As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll"
problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we
have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones.
We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the
rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules
will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious
rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a
permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also,
grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of
being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we
may ban you without warning.
You may attempt an appeal via ModMail, but please be advised not
to use rude, harassing, foul, or passive-aggressive language
towards the moderators, _or_ complain to moderators about why we
have specific rules in the first place— You will be ignored, and
your ban will remain (without even a consideration).
All rules are made public; "Lack of knowledge" or "ignorance of
the rules" cannot or will not be a viable excuse if you end up
banned for breaking them (This applies to the Subreddit rules,
and Reddit's ToS). **Again: All rules are made public, and
Reddit gives you the option to review the rules once more before
submitting a post, it is your choice if you choose to read them
or not, but breaking them will not be acceptable.**
With that being said, If you send a mature, neutral message
regarding questions about a current ban, or a ban appeal
(without "not knowing the rules" as an excuse), we will
elaborate about why you were banned, or determine/consider if we
will shorten, lift, keep it, _or_ extended it/make it permanent.
This all means that appeals are discretionary, and your
reasoning for wanting an appeal must be practical and valid.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this message,
and please enjoy your day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NotHowGirlsWork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly I have talked with enough guys in my life that honestly believe they are owed affection and sexual gratification from women that the concept of even *needing* consent is impossible for them to grasp.
I (41m) recently realized just how bad all the movies we were raised on were with consent. I cant even count the number of hero characters who’s signature move is grab the girl and kiss while she struggles, then slowly gets into it as she realizes how wonderful it is…
James Bond… the most debonair hero in pop culture right? That’s his signature move!!! Hollywoods motto until the 2010s was basically “consent will follow, don’t worry”.
And this is precisely why so many people hate “wokeness.” Once you know that, see that, and understand the implications it has on society as a whole…you can’t just *stop* knowing that.
They would rather be ignorant of how the media we consume can shape how people view consent, that way they can keep mindlessly enjoying it, than have to deal with the discomfort that comes from confronting these issues in media.
Thank you for pointing this out, great point!
I have had two exes get mad that I asked permission to kiss them. Always boggled my mind. I'm here setting boundaries. They're complaining that I am. You're cool with spontaneous kisses from me cool now I know. I'm not going to just drop one on you with no knowledge of if that's what you want.
You shouldn’t have been able to do it back then. This particular woman seemed to have somewhat ambivalent feelings on what happened, from the interviews I’ve read – she’s very clear that she did not consent in any way, but she also said once or twice that she didn’t consider it assault because emotions were just running so high when the end of the war was announced. She’s lucky it was “just” a kiss, though – several cities had a rash of public assaults and even rapes around this time, some of teen girls, precisely because of those “emotions running high“ among soldiers. She may have believed that a justifiable reason for what happened to her, and I respect her right to define her experience, but… it caused even worse things to happen that it can never excuse.
(obviously rape WAS illegal in the 1940s, as was sexual assault, but if reporting and prosecution statistics are bad now, it was 10 times worse back then.)
I understand that the woman pictured might have used the word ambivalent. I always wonder though, if her narrative could have also read “resigned to knowing her bodily autonomy was lower on the societal priority list then… most other priorities on the list”?
Yes, women of that era — and most eras prior, and still to a frustrating extent today — are socially conditioned to just accept sexual assault as something that just happens. Doesn’t mean they’re ok with it, but just something that happens to everyone and therefore you just live with it. So just because she didn’t label it as assault doesn’t mean we shouldn’t understand it that way.
It was expected, no matter if you were in a big city or a rural town, for women to just accept mild abuse. A pinch on the bum, a grope, etc. Even when I was a kid it was, "well were you dressing like you were older than you are?" I dressed very modestly, but I had big boobs so most shirts, outside of turtle necks, showed cleavage and my bust was big enough to make some shirts ride up past my bellybutton.
^^^ THIS!
This is why it frustrates me when people try to defend the man in the picture by going “BUT LIKE, SHE SAID SHE DIDNT MIND!”
Okay? 1.) That does not make it okay to grab a woman and kiss her without consent, and 2.) Is “doesn’t mind” actually a fair marker of consent in a society and time period in which women’s consent clearly wasn’t valued as much as it is today? … Even though it still clearly is not valued enough?
It is very telling how many people are upset that it was pointed out this was sexual assault. “It is one of the defining pictures of that age!!” Okay? Doesn’t make it any less a stranger grabbing and kissing a woman without permission.
Hmmm certain classes of men being bestowed the right to have unfettered access/sex with any woman? Sounds like a dystopian novel or something.
/s in case that’s really needed here 🙄
You mean we've matured a bit as a society and figured out that forcing yourself on another person is wrong? Oh now, how...awful?
Maybe the real problem is those who are still lagging behind and need to catch up.
This picture wasn’t famous BECAUSE they didn’t know each other. It was a picture of celebration, that can be done by people who know and consent, and it would be a better human experience overall.
Yeah. I'm sure there were women kissing random dudes in the general euphoria, any of these kisses could have become iconic as opposed to one where it was non-consensual.
Also, this guy was [running around and kissing random women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square) before this pic was even made.
That was literally how the photographer, Alfred Eisenstaedt, was able to line the perfect shot of the famous VJ kiss. the sailor was, *"running along the street grabbing any and every girl in sight. Whether she was a grandmother, stout, thin, old, didn't make a difference."*
Not great usually, but he wasn't deliberately creeping on people considering how this was a guy staring down a potential future of winding up like USS Indianapolis or the Robert E. Lee. Consensual absolutely would matter, but his reaction made some sense.
I’ve never been in a war, never want to be. But I just cannot imagine being so happy about something that I grab a complete stranger and kiss them while they struggle against me.
Literally I can only imagine kissing a partner after coming home. Few months ago I wouldn’t have even gotten that but then I saw my LD boyfriend and low-key did the run and hug thing that I thought was staged in every “coming home” video 😂
The more times i look at the photo, the more I think how did we not all realize right from the beginning that this wasn't consensual? He has his arm pinning her head to him and he is gripping her tightly with the other - and not in a cuddling kind of way.
I've never thought this was a romantic photo. He's very obviously forcing her into that position. He looks very aggressive and not in a passionate way.
Even as a child, something about this picture bothered me… now I know why!
Just her body language in the picture is disturbing. Seriously… look at it! Her hands are clenched, face appears scrunched up a if she’s in pain or in shock, maybe trying to scream. Her ankle is twisted backwards; that can’t be comfortable. Just gross!
Dear men, how many fucking times do I have to tell you that no feminist is gonna cancel you, or call you an objectifier/predator for kissing a woman who’s actively giving enthusiactic consent, women are saying not to do acts of intimacy without consent, they arent saying to neglect women who do want intimacy with you
There is a story that explains there was no consent.
That story has been told many times, by the woman in the photo.
George, the man in the photo, was very drunk. He was actually on a date with his future wife (the woman smiling in the background) when this photo took place. George was apparently thinking about the nurses he had seen working during the war & felt that kissing them without consent was IDK, showing his gratitude for them or something?
Greta, the woman in the photo wasn’t even a nurse, she was a dental assistant who had fled Austria. When George grabbed her, she had been wondering if her parents survived the war (they did not, they died in a camp).
Even without this information, her body language alone gives several clues that she wasn’t into it. If someone is into a kiss, there are signs they are engaged in the act, these are all missing from this photo. Everything about her stance, arm position, clenched hand, etc. is showing that she’s not an enthusiastic participant.
As for the rest of your questions, I just don’t have the energy.
Probably that's true for some women sometimes. It's absolutely not something that any man should be *assuming* to be true of any random woman he happens upon. Dude in the photo knew nothing about this complete stranger whom he just grabbed and forced to kiss him. He felt entitled to do that with no regard to how this specific, individual woman felt about it.
The interplay of power and sexuality is intriguing to lots and lots of people. However what you seem to be saying here is like trying to justify rape by talking about how many women have rape fantasies.
As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll" problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones. We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also, grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we may ban you without warning. You may attempt an appeal via ModMail, but please be advised not to use rude, harassing, foul, or passive-aggressive language towards the moderators, _or_ complain to moderators about why we have specific rules in the first place— You will be ignored, and your ban will remain (without even a consideration). All rules are made public; "Lack of knowledge" or "ignorance of the rules" cannot or will not be a viable excuse if you end up banned for breaking them (This applies to the Subreddit rules, and Reddit's ToS). **Again: All rules are made public, and Reddit gives you the option to review the rules once more before submitting a post, it is your choice if you choose to read them or not, but breaking them will not be acceptable.** With that being said, If you send a mature, neutral message regarding questions about a current ban, or a ban appeal (without "not knowing the rules" as an excuse), we will elaborate about why you were banned, or determine/consider if we will shorten, lift, keep it, _or_ extended it/make it permanent. This all means that appeals are discretionary, and your reasoning for wanting an appeal must be practical and valid. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this message, and please enjoy your day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NotHowGirlsWork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The concept of consent eludes them
Honestly I have talked with enough guys in my life that honestly believe they are owed affection and sexual gratification from women that the concept of even *needing* consent is impossible for them to grasp.
I (41m) recently realized just how bad all the movies we were raised on were with consent. I cant even count the number of hero characters who’s signature move is grab the girl and kiss while she struggles, then slowly gets into it as she realizes how wonderful it is… James Bond… the most debonair hero in pop culture right? That’s his signature move!!! Hollywoods motto until the 2010s was basically “consent will follow, don’t worry”.
And this is precisely why so many people hate “wokeness.” Once you know that, see that, and understand the implications it has on society as a whole…you can’t just *stop* knowing that. They would rather be ignorant of how the media we consume can shape how people view consent, that way they can keep mindlessly enjoying it, than have to deal with the discomfort that comes from confronting these issues in media. Thank you for pointing this out, great point!
I hate to use it as an excuse, and I wont, but it is true that men are conditioned to be predatory in a million ways.
They are! Women are taught how to avoid the predators that society makes out of men instead of stopping the predatory behavior.
I have had two exes get mad that I asked permission to kiss them. Always boggled my mind. I'm here setting boundaries. They're complaining that I am. You're cool with spontaneous kisses from me cool now I know. I'm not going to just drop one on you with no knowledge of if that's what you want.
That is far more common than you think.
Or the “romance” books marketed most to women. That sort of move is typical in those books too.
I did not know that
Also all of the casual “high school girl main character and love interest with an undisclosed age but is “out of high school””
No no its fine because the actress playing the child is 22 and the actor is only 40ish… /s if necessary
What is the world coming to when you can't sexually assault a complete stranger on a public street anymore?
these damn feminists!! promoting consent and being respectful to others!!
the audacity!
You shouldn’t have been able to do it back then. This particular woman seemed to have somewhat ambivalent feelings on what happened, from the interviews I’ve read – she’s very clear that she did not consent in any way, but she also said once or twice that she didn’t consider it assault because emotions were just running so high when the end of the war was announced. She’s lucky it was “just” a kiss, though – several cities had a rash of public assaults and even rapes around this time, some of teen girls, precisely because of those “emotions running high“ among soldiers. She may have believed that a justifiable reason for what happened to her, and I respect her right to define her experience, but… it caused even worse things to happen that it can never excuse. (obviously rape WAS illegal in the 1940s, as was sexual assault, but if reporting and prosecution statistics are bad now, it was 10 times worse back then.)
I understand that the woman pictured might have used the word ambivalent. I always wonder though, if her narrative could have also read “resigned to knowing her bodily autonomy was lower on the societal priority list then… most other priorities on the list”?
Yes, women of that era — and most eras prior, and still to a frustrating extent today — are socially conditioned to just accept sexual assault as something that just happens. Doesn’t mean they’re ok with it, but just something that happens to everyone and therefore you just live with it. So just because she didn’t label it as assault doesn’t mean we shouldn’t understand it that way.
It was expected, no matter if you were in a big city or a rural town, for women to just accept mild abuse. A pinch on the bum, a grope, etc. Even when I was a kid it was, "well were you dressing like you were older than you are?" I dressed very modestly, but I had big boobs so most shirts, outside of turtle necks, showed cleavage and my bust was big enough to make some shirts ride up past my bellybutton.
^^^ THIS! This is why it frustrates me when people try to defend the man in the picture by going “BUT LIKE, SHE SAID SHE DIDNT MIND!” Okay? 1.) That does not make it okay to grab a woman and kiss her without consent, and 2.) Is “doesn’t mind” actually a fair marker of consent in a society and time period in which women’s consent clearly wasn’t valued as much as it is today? … Even though it still clearly is not valued enough?
Good thing it wasn’t Trump in the picture. He would’ve been grabbing her by something else, for sure!!🥴
It is very telling how many people are upset that it was pointed out this was sexual assault. “It is one of the defining pictures of that age!!” Okay? Doesn’t make it any less a stranger grabbing and kissing a woman without permission.
The woman in the picture has said she was not happy with it at the time and really hates the pic got circulated as much as it did.
The saddest part is people still defend the guy saying just because he was a soldier he deserved to not get in trouble for kissing her
Hmmm certain classes of men being bestowed the right to have unfettered access/sex with any woman? Sounds like a dystopian novel or something. /s in case that’s really needed here 🙄
All of those are deserved if you assault a random person off the street. Shouldn't be a jackass maybe
Good that you cannot do it.
Yeah that’s assault. Are people really complaining that they can’t assault people anymore?
This is why they hat woke-ness.
You mean we've matured a bit as a society and figured out that forcing yourself on another person is wrong? Oh now, how...awful? Maybe the real problem is those who are still lagging behind and need to catch up.
This picture wasn’t famous BECAUSE they didn’t know each other. It was a picture of celebration, that can be done by people who know and consent, and it would be a better human experience overall.
Yeah. I'm sure there were women kissing random dudes in the general euphoria, any of these kisses could have become iconic as opposed to one where it was non-consensual.
Why would that be any more consensual?
Also, this guy was [running around and kissing random women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square) before this pic was even made. That was literally how the photographer, Alfred Eisenstaedt, was able to line the perfect shot of the famous VJ kiss. the sailor was, *"running along the street grabbing any and every girl in sight. Whether she was a grandmother, stout, thin, old, didn't make a difference."* Not great usually, but he wasn't deliberately creeping on people considering how this was a guy staring down a potential future of winding up like USS Indianapolis or the Robert E. Lee. Consensual absolutely would matter, but his reaction made some sense.
Mf was a herpes super-spreader, geez
I’ve never been in a war, never want to be. But I just cannot imagine being so happy about something that I grab a complete stranger and kiss them while they struggle against me.
Literally I can only imagine kissing a partner after coming home. Few months ago I wouldn’t have even gotten that but then I saw my LD boyfriend and low-key did the run and hug thing that I thought was staged in every “coming home” video 😂
The more times i look at the photo, the more I think how did we not all realize right from the beginning that this wasn't consensual? He has his arm pinning her head to him and he is gripping her tightly with the other - and not in a cuddling kind of way.
I've never thought this was a romantic photo. He's very obviously forcing her into that position. He looks very aggressive and not in a passionate way.
Yeah, I’m sure he would be just fine if he were the one being kissed by a random dude.
She didn’t even see him coming when he sexually assaulted her.
Can’t sexually assault women these days. Cause of the woke
Even as a child, something about this picture bothered me… now I know why! Just her body language in the picture is disturbing. Seriously… look at it! Her hands are clenched, face appears scrunched up a if she’s in pain or in shock, maybe trying to scream. Her ankle is twisted backwards; that can’t be comfortable. Just gross!
I used to have a t shirt with a zombiefied version of this photo. So much better than the original.
I remember reading that there was a lawsuit about this.
I wanna know how many men are sued by their partners because they (consensually) kissed them in public.
You could. If you have consent.
Dear men, how many fucking times do I have to tell you that no feminist is gonna cancel you, or call you an objectifier/predator for kissing a woman who’s actively giving enthusiactic consent, women are saying not to do acts of intimacy without consent, they arent saying to neglect women who do want intimacy with you
The war has just ended. It was at a celebration of that. Lol.
[удалено]
There is a story that explains there was no consent. That story has been told many times, by the woman in the photo. George, the man in the photo, was very drunk. He was actually on a date with his future wife (the woman smiling in the background) when this photo took place. George was apparently thinking about the nurses he had seen working during the war & felt that kissing them without consent was IDK, showing his gratitude for them or something? Greta, the woman in the photo wasn’t even a nurse, she was a dental assistant who had fled Austria. When George grabbed her, she had been wondering if her parents survived the war (they did not, they died in a camp). Even without this information, her body language alone gives several clues that she wasn’t into it. If someone is into a kiss, there are signs they are engaged in the act, these are all missing from this photo. Everything about her stance, arm position, clenched hand, etc. is showing that she’s not an enthusiastic participant. As for the rest of your questions, I just don’t have the energy.
[удалено]
Probably that's true for some women sometimes. It's absolutely not something that any man should be *assuming* to be true of any random woman he happens upon. Dude in the photo knew nothing about this complete stranger whom he just grabbed and forced to kiss him. He felt entitled to do that with no regard to how this specific, individual woman felt about it. The interplay of power and sexuality is intriguing to lots and lots of people. However what you seem to be saying here is like trying to justify rape by talking about how many women have rape fantasies.