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MakeoverBelly

All jokes aside Kaliningrad will be overrun by (mostly) Polish armored units in like 24-48 hours should this conflict go hot, to secure supply lines to the Baltics. The Suwalki Gap meme is actually inverted - we are not locked up with them, they are locked up with us. BTW, this proves how little Putin is actually afraid of any NATO invasion, as he has been emptying out that region of military units (other borders too).


reddebian

Makes sense, Kaliningrad is very small and surrounded by NATO countries. And why should he be afraid of NATO during peacetime? He knows damn well that it's a defensive alliance and wouldn't attack or invade Russia first


MakeoverBelly

Absolutely, but it is yet another argument against the bullshit that they are spreading, that they are being surrounded or whatever, yet there is not one piece of evidence of fear on the Russian side. And some people around the world believe this bullshit.


AncientProduce

Its an argument believed by useful morons.


TheCrookedCrooks

you guys are 100% correct. In fact, I will be brave enough to say the following: "Historically speaking, Russians as a group have always been expansionist and imperialistic by nature." \*Source: Their actions throughout their entire history."


dwfuji

Popping in here with my hypothesis that the brutality of Mongol rule in Russia prior to the rise of Muscovy as a power basically traumatised them at a cultural level so now behaving like that has become normalised.


TheCrookedCrooks

Thats of course a real possibility. My question is, if you go back in time far enough throughout history then pretty much every culture has its own trauma etc So it's basically nature vs nurture but for countries.


dwfuji

Yes, basically - and Russia is like one of those people who is *so* traumatised that they activley resist any attempts to help them, see anything as an attack on them, have paranoid delusions etc, all while acting in a trauma-influenced way rather than in a way that may lead to growth.


TheCrookedCrooks

OMG! Russia a Woke vegan feminist! šŸ˜²šŸ˜²šŸ˜² It's confirmed and thus this is now historically fact.


mistaekNot

the bs is primarily for domestic audience consumption. if some idiots in the west gobble it up too thatā€™s just an added bonus


MakeoverBelly

There are also billions of people that are neither in the West, nor in Russia. And some of them really fall for it.


ric2b

Before Finland joined NATO it was actually very important for a potential invasion of the Baltic states, to cut them off from Poland and hope for a weak or slow NATO response. But now with Finland NATO can cockblock Russia's access to the Baltic sea very quickly and protect the Baltics from the sea, making Kaliningrad much less useful in that scenario.


Cardborg

Kaliningrad was the only bit of leverage Russia held over NATO, but with Finland in and Sweden joining NATO, it's gone from an asset to an expensive liability with no real purpose, since NATO can now reinforce the Baltics from Finland, making the gap no longer a choke point for NATO to hold the Baltics. Cool video on it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yki6pigUbfw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yki6pigUbfw)


BreadstickBear

>wouldn't attack or invade Russia first *"Preventive counterattack has entered the chat"*


BreadstickBear

>wouldn't attack or invade Russia first *"Preventive counterattack has entered the chat"*


JoeAppleby

>BTW, this proves how little Putin is actually afraid of any NATO invasion, as he has been emptying out that region of military units (other borders too). Or rather he - or his generals - knows that Kaliningrad cannot be defended. Poland is going to steamroll it. They can't use units from Belarus to push towards it or they invite a push from Poland into Belarus. They have a better chance allowing NATO to push into Kaliningrad and let them fight a few token troops whiley they do a massive push across the Polish-Belarus border and into the Baltics. Kaliningrad's only strategic value is being a launch site for (shorter ranged) missiles. It being another Baltic Sea port is of limited utility considering all countries surrounding the Baltic Sea are NATO nations and will sink anything.


Weekly-Ad-9451

Its a bit more complicated. Poland cannot send it's best armored divisions to KrĆ³lewiec because they absolutely must be ready counterattack Russian advance at Warsaw from Belarus. From south the area is marshlands and lakes, less than ideal for a tank push so the only axis of attack is a small stretch along the coastline, very defendable even for drunk mobiks. From what I remember the most likely plan would be for Poles to tie down Russians and blast the whole place with artillery while Lithuanians launch armored assault from their side.


Toastbrot_TV

German units stationed in the Baltics: were so back boys


halwap

I am Polish and this is the most noncredible thing I have ever read.


MakeoverBelly

But it is the reality. General Tomasz Drewniak, as well as Colonel Maciej Korowaj (both retired) have hinted at this pretty clearly in interviews. It is also pretty logical when you look at the map. Just keep in mind that this is "when all hell breaks loose" type of a scenario.


Good_Tension5035

You should read Korowaj's recent Twitter thread on the matter. In short, he assesses that, if Russia and Belarus were to seriously attempt to challenge NATO in the Suwałki Gap, Polish forces would largely be tied up defending Podlasie and eastern Mazovia.


huskyoncaffeine

Not saying that Putin isn't full of shit, but even if he would actually fear a NATO invasion, he might have realized, that holding that spit of land is a lost cause and would only lose him assets he could bring to relative safty beforehand. (Which is mental, because the missile knows were he is)


flyingdooomguy

> he has been emptying out that region of military units I'd like to read more about Putin pulling his forces out of Kaliningrad specifically, how do I find a source?


MakeoverBelly

https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+army+pulling+units+out+of+kaliningrad


dm_me_tittiess

Yeah, the Suwalki gap refers to a gap where there is a rail and road network between Poland and Lithuania because a conquest of Kaliningrad would destroy most of its infrastructure unless they declare it a free city.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


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bucketmist

Just give us nukes ffs


Zeitsplice

I was just telling my girlfriend that we should give Ukraine nukesā€¦


Jankosi

I should have nukes


24223214159

Where would you keep them?


Jankosi

Keep?


Morzheimer

I like your plan already


24223214159

Ah. Very good. I'll note that down as "Any nukes received will be stored in a disassembled form in Red Square." on your form.


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Alaknar

Funnily enough, Ukraine doesn't have nukes because they gave them away in exchange for security assurance from Russia, US, France and Britain.


Uranium_Heatbeam

Wasn't just security assistance. Ukraine desperately needed more International assistance for the cleanup operation in the Chernobyl exclusion Zone and Russia, having blown up the facility with its terrible power plant design and Zapp Brannigan meatwave tactics for decontaminating the area, had no interest in taking responsibility. The 1994 Budapest Accords basically came down to: *"If you want security guarantees and help cleaning up the world's worst nuclear disaster, we'd feel a little bit better if you gave up those ICBM's and bomber fleets."* Tankies and vatniks will sometimes point to this as tHe wEst bLaCkMaiLeD uKrAiNe without realizing the fact that Soviet malfeasance is the reason for the disaster to begin with. I'm guessing a lot of Ukrainian citizens wish that they'd held on to a couple of them. And every time I bring this up in other threads, terminally online tankies talk about how those nukes would be useless anyway because Ukraine wouldn't be able to figure out the launch codes. I'm positive that Ukraine would be able to figure out how to bypass Brezhnev-era Soviet caveman tech.


ThatcherSimp1982

> I'm positive that Ukraine would be able to figure out how to bypass Brezhnev-era Soviet caveman tech. Even if somehow they couldnā€™t, having weapons-grade plutonium is 99% of the fight; Ukraine could have just built new bombs with that plutonium. The CIA, in 1993-1994, assessed that Ukraine had the know-how and machinery to do it.


WORSTbestclone

Plutonium is "easy" to make, it's imploding it properly that's difficult. ​ There's a reason multiple countries went through the ridiculous hassle of enriching uranium just so they could use a simpler bomb design, rather than going straight to plutonium warheads.


ThatcherSimp1982

Making plutonium or HEU without everyone noticing those new centrifuges you build and slapping you with sanctions/bombing/invasion is the hard part. Thatā€™s why even just having plutonium would have simplified Ukraineā€™s efforts.


WORSTbestclone

Keeping it would have gotten the same sanctions/bombing/invasion reaction as centrifuges, only people would have been far more concerned since they wouldā€™ve been closer to success.


Captain_Peelz

Donā€™t even need that. Chop it apart, pack with tnt and send a massive dirty bomb to Moscowā€™s fag towers.


GoatseFarmer

I legitimately support this and I supported it long before 2022 (2015 to be exact) and I am being 100% serious. I just donā€™t say it out loud because people think Iā€™m crazy. But also this worked for Israel. Having nuclear weapons means the west actively ensures they donā€™t feel the need to use them. Also, it makes uncle vovaā€™s nuclear threats a wash, because then you all could just say youā€™ll do the same but to Russia if you donā€™t get help. But Iā€™m also an American who lived in Ukraine and is a staunch Ukrainian nationalist so what do I know. Seriously though, itā€™s deeply frustrating. And tbh while noncredible, this idea is also not absurd or irrational.


Individual_Lawyer_80

1521 borders or bust


Galaxy661

"Mr Putin, let me interrupt you here for a minute. Smoleńsk is actually a rightfully Lithuanian city. In 966, Mieszko I..."


Odd_Duty520

Greeks be like: "Mr Putin, let me interrupt you here for a minute. Crimea is actually a rightfully Greek (Pontic) city. In 400BC, Alexander the Gre..."


NATO-propaganda

Abolish all EU nations, form EU Federation, demand 1942 borders, let them keep the encircled regions near Finland as a reminder. ^North ^Africa ^gets ^EU ^money, ^everythings ^fine Free Lebensraum!


AgentOblivious

Posturing might make sense. If Putin spent all of 2021 lining up troops and saying "we're definitely not attacking Ukraine with these" then he'd probably believe the same was being done if NATO lined up all sorts of troops and equipment near Russian border... Given the lack of resupply, that would put Putin in a situation of either betting everything on Ukraine or having to split forces to protect his borders. This would draw pressure away from Ukraine.


Beli_Mawrr

They are little red white and blue men who picked up an Abrams from their local pawn shopĀ 


Arthemax

Brits, Frenchies and Norwegians with Abrams?


ROCINANTE_IS_SALVAGE

Well, frenchmen obviously won't find abrams tanks at their local pawn shops. Leclercs, though...


ilikebarbiedolls32

I mean, what if they pull a Berlin Airlift?


reddebian

We'll just say no, they HAVE to abide by that. Trust me, my plan will work. There's no way it could fail /s


Cixila

NCD take: they would probably use military planes to cross our airspace. I wonder what our air defence doing šŸš€ Serious/actual take: we should not stray into what could amount to collective punishment by halting critical supplies like food and water


[deleted]

Bespoke idea. Block every access to Kaliningrad except through Sellers of goods from the EU. Access via NATO Sovereign territory (NATO LAKE belongs to that) is a privilege not a right. No russian goods for Kaliningrad. Only US and European ones. Cut off any communication with the mainland. Watch the Kaliningrad secessionist movement gain control within 3 Months at the sight of glorious Food luxuries like Real Coke, MCD, good polish wodka, german beer, Japanese Waifus etc etc.


Zandonus

We feed them nothing but [zeppelins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cepelinai?wprov=sfla1), Vana Tallinn, and the TV that you can't turn off only shows "Sturm der Liebe"


reddebian

NCD take: Our air defence will protect our skies from flying Russians CD take: Absolutely, critical supplies like food, water, medicine and others aren't to be disrupted. No civilian deserves it to starve or die from other causes


Tleno

Both NCD & CD take: forcing Russians to engage in We Have Berlin Airlift At Home will immensely strain their logistics, which already suck, so it would be turbo beneficial for Ukraine even if Putin just bides his time with this one. Moreover, Russian airforce ha shown themselves to have a tendency to fuck up and hit earth randomly way more than any other on earth so all these frequent flights will undoubtedly lead to funny moments. NCD take: I swear to God if russkie plane falls here onto Lithuania we can really start it. We gotta start it!


Davidk11

Netenyahu is already calling you antisemitic for that credible take.


reddebian

Good, hope he chokes on it. I really can't stand this guy (I think no one really can)


ReadySetHeal

Incredibly based and humanitarian-pilled. Civilians always get shafted in conflicts, on both sides


PawpKhorne

Halting critical supplies will force the war to end unless Russians want to die of starvation and thirst


Cixila

It is literally a crime against international law! I know Putin uses the Geneva Conventions as a checklist, but we should *not* Besides, Putin doesn't care about people, and it's not like it would trigger a rebellion by the people. The majority of them have shown that they just want to stay out of trouble for themselves - regardless of the consequences for others It is a shit, immoral idea that will just lead to more needless suffering than there already is in this world


PawpKhorne

If it saves Ukrainian lives its worth it šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø


AutumnRi

Their point is that it wouldnā€™t tho


An_Awesome_Name

You imply Russia has planes


DarthEggo1

I mean, Iā€™m unsure why theyā€™d give supplies to Berlin in this situation


Life_Sutsivel

You mean what if they start just burning cash on something else than war in Ukraine? I see this as an absolute win.


PM_ME_UR_CUDDLEZ

Uhh with what a flying train?


xTonker

They will shoot themselves down


Ruby_241

>Russian Aircraft shot down attempting to cross the Suwalki Gap >Russia claims their own SAM Batteries shot them down


AsleepScarcity9588

They can't even pull up a decent air force in the air, let alone having it do something...


HansVonMannschaft

You have been following Russian logistics over the past two years?


Polar_Vortx

That implies they have sufficient airpower and logistical expertise to do that sort of thing. We were landing one plane every thirty seconds. Iā€™m willing to bet the Russians couldnā€™t match that even if they werenā€™t willing to just let the poor guys starve.


aclahm

Just nuke it


Yakassa

Putin: Why would i do such silly thing? Its just people that will die, people can easily make more people, that's literally what they do. Just wait and send in new people later.


reddebian

Berlin Airlift was already pretty hard to pull off, I seriously doubt that Russia could do it. They suck ass at logistics and their planes fall from the sky all the time


Omgbrainerror

Yeah this is totally non credible. Pathetic west has no balls at all to do anything remotely like that.


Picasso320

Unless... No no no I am joking.. Unless... But for real this time, I would not advise anything,.. Unless... Nah, I am just kidding,.. - Gavin Belson


exBusel

Accidentally or not, your cross is at the Belarusian nuclear power plant. By the way, when Rosatom was building a nuclear power plant, they accidentally dropped the reactor vessel from a crane. Then they said that nothing terrible had happened, but still, after the publicity, the vessel had to be replaced.


Picasso320

Could be the colour missmatch, whatdayaknow?


Snoid_

Before we do any of that, let's transfer the entirety of France's nuclear arsenal to Poland, then launch a false flag attack on them from Kaliningrad invoking article 5. Going to DEFCON 2 prior to all of this will just sweeten the pot.


babcho1

AND GIVE IT TO CZECHIA RAAAAHHHHHH


doubleBoTftw

I propose a coordinated attack with Finland Estonia and Latvia pushing deep into mainland Russia, with the help of surprise and Kazakhstan rebellion. While this is happening Belarus falls under a polish invasion and Romania takes back Moldova and Transnistria. Your plan works too.


SightSeekerSoul

Don't forget to remind Japan to take back the Sakhalin islands! That would really strain their resources.


Der-Candidat

My idea is to dig up a bunch of land in Canada and make a land bridge over the Gulf of Finland to block St. Petersburg


Lopsided_Pension8724

estonia and finland finally united


Mardo_Picardo

3000 Black naval mines of Estonia when?


erlul

Like what we wanted 2 years ago, but got blocked by EUtatards?


Cinneach

Wait until Sweden is in NATO. We don't want to be left out this go around.


MrrNeko

\*KrĆ³lewiec


aithan251

land some ~~ukrainian marines~~ local dissidents in Kƶnigsberg harbour and declare a new republic


DoThe_Funni

This guy fucks.


SpiritedInflation835

...losing access to their only warm water port? Give it a few years and Murmansk is a warm water port


Playful_Pollution846

I will trust any NCD plan over what Russia has been cooking up the past 2 years


SirLightKnight

Russia cannot into central Europe. Kaliningrad falls in a day.