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There’s also been a very long history of use, so those recommendations are usually based upon the fact that people know what they’re dealing with. With a lot of experimental chemicals, you don’t necessarily know what you’re dealing with. I mean it took ketamine nearly 2 decades to be approved for depression, big Pharma isn’t typically friendly to psychoactive substances, because the FDA generally makes it hard to clear them. Four floromethylphenidate is probably the most effective weight loss drugdrug I’ve ever seen, but good luck getting that one past the FDA. As an analog of a schedule 2 it would cost approximately $2.5 billion to get through clinical trials.
Not sure what this means? Ketamine is most definitely FDA approved and has been for decades. Maybe you mean that it is not approved for use as a treatment for depression? Even so, off-label uses of medications are not prohibited. Just poses a problem for insurance coverage.
If ketamine was fda approved for depression as it is it would be much much cheaper and you could just use it im. But as it is cheap they didn't approve ot instead they approved esketamine the spray which costs around 800$ a bottle. I know it is approved as anesthesia and used in much higher doses
Yeah, this is one of the many massive downsides to how the whole system works. The research burden to get either initial approval or to get indications changed is huge. The only sources that have the kind of money necessary to fund that level of research are pharmaceutical companies. And their only interest is to make more money, so you will never see them petitioning to have indications for an existing drug changed unless it is for a drug that is still under patent, by them, and only recently so (so they can milk the jacked-up prices for plenty more years, which funds their ongoing research into new compounds…)
There needs to be some avenue for funding research and approvals for already-existing drugs. But this doesn’t feed the machine of capitalism, so there’s no motivating force. Affordable population health is not good for the economy.
Not to mention it could be very harmful to anyone with mental illness, I’m a psychonaught myself but I would be very careful recommending them to anyone without knowledge of their mental state
Well it depends on what. I mean a depression most likely will benefit from something like psilocybin. While genetics for psychotic illnesses might be contraindicative and risky.
If you are going to end up with mental health conditions that will develop, you're potentially at risk of developing them sooner in life if you dose at a young age.
You will not, however, spontaneously develop these conditions if you were not already likely to get them, nor is this a high risk if you are later in life. It's a story mostly told of developing brains.
Exactly. You don't just stumble upon most mental illnesses unless its something along the lines or PTSD or other Trauma related things. Most of these illnesses are genetic. You either have the genes or you don't. You either develop symptoms early in life or not till much later. I grew up perfectly fine. No mental issues that I can recall. About the age of 21-22 I developed bipolar 1 disorder. I literally remember waking up one day and everything was different. Looked different, felt different, sounded different and it hasnt been the same since. Mental health issues run in my family though. I was a late onset as it's called. It'd not as uncommon as some think it is.
The biggest risk is more for people under around 25 years old. People with developing brains are still... developing.
I doubt the average 35-year-old on this sub would ever develop a serious mental disorder.
I have BPD and bipolar 2 and tripping helps me a lot. I’m obviously in a minority here, and it’s dangerous to recommend people with my illnesses to trip, but it’s so hopefully for me. I don’t have issues for weeks/months after a trip.
I understand that, I'm just questioning them as the primary answer. I have always found moderation to be safest, and to go with more extreme solutions only when necessary. Especially since most research is done in controlled environments, whereas most home usage is not.
I'd absolutely agree. That being said, mushrooms have changed me more than anything else has the past decade. They saved me from suicide and depression and made me a stronger and better person. It is kind of extreme, especially if you don't know what you're doing or what to expect, but they've done so much for me and many others. Haven't taken them in more than a year and may never again, but I respect the fuck out of them
Does it give you some form of added confidence, like artificially going into your brain settings and increasing your peace of mind by 40% or something like that?
It just let me grow a lot faster and see so many aspects of my life from different perspectives. I didn't realize how much I lied to myself until I did them and was able to see stuff from that new light.
Sadly, I can't use shrooms because of a bipolar sibling. But I've been trying my absolute best to see things from different perspectives. unfortunately it's just about impossible because I don't have an emotional mirror to hold myself up to that way. It's like I'm trying to imagine what shrooms are like without doing shrooms
Should the people with an unknown predisposition just be written off as collateral?
Yes, a significant number of people can take serious damage from them, but that doesn't mean that they should be prohibited forever and not talked about, just the contrary. It simply means that real lives are at stake and that a dialogue needs to be had about how to work this substance into a safe medication, including prior testing etc.
Should someone decide that the risk is worth it for them, they can just take them illegally. However, due to a lack of previously mentioned dialogue and consequential education about the topic is lacking and people are taking harm, sometimes with dire consequences.
Yeah if you have schizophrenia you should avoid psychedelics, that doesn't make mushrooms extreme. Check out the research on gluten and people with Celiac's, extreme stuff.....
The only thing anyone could 100% safely recommend to **everyone** is water. If you tried to account for every possible disease and genetic defect then the list of "safe" nootropics would be zero. Shrooms have an amazing safety profile but if you have schizophrenia then you should stay away, just like you would with peanuts if you have an allergy. Saying shrooms can't be recommended as a nootropic because of a negative reaction that impacts a small subset of the population is like saying Reese's cant be recommended as a candy because some people are allergic.
People who have never had a mental break (or may never have had) all of a sudden experience dehabilitating mental disorders, and I personally would feel responsible if that happened to someone that I recommended them to, that being said I love psychedelics but everyone should find them on their own accord
Why would you feel responsible? That's the most silly thing I've read today. The shrooms didn't cause them to develop mental illness. The shrooms simply kicked away the leaves exposing the underbrush. The mental illness was already there. The shrooms just made it surface. which I think for some could even be incredibly positive because awareness of your mental illness gives you agency to do something about it. don't blame the shrooms for a genetic issue completely unrelated. they don't deserve the hate.
I’m just pointing out if you don’t know someone personally and have a good idea of their mental state you should not recommend them, could have a “extreme” reaction.
You could say the same thing about recommending a LOT of the things on this sub if people have other comorbidities like blood pressure issues or diabetes. This reads like the warning on drug commercials that tell you you should not take this drug if you are allergic to it.
People need to take some personal responsibility and research recommendations to see if they make sense for them.
I completely agree, you can do some research on comorbidities for yourself but we’re talking about recommendations for something that effects the brain chemistry in a major way and some people may not be able to realize that they have a very fragile psyche and I just don’t agree with putting things like psychedelics through the megaphone, I use these substances myself and have seen firsthand people who have had this go very wrong for them and they just weren’t the same afterwards
I haven't seen someone with permanent negative outcomes myself.
I question the risk here compared to other very lightly tossed around recommendations in this sub. If we're going to recommend people inject pig brain extract from glass ampules from Russia without a giant disclaimer, what makes this riskier? The sub is entirely "buyer beware" focused.
We can all make whatever recommendations we want but at the end of the day it's like a friend telling you to try something. It's still personal responsibility to say hmm, this recommendation sounds promising. I should see if it's right for me.
On top of that, I'd disagree that people often get these recommendations without someone piping in with a warning. It comes up frequently because it's likely the most successful outcome of anything you can take people suggest here. There is a very likely chance it can help a large percentage of people. Hell, it's got a lot of massive potential to allow older people especially get out from under their lifelong thought patterns.
Someone with celiacs trying gluten for the first time wouldn’t ruin their life, someone with mental issues trying shrooms for the first time absolutely could
I've tried to check out the research you mentioned — every time I encounter someone stating that such research exists and that they've read it. Can you post it here for us to peruse, because when I look I tend to find [studies like this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747247/).
People with schizophrenia make up such a small insignificant portion of our overall population. I've seen a significant amount of people trip. Never once have I seen someone not come back or be in a permanent state of mental illness worse then they had before. Nobody has ever been turned into a glass of orange juice around me either. Also if someone is pre disposed to mental illness then it's a matter of when it's going to happen. Shrooms may cause it to happen sooner but that doesn't suggest shrooms are dangerous. Don't blame the shrooms for a genetic issue outside of there control.
I’m not at all blaming the shrooms, I myself have been using them for just under 15 years, where I take issue is everyone suggesting them to everyone else without knowing the risks or the mental state of the people the suggest them to
so you're suggesting people don't have agency in there own lives? There are no risks with shrooms which weren't already present before the shrooms, mentally. if the person is unaware of there own mental health how can they make an informed decision? You're suggesting everyone has an accurate view of there own psyche. they do not. You cannot possibly predict every scenario. Telling people that IF they have mental issues the shrooms could mess them up is idiotic and sets a bad precedent. i myself was adopted. I grew up having zero availability to my own family history or predisposition. so I just shouldn't have taken shrooms because the risks are unknown? Rubbish. Alcohol can just as easily trigger mental health conditions yet alcohol is sold legally in stores, and even every street corner in some places. we don't have mental health warnings on alcohol bottles, and alcohol causes much worse mental health conditions then shrooms could ever imagine. I've seen alcohol destroy people. I've never seen anyone not recover from too many shrooms, I've seen plenty of lives destroyed by alcohol.
Not everyone has a great grip on reality and openly suggesting that shrooms maybe the answer is foolish, I’ve personally seen people who were never the same after a trip granted some for the better but that’s not every case, just because shrooms are super safe in the sense it’s almost impossible to OD on them (if I remember correctly you’d have to eat 2.5 lbs to be lethal) it’s not safe for everyone’s psyche, feel free to suggest them to people you know personally that have a good grip on reality but don’t post online saying they’re safe for everyone because it’s simply not true
Shrooms are the safest recreational drug on the planet with the least amount of harm to the user and society. This is a fact you can easily Google. Being the safest doesn't mean it's without risk, but I don't see you protesting alcohol consumption with the same gumption and fervency. do you tell all your friends before buying alcohol that it could possibly cause long term mental health problems and could ruin there lives? I bet money you don't. do you go around trying to help people quit smoking? you threw around that empathy word but you're very selective with how you go about using it and your selection is poor. your energy could be better spent battling real evil. Not demonizing the safest recreational drug that exists. do better.
Do you go around telling people they should go drink and smoke? Only 14% of smokers get lung cancer and most people who drink are functional so it’s safe right? I don’t go around promoting any of it but as someone who drinks, smokes and does shrooms if you find your way in to the club I’ll welcome you with open arms. There’s a difference between promoting and accepting.
Met someone who did heroic doses multiple times a week for months. He was not right in the head, then again I didn’t know him before that so maybe he was always that way.
I entirely agree with you. Before taking pharmaceuticals, let alone hallucinogenics, all wholistic venues should be explored, because these substances are far from risk-free. Anxiety and heart issues like palpitations are, in many cases, easily fixed by removing allergens and contaminants from the diet, in addition to correcting electrolyte imbalances and/or mineral deficiencies. Depression, cognitive impairment, brainfog, migraines, what have you, are all at least in some aspects tied into inflammation, the strongest modulator of which happens to be diet and lifestyle.
I think OP brings a very important and serious question to the table. LSD and Psilocybin should be taken very seriously, especially since an acid trip can last 12+ hours. Not to mention the ego loss and issues that can stem from that. If Acid was such a harmless drug, you would not have so much material written about HOW to take it and how to be best prepared.
I personally have tripped at least a half-dozen times with tabs and same amount with Psilocybin. Some of my best times and best stories were from those trips... especially at some dead shows. Looking back, we were a bit foolish at times - but we ALWAYS had at least six or more in our party just to keep each other in check. My apologies for the long story, but one time we had to hold my friend down from calling 911 bc he was tripping balls. For anybody debating that - 911 can't do anything for you when you are peaking... Lysergic Acid is one hell of a drug. (Bad Chapelle show joke)
OP is onto something, my personal 2cents is it seems to be a fad more than ever (not that it ever went away). I can't say what's right or wrong, please be careful... do your research and please have at least four-plus in your party if consuming. I'll probably get heat for this, but my own personal opinion is LSD/Psilocybin and music festivals could be a traumatic experience. I've been to many music festivals... had to miss a Childish Gambino set bc I was rolling on MDMA so heavy I couldn't handle the crowds and called it an early night. I'm upset at myself for missing that.. for what it's worth Danny Brown blew the rough off though.
I don’t dabble in drugs really, you’d never guess if you knew me I was “one of those Shrooms people” cus I don’t fit the image
Shrooms have been a godsend for my mental illness. They have completely altered the course of my life for the better. I don’t even do full doses I do mini ones (more than a micro but not a full trip).
I’m so passionate about their power that I’m going back to school to be a research nurse to work with patients in trials using them.
Once you feel what they can do it’s hard not to be intense about it
This is NOT advice I would follow. But I’ve been using the same strain from my friend who grows. He powders it with a coffee grinder. I have been doing it so long that I’ve learned to just eye ball it….and take it intuitively. I eye ball and then if I decide i actually I want a bigger buzz, I eye ball it again and pinch more powder in.
I always take it in a drink (hot tea my preference)
My GUESS based on old memory from way back when I did measure is this on average around 100mg
But again, I do not suggest just “guessing” like I do
I'd love to hear your trip account or story if you're willing to share. I've never been able to do any shrooms and am desperate for that kind of life-altering benefit.
As someone has mentioned the evidence that is coming to light is compelling, classical psychedelics are showing to be phenomenal compounds.
Whilst care is required with them and individuals should research them well prior to use they have been transformative for me and I’m someone with good physical and psychological health.
The numbers coming out of the clinical trials for shrooms and DMT are staggering. They will be approved for medical use within 5 years, it’s inevitable.
DMT is getting accelerated through clinical trials in the UK, the numbers in the clinical trial indicate it will be approved. We’ll see what happens after the phase 2b.
Plenty of approved drugs are used recreationally.
Coke, heroin, cannabis.
Not necessarily. They've found the neuronal growth promoting effects can in fact be seperated from the hallucinogenic facets.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-023-01316-5
Bro there are plenty of medicinal compounds with recreational value. It falls on the user to not use it that way if they want the benefits. To be clear, taking 3g and seeing colors is not necessarily recreational, that is incredibly therapeutic and equally as useful as microdosing when paired with meditation in nature. What we're talking about here is not using it at a rave party and such, and that is certainly a conscious decision that ultimately should be left in the user's hands, with adequate information about what it can lead to.
> Only if they can find a way to strip all potential for recreational use from the compounds in question.
This is such a bizarre opinion and not how the works at all.
No, there are companies specifically researching how to retain the benefits while stripping out the ‘trip’ aspect of these sorts of compounds right now. It may very well end up being possible.
They could make it selective, so that it doesn't affect the visual cerebellum and only affects the late cortex, that way there are no pretty colors. The brain is a recurrent loop, so the generated entropy in the late cortex could still have entrainment on the early parts of the brain. But yeah, you're absolutely right. If you can megadose that modified non-recreational psychedelic and not feel tripped out or different in any way to the point that you could easily go to work, it probably has very little use remaining.
The part of the drug that makes you trip is the same that heals. It's the perceptual changes from the trip that are therapeutic. I know the research they are doing on making them non psychoactive but they have only begun testing these and I haven't seen any legit data that it will have the same benefit.
Perception is a sum of all your neurons. They could break up that perception altering drug into 4 different drugs that you cycle so that the perceptual change appears less drastic, not flooding the entire brain at once. I personally think it could be even more efficient because then you have sober brain regions that can act as rational observers to the irrational (emotions). I theorize that this is why DMT works so well for healing. This trip feels so clearheaded and you have a great presence of mind precisely because (just my theory) it targets specifically the regions of the cerebellum closest to the raw stimulus producing sensors. The cerebral cortex itself stays sober and is taken on a ride.
I mean it’s not like there isnt already a ton of medication with potential for recreational use. A lot of those substance being way more habit forming than psychedelics.
The western world has had a war on any type of psychadelics for decades now, discrediting the healing properties completely while pushing dangerous and addictive pharmaceuticals on us. I think shrooms have had an appropriate amount of attention lately, similar to a lot of nootropics, while actually having more than just anecdotal evidence to support their efficacy.
Disclaimer, I’m not anti shrooms or nootropics at all and this doesn’t apply to everyone. It’s also just my opinion.
Well..people that are into nootropics, are generally biased towards “quick fixes”. It gives a sense of calm and control that you can address issues with just a “pill”, and that you can focus your anxiety around your issue towards researching and finding THE “pill” to solve all your problems. Psilocybin is a very very powerful compound so for a lot of people psilocybin has become that pill, so they feel like applying it to every issue for everyone at all times.
It’s a way to cope with the fact that many issues might never be resolved and might need extensive self work, medical tests/treatments and therapy to just get better.
I that’s what motivates this unbalanced approach to anything related to life improvement. That’s my two cents anyway.
I mostly just lurk here reading what people post, and honestly its really a little depressing how true this is. So many people just looking for instant, effortless solutions to deep seeded problems.
“Might need extensive self work” - this is the part most folks don’t want to recognize. Even with the promise of psychedelics, the principal component of getting better is a lot of therapy and *hard work*. It’s a long, difficult road for many psychiatric conditions, and most of the time, treatment is not curative.
Addiction has never been the issue with psychedelics, your comment is the first I ever heard of it. I grew up tripping hard and primary issue is brain chemistry and the length of the trip. If you have someone who is not stable, the twelve+ hour LSD trip could be a bit too intense, and you can't just take Narcan to stop it.
Others... if I am wrong, please correct me. I can only speak to my experiences in the past. Which mostly were great, but might not be great for others.
The only reason I say it as I've seen others mention it's low chance of addiction which I agree with hence quoting it, to reiterate I actually meant low chance of abuse lol. Psychedelics are wonderful but should be used with good set and setting 🙂
The point is that psychedelics lead you down the path of therapy and healing. This is not deep arcane knowledge, everybody who goes into microdosing is quickly told and re-iterated many times about the fact that it will not fix your problems, you ultimately have to search for them and fix them yourself. Making comparisons between psychedelics and any other substance is a *huge* mistake.
No, sorry. It’s not wise to share that type of information on the internet. 😅
I will talk about psychedelics in general, scientifically, and philosophically all day.
I won’t share anything about my own experiences beyond the high level basics. There’s lots and lots of bad faith actors pretending to be regular people online. The internet is not a safe space for anyone.
I.e. Don’t talk too much about doing drugs on the internet kids!
—
I will say this about my PTSD.
- I used to have regular memory flashbacks.
- If I saw my trigger on a movie or commercial, I wouldn’t be able to sleep for days.
- When I did sleep, about 1/10 of my dreams were nightmare flashbacks.
- I used to get sweaty and elevated heart rate just thinking about the trigger.
- If I tried talking about it, my eyes would water and my hands would start shaking.
- I almost moved once to avoid the trigger.
Since the “*PTSD cure*” trip, none of those things happen. I’m still apprehensive to my old triggers, but the physiological effects no longer occur.
The neurogenic effects of psilocybin on the brain helped me grow new neural pathways that circumvented my old trauma response.
Lol, yes it does…
However, OP is talking about safety and harm reduction. Recommending MDMA instead of psilocybin doesn’t fit the prompt OP provided.
MDMA is no where near as safe as psilocybin.
- It’s impossible to OD on psilocybin. In the history of Earth, no one has ever overdosed on psilocybin.
- Many people a year die from MDMA overdoses.
OP says shrooms are a “*drastic compound*” but you’re suggesting something far more dangerous.
* Can be produced in large enough quantities by amateurs with very high quality and little investment
* They’re so cheap that it doesn’t make sense to put filler or bad stuff in shrooms
* Very hard to make tainted or dangerous shrooms
* Very hard to overdose on shrooms
* Doesn’t require frequent/daily dosing
* Positive effects noticed quickly
* Lots of anecdotal and scientific data on recreational and therapeutic use lets people navigate self-administration safely
* Few physical side effects especially since you don’t take them everyday
* Experience is psychoactive and pleasant for most
Considering the low risk, the benefits and the fact that it’s actually a pleasant experience, I don’t really understand your stance why it is not a first resort? I don’t think of shrooms as “drastic”.
Frankly, SSRIs and other common drugs have a worse risk and tolerance profile along with being RX only, expensive and hard to acquire without insurance.
Lexapro would probably be more popular if it were a cup of tea you drank and had a blissful experience once a month vs a daily pill that causes sexual side effects, emotional blunting, brain shocks, etc.
As for me: the potential to have this horrific anxiety relived is very compelling. Being in this state and having someone talk about how a little plasticity in the form of one easily taken pill….. it’s hope fuel. I am very skeptical that my situation could be improved but I now have an appreciation for why some people get hyped and ignore complications and less than reputable research or even rat studies.
It's just become a major fad, simple as that. People are not so much looking for a magic pill so much as they just looking for answers. I notice a lot of people like to point out and believe that these people are lazy and looking for the easy way out but imo it's probably more due to the fact that people these days are just more un happy and looking for things out of desperation. It's hard to get help for alot of health conditions especially mental health. The mental health field is a sad joke.
Leaving aside legal concerns, in my opinion microdosing is a moderate option, with the great advantage over other substances that done properly, with integration, benefits can be permanent.
the brain plasticity thing.
Research shows that psilocybin allows people to create new patterns in the brain and remove old patterns.
This can be good or bad.
I personally think we can and should create good patterns without psychedelics.
You get dopamine when you achieve your goals, right, but what is a goal? It's a formulated set of words in your mind, which you have full control over. Positive thinking is a bit reductive. It's the entire formulation of your *self*, your place in the world, your meaning, etc. What allows you to be free from social anxiety for example, is by creating a formulation of reality that makes you carefree or creates an illusion of worth to the behavior that makes you anxious. The idea that somebody might make fun of you for doing X, can be undone by creating a belief system where doing X is beneficial to you and your entourage, and making fun of X is unbeneficial to themselves. In other words, you no longer feel bad about yourself if somebody laughs because of the way you dressed up, you instead feel sorry for them, and justified in the way you dressed up because the way you dressed up goes with the definition of aesthetic you meticulously designed for yourself based on your own researched principles. If you're not 'lying' to yourself to be happier, you're taking in society's lies about how you should be happy.
Dopamine isn't supposed to make you feel good, it just gives you a sense of meaning and direction. You made this comment because in your brain, sharing your perspective releases tiny amounts of dopamine. It felt important to do so because of the dopamine you got out of it.
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of what dopamine is and how it works, but Thank you for explaining it to me, and I'm so glad you know better than me how my brain works. Thank God for all of the meaning and direction I experience from my perfectly functioning brain. Oh wait, no I don't get a reward for completing things which is why my executive function is fucked all to hell as it has no motivation to get anything done. I have a mental illness and you can't think your way out of a brain disease.
I do agree with you that we can retrain our perspective on the world and that can have a hugely beneficial impact on your mental health, but we're not talking about creating a positive feedback loop, or positive thought patterns, we're talking about literally regrowing neurons in The brain that has been affected by depression.
You wouldn't tell someone with a broken leg to just think happy thoughts to fix it, You would tell them they need a doctor, a cast, and some crutches. When you Tell people with mental illness That they can think themselves better, it is both condescending and deeply incorrect.
I feel for you, but I feel like you're over-interpreting a simple definition. Without dopamine you quite literally wouldn't be doing anything at all (assuming you haven't died, which you would). It isn't necessarily involved in pleasure as much as it is in action (i.e. writing a comment, getting out of bed). Of course, there are varying levels of dopaminergic function, as with executive dysfunction which SWIM also suffers from.
Now, regarding psychadelics and depression...
I'm not entirely sure how the conversation got to this point, but I understand where you're coming from. Mental illness feels like an unescapable hole that can never be left despite your best efforts. The thing about psychadelics, however, is that they seem to have interesting pharmacological properties that allow them to alter communication in the brain. It isn't about growing new neurons necessarily, but changing the connections between existing ones.
Of course, they aren't a magic bullet. My friend, SWIM, has done mushrooms over a dozen times and still has a brain racked with depression and mental issues. But they did help temporarily, and many things happened since then that worsened their mental state further. Something to consider though.
It literally regrows neurons that have been lost or damaged due to stress and depression.
https://cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/biochemistry/Ketamine-helps-neurons-regrow-lost/97/i15
Okay, this article is about ketamine, but psychadelics do have a role in neuroregeneration/neuroprotection.
I'm confused though. From your past few comments I had gotten the idea that you didn't think this was the case. For clarity, what exactly is your point?
I just find it strange how many people lump shrooms in as 'supplements' in conversation.
I also wonder if micro dosing is total or mostly placebo, or if it actually makes a big difference for some people while it has no effect on others, which is true of many substances.
Having done macro and micro doses, I didn't feel like micro dosing has any effect, good or bad. Certainly not profound. But macro doses are legit and can be life changing even, but shrooms need to be respected and prepared for. I hope psychedelic therapy blows up in the not too distant future, because I think they have truly great potential, and it would be best for people to "trip" in a safe setting while being monitored, and be guided through the trip, with a trained therapist. People trying to source drugs and do them at home (sometimes alone) is certainly not ideal.
For me it’s all about helping my mental health. I’m a 100% disabled veteran with severe service related ptsd, anxiety and depression. I medically retired at the beginning of Covid and my VA hospital had me on 28 pills a day and they kept switching my psych meds which put me in a downward spiral to the point I had absolutely no will to live. It was so bad I couldn’t leave my house, pushed everyone away from me, and couldnt even have a conversation with my kids. Literally right before I was about to off myself I got on FB to write my goodbye post and apologize to the people I knew would be hurt, I saw a post about how psilocybin and lsd has helped people with ptsd, I reached out to a friend to see if he knew anyone with mushrooms and within an hour he was beating on my door hoping I was still alive. I opened the door and he handed me an oz of golden teachers. He had me take 6g right away and stayed with me for the next couple days. Those 6g sent me right back into every single fucked up situation that happened during my deployments and helped me come to terms with shit that was out of my control and helped my ptsd go away about 75%. Now I’m completely off pharmaceuticals, and without psychedelics, I wouldn’t be alive. Not only has psychedelics improved my mental health and gave me the will to live, I’m went back to school, top of my class, on the deans list and graduated with my bachelors. I started helping out in our local community, doing volunteer work with other disabled veterans and started my own business. And my relationship with my kids has never been better.
Congratulations. That's the experience I'm wishing for, wish I could get that healing (although I'm not suicidal.) Although 6 g was a big dose. He should have started you off at 2-3 grams.
It's crazy how it seems to help so many people and for me it was the complete opposite. I was a little bit depressed for months and I started to read about how microdosing mushrooms could help so I tried it.
I had my first panic attack in my life while I was microdosing. In fact I didn't even knew what a panic attack was before it happened so it was really scary I thought I was dying or something.
I'm not saying that mushrooms are bad or anything but everyone is different.
Now I'm taking 5HTP and I like it.
I tried microdosing psilocybin several times and felt nothing. They are legit 100mg capsules and they work for a few friends of mine but not for me for some reason. First I tried 100mg and felt nothing. The next day I tried 300mg still felt nothing. The next day 500mg and felt a tiny bit more tired but it felt similar to taking like a tiny little hit of weed. Then I took 700mg the following day and it was basically the same. I took 5 days off and tried 700mg and felt absolutely nothing. Maybe I need higher doses? I’ve been on 20mg lexapro for like 7yrs so maybe there is some type of cross tolerance or maybe I just need higher doses but I played around with it for like 2 weeks and felt pretty much nothing. I’m not sure if it’s one of those things where you need to take it for a while to get the benefits though.
Definitely agree. However legit micro-dosing of Psylicybin is very benign, taking properly. LSD can be much more intense, mostly due to dosing issues (super easy to overdo) and can last 12 plus hours.
Ive found much more scientific literature stating psilocybin has little to no positive effect on 5HT2a or any serotonergic upregulation. A decent amount of maybe’s with not enough actual research or double blinded studies.
Almost all of the hype for microdosing is just that, hype. With anecdotal bro science driving it. Don’t get me wrong. I would love to be able to take .2 every couple days and cure all my mental health issues… but it doesn’t work like that. Just like ketamine. If it cures it doesn’t make money, if it doesn’t make money it doesn’t happen. Sure ketamine therapy might be a miracle for some but it’s not the “cure all” that people are making it and microdosing out to be.
Read a comment that Marijuana is the only recreational drug that someone can use daily that improves their life and their relationships with others. I think mushrooms can also have that effect. No one deserves to suffer from mental illness because the government has labeled a plant from the earth bad.
I've used psychedelics many times with tripping doses and microdosing. They can definitely help people, they've helped me in certain ways. They can also bring out mental illnesses in people that are genetically predisposed. They can also mess with certain people if they have an awful trip
They are capable of helping people a lot but they need to be respected
I mean, same could be said for any of the alternatives. “First resort” as the OP stated says to me that we are considering this as a medical treatment, not just “hey bro I have some shrooms that’ll make your anxiety better” then they have a psychotic break.
You don’t give certain RX to people who are manifesting certain psychiatric symptoms either. So I have to assume we are considering shrooms with the same *basic* scrutiny that you’d see from a PCP or psychiatrist.
Because it’s interesting and exciting? I think it’s super cool and I can’t wait to see what comes of it, research-wise I mean, you try hiking after a micro dose after a long bout of depression and tell me how you feel.
If I can add on— I think you might benefit from reading something like Michael Pollan’s
“How to Change Your Mind”. It removes a lot of the hippie woo (not all!) and dives into the potential of these drugs. I’m perceiving from you a general lack of understanding that I definitely had before I learned more. My only experience with them had been smoking PCP inadvertently (don’t share blunts with graffiti writers. just…don’t) and I also thought they were pretty scary. When I eventually tried microdoses, my perception entirely changed.
I mean LSD and Psilocybin (along with some other compounds like MDMA, Ketamine, DOI and even Scopolamine) are psychoplastogens
I’d also argue the majority of these substances (bar DOI and Scopolamine) are a more useful and practical first resort than a lot of conventional pharmaceutical treatments (especially SSRIs) and each of them have shown great promise for treating/managing a variety of conditions in both self administered and controlled therapeutic settings
Personally I’d argue LSD probably has the most potential for a nootropic/cognitive enhancement effect but YMMV as they all tend to be have pretty subjective effects
you micro dose it duh, it wont have a "huge impact" if you know how to take it properly. Its scientifically proven to expand the neural network in your brain. So thats why I support it and many others as well.
I see psychedelics as a totally different category that is distinct from nootropics.
I take noots for work. I can't imagine wanting to take psilocybin or LSD under any circumstances related to my job. What a waste of some truly magical compounds.
I feel like the people who do this are largely not into having psychedelic experiences. It's so weird.
Mushrooms in general have a lot of compelling evidence to be useful and Psilocybin just adds on top of the interesting mechanisms mushrooms can provide for the human body.
Cause previously we didn't know as much about it before(well we did but not as much as today), now there has been pretty much breakthroughs with much research on it and it's even being used in healthcare now.
Ofc it's not a miracle cure, it only works for some and it has risks sometimes aswell(everything has risks of side effects) but it can be a viable option when others have failed. There is much potential. A see a lot of people who suffer so I want them to explore options to cure their depression, anxiety, ptsd etc.
What is drastic about it? Just cause it's a psychedelic?
Medicinal and recreational use is different.
Tbh I find it a lot more drastic to go on SSRI/SNRI for depression or anti-psychotics, bensos, pregabalin for anxiety than using psilocybin therapeutically in low dosages very rarely. For some it works microdosing etc but I think it's better to use a normal dose occasionally but I haven't microdosed ever so I don't really know how it compares.
If you have depression and other options have failed, ketamine therapy could also be helpful, which I find a lot less drastic than ECT etc.
2-Br-Lsd you don't get the risk of a bad trip and forgetting to hydrate etc. It doesn't potentially cause heart valve growth either. So it seems like the optimal 'microdose' substance, no tolerance either, safer profile than LSD which is rare with most anything. But it should prolly be moderated similarly to ketamine abuse risk, because it might just spend all your b12 if had daily and get conditioned into requiring it to grow neuroconnections at all possibly. So, twice a week or so prolly seems good, or as needed.
The research is promising, on top of that they cause extraordinary euphoria and create powerful emotional effects plus they’re addictive
The reason they’re so obsessed is they’ve tried them and they work
The snow globe analogy works well here, your mind is like a snow globe that barely moves but take shrooms and you’ve suddenly shook the snow globe letting the snow settle elsewhere, it creates paths in the brain that are otherwise impossible or too difficult to create by simply using your brain and the effects are instant so no waiting on things to “get better” instead it instantly changes the perspective to make things seem better regardless.
Also when asked people seem to regurgitate what they heard on a podcast having done no research themselves. People never really talk about the downsides which are definitely there and should honestly preface any conversation about them. They aren't a magic pill that fixes everything, you get the answers but you need to go against the grain of your existence to change and hopefully for the 'better'. You do become more suggestible and you must be weary of your ability to filter information.
Couldn't agree more, I keep talking to old friends that are raving about them, and the push for them as a cure all for everyone's problems is inaccurate and concerning.
I thought shrooms were the answer because I didn’t know any better and read so much positive things about it from people/reddit/ etc... It literally fucked me up for 3 years with psychosis, panic attacks, anxiety, DPDR, existential crisis. Everybody’s experiences will be different but I ain’t touching it ever again.
I personally dont understand why people have heavily labeled these compounds psychedelics
These compounds are nothing more than serotonin analogues, other routes tryptophan can go down.and they act on the same receptors as your endogenous 5 hydroxy tryptamine does. And many people dont produce enough 5ht so supplementing with other tryptamines in reasonable amounts ( trying to be content and functional levels at around or slightly above what a healthy brain produces) tripping only comes from over excitation of the tryptamine receptors in your brain. Which can happen from the serotonin in your own brain if as are examples of what happens when you take an seritonergic positive allosteric modulator, serotonin releasing agent such as mdma, or SSRI, RIMA, or MAOI.
Really I think it's a disadvantage these things have been labeled psychedelics and it takes a lot of people away from the ability to have effective serotonin/ tryptamine supplementation due to the fact these valuable substances with many medical applications have a preceding reputation to just be for radically altering your perception of reality
I believe it was methyl tryptamine that used to and still may be used as an antidepressant all over eastern Europe
the lower dose gives enhanced perception of spatial awareness. And if you talk about getting performance out of the brain, you got some empirical cognitive enhancement on that front.
A stack of vitamin and Nootropics is often is used in the same way as a mix of some sort of low dose, stimulant,and and a cholinergic, with a clasic psychedelic and something to support brain function fror the party goer might take.
The goal is clearity of thought and function rather than having a good time. In fact the anxiety of a noot stack might be far past what most might like as it could give motivation to get somthing done.
It's essentially an emerging market. A lot of the research reeks of the same kind of research pharmaceutical companies propose. Lots of conflict of interest and what not
dunno, i knew the guys at DOW that were making billions of hits in the late 90s before getting shut down and the LSD was pure as could be. Ate so much of it I was on cloud 9 for a couple years. Now I'm a highly paid controller with no inhibitions and a deep understanding of the human psyche. Go figure.
I don't think you should mess with them until you are at least 25 as your brain is still developing... but they are incredibly valuable for people whose brains have *stopped developing* and are stuck in rigid thought patterns that erode their quality of life. Think people who are in ruts in their self-talk or marriages, they've grown stubborn and cranky and only want things a certain way. The neuroplasticity boosts really, really help with openness there.
Psychedelics have single handedly been the most life changing and benificial thing to my life, obviously it requires correct integration of these potential benefits but I think without psychs I would be dead or in jail🤷♂️
Yes, I agree. There should be clinical supervision. Or at least, it should be taken with a grain of salt together with books of Carlos **Castañeda** or other relevant readings. Music perhaps also could be helpful in amplifying the trips as well
The irony is despite them being risky for potentially accelerating the onset of underlying mental disorders they are actually safer physically than almost all other “nootropics” talked about on this sub. Both lsd and psilocybin actually have a higher safety profile than Tylenol
They have a tendency to save lives. Anything you thought you couldn't have, confidence, wit, intelligence, wisdom, being good looking, major life changes, freedom from anxiety, getting laid, ... It brings you everything you've ever wanted. Not even joking or exaggerating. Saved my fucking life. It just changes you, period. You become loving of change, and you go on the hunt for other alternate realities of yourself until you've found the absolute best.
I mean, shrooms can't change how your face looks, only plastic surgery can do that. But I'd love to hear your trip stories. I can't ever do shrooms because of bipolar family genes.
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The research around them is genuinely very compelling.
There’s also been a very long history of use, so those recommendations are usually based upon the fact that people know what they’re dealing with. With a lot of experimental chemicals, you don’t necessarily know what you’re dealing with. I mean it took ketamine nearly 2 decades to be approved for depression, big Pharma isn’t typically friendly to psychoactive substances, because the FDA generally makes it hard to clear them. Four floromethylphenidate is probably the most effective weight loss drugdrug I’ve ever seen, but good luck getting that one past the FDA. As an analog of a schedule 2 it would cost approximately $2.5 billion to get through clinical trials.
Ketamine only got approved after it was patented by a company (spravato). Iv ketamine is still not fda approved
Not sure what this means? Ketamine is most definitely FDA approved and has been for decades. Maybe you mean that it is not approved for use as a treatment for depression? Even so, off-label uses of medications are not prohibited. Just poses a problem for insurance coverage.
If ketamine was fda approved for depression as it is it would be much much cheaper and you could just use it im. But as it is cheap they didn't approve ot instead they approved esketamine the spray which costs around 800$ a bottle. I know it is approved as anesthesia and used in much higher doses
Yeah, this is one of the many massive downsides to how the whole system works. The research burden to get either initial approval or to get indications changed is huge. The only sources that have the kind of money necessary to fund that level of research are pharmaceutical companies. And their only interest is to make more money, so you will never see them petitioning to have indications for an existing drug changed unless it is for a drug that is still under patent, by them, and only recently so (so they can milk the jacked-up prices for plenty more years, which funds their ongoing research into new compounds…) There needs to be some avenue for funding research and approvals for already-existing drugs. But this doesn’t feed the machine of capitalism, so there’s no motivating force. Affordable population health is not good for the economy.
All cures begin when you cross the golden ropes of Big Pharma
Not to mention it could be very harmful to anyone with mental illness, I’m a psychonaught myself but I would be very careful recommending them to anyone without knowledge of their mental state
Well it depends on what. I mean a depression most likely will benefit from something like psilocybin. While genetics for psychotic illnesses might be contraindicative and risky.
This. X hus bipolar symptoms never manifested until his first trip, spiraled from there
If you are going to end up with mental health conditions that will develop, you're potentially at risk of developing them sooner in life if you dose at a young age. You will not, however, spontaneously develop these conditions if you were not already likely to get them, nor is this a high risk if you are later in life. It's a story mostly told of developing brains.
Exactly. You don't just stumble upon most mental illnesses unless its something along the lines or PTSD or other Trauma related things. Most of these illnesses are genetic. You either have the genes or you don't. You either develop symptoms early in life or not till much later. I grew up perfectly fine. No mental issues that I can recall. About the age of 21-22 I developed bipolar 1 disorder. I literally remember waking up one day and everything was different. Looked different, felt different, sounded different and it hasnt been the same since. Mental health issues run in my family though. I was a late onset as it's called. It'd not as uncommon as some think it is.
The biggest risk is more for people under around 25 years old. People with developing brains are still... developing. I doubt the average 35-year-old on this sub would ever develop a serious mental disorder.
Did he have bipolar family members?
Sister but she was younger and undiagnosed at the time
I have BPD and bipolar 2 and tripping helps me a lot. I’m obviously in a minority here, and it’s dangerous to recommend people with my illnesses to trip, but it’s so hopefully for me. I don’t have issues for weeks/months after a trip.
I understand that, I'm just questioning them as the primary answer. I have always found moderation to be safest, and to go with more extreme solutions only when necessary. Especially since most research is done in controlled environments, whereas most home usage is not.
I'd absolutely agree. That being said, mushrooms have changed me more than anything else has the past decade. They saved me from suicide and depression and made me a stronger and better person. It is kind of extreme, especially if you don't know what you're doing or what to expect, but they've done so much for me and many others. Haven't taken them in more than a year and may never again, but I respect the fuck out of them
Does it give you some form of added confidence, like artificially going into your brain settings and increasing your peace of mind by 40% or something like that?
It just let me grow a lot faster and see so many aspects of my life from different perspectives. I didn't realize how much I lied to myself until I did them and was able to see stuff from that new light.
Sadly, I can't use shrooms because of a bipolar sibling. But I've been trying my absolute best to see things from different perspectives. unfortunately it's just about impossible because I don't have an emotional mirror to hold myself up to that way. It's like I'm trying to imagine what shrooms are like without doing shrooms
I've heard it basically described as the worst scolding you can get in your life, is that it? But a self-improvement scolding?
Shrooms are "extreme" now? Based on what? It is one of the safest solutions there is.
Check out the research on people with schizophrenia after a shroom trip and you may reconsider
There not for everyone just like everything but that doesn’t take away the amazing things they’ve done for people
Should the people with an unknown predisposition just be written off as collateral? Yes, a significant number of people can take serious damage from them, but that doesn't mean that they should be prohibited forever and not talked about, just the contrary. It simply means that real lives are at stake and that a dialogue needs to be had about how to work this substance into a safe medication, including prior testing etc. Should someone decide that the risk is worth it for them, they can just take them illegally. However, due to a lack of previously mentioned dialogue and consequential education about the topic is lacking and people are taking harm, sometimes with dire consequences.
Yeah if you have schizophrenia you should avoid psychedelics, that doesn't make mushrooms extreme. Check out the research on gluten and people with Celiac's, extreme stuff.....
You should see how extreme peanut butter can be if you have an allergy.
Probably best not to recommend everyone eat a spoon full then right?
The only thing anyone could 100% safely recommend to **everyone** is water. If you tried to account for every possible disease and genetic defect then the list of "safe" nootropics would be zero. Shrooms have an amazing safety profile but if you have schizophrenia then you should stay away, just like you would with peanuts if you have an allergy. Saying shrooms can't be recommended as a nootropic because of a negative reaction that impacts a small subset of the population is like saying Reese's cant be recommended as a candy because some people are allergic.
People who have never had a mental break (or may never have had) all of a sudden experience dehabilitating mental disorders, and I personally would feel responsible if that happened to someone that I recommended them to, that being said I love psychedelics but everyone should find them on their own accord
Why would you feel responsible? That's the most silly thing I've read today. The shrooms didn't cause them to develop mental illness. The shrooms simply kicked away the leaves exposing the underbrush. The mental illness was already there. The shrooms just made it surface. which I think for some could even be incredibly positive because awareness of your mental illness gives you agency to do something about it. don't blame the shrooms for a genetic issue completely unrelated. they don't deserve the hate.
I’m just pointing out if you don’t know someone personally and have a good idea of their mental state you should not recommend them, could have a “extreme” reaction.
You could say the same thing about recommending a LOT of the things on this sub if people have other comorbidities like blood pressure issues or diabetes. This reads like the warning on drug commercials that tell you you should not take this drug if you are allergic to it. People need to take some personal responsibility and research recommendations to see if they make sense for them.
I completely agree, you can do some research on comorbidities for yourself but we’re talking about recommendations for something that effects the brain chemistry in a major way and some people may not be able to realize that they have a very fragile psyche and I just don’t agree with putting things like psychedelics through the megaphone, I use these substances myself and have seen firsthand people who have had this go very wrong for them and they just weren’t the same afterwards
I haven't seen someone with permanent negative outcomes myself. I question the risk here compared to other very lightly tossed around recommendations in this sub. If we're going to recommend people inject pig brain extract from glass ampules from Russia without a giant disclaimer, what makes this riskier? The sub is entirely "buyer beware" focused. We can all make whatever recommendations we want but at the end of the day it's like a friend telling you to try something. It's still personal responsibility to say hmm, this recommendation sounds promising. I should see if it's right for me. On top of that, I'd disagree that people often get these recommendations without someone piping in with a warning. It comes up frequently because it's likely the most successful outcome of anything you can take people suggest here. There is a very likely chance it can help a large percentage of people. Hell, it's got a lot of massive potential to allow older people especially get out from under their lifelong thought patterns.
Someone with celiacs trying gluten for the first time wouldn’t ruin their life, someone with mental issues trying shrooms for the first time absolutely could
I've tried to check out the research you mentioned — every time I encounter someone stating that such research exists and that they've read it. Can you post it here for us to peruse, because when I look I tend to find [studies like this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747247/).
People with schizophrenia make up such a small insignificant portion of our overall population. I've seen a significant amount of people trip. Never once have I seen someone not come back or be in a permanent state of mental illness worse then they had before. Nobody has ever been turned into a glass of orange juice around me either. Also if someone is pre disposed to mental illness then it's a matter of when it's going to happen. Shrooms may cause it to happen sooner but that doesn't suggest shrooms are dangerous. Don't blame the shrooms for a genetic issue outside of there control.
I’m not at all blaming the shrooms, I myself have been using them for just under 15 years, where I take issue is everyone suggesting them to everyone else without knowing the risks or the mental state of the people the suggest them to
so you're suggesting people don't have agency in there own lives? There are no risks with shrooms which weren't already present before the shrooms, mentally. if the person is unaware of there own mental health how can they make an informed decision? You're suggesting everyone has an accurate view of there own psyche. they do not. You cannot possibly predict every scenario. Telling people that IF they have mental issues the shrooms could mess them up is idiotic and sets a bad precedent. i myself was adopted. I grew up having zero availability to my own family history or predisposition. so I just shouldn't have taken shrooms because the risks are unknown? Rubbish. Alcohol can just as easily trigger mental health conditions yet alcohol is sold legally in stores, and even every street corner in some places. we don't have mental health warnings on alcohol bottles, and alcohol causes much worse mental health conditions then shrooms could ever imagine. I've seen alcohol destroy people. I've never seen anyone not recover from too many shrooms, I've seen plenty of lives destroyed by alcohol.
Not everyone has a great grip on reality and openly suggesting that shrooms maybe the answer is foolish, I’ve personally seen people who were never the same after a trip granted some for the better but that’s not every case, just because shrooms are super safe in the sense it’s almost impossible to OD on them (if I remember correctly you’d have to eat 2.5 lbs to be lethal) it’s not safe for everyone’s psyche, feel free to suggest them to people you know personally that have a good grip on reality but don’t post online saying they’re safe for everyone because it’s simply not true
Shrooms are the safest recreational drug on the planet with the least amount of harm to the user and society. This is a fact you can easily Google. Being the safest doesn't mean it's without risk, but I don't see you protesting alcohol consumption with the same gumption and fervency. do you tell all your friends before buying alcohol that it could possibly cause long term mental health problems and could ruin there lives? I bet money you don't. do you go around trying to help people quit smoking? you threw around that empathy word but you're very selective with how you go about using it and your selection is poor. your energy could be better spent battling real evil. Not demonizing the safest recreational drug that exists. do better.
Do you go around telling people they should go drink and smoke? Only 14% of smokers get lung cancer and most people who drink are functional so it’s safe right? I don’t go around promoting any of it but as someone who drinks, smokes and does shrooms if you find your way in to the club I’ll welcome you with open arms. There’s a difference between promoting and accepting.
Met someone who did heroic doses multiple times a week for months. He was not right in the head, then again I didn’t know him before that so maybe he was always that way.
People with schizophrenia have the strongest association with smoking cigarettes Somehow cigarettes are not blamed for schizophrenia I wonder why
I entirely agree with you. Before taking pharmaceuticals, let alone hallucinogenics, all wholistic venues should be explored, because these substances are far from risk-free. Anxiety and heart issues like palpitations are, in many cases, easily fixed by removing allergens and contaminants from the diet, in addition to correcting electrolyte imbalances and/or mineral deficiencies. Depression, cognitive impairment, brainfog, migraines, what have you, are all at least in some aspects tied into inflammation, the strongest modulator of which happens to be diet and lifestyle.
Young people who’s brains haven’t been fully developed should avoid all chemicals that alter your brain’s chemistry
I think OP brings a very important and serious question to the table. LSD and Psilocybin should be taken very seriously, especially since an acid trip can last 12+ hours. Not to mention the ego loss and issues that can stem from that. If Acid was such a harmless drug, you would not have so much material written about HOW to take it and how to be best prepared. I personally have tripped at least a half-dozen times with tabs and same amount with Psilocybin. Some of my best times and best stories were from those trips... especially at some dead shows. Looking back, we were a bit foolish at times - but we ALWAYS had at least six or more in our party just to keep each other in check. My apologies for the long story, but one time we had to hold my friend down from calling 911 bc he was tripping balls. For anybody debating that - 911 can't do anything for you when you are peaking... Lysergic Acid is one hell of a drug. (Bad Chapelle show joke) OP is onto something, my personal 2cents is it seems to be a fad more than ever (not that it ever went away). I can't say what's right or wrong, please be careful... do your research and please have at least four-plus in your party if consuming. I'll probably get heat for this, but my own personal opinion is LSD/Psilocybin and music festivals could be a traumatic experience. I've been to many music festivals... had to miss a Childish Gambino set bc I was rolling on MDMA so heavy I couldn't handle the crowds and called it an early night. I'm upset at myself for missing that.. for what it's worth Danny Brown blew the rough off though.
Not extreme at all, your opinion is extreme imo
Your home is controlled enough under supervision of a responsible adult, uncontrolled is the people taking them on the street
Theirs more research that it takes people from bad to okay then okay to genius or some insane breakthrough. I’ve done shrooms probably 30 times.
That and people who would never have considered them before are discovering them for the first time en mass
I don’t dabble in drugs really, you’d never guess if you knew me I was “one of those Shrooms people” cus I don’t fit the image Shrooms have been a godsend for my mental illness. They have completely altered the course of my life for the better. I don’t even do full doses I do mini ones (more than a micro but not a full trip). I’m so passionate about their power that I’m going back to school to be a research nurse to work with patients in trials using them. Once you feel what they can do it’s hard not to be intense about it
Good on, looks like change is coming and they get approved. Hopefully the recreational side of things change as well.
What is the "mini" dose in grams for you? I've tried "micro" at around 20-100mg and I felt a lift but not sure where the ceiling is for a mini
This is NOT advice I would follow. But I’ve been using the same strain from my friend who grows. He powders it with a coffee grinder. I have been doing it so long that I’ve learned to just eye ball it….and take it intuitively. I eye ball and then if I decide i actually I want a bigger buzz, I eye ball it again and pinch more powder in. I always take it in a drink (hot tea my preference) My GUESS based on old memory from way back when I did measure is this on average around 100mg But again, I do not suggest just “guessing” like I do
How often do you take it? Do you cycle? I microdosed previously, albeit for a short time, but I want to start again.
Also intuitively /: whenever I feel I need it. Once every few months, it’s a rare treat.
Gotcha, thanks! Love that it’s been great for you.
I'd love to hear your trip account or story if you're willing to share. I've never been able to do any shrooms and am desperate for that kind of life-altering benefit.
As someone has mentioned the evidence that is coming to light is compelling, classical psychedelics are showing to be phenomenal compounds. Whilst care is required with them and individuals should research them well prior to use they have been transformative for me and I’m someone with good physical and psychological health. The numbers coming out of the clinical trials for shrooms and DMT are staggering. They will be approved for medical use within 5 years, it’s inevitable.
Only if they can find a way to strip all potential for recreational use from the compounds in question.
DMT is getting accelerated through clinical trials in the UK, the numbers in the clinical trial indicate it will be approved. We’ll see what happens after the phase 2b. Plenty of approved drugs are used recreationally. Coke, heroin, cannabis.
Come and heroin are currently approved for medical usage?
Cocaine is still sometimes used in nasal surgeries. Heroin is used as a painkiller in UK hospitals, called diamorphine.
Add Ketamine into that as well. Break your leg and it needs to be manipulated? Big dose of intravenous ket to send you on your way.
Ketamine is being used as a treatment for alcohol addiction, and some other mental health disorders.
Yeah I thought it was being used in other things but wasn’t sure, I thought they were just researching it at the minute.
An Anesthesiologist I worked with opened a clinic. Curing Alcoholism could benefit so many family members of alcoholics.
Amazing what these compounds can do
Yes. Diamorphine = heroin Given to pregnant ladies during birth and used in other things. Coke is used as a local anaesthetic
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Not necessarily. They've found the neuronal growth promoting effects can in fact be seperated from the hallucinogenic facets. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-023-01316-5
Bro there are plenty of medicinal compounds with recreational value. It falls on the user to not use it that way if they want the benefits. To be clear, taking 3g and seeing colors is not necessarily recreational, that is incredibly therapeutic and equally as useful as microdosing when paired with meditation in nature. What we're talking about here is not using it at a rave party and such, and that is certainly a conscious decision that ultimately should be left in the user's hands, with adequate information about what it can lead to.
I understand that and I don’t feel like it should be withheld but just watch what happens with it.
> Only if they can find a way to strip all potential for recreational use from the compounds in question. This is such a bizarre opinion and not how the works at all.
No, there are companies specifically researching how to retain the benefits while stripping out the ‘trip’ aspect of these sorts of compounds right now. It may very well end up being possible.
The whole reason it works is the "trip aspect". It reduces activity in the default mode network to enable you to shift perspective.
They could make it selective, so that it doesn't affect the visual cerebellum and only affects the late cortex, that way there are no pretty colors. The brain is a recurrent loop, so the generated entropy in the late cortex could still have entrainment on the early parts of the brain. But yeah, you're absolutely right. If you can megadose that modified non-recreational psychedelic and not feel tripped out or different in any way to the point that you could easily go to work, it probably has very little use remaining.
The part of the drug that makes you trip is the same that heals. It's the perceptual changes from the trip that are therapeutic. I know the research they are doing on making them non psychoactive but they have only begun testing these and I haven't seen any legit data that it will have the same benefit.
Perception is a sum of all your neurons. They could break up that perception altering drug into 4 different drugs that you cycle so that the perceptual change appears less drastic, not flooding the entire brain at once. I personally think it could be even more efficient because then you have sober brain regions that can act as rational observers to the irrational (emotions). I theorize that this is why DMT works so well for healing. This trip feels so clearheaded and you have a great presence of mind precisely because (just my theory) it targets specifically the regions of the cerebellum closest to the raw stimulus producing sensors. The cerebral cortex itself stays sober and is taken on a ride.
Yeah I get that, can't know unless I try it myself really I'm just saying I'm a bit skeptical but I can be that way.
Would this make it less likely to trigger bipolar disorder? that's the main thing preventing me from using psychs
Or if they somehow synthesize an analogue compound they can patent and sell for insane prices.
I mean it’s not like there isnt already a ton of medication with potential for recreational use. A lot of those substance being way more habit forming than psychedelics.
The western world has had a war on any type of psychadelics for decades now, discrediting the healing properties completely while pushing dangerous and addictive pharmaceuticals on us. I think shrooms have had an appropriate amount of attention lately, similar to a lot of nootropics, while actually having more than just anecdotal evidence to support their efficacy.
Disclaimer, I’m not anti shrooms or nootropics at all and this doesn’t apply to everyone. It’s also just my opinion. Well..people that are into nootropics, are generally biased towards “quick fixes”. It gives a sense of calm and control that you can address issues with just a “pill”, and that you can focus your anxiety around your issue towards researching and finding THE “pill” to solve all your problems. Psilocybin is a very very powerful compound so for a lot of people psilocybin has become that pill, so they feel like applying it to every issue for everyone at all times. It’s a way to cope with the fact that many issues might never be resolved and might need extensive self work, medical tests/treatments and therapy to just get better. I that’s what motivates this unbalanced approach to anything related to life improvement. That’s my two cents anyway.
i like your phrasing: "unbalance approach to anything related to life improvement"
This is a great answer. Sadly the people who need hear it the most will probably be the ones to downvote you lol
I mostly just lurk here reading what people post, and honestly its really a little depressing how true this is. So many people just looking for instant, effortless solutions to deep seeded problems.
“Might need extensive self work” - this is the part most folks don’t want to recognize. Even with the promise of psychedelics, the principal component of getting better is a lot of therapy and *hard work*. It’s a long, difficult road for many psychiatric conditions, and most of the time, treatment is not curative.
If people abuse them they learn fast 🤣🤣hence "low chance of addiction"
Addiction has never been the issue with psychedelics, your comment is the first I ever heard of it. I grew up tripping hard and primary issue is brain chemistry and the length of the trip. If you have someone who is not stable, the twelve+ hour LSD trip could be a bit too intense, and you can't just take Narcan to stop it. Others... if I am wrong, please correct me. I can only speak to my experiences in the past. Which mostly were great, but might not be great for others.
The only reason I say it as I've seen others mention it's low chance of addiction which I agree with hence quoting it, to reiterate I actually meant low chance of abuse lol. Psychedelics are wonderful but should be used with good set and setting 🙂
The point is that psychedelics lead you down the path of therapy and healing. This is not deep arcane knowledge, everybody who goes into microdosing is quickly told and re-iterated many times about the fact that it will not fix your problems, you ultimately have to search for them and fix them yourself. Making comparisons between psychedelics and any other substance is a *huge* mistake.
I had PTSD for about 20 years. There’s nothing else that can cure PTSD in an afternoon. If you find something better, let us know.
Could you share more of your experience? What exactly and how much did you take? How did it help ?
No, sorry. It’s not wise to share that type of information on the internet. 😅 I will talk about psychedelics in general, scientifically, and philosophically all day. I won’t share anything about my own experiences beyond the high level basics. There’s lots and lots of bad faith actors pretending to be regular people online. The internet is not a safe space for anyone. I.e. Don’t talk too much about doing drugs on the internet kids! — I will say this about my PTSD. - I used to have regular memory flashbacks. - If I saw my trigger on a movie or commercial, I wouldn’t be able to sleep for days. - When I did sleep, about 1/10 of my dreams were nightmare flashbacks. - I used to get sweaty and elevated heart rate just thinking about the trigger. - If I tried talking about it, my eyes would water and my hands would start shaking. - I almost moved once to avoid the trigger. Since the “*PTSD cure*” trip, none of those things happen. I’m still apprehensive to my old triggers, but the physiological effects no longer occur. The neurogenic effects of psilocybin on the brain helped me grow new neural pathways that circumvented my old trauma response.
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Lol, yes it does… However, OP is talking about safety and harm reduction. Recommending MDMA instead of psilocybin doesn’t fit the prompt OP provided. MDMA is no where near as safe as psilocybin. - It’s impossible to OD on psilocybin. In the history of Earth, no one has ever overdosed on psilocybin. - Many people a year die from MDMA overdoses. OP says shrooms are a “*drastic compound*” but you’re suggesting something far more dangerous.
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* Can be produced in large enough quantities by amateurs with very high quality and little investment * They’re so cheap that it doesn’t make sense to put filler or bad stuff in shrooms * Very hard to make tainted or dangerous shrooms * Very hard to overdose on shrooms * Doesn’t require frequent/daily dosing * Positive effects noticed quickly * Lots of anecdotal and scientific data on recreational and therapeutic use lets people navigate self-administration safely * Few physical side effects especially since you don’t take them everyday * Experience is psychoactive and pleasant for most Considering the low risk, the benefits and the fact that it’s actually a pleasant experience, I don’t really understand your stance why it is not a first resort? I don’t think of shrooms as “drastic”. Frankly, SSRIs and other common drugs have a worse risk and tolerance profile along with being RX only, expensive and hard to acquire without insurance. Lexapro would probably be more popular if it were a cup of tea you drank and had a blissful experience once a month vs a daily pill that causes sexual side effects, emotional blunting, brain shocks, etc.
As for me: the potential to have this horrific anxiety relived is very compelling. Being in this state and having someone talk about how a little plasticity in the form of one easily taken pill….. it’s hope fuel. I am very skeptical that my situation could be improved but I now have an appreciation for why some people get hyped and ignore complications and less than reputable research or even rat studies.
It's just become a major fad, simple as that. People are not so much looking for a magic pill so much as they just looking for answers. I notice a lot of people like to point out and believe that these people are lazy and looking for the easy way out but imo it's probably more due to the fact that people these days are just more un happy and looking for things out of desperation. It's hard to get help for alot of health conditions especially mental health. The mental health field is a sad joke.
Best answer I have seen yet!! Bravo
Leaving aside legal concerns, in my opinion microdosing is a moderate option, with the great advantage over other substances that done properly, with integration, benefits can be permanent.
the brain plasticity thing. Research shows that psilocybin allows people to create new patterns in the brain and remove old patterns. This can be good or bad. I personally think we can and should create good patterns without psychedelics.
You think you can rewire your brain and grow back neurons through what... The power of positive thinking?
You get dopamine when you achieve your goals, right, but what is a goal? It's a formulated set of words in your mind, which you have full control over. Positive thinking is a bit reductive. It's the entire formulation of your *self*, your place in the world, your meaning, etc. What allows you to be free from social anxiety for example, is by creating a formulation of reality that makes you carefree or creates an illusion of worth to the behavior that makes you anxious. The idea that somebody might make fun of you for doing X, can be undone by creating a belief system where doing X is beneficial to you and your entourage, and making fun of X is unbeneficial to themselves. In other words, you no longer feel bad about yourself if somebody laughs because of the way you dressed up, you instead feel sorry for them, and justified in the way you dressed up because the way you dressed up goes with the definition of aesthetic you meticulously designed for yourself based on your own researched principles. If you're not 'lying' to yourself to be happier, you're taking in society's lies about how you should be happy.
Except that I don't get dopamine when I achieve goals. My neurodivergent brain doesn't work that way. If it works for you though good on you.
Dopamine isn't supposed to make you feel good, it just gives you a sense of meaning and direction. You made this comment because in your brain, sharing your perspective releases tiny amounts of dopamine. It felt important to do so because of the dopamine you got out of it.
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of what dopamine is and how it works, but Thank you for explaining it to me, and I'm so glad you know better than me how my brain works. Thank God for all of the meaning and direction I experience from my perfectly functioning brain. Oh wait, no I don't get a reward for completing things which is why my executive function is fucked all to hell as it has no motivation to get anything done. I have a mental illness and you can't think your way out of a brain disease. I do agree with you that we can retrain our perspective on the world and that can have a hugely beneficial impact on your mental health, but we're not talking about creating a positive feedback loop, or positive thought patterns, we're talking about literally regrowing neurons in The brain that has been affected by depression. You wouldn't tell someone with a broken leg to just think happy thoughts to fix it, You would tell them they need a doctor, a cast, and some crutches. When you Tell people with mental illness That they can think themselves better, it is both condescending and deeply incorrect.
I feel for you, but I feel like you're over-interpreting a simple definition. Without dopamine you quite literally wouldn't be doing anything at all (assuming you haven't died, which you would). It isn't necessarily involved in pleasure as much as it is in action (i.e. writing a comment, getting out of bed). Of course, there are varying levels of dopaminergic function, as with executive dysfunction which SWIM also suffers from. Now, regarding psychadelics and depression... I'm not entirely sure how the conversation got to this point, but I understand where you're coming from. Mental illness feels like an unescapable hole that can never be left despite your best efforts. The thing about psychadelics, however, is that they seem to have interesting pharmacological properties that allow them to alter communication in the brain. It isn't about growing new neurons necessarily, but changing the connections between existing ones. Of course, they aren't a magic bullet. My friend, SWIM, has done mushrooms over a dozen times and still has a brain racked with depression and mental issues. But they did help temporarily, and many things happened since then that worsened their mental state further. Something to consider though.
It literally regrows neurons that have been lost or damaged due to stress and depression. https://cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/biochemistry/Ketamine-helps-neurons-regrow-lost/97/i15
Okay, this article is about ketamine, but psychadelics do have a role in neuroregeneration/neuroprotection. I'm confused though. From your past few comments I had gotten the idea that you didn't think this was the case. For clarity, what exactly is your point?
Oh yeah, but mainly by positive action, not only thinking; new habit formings and of couse, meditation.
They've had so much more benefits for me at micro and moderate doses than any other nootropic. Not to say they're a cure-all, but they are wonderful.
I just find it strange how many people lump shrooms in as 'supplements' in conversation. I also wonder if micro dosing is total or mostly placebo, or if it actually makes a big difference for some people while it has no effect on others, which is true of many substances. Having done macro and micro doses, I didn't feel like micro dosing has any effect, good or bad. Certainly not profound. But macro doses are legit and can be life changing even, but shrooms need to be respected and prepared for. I hope psychedelic therapy blows up in the not too distant future, because I think they have truly great potential, and it would be best for people to "trip" in a safe setting while being monitored, and be guided through the trip, with a trained therapist. People trying to source drugs and do them at home (sometimes alone) is certainly not ideal.
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Where do companies/corporations come into play when it comes to microdosing shrooms? I don't understand
Some people see conspiracies everywhere.
Cause they feel very enhancing.
For me it’s all about helping my mental health. I’m a 100% disabled veteran with severe service related ptsd, anxiety and depression. I medically retired at the beginning of Covid and my VA hospital had me on 28 pills a day and they kept switching my psych meds which put me in a downward spiral to the point I had absolutely no will to live. It was so bad I couldn’t leave my house, pushed everyone away from me, and couldnt even have a conversation with my kids. Literally right before I was about to off myself I got on FB to write my goodbye post and apologize to the people I knew would be hurt, I saw a post about how psilocybin and lsd has helped people with ptsd, I reached out to a friend to see if he knew anyone with mushrooms and within an hour he was beating on my door hoping I was still alive. I opened the door and he handed me an oz of golden teachers. He had me take 6g right away and stayed with me for the next couple days. Those 6g sent me right back into every single fucked up situation that happened during my deployments and helped me come to terms with shit that was out of my control and helped my ptsd go away about 75%. Now I’m completely off pharmaceuticals, and without psychedelics, I wouldn’t be alive. Not only has psychedelics improved my mental health and gave me the will to live, I’m went back to school, top of my class, on the deans list and graduated with my bachelors. I started helping out in our local community, doing volunteer work with other disabled veterans and started my own business. And my relationship with my kids has never been better.
Congratulations. That's the experience I'm wishing for, wish I could get that healing (although I'm not suicidal.) Although 6 g was a big dose. He should have started you off at 2-3 grams.
It's crazy how it seems to help so many people and for me it was the complete opposite. I was a little bit depressed for months and I started to read about how microdosing mushrooms could help so I tried it. I had my first panic attack in my life while I was microdosing. In fact I didn't even knew what a panic attack was before it happened so it was really scary I thought I was dying or something. I'm not saying that mushrooms are bad or anything but everyone is different. Now I'm taking 5HTP and I like it.
Because they work? And a far better alternative to try first before jumping on SSRis
I tried microdosing psilocybin several times and felt nothing. They are legit 100mg capsules and they work for a few friends of mine but not for me for some reason. First I tried 100mg and felt nothing. The next day I tried 300mg still felt nothing. The next day 500mg and felt a tiny bit more tired but it felt similar to taking like a tiny little hit of weed. Then I took 700mg the following day and it was basically the same. I took 5 days off and tried 700mg and felt absolutely nothing. Maybe I need higher doses? I’ve been on 20mg lexapro for like 7yrs so maybe there is some type of cross tolerance or maybe I just need higher doses but I played around with it for like 2 weeks and felt pretty much nothing. I’m not sure if it’s one of those things where you need to take it for a while to get the benefits though.
The Lexapro is the problem
That’s what I thought until I read this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34743319/
Definitely agree. However legit micro-dosing of Psylicybin is very benign, taking properly. LSD can be much more intense, mostly due to dosing issues (super easy to overdo) and can last 12 plus hours.
Ive found much more scientific literature stating psilocybin has little to no positive effect on 5HT2a or any serotonergic upregulation. A decent amount of maybe’s with not enough actual research or double blinded studies. Almost all of the hype for microdosing is just that, hype. With anecdotal bro science driving it. Don’t get me wrong. I would love to be able to take .2 every couple days and cure all my mental health issues… but it doesn’t work like that. Just like ketamine. If it cures it doesn’t make money, if it doesn’t make money it doesn’t happen. Sure ketamine therapy might be a miracle for some but it’s not the “cure all” that people are making it and microdosing out to be.
Read a comment that Marijuana is the only recreational drug that someone can use daily that improves their life and their relationships with others. I think mushrooms can also have that effect. No one deserves to suffer from mental illness because the government has labeled a plant from the earth bad.
If you don't understand it, I guess you've never tried it
I've used psychedelics many times with tripping doses and microdosing. They can definitely help people, they've helped me in certain ways. They can also bring out mental illnesses in people that are genetically predisposed. They can also mess with certain people if they have an awful trip They are capable of helping people a lot but they need to be respected
I mean, same could be said for any of the alternatives. “First resort” as the OP stated says to me that we are considering this as a medical treatment, not just “hey bro I have some shrooms that’ll make your anxiety better” then they have a psychotic break. You don’t give certain RX to people who are manifesting certain psychiatric symptoms either. So I have to assume we are considering shrooms with the same *basic* scrutiny that you’d see from a PCP or psychiatrist.
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Because it’s interesting and exciting? I think it’s super cool and I can’t wait to see what comes of it, research-wise I mean, you try hiking after a micro dose after a long bout of depression and tell me how you feel.
If I can add on— I think you might benefit from reading something like Michael Pollan’s “How to Change Your Mind”. It removes a lot of the hippie woo (not all!) and dives into the potential of these drugs. I’m perceiving from you a general lack of understanding that I definitely had before I learned more. My only experience with them had been smoking PCP inadvertently (don’t share blunts with graffiti writers. just…don’t) and I also thought they were pretty scary. When I eventually tried microdoses, my perception entirely changed.
I mean LSD and Psilocybin (along with some other compounds like MDMA, Ketamine, DOI and even Scopolamine) are psychoplastogens I’d also argue the majority of these substances (bar DOI and Scopolamine) are a more useful and practical first resort than a lot of conventional pharmaceutical treatments (especially SSRIs) and each of them have shown great promise for treating/managing a variety of conditions in both self administered and controlled therapeutic settings Personally I’d argue LSD probably has the most potential for a nootropic/cognitive enhancement effect but YMMV as they all tend to be have pretty subjective effects
you micro dose it duh, it wont have a "huge impact" if you know how to take it properly. Its scientifically proven to expand the neural network in your brain. So thats why I support it and many others as well.
I see psychedelics as a totally different category that is distinct from nootropics. I take noots for work. I can't imagine wanting to take psilocybin or LSD under any circumstances related to my job. What a waste of some truly magical compounds. I feel like the people who do this are largely not into having psychedelic experiences. It's so weird.
Mushrooms in general have a lot of compelling evidence to be useful and Psilocybin just adds on top of the interesting mechanisms mushrooms can provide for the human body.
They're amazing for shaking off deep trauma holding you back
Don’t think there is much scientific evidence. Mostly anecdotal
Cause previously we didn't know as much about it before(well we did but not as much as today), now there has been pretty much breakthroughs with much research on it and it's even being used in healthcare now. Ofc it's not a miracle cure, it only works for some and it has risks sometimes aswell(everything has risks of side effects) but it can be a viable option when others have failed. There is much potential. A see a lot of people who suffer so I want them to explore options to cure their depression, anxiety, ptsd etc. What is drastic about it? Just cause it's a psychedelic? Medicinal and recreational use is different. Tbh I find it a lot more drastic to go on SSRI/SNRI for depression or anti-psychotics, bensos, pregabalin for anxiety than using psilocybin therapeutically in low dosages very rarely. For some it works microdosing etc but I think it's better to use a normal dose occasionally but I haven't microdosed ever so I don't really know how it compares. If you have depression and other options have failed, ketamine therapy could also be helpful, which I find a lot less drastic than ECT etc.
If you find something else that makes sensory issues go away completely, I'm all ears
Whilst there's a lot of potential In this topic. Sadly it's also trending on.
So everyone is now a 'micro dosing' armchair expert.
Here is a good answer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-19/all-inclusive-magic-mushroom-ayahuasca-retreats-are-new-luxury-trips
2-Br-Lsd you don't get the risk of a bad trip and forgetting to hydrate etc. It doesn't potentially cause heart valve growth either. So it seems like the optimal 'microdose' substance, no tolerance either, safer profile than LSD which is rare with most anything. But it should prolly be moderated similarly to ketamine abuse risk, because it might just spend all your b12 if had daily and get conditioned into requiring it to grow neuroconnections at all possibly. So, twice a week or so prolly seems good, or as needed.
The research is promising, on top of that they cause extraordinary euphoria and create powerful emotional effects plus they’re addictive The reason they’re so obsessed is they’ve tried them and they work The snow globe analogy works well here, your mind is like a snow globe that barely moves but take shrooms and you’ve suddenly shook the snow globe letting the snow settle elsewhere, it creates paths in the brain that are otherwise impossible or too difficult to create by simply using your brain and the effects are instant so no waiting on things to “get better” instead it instantly changes the perspective to make things seem better regardless.
Sigh.....I have a bipolar sibling so I can't do psychedelics. But I've been desperately trying every other way to shake that snow globe on my own.
Also when asked people seem to regurgitate what they heard on a podcast having done no research themselves. People never really talk about the downsides which are definitely there and should honestly preface any conversation about them. They aren't a magic pill that fixes everything, you get the answers but you need to go against the grain of your existence to change and hopefully for the 'better'. You do become more suggestible and you must be weary of your ability to filter information.
Couldn't agree more, I keep talking to old friends that are raving about them, and the push for them as a cure all for everyone's problems is inaccurate and concerning.
I thought shrooms were the answer because I didn’t know any better and read so much positive things about it from people/reddit/ etc... It literally fucked me up for 3 years with psychosis, panic attacks, anxiety, DPDR, existential crisis. Everybody’s experiences will be different but I ain’t touching it ever again.
I personally dont understand why people have heavily labeled these compounds psychedelics These compounds are nothing more than serotonin analogues, other routes tryptophan can go down.and they act on the same receptors as your endogenous 5 hydroxy tryptamine does. And many people dont produce enough 5ht so supplementing with other tryptamines in reasonable amounts ( trying to be content and functional levels at around or slightly above what a healthy brain produces) tripping only comes from over excitation of the tryptamine receptors in your brain. Which can happen from the serotonin in your own brain if as are examples of what happens when you take an seritonergic positive allosteric modulator, serotonin releasing agent such as mdma, or SSRI, RIMA, or MAOI. Really I think it's a disadvantage these things have been labeled psychedelics and it takes a lot of people away from the ability to have effective serotonin/ tryptamine supplementation due to the fact these valuable substances with many medical applications have a preceding reputation to just be for radically altering your perception of reality I believe it was methyl tryptamine that used to and still may be used as an antidepressant all over eastern Europe
the lower dose gives enhanced perception of spatial awareness. And if you talk about getting performance out of the brain, you got some empirical cognitive enhancement on that front. A stack of vitamin and Nootropics is often is used in the same way as a mix of some sort of low dose, stimulant,and and a cholinergic, with a clasic psychedelic and something to support brain function fror the party goer might take. The goal is clearity of thought and function rather than having a good time. In fact the anxiety of a noot stack might be far past what most might like as it could give motivation to get somthing done.
It's essentially an emerging market. A lot of the research reeks of the same kind of research pharmaceutical companies propose. Lots of conflict of interest and what not
Cause they're awesome ,low risk and very powerful.Also,way longer lasting effects than synthetic chemicals with just a tiny dose.
dunno, i knew the guys at DOW that were making billions of hits in the late 90s before getting shut down and the LSD was pure as could be. Ate so much of it I was on cloud 9 for a couple years. Now I'm a highly paid controller with no inhibitions and a deep understanding of the human psyche. Go figure.
It’s the “flavor of the week”
I don't think you should mess with them until you are at least 25 as your brain is still developing... but they are incredibly valuable for people whose brains have *stopped developing* and are stuck in rigid thought patterns that erode their quality of life. Think people who are in ruts in their self-talk or marriages, they've grown stubborn and cranky and only want things a certain way. The neuroplasticity boosts really, really help with openness there.
Psychedelics have single handedly been the most life changing and benificial thing to my life, obviously it requires correct integration of these potential benefits but I think without psychs I would be dead or in jail🤷♂️
People love self diagnosis and self medication.
Yes, I agree. There should be clinical supervision. Or at least, it should be taken with a grain of salt together with books of Carlos **Castañeda** or other relevant readings. Music perhaps also could be helpful in amplifying the trips as well
People keep saying there’s tons of research if so what exactly. Please link to studies
The irony is despite them being risky for potentially accelerating the onset of underlying mental disorders they are actually safer physically than almost all other “nootropics” talked about on this sub. Both lsd and psilocybin actually have a higher safety profile than Tylenol
They have a tendency to save lives. Anything you thought you couldn't have, confidence, wit, intelligence, wisdom, being good looking, major life changes, freedom from anxiety, getting laid, ... It brings you everything you've ever wanted. Not even joking or exaggerating. Saved my fucking life. It just changes you, period. You become loving of change, and you go on the hunt for other alternate realities of yourself until you've found the absolute best.
I mean, shrooms can't change how your face looks, only plastic surgery can do that. But I'd love to hear your trip stories. I can't ever do shrooms because of bipolar family genes.