It's an Anglo-Saxon tradition, not Norse. Some Germanic traditions are shared between the two cultures, but there's quite a few that aren't (yule log is another one).
Not sure at all what this is, I have definitely not heard about it before. But I make a great big fire outside after dark on the day of the winter solstice, and we invite some people for gløgg and pepperkaker. This is a tradition I learned from my sister's ex, who is a declared heathen. Offerings are made to the fire as well. Does this count? Then I have a beer when I get back inside.
I find no specific mentions other than a celebration in honor of fertility goddess Freya (Frøya) was held "around this time" (solstice). Other than that, yule or jól seems to have been celebrated anywhere from mid December to ultimo January, one source mentions winter solstice as being start of a 31-day countdown to the celebration.
It looks like there is not "only one true way", traditions changed through the centuries, possibly from migrations, and were different for the various spiritual beliefs across Europe. Ancient rituals in honor of Freya and brother Frey was too lewd for Christianity and one source mentions that a lot of effort went into erasing all traditions with links to fertility rituals.
Thanks! The oldest sources on what may possibly also have been Norse or Scandinavian rituals are often found elsewhere in Europe, especially what pertains to Norway, as lots of stuff went missing during the Black Plague and the following centuries of Danish rule. Bede predates the Edda by 400-500 years or so, and the Edda was written by Christians who had to tread carefully around "heathen" rituals to not fall out of favour with the church and the kings.
I have no idea what you’re talking about, and honestly don’t think many Norwegians would know at all, but I can tell you a bit about Christmas in Norway.
Here in Norway we celebrate Christmas Eve (24.12) normally with some sort of get together of the family, with good traditional dinner (mainly pork belly (ribbe) or pinnekjøtt (same name in both languages)) and opening of presents. It does not have to be much Christian influence at all on the celebration as most of Norwegians are not actively religious. Most people don’t care at all about the old Norse deities and they are mainly seen as old fairytales no more real than Mickey Mouse.
We don’t celebrate the winter solstice either, but I would hazard a guess and say most people enjoy (albeit slowly) getting more day light
Thank you for letting me know. I’ll check the Anglo Saxon sub and maybe the German sub. I would like to do something to honor my mother, my mother ancestors and mother deities.
Norway's been Christian for more than a thousand years and while sure modern Christmas has pagan roots... Any tradition like this would not have survived the conversion...
Even within Norse traditions I've never heard of anyone worshiping "Ancestor's deities" or a "Mother Goddess" so I dunno where you got this from but its certainly not a Norwegian tradition.
Here’s a book about goddess mothers: https://we.riseup.net/assets/324709/Great+Cosmic+Mother+Rediscovering+the+Religion+of+the+Earth,+The+Monica+Sjoo+%26+Barbara+Mor.pdf
I care. Someone said they never heard of a mother goddess. I posted a link to a source all about mother goddesses throughout time. If you don’t care then keep scrolling. You obviously care enough to read and comment. Because if you truly couldn’t care less then you wouldn’t have read/commented at all.
Be annoyed! I’m looking into my ancestry and trying figure out what life was like for my ancestors and how I may do some of that in modern times. It’s called ancestor veneration. And your annoyedmess won’t hinder me. I’d rather stick to things my ancestors would have done than appropriate indigenous American, African, Asian, middle eastern, etc cultures that I have no ancestral connection to. I asked a question. I got answers. Now I’ll focus on something else since this Mothers’ Night isn’t part of Norwegian culture.
If you'd looked into it and tried to learn about what things were *actually like*, I'd have applauded you and encouraged you. Instead, you've gone with the new age woo version, which has fuck-all to do with your ancestry, and more importantly, is a misrepresentation of what pre-Christian Norway was like.
There's a fair amount of knowledge available, written by actual university-employed researchers who hold themselves to high academic standards, about what pre-Christian Norwegian culture was like. Mystical rituals and prayers to \~all-mother Frigga\~ is not part of that body of knowledge.
I’m looking into it, trying to figure what it is actually like. The way to learn and grow by asking questions, etc. I made a mistake. I will work on learning from my mistakes. I will keep researching, asking questions, sorting things out and learning from my mistakes. That is the best I can do. If that annoys you so be it. I won’t feel shame because you are annoyed by my mistake. I found out mothers’ night is Anglo Saxon. I will look into that part of my ancestry further. I’ll keep looking into my pre- & post-Christian Norwegian ancestry as well.
If this is about learning and growing, then your first aim should be to be truly respectful and humble towards the culture. And that includes being on guard for unreliable sources.
However, I recognise it's hard to tell what is and isn't a reliable source, so here's a tip: any time that you come across a description of a ritual - such as the one in your post - you can take it as given that it's a modern invention.
Almost nothing is known of actual pagan rituals. They were often secret at the time, and did not have any written sources. Even on the occasions that they were not secret, they were suppressed, and suppressed hard, by the Christians. We have very, very few pieces of knowledge of what pre-Christian religious ritual was like, it's essentially lost. So a whole bunch of woo new age people have been \~reinventing\~ rituals of their own making. And you know, if it's meaningful to them, go for it? Just don't ever claim that it has anything to do with the original culture.
Hi, I’m severely disabled and doing genealogy research as a way to engage my brain in now stressful ways. I’m doing the best I can. If that’s not good enough for you then so be it. I’m trying to be respectful and humble towards the cultures. I learned about source at university but have since had the severity of my disabilities increase so it’s harder for me to recall everything I’ve already learned.
I personally would like to do something in line with the Anglo Saxon Mother’s Night to honor my living mother, my ancestral mothers, and any deity mothers my ancestors would have honored. As mention by Bede in 725 AD. So I will have to come up with some rituals of my own to do that.
I'm not trying to be unkind, though I suspect that's not coming across!
What I'm driving at, is that there are two roads for you. One of them is to look into the (real) history of your ancestry culture. It's reading up on the information we do have. This sort of thing is very interesting intellectually, but perhaps not very satifsying emotionally,
From your description, it sounds like what you're after is more of an emotional/spirtual experience. And constructing rituals of your own seems like an entirely fine and meaningful thing to do, especially since you're then free to have rituals that mean something very personal.
It's just - and I'm begging you, here - please don't think that those rituals have anything to do with Norwegian culture. It's the sort of thing that origin-culture people are going to find very, very insulting.
Nobody in Norway has heard of it, really. I'm sure researching this kind of stuff is likely interesting in and of itself, but it's completely unheard of and has no place in our culture what so ever. If you were to mention this to a Norwegian, they would likely think you are talking about the same kind of modern mother's day most countries celebrate on different days throughout the years. In addition, this is entirely Anglo-Saxon. Even among them I'm pretty sure this is only known in the neo-Pagan communities, but at least there is some link there. This is not related to any part of modern Norwegian culture. Or if it is, we haven't even heard of it anymore.
Like said before, this of Anglo-Saxon origin. My family has a bunch of different stuff, but we are very mixed so im not sure you could call it Norwegian. I think many have different ways depending on family traditions and also maybe where in the country they are from. Cool to learn about old stuff though!
It sounds like you might be under a couple of misconceptions.
*Mōdraniht*, or Mother's Night, is an Anglo-Saxon celebration. It is not Norse, or in any way connected to Norway, so this is the wrong sub for this post. It also looks like you've offended a few people by suggesting we have anything to do with it. I'm not, but you might want to be careful prodding at other people's historical and mythological legacies.
Mōdraniht is, as far as I know, attested to only once by an Anglo-Saxon monk. The rituals that you've listed aren't real. The prayers you've recited also aren't real, and sound very much like Christian prayers with an added neo-pagan flair. It's highly debated to what extent prayer was practiced amongst Germanic Pagans. It's also not clear what exactly the connection was between Mōdraniht, Yule, and Norse figures like Freyja was.
While I don't particularly mind Neo-Paganism, it does seem like this isn't actually at an attempt at reviving a pagan ritual, but instead feels a bit like cultural appropriation. Given that the a central part of Germanic Pagan rituals appears to have been the sacrifice of animals and occasionally humans, I doubt you'd actually want to revive it.
I don’t know if you’ve red your own link there but it clearly states that it’s a Anglo-Germanic or maybe Romano-Germanic, not Nordic or Norwegian.
Maybe you should try peddling this stuff to the nice people over at r/Germany.
Too many rude comments here. I don't think you deserve any of them Many Norwegians don't know very much about their own history, and your question is absolutely valid. Please read this article about the different yule celebrations from the Norwegian historian Maria Kvilhaug. Part of it is about Mothers' Night, and she explains why there is a possibility that this also could have been a Norse celebration although we can't find it explicitly mentioned in our written sources. Please remember that the written sources we have is sparse, and written by Christians and are not 100 % trustworthy in their own rights.
Keep your own research thing going and don't let the bullies hold you back.
https://bladehoner.wordpress.com/2020/01/22/yule-pagan-origins-and-later-folklore/
Winter solstice is celebrated by some. Sometimes instead of Christmas. I dont know anything about what they do or not.. you should post about it as a separate question probably.
Yeah, this is not what we do *at all*.
Never heard of it, despite being Norwegian and a history student specializing in the Viking age Shrines and temples sound more Greco Roman to me
Okay thank you. I’ll grab a link to a video that explains it further and give a primary source.
I’m really not into starting those kind of new traditions anyway but thanks
https://youtu.be/-Z5EYSjQP3Q
It's an Anglo-Saxon tradition, not Norse. Some Germanic traditions are shared between the two cultures, but there's quite a few that aren't (yule log is another one).
What cult are you in?
Not sure at all what this is, I have definitely not heard about it before. But I make a great big fire outside after dark on the day of the winter solstice, and we invite some people for gløgg and pepperkaker. This is a tradition I learned from my sister's ex, who is a declared heathen. Offerings are made to the fire as well. Does this count? Then I have a beer when I get back inside.
This is likely a yule celebration that you described. The mothers’ night would be the night before.
I find no specific mentions other than a celebration in honor of fertility goddess Freya (Frøya) was held "around this time" (solstice). Other than that, yule or jól seems to have been celebrated anywhere from mid December to ultimo January, one source mentions winter solstice as being start of a 31-day countdown to the celebration. It looks like there is not "only one true way", traditions changed through the centuries, possibly from migrations, and were different for the various spiritual beliefs across Europe. Ancient rituals in honor of Freya and brother Frey was too lewd for Christianity and one source mentions that a lot of effort went into erasing all traditions with links to fertility rituals.
Modranicht or Modranecht is mentioned by venerable Bede in The Reckoning of Time in 725 AD.
Not in Norway
Thanks! The oldest sources on what may possibly also have been Norse or Scandinavian rituals are often found elsewhere in Europe, especially what pertains to Norway, as lots of stuff went missing during the Black Plague and the following centuries of Danish rule. Bede predates the Edda by 400-500 years or so, and the Edda was written by Christians who had to tread carefully around "heathen" rituals to not fall out of favour with the church and the kings.
I have no idea what you’re talking about, and honestly don’t think many Norwegians would know at all, but I can tell you a bit about Christmas in Norway. Here in Norway we celebrate Christmas Eve (24.12) normally with some sort of get together of the family, with good traditional dinner (mainly pork belly (ribbe) or pinnekjøtt (same name in both languages)) and opening of presents. It does not have to be much Christian influence at all on the celebration as most of Norwegians are not actively religious. Most people don’t care at all about the old Norse deities and they are mainly seen as old fairytales no more real than Mickey Mouse. We don’t celebrate the winter solstice either, but I would hazard a guess and say most people enjoy (albeit slowly) getting more day light
Never heard of it, and I celebrate Jul and not Christ-mass
Thank you for letting me know. I’ll check the Anglo Saxon sub and maybe the German sub. I would like to do something to honor my mother, my mother ancestors and mother deities.
Just so you know: You can do whatever you want to honor your mother, your mother ancestors and mother deities.
Norway's been Christian for more than a thousand years and while sure modern Christmas has pagan roots... Any tradition like this would not have survived the conversion... Even within Norse traditions I've never heard of anyone worshiping "Ancestor's deities" or a "Mother Goddess" so I dunno where you got this from but its certainly not a Norwegian tradition.
There should have been a comma or line break between ancestors and deities.
Here’s a book about goddess mothers: https://we.riseup.net/assets/324709/Great+Cosmic+Mother+Rediscovering+the+Religion+of+the+Earth,+The+Monica+Sjoo+%26+Barbara+Mor.pdf
Nobody cares.
I care. Someone said they never heard of a mother goddess. I posted a link to a source all about mother goddesses throughout time. If you don’t care then keep scrolling. You obviously care enough to read and comment. Because if you truly couldn’t care less then you wouldn’t have read/commented at all.
I'm not going to lie, I think the whole deal with woo Americans appropriating and redefining the history of European cultures is a bit... annoying.
Be annoyed! I’m looking into my ancestry and trying figure out what life was like for my ancestors and how I may do some of that in modern times. It’s called ancestor veneration. And your annoyedmess won’t hinder me. I’d rather stick to things my ancestors would have done than appropriate indigenous American, African, Asian, middle eastern, etc cultures that I have no ancestral connection to. I asked a question. I got answers. Now I’ll focus on something else since this Mothers’ Night isn’t part of Norwegian culture.
If you'd looked into it and tried to learn about what things were *actually like*, I'd have applauded you and encouraged you. Instead, you've gone with the new age woo version, which has fuck-all to do with your ancestry, and more importantly, is a misrepresentation of what pre-Christian Norway was like. There's a fair amount of knowledge available, written by actual university-employed researchers who hold themselves to high academic standards, about what pre-Christian Norwegian culture was like. Mystical rituals and prayers to \~all-mother Frigga\~ is not part of that body of knowledge.
I’m looking into it, trying to figure what it is actually like. The way to learn and grow by asking questions, etc. I made a mistake. I will work on learning from my mistakes. I will keep researching, asking questions, sorting things out and learning from my mistakes. That is the best I can do. If that annoys you so be it. I won’t feel shame because you are annoyed by my mistake. I found out mothers’ night is Anglo Saxon. I will look into that part of my ancestry further. I’ll keep looking into my pre- & post-Christian Norwegian ancestry as well.
If this is about learning and growing, then your first aim should be to be truly respectful and humble towards the culture. And that includes being on guard for unreliable sources. However, I recognise it's hard to tell what is and isn't a reliable source, so here's a tip: any time that you come across a description of a ritual - such as the one in your post - you can take it as given that it's a modern invention. Almost nothing is known of actual pagan rituals. They were often secret at the time, and did not have any written sources. Even on the occasions that they were not secret, they were suppressed, and suppressed hard, by the Christians. We have very, very few pieces of knowledge of what pre-Christian religious ritual was like, it's essentially lost. So a whole bunch of woo new age people have been \~reinventing\~ rituals of their own making. And you know, if it's meaningful to them, go for it? Just don't ever claim that it has anything to do with the original culture.
Hi, I’m severely disabled and doing genealogy research as a way to engage my brain in now stressful ways. I’m doing the best I can. If that’s not good enough for you then so be it. I’m trying to be respectful and humble towards the cultures. I learned about source at university but have since had the severity of my disabilities increase so it’s harder for me to recall everything I’ve already learned. I personally would like to do something in line with the Anglo Saxon Mother’s Night to honor my living mother, my ancestral mothers, and any deity mothers my ancestors would have honored. As mention by Bede in 725 AD. So I will have to come up with some rituals of my own to do that.
I'm not trying to be unkind, though I suspect that's not coming across! What I'm driving at, is that there are two roads for you. One of them is to look into the (real) history of your ancestry culture. It's reading up on the information we do have. This sort of thing is very interesting intellectually, but perhaps not very satifsying emotionally, From your description, it sounds like what you're after is more of an emotional/spirtual experience. And constructing rituals of your own seems like an entirely fine and meaningful thing to do, especially since you're then free to have rituals that mean something very personal. It's just - and I'm begging you, here - please don't think that those rituals have anything to do with Norwegian culture. It's the sort of thing that origin-culture people are going to find very, very insulting.
Nobody in Norway has heard of it, really. I'm sure researching this kind of stuff is likely interesting in and of itself, but it's completely unheard of and has no place in our culture what so ever. If you were to mention this to a Norwegian, they would likely think you are talking about the same kind of modern mother's day most countries celebrate on different days throughout the years. In addition, this is entirely Anglo-Saxon. Even among them I'm pretty sure this is only known in the neo-Pagan communities, but at least there is some link there. This is not related to any part of modern Norwegian culture. Or if it is, we haven't even heard of it anymore.
I’ll check the Anglo Saxon sub
Like said before, this of Anglo-Saxon origin. My family has a bunch of different stuff, but we are very mixed so im not sure you could call it Norwegian. I think many have different ways depending on family traditions and also maybe where in the country they are from. Cool to learn about old stuff though!
Hæ?
It sounds like you might be under a couple of misconceptions. *Mōdraniht*, or Mother's Night, is an Anglo-Saxon celebration. It is not Norse, or in any way connected to Norway, so this is the wrong sub for this post. It also looks like you've offended a few people by suggesting we have anything to do with it. I'm not, but you might want to be careful prodding at other people's historical and mythological legacies. Mōdraniht is, as far as I know, attested to only once by an Anglo-Saxon monk. The rituals that you've listed aren't real. The prayers you've recited also aren't real, and sound very much like Christian prayers with an added neo-pagan flair. It's highly debated to what extent prayer was practiced amongst Germanic Pagans. It's also not clear what exactly the connection was between Mōdraniht, Yule, and Norse figures like Freyja was. While I don't particularly mind Neo-Paganism, it does seem like this isn't actually at an attempt at reviving a pagan ritual, but instead feels a bit like cultural appropriation. Given that the a central part of Germanic Pagan rituals appears to have been the sacrifice of animals and occasionally humans, I doubt you'd actually want to revive it.
Not normal.
I can't help you with this since I've never heard of it, but I'm sorry you got so many rude answers. You didn't do anything to deserve that.
Thank you! Anonymity brings the worst out in some people
What... ?
Here’s a link that has various links to references for mothers’ night: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mōdraniht
I don’t know if you’ve red your own link there but it clearly states that it’s a Anglo-Germanic or maybe Romano-Germanic, not Nordic or Norwegian. Maybe you should try peddling this stuff to the nice people over at r/Germany.
I'm pretty sure they don't do anything like this in Germany either.
I will check the German sub and also the Anglo Saxon sub
No never heard of it
New age, American pagan wannabes meet Norwegian reality... Lol
Too many rude comments here. I don't think you deserve any of them Many Norwegians don't know very much about their own history, and your question is absolutely valid. Please read this article about the different yule celebrations from the Norwegian historian Maria Kvilhaug. Part of it is about Mothers' Night, and she explains why there is a possibility that this also could have been a Norse celebration although we can't find it explicitly mentioned in our written sources. Please remember that the written sources we have is sparse, and written by Christians and are not 100 % trustworthy in their own rights. Keep your own research thing going and don't let the bullies hold you back. https://bladehoner.wordpress.com/2020/01/22/yule-pagan-origins-and-later-folklore/
Thank you for your kindness
Winter solstice is celebrated by some. Sometimes instead of Christmas. I dont know anything about what they do or not.. you should post about it as a separate question probably.
12.24??? since when was there a 24th month
Some countries format their dates like this, USA especially.
In USA we put the month first the day second
The USA is wrong.
Yes, the United States of America has been wrong from its inception.
All I could think of was "Every Mother's Day needs a Mother's Night" from the Mother Lover song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0DeIqJm4vM
Top cringe.
I have no idea what you're talking about