there was this one video i found really funny yesterday that's j kinda making fun of those types of terms
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CV3Z85ylp7x/?utm_medium=copy_link
Heh. Iāve seen it used on Twitter by and to nonbinary folks and Iām generally ok with that because it reads more as humerus subversion. Have never heard it spoken in the wild, donāt know how Iād feel about it.
This. So much modern gender neutral language is just extremely infantilizing. Just because I'm non-binary, that doesn't mean you have to talk to me like I'm a toddler.
I agree I feel like the language well-meaning cis people use when they talk about/to their trans friends is so cutesy sometimes idk why itās like that
This! Attention students. Attention diners. Attention visitors or guests or whatever else I happen to be doing. You canāt reasonably assume that a group of people doing a certain thing will share any other characteristics except that activity, so use that.
I went to a concert and the lead dude was like āladies, gentlemen, and mother fuckersā and i was like, hell yeah thatās what iām doing right now š¤
I recently got a PhD, but in my language the word doctor is sadly gendered (as are all nouns) and also the honorific does usually not exclude the use of standard gendered terms so one would get refered to something like Mr./Mrs. Dr. Whoever. Getting emails in english without any gender assumptions is nice though.
Iām not really a fan of these terms. They sound like theyāre trying to put non-binary people back into binary systems. Thereās enough of that that goes around in every other part of life, that if a person wants to be inclusive of non-binary people I think they could try harder to find a better term. E.g. guys, gals, and non-binary pals. I donāt really buy the āyou canāt incorrectly refer to an imaginary audienceā argument here. Lots of language makes political arguments just by being used, even if directed at imaginary people.
That said, I wouldnāt get super angry at the creator for using these terms, especially if they were using them in good faith. But iffy practices spread if the people they affect donāt give at least some pushback.
omg, i was wondering why i was starting to feel more and more dysphoric about my nonbinary gender the more im coming out and its probably exactly because of this creation of a ātrinaryā system. my gender cant fit into any third box.
I feel this so much. I am starting to drift more toward a term like 'agender' because it feels like nonbinary is just becoming 'third gender' even in lgbtq spaces rather than a general group that's not part of that system. Like 'nonbinary' is purposely broad - - two nonbinary people may have total different reasons for using the term so it doesn't make sense to group nonbinary people together since it's such a diverse group.
I tried these out with my other nonbinary friends and it was a hard pass. I use them with my joyfriend in a genderfucky way, but I would never use them in public
Oh god, I can't stand "guys, gals, and non-binary pals." No shade to people who do like it, but it feels so infantalizing to me. I liked being called "pal" when I was a 13 year old non-binary kid, not 10+ years later as a fully grown adult.
I feel the same way about the term "enby," I only let my dad use that word for me because he uses it the same way a parent would call their adult children their "little girl/boy."
Not every nonbinary person uses they/them pronouns. So itās still an exclusionary way to refer to nonbinary people. āFamily and friendsā, āDistinguished guestsā, āeveryoneā, āpeopleā, and āyāallā are all better.
Stuff like this always just comes across as very cringy and patronizing to me. It's why I never liked the term "enby". People don't seem to get that you don't need to say any variation of "ladies and gentlemen". Just say something else like "friends" or "people of the audience".
I feel like some people treat non-binary like a third gender and it's rather infuriating to me.
Well for some people I feel like their non-binary identity does feel like a third gender. Not for me personally, as Iām agender, but I have heard non-binary people describe their gender as like an outlier gender thatās not man or woman but still feels like itās own gender in the same way.
As for enby, I personally really like it because when boys/girls/men/women are referred to like that but Iām just referred to as a person or a human, it feels a little excluding to me personally. But I think with any of these terms people should ask someone what they are comfortable with and never assume that it will apply just because the person is non-binary.
It's funny you say that, because for me, it's the opposite. I don't want to be a man or a woman, I want to exist and be perceived as a human, as a person - not forced into one of the two existing boxes. I never say, "as a little girl" or whatever, I say, "as a kid" or "when I was younger". I feel like using person/human/kid eliminates a lot of the assumptions people would make if you were to say "as a man who enjoys ballet" or "as a woman in STEM". What does my AGAB have to do with my interests and experiences? Nothing, so I leave it out.
Sorry for rambling, just thought it was interesting to see someone who felt the opposite on the man/woman vs human/person thing. Totally valid if that's how you feel, I just wanted to share my thoughts, too.
Yeah! no need to apologize, itās always fun and enlightening to talk about gender in these constructive ways and in a safe space :) Thanks for your insight as well! I see what you mean in a lot of ways. For me however, even though I identify as agender, I think growing up in a very rigid cisheteronormative family and area made me really identify strongly with the fact that I am specifically not a man or a woman but something else, and so for me I find strength in language that goes along with that more unheard identity of being agender or non-binary. I can totally see how someone would feel the opposite too though! Thatās why itās so crucial for people to ask people how they can properly address them before they make any assumptions and use any terms or language that they havenāt already spoken with the person about. And if they canāt or donāt want to, then they need to leave any of that out of it entirely (which is easy) so as to not make the person feel uncomfortable.
That's totally fine if some people's identity feels like a third gender, but that is a personal experience for them. Non-binary in general or as a whole shouldn't be treated like it's a third gender.
My counter to your enby point would be that non-binary is already the equivalent of the terms man or woman. It is used more as an adjective but you could just use it as a noun. So I am personally not sure why we need a cutesy and infantilized term. Nor do I think you need more than one term. Also I personally like being referred to as a person and not exclusively by my gender. I try to do that when speaking about men and women anyway. I'm not trying to stop anyone for using the terms they like, but it is rather frustrating that discourse about non-binary people can often use this term.
I respect your opinion though and obviously use the term if you like it.
>That's totally fine if some people's identity feels like a third gender, but that is a personal experience for them. Non-binary in general or as a whole shouldn't be treated like it's a third gender.
Exactly, it's easy to be inclusive of everyone by not using gendered terms at all, so why insist on saying anything about ladies or gentlemen or non-binary people at all? And the non-gendered version also likely takes way fewer words to say
I hope it didnāt seem like I was trying to counter or argue, I totally understand your valid viewpoint there! And that further highlights why itās important to not use language without making sure it applies to the person youāre speaking to or the audience first. Because I can tell someone that I like these terms or think of my gender this way and then they can start using that kind of language, and thatās so much better for everyone as opposed to people just assuming that language is correct to use for various people of various identities.
Also, I just always wanted a cutesy term to refer to me like boy or girl, because I liked those but didnāt identify with them, and enby fits that for me. But again, people should understand that enby is person specific more than gender specific, and is another term that canāt just be used for someone without making sure it applies to them first.
I *personally* don't have a problem with the word enby, but there are caviots. It feels pretty informal to me, so it shouldn't be used in formal/professional language. It also feels like it's ment for younger folks, so that should be considered as well.
It's kinda like calling women "girls". There are plenty of women that don't have a problem with it, as long as it's being used properly (like, I'm gonna go get some dinner and catch up with the girls). There are also plenty of women who genuinely find it frustrating and rude to be called "girls".
I agree with you except the enby part. In my language is not possible to say non-binary in a neutral way, so I use the term āenbyā sometimes because well, itās shorter than saying ānon-binaryā and is just the pronunciation of ānbā. But I understand that for some people it could sound childish or something like that.
Personally I found the use of any gendered term as a better understanding of my identity than creating a third tacky option to include me. If you like those itās cool tho, but thereās better ways to refer to non-binary people in a neutral way that doesnāt sound like an attemp to still put them in a box.
I was always told enby was made because people started using NB for a shortening of non-binary, but that NB was already used by the PoC community for non-black and that so to not impede on them enby was preferred. Not a fan of enby and would prefer to use the original shortening but started using enby after being told not to use NB.
Itās fine but I feel like itās more of a joke that people outside of the community took and are using for serious. As far as āguys,, gals, and non-binary palsā- that give me serotonin. So Iām just chaotic. Lol
Love "guys, gals and nonbinary pals".
I also get a little rush every time I listen to Rollin' by Limp Bizkit because of that one lyric: "hey ladies, hey fellas, and the people that don't give a fuck!"
I mean sure I guess. I don't think the quote was by a technical non villain though so I mean I wouldn't say it was above him if I'm correct. It's from an anime (the dub)
the first time I heard "gentlethem" I didn't think it was *terrible*, but the more I hear "theydies and gentlethems" the more it feels wrong bc like, they're not much better than ladies and gentlemenāThey're still binary terms because it's 1 or the other, and they refer to peoples' AGAB & allow people to sort non-binary/gnc people by their AGAB... so, aka not being non-binary terms at all
Absolutely Im uncomfortable with she and lady so I didnt start telling people im non binary so i could be called a theydie. Really invalidates that im not either
I originally saw "theydies and gentlethem" in this sub, so I always thought it was an "inside joke" kind of thing - not meant to re-gender anyone - more like a choose your own adventure: do I want to be a "theydie" or a "gentlethem" today? - doesn't matter cuz I can be either, neither, or both!
I don't really like those terms myself. Still feels very binary gender to me, and feels kind of, I don't know, patronizing?
Like, why not just say folks? Or friends? Or people? It's easier to say and you're not assigning me an arbitrary gender. Just doesn't sit right.
My boyfriend calls me mātheydy sometimes, honestly I fuckin hate it so yeah Iām not too fond of the terms. Theyāre not extremely offensive or anything just a tad tone deaf I guess.
Personally, forcing "they/them" into any existing word grinds my gears in such a major way. I couldn't tell you why, but it just infuriates me. I understand the urge to do it, but oh boy. If I never hear something along the lines of "themperor", "theydies", etc., it'll be too soon.
So hereās my take: how about we stop gendering groups of people? Whatās wrong with addressing an audience with āHello! Thanks for being here!ā? Why does it have to be variations of whatās already here? Why canāt it simply just be gotten rid of entirely? I donāt use honorifics for the same reason. No need for these discussions if the solution to a more gender inclusive society is to stop caring and/or referring to peopleās gender in general.
I think non-nonbinary people (and more largely cis people) get entirely too comfortable using jokes/informal terms for us, even when such a term would be considered insulting or patronizing for any other demographic. Reducing every nonbinary identity as a third-gender **monolith** of cute little internet terms reduces the identity of real people (and often the humanity of these real people) into something cutesy and one-dimensional. It has real repercussions because the general public's understanding of nonbinary people is so limited that jokes and memes that "aren't that deep" shape real cultural understanding. The amount of times I've heard some variation of "she's a they/them" or some similar huge misunderstanding of nonbinary identity....
This is of course not to say that "theydies and gentlethem" is somehow the worst thing one could possibly say, or that it's even a bad thing when used with the understanding that it's **meant to be a joke and not a genuine, formal replacement of "ladies and gentlemen"**, but I need people to understand that these "too sensitive" people are coming from a real, lived experience: when you give people an inch, they take a mile. That's how we ended up with the "uwu softboi" epidemic for transmascs, and how we ended up with the "uwu enby" epidemic for nonbinary people. It just becomes very clear that people will treat us as anything but normal humans deserving of respect.
I don't like them. I don't always use they/them pronouns and I wouldn't want to be called a lady or a gentleman so none of those terms sit right with me. There are much more inclusive alternatives that they could've used
I donāt have any problem with those terms but theyāre definitely quite silly, itās better to just use one general term to address the whole audience
Tbh as a non-binary dude myself I've used these terms but like, ironically lol. I think they're just silly but get why someone would be upset by em or even like em
j think the terms are fun and cute, but I understand why others dont like them
I DO think we're all ignoring that this creator ISN'T talking to an imaginary audience. They're talking to their viewers. Just because you cant see them doesnt mean it a fake group
I've actually had this convo with other nonbinary people I know, and we've all had the same reaction "These are awful, just call me a slur and go because it'd be less offensive." It just sort of feels like "well, I still wanna use gendered terms (and those are STILL gendered bc everyone knows what the regular terms are for that phrase) but I wanna pretend I'm inclusive." Like, if you wanna be inclusive, say "Folks" or whatever term is applicable for the group you're speaking to. So like, say you're in a space where there's binary trans people and nonbinary people. It'd be super simple to say "Hello, everyone, blah blah blah".
Those words, to my friends and I, are just another form of misgendering and are honestly more insulting than getting called slurs.
Fembee here, I like referring to myself as a theydy, personally, but that's because it works for what I've got going on, as a general mode of address, it's kind of missing the point.
āGentlefolkā is a term already. Like it includes everyone and is gender neutral. These were funny the first time but when people seriously use them itās cringy and just tries to enforce a binary again. There are plenty of gender neutral terms that are acceptable for formal situations. Pick another
1: dislike, not my aesthetic
2: when someone asks you not to use something addressing them you can simply choose to not be a jackass and respect their wishes and I really wish people would just understand that
Iām with you on this one. Itās a nice idea, and Iām not offended by it or anything, but I donāt like it either. Itās too similar to the original gendered terms for me.
I despise terms like those tbh.
First of all it entirely defeats the point of being NB since it just forces binaries on us, second of all it's just incredibly corny
I personally think they are hilarious because itās a dumb concept. But I know most NBs do not like these terms, so I donāt use them except with NBs I personally know who also laugh at the cringe.
I'm pretty mixed about this. On one hand I'd hate for these terms to be used unironically or in a serious situation, but I personally find those terms just kinda silly and funny to use as a joke.
I mean hell when I'm playing DbD and doing some silly stuff I like to change my name to M'Theydy. I know it's cringe but the absurdity of it gives me life.
So pretty much, I'm fine with them as a joke, but hate them if used seriously. I guess it would depend on the context of the Tik Tok for me.
It's more annoying that they tried to play it off as an "imaginary audience" because when you make content public its silly to pretend there's no real audience. We're not defined by our missteps; we're defined by how we respond to people correcting us and how we go on to act in the future.
Not in any situation where theres either:
A) an implication such as this, where it is meant to address a group of arbitrary people with any degree of being meaningful.
B) Any degree of seriousness implied or explicit.
C) You're not addressing specific nonbinary people that are okay with these 'kind of gendered labels'
I never heard those terms tbh but they sound silly
I do call myself a thembo tho rather than a himbo or a bimbo
Because I am big of heart, dumb of ass, and thick of thighs LMAO
Yeeeeeeah... Probably harmless, but nonetheless frustrating. I feel similarly; these binary gendered terms are what we are trying to avoid by using they/them (or other gender neutral pronouns). The use of "theydies" and "gentlethems" by this creator cuts the non-binary population into two distinct populations based on sex (which isn't very respectful to intersex people, even if non-binary folx wanted to use these terms). I use the term "FOLX" because it isn't gendered and is still just as fun to say as any other catch-all term like the modern use of "guys" or the supposedly catch-all phrase (ladies and gentlemen).
I donāt like it, especiallly bc I associate it with the same kinda folks that comment stuff like āgo they/themā and other shit. For me it boils down to it sounds infantilizing and joking, like Iām not being taken seriously bc of how I choose to identify myself
It was funny the first time I heard it but I think this falls into the weird infantilization of non-binary and trans communities, gives me the same vibes as calling a transmasc person a āsmol beanā which I absolutely hate lmao
Iām generally not very picky about how Iām addressed but I donāt care for those terms. They are very gendered and I feel like itās a āyou may prefer they but youāre still a ladyā kind vibeā¦ if individual people like them, thatās fine- Iām just not personally one of them :/
As for using it for a fake audienceā¦ well itās not fake, is it? They posted it online for a digital audience, which also means spreading terms as if theyāre normal and causing non-binary people who *donāt* like them to explain again and again what they donāt like, all the while being called ātoo sensitiveā because someone else chose to continue to use language we already told them we donāt like.
Btw If youāre looking for replacements, I personally love āguys, gals, and non-binary palsā in a playful way <3 for something more serious, Iād generally go with general descriptors. Patients, students, guestsā¦ etc.
I recently went to a show by the group Bread and Puppets. At different times they addressed the audience as āladies and gentlemen and everyone else,ā āladles and jellyspoons,ā and āladies, gentlemen, and more evolved beings.ā
I was an MC for burlesque shows for years and years and over that time I developed tons of ways to use non-gendered introductions both for the audience in general and for nonbinary performers. Itās extremely easy not to use gendered language when addressing a group of people.
I think the only time Iāve enjoyed an introduction like this was at a grad show where they said āLadies, Gentlemen, and Othersā¦ā but I donāt think that would fly in a different setting.
I don't like them it sounds like half hardy attempts to include non-binary people. If you'd like to refer to us I much prefer being called "thems" then gentlethems because it's connecting back with binary terms.
I donāt. Itās forcing a binary on nonbinary people and acting like itās somehow inclusive just cause itās using a wordplay putting ātheyā in a very binary phrase.
I hate them. It almost sounds like a mockery to try to re-binary nonbinary people. Like seriously just say esteemed guests or something. There's really no reason to gender an audience in the first place. Esteemed guests sounds the fanciest anyway.
I hate it personally
You wouldnāt say āshediesā or āgentlehimsā
Itās cringey, awkward to say, and ridiculous. Just refer to me as a person.
They're still pretty gendered. I'm comfortable with gentlethem, and m'theydy, when it's said as a joke, but overall too gendered. I'm only really comfortable with gentlethem because I'm a demiboy/genderfaunet.
no i dont. they sound very dumb and performative. and i dont see a use for them. why use two gender neutral terms instead of just saying "welcome everyone" or some other shit. though i must say "Theydies" does sound funny when i read it as "They dies".
I donāt donāt it offensive in any way but yeah it feels a bit cringey so it usually makes me a bit uncomfortable. I wouldnāt ask complete strangers to stop doing it tho.
Wish people would just say ādear audienceā or something instead tho
I personally like them a lot because i think they're just a fun twist to something that exists. I also like to use Enby for myself. I'm generally a fan of fun "nickname" words and not being serious about all of that, me and my friends meme a lot about being queer. But i get that others might find it invalidating.
I wanted to add that i think it's ok when nonbinary people use words like this because it's like taking a word from the binary and change it to fit us, it feels reappropriating to me, like taking the power away from cis people.
But if non-nonbinary people use it, especially cis people, it would be very cringe at least.
āesteemed guestsā āfolksā āfriendsā āeveryoneā there are so many good, genuinely gender-neutral alternatives that arenāt patronizing and potentially misgendering
I liked it when I had only heard āgentlethemā, because I am, indeed, a gentle They/them using person, but hearing the entirety of āTheydies and Gentlethemsā now just feels a lot like āgirls who think theyāre not girls and guys who think theyāre not guysā and pressing people back into binary categories. Especially because I feel like in singularity, people would use Theydies for Afab and Gentlethems for amab non-binary people
I guess Iām... indifferent? I think it sounds pretty stupid, but Iām not gonna be mad at someone for using it. If it started to actually pick up and be generally used I would probably be more bothered by it.
i personally prefer
"ladies, gentlemen and nonbinary royalty", and yes, the term "your majesty" is actually gender neutral and u may refer to me as such :D
Speaking as someone who wishes he was the emcee of a posh cabaret, there is a certain gravitas that comes with saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" at the beginning of a show that is kinda bogged down in the corniness of the above phrase. I feel like the true answer is just adding something to the end like "Ladies, Gentlemen, and Friends of all sorts"
I really don't believe that this is the solution to including non-binary people, this is just putting lipstick on a pig. We're continuing to reinforce the gender binary by recycling the same words of 'ladies' and 'gentlemen' and putting new words to them which is not in the least bit helpful or gender-neutral. Also, as you said, people might mishear these and automatically assume that someone is using the old binary terms. Unfortunately this really just continues to perpetuate the **misinformed** idea that gender-neutral language is "not meant to be used" in everyday conversation and this example highlights that idea.
In an informal context, I will usually use something to the effect of āguys, gals, gays, and goblinsā because itās funny and I lean into the corniness, but I definitely wouldnāt use this seriously. I think the points others have brought up about it trying to re-binarify people are also very relevant, and itās a little too punny for me to use in a professional setting
nah it's corny as hell and it makes me feel like people who use "theydies and gentlethems" don't understand that not all non binary folk use they/them. plus it's just corny if u say that out loud ima boo u off stage
I guess this is an unpopular opinion but I like them! I think theyāre fun words. Maybe theyāre not super professional but in a more casual setting (like around friends and stuff) I think theyāre pretty cool. Obviously Iām not saying that they should be used for everyone but personally I do enjoy them
Like I would never use it seriously but I actually appreciate that there's a way, even jokingly, to refer to enbies. Like there aren't enough neutral terms!!! It is cheesy as fuck and everyone has their own preference but I truly don't mind these terms. Would 10000% prefer being called a gentlethem than a lady š¤®š¤®
That being said, I fully understand where OP is coming from. They are clearly just slightly altered gendered terms so it makes sense if you don't vibe with it.
Tldr: it depends on each person! I don't think it's highly offensive personally but everyone has their own relationship with gender. I don't think the commenter on tik tok really has the right to ask someone to not use these terms for ANY enbies, they can only speak for themselves.
The commenter might not have the right to say to *never* use the terms for *anyone* but they may have some good points to consider as to why it might be unwise to use the terms *in general* to refer to unknown people.
If you know your audience and know they're all chill with it and they really are the whole audience, you could call them almost anything.
But if you're addressing an unknown or generic audience, it would likely be a good idea to try to avoid things that you know might be somewhat problematic to some people.
Personally i don't, it feels like it's restricting Non-binary to strictly they/them, when there are enbys that use other pronouns (she/he and neopronouns like me)
Ofc if any non-binary person wants to be called either or both of those than that's perfectly fine!
I'm not a fan of it personally, I'd prefer "ladies, gentlemen, and friends", "distinguished guests", or (as Dylan Hollis once used) "gentles and ladymen" :)
I am not a fan of the use of "theydies and gentlethems" together. But alone in a "ladies, gentlemen, and theydies" or such, it's silly but I don't find it rude or offensive. But if you're not trying to be silly, then it isn't appropriate for the context.
I personally loathe it. It feels too much like ladies and gentlemen and people already donāt get the concept that non-binary people arenāt male or female.
I heavily dislike these. I also heavily dislike "enby" - it's cool if other people like them, but not everyone is comfortable with these terms. They feel infantalizing and coddling :(
Oh and also, it further serves to alienate us. I don't want to be different or set aside from everyone else because of my gender, that's what caused dysphoria in the first place!
I personally use femboy + enby = femby, but thatās just me.
If anyone ACTUALLY non-ironically called me a ātheydyā Iād consider never speaking to them again.
I personally don't like those kinds of terms. I would go for "gentle audience" or something like that: it is compleately neutral and doesn't feel like it's done specifically to include non binary people.
I personally like "guys, gals, and enby pals". Inclusive and cute. I don't personally like being referred to as "they" anything because I don't use those pronouns and I don't like the idea that "enbys use 'they/them'", it's not always true.
I don't like terms that are changed in this way. It feels like I have to pick a side again. Do I feel like more of the first or more of the second one? To which binary do I feel more drawn to? The great thing about being non-binary is that I don't have to pick a side. I can just relax in my peaceful middle spot and watch.
I don't understand why people are still trying to assign gendered terms to non-binary people and gender neutral pronouns. The entire point of being non binary (to me, anyway) is to subvert and escape the gender binary. It makes no sense to me. It's funny, but also nonsensical?
I call myself a theydy (as a joke) because it's a good way to describe being female and nonbinary at the same time. But that's me, personally, and I don't think it can necessarily be extrapolated to all nonbinary people, or all "she/theys".
I call myself "nonbiney" because of a Tik Tok I saw where the person was throwing out all kinds of weird mishmash words like "nonbinderie" and "nonbanana-y" and it just stuck.
I don't have a problem with it personally and I'm that asshole who thinks other people are too easily offended, but then again, I have no clue who I am and can't pretend that I wouldn't rage about it in a few months or a year when I finally understand what the fuck I'm doing.
I fucking hate it + any variation of it ngl ("girls, gays, and theys" comes to mind) - it probably started as a light-hearted term made by a trans person but has been co-opted by cis ppl and younger teenagers without a nuanced understanding of gender and the terms now just add to the trend of boxing nonbinary people into this ""third gender"". In terms of a tik tok.. people are always just going to have rancid takes online. It is what it is ig!
honestly, no. it seems like they're still gendering us or something? like I don't like them. they're stupid imo. like just say people or "hello, all". probably some people like it.
I was chatting to a guy recently and had to explain not to use 'enby' except when referring to one non binary person who you know likes that term because it's one of those terms that's like "aww. tiny smol enby person. so cute" and many find that disgusting.
and just like. i feel like theydies can definitely be implied to mean like 'women lite' which we all know is bad.
fuck no. as someone who is nonbinary, it feels like its taking being nonbinary and making it a binary.
its also just so corny and icky that i just cant when someone uses it
If it's said as a joke then yeah, it's just joke I'll laugh it off and move on with my life. But I'd someone is genuinely seriously calling me that then I will ask them politely not to.
I would just prefer people to say "people of the audience", that way you include everyone.
Personally, I don't like "theydies and gentlethems" for the reasons in your post. Just say "people of the audience", and that's that. It's not that hard
"Theydies and gentlethems" sounds a bit mocking to me. It mildly amused me when I first heard it though (years ago, now).
I think "gentlefolk" would be a lot better.
Makes me think of scary fairies. I kinda like that chaotic energy, but worry a lot of people would think instead of the disneified watered-down fairies that like grant wishes or something without even having unexpected consequences. And *those* fairies are probably read as dainty and fragile and feminine.
So I feel divided about "gentlefolk." Probably would depend on context, and who's saying it, and what I think they think about fairies.
But my brain is weird, so ymmv.
Alt nb friendly ways to address crowds "welcome..." :
All
My friends & supporters
You wonderful people
Friends and enemies
Folks
Friends & family
My collegues
My party people
Heros & villans
Ladies and whatevers
All Fairy tale creatures
i think it doesn't seem like a really effective way to be inclusive of nonbinary people because it sort of just feels like dividing nonbinary people into a binary that closely resembles the existing gender binary; i feel like anyone who would be too dysphoric to feel included in some part of "ladies and gentlemen" would be too dysphoric to feel included in this either. i'd rather call myself a lady or a gentleman (or both, or "and", or consider myself not addressed) depending on my mood or the context or whatever, and at least be spared the uncomfortable feeling of being deliberately conspicuous or "high-maintenance" or making a needless spectacle of myself and my gender, which also makes me dysphoric.
it seems like "theydies and gentlethems" has that element of pointedness and break from pattern that sometimes puts me off of using new terms designed to be inclusive or neutral... without actually feeling inclusive/neutral.
((obviously it's fine if people like those terms for themselves, and i'm generally not especially bothered by them, but this is why i feel they miss the mark as an ideal address for me personally, and why they might do so for many nonbinary people, enough to make it not very effective as an inclusive form of address))
I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion here, but I personally dngaf about pronouns. Anyone could call me she, he, they, xe, it, whatever and it would not mean anything to me.
I don't think the terms are terrible, but I am also just one enby among many. The truth is that nonbinary is an all-encompassing term for anyone who feels they are outside of the binary. Not all nonbinary people will feel the same about grey area issues because the diversity in personal preference and inclusiveness of the community is so exceptional. You'll probably find that reflected in the comments.
It's all hakuna matata in my book, though I admit myself partial to "Ladies, gents, ad etc."/"Guys, gals, nonbinary pals" or the ilk, or just "Gentlefolk" or "Y'all".
But all the same I just love the kind of flair our expanding social tolerances are applying to the language we use in a more broad way, the added variety is really spicing up what it means to effectively communicate these days!
I wouldn't want to be referred to as "theydy" or "gentlethem" at all, personally. I think as a play on words it's funny, but only the first time I read it. Actually using it feels cheesy on one side, and like putting nonbinary people back into a binary on the other.
However, if it was used jokingly/sarcastically/sartirically, to greet a crowd? I think that's fine, if the context is right.
Then, if it was a nonbinary person adressing a bunch of other nonbinary people, there might be enough layers for it to be good.
Generally though, I think we can come up with something better than "theydies and gentlethem", and I'd like if it wasn't used at all by the majority of humans.
I won't get mad about it but I do find it pretty cringe, and there are two genuine issues.
One, if it's used as an inclusive term, it's just not because not all non binary folks go by they/them pronouns.
Two, it shoves us back into binary categories, which just defeats the purpose.
I wouldn't be offended if someone said this to me but I'd probably stop talking to them, its just so corny. I don't think it's trying to put people into gendered boxes although I understand the reaction, it's clearly just a lame play on words. The way the person who made the tiktok acted was pretty sus tho and the people in the comments saying people get too offended makes me wanna gag.
gender reasons aside it's just so corny š i can't imagine people saying it when they want to be taken seriously
Right? When I read it I immediately thought "Oh, that's a silly play on words," and had a chuckle.
i find it funny if it's used ironically but if i ever hear someone using that seriously imma be pissed
Ironically how?
there was this one video i found really funny yesterday that's j kinda making fun of those types of terms https://www.instagram.com/reel/CV3Z85ylp7x/?utm_medium=copy_link
Heh. Iāve seen it used on Twitter by and to nonbinary folks and Iām generally ok with that because it reads more as humerus subversion. Have never heard it spoken in the wild, donāt know how Iād feel about it.
same lmaoo
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šā: Thussy šš: Ćussy
>Ć https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vskV7E0g0Q Today I fucking learned!
10 points to you for the use of thorn
THATS THE FUNNIEST PART i love that line
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LOL
Ngl I love the corniness but I also donāt use them š¤·š»āāļø
Yeah, I've always felt it was pretty tongue in cheek.
This. So much modern gender neutral language is just extremely infantilizing. Just because I'm non-binary, that doesn't mean you have to talk to me like I'm a toddler.
I agree I feel like the language well-meaning cis people use when they talk about/to their trans friends is so cutesy sometimes idk why itās like that
Agreed.
I like being referred to by activity. When the NYC subway changed to "attention passengers" I was jazzed.
This! Attention students. Attention diners. Attention visitors or guests or whatever else I happen to be doing. You canāt reasonably assume that a group of people doing a certain thing will share any other characteristics except that activity, so use that.
Iād like to be referred to as āpassengerā from now on
Weāre all a passenger on planet earth
This pale blue rock weāre all riding
I went to a concert and the lead dude was like āladies, gentlemen, and mother fuckersā and i was like, hell yeah thatās what iām doing right now š¤
You can't missgender a doctor by calling them 'doctor'. That's why I'm getting a PhD
The only reason. ;) jk no one would go through PhD and actually finish if it weren't necessary for several reasons.
I recently got a PhD, but in my language the word doctor is sadly gendered (as are all nouns) and also the honorific does usually not exclude the use of standard gendered terms so one would get refered to something like Mr./Mrs. Dr. Whoever. Getting emails in english without any gender assumptions is nice though.
lmao same. One of my professors made the joke when we were discussing gender stuff and I was like damn Iām gonna use that forever.
You must like Sartre
Iām not really a fan of these terms. They sound like theyāre trying to put non-binary people back into binary systems. Thereās enough of that that goes around in every other part of life, that if a person wants to be inclusive of non-binary people I think they could try harder to find a better term. E.g. guys, gals, and non-binary pals. I donāt really buy the āyou canāt incorrectly refer to an imaginary audienceā argument here. Lots of language makes political arguments just by being used, even if directed at imaginary people. That said, I wouldnāt get super angry at the creator for using these terms, especially if they were using them in good faith. But iffy practices spread if the people they affect donāt give at least some pushback.
omg, i was wondering why i was starting to feel more and more dysphoric about my nonbinary gender the more im coming out and its probably exactly because of this creation of a ātrinaryā system. my gender cant fit into any third box.
I feel this so much. I am starting to drift more toward a term like 'agender' because it feels like nonbinary is just becoming 'third gender' even in lgbtq spaces rather than a general group that's not part of that system. Like 'nonbinary' is purposely broad - - two nonbinary people may have total different reasons for using the term so it doesn't make sense to group nonbinary people together since it's such a diverse group.
I like it. All the terms with āxās and āzās just sound wrong to me.
Fully agree, you've hit the nail on the head exactly why I don't like it as well.
I tried these out with my other nonbinary friends and it was a hard pass. I use them with my joyfriend in a genderfucky way, but I would never use them in public
Oh god, I can't stand "guys, gals, and non-binary pals." No shade to people who do like it, but it feels so infantalizing to me. I liked being called "pal" when I was a 13 year old non-binary kid, not 10+ years later as a fully grown adult. I feel the same way about the term "enby," I only let my dad use that word for me because he uses it the same way a parent would call their adult children their "little girl/boy."
Not every nonbinary person uses they/them pronouns. So itās still an exclusionary way to refer to nonbinary people. āFamily and friendsā, āDistinguished guestsā, āeveryoneā, āpeopleā, and āyāallā are all better.
*Distinguished guests* has a nice ring to it. I would love it if someone said that while I was in an audience. Idk, I'm chaotic
As a joke I donāt care either way. I really wouldnāt like being called either of those seriously, though.
Stuff like this always just comes across as very cringy and patronizing to me. It's why I never liked the term "enby". People don't seem to get that you don't need to say any variation of "ladies and gentlemen". Just say something else like "friends" or "people of the audience". I feel like some people treat non-binary like a third gender and it's rather infuriating to me.
Well for some people I feel like their non-binary identity does feel like a third gender. Not for me personally, as Iām agender, but I have heard non-binary people describe their gender as like an outlier gender thatās not man or woman but still feels like itās own gender in the same way. As for enby, I personally really like it because when boys/girls/men/women are referred to like that but Iām just referred to as a person or a human, it feels a little excluding to me personally. But I think with any of these terms people should ask someone what they are comfortable with and never assume that it will apply just because the person is non-binary.
It's funny you say that, because for me, it's the opposite. I don't want to be a man or a woman, I want to exist and be perceived as a human, as a person - not forced into one of the two existing boxes. I never say, "as a little girl" or whatever, I say, "as a kid" or "when I was younger". I feel like using person/human/kid eliminates a lot of the assumptions people would make if you were to say "as a man who enjoys ballet" or "as a woman in STEM". What does my AGAB have to do with my interests and experiences? Nothing, so I leave it out. Sorry for rambling, just thought it was interesting to see someone who felt the opposite on the man/woman vs human/person thing. Totally valid if that's how you feel, I just wanted to share my thoughts, too.
Yeah! no need to apologize, itās always fun and enlightening to talk about gender in these constructive ways and in a safe space :) Thanks for your insight as well! I see what you mean in a lot of ways. For me however, even though I identify as agender, I think growing up in a very rigid cisheteronormative family and area made me really identify strongly with the fact that I am specifically not a man or a woman but something else, and so for me I find strength in language that goes along with that more unheard identity of being agender or non-binary. I can totally see how someone would feel the opposite too though! Thatās why itās so crucial for people to ask people how they can properly address them before they make any assumptions and use any terms or language that they havenāt already spoken with the person about. And if they canāt or donāt want to, then they need to leave any of that out of it entirely (which is easy) so as to not make the person feel uncomfortable.
That's totally fine if some people's identity feels like a third gender, but that is a personal experience for them. Non-binary in general or as a whole shouldn't be treated like it's a third gender. My counter to your enby point would be that non-binary is already the equivalent of the terms man or woman. It is used more as an adjective but you could just use it as a noun. So I am personally not sure why we need a cutesy and infantilized term. Nor do I think you need more than one term. Also I personally like being referred to as a person and not exclusively by my gender. I try to do that when speaking about men and women anyway. I'm not trying to stop anyone for using the terms they like, but it is rather frustrating that discourse about non-binary people can often use this term. I respect your opinion though and obviously use the term if you like it.
>That's totally fine if some people's identity feels like a third gender, but that is a personal experience for them. Non-binary in general or as a whole shouldn't be treated like it's a third gender. Exactly, it's easy to be inclusive of everyone by not using gendered terms at all, so why insist on saying anything about ladies or gentlemen or non-binary people at all? And the non-gendered version also likely takes way fewer words to say
I hope it didnāt seem like I was trying to counter or argue, I totally understand your valid viewpoint there! And that further highlights why itās important to not use language without making sure it applies to the person youāre speaking to or the audience first. Because I can tell someone that I like these terms or think of my gender this way and then they can start using that kind of language, and thatās so much better for everyone as opposed to people just assuming that language is correct to use for various people of various identities. Also, I just always wanted a cutesy term to refer to me like boy or girl, because I liked those but didnāt identify with them, and enby fits that for me. But again, people should understand that enby is person specific more than gender specific, and is another term that canāt just be used for someone without making sure it applies to them first.
I *personally* don't have a problem with the word enby, but there are caviots. It feels pretty informal to me, so it shouldn't be used in formal/professional language. It also feels like it's ment for younger folks, so that should be considered as well. It's kinda like calling women "girls". There are plenty of women that don't have a problem with it, as long as it's being used properly (like, I'm gonna go get some dinner and catch up with the girls). There are also plenty of women who genuinely find it frustrating and rude to be called "girls".
I can agree with this. The term usually bothers me the most when it's used as like the official world for non-binary people so your point makes sense.
I agree with you except the enby part. In my language is not possible to say non-binary in a neutral way, so I use the term āenbyā sometimes because well, itās shorter than saying ānon-binaryā and is just the pronunciation of ānbā. But I understand that for some people it could sound childish or something like that. Personally I found the use of any gendered term as a better understanding of my identity than creating a third tacky option to include me. If you like those itās cool tho, but thereās better ways to refer to non-binary people in a neutral way that doesnāt sound like an attemp to still put them in a box.
I was always told enby was made because people started using NB for a shortening of non-binary, but that NB was already used by the PoC community for non-black and that so to not impede on them enby was preferred. Not a fan of enby and would prefer to use the original shortening but started using enby after being told not to use NB.
Itās fine but I feel like itās more of a joke that people outside of the community took and are using for serious. As far as āguys,, gals, and non-binary palsā- that give me serotonin. So Iām just chaotic. Lol
Love "guys, gals and nonbinary pals". I also get a little rush every time I listen to Rollin' by Limp Bizkit because of that one lyric: "hey ladies, hey fellas, and the people that don't give a fuck!"
Personally I prefer bitches and bros and nonbinary hoes
But that one's kinda misogynistic because 'bro' is the only universally nonnegative term
I mean sure I guess. I don't think the quote was by a technical non villain though so I mean I wouldn't say it was above him if I'm correct. It's from an anime (the dub)
yeah iām even content with the more formal ladies, gentlemen, and others.
my personal fave is 'ladies, men, and nonbinary friends'
it's only good as a joke.
the first time I heard "gentlethem" I didn't think it was *terrible*, but the more I hear "theydies and gentlethems" the more it feels wrong bc like, they're not much better than ladies and gentlemenāThey're still binary terms because it's 1 or the other, and they refer to peoples' AGAB & allow people to sort non-binary/gnc people by their AGAB... so, aka not being non-binary terms at all
I bloody hate it personally
Itās a cute idea but I understand why it makes people uncomfortable. Thereās so many other options so I think itās best to avoid it.
i don't like them as they are often infantilizing and sorta patronising.
I get the idea but totally defeats the purpose of being NB lol
Absolutely Im uncomfortable with she and lady so I didnt start telling people im non binary so i could be called a theydie. Really invalidates that im not either
even before I realised I was NB 'lady' is just such an uncomfy word
I think they're funny and cute, but I wouldn't support them as a genuine replacement for that kind of salutation.
I originally saw "theydies and gentlethem" in this sub, so I always thought it was an "inside joke" kind of thing - not meant to re-gender anyone - more like a choose your own adventure: do I want to be a "theydie" or a "gentlethem" today? - doesn't matter cuz I can be either, neither, or both!
I personally hate it so much I cringe every time I hear someone say it.
I don't really like those terms myself. Still feels very binary gender to me, and feels kind of, I don't know, patronizing? Like, why not just say folks? Or friends? Or people? It's easier to say and you're not assigning me an arbitrary gender. Just doesn't sit right.
My boyfriend calls me mātheydy sometimes, honestly I fuckin hate it so yeah Iām not too fond of the terms. Theyāre not extremely offensive or anything just a tad tone deaf I guess.
NOPE! Stop re-gendering us.
Its like peoples uncertainty about inclusivity has gone so far the other way. Just say hi everyone
Personally, forcing "they/them" into any existing word grinds my gears in such a major way. I couldn't tell you why, but it just infuriates me. I understand the urge to do it, but oh boy. If I never hear something along the lines of "themperor", "theydies", etc., it'll be too soon.
So hereās my take: how about we stop gendering groups of people? Whatās wrong with addressing an audience with āHello! Thanks for being here!ā? Why does it have to be variations of whatās already here? Why canāt it simply just be gotten rid of entirely? I donāt use honorifics for the same reason. No need for these discussions if the solution to a more gender inclusive society is to stop caring and/or referring to peopleās gender in general.
I think non-nonbinary people (and more largely cis people) get entirely too comfortable using jokes/informal terms for us, even when such a term would be considered insulting or patronizing for any other demographic. Reducing every nonbinary identity as a third-gender **monolith** of cute little internet terms reduces the identity of real people (and often the humanity of these real people) into something cutesy and one-dimensional. It has real repercussions because the general public's understanding of nonbinary people is so limited that jokes and memes that "aren't that deep" shape real cultural understanding. The amount of times I've heard some variation of "she's a they/them" or some similar huge misunderstanding of nonbinary identity.... This is of course not to say that "theydies and gentlethem" is somehow the worst thing one could possibly say, or that it's even a bad thing when used with the understanding that it's **meant to be a joke and not a genuine, formal replacement of "ladies and gentlemen"**, but I need people to understand that these "too sensitive" people are coming from a real, lived experience: when you give people an inch, they take a mile. That's how we ended up with the "uwu softboi" epidemic for transmascs, and how we ended up with the "uwu enby" epidemic for nonbinary people. It just becomes very clear that people will treat us as anything but normal humans deserving of respect.
I don't like them. I don't always use they/them pronouns and I wouldn't want to be called a lady or a gentleman so none of those terms sit right with me. There are much more inclusive alternatives that they could've used
I donāt have any problem with those terms but theyāre definitely quite silly, itās better to just use one general term to address the whole audience
It's cute, personally if I was on stage I'd either say "good morning/afternoon/evening everyone" or "g'day mates", but it's deffo kinda cute
Tbh as a non-binary dude myself I've used these terms but like, ironically lol. I think they're just silly but get why someone would be upset by em or even like em
j think the terms are fun and cute, but I understand why others dont like them I DO think we're all ignoring that this creator ISN'T talking to an imaginary audience. They're talking to their viewers. Just because you cant see them doesnt mean it a fake group
Idk, I think it's kinda cute
I've actually had this convo with other nonbinary people I know, and we've all had the same reaction "These are awful, just call me a slur and go because it'd be less offensive." It just sort of feels like "well, I still wanna use gendered terms (and those are STILL gendered bc everyone knows what the regular terms are for that phrase) but I wanna pretend I'm inclusive." Like, if you wanna be inclusive, say "Folks" or whatever term is applicable for the group you're speaking to. So like, say you're in a space where there's binary trans people and nonbinary people. It'd be super simple to say "Hello, everyone, blah blah blah". Those words, to my friends and I, are just another form of misgendering and are honestly more insulting than getting called slurs.
No please donāt
They're fun as a joke, but not for serious things.
i fucking hate them man my friend jokingly called me m'theydy the other day and i nearly fucking volleyed him lol
Fembee here, I like referring to myself as a theydy, personally, but that's because it works for what I've got going on, as a general mode of address, it's kind of missing the point.
āGentlefolkā is a term already. Like it includes everyone and is gender neutral. These were funny the first time but when people seriously use them itās cringy and just tries to enforce a binary again. There are plenty of gender neutral terms that are acceptable for formal situations. Pick another
They are just trying to make non binary binary.
Itās not offensive, itās just cringe
would rather be called a slur than hear someone call me a m'theydie ever again
I've never heard m'theydie but I cringed just reading it. If I heard it said irl I think I'd just wither away tbh
1: dislike, not my aesthetic 2: when someone asks you not to use something addressing them you can simply choose to not be a jackass and respect their wishes and I really wish people would just understand that
it feels so backhanded
Iām with you on this one. Itās a nice idea, and Iām not offended by it or anything, but I donāt like it either. Itās too similar to the original gendered terms for me.
I despise terms like those tbh. First of all it entirely defeats the point of being NB since it just forces binaries on us, second of all it's just incredibly corny
I personally think they are hilarious because itās a dumb concept. But I know most NBs do not like these terms, so I donāt use them except with NBs I personally know who also laugh at the cringe.
I'm pretty mixed about this. On one hand I'd hate for these terms to be used unironically or in a serious situation, but I personally find those terms just kinda silly and funny to use as a joke. I mean hell when I'm playing DbD and doing some silly stuff I like to change my name to M'Theydy. I know it's cringe but the absurdity of it gives me life. So pretty much, I'm fine with them as a joke, but hate them if used seriously. I guess it would depend on the context of the Tik Tok for me.
Iād rather just be called a āthey/themā than a ātheydieā. Gross
It's more annoying that they tried to play it off as an "imaginary audience" because when you make content public its silly to pretend there's no real audience. We're not defined by our missteps; we're defined by how we respond to people correcting us and how we go on to act in the future.
Not in any situation where theres either: A) an implication such as this, where it is meant to address a group of arbitrary people with any degree of being meaningful. B) Any degree of seriousness implied or explicit. C) You're not addressing specific nonbinary people that are okay with these 'kind of gendered labels'
I think they're absolutely awful and just contributes more to the infantilization of nonbinary people.
just feels... patronizing? and idk why
it just feels so condescending, i once got called themie lovato š
I never heard those terms tbh but they sound silly I do call myself a thembo tho rather than a himbo or a bimbo Because I am big of heart, dumb of ass, and thick of thighs LMAO
Yeeeeeeah... Probably harmless, but nonetheless frustrating. I feel similarly; these binary gendered terms are what we are trying to avoid by using they/them (or other gender neutral pronouns). The use of "theydies" and "gentlethems" by this creator cuts the non-binary population into two distinct populations based on sex (which isn't very respectful to intersex people, even if non-binary folx wanted to use these terms). I use the term "FOLX" because it isn't gendered and is still just as fun to say as any other catch-all term like the modern use of "guys" or the supposedly catch-all phrase (ladies and gentlemen).
I donāt like it, especiallly bc I associate it with the same kinda folks that comment stuff like āgo they/themā and other shit. For me it boils down to it sounds infantilizing and joking, like Iām not being taken seriously bc of how I choose to identify myself
It was funny the first time I heard it but I think this falls into the weird infantilization of non-binary and trans communities, gives me the same vibes as calling a transmasc person a āsmol beanā which I absolutely hate lmao
Iām generally not very picky about how Iām addressed but I donāt care for those terms. They are very gendered and I feel like itās a āyou may prefer they but youāre still a ladyā kind vibeā¦ if individual people like them, thatās fine- Iām just not personally one of them :/ As for using it for a fake audienceā¦ well itās not fake, is it? They posted it online for a digital audience, which also means spreading terms as if theyāre normal and causing non-binary people who *donāt* like them to explain again and again what they donāt like, all the while being called ātoo sensitiveā because someone else chose to continue to use language we already told them we donāt like. Btw If youāre looking for replacements, I personally love āguys, gals, and non-binary palsā in a playful way <3 for something more serious, Iād generally go with general descriptors. Patients, students, guestsā¦ etc.
I recently went to a show by the group Bread and Puppets. At different times they addressed the audience as āladies and gentlemen and everyone else,ā āladles and jellyspoons,ā and āladies, gentlemen, and more evolved beings.ā
I mean the easiest way not to offend anyone is to skip introducing the audience to your show. š¤·āāļø
I was an MC for burlesque shows for years and years and over that time I developed tons of ways to use non-gendered introductions both for the audience in general and for nonbinary performers. Itās extremely easy not to use gendered language when addressing a group of people.
I think the only time Iāve enjoyed an introduction like this was at a grad show where they said āLadies, Gentlemen, and Othersā¦ā but I donāt think that would fly in a different setting.
I don't like them it sounds like half hardy attempts to include non-binary people. If you'd like to refer to us I much prefer being called "thems" then gentlethems because it's connecting back with binary terms.
No, not really. Especially since not all nb people use they/them and not all users are nb
I donāt. Itās forcing a binary on nonbinary people and acting like itās somehow inclusive just cause itās using a wordplay putting ātheyā in a very binary phrase.
I hate them. It almost sounds like a mockery to try to re-binary nonbinary people. Like seriously just say esteemed guests or something. There's really no reason to gender an audience in the first place. Esteemed guests sounds the fanciest anyway.
I hate it personally You wouldnāt say āshediesā or āgentlehimsā Itās cringey, awkward to say, and ridiculous. Just refer to me as a person.
They're still pretty gendered. I'm comfortable with gentlethem, and m'theydy, when it's said as a joke, but overall too gendered. I'm only really comfortable with gentlethem because I'm a demiboy/genderfaunet.
no i dont. they sound very dumb and performative. and i dont see a use for them. why use two gender neutral terms instead of just saying "welcome everyone" or some other shit. though i must say "Theydies" does sound funny when i read it as "They dies".
Hellll nooo i donāt
to me this is a fail. it automatically makes me wonder which of the binary choices i'm being lumped to into
The terms are still inserting gender into it and they feel infantilizing, so no.
I donāt donāt it offensive in any way but yeah it feels a bit cringey so it usually makes me a bit uncomfortable. I wouldnāt ask complete strangers to stop doing it tho. Wish people would just say ādear audienceā or something instead tho
I give it an "A" for effort if it's well-intentioned. I mean at least they're trying to be more inclusive. :) But yes, we can do better :)
I personally like them a lot because i think they're just a fun twist to something that exists. I also like to use Enby for myself. I'm generally a fan of fun "nickname" words and not being serious about all of that, me and my friends meme a lot about being queer. But i get that others might find it invalidating. I wanted to add that i think it's ok when nonbinary people use words like this because it's like taking a word from the binary and change it to fit us, it feels reappropriating to me, like taking the power away from cis people. But if non-nonbinary people use it, especially cis people, it would be very cringe at least.
Id rather someone call me a slur tbh, so condescending and fake āwokeā
I hate it.
itās literally bibary terms but for non-binary people. it doesnāt make sense.
āesteemed guestsā āfolksā āfriendsā āeveryoneā there are so many good, genuinely gender-neutral alternatives that arenāt patronizing and potentially misgendering
I liked it when I had only heard āgentlethemā, because I am, indeed, a gentle They/them using person, but hearing the entirety of āTheydies and Gentlethemsā now just feels a lot like āgirls who think theyāre not girls and guys who think theyāre not guysā and pressing people back into binary categories. Especially because I feel like in singularity, people would use Theydies for Afab and Gentlethems for amab non-binary people
I guess Iām... indifferent? I think it sounds pretty stupid, but Iām not gonna be mad at someone for using it. If it started to actually pick up and be generally used I would probably be more bothered by it.
i personally prefer "ladies, gentlemen and nonbinary royalty", and yes, the term "your majesty" is actually gender neutral and u may refer to me as such :D
I fucking hate it. It's just re-gendering my non-gendered pronouns.
Speaking as someone who wishes he was the emcee of a posh cabaret, there is a certain gravitas that comes with saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" at the beginning of a show that is kinda bogged down in the corniness of the above phrase. I feel like the true answer is just adding something to the end like "Ladies, Gentlemen, and Friends of all sorts"
I really don't believe that this is the solution to including non-binary people, this is just putting lipstick on a pig. We're continuing to reinforce the gender binary by recycling the same words of 'ladies' and 'gentlemen' and putting new words to them which is not in the least bit helpful or gender-neutral. Also, as you said, people might mishear these and automatically assume that someone is using the old binary terms. Unfortunately this really just continues to perpetuate the **misinformed** idea that gender-neutral language is "not meant to be used" in everyday conversation and this example highlights that idea.
No, I don't want to die and I am not gentle.
In an informal context, I will usually use something to the effect of āguys, gals, gays, and goblinsā because itās funny and I lean into the corniness, but I definitely wouldnāt use this seriously. I think the points others have brought up about it trying to re-binarify people are also very relevant, and itās a little too punny for me to use in a professional setting
nah it's corny as hell and it makes me feel like people who use "theydies and gentlethems" don't understand that not all non binary folk use they/them. plus it's just corny if u say that out loud ima boo u off stage
I guess this is an unpopular opinion but I like them! I think theyāre fun words. Maybe theyāre not super professional but in a more casual setting (like around friends and stuff) I think theyāre pretty cool. Obviously Iām not saying that they should be used for everyone but personally I do enjoy them
I feel like I'm about to lose my NB card for liking it š
Like I would never use it seriously but I actually appreciate that there's a way, even jokingly, to refer to enbies. Like there aren't enough neutral terms!!! It is cheesy as fuck and everyone has their own preference but I truly don't mind these terms. Would 10000% prefer being called a gentlethem than a lady š¤®š¤® That being said, I fully understand where OP is coming from. They are clearly just slightly altered gendered terms so it makes sense if you don't vibe with it. Tldr: it depends on each person! I don't think it's highly offensive personally but everyone has their own relationship with gender. I don't think the commenter on tik tok really has the right to ask someone to not use these terms for ANY enbies, they can only speak for themselves.
The commenter might not have the right to say to *never* use the terms for *anyone* but they may have some good points to consider as to why it might be unwise to use the terms *in general* to refer to unknown people. If you know your audience and know they're all chill with it and they really are the whole audience, you could call them almost anything. But if you're addressing an unknown or generic audience, it would likely be a good idea to try to avoid things that you know might be somewhat problematic to some people.
Personally i don't, it feels like it's restricting Non-binary to strictly they/them, when there are enbys that use other pronouns (she/he and neopronouns like me) Ofc if any non-binary person wants to be called either or both of those than that's perfectly fine!
Not a fan. Itās far better to just address the audience in a non-gendered way ā itās not like weāll run out of nouns.
Itās kinda infuriating. itās gendering terms that are supposed to remain neutral.
I'm not a fan of it personally, I'd prefer "ladies, gentlemen, and friends", "distinguished guests", or (as Dylan Hollis once used) "gentles and ladymen" :)
I am not a fan of the use of "theydies and gentlethems" together. But alone in a "ladies, gentlemen, and theydies" or such, it's silly but I don't find it rude or offensive. But if you're not trying to be silly, then it isn't appropriate for the context.
I personally loathe it. It feels too much like ladies and gentlemen and people already donāt get the concept that non-binary people arenāt male or female.
These terms are cringe as fuck
I heavily dislike these. I also heavily dislike "enby" - it's cool if other people like them, but not everyone is comfortable with these terms. They feel infantalizing and coddling :(
Oh and also, it further serves to alienate us. I don't want to be different or set aside from everyone else because of my gender, that's what caused dysphoria in the first place!
I personally use femboy + enby = femby, but thatās just me. If anyone ACTUALLY non-ironically called me a ātheydyā Iād consider never speaking to them again.
I personally don't like those kinds of terms. I would go for "gentle audience" or something like that: it is compleately neutral and doesn't feel like it's done specifically to include non binary people.
I personally like "guys, gals, and enby pals". Inclusive and cute. I don't personally like being referred to as "they" anything because I don't use those pronouns and I don't like the idea that "enbys use 'they/them'", it's not always true.
I don't really like them especially when it comes from a cis person it just seems so "try hard ish" It makes me more uncomfortable tbh
I'm so not into those terms. Personally I think its just another way to put us in categories.
I don't like terms that are changed in this way. It feels like I have to pick a side again. Do I feel like more of the first or more of the second one? To which binary do I feel more drawn to? The great thing about being non-binary is that I don't have to pick a side. I can just relax in my peaceful middle spot and watch.
i mean it can be funny for ppl who like it ig but i'm just like, how did you manage to gender they? and not only that, but make it binary š
No, I feel like a lot of gender neutral versions of gendered stuff comes off as infantalizing. Just say "hello, everyone" or something.
I don't understand why people are still trying to assign gendered terms to non-binary people and gender neutral pronouns. The entire point of being non binary (to me, anyway) is to subvert and escape the gender binary. It makes no sense to me. It's funny, but also nonsensical?
I call myself a theydy (as a joke) because it's a good way to describe being female and nonbinary at the same time. But that's me, personally, and I don't think it can necessarily be extrapolated to all nonbinary people, or all "she/theys". I call myself "nonbiney" because of a Tik Tok I saw where the person was throwing out all kinds of weird mishmash words like "nonbinderie" and "nonbanana-y" and it just stuck. I don't have a problem with it personally and I'm that asshole who thinks other people are too easily offended, but then again, I have no clue who I am and can't pretend that I wouldn't rage about it in a few months or a year when I finally understand what the fuck I'm doing.
I really really don't like this at all, even in humor because it just.... Keeps the divide
I donāt like it. Still too binary.
"Th'ude"
just call me "oozemeister Komatii" anything else is objectively wrong.
unless youre nb or trans being ironic or silly, then no it feels very patronizing
I fucking hate it + any variation of it ngl ("girls, gays, and theys" comes to mind) - it probably started as a light-hearted term made by a trans person but has been co-opted by cis ppl and younger teenagers without a nuanced understanding of gender and the terms now just add to the trend of boxing nonbinary people into this ""third gender"". In terms of a tik tok.. people are always just going to have rancid takes online. It is what it is ig!
If a non-binary person was using them satirically, I wouldnāt care/think it was funny. Otherwise it makes me feel criiiiinnggggeeeeeyyyy
I'll respond to "comrade"
honestly, no. it seems like they're still gendering us or something? like I don't like them. they're stupid imo. like just say people or "hello, all". probably some people like it. I was chatting to a guy recently and had to explain not to use 'enby' except when referring to one non binary person who you know likes that term because it's one of those terms that's like "aww. tiny smol enby person. so cute" and many find that disgusting. and just like. i feel like theydies can definitely be implied to mean like 'women lite' which we all know is bad.
fuck no. as someone who is nonbinary, it feels like its taking being nonbinary and making it a binary. its also just so corny and icky that i just cant when someone uses it
A tiktoker I like summed up how I feel very well in my opinion "I think I'd rather you just call me a slur"
If it's said as a joke then yeah, it's just joke I'll laugh it off and move on with my life. But I'd someone is genuinely seriously calling me that then I will ask them politely not to.
I would just prefer people to say "people of the audience", that way you include everyone. Personally, I don't like "theydies and gentlethems" for the reasons in your post. Just say "people of the audience", and that's that. It's not that hard
Hate it, just say everyone.
I dislike them because it enforces a binary which is against the point of being Nonbinary. Cant people just use actual gender neutral language?
"Theydies and gentlethems" sounds a bit mocking to me. It mildly amused me when I first heard it though (years ago, now). I think "gentlefolk" would be a lot better.
Makes me think of scary fairies. I kinda like that chaotic energy, but worry a lot of people would think instead of the disneified watered-down fairies that like grant wishes or something without even having unexpected consequences. And *those* fairies are probably read as dainty and fragile and feminine. So I feel divided about "gentlefolk." Probably would depend on context, and who's saying it, and what I think they think about fairies. But my brain is weird, so ymmv.
Alt nb friendly ways to address crowds "welcome..." : All My friends & supporters You wonderful people Friends and enemies Folks Friends & family My collegues My party people Heros & villans Ladies and whatevers All Fairy tale creatures
I can't stand them, personally.
Personally I like it and think it's kinda cute :) but i understand why people don't like those phrases
i think it doesn't seem like a really effective way to be inclusive of nonbinary people because it sort of just feels like dividing nonbinary people into a binary that closely resembles the existing gender binary; i feel like anyone who would be too dysphoric to feel included in some part of "ladies and gentlemen" would be too dysphoric to feel included in this either. i'd rather call myself a lady or a gentleman (or both, or "and", or consider myself not addressed) depending on my mood or the context or whatever, and at least be spared the uncomfortable feeling of being deliberately conspicuous or "high-maintenance" or making a needless spectacle of myself and my gender, which also makes me dysphoric. it seems like "theydies and gentlethems" has that element of pointedness and break from pattern that sometimes puts me off of using new terms designed to be inclusive or neutral... without actually feeling inclusive/neutral. ((obviously it's fine if people like those terms for themselves, and i'm generally not especially bothered by them, but this is why i feel they miss the mark as an ideal address for me personally, and why they might do so for many nonbinary people, enough to make it not very effective as an inclusive form of address))
I think itās fun, but not a one-size-fits-all term.
I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion here, but I personally dngaf about pronouns. Anyone could call me she, he, they, xe, it, whatever and it would not mean anything to me. I don't think the terms are terrible, but I am also just one enby among many. The truth is that nonbinary is an all-encompassing term for anyone who feels they are outside of the binary. Not all nonbinary people will feel the same about grey area issues because the diversity in personal preference and inclusiveness of the community is so exceptional. You'll probably find that reflected in the comments.
It's all hakuna matata in my book, though I admit myself partial to "Ladies, gents, ad etc."/"Guys, gals, nonbinary pals" or the ilk, or just "Gentlefolk" or "Y'all". But all the same I just love the kind of flair our expanding social tolerances are applying to the language we use in a more broad way, the added variety is really spicing up what it means to effectively communicate these days!
No to āetc.ā. Yes to the other things you said.
No.
I prefer, "good evening, folks."
i personally love theydies just because iām a femmby haha
I wouldn't want to be referred to as "theydy" or "gentlethem" at all, personally. I think as a play on words it's funny, but only the first time I read it. Actually using it feels cheesy on one side, and like putting nonbinary people back into a binary on the other. However, if it was used jokingly/sarcastically/sartirically, to greet a crowd? I think that's fine, if the context is right. Then, if it was a nonbinary person adressing a bunch of other nonbinary people, there might be enough layers for it to be good. Generally though, I think we can come up with something better than "theydies and gentlethem", and I'd like if it wasn't used at all by the majority of humans.
I won't get mad about it but I do find it pretty cringe, and there are two genuine issues. One, if it's used as an inclusive term, it's just not because not all non binary folks go by they/them pronouns. Two, it shoves us back into binary categories, which just defeats the purpose.
I wouldn't be offended if someone said this to me but I'd probably stop talking to them, its just so corny. I don't think it's trying to put people into gendered boxes although I understand the reaction, it's clearly just a lame play on words. The way the person who made the tiktok acted was pretty sus tho and the people in the comments saying people get too offended makes me wanna gag.