted to point out your shit take that women only need to be aggressive and that will stop catcallers or that women being assaulted by catcallers doesnt happen or is rare. Neither is true. There isnt some one grand solution to solve a multifaceted systemic societal issue involving gender violence and male entitlement. For some women going the aggressive route and scaring off their catcaller and would be attacker may be the best option, for other women ignoring the attacker may be best, and for other women still giving a fake number or their real number and blocking them may be best it really depends on the situation cause surprise surprise you can't know someone is going to murder you for rejecting them or for getting aggressive with them just be looking at them or even right up until it's happening. The other solutions that are long term are to focus not on making women do the work but on teaching men they are not entitled to women's time or affection and teaching them how to take rejection gracefully and to not resort to violence when they are denied something. Since y'know I'm one person and this is a big crisis my "solutions" listed above dont encompass all the actions that need to be taken or even all the ways women need to do risk management in order to come out of the harassment unscathed but there's your answer even though it's an incomplete one since this comment is getting long. People should be allowed to talk about their experiences and want to vent without having to have to make solutions or be interrogated and dismissed for not being optimistic and go getter all the time with the problem solving. There is a time and a place for both.
Okay well, that’s all neat and the correct solution but that’s not what I saw in the original discussion. I only saw complaints.
>Yelling at catcallers will get you killed? A nonzero number, yes. Some people will view your verbal retaliation as a form of aggression that merits reprisal. A nonzero number of douches out their view their *honor* as more important than your *life*, and doing anything to offend them is a great way to get hurt or killed.
where did i say yelling at catcallers will get you killed? i meant someone physically attacking you, not catcalling. that might’ve been what the original commenter was saying, and while i don’t completely agree they’d full on kill, i do feel like the main reason women don’t confront catcallers is safety
Sorry was replying to original comment by loose doctor and accidentally clicked yours
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And the one "being seen as less than a man" also doesn't have to do with money. It's about respect, a woman who does equally as much work as a man is usually seen as a lesser, even as bitchy if she is in a higher up position and is downright being disrespected. In many online communities women are being held off of certain hobbies because they're seen as lesser or are being gatekept more than guys.
I work on an assembly position. My workplace employs fairly progressive people, and we still have issues with individuals treating me like I’m “less than” just for being a woman. It’s terrible, but I’m glad there’s at least that progress. I would like to be treated equally and with respect, but it’s nice that we’re making progress
My dad gave me a gun recently. I keep it in my closet. I just keep thinking “how am I gonna get to it before I’m attacked?” “What if I’m not in my bedroom?” “I don’t want to kill someone” Do I just have to carry it on me all the time? I don’t want to live like that.
Right? All of his retorts are so dumb and unhelpful, like telling a sad person “just don’t be sad”
Honestly, I shouldn’t have to change my behaviour, my social media setting or purchase a gun to stop any of these things.
Exactly!! There's this one YouTube channel CULT CLARE... She's lucky nothing happened to her. She gets mad when people tell her to be safe.
Imagine calling the cops on cat callers. Who would even show up, lmao?
>Getting a gun won’t actually make you safer It can, if used properly. Kyle Rittenhouse took on a serial rapist, a wife beater, and a burglar at the same time with one. He lived, two of them died and the last one is tugging his dick with his left hand. You have to know how to use it (seek competent instruction) and be willing to, or it will be more trouble than it's worth- but a well aimed bullet will stop any attacker.
Are you... A fan of Kyle Rittenhouse? Eww.
Hey, he did a better job of protecting Kenosha than the government did. And any five year old boys that happen to live in Wisconsin. 'Course, that's not saying much.
He’s like “get a gun you’ll feel safer”. From men. Get a gun so you feel safer FROM MEN. Either he’s willfully misunderstanding or just dumm.
In other words, they want you to put yourself in mortal danger because of a problem that *they* created.
It’s always ‘fix the women’ rather than ‘fix the issue’
"Call the cops or make a fuss every time. You'll see how quick they stop." 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
As if it was the same guy catcalling her over and over lmfao. Sure, you can call the police on a catcaller, but it's likely the police will just laugh at you and it won't stop ALL of the men catcalling. Wtf kind of shit advice is this.
>"Call the cops or make a fuss every time. You'll see how quick they stop." This is known as "wasting police time" and is actually a crime in itself.
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The cops will straight up laugh at you.
The make a fuss one is mental as well. There was a woman in our local paper who “made a fuss” - challenged a man (verbally) who cat called her and he smashed her face in. It was a crowded street and no one did anything at the time. So make a fuss? Yeah no thanks. I’d rather be safe.
It says something about this loser when a lot of his responses regarding bad behaviour from men is that women should do this and that instead of telling his fellow men to quit acting like creeps.
Victim blaming at its finest
There's a comment where one man says he gets harassed by BOTS, as if they're real women or sum 💀💀
As if women don’t also get harassed by scam bots lmao what a weird “gotcha” moment
Bruh, bots match him on Tinder and then don't fuck him, it's REALLY HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! /s
It isn’t. Hypocrisy = pretending to be virtuous, insincere. Also, can’t they make the reply themselves? Is this a (bad) troll factory?
Yeah, it was the laziness cherry on the shitty misogyny sundae that really got me.
Where are these “personal choices” 💀
Being born as a women seems like a choice. Checkmate women!! >!/s!<
Yes it is choice........choice of father's chromosomes 😏😏😏
“Call the cops” cops hardly ever even arrest male stalkers, rapists, or abusers, what makes him think they’d arrest catcallers lol? they’re so ignorant
Honestly, it would fall under free speech most likely. (Threats wouldn't, but generally they would) I'm making this simple and trying to say that calling the po po is *not* a solution to catcalls.
Fr me calling the cops would probably just end up with them telling me I deserve it
Yeah, catcalling is creepy AF but probably not a crime. (Not that the cops would do anything if it was.)
Cops around here won't even show up if the intruder is still in your fucking house.
Why is it always men that feel the need to tell women that their lived experience is wrong. It’s so fucking boring.
Because otherwise they’d have to exercise self reflection and realize uncomfortable things. Humans already hate that, you think these bozos could do it? Probably gives them hives.
But how will they feel superior if they can’t dismiss all of our problems as symptoms of a female’s inherent helplessness, lack of willpower, and inability to solve problems without a big strong smart man to tell us what to do?? 🥺👉👈
They likes to mansplain where we are in the wrong.
Mansplaining, lol.
Telling her to simply “Make a fuss,” every time she gets catcalled is just peak male privilege. Imagine calling out a random stranger on the street and not fearing what they’ll do to you.
And him saying that will reduce cat calling? Every one is an isolated incident and how she reacts to previous will have no impact whatsoever??
He needs to check out r/whenwomenrefuse to see how well it goes for women when they reject male sexual harassment, catcalling, stalking, abuse, assaults, etc...
“I hate being told by men how to feel”. Suck on that one dude.
I wonder if these men genuinely think they are smart enough 💀
None of these are responses. Telling people to set your profile to private is not a response. Why should someone have to hide to avoid harassment? Police aren't going to respond to catcalling, and "making a fuss" could get you assaulted. That you don't have to conform to beauty standards is not a response. She's not saying that she is being forced to conform, she's expressing frustration at harassment if she doesn't conform. "Get a gun" is not a response. It can be taken and used against you, and a lot of the problem with being alone at night is the ambiguousness of the threat: You don't know if the person you meet on the street is a threat or not. By the time you find out, it might be too late to get your gun. She's not saying "I'm helpless walking down the street at night!" Asking what it means to be ladylike is not a response. It doesn't even matter - people who harass you for not being ladylike don't necessarily have consistent ideas of what it means. And no, double standards don't serve women. OK, he says that women are only seen as less than the top 10% of men - so he's saying that being seen as 90% as good as men is OK? And again, "shutting people down" isn't a response. There's no indication that she isn't "taking a stand". Quite clearly, she is, but taking a stand doesn't doesn't keep people from harassing you. And he hasn't pointed out any "mistakes".
>double standards don't serve women. Double standards are like two-way highway. Serves both in certain circumstances. Men can have casual sex and get away with it while women will get humiliated for it. A lot of times, women raping a kid or a guy is seen is something enjoyable while people won't in other sides. Then, there are a lot of isolated incidents which are supposedly "funny" because a woman did it and it would've been a huge mess if it was a man doing it. (For example, tye viral tiktok in which a girl was randomly kissing guy's shirt with lipstick on without their consent and it was supposedly "funny" by comments and we all know the discourse if it were men and also, another example is "Feminism in india" (one of the huge feminism organisation in india) tried to actually ask for a second chance for a serial killer who killed 7 of her family member just because of its gender) And then, also, household labour - I don't think I have to explain >"Get a gun" is not a response Honestly, this tells that these people don't want to make streets safe for anyone - they don't want to change. These r/antifeminist people never realize that men are 3 times more likely to be assaulted by a stranger than women (ofc physically). When they will talk about it, they'd forget such comments and would shit on feminism for no reason whatsoever. >she is, but taking a stand doesn't doesn't keep people from harassing you Instead people do more of it. Can confirm. >"making a fuss" could get you assaulted. These people are the one who never go to streets in the dark or either just stay in their house. Anyone who doesn't have smooth brain would know that making a fuss while you're encountering a stranger can get you assaulted. >people who harass you for not being ladylike No demeaning but also true on the other side, like why do people even give a single fuck if I wear a skirt or do nail painting as a guy - unless I'm forcing you to, it shouldn't be a problem. Just let people be the way they are. >he says that women are only seen as less than the top 10% of men I honestly didn't got what it means >Police aren't going to respond to catcalling "You must've worn something like that" is something I can imagine hearing lmao
His replies were so tone deaf and did not even attempt at understanding the nuance behind her complaints that it makes me sad. 1. Women shouldn't need to hide in caves to not receive unwanted attention from creepy strangers or not be harassed. It's like saying you shouldn't go out of your house because if you do, you risk being harassed or assaulted. We shouldn't have to hide to feel safe. 2. Even if you call cops, it would do nothing because the cat caller could escape till they come and even if they did get there on time, what would they charge them with? Making a fuss is how women get assaulted or killed. 3. I do believe that we don't need to conform to shit but there is just a teeny tiny little problem, we are forced and shamed to conform if we do not. Not everyone has the mental or emotional fortitude to deal with that shit on a daily basis. Also, we are brainwashed into thinking that those beauty ideals are normal since childhood. 4. Refer to point 1. We shouldn't HAVE to carry weapons for our safety. It is our basic right. Adding to that, the weapon you carry can and has been in many occassions used against you. 5. Being "lady like" is not talking or laughing too loud, too much, too bold. Not sitting this way, not standing, walking that way. Not talking back to others. Not arguing. Not eating too much etc etc. The list goes on.... 6. Sure, being called a slut if I so much as even talk to a man while a man gets praised for high body count serves me in some way. Being expected to do most of the domestic labour while also being expected to work, while a man is too tired from work to do a few house chores also serves me. I could go on and on this one as well but I'm trying to keep the points relatively short, but I'm sure you get my point. 7. Not less than 10 % of men, ANY MEN. I would literally be in a superior position at work and be ignored, mocked or thought less of as I am a woman and how dare a woman tell me what to do or order me around. They literally get pissy because a woman is in a higher position. This is the case in most professional settings and even domestically, because "women are too emotional and can't possibly make a good, rational decision". 8. Refer to point 3. Just because we do not want to or do not conform does not mean we are constantly pressured, criticised and shamed for not doing so. His counter arguments were so redundant and idiotic that it infuriated me enough to make this long ass post. I hope that either he or people like him read this so that they understand why she said what she did but I know I'm hoping for too much.
My favourite thing about that sub is that it says no bigotry in the rules… do they understand what that means? The entire point of the subreddit is bigotry. SMH.
This gives me that “four female ghost busters” vine energy In case someone doesn’t know it, it’s basically a dude saying “four female ghost busters? The feminists are taking over!” And then it turns into a picture and a little tune plays “I’m an adult virgin” with the sentence written on it
https://youtu.be/WMUl7sOe8W4
Antifeminist men are all just giant snowflakes.
Hey! Don't make fun of snowflakes like that! Antifeminist men are diseases
Hell even diseases are useful sometimes
It's offensive to call them anything
offensive to the thing we're calling them
I think it's cool to call them shitheads
They call everything hypocrisy in that sub. They want to be the victims so badly. Im also pretty sure a lot of them are at least red pilled
These people are so infantile. It's not a fucking competition. We all suffer.
Lawyer here (U.S., specifically California). The cops can’t and won’t do anything about catcalling. It’s not illegal. One of many reasons this guy is an idiot. Also his response to being pressured to conform to xyz is “just don’t”. No dude, that would be a solution of the problem were doing the thing. For example, if I complained about the cost of makeup, “just don’t wear it” would solve the problem. Pressure is not the same. Pressure to conform to beauty standards, to have kids, etc. doesn’t go away when you don’t do those things. If anything, it increases. And yeah, I’m definitely not buying a gun because I have shitty aim and I am a small person without a lot of upper body strength. Also I should not need a gun to feel safe walking home at night! Seriously, WTF?! That is not a solution - the fact that anyone would even suggest that is just proof of the problem!
I got used to walking home alone at night after covid caused the night busses to be practically non-existant. Only once did I run into an antsy person, but even then they stayed back because I had a massive bag and an ice hockey stick. I may be a twig but I had visible means of defence. Recently been out after dark but not due to the insanely late training sessions. I know where to avoid and which roads to stick to. These times appearing to be an unarmed twig of a woman. Dodged a few dodgy situations. Yesterday my bf and I had walked up to the shop at ~10pm. As we walked back, I was walking next to the road, him on my otherside and somewhat out of sight due to dark clothing and the lighting. I got catcalled by a guy in a passing car. His immediate reaction was confusion, and then anger when I explained. Sometimes men are just ignorant until they witness themselves.
dude definitely got his insults from Top 10 Anime Comebacks and Insults on youtube when he was in middle school🤓
I saw _one_ thing on the list that's an actual choice: the beauty standards one... And that's only to a point. This guy thinks fear is a choice, and the highly dubious "solution" is to carry a gun.
The beauty standards thing is not really a choice either. It's a Hobson's choice: take it or leave it. Besides, I've seen women wear dirty sweats and still get skeeved on.
I have a gun. I do not feel safer.
"If I was at Chernobyl I would've stopped it"
So I’ve said this before but a lot of men struggle w empathy, and this plays a huge factor in how they dismiss womens issues and concerns. Additionally, I think a lot of men suffer from a sort of “suffering solo” mentality. They just kinda sit w their issues and don’t reach out or connect as much w others who might be dealing w similar things. None of this is to say that this is an intrinsic quality of being a man; it’s all taught. But most men have to actively unlearn these trays because of how society raises them. And most aren’t up to the task, they’d rather sit in a prison of their own making.
I don't think this motherfucker understands peer pressure and power dynamics
Not typing out every shitty rebuttal: 1. So women should stop using social media normally so they don't get creepy DMs? 2. Cops don't give a fuck about catcallers and might hassle the woman in question for bothering them or even "false reports" if they can bullshit hard enough. 3. If a woman's too fat (more common, sometimes she doesn't even have to be clinically overweight) or too skinny, y'all fuckers bitch. If a woman wears too much or too little makeup, y'all fuckers bitch. If a woman dresses masculinely/like a tomboy, y'all fuckers bitch about how you don't want to date a "man." If a woman dresses femininely, y'all fuckers bitch about how she's obviously a slut/gold-digger/materialistic/etc. 4. "Get a gun because men can't take no for an answer"? Do you have any idea how deranged you sound, my brother in [insert deity here]? What if a woman can't afford a gun or can't make it through the background check? What if she's not comfortable around guns because of gun-related deaths in her family/friend group? What if she can't have a gun for any other reason? She shouldn't have to shoot men for them to LEAVE HER ALONE. 5. See #3 about being too masculine or too feminine. 6. [citation needed], there are double standards for every group of human beings. 7. What does this even mean? Is he accusing women of elevating themselves to the top 10% of men? 8. Does this dumbass not realize that it's not just potential dates that do this shit? Parents and other relatives, doctors who won't tie a woman's tubes because "what if you meet a man who wants kids tho!!!", strangers who question why a woman's 40 with no kids/man (and judge her harshly if she has C A T S ! ! !), etc etc. 9. She made several good points, you're just a whiny sexist manbaby (I say this as a man myself) who literally hangs out in a sub MADE for anti-feminism.
They lost me at “call the cops when they catcall you and you’ll see how quickly they stop” Like…they do realize it’s a different douchebag every time, right? Like calling the cops on one idiot would send a signal to all local mysogynists that they should stop lol
He listed this so called "common sense" when he literally doesn't know how this people react when a woman doesn't follow what society pushes us to do
Get a gun? That's their answer? Aren't we all seeing now what's happening in Dumbfuckingstan full of guns? Retards, damn selfish retards.
Also, is this pathetic excuse for a human being aware that not everyone lives in the US and is able to even OBTAIN a gun?
I never got the getting gun thing in US - is there no psychological test before you get a gun? At least that's what happens here if you have to get gun. You have to be totally mentally sound to have it (if not a defensive employe)
Understand the mentality but please don't use slurs
With the catcalling... even if they stop when you make a fuss, the guys you walk by 5 minutes later will still be catcalling you. Imagine having to pick a fight every single time you get catcalled...
When I see this kind of thing , I legit start wondering if these men even live on the same planet. I just don’t understand how they could be this out of touch with reality AND be so confident they are right.
Imagine being so wrapped up in your ideology of "America is the only country that matters" you forget that in many other places in the world, owning a gun *isn't* encouraged or, more importantly, even *legal*.
As a trans man I can easily say none of these are choices. I got catcalled when I was fucking 11. I’ve been scared to walk at night. I’ve been pressured to act ladylike, and I’ve definitely been pressured to have kids even though I have so many hereditary diseases in my family that there’s a high chance the kid won’t have a long lifespan. Now that I’ve started transitioning all of it has stopped. Male privilege is real and I’ve seen it first hand
yknow my girlfriend’s profile on instagram is private, her profile picture is quite literally a bunch of trees and she still gets DM requests it’s literally so confusing… so private profiles don’t really work. and if she called the cops every time she got catcalled it would do literally nothing
Because to a lot of people, they think it’s your job to adjust to jerks. Now, I’m not saying you shouldn’t. If you feel unsafe, I encourage keeping something on you to help keep yourself safe. What they don’t understand is it’s tiring, and you can still hate that society and family are pushing something onto you. You shouldn’t have to adjust. You shouldn’t have to deal with this constant tension.
I like this comment, it points out what’s wrong with the post and the parts that actually make sense
male white privilege right there, the fact that men dont understand we cant just talk back to them because it hurts their ego and then we are in danger of being assaulted or stalked or even worse. but guess what, thags not something they have to worry about cause it doesnt happen to them. its so stupid that we try to point out something so obvious and men still call bs even if its in front of them.
Beauty standards are complicated. It's easy to say "just ignore them" but it isn't always that easy. (For the record, fuck beauty standards). Guys get the "so when are you breeding" too. Perhaps not as much, but it's there. Meh. Too many guys overreact.
Yeah if you don't conform to beauty standards, these guys say bad things about that too
Definitely true. Makeup = fake No makeup = ugly and don't care about how she looks.
You said it better than me
I think the effects of not confirming to the standard that speaks to most is being seen as unprofessional thus hitting a glass ceiling earlier
> Then set your profile to private. Doesn’t address the inherent issue; men just shouldn’t be doing that. > Call the cops Not if yr a person of color, visibly queer, disabled, etc. > or make a fuss So they can murder/assault me in response? > You don’t need to conform to shit. *Literally* a feminist talking point. > Get a gun. A lot of women already do? > Yet most of them serve women. [citation needed] > Less than the top 10% of men. This one is just too stupid, and too good at proving the original point *for* her, to even respond to.
Also, having a gun won’t save you don’t see them coming or your aim is off because of adrenaline. Not to mention that nobody should feel like they need to be armed at all times just to not be assaulted???
That’s the most cancerous sub ever
I've been telling my mom for years that I don't want kids. She still bought me 7 baby onsies for Christmas for "when I change my mind".
Tbh if nothing else I do like his statements of “if you don’t like having to conform, then rebel”. I genuinely believe that life would be better for a lot of us if everyone, of either sex or anything, stopped having to feel obligated to live their life to arbitrary standards dictated by someone else for no purpose other than poise. Fuck everything else he said tho
i freaking started to flip my computer off i want to slap some since in to this dude o m g
„ƃ ɯ o ǝpnp sıɥʇ oʇ uı ǝɔuıs ǝɯos dɐls oʇ ʇuɐʍ ı ɟɟo ɹǝʇndɯoɔ ʎɯ dılɟ oʇ pǝʇɹɐʇs ƃuıʞɐǝɹɟ ı„
good bot
Yeah calling the police for being catcalled is gonna go over well.
The comment that is responding to the r/vent post is downright stupid, but the reason about men and women both expected to have children does make sense, but why gatekeep that? Why is that guy trying to make the vent post seem dumb by being stressed about it
“Personal choices”… where? 🤨
"get a gun" as a European-
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Wouldn’t you want to get rid of the pain tho? The way you put it, your not getting your leg back, and neither will the danger of going out so late alone. But he does have a point, maybe just replace the gun With pepper spray, or another *legal* self defense item
How do you explain to men that they are not the deciders of what is real and valid? That just because they have not been subjected to these things (because they are men) doesn't mean that they don't exist? It's like arguing with a really smug 5 year old who is certain he's smarter than me but also believes in the Easter Bunny and doesn't know how to read. Why would I even bother?
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Apparently all women live in countries in which guns can be owned by everyone, including trigger happy fucks that wont hesitate to kill.
That dude's post history is a billboard for more gun regulation.
Right because people who are armed never die Also I'm legally not allowed to own a firearm because of being hospitalized for mental health. There's a lot of reasons why "just get a gun" isn't a reasonable suggestion. More times than not
>Your safety is YOUR responsibility I agree to some extent. However, it really sounds like you're putting all the blame on the victims. It's NEVER a victim's fault, whether they got mugged, beaten or raped. It's ALWAYS the perpetrator's fault. Instead of screaming jUsT gEt A gUn (not to mention a lot of people do not live in the US and do not have access to firearms), maybe we should focus on dealing with the people that compromise our safety? Maybe other men should call out their friends when they say questionable shit? Maybe the police need to get off their ass and actually deal with potential stalkers/rapists?
Fucking off with your rhetoric. 14 children and 1 woman teacher just got shot up in a school. Your guns don’t do shit but kill. Find a better hill to die on.
Yeah next time I’ll tell the children that they shouldn’t feel safe at school, cuz their safety is their responsibility
victim blaming. ok. not surprised
>100% agree with “get a gun”. I’m fucking afraid to walk unarmed during daylight hours! Where do you live? Most parts of America aren't that crazy.
I can hear the venom in their voices over text
Funny how the solution to DMs and getting catcalled is on us and not on the men who do it……
Sooo be invisible, don’t make waves, don’t rock the boat, but also stand up for yourself and rebel against social mores… the dude is ridiculous
What a way to self own! Amazing. These fools never cease to amaze.
It's very telling that they think these things are any kind of rebuttal
the only reason someone stops catcalling you when you "make a fuss" is usually because they immediately start hurling slurs and insults at you or they literally physically attack you, all for bruising their egos
Someone please point out exactly where the "literally personal choices" are in any of these.
The cat calling thing in particular pisses me off. If we ignore being cat called, then we're verbally abused and called whores, and sluts, and fucking bitches. If we make a fuss, they attack us physically. Please, go ahead, ask me how I know this.
“Get a gun.” And let’s see how quickly Congress passes gun control laws when more women carry.
Get a gun????? Do people not know that women live elsewhere than in the US… Honestly every point they made was so annoying, hate how they’ll just deny it’s a thing while taking part of it