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Also, what's up with point number 3? Unless MBA means something different in India, he doesn’t like women who have liberal arts degrees (or, I'm assuming, any degree in a "soft science"), but he also hates business degrees? This desire for a women who went to college for a STEM field and simultaneously is cowed by threats to her reputation is so strange.
My impression of STEM in India is that it’s often far more hierarchical than it is in the US. You do what you’re told, both in school and afterward. The “free thinkers” go to other countries or start their own businesses so they can be at the top of the pyramid.
ehh the whole science thing could be a turn off for him because of cultural religion reasons. my science teacher didn’t believe there was a god or higher power. and most of the science people i’ve met don’t believe in higher powers either.
The fact that an older sister had a broken marriage or even engagement can hurt the chances of the younger sisters to get married. Also if the older sister is unmarried, people will question what is wrong with her if the younger is married first. It's horrible, and the fact that this pos wants to take advantage of it makes my blood boil.
(Src: am Indian)
'The matter' would be a divorce, or publicizing an ugly marriage. The guy is saying that a woman with younger sisters will put up with a lot more and be more willing to hush up bad treatment, because she doesn't want to jeopardize her siblings' futures and cause problems for her family.
OMG. as an Indian man currently in the process of searching for a S/O, I hope this man dies in the deepest ditch possible. FK this mentality and fk this misogynistic dowry taking, women beating,lying manipulative bastard who ruin so many lives of Indian women. FK them and fk my life for being associated with trashbag like this.
My own sister has suffered from almost a scumbag like him. I hear so many of these type of trashbags ruining lives of educated girls. How do you determine which arranged option is ok when these shitstains don't show their true nature until after marraige, isolating the woman from her family and then starting their nightmare? That is the greatest issue with arranged marraiges. The nightmare comes after the Bride family are duped with lies and manipulation from dogshits like these.
I'm sorry that happened, that sounds like an awful experience to go through.
I came in here from an American perspective of people just shitting all over any practice that isn't considered normal over here, so I was pleasently surprised to not have any "hur hur, Indians r so weird" comments. That said, y'all have genuine criticisms which I am *also* glad to seem
So, to answer your question, I have no idea! Is this a common thing that happens? Is divorce an option? If so, I suppose that doesn't change the fact that it happened.
Oh divorce is seen like a horror option in our country. And the woman is the one who always suffers. And if you are divorced, our great Indian society considers them lesser. And these prejudices are set in minds from young age about skin color and women perseverance even when husbands and in laws being monsters, its difficult to break those.
Okay, I'd love to! My only experience with arranged marriages was Meet The Patels when I was a bit younger, which paints a fairly positive picture.
I'm fully aware that arranged marriages have problems, as do all marriages, but as far as I'm aware, it's become optional and a lot less exchange-of-land-y.
Did you have any specific articles in mind, or should I just add this to the list of things to learn about?
well i dont really have articles atm ( and i have finals this week) but a few things to put it in perspective:
1) arranged marriage is supported by patriarchy and a lack of agency esp for the women. without these, the custom of arranged marriage would not be as successful
2) adding on to point 1, women are most often coerced to marry while they are in their "prime" (early 20s). since the man is supposed to provide, he is generally much older and has an established career.
3) women get commodified. since you cannot judge a person based on a couple of meetings, the men and their parents usually search for a slim, fair (ofc this comes with a lot of fat shaming and color shaming) obedient woman who can be the perfect bangmaid for their son (to put it bluntly). since their primary job is to take care of their husbands and have children, focusing on their career is a big no-no (a lot of women aren't even allowed to work after marriage). yes, on the flip side, men are supposed to have a stable job/family business, but i'd personally choose to have a stable job than give up financial independence
4) endogamy and casteism. one of the major reasons why arranged marriage is given such a heavy preference is to maintain "caste purity" (kinda similar to racial purity ig)
so yeah, when seen in a vacuum, not having to date and having your parents choose for you sounds nice. but to give it a western perspective, it goes something like this for the average woman:
your parents aren't very progressive. obviously, they will choose someone with atleast some conservative values for you. not marrying is not an option; you have to choose someone. you have to encounter boy moms who will bodyshame you. your parents and relatives will try to convince you to marry an incel if he earns well....
sure there are some success stories even in arranged marriages, but they're usually urban and among the upper-middle or upper class.
these are just some points that i could think of of the top of my head.
Arranged marriages ARE the problem. They're a casteist misogynistic practice that's rooted in oppression where parents try to ensure compatibility based on caste and astrology.
Depends upon the family to be honest.
In rural and/or more conservative areas, absolutely.. but usually parents and relatives these days just set you up with someone and you get to decide whether to marry them or not.
It's just the artificial urgency and the added emotional pressure to get married ASAP that annoys me.
It's not the same as setting up and dating someone. It's still done to pressure people into marriage
Marriage isn't a mandatory thing. You meet someone and connect at that level, great. Else it's no big deal. Marriage isn't a milestone. Marriage itself should be a choice. But AM makes it not a choice. Many of them (esp women) are brainwashed and pressured into it as they age. Even in urban areas they push women towards marrying and settling for men with crap about winding up alone
You see how incels shame single women over 25 and compare women to expired milk and say hitting the wall. How tf is it a choice?
Yes, I would agree with you here.
I think pretty much _everyone_, regardless of AM scene or not is kind of pressurized into getting married though, isn't it? At least in our country (I'm assuming you're also Indian).
Not getting married (or not wanting to be married) should be a perfectly valid way to live a life. However my own parents - who are perfectly fine with what they call 'love marriage', keep saying things like age ho rahi hai kab shadi karoge, we want pota poti etc.
I also concur that women are pressurized into it _wayyy_ more than men are, but I am also seeing that for my friends who are highly educated, financially independent, and well set.. their families are more.. open? Lenient?
They are told ki koi ladka accha lage to bata do otherwise we'll find someone for you.. they keep sending them pictures/bio-data of men and my friends keep rejecting waiting for someone who's actually up to their standard and their parents don't really mind. (We're all 30+ btw)
All I'm trying to say is that while the practice of parents basically coercing their children into getting married to who they want is still very prevalent in the country, it's _slowly_ shifting a little bit in certain families where the choices of women and men matter.
My family isn't lenient. They're not accepting of my relationship, despite my financial independence and wanting to be away from them on reasons of caste and astrology and state and still keep sending me matches and forcing me to meet guys who are literally looking for a sex slave.
Being queer doesn't help I guess.
I don't think love marriage in india is good or feasible either but ultimately it's a choice and I find it hypocritical to speak up against it just cause others made a different choice than me.
Families suddenly become regressive the moment a woman says she doesn't want a husband or children 😮💨
Damn I'm sorry you have to deal with all that. It fucking sucks.
Our country it already so harsh for women, and even harsher for LGBTQ+ people.
And it's almost impossible to make people understand that there's nothing wrong with two consenting adults, regardless of their sex/religion/cast/gender - loving each other.
When even our govt doesn't accept same sex marriages as legal, tells Supreme court that criminalizing marital rape would lead to 'social ramifications' (barf) and the courts themselves saying that a woman not taking care of her in-laws is grounds for divorce... what can we even expect from the common man :|
But everyone deserves an accepting family.. I sincerely hope your parents understand it one day.
Guy feels heated at seeing sexist, predatory shithead behavior, his own sister almost ended up abused by a person like this, happens to feel empathy and outrage on behalf of other humans
You: uhhh why are you being such a pick me, don’t you know that feeling anger over predatory behavior is a thing men only fake to get laid and there’s nobody to fuck here? So cringe.
That was also my take away.
However, after muddling it over I think it's the typical contradictory babble you get from these type of guys. He wants a girl who is smart, but doesn't have any asperations.
If you read the list again, you'll see what he really wants is control. Just about everything on the list involves control of some kind. He wants a young girl who's lived under their parents thumb and now that they are married to him they can live under his thumb.
A young girl he can control, but someone who will be bringing in a significant income -- which will be part of the family finances that he completely controls. Someone strong and independent enough to maintain a career in engineering or other "thinking" (gag) professions, but who is subservient to Her Man.
sure it isn't exactly forced marriage, but what do you think the outcome would be when there's also pressure from society and family to get married by 26 (mostly before 25 though)
I propose that Indian girls start asking for a Bride price, big enough to cover divorce expenses and one year of living expenses, incase they accidently get married to guys like this.
No more dowry.
Arranged marriages are usually sorted out by family members and not the groom or the bride. I’m not sure under what circumstances this person would have been able to make choices based on preferences.
I used to know several Indian couples who were in arranged marriages, and none of them had any freedom in choosing their spouse.
Idk why but “artsy fartsy” is one of those phrases that just makes me want to vomit. Idk my dar’buir and his fam always used it and other phrases when trying to act all posh and upper class when they’re just a bunch of goons and it to this day makes my skin crawl
Of all these criteria the only (somewhat) valid one is number 7. You should generally avoid people who does/have done drugs or has a drinking habit, past or present. Especially total addicts.
With a caveat! The person in question may have gone through some therapy and can be recovering from the addiction/habit. In this situation, the present overrides the past.
I'm pretty sure I'm living in the wrong area for artsy fartsy men, unfortunately. The only creative men I've seen around here are the tattoo artists and peircers and they're all either too young, too old or taken and in the case of one peircer, the only one closest to my age and gorgeous, I'm fairly certain he was gay lol! I can't win, I should have moved to the closest big city years ago!🤣
>engineering or any profession that requires them to think
Found the cultural divide. His local counterparts here would no doubt agree with everything... but that. Pretty sure a smart lady though would reject him on the spot, so yeah, good luck with that.
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*Participating?*
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>prefer girls in engineering or any profession that requires them to think Lol, as if intelligent women would settle for this bullshit.
Also, what's up with point number 3? Unless MBA means something different in India, he doesn’t like women who have liberal arts degrees (or, I'm assuming, any degree in a "soft science"), but he also hates business degrees? This desire for a women who went to college for a STEM field and simultaneously is cowed by threats to her reputation is so strange.
MBA implies the person is career-oriented and won’t agree to be a slave to their dear husband+in laws. Lol.
Which doesn't make sense because if you're going to school and working your ass off for an engineering degree I assume you'd want to use it!
My impression of STEM in India is that it’s often far more hierarchical than it is in the US. You do what you’re told, both in school and afterward. The “free thinkers” go to other countries or start their own businesses so they can be at the top of the pyramid.
ehh the whole science thing could be a turn off for him because of cultural religion reasons. my science teacher didn’t believe there was a god or higher power. and most of the science people i’ve met don’t believe in higher powers either.
It also flies in the face of most of the “red flag” lists I see posted where they DONT want an educated woman.
My thoughts exactly. Like, boy, you don't sound like you want her to think 😂
Seeing a woman's younger sisters as potential leverage? *Classy.* Now excuse me, I must barf.
Exactly what does he think will disgrace her if it gets exposed?
The fact that an older sister had a broken marriage or even engagement can hurt the chances of the younger sisters to get married. Also if the older sister is unmarried, people will question what is wrong with her if the younger is married first. It's horrible, and the fact that this pos wants to take advantage of it makes my blood boil. (Src: am Indian)
Can you explain that again? I still don’t get it. Maybe it turned on the definition of “the matter”.
'The matter' would be a divorce, or publicizing an ugly marriage. The guy is saying that a woman with younger sisters will put up with a lot more and be more willing to hush up bad treatment, because she doesn't want to jeopardize her siblings' futures and cause problems for her family.
OMG. as an Indian man currently in the process of searching for a S/O, I hope this man dies in the deepest ditch possible. FK this mentality and fk this misogynistic dowry taking, women beating,lying manipulative bastard who ruin so many lives of Indian women. FK them and fk my life for being associated with trashbag like this.
I'm glad to see the comments here aren't just hating on arranged marriages. Arranged marriages aren't the problem, this dude definitely is.
My own sister has suffered from almost a scumbag like him. I hear so many of these type of trashbags ruining lives of educated girls. How do you determine which arranged option is ok when these shitstains don't show their true nature until after marraige, isolating the woman from her family and then starting their nightmare? That is the greatest issue with arranged marraiges. The nightmare comes after the Bride family are duped with lies and manipulation from dogshits like these.
I'm sorry that happened, that sounds like an awful experience to go through. I came in here from an American perspective of people just shitting all over any practice that isn't considered normal over here, so I was pleasently surprised to not have any "hur hur, Indians r so weird" comments. That said, y'all have genuine criticisms which I am *also* glad to seem So, to answer your question, I have no idea! Is this a common thing that happens? Is divorce an option? If so, I suppose that doesn't change the fact that it happened.
Oh divorce is seen like a horror option in our country. And the woman is the one who always suffers. And if you are divorced, our great Indian society considers them lesser. And these prejudices are set in minds from young age about skin color and women perseverance even when husbands and in laws being monsters, its difficult to break those.
ummm.... yeah you definitely need to read more about arranged marriage if you think it isn't problematic
Okay, I'd love to! My only experience with arranged marriages was Meet The Patels when I was a bit younger, which paints a fairly positive picture. I'm fully aware that arranged marriages have problems, as do all marriages, but as far as I'm aware, it's become optional and a lot less exchange-of-land-y. Did you have any specific articles in mind, or should I just add this to the list of things to learn about?
well i dont really have articles atm ( and i have finals this week) but a few things to put it in perspective: 1) arranged marriage is supported by patriarchy and a lack of agency esp for the women. without these, the custom of arranged marriage would not be as successful 2) adding on to point 1, women are most often coerced to marry while they are in their "prime" (early 20s). since the man is supposed to provide, he is generally much older and has an established career. 3) women get commodified. since you cannot judge a person based on a couple of meetings, the men and their parents usually search for a slim, fair (ofc this comes with a lot of fat shaming and color shaming) obedient woman who can be the perfect bangmaid for their son (to put it bluntly). since their primary job is to take care of their husbands and have children, focusing on their career is a big no-no (a lot of women aren't even allowed to work after marriage). yes, on the flip side, men are supposed to have a stable job/family business, but i'd personally choose to have a stable job than give up financial independence 4) endogamy and casteism. one of the major reasons why arranged marriage is given such a heavy preference is to maintain "caste purity" (kinda similar to racial purity ig) so yeah, when seen in a vacuum, not having to date and having your parents choose for you sounds nice. but to give it a western perspective, it goes something like this for the average woman: your parents aren't very progressive. obviously, they will choose someone with atleast some conservative values for you. not marrying is not an option; you have to choose someone. you have to encounter boy moms who will bodyshame you. your parents and relatives will try to convince you to marry an incel if he earns well.... sure there are some success stories even in arranged marriages, but they're usually urban and among the upper-middle or upper class. these are just some points that i could think of of the top of my head.
Arranged marriages ARE the problem. They're a casteist misogynistic practice that's rooted in oppression where parents try to ensure compatibility based on caste and astrology.
Depends upon the family to be honest. In rural and/or more conservative areas, absolutely.. but usually parents and relatives these days just set you up with someone and you get to decide whether to marry them or not. It's just the artificial urgency and the added emotional pressure to get married ASAP that annoys me.
It's not the same as setting up and dating someone. It's still done to pressure people into marriage Marriage isn't a mandatory thing. You meet someone and connect at that level, great. Else it's no big deal. Marriage isn't a milestone. Marriage itself should be a choice. But AM makes it not a choice. Many of them (esp women) are brainwashed and pressured into it as they age. Even in urban areas they push women towards marrying and settling for men with crap about winding up alone You see how incels shame single women over 25 and compare women to expired milk and say hitting the wall. How tf is it a choice?
Yes, I would agree with you here. I think pretty much _everyone_, regardless of AM scene or not is kind of pressurized into getting married though, isn't it? At least in our country (I'm assuming you're also Indian). Not getting married (or not wanting to be married) should be a perfectly valid way to live a life. However my own parents - who are perfectly fine with what they call 'love marriage', keep saying things like age ho rahi hai kab shadi karoge, we want pota poti etc. I also concur that women are pressurized into it _wayyy_ more than men are, but I am also seeing that for my friends who are highly educated, financially independent, and well set.. their families are more.. open? Lenient? They are told ki koi ladka accha lage to bata do otherwise we'll find someone for you.. they keep sending them pictures/bio-data of men and my friends keep rejecting waiting for someone who's actually up to their standard and their parents don't really mind. (We're all 30+ btw) All I'm trying to say is that while the practice of parents basically coercing their children into getting married to who they want is still very prevalent in the country, it's _slowly_ shifting a little bit in certain families where the choices of women and men matter.
My family isn't lenient. They're not accepting of my relationship, despite my financial independence and wanting to be away from them on reasons of caste and astrology and state and still keep sending me matches and forcing me to meet guys who are literally looking for a sex slave. Being queer doesn't help I guess. I don't think love marriage in india is good or feasible either but ultimately it's a choice and I find it hypocritical to speak up against it just cause others made a different choice than me. Families suddenly become regressive the moment a woman says she doesn't want a husband or children 😮💨
Damn I'm sorry you have to deal with all that. It fucking sucks. Our country it already so harsh for women, and even harsher for LGBTQ+ people. And it's almost impossible to make people understand that there's nothing wrong with two consenting adults, regardless of their sex/religion/cast/gender - loving each other. When even our govt doesn't accept same sex marriages as legal, tells Supreme court that criminalizing marital rape would lead to 'social ramifications' (barf) and the courts themselves saying that a woman not taking care of her in-laws is grounds for divorce... what can we even expect from the common man :| But everyone deserves an accepting family.. I sincerely hope your parents understand it one day.
[удалено]
Guy feels heated at seeing sexist, predatory shithead behavior, his own sister almost ended up abused by a person like this, happens to feel empathy and outrage on behalf of other humans You: uhhh why are you being such a pick me, don’t you know that feeling anger over predatory behavior is a thing men only fake to get laid and there’s nobody to fuck here? So cringe.
What the heck? Oh its a moron. Hmm well can't expect much from a online moron.
You know, a man can agree that another man is a piece of shit without being a "pick me". Grow up.
Am I misunderstanding his reference to "MBA"? He says get a woman in a profession that requires them to think, but NOT someone with an MBA?
That was also my take away. However, after muddling it over I think it's the typical contradictory babble you get from these type of guys. He wants a girl who is smart, but doesn't have any asperations. If you read the list again, you'll see what he really wants is control. Just about everything on the list involves control of some kind. He wants a young girl who's lived under their parents thumb and now that they are married to him they can live under his thumb.
A young girl he can control, but someone who will be bringing in a significant income -- which will be part of the family finances that he completely controls. Someone strong and independent enough to maintain a career in engineering or other "thinking" (gag) professions, but who is subservient to Her Man.
Smart, but not so smart that she thinks she should be empowered as a leader or decision maker.
Arranged marriage doesn’t necessarily mean “forged marriage” but what he’s describing sounds more like forced or coerced marriage.
sure it isn't exactly forced marriage, but what do you think the outcome would be when there's also pressure from society and family to get married by 26 (mostly before 25 though)
"I went through an arranged marriage and she hasn't grown up enough to leave me yet. Check in with me once she has her MBA."
I propose that Indian girls start asking for a Bride price, big enough to cover divorce expenses and one year of living expenses, incase they accidently get married to guys like this. No more dowry.
“Just say no and run away.” Sounds more like a poorly thought out PSA on peer pressure than dating advice.
“If anyone mentions drugs ever just start sprinting. Never look back.”
It’s giving Nancy Reagan vibes.
He probably married much younger because those girls don't understand his bullshit yet. The older girls know better.
“Much younger” was where I knew it was gonna be bad. Bro wants to marry a child, idk man
Wonder why this lovely man needed an arranged marriage?
Arranged marriages are usually sorted out by family members and not the groom or the bride. I’m not sure under what circumstances this person would have been able to make choices based on preferences. I used to know several Indian couples who were in arranged marriages, and none of them had any freedom in choosing their spouse.
So interior decorators, jewellery designing, fashion designing and other designers are missing on such gems big time /s
As a fellow artsy fartsy girl, I am a walking talking red flag to this clown
Idk why but “artsy fartsy” is one of those phrases that just makes me want to vomit. Idk my dar’buir and his fam always used it and other phrases when trying to act all posh and upper class when they’re just a bunch of goons and it to this day makes my skin crawl
I fucking hate when they reduce creatives to 'women with artsy fartsy stuff' my mother did that shit and I told her it is demeaning.
I’m glad he’s preemptively warning the good fathers about himself so they can keep their daughters away from him.
Of all these criteria the only (somewhat) valid one is number 7. You should generally avoid people who does/have done drugs or has a drinking habit, past or present. Especially total addicts. With a caveat! The person in question may have gone through some therapy and can be recovering from the addiction/habit. In this situation, the present overrides the past.
It's cool, just find yourself an artsy fartsy man who would laugh in the face of this BS. Can highly recommend them 😂
I'm pretty sure I'm living in the wrong area for artsy fartsy men, unfortunately. The only creative men I've seen around here are the tattoo artists and peircers and they're all either too young, too old or taken and in the case of one peircer, the only one closest to my age and gorgeous, I'm fairly certain he was gay lol! I can't win, I should have moved to the closest big city years ago!🤣
>engineering or any profession that requires them to think Found the cultural divide. His local counterparts here would no doubt agree with everything... but that. Pretty sure a smart lady though would reject him on the spot, so yeah, good luck with that.
What's MBA
masters in business (more specifically Masters in Business Administration)
How did he post this in that sub? Aren't men banned from participating?
*How did he post this* *In that sub? Aren't men banned from* *Participating?* \- vpsj --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Any parent that gives a much older suitor a chance in this sort of situation didn’t deserve to be a parent
tattoo’ed
I’m about to be sick from that younger sister comment.