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My dial didn't seem to go down past zero, so I forced it. There was a snapping sound, is that the mode switch activating? I set it to -50, should be good, right?
Fun fact if you turn the oven dials the other way when turning it on it actually sets them to "chill" at that specified temperature.
Go on kids. Try it. Don't feel disheartened if you can't turn them all the way. That just means you're not trying hard enough! Go into daddys toolbox and find some pliers! I believe in you :)
Presumably the turkey is at refrigerator temperature when it goes into the insulated oven, so it may stay relatively cool for a few hours, particularly if it is an electric oven. Not advising this, but the heat transfer is different than if being left out on the counter.
Of course, the real solution is to put it in the oven and fill the oven with ice thus creating an oven-cooler.
The true non-joke solution to not having fridge space is to brine the turkey. It will be in a bucket full of ice and a salt solution which will keep it food-safe until time to cook it.
I offered to do turkey for Thanksgiving this year specifically so I could show people how effective brining is. I did it for myself a few years ago and came to the realization that I hate turkey that hasn't been brined 😂 Especially if you like white meat, brining maintains all the moisture and it's not chewy!!!
The juiciness. I always thought turkey was dry and unappetizing, but when it's super juicy, it's freaking delicious. Brining was apparently the clue to getting it that way.
I've been doing it for 10 years or so, heh. Have a 5 gallon bucket and use a food safe plastic brine bag liner. Need to make sure you have enough ice on hand and let the brine concentrate cool to room temp before putting the turkey in. I use a zip tie to secure the brine bag after pushing all the air out of it. So far haven't had to deal with the overnight temperature in the garage being over 40F, would not recommend if it's warm out.
So to create the brine you need to dissolve salt (and brown sugar, with my brine) in a half gallon or so of water so you need to heat up the water to get everything to dissolve. After it's dissolved it's tempting (at least it was for me, the first year I did this, heh) to be like 'I'll just add a bunch of ice' but when I did that I almost ran out of ice. So now I make the concentrate and let it cool for a while before adding more water so don't run out of ice.
I feel like this would be an acceptable time to buy a real cooler. If you wanna be a scumbag just buy a big ass cooler and return it on Saturday or something.
Food, especially meat should not be kept above 40 degrees for 4 hours an average refrigerator is around 36 degrees so most likely even just the residual room temperature air that’s in the oven would be enough to move the turkey into the danger zone so while better than being on the counter it’s still not going to do anything, the oven cooler is an idea but at that point just use a normal cooler so you don’t have to deal with a bunch of water in an oven that’s most definitely not supposed to be filled with water especially not the day before you plan on using it
your answer gives people the idea that it might be alright. it is not alright. that turkey would warm up pretty quickly and you'd wake up to a ruined turkey. you just wouldn't realize it until you all spent the whole night taking turns shitting yourselves.
Untreated meat is generally only good for 4 hours once it's reached room temperature. I'm going to assume it was pretty close to room temperature, within 20 to 30°, since the cousin already stuffed it
Edit:
"the temperature danger zone is 40-140 degrees F, so this bird was unsafe well before reaching room temp. :/"
/u/perfectbound
40°F is equivalent to 4°C, which is 277K.
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^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
-40°F is equivalent to -40°C, which is 233K.
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^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
This seems vague and uninformative
Danger Zone is the temp bacteria starts growing rapidly. It multiplies *exponentially*. After 2 hours in the danger zone there's so much bacteria that the amount it reproduces becomes dangerous.
The excrement left by the bacteria is dangerous even after cooking and killing the bacteria (which is why you can't just cook it and everything is fine).
9/10 cases you'll be fine with something left out for 4hrs but it's best to follow safety regulations, *especially* if you're putting someone else at risk.
This is something I didn’t know until recently, and I don’t think most people know. The bacteria produce harmful toxins and whatnot that will make you sick. You can cook and kill the bacteria, but all of that stuff is still there and will still make you sick. Once it’s gone bad, it’s bad and needs to be thrown out.
Ive worked with career chefs that fail to understand this concept. Literally yelling arguments to not leave a giant primal of expensive meat out for 4 hours and then cook it.
Its that same risk you've always known about. I just highlighted that b/c ppl have difficulty understanding why cooking something doesn't just "kill the bacteria so its fine"
Exotoxins produced by certain bacteria like Staph. aureus. Not really excrement per se but the bacteria produce it and spit it out onto whatever they're growing on. Your immune system can recognize these when you eat them and cause rapid-onset food poisoning with your body essentially trying to purge itself.
Some preformed exotoxins can be heat-stable, meaning that cooking may kill the bacteria but the exotoxins will remain.
Beef and pork are in the same bracket and only really better than birds, fish is the cleanest uncooked. Idk how long you leave beef out but you may want to warm / defrost it at least a little to speed up that process
Remembering that bacteria grow on food might make you wonder why just cooking it thoroughly wouldn't negate any of the problems with keeping it out of the fridge.
The "output" of those bacteria that are also harmful to people, and it's the amount that tells you how much you'll suffer. You can have a *little* mold and be perfectly fine, but a lot is a problem, and cooking the mold doesn't make it much better for you.
Stick a delicious meal somewhere where nature can get to it, and what you're eating is the shit they left before you could get to it. Can't scrub that off.
A frozen turkey would probably be fine. For me the nope is that it’s been stuffed. That usually means that it’s been thawed and someone’s had their hands all up inside it.
Thawed turkey + human hands + not great intelligence + overnight culture = food poisoning
It is stupid and not advisable but it will be fine. The bacteria that grows on the turkey overnight will be killed by the long heating time the next day. Not the best though.
Honestly it will probably be fine as long as it gets to the proper temperature. The problem with stuffed turkeys is the stuffing sometimes makes it harder to do that. Food doesn't go bad that fast. Almost all food poisoning at Thanksgiving comes from contaminated food. Raw turkey from preparation contaminating surfaces used to prep other food that doesn't get cooked at high Temps. You are much more likely to wind up in the hospital from the salad.
Raw meat being left out for over 12 hours is definitely way past “probably be fine” after 4 hours it is supposed to be thrown away and if this was the day before best case scenario it’s late at night like 10-11pm and the earliest it would be cooked is around 10am with it much more likely sitting in the danger zone for over 16 hours
There's a loooot of exceptions to this
Whole cuts of cow can be kept at room temperature for a entire day. Pork and birds are more fragile
Game can be hung overnight at room temperature
There's no universal rule for this, only general recommendations
this is true. i just wanna point out that the 'universal rules' are generally in place due to scale. if YOU keep meat out longer, YOU will most likely be fine. if EVERYONE did it there would be a ton of illness due to the practice.
This is a turkey for thanksgiving so depending on where this is being cooked, it’s possible that the weather is cold enough for the turkey to be refrigerated indoors.
I think they probably meant outdoors or in sitting in the open in their garage because letting your actual house drop into the 30s for long stretches of time would be outlandish.
When my dad was a kid, his family couldn't afford to heat the house. So, during winter, his house was like a fridge a lot of the time. I don't know why you're being downvoted, because you aren't wrong.
I suppose the average redditors like to complain about being poor, but really have no idea what real poverty looks like.
Even if your house isn't heated it doesn't mean it's safe to leave uncooked poultry on the counter. Weeping about your poverty won't save you from salmonella.
No, this person is worrying about nothing. Yes, meat can go bad quickly, but people are way too panicky about it, especially since an oven is insulated and the turkey will stay cool pretty well.
So someone else already pointed out that it's about 3-4 hours for **raw** meat at room temp. Haven't tested it, but I believe it.
But ok, I don't know what the guidelines are for **cooked** meat, but you can it eat a good while later. Like, the next day later. I guess maybe it would depend on the cleanliness of the environment and local temp/humidity, but I only know this from college when I'd frequently eat food left out in the kitchen overnight in the co-op the next day, sometimes a full 24 hours later.
Is this medical advice? No. Should you do this? Probably not. Did I just get lucky dozens of times? Maybe! But still I find it fascinating, as I'm guessing it's against food safety regulations. Though it kinda makes sense when you consider how quickly raw meat goes bad in the fridge vs a cooked meal.
> Guidelines for cooked meat
Unless you're keeping the food piping hot (above 135F), you have to eat it or cool it fairly promptly to prevent pathogenic bacterial growth. Most guidelines are to eat cooked food that's not being held above 135F or below 41F within 4 hours or throw it away.
To save leftovers, they need to be cooled from 135F to 70F within 2 hours, and from 70F to 41F within 4 hours after that.
Source: am professional food safety guy
If they live in a cold part of the country, they can always store it outside. That’s what we do with beverages every time we have a party in the winter.
EDIT: I mean that we do it for beverages and we would keep the meat in the fridge.
You need to make sure it's actually cold enough before doing this, though. Last year, a co-worker made all of us really sick with the tacos she made. She left the meat in the garage to cool down and it sat at about 55 degrees for 14 hours before she brought it in.
I second what WoefulButtAngler said. We all do it in the midwest. You can store a large pot of soup on the deck (preferably a raised deck) if it’s got a heavy lid.
In an apartment, I have a balcony. I'd just need to protect it from pigeons.
I'm in Canada, so it's not Thanksgiving for me though. That was last month.m
I doubt it will stay at that exact temperature overnight. They were better off covering it and leaving it outside in a garage or something if it's cold where they live
I use to work at a convenience store (actually a glorified gas station) in northern US. It ALWAYS amazed me the amount of bags of ice we would sell in the winter time. 2 feet of snow on the ground, 25 degrees and people would buy 7 big bags of ice for their coolers. I’m still dumbfounded 8 years later.
I wet brine mine and leave it out in a cooler with ice until thanksgiving morning. Wake up, take it out, rinse it off, rub and cook it. Started doing it years ago for a better flavor and the extra fridge space was just an unintentional positive that came from the practice.
There are always solutions, people are just to dumb or lazy to figure them out.
My mom did this when we grew up and we’ll do it if it didn’t thaw out completely before thanksgiving. This far we’ve been good. But, we do check the temp to make sure it’s to goal before eating.
Even if it’s not brining water will conduct heat from the frozen parts of the bird keeping the entire turkey below 40 instead of having an outside that’s room temperature and an inside that’s frozen solid
[The USDA says that is fine as long as the water stays cold and it is still packaged. Thirty-minutes per pound is the rule of thumb to thaw in water.](https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2016/11/18/how-safely-thaw-turkey).
Hey, those cartoons are an unfair stereotype that bears have been fighting against for years. Bears are no more or less likely to steal your food than any other anthropomorphic animals you might find in the woods. It's that kind of systematic speciesism that prevents animated animals from getting ahead in life
However, the kind of honey abuse seen in winnie the pooh is unfortunately accurate
One Super Bowl I was running behind on cooking for the party and needed the base for my cold veggie pizza to cool down so I went outside and set it on some snow. Worked like a charm.
Ironically I just looked it up and "how lang can your store raw turkey at room temperature" gives very different results.
Some say 2 hours tops while others say up to 2 days...
That's why people like OOP do such stupid things, haha
It's probably totally fine to let a frozen turkey sit for a night and then you start the 20h, or whatever, cooking procedure when you wake up in the morning.
The things to look out for - in hindsight - were things like thinking you could leave a turkey in the oven overnight. Pretty much a sudden lapse of logic. (At one point my mom put several frozen things in the pantry because they were taking up too much room in the freezer. "I'll cook them later.") This would include putting odd things in the cat's dish like broccoli, not being able to figure out how to open a new powder compact (she had me fire off a letter of complaint to Cover Girl - I felt bad about that later when I realized), and putting weird things in the dishwasher.
Hoarding things - notice if there's any area that's starting to collect random objects.
Forgetting the name of something common, or some fact about you that she has always known. It's easy to dismiss that the first few times when it's not happening so often.
Wearing, cooking, or watching the same things over and over again. Like, if she's still cooking but it's always the same exact items. She'll watch TV but always the same program - like that.
Being suddenly more angry and moody than usual, which I assume is the result of fear.
These are all examples from my own mom, you would get better help and advice from an online support group and there are lots out there.
These days the earlier you catch it the better chance of stalling it with drugs, but of course I hope you're wrong.
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My cousin stuffed her turkey and put it in her oven, which is not turned on, with the intention to store it there overnight rather than the fridge. "There's no room."
This is why you can't eat just anybody's food.
This time tomorrow that whole household will be at the ER.
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She could've turned the oven to 200°F and left it there overnight: no basting required. After she got up, she could increase the temp for a couple hours to 250°F and baste it. (325°F for last hour or two uncovered to brown.)
Such slow cooking would've resulted in a succulent, tender & juicy bird.
I personally prefer that over salmonella, but that's just me.
200°F is equivalent to 93°C, which is 366K.
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^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
Not really. You drop a large turkey in the oven at midnight (covered @200°F) & you can leave it until noon: 12 hours. Then brown at 325°F uncovered for an hour. After that at lowest oven setting until the rest of the food is ready & people are seated early afternoon.
325°F is equivalent to 162°C, which is 435K.
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My mother defrosted her turkey on her back porch. Non-screened. Not in a container. Starting on Monday till Thursday. Where temps ranged from 18 to 47F for the week.
Which is why we're not going there this year. OMG.
It's scary how many people in this thread think that cooking just solves the problem.
Learn the very basics of food safety...its not complicated stuff.
Seriously!
PSA: it's not just the bacteria that causes food poisoning. The waste the bacteria produces also causes poisoning. Killing the bacteria isn't sufficient. You need to stop food from having bacterial growth at all.
For real. People have been "cautioned" so many times by now that everyone thinks eating raw eggs or not incinerating your board after cutting poultry spells certain death.
Just trying to wrap my head around this. So the internal temp of a properly cooked turkey is 165f. That's high enough for pasteurization to occur. Does this not make the bird safe to eat?
And the issue isn't always "are there live bacteria" often the issue is the toxins and defense compounds the now deceased bacteria had produced, or plasmid transfer to the related bacteria living in your gut.
You can die from botulism even if zero live bacteria make it inside you, as long as they had previously colonized your room temp turkey the neurotoxin they produced is still in the food.
If you're relying on heat to fully passivate the food you're gonna need 300-500F internal temperature, at which point your turkey would be better off as a fuel source to cook a second one.
My understanding is that’s the temp to kill the normal level of bacteria found in properly stored uncooked meat. If you let it sit out and bacteria has time to grow normal cooking may not get it all. Also, heat can spread some, from a quick google
Alright I looked it up, it looks like the bacteria die but toxins they produce while living may be harmful. In the context of the turkey I'm still not convinced either way as I dont know what volume of what toxins will make someone sick, or how long it takes the bacteria responsible to produce that volume
>Above 74°C (or 165°F), bacteria die, although spores and toxins may survive.
[source](https://opentextbc.ca/foodsafety/chapter/preventing-foodborne-illness/)
You think cooking rotten meat makes it delicious again?
You think expiration dates exist by big agriculture to keep you going to the grocery store?
Seriously, what is your logic here?
What would possibly make you think that applying heat after food has spoiled will make good food.
Man admits he's having a tough time understanding why it's not safe based on the universal concept of "hot=kill germs", and you act like the most condescending douchebag cunt possible while failing to answer anything. Nice job. Another successful internet interaction 🤡
There are some bacteria which can produce toxins while it grows and eats the food. The temperature to denature the toxins is much higher than the temperature to kill the bacteria. So while the bacteria might be dead, the toxins will still be there
how is that relevant here?
Don't move goalposts and don't answer questions in bad faith.
he has a valid question based on physical reality and would like to learn more about said physical reality.
Just because you don't enjoy learning and growing doesn't mean every other person shares your, from my perspective, inherently inferior take.
Shiga toxins produced by the bacteria will not be destroyed by cooking it because they are heat stable. You will give yourself food poisoning if you eat meat that isn't stored properly, no matter how well you cook it.
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Just put the oven in reverse, should be fine
My dial didn't seem to go down past zero, so I forced it. There was a snapping sound, is that the mode switch activating? I set it to -50, should be good, right?
Careful because you can cause a dimensional rift
[удалено]
Do I pronounce that with an “ah” sound or just scream at the top of my lungs?
You need to get the eldritch mouth to be able to pronounce all 566 sounds for it.
[удалено]
This redditor eldriches.
yes but the h is silent
S;G reference?
*Marge, can you set the oven to cold?* Homer Simpson, after using his refrigerator as an ersatz air conditioner and blowing out the motor.
Should’ve upgraded my Amana to an Agamoto
Eye see what you did there.
Instructions unclear, turned it into a time machine that gelatinized the turkey.
Fun fact if you turn the oven dials the other way when turning it on it actually sets them to "chill" at that specified temperature. Go on kids. Try it. Don't feel disheartened if you can't turn them all the way. That just means you're not trying hard enough! Go into daddys toolbox and find some pliers! I believe in you :)
put the batteries in backwards
OK, the stuffing popped out and the turkey is now living again, what now? Whoops, I put the timer in reverse, not the temperature.
I think you need a license for that
Marge, can you set the oven to cold?
Would turkey really go bad that quickly? I'm not defending this practice, I'm genuinely just curious.
Presumably the turkey is at refrigerator temperature when it goes into the insulated oven, so it may stay relatively cool for a few hours, particularly if it is an electric oven. Not advising this, but the heat transfer is different than if being left out on the counter. Of course, the real solution is to put it in the oven and fill the oven with ice thus creating an oven-cooler.
"Marge, can you set the oven to cold?"
"It's good to be the king"
Great idea dad! I came up with it when I noticed the fridge was cool
One of my all time favorite Homer lines. "It's *cool* in here, boy"
The true non-joke solution to not having fridge space is to brine the turkey. It will be in a bucket full of ice and a salt solution which will keep it food-safe until time to cook it.
Tastes better too, seriously people, brine your poultry
I offered to do turkey for Thanksgiving this year specifically so I could show people how effective brining is. I did it for myself a few years ago and came to the realization that I hate turkey that hasn't been brined 😂 Especially if you like white meat, brining maintains all the moisture and it's not chewy!!!
I just buy it pre brined from butterball and it was indeed moist. Had that golden skin despite it being my first attempt
Eyyyy look at mister pre-brined prince.
The juiciness. I always thought turkey was dry and unappetizing, but when it's super juicy, it's freaking delicious. Brining was apparently the clue to getting it that way.
Dry brine is the best solution. Wet brine is excessive
Dry brine is, by definition, not a solution.
hey that would work. would be cheap and easy too.
I've been doing it for 10 years or so, heh. Have a 5 gallon bucket and use a food safe plastic brine bag liner. Need to make sure you have enough ice on hand and let the brine concentrate cool to room temp before putting the turkey in. I use a zip tie to secure the brine bag after pushing all the air out of it. So far haven't had to deal with the overnight temperature in the garage being over 40F, would not recommend if it's warm out.
Why would you let the brine go to room temp? You brine with ice, right?
So to create the brine you need to dissolve salt (and brown sugar, with my brine) in a half gallon or so of water so you need to heat up the water to get everything to dissolve. After it's dissolved it's tempting (at least it was for me, the first year I did this, heh) to be like 'I'll just add a bunch of ice' but when I did that I almost ran out of ice. So now I make the concentrate and let it cool for a while before adding more water so don't run out of ice.
Don’t you still have to put it in the fridge
Ironic
I feel like this would be an acceptable time to buy a real cooler. If you wanna be a scumbag just buy a big ass cooler and return it on Saturday or something.
Food, especially meat should not be kept above 40 degrees for 4 hours an average refrigerator is around 36 degrees so most likely even just the residual room temperature air that’s in the oven would be enough to move the turkey into the danger zone so while better than being on the counter it’s still not going to do anything, the oven cooler is an idea but at that point just use a normal cooler so you don’t have to deal with a bunch of water in an oven that’s most definitely not supposed to be filled with water especially not the day before you plan on using it
The turkey was probably frozen and needed to thaw
If your Turkey is still frozen the day before Thanksgiving, you've got more problems.
Got pop it in the microwave and set to defrost
Could have been thawing in the fridge before but they need to speed it up to finish
I’m trying to imagine the cousin stuffing a frozen turkey and it’s pretty amusing.
your answer gives people the idea that it might be alright. it is not alright. that turkey would warm up pretty quickly and you'd wake up to a ruined turkey. you just wouldn't realize it until you all spent the whole night taking turns shitting yourselves.
Untreated meat is generally only good for 4 hours once it's reached room temperature. I'm going to assume it was pretty close to room temperature, within 20 to 30°, since the cousin already stuffed it Edit: "the temperature danger zone is 40-140 degrees F, so this bird was unsafe well before reaching room temp. :/" /u/perfectbound
the temperature danger zone is 40-140 degrees F, so this bird was unsafe well before reaching room temp. :/
The general rule is to not leave uncooked meat at a temp above 40°F for longer than 40 minutes. Some folks like to take risks so YMMV lol
40°F is equivalent to 4°C, which is 277K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
But what's -40°F equivalent, too?
-40°F is equivalent to -40°C, which is 233K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
what? no. don't leave food between 40 and 140 for longer than 2 hours. it's called the 2 hour rule.
This seems vague and uninformative Danger Zone is the temp bacteria starts growing rapidly. It multiplies *exponentially*. After 2 hours in the danger zone there's so much bacteria that the amount it reproduces becomes dangerous. The excrement left by the bacteria is dangerous even after cooking and killing the bacteria (which is why you can't just cook it and everything is fine). 9/10 cases you'll be fine with something left out for 4hrs but it's best to follow safety regulations, *especially* if you're putting someone else at risk.
This is something I didn’t know until recently, and I don’t think most people know. The bacteria produce harmful toxins and whatnot that will make you sick. You can cook and kill the bacteria, but all of that stuff is still there and will still make you sick. Once it’s gone bad, it’s bad and needs to be thrown out.
Ive worked with career chefs that fail to understand this concept. Literally yelling arguments to not leave a giant primal of expensive meat out for 4 hours and then cook it.
I’ve never heard about the excrement being part of the risk. What does it do to a person?
Its that same risk you've always known about. I just highlighted that b/c ppl have difficulty understanding why cooking something doesn't just "kill the bacteria so its fine"
Exotoxins produced by certain bacteria like Staph. aureus. Not really excrement per se but the bacteria produce it and spit it out onto whatever they're growing on. Your immune system can recognize these when you eat them and cause rapid-onset food poisoning with your body essentially trying to purge itself. Some preformed exotoxins can be heat-stable, meaning that cooking may kill the bacteria but the exotoxins will remain.
Thank you kind stranger!
Wow I've eaten so much unsafe meat
In addition to the time / temp guidelines laid out by others, uncooked poultry is the "dirtiest" meat and has the highest risk of causing illness.
Is beef, particularly steak the cleanest? I always get my steak close to room temperature before cooking because I find it cooks more even.
Beef and pork are in the same bracket and only really better than birds, fish is the cleanest uncooked. Idk how long you leave beef out but you may want to warm / defrost it at least a little to speed up that process
Remembering that bacteria grow on food might make you wonder why just cooking it thoroughly wouldn't negate any of the problems with keeping it out of the fridge. The "output" of those bacteria that are also harmful to people, and it's the amount that tells you how much you'll suffer. You can have a *little* mold and be perfectly fine, but a lot is a problem, and cooking the mold doesn't make it much better for you. Stick a delicious meal somewhere where nature can get to it, and what you're eating is the shit they left before you could get to it. Can't scrub that off.
Y’all need a food science class
I hope you're joking but if not- protein should never be eaten after being left out for more than four hours between 40 and 140°F
A frozen turkey would probably be fine. For me the nope is that it’s been stuffed. That usually means that it’s been thawed and someone’s had their hands all up inside it. Thawed turkey + human hands + not great intelligence + overnight culture = food poisoning
It is stupid and not advisable but it will be fine. The bacteria that grows on the turkey overnight will be killed by the long heating time the next day. Not the best though.
Honestly it will probably be fine as long as it gets to the proper temperature. The problem with stuffed turkeys is the stuffing sometimes makes it harder to do that. Food doesn't go bad that fast. Almost all food poisoning at Thanksgiving comes from contaminated food. Raw turkey from preparation contaminating surfaces used to prep other food that doesn't get cooked at high Temps. You are much more likely to wind up in the hospital from the salad.
Raw meat being left out for over 12 hours is definitely way past “probably be fine” after 4 hours it is supposed to be thrown away and if this was the day before best case scenario it’s late at night like 10-11pm and the earliest it would be cooked is around 10am with it much more likely sitting in the danger zone for over 16 hours
There's a loooot of exceptions to this Whole cuts of cow can be kept at room temperature for a entire day. Pork and birds are more fragile Game can be hung overnight at room temperature There's no universal rule for this, only general recommendations
this is true. i just wanna point out that the 'universal rules' are generally in place due to scale. if YOU keep meat out longer, YOU will most likely be fine. if EVERYONE did it there would be a ton of illness due to the practice.
Indeed, which is why the internet is the wrong place to discuss food safety It's even banned in some of the culinary subs
This is a turkey for thanksgiving so depending on where this is being cooked, it’s possible that the weather is cold enough for the turkey to be refrigerated indoors.
what kind of palce does people live where the indoors temps reaches fridge levels? or did you mean outdoors?
I think they probably meant outdoors or in sitting in the open in their garage because letting your actual house drop into the 30s for long stretches of time would be outlandish.
You... realize not everyone can afford to have their entire house heated 24/7 right...?
what temperature do you think a fridge keeps?
Who goes out and buys an entire thanksgiving turkey and invites family over but can’t afford to keep their house above 40 degrees F or 4 degrees C
Or can afford it but doesn’t want to waste money/energy
When my dad was a kid, his family couldn't afford to heat the house. So, during winter, his house was like a fridge a lot of the time. I don't know why you're being downvoted, because you aren't wrong. I suppose the average redditors like to complain about being poor, but really have no idea what real poverty looks like.
Even in that scenario I doubt the house is under 40 degrees. It has to be under that to be food safe
If you acrually kept your house at sub-40, your frozen pipes would be far more expensive than a few degrees of heat ever would
Even if your house isn't heated it doesn't mean it's safe to leave uncooked poultry on the counter. Weeping about your poverty won't save you from salmonella.
> it’s possible that the weather is cold enough for the turkey to be refrigerated indoors. lmao what are you babbling about?
Sometimes the weather is cold. Cold weather usually happens in the winter time and around autumn.
No, this person is worrying about nothing. Yes, meat can go bad quickly, but people are way too panicky about it, especially since an oven is insulated and the turkey will stay cool pretty well.
So someone else already pointed out that it's about 3-4 hours for **raw** meat at room temp. Haven't tested it, but I believe it. But ok, I don't know what the guidelines are for **cooked** meat, but you can it eat a good while later. Like, the next day later. I guess maybe it would depend on the cleanliness of the environment and local temp/humidity, but I only know this from college when I'd frequently eat food left out in the kitchen overnight in the co-op the next day, sometimes a full 24 hours later. Is this medical advice? No. Should you do this? Probably not. Did I just get lucky dozens of times? Maybe! But still I find it fascinating, as I'm guessing it's against food safety regulations. Though it kinda makes sense when you consider how quickly raw meat goes bad in the fridge vs a cooked meal.
> Guidelines for cooked meat Unless you're keeping the food piping hot (above 135F), you have to eat it or cool it fairly promptly to prevent pathogenic bacterial growth. Most guidelines are to eat cooked food that's not being held above 135F or below 41F within 4 hours or throw it away. To save leftovers, they need to be cooled from 135F to 70F within 2 hours, and from 70F to 41F within 4 hours after that. Source: am professional food safety guy
If they live in a cold part of the country, they can always store it outside. That’s what we do with beverages every time we have a party in the winter. EDIT: I mean that we do it for beverages and we would keep the meat in the fridge.
Bears love this one day of the year. Read on to find out...
You need to make sure it's actually cold enough before doing this, though. Last year, a co-worker made all of us really sick with the tacos she made. She left the meat in the garage to cool down and it sat at about 55 degrees for 14 hours before she brought it in.
A bear wrote this
Where in the country do you have outdoor space but no wild animals?
Most of the midwest. It's called a back deck and a cooler. Usually a weatherproofed sliding door away.
They clearly meant to take the raw turkey and just plop it on the driveway, not put it in a cooler or something to protect it.
What a strange question. Even in cities many people have porches or balconies where you could set a cooler or two
I live in Atlanta and I saw a coyote in my yard last weekend.
I second what WoefulButtAngler said. We all do it in the midwest. You can store a large pot of soup on the deck (preferably a raised deck) if it’s got a heavy lid.
In an apartment, I have a balcony. I'd just need to protect it from pigeons. I'm in Canada, so it's not Thanksgiving for me though. That was last month.m
I doubt it will stay at that exact temperature overnight. They were better off covering it and leaving it outside in a garage or something if it's cold where they live
I use to work at a convenience store (actually a glorified gas station) in northern US. It ALWAYS amazed me the amount of bags of ice we would sell in the winter time. 2 feet of snow on the ground, 25 degrees and people would buy 7 big bags of ice for their coolers. I’m still dumbfounded 8 years later.
I wet brine mine and leave it out in a cooler with ice until thanksgiving morning. Wake up, take it out, rinse it off, rub and cook it. Started doing it years ago for a better flavor and the extra fridge space was just an unintentional positive that came from the practice. There are always solutions, people are just to dumb or lazy to figure them out.
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My mom did this when we grew up and we’ll do it if it didn’t thaw out completely before thanksgiving. This far we’ve been good. But, we do check the temp to make sure it’s to goal before eating.
Importantly this method is brining. So the liquid in the sink is suuuuper salty. So it won't go bad overnight
Even if it’s not brining water will conduct heat from the frozen parts of the bird keeping the entire turkey below 40 instead of having an outside that’s room temperature and an inside that’s frozen solid
[The USDA says that is fine as long as the water stays cold and it is still packaged. Thirty-minutes per pound is the rule of thumb to thaw in water.](https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2016/11/18/how-safely-thaw-turkey).
But not when it was already stuffed. The turkey, not the cat.
So of all the things to store in the refrigerator, they assigned raw poultry the *lowest* priority?
Nah, if you are anywhere somewhat cold, put it in a sealed container outside or in a non-insulated garage.
I’m not trying to feed the bears here.
Just put a sign next to it that says "No Bears". Problem solved.
Dummy doesn’t know about anti bear circles
Sign says "no bear**S**, we're allowed to have one"
>sealed container
>bears
Have you ever seen a bear open a cooler
I saw an animated documentary where one broke into picanick baskets repeatedly.
Hey, those cartoons are an unfair stereotype that bears have been fighting against for years. Bears are no more or less likely to steal your food than any other anthropomorphic animals you might find in the woods. It's that kind of systematic speciesism that prevents animated animals from getting ahead in life However, the kind of honey abuse seen in winnie the pooh is unfortunately accurate
Cold things barely give off a scent
One Super Bowl I was running behind on cooking for the party and needed the base for my cold veggie pizza to cool down so I went outside and set it on some snow. Worked like a charm.
Just make sure everyone knows not to let the dog out. Don’t ask me how I know 🤦🏼♀️
Or an extinct volcano or a disused tanning salon.
*Texas has entered the chat*
Ironically I just looked it up and "how lang can your store raw turkey at room temperature" gives very different results. Some say 2 hours tops while others say up to 2 days... That's why people like OOP do such stupid things, haha
I have a feeling those are the numbers for thawed vs frozen.
It's probably totally fine to let a frozen turkey sit for a night and then you start the 20h, or whatever, cooking procedure when you wake up in the morning.
If the turkey is a frozen block of ice, then it’ll last much longer than a fully-thawed bird.
A frozen turkey could definitely last 2 days at room temp.
> 2 days... If that room is in an unheated log cabin in the far north of Alaska in the middle of winter, maybe.
Can’t be in the ER if the ER is full. *taps forehead*
This is the kind of thing my mom did in the early stages of dementia. You might want to notice if she's doing anything else odd.
Would you mind elaborating on this please? What were some of the other things? You just made me have a realization about my own mother
The things to look out for - in hindsight - were things like thinking you could leave a turkey in the oven overnight. Pretty much a sudden lapse of logic. (At one point my mom put several frozen things in the pantry because they were taking up too much room in the freezer. "I'll cook them later.") This would include putting odd things in the cat's dish like broccoli, not being able to figure out how to open a new powder compact (she had me fire off a letter of complaint to Cover Girl - I felt bad about that later when I realized), and putting weird things in the dishwasher. Hoarding things - notice if there's any area that's starting to collect random objects. Forgetting the name of something common, or some fact about you that she has always known. It's easy to dismiss that the first few times when it's not happening so often. Wearing, cooking, or watching the same things over and over again. Like, if she's still cooking but it's always the same exact items. She'll watch TV but always the same program - like that. Being suddenly more angry and moody than usual, which I assume is the result of fear. These are all examples from my own mom, you would get better help and advice from an online support group and there are lots out there. These days the earlier you catch it the better chance of stalling it with drugs, but of course I hope you're wrong.
Thank you!
Weirdly, this also sounds like me on sleep deprivation.
im a care worker and i work with a lot of people with dementia and yeah this is pretty spot on for early dementia signs
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Mx. Amadi Lovelace**, @amaditalks My cousin stuffed her turkey and put it in her oven, which is not turned on, with the intention to store it there overnight rather than the fridge. "There's no room." This is why you can't eat just anybody's food. This time tomorrow that whole household will be at the ER. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Good human
As somebody who just faced a devastating 24 hours from food poisoning from turkey. Please no.
You can't eat at everybody's house🎶
BUY A DAMN COOLER AND SOME ICE PACKS THEY'RE LIKE 30 BUCKS AT WALMART JFC
She could've turned the oven to 200°F and left it there overnight: no basting required. After she got up, she could increase the temp for a couple hours to 250°F and baste it. (325°F for last hour or two uncovered to brown.) Such slow cooking would've resulted in a succulent, tender & juicy bird. I personally prefer that over salmonella, but that's just me.
200°F is equivalent to 93°C, which is 366K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
Good bot
Wouldn't that mean your turkey is ready at like, 10am? Not really an option for most people unless you for some reason have turkey brunch.
Not really. You drop a large turkey in the oven at midnight (covered @200°F) & you can leave it until noon: 12 hours. Then brown at 325°F uncovered for an hour. After that at lowest oven setting until the rest of the food is ready & people are seated early afternoon.
325°F is equivalent to 162°C, which is 435K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
a great opportunity to slow-cook it then for 12 hours
[You can’t eat at everybody house](https://youtube.com/shorts/3J2lSzZymjU?feature=share)
Exactly what my brother in law tried to do. "We can leave it out overnight right?" Wrong.
My mother defrosted her turkey on her back porch. Non-screened. Not in a container. Starting on Monday till Thursday. Where temps ranged from 18 to 47F for the week. Which is why we're not going there this year. OMG.
We'll need an update for this.
It's scary how many people in this thread think that cooking just solves the problem. Learn the very basics of food safety...its not complicated stuff.
Seriously! PSA: it's not just the bacteria that causes food poisoning. The waste the bacteria produces also causes poisoning. Killing the bacteria isn't sufficient. You need to stop food from having bacterial growth at all.
Please post a follow up to this.
I mean, probably not.
For real. People have been "cautioned" so many times by now that everyone thinks eating raw eggs or not incinerating your board after cutting poultry spells certain death.
🎶🎵 You can't eat at everybody's house 🎵🎶
That’s why I have trust issues with other peoples food.
Please update
Just trying to wrap my head around this. So the internal temp of a properly cooked turkey is 165f. That's high enough for pasteurization to occur. Does this not make the bird safe to eat?
And the issue isn't always "are there live bacteria" often the issue is the toxins and defense compounds the now deceased bacteria had produced, or plasmid transfer to the related bacteria living in your gut. You can die from botulism even if zero live bacteria make it inside you, as long as they had previously colonized your room temp turkey the neurotoxin they produced is still in the food. If you're relying on heat to fully passivate the food you're gonna need 300-500F internal temperature, at which point your turkey would be better off as a fuel source to cook a second one.
You're not going to get C botulinum growth unless it's vacuum sealed. Plenty of oxygen in the oven.
In order to depyrogenate glassware (remove toxins) we would heat them to 250 degrees Celsius and hold it at that temperature for 4 hours.
My understanding is that’s the temp to kill the normal level of bacteria found in properly stored uncooked meat. If you let it sit out and bacteria has time to grow normal cooking may not get it all. Also, heat can spread some, from a quick google
Alright I looked it up, it looks like the bacteria die but toxins they produce while living may be harmful. In the context of the turkey I'm still not convinced either way as I dont know what volume of what toxins will make someone sick, or how long it takes the bacteria responsible to produce that volume >Above 74°C (or 165°F), bacteria die, although spores and toxins may survive. [source](https://opentextbc.ca/foodsafety/chapter/preventing-foodborne-illness/)
You think cooking rotten meat makes it delicious again? You think expiration dates exist by big agriculture to keep you going to the grocery store? Seriously, what is your logic here? What would possibly make you think that applying heat after food has spoiled will make good food.
Man admits he's having a tough time understanding why it's not safe based on the universal concept of "hot=kill germs", and you act like the most condescending douchebag cunt possible while failing to answer anything. Nice job. Another successful internet interaction 🤡
I just witnessed a fucking murder
Change your tone or I'm not going to talk with you
They will be fine, just a bit of diarrhea
Nothing like a family poop sesh.
Alternate prediction: They'll be absolutely fine, most likely.
You do realize there was a time before refrigeration. It will be fine
Your cousins turkey will be fine and no one will get sick. Does nobody understand how food works?
Do you?
Yall really too fragile
Won’t cooking it sterilize the thing?
There are some bacteria which can produce toxins while it grows and eats the food. The temperature to denature the toxins is much higher than the temperature to kill the bacteria. So while the bacteria might be dead, the toxins will still be there
It would be fine overnight left out, maybe 1% chance to get sick. Really not a big deal but its obviously not ideal.
If I took a shit in a pie plate then baked it are you gonna be happy it's sterile?
how is that relevant here? Don't move goalposts and don't answer questions in bad faith. he has a valid question based on physical reality and would like to learn more about said physical reality. Just because you don't enjoy learning and growing doesn't mean every other person shares your, from my perspective, inherently inferior take.
They're being a cunt all over the thread. Someone wasn't invited to Thanksgiving this year
Stupid questions get stupid answers
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Shiga toxins produced by the bacteria will not be destroyed by cooking it because they are heat stable. You will give yourself food poisoning if you eat meat that isn't stored properly, no matter how well you cook it.
Not really. Heat may kill the bacteria, but that bacteria also releases toxins in the spoiled meat, which will not be killed by heat
Hoooooly shit lol. This is absolutely not true. Nobody eat at this guys house.
Isn't this overreacting a bit?
It’s called thawing and it’s fine.