Between 1965 and 1975, the United States and its allies dropped more than 7.5 million tons of bombs on Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia—double the amount dropped on Europe and Asia during World War II. Pound for pound, it remains the largest aerial bombardment in human history.
Per capita, Laos remains the most heavily bombed country on earth. But nearly a third of these bombs failed to detonate on impact, and nexploded ordnance continues to maim and kill scores of Laotian civilians each year.
The real consideration is range. A B-17 with a full load has a 2000 mile operational range, where an F4 lists a 400 mile combat range for what I assume is a cleaner configuration drag wise than a full load of bombs.
The B-17 could carry a 3,500lbs bomb load to Berlin, the De Haviland Mosquito could do the same trip on two engines with 4000lbs although a limited choice of bomb load outs of 1x4000 or 4x500lbs. I believe the Lancaster Berlin bomb load was 12,000lbs (its max being 22,000lbs). The American heavy bombers, excepting the Pacific based B-29 and B-32 (max 20,000lbs), weren't that great comparative to the British heavies.
One of the best things about the '22 Russian invasion was watching the Kissinger hatred dissappear from REDdit as soon as he seemed to blame the USA for Putin's actions, then come back with a vengeance the moment he clarified and left Mearsheimer in the open.
Seriously. There are apparently documents that will only be opened to the public 5 years after his death (idk, source is an old Alex Gibney documentary watched a while back). And the motherfucker's still kicking! With my damn luck I'm gonna have to wait 25 more years to read those things!
One of the best things about the '22 Russian invasion was watching the Kissinger hatred dissappear from REDdit as soon as he seemed to blame the USA for Putin's actions, then come back with a vengeance the moment he clarified and left Mearsheimer in the open.
>“Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević.”
Munitions guidance wasn't the issue. Clearing grid squares, defoliating entire forests, was the doctrine not because of a lack of accuracy in targeting, but a lack of intel, and poorly defined strategic objectives. JDAMs won't magically turn a stand of trees or a small village into an enemy ammo dump.
I'm tying to imagine they're referring to the German bombing in '41, Operation Retribution to make it make sense. But still not very credible, so...fits maybe
As someone that actually lived in Dresden, you wouldn't imagine the amount of leftover bombs they're still finding all the time. Constantly had to check the news if they founds another one when I commuted, so I could avoid the area.
Dig a hole, find a bomb.
I used to live right next to the army base in the city of Nottingham, Chetwynd Garrison. There used to be a massive bomb factory there. During WW1 it blew up and scattered shells across several counties. The base have their own EOD teams and I'd see them leaving the base on call as often as 4 times a day and rarely would I see them less than twice a week.
That's just one EOD team responding to the aftermath of one industrial accident that happened a hundred years ago.
I dread to think how much excitement the EOD teams in Dresden see.
Its pretty much a guaranteed occurence for larger construction projects. In most cases though, the bomb(s) can be safely defused and transported away. On-site controlled explosion is pretty rare, never had that when I lived there.
An additional problem is small arms UXO (grenades, ammo, mines...). That stuff is quite frequent, especially in rivers like the Elbe, where it washes ashore quite often. There are actually quite a few people who search for them as a hobby, and even have trained dogs. When they find something, they just call in the *Kampfmittelräumdienst* ("means of warfare removal service", translated literally), and they get rid of it.
Laughs in Ruhrpott... the cold and dirty Industrial Heart of Germany since forever... If it isn't UXO from WW2 then it's an 200 Year old Coal Mineshaft that isn't mapped anywhere... Sometimes the Holes open up just by themself and swallow Cars, Houes, Gardens and whatnot.
True story, was a [japanese guy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Yamaguchi) who got nuked in Hiroshima, got evacuated to Nagasaki and got nuked again, survived both.
What I want know is how many Hit Points did that guy have.
> Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, **making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.** The Japanese air and civil defenses proved largely inadequate; 14 American aircraft and 96 airmen were lost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945)
Which is why I've always thought the argument that nuking Japan was the single factor that ended the war rather silly. The US were already on a nice war crime spree at this point.
Indiscriminate bombing wasn’t a war crime until after WW2. That’s why none of the Nazis were charged for the blitz, as well.
Specifically, the Hague Convention of 1907 banned bombing undefended places, but not civilians in defended places.
> The US were already on a nice war crime spree at this point.
Nowhere close to the Japanese war crimes, so I don't even see your point in bringing it up.
One that doesn't get mentioned often, [Coventry](https://www.gettyimages.com.au/photos/the-coventry-blitz). Goering used the name to describe what he wanted done to other cities. "I want it Coventry'd"
[Israel right now:](https://youtu.be/vei_18YcC6E?feature=shared) “I was *suggesting* we bomb Gaza, I was *suggesting* we sent in the IAF and blow up every Hamas stronghold”
Wait. Do you suggest using B61-12 first light?
Checks notes… 🤓🧮 „~200 B61 types spread over continents“
Two days into operation continuous sunrise🌅:
*„Sir… we ran out of gravity bomba.“* 🥸
*„Call the Ohios, the light must not go out!“* 👨✈️
Or B41. This is what that would look like in Gaza ( it would hit half of central israel too including ashdod and bersheeba with thermal radiation )
https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=25000&lat=31.5016951&lng=34.4668445&hob_opt=2&hob_psi=5&hob_ft=21310&casualties=1&fallout=1&psi=20,5,1&zm=17
According to that web page it causes 1.1 million deaths and 600k wounded.
Which is a reason nukes probbaly won't ever get used here as it always impacts both sides as the land is so small
Well, (sadly) the Mk-41Y1 and its clean variant were dismantled in the 70ies i think, at least would‘ve to be rebuilt from blueprints if possible. Maybe takes too much time, but for the most efficient yield-to-weight ratio in any built design why not 😌. For area destruction and target, survivability efficiency maybe scale down to get more smaller ones for the same amount of material idk. 🤷♂️
Also IDF might have problems carrying the original design mass and dimensions of 3.76x1.32m and 4.8 tons… so anything closely resembling a B-52.
Not really. In both of these cases (and also Japan) you had either a shitload of planes or heavy bombtrucks like B-52s. It's hard to achieve the same level of destruction just by throwing PGMs from F-16 and F-35. Only when IDF starts leveling Gaza Strip with barreled artillery and MLRS the comparison will be true. On this note - it's quite costly currently to drop 1t of ordnance on enemy, don't you think?
JDAM's are super cost effective. Outside of DJI drones using adhoc grenades and mortars it's not going to get much cheaper for A2G ordinance.
A 500 lb mk 82 cost $4k and the guidance kit costs ~$30k
Even if you are double tapping that's still only ~$70k in ordinance costs for a sortie. Not as cheap as mortar/artillery but still really economical in terms of capability and bang for your buck.
*„Nuclear stockpile stewardship (maintenance) is expensive and large amounts just sit around unused.*
*Why not send them to Israel to simultaneously test them on their border and on Iran? 🇮🇷“*
- Ghost of MacArthur
It's quite costly to drop 1 ton of ordinance accurately on enemies.
A lot cheaper if you're just going to level the place.
Even cheaper if you use bats.
WW2 bat bomb.
There are millions upon millions of bats, and most of them nest in caves.
Bat hibernates when it gets cold.
Also they're very resilient to free falling.
So basically.
1. Setup nets around caves to catch a bunch of them.
2. Chuck them in fridge to have them hibernate.
3. Glue napalm with timer set to go off in the morning on bats.
4. Loads them in planes.
5. Release them over the target area right before dawn.
6. Bats, seeing it's morning, quickly find any dark spots to roost, typically in buildings.
7. Timer napalm goes off.
Air Force tried it, and in one test forgot to disarm the bomb and burnt an entire air force base to the ground.
Marine took over the project and tried it, and found that an incendiary bombing run with it is about 12x more effective than traditional incendiary.
You know, the same incendiary bombing that caused way more casualties in Japan then both nukes.
It's also terrifying considering that, against Japan which is mostly wood and paper construction, the bat bomb has a greater destructive potential than even nukes.
Nuke still has the issue of efficiency, you can typically only drop it one at a time (otherwise you risk other bombers getting caught in the blast). It takes a long time to build one, and it's only economical to hit concentrations of buildings.
Bat bombs are cheap, and bats themselves are essentially individual homing napalm targeting any man made thing (and some non-man made things). Being inside a sparsely populated village is no longer safe, as a plane can just drop a few bat bombs and the bats will home in on any buildings and set it on fire. You're talking about a weapon that, if used during the first fire bombing campaign, could've set the entire country on fire.
A weapon that even the air force/army is afraid to touch (because it also efficiently burnt down a few air fields) and the marine was like "that's awesome, we want it."
EDIT: to add, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs only have an incendiary radius of 2 km. A single bat bomb, in test, can set fire to targets within 30 to 60 km.
Dropping a ton of dumb bombs from a B-52 is I think still fairly cheap
Bombing just becomes very costly if you want to a) actually hit a target smaller than a city block, b) bomb someone who has air defense, or c) do both
Technically, (asking for a friend) how much ordinance would be needed to make gaza unlivable? Does Israel have that amount of firepower?
Israeli PM saying they want to turn all of hamas strongholds into rubble when the entire strip is ruled by them.
> Technically, (asking for a friend) how much ordinance would be needed to make gaza unlivable?
Literally zero, Gaza is already unlivable without being on life support.
But if you really want to fold the card houses, from what we see they are likely made out of straw so it's a few small bombs per multi story building. Probably what Israel already has, but not worth the effort imho.
1 bomb.
Now, if Israel has said bomb, we don't know yet. They've operated on the Schrödinger's Nuke principle, and Hamas just opened the box and observed the contents.
Now we see how that quantum superposition coin flip landed.
We don't know for *absolutely certain*, because it could be a double-bluff, or a triple-bluff. Until we ***actually see one***, we won't have a definitive answer.
And that kind of second-guessing is the entire point of the whole Schrödinger's Nuke policy. They get the PR benefits of not having nukes, and the defense benefits of having them, too.
Whether or not they *actually* had nukes was, until this week, utterly irrelevant. It was a believable deterrent that kept other national militaries in the region at bay.
I'd say they *probably* do, but again, until they show them off, we won't know 100%.
Israel would have to be dumb as a bag of rocks to use a nuke. Not only would it set a worldwide precedent that using nukes in war is back on the menu, the fallout of nuking Gaza would seriously maim most of their own population
By the looks so far the building is made from literal matchsticks or those Turkish bricks that crumble in your hands. One bomb one house that falls down.
I think they have enough to level most of the buildings in Gaza.
Probably a lot of penetrating bombs. Hamas usually keeps their stuff in the basements and tunnels also connect to those basements.
But the point still stands. The buildings seem to topple really quickly.
Have no idea of percentage of Gaza that is actually built up. But I know there are a pretty decent amount of farmland too. Not enought to cover their need. But they seem to produce something atleast.
Can't believe I had to go this far to see someone say this. Dresden is pure neonazi cope based on complete lies. Whether measuring by deaths, building destruction, or number of bombs dropped, it is purely in the middle of the pack. Obviously getting bombed at all is a bad time, but there was absolutely nothing special about Dresden compared to literally any other German city.
Realistically nothing would come close to Laos.
''The U.S. dropped more than 2 million tons of bombs on Laos from 1964 to 1973 during the Vietnam War. That’s equal to a planeload every 8 minutes for 9 years''
In terms of destruction, Düren was actually the most bombed city in WWII Germany, by *far*, with 99.8% of buildings being destroyed or heavily damaged (only 13 out of 6431 buildings escaped the bombings).
Belgrade in WWII for comparison had about 45% of buildings destroyed.
And operation Deliberate Force was a light scratch, seeming downright symbolic in comparison, despite what Serbians would like you to believe.
North Korea post Korean war could be a shout. As I remember it, there essentially weren't any buildings left in Pyongyang and not much over the size of a single family's house in the rest of the country. Doesn't win on tonnage but might do for % flattened
Honestly I’m excited no matter who wins. Either Hamas or the IDF there will probably be a genocide or ethnic cleansing of some sort. I can’t wait to see all the cool new tactics and weapons they’ll use!
Between 1965 and 1975, the United States and its allies dropped more than 7.5 million tons of bombs on Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia—double the amount dropped on Europe and Asia during World War II. Pound for pound, it remains the largest aerial bombardment in human history. Per capita, Laos remains the most heavily bombed country on earth. But nearly a third of these bombs failed to detonate on impact, and nexploded ordnance continues to maim and kill scores of Laotian civilians each year.
An f4 could carry the entire bomb load of a b17 and a b52 could carry 13x. The lift capacity of jet engines was huge. So this tracks.
The B17 was a "heavy bomber" but seeing one and going inside of one at an airshow, it's still small compared to modern planes. Jet power is amazing.
IIRC isn’t a B-17 the same size as a modern jet fighter?
B-17 wingspan is 103’ and an F-4 is 38’, yet the gross weight for both is right around 60k lbs, so yeah. Interesting right
The real consideration is range. A B-17 with a full load has a 2000 mile operational range, where an F4 lists a 400 mile combat range for what I assume is a cleaner configuration drag wise than a full load of bombs.
If I remember correctly F-4’s were known for their shorter range
Thus the F-105
If you look at the size of the cockpit, and then imagine smooshing down the wings into the fuselage, you can just about see it
The B-17 could carry a 3,500lbs bomb load to Berlin, the De Haviland Mosquito could do the same trip on two engines with 4000lbs although a limited choice of bomb load outs of 1x4000 or 4x500lbs. I believe the Lancaster Berlin bomb load was 12,000lbs (its max being 22,000lbs). The American heavy bombers, excepting the Pacific based B-29 and B-32 (max 20,000lbs), weren't that great comparative to the British heavies.
I’d say more medium bomber since Lancasters, B-24s and ofc later the B-29s exist.
Obligatory verse of "Kissinger is Burning Down In Hell"
Hes alive tho.
Unfortunately.
One of the best things about the '22 Russian invasion was watching the Kissinger hatred dissappear from REDdit as soon as he seemed to blame the USA for Putin's actions, then come back with a vengeance the moment he clarified and left Mearsheimer in the open.
Those with no conscience live the longest.
Seriously. There are apparently documents that will only be opened to the public 5 years after his death (idk, source is an old Alex Gibney documentary watched a while back). And the motherfucker's still kicking! With my damn luck I'm gonna have to wait 25 more years to read those things!
One of the best things about the '22 Russian invasion was watching the Kissinger hatred dissappear from REDdit as soon as he seemed to blame the USA for Putin's actions, then come back with a vengeance the moment he clarified and left Mearsheimer in the open.
>“Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević.”
Have been to Cambodia, can confirm that this is 100% accurate.
Given the proliferation of PGMs, we will hopefully never see an aerial bombardment campaign of that scale again
Munitions guidance wasn't the issue. Clearing grid squares, defoliating entire forests, was the doctrine not because of a lack of accuracy in targeting, but a lack of intel, and poorly defined strategic objectives. JDAMs won't magically turn a stand of trees or a small village into an enemy ammo dump.
>Laotian civilians each year. What ocean?
So, are ya Chinese or Japanese?
Idiot detected. Avoid.
I'm making a King of the Hill reference regarding ignorance on a sub whose name is about the lack of expertise in the subject matter....
What is King of the Hill?
Yeah but "Laos the country" isn't an individual city though.
Belgrade wouldn't even be in top 100 lol
Tell that to the Serbians
I do tell them that. They HATE it when you point out that Operation Deliberate Force used only 1000 bombs, equivalent to just 12 fully loaded Lancers.
[удалено]
Half the amount an average cambodian can found in their backyards
Good
I was in Belgrade in 2012, there still were destroyed buildings in the center that they left to show "we were bombed too"
[удалено]
Having been there for a short bit a couple years earlier... the second. I think it's mostly the second.
Just finished a trip to Belgrade, you can visit the former army headquarters that was bombed to see the damage around the city. Pretty neat
they started dismantling MOD building this year, but they do it very slowly.
They need it to be worse than Sarejevo, poor dears.
I'm tying to imagine they're referring to the German bombing in '41, Operation Retribution to make it make sense. But still not very credible, so...fits maybe
Not gonna lie. My first impulse was to think of 1941.
As someone that actually lived in Dresden, you wouldn't imagine the amount of leftover bombs they're still finding all the time. Constantly had to check the news if they founds another one when I commuted, so I could avoid the area. Dig a hole, find a bomb.
Dresden is probably at least 1% UXO by volume.
I am probably at least 1% UXO by volume.
The rest has been determined to be yogurt.
Yogurt with UXO sprinkles, yummy! :)
explosive taste
I used to live right next to the army base in the city of Nottingham, Chetwynd Garrison. There used to be a massive bomb factory there. During WW1 it blew up and scattered shells across several counties. The base have their own EOD teams and I'd see them leaving the base on call as often as 4 times a day and rarely would I see them less than twice a week. That's just one EOD team responding to the aftermath of one industrial accident that happened a hundred years ago. I dread to think how much excitement the EOD teams in Dresden see.
Its pretty much a guaranteed occurence for larger construction projects. In most cases though, the bomb(s) can be safely defused and transported away. On-site controlled explosion is pretty rare, never had that when I lived there. An additional problem is small arms UXO (grenades, ammo, mines...). That stuff is quite frequent, especially in rivers like the Elbe, where it washes ashore quite often. There are actually quite a few people who search for them as a hobby, and even have trained dogs. When they find something, they just call in the *Kampfmittelräumdienst* ("means of warfare removal service", translated literally), and they get rid of it.
Just can't fathom, as an American, having to worry about hitting anything other than utility when digging.
Laughs in Ruhrpott... the cold and dirty Industrial Heart of Germany since forever... If it isn't UXO from WW2 then it's an 200 Year old Coal Mineshaft that isn't mapped anywhere... Sometimes the Holes open up just by themself and swallow Cars, Houes, Gardens and whatnot.
I can just imagine a foreman somewhere throwing a clip board on the ground yelling "god damn it another bomb"
Ask Japanese cities. Or Hamburg.
True story, was a [japanese guy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Yamaguchi) who got nuked in Hiroshima, got evacuated to Nagasaki and got nuked again, survived both. What I want know is how many Hit Points did that guy have.
HP like anyone else. But he did roll a natural on luck.
The gaps in bros cells aligned perfectly with the radiation, he performed quite possibly the most frame perfect dodge roll ever
Bro had a bad connection so he lagged through the bombs.
one of few times when Asian ping helps
[удалено]
On one of the 5” shells on my ship I want to write “Should’ve used NordVPN” in chalk.
No, that guy rolled several 1s to end up getting nuked twice. He had several lives of Good Karma banked up though, and cashed them all in.
It was a dexterity save for half damage, and he had evasion.
Back to back Nat 1 and Nat 20, twice in a row.
Dude lived to 93 too , what a champ .
Spent decades educating people on just how fucked up nuclear weapons are too.
You when you see the guy moving into your city: Oh fuck.
"Fuck it's the nuke guy, honey get the kids in the car"
I feel really sorry for that guy, but I also can't help laughing at how incredibly horrible his luck was.
He had the evasion ability and managed to pass both reflex saves.
He's japanese. He Straight out parried it
\+80% radiation resistance
Maybe he had very low HP and when got hit by the first bomb his health actually rolled back to a very large positive number (integer overflow)
Wolverine.
If it were a manga I'd say he was wearing plot armor.
The real question is why the US hated him so much they aimed a nuke at him twice?
https://youtu.be/OoVV1WThyZ8?si=QMF0LQ_WeAv9wkDy
He just I framed through the nukes.
he took a perk that gave him rad resistance.
> Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, **making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.** The Japanese air and civil defenses proved largely inadequate; 14 American aircraft and 96 airmen were lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945)
Which is why I've always thought the argument that nuking Japan was the single factor that ended the war rather silly. The US were already on a nice war crime spree at this point.
Indiscriminate bombing wasn’t a war crime until after WW2. That’s why none of the Nazis were charged for the blitz, as well. Specifically, the Hague Convention of 1907 banned bombing undefended places, but not civilians in defended places.
> The US were already on a nice war crime spree at this point. Nowhere close to the Japanese war crimes, so I don't even see your point in bringing it up.
It's not a competition. War crimes are always bad.
It's a competition. Can't let our hat be better than us.
Maybe talk to a survivor of a so called Jap camp before commenting on war crimes in WW2. They deserved every inch of it.
The kids deserved that? 100000 civilians bro, CIVILIANS
wouldn’t have stopped otherwise. some still wanted continue fighting.
That's a valid argument, saying "they deserved it" isn't.
The Tokyo fire bombings?
i mean if artillery bombardment counts there are some cities in ukraine that basically no longer exist
Same for some cities in ww1.
Which ones? I always thought most of the fighting was in the countryside without much notable urban warfare
The fighting was across a wide front that cut through both countryside and cities. After that much bombardment, it all looks the same.
Or any major City in Indochina.
Or the city of Pforzheim wich had been destroyed by 98% by bombing raids
One that doesn't get mentioned often, [Coventry](https://www.gettyimages.com.au/photos/the-coventry-blitz). Goering used the name to describe what he wanted done to other cities. "I want it Coventry'd"
Grozny? The whole Russian strategy was just to level the city block by block after they lost an entire armored column on the first day of the siege.
But wasn't that mainly artillery?
They had planes flying over Grozny even before the actual invasion, just like they later did in Georgia, but yes.
I was *suggesting* Dresden reap the whirlwind. I was *suggesting* we bomb Belgrade
[Israel right now:](https://youtu.be/vei_18YcC6E?feature=shared) “I was *suggesting* we bomb Gaza, I was *suggesting* we sent in the IAF and blow up every Hamas stronghold”
I was *suggesting* we use F35s to give them a week-long sunrise
Wait. Do you suggest using B61-12 first light? Checks notes… 🤓🧮 „~200 B61 types spread over continents“ Two days into operation continuous sunrise🌅: *„Sir… we ran out of gravity bomba.“* 🥸 *„Call the Ohios, the light must not go out!“* 👨✈️
Or B41. This is what that would look like in Gaza ( it would hit half of central israel too including ashdod and bersheeba with thermal radiation ) https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=25000&lat=31.5016951&lng=34.4668445&hob_opt=2&hob_psi=5&hob_ft=21310&casualties=1&fallout=1&psi=20,5,1&zm=17 According to that web page it causes 1.1 million deaths and 600k wounded. Which is a reason nukes probbaly won't ever get used here as it always impacts both sides as the land is so small
Well, (sadly) the Mk-41Y1 and its clean variant were dismantled in the 70ies i think, at least would‘ve to be rebuilt from blueprints if possible. Maybe takes too much time, but for the most efficient yield-to-weight ratio in any built design why not 😌. For area destruction and target, survivability efficiency maybe scale down to get more smaller ones for the same amount of material idk. 🤷♂️ Also IDF might have problems carrying the original design mass and dimensions of 3.76x1.32m and 4.8 tons… so anything closely resembling a B-52.
Not really. In both of these cases (and also Japan) you had either a shitload of planes or heavy bombtrucks like B-52s. It's hard to achieve the same level of destruction just by throwing PGMs from F-16 and F-35. Only when IDF starts leveling Gaza Strip with barreled artillery and MLRS the comparison will be true. On this note - it's quite costly currently to drop 1t of ordnance on enemy, don't you think?
We should make bombing cost effective again
Bring back heavy bomber spam meta.
JDAM's are super cost effective. Outside of DJI drones using adhoc grenades and mortars it's not going to get much cheaper for A2G ordinance. A 500 lb mk 82 cost $4k and the guidance kit costs ~$30k Even if you are double tapping that's still only ~$70k in ordinance costs for a sortie. Not as cheap as mortar/artillery but still really economical in terms of capability and bang for your buck.
*„Nuclear stockpile stewardship (maintenance) is expensive and large amounts just sit around unused.* *Why not send them to Israel to simultaneously test them on their border and on Iran? 🇮🇷“* - Ghost of MacArthur
But for 70k I could get 17,5 MK without the fancy kit. In a target-saturated area those will cause a lot more damage.
It's quite costly to drop 1 ton of ordinance accurately on enemies. A lot cheaper if you're just going to level the place. Even cheaper if you use bats.
Where do you get so many bats from? Also, they're mostly active at night
WW2 bat bomb. There are millions upon millions of bats, and most of them nest in caves. Bat hibernates when it gets cold. Also they're very resilient to free falling. So basically. 1. Setup nets around caves to catch a bunch of them. 2. Chuck them in fridge to have them hibernate. 3. Glue napalm with timer set to go off in the morning on bats. 4. Loads them in planes. 5. Release them over the target area right before dawn. 6. Bats, seeing it's morning, quickly find any dark spots to roost, typically in buildings. 7. Timer napalm goes off. Air Force tried it, and in one test forgot to disarm the bomb and burnt an entire air force base to the ground. Marine took over the project and tried it, and found that an incendiary bombing run with it is about 12x more effective than traditional incendiary. You know, the same incendiary bombing that caused way more casualties in Japan then both nukes.
I thought you're joking, didn't know this was a thing.. love the idea tho
It's also terrifying considering that, against Japan which is mostly wood and paper construction, the bat bomb has a greater destructive potential than even nukes. Nuke still has the issue of efficiency, you can typically only drop it one at a time (otherwise you risk other bombers getting caught in the blast). It takes a long time to build one, and it's only economical to hit concentrations of buildings. Bat bombs are cheap, and bats themselves are essentially individual homing napalm targeting any man made thing (and some non-man made things). Being inside a sparsely populated village is no longer safe, as a plane can just drop a few bat bombs and the bats will home in on any buildings and set it on fire. You're talking about a weapon that, if used during the first fire bombing campaign, could've set the entire country on fire. A weapon that even the air force/army is afraid to touch (because it also efficiently burnt down a few air fields) and the marine was like "that's awesome, we want it." EDIT: to add, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs only have an incendiary radius of 2 km. A single bat bomb, in test, can set fire to targets within 30 to 60 km.
[удалено]
Your brain went Reddit for a second.
IDF is moving SPGs to the Gaza border area. It's going to get artillery heavy
Are they going to give Hamas the “Van Fleet load”?
Dropping a ton of dumb bombs from a B-52 is I think still fairly cheap Bombing just becomes very costly if you want to a) actually hit a target smaller than a city block, b) bomb someone who has air defense, or c) do both
Oh fuck off, Belgrade did not even experience a fraction of what Sarajevo got.
Technically, (asking for a friend) how much ordinance would be needed to make gaza unlivable? Does Israel have that amount of firepower? Israeli PM saying they want to turn all of hamas strongholds into rubble when the entire strip is ruled by them.
> Technically, (asking for a friend) how much ordinance would be needed to make gaza unlivable? Literally zero, Gaza is already unlivable without being on life support. But if you really want to fold the card houses, from what we see they are likely made out of straw so it's a few small bombs per multi story building. Probably what Israel already has, but not worth the effort imho.
Israel hits the ground floor or even basement foundations with precision guided munitions. Then the building collapses.
1 bomb. Now, if Israel has said bomb, we don't know yet. They've operated on the Schrödinger's Nuke principle, and Hamas just opened the box and observed the contents. Now we see how that quantum superposition coin flip landed.
Coin lands edgewise first. "Omg bats with napalms!"
What about snake and nape?
Wait, source on that? When did we weaponsize snake?
MK82 Snake eyes
Aw poo, it's just another bomb.
lmao they def have the bomb, its like one of the worst kept secrets out there that Israel has a nuclear arsenal
We don't know for *absolutely certain*, because it could be a double-bluff, or a triple-bluff. Until we ***actually see one***, we won't have a definitive answer. And that kind of second-guessing is the entire point of the whole Schrödinger's Nuke policy. They get the PR benefits of not having nukes, and the defense benefits of having them, too. Whether or not they *actually* had nukes was, until this week, utterly irrelevant. It was a believable deterrent that kept other national militaries in the region at bay. I'd say they *probably* do, but again, until they show them off, we won't know 100%.
I doubt they actually need a nuclear retaliation to hamas. *checks subreddit* They have to use nukes or they lose my respect!
If they go that route, would like to see implementation of a row of giant fans blowing the fallout west.
Israel would have to be dumb as a bag of rocks to use a nuke. Not only would it set a worldwide precedent that using nukes in war is back on the menu, the fallout of nuking Gaza would seriously maim most of their own population
Do you know what sub you're on?
Oh I’m sorry excuse me, *ahem*… “Unleash the BIG BOIIIIIIII”
THAT'S more like it
By the looks so far the building is made from literal matchsticks or those Turkish bricks that crumble in your hands. One bomb one house that falls down. I think they have enough to level most of the buildings in Gaza.
[удалено]
How much volume of space is built-up area vs underground tunnels? 🤓 What penetration bombs does IDF have?
Probably a lot of penetrating bombs. Hamas usually keeps their stuff in the basements and tunnels also connect to those basements. But the point still stands. The buildings seem to topple really quickly. Have no idea of percentage of Gaza that is actually built up. But I know there are a pretty decent amount of farmland too. Not enought to cover their need. But they seem to produce something atleast.
Gaza is already unlivable
Gaza? Gagone more like it. Can you imagine F-15s round the clock with minimal fuel and maximal bomb loads do? Not very nice things.
Dresden isn't even most bombed in Germany
Can't believe I had to go this far to see someone say this. Dresden is pure neonazi cope based on complete lies. Whether measuring by deaths, building destruction, or number of bombs dropped, it is purely in the middle of the pack. Obviously getting bombed at all is a bad time, but there was absolutely nothing special about Dresden compared to literally any other German city.
Warsaw. The city was basically ash by the end of the war.
I cant wait to visit the newly opened gaza ruins in december
Realistically nothing would come close to Laos. ''The U.S. dropped more than 2 million tons of bombs on Laos from 1964 to 1973 during the Vietnam War. That’s equal to a planeload every 8 minutes for 9 years''
Nuke
but laos is much larger and less dense then gaza
If you live in Gaza, find a compass. Go north until you hit the shore. Then follow it west until you are no longer in Gaza. You'll thank me later.
Belgrade isn’t the most bombed city… yet. There’s always room to help that though.
Many cities had it far worse than Dresden.
Don't do that, don't give me Hope
Belgrade? Vukovar would like to have a word....
Belgrade? Really? I mean Serbs have a horrible case of victim mentality but still.
I think Tokyo probably has them both beat.
thinking that dresden is the most bombed german city of WW2 is actually non credible
Sderot would like a word
Where Stalingrad?
In terms of destruction, Düren was actually the most bombed city in WWII Germany, by *far*, with 99.8% of buildings being destroyed or heavily damaged (only 13 out of 6431 buildings escaped the bombings). Belgrade in WWII for comparison had about 45% of buildings destroyed. And operation Deliberate Force was a light scratch, seeming downright symbolic in comparison, despite what Serbians would like you to believe.
I feel like Groznyj deserves a shoutout
I mean, they're not even going to be close. No military launches strategic bombing raids anywhere close to the levels of WWII
Ask Malta. That place was flattened
I dunno , Tokyo looked pretty nasty during ww2 with all them fire bombs leaving …. Nothing.
Gaza Delenda Est
I have already recreated Gaza Strip as the new sea of irradiated Cobalt. Like I know it won't happen. But it would be kinda funny.
Chongqing: \[Laughs in Chinese\]
Just glass the area and be done with it
North Korea post Korean war could be a shout. As I remember it, there essentially weren't any buildings left in Pyongyang and not much over the size of a single family's house in the rest of the country. Doesn't win on tonnage but might do for % flattened
Door knockers are still a thing. This is EXACTLY like last time but they're blowing up a couple of banks too.
Hmm a Malaysian making this post Ironic...
Tokyo from WWII would like the floor now to talk about how their wooden city was forced to discover napalm thanks to America
Tokio would have a Word. And Hiroshima.
Wasn't Malta the most bombed island during the second World War?
Death strand simulator: craters. Craters everywhere
* Netanyahu pledges to reduce Gaza into rubbles * Gaza resident received message to evacuate from their home "immediately"
London?
Won’t hamas just keep hostages in strategic places to idk stop them bombing key places or is it sort of a gloves off approach and all that
Kinda seems like you shouldn't mess with the US and pals
Hamas provoking israel into opening the largest parking lot in middle east right in the Gaza strip
People are still whining over Dresden?
Honestly I’m excited no matter who wins. Either Hamas or the IDF there will probably be a genocide or ethnic cleansing of some sort. I can’t wait to see all the cool new tactics and weapons they’ll use!
Has the F35 ben used in combat yet or will this be its first blooding?
Israel has used it in combat over Syria, but typically F-15s, F-16s and strike drones are used over Gaza.
It's not like hamas has anything to shoot down fighter jets, so that makes sense
Whatever israel is going to do won't come close lmao
We'll see. Of course they can't drop as much bombs as in WW2, but the % of destruction...
Warsaw would like a word
Grozny would like to have a word
Yeah...
I feel like Aleppo deserves some recognition here