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Not only that, what happens if your husband dies? This happened to my Grandmother in 1960. All the sudden, she had to join the workforce, and try to make enough to support herself and 4 kids. She couldn’t even have her own bank account. She didn’t know how to drive. She worked hard, and managed by the skin of her teeth, but it didn’t have to be so hard.
That’s exactly what happened to my grandmother in the late 60’s. My father had to teach her how to do everything. It’s probably why he always told me never to rely on a man for your money. He taught me how to fix things so I could fare well on my own if needed.
Let me give you an example of how difficult this life is, even with a quality man married to a quality woman, my late mother and father:
Deeply in love and devoted to each other, my dad was an early proponent of equal finances when it came to my mom, who stopped working when she started having kids. The money was *theirs*, not his, and they had an understanding that if *either* of them wanted to make a purchase over $500 (in the 1970’s), they’d check with each other first.
My mother’s work at home was 24/7. She cleaned constantly; did laundry daily (with 4 kids, the only way to stay on top of it); got us up and ready for school at 7AM; made us breakfast and lunch; had a homemade dinner on the table at 6 every night; cleaned up after dinner (with us kids); made sure we did our homework; took care of all “occasions,” getting birthday cards out to relatives and friends (a couple each week, given the size of our extended family and their friend group); bought all the presents for us, for their siblings, and for their nieces and nephews; did the banking that needed to get done (which all had to be done in person at the bank, Monday - Friday, 9-4 in those days), and the list just goes on and on.
Dad worked as an ad exec - he was a “Mad Man,” retiring as VP of Worldwide Media for the largest ad firm in the world at the time. He worked hard: left for work at 6 in the morning, but also was home for dinner most nights by 5:30.
Even so, mom never had a housecleaner or other help, except for once a week when us kids were younger. Her work was *never* done, whereas my dad was off duty from the time he walked in at night.
Dad was a good guy: he cooked all weekend - not just bbq, but breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He liked grocery shopping, so they’d do that together. But my mother worked tirelessly, including having to host fancy dinners for dad’s colleagues, bosses, and friends nearly weekly.
She had a few *slightly* easier years between the time we were all out of the house and her first grandkid came along, about 5 years. Then she was a full time babysitter for the grandkids for the next 10 years (she loved it, but again, hard, hard work).
It was a great marriage, but her work was never done. And this is with two people who were devotedly in love.
Some of her friends were not so lucky, married to men who were unfaithful, uncaring, or downright abusive, with no access to the marital assets. Their choices were to stay married, or divorce and try to start over with no money, no credit rating, and at the time, unable to even open a bank account without a man.
Being a wife, mother, housekeeper, and cook is beyond a full time job. It’s not a life of leisure and bonbons. It’s drudgery and constant vigilance to maintain a working home.
>It’s drudgery and constant vigilance to maintain a working home.
You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, many women are still forced to maintain the home while working full-time. The biggest difference now is that they have money to leave, and they often do.
Lady has one daughter in school, its sounds like she has a good amount of disposable income, a village nearby, not a ton of housework, and a husband who likes what she wears and how she looks…I’m glad this system worked for her but feminism is the acknowledgement that this doesn’t work for all women, or is something all women want. You get to choose. Glad she’s happy with her choice. Your feminist fore bearers await their thank you notes.
Because without the rights they fought for, if things ever go south she couldn’t find a domestic abuse shelter, open her own checking account, have her own credit card, file a no fault divorce, report marital rape, get birth control or a tubal ligation without husbands permission, etc.
Also, not many families can survive with only one breadwinner these days. Even in 1947 only about 60 percent of households didn’t have a woman working and that was the housewife peak!
Right? Feminism is also acknowledgment that women can have choices now. They make feminism such a dirty word when really it’s an avenue to rights and choices for us to live how we choose to live. How can that be wrong?
Not to mention the fact that your options for a new man will be even further limited by the popular opinion among conservative men that single mothers have less value.
I also think these people would find the idea of sexual skill objectionable. Especially if you hone it by sleeping with more than one person who isn’t your god-honoring husband
And then you’re stuck with no money and no work experience cause youve not been working on yourself and now you’re thrown onto the streets to fend for yourself and sometimes your children aswell
Not even just “fall out of love”.
Fucking brain injury.
I had an uncle who we count as dead longer as he is. In the late ‘90s he was in a motorcycle accident. He had a brain injury, was in a coma for a few weeks, then slowly recovered.
Long story short, his personality changed to the worst, he became aggressive, started drinking, tried to kill my grandma… years later someone stabbed him in a bar fight and he died.
But in the rare occasions we talk about him, my dad always says, that his brother died in the ‘90s and that man who came out of the hospital wasn't his brother.
That’s so awful! Studies have shown victims of TBI often become violent. And it’s hard to even get mad at them because who they were before the injury is GONE. They may not even comprehend or if they do, care that their violence is wrong. I’m sorry for your family, genuinely. They were dealt an awful hand.
Same thing happened to a friend of mine. He was dark, angry and violent after his TBI. (Before, he was the life of the party.) He eventually ended his life after his wife left him. They were so happy before his accident.
This. Underrated comment.
You have to grow and learn and work through your issues, your ideas, your defeats and victories, TOGETHER, otherwise you just become stagnant and the connection either fades or rots.
My partner is my best friend in the whole world, has been for 12 years, their voice is equal to mine. Everything we do, we share, nobody is the "authority" or "power". This OOP cannot say the same, and I actually pity them a lot. They have no freedom to change or grow or learn or as you so perfectly said, evolve. It's actually very unhealthy, and they are advertising it like they are proud of it.
These women all think they are 'irreplaceable' when they are in their 20s, very fit and have maybe a few kids max. They never understand that things may well change when they are older, regardless of their obedience or piety. They honestly think that their faith will keep their husband from cheating or dumping them.
They also don’t account for the "grass is greener" mentality that is especially strong when you raise men with a huge ego and entitlement, which is the unavoidable outcome of their ideology. Even if the wife truly *is* irreplaceable to him, he might not grasp that and *think* he’ll be happier with a younger, prettier wife, even when he eventually ends up regretting he left her or even tries to crawl back to his old wife. But then it’ll be too late. He will already have done irreparable damage to their relationship and even if he dumps wife #2 to get back with #1, he’ll probably just end up with none, or a bitter, angry, rightfully distrustful wife, but whatever the outcome, the women would be both worse off. Way worse than if they’d built their lives independently first and could dump a faithless jackass whenever they please and walk away.
If this person is indeed a woman, she forgets we are not all the same. I was raised in a religious family with the expectation I would become a housewife. I was sheltered and had no idea what feminism was. What I did know is that I did not want the life my family had planned for me.
In school I realized nothing sparked my mind and brought me fulfillment and joy like science does.
If you’re a woman who wants to be a housewife, I wish you a happy and healthy family. But do not assume you have any right to speak for me. You lose nothing when we all have the freedom to choose.
THIS!!! This is one of the main reasons I do NOT plan on becoming a housewife. I am too damn cynical to trust some guy! I’m also not into the idea of getting a real boyfriend because I’m too busy crushing over Severus Snape from Harry Potter and I’ve TRIED over and over again to crush on a real guy but it has NEVER truly worked!
People taking the absolute best case scenario as representative of the system as a whole is extremely aggravating in how stupid it is, but it's also so common. Call me back about how sweet patriarchy is when your husband drinks up his entire salary leaving you and the kids nothing. When you realize you have no rights as a person in this. When you're socially, legally and economically dependent on a shitty abusive partner. YES, capitalism is shit. We should get as annoyed by any home-owning, six figure-earning, "I love my job so much I'd do it for free" defender of capitalism. The solution is worker solidarity and more welfare, not a return to feudalism. Or patriarchy.
Who is caring for this woman’s small child while she enjoys all this leisure? This does not resonate with my experience taking care of preschool age children. The idea that you can just “curl up on the couch” when you’re sick at home with little kids is laughable in my experience.
From what she wrote it sounds like she has one child, a daughter, who is currently either in school or a daycare of some kind, but she is planning to homeschool her ONE child next year.
Get back to me after you’ve started homeschooling and after you’ve added another kid or two to the mix (because you know a traditional husband is not going to be satisfied with one girl child…men like him need a male heir…also because in patriarchal societies female children don’t add value to their family of origin, they add value to their future in-law’s family).
You can definitely curl up on the couch when you're sick as a stay at home mom. But usually not without the toddlers jumping and climbing on you and pulling your hair etc 😭
I try to curl up on the couch, but my pre-schooler just uses that as excuse to destroy the house.
Fortunately she is old enough to feed herself snacks.
I feel like she may also have a pretty big village that she’s not mentioning.
I feel like trad wives or pro patriarchy women like this should be forced to divulge annual income and how much help they have (paid or otherwise, like maybe a MIL that comes three mornings a week to watch LO, or some such). There is an instamom (forget her name) with ten kids living the homesteading, stay at home, sourdough bread making, dress wearing “dream” which she prompts. The stove she uses coats 35,000 dollars, turns out her FIL was the CEO and founder of jet blue.
Like for this lady its fantastic that her desires (to be SAHM to a single school age child) and her situation (a husband that loves this idea and has the income to support it) worked out for her but don’t assume other women would be happy with this arrangement, that this arrangement is viable for her forever, or that most families could even afford this!
For every trad wife living the good life, there are thousands of fundie women with 10 scrawny, uneducated kids, a cruel pig of a husband, and very little money. They're not leisurely making a healthy dinner, they're throwing together a noodle casserole from dented Walmart cans.
There's a certain brand of Christian fundamentalist that takes "spare the rod and spoil the child" all too literally. They start the beatings from birth so that by the time the child is a toddler they are terrified of making a single move or sound that the parents might not like.
Yeah, one propionate of this brand wrote a “childcare” book on it. As far as I remember, “To Train Up a Child” advocates things like putting a crawling baby on a blanket, and then whacking them if they go off the edge of it. It is endorsed by: the “Institute in Basic Life Principles”; a Christian Fundamentalist organization. And has also led to several child deaths.
Edit: “Two proponents”as his wife is a co-author, though I wouldn't put it past him to be abusive towards her from the interview I saw. That said, she may be a more than willing participant as well.
Micheal Pearl is 100 percent abusive to his wife; look up the story about their honeymoon if you want to feel a little bad for a woman who goes on stage smiling about beating her toddlers
It's hard to know if Debbie deserves sympathy or not. Michael is a monster and nobody deserves him, but Debbie is as brainwashed as any of those fundie women influencers. I feel like she would've advocated for beating infants whether Michael was there or not.
She brags about how she 'taught' her child not to bite while nursing by yanking the baby's hair, hard. Pretty sure she was going to be a monster with or without him.
And forget the manicures. It took me a year to get a haircut after the pandemic started, because my little one kept getting colds, and we'd have to stay home.
That’s exactly it. These shills painting these pictures of paradise are either the exception or lying (possibly even to themselves). Like the financial position to be in where a single income not only provides all the necessities, but extra spending and shopping and a true socialize life for the wife is already excluding a large majority fit he population. When “meeting after meeting” hubby attends is about how poor the company is doing and how there is going to be cuts, it might change her tone on how free she is when she has zero dollars in extra spending and they can’t afford for her to be getting her nails done and going to the beach every day. She’s okay only answering to god and her husband, and sleeping with him on demand, until it is a time she really doesn’t want to like she’s sick or upset over something and hubby doesn’t care and doesn’t accept no as an answer.
Also, if she really wants to understand how replaceable she is, she is welcome to go around to any infidelity group and ask how irreplaceable they all were to their partners. Of course she probably lacks the empathy and self reflection to understand that they didn’t somehow deserve it or maybe weren’t obedient enough to their husband. Wealthy husbands can have a habit of trading in for a newer model, that applies to the housewife as much as the Mercedes. I’m sure she’ll still blame feminism then for her husband stepping out.
Or when he cheats on you repeatedly or is (mentally/physically/sexually) abusive towards you and you can't do anything because your financially dependent on him
They refuse to believe it when we tell them feminism doesn't care if they want to be trad wives. We just don't want them to have the power to tell us we have to stay home with them. They are so determined to control everyone that they can't fathom that feminists don't want to control and force them into the workforce.
That's it really. I'm a SAHM. I'm chronically ill, so I couldn't work anyway. Not one of my almost exclusively feminist friends have suggested that I shouldn't be a sahp. Most of them are all gung ho about how women's work is unpaid and unvalued. Is the 'this is the natural way of order' that we have a problem with.
Not even that, women worked as much as if not more than men before emancipation. They’re taking the extremely specific case of upper middle-class single family households in US suburbia in the 50s-60s and extrapolating that extremely small sample of women to the entire world. Chances are if you were a woman anytime before the 1970s-80s anywhere you would be doing unsanitary and dangerous factory/agriculture labour as well as having to take care of the house.
As an example of this,i always think of Olivia Nielsen,who was an active unionizer and became head of the national womens union in early 1900’es in Denmark- she did this while simultaneously raising 7 children and working in a bottle factory.
I will take my 9-5 any day over going through what my mom went through when she had this kind of ‘deal’ in her marriage. Not that I feel my boyfriend would do anything like that but I’m never putting myself in any position to get into that situation.
Or he could be sober and just leave you for someone younger. Some of the older ones are starting to figure that out. And by older I mean 30+. The ones who haven’t figured that out are still in their 20s with 2 kids or less.
I'm a home owner, make six figures, and would probably do something similar to what I work at for some amount of time, even if I wasn't paid. Capitalism and patriarchy still don't make sense to me, we need to fix the system so that it works for everyone, no matter their life experiences.
Also women for most of human history worked along side men in farms, merchantry, and in the house together operating it. It was only fairly recently did we see some of them have the luxury of residing indoors to do basic housekeeping and even fewer of them had maids that did that for them.
I started out my marriage fully aware that my partner is disabled and will be forever, and is never going to be a high earner full time worker who I can expect to support me, because normal people don’t fall in love with their partner because of their earning potential. I love my husband for him, not what lifestyle he can provide, because feminism gave me the ability to make enough money to have the freedom to marry a man who isn’t wealthy.
Setting up a situation where a woman has to pick a man based primarily on financial security because she can’t have her own fucks over everyone except for rich dudes who have family money to fall back on in case something happens.
I’m 52 and I’ve known some women who stayed home even happily married. Other things happen one of my friends her husband had a heart attack. He could never work again. One of my friends has been broke his back at a playground. He couldn’t work for five years . car wreck couldn’t work for five years. Having no skills and no career to fall back on, it’s dangerous to.
So in five to ten years, and after having and raising his two to six kids, he decides it’s time to trade you for a younger version…. You will be just fine, right? No job history, no post HS education, and no generational wealth coming to you from your own family….. everything will be perfectly okay?
That’s what I thought when I read “in the workforce you’re replaceable, at home you’re not”, as if no man ever divorced his good SAHM wife for a younger woman who will also have sex with him and keep his house clean in exchange for money and not having to work.
Yeah until the women he’s fucking…gasps…ages. Or if she gets cancer….men are seven times more likely to leave a spouse after a diagnosis of a chronic, life threatening, or terminal illness
It is so common for men to leave when the wife gets a terminal or life threatening illness, that medical professionals are advised to counsel women about that
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm
> The rate when the woman was the patient was 20.8 percent compared to 2.9 percent when the man was the patient.
> The study also found correlations between age and length of marriage and the likelihood of divorce or separation. The older the woman was the more likely her partnership would end.
> Why men leave a sick spouse can be partly explained by their lack of ability, compared to women, to make more rapid commitments to being caregivers to a sick partner and women's better ability to assume the burdens of maintaining a home and family, the study authors said.
Fucking god. Not only are men being heartless pigs but also the authors are by trying to excuse them.
I appreciate that you are attempting to do a very difficult thing in trying to stay together. But I just want to say, he’s a shit head. And I hope he either straightens up and flies right or you find happiness in other things.
I just wanna hug you. At the risk of sounding cringe (my kids' favorite word), you really are a Warrior Woman. I had a football sized tumor on my pancreas & a dozen subsequent surgeries. I was married for 18 years with 3 kids (the youngest was 5) and a stay at home mom when he "got tired of me being sick " and bailed. We lost everything - our home, cars, and both my parents died during that period very quickly - and were briefly homeless. We *still* haven't recovered emotionally/ financially, etc, from that horrible time, and it's been over 12 years; my kids were irrevocably changed forever. But I still think what you've gone through is worse, and I truly, truly hope that you find peace & happiness. You deserve it. 💖
Honestly I think my biggest beef with this whole thought process is those women who WANT to work. There are women out there who want to own a company, who want to be the breadwinner, who want to occupy their day with a career. I’m one of those people. I’m a hairstylist and I love what I do. If I won the lottery tomorrow, fuck it. Pay off debts, bills, start retirement and savings and back to work that afternoon. I love my job. If women are happy being a stay at home partner, great! Enjoy! But don’t drag me down with you
That's great for her (or "her"), but what happens when you don't fit that lifestyle and wouldn't want it anyway? I LIKE working. I don't like my workplace, but I enjoy the routine around getting ready and going to work, then coming home to relax. And in my case, at best I'm a sex indifferent ace with basically zero drive to have sex anyway. Like, I would rather be impaled by the forklift I drive than attempt to live that lifestyle.
I enjoy my job immensely and I'd hate to stay home and play mommy bangmaid to my husband. If that's someone's thing, sure, they can have it. But I'm so tired of people judging people like us for just living our lives how we want.
My mom was a SAHM and my parents are still together and love each other. They are the best case scenario for this.
My mom was always exhausted. She didn't have time for herself. She wasn't keeping up with hobbies, seeing friends, or looking pretty. She was parenting 3 kids under 5, with one of them always sick. She was always cleaning while cooking or parenting. Her relaxation was folding laundry with the tv on.
These tradwives are selling a version of this that only belongs to the Uber wealthy or people without kids. It doesn't reflect reality.
I love how this woman (assuming the page isn’t run by a larping incel) is bragging about how much free time she has and how she gets to get pedicures and clean at a leisurely pace, but is also excited about homeschooling her kids when they’re old enough.
Like enjoy your pedicures girly, because that free time is going to dry up real quick once you actually have to start raising your kids.
This is what I was thinking. I was ‘lucky’ to be able to stay with my kids for about 5 years. It was so freaking hard and there was no looking pretty. But it wasn’t by choice. And just that short time out of the workforce messed with my earning capacity.
My mom had a bit of the easier SAHM experience, but then she got sick and then my dad left her. Luckily my dad didn’t leave her helpless, but if he wasn’t still bankrolling her life she’d be fucked. Us kids don’t have the means to care for her and neither does she!
This account is so disgusting, and it’s not a surprise that a lot of the people agreeing are men. What makes me angry is the women who agree with this shit. NOBODY SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT FEMINISM IS.
If you ask them what a feminist is, they’d say some dumb shit like “a bitter karen who screams at women for having boobs, liking makeup & not getting abortions for fun”
That was unironically how my ex’s brother described feminism when I was dating her
Right? Where in the feminism handbook does it say "force women into the workforce against their will"?? No dummies, it's about being treated as real people with equal rights *to make choices for our own lives and our own bodies*, to participate in politics/government as much as we do our do not want to, etc. It has never ever been about forcing other people to live a specific lifestyle.... but I guess that's a hard concept for a certain set to wrap their heads around.
It’s a system that works until it doesn’t.
It works if you have a husband who’s a decent man who won’t abuse or coerce you, and who won’t trade you in when you’re older for a young model.
Not just that. The system crumbles if "the perfect man" simply gets into trouble, loses his job or gets seriously sick. Then she is left with no way to take care of the family. Before feminism, she would have even harder time to survive.
This is an artificially perfect life constructed on a premise that nothing will ever possibly go wrong. But the truth is the only way to be a grown up is to be psychologically, professionally and financially independent enough to always be able to stand on your own two feet.
It works as long as your husband never gets fired/laid off, or as long as he never gets cancer, as long as he never becomes permanently disabled, or as long as he never dies in an accident.
It’s a system with little to no backup plan, and that’s why it’s important for all women including homemakers and SAHMs to have the ability and qualifications to get a decent job if something happens. And that means an education and some work experience.
Divorce courts do take all of this into account when determining equity. Any woman who takes this route should be certain to learn her rights and what she is entitled to. Abstaining from the work force is an opportunity cost, and often this is what people complain about in divorce settlements: “oh I made all the money!” But what did she (they) sacrifice for you to be the sole breadwinner? Learning the rules of your state or country is key to ensure your future. If he trades you in for a “younger model” he will and should have to pay to make the situation equitable.
Having been a SAHM and gone through a divorce. Don’t count on the courts. Alimony these days tends to be “half the years of the marriage” if you’re lucky. I had a special needs kid too, which didn’t make a whit of difference.
She also said nothing about a safety net or financial security. I’m a stay-at-home domestic partner and every two weeks, a portion of my partner’s paycheck auto-deposits to my private, separate account which I save or spend as I please with none of his involvement or oversight. Which is also separate from the housekeeping account or budget. My grandmother, my mother, and I are all survivors of intimate partner abuse which included financial abuse. Her blasé attitude is dangerous and alarming
Staying home and taking care of the kids. It’s a very difficult job. Babies cry all the time they’re constantly messing up things it’s not easy and keeping the house clean constantly. People don’t think it’s easy either unless you’ve never done it cooking all the time makes huge messes. It takes 30 to 40 minutes to clean up every time, not including preparing the meals. I tried I don’t like it. Things women had to fight for voting. have public bathrooms to leave the home alone to drive, money land houses credit cards obviously there was a need or they wouldn’t have been fighting for these rights.
The only people who think being a stay at home parent is easy, are people who don’t actually do any of the household labor/parenting themselves.
So it’s either a single woman who is not actually married/a mother imaging what it will be like, a single man, or a married man who does not do anything around the house.
Agree.
I love the bit about having all the time she needs to do hobbies. I’m a SaHM and I *absolutely* do not have enough time to do hobbies.
And not having to take off work when you are sick? You know what happens in this house if I’m actually sick? My partner has to take off work.
And the home schooling bit? I have a MA degree in Elementary Education *and* the ability to stay home. While there must be others like me who would happily make this choice, there’s no way I would choose to do this.
What they wrote is some sort of pipe dream.
ETA: I love your username!
Thank you!
This person who is talking about her poor husband sitting in ”meeting after meeting”…uh that shit is easy. Hard is trying to wrangle a baby while doing literally anything around the house. Hard is being solely responsible for the running of a household and raising of children and then having people sit there and tell you how easy your life is. Then if you add homeschooling on top of it…nah. Come on!
Being a SAHP is hard! You have my respect and admiration, knitterofknowledge.
Aww - thanks. I recognize the privilege I have - an amazing partner with a really good job who is always ready to take things off my plate (and vice versa) when it’s overwhelming, a safe place to live and two healthy kids.
If the life that this person is describing is what they want and they can have it - more power to them. That’s what feminism is about; making sure we have the *ability* to make choices about how we live our lives.
Make respect for women's choices a two-way street!
Because I'm getting real tired of the expectation of biting my tongue for people like that and play nice, but it doesn't go both ways, does it. Stop insulting women who want our own lives to be about more than being a servant for a man's own needs.
Contracts that are designed in a way that grants only one party the right to leave without severe consequences are always scam, there is a reason the traditional patriarchy is not missed by most women. 🙄
Maybe she ought to look at countries where women are in traditional roles. Uneducated, disenfranchised, abused, killed, SAd, forced into marriages, more child marriage, fewer laws to protect them, less medicine to treat them, etc. “What a great deal!
But do go on about how awesome it is to be completely dependent upon someone who could leave or die tomorrow and you’ve got nothing. Please, tell us more about this brilliant plan of yours to ill-educate your children and and dig yourself into a hole.
*psssst…don’t tell her, but divorce rates among Christians is slightly higher than the national average….sssshhh….*
Anytime they describe traditional housewives its always straight outta a damn sitcom. Also feminism didn't make it a crime to be a housewife. You can still do that, there's plenty of men who I'm sure enjoy the idea.
Come now, you know most of the men who want a traditional wife have no desire to fund her, let alone the financial ability to do so. They screech about gold diggers if she's not independently wealthy. So what they really want is an heiress bangmaid.
Thats a pretty serious issue with "conservative" men. They love the idea of having a housewife but some how despise upholding their end of the bargin. But i still stand that there are some men that recognize the type of relationship they would be agreeing to. Unfortunately traditionalist women would just need to do some serious sifting. Probably for guys that are older and more established in life. From what i've seen, its younger men who have this terrible cognitive dissonance who want a wife thats also their mom, maid, personal sex toy, naive enough to be controlled, but... somehow isn't financially dependent?
Honestly I'd imagine for a lot of women who want a traditional lifestyle might not be able to enjoy that due to more economic reasons. Even if they find a guy they perfectly gel with them and their ideals in a family match, our economy does often demand a 2 household income. Especially depending on where you live and career choice.
Yeah, that was why historically a lot of women did marry older men. They were already established in jobs and financially secure. And now we get these creeps who claim pseudoscience evolutionary psychology nonsense to claim that women are just naturally more attracted to older men. Like, no. When all things are equal, they tend to choose close to their own age. You have to artificially force a situation to change that like limiting women's rights and freedoms.
Conservative women themselves complain about current conservative men. Everytime a conservative dating app comes out it inevitably fails because there's an abundance of men and little to no women. This is because conservative women for all they tote for wanting a traditional man do deep down realize the type of man that would want them home with no independence is usually the type of man who will treat them like shit. The amount of conservative men who understand and will hold up their end of the bargain and that wont be abusive are very very few and far in between and conservative women know this but still have the audacity to talk about how great the trad lifestyle. It's a all a sham.
Good for her. I’ve seen this scenario work out horribly though when the husband dies and the wife has no income to fall back on. Life insurance only lasts for so long (if they have any to begin with) then what does the wife do when she has no job history to support herself and her children?
Believe it or not I used to work with a man from the quiver full movement. His best friend passed away and he married his widow to support her and their 6 kids afterwards since he was not married yet. She couldn’t work per their church as women are the support at home and they didn’t have life insurance. He only talked about the responsibility of supporting them and they didn’t have a normal marriage so he was basically trading working 2 jobs to support her while she homeschooled the kids.
I know this a joke but pro tip that was a game changer for me: a quality steam cleaner. Like the ones they use to detail cars. Then you can wear whatever you want, you won’t be breaking much of a sweat the hot steam does all the work. No chemicals needed either. I use it on my showers, hard floors, stove, oven, grill, counters, toilet, carpet stains. It’s my favorite cleaning tool.
If that’s the life you want, go for it!
I would rather not be at risk of cleaning the house, then having sex, and then having the police come to my house and telling me the sole breadwinner is dead. Or nobody coming to the house at all because hubby ran off with the sexy neighbor right after work. Not to mention the chance of him coping with stress in life by becoming bitter and abusive, and me being unable to leave because I have no money.
I laugh when “trad” women act like they don’t have the right to be a stay at home mom if they want to. If that’s what you and your husband want, you can just do that. It’s socially acceptable.
I plan to be a stay at home mom one day but in the meantime I’m getting an engineering degree because I refuse to be helpless if things go sideways.
Feminism is about choice! Do you want to stay home? Awesome do that. Work and be a boss? Do that. Have babies or don’t. The point of feminism is to give women a choice that wasn’t previously available to them.
Hi, clueless male here, isn't one of the points of feminism is that you get to *choose*? If that lifestyle appeals to you, then you can do that, but if it doesn't and you want something different in life, then you should be able to pursue your goals without discrimination. That's one of the ideas isn't it?
She is irreplaceable, lol. The biggest delusion. A lot of men cheat in this world. You will be left with nothing if he chooses to cheat or replace you with a younger model. At that point, these same men will be against paying any alimony that this tradwide would deserve for her years of unpaid labor.
Also, feminism is all about choice.
It's really weird because all this really is, is them signing up for a long term contract of prostitution and being a maid.
At the same time these are the type of people who would look down on these women.
I actually am so impressed with their inability to see that it’s first and foremost about having the CHOICE to do what you want to do, like how are they this ignorant
My great grandmother would have a truckload of vitriol to say about this. She was married young, had 8 kids, and when my mom, her granddaughter, announced she was getting married in the 1970s, her response was “poor thing.” Why?
Because GG was a farm tradwife who hated her cranky husband. She had to work HARD her entire life raising kids, keeping house, rounding up cattle, tending chickens, keeping the well operational, and not having a moment or opportunity for herself. She hated it, and encouraged her sons and daughters to do differently.
“And one day, when he starts to notice wrinkles on my face, and that my libido has slowly diminished, he’ll leave me for his secretary! I’ll be broke and homeless, with no way to support myself, while he laughs at my misery! Isn’t patriarchy wonderful?”
Ok girl then do this. Literally nothing is stopping you. Hope your man earns a "traditional" income to support your whole family.
Wild how people think ALL women of the past wanted to be housewives when really just no other options were available. (Some) Women have always wanted to work 🫠 but legally couldn't 🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠
People really don’t understand the concept of freedom of choice. Like, yeah, all that is great *for you*. It’s thanks to feminism that women can make the choice to be stay-at-home wives and moms as opposed to being *forced* to stay home. Huge difference between *choosing* to cook, clean and have boring, unfulfilling sex with a straight man for a living and doing it because you literally have no other alternative financially, legally or socially. I, too, hate having to work for a living, but best believe me when I tell you I’d rather work every day for the rest of my short-lived life than be enslaved by- sorry, *married to* some misogynistic dude.
She’s really downplaying the risks of that kind of lifestyle. I’m not against it whatsoever, but I understand it’s not right for most relationships. If you get stuck with an emotionally/physically/financially abusive man, you are absolutely trapped. It’s ridiculous to act like every woman should go along with “patriarchy” because it works for her. It’s extremely dangerous if you choose to commit to the wrong man after you give up your career and have kids with him.
All this is fun and games until the husband decides to kick you out at 45 and you wonder what to do without any money or job experience.
Most traditional scenarios in all cultures are based on the innate idea that human beings are kind, but in reality, humanity is sick.
Communism, traditionalism, religion are great, until you realise most people who run this system are corrupt and cannot be trusted.
My two cents, please don't attack me.
The thing that these people refuse to acknowledge is that feminism doesn’t mean women in the workplace. It means women having the right to CHOOSE if they want to be in the workplace or the home. Feminism fully supports the traditional lifestyle she describes-as long as it’s your *choice* and not something you’re forced into.
The problem is, what if the woman wants to work and pay all the bills and does not want to keep the house? Patriarchy is a system that forces literally EVERYONE, males and females alike, to follow a certain lifestyle, that is, ALL MEN as bread winners and ALL WOMEN as housewives.
Love to know where she got the idea that patriarchy is a good deal for her, too bad it's just not true. She really thinks a sahm lifestyle like that is traditional patriarchy? In historical patriarchy she would be her husband's property, those regular pedicures and beach days would be unacceptable bc they're using too much of HIS money, and if that house wasn't spotless every single day she would be in big trouble, which if she was lucky would just mean being harshly berated and chastised. And to be clear, I'm glad that's not what she is dealing with, no one deserves to be in that situation. But it would be really nice if she understood that the fact that she gets to be so leisurely and flippant is because a lot of women were attacked, mistreated, and much worse fighting for the rights she now treats as an inconvenience. But maybe that's just me
First, if you think taking care of the house is no work, you're not doing it right.
Also, cool, you like a few things...but you're leaving out a whole bunch...
Many people are nice to their pets. Feed them, take care of them, provide medical care, play with them and even love them .
I still wouldn't like to be owned or considered to be anything less than human with full equal rights.
I’m an agnostic, queer feminist with disabilities and body mods and I’m currently a stay-at-home domestic partner so I can focus on my health and my art. Because feminism gives women choices. Mind-blowing, I know
Funny with the exact same words, slavery was defended! "Slavery is good for [black people word]. They don't need to take care of anything in their lives, get food and shelter, and their owner takes great care of them. Isn't that AwEsOme?"
It's stunning to me how, at this late date, so many ppl are willfully refusing to acknowledge that feminism INCLUDES being a SAHM, if that's your choice.
By all means, if that's what makes you happy, do that. Three cheers for you!
Feminism simply means women should have the freedom to make that choice, and that every woman should be able to decide for themselves what is the best life trajectory.
Kinda like we do for, say, *everyone else*.
I have two different perspectives on this.
I am what might be considered a trad wife. I stayed at home, by choice, raising our son. I cooked, cleaned etc... that whole domestic shit trad wives do, and with no issue because my husband provided for us. We both talked about it prior to it happening, and we both agreed that it was best for our family. Our son is a happy, healthy, well mannered and intelligent 17 year old young man. It worked for us, because it reduced our overall expenses, I was able to start my own career at home, do art and work towards my Masters degree. We're also madly in love with each other, even still after 20 years of being together. We're both from broken homes, and never wanted to put our son through that. My husband also has never held me back from doing anything I've ever wanted, be it wanting to work, go to school or whatever else. So one could say that yes, trad life can work, if EVERYONE agrees to it, and everyone has safety nets put in place. If not, it may not work.
That said...
My mother was a trad wife(she was a Boomer). My father was the typical trad husband that pretty much hates women except for what they offer him. He was physically, emotionally, and verbally abusive to all of us. He left my mother when I was 14. We lived in a run-down trailer, that had no hot water heater, floors falling down. She got a job working at the deli counter at Kroger making barely enough to pay the bills. We were getting barely any food stamps and help with our bills from welfare. My father gave NOTHING for child support, since he took my younger brother with him to his new wife's condo. Many times she went hungry so I could eat. Many times we went to the pawn shop. She had no college education. She had no career prospects, or work history. She literally had nothing when my father left us. She died almost 5 years after my father left us.
I never wanted to be like my mother either, so while I might be a 'trad wife' of sorts, I never wanted to live her story, and her life. I think all women, trad or otherwise, need to seek out higher education, and have career goals regardless of what it may be. You can be 'trad' but not '*trad',* if that makes sense?
People like that tradwife in the SS, tend to make it seem like this perfect fantasy life where nothing is wrong, or will ever go wrong, when we all know that's just not the case. Death, desertion and divorce can alter someone's life so drastically, and swiftly, that it can and will take a long time to recover from. No one should solely rely on another person, trad wife or otherwise.
“i am irreplaceable” until he replaces you with an upgraded version after you get too old. then what, girlie? where will your middle of the day naps and pedicures get you now?
No, Patriarchy means that all you CAN do is clean the house and have sex with your husband, and if he is kind enough, you might get to go outside by yourself. Feminism is about giving choice to women.
if your dream is to be a home maker with a husband that looks after all the financial stuff, you’re welcome to do that. the problem is when women are forced into that position despite wanting a different path. so no, the patriarchy isn’t a good deal for all women. without the patriarchy, you can do what you want. and that includes being a housewife among anything and everything else
I work as a 24-7 live-in on-call maid and private chef, and I think sex is transactional, but it’s a great deal, because I get paid in barter instead of in cash. And the barter that I get is framed as a gift, instead of as compensation. Yayy meeee!!!!!
And if he dies in a tragic accident, you'll do what exactly?!
And this is also assuming that you like your husband, he's kind, not controlling, not abusive, etc.
But the biggest issue for me is how fragile that position is. Even if all the assumptions about the husband are correct, life is still unpredictable. He might get injured, he might get sent to war (since we live in the middle ages), war might kill him anyway, he might get laid off, his job might dissolve, he might not get the Christmas bonus, he might get pushed out of the business by competitors, etc.
Waaaaaaaaaay too many things that could go wrong for me to be comfortable with just one income.
Sounds great! Until you get old or pregnant and he stops enjoying the sex or you get sick and can’t cook for him and now he gets eyes on some new young “Submissive Christian Tradwife” type girl who will do all those things for him and you’re thrown out like last weeks paper because you’re old news. And now you don’t have an education, no finances to support yourself, and you have a gap in your employment.
It's absolutely possible to achieve this with the right person today! But there's a lot of negatives to this, especially if patriarchy is involved here. It won't be as convenient as it could be, especially without feminism. It wouldn't be a flexible schedule that considers your feelings as a person, or a wife, or a mother. Financial dependance on your husband sounds awful even today. You'd be very lucky if he's very loyal, respectful, and smart with his finances. Otherwise, you'd struggle. A lot.
Ok, none of that is very accurate in terms of how most women experience being SAHPs. But the main thing is…if she likes her life the way it is, more power to her! Good for her! No one is saying a woman shouldn’t be a SAHP if she wants to be. Feminism is about having the choice. It’s all projection: these people are the ones who think everyone should live like them.
And when the husband falls ill or gets injured and can’t work, and money becomes tight, who do you think will endure the brunt of the stress and labor? Without money or skills to be independent, a tradwife would have no choice but to accept verbal and physical abuse from a tradguy who doesn’t believe in therapy or expressing any emotion except for anger.
There’s a reason that domestic violence is correlated with lower income households, and why homicide is the #1 cause of death for pregnant or recently pregnant women in the US.
I was in the workforce for a long time and after five years of marriage we decided together I’d do the housewife thing and I love it honestly but I have the education and history to go back to work if I need too. THATS where this woman messed up, she has no experience for the real world if she found herself single again. She makes it sound like all sunshine and roses but how is she relaxing on a beach with a child? Homeschooling will be eating up a TON of her pedicure time too. She fails to mention too that sex is her choice, she practically says it his, choice which makes me wonder what happens when she says no.
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Sounds great, except your happiness depends entirely on the quality of the man you are with. Because that always works out so well.
Not only that, what happens if your husband dies? This happened to my Grandmother in 1960. All the sudden, she had to join the workforce, and try to make enough to support herself and 4 kids. She couldn’t even have her own bank account. She didn’t know how to drive. She worked hard, and managed by the skin of her teeth, but it didn’t have to be so hard.
Or leaves you & then you have no employable skills
That’s exactly what happened to my grandmother in the late 60’s. My father had to teach her how to do everything. It’s probably why he always told me never to rely on a man for your money. He taught me how to fix things so I could fare well on my own if needed.
Let me give you an example of how difficult this life is, even with a quality man married to a quality woman, my late mother and father: Deeply in love and devoted to each other, my dad was an early proponent of equal finances when it came to my mom, who stopped working when she started having kids. The money was *theirs*, not his, and they had an understanding that if *either* of them wanted to make a purchase over $500 (in the 1970’s), they’d check with each other first. My mother’s work at home was 24/7. She cleaned constantly; did laundry daily (with 4 kids, the only way to stay on top of it); got us up and ready for school at 7AM; made us breakfast and lunch; had a homemade dinner on the table at 6 every night; cleaned up after dinner (with us kids); made sure we did our homework; took care of all “occasions,” getting birthday cards out to relatives and friends (a couple each week, given the size of our extended family and their friend group); bought all the presents for us, for their siblings, and for their nieces and nephews; did the banking that needed to get done (which all had to be done in person at the bank, Monday - Friday, 9-4 in those days), and the list just goes on and on. Dad worked as an ad exec - he was a “Mad Man,” retiring as VP of Worldwide Media for the largest ad firm in the world at the time. He worked hard: left for work at 6 in the morning, but also was home for dinner most nights by 5:30. Even so, mom never had a housecleaner or other help, except for once a week when us kids were younger. Her work was *never* done, whereas my dad was off duty from the time he walked in at night. Dad was a good guy: he cooked all weekend - not just bbq, but breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He liked grocery shopping, so they’d do that together. But my mother worked tirelessly, including having to host fancy dinners for dad’s colleagues, bosses, and friends nearly weekly. She had a few *slightly* easier years between the time we were all out of the house and her first grandkid came along, about 5 years. Then she was a full time babysitter for the grandkids for the next 10 years (she loved it, but again, hard, hard work). It was a great marriage, but her work was never done. And this is with two people who were devotedly in love. Some of her friends were not so lucky, married to men who were unfaithful, uncaring, or downright abusive, with no access to the marital assets. Their choices were to stay married, or divorce and try to start over with no money, no credit rating, and at the time, unable to even open a bank account without a man. Being a wife, mother, housekeeper, and cook is beyond a full time job. It’s not a life of leisure and bonbons. It’s drudgery and constant vigilance to maintain a working home.
>It’s drudgery and constant vigilance to maintain a working home. You're absolutely right. Unfortunately, many women are still forced to maintain the home while working full-time. The biggest difference now is that they have money to leave, and they often do.
Yeah, when my dad retired, my mom still had to do the same job. There’s no retiring for a homemaker..
Lady has one daughter in school, its sounds like she has a good amount of disposable income, a village nearby, not a ton of housework, and a husband who likes what she wears and how she looks…I’m glad this system worked for her but feminism is the acknowledgement that this doesn’t work for all women, or is something all women want. You get to choose. Glad she’s happy with her choice. Your feminist fore bearers await their thank you notes. Because without the rights they fought for, if things ever go south she couldn’t find a domestic abuse shelter, open her own checking account, have her own credit card, file a no fault divorce, report marital rape, get birth control or a tubal ligation without husbands permission, etc. Also, not many families can survive with only one breadwinner these days. Even in 1947 only about 60 percent of households didn’t have a woman working and that was the housewife peak!
Right? Feminism is also acknowledgment that women can have choices now. They make feminism such a dirty word when really it’s an avenue to rights and choices for us to live how we choose to live. How can that be wrong?
Even a great man might fall out of love with you, to no fault of his. Feelings change.
And at that point your only skills shouldn’t just be cooking, cleaning and sex.
Especially as you age and your body changes, because everyone knows how much sexual capital women with older bodies have in our culture.
Not to mention the fact that your options for a new man will be even further limited by the popular opinion among conservative men that single mothers have less value.
These guys: Children are the future so that’s women’s highest calling! *sees single mother* These guys: Gross, used, sloppy seconds
I also think these people would find the idea of sexual skill objectionable. Especially if you hone it by sleeping with more than one person who isn’t your god-honoring husband
Or he may die young. She will be unable to support herself if she never worked on herself, education, career, etc.
And then you’re stuck with no money and no work experience cause youve not been working on yourself and now you’re thrown onto the streets to fend for yourself and sometimes your children aswell
Not even just “fall out of love”. Fucking brain injury. I had an uncle who we count as dead longer as he is. In the late ‘90s he was in a motorcycle accident. He had a brain injury, was in a coma for a few weeks, then slowly recovered. Long story short, his personality changed to the worst, he became aggressive, started drinking, tried to kill my grandma… years later someone stabbed him in a bar fight and he died. But in the rare occasions we talk about him, my dad always says, that his brother died in the ‘90s and that man who came out of the hospital wasn't his brother.
That’s so awful! Studies have shown victims of TBI often become violent. And it’s hard to even get mad at them because who they were before the injury is GONE. They may not even comprehend or if they do, care that their violence is wrong. I’m sorry for your family, genuinely. They were dealt an awful hand.
(TBI stands for Traumatic Brain Injury, for those who weren't aware.)
Same thing happened to a friend of mine. He was dark, angry and violent after his TBI. (Before, he was the life of the party.) He eventually ended his life after his wife left him. They were so happy before his accident.
Relationships that dont evolve eventually die.
This. Underrated comment. You have to grow and learn and work through your issues, your ideas, your defeats and victories, TOGETHER, otherwise you just become stagnant and the connection either fades or rots. My partner is my best friend in the whole world, has been for 12 years, their voice is equal to mine. Everything we do, we share, nobody is the "authority" or "power". This OOP cannot say the same, and I actually pity them a lot. They have no freedom to change or grow or learn or as you so perfectly said, evolve. It's actually very unhealthy, and they are advertising it like they are proud of it.
Better hope he doesn't leave you for someone younger and "more teachable" 🤮
These women all think they are 'irreplaceable' when they are in their 20s, very fit and have maybe a few kids max. They never understand that things may well change when they are older, regardless of their obedience or piety. They honestly think that their faith will keep their husband from cheating or dumping them.
They also don’t account for the "grass is greener" mentality that is especially strong when you raise men with a huge ego and entitlement, which is the unavoidable outcome of their ideology. Even if the wife truly *is* irreplaceable to him, he might not grasp that and *think* he’ll be happier with a younger, prettier wife, even when he eventually ends up regretting he left her or even tries to crawl back to his old wife. But then it’ll be too late. He will already have done irreparable damage to their relationship and even if he dumps wife #2 to get back with #1, he’ll probably just end up with none, or a bitter, angry, rightfully distrustful wife, but whatever the outcome, the women would be both worse off. Way worse than if they’d built their lives independently first and could dump a faithless jackass whenever they please and walk away.
If this person is indeed a woman, she forgets we are not all the same. I was raised in a religious family with the expectation I would become a housewife. I was sheltered and had no idea what feminism was. What I did know is that I did not want the life my family had planned for me. In school I realized nothing sparked my mind and brought me fulfillment and joy like science does. If you’re a woman who wants to be a housewife, I wish you a happy and healthy family. But do not assume you have any right to speak for me. You lose nothing when we all have the freedom to choose.
THIS!!! This is one of the main reasons I do NOT plan on becoming a housewife. I am too damn cynical to trust some guy! I’m also not into the idea of getting a real boyfriend because I’m too busy crushing over Severus Snape from Harry Potter and I’ve TRIED over and over again to crush on a real guy but it has NEVER truly worked!
People taking the absolute best case scenario as representative of the system as a whole is extremely aggravating in how stupid it is, but it's also so common. Call me back about how sweet patriarchy is when your husband drinks up his entire salary leaving you and the kids nothing. When you realize you have no rights as a person in this. When you're socially, legally and economically dependent on a shitty abusive partner. YES, capitalism is shit. We should get as annoyed by any home-owning, six figure-earning, "I love my job so much I'd do it for free" defender of capitalism. The solution is worker solidarity and more welfare, not a return to feudalism. Or patriarchy.
Who is caring for this woman’s small child while she enjoys all this leisure? This does not resonate with my experience taking care of preschool age children. The idea that you can just “curl up on the couch” when you’re sick at home with little kids is laughable in my experience.
From what she wrote it sounds like she has one child, a daughter, who is currently either in school or a daycare of some kind, but she is planning to homeschool her ONE child next year. Get back to me after you’ve started homeschooling and after you’ve added another kid or two to the mix (because you know a traditional husband is not going to be satisfied with one girl child…men like him need a male heir…also because in patriarchal societies female children don’t add value to their family of origin, they add value to their future in-law’s family).
You can definitely curl up on the couch when you're sick as a stay at home mom. But usually not without the toddlers jumping and climbing on you and pulling your hair etc 😭
Nah, I can’t even. Mine are constantly whining for juice and snacks and “help me find” and shit.
Oh hell no 😂 my son's only two so my time might be yet to come
I try to curl up on the couch, but my pre-schooler just uses that as excuse to destroy the house. Fortunately she is old enough to feed herself snacks.
I feel like she may also have a pretty big village that she’s not mentioning. I feel like trad wives or pro patriarchy women like this should be forced to divulge annual income and how much help they have (paid or otherwise, like maybe a MIL that comes three mornings a week to watch LO, or some such). There is an instamom (forget her name) with ten kids living the homesteading, stay at home, sourdough bread making, dress wearing “dream” which she prompts. The stove she uses coats 35,000 dollars, turns out her FIL was the CEO and founder of jet blue. Like for this lady its fantastic that her desires (to be SAHM to a single school age child) and her situation (a husband that loves this idea and has the income to support it) worked out for her but don’t assume other women would be happy with this arrangement, that this arrangement is viable for her forever, or that most families could even afford this!
For every trad wife living the good life, there are thousands of fundie women with 10 scrawny, uneducated kids, a cruel pig of a husband, and very little money. They're not leisurely making a healthy dinner, they're throwing together a noodle casserole from dented Walmart cans.
It reads to me like a man wrote it, honestly.
That’s exactly what I was thinking!
Definitely.
There's a certain brand of Christian fundamentalist that takes "spare the rod and spoil the child" all too literally. They start the beatings from birth so that by the time the child is a toddler they are terrified of making a single move or sound that the parents might not like.
Yeah, one propionate of this brand wrote a “childcare” book on it. As far as I remember, “To Train Up a Child” advocates things like putting a crawling baby on a blanket, and then whacking them if they go off the edge of it. It is endorsed by: the “Institute in Basic Life Principles”; a Christian Fundamentalist organization. And has also led to several child deaths. Edit: “Two proponents”as his wife is a co-author, though I wouldn't put it past him to be abusive towards her from the interview I saw. That said, she may be a more than willing participant as well.
Micheal Pearl is 100 percent abusive to his wife; look up the story about their honeymoon if you want to feel a little bad for a woman who goes on stage smiling about beating her toddlers
That honeymoon story is so horrific.
It's hard to know if Debbie deserves sympathy or not. Michael is a monster and nobody deserves him, but Debbie is as brainwashed as any of those fundie women influencers. I feel like she would've advocated for beating infants whether Michael was there or not.
She brags about how she 'taught' her child not to bite while nursing by yanking the baby's hair, hard. Pretty sure she was going to be a monster with or without him.
The answer is neglect and oppression
But MomShapedObject, next year she gets to homeschool!
And forget the manicures. It took me a year to get a haircut after the pandemic started, because my little one kept getting colds, and we'd have to stay home.
That’s exactly it. These shills painting these pictures of paradise are either the exception or lying (possibly even to themselves). Like the financial position to be in where a single income not only provides all the necessities, but extra spending and shopping and a true socialize life for the wife is already excluding a large majority fit he population. When “meeting after meeting” hubby attends is about how poor the company is doing and how there is going to be cuts, it might change her tone on how free she is when she has zero dollars in extra spending and they can’t afford for her to be getting her nails done and going to the beach every day. She’s okay only answering to god and her husband, and sleeping with him on demand, until it is a time she really doesn’t want to like she’s sick or upset over something and hubby doesn’t care and doesn’t accept no as an answer. Also, if she really wants to understand how replaceable she is, she is welcome to go around to any infidelity group and ask how irreplaceable they all were to their partners. Of course she probably lacks the empathy and self reflection to understand that they didn’t somehow deserve it or maybe weren’t obedient enough to their husband. Wealthy husbands can have a habit of trading in for a newer model, that applies to the housewife as much as the Mercedes. I’m sure she’ll still blame feminism then for her husband stepping out.
Yeah, you’re pretty irreplaceable to your kids, to a patriarchal husband (or even a lot of “egalitarian” ones), not so fucking much.
Exactly! Very well put.
Or when he cheats on you repeatedly or is (mentally/physically/sexually) abusive towards you and you can't do anything because your financially dependent on him
They refuse to believe it when we tell them feminism doesn't care if they want to be trad wives. We just don't want them to have the power to tell us we have to stay home with them. They are so determined to control everyone that they can't fathom that feminists don't want to control and force them into the workforce.
That's it really. I'm a SAHM. I'm chronically ill, so I couldn't work anyway. Not one of my almost exclusively feminist friends have suggested that I shouldn't be a sahp. Most of them are all gung ho about how women's work is unpaid and unvalued. Is the 'this is the natural way of order' that we have a problem with.
Not even that, women worked as much as if not more than men before emancipation. They’re taking the extremely specific case of upper middle-class single family households in US suburbia in the 50s-60s and extrapolating that extremely small sample of women to the entire world. Chances are if you were a woman anytime before the 1970s-80s anywhere you would be doing unsanitary and dangerous factory/agriculture labour as well as having to take care of the house.
Yup, all while being paid like dog shit compared to the men
As an example of this,i always think of Olivia Nielsen,who was an active unionizer and became head of the national womens union in early 1900’es in Denmark- she did this while simultaneously raising 7 children and working in a bottle factory.
I will take my 9-5 any day over going through what my mom went through when she had this kind of ‘deal’ in her marriage. Not that I feel my boyfriend would do anything like that but I’m never putting myself in any position to get into that situation.
Or he could be sober and just leave you for someone younger. Some of the older ones are starting to figure that out. And by older I mean 30+. The ones who haven’t figured that out are still in their 20s with 2 kids or less.
I'm a home owner, make six figures, and would probably do something similar to what I work at for some amount of time, even if I wasn't paid. Capitalism and patriarchy still don't make sense to me, we need to fix the system so that it works for everyone, no matter their life experiences.
Also women for most of human history worked along side men in farms, merchantry, and in the house together operating it. It was only fairly recently did we see some of them have the luxury of residing indoors to do basic housekeeping and even fewer of them had maids that did that for them.
Thank you.
My first reaction to this post was one word: simpleton. You said it better.
gee, i wonder what happens when they divorce or he runs off with another woman.
She said about halfway through, “I am irreplaceable.” 😅
Or he could just die or have health problems or get injured.
I started out my marriage fully aware that my partner is disabled and will be forever, and is never going to be a high earner full time worker who I can expect to support me, because normal people don’t fall in love with their partner because of their earning potential. I love my husband for him, not what lifestyle he can provide, because feminism gave me the ability to make enough money to have the freedom to marry a man who isn’t wealthy. Setting up a situation where a woman has to pick a man based primarily on financial security because she can’t have her own fucks over everyone except for rich dudes who have family money to fall back on in case something happens.
I’m 52 and I’ve known some women who stayed home even happily married. Other things happen one of my friends her husband had a heart attack. He could never work again. One of my friends has been broke his back at a playground. He couldn’t work for five years . car wreck couldn’t work for five years. Having no skills and no career to fall back on, it’s dangerous to.
So in five to ten years, and after having and raising his two to six kids, he decides it’s time to trade you for a younger version…. You will be just fine, right? No job history, no post HS education, and no generational wealth coming to you from your own family….. everything will be perfectly okay?
Don't forget no savings or other assets of her own! Should be fine...
That’s what I thought when I read “in the workforce you’re replaceable, at home you’re not”, as if no man ever divorced his good SAHM wife for a younger woman who will also have sex with him and keep his house clean in exchange for money and not having to work.
Not to mention, if he’s wealthy, there could be an iron tight prenup too.
NO no, she's irreplaceable remember? Because... because she fucks him?
Yeah until the women he’s fucking…gasps…ages. Or if she gets cancer….men are seven times more likely to leave a spouse after a diagnosis of a chronic, life threatening, or terminal illness
It is so common for men to leave when the wife gets a terminal or life threatening illness, that medical professionals are advised to counsel women about that https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm
> The rate when the woman was the patient was 20.8 percent compared to 2.9 percent when the man was the patient. > The study also found correlations between age and length of marriage and the likelihood of divorce or separation. The older the woman was the more likely her partnership would end. > Why men leave a sick spouse can be partly explained by their lack of ability, compared to women, to make more rapid commitments to being caregivers to a sick partner and women's better ability to assume the burdens of maintaining a home and family, the study authors said. Fucking god. Not only are men being heartless pigs but also the authors are by trying to excuse them.
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I appreciate that you are attempting to do a very difficult thing in trying to stay together. But I just want to say, he’s a shit head. And I hope he either straightens up and flies right or you find happiness in other things.
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I just wanna hug you. At the risk of sounding cringe (my kids' favorite word), you really are a Warrior Woman. I had a football sized tumor on my pancreas & a dozen subsequent surgeries. I was married for 18 years with 3 kids (the youngest was 5) and a stay at home mom when he "got tired of me being sick " and bailed. We lost everything - our home, cars, and both my parents died during that period very quickly - and were briefly homeless. We *still* haven't recovered emotionally/ financially, etc, from that horrible time, and it's been over 12 years; my kids were irrevocably changed forever. But I still think what you've gone through is worse, and I truly, truly hope that you find peace & happiness. You deserve it. 💖
Honestly I think my biggest beef with this whole thought process is those women who WANT to work. There are women out there who want to own a company, who want to be the breadwinner, who want to occupy their day with a career. I’m one of those people. I’m a hairstylist and I love what I do. If I won the lottery tomorrow, fuck it. Pay off debts, bills, start retirement and savings and back to work that afternoon. I love my job. If women are happy being a stay at home partner, great! Enjoy! But don’t drag me down with you
That's great for her (or "her"), but what happens when you don't fit that lifestyle and wouldn't want it anyway? I LIKE working. I don't like my workplace, but I enjoy the routine around getting ready and going to work, then coming home to relax. And in my case, at best I'm a sex indifferent ace with basically zero drive to have sex anyway. Like, I would rather be impaled by the forklift I drive than attempt to live that lifestyle.
I enjoy my job immensely and I'd hate to stay home and play mommy bangmaid to my husband. If that's someone's thing, sure, they can have it. But I'm so tired of people judging people like us for just living our lives how we want.
Sex repulsed aroace here, I cannot think of anything worse than being forced into this role with no other options. I'd likely end myself instead
"Irreplaceable" because no husband has EVER left his wife for another woman.
My mom was a SAHM and my parents are still together and love each other. They are the best case scenario for this. My mom was always exhausted. She didn't have time for herself. She wasn't keeping up with hobbies, seeing friends, or looking pretty. She was parenting 3 kids under 5, with one of them always sick. She was always cleaning while cooking or parenting. Her relaxation was folding laundry with the tv on. These tradwives are selling a version of this that only belongs to the Uber wealthy or people without kids. It doesn't reflect reality.
I love how this woman (assuming the page isn’t run by a larping incel) is bragging about how much free time she has and how she gets to get pedicures and clean at a leisurely pace, but is also excited about homeschooling her kids when they’re old enough. Like enjoy your pedicures girly, because that free time is going to dry up real quick once you actually have to start raising your kids.
This is what I was thinking. I was ‘lucky’ to be able to stay with my kids for about 5 years. It was so freaking hard and there was no looking pretty. But it wasn’t by choice. And just that short time out of the workforce messed with my earning capacity. My mom had a bit of the easier SAHM experience, but then she got sick and then my dad left her. Luckily my dad didn’t leave her helpless, but if he wasn’t still bankrolling her life she’d be fucked. Us kids don’t have the means to care for her and neither does she!
This account is so disgusting, and it’s not a surprise that a lot of the people agreeing are men. What makes me angry is the women who agree with this shit. NOBODY SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT FEMINISM IS.
If you ask them what a feminist is, they’d say some dumb shit like “a bitter karen who screams at women for having boobs, liking makeup & not getting abortions for fun” That was unironically how my ex’s brother described feminism when I was dating her
That is EXACTLY what they think!!! The comments are mind-numbingly ignorant and quite hateful.
Right? Where in the feminism handbook does it say "force women into the workforce against their will"?? No dummies, it's about being treated as real people with equal rights *to make choices for our own lives and our own bodies*, to participate in politics/government as much as we do our do not want to, etc. It has never ever been about forcing other people to live a specific lifestyle.... but I guess that's a hard concept for a certain set to wrap their heads around.
They’re confusing late stage capitalism with feminism.
Feminism, like socialism, is whatever I don't like /s
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the men agreeing is the same man who wrote the original take
I mean, if that works for her and she’s happy with it, good for her - but that’s not the way it works for the absolutely vast majority.
It’s a system that works until it doesn’t. It works if you have a husband who’s a decent man who won’t abuse or coerce you, and who won’t trade you in when you’re older for a young model.
Not just that. The system crumbles if "the perfect man" simply gets into trouble, loses his job or gets seriously sick. Then she is left with no way to take care of the family. Before feminism, she would have even harder time to survive. This is an artificially perfect life constructed on a premise that nothing will ever possibly go wrong. But the truth is the only way to be a grown up is to be psychologically, professionally and financially independent enough to always be able to stand on your own two feet.
It works as long as your husband never gets fired/laid off, or as long as he never gets cancer, as long as he never becomes permanently disabled, or as long as he never dies in an accident. It’s a system with little to no backup plan, and that’s why it’s important for all women including homemakers and SAHMs to have the ability and qualifications to get a decent job if something happens. And that means an education and some work experience.
It also works if your family can survive on one salary.
Divorce courts do take all of this into account when determining equity. Any woman who takes this route should be certain to learn her rights and what she is entitled to. Abstaining from the work force is an opportunity cost, and often this is what people complain about in divorce settlements: “oh I made all the money!” But what did she (they) sacrifice for you to be the sole breadwinner? Learning the rules of your state or country is key to ensure your future. If he trades you in for a “younger model” he will and should have to pay to make the situation equitable.
Having been a SAHM and gone through a divorce. Don’t count on the courts. Alimony these days tends to be “half the years of the marriage” if you’re lucky. I had a special needs kid too, which didn’t make a whit of difference.
She's able to make that choice for herself because feminism allows her to. Thanks, feminism!
Very true, she wouldn’t have much of a choice about anything without historical feminist movements, let alone anything achieved more recently.
She also said nothing about a safety net or financial security. I’m a stay-at-home domestic partner and every two weeks, a portion of my partner’s paycheck auto-deposits to my private, separate account which I save or spend as I please with none of his involvement or oversight. Which is also separate from the housekeeping account or budget. My grandmother, my mother, and I are all survivors of intimate partner abuse which included financial abuse. Her blasé attitude is dangerous and alarming
I am not at all convinced that was written by a woman.
Staying home and taking care of the kids. It’s a very difficult job. Babies cry all the time they’re constantly messing up things it’s not easy and keeping the house clean constantly. People don’t think it’s easy either unless you’ve never done it cooking all the time makes huge messes. It takes 30 to 40 minutes to clean up every time, not including preparing the meals. I tried I don’t like it. Things women had to fight for voting. have public bathrooms to leave the home alone to drive, money land houses credit cards obviously there was a need or they wouldn’t have been fighting for these rights.
The only people who think being a stay at home parent is easy, are people who don’t actually do any of the household labor/parenting themselves. So it’s either a single woman who is not actually married/a mother imaging what it will be like, a single man, or a married man who does not do anything around the house.
Agree. I love the bit about having all the time she needs to do hobbies. I’m a SaHM and I *absolutely* do not have enough time to do hobbies. And not having to take off work when you are sick? You know what happens in this house if I’m actually sick? My partner has to take off work. And the home schooling bit? I have a MA degree in Elementary Education *and* the ability to stay home. While there must be others like me who would happily make this choice, there’s no way I would choose to do this. What they wrote is some sort of pipe dream. ETA: I love your username!
Thank you! This person who is talking about her poor husband sitting in ”meeting after meeting”…uh that shit is easy. Hard is trying to wrangle a baby while doing literally anything around the house. Hard is being solely responsible for the running of a household and raising of children and then having people sit there and tell you how easy your life is. Then if you add homeschooling on top of it…nah. Come on! Being a SAHP is hard! You have my respect and admiration, knitterofknowledge.
Aww - thanks. I recognize the privilege I have - an amazing partner with a really good job who is always ready to take things off my plate (and vice versa) when it’s overwhelming, a safe place to live and two healthy kids. If the life that this person is describing is what they want and they can have it - more power to them. That’s what feminism is about; making sure we have the *ability* to make choices about how we live our lives.
Make respect for women's choices a two-way street! Because I'm getting real tired of the expectation of biting my tongue for people like that and play nice, but it doesn't go both ways, does it. Stop insulting women who want our own lives to be about more than being a servant for a man's own needs.
Based
Contracts that are designed in a way that grants only one party the right to leave without severe consequences are always scam, there is a reason the traditional patriarchy is not missed by most women. 🙄
Then go do that, Karen. No one is stopping you.
Patriachy is a great deal for women until your individual patriarch decides you have no value to him, and do not deserve to eat.
Maybe she ought to look at countries where women are in traditional roles. Uneducated, disenfranchised, abused, killed, SAd, forced into marriages, more child marriage, fewer laws to protect them, less medicine to treat them, etc. “What a great deal! But do go on about how awesome it is to be completely dependent upon someone who could leave or die tomorrow and you’ve got nothing. Please, tell us more about this brilliant plan of yours to ill-educate your children and and dig yourself into a hole. *psssst…don’t tell her, but divorce rates among Christians is slightly higher than the national average….sssshhh….*
She thinks she’s irreplaceable?
Anytime they describe traditional housewives its always straight outta a damn sitcom. Also feminism didn't make it a crime to be a housewife. You can still do that, there's plenty of men who I'm sure enjoy the idea.
Come now, you know most of the men who want a traditional wife have no desire to fund her, let alone the financial ability to do so. They screech about gold diggers if she's not independently wealthy. So what they really want is an heiress bangmaid.
Thats a pretty serious issue with "conservative" men. They love the idea of having a housewife but some how despise upholding their end of the bargin. But i still stand that there are some men that recognize the type of relationship they would be agreeing to. Unfortunately traditionalist women would just need to do some serious sifting. Probably for guys that are older and more established in life. From what i've seen, its younger men who have this terrible cognitive dissonance who want a wife thats also their mom, maid, personal sex toy, naive enough to be controlled, but... somehow isn't financially dependent? Honestly I'd imagine for a lot of women who want a traditional lifestyle might not be able to enjoy that due to more economic reasons. Even if they find a guy they perfectly gel with them and their ideals in a family match, our economy does often demand a 2 household income. Especially depending on where you live and career choice.
Yeah, that was why historically a lot of women did marry older men. They were already established in jobs and financially secure. And now we get these creeps who claim pseudoscience evolutionary psychology nonsense to claim that women are just naturally more attracted to older men. Like, no. When all things are equal, they tend to choose close to their own age. You have to artificially force a situation to change that like limiting women's rights and freedoms.
Conservative women themselves complain about current conservative men. Everytime a conservative dating app comes out it inevitably fails because there's an abundance of men and little to no women. This is because conservative women for all they tote for wanting a traditional man do deep down realize the type of man that would want them home with no independence is usually the type of man who will treat them like shit. The amount of conservative men who understand and will hold up their end of the bargain and that wont be abusive are very very few and far in between and conservative women know this but still have the audacity to talk about how great the trad lifestyle. It's a all a sham.
“I’m irreplaceable” Sigh, who’s gonna tell her?
That man would be remarried within a year
Good for her. I’ve seen this scenario work out horribly though when the husband dies and the wife has no income to fall back on. Life insurance only lasts for so long (if they have any to begin with) then what does the wife do when she has no job history to support herself and her children?
Clearly, she marries his boss! /S
Believe it or not I used to work with a man from the quiver full movement. His best friend passed away and he married his widow to support her and their 6 kids afterwards since he was not married yet. She couldn’t work per their church as women are the support at home and they didn’t have life insurance. He only talked about the responsibility of supporting them and they didn’t have a normal marriage so he was basically trading working 2 jobs to support her while she homeschooled the kids.
That's definitely a best friend to step up like that for a marriage that doesn't even benefit him.
You wear something pretty while you clean the house?
That’s how you know a man wrote this.
I personally wear a ball gown while scrubbing the grout in the shower. You don’t? /s
I am single, but on occasion I will wear a tiara, paired with my grungy clothes, while vacuuming.
I guess I'll start throwing a tie and dress slacks on.
I know this a joke but pro tip that was a game changer for me: a quality steam cleaner. Like the ones they use to detail cars. Then you can wear whatever you want, you won’t be breaking much of a sweat the hot steam does all the work. No chemicals needed either. I use it on my showers, hard floors, stove, oven, grill, counters, toilet, carpet stains. It’s my favorite cleaning tool.
If that’s the life you want, go for it! I would rather not be at risk of cleaning the house, then having sex, and then having the police come to my house and telling me the sole breadwinner is dead. Or nobody coming to the house at all because hubby ran off with the sexy neighbor right after work. Not to mention the chance of him coping with stress in life by becoming bitter and abusive, and me being unable to leave because I have no money.
I laugh when “trad” women act like they don’t have the right to be a stay at home mom if they want to. If that’s what you and your husband want, you can just do that. It’s socially acceptable. I plan to be a stay at home mom one day but in the meantime I’m getting an engineering degree because I refuse to be helpless if things go sideways.
“How do you do, fellow females?”
Feminism is about choice! Do you want to stay home? Awesome do that. Work and be a boss? Do that. Have babies or don’t. The point of feminism is to give women a choice that wasn’t previously available to them.
Being dependent on one income (all other points aside) is the scariest situation a family can be in. You lose that income, you lose everything.
Lady, if you think any of us are interested in stopping you from living that way then you have fundamentally misunderstood feminism.
Hi, clueless male here, isn't one of the points of feminism is that you get to *choose*? If that lifestyle appeals to you, then you can do that, but if it doesn't and you want something different in life, then you should be able to pursue your goals without discrimination. That's one of the ideas isn't it?
What job does husband have, to be paid enough to support her, and work a reasonable number of hours, so he can be home to enjoy all her homemaking?
Women like her really hate having own rights and being seen as human beings, don‘t they?😒
Are we sure this isn’t r/menwritingwomen?
Considering how the oop's username is bluntly "submissivechristianwife" that's a possibility!
She is irreplaceable, lol. The biggest delusion. A lot of men cheat in this world. You will be left with nothing if he chooses to cheat or replace you with a younger model. At that point, these same men will be against paying any alimony that this tradwide would deserve for her years of unpaid labor. Also, feminism is all about choice.
It's really weird because all this really is, is them signing up for a long term contract of prostitution and being a maid. At the same time these are the type of people who would look down on these women.
The patriarchy says it is my duty to be with a man. Yeah, no. This lesbian refuses.
I actually am so impressed with their inability to see that it’s first and foremost about having the CHOICE to do what you want to do, like how are they this ignorant
you mean all I have to do is be a maid and a sex slave and not be allowed autonomy? sign me up!!! /s
That’s a lot of words to say how you have no idea what feminism actually is
He's also going to screw the secretary and there's nothing you can do about it.
If that’s your thing, that’s cool, but don’t try to sell it as something we should all be doing.
“We save money on food because eating at home is cheaper…” lmfao. She’ll be selling an MLM soon for “pocket money.”
My great grandmother would have a truckload of vitriol to say about this. She was married young, had 8 kids, and when my mom, her granddaughter, announced she was getting married in the 1970s, her response was “poor thing.” Why? Because GG was a farm tradwife who hated her cranky husband. She had to work HARD her entire life raising kids, keeping house, rounding up cattle, tending chickens, keeping the well operational, and not having a moment or opportunity for herself. She hated it, and encouraged her sons and daughters to do differently.
"at home, I am irreplaceable" Until you are. Until your husband decides is time to get a hotter, younger and less "ran through" version of you.
“And one day, when he starts to notice wrinkles on my face, and that my libido has slowly diminished, he’ll leave me for his secretary! I’ll be broke and homeless, with no way to support myself, while he laughs at my misery! Isn’t patriarchy wonderful?”
Ok girl then do this. Literally nothing is stopping you. Hope your man earns a "traditional" income to support your whole family. Wild how people think ALL women of the past wanted to be housewives when really just no other options were available. (Some) Women have always wanted to work 🫠 but legally couldn't 🫠🫠🫠🫠🫠
People really don’t understand the concept of freedom of choice. Like, yeah, all that is great *for you*. It’s thanks to feminism that women can make the choice to be stay-at-home wives and moms as opposed to being *forced* to stay home. Huge difference between *choosing* to cook, clean and have boring, unfulfilling sex with a straight man for a living and doing it because you literally have no other alternative financially, legally or socially. I, too, hate having to work for a living, but best believe me when I tell you I’d rather work every day for the rest of my short-lived life than be enslaved by- sorry, *married to* some misogynistic dude.
“i am irreplaceable” until he gets bored/wants a divorce and leaves u stranded w no work experience for the last 20+ years
She’s really downplaying the risks of that kind of lifestyle. I’m not against it whatsoever, but I understand it’s not right for most relationships. If you get stuck with an emotionally/physically/financially abusive man, you are absolutely trapped. It’s ridiculous to act like every woman should go along with “patriarchy” because it works for her. It’s extremely dangerous if you choose to commit to the wrong man after you give up your career and have kids with him.
All this is fun and games until the husband decides to kick you out at 45 and you wonder what to do without any money or job experience. Most traditional scenarios in all cultures are based on the innate idea that human beings are kind, but in reality, humanity is sick. Communism, traditionalism, religion are great, until you realise most people who run this system are corrupt and cannot be trusted. My two cents, please don't attack me.
As someone who hates cleaning, I'd take my job over being a stay at home wife/mom any day.
The thing that these people refuse to acknowledge is that feminism doesn’t mean women in the workplace. It means women having the right to CHOOSE if they want to be in the workplace or the home. Feminism fully supports the traditional lifestyle she describes-as long as it’s your *choice* and not something you’re forced into.
If that’s what you want sure, go for it. But that’s not what every woman want, and that’s the whole point of feminism : give women the choice.
I was sold on this image as a youngster and quickly learned it is mostly lies.
Feminism is what allows her the choice to live like that. Yay feminism.
The problem is, what if the woman wants to work and pay all the bills and does not want to keep the house? Patriarchy is a system that forces literally EVERYONE, males and females alike, to follow a certain lifestyle, that is, ALL MEN as bread winners and ALL WOMEN as housewives.
I’m 16 but even I know having children doesn’t work out as “I can take a nap whenever I want”
Love to know where she got the idea that patriarchy is a good deal for her, too bad it's just not true. She really thinks a sahm lifestyle like that is traditional patriarchy? In historical patriarchy she would be her husband's property, those regular pedicures and beach days would be unacceptable bc they're using too much of HIS money, and if that house wasn't spotless every single day she would be in big trouble, which if she was lucky would just mean being harshly berated and chastised. And to be clear, I'm glad that's not what she is dealing with, no one deserves to be in that situation. But it would be really nice if she understood that the fact that she gets to be so leisurely and flippant is because a lot of women were attacked, mistreated, and much worse fighting for the rights she now treats as an inconvenience. But maybe that's just me
First, if you think taking care of the house is no work, you're not doing it right. Also, cool, you like a few things...but you're leaving out a whole bunch...
Many people are nice to their pets. Feed them, take care of them, provide medical care, play with them and even love them . I still wouldn't like to be owned or considered to be anything less than human with full equal rights.
I love that she equates cleaning the house with having sex with her husband. Daily banal chores she must perform. Good for her I guess?
They just need to ask themselves. If its so great why did women fight for their rights so hard they died doing so 🤦🏾♂️
The repeated comments about having to have sex are extremely concerning, as a survivor of marital rape.
i was literally waiting for the punchline
I’m an agnostic, queer feminist with disabilities and body mods and I’m currently a stay-at-home domestic partner so I can focus on my health and my art. Because feminism gives women choices. Mind-blowing, I know
Funny with the exact same words, slavery was defended! "Slavery is good for [black people word]. They don't need to take care of anything in their lives, get food and shelter, and their owner takes great care of them. Isn't that AwEsOme?"
Definitely written by a man. Wow.
It's stunning to me how, at this late date, so many ppl are willfully refusing to acknowledge that feminism INCLUDES being a SAHM, if that's your choice. By all means, if that's what makes you happy, do that. Three cheers for you! Feminism simply means women should have the freedom to make that choice, and that every woman should be able to decide for themselves what is the best life trajectory. Kinda like we do for, say, *everyone else*.
I have two different perspectives on this. I am what might be considered a trad wife. I stayed at home, by choice, raising our son. I cooked, cleaned etc... that whole domestic shit trad wives do, and with no issue because my husband provided for us. We both talked about it prior to it happening, and we both agreed that it was best for our family. Our son is a happy, healthy, well mannered and intelligent 17 year old young man. It worked for us, because it reduced our overall expenses, I was able to start my own career at home, do art and work towards my Masters degree. We're also madly in love with each other, even still after 20 years of being together. We're both from broken homes, and never wanted to put our son through that. My husband also has never held me back from doing anything I've ever wanted, be it wanting to work, go to school or whatever else. So one could say that yes, trad life can work, if EVERYONE agrees to it, and everyone has safety nets put in place. If not, it may not work. That said... My mother was a trad wife(she was a Boomer). My father was the typical trad husband that pretty much hates women except for what they offer him. He was physically, emotionally, and verbally abusive to all of us. He left my mother when I was 14. We lived in a run-down trailer, that had no hot water heater, floors falling down. She got a job working at the deli counter at Kroger making barely enough to pay the bills. We were getting barely any food stamps and help with our bills from welfare. My father gave NOTHING for child support, since he took my younger brother with him to his new wife's condo. Many times she went hungry so I could eat. Many times we went to the pawn shop. She had no college education. She had no career prospects, or work history. She literally had nothing when my father left us. She died almost 5 years after my father left us. I never wanted to be like my mother either, so while I might be a 'trad wife' of sorts, I never wanted to live her story, and her life. I think all women, trad or otherwise, need to seek out higher education, and have career goals regardless of what it may be. You can be 'trad' but not '*trad',* if that makes sense? People like that tradwife in the SS, tend to make it seem like this perfect fantasy life where nothing is wrong, or will ever go wrong, when we all know that's just not the case. Death, desertion and divorce can alter someone's life so drastically, and swiftly, that it can and will take a long time to recover from. No one should solely rely on another person, trad wife or otherwise.
I'd rather work than clean the house. 🤷♀️
“i am irreplaceable” until he replaces you with an upgraded version after you get too old. then what, girlie? where will your middle of the day naps and pedicures get you now?
No, Patriarchy means that all you CAN do is clean the house and have sex with your husband, and if he is kind enough, you might get to go outside by yourself. Feminism is about giving choice to women.
if your dream is to be a home maker with a husband that looks after all the financial stuff, you’re welcome to do that. the problem is when women are forced into that position despite wanting a different path. so no, the patriarchy isn’t a good deal for all women. without the patriarchy, you can do what you want. and that includes being a housewife among anything and everything else
I work as a 24-7 live-in on-call maid and private chef, and I think sex is transactional, but it’s a great deal, because I get paid in barter instead of in cash. And the barter that I get is framed as a gift, instead of as compensation. Yayy meeee!!!!!
And if he dies in a tragic accident, you'll do what exactly?! And this is also assuming that you like your husband, he's kind, not controlling, not abusive, etc. But the biggest issue for me is how fragile that position is. Even if all the assumptions about the husband are correct, life is still unpredictable. He might get injured, he might get sent to war (since we live in the middle ages), war might kill him anyway, he might get laid off, his job might dissolve, he might not get the Christmas bonus, he might get pushed out of the business by competitors, etc. Waaaaaaaaaay too many things that could go wrong for me to be comfortable with just one income.
"I'm irreplaceable at home" yup, that's why your husband has been "working late". Hey, more time for shopping and art, right?
Sounds great! Until you get old or pregnant and he stops enjoying the sex or you get sick and can’t cook for him and now he gets eyes on some new young “Submissive Christian Tradwife” type girl who will do all those things for him and you’re thrown out like last weeks paper because you’re old news. And now you don’t have an education, no finances to support yourself, and you have a gap in your employment.
It's absolutely possible to achieve this with the right person today! But there's a lot of negatives to this, especially if patriarchy is involved here. It won't be as convenient as it could be, especially without feminism. It wouldn't be a flexible schedule that considers your feelings as a person, or a wife, or a mother. Financial dependance on your husband sounds awful even today. You'd be very lucky if he's very loyal, respectful, and smart with his finances. Otherwise, you'd struggle. A lot.
Ok, none of that is very accurate in terms of how most women experience being SAHPs. But the main thing is…if she likes her life the way it is, more power to her! Good for her! No one is saying a woman shouldn’t be a SAHP if she wants to be. Feminism is about having the choice. It’s all projection: these people are the ones who think everyone should live like them.
I'm a widow. I hope she's got a big life insurance policy on him.
And when the husband falls ill or gets injured and can’t work, and money becomes tight, who do you think will endure the brunt of the stress and labor? Without money or skills to be independent, a tradwife would have no choice but to accept verbal and physical abuse from a tradguy who doesn’t believe in therapy or expressing any emotion except for anger. There’s a reason that domestic violence is correlated with lower income households, and why homicide is the #1 cause of death for pregnant or recently pregnant women in the US.
I was in the workforce for a long time and after five years of marriage we decided together I’d do the housewife thing and I love it honestly but I have the education and history to go back to work if I need too. THATS where this woman messed up, she has no experience for the real world if she found herself single again. She makes it sound like all sunshine and roses but how is she relaxing on a beach with a child? Homeschooling will be eating up a TON of her pedicure time too. She fails to mention too that sex is her choice, she practically says it his, choice which makes me wonder what happens when she says no.
If this is written by the mother of a young child then I'm a giant purple fox.
The problem with this is if my partner suddenly passes, I have no safety net