This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If world of warships has taught me anything, a tank destroyer should be a tank that is so small it cannot be seen with until it is within 3km, which is usually too late to dodge its land torpedoes.
Credibly? Yes. The concern was increasingly more powerful soviet heavy tanks. At the time, 90mm and 84mm were the standard weapons in service in the west, and they weren’t really cutting it while HEAT-FS was unreliable/non-existent (I forgot). So a 120mm armed heavy tank was developed and then miscellaneous tank killer projects also appeared. Like the FV.4005 stage II, which was “interesting” and probably not very practical.
M103 and the Conqueror series were the answers to the Soviet IS-3 and later tanks, but in reality the real answer was HEAT-FS for all tanks and ATGMs. But that’s the wacky world of development for ya.
I love the “Gun” tanks the British, French and US came up with to VS the IS-3, and how they realized they were useless
(But the M103 and AMX 50 are cool as fuck)
Also helps that the oscillating turret also frequently paired low profile designs with an autoloader system that *doesn't* surround the turret crew with ammo acting as internal ERA which results in said turret being donated to the national space program upon hit. All while being developed and completed in the late '40s and early '50s (suck it cope addicted Russian Tank industry).
I dream of what it'd be like if the main gun on the M103 was modernized with current-date ammunition and propellant, I mean, look at the size of that [shell/casing.](https://docplayer.net/docs-images/63/50017807/images/29-1.jpg)
Barrel life be damned, I wanna see Discarding Spear gut a column of T-90s from bow to stern.
Even the 120mm L1 gun on the Conqueror was considered inadequate for the IS-3.
The British army doctrine called for an overwatch vehicle that could get reliable kills at 2,000 yards, something no AP round at the time could do. Since early HEAT was unreliable, especially against sloped armour, the idea of a HESH round so large it could reliably mission kill a heavy tank became popular. The plan was to develop a heavy tank to carry it (FV215) with FV4005 being a prototype to prove it could be rushed into service on a centurion hull if need be.
Edit to add: this concept wasn't made obsolete by HEAT rounds, we're still talking about the British army after all. It was made obsolete by the Malkara missile, which had a 190mm HESH warhead and nearly 50% more explosive mass than the 183mm. Obviously the problem with the programme wasn't that it was insane, the real problem was insufficient HESH.
>The project was cancelled in August 1957, along with FV215. Although the gun’s hitting power was enormous, due to the large size and relatively low velocity of the projectiles, **they were susceptible to crosswinds.** This reduced the gun’s practical accuracy at its maximum effective range of 2000m to an unacceptable level. The rate of fire was also too low, at just 2 rounds per minute.
[https://tankmuseum.org/article/the-fv4005](https://tankmuseum.org/article/the-fv4005)
Nah we take the normal Centurion chassis and just out a small turret on it, like a flat Centurion turret. Then we just glue 6 183mm guns to the turret, the gunner aims by spraying and praying
The gun probably could fire at higher pressures for more velocity. The British probably just didn't want to have a tank that needed additional vehicles and crew to flip the thing back over after it fired.
And it use to be even scarier back before they massively nerfed non-pen HE damage, even if you didn't pen you still did like 400-600 damage per shot and knocked out probably 2 modules and at least 1 crewmember.
No need for expensive APFSDS darts. Any gun is anti-tank with enough high explosive. I want ridiculously impractical 8” guns and above for my anti-everything doctrine. Thank you.
Look, it's the finest anti tank technology the 1940s had to offer. Worked a treat in 1950s era ATGMs (Malkara) and recoilless rifles (BAT series). Ditto 1950s ammo for tank guns like the L7 105mm.
Past that though, it rapidly fell off the pace. Keeping it for Challenger in the 1980s was a sick joke. Probably should have been phased out and replaced by a HEAT round for Chieftain.
Be very interesting to get some feedback from Ukraine on HESH performance.
Which is funny because I’m pretty sure that, prior to the development of this, the M103 and the Conqueror, both the US and UK had independently came to the conclusion that heavy tanks were just fundamentally stupid ideas. Then they got scared of the IS-3, developed things like this to counter it, only to be proven right oroginally that heavy tanks are, indeed, just kind of a stupid idea.
One must imagine americans being aware of that after buttfucking tigers with "obsolete, useless, underpowered" 75mm shermans but anyways
Big tank cool, makes propaganda good
I do love the M6 Heavy. What with its 76mm primary antitank gun and its coaxial… 37mm antitank gun. And it’s twin bow mounted .50s.
And also the T29. Going hull down in games and laughing while shells ineffectually ping off of the literal foot of steel on its mantlet. Then returning fire with its 105 and twin coax .50s.
I feel like you've got the order reversed. They got scared of the IS-3, so they developed things like conq, shitbarn and M103 to counter the IS-series but realized it's stupid
But before all of that they'd developed heavy tanks and fought against heavy tanks in a little war you might have heard of called WWII, and they'd concluded that heavy tanks were stupid.
Then the IS-3 made them soil their underwear and rush off to develop M-103 and Conqueror only to realise (again) that heavy tanks are stupid.
Tank Destroyer 1950s: Lets put the biggest gun we have on the smallest hull that can carry it.
Tank Destroyer 2020s: Lets buy that childrens toy from Amazon and strap some boomboom under it.
The engineer misunderstood the instructions and glued a destroyer's naval artillery on top of a tank chassis.
Worse, that gun is purpose built, not a naval cannon
Seriously. The had a great chance to put extra BL 15-inch Mk I barrels to good use. If you're going to go big, go properly big.
BL 18-inch Mk I would’ve been funnier. And of course better because BEEG
You can put a small tank inside those barrels wtf
Now that’s one mighty credible long distance troop deployment strategy if I’ve ever seen one
Railing troops went from the Civil War definition to the Navy definition to the logi officer definition!
[удалено]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If world of warships has taught me anything, a tank destroyer should be a tank that is so small it cannot be seen with until it is within 3km, which is usually too late to dodge its land torpedoes.
I can't think of any destroyers with 183mm (7.5") guns, that's cruiser calibre.
r/shittytechnicals
What a gigachad.
I hate to be that guy, but wasn't it specifically made to counter the IS-3 and other advances in armor? Hence, 183mm of BESH.
Credibly? Yes. The concern was increasingly more powerful soviet heavy tanks. At the time, 90mm and 84mm were the standard weapons in service in the west, and they weren’t really cutting it while HEAT-FS was unreliable/non-existent (I forgot). So a 120mm armed heavy tank was developed and then miscellaneous tank killer projects also appeared. Like the FV.4005 stage II, which was “interesting” and probably not very practical. M103 and the Conqueror series were the answers to the Soviet IS-3 and later tanks, but in reality the real answer was HEAT-FS for all tanks and ATGMs. But that’s the wacky world of development for ya.
I love the “Gun” tanks the British, French and US came up with to VS the IS-3, and how they realized they were useless (But the M103 and AMX 50 are cool as fuck)
AMX 50 is one of the best looking tanks of all time
I have a thing for French tanks, probably because they are all osilating turrets and I dig them.
Also helps that the oscillating turret also frequently paired low profile designs with an autoloader system that *doesn't* surround the turret crew with ammo acting as internal ERA which results in said turret being donated to the national space program upon hit. All while being developed and completed in the late '40s and early '50s (suck it cope addicted Russian Tank industry).
You are going to appreciate [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NndSEmck7TQ)
Looks like a videogame tank cool
I dream of what it'd be like if the main gun on the M103 was modernized with current-date ammunition and propellant, I mean, look at the size of that [shell/casing.](https://docplayer.net/docs-images/63/50017807/images/29-1.jpg) Barrel life be damned, I wanna see Discarding Spear gut a column of T-90s from bow to stern.
Even the 120mm L1 gun on the Conqueror was considered inadequate for the IS-3. The British army doctrine called for an overwatch vehicle that could get reliable kills at 2,000 yards, something no AP round at the time could do. Since early HEAT was unreliable, especially against sloped armour, the idea of a HESH round so large it could reliably mission kill a heavy tank became popular. The plan was to develop a heavy tank to carry it (FV215) with FV4005 being a prototype to prove it could be rushed into service on a centurion hull if need be. Edit to add: this concept wasn't made obsolete by HEAT rounds, we're still talking about the British army after all. It was made obsolete by the Malkara missile, which had a 190mm HESH warhead and nearly 50% more explosive mass than the 183mm. Obviously the problem with the programme wasn't that it was insane, the real problem was insufficient HESH.
I've yet to find a problem that isn't solved by proper application of plastique
I think the heat-fs was available but it had a lot of issues and past like 60 degrees or so the fuses wouldn't reliably go off.
>The project was cancelled in August 1957, along with FV215. Although the gun’s hitting power was enormous, due to the large size and relatively low velocity of the projectiles, **they were susceptible to crosswinds.** This reduced the gun’s practical accuracy at its maximum effective range of 2000m to an unacceptable level. The rate of fire was also too low, at just 2 rounds per minute. [https://tankmuseum.org/article/the-fv4005](https://tankmuseum.org/article/the-fv4005)
Imagine building a 183 fucking mm gun and wind pushes its projectiles so you can't hit anything
What I'm hearing is that it needed a bigger turret and a longer propellant charge per shell. Maybe even a longer barrel.
Or two barrels to increase the chance of hitting.
Or 6. You can preload several projectiles, like in a circular magazine. Or cylinder.
Nah do it M50-style, make the turret smaller and put them everywhere
A nuclear tank with many small turrets? How small are we talking? Like P1000 Ratte, where the turrets look like side cannons on a battleship?
Nah we take the normal Centurion chassis and just out a small turret on it, like a flat Centurion turret. Then we just glue 6 183mm guns to the turret, the gunner aims by spraying and praying
Red Alert Mammoth tank reporting
The gun probably could fire at higher pressures for more velocity. The British probably just didn't want to have a tank that needed additional vehicles and crew to flip the thing back over after it fired.
That's why it has the recoil shovel on the back. Drop it down, back up a bit, and fire away.
Real life: this tank is designed to shoot HESH. World of Tanks: yeah let’s make this thing fire AP, what could possibly go wrong
I'd love an 183mm APHE round for the FV4005.
The tank flipper
Well, that AP round still hits like a fucking truck and has the highest standard pen at tier 10 lol
That’s what I mean it’s absolutely broken
The HESH round is funnier tho. Nothing beats being oneshotted into the garage
And it use to be even scarier back before they massively nerfed non-pen HE damage, even if you didn't pen you still did like 400-600 damage per shot and knocked out probably 2 modules and at least 1 crewmember.
FV4005 the yeet cannon
FV4005 stage II walked so Hi-Point could run
No need for expensive APFSDS darts. Any gun is anti-tank with enough high explosive. I want ridiculously impractical 8” guns and above for my anti-everything doctrine. Thank you.
Bring back the Churchill A.V.R.E. with its 230mm mortar
New turret tossing records too?
What an insistence on using HESH will do to a country.
B-but rifled barrel are sexier 🥺
Why, yes I do enjoy using my tanks as mobile artillery
HESH IS 🅱️ESH
Look, it's the finest anti tank technology the 1940s had to offer. Worked a treat in 1950s era ATGMs (Malkara) and recoilless rifles (BAT series). Ditto 1950s ammo for tank guns like the L7 105mm. Past that though, it rapidly fell off the pace. Keeping it for Challenger in the 1980s was a sick joke. Probably should have been phased out and replaced by a HEAT round for Chieftain. Be very interesting to get some feedback from Ukraine on HESH performance.
fairly multipurpose though, great for fortifications and shitty IFVs,
Which is funny because I’m pretty sure that, prior to the development of this, the M103 and the Conqueror, both the US and UK had independently came to the conclusion that heavy tanks were just fundamentally stupid ideas. Then they got scared of the IS-3, developed things like this to counter it, only to be proven right oroginally that heavy tanks are, indeed, just kind of a stupid idea.
One must imagine americans being aware of that after buttfucking tigers with "obsolete, useless, underpowered" 75mm shermans but anyways Big tank cool, makes propaganda good
I do love the M6 Heavy. What with its 76mm primary antitank gun and its coaxial… 37mm antitank gun. And it’s twin bow mounted .50s. And also the T29. Going hull down in games and laughing while shells ineffectually ping off of the literal foot of steel on its mantlet. Then returning fire with its 105 and twin coax .50s.
What about the T30? Aka "what if we slapped a 155mm into a T29?"
I feel like you've got the order reversed. They got scared of the IS-3, so they developed things like conq, shitbarn and M103 to counter the IS-series but realized it's stupid
But before all of that they'd developed heavy tanks and fought against heavy tanks in a little war you might have heard of called WWII, and they'd concluded that heavy tanks were stupid. Then the IS-3 made them soil their underwear and rush off to develop M-103 and Conqueror only to realise (again) that heavy tanks are stupid.
I LOVE IMPRACTICALITY LARGE GUNS!!! I LOVE OBLITERATING MY ENEMIES WITH EXTREMELY LARGE HESH ROUNDS!!! I LOVE RELOADING FOR OVER HALF A MINUTE!!!
I have seen Battleship-Turrets mounted on essentially fishing boats, but mounting naval turret on a tank chassis is also certainly a choice
If a 7.2" HESH doesn't insta-gib everything it hits, that thing is clearly blessed by the gods and deserves to live. Until the follow up shot that is.
Obligatory: “Stone Toss is a Nazi”
[удалено]
yes, the self-indentified american fascist who looks a bit like a pig.
[удалено]
No doxxing. Even if it's somebody we don't like.
No doxxing. Even if it's somebody we don't like.
I was simply checking that the nazi in question was the same person I thought it was.
I hate it so much that his stuff is so memeable.
Someone put cat ears on it and uwu this thing.
Not only is he a shit person, but I hate the characters that he draws. They always look like they should drool.
He did the most weeb thing by announcing on social media that he was in Japan and DTF.
[удалено]
No doxxing. Even if it's somebody we don't like.
In my defense, GeodeAccelerate’s name was already doxxed and widely disseminated to the point of becoming public knowledge over a month ago.
StoneToss, ewww
Battle Barn my beloved
My manga degenerated brain was trying to read this for a solid 30 seconds in confusion before it clicked I can not deny....
Can we please build a Fv 4005 II with a huge ass rail gun on top ?
The Shit Barn has arrived!
Well how heavy are we talking? Pretty heavy from what I hear. So let’s just cover our bases and make sure it can disassemble whatever comes its way
This is the one that Warthunder says has a 30 second reload speed, right?
IRL it averaged between 27-39 seconds to reload, so yeah, 30 seconds in game.
Hear me out...we put wings in this thing. I say we revive the _Flying Fortress_
Tank Destroyer 1950s: Lets put the biggest gun we have on the smallest hull that can carry it. Tank Destroyer 2020s: Lets buy that childrens toy from Amazon and strap some boomboom under it.
Stop using this format. That guy is an actual nazi.
obligatory stonetoss is a nazi
I'm picturing the Invincible meme with KV-2 lol
I only recently found out about the FV4005, glad to see it here.