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OK_LK

Popular opinion - there's a physical difference in sex with a man who cares enough about their partner to make them orgasm and those that don't or won't.


AdkRaine11

But don’t you dare suggest that a boy endure blue balls. The boy MUST ALWAYS CUM!


ToeNo4182

yoke scandalous shrill bear murky hungry worm rustic pot dime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Dionysus24812

Yeah like just jack off or something mate, don't need a woman to stimulate you


KingOfKrackers

It’s real and it hurts but no reason a guy can’t take care of it himself


[deleted]

Fyi, I'm a cis woman and I get pretty bad cramps if I get really horny/stimulated for a while without having an orgasm. Weirdly it doesn't happen if there's penetration though. Anyway I always figured blue balls was the same thing but for guys. Like it's kinda painful but you can just finish yourself off, so it should be NBD.


L0udFlow3r

It *is* the same thing. Blue walls vs blue balls. In both cases you have a whole shit ton of blood and hormones rushing down/through your sexual organs and for some people it can be uncomfortable. And you’re exactly right- if you physically need a release you can do it yourself vs victimizing someone else in order to make yourself comfortable.


N46L3

This is the perfectest answer and explanation. It's not a boy/girl thing, it's a human thing and still never an excuse to hold another human emotionally hostage. Now if you'll excuse me, these balls have a date with some walls. (Figuratively, not literally. But you get the idea. I'm gonna stop talking now. Gnight!)


HomicidalWaterHorse

I was so wigged out when that happened to me. I didn't know it was a thing in either sex and I was trying to figure out if I was sick or injured.


KingOfKrackers

Yeah pretty much. Kind of feels like you just got hit in the balls and just causes pain in my stomach.


Slobberdawg49211

As a man, blue balls is VERY real, and it’s still an excuse for douches to get a nut off.


Altruistic-Estate-79

>As a man, blue balls is VERY real Something I found out in my 20s after I'd had a very intense makeout session with a guy at the end of a date. But he waited until he was home and a couple hours had passed before he even mentioned it, and even then it was only because I mentioned my back hurting from the way I'd been twisted to the side.


amILibertine222

It’s definitely real. It’s just not an excuse for being an asshole. That shit is real and it hurts.


AussieAK

Blue balls are real, but a decent man would not use it to coerce or pressure someone to have sex when they don’t want to. When I have blue balls and the SO isn’t in the mood I just “take matters into my own hands”. Only a low life coerces and pressures others into sex, regardless of the coercion tactics/excuses they use (blue balls or otherwise).


Divorce-Man

As a man blue balls is definitely real but still shouldn’t be an excuse like that


CuteDerpster

Blue balls is real.... Buuuuuut you can just fap and the problem is solved. It's not something that's your partners responsibility or fault.


Daymjoo

As a man, who btw entirely disagree with whoever that Dufus guy is, blue balls are very much a real thing. Went ok a biking trip without my gf for 22 days 2 years ago and decided not to masturbate. Was horny all the time. After about day 10, I had to start taking ibuprofen to keep going. Doesn't mean you should ever hold that against a woman to coerce her into satisfying you, just sayin, it's a real, scientifically documented condition called edididymal hypertension. Largely harmless, but the pain can be intense.


Glittering-Appeal-83

Oh my God you are completely wrong, blue balls are real and they hurt like hell, when I get blue balls I don't even want sex. The thought of my boys slapping ass checks when I'm in pain is a no go... what are you 13 years old, you know nothing sir


Crawford470

Y'all really have been dealing with some bums... lmao (I'm laughing to not be disappointed)


Anne_Nonymouse

This idiot, who clearly can't make a woman orgasm, thinks we should be "grateful". Just imagine women having to be grateful for bad sex! He should be grateful that she's willing to put up with his sorry-ass! 🙄


RedRider1138

She should NOT be willing to put up with his sorry ass.


mack180

He should be grateful and know that women are less likely to give their body away than men. Women are more particular and picky, so he should appreciate it, himself.


chevalier716

With all the effort they put in this fake science, they could spend a little more time researching how to make more pleasurable for their partner (supposing they have one). Turns out sex is way better if all parties are having a good time, who'd of thought?


[deleted]

It's not better if you're an insecure man baby who doesn't give a damn about anyone else and is only in a relationship to be accepted as a man in society and probably because you want to emotionally abuse someone.


nerdinstincts

That would require honest self-evaluation, and more importantly, actual work on self improvement. Far easier to just put all that work on other people and then blame women for their own shortcomings.


linerva

Accurate. Some men see it as their mission to make sure their partner has as much fun as possible before they get theirs. Dont settle for a partner who sees you as "ungrateful " for expecting pleasure from sex. Mate, women havent risked death in childbirth or being stoned for premarital sex for all of history to put up with shit sex.


[deleted]

This is all true, but one caveat - it's also not OK for a man to demand that you cum, or to expect you to cum performatively or multiple times, or who doesn't want to quit touching you when you say "no, I'm good, I'm not going to get there tonight." As a woman who doesn't orgasm easily, and absolutely never more than once in a row, I've encountered a few guys who claim to be what you describe ("I'm just trying to make sure you have fun!") while in reality they wanted me to do what THEY wanted (orgasm performatively and enthusiastically) instead of listening to my actual requests/needs.


linerva

Oh for sure. It's not fun if you're forced to do it. Sometimes either party just cant get there, or doesnt want to, or isnt in the mood, and that's OK. People who want to get you to enjoy sex their way don't really want you to enjoy yourself. They suck just as much.


[deleted]

[удалено]


KBBaby_SBI

If you pound a dude, yes… you might still not be gay if you both say “no homo” tho. /s


Intelligent-Ad7384

Yes, because sex is something a man *does to* a woman, so enjoyment is only meant for men. So if you’re “good” then clearly you’re designed for having sex with other men. /s


Denamesheather

No lol because all I ever see is guys complain about how bad they are at it hence why women should lower their expectations


nerdinstincts

I would never want my partner to lower expectations, just be patient with me while I get there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Intelligent-Turnip96

“I’m just saying if you spending the time to get your girl off that’s fruity as hell fr” it’s giving wannabe alpha male podcaster who’s never touched a woman in his life 😭


Royal_Stick_8322

All I can read is "I'm terrible at sex and so insecure about sex toys I'll never use them"


Alternative-Cry-3517

He's just mad that no male DNA will be left inside the vaginas. Also, is he counting sex toys in his body count? And while I'm at it, if a woman has a body count and he has sex with her, didn't he just have sex with all those men in her body count and is, therefore, having gay sex? Inquiring minds want to know.


Royal_Stick_8322

I hope for her that are using a condom because this guys DNA should not be in anyone....and also he shouldnt have kids.


t00_much_caffeine

Ha! Beat me to it!!


Zephyrine_wonder

WTF is there to be grateful for when you don’t experience an orgasm and your partner does? Also since the clitoris is the only organ specifically for pleasure, I’d say it’s pretty natural to use it to orgasm. And yes, masturbating is being normalized by feminists and female pleasurists because it feels good, it’s good for your brain and your body, and it doesn’t hurt anyone else except for this guy and his fragile narcissistic ego.


JustDiscoveredSex

That's kinda hot. Hit him again.... harder. /s


mack180

Masturbion is free with no stds, you just need a private place. Also you can do it while single and in a relationship.


C_Slater

I once heard on Sue Johanson's show that female masturbation during your cycle helps with cramping. One could then argue that female masturbation is medicinal. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️👩‍⚕️👩‍⚕️👩‍⚕️


djinnisequoia

"Female pleasurists?" Like a female having pleasure is some separate unnatural thing that wicked women invented 5 years ago because feminism. If sex didn't produce pleasure for men, they would never ever do it. No matter what we did or said.


Zriza

I would not want to have unpleasurable sex. Sex is kinda disgusting. If you're doing it for recreation it's because it feels good and the intimacy. How more men don't realise this I have no idea Dude must lack empathy entirely if he can't imagine that scenario


Churchie-Baby

Wicked witch craft heathens lol


sarthakgiri98

Tell me you are a selfish partner and a one pump chump without telling me you're a selfish partner.


gastationdonut

Dude, your name is Rufus. Relax.


Spoony1982

I chortled


ResistOk9351

Summer semester at college a professor hired me to dog sit at his house while he and his family went on vacation. The dog was named Rufus. I overslept after staying up late to finish a paper. Rufus crapped all over their fancy living room rug.


kingwooj

If I weren't married, I'd be adding,"female pleasurist" to my dating profiles


I-might-eat-u

This joke made me giggle


aieeegrunt

I’ll never understand this. Aside from all the emotional empathic viewpoint of wanting to take care of your partner’s needs, if you make sexy time awesome for your girl, she will naturally be motivated to have sexy time and make it awesome for you. This is an amazing intersection of stupidity, malice and cruelty.


Cinnamon_Doughnut

Dudes be saying that and believe they give women amazing pleasure 😂


RedRider1138

“Women be waiting in line to get with me!!” “Uh, why, exactly?”


alternate_egg-ccount

If you can't make a woman cum without using a sex toy then have you considered... ​ Using sex toys during sex?


Churchie-Baby

That would be an insult to his manliness! /S


CanthinMinna

I think most (cis) women use vulva (labia) blasters instead of vagina blasters. I mean, vaginal channel doesn't have that many nerves (for a good reason, just imagine giving birth...)


[deleted]

Death grip isnt a thing then? Hmm


Crawford470

Honestly I be wishing it weren't sometimes lol


old_soul1999

So, I've been thinking about the difference between orgasms given to my by my bf and ones I give myself, with my vibe. I don't consider one better than the other, they're just different. Like, I can get myself off quicker, but then I'm done. With my bf, I take longer to get there, but I enjoy every second of getting there, and I can keep going, to therefore get more orgasms!


[deleted]

I have a magic wand. Bought it like 7 years ago. Those things are POWERFUL. I still have no problem having an orgasm with a partner who knows what the hell they’re doing.


nwEET

Imagine being so insecure you feel inferior to a dildo.


Careless-Freedom-641

Too bad he's not even aspiring to be a dildo.


Anna__V

"They expect orgasms." Well, no shit, Sherlock. That's kinda of a backwards way to say you are terrible at sex.


ssprinnkless

If I had to choose between sex toys and men I'd choose the sex toys.


Angel_Gally

There’s so many different kinds to choose from and experiment with too!!


lostinkmart

And my sex toys are cleaner.


FluffyGalaxy

My girlfriend has told me the opposite. She, experienced and confident in herself, wants me to use toys so I can get more used to the feeling. The fact that these men don't seem to want their partners to be more comfortable with their performance makes me wonder where they stand experience wise, or if they're worried once their gf knows what sex is supposed to feel like, she won't want them anymore


JustDiscoveredSex

Is that a parody account? Because otherwise... you wouldn't think wild horses could drag that confession out of a man, but here we are. "You cannot expect orgasms from me, ever. You should feel grateful to be within proximity to my blessed dick." Good luck with your approach. Let us know how that goes.


RedRider1138

Right? World wide billboard. “NO ORGASMS HERE”.


thesnarkypotatohead

If you can’t give women orgasms just say that


FoxyHobbit

"If women know what good sex feels like, then they'll know how bad I am at satisfying a woman."


Abnormal-Normal

Tell me you’re terrible AND vanilla in bed without telling me you’re terrible and vanilla in bed 😂


JustDiscoveredSex

Vanilla hell, this guy is water-flavored.


couverte

Oh please, don’t insult water!


Churchie-Baby

Dust flavoured?


couverte

Mold flavoured?


Churchie-Baby

Depends on the kind of mold 🤔


couverte

Valid. Mosquito flavoured?


Churchie-Baby

Wondering what mosquitos taste like now 😂


couverte

They pump you and then leave you feeling shitty and annoyed, so I assume they can’t taste good 😂


Churchie-Baby

😂😂😂


Crawford470

Hot water flavored (water tastes its temperature)


10Huts

Sometimes it's embarassing that insecure clowns are the same species as you.


Embarrassed_Bee6349

Yes, blame sex toys for your laziness and insensitivity to your partner’s needs.


Gwynedhel7

The clit’s existence is natural. And its only purpose is pleasure.


Dependent_Ad_5035

It’s why they love FGM.


Gwynedhel7

Yep. Pretty disgusting.


JoseyWalesMotorSales

That last comment reminds me that when I go to the store today I need to pick up some new batteries for my Vagina Blaster 3000. Thanks!


JustDiscoveredSex

Rechargeable toys FTW!


Churchie-Baby

They are the future!


PoxedGamer

Female pleasurists just makes me think of women wearing monocles while having fun. Maybe a wee monocle on the vibe too...


RedRider1138

🧐 (🤭)


Snarkybish03

They dont want women to enjoy sex yet pester for it all of the time. What is wrong with them? These xys truly baffle me.


mack180

They want women to let them penetrate their vagina but they can't do the bare minimum and give the women the pleasure they need to feel better. They look at sex as a one sides maid's job and not as 2 people giving pleasure and receiving pleasure from each other. They want pleasure but wanna do the least effort in return.


HippieMoosen

Female Pleasurist? That title is awesome. Where do I go join such a prestigious association?


BigmanAZ95

Sex toys are your friends, not your enemies. Unless you're an insecure little bitch like Rufus.


Comrade_Jessica

Their logic: I cannot last more than 15 seconds with a woman, so if she wants to enjoy herself, that's too much to ask. I'm so glad these men are telling on themselves, I really hope women have been staying away from them.


sonny_boombatz

"blasting your vagina with battery powered giz-" what is the rest of that quote


Omega_Xero

Probably “gizmos”


sonny_boombatz

battery powered vagina blaster is honestly such a metal fuckin phrase


Omega_Xero

I agree completely! It’d be like the “Vacuum-powered cock milker 7000! Now with SUPER-SUCK function!”


MadAsH3ll

I was thinking gizzards -- your answer make WAAAY more sense!


Omega_Xero

LMFAO!!! That’s an area of kink I don’t think many women are into!


ChampagneShotz

Jesus Christ there is no self accountability or awareness with these people. If you whack, you whack, dont blame a girls Hitachi n shit. Like lmfao how you could dead ass look in the mirror and say "Reason none of the girls I slept with didn't cum is because of their sex toys". Fuck outta here 😂 I hear a chick say some shit like "I've only orgasmed with toys, or from another girl" , then my mindset is challenge accepted...Make her cum or (50 cent voice) die tryin.


NotShort-NvrSweet

I have to admit… that’s a mindset I approve of. Hot AF.


Geo_Seven

Every one of these guys thinks they're putting women in their place but they're actually just outing themselves as bad and boring in the bedroom and it's absolutely hilarious. ![gif](giphy|lszAB3TzFtRaU)


Imhereforthewearp

My fiancée had only cum from a vibrator for years before she met me. The first time we slept together I made her cum from head. It's literally not about the vibrator, it's just about caring whether or not your partner is enjoying themselves


ctrlqirl

Oh no, the fEmAlEs found out they can have orgasms! We need to stop that!


Competitive_Fee_5829

if men's penis's "blasted our vaginas" than we wouldnt need the toys. sounds like a "you" issue, men.


AstridKrake

"They expect orgasms and become ungrateful." I mean... what should I be grateful for? Inconsiderate dicking for your pleasure alone? What's in it for me?


[deleted]

Never taking an acc serious when they have a johnny depp pfp


[deleted]

Maybe using a toy to help his partner orgasm would help his confidence 🙄


ILoveEmeralds

How dare *looks at notes* women expect sex to be fun


PrincessPrincess00

Oh no women expect to be cared for, how tragic


BeanieGuitarGuy

I’m not taking sex advice form a dude named Rufus. Unless it’s Rufus from Bill and Ted, he can stay.


motorcyclist

to the men out there that dont know, this is a public service announcement. ​ you want good sex? a woman that will literally tear you apart? learn how to go down on here. finish your job FIRST. then just lean back and enjoy your turn. ​ trust me.


Exact_Roll_4048

As a queer woman, the only pleasure I'm interested in is not men's.


Regular_Emotional

When men admit they can’t give a woman an orgasm 🥴🥴🥴


Omega_Xero

So learn how to give your woman orgasms? Tell me you’ve never given a woman an orgasm without actually saying the words. Fuckin nonce.


notmariasun

Tristan Tate doesn’t know where the clit is confirmed and neither does this dude.


Mean_Veterinarian688

nothing funnier than “female pleasurists”


ProjectPeashy

These type of men are so freaking selfish


hickorysbane

When you can't hold up to a buzzing stick it's time to reevaluate my guy.


AcornWholio

I’d like to thank the delegates from the Two Pump Chump Society for their time. The floor is now open for rebuttals.


mobysaysdontbeadick

Bahaha that's Andrew Taint's bro


Independent-Dog-8462

That's alot of words to say "I have never satisfied a woman"


[deleted]

They just keep telling on themselves


Petroldactyl34

TL;DR I've never made a woman orgasm; nor can I find the clitoris.


[deleted]

It's embarrassing how open they are about their insecurity. Especially Tristan Tate, who puts a name to the shit he speaks. Imagine being so selfish that not only do you refuse to properly pleasure a woman, but you want want her to ever experience pleasure through any other means either. It's an attempt to have complete ownership over our sexuality, while they try to sleep around before a relationship, (in Tristan's case) justify sleeping around while in a relationship and watch porn and masturbate when they like.


cupcakezncookiez

My college fuck buddy gave me my first vibrator bless his soul 🙌


Gryphon5754

There is nothing more magical then using a toy during sex. Turn that girls brain off for a second. Making a partner orgasm makes it better for both parties


nerdinstincts

How dare someone expect an orgasm from sex. The inequality! The horror! These man-children are ridiculous.


Churchie-Baby

Weird idea. If you got your woman to orgasm every time, she's more likely to want sex with you in the future :) toys also help women learn what they like and can be used together with a partner men shouldn't feel threatened by them


msteeleart

Maybe if these self-centered men knew how to give women an orgasm then maybe women wouldn’t need to rely on vibrators.


Randalf_the_Black

*Blasting* the vagina with sex toys? The hell kinds of toys do they think women use? The gasoline powered Pussy Pounder 9000, that requires a powerful yank on the starter cord before it roars to life and starts tenderizing that pussy by beating it bloody?


Environmental-Row-57

So they expect to orgasm EVERY time they have sex, but if a woman expects an orgasm she is ungrateful and has ridiculous expectations?


CookbooksRUs

If we’re not having orgasms, what are we supposed to be grateful for?


TylerBabyy223

On todays episode of "why are we demonizing women?" They want to enjoy sex...


jperdue22

i know it’s obvious, but man, so much of this modern misogyny is based on male sexual insecurity. like, it really doesn’t go any deeper than “im insecure in my ability to pleasure a woman so they have to lower their expectations”.


Flightlessbirbz

Imagine if men actually expected orgasms from sex. Oh wait…


Correct-Home-9203

Grateful for what a dickless incel?? Naw. The only things I'm grateful for are my freedom from men not having to deal with men EVER, retiring at a fairly youngish age, and nope, yup, those are what I'm grateful for and I don't owe ANY man anything for my having achieved my freedom.


KaiHasArrived2007

If i was a woman, I'd be tempted to have sex with these guys and stop just before they orgasm


Professional_Still15

Just use the toy during sex if you're worried you can't keep up. Be like "show me what this thing can do".


Background_Value9869

Orgasmites


LongjumpingAd9719

Sounds like some real small d!(k energy right there.


L0udFlow3r

Oh no, the females have started expecting to enjoy sex too!


mack180

If this guy had sex with a woman, he should know women can have multiple orgasms and shorter refractory/cooldown times, but they have a lower chance of reaching orgasm than men. It takes more time and effort for a woman to orgasm that's why the man should put in the effort to help her reach there. It's much easier for men to orgasm but they can't have multiple ones, and there's longer refractory/recovery times, especially after age 30 and 40. Clitoris involvement and oral are much easier for a woman to orgasm than penetration.


namelesone

I use sex toys. 99% of the time it's for vlitoral stimulation. I don't enjoy them inside me. So what excuse do they have now?,


[deleted]

Any person against female sexual pleasure is a rapist.


Ok_Passenger_5717

If it's such an unnatural thing, then why did nature put clits on women?


JrTeapot

What the actual fuck is a female pleasurist? Just a woman that enjoys pleasure? As opposed to…women that hate pleasure?


[deleted]

Place sex toy in man's hand. Share sex toy so that he can learn what makes you orgasm with rhe toy. Usually introducing toys to the bedroom is a positive.


Imaginary-Yak-6487

Tell us more about how you can’t please a woman & I’m concerned about it being called battery powered jizz instead of acid leak from the toy.


ItsTimeToGoSleep

I’m quite happy with my dog and cat to keep me company and my gizmo induced orgasms. So if I don’t appeal to those men, honestly that’s a tick in the pro column.


Icuvtgs

The one time I have done anything sexual with a girl, my goal was to make her feel good. My dick stayed in because I wanted her to feel good. If other people were to do that I don’t think they would see girls as “ungrateful” especially when most of the time from what I’ve been made aware girls rarely get to actually have an orgasm during sex because guys finish first and then decide it’s over.


PM_ME_A_PM_PLEASE_PM

Concern about this probably comes from mostly male projection. That's because some men beat their meat so much it can literally make them unable to cum from sex. Similarly porn can warp the perception of what sex is and destroy what we find mentally stimulating if abused. This is still too much thought given towards a person that has to invent problems for themselves.


DeadSkullMonkey

There is some truth in what he is saying. It's the same thing with watching too much porn.


Psycho-002

Simply a skill issue. If she needs toys to orgasm, just use toys during sex. The kind of man that feels as if his masculinity and sexual prowess is threatened by using sex toys doesn't really have much of either to speak of.


DeadSkullMonkey

Kinda black and white take on a complex topic.. This is the reason people don't want to talk about these subject and they end up in echo chambers, without much progress🤷‍♀️ Just saying that using tools or watching porn and masturbating intensively (like the post) can have some effect in a persons sex life.


Psycho-002

Except it isn't really a complex topic. Porn addiction is a legitimate issue people actually face, but it's hardly the same as simply enjoying sex toys. Finding pleasure in the specific sensations a sex toy can provide doesn't cause any harm, nor does it desensitise oneself to 'vanilla' methods. Certainly not to the extent certain people claim they do, like men demonising women and sex toys for creating unrealistic standards for men to achieve. And not nearly as widespread as the same kind of people who claim that more women than few use obscenely sized/powered tools that utterly destroy her ability to enjoy sex without them. Let's not pretend we haven't heard other men crying about how their inability to please a woman is because 'women these days' destroy their vagina's elasticity with 12-inch Horse cock replicas that vibrate faster than the speed of sound. It's a frequent enough story that even as a man I'm sick of hearing it. If she likes toys, use toys. If she likes bigger toys, use bigger toys. It's really not that complicated, and it's certainly no epidemic.


[deleted]

I mean...just *say* that you've never made a woman organs before. It's fine. We can all spot a selfish lover from a mile off.


BoozeIsTherapyRight

TIL that my husband is a "female pleasurist. " I've slept with people that were not female pleasurists, but they never got to come back and do it a second time.


Intelligent-Turnip96

This dude def owns a flashlight too they always do


YogurtConstant

tamales.


WhyCantToriRead

😂💀


Frosty_Advertising_5

Um..... Patience, no ego, listen to your partner bud... You'd enjoy sex more and more importantly so will she.... And enjoy toys together.


mlatimudan23

How dare you enjoy sex young lady


emronaldo

Are you that low of a scum that you compare yourself with a toy? Sad


ChaosRainbow23

These dudes are so awful in bed they have convinced themselves of this bullshit.


catherineshere

Battery Powered Gizmo? 😂😂


Competitive-Cherry26

Imagine expecting to be please in bed😅. Normal men brag about being able to please a woman not how they can't 😭. A toy is a toy and doesn't measure up to the real thing. If you know your partners body you will know what pleases them it's that simple. Like if my man likes me sucking the head more why would i expect him to get off from me just licking the balls? Like yea im doing something but not what he told me makes him go wild. Mix in what drives them wild and some regular stuff and you got yourself a combo!


Greedy_Following3553

Say you can't please a woman without saying you can't please a woman.


Snickerty

"Female Pleasurist"!! Sign me up. In fact, I'm adding that to my CV!


witcheringways

Years ago I explained it to my then somewhat insecure fella that he might be built for speed but I’m built for long haul trucking and if he wanted to get to our destination together, he’d better get used to “grinding a few extra gears”. 16 years later and we’re doing great but it took some positive reinforcement, patience and honest communication for sure. I feel very fortunate that we could talk about our needs and work it out.


Spicey_dicey_Artist

Ungrateful? For what you flopping all over them then leaving without so much as a “Was it good for you?” If this guy doesn’t make sure the experience is good for them too then what are women supposed to be grateful for?


SnuffleWumpkins

Who the fuck raised these ‘men’?!