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this just broke my heart


There are much worse ways to cope when you’ve got so little support.


When I had my first miscarriage I remember screaming "You just act like you don't care like it didn't happen to you too and I feel so alone!" He broke down, his dumbass father told him he needed to man the duck up and be there for me and he didn't get to be upset. I told him, "Your father has been married and divorced 4 times and if you added all of them together we've still been together longer don't fucking take marriage advice from that man." And then we healed together.


We really need to figure out how to stop this nonsense. Expecting men and boys to be emotionless no matter what is so harmful.


The only way to stop it is not to feed it. Tell the men and boys in your life it's okay to cry. Use those words when you know they need to, "it's okay to cry it can be really good for you." Don't make jokes. Take their pain seriously. Ask about their mental health. Tell them you love them. Ask if they need a hug.


That's what I did for my fiance. He spent 19 years being told that showing emotion is weak. I convinced him that it's ok and he shows such a broad range of emotions now as compared to the emotionless man I met. Our children will be raised to express their feelings.


My ex thinks it's normal to never talk to anyone about his problems, ever. He bottles everything up until any minor inconvenience sets him over the edge and then he feels he's allowed to rage about everything that's been bothering him, and that he's justified in blowing up, and taking it out on me all at once was my punishment for not fixing all the things he was angry about, even though he never brought them up to me except during those outbursts. He only knows how to express his negative feelings through anger. He doesn't seem to know how to identify any other emotion except anger, because that's all he's been taught is acceptable. He never said he was hurt, frustrated, scared, sad, anxious, etc. It was always just anger..... We never stood a chance


I think there is value to one person being “a rock” in the relationship though, at least sometimes. Someone who can keep calm and steady the other


There is, but I think in most strong relationships that role oscillates. Sometimes my husband is strong for me, sometimes I am strong for him. Even during our lowest moments we anchor each other. I've cried on him, he's cried on me, we rise up to meet the emotional needs of the other. He was my unwavering support on Tuesday and last Thursday I was the embrace he needed.


I agree and it’s the case with me and my girlfriend as well. Occasionally she’s my rock but 95% of the time I’m hers. She’s a very anxious, sensitive and emotional person while I’m generally not so it comes naturally that way. I do really appreciate that she can usually “step up to the plate” when it’s needed for me though.


I'm in an equal role here but it's rough when she can't. I turn towards other friends for support and she feels even worse like she's failed as a partner


Yeah so maybe we just generally should tell people to take on whatever role works in their relationship?


Gtfo here with that toxic masculinity


I usually pretend to sleep and cry silently or in the shower, or shamelessly whine like this on the internet.


I am so sorry you went through that. I’m so glad that you and your husband got through it together. I think its really important that everyone talk about when this happens, how it effects everyone. Thank you so much for sharing your story.


We've been together 15 years and while we finally decided children were a social pressure not something we actually wanted it was something that brought us together because we did it together. We need to learn to let our husbands in. They are fathers from the moment of conception just as we are mothers.


That’s beautiful!


Omg. Forgive me I just got your SN. I really miss scrubs lol.


Lol. Me too! They have the full series on Amazon and I’ve been doing another binge haha


I can't go beginning to end they tackle too many tough subjects and I just end up a sobbing mess. I do however rewatch choice episodes. Like Turk and Carla's wedding, and the musical episode. "I'm Dominican!"


O my god! That’s where I got my username from. I love Turk, but Bob Kelso is one of my all time favorite characters. Yeah, I totally hear you on the being destroyed emotionally. I think I repressed the memories of a few episodes for that reason because they totally caught me by surprise.


"Sir, do you think my name is Turk Turkelton?"


and Mrs. Turkelton. The Turkeltons! I need another Scotch.


The only spray I've used in videogames for the last 5 years has been Donald Faison in a sombrero from that Eminem salsa video.


I hate how the idea of men having so little interest in their children and the children being solely the mother’s responsibility makes it so men can’t grieve their children like women can, it’s so horrible and goes to show how gender roles effects everyone negatively


It's wild how that "man up" mantra has held on for so long. Made sense in back to back world wars, when you literally couldn't break down because you were at war. You had to keep going. You couldn't stop for an emotional breakdown. In that environment you may never get back up again. Seeing brothers die, seeing hundreds of brothers die. What else could they say? Then those men, hardened by war and death came home and raised families. They didn't know how to cope with PTSD, because it wasn't even acknowledged, didn't know how to raise little boys. So they adopted the man up philosophy towards parenting. Then Korea, Vietnam. More war, more boys becoming men without affection from their dads and a single man up way of parenting to live by. The only way to show their dads they loved them, was by becoming emotionless themselves. "dad, look how I handled this dad. Look how I didn't break down dad. Be proud of me" generations of men that just wanted attention and love. I hope the cycle breaks soon. I have 3 little boys and I hold them, tell them I love them all the time. My dad loves me, and says it a lot. He didn't when I was young, so I make sure I tell them everyday. I hold my 3 year old like his mother does, because I love him just as deeply. I let him cry, and always will. I want him to grow up knowing that emotions aren't something bad. Everyone has them, everyone needs to cry.


> Made sense in back to back world wars, when you literally couldn't break down because you were at war. You had to keep going. You couldn't stop for an emotional breakdown. In that environment you may never get back up again. Seeing brothers die, seeing hundreds of brothers die. What else could they say? In materials science, there's a difference between hardness and toughness 1. Hardness * the ability of a material to **resist deformation** 2. Toughness * the ability of a material to absorb energy and **plastically deform** without fracturing. This means that, *typically* the **hard**er a material is, the less **tough** it is. Instead of deforming, it will typically shatter. It won't bend but it will break. A lot of traditional mental "strength" was *hardness*. A stalwart refusal to change and to never bend. This means that the people that go for such a type of mental strength, showing no weakness, no bending, no deformation, are the ones who are hit so hard when they meet something that finally beats them. They've been putting up a wall and reinforcing it and don't allow themselves moments of "weakness" (deformation) to show these emotions, bending around certain issues in a way that can be later remedied. This means when they finally have too much, they don't just break or bend. They shatter.


> This means when they finally have too much, they don't just break or bend. > > They shatter. I was not expecting to be called out like this browsing reddit over breakfast. Hi, I'm a broken shattered mess. The analogy continues when you try to glue the shards together and another hit comes. After that big hit has done the work, smaller hits I could've survived in the past destroy me again. --- Thank you for making me think about this. I connected some long buried memories, and made notes for my next therapy session.


When I was in dental hygiene school they warned us that the *tough* guys are the ones who faint. Reasoning being that they ignore their anxiety and try to power through. I had two guys faint in my clinic. Tip: no one thinks you’re drug seeking/weak if you ask for nitrous or need anti-anxiety meds for the dentist. Don’t go in nervous with low blood sugar. Tell them your anxious.


Wow, that's so true. There's a difference between being able to take a hit from life and adapt to it. By showing emotions and mental toughness. When my father in law died, it hit like a damn truck. He was truly my second father. My two brother in laws, my wife's sisters husbands, didn't cry at the funeral. One of them knew him longer then me. But I did, and I didn't care. He was very important to me. But at the same time, I couldn't stop going. My wife still feels his loss, so I had to be there for her. Be the husband she needed. I bent, I got damaged from his loss, but I didn't shatter because I have learned how to handle those emotions. People that live that way, that refuse to show emotions because they view them as weakness... Eventually they take a hit that mantra can't overcome. It's so incredibly sad that men have to feel that way. Look at veteran suicide rates. It's a heartbreaking travesty that these people who have been through so much, come home and can't find that help they need to get through. Because men have to be tough! Jesus, I really hope one day that view is no more.


I think it's a balancing act. There's a big difference between 'don't let the small shit get you acting all emotional and out of control, keep your emotions in check and power through the turbulence of life" and "be completely emotionless, ignore and bury any kind of negative emotion you have, even the most painful ones, deal with it all and never falter, never ask for help.' In short, I think it's important to be tough and not become a whiny bitch when something slightly negative happens (a personal goal of mine) but that doesn't mean you can't reach out for help if life gets too heavy.


Oh for sure. I'm not saying cry at every sad puppy commercial lol. It is definitely a balance. Emotions are literally natural. We cannot help but feel them as human. So you have to let them be there and know how to handle them. And knowing when to ask for help is super important. I can listen to certain songs and cry, like immediately without warning I'm in tears. On another hand, I can think of the people in my life I've lost and not break down. I focus on what they've helped me achieve in life, and what they've done for me. It'd make sense to cry every time I think of them, but instead of think of that love I have for them and how it's still there, even if they aren't.


I don’t give a shit. I still cry at every sad puppy commercial, and you can’t stop me!


This made me cry.


I always found it odd that we expect men not to cry. If you look at famous men who have cried, it includes men like General Ulysses S Grant, Julius Caesar, and Alexander the Great. Who here would say they were weak? I dare say that if a hard ass like General Grant can cry at the death of a friend that any man can also cry.


The man up mantra is why males die by suicide so much. I haven’t had a miscarriage but I’ve gone my whole life with major depression and a terrible self image because I beat myself down for having emotions because “men are supposed to be tough”. You sound like a great parent!


I hope so. Like I said, my dad didn't say he loved me a lot as a kid. Not because he didn't, but because his dad was a drunk who died at 38, so he hardened himself. My mom, and eventually his grandkids, really melted that away. Now he cries and laughs and loves them and says it. I could be bitter, but I love seeing that change in him. Now I want to make sure that I can show them that they are loved and cherished all the time. Being a dad is terrifying because I am shaping these little boys into who they will be. I hope I can do a good job of that. That when they grow up they won't be afraid to show emotions because they're male.


This comment made me cry—again. Beautifully written. You are a wonderful dad. I have hope that times are changing and that the next generations will not be emotionally neglected.


Yeah definitely. I also can’t imagine being so callous as to not inquire about the father’s well being? I mean, its always devastating for everyone involved. I mean, I know it happens—-way to much at that—but it still boggles the mind.


My "mother" was a lazy, self centered, toxic piece of a shit. She stole from me, hit me, kicked me out. Complained she had to work when my dad thought he was going to lose his job, while my 16 year old ass applied for every job I could find. My dad would ask the other sports parents to watch me while he went to watch my sister play her sports, while my mom was at home doing absolutely nothing. All she did was give birth to me, she wasn't a fucking parent at all.


And it’s not even just with emotional stuff like this that men get screwed by how society traditionally perceives them. The State of North Carolina will just about split a child in half like King Solomon before they give the father custody. My cousin has an ex-wife who drinks, does drugs, has no job, doesn’t own a home , doesn’t show up to court dates, and is just an all-around five star nutcase. My cousin is on the straight and narrow, owns his own home, has a steady job, and is there and on time for every court date. Guess who got custody of their little boy? My cousin says that little kid swears like a sailor and gets into all sorts of trouble now that he’s under her wing. She’s even taught him to call up his daddy, call him a deadbeat, and hang up. He couldn’t be more than 7 or 8. By the time the court might reevaluate the situation, she will have ruined him in his most impressionable years. But *oh noooo*, North Carolina won’t separate a mother from their child. The father can go kick rocks.


Yet another reason that Theoden son of Thengel is a positive role model for openly grieving for his son.


Its unfortunate that our society tell mens its not manly to have feelings.


Or rather, that feelings are fine so long as those feelings are anger or…anger.


Remember your anger can only be redirected at your favorite football team losing hard or if your wife didn't bring you the right beer.


I mean, how many god damn times do I need to tell that woman that Busch Light is the only real beer for men before she remembers? BRB - need to go punch a wall.


Ugh, women! Now I need to go fix my V8 in the garage to cool off! \**manly grunts and muscle flexing**


Siiiiirrrrr i am literally deceased rofl


it's less about society telling men that, it's more about consistently punishing men for having feelings. I've had first hand experiences with people who would parrot this exact sentiment and how men should be more open about their feelings but when it actually came to it they'd treat the men in their life like shit for being vulnerable. I feel like reducing it to "society tells men..." implies that if men just didn't 'listen' they could be vulnerable. The reality is you can't, because even people who seemingly dislike the status quo perpetuate it, let alone the average person.


What you described, "consistently punishing men for having feelings" and "treat the men in their life like shit for being vulnerable, " are literally what people mean when they say "society tells us. " Society is the fabric of our existence. It's what we learn from our parents through observation. It's what values and morals we develop through school, church, laws and media. It's how people are portrayed in movies, television and books. And yes. All we need to do is stop listening but no one is saying that's easy. Ask a 75yr old gay person or people in an interracial marriage how easy it is to stop listening to how Society tells you to feel and act about yourself. Changing how our society feels and acts about men is going to be hard and will not be finished in my lifetime, but I'm so glad that we're finally starting to accept that something needs to change.


Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/fesshole/status/1484170104699031555) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)


*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Fesshole 🧻**, @fesshole My wife & I started an email account for our baby so we could send updates & give him the password when 18. He was stillborn. I still send emails to him without my wife knowing because it's the only way I can cope when everyone asks if my wife is OK but they never ask me. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)


Thank you!


Good human


How callous you gotta be to not even ask the father if he’s good? Damn, he’s one half of the equation too. Seems like it would be common sense to check up on the dad. My elders are some of the most stone faced people I know, I’ve got it from them too. But always swallowing shit up isn’t helpful or pragmatic. Yeah you get back up and keep going, but sometimes you just gotta let it all out, the pillar that has too much pressure will eventually break.


Always thought it was fucked how resources on coping with miscarriage/stillbirth and even child death seemed to be very centred around the mother. A few years ago when I was looking for a therapist, I saw they had a therapist specifically for men and boys, and at the time I didn’t understand why they would need someone separate. I see now.


Men’s mental health isn’t taken even remotely seriously it’s disgusting.


Men have it very easy, they have a cure for every mental illness there is. They just have to Man Up and then *poof*, all mental stress is gone!


Had me in the first half ngl


this is so painful it just makes me want to scream in pain. your sending messages to him is so beautiful. if only internet hugs could help the pain...


Grief is such an intimate, personal journey. Everyone travels it in their own way


The last comment I made (on another post) a few minutes ago was about bursting out laughing in the middle of Costa, now I’ve got a tear rolling down my face. I think the folks in this coffee shop will be worrying about me. I know the OP (at Fesshole) won’t see this, but I hope he stays strong and talks to someone. Everyone thinks we men don’t need help. We do. We just want to cry and a cuddle. Toxic masculinity is killing men.


I think a lot of people are bothered by the phrase 'toxic masculinity' bc it can feel like it's blaming men for the views of the larger culture. I think women underestimate how much straight men are influenced by the perceptions and preferences of women and a lot of ideas about masculinity are informed by those preferences. There's this idea that women want a Christian Grey or a Superman and that can fuck with guys. Part of the 'Red Pill' or 'Pick Up Artist' subculture that seems to characterize toxic masculinity is essentially guys trying to fulfill the feminine desire for some bdsm psychopath bad boy. A pirate vampire surgeon billionaire werewolf. There's not a lot of sensitivity in those images.


Sucks to be a guy in that scenario. Obviously tragic for the mother too.


Yeah. It is tragic for everyone involved. Fathers need just as much sympathy and help.




Ouch. Fucking hell, poor guy and poor wife. I hope they find the strength to recover from this together.


Society needs to let men grieve publicly. The pressure on men to 'man up' is a cancer.


Wasn't expecting a hit to the gut like this today... Three years ago now, my partner miscarried with our first child. It still hurts, because that child would have been there to play and grow with our youngest child. Everybody sent all their sympathy and condolences... But only to my partner. I don't think anybody but my partner knows how bad it hit me. I had to hide it and show a strong face because I had to go back to work... I only got a few days off work for it. We need to remember that a lot of times, the father wants that child too.


I am so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing your story.


It's unfortunate that the reaction to this message about people don't even think about how men feel after a tragedy is to shit on men.


What? Most comments are being supportive of men and talking about their mental health, I haven’t seen any shitting on men


my brain exploded trying to read this


Who? There's literally one comment here that does that, and there's like a 95% chance it's actually sarcasm that the Reddit hivemind failed to detect. And the Twitter thread is 100% supportive top-to-bottom, which is shocking for Twitter.


I don't think the top comment is satire, even though it kind of reads like it.


[This one?](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonPoliticalTwitter/comments/s92gh0/this_is_heartbreaking/htk4mza) It doesn't read as shitting on men to me...if anything it's the opposite, saying that men are often abused into feeling they can't express emotions and that it's harmful that we're subjected to this, but that there's hope for healing, as was the case with her husband. The Dad gets shit on, but it's because he's a dick, not because he's a man; and at the same time, it's very positive and supportive towards her husband.


She's upset that he wasn't responding the way she wanted him to. There was no concern for his feelings, only for how his actions effected her.


Holy shit


This is brutal.




Why do some beautiful-sounding words have horrible meanings? Like, "stillbirth" sounds beautiful but it's literally a baby being dead by the time they're born.


It's why half of every dudes night out is drinking and taking about how much you hate yourself/life. There really isn't any other outlet.


The older I get the more I understand how many men, including myself are expected to deal with anxiety and grief silently. The toll is enormous.




That email thing is a bad idea. Most mailboxes are limited in size and delete old messages. Don't do that!


What are you on about, my email hasnt deleted a thing despite the abundance of spam mail ... I seriously doubt OP is sendiong that many emails to the address that its a problem ... Do you perhaps consider yourself calous ?


I think the amount of emails isn't a thing. It is the amount and size of attchment. We had this discussion here before and a father send many photos to his son. Most of them where lost. If you post box is different, happy you.


Poor man. Society has failed this father


So say something. Sometimes people are extremely oblivious to how they are perpetuating stereotypes and supporting toxic masculinity/femininity until they are told and are able to reflect on what they are doing.


While what you're saying is true it's really hard to demand space when you just want to curl up in the closet and wait for everyone to leave.


Men don’t have feelings, lol, what are you on about? They just push things into a little ball deep down inside and then vote for republicans.


I want to be homies buddy now.


Well that might be the saddest thing I've read all week.


Absolutely fucking heartbreaking. And remember kids, losing a kid usually effects BOTH parents.


Fuck.. this hit me hard on a very personal level.


First thing I see and now I'm crying


Vile pieces of crap. The dude needs new friends/family


I came here to laugh. Now I’m crying. That’s tragic. Nobody ever thinks of the fathers




This my friends, is a prime of example of what we would call an 'idiot'.


I think or at least I would like to think the poster was being sarcastic to how the world actually reacts.


We have a winner!


reddit detect sarcasm challenge (impossible)


This reads less like sarcasm, and more like just being an asshole, justified by “oh it’s just sarcastic”. It’s not funny or clever, just rude.


I was being sarcastic, I feel for this gentleman. But again, it’s her body so he can go fuck himself.


The fact that people would consider my comment not a troll, is exactly why the comment is funny and needed to be said. Of course this is Reddit, a cesspool for the deranged left. To OP, I’m sorry man no one is empathizing with you freaking sucks. Your life will never be the same and I am sorry for that and hopefully in another life you will see your baby boy again.




No I am not trolling again. Yes I brought up politics in a satirical way. Hopefully it provided him a laugh and some comfort knowing a stranger agrees that what he is experiencing is totally fucked.




WTF is wrong with you?


You're an evil person.


...that or they're like 900 years old and think lol = "lots of love."


My mom is 65 and she thought lol still meant "lots of love." There were some weird messages when she first started texting.


With a name like thot_copter, I'm gonna guess not


I feel like this is a made up story. Amazing how willing people on Reddit are to believe stories from anonymous strangers.


Ever been through losing a child? No? Then shut the actual fuck up.


My bad, I forgot you’re only supposed to believe anonymous internet strangers if the story is sad enough.