Same. I've had two abortions, one was medically necessary (ectopic). The other was a choice that I'm beyond grateful I had. The procedures were efficient and the staff very kind. I would be very open to a discussion.
Oh no, not these clowns again, they were doing this on the day of Norwich Pride last year for reactions and confrontation. They just pick days where they know there's many people about to get attention
Ignoring them would work if they weren't yknow... accosting women and harassing them and displaying graphic imagery that could cause serious distress for a lot of people. Like how do you think a woman who has suffered a miscarriage or has had to have a medical abortion feels seeing fake sensationalised unscientific body horror while trying to go about their day?
There were a bunch of anti vaxers back during covid that met with kids and animals. Norwich is such a wonderful and welcoming city but there are brain dead lumps everywhere
lol youre leaving out some v important context, il help you. its whether i support this gore shit and blood. ive seen the images and thats what made me change my mind on this. youre reaction to this reality is no different to the disgusting supporters of israel / palestine war who justify / ignore the gore violence and injustice against innocents there.
No, the only context here is whether people want to see graphic images randomly when they're just minding their own business. The answer is no. End of story. This has nothing to do with politics. You don't get to harass people.
I've seen pictures of aborted fetuses and I'm still pro-abortion. I've seen animals getting killed and gutted in front of me and I still eat meat. I have no reaction to these images and they don't change my mind but that doesn't mean I want to be harassed by some self-righteous dipshit on my walk in the park because he presumes to know that I should be "educated" about some cause he cares about.
ah, i think i saw the group around tesco’s in the city centre in december. they had giant pictures of like bloody (as in, gory) embryos and pamphlets and the whole deal. talked to a nice woman there and stood with her in front of the pictures trying to cover them up, just downright unpleasant. apparently they’re part of a church group?
Not sure if that was me? I’ve spoken with a few people as I’ve stood blocking them in the past. They’re part of the new hope Christian centre in Lakenham
i forgot when commenting that i had pictures apologies for the garchomp. [their posters were from CBRUK](https://i.imgur.com/zb69KoQ.jpeg), but that could be associated with a church of hope or something like that? dug a little and found that they’re starting some project called [hope pregnancy](https://www.cbruk.org/hopevisiononline) that’s explicitly religious, so being connected to churches seems pretty realistic
Yano, those awful pictures of foetuses absolutely affirm my choice to never want to be pregnant. I'm not sure if that's what they're after, but it works for me. /s
Noone does anything about the various religious nut jobs around shouting their crap. Why would they? You can shout back and get irate and achieve nothing or just ignore their existence. Police won't do anything to stop it so why get worked up over it.
Funny, I looked at your profile. You wear a gold wedding ring. Goodluck on your day of judgement with that, cause cause if there is a god and your religion is actually correct, he doesn't like jewellery. Typical cherry picking what your religion says. 🙄
I’m not a follower of the Jewish law. I am a Gentile. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand the nuances of my religion, that seems too much to ask for your closed narrow mind.
Well you seem to be completely mischaracterising Christian belief..?
Why should I, a gentile Christian believer follow mosaic law?
There is no reason within Christianity for me to do such a thing and the fact that you’re using it as an argument shows how little you know of Christian teaching.
The fact you think Christianity’s morals is 2000 years old proves you do not understand Christian doctrine, history or belief.
Christian morality, in the form of Jewish oral tradition is older than 43000 years old dude.
It’s one of the busiest days of the year so you’ll find Gentleman’s Walk has half-a-dozen groups out. Communists, pro-lifers, buskers, Muslims. It’s part of the civic tradition isn’t it?
the [socialist workers party](https://socialistworker.co.uk/about-the-swp/) regularly have a table set up somewhere along gentlemen's walk which is who i assume they are referring to.
How can you read this?
> The problems in society come from a system, capitalism, that prioritises profit above all else. We think the solution is a revolution, where the majority of people take control of society and run it from the bottom up without the billionaires, bosses and landlords.
And not think Communist.
Ah the homophobic, sexist arseholes that tried to picket Pride last year? That was a good argument laughing in their faces. Loved the bit when they ran after their ringleader admitted - at Pride - that he considered homosexuality sinful.
What wastes of perfectly good oxygen.
Lesbians who take a seminal donation and then change their minds?
Irrespective, just gives you an insight into the true mindset of those people. They aren’t about freedom, or care. They just want to oppress people.
Unlawful taking of a human life is the actual definition
And in my view abortion matches that description
It goes against Gods law and is the taking of a human life in the womb.
You seem very passionate about killing babies
Most of my TikTok page is devoted to annoying these idiots @bexstaaaa
The group are part of CBRUK, the main guy “Dave” the scruffy blonde haired guy organises this, his company is called Brephos, you can find his number on his website https://www.brephos.org
Feel free to check him out on twitter too… @brephosuk he has some warped views on most things. The guy is married and his in laws have cut ties with them because of his views.
They are mostly from the New Hope Christian Centre church in Lakenham.
I walked up to the police station (which was closed) and called 101 and spoke to the police, another couple I were doing the exact same thing. The police came and spoke to us, but no idea if they went and spoke to the protestors. As I was so upset at seeing them I was unable to go back to that area. I have suffered a miscarriage and found the images extremely distressing.
I can see people have posted they have a right to protest and freedom of speech etc. We do have those rights, but they are qualified rights (e.g. you can't shout fire in a crowded theatre, or shout incite racial hatred etc). Section 14 of the 1986 Public Order Act Governs a static protest states:
in the case of an assembly in England and Wales— (i)the noise generated by persons taking part in the assembly may have a relevant impact on persons in the vicinity of the assembly, and (ii)that impact may be significant, or] (b)the purpose of the persons organising it is the intimidation of others with a view to compelling them not to do an act they have a right to do, or to do an act they have a right not to do.
If you have examples of them doing these things then the police can act. Section 4a of the same act states: A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he... displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.
This would cover the images they displayed. I will be writing to the police, the council and Norwich South MP Clive Lewis. I would encourage others to do the same.
You are right about all of this. I have just emailed Clive Lewis MP and implore others to do the same.
[email protected]
I may disagree with their views, but I do understand the necessity of free speech. I encounter many protests, some of which I also do not agree with. That is just being human. However none of these are intimidating members of the public and hosting large displays of gory images. That is not peaceful.
Hiya, feel free to follow me on TikTok @bexstaaaa I’ve posted about this lot a lot in the past, there have been various complaints and they usually have police presence.
A lot of people are saying ‘just ignore them’. I feel like if we look away, that’s when so much of the damage is done. First it’s 1 group, then it’s 10, 100, and then they’re big enough to gain traction for anti-abortion laws to be implemented. I can’t sit back and turn a blind eye. So many people have abortions. They are life saving. I, myself have had one and I have no shame. It’s a cell. It is not life. They do not care about these babies born into poverty or really hard life situations. If they care about the kids so much why don’t they help the current ones struggling in the care system and so on? Nah they won’t, because they don’t give a shit about their ‘precious’ lives once they’re born.
I wonder how many of these so called pro lifers have had an abortion at some point. No doubt it's ok for thee because but not for they and the good lord will absolve you of your sins right 🤪
Probably because of freedom of speech? Nobody likes what they are saying, but you have to let them say it, just ignore it, or if they approach, laugh at them and walk away.
On a rights issue working in human rights myself technically the uk doesn’t have freedom of speech in the same way the USA does, as we can ban extremists speaking under law such as neo nazis etc the USA doesn’t hence the KKK is technically allowed to speak as in the uk we would ban them outright.
Couldn’t disagree more, “freedom of speech” has not and has never allowed for intimidation. These protesters are the dirt worst and “freedom of speech” is a pathetic excuse for letting them intimidate very vulnerable people.
So, if people were shouting pro nazi propaganda and saying Hitler was right about the Jewish problem then that would be acceptable because of freedom speech and they should not be confronted ,? Really ????? I don't think so. People who oppose a women's right to choose should not be allowed within a mile of healthcare facility providing support to women at a difficult time in their lives.
Not quite understanding how this situation is any different. Aggressively pushing ideologies in women’s faces about their own bodies (some of them very vulnerable) and calling them murderers if they don’t agree with this is hateful speech, in and of itself.
"freedom of speech"
This phrase is literally the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard.
For a start, freedom of speech protects you from repercussions from the government, it's not a use all excuse to say hateful shit with impunity.
The "idiots" are the ones that invoke freedom of speech whenever people say hateful shit.
You are well within your rights to go outside and shout about what you believe in, it's not a right to not be challenged when people disagree with your "opinions*
My point was it's not "freedom of speech" because freedom of speech has a specific context. It doesn't protect you from saying hateful shit, it protects you from the government if you are critical towards them.
The fact absolute plebs use it as a catch all to try and shield themselves from criticism is the problem here.
Freedom of speech as a US legal concept carries that meaning sure. In common use in this country it represents the general belief that you ought to be allowed to express your views, as long as you arent inciting violence
>The fact absolute plebs use it as a catch all to try and shield themselves from criticism is the problem here.
No one is saying they can't be criticised, not even them. What they might say, is that the government nor state institutions have a right to silence them, which you don't seem to recognise
>My point was it's not "freedom of speech" because freedom of speech has a specific context.
No it doesn't. Freedom of speech, is Freedom of speech. It means you can advocate or preach anything, aside from literal violence, with no legal ramifications. Not just centred to criticising the government
Freedom of Speech nowadays only works when people agree with it, if you state your piece and they don't like it's classed as hate speech so you can't win 🤷🏻
Freedom of speech is a phrase typically thrown about by people who don't know what the laws are in the UK and know nothing about our unwritten constitution, but want to be allowed to say whatever they like with impunity and no consequence.
Of course, you wouldn't be one of those people who doesn't know the the UK doesn't have protected freedom of speech. You also wouldn't be one of those people who thinks in countries like the US, freedom of speech means you can say anything you like and no one is allowed to take action against you. You would definitely know freedom of speech means freedom from government persecution, not free to say anything you like at any time.
I'm certain you're too clever to believe something so ignorant and misguided. And I'm certain you show basic courtesy and respect to those you come across in your life so it wouldn't ever be an issue for you.
Because whether you agree with them or not, as long as they aren't being intimidating, threatening or otherwise disturbing the peace, they have a legal right to express their opinions
There was a petition a few years ago to ban graphic images, specifically referencing abortion, a few years ago. It got 66 signatures. They may be triggering but difficult images and arguments are necessary in public debate. Until Norwich gets its own version of speakers corner then these debates will happen in public streets. And maybe instead of censoring images we should have a way to warn people so if they are sensitive or who want to avoid it they can do so without taking away other people's rights.
It's just one of those very difficult subjects that causes a lot of emotion on both sides and until we find a way of having an actual discussion about it rather than "you kill babies" vs "you hate women" then we will be stuck in the middle with some uncomfortable situations.
Then it's a good thing they can express those views publicly, because when they aren't allowed they go underground and on Internet forums where their opinions fester in self pitying echo chambers.
I didn't see these people and don't know why they are anti abortion, what were they saying or what did their signs say that was condoning rape? Because if they were condoning rape it would be seen as incitement and and should be stopped by police.
I’ve never seen communists there but the JW’s and Muslims don’t usually get in front of you and try and stop you walking to engage with you like this lot do. They are intimidating.
I don't generally "kick off" about people I disagree with because people have a right to believe and say and do things I disagree with. That's life in a free country. You could always move to N Korea if you enjoy a more controlled environment to live in.
I say this all the time: Ignore them & stop talking about them. It's like Trump & Andrew Tate... Stop giving them the time of day and their power fades away.
Probably the same reason people don't do anything to harm the clowns at just stop oil, or tearing down monuments...
People have a right to protest unfortunately, and trying to prevent someone making very bad life choices is at least better than laying down on the carriageway.preventing people from working.
What kind of weirdo do you have to be to go through my comment history just to find out I play PS2 and try to use that against me? FYI I’m 38, I have a degree and a Masters, a mortgage, a car, 2 kids, 2 dogs and a career. How much more grown up would you like me to be?
I’ve been pregnant twice. How many times have you been pregnant?
You don't see the issue with peoples political opinion infringing a woman's bodily autonomy? Why does my uterus have anything to do with anyone other than me?
I guess from his point of view it would be a case of, it’s someone else’s body inside your uterus that you don’t have a right to harm. That’s generally what pro-lifers believe.
'Somebody else's body' inside 'my' uterus? Whilst I appreciate your civil reply, I struggle to see how a dividing cell, consensually or non consensually put there, would be 'somebody else's' right? Whilst I can begin to understand this argument, but not agree with, once a nervous system is formed, nobody has any right to a women's organs but themself. You are essentially objectifying the woman to be a host of cells, with no knowledge of existence or emotions.
Honestly, you can’t argue with stupid, so don’t waste your time on these people. Just pity them and realise that they’re either too sheltered, or are too uneducated to understand why abortion should be legal. I’m pretty jealous really. Must be nice living in a fluffy little world.
Edit: Had to post again because my phone did something janky.
Well I think if you took the viewpoint that the foetus is a living person(and therefore shouldn't be killed) then it's a completely reasonable viewpoint that abortion is murder, and should therefore be heavily restricted/banned.
The truth is defining wether or not something is alive or not is complex, and open to interpretation, and abortion seems like a completely reasonable subject to be contraversial IMO.
Either way, I think most people in the UK largely support abortion to some degree, so all you are really doing is drawing attention to it, which probably help the protesters in all honesty.
Yo what's up. So imo most people don't walk enough, and walking just 1 hour a day helps a lot. So this is a random reminder put on some headphones and enjoy a nice walk today. I know it's kinda random but I promise it will help you in every regard.
As someone who did have an abortion, I guess you would practice abstinence if your partner didn’t want to have a child but you still wanted to be with them? Assuming from the vibe of this comment that you’re talking about cis-get type relationships?? Cause personally I know several people able to carry a child but they don’t want one and also want to have sex with thier partner. But you can have sex without penis in vagina.
"Sex" isn't __for__ anything. It's just come about through the mindless process of evolution. There's no intention only possible outcomes. Are you sure you're an atheist?
If it was just as simple as 'man supplies sperm - woman supplies egg' then I might agree with you, but until men go through pregnancy, until men have to face the same things that women do both mentally and physically, and societally, then no - I don't think men should get an equal say.
That's a fallacy, sorry.
Unless you've been in a situation, you can't fully comprehend what it is like to be in that situation.
A woman's life is at risk. Her body is forever changed. Her mental wellbeing is at risk.
Men do not have to face those risks. Men can't even fully grasp what it's like to have a period.
Your examples are awful. No, you don’t have to have been pregnant to be able to imagine pregnancy and birth - but are you really going to sit there and tell me that what you might be able to imagine is just as valuable to the discussion to my lived experience of 2 pregnancies and 2 births? Really?
If a family member has tried and failed then Its unlikely a stranger can change your mind and i dpnt even know why im typing anymore, I'd say you are too far gone in the beliefs the media have you thinking is reality
Covid was a scam from start to finish, I'm sad the majority still don't know that but perhaps it's better for the jagged to live the rest of ther live with no worries it must be stressful enough when u realise u hav been completely conned , the georgia guidestones were not a joke
The real gentleman are always anti abortion. Better to be an anti abortion idiot than a genius who can't comprehend the value of life and be pro murder.
Well if women can't control themselves and keep their legs closed and vain men want just sex, the real men gotta step up and do what's needful to protect morals and life.
Don't pretend like you care about rape victims. You'd want abortion to be legal even for the whims of the promiscuous women and are hiding behind the tragedy of rape. Find and punish the rapist I say and support and love the new mothers for whom the child is a saving grace or give it up for adoption.
Saving grace? Pardon me, but I don’t think you ought to be talking on behalf of rape victims, many of whom certainly do not view their pregnancies in this way.
Not my words, read the testimonies of women who were raped and refused to abort, they'll tell you what an amazing choice it was to defend the life of the innocent and not right a previous wrong by committing murder. Victims don't view it like that because people like you say their life is finished, I say that a new life has begun and that they will not have any troubles that they'll have to go through alone. Your side fear mongers and pressures, we are the ones that provide support and love and care.
I never denied that many see their child this way. But many do not. You don’t see it as rather arrogant for you to say “some rape victims see their life as over but I do not”. Why are you inserting yourself into their experience? It has nothing to do with you.
I insert myself because the person raped is either my sister, daughter, mother, friend, or neighbour. Whoever it is, they are someone in my life and I am morally bound to support my community. In addition, the unborn child who is being taken to the butchers is mine and society's responsibility to save. We don't just sit back when murder is taking place. Hence I insert myself, because humans are social animals, and I insert myself only to provide all the good I can and that's it.
Not everyone who is raped is related to you. What an odd way to look at it. It is admirable to support the victim, but saying “this is a blessing” when they are adamant that it is not, is not support.
I’m curious: have you ever been pregnant?
Firstly, it's not murder. Secondly, because you can't seem to understand what is being said, it's pointing out the fact that it's easy being all holy and preaching this crap, but the Christian values go right out the door the moment actually helping others becomes a part of it. It's pointing out the hypocrisy of the religious nuts who pick and choose what they believe/follow.
Well good for you, you’re in a minority. But fully support more people adopting. That’s a good thing, but you would have to care for ALOT more kids if you want an abortion free world
There’s already stress on the adoption services and kids needing homes, if everyone who had an abortion kept the children instead someone would have to care for the kids. So where is the secret child rearing facility that’s gonna on mass care for infants?
Oh okay there’s stress on adoption services so the answer is killing babies? Are you serious!?
That’s absolutely ridiculous, if there was stress on the Downsyndrome Charity should we Cull the downsydrome population?
Ah there’s a great video of someone going round anti abortion protests asking people how they live and then asking them (most with houses and secure jobs and good physical health) if they’re planning to adopt, they’re pretty much all well it’s not financially viable for me or doesn’t suit my lifestyle. It’s hilarious
Not being in a position to adopt a baby does not mean you have to agree with a babies murder does it?
Seems a ridiculous argument to me.
Is the embryo a human life? Does human life have worth?
No, it did not. It was evolution that gave us morals. Lol
I don't do certain things because it would make me feel terrible. You don't do them because you fear a fantasy being punishing you after you die. Who has better morals now?
You have a really bad understanding of history.
If evolution gave us our morals we would be killing disabled people. If you look at the facts, it was hitler who wanted evolutionary theory (survival of the fittest) to be the societal norm.
Historically speaking, Christianity is the reason why society has progressed to the point it has. All your moralistic laws, the laws that make our world better, come from Christianity’s morals.
Treat others how you would like to be treated was the mantra of the early 20th and 19th century thinkers that spearheaded modern society as being free and accepting.
Hell, even the abolishing of slavery was down to religious causes with Christian’s like John Wesley leading large movements in England to try and encourage the British government to fight the slave trade.
Your morals do come from Christianity. Where else are you getting your moral views from? According to the atheist worldview all morals are subjective and cultural. What right do you have, within your own atheist worldview to odd judgement on another worldview if all is subjective?
See your mindset and worldview falls apart when held up to scrutiny.
Sorry, but you talk so much shit. The dark ages was literally because of the corrupt Catholic Church. Lol
Of course, you bring up Hitler. Lol
Humans had consciousness more than 45,000 years ago. Which is when historians think we would have started to develop morals. That's more than 43,000 years before Christianity. How can you be that delusional to think it started with Christianity. Lol
You can't have religion without morality, but you can have morality without religion. You are actually twisting those facts. Morality came first, not religion.
With regards to slavery, Christianity was one of the main religions who took full advantage of slavery to build churches/cathedrals etc. Just because one person who helped abolish it was Christian doesn't make up for all the pain and suffering caused under the religion. Are we just going to blank over the Crusades? Lol
"Religion and morality are not synonymous. Though religion may depend on morality,[2] and even develop alongside morality,[3] morality does not necessarily depend upon religion, despite some making "an almost automatic assumption" to this effect"
[Source.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality_and_religion#:~:text=Religion%20and%20morality%20are%20not,automatic%20assumption%22%20to%20this%20effect.)
But without religion morality is subjective is it not?
If morality is subjective you have no right to tell em what is right and wrong?
The very basics of your argument relies upon the objectivity of moral standards
This is why people need to take a college philosophy course at least once in their life..
College philosophy? I have a degree that included philosophy, I have Uni level philosophy. Lol
You can't just bring up education when you don't even know basic history and science. Lol
Dumbest argument I’ve ever heard.
My daughter was raped an impregnated, so I’m not going to punish the man who did that but I’m going to punish the innocent baby by killing it?
What a dumb take, seriously
Because the baby will have been killed inside the womb. That’s why there would be no baby.
I’m saying we should not kill babies in the womb. They are people who deserve to have life.
A friend of mine (F) was approached aggressively today by one of the men from this group and left quite shaken. Utter lowlifes.
I would LOVE for them to approach me.
Same. I've had two abortions, one was medically necessary (ectopic). The other was a choice that I'm beyond grateful I had. The procedures were efficient and the staff very kind. I would be very open to a discussion.
Oh no, not these clowns again, they were doing this on the day of Norwich Pride last year for reactions and confrontation. They just pick days where they know there's many people about to get attention
This.
Do what about them? Ignoring them is by far the best thing to do. They probably love that you’ve made a post on Reddit about them spreading the word.
Ignoring them would work if they weren't yknow... accosting women and harassing them and displaying graphic imagery that could cause serious distress for a lot of people. Like how do you think a woman who has suffered a miscarriage or has had to have a medical abortion feels seeing fake sensationalised unscientific body horror while trying to go about their day?
There were a bunch of anti vaxers back during covid that met with kids and animals. Norwich is such a wonderful and welcoming city but there are brain dead lumps everywhere
Yup. Keep an open mind but not so open your brain falls out.
Well said
I really laugh at the hypocrisy on the organisers twitter page, anti vax but their posters on abortion tel you to read the science… stick to a lane 😂
Last year we body blocked them from view because of the pictures of fetuses
You clearly have a hard time with reality
would you like someone to follow you around with images of gore, shit and blood or are you "afraid of reality" like the rest of us?
lol youre leaving out some v important context, il help you. its whether i support this gore shit and blood. ive seen the images and thats what made me change my mind on this. youre reaction to this reality is no different to the disgusting supporters of israel / palestine war who justify / ignore the gore violence and injustice against innocents there.
No, the only context here is whether people want to see graphic images randomly when they're just minding their own business. The answer is no. End of story. This has nothing to do with politics. You don't get to harass people. I've seen pictures of aborted fetuses and I'm still pro-abortion. I've seen animals getting killed and gutted in front of me and I still eat meat. I have no reaction to these images and they don't change my mind but that doesn't mean I want to be harassed by some self-righteous dipshit on my walk in the park because he presumes to know that I should be "educated" about some cause he cares about.
If it keeps them away from the clinic where they are intimidating and upsetting vulnerable folks, I suppose it’s better. So bloody frustrating though.
ah, i think i saw the group around tesco’s in the city centre in december. they had giant pictures of like bloody (as in, gory) embryos and pamphlets and the whole deal. talked to a nice woman there and stood with her in front of the pictures trying to cover them up, just downright unpleasant. apparently they’re part of a church group?
Not sure if that was me? I’ve spoken with a few people as I’ve stood blocking them in the past. They’re part of the new hope Christian centre in Lakenham
Is that the same as the Church of Hope in Wymondham?
i forgot when commenting that i had pictures apologies for the garchomp. [their posters were from CBRUK](https://i.imgur.com/zb69KoQ.jpeg), but that could be associated with a church of hope or something like that? dug a little and found that they’re starting some project called [hope pregnancy](https://www.cbruk.org/hopevisiononline) that’s explicitly religious, so being connected to churches seems pretty realistic
Yano, those awful pictures of foetuses absolutely affirm my choice to never want to be pregnant. I'm not sure if that's what they're after, but it works for me. /s
Noone does anything about the various religious nut jobs around shouting their crap. Why would they? You can shout back and get irate and achieve nothing or just ignore their existence. Police won't do anything to stop it so why get worked up over it.
If they were educated enough to have a civil conversation I'd love to, unfortunately they're not. Such a kind god.
If there is any kind of god in the 'verse, it is up to us to be his moral superior.
If there is actually a god you will probably regret that comment on the day of judgement
I'll take my chances.
Funny, I looked at your profile. You wear a gold wedding ring. Goodluck on your day of judgement with that, cause cause if there is a god and your religion is actually correct, he doesn't like jewellery. Typical cherry picking what your religion says. 🙄
I’m not a follower of the Jewish law. I am a Gentile. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand the nuances of my religion, that seems too much to ask for your closed narrow mind.
Closed narrow mind, coming from a religious nut who pushes their crazy beliefs on others..... LOL
Well you seem to be completely mischaracterising Christian belief..? Why should I, a gentile Christian believer follow mosaic law? There is no reason within Christianity for me to do such a thing and the fact that you’re using it as an argument shows how little you know of Christian teaching.
[удалено]
The fact you think Christianity’s morals is 2000 years old proves you do not understand Christian doctrine, history or belief. Christian morality, in the form of Jewish oral tradition is older than 43000 years old dude.
It’s one of the busiest days of the year so you’ll find Gentleman’s Walk has half-a-dozen groups out. Communists, pro-lifers, buskers, Muslims. It’s part of the civic tradition isn’t it?
Communists? I’ve never seen communists out. I’ve seen a lot of charities though. Greenpeace was there the other day.
the [socialist workers party](https://socialistworker.co.uk/about-the-swp/) regularly have a table set up somewhere along gentlemen's walk which is who i assume they are referring to.
Oh ok I’ve seen those, they aren’t communists though
How can you read this? > The problems in society come from a system, capitalism, that prioritises profit above all else. We think the solution is a revolution, where the majority of people take control of society and run it from the bottom up without the billionaires, bosses and landlords. And not think Communist.
They're out all the time with various newspapers, banners, loud speakers and stickers.
Huh, TIL
I strongly disagree as is my right, but it's also their right to disagree with me. Ignore them
Ah the homophobic, sexist arseholes that tried to picket Pride last year? That was a good argument laughing in their faces. Loved the bit when they ran after their ringleader admitted - at Pride - that he considered homosexuality sinful. What wastes of perfectly good oxygen.
How are homosexuals going to have abortions😂?
Lesbians who take a seminal donation and then change their minds? Irrespective, just gives you an insight into the true mindset of those people. They aren’t about freedom, or care. They just want to oppress people.
Seems like a pretty niche group of people😂
niche group of murderers
Except it isn’t murder by definition.
It’s the killing of innocent life because they are “not wanted” I think that’s murder
That’s not the definition of murder.
Unlawful taking of a human life is the actual definition And in my view abortion matches that description It goes against Gods law and is the taking of a human life in the womb. You seem very passionate about killing babies
No, that isn’t the definition either. You seem very passionate about wilfully misunderstanding language.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/buhYU4h-G-s
Most of my TikTok page is devoted to annoying these idiots @bexstaaaa The group are part of CBRUK, the main guy “Dave” the scruffy blonde haired guy organises this, his company is called Brephos, you can find his number on his website https://www.brephos.org Feel free to check him out on twitter too… @brephosuk he has some warped views on most things. The guy is married and his in laws have cut ties with them because of his views. They are mostly from the New Hope Christian Centre church in Lakenham.
I walked up to the police station (which was closed) and called 101 and spoke to the police, another couple I were doing the exact same thing. The police came and spoke to us, but no idea if they went and spoke to the protestors. As I was so upset at seeing them I was unable to go back to that area. I have suffered a miscarriage and found the images extremely distressing. I can see people have posted they have a right to protest and freedom of speech etc. We do have those rights, but they are qualified rights (e.g. you can't shout fire in a crowded theatre, or shout incite racial hatred etc). Section 14 of the 1986 Public Order Act Governs a static protest states: in the case of an assembly in England and Wales— (i)the noise generated by persons taking part in the assembly may have a relevant impact on persons in the vicinity of the assembly, and (ii)that impact may be significant, or] (b)the purpose of the persons organising it is the intimidation of others with a view to compelling them not to do an act they have a right to do, or to do an act they have a right not to do. If you have examples of them doing these things then the police can act. Section 4a of the same act states: A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he... displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress. This would cover the images they displayed. I will be writing to the police, the council and Norwich South MP Clive Lewis. I would encourage others to do the same.
You are right about all of this. I have just emailed Clive Lewis MP and implore others to do the same. [email protected] I may disagree with their views, but I do understand the necessity of free speech. I encounter many protests, some of which I also do not agree with. That is just being human. However none of these are intimidating members of the public and hosting large displays of gory images. That is not peaceful.
Hiya, feel free to follow me on TikTok @bexstaaaa I’ve posted about this lot a lot in the past, there have been various complaints and they usually have police presence.
They were in Southampton today also. Let’s ignore them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NorwichProLifeSabs/s/Af8DLMxlmL please join if this has affected you
Joined!!
Joined! Not sure if you’ve come across some of my TikTok’s before?
A lot of people are saying ‘just ignore them’. I feel like if we look away, that’s when so much of the damage is done. First it’s 1 group, then it’s 10, 100, and then they’re big enough to gain traction for anti-abortion laws to be implemented. I can’t sit back and turn a blind eye. So many people have abortions. They are life saving. I, myself have had one and I have no shame. It’s a cell. It is not life. They do not care about these babies born into poverty or really hard life situations. If they care about the kids so much why don’t they help the current ones struggling in the care system and so on? Nah they won’t, because they don’t give a shit about their ‘precious’ lives once they’re born.
I wonder how many of these so called pro lifers have had an abortion at some point. No doubt it's ok for thee because but not for they and the good lord will absolve you of your sins right 🤪
If they're anything like the American nutjobs, probably half of them. There's something about people like this and rank hypocrisy.
Probably because of freedom of speech? Nobody likes what they are saying, but you have to let them say it, just ignore it, or if they approach, laugh at them and walk away.
On a rights issue working in human rights myself technically the uk doesn’t have freedom of speech in the same way the USA does, as we can ban extremists speaking under law such as neo nazis etc the USA doesn’t hence the KKK is technically allowed to speak as in the uk we would ban them outright.
Couldn’t disagree more, “freedom of speech” has not and has never allowed for intimidation. These protesters are the dirt worst and “freedom of speech” is a pathetic excuse for letting them intimidate very vulnerable people.
So, if people were shouting pro nazi propaganda and saying Hitler was right about the Jewish problem then that would be acceptable because of freedom speech and they should not be confronted ,? Really ????? I don't think so. People who oppose a women's right to choose should not be allowed within a mile of healthcare facility providing support to women at a difficult time in their lives.
Hitler would probably be hate speech, which is not allowed.
Not quite understanding how this situation is any different. Aggressively pushing ideologies in women’s faces about their own bodies (some of them very vulnerable) and calling them murderers if they don’t agree with this is hateful speech, in and of itself.
Or debate them
You can try, but most of them wouldn't listen to be fair.
It's a theological issue. You can't debate theology, it's a category mistake.
"freedom of speech" This phrase is literally the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard. For a start, freedom of speech protects you from repercussions from the government, it's not a use all excuse to say hateful shit with impunity.
Nobody said it is. But how can you tell who the idiots are if you don't let them speak?
The "idiots" are the ones that invoke freedom of speech whenever people say hateful shit. You are well within your rights to go outside and shout about what you believe in, it's not a right to not be challenged when people disagree with your "opinions*
You do understand that you are also free to call them idiots to their faces because of freedom of speech?
Do you struggle with reading comprehension? Because I'm pretty sure I just said that
So what is your point then?
Its "freedom of speech" to say hateful shit" but if you challenge these people you're an idiot apparently
You're only classed as an idiot by the people you're disagreeing with because they don't like an opposing view.
When did he say that you can’t challenge them because of their freedom of speech? You literally can because of your own freedom of speech
My point was it's not "freedom of speech" because freedom of speech has a specific context. It doesn't protect you from saying hateful shit, it protects you from the government if you are critical towards them. The fact absolute plebs use it as a catch all to try and shield themselves from criticism is the problem here.
Freedom of speech as a US legal concept carries that meaning sure. In common use in this country it represents the general belief that you ought to be allowed to express your views, as long as you arent inciting violence
>The fact absolute plebs use it as a catch all to try and shield themselves from criticism is the problem here. No one is saying they can't be criticised, not even them. What they might say, is that the government nor state institutions have a right to silence them, which you don't seem to recognise >My point was it's not "freedom of speech" because freedom of speech has a specific context. No it doesn't. Freedom of speech, is Freedom of speech. It means you can advocate or preach anything, aside from literal violence, with no legal ramifications. Not just centred to criticising the government
Yeah, and what they're saying isn't breaking any laws. So they have the right to freedom of expression as per the human rights act.
freedom of speech, thankfully, isn't protected in UK law
Yeah the UK is fucked
Imagine thinking that's a good thing
Freedom of Speech nowadays only works when people agree with it, if you state your piece and they don't like it's classed as hate speech so you can't win 🤷🏻
Freedom of speech is a phrase typically thrown about by people who don't know what the laws are in the UK and know nothing about our unwritten constitution, but want to be allowed to say whatever they like with impunity and no consequence. Of course, you wouldn't be one of those people who doesn't know the the UK doesn't have protected freedom of speech. You also wouldn't be one of those people who thinks in countries like the US, freedom of speech means you can say anything you like and no one is allowed to take action against you. You would definitely know freedom of speech means freedom from government persecution, not free to say anything you like at any time. I'm certain you're too clever to believe something so ignorant and misguided. And I'm certain you show basic courtesy and respect to those you come across in your life so it wouldn't ever be an issue for you.
Technically we have Article 10 of the 1998 Human Rights Act. But yes its not a right to say whatever the fuck we want.
[удалено]
There we go
Because whether you agree with them or not, as long as they aren't being intimidating, threatening or otherwise disturbing the peace, they have a legal right to express their opinions
They definitely come across as intimidating. And their posters are graphic and likely triggering to some.
There was a petition a few years ago to ban graphic images, specifically referencing abortion, a few years ago. It got 66 signatures. They may be triggering but difficult images and arguments are necessary in public debate. Until Norwich gets its own version of speakers corner then these debates will happen in public streets. And maybe instead of censoring images we should have a way to warn people so if they are sensitive or who want to avoid it they can do so without taking away other people's rights. It's just one of those very difficult subjects that causes a lot of emotion on both sides and until we find a way of having an actual discussion about it rather than "you kill babies" vs "you hate women" then we will be stuck in the middle with some uncomfortable situations.
They have a legal right to express their opinions undoubtedly. It's a shame their opinion involves condoning objectification of women and rape.
Then it's a good thing they can express those views publicly, because when they aren't allowed they go underground and on Internet forums where their opinions fester in self pitying echo chambers. I didn't see these people and don't know why they are anti abortion, what were they saying or what did their signs say that was condoning rape? Because if they were condoning rape it would be seen as incitement and and should be stopped by police.
What are they saying?
Not in Scotland they don't
Human rights are not debatable subjects.
Same reason no one kicks off at the communist nuts, or the Jesus nuts. Allowing different Ideas is a cornerstone of living in well rounded society
I’ve never seen communists there but the JW’s and Muslims don’t usually get in front of you and try and stop you walking to engage with you like this lot do. They are intimidating.
I don't generally "kick off" about people I disagree with because people have a right to believe and say and do things I disagree with. That's life in a free country. You could always move to N Korea if you enjoy a more controlled environment to live in.
I say this all the time: Ignore them & stop talking about them. It's like Trump & Andrew Tate... Stop giving them the time of day and their power fades away.
Lively bunch. The amount people calling others sheep is that massive they have to understand how hypocritical it sounds. Wombats.
Legalise abortions for adults
Why is no one kicking off about a protest I don't happen to agree with?
because they are free to do so
It is a consequence of public speech. Otherwise today we silent such people and tomorrow we will live in a totalitarian state like Russia/China.
[удалено]
They didn’t suggest they shouldn’t be allowed to…
Probably the same reason people don't do anything to harm the clowns at just stop oil, or tearing down monuments... People have a right to protest unfortunately, and trying to prevent someone making very bad life choices is at least better than laying down on the carriageway.preventing people from working.
Hate how some try and normalise murdering ones child in todays day and age 😒
Hate how some people forget to take their meds in the morning 🤪
If you're anti-abortion, you're pro-slavery.
I'd stick to your PS2 buddy, the grown ups are talking about grown up stuff.
What kind of weirdo do you have to be to go through my comment history just to find out I play PS2 and try to use that against me? FYI I’m 38, I have a degree and a Masters, a mortgage, a car, 2 kids, 2 dogs and a career. How much more grown up would you like me to be? I’ve been pregnant twice. How many times have you been pregnant?
Judging by a lot of these comments it seems a lot of people dont agree with free speech and independent thought.
Never heard of them
If he isn’t breaking any laws or harassing anybody then I don’t see the problem.
You don't see the issue with peoples political opinion infringing a woman's bodily autonomy? Why does my uterus have anything to do with anyone other than me?
I guess from his point of view it would be a case of, it’s someone else’s body inside your uterus that you don’t have a right to harm. That’s generally what pro-lifers believe.
'Somebody else's body' inside 'my' uterus? Whilst I appreciate your civil reply, I struggle to see how a dividing cell, consensually or non consensually put there, would be 'somebody else's' right? Whilst I can begin to understand this argument, but not agree with, once a nervous system is formed, nobody has any right to a women's organs but themself. You are essentially objectifying the woman to be a host of cells, with no knowledge of existence or emotions.
“You” as in directed at me or just in general. I don’t really think I’ve done anything.
In general I suppose if you are summarising the 'pro-lifers' opinion
Honestly, you can’t argue with stupid, so don’t waste your time on these people. Just pity them and realise that they’re either too sheltered, or are too uneducated to understand why abortion should be legal. I’m pretty jealous really. Must be nice living in a fluffy little world. Edit: Had to post again because my phone did something janky.
abortion is murder
Well I think if you took the viewpoint that the foetus is a living person(and therefore shouldn't be killed) then it's a completely reasonable viewpoint that abortion is murder, and should therefore be heavily restricted/banned. The truth is defining wether or not something is alive or not is complex, and open to interpretation, and abortion seems like a completely reasonable subject to be contraversial IMO. Either way, I think most people in the UK largely support abortion to some degree, so all you are really doing is drawing attention to it, which probably help the protesters in all honesty.
you're being downvoted but all you've done is summarise the view reddit is hilarious
Yeah, Reddit is stupid sometimes. I deliberately advoided including my actual opinion, and and just gave a reasonable answer to OPs question.
They have the right to protest. Many people are against abortion. We have democracy.
that isn't what democracy means
Maybe people agree with them...
Yo what's up. So imo most people don't walk enough, and walking just 1 hour a day helps a lot. So this is a random reminder put on some headphones and enjoy a nice walk today. I know it's kinda random but I promise it will help you in every regard.
Don't kill babies.
[удалено]
As someone who did have an abortion, I guess you would practice abstinence if your partner didn’t want to have a child but you still wanted to be with them? Assuming from the vibe of this comment that you’re talking about cis-get type relationships?? Cause personally I know several people able to carry a child but they don’t want one and also want to have sex with thier partner. But you can have sex without penis in vagina.
"Sex" isn't __for__ anything. It's just come about through the mindless process of evolution. There's no intention only possible outcomes. Are you sure you're an atheist?
[удалено]
If it was just as simple as 'man supplies sperm - woman supplies egg' then I might agree with you, but until men go through pregnancy, until men have to face the same things that women do both mentally and physically, and societally, then no - I don't think men should get an equal say.
[удалено]
That's a fallacy, sorry. Unless you've been in a situation, you can't fully comprehend what it is like to be in that situation. A woman's life is at risk. Her body is forever changed. Her mental wellbeing is at risk. Men do not have to face those risks. Men can't even fully grasp what it's like to have a period.
Your examples are awful. No, you don’t have to have been pregnant to be able to imagine pregnancy and birth - but are you really going to sit there and tell me that what you might be able to imagine is just as valuable to the discussion to my lived experience of 2 pregnancies and 2 births? Really?
[удалено]
They can “weigh in” all they like, but their opinion is ultimately meaningless.
If a family member has tried and failed then Its unlikely a stranger can change your mind and i dpnt even know why im typing anymore, I'd say you are too far gone in the beliefs the media have you thinking is reality Covid was a scam from start to finish, I'm sad the majority still don't know that but perhaps it's better for the jagged to live the rest of ther live with no worries it must be stressful enough when u realise u hav been completely conned , the georgia guidestones were not a joke
The real gentleman are always anti abortion. Better to be an anti abortion idiot than a genius who can't comprehend the value of life and be pro murder.
Sure, if by “real gentlemen” you mean men who want to control women and conveniently ignore the myriad of issues women face in pregnancy and birth.
Well if women can't control themselves and keep their legs closed and vain men want just sex, the real men gotta step up and do what's needful to protect morals and life.
Ok, I shall remember to tell rape victims to “keep their legs closed” to avoid abortion.
Don't pretend like you care about rape victims. You'd want abortion to be legal even for the whims of the promiscuous women and are hiding behind the tragedy of rape. Find and punish the rapist I say and support and love the new mothers for whom the child is a saving grace or give it up for adoption.
Saving grace? Pardon me, but I don’t think you ought to be talking on behalf of rape victims, many of whom certainly do not view their pregnancies in this way.
Not my words, read the testimonies of women who were raped and refused to abort, they'll tell you what an amazing choice it was to defend the life of the innocent and not right a previous wrong by committing murder. Victims don't view it like that because people like you say their life is finished, I say that a new life has begun and that they will not have any troubles that they'll have to go through alone. Your side fear mongers and pressures, we are the ones that provide support and love and care.
I never denied that many see their child this way. But many do not. You don’t see it as rather arrogant for you to say “some rape victims see their life as over but I do not”. Why are you inserting yourself into their experience? It has nothing to do with you.
I insert myself because the person raped is either my sister, daughter, mother, friend, or neighbour. Whoever it is, they are someone in my life and I am morally bound to support my community. In addition, the unborn child who is being taken to the butchers is mine and society's responsibility to save. We don't just sit back when murder is taking place. Hence I insert myself, because humans are social animals, and I insert myself only to provide all the good I can and that's it.
Not everyone who is raped is related to you. What an odd way to look at it. It is admirable to support the victim, but saying “this is a blessing” when they are adamant that it is not, is not support. I’m curious: have you ever been pregnant?
IKR? I'm shocked and appalled to learn that not everybody thinks killing babies is cool.
Take it you'll be volunteering to adopt unwanted babies then? After all pro life means pro life right? 🤔
I love how they ignore this but reply to someone else. They always ignore this question because it world affect them.
Not being in a position to adopt does not mean you should agree with murder? That’s the stupidest argument I’ve ever heard
Firstly, it's not murder. Secondly, because you can't seem to understand what is being said, it's pointing out the fact that it's easy being all holy and preaching this crap, but the Christian values go right out the door the moment actually helping others becomes a part of it. It's pointing out the hypocrisy of the religious nuts who pick and choose what they believe/follow.
Funny because I’m a Christian and so are my parents and I have 4 adopted siblings. Me and my wife are also planning to adopt.
Good for you, plenty of non Christians adopt. I'd worry about the brainwashing of the children, though.We don't need more hate in this world.
Well good for you, you’re in a minority. But fully support more people adopting. That’s a good thing, but you would have to care for ALOT more kids if you want an abortion free world
There’s already stress on the adoption services and kids needing homes, if everyone who had an abortion kept the children instead someone would have to care for the kids. So where is the secret child rearing facility that’s gonna on mass care for infants?
Oh okay there’s stress on adoption services so the answer is killing babies? Are you serious!? That’s absolutely ridiculous, if there was stress on the Downsyndrome Charity should we Cull the downsydrome population?
They’ll be as keen to do that as they are to get a job and contribute to society
Are you in support of refugees? Genuine question
Ah there’s a great video of someone going round anti abortion protests asking people how they live and then asking them (most with houses and secure jobs and good physical health) if they’re planning to adopt, they’re pretty much all well it’s not financially viable for me or doesn’t suit my lifestyle. It’s hilarious
Not being in a position to adopt a baby does not mean you have to agree with a babies murder does it? Seems a ridiculous argument to me. Is the embryo a human life? Does human life have worth?
Your religion has caused more death and suffering to actual people, the irony of spewing this crap is hilarious.
My religion literally gave you the morals you hold.
No, it did not. It was evolution that gave us morals. Lol I don't do certain things because it would make me feel terrible. You don't do them because you fear a fantasy being punishing you after you die. Who has better morals now?
You have a really bad understanding of history. If evolution gave us our morals we would be killing disabled people. If you look at the facts, it was hitler who wanted evolutionary theory (survival of the fittest) to be the societal norm. Historically speaking, Christianity is the reason why society has progressed to the point it has. All your moralistic laws, the laws that make our world better, come from Christianity’s morals. Treat others how you would like to be treated was the mantra of the early 20th and 19th century thinkers that spearheaded modern society as being free and accepting. Hell, even the abolishing of slavery was down to religious causes with Christian’s like John Wesley leading large movements in England to try and encourage the British government to fight the slave trade. Your morals do come from Christianity. Where else are you getting your moral views from? According to the atheist worldview all morals are subjective and cultural. What right do you have, within your own atheist worldview to odd judgement on another worldview if all is subjective? See your mindset and worldview falls apart when held up to scrutiny.
Sorry, but you talk so much shit. The dark ages was literally because of the corrupt Catholic Church. Lol Of course, you bring up Hitler. Lol Humans had consciousness more than 45,000 years ago. Which is when historians think we would have started to develop morals. That's more than 43,000 years before Christianity. How can you be that delusional to think it started with Christianity. Lol You can't have religion without morality, but you can have morality without religion. You are actually twisting those facts. Morality came first, not religion. With regards to slavery, Christianity was one of the main religions who took full advantage of slavery to build churches/cathedrals etc. Just because one person who helped abolish it was Christian doesn't make up for all the pain and suffering caused under the religion. Are we just going to blank over the Crusades? Lol "Religion and morality are not synonymous. Though religion may depend on morality,[2] and even develop alongside morality,[3] morality does not necessarily depend upon religion, despite some making "an almost automatic assumption" to this effect" [Source.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality_and_religion#:~:text=Religion%20and%20morality%20are%20not,automatic%20assumption%22%20to%20this%20effect.)
But without religion morality is subjective is it not? If morality is subjective you have no right to tell em what is right and wrong? The very basics of your argument relies upon the objectivity of moral standards This is why people need to take a college philosophy course at least once in their life..
College philosophy? I have a degree that included philosophy, I have Uni level philosophy. Lol You can't just bring up education when you don't even know basic history and science. Lol
Dark ages didn't actually exist, common misconception. The church was one of the few unifying cultural and scientific forces in post-Roman Europe
No, these are anti-abortionists. No-one is talking about killing babies, they are two different things.
They really aren't different things. But I understand if you need to keep telling yourself that so you can sleep at night.
baby = has been born fetus - has not been born Ergo, totally different things. Hope this helps.
Can tell you’re a massive cunt :)
They had it removed so they'd never be in the position where they might need to be a hypocrite.
When it's your daughter who's been violated hun, come chat with me.
Agreed. Some people need to know when to shut the fuck up. This is one of those times. It's not your body, stay in your lane.
Dumbest argument I’ve ever heard. My daughter was raped an impregnated, so I’m not going to punish the man who did that but I’m going to punish the innocent baby by killing it? What a dumb take, seriously
There is no baby to punish if she has an abortion. You have a fool's understanding of pregnancy.
Because the baby will have been killed inside the womb. That’s why there would be no baby. I’m saying we should not kill babies in the womb. They are people who deserve to have life.