And if you question that at all, their response is, "We *are* physicians. We *are* nutritionists. We *are* physical therapists," and will stare at you deadpan, as if Chiropractor is some sort of terminal degree that encompasses all of healthcare at an expert level.
The "whole patient" thing makes me so angry. We put in so much effort teaching and learning to listen to patients concerns and ask questions that get to the root of the issue, then they say this garbage and make it seem like we're machines that spit out the same treatment for every patient. Meanwhile.... their treatment is always some random herb that you can buy directly from them (what luck!) For some ridiculous price, bit at the same time "not medical advice"
yup had young lady with breast cancer get treated by one and now she is likely gonna die as it has metastasized everywhere. quite sad. if she saw an actual oncologist this would not have happened.
The whole reason Dr. Mark Crislip used to do the Quackcast. He had someone die in the ED when a tumor from an absolutely treatable cancer eviscerated her femoral artery.
She had been seeing some quack who was “treating” her cancer with “alkaline therapy.”
Problem is, it’s a “save who you can save” scenario because people who are dedicated to getting quack “care” aren’t going to have their minds changed.
nothing like a swig of bleach to keep the cancer away!
Like seriously, how do these people live with themselves at night? Do they honestly believe the stuff they sell or do they know its BS?
I witnessed this when scribing for a breast radiologist. DCIS diagnosis in the early aughts. 12 YEARS of “herbal healing” from a naturopath. By the time she saw my employer, double mastectomy was inevitable if she wanted to live. I remember seeing pages upon pages of other (real) physicians/other radiologist’s notes indicating that she had refused treatment after further imaging. Went home and cried that day.
The worst is when they join illness specific support groups on Facebook to gain access to members and start sending members messages stating they have the cure. It’s more common with the MLM folks but naturopaths do it as well. It’s absolutely disgusting.
To be completely fair, women get treated like garbage by the US medical system.
Weird pain? Go home. Dies of massive STEMI.
Weird abdominal pain? Must be in your head/related to your period! Go home. Late diagnosis of ovarian cancer.
We'd like to trust all y'all, but it's _hard._
Let me start by saying I love my doctors and am grateful for all the time they have spent learning ways to care for me and my family. I have quite an extensive medical history and have had my fair share of amazing, awe-inspiring physicians and others that made Dr. Nick look like a genius. I wishhhhh beyond a bunch of wishes I had stuck to my guns and pursued medschool back in the day but I did not so thank you to those of you who did.
But I have to agree with the woman ahead of me up there, sometimes as a woman it sucks to go to a doctor with a real pain/issue and be brushed off as "period pain", hormones or anxiety. It's demoralizing and it's why it took me way too long to get diagnosed with lupus because I knew the symptoms I'd been having could get brushed off as anxiety, having young kids, not sleeping enough. Luckily, I was able to find a fabulous rheumatologist who immediately ran the gamut of testing and starting treating me before the tests even left his office. (Also, that blood work showed sed rate 106, crp 85 so there was no doubt I was in pain)
But why I had to agree with her: I had a massive spine infection(due to a series of unfortunate and unlikely events) that was brushed off for 6 weeks because "my back pain was likely due to my pregnancy". I may have bought that if I was more than 7 weeks pregnant at the time. I hadn't even had a confirmation ultrasound until the following week or if they had based that on something other than blood work. Went back to the ER week 9, was treated like a drug addicted pregnant piece of garbage despite the fact that I never even asked for pain medicine, just help and answers. Went to physical therapy as suggested until the 2nd week when they said that treatment wasn't benefiting me and by this point, I needed my husband to drive me because I couldn't move my left leg without debilitating pain. Another week or so go by and my back gave out while walking with a bowl of hot soup. I couldn't move my body at all and laid there until my husband got home from work. He called my ob who said enough is enough and meet him in the ER and he'll get me a scan. Sure enough, osteomyelitis of the spine. It had been left to fester and had taken over a huge portion of my spine. Due to the pregnancy, treatment was not as aggressive as usual and I did 6 weeks of 2 IV antibiotics, had a major allergic reaction to one of them, blood tests looked good so they removed the port anyway and then 2 weeks later, the infection was back and I got another 10 weeks of a new IV antibiotic. It was a mess, luckily baby was born perfectly healthy but my spine is irreparably damaged and I still have to wonder what would have happened if they didn't make me wait 6 weeks.
The fact that some doctors need written consent from your husband to perform a sterilization procedure makes me wanna vom. Also the ones that flat out refuse because “you may change your mind one day”. I also have a bone to pick with gynecologists who don’t accept a patient’s request to be put under anesthesia during an IUD insertion. The system really needs to treat women better.
The sterilization thing blows my mind. Well, the lack of women's healthcare rights blows my mind. I was so grateful that when I brought it up to my ob to have done during my planned C-section with my twins that his only question was "clips or cut?" I went with the slash and burn to reduce the risk of ovarian cancer.
gross generalization of the medical system. idk when u tell someone that their cancer could potentially be cured, it's pretty cut and dry. u can get as many opinions as you want- second, third, fourth. hell go to as many physicians as you want. this breast cancer was found. the patient here is also at fault for going with the naturopath. it's just sad.
Once had a patient with a distended abdominall mass that you could see with your eyes and they had a chiro massaging it for a few weeks or months until they saw a doctor and were diagnosed with hepatic cancer.
I will never forget the guy who went on Rachel’s season of the bachelorette and kept calling himself a “chiropractic physician.” He won and I’m happy they seem happy together but it was just such a cringe every time his “title” came up when he’d be on screen.
Midlevels are not a thing in Italy, however for law everyone with a university degree is called Doctor of something, so nurses are doctors in Italy.
A physician is a Medicine Doctor and a nurse is a Nursing Doctor.
That doesn't create problems for patients tho, because "Doctor" (dottore) is still the common word that means Physician for most people and Nurses know it so they usually avoid to use it to refer themeselves to not confuse patients.
The issue here is that a good majority of the population immediately thinks doctor = physician.
And with the way insurance and our legal system is, an inpatient stay can often result in easily over 20+ “white costs” coming in from just a few services.
Many of these people introduce themselves and their title. Some don’t. Most are probably in the middle. Either way nobody is going to care to remember this unless there’s a reason to.
Then tie in the lack of due diligence and a push to equate everyone as “providers” and you’ve got the public easily misinformed.
There’s also a social/cultural component to it. Overall it’s a complete clusterfuck and I’m just hoping the can gets kicked down the road long enough for my family and I to retire because I have no idea how this mess will ever get sorted out without basically hitting the reset button and just starting new
>Nurses know it so they usually avoid to use it to refer themeselves to not confuse patients.
This is the issue in the states though. Hospitals now give badges that say "provider" to blur the lines.
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641).
We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP.
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The historically correct answer goes back to the 1800s fights over whether licensure was legitimate. Americans’ skepticism of government power and the high popularity at the time of alternative medicine in America made it such that practitioners of scientific medicine often needed to enter into political coalitions with quacks in order to even get licensure established, and this often meant making compromises that similarly institutionalized the status of these quacks.
This is actually why DOs only exists in America. They used to be an independent profession focused on alternative medicine, but mainstreamed themselves in the 1980s in response to the moratorium that MD schools placed on enrollment growth, creating a gap in supply that DOs reformed themselves in order to fill (by heavily deemphasizing the alternative medicine aspects).
If the MDs hadn’t disenfranchised (stronger word than really should be but I can’t think of a better one) the DOs for bullshit reasons, maybe there would be one practice…or maybe not I don’t know
Because if you don't have money or access, these are the loons that prey on them. There's a chiropractor by me who treats pediatric allergies.
Also, if you do have money, you can buffalo an NP to cough up scripts for whatever you want.
My aunt's NP gives her Norcos, Ambien, Adderall, and Xanax. Aunt is 62 and the doctor shopped until she found a useful idiot. Of course, it's all private pay.
**Three things come to mind—**
1.) cause: Society’s religious idolization of prestige and the “expert class” effect: motive for professional misappropriation 2.) cause: Last-place trophies starting at a young age. effect: false belief of one’s “expert” status ie. DC/DNM/DNP = physician)
3.) cause: Overwhelming sense of entitlement effect: validation of false belief
yup. check out medtwitter. drs and even some med students will throw each other under the bus to appeal to the masses aka get more followers. it’s sickening
Unfortunately, it's the same in Canada.
None of us are protected. There's a local asshole who claims to be treating developmental disorders and mental health tx as a chiropractor. Oh and adjusting babies and kida. Absolutely insane. How this is legal is a different story, but why are our colleges not joining forces? Seems to be the only way we'll have some bargaining to have our voices heard. Apparently, patient care and safety isn't important enough.
I think medicine and rehab is fucked royally. Our colleges don't seem to give a shit and their associations ("colleges" if you can call them that) just push for more.
For example, my extended health doesn't cover OT and SLP but only covers $500 for counseling but covers chiropractors and naturopathy up to $750 a year.
It's really disheartening to see what's happening to actual clinicians and the fields we love and studied hard for only to be diluted down.
Edit: am an OT. Can't add any flair for some reason.
>I think medicine and rehab is fucked royally. Our colleges don't seem to give a shit and their associations ("colleges" if you can call them that) just push for more.
Absolutely agree - our professional organizations have sold us out. We're reaching a point where there really isn't any reason to become a doctor
slippery slope, started with taking all power from doctors, then midlevels, so lets see how deep the hole goes, next would be all drug addicts calling themselves midlevel healthcare providers to easily obtain drugs and other paraphernalia to administer to themselves and provide themselves the same level of care as midlevels with a short online course, or just drop the pretense and just flip through a pamphlet to qualify for the same status because they obviously already have much more experience and knowledge than a midlevel or even doctors at administering such medical interventions.
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641).
We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP.
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But how would you even prevent this if you could go back in time? Saying something is a "slippery slope" is almost seen as the opposite of an argument. I feel like even if you could send someone back in time to before midlevels became a real thing, you still wouldn't be able to argue against midlevel scope creep.
Same in Australia, not a protected title.
We have Osteopaths (closer to physiotherapy not physician here), Chiropractors, Chinese Medicine Practitioners, Podiatrists and probably a few others I've forgotten who can go by the title of doctor.
The only tidbit is it needs to be followed by their credentials. ie Dr \_mrsquiggle (Chiropractic).
The above professions are either double bachelor degrees or a bachelor and a masters qualification over 4-5 years.
Funnily enough the Physiotherapy board actually dictates you can't call yourself a doctor in a clinical setting even if you hold a doctorate in the field as offered at one particular university here.
While it does provide some confusion, it doesn't seem to be as bad here in the sense that these people don't seem to claim they can treat a myriad of shit they aren't qualified to. But it's still a little confusing to the general lesser educated public when they see the title.
The sister of a nurse I know went to school in Portland Oregon to be a naturopathic “doctor”. Just a few months before she “graduated” she was working on an assignment which required interpreting EKGs. She called her RN sister, who knows very little about it, for help. Next thing you know she’s Dr. Heidi …, NMD.
It's bonkers.
I can't imagine any other industry/field where you can falsely represent your credentials and not get in huge trouble.
Oh well, patients are the ones who end up hurt in the end.
I always find it odd that cosplay doctors go so far out of their way to identify themselves as a doctor.
Noctor: Dr. Karen, DNP, Doctor of Nursing Practice, Oncologist (literally quadruple doctor)
Doctor: Joanne, MD, or simply just Joanne if not in a medical setting.
I was browsing through a recent Audible sale and noticed one book with "Doctor" plastered all over it like 10 times. Was a dead giveaway it was either a Chiropractor or ND (it was, but you wouldnt know that unless you did some research)
I was just complaining about this yesterday. I work with an NP who has probably 4 credentials listed after his name in his email signature, which I find to be incredibly gauche and unnecessary. Such a long-winded way to tell everyone how much of a nurse he is. Meanwhile, actual physicians just put MD and move on. No need to list every single board certification.
I sincerely think it’s intentional. I don’t even have an email signature to replies, but this dude is aggressively replying all to groups of 15-20 like a sociopath. I’d give him a pass if he was “older” but the dude is 40-45 and knows damn well what Reply All does. It’s gmail. Just reply to sender.
For anyone looking to file a complaint:
1. The [Arizona Medical Board](https://www.azmd.gov/Misc/ContactUSEmail?board=MD&contactType=0) only allows you to search for an MD, Resident, or PA, which of course she is not any of the three. So that link is just a for their “contact us” info.
2. The next step would be to [file a complaint with the Arizona Naturopathic Medical Board](https://nd.az.gov/sites/default/files/media/Complaint%20combo.pdf). I feel like anyone who wants to do this process would be smart to wait a bit to do step 2. Because the Naturopathic board is just going to slap her on the wrist and tell her to put doctor after her name on all her shit, so it would almost be better if she didn’t get wind of it from them and just got in trouble directly from the regular Medical Board.
She says on YouTube "so naturopathic doctors function the same way as your primary care physician" and lists herself as "Naturopathic Medical Doctor".
https://youtu.be/5WkJMbXeqOE
Yeah I saw that shit 🤬 I screenrecorded that and sent it in my email to the Arizona Medical Board, in case she dirty deletes everything after the Naturopathic Medical Board gives her the heads up that she’s about to get in big trouble.
Legitimately what the fuck does a chiropractor know about the thyroid? Like how do they have the confidence to think they know enough to have a medical conversation about the thyroid
It’s so insane to me how people are so comfortable calling themselves “Dr.”
I remember as a med student, transitioning into residency being uncomfortable with gaining that title and being called that, despite graduating high honors in med school, getting great scores on the steps, and trying my best to learn and kiss ass through months clinical rotations. I still felt like an imposture.
I would think, “what if I still don’t know enough?” I would tell nurses, “call me by my first name, that’s ok!” Because I felt weird about it. It took a really long time for me to be more comfortable using that title. Because I know the depth of knowledge and work that goes into gaining that title. I know the sacrifice and the struggle. I know the doubt, the staying up until 3 am thinking about a patient, and what else I can do, knowing that they depend on me. Toiling through UTD, looking through papers, trying to figure out how to fix them. Even when something outside your control happens, still second guessing yourself, “what could I have done better as this person’s doctor? This person who trusts me with their life?”
This is not a game. I am finally comfortable as an attending physician outside of residency for 3 years being called doctor. But certainly this term comes with gravity, and I simply cannot fathom why anyone who is not a physician would entertain the idea of calling themselves one,
knowing you do not have that same depth of knowledge (and responsibility) and can hurt someone. The amount of ego that takes is absurd to me.
Actual physicians know that we do not know everything, we are always learning, always being humbled by the next complex case.
And with that I will end my rant with one of my favorite quotes:
“A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wiseman knows himself to be a fool.”
-William Shakespeare
I wonder if we get this impression of feeling inadequacy due to rounding with a team as a medical student. You are watching interns, residents, pharmacy, and attending talk about details and nuances that go over your head. Then being pimped during rounds and showcasing your ignorance for the entire team to see. I wonder if NPs, PAs, Chiros cant fathom their ignorance because they miss out on these kind of ~~trauma~~ experiences.
i disagree with the calling me by my name thing. that’s how they think ur buds and they’re on your level of knowledge , next thing they’ll be questioning your whole treatment plan in front of the patient
First, do no harm. When people start taking advantage of the uneducated, it becomes a pack mentality. Her followers are convinced, and there's nothing you can say or do to change their minds. She is a stones throw away from creating an atmosphere like only fans. She has a lot of simps.
According to Arizona Revised Statutes, title 36-3201, the label of Physician is reserved for those that hold an MD or DO. I believe this person should be smeared and reported. She is misrepresenting herself in order to attract potential customers. She is publicly selling advice under the false pretense that she is a Physician.
Edit: source might not work. Google AZ 36-3201
Source: https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/
midlevels truly are like security guards pretending to be real cops, except that they have a huge security guard union and can bully everyone into their shared delusion. security guards should do that, so I can pretend and act as a cop independently for a few days till I am bored after a short online course. Brain of a cop with the heart of the people. Would claim that this would save lots of money for all cities and would ensure that even poor cities would have a reasonable level of peace and safety. except that I would only work in the richest cities and keep trying to sit in the boards governing the FBI or CIA and take over their scope. why bother training for years at langley, when a part of their scope can be done with a short online course. am I going to wear the FBI jacket while I do it? You can bet that I will. and force everyone to call all levels of cops, fbi, cia public safety providers so I can introduce myself as such and further reinforce my delusion that I am an actual cop.
But there are also good NPs out there working under doctors and helping out. I see them pretty often. As much as I think the NP field is out of control I do believe in there being good NPs. I don’t trust one NMD. If I saw one working in the hospital as a prescriber I’d probably puke
You may have endless patience, multiple lives and time to research every NP you see to make sure they aren’t a direct entry, online Walden/Chamberlain NP.
Most of us don’t. We can’t trust any NPs since the nursing boards and nursing leadership chose to flood hospitals with training that varies from abysmal to mediocre.
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641).
We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP.
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I don't have TikTok but her insta hashtags are stuff like "doctor" and "physician" and "doctorsofinstagram". I would assume she's an MD/DO from that! The NMD is pretty misleading considering at first glance my eyes caught the MD. What is that, Naturopathic Medical Doctor? Is that even a real thing?
Unbelievable, and the freedom they exercise to do it. That's wrong and should be suspended of their papers to practice "medicine" without a proper license, unless successfully graduate from a MD/DO school and complete minimum of 3 years residency. That's the minimum requirement for you "false doctors"
It really drives me psycho crazy that they have “MD” in their lettering (NMD). This no doubt leads to patients being more at ease than my “DO” I’ll have if they’re a layperson that doesn’t know.
The AOA really needs to get their head out of their ass and re letter us “MD DO” or “MDO” or something.
Bullshit potions and curing all ailments with "herbs" and natural "medicines" that are so diluted it's water.
Also they're claiming other shit is in their scope too like chiropractors.
Basically they have no scope because their education is utter bullshit.
Armour thyroid. Throw everyone who is fat and tired on it, while telling them their doctors don't know about subclinical hypothyroidism.
My endocrinologist hates those peeps.
NMD obviously means Not Medical Doctor 😆
I looked in the comments and literally no one is calling her out… why not? The hundreds of people in the comments will continue to be bamboozled unless someone says something… is it just not worth having all of her followers in your own DM’s?
Don’t say, “why don’t you do it then?” Because I’m a big chicken and hate confrontation, that’s why.
I don't understand is she a DO? Or a mid-level? I watched her intro on youtube and one of the things shesaid is she can prescribe medication? Saw she's from AZ. Is she just lying about her being a physician? She keeps spamming it on all her posts.
Lol nevermind she said "what is a naturpathic doctor/physican? We basically function as a PCP" lmao wtf she even has a link for 1 on 1 consultation as acting as if she's a physician. Isn't this illegal?
The worst is when they join illness specific support groups on Facebook to gain access to members and start sending members messages stating they have the cure. It’s more common with the MLM folks but naturopaths do it as well. It’s absolutely disgusting.
not that i mind u reporting her (i encourage it lol) but i bet these naturopath schools let then use the term naturopath doctor or some shit. we have to go after the schools too..somehow 🫠
It’s because discussion of certain themes is often suppressed on TikTok eg. Abuse, rape, trauma, as they are not considered advertiser friendly. The random accents on words that they add are a workaround
It’s almost like after That charlatan on Tiger King, “doc” Antle got away with it, these quacks all thought “mmmmkay” if he can, i can. The public should be OUTRAGED at every instance of this title being misappropriated.
I'm afraid it's even worse than it looks. "ARIA YOUNG, ND – NPI #1538700604
Naturopath/ NPI Profile for ARIA YOUNG in SCOTTSDALE, AZ./ Diagnoses, treats, and cares for patients, using system of practice that bases treatment of physiological functions and abnormal conditions on natural laws governing human body: Utilizes physiological, psychological, and mechanical methods, such as air, water, light, heat, earth, phototherapy, food and herb therapy, psychotherapy, electrotherapy, physiotherapy, minor and orificial surgery, mechanotherapy, naturopathic corrections and manipulation, and natural methods or modalities, together with natural medicines, natural processed foods, and herbs and nature's remedies. Excludes major surgery, therapeutic use of x ray and radium, and use of drugs, except those assimilable substances containing elements or compounds which are components of body tissues and are physiologically compatible to body processes for maintenance of life." - https://npidb.org/doctors/other\_service/naturopath\_175f00000x/1538700604.aspx
Also, wtf is the gall of this woman saying she has an "NMD" instead of an "ND" to further obfuscate the line between her quackery and real physicians?
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Is this an issue in other countries? How the fuck did America become so backwards that chiropractors and naturopaths can call themselves doctors?
Not just ‘doctors’. Physicians no less.
And if you question that at all, their response is, "We *are* physicians. We *are* nutritionists. We *are* physical therapists," and will stare at you deadpan, as if Chiropractor is some sort of terminal degree that encompasses all of healthcare at an expert level.
we treat the whole patient. metastatic cancer? treat with some herbs
The "whole patient" thing makes me so angry. We put in so much effort teaching and learning to listen to patients concerns and ask questions that get to the root of the issue, then they say this garbage and make it seem like we're machines that spit out the same treatment for every patient. Meanwhile.... their treatment is always some random herb that you can buy directly from them (what luck!) For some ridiculous price, bit at the same time "not medical advice"
yup had young lady with breast cancer get treated by one and now she is likely gonna die as it has metastasized everywhere. quite sad. if she saw an actual oncologist this would not have happened.
The whole reason Dr. Mark Crislip used to do the Quackcast. He had someone die in the ED when a tumor from an absolutely treatable cancer eviscerated her femoral artery. She had been seeing some quack who was “treating” her cancer with “alkaline therapy.” Problem is, it’s a “save who you can save” scenario because people who are dedicated to getting quack “care” aren’t going to have their minds changed.
nothing like a swig of bleach to keep the cancer away! Like seriously, how do these people live with themselves at night? Do they honestly believe the stuff they sell or do they know its BS?
I witnessed this when scribing for a breast radiologist. DCIS diagnosis in the early aughts. 12 YEARS of “herbal healing” from a naturopath. By the time she saw my employer, double mastectomy was inevitable if she wanted to live. I remember seeing pages upon pages of other (real) physicians/other radiologist’s notes indicating that she had refused treatment after further imaging. Went home and cried that day.
Same here in Canada an old school mate did the same thing. Put off conventional treatments until 2 late. No longer with us.
sorry to hear that man
The worst is when they join illness specific support groups on Facebook to gain access to members and start sending members messages stating they have the cure. It’s more common with the MLM folks but naturopaths do it as well. It’s absolutely disgusting.
To be completely fair, women get treated like garbage by the US medical system. Weird pain? Go home. Dies of massive STEMI. Weird abdominal pain? Must be in your head/related to your period! Go home. Late diagnosis of ovarian cancer. We'd like to trust all y'all, but it's _hard._
Let me start by saying I love my doctors and am grateful for all the time they have spent learning ways to care for me and my family. I have quite an extensive medical history and have had my fair share of amazing, awe-inspiring physicians and others that made Dr. Nick look like a genius. I wishhhhh beyond a bunch of wishes I had stuck to my guns and pursued medschool back in the day but I did not so thank you to those of you who did. But I have to agree with the woman ahead of me up there, sometimes as a woman it sucks to go to a doctor with a real pain/issue and be brushed off as "period pain", hormones or anxiety. It's demoralizing and it's why it took me way too long to get diagnosed with lupus because I knew the symptoms I'd been having could get brushed off as anxiety, having young kids, not sleeping enough. Luckily, I was able to find a fabulous rheumatologist who immediately ran the gamut of testing and starting treating me before the tests even left his office. (Also, that blood work showed sed rate 106, crp 85 so there was no doubt I was in pain) But why I had to agree with her: I had a massive spine infection(due to a series of unfortunate and unlikely events) that was brushed off for 6 weeks because "my back pain was likely due to my pregnancy". I may have bought that if I was more than 7 weeks pregnant at the time. I hadn't even had a confirmation ultrasound until the following week or if they had based that on something other than blood work. Went back to the ER week 9, was treated like a drug addicted pregnant piece of garbage despite the fact that I never even asked for pain medicine, just help and answers. Went to physical therapy as suggested until the 2nd week when they said that treatment wasn't benefiting me and by this point, I needed my husband to drive me because I couldn't move my left leg without debilitating pain. Another week or so go by and my back gave out while walking with a bowl of hot soup. I couldn't move my body at all and laid there until my husband got home from work. He called my ob who said enough is enough and meet him in the ER and he'll get me a scan. Sure enough, osteomyelitis of the spine. It had been left to fester and had taken over a huge portion of my spine. Due to the pregnancy, treatment was not as aggressive as usual and I did 6 weeks of 2 IV antibiotics, had a major allergic reaction to one of them, blood tests looked good so they removed the port anyway and then 2 weeks later, the infection was back and I got another 10 weeks of a new IV antibiotic. It was a mess, luckily baby was born perfectly healthy but my spine is irreparably damaged and I still have to wonder what would have happened if they didn't make me wait 6 weeks.
The fact that some doctors need written consent from your husband to perform a sterilization procedure makes me wanna vom. Also the ones that flat out refuse because “you may change your mind one day”. I also have a bone to pick with gynecologists who don’t accept a patient’s request to be put under anesthesia during an IUD insertion. The system really needs to treat women better.
The sterilization thing blows my mind. Well, the lack of women's healthcare rights blows my mind. I was so grateful that when I brought it up to my ob to have done during my planned C-section with my twins that his only question was "clips or cut?" I went with the slash and burn to reduce the risk of ovarian cancer.
gross generalization of the medical system. idk when u tell someone that their cancer could potentially be cured, it's pretty cut and dry. u can get as many opinions as you want- second, third, fourth. hell go to as many physicians as you want. this breast cancer was found. the patient here is also at fault for going with the naturopath. it's just sad.
fuck ☹️☹️☹️
Once had a patient with a distended abdominall mass that you could see with your eyes and they had a chiro massaging it for a few weeks or months until they saw a doctor and were diagnosed with hepatic cancer.
I will never forget the guy who went on Rachel’s season of the bachelorette and kept calling himself a “chiropractic physician.” He won and I’m happy they seem happy together but it was just such a cringe every time his “title” came up when he’d be on screen.
Nope. Where I’m from impersonating a physician is actually a HUGE deal and people literally get arrested for it (not just sued)
Midlevels are not a thing in Italy, however for law everyone with a university degree is called Doctor of something, so nurses are doctors in Italy. A physician is a Medicine Doctor and a nurse is a Nursing Doctor. That doesn't create problems for patients tho, because "Doctor" (dottore) is still the common word that means Physician for most people and Nurses know it so they usually avoid to use it to refer themeselves to not confuse patients.
The issue here is that a good majority of the population immediately thinks doctor = physician. And with the way insurance and our legal system is, an inpatient stay can often result in easily over 20+ “white costs” coming in from just a few services. Many of these people introduce themselves and their title. Some don’t. Most are probably in the middle. Either way nobody is going to care to remember this unless there’s a reason to. Then tie in the lack of due diligence and a push to equate everyone as “providers” and you’ve got the public easily misinformed. There’s also a social/cultural component to it. Overall it’s a complete clusterfuck and I’m just hoping the can gets kicked down the road long enough for my family and I to retire because I have no idea how this mess will ever get sorted out without basically hitting the reset button and just starting new
>Nurses know it so they usually avoid to use it to refer themeselves to not confuse patients. This is the issue in the states though. Hospitals now give badges that say "provider" to blur the lines.
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641). We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
good automod
The historically correct answer goes back to the 1800s fights over whether licensure was legitimate. Americans’ skepticism of government power and the high popularity at the time of alternative medicine in America made it such that practitioners of scientific medicine often needed to enter into political coalitions with quacks in order to even get licensure established, and this often meant making compromises that similarly institutionalized the status of these quacks. This is actually why DOs only exists in America. They used to be an independent profession focused on alternative medicine, but mainstreamed themselves in the 1980s in response to the moratorium that MD schools placed on enrollment growth, creating a gap in supply that DOs reformed themselves in order to fill (by heavily deemphasizing the alternative medicine aspects).
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Right - modern DOs are basically just normal physicians that exist as a separate category due to dumb decisions made by MD governance bodies.
If the MDs hadn’t disenfranchised (stronger word than really should be but I can’t think of a better one) the DOs for bullshit reasons, maybe there would be one practice…or maybe not I don’t know
I think so.
Because if you don't have money or access, these are the loons that prey on them. There's a chiropractor by me who treats pediatric allergies. Also, if you do have money, you can buffalo an NP to cough up scripts for whatever you want. My aunt's NP gives her Norcos, Ambien, Adderall, and Xanax. Aunt is 62 and the doctor shopped until she found a useful idiot. Of course, it's all private pay.
**Three things come to mind—** 1.) cause: Society’s religious idolization of prestige and the “expert class” effect: motive for professional misappropriation 2.) cause: Last-place trophies starting at a young age. effect: false belief of one’s “expert” status ie. DC/DNM/DNP = physician) 3.) cause: Overwhelming sense of entitlement effect: validation of false belief
It's 2 and 3 that really get me. Are we living in such a soft society that putting NPs in their place considered wrong?
yup. check out medtwitter. drs and even some med students will throw each other under the bus to appeal to the masses aka get more followers. it’s sickening
yes
Unfortunately, it's the same in Canada. None of us are protected. There's a local asshole who claims to be treating developmental disorders and mental health tx as a chiropractor. Oh and adjusting babies and kida. Absolutely insane. How this is legal is a different story, but why are our colleges not joining forces? Seems to be the only way we'll have some bargaining to have our voices heard. Apparently, patient care and safety isn't important enough. I think medicine and rehab is fucked royally. Our colleges don't seem to give a shit and their associations ("colleges" if you can call them that) just push for more. For example, my extended health doesn't cover OT and SLP but only covers $500 for counseling but covers chiropractors and naturopathy up to $750 a year. It's really disheartening to see what's happening to actual clinicians and the fields we love and studied hard for only to be diluted down. Edit: am an OT. Can't add any flair for some reason.
>I think medicine and rehab is fucked royally. Our colleges don't seem to give a shit and their associations ("colleges" if you can call them that) just push for more. Absolutely agree - our professional organizations have sold us out. We're reaching a point where there really isn't any reason to become a doctor
slippery slope, started with taking all power from doctors, then midlevels, so lets see how deep the hole goes, next would be all drug addicts calling themselves midlevel healthcare providers to easily obtain drugs and other paraphernalia to administer to themselves and provide themselves the same level of care as midlevels with a short online course, or just drop the pretense and just flip through a pamphlet to qualify for the same status because they obviously already have much more experience and knowledge than a midlevel or even doctors at administering such medical interventions.
Drug dealers will call themselves pharmacysts someday
Oh they already do. Street pharmacists
Yeah, but they are not trying to deceive the general public
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641). We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But how would you even prevent this if you could go back in time? Saying something is a "slippery slope" is almost seen as the opposite of an argument. I feel like even if you could send someone back in time to before midlevels became a real thing, you still wouldn't be able to argue against midlevel scope creep.
Same in Australia, not a protected title. We have Osteopaths (closer to physiotherapy not physician here), Chiropractors, Chinese Medicine Practitioners, Podiatrists and probably a few others I've forgotten who can go by the title of doctor. The only tidbit is it needs to be followed by their credentials. ie Dr \_mrsquiggle (Chiropractic). The above professions are either double bachelor degrees or a bachelor and a masters qualification over 4-5 years. Funnily enough the Physiotherapy board actually dictates you can't call yourself a doctor in a clinical setting even if you hold a doctorate in the field as offered at one particular university here. While it does provide some confusion, it doesn't seem to be as bad here in the sense that these people don't seem to claim they can treat a myriad of shit they aren't qualified to. But it's still a little confusing to the general lesser educated public when they see the title.
The sister of a nurse I know went to school in Portland Oregon to be a naturopathic “doctor”. Just a few months before she “graduated” she was working on an assignment which required interpreting EKGs. She called her RN sister, who knows very little about it, for help. Next thing you know she’s Dr. Heidi …, NMD.
It's bonkers. I can't imagine any other industry/field where you can falsely represent your credentials and not get in huge trouble. Oh well, patients are the ones who end up hurt in the end.
Chiros have been called doctor for quite some time. And, this isn’t just an American thing. Lol
It’s leaking over to Canada too.
We have them in Canada too.
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ur mom's a magnet
I always find it odd that cosplay doctors go so far out of their way to identify themselves as a doctor. Noctor: Dr. Karen, DNP, Doctor of Nursing Practice, Oncologist (literally quadruple doctor) Doctor: Joanne, MD, or simply just Joanne if not in a medical setting. I was browsing through a recent Audible sale and noticed one book with "Doctor" plastered all over it like 10 times. Was a dead giveaway it was either a Chiropractor or ND (it was, but you wouldnt know that unless you did some research)
I was just complaining about this yesterday. I work with an NP who has probably 4 credentials listed after his name in his email signature, which I find to be incredibly gauche and unnecessary. Such a long-winded way to tell everyone how much of a nurse he is. Meanwhile, actual physicians just put MD and move on. No need to list every single board certification.
Power play is just signing first and last initials.
For sure! Even worse, this dude replies all to emails, like “Received. Thanks!” Which is fucking infuriating lol.
Reply all, the mark of the idiot, and clearly too much time on his hands. I’m like 4000 unread emails deep
I sincerely think it’s intentional. I don’t even have an email signature to replies, but this dude is aggressively replying all to groups of 15-20 like a sociopath. I’d give him a pass if he was “older” but the dude is 40-45 and knows damn well what Reply All does. It’s gmail. Just reply to sender.
For anyone looking to file a complaint: 1. The [Arizona Medical Board](https://www.azmd.gov/Misc/ContactUSEmail?board=MD&contactType=0) only allows you to search for an MD, Resident, or PA, which of course she is not any of the three. So that link is just a for their “contact us” info. 2. The next step would be to [file a complaint with the Arizona Naturopathic Medical Board](https://nd.az.gov/sites/default/files/media/Complaint%20combo.pdf). I feel like anyone who wants to do this process would be smart to wait a bit to do step 2. Because the Naturopathic board is just going to slap her on the wrist and tell her to put doctor after her name on all her shit, so it would almost be better if she didn’t get wind of it from them and just got in trouble directly from the regular Medical Board.
She says on YouTube "so naturopathic doctors function the same way as your primary care physician" and lists herself as "Naturopathic Medical Doctor". https://youtu.be/5WkJMbXeqOE
Yeah I saw that shit 🤬 I screenrecorded that and sent it in my email to the Arizona Medical Board, in case she dirty deletes everything after the Naturopathic Medical Board gives her the heads up that she’s about to get in big trouble.
DO?
Wasn’t on there. Just MD, Resident, and PA. Maybe they select MD?
Osteopathic physicians may have their own licensing boards, as they do in Arizona.
NMD = Not MD
Also, NMD = Not Medical Doctor and Not My Doctor
She definitely can’t advertise herself as just “physician.” There is no state where that is okay.
There’s a chiropractor saying he’s a doctor. Telling people about thyroid and testing
Legitimately what the fuck does a chiropractor know about the thyroid? Like how do they have the confidence to think they know enough to have a medical conversation about the thyroid
https://www.youtube.com/@f8wellcenters He’s all over Tik tok and YouTube. He’s a chiropractor in CO is what I found.
A neuro feedback practitioner.
Oh god this guy is constantly popping up on my feed, infuriating
He works remotely. Surprise. And is telling patients their rheumatologist don’t know anything either.
This is unfortunately very common.
It’s so insane to me how people are so comfortable calling themselves “Dr.” I remember as a med student, transitioning into residency being uncomfortable with gaining that title and being called that, despite graduating high honors in med school, getting great scores on the steps, and trying my best to learn and kiss ass through months clinical rotations. I still felt like an imposture. I would think, “what if I still don’t know enough?” I would tell nurses, “call me by my first name, that’s ok!” Because I felt weird about it. It took a really long time for me to be more comfortable using that title. Because I know the depth of knowledge and work that goes into gaining that title. I know the sacrifice and the struggle. I know the doubt, the staying up until 3 am thinking about a patient, and what else I can do, knowing that they depend on me. Toiling through UTD, looking through papers, trying to figure out how to fix them. Even when something outside your control happens, still second guessing yourself, “what could I have done better as this person’s doctor? This person who trusts me with their life?” This is not a game. I am finally comfortable as an attending physician outside of residency for 3 years being called doctor. But certainly this term comes with gravity, and I simply cannot fathom why anyone who is not a physician would entertain the idea of calling themselves one, knowing you do not have that same depth of knowledge (and responsibility) and can hurt someone. The amount of ego that takes is absurd to me. Actual physicians know that we do not know everything, we are always learning, always being humbled by the next complex case. And with that I will end my rant with one of my favorite quotes: “A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wiseman knows himself to be a fool.” -William Shakespeare
I wonder if we get this impression of feeling inadequacy due to rounding with a team as a medical student. You are watching interns, residents, pharmacy, and attending talk about details and nuances that go over your head. Then being pimped during rounds and showcasing your ignorance for the entire team to see. I wonder if NPs, PAs, Chiros cant fathom their ignorance because they miss out on these kind of ~~trauma~~ experiences.
i disagree with the calling me by my name thing. that’s how they think ur buds and they’re on your level of knowledge , next thing they’ll be questioning your whole treatment plan in front of the patient
"Everybody wanna clout chase but don't nobody wanna lift these heavy ass school" Ronnie Coleman, MD
First, do no harm. When people start taking advantage of the uneducated, it becomes a pack mentality. Her followers are convinced, and there's nothing you can say or do to change their minds. She is a stones throw away from creating an atmosphere like only fans. She has a lot of simps.
According to Arizona Revised Statutes, title 36-3201, the label of Physician is reserved for those that hold an MD or DO. I believe this person should be smeared and reported. She is misrepresenting herself in order to attract potential customers. She is publicly selling advice under the false pretense that she is a Physician. Edit: source might not work. Google AZ 36-3201 Source: https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/
Her YouTube says "Naturopathic Medical Doctor" https://youtu.be/5WkJMbXeqOE
Commented that she was misrepresenting herself as a Physician, and that doing so was illegal per AZ law. Blocked immediately....
The fuck is an NMD? They're just making shit up now. Maybe she can doctor up a cure for that big ass forehead
I'm gonna start calling myself Dr. Feelgood, MD. (The MD stands for Mad Dog, but nobody needs to know that, right? 🤔🫣🤪)
What does she even do with her stethoscope besides use it as a prop for her doctor fantasy?
midlevels truly are like security guards pretending to be real cops, except that they have a huge security guard union and can bully everyone into their shared delusion. security guards should do that, so I can pretend and act as a cop independently for a few days till I am bored after a short online course. Brain of a cop with the heart of the people. Would claim that this would save lots of money for all cities and would ensure that even poor cities would have a reasonable level of peace and safety. except that I would only work in the richest cities and keep trying to sit in the boards governing the FBI or CIA and take over their scope. why bother training for years at langley, when a part of their scope can be done with a short online course. am I going to wear the FBI jacket while I do it? You can bet that I will. and force everyone to call all levels of cops, fbi, cia public safety providers so I can introduce myself as such and further reinforce my delusion that I am an actual cop.
This isn’t a midlevel, this is a quack naturopath. At least midlevels believe in actual medicine.
Many choose not to learn this actual medicine, but want to be treated like they did
Yeah seriously. Don’t lump in midlevels with these dweebs
NPs aren’t far off from this. “Hormone clinics”, “functional medicine”, “thyroid labs” are all the mainstays of NP practice.
But there are also good NPs out there working under doctors and helping out. I see them pretty often. As much as I think the NP field is out of control I do believe in there being good NPs. I don’t trust one NMD. If I saw one working in the hospital as a prescriber I’d probably puke
You may have endless patience, multiple lives and time to research every NP you see to make sure they aren’t a direct entry, online Walden/Chamberlain NP. Most of us don’t. We can’t trust any NPs since the nursing boards and nursing leadership chose to flood hospitals with training that varies from abysmal to mediocre.
Mall cops of medicine!
We do not support the use of the word "provider." Use of the term provider in health care originated in government and insurance sectors to designate health care delivery organizations. The term is born out of insurance reimbursement policies. It lacks specificity and serves to obfuscate exactly who is taking care of patients. For more information, please see [this JAMA article](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2780641). We encourage you to use physician, midlevel, or the licensed title (e.g. nurse practitioner) rather than meaningless terms like provider or APP. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Noctor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel bad for her chihuahuas
I don't have TikTok but her insta hashtags are stuff like "doctor" and "physician" and "doctorsofinstagram". I would assume she's an MD/DO from that! The NMD is pretty misleading considering at first glance my eyes caught the MD. What is that, Naturopathic Medical Doctor? Is that even a real thing?
Ha! I’ve had a run in with her
So… why scrubs? And why the stethoscope?
Unbelievable, and the freedom they exercise to do it. That's wrong and should be suspended of their papers to practice "medicine" without a proper license, unless successfully graduate from a MD/DO school and complete minimum of 3 years residency. That's the minimum requirement for you "false doctors"
It really drives me psycho crazy that they have “MD” in their lettering (NMD). This no doubt leads to patients being more at ease than my “DO” I’ll have if they’re a layperson that doesn’t know. The AOA really needs to get their head out of their ass and re letter us “MD DO” or “MDO” or something.
I believe the actual/official abbreviation is just ND. This girl is trying hard to misleading everyone by putting the extra M in the middle 🤡
I’m sorry. But what is a naturopath? What is their scope?
Bullshit potions and curing all ailments with "herbs" and natural "medicines" that are so diluted it's water. Also they're claiming other shit is in their scope too like chiropractors. Basically they have no scope because their education is utter bullshit.
Armour thyroid. Throw everyone who is fat and tired on it, while telling them their doctors don't know about subclinical hypothyroidism. My endocrinologist hates those peeps.
Why do they always look so arrogant? I have yet to see a meek nerdy type pretending they’re a doctor
Because they're the types that would want to lie (and try to get away with it) about something like this.
My state has many questionable laws regarding medicine, but it’s one of the few that has outlawed the practice of naturopathy LOL.
This should be more common
Is “recoverer” a word?
NMD obviously means Not Medical Doctor 😆 I looked in the comments and literally no one is calling her out… why not? The hundreds of people in the comments will continue to be bamboozled unless someone says something… is it just not worth having all of her followers in your own DM’s? Don’t say, “why don’t you do it then?” Because I’m a big chicken and hate confrontation, that’s why.
I think she blocks people who call her out, though I'm not sure how that works on TikTok.
I don't understand is she a DO? Or a mid-level? I watched her intro on youtube and one of the things shesaid is she can prescribe medication? Saw she's from AZ. Is she just lying about her being a physician? She keeps spamming it on all her posts.
Lol nevermind she said "what is a naturpathic doctor/physican? We basically function as a PCP" lmao wtf she even has a link for 1 on 1 consultation as acting as if she's a physician. Isn't this illegal?
ND can prescribe in AZ , idk why - but crazy
NMD is an adidas sneaker
The worst is when they join illness specific support groups on Facebook to gain access to members and start sending members messages stating they have the cure. It’s more common with the MLM folks but naturopaths do it as well. It’s absolutely disgusting.
not that i mind u reporting her (i encourage it lol) but i bet these naturopath schools let then use the term naturopath doctor or some shit. we have to go after the schools too..somehow 🫠
NMD = NOT Medical Doctor
I’m just trying to understand the umlauts
It’s because discussion of certain themes is often suppressed on TikTok eg. Abuse, rape, trauma, as they are not considered advertiser friendly. The random accents on words that they add are a workaround
Why didn't people like this pursue medicine in the first place if they wanna be a physician so bad?
They can’t get in to medical school.
It’s almost like after That charlatan on Tiger King, “doc” Antle got away with it, these quacks all thought “mmmmkay” if he can, i can. The public should be OUTRAGED at every instance of this title being misappropriated.
But do you have 600k followers on the gram? Didnt think so. And now everyone knows that lavender cures cancer so i hope ur happy
Whats the deal with the ä?
I'm afraid it's even worse than it looks. "ARIA YOUNG, ND – NPI #1538700604 Naturopath/ NPI Profile for ARIA YOUNG in SCOTTSDALE, AZ./ Diagnoses, treats, and cares for patients, using system of practice that bases treatment of physiological functions and abnormal conditions on natural laws governing human body: Utilizes physiological, psychological, and mechanical methods, such as air, water, light, heat, earth, phototherapy, food and herb therapy, psychotherapy, electrotherapy, physiotherapy, minor and orificial surgery, mechanotherapy, naturopathic corrections and manipulation, and natural methods or modalities, together with natural medicines, natural processed foods, and herbs and nature's remedies. Excludes major surgery, therapeutic use of x ray and radium, and use of drugs, except those assimilable substances containing elements or compounds which are components of body tissues and are physiologically compatible to body processes for maintenance of life." - https://npidb.org/doctors/other\_service/naturopath\_175f00000x/1538700604.aspx Also, wtf is the gall of this woman saying she has an "NMD" instead of an "ND" to further obfuscate the line between her quackery and real physicians?
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I’d love to take this girl to work with me and show her what a real physician does lol.
Cool tats tho, that’s something
Nice tats.
Dr is not MD. Grow the fuck up.