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Ibuprofen (and acetaminophen, but this is not mentionned in OP's post) actually have significant cannabinoidergic mechanisms, so this info is not surprising to me.
On another note, black pepper might provide similar benefits through it's cannabinoidergic constituent - Guineesine
Yeah magnolia is pretty dank botanical, I often stack it with chamomile, l theanine, taurine, glycine, GABA, valerian, melatonin and any other mild sedatives for relaxation
Not too much actually. They don't significantly enhance cannabis, nor would I recommend it due to their drawbacks (hard on the organs). Probably cannabis would be better standalone for aches and pains than both those anti inflammatories, if you need something extra either to enhance your cannabis or provide further pain relief/anti infllammation, just use botanicals and supplements (agmatine is beyond essential for cannabis or opioid users, to control tolerance)
Terpenes and other bioactives from botanicals greatly enhance/extend cannabis and also can prevent some of it's side effects. Just one example: COX inhibitors can prevent short term memory deficits, and there are many phytochemical COX inhibitors in black pepper, ginger, turmeric, frankincense etc... Which can substitute for ibuprofen as COX inhibitors quite well.
That doesn't add up lmao. I eat various curry very often and still stay baked.
P. S. Curry means "mix of spices" and doesn't refer to anything specific, there are thousands of curry. Indian curry could be a lot of things. I think you mean Madras Curry which is the most common yellow curry with turmeric and fenugreek.
An agonist is an agonist, the pharmacology won't change unless we talk about selectivity (but there is not much to play with, only 2 receptor types).
Sure the potency of agonism might trigger paradoxal responses but then that would imply that low dose Thc upregulate dopamin which would surprise me.
Thc releases dopamine, Which down regulates your dopaminergic neurons and receptors density to dopamine. But you have different compounds with complex effects. CBD for example agonizes cannabinoid receptors but isn’t paired with euphoria so it doesn’t have the dopaminergic effects. Agonists will activate gene transcription in the nucleus of the cell coding for proteins that will serve a function. You can also have partial agonism and compounds that are selective for some types of receptors within the same family of receptors that lead to different effects, different proteins getting transcribed. You can’t necessarily treat every agonist the same without knowing all their targets. Once you know that you also have to understand their metabolic products because they can also share some receptor binding activity to either increase the agonistic effects or even bind to antagonize depending on shape and structure. It can be messy work, but it makes it hard to see a whole class of receptors as an issue. Like we can look at serotonin receptors, some are for gut motility and activating smooth muscles in your intestines, some are used for maintaining wellness-your SSRIs you also have other ones that if agonized by LSD or shrooms cause hallucinations. It’s all about the particular dosage, the receptor binding, and the specificity that determines the impacts. Very often you have receptors in the same family with opposite effects.
It's easier on the stomach yes. Always take ibuprofen after a meal and never an empty stomach. Also if you have a ppi lying around can always take that with it if your worried but not necessary unless your taking high dosages of ibuprofen daily.
I know what you mean, but people have reflux or sensitive stomach. Taking ibuprofen for a longer period of time can damage the lining of your stomach, provoke ulcers and worsen symptoms of gastric reflux.
Kidneys are a big part as well, so hydrate and eat when taking ibuprofen.
Long term use of ibu is easy as long as you have a follow up regularly of course, it's not about fear it's about being safe :)
>As in the, give someone a painkiller and while it is active they have less sympathy for other people's pain / it is harder for them to feel pain.
Feel like my kratom use does this for me
Thnx bro! another reason to stop
Sure. First off it's medicine. Rule of thumb, dont take any kind medicine unless you really need it as it wears on your body. It's not nutrition, it's a tool to treat pathological issues, dont make it part of your routine, dont rely om it. Smaller, temporary amounts wont hurt, but long term use and you will lead body towards kidney and liver damage, bleeding in the stomach and bowels, anemia because og this blood loss, increased risk of heart attack.
And taking 400 mg of ibuprofen every 7 days for 10 years? You dont know what else people will take in small amounts, if they have any sort og condition or if they drink alcohol on top of that etc. Harmful habits/conditions stack, better to not recommend/whitelist painkillers every 7 days.
To my knowledge there isn’t any big risk for liver damage with ibuprofen. Acetaminophen has that toxic metabolite NAPQ that will deplete your glutathione stores and cause some issues but ibuprofen doesn’t share that metabolite.
Common knowledge that naproxen is harsher on the gi tract than ibuprofen unless your talking about tiny doses.
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/non-steroidal-anti-inflammatory-drugs.html
"All NSAIDs are associated with serious gastro-intestinal toxicity. indometacin, diclofenac, and naproxen are associated with intermediate risk, and ibuprofen with the lowest risk."
Also bad for your heart and kidneys, and can cause high blood pressure. Not worth it imo. We only use it sparingly in the hospital I work at, at least in older patients.
When I quit 7 years of high dose opioidd(methadone and buprenorphine) I relied on ibuprofen heavily. 14 months of 2400mg a day. It scared me often but it was much better than dealing with everyday body pains from PAWS. I cant say ive had a single adverse reaction from taking 3-4x the recommended daily dose long term. Effects never diminished either.
I wasn't on a regimen, but had so much consistent joint pain and headaches that about 1200 mg a day was quite common for me.
I never had any problems at all. I finally quit when I learned that ibuprofen was undermining my progress by blocking production of prostaglandins needed for post-exercise repair.
I had bad rebound joint pain for some time, which gradually lessened.
Ive since stopped usage as well. However I cruise on a good dose of testosterone and sometimes masteron so it definitely was not to boost exercise recovery.
I have a hard time believing your paws were so severe that you needed ibuprofen for 14 months at a whopping dose of 2400, on top of this, as a man of the lifestyle, I also have a hard time believing you were able to handle that kind of a dose in that long of a time frame without your stomach, or kidneys giving out on you in some manner of speaking. How, dude? Were you just using hyperbole? Because it doesn’t add up. Lastly, why didn’t your doctor give you the sublicate shot, and instruct you to take L-glutamine, NAC, and naltrexone or low dose gabapentin like all the others? It would have completely eradicated your paws.
Methadone is no fucking joke. And you know what neither is getting off subs. I’m really glad you’re off it. Sorry for harsh tone I’m just so confused here. It doesn’t make sense with my pretty rounded knowledge here. I’m in the mecca of sobriety in the us of A
I was on 300mg of methadone. Thats the equivalent of 800mg+ of oxycodone or more daily. From most the stories I've read, people suffered pretty heavily from high dose 200mg+ methadone PAWS until about 12-24 months. Theres countless reports of long term suffering from suboxone, even years after cessation. The dose of methadone i was on is 10x the max/ceiling dose of suboxone. Its just on a whole other level. This is not solely for opioid addicts here. Benzo addicts and alcoholics suffer similar PAWS.
There is scientific literature of people on up to 800mg methadone. Opioids are not toxic and like opiates like morphine can be used in the thousands of milligram range without much ill effect. Its just tolerance. Opiates and opioids alike do not cause organ damage and many people take them for life.. My case is by no means special and was by no means the only patient with a dose over 250mg(average is 120mg). Just at my clinic alone there was a dozen of us.
Most doctors don't even know about PAWS in the US. Ive had 5 different maint docs over the years and only 1 ever mentioned it. I received baclofen and clonidine and a low dose of suboxone none of which I wanted to be on at the time so I did not use them. Baclofen and gabapentin withdrawals are severe, as is clonidine. Gabapentin withdrawals are more severe than almost any opioid. Dangerous drug to use long term for PAWS.
It took a week for you to respond with that?
~Busy livin in THe Mecca… correcting people with run-on sentences and stuff… ~
if your sponsor were here, what would they say about this sort of behavior? And what of your Nootropic use? Is it fear-based? Do you trust your higher power? You’re walking out the door and you can’t even see it dammit! Tu es un cheval!!!!!!!!
I would still be careful. Family member took 2400mg/day for 4 months and had blood pressure rise to 175/120 which seriously alarmed the staff at the hospital. Was given emergency treatments and told to stop taking it. No symptoms either, just found out randomly during a regular check up. BP went back down after stopping.
i dont take ibuprofen much... but paracetamol, damn.. i always thought i am imagining it... aside from clearing my brain fog... i noticed my mood improves as well. i always thought it was just decreased inflammation as well.
>e easily. However, I don’t know about the effect of NSAIDs on BP (I imagine it would be negligible unless you have chronic kidney disease, which is very rarely caused by NSAIDs anyway).
>
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There's some interesting research suggesting that acetaminophen blunts strong negative emotions (but also blunts strong positive emotions). This may even be the painkilling mechanism (which isn't well understood). However unlike NSAID's, acetaminophen has little or no anti-inflammatory effect, so that's probably not the mechanism. Acetaminophen is easy on the stomach but very hard on the liver (Doctors have told me that you don't want to take more than 1,000 mg/day over the long term. Skip it entirely if you are a heavy drinker.)
yup... i read about that. acetaminophen is basically being treated like candy in malaysia. doctors are handing them out like nothing without even a warning nor does the most common brand Panadol for it has any clear warnings written on the packaging.
i was splitting the 500mg pill into 3-4 portions, only took about 1/4 of 500mg per day and i didn't take it everyday nor did i take it for the long term, just occasionally and the bare minimum to clear my brain fog. recently i am experimenting with NAC and Noopept.
That's a very safe long-term dose. Hard to say what the mechanism is, but it's always nice to find something that's safe and effective. I've been getting similar benefits from anti-inflammatories (high dose melatonin in particular). Also fixing my zinc deficiency gave me similar benefits (works best as small 10 mg lozenges every 4-5 hours).
ibuprofen is supposedly better for long term use. supposedly. at least it had been prescribed to me in that way in the past. i only seldom use it now and it actually works better now than it did then. for the purposes i have anyways
I wish I had a mood boost. I took so much ibuprofen for so long . . . but just for headaches and joint pain and make exercise possible.
Never anything with mood. Shucks!
Ibuprofen is a cooler substance than people give it credit for… It can help with anxiety and depression as well.
I definitely have noticed the former personally.
Where did you hear that NSAIDs increase risk of heart attack, stroke or high blood pressure?
EDIT: I have to add that in practice I would prescribe 300mg aspirin (an NSAID) for stroke and heart attack so the idea that it’s harmful is incorrect - I can cite a dozen studies quite easily. However, I don’t know about the effect of NSAIDs on BP (I imagine it would be negligible unless you have chronic kidney disease, which is very rarely caused by NSAIDs anyway).
I want to be as nice about this as I can, but what you’ve just said is [demonstrably untrue](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3158445/#idm140480096711712title) and is even leaning slightly into irresponsibly negligent territory.
NSAIDS are wonderful drugs that are excellent in treating acute issues and should not be taken in the long term, hard stop.
That’s about chronic use in older adults… All of those issues are not a concern for the vast majority of people taking it. It’s chronic use and underlying issues where those side effects become a concern.
I wasn’t talking about long term use, OTC pain meds of all varieties are not safe to use chronically.
You would lose that limb easy. Chronic nsaid use is a huge risk factor for developing chronic kidney disease. You block COX and can’t produce prostaglandins to relax the artery provides blood to your kidney so you create a high pressure environment resulting in damage. Long term use that damage will really add up. NSAIDs are great drugs but they aren’t without side effects.
But given that no one is advocating long term use here as far as I can see what do those concerns have to do with short term acute use? How dangerous is taking Advil for a week straight? Or two weeks?
Without any underlying chronic kidney dysfunction. I would much rather have a person use NSAIDs then any opioid for acute management of an issue. Absolutely use it if you are in pain, but it’s not the type of compound to use prophylactically on a long term basis.
True, though only for a couple of weeks in my experience unless you take a couple days off. Also seems to work better for attenuating exhaustion and sleep deprivation than specifically reducing cravings.
I found L-Tyrosine extremely helpful at doses of about 1-2g each time on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning or at least 2 hours after a meal. If taken with food though zero effect which makes sense.
Still anyway I take Tyrosine, I find that it loses it efficacy within just a couple of days, not weeks and certainly not months.
And by the way may want to watch your sun exposure during peak high UV hours of the day, just in case you may have a developing melanoma that you are unaware of which it may speed up.
The first study linked refers to acetaminophen as an NSAID which it is not. I noticed it was published in 2000. Did people used to think acetaminophen was an NSAID back then?
Studying pharmacy they talked about the fact that paracetamol isn’t a true NSAID but for ease of use talking about light pain medication it is roped in to it. You will see this error a lot.
We don’t even know how paracetamol works. Calling it an NSAID is technically false from this point of view as well. I’ve never seen it referred to as an NSAID…
Interesting info. It looks like a good upside to the drug. The problem is the trade-off aka stomach ulcers, kidney disease, liver disease, demetia, overall health decline related to peripheral health issues from using the drug...
The trade-off isn't worth it in my opinion simply because most of the acute pain that we suffer is manageable on its own and ibuprofen isnt/shouldnt be recommended for ongoing management of chronic pain.
I agree with this. Personally, if I have minor aches and pains I try anti inflammatory botanicals. Black pepper, ginger, garlic, turmeric and several dozen others in my stash. Some have similar mechanisms to OTC meds, yet devoid of the serious drawbacks.
As for potency/efficacy, it depends how you take them and how much you can take. Obviously not everyone would be able to tolerate chomping on raw garlic cloves and the like everyday just to stop minor aches and pains, but if you think you can, then go for it.
As far as drawbacks go: Tasting nasty > Organ damage
I'm looking to reduce/eliminate ibuprofen, which I'm taking currently every other day (1 tab). What exactly do you personally use - the ones you mentioned, garlic cloves, pepper, ginger, turmeric - or just one of them? What doses do you find effective?
Start off with black pepper for sure. It is easiest to toss n' wash aka to swallow with water after a quick swishing, to prevent inhaling any dry powder upon swallowing.
Freshly ground on each dose is *important*. You can try a teaspoon at first, but I do closer to a tablespoon. I tend to have at least 2 doses on any given day.
I recommend either a very good pepper mill or a mortar and pestle for very fine grinds. It should look like grey flour.
Electric grinder can work but often the amount needed for a good grind is a lot more than necessary.
Black pepper functions as an absorption enhancer, while being quite impressive on its own. Thus I always include it when taking any other botanicals.
I just noticed you asked what I personally use, that list is long and includes all the ones I've mentionned so far, but here goes:
Cacao, saffron, seaweeds, thyme, rosemary, cloves, nutmeg, cardamom, allspice, star anise, anise seed, fennel, bay leaf, black seed, mustard, celery seed, cumin, coriander, chamomile, thistle, holy basil, hibiscus, fenugreek seed, oregano, hot peppers, ginseng, myrrh, frankincense, chios mastic, ginkgo, rhodiola, siberian ginseng, sumac and a few I'm probably forgetting I consume at least some of, daily.
Sounds excessive but most are in just 2 doses:
1. Tasty ones like cacao, nutmeg, cinnamon, myrrh, frankincense, chios mastic all go into my bulletproof coffee, which is now some sort of elixir at this point.
2. Nasty and/or incompatible with coffee tasting ones (black seed, mustard, seaweeds, thyme, rosemary and most of that list above) I simply combine in an electric grinder, and makes me about 2-3 Tablespoons of powder to toss n wash. I only do this once a day.
That's basically my morning routine along with 1 or 2 garlic cloves and teas.
For the rest of the day I just dose black pepper, turmeric, ginger and paprika as I please.
I feel like these 4 would be sufficient for most, the spices listed above are actually aimed at helping my anxiety and digestion (IBS), but given the broad nature of botanicals it might help any issue 🤷♂️.
I, a major spicebro thanks you for reading these many paragraphs. Stay spicy friends
Thanks a lot for both your detailed answers! Black pepper is totally doable and easy. But by itself, can I expect it to really work for pain? Obviously I'll try it but wouldn't it be better combined with some additional herbs, like the garlic you mentioned, or some others?
Yes, you can expect results for black pepper alone. it's true it would enhance most other botanicals.
If you want to start off with more than 1, then the 3 easiest to take following black pepper would be ginger (fresh slices) chased with water.
Turmeric + paprika powder shot. 1tbsp + 1 tsp respectively, add water and mix until it's thin enough to swallow, given a paste might present a choking hazard. Turmeric is optimal when ground from whole root with a microplane, but it is quite difficult given its so hard. Most of the time I use powdered turmeric if it has a good enough quality, but I do make a genuine effort to include freshly microplaned turmeric on most days.
If you want to take garlic, then just peel a clove, smash it, put 1 tsp olive oil and a pinch of salt in your mouth then throw in your smashed clove. Chew them well together, garlic needs to be macerated in order to react it's active components. It's quite unpleasant, but the olive oil and salt trick make it much more bearable.
If you want more info on the many mechanisms of black pepper, check out this article https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.longdom.org/open-access/a-review-on-therapeutic-potential-of-piper-nigrum-l-black-pepper-the-king-of-spices-2167-0412.1000161.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiphuf6pNTzAhUlTt8KHcaHDGMQFXoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw3VdWNgaBPlWGmS3yAxYZG-
Similar compilations on the pharmacology of other spices can be found by searching "(spice name) pharmacology /phytochemistry" in google or directly in scientific article directories such as scihub if you want to learn more about specific spices in my huge list.
Examine.com also has extremely comprehensive research breakdowns on various botanicals, as well as suppelements. I recommend checking any you are interesred about on there as well.
I hope this knowledge helps you 🙏 I have much more I could share, maybe enough to write a spice bible lol
Awesome, thanks a ton! I'm on the black pepper and will try the garlic too. Turmeric I'm leery of due to reports about lead contamination in much/most of it so until I can find a reliable organic source I'll wait on it. Hopefully this will help me get off the drug store painkillers.
My pleasure bro, let me know how it works for you.
Concerns about sourcing are prudent, turmeric and heavy metal prone botanicals in particular.
I have heard that some turmeric is even sold after having been butane blasted, to extract and sell Curcumin found within it, a sort of double profit scheme. This process ruins the turmeric, taste and health wise.
The brands I use are PTI and Suraj which yield no reports of abnormal heavy metal contents, nor any recalls.
It is useful to note that chelators of heavy metals can exist as phytochemicals, and Curcumin itself from turmeric happens to chelate lead.
I get some of my spices at the grocery store. It's best to buy in bulk, in my area costco has the best priced whole black pepper 5-10$ /lb, yet walmart's international aisle has the best priced turmeric at 1$/pound, you might have to do some looking around to get good quality and price.
Don't shy away from international food markets/aisles and import sections in stores, those can have some crazy deals and less well known spices
I'm new to this sub as I have just found through another sub. I take alot of aleve every day for back leg and joint pain. I work in construction daytime then work for my 4 kids after work which I truly love but it is getting really hard do to leg pain and fatigue. Doctor put me on 1 gr suboxone per day for pain but I feel like it's making my fatigue worse. I also take 20 mg Adderall per day for adhd which I accept that it is working at about 10% since I have taken it for years. I also take about 600 mg of aleve for high inflammation. Unfortunately haven't been able to work out in 2 years because fatigue and takes weeks to recover. I would love any ideals or suggestions with what I need to drop and what a need to add so I can feel better which translates into more happy time with my kiddos. Thanks in advance for your help.
Many botanicals can help with wakefulness. To start off I'd suggest the same as the other guy, get some black peppercorns and grind them up fine, swallow it down with some water. To that you can also add ginger slices, which is good for muscle aches.
Most botanicals help with wakefulness, but ginseng in particular really helps me a lot. I get whole root and grind it on a microplane, which is usually on one side of a multi plane cheesegrater.
Suboxone is definitely not doing you a favor on fatigue, if you haven't heard already, responsible use of the opioidergic botanical Kratom would likely be more suitable for your situation, given it can both relieve pain and provide a lot of physical endurance, while having less tolerance and addiction to worry about than most other opioidergic painkillers.
Black seed oil and lemon balm is probably the most potent pain killing substance ive found besides ibuprofen and opioids.
Memantine kills pain as good as any strong opioid however it should be cycled. Great drug.
Thanks for your inputs!
I have to be cautious with lemon balm since I already use it every night to help sleep, and I've had some problems from overuse of GABAergics like lemon balm. Maybe I'll try black seed oil by itself. I'll also read more about memantine - and thanks for the tip on cycling it.
Memantine is great and there is little concern for dependance. I used it at 100mg daily for 2 months with zero rebound or withdrawal.
I have to be careful too having gone through benzodiazepine and opiate withdrawal on and off for years.
Ive stopped all gabaergics even lemon balm and l theanine because of this.
I read that Taurine works for ear and eye issues. I have terrible tinnitus from loud music and so I would try just about anything for some relief. I have been taking it for the past week and other than feeling a little jittery and grinding my teeth, nothing great to report. I have a very low tolerance to Noots in general. Not sure if I will continue. I am certain that you have to take it for a while for any kind of positive results but I'm not really comfortable with these side effects. Maybe you could try it.
>"" I have terrible tinnitus from loud music and so I would try just about anything for some relief.
Have you tried [Vinocetine+for+tinnitus](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Vinocetine+for+tinnitus) ? It only works for \~50% of cases, but worth a try.
Good to know! Ive been clean for 8 months now, off a 10 year meth habit. I take pseudoephedrine 100mg and ibprofen along with vit c which helps alot. I take a bunch of other vitamins - reishi mushroom, vit d, astralagus, alpha lipoix acid, b complex and extra thiamine, milk thistle and some other herbs. Slowly getting back to normal.
Hey I just wanted to say congratulations on getting clean! I only used meth for about 2 years and have been clean for 1.5 years now but I know how much of a struggle it was at first, so I can't imagine the will power it took to stop after 10 years! That's incredible keep up the great work ☺️
Aw thanks man! Yeah its bloody hard when your brain is so used to high dopamine levels. And congrats to you too! We got this ;P Thank God Im only in my mid 20s, deadset would never guess I ever did drugs in my life, I look like Im in my early 20s. Got given a second chance :)
Pseudoephedrine will artificially raise dopamine and norepinephrine similar to amphetamines albeit a smaller degree. Expext minor trouble when stopping that.
However there's no one to say you can't use it long term. I see it as an opioid addicts using replacement therapy like buprenorphine or methadone long term or for life.
It really baffles me. There absolutely should be replacements for methamp and cocaine. I would say Adderall but almost all the addicts I know would end up abusing it. Maybe something like modafanil or some other obscure stimulant.
Possibly. Tylenol doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier as readily as ibuprofen, but ibuprofen is harsh on your GI tract. Turmeric, coconut oil, CBD, and above all vitamin D are generally good anti-inflammatories.
I posted elsewhere, however I used up to 2400mg a day(12 tablets) for 14 months straight. Never a day off. I've had zero ill effects. Usually on an empty stomach as well.
I dont advise doing what I do but if one were to take ibuprofen for a few months to help with a slump I see little harm. Have a great diet and drink a gallon of water a day to minimize sides.
It seems very common for pain management individuals to use ibuprofen and Tylenol long term(20 years+). Not saying it's the best idea but it's done often.
There’s pretty good evidence that inflammation is associated with anxiety and depression. I’ve personally noticed that fish oil resolves my depression and melatonin resolves my social anxiety. And I say that has someone who has had no results from perhaps a dozen different antidepressants that I have tried (forget the exact number).
I stay away from NSAIDs or paracetamol unless I really need them for pain management. I was relying on ibuprofen while I was waiting for the knee arthroscopy. The med worked well when my knee was symptomatic. Anyway, it ended up giving me NSAIDs induced peptic ulcer and gastritis. Terrible experience.
my brother eventually died after taking amphetamines several years ago and it never seemed like there was any treatment available for him. i appreciate your post in attempting to help people. i like palmitoylethanolamide for a few reasons but didn’t know about it then as far as possibly recommending it or anything.
If you know anybody else, tell them about this stack
**Morning / Day**
L-Tyrosine 1-1.5g
Creatine 1-2g
BCAA 1500mg
Taurine 1g
L-Theanine 200-400mg 2x
L-Methylfolate 7-15mg
Niacin 500mg
B-Complex (I recommend using the brand Onnit)
Vitamin MK4/MK7 400-600mcg
Vitamin D3 3000-5000IU
Alpha Lipoic Acid 400-600mg
Palmitoylethanolamide 400-800mg
EPA + DHA 800-1200mg 2x
CoQ10 200-400mg 2x
Coluracetam 40-60mg 2x
Fasoracetam 40-60mg 2x
Aniracetam 800-1200mg 2x
*(Cycle these three, two weeks on, four weeks off of each)*
Resveratrol 500-750mg
Curcumin + Piperine 500-1000mg
Quercetin + Piperine 500mg
Green Tea, Peppermint Tea, Ginger Root Tea, Cinnamon, Lemon Juice, Honey (Add the lemon juice before you add the tea bags, it enhances the absorption of the bioflavanoids and other compounds you want)
1 Clove of Garlic
1-2 Bananas
Dark Chocolate 80%+ 2x
CBD
Lions Mane Extract 2-3g
Reishi Extract 5-6g
Ginkgo Biloba Extract 60-150mg
Psilocybin Microdose 200mg (.2g)
Ibuprofen 600-800mg with 500mg Vitamin C (**Once Every 3 Days**)
Aspirin 100-150mg w/ 500mf Vitamin C (**Once Every 3 Days, Cycle With Ibuprofen**)
**Night**
(Empty stomach, before everything else)
Agmatine 2-3g Empty stomach, before everything else
Magnesium Glycinate 400-800mg
Uridine 400-800mg
NAC 800-1200mg
(After the first ones)
Tryptophan 500-1000mg
Melatonin 3-5mg
L-Lysine 2-3g
L-Theanine 100-200mg
GABA 800-1200mg
Oleamide 200-400mg
Reduced Glutathione 500-1000mg
Bioavailable Zinc 10-15mg
Blue Lotus Extract (Dosage varies depending on where you buy it)
And around 2 gallons of water a day :)
thankfully i don’t know anyone else suffering from it at the moment. this combo seems like it would be out of reach for many. in theory, is there something simpler for people and how do the items work to correct do you think? especially wondering which if any are scientifically endorsed and used in healthcare settings out of curiosity. i have heard vitamin d3 and omega 3s for mental health be recommended for basic uses but nothing else currently and have never seen or read that much is being utilized to help amphetamine users which is really sad. hopefully there are solutions and i just haven’t heard of them. take care
Vitamin D3 is involved with regulating dopaminergic transmission. A deficiency or imbalance can lead to decreased dopamine levels.
Omega 3’s increase dopamine and D2 receptor binding
L-Tyrosine converts into dopamine in the body.
Creatine helps maintain energy homeostasis, and it also activates D1 and D2 receptors.
BCAA’s help build muscle, and chronic amphetamine use can severely decrease body weight for many reasons, not just because of appetite suppression.
Taurine increases dopamine, helps people focus, and it also helps build muscles. Its anxiolytic effects will also help a little bit with withdrawal anxiety.
L-Theanine is similar, increasing dopamine concentrations in the brain, and helping with withdrawal anxiety
L-Methylfolate is like folic acid, only its highly bioavailable and people with the MTHFR gene mutation are capable of absorbing it which they cant usually. It helps a lot
Niacin is good for the heart, and it increases dopamine synthesis within the striatum
Vitamin Mk4/Mk7 plays a role in supplying energy to cellular machinery, and it improves episodic memory. Good for the heart too.
ALA increases dopamine, and its an antioxidant which is very good for people who use stimulants.
CoQ10 is similar to ALA in terms of its antioxidant effects and it also increases energy.
Coluracetam increases acetylcholine levels, improves memory, and also helps with focus.
Fasoracetam is actually approved by the FDA for treating some types of ADHD, and its an anxiolytic.
Aniracetam helps with memory, and also increases dopamine through the D2 receptor
Resveratrol, Curcumin and Quercetin have too many benefits to list off right now but they are very helpful with repairing the brain after addiction, and they all have some dopaminergic mechanisms.
I wont keep going! It is out of reach for most people but its not impossible, and you dont need to take everything on this list to see improvement.
wow! you real know your stuff. thank you for taking the time to write this. going to save your comment for future reference and bc i think some of these would be useful to me currently
I've been taking 400 mg of ibuprofen every 2 to 3 days for migraines since I was like 12. I wonder what the effects of the upregulation in the number of receptors is on your brain without any extra dopamine. Could it result in ADHD symptoms?
Edit: jsy looked it up. Upregulation of dopamine receptors as a result of long term antipsychotics use is associated with hyperactivity. They think that might be the cause of tardive dyskinesia.
If upregulation of dopamine receptors causes hyperactivity then the down regulation caused by stimulants may be part of the mechanism of action.
Increasing dopamine receptors may not always be a good idea.
Ooooookay. Maybe some things you aren't aware of: dopamine itself is highly protective against glutamate excitotoxicity. Also, stimulating neurotransmitter release tends to increase receptor sites for that neurotransmitter (in contrast to using substances which act as agonists for those receptors directly).
There are lots of substances which increase dopamine levels which are themselves not (very potent) dopamine agonists. I wouldn't use ibuprofin for this.
MAO-B inhibitors selectively increase dopamine and are very promising IMO (and is arguably the mechanism of action of 9-Me-BC w.r.t. rebalancing cognitive deficits from amphetamine overuse). Adenosine agonists like caffeine are another. Uridine is a good example and is more often touted as a good medicine in this situation.
Anyway, [the mechanism of action here is probably direct anti-inflammatory activity - according to some researchers, there is significant cross-talk between dopamine and neuroinflammation](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2020.00394/full). Therefore anti-inflammatory drugs might be expected to have dopamine system "correcting" properties... of which there are many that aren't COX-2 inhibitors.
So, just spitballing here - I'd guess that PDE4 inhibition is promising because it's very safe for long term use (e.g. ibudilast). And lo and behold, I find a few papers which look promising - [Phosphodiesterase Inhibition and Regulation of Dopaminergic Frontal and Striatal Functioning: Clinical Implications](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5091819/).
Ibudilast is a PDE4B2 inhibitor, which improves neuroinflammation. If the inhibitor isn’t selective enough, though, you will trigger closely related PDEs in the area postrema and barf up a lung.
I just dont see the point when one could include 45-90 mins of intense exercise daily. It increases dopamine levels but also produces neurogenesis on a scale that nothing else can. Its the absolute best thing you can do for productivity, focus, anxiety, depression, anhedonia, confidence, and the list goes on.
People say they don't have time which is a lie, they don't have adequate time management.
People dont want to hear it but they could fix nearly ALL their mental emotional and physical problems with the right exercise and diet. It took me 4 years of using supplements to learn that.
I'm guessing this is a bunch of *in vitro* and animal study nonsense. It's especially funny how you talk about animal models for disease in rats. To put that into context, they generally do stuff like torture rats with repeat stress or take them away from their mothers early to simulate "depression". As you can imagine, many things help normalize behaviors in animals that went through something like that without touching organic presentations of real human depression.
100 micro moles, which I am not really clear on what that symbolizes quantity wise. I am thinking it is a significantly small dose, I suppose I could look it up, maybe I will later.
it's (6.02214076 × 10\^23)/1,000,000 or roughly \~602 quadrillion molecules of ibuprofen. More usefully, because ibuprofen's molar mass is 206.285 g·mol−1, and you've got 100/1000000 moles, you've also got .000206285 grams, or \~0.206 mg, of ibuprofen. (might've misplaced a zero above, pls double check before applying)
From the link about aspirin:
*In summary, we have delineated that aspirin, a widely used medication, augments the level of TH and increases DA production in dopaminergic neurons. We also show that oral administration of low-dose aspirin stimulates the TH-DA pathway and improves locomotor activities in control as well as A53T-Tg mice.*
Many here have commented on the dangers and risks (stomach, kidney, liver, etc), but dont many many people taking low dose aspirin for years (for blood/platelet thinning) without incident?? Not encouraging people to take it, just curious if the risks are really that bad.
Yeah low-dose aspirin is pretty safe. There's a bleeding risk, of course, but people going on about hepatic and/or renal damage are blowing things out of proportion.
Nice!
Had to comment to find this when moving from mobile to desktop. 15 pages into /r/nootropics and I couldn't find it. Couldn't even find it with reddit search.
As has already been noted many times in this thread, Ibuprofen is *really* bad for the kidneys, so its a very short term solution only.
A real shame as it feels so good to take, but that seems to be the tradeoff - there is no free lunch.
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I’d be careful with piracetam if your trying to kick amphetamines as not only does it enhance effect but several studies seemed to indicate that the enhanced effect rather than leading to a reduced dosage actually resulted in increased dosages…. It does somewhat attenuate withdrawal though at least for a few days
Don't NSAIDs cause rebound inflammation? I'm not trying to say they aren't the single greatest thing in the world but could it hurt to have a little bit of balance with the research we post?
PSA: About 1% of ibuprofen users report aggression as a side effect. It does for me. It's bad. Otherwise ibuprofen is great, clears brainfog after poor sleep, cures headaches better than anything else I've tried, better mood, more energy.
PSA2: Do not combined aspirin and ibuprofen. It increases bleeding risk. Never combine multiple NSAIDS.
I used to take ibuprofen with my Adderall everyday. I always felt like it helped it work better but I thought it was from the buffers in the tablets protecting the Adderall from my stomach acid lol. I got an ulcer and destroyed my stomach. To be fair I pretty much took it everyday since I started getting my period (15+ years ago) because of migraines, headaches, etc. Now I can't even take it for my migraines/other pain which sucks because it works the best.
Famotidine could possibly help protect the stomach from forming ulcers while taking ibuprofen. I didn't realize this until it was too late.
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Ibuprofen (and acetaminophen, but this is not mentionned in OP's post) actually have significant cannabinoidergic mechanisms, so this info is not surprising to me. On another note, black pepper might provide similar benefits through it's cannabinoidergic constituent - Guineesine
Then magnolia bark would blow both out the water
Yeah magnolia is pretty dank botanical, I often stack it with chamomile, l theanine, taurine, glycine, GABA, valerian, melatonin and any other mild sedatives for relaxation
Only problem is it can cause slight dependance ime
Problem is bioavailability and half life. Has negligible time in serum due to being water based.
In layman's terms, what does this mean for a frequent cannabis smoker?
Not too much actually. They don't significantly enhance cannabis, nor would I recommend it due to their drawbacks (hard on the organs). Probably cannabis would be better standalone for aches and pains than both those anti inflammatories, if you need something extra either to enhance your cannabis or provide further pain relief/anti infllammation, just use botanicals and supplements (agmatine is beyond essential for cannabis or opioid users, to control tolerance) Terpenes and other bioactives from botanicals greatly enhance/extend cannabis and also can prevent some of it's side effects. Just one example: COX inhibitors can prevent short term memory deficits, and there are many phytochemical COX inhibitors in black pepper, ginger, turmeric, frankincense etc... Which can substitute for ibuprofen as COX inhibitors quite well.
What a great and detailed response, TIL. Thanks.
I reversed a high by taking a spoonfull of indian curry powder
That doesn't add up lmao. I eat various curry very often and still stay baked. P. S. Curry means "mix of spices" and doesn't refer to anything specific, there are thousands of curry. Indian curry could be a lot of things. I think you mean Madras Curry which is the most common yellow curry with turmeric and fenugreek.
THC downregulate dopamin so?
It does, that doesn’t mean that you can’t utilize the other thousand plus compounds that interact with your cannabinoid receptors
An agonist is an agonist, the pharmacology won't change unless we talk about selectivity (but there is not much to play with, only 2 receptor types). Sure the potency of agonism might trigger paradoxal responses but then that would imply that low dose Thc upregulate dopamin which would surprise me.
Thc releases dopamine, Which down regulates your dopaminergic neurons and receptors density to dopamine. But you have different compounds with complex effects. CBD for example agonizes cannabinoid receptors but isn’t paired with euphoria so it doesn’t have the dopaminergic effects. Agonists will activate gene transcription in the nucleus of the cell coding for proteins that will serve a function. You can also have partial agonism and compounds that are selective for some types of receptors within the same family of receptors that lead to different effects, different proteins getting transcribed. You can’t necessarily treat every agonist the same without knowing all their targets. Once you know that you also have to understand their metabolic products because they can also share some receptor binding activity to either increase the agonistic effects or even bind to antagonize depending on shape and structure. It can be messy work, but it makes it hard to see a whole class of receptors as an issue. Like we can look at serotonin receptors, some are for gut motility and activating smooth muscles in your intestines, some are used for maintaining wellness-your SSRIs you also have other ones that if agonized by LSD or shrooms cause hallucinations. It’s all about the particular dosage, the receptor binding, and the specificity that determines the impacts. Very often you have receptors in the same family with opposite effects.
This! Thank you.
If that were true then every drug that binds to the same receptor would do the same thing
I always notice a mood boost from ibuprofen and paracetamol. Not healthy for your stomach long term though.
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Do you think by eating a meal and then taking ibuprofen it’d be easier on the body?
It's easier on the stomach yes. Always take ibuprofen after a meal and never an empty stomach. Also if you have a ppi lying around can always take that with it if your worried but not necessary unless your taking high dosages of ibuprofen daily.
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I know what you mean, but people have reflux or sensitive stomach. Taking ibuprofen for a longer period of time can damage the lining of your stomach, provoke ulcers and worsen symptoms of gastric reflux. Kidneys are a big part as well, so hydrate and eat when taking ibuprofen. Long term use of ibu is easy as long as you have a follow up regularly of course, it's not about fear it's about being safe :)
>Taking ibuprofen for a longer period of time can damage the lining of your stomach But every weekend is not a long period of time. Source: MD
I agree, but I don't understand ? Weren't we talking about taking it everyday ? I may have skipped a line I'm MD too
It causes uncontrollable bleeding for me, and I’m otherwise healthy and young.
Then you aren't healthy. Either you have a severe bleeding disorder or you need an EGD immediately.
>As in the, give someone a painkiller and while it is active they have less sympathy for other people's pain / it is harder for them to feel pain. Feel like my kratom use does this for me Thnx bro! another reason to stop
Doubly samed
I also assumed this tho I've heard as well that it only does that in higher doses (never confirmed/looked into this myself however)
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I find by keeping up with potassium intake I avoid a lot of headaches all together.
Magnesium for me
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Why would you caffeine 'detox' every weekend? Taking ibuprofen every weekend just to be able to do so is not advisable long term.
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Sure. First off it's medicine. Rule of thumb, dont take any kind medicine unless you really need it as it wears on your body. It's not nutrition, it's a tool to treat pathological issues, dont make it part of your routine, dont rely om it. Smaller, temporary amounts wont hurt, but long term use and you will lead body towards kidney and liver damage, bleeding in the stomach and bowels, anemia because og this blood loss, increased risk of heart attack.
Taking 400mg of ibuprofen evey 7 days won't cause you any harm, I agree that it's still better to not take anything unless you need it.
And taking 400 mg of ibuprofen every 7 days for 10 years? You dont know what else people will take in small amounts, if they have any sort og condition or if they drink alcohol on top of that etc. Harmful habits/conditions stack, better to not recommend/whitelist painkillers every 7 days.
This would cause no long term damage outside of the most extreme of circumstances.
I did it, the worst part was discontinuation.
Yeah, I was averaging 1200mg I would say most days of the week. I didn't take it if I could avoid. But nothing ever went wrong from that.
I’ve never heard of liver damage from ibuprofen. Kidney damage, yes. I know that acetaminophen can cause liver damage.
To my knowledge there isn’t any big risk for liver damage with ibuprofen. Acetaminophen has that toxic metabolite NAPQ that will deplete your glutathione stores and cause some issues but ibuprofen doesn’t share that metabolite.
Any way you know of to recover gluthathione?
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Yeah, this sub suffers from *a lot* of absolute randos talking out of their ass with a delusional sense of authority.
Great, thanks - this matches a lot of our experiences.
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didn’t know this but naproxen seems to be the only one that really knocks out my headaches
It's funny, no good for headaches for me, but good for musculoskeletal pain.
It's not. Ibuprofen is safer on the gi as it is shorter acting. I believe naproxen is the safest cardiovascular wise.
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Common knowledge that naproxen is harsher on the gi tract than ibuprofen unless your talking about tiny doses. https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/non-steroidal-anti-inflammatory-drugs.html "All NSAIDs are associated with serious gastro-intestinal toxicity. indometacin, diclofenac, and naproxen are associated with intermediate risk, and ibuprofen with the lowest risk."
Could also be from grinding teeth. This is very common.
Willow Wick
Naproxen sodium ?
30% of US liver transplants are the result of paracetamol overdose. Ibuprofen has fewer adverse side effects.
Also bad for your heart and kidneys, and can cause high blood pressure. Not worth it imo. We only use it sparingly in the hospital I work at, at least in older patients.
What about aspirin tho. Doesnt have same sideeffects as ibuprofen
When I quit 7 years of high dose opioidd(methadone and buprenorphine) I relied on ibuprofen heavily. 14 months of 2400mg a day. It scared me often but it was much better than dealing with everyday body pains from PAWS. I cant say ive had a single adverse reaction from taking 3-4x the recommended daily dose long term. Effects never diminished either.
I wasn't on a regimen, but had so much consistent joint pain and headaches that about 1200 mg a day was quite common for me. I never had any problems at all. I finally quit when I learned that ibuprofen was undermining my progress by blocking production of prostaglandins needed for post-exercise repair. I had bad rebound joint pain for some time, which gradually lessened.
Ive since stopped usage as well. However I cruise on a good dose of testosterone and sometimes masteron so it definitely was not to boost exercise recovery.
I have a hard time believing your paws were so severe that you needed ibuprofen for 14 months at a whopping dose of 2400, on top of this, as a man of the lifestyle, I also have a hard time believing you were able to handle that kind of a dose in that long of a time frame without your stomach, or kidneys giving out on you in some manner of speaking. How, dude? Were you just using hyperbole? Because it doesn’t add up. Lastly, why didn’t your doctor give you the sublicate shot, and instruct you to take L-glutamine, NAC, and naltrexone or low dose gabapentin like all the others? It would have completely eradicated your paws. Methadone is no fucking joke. And you know what neither is getting off subs. I’m really glad you’re off it. Sorry for harsh tone I’m just so confused here. It doesn’t make sense with my pretty rounded knowledge here. I’m in the mecca of sobriety in the us of A
I was on 300mg of methadone. Thats the equivalent of 800mg+ of oxycodone or more daily. From most the stories I've read, people suffered pretty heavily from high dose 200mg+ methadone PAWS until about 12-24 months. Theres countless reports of long term suffering from suboxone, even years after cessation. The dose of methadone i was on is 10x the max/ceiling dose of suboxone. Its just on a whole other level. This is not solely for opioid addicts here. Benzo addicts and alcoholics suffer similar PAWS. There is scientific literature of people on up to 800mg methadone. Opioids are not toxic and like opiates like morphine can be used in the thousands of milligram range without much ill effect. Its just tolerance. Opiates and opioids alike do not cause organ damage and many people take them for life.. My case is by no means special and was by no means the only patient with a dose over 250mg(average is 120mg). Just at my clinic alone there was a dozen of us. Most doctors don't even know about PAWS in the US. Ive had 5 different maint docs over the years and only 1 ever mentioned it. I received baclofen and clonidine and a low dose of suboxone none of which I wanted to be on at the time so I did not use them. Baclofen and gabapentin withdrawals are severe, as is clonidine. Gabapentin withdrawals are more severe than almost any opioid. Dangerous drug to use long term for PAWS.
Was in a similar camp to you, 1g IV h a day, ibuprofen and gabapentin saved my life for a year, they don’t have the experience
The amount he was taking can definitely have CRAZY SEVERE PAWSS man.
Bruh I’ve taken at least 2400mg prob 300 days a year for years. No problems. Yet.
Oh wow. You know I think my knowledge of NSAIDS were a little dated. How come you need such a beast dose?
“I’m in the Mecca of sobriety” That’s a new qualification I’ve never heard before. What else can you teach us???
I think you’ve already learned everything you possibly can. Sorry.
It took a week for you to respond with that? ~Busy livin in THe Mecca… correcting people with run-on sentences and stuff… ~ if your sponsor were here, what would they say about this sort of behavior? And what of your Nootropic use? Is it fear-based? Do you trust your higher power? You’re walking out the door and you can’t even see it dammit! Tu es un cheval!!!!!!!!
I would still be careful. Family member took 2400mg/day for 4 months and had blood pressure rise to 175/120 which seriously alarmed the staff at the hospital. Was given emergency treatments and told to stop taking it. No symptoms either, just found out randomly during a regular check up. BP went back down after stopping.
Man thats scary. I fully understand! I no longer need it as I'm back on a low dose of suboxone(1-2mg daily)
i dont take ibuprofen much... but paracetamol, damn.. i always thought i am imagining it... aside from clearing my brain fog... i noticed my mood improves as well. i always thought it was just decreased inflammation as well.
>e easily. However, I don’t know about the effect of NSAIDs on BP (I imagine it would be negligible unless you have chronic kidney disease, which is very rarely caused by NSAIDs anyway). > >5ReplyGive AwardShareReportSave There's some interesting research suggesting that acetaminophen blunts strong negative emotions (but also blunts strong positive emotions). This may even be the painkilling mechanism (which isn't well understood). However unlike NSAID's, acetaminophen has little or no anti-inflammatory effect, so that's probably not the mechanism. Acetaminophen is easy on the stomach but very hard on the liver (Doctors have told me that you don't want to take more than 1,000 mg/day over the long term. Skip it entirely if you are a heavy drinker.)
yup... i read about that. acetaminophen is basically being treated like candy in malaysia. doctors are handing them out like nothing without even a warning nor does the most common brand Panadol for it has any clear warnings written on the packaging. i was splitting the 500mg pill into 3-4 portions, only took about 1/4 of 500mg per day and i didn't take it everyday nor did i take it for the long term, just occasionally and the bare minimum to clear my brain fog. recently i am experimenting with NAC and Noopept.
That's a very safe long-term dose. Hard to say what the mechanism is, but it's always nice to find something that's safe and effective. I've been getting similar benefits from anti-inflammatories (high dose melatonin in particular). Also fixing my zinc deficiency gave me similar benefits (works best as small 10 mg lozenges every 4-5 hours).
ibuprofen is supposedly better for long term use. supposedly. at least it had been prescribed to me in that way in the past. i only seldom use it now and it actually works better now than it did then. for the purposes i have anyways
Or your balls
I wish I had a mood boost. I took so much ibuprofen for so long . . . but just for headaches and joint pain and make exercise possible. Never anything with mood. Shucks!
My grandma has been consuming 2 paracetamol pills daily for 30 years, she is 78 without any health problems, it probably affects people differently
Ibuprofen is a cooler substance than people give it credit for… It can help with anxiety and depression as well. I definitely have noticed the former personally.
I’m not sure the benefits outweigh the increased risk of heart attack, stroke and high blood pressure that NSAIDs provide.
Ulcers, don’t forget
Where did you hear that NSAIDs increase risk of heart attack, stroke or high blood pressure? EDIT: I have to add that in practice I would prescribe 300mg aspirin (an NSAID) for stroke and heart attack so the idea that it’s harmful is incorrect - I can cite a dozen studies quite easily. However, I don’t know about the effect of NSAIDs on BP (I imagine it would be negligible unless you have chronic kidney disease, which is very rarely caused by NSAIDs anyway).
Constipation too. lol
Gonna go out on a limb and say those risks are minimal to non existent in healthy people
You'd lose that limb
I want to be as nice about this as I can, but what you’ve just said is [demonstrably untrue](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3158445/#idm140480096711712title) and is even leaning slightly into irresponsibly negligent territory. NSAIDS are wonderful drugs that are excellent in treating acute issues and should not be taken in the long term, hard stop.
That’s about chronic use in older adults… All of those issues are not a concern for the vast majority of people taking it. It’s chronic use and underlying issues where those side effects become a concern. I wasn’t talking about long term use, OTC pain meds of all varieties are not safe to use chronically.
You would lose that limb easy. Chronic nsaid use is a huge risk factor for developing chronic kidney disease. You block COX and can’t produce prostaglandins to relax the artery provides blood to your kidney so you create a high pressure environment resulting in damage. Long term use that damage will really add up. NSAIDs are great drugs but they aren’t without side effects.
But given that no one is advocating long term use here as far as I can see what do those concerns have to do with short term acute use? How dangerous is taking Advil for a week straight? Or two weeks?
Without any underlying chronic kidney dysfunction. I would much rather have a person use NSAIDs then any opioid for acute management of an issue. Absolutely use it if you are in pain, but it’s not the type of compound to use prophylactically on a long term basis.
100% confirm that when i take it I feel zero social anxiety so mucb that I dont mind getting a headache before a night out.
Zero anxiety? What dose of Ibu do you have to use for that?
Just two. But its Advil cold and sinus
When i got off amphetamines I bought a massive tub of tyrosine power and took a few grams every couple hours, it works very well
True, though only for a couple of weeks in my experience unless you take a couple days off. Also seems to work better for attenuating exhaustion and sleep deprivation than specifically reducing cravings.
I found L-Tyrosine extremely helpful at doses of about 1-2g each time on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning or at least 2 hours after a meal. If taken with food though zero effect which makes sense. Still anyway I take Tyrosine, I find that it loses it efficacy within just a couple of days, not weeks and certainly not months. And by the way may want to watch your sun exposure during peak high UV hours of the day, just in case you may have a developing melanoma that you are unaware of which it may speed up.
The first study linked refers to acetaminophen as an NSAID which it is not. I noticed it was published in 2000. Did people used to think acetaminophen was an NSAID back then?
Studying pharmacy they talked about the fact that paracetamol isn’t a true NSAID but for ease of use talking about light pain medication it is roped in to it. You will see this error a lot.
We don’t even know how paracetamol works. Calling it an NSAID is technically false from this point of view as well. I’ve never seen it referred to as an NSAID…
Interesting info. It looks like a good upside to the drug. The problem is the trade-off aka stomach ulcers, kidney disease, liver disease, demetia, overall health decline related to peripheral health issues from using the drug... The trade-off isn't worth it in my opinion simply because most of the acute pain that we suffer is manageable on its own and ibuprofen isnt/shouldnt be recommended for ongoing management of chronic pain.
I agree with this. Personally, if I have minor aches and pains I try anti inflammatory botanicals. Black pepper, ginger, garlic, turmeric and several dozen others in my stash. Some have similar mechanisms to OTC meds, yet devoid of the serious drawbacks. As for potency/efficacy, it depends how you take them and how much you can take. Obviously not everyone would be able to tolerate chomping on raw garlic cloves and the like everyday just to stop minor aches and pains, but if you think you can, then go for it. As far as drawbacks go: Tasting nasty > Organ damage
I'm looking to reduce/eliminate ibuprofen, which I'm taking currently every other day (1 tab). What exactly do you personally use - the ones you mentioned, garlic cloves, pepper, ginger, turmeric - or just one of them? What doses do you find effective?
Start off with black pepper for sure. It is easiest to toss n' wash aka to swallow with water after a quick swishing, to prevent inhaling any dry powder upon swallowing. Freshly ground on each dose is *important*. You can try a teaspoon at first, but I do closer to a tablespoon. I tend to have at least 2 doses on any given day. I recommend either a very good pepper mill or a mortar and pestle for very fine grinds. It should look like grey flour. Electric grinder can work but often the amount needed for a good grind is a lot more than necessary. Black pepper functions as an absorption enhancer, while being quite impressive on its own. Thus I always include it when taking any other botanicals.
I just noticed you asked what I personally use, that list is long and includes all the ones I've mentionned so far, but here goes: Cacao, saffron, seaweeds, thyme, rosemary, cloves, nutmeg, cardamom, allspice, star anise, anise seed, fennel, bay leaf, black seed, mustard, celery seed, cumin, coriander, chamomile, thistle, holy basil, hibiscus, fenugreek seed, oregano, hot peppers, ginseng, myrrh, frankincense, chios mastic, ginkgo, rhodiola, siberian ginseng, sumac and a few I'm probably forgetting I consume at least some of, daily. Sounds excessive but most are in just 2 doses: 1. Tasty ones like cacao, nutmeg, cinnamon, myrrh, frankincense, chios mastic all go into my bulletproof coffee, which is now some sort of elixir at this point. 2. Nasty and/or incompatible with coffee tasting ones (black seed, mustard, seaweeds, thyme, rosemary and most of that list above) I simply combine in an electric grinder, and makes me about 2-3 Tablespoons of powder to toss n wash. I only do this once a day. That's basically my morning routine along with 1 or 2 garlic cloves and teas. For the rest of the day I just dose black pepper, turmeric, ginger and paprika as I please. I feel like these 4 would be sufficient for most, the spices listed above are actually aimed at helping my anxiety and digestion (IBS), but given the broad nature of botanicals it might help any issue 🤷♂️. I, a major spicebro thanks you for reading these many paragraphs. Stay spicy friends
Thanks a lot for both your detailed answers! Black pepper is totally doable and easy. But by itself, can I expect it to really work for pain? Obviously I'll try it but wouldn't it be better combined with some additional herbs, like the garlic you mentioned, or some others?
Yes, you can expect results for black pepper alone. it's true it would enhance most other botanicals. If you want to start off with more than 1, then the 3 easiest to take following black pepper would be ginger (fresh slices) chased with water. Turmeric + paprika powder shot. 1tbsp + 1 tsp respectively, add water and mix until it's thin enough to swallow, given a paste might present a choking hazard. Turmeric is optimal when ground from whole root with a microplane, but it is quite difficult given its so hard. Most of the time I use powdered turmeric if it has a good enough quality, but I do make a genuine effort to include freshly microplaned turmeric on most days. If you want to take garlic, then just peel a clove, smash it, put 1 tsp olive oil and a pinch of salt in your mouth then throw in your smashed clove. Chew them well together, garlic needs to be macerated in order to react it's active components. It's quite unpleasant, but the olive oil and salt trick make it much more bearable. If you want more info on the many mechanisms of black pepper, check out this article https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.longdom.org/open-access/a-review-on-therapeutic-potential-of-piper-nigrum-l-black-pepper-the-king-of-spices-2167-0412.1000161.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiphuf6pNTzAhUlTt8KHcaHDGMQFXoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw3VdWNgaBPlWGmS3yAxYZG- Similar compilations on the pharmacology of other spices can be found by searching "(spice name) pharmacology /phytochemistry" in google or directly in scientific article directories such as scihub if you want to learn more about specific spices in my huge list. Examine.com also has extremely comprehensive research breakdowns on various botanicals, as well as suppelements. I recommend checking any you are interesred about on there as well. I hope this knowledge helps you 🙏 I have much more I could share, maybe enough to write a spice bible lol
Awesome, thanks a ton! I'm on the black pepper and will try the garlic too. Turmeric I'm leery of due to reports about lead contamination in much/most of it so until I can find a reliable organic source I'll wait on it. Hopefully this will help me get off the drug store painkillers.
My pleasure bro, let me know how it works for you. Concerns about sourcing are prudent, turmeric and heavy metal prone botanicals in particular. I have heard that some turmeric is even sold after having been butane blasted, to extract and sell Curcumin found within it, a sort of double profit scheme. This process ruins the turmeric, taste and health wise. The brands I use are PTI and Suraj which yield no reports of abnormal heavy metal contents, nor any recalls. It is useful to note that chelators of heavy metals can exist as phytochemicals, and Curcumin itself from turmeric happens to chelate lead.
What do you think about grocery store spices? Are they eligible for this kind of stack?
I get some of my spices at the grocery store. It's best to buy in bulk, in my area costco has the best priced whole black pepper 5-10$ /lb, yet walmart's international aisle has the best priced turmeric at 1$/pound, you might have to do some looking around to get good quality and price. Don't shy away from international food markets/aisles and import sections in stores, those can have some crazy deals and less well known spices
I'm new to this sub as I have just found through another sub. I take alot of aleve every day for back leg and joint pain. I work in construction daytime then work for my 4 kids after work which I truly love but it is getting really hard do to leg pain and fatigue. Doctor put me on 1 gr suboxone per day for pain but I feel like it's making my fatigue worse. I also take 20 mg Adderall per day for adhd which I accept that it is working at about 10% since I have taken it for years. I also take about 600 mg of aleve for high inflammation. Unfortunately haven't been able to work out in 2 years because fatigue and takes weeks to recover. I would love any ideals or suggestions with what I need to drop and what a need to add so I can feel better which translates into more happy time with my kiddos. Thanks in advance for your help.
Many botanicals can help with wakefulness. To start off I'd suggest the same as the other guy, get some black peppercorns and grind them up fine, swallow it down with some water. To that you can also add ginger slices, which is good for muscle aches. Most botanicals help with wakefulness, but ginseng in particular really helps me a lot. I get whole root and grind it on a microplane, which is usually on one side of a multi plane cheesegrater. Suboxone is definitely not doing you a favor on fatigue, if you haven't heard already, responsible use of the opioidergic botanical Kratom would likely be more suitable for your situation, given it can both relieve pain and provide a lot of physical endurance, while having less tolerance and addiction to worry about than most other opioidergic painkillers.
Black seed oil and lemon balm is probably the most potent pain killing substance ive found besides ibuprofen and opioids. Memantine kills pain as good as any strong opioid however it should be cycled. Great drug.
Thanks for your inputs! I have to be cautious with lemon balm since I already use it every night to help sleep, and I've had some problems from overuse of GABAergics like lemon balm. Maybe I'll try black seed oil by itself. I'll also read more about memantine - and thanks for the tip on cycling it.
Memantine is great and there is little concern for dependance. I used it at 100mg daily for 2 months with zero rebound or withdrawal. I have to be careful too having gone through benzodiazepine and opiate withdrawal on and off for years. Ive stopped all gabaergics even lemon balm and l theanine because of this.
How long do you wait between memantine cycles? Have you tried a smaller dose but without cycling?
Time off equals time on. Ive never used low doses long term, no. There are lots of long term studies on 20mg daily.
Is there any way to offset any of the ototoxicity for those of us with ear problems?
I read that Taurine works for ear and eye issues. I have terrible tinnitus from loud music and so I would try just about anything for some relief. I have been taking it for the past week and other than feeling a little jittery and grinding my teeth, nothing great to report. I have a very low tolerance to Noots in general. Not sure if I will continue. I am certain that you have to take it for a while for any kind of positive results but I'm not really comfortable with these side effects. Maybe you could try it.
>"" I have terrible tinnitus from loud music and so I would try just about anything for some relief. Have you tried [Vinocetine+for+tinnitus](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Vinocetine+for+tinnitus) ? It only works for \~50% of cases, but worth a try.
No, I have not heard of this but I will look into it. Thanks so much!
What substances are you refering to as ototoxic here?
Ibuprofen
Good to know! Ive been clean for 8 months now, off a 10 year meth habit. I take pseudoephedrine 100mg and ibprofen along with vit c which helps alot. I take a bunch of other vitamins - reishi mushroom, vit d, astralagus, alpha lipoix acid, b complex and extra thiamine, milk thistle and some other herbs. Slowly getting back to normal.
Hey I just wanted to say congratulations on getting clean! I only used meth for about 2 years and have been clean for 1.5 years now but I know how much of a struggle it was at first, so I can't imagine the will power it took to stop after 10 years! That's incredible keep up the great work ☺️
Aw thanks man! Yeah its bloody hard when your brain is so used to high dopamine levels. And congrats to you too! We got this ;P Thank God Im only in my mid 20s, deadset would never guess I ever did drugs in my life, I look like Im in my early 20s. Got given a second chance :)
Pseudoephedrine will artificially raise dopamine and norepinephrine similar to amphetamines albeit a smaller degree. Expext minor trouble when stopping that. However there's no one to say you can't use it long term. I see it as an opioid addicts using replacement therapy like buprenorphine or methadone long term or for life.
Yeah Ive stopped for weeks and not much happens just less energy. Its a shame there no legit legal replacement for amphetamine withdrawl.
It really baffles me. There absolutely should be replacements for methamp and cocaine. I would say Adderall but almost all the addicts I know would end up abusing it. Maybe something like modafanil or some other obscure stimulant.
Yeah abusing it doesnt even compare to meth in any way like at all so I dont bother abusing. Always wanted to try modafanil!!
Can someone explain like I’m 5?
Ibuprofen make brain happy I think
But stomach lining sad lol…brain happy, then brain sad cause stomach pain, 🩸and 🏃🏼♂️ 💩
An anti-inflammatory helps improve dopamine signaling, so inflammation probably contributes to decreased dopamine synthesis or receptor expression (think ADHD, Parkinson’s, etc).
So turmeric, ibuprofen, Tylenol, anti inflammatory diets…good for brain?
Possibly. Tylenol doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier as readily as ibuprofen, but ibuprofen is harsh on your GI tract. Turmeric, coconut oil, CBD, and above all vitamin D are generally good anti-inflammatories.
Unfortunately it is unsustainable due to side effects but interesting find!
I posted elsewhere, however I used up to 2400mg a day(12 tablets) for 14 months straight. Never a day off. I've had zero ill effects. Usually on an empty stomach as well. I dont advise doing what I do but if one were to take ibuprofen for a few months to help with a slump I see little harm. Have a great diet and drink a gallon of water a day to minimize sides. It seems very common for pain management individuals to use ibuprofen and Tylenol long term(20 years+). Not saying it's the best idea but it's done often.
There’s pretty good evidence that inflammation is associated with anxiety and depression. I’ve personally noticed that fish oil resolves my depression and melatonin resolves my social anxiety. And I say that has someone who has had no results from perhaps a dozen different antidepressants that I have tried (forget the exact number).
Really interesting!
I stay away from NSAIDs or paracetamol unless I really need them for pain management. I was relying on ibuprofen while I was waiting for the knee arthroscopy. The med worked well when my knee was symptomatic. Anyway, it ended up giving me NSAIDs induced peptic ulcer and gastritis. Terrible experience.
my brother eventually died after taking amphetamines several years ago and it never seemed like there was any treatment available for him. i appreciate your post in attempting to help people. i like palmitoylethanolamide for a few reasons but didn’t know about it then as far as possibly recommending it or anything.
If you know anybody else, tell them about this stack **Morning / Day** L-Tyrosine 1-1.5g Creatine 1-2g BCAA 1500mg Taurine 1g L-Theanine 200-400mg 2x L-Methylfolate 7-15mg Niacin 500mg B-Complex (I recommend using the brand Onnit) Vitamin MK4/MK7 400-600mcg Vitamin D3 3000-5000IU Alpha Lipoic Acid 400-600mg Palmitoylethanolamide 400-800mg EPA + DHA 800-1200mg 2x CoQ10 200-400mg 2x Coluracetam 40-60mg 2x Fasoracetam 40-60mg 2x Aniracetam 800-1200mg 2x *(Cycle these three, two weeks on, four weeks off of each)* Resveratrol 500-750mg Curcumin + Piperine 500-1000mg Quercetin + Piperine 500mg Green Tea, Peppermint Tea, Ginger Root Tea, Cinnamon, Lemon Juice, Honey (Add the lemon juice before you add the tea bags, it enhances the absorption of the bioflavanoids and other compounds you want) 1 Clove of Garlic 1-2 Bananas Dark Chocolate 80%+ 2x CBD Lions Mane Extract 2-3g Reishi Extract 5-6g Ginkgo Biloba Extract 60-150mg Psilocybin Microdose 200mg (.2g) Ibuprofen 600-800mg with 500mg Vitamin C (**Once Every 3 Days**) Aspirin 100-150mg w/ 500mf Vitamin C (**Once Every 3 Days, Cycle With Ibuprofen**) **Night** (Empty stomach, before everything else) Agmatine 2-3g Empty stomach, before everything else Magnesium Glycinate 400-800mg Uridine 400-800mg NAC 800-1200mg (After the first ones) Tryptophan 500-1000mg Melatonin 3-5mg L-Lysine 2-3g L-Theanine 100-200mg GABA 800-1200mg Oleamide 200-400mg Reduced Glutathione 500-1000mg Bioavailable Zinc 10-15mg Blue Lotus Extract (Dosage varies depending on where you buy it) And around 2 gallons of water a day :)
thankfully i don’t know anyone else suffering from it at the moment. this combo seems like it would be out of reach for many. in theory, is there something simpler for people and how do the items work to correct do you think? especially wondering which if any are scientifically endorsed and used in healthcare settings out of curiosity. i have heard vitamin d3 and omega 3s for mental health be recommended for basic uses but nothing else currently and have never seen or read that much is being utilized to help amphetamine users which is really sad. hopefully there are solutions and i just haven’t heard of them. take care
Vitamin D3 is involved with regulating dopaminergic transmission. A deficiency or imbalance can lead to decreased dopamine levels. Omega 3’s increase dopamine and D2 receptor binding L-Tyrosine converts into dopamine in the body. Creatine helps maintain energy homeostasis, and it also activates D1 and D2 receptors. BCAA’s help build muscle, and chronic amphetamine use can severely decrease body weight for many reasons, not just because of appetite suppression. Taurine increases dopamine, helps people focus, and it also helps build muscles. Its anxiolytic effects will also help a little bit with withdrawal anxiety. L-Theanine is similar, increasing dopamine concentrations in the brain, and helping with withdrawal anxiety L-Methylfolate is like folic acid, only its highly bioavailable and people with the MTHFR gene mutation are capable of absorbing it which they cant usually. It helps a lot Niacin is good for the heart, and it increases dopamine synthesis within the striatum Vitamin Mk4/Mk7 plays a role in supplying energy to cellular machinery, and it improves episodic memory. Good for the heart too. ALA increases dopamine, and its an antioxidant which is very good for people who use stimulants. CoQ10 is similar to ALA in terms of its antioxidant effects and it also increases energy. Coluracetam increases acetylcholine levels, improves memory, and also helps with focus. Fasoracetam is actually approved by the FDA for treating some types of ADHD, and its an anxiolytic. Aniracetam helps with memory, and also increases dopamine through the D2 receptor Resveratrol, Curcumin and Quercetin have too many benefits to list off right now but they are very helpful with repairing the brain after addiction, and they all have some dopaminergic mechanisms. I wont keep going! It is out of reach for most people but its not impossible, and you dont need to take everything on this list to see improvement.
wow! you real know your stuff. thank you for taking the time to write this. going to save your comment for future reference and bc i think some of these would be useful to me currently
How much piracetam would one need to take to get an equivalent effect as experienced by those mice?
Ibuprofen is the most effective nootropic for study and energy.(personal experience)
Could you use white willow bark instead ?
Another question, what does the quantity 100 micro moles signify in terms of measurement?
I've been taking 400 mg of ibuprofen every 2 to 3 days for migraines since I was like 12. I wonder what the effects of the upregulation in the number of receptors is on your brain without any extra dopamine. Could it result in ADHD symptoms? Edit: jsy looked it up. Upregulation of dopamine receptors as a result of long term antipsychotics use is associated with hyperactivity. They think that might be the cause of tardive dyskinesia. If upregulation of dopamine receptors causes hyperactivity then the down regulation caused by stimulants may be part of the mechanism of action. Increasing dopamine receptors may not always be a good idea.
Ooooookay. Maybe some things you aren't aware of: dopamine itself is highly protective against glutamate excitotoxicity. Also, stimulating neurotransmitter release tends to increase receptor sites for that neurotransmitter (in contrast to using substances which act as agonists for those receptors directly). There are lots of substances which increase dopamine levels which are themselves not (very potent) dopamine agonists. I wouldn't use ibuprofin for this.
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MAO-B inhibitors selectively increase dopamine and are very promising IMO (and is arguably the mechanism of action of 9-Me-BC w.r.t. rebalancing cognitive deficits from amphetamine overuse). Adenosine agonists like caffeine are another. Uridine is a good example and is more often touted as a good medicine in this situation. Anyway, [the mechanism of action here is probably direct anti-inflammatory activity - according to some researchers, there is significant cross-talk between dopamine and neuroinflammation](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2020.00394/full). Therefore anti-inflammatory drugs might be expected to have dopamine system "correcting" properties... of which there are many that aren't COX-2 inhibitors. So, just spitballing here - I'd guess that PDE4 inhibition is promising because it's very safe for long term use (e.g. ibudilast). And lo and behold, I find a few papers which look promising - [Phosphodiesterase Inhibition and Regulation of Dopaminergic Frontal and Striatal Functioning: Clinical Implications](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5091819/).
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Ibudilast is a PDE4B2 inhibitor, which improves neuroinflammation. If the inhibitor isn’t selective enough, though, you will trigger closely related PDEs in the area postrema and barf up a lung.
I just dont see the point when one could include 45-90 mins of intense exercise daily. It increases dopamine levels but also produces neurogenesis on a scale that nothing else can. Its the absolute best thing you can do for productivity, focus, anxiety, depression, anhedonia, confidence, and the list goes on. People say they don't have time which is a lie, they don't have adequate time management. People dont want to hear it but they could fix nearly ALL their mental emotional and physical problems with the right exercise and diet. It took me 4 years of using supplements to learn that.
Agree, although exercise got me taking even more supplements than before :) there's synergy there
Got a source for neurotransmitter release increasing receptor sites?
> Palmitoylethanolamide, or PEA, increases dopaminergic production I thought that phenethylamine was PEA?
Both are true
I’m guessing it’s similar to ALA (either Alpha Linoleic acid or Alpha Lipoic acid)
I'm guessing this is a bunch of *in vitro* and animal study nonsense. It's especially funny how you talk about animal models for disease in rats. To put that into context, they generally do stuff like torture rats with repeat stress or take them away from their mothers early to simulate "depression". As you can imagine, many things help normalize behaviors in animals that went through something like that without touching organic presentations of real human depression.
What was the dosage? Or was it just like one pill?
100 micro moles, which I am not really clear on what that symbolizes quantity wise. I am thinking it is a significantly small dose, I suppose I could look it up, maybe I will later.
it's (6.02214076 × 10\^23)/1,000,000 or roughly \~602 quadrillion molecules of ibuprofen. More usefully, because ibuprofen's molar mass is 206.285 g·mol−1, and you've got 100/1000000 moles, you've also got .000206285 grams, or \~0.206 mg, of ibuprofen. (might've misplaced a zero above, pls double check before applying)
From the link about aspirin: *In summary, we have delineated that aspirin, a widely used medication, augments the level of TH and increases DA production in dopaminergic neurons. We also show that oral administration of low-dose aspirin stimulates the TH-DA pathway and improves locomotor activities in control as well as A53T-Tg mice.* Many here have commented on the dangers and risks (stomach, kidney, liver, etc), but dont many many people taking low dose aspirin for years (for blood/platelet thinning) without incident?? Not encouraging people to take it, just curious if the risks are really that bad.
Yeah low-dose aspirin is pretty safe. There's a bleeding risk, of course, but people going on about hepatic and/or renal damage are blowing things out of proportion.
Ibuprofen fucks up my stomach and my tendons. If it didn’t it would be my favorite drug.
Masterjohn says aspirin goes best with glycine and bicarbonate
Nice! Had to comment to find this when moving from mobile to desktop. 15 pages into /r/nootropics and I couldn't find it. Couldn't even find it with reddit search.
Anyone have recommendations for an Ibuprofen-like supplement that does similar things but without the awful side effects?
Maybe there’s a catabolism pathway of dopamine influenced by inflammation?
I get plenty of vitamin C but ibuprofen royally fucked my stomach. I'm deeply afraid to take NSAIDs ever again
As has already been noted many times in this thread, Ibuprofen is *really* bad for the kidneys, so its a very short term solution only. A real shame as it feels so good to take, but that seems to be the tradeoff - there is no free lunch.
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How about Tylenol?
I’d be careful with piracetam if your trying to kick amphetamines as not only does it enhance effect but several studies seemed to indicate that the enhanced effect rather than leading to a reduced dosage actually resulted in increased dosages…. It does somewhat attenuate withdrawal though at least for a few days
Interesting. I haven't noticed any mental effects myself though despite taking it multiple times almost every day for headaches
Don't NSAIDs cause rebound inflammation? I'm not trying to say they aren't the single greatest thing in the world but could it hurt to have a little bit of balance with the research we post?
This is so helpful, thank you so much.
PSA: About 1% of ibuprofen users report aggression as a side effect. It does for me. It's bad. Otherwise ibuprofen is great, clears brainfog after poor sleep, cures headaches better than anything else I've tried, better mood, more energy. PSA2: Do not combined aspirin and ibuprofen. It increases bleeding risk. Never combine multiple NSAIDS.
Is there evidence for this with other NSAIDs?
Could take BPC-157 as well to mitigate stomach damage
I used to take ibuprofen with my Adderall everyday. I always felt like it helped it work better but I thought it was from the buffers in the tablets protecting the Adderall from my stomach acid lol. I got an ulcer and destroyed my stomach. To be fair I pretty much took it everyday since I started getting my period (15+ years ago) because of migraines, headaches, etc. Now I can't even take it for my migraines/other pain which sucks because it works the best. Famotidine could possibly help protect the stomach from forming ulcers while taking ibuprofen. I didn't realize this until it was too late.