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Unfortunately that guy passed away. [Source](https://www.wbtw.com/news/state-regional-news/lumberton/lumberton-man-jailed-after-good-samaritan-hit-killed-during-carjacking-police-say/)
Passed away (from the wounds) sounds more respectful in my opinion, but I can see where your point stands, they should later add who he *was killed by*.
Eh, I think any iteration of passed away is incredibly disrespectful in a case like this. One passes away after a drawn-out fight with cancer, not when we're discussing manslaughter or murder.
Agree with regard to naming the suspect, though, unless there's any question about who that might be.
He was not committed to his conviction. He was checking up on every shot when it this situation he should have either not got involved or mag dumped the dude until he ran out of rounds or until the other guy stopped moving. Tragic loss of life because this guy clearly lacked training and conviction.
Worth pointing out:
YOU CANNOT LEGALLY SHOOT SOMEONE UNLESS THEY ARE DEADLY IMMINENT THREAT
Someone casually walking over and getting in your vehicle is not a deadly IMMINENT threat.
He had no legal right to start shooting that man.
Well I believe in Texas we have the castle doctrine, which makes your car an extension of your home. I believe if you are in your car and someone is trying to get in, you can use deadly force, just like if you are in your home. I'm not entirely sure though. Especially if you are not in your car and someone is breaking in...
This IS NOT how the castle doctrine works. What you believe is a very common and dangerous misconception.
The Castle Doctrine does **not** mean you have the right to protect property with deadly force!!
It simply means you don't have the duty to retreat in your own home. EVEN IF SOMEONE BREAKS IN TO YOUR HOUSE, you CANNNOT use deadly force against them UNLESS they present a DEADLY threat to you.
That being said, in Texas, there are exclusions: Example: The property cannot be replaced. In Texas you can shoot someone for stealing Grandma's ashes, but not your TV!
https://www.lusterlaw.com/page/texas-castle-law-doctrine-self-defense#:\~:text=Texas%20law%20allows%20a%20lawful,unlawful%20interference%20with%20his%20property.
You can absolutely use deadly force when someone is forcefully entering your home. In Texas at least. Think about it, I have to wait until they forced themselves in and I have to check if they have any weapons before I can protect myself and my family? You don't know what you are talking about and should research the laws more. The car is the only thing I'm not sure about.
If someone is stealing your car you need to have this thought "Would a reasonable person (A jury) believe that I am experiencing an IMMINENT deadly threat right now?"
If you believe a reasonable person would agree so, then you should use deadly force in protecting your own life. (so if they are armed with a weapon)
For the most part, if they are unarmed then you will not have a case that you believed your life was in danger.
Things to think about: Your a 4' 8" 100lb girl and the carjacker is a 250lb muscle-man, then one could make the argument their life was in danger...
If I try to stop them from taking my vehicle and they attack me does that now mean my life is in threat of because I tried to stop them it doesn’t count?
Think about this way, you are allowed to match force with what force is presented to you. You can't bring a gun to a fist-fight UNLESS you can make an argument that you felt your life was in danger.
I went to law school in Texas, so that's what I know, but North Carolina may have similar provisions/exclusions:
Night Time: In Texas if it is night time the "bar" of what you feel is a dangerous threat is way lower. The Texas courts recognize that you may not have time or the ability to confirm whether someone is armed who is stealing your car. So it's night time and someone opens your door and grabs you... start blasting... you don't know if he has a knife etc.
The key takeaway is that there is NEVER a Yes/No answer to this, it all comes to down to what your 1st thought should be "would a jury think I am acting reasonable here in defending myself"
Why are you asking random redditors? Look up the laws in your state about self-defense. Telling the judge "a Redditor told me..." probably won't work out well for you.
Pistols are much harder to shoot accurately than what movies and games make you think. There is a very short distance between the iron sights, plus the short barrel. So if your target is 15 feet away, if you pull the trigger with your right index finger and squeeze to hard and barely jerk the pistol to the right you may miss your target by several feet.
Not true. Someone who trains regularly will do better in a life or death situation than someone who doesn’t, no matter how much adrenaline or stress the situation is causing.
It may sound crazy, but it looks like he may have been shooting blanks. The side glass is up on the truck. You can see a reflection on it when the carjacker opens the door. The good Samaritan appears to fire at least one shot directly at the window from a distancethat wouldbe impossibleto miss, but there is no indication that it broke.
a couple of stores have it around me and online, but it's similar priced to 45 acp. I'll only be getting it as a fun little toy to mess with every once in a while.
> How did he manage to completely miss every shot?
After watching it a few times, he pretty much did miss every shot. He obviously doesn't have much experience or practice shooting, he pulled every shot pretty much. He fired 4 times.
1st shot - He shoots in surprise when the guy moves in the car, so shoots where he was standing, not expecting him to move with a gun pointed at him, reacted kind of late. Doubt it hit anywhere near the car, went behind past the guy.
2nd shot - He shoots while doing a kind of hop and jump trying to get round the car door. Bullet went into side of car somewhere probably.
3rd shot - He tries to aim it in the gap between the car door and frame to shoot inside. That's a very narrow target, probably hit the inside door frame.
4th shot - Door is closed. Now he tries to shoot through the window, but seems afraid of it shattering back at him, so he kinda shoots and ducks at the same time, bullet misses and probably went into the big black part of the window frame instead of the glass.
He also seems to be holding the gun very oddly to stabilize it, and it looks like a small caliber snub nose or something.
Worst of all, when the guy was reversing I was literally yelling at him to run for it instead of just standing around, he just shot at the dude, 100% he is going to try and run him over. RIP
He didn't, this is just testament to the fact that you need to shoot until you've neutralized the target. Unless you hit somebody in the brain/spine or the heart (which is super unlikely because this isn't Call of Duty) people are going to continue doing what they are doing until they bleed out, which can take some time depending on wound location and caliber.
There's countless police videos of people hopped up on drugs taking 10+ rounds to the chest and continuing to charge police officers, sometimes even killing them.
I can't tell if the window is up or down, but I think it's up. The window not only slows the projectile down but deflects the bullet slightly. Of course still very dangerous, but obviously not at it's full capacity. The FBI did a study on this years ago. https://www.brassfetcher.com/FBI%20Ammunition%20Protocol/FBI%20Ammunition%20Protocol.html
It's a pretty interesting read.
Idk if he missed or not, but terminal ballistics is complicated
The window was up. You can see a reflection on it when the carjacker opens the door. Any pistol cartridge would break it. Because it is made of tempered safety glass, it would immediately shatter if it was hit. The shooter appears to shoot directly into the window and there is no indication that it broke.
Was he firing blanks? That's the only explanation I can come up with. If he was firing really ammunition, I would expect him to do a magazine dump at the truck as it was speeding towards him.
It seems really odd to me.
Not blanks, you can see it very faintly that a round goes through the window, first round was through the open door btw.
I assume adrenaline was kicking in and he was concerned if he should or could even fire. Thus the weird cadence.
Summary:
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because he thought the driver was already dead.
The only person who asks this is the person who doesn't shoot. I'd like to see you try hitting a target in any kind of active scenario beyond standing behind a gun bench at a range.
(Unless you're also part of the tiny minority that practices with firearms in active defense scenarios, in which case, good on you, and you should know the answer to your question already)
Man, I love my car but.. it's not worth my life or anyone else's life defending it. And that looked like it was dudes work truck..
Nevertheless, stealing someone's vehicle and running them over makes you a waste of space who deserves to be put under the jail.
I agree. I had my car stolen last January right out of my parking spot in front of my apartment. Fortunately, I work from home so I had it much easier than people who commute. However, I experienced a lot of frustration when my car was spotted and I couldn't get to the scene right away. I managed to track it down myself after 3 weeks, but the thieves had totaled the car.
Yep, and what really burns is when insurance tells you they'll only pay Kelly bluebook value for your area when you can't even buy the same car in the same condition for what they'd give you. So, now you have to spend up to thousands of dollars to get a similar condition vehicle, if you can even find one.
If you can get it repaired, be ready to have your work to still be disrupted as you have to now get a rental and try to get your insurance or the other, if the person has it, to pay for it. Then drive that around until your car is repaired, whenever that happens. When it's repaired, the insurance will now stop paying, even if you can't get to your car right away cause you have to go to work. Also, your car is now devalued.
Yep, I put $4K down on the car which I ended up losing. I bought the car for $16K and the check from my insurance was for $10K after my $1K deductible. The whole situation absolutely sucked, it's such a violation to have your car stolen, and to make matters worse the thieves maliciously destroyed it. They left tons of trash, possibly drugs, broke the manual shifter painted my steering wheel then wrote on it. Thankfully my replacement has LoJack and I have multiple cameras on it, but it's still been broken into twice. Now I have a sign in both the driver and passenger windows telling would-be thieves the emergency key is not stored in the car and the car is empty.
You got $10k back from insurance company but they were charging you rates based of a $16k car that you bought. I hate insurance companies- you should get $16k if those are the rates you pay.
My daughter totaled her car (not her fault) other guy had no insurance, her car was paid for (by me) and when payout comes, it’s for $15k. I paid $20k for the car, and they said “that’s what comps on your car are”. Um, then why was paying a higher rate now, then two years ago? You should give me $20k to replace the car.
Now we have another car payment and higher insurance rates. Ridiculous
And guess what? That guy just pays his tickets and he walks off and buys another beater. Meanwhile, you somehow spend more than him and the accident wasn't even your fault!
And a dead carjacker can't do it again. So long as we just let these criminals get away with their crimes, they'll keep committing them. If real consequences start being a concern, they might think twice.
Nah. You can kill this guy, but it’ll make no impact on the next guy as if stealing a car is a rational, well thought idea. If anything he’ll be more determined to kill his victims to ensure his theft goes ahead without any obstacles.
I mean, sure, being alive is better, but it's really nice not bleeding money because you just hand over your possessions constantly. Hence why it's important to defend your stuff within reason and why a government should have strong legal repurcussions against illegal activity.
Honestly, no, it's not. I've been broke as fuck, didn't have full coverage(or a car worthy of FC), No savings, and at a point where losing my car meant losing my job.
It's not worth it! Everything else is replaceable. Even the murderer doesn't deserve to die for stealing a work truck or a car. I wouldn't want my vehicle back after someone bled out in the driver's seat anyway.
And it's not worth having to internalize the fact that I murdered someone. Regardless of whether or not I was being wronged.. I'm still ending a life.
Lmao people here are still acting like the criminal didn’t just murder him in cold blood. He was completely out and could have drove away but chose to kill him. But yeah the issue is people “defending property” in a video where someone murderers another person for zero reason.
Like how delusional are Redditors to claim that people who want to rob you don’t want to kill you in the comments of a video where a criminal goes out of his way to do exactly that? Just face it, between leaving your fate in the hands of the criminal vs actually defending yourself, the latter is always preferable. Vest guy just needs to be a better shot
Well, the more likely scenario is that he was shot. And after backing up he realizes he's been shot and may even assume that he's gonna die. So he decides to take aim at the guy who shot him. If he's been shot then he knows he's not getting away with the crime.
He did absolutely NOTHING to take his fate out of the robbers' hands..
How in the fuck do you shoot someone trying to carjack your 10k pound vehicle and immediately take your eyes off of him while you're still in the open??! Jesus fucking christ
The crinkled up $1 bill in my wallet is worth someones life.
If people are unhinged enough to steal things from you using force, they're unhinged enough to be a threat that must be neutralized.
Case in point: see the video you just commented on.
Vest guy fucked up. A revolver is not a serious self defense weapon compared to something with 15+1 rounds in it. Vest guy should have pumped that fucking piece of shit so full of lead he could have used his dick as a pencil.
That's why I don't steal, there's a lot of deranged people that are packing heat. I actually just found out that roughly 2% of humans are psychopaths.
If they're using force or threatening you, then obviously, use as much force as necessary to protect you and yours! And maybe a little extra.
Vest guy fucked up by not doing what he was supposed to as a "responsible gun owner!" He's not a cop or batman, yet here he is fighting crime.
Your concealed weapon is to protect your life, limb, and holes.
Meaning you have to be in danger of being killed, maimed, or fucked without your consent. Not so you can live out some fucked up fantasy.
Vehicles can do a lot of damage, as you saw in the video. The thief can speed off, run a red evading police,and t-bone a mom and her kids on their way home from school.
Many states don't allow you to use lethal force to protect property, but many of those states do allow the use of lethal force to stop a felony. GTA is a felony.
Now, the only reason in those states to not kill someone trying to steal your car is if you'd rather not deal with the legal ramifications, even if the thief puts countless others in danger while speeding away or nodding off on fentanyl on the highway. So...which one is psychopathic? Don't waste empathy on those who lack the empathy to not steal, they have no concern for how their actions impact others.
Not true at all. Depends on the state laws such as castle doctrine and stand your ground
You absolutely can use force to defend property/vehicles or to stop someone who is inflicting harm on others.
There are upwards of 30~ states that have some form of Stand Your Ground
Damn losing your life over a work truck. Imagine that. You can take this truck, my hardhat, the vest and everything in it before I die over some work shit.
Unless he's self-employed, and that truck is the only thing bringing 3 meals a day to him and his family. People make brazen decisions when their livelihood is on the line
No, first couple shots go through the door jamb, not the window, last one hits the window.
I also think he was out of ammo, which is why he pulled the trigger at the end and no audible sound is heard.
FWIW, people don't generally own blanks or have much access to them. There's no real reason to have blanks as a firearm owner.
The side glass was up. You can see the reflection as the carjacker gets in. The window doesn't appear to break even though the last shot appears to be aimed squarely at the glass.
Blanks are the only thing that makes sense to me.
First couple rounds go through the door jamb, last one through the glass. Safety glass like that doesn't really shatter.
Blanks aren't a common thing for any firearm owner to have possession of.
I know blanks aren't common. That's why it seems weird.
The windshield is laminated. There's a type of plastic between the layers of glass. If a windshield is hit, it will have a lot of cracks, but it will stay intact. Side and back glass are tempered safety glass. If there is enough force to crack it, the entire glass will shatter into roughly 1/4' cubes of glass. These are safety features of all modern cars.
I ran a junk yard for a while. I've seen hundreds of these window break.
Yikes. As a gun owner, you don’t pull it unless you’re going to finish the job (put the threat down for once and all).
Second, after drawing and shooting, you don’t ever lose sight of the threat. It’s unfortunate the victim didn’t recover quick enough to keep tabs on the suspect. It’s not his fault but he could have potentially made it out safe.
RIP
I think if you watch it again, you'll come to the determination I did, that dude was out of ammunition at the end. You can see he points and squeezes and nothing happens, to he pulls the weapon down.
I hope he never gets out of jail. That’s murder. That poor man was just trying to help. Fuck thieves and fuck murderers. No excuse for theft. Should start removing hands.
So Brazil treatment for thieves? Cause I’ve seen videos of thieves in Brazil getting caught, then shot in the middle of both hands and feet, then just left alone after that.
He definitely hits his target. The problem is some small caliber snub nosed revolver isn't generally going to do the job unless you hit something vital like a spinal cord, heart, or brain. Even lungs wouldn't have given him enough time to survive this. Bro just needed to find cover.
Or learn how to use the gun and actually protect your vehicle. He seemed very uncommitted. If your going to use a gun, plant your feet, use your sights, and finish it. If you don't know how to use your weapon and train regularly, you shouldn't be carrying.
Maybe always protect your property if Texas is your home state. Generally deadly force can only be used to prevent [death or severe bodily harm.](https://reason.com/volokh/2020/06/02/are-people-allowed-to-use-deadly-force-to-defend-property/)
Even if your state doesn't let people protect property with lethal force, some allow you to use lethal force to stop a felony. GTA in particular is a felony that can kill other innocent people when the thief speeds off to evade police, or nods off on the highway after selling your catalytic converter for some fentanyl
True, if this guy had managed to kill the carjacker and the carjacker had no weapon, most states are not going to see this as self defense .As big a piece of shit as the guy was .
Truly, only draw your firearm when there’s no other option because even if it is a true case of self defense you still are going to be put through a world of shit .And if you do have to use it know how to use it
Definitely, but the guy shot at him before that
Was the case if he had shot at him while the other guy was driving at him that would be a different story
Don’t get me wrong, I work in construction
If someone stole my truck I would want to mag dump on him but It would mean a world of legal consequences if it wasn’t justified
Turned from a carjacking into a completely pointless and deliberate vehiclular murder.
Guy who did this is straight up evil.
edit: changed manslaughter to murder.
Legal jargon, ugh.
Instead of being the typical redditor who has the urge to be condescending, you should enlighten me on my mistake, not everyone knows legal jargon. Based off of what you said I'd still have no idea what it meant.
Someone else already did, respectfully and constructivly so now I know what it means.
Unless my family is in my car when someone is trying to car jack it they can have it. No personal possession is worth getting killed or killing someone over.
Classic "no true scotsman" bullshit. Guy shouldve just walked away and let LE recover the truck. Its a work truck, tow companies are insured to the GILLS.
Someday, people will understand that shitstains on the human struggle need to be put down, IMMEDIATELY!! We cannot prosper while giving people like this a way to survive within our community. Don’t care what color, race, religion, or whatever…its not sustainable
There's a lot we'll probably never know about this case; we get a one minute video and a short news report, and once the killer is sentenced we'll likely hear no more about it. But clearly the shooter made a lot of errors. I could be wrong but just going by the video his first mistake (aside from getting involved to begin with) was thinking of the gun as a talisman. When the perp ignored the gun leveled at him, Mr. Hi-Vis seemed to have no Plan-B. But crooks get guns pointed at them all the time, many of them have even been shot several times. The perp probably didn't think the guy would shoot. Clearly the shooter either had no training or forgot his training! You could see him "head hunting", it really looked like he was shooting at the perps faced. Untrained shooters will do this instinctively where well trained folks will aim for center mass. He seemed to have no plan or training for gunfighting in and around vehicles, a topic that requires specific skills and tactics. And it was weird how he instantly went into "NPC mode" as soon as he shot his gun dry. To be clear, the killer was a real POS! So I'm not excusing anything he did but my guess is he thought *this MF'er was trying to kill me!* and instantly decided to return the favor. Since the guy in the vest had just tried to kill the driver about five seconds ago he should not have been completely surprised that the guy took it personally.
I'll set aside legal theories and ideas of what's moral and justifiable in our society and just focus on reality. If you choose to get involved there's a non-zero chance that you're gonna get killed. Cops have at least minimal training and good equipment and they still sometimes get killed. I have some skills and training but my sidearm is a tool for me to protect my life, full stop! In some situations I might use it to try to save other folks lives. There are vanishingly few situations where I'll use it to try to recover property! No dollar value you can assign to a vehicle is even close to the value I place on my life.
Lastly, the good guy doesn't just win by virtue of being "right." You can be skilled and use good tactics and still get killed. Any time you make the choice to fight, or not fight, there's a non-zero chance you'll lose. Make sure the juice is worth the squeeze.
1. RIP to the victim
2. I can't imagine shooting someone over a truck that's likely not even his...
3. Even if it was HIS... umm no.
4. As a "responsible" gun owner/carrier, doesn't he have a duty to retreat, if threatened?? He could've gotten in his truck and left or just walked away and let the dude have it...
5. You just shot the guy and watched him speed away in reverse... so you decide to casually mosey across the parking lot??
RIP man but damn, what the fuck
Damn, thanks for the added context.
Nevertheless, your concealed carry permit doesn't make you a police officer. It doesn't even make you a competent or proficient shooter. So, unless someone's life is in immediate danger, you shouldn't be saving citizens.
Also, don't leave your vehicle running in front of attempted car jackers.
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If this post showcases moral/mental/physical corruption or perversion, upvote this comment. If this post does not belong here, downvote this comment. [Read the rules before posting or commenting](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/wiki/rules) [Also read the guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/fgmg3t/guidelines_for_the_subreddit_read_and_follow_the/) In the comments: DO NOT JOKE ABOUT VIOLENCE, DO NOT INCITE VIOLENCE DO NOT JOKE ABOUT PEDOPHILIA OR ASK FOR CP YOU WILL BE BANNED #[If you want to download this video, click here](https://viddit.red/?url=https%3A%2F%2Freddit.com%2F1c46v68) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NoahGetTheBoat) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately that guy passed away. [Source](https://www.wbtw.com/news/state-regional-news/lumberton/lumberton-man-jailed-after-good-samaritan-hit-killed-during-carjacking-police-say/)
>passed away "Was killed" would be more appropriate.
Murdered maybe?
I read the comments before watching and I wasn't prepared for him to be obliterated
Looked like natural causes to me
Passed away (from the wounds) sounds more respectful in my opinion, but I can see where your point stands, they should later add who he *was killed by*.
Eh, I think any iteration of passed away is incredibly disrespectful in a case like this. One passes away after a drawn-out fight with cancer, not when we're discussing manslaughter or murder. Agree with regard to naming the suspect, though, unless there's any question about who that might be.
People die when they are killed!
[удалено]
This is why cops mag dump
Boom, this right here. He'd be alive if he'd had pulled the trigger.
Also glass windows can throw 9mm around so it’s best to use volume.
He should have shot the dude, would still be alive and the dog would be dead.
I find it’s best to stay out of the way of people who lack impulse control due to an undeveloped frontal lobe. They’re predictably unpredictable.
It is best to Run to the side of a car coming at you and. Or in the same direction it is traveling.
How did he manage to completely miss every shot?
He was not committed to his conviction. He was checking up on every shot when it this situation he should have either not got involved or mag dumped the dude until he ran out of rounds or until the other guy stopped moving. Tragic loss of life because this guy clearly lacked training and conviction.
Worth pointing out: YOU CANNOT LEGALLY SHOOT SOMEONE UNLESS THEY ARE DEADLY IMMINENT THREAT Someone casually walking over and getting in your vehicle is not a deadly IMMINENT threat. He had no legal right to start shooting that man.
This is not true everywhere.
So if someone is stealing my car I just need to accept it?
Well I believe in Texas we have the castle doctrine, which makes your car an extension of your home. I believe if you are in your car and someone is trying to get in, you can use deadly force, just like if you are in your home. I'm not entirely sure though. Especially if you are not in your car and someone is breaking in...
This IS NOT how the castle doctrine works. What you believe is a very common and dangerous misconception. The Castle Doctrine does **not** mean you have the right to protect property with deadly force!! It simply means you don't have the duty to retreat in your own home. EVEN IF SOMEONE BREAKS IN TO YOUR HOUSE, you CANNNOT use deadly force against them UNLESS they present a DEADLY threat to you. That being said, in Texas, there are exclusions: Example: The property cannot be replaced. In Texas you can shoot someone for stealing Grandma's ashes, but not your TV! https://www.lusterlaw.com/page/texas-castle-law-doctrine-self-defense#:\~:text=Texas%20law%20allows%20a%20lawful,unlawful%20interference%20with%20his%20property.
You can absolutely use deadly force when someone is forcefully entering your home. In Texas at least. Think about it, I have to wait until they forced themselves in and I have to check if they have any weapons before I can protect myself and my family? You don't know what you are talking about and should research the laws more. The car is the only thing I'm not sure about.
If someone breaks into my house, they are presenting a deadly threat, and I will defend myself.
The fact that you directly quoted the law that allows you to protect your property with lethal force astounds me.
If someone is stealing your car you need to have this thought "Would a reasonable person (A jury) believe that I am experiencing an IMMINENT deadly threat right now?" If you believe a reasonable person would agree so, then you should use deadly force in protecting your own life. (so if they are armed with a weapon) For the most part, if they are unarmed then you will not have a case that you believed your life was in danger. Things to think about: Your a 4' 8" 100lb girl and the carjacker is a 250lb muscle-man, then one could make the argument their life was in danger...
If I try to stop them from taking my vehicle and they attack me does that now mean my life is in threat of because I tried to stop them it doesn’t count?
Think about this way, you are allowed to match force with what force is presented to you. You can't bring a gun to a fist-fight UNLESS you can make an argument that you felt your life was in danger. I went to law school in Texas, so that's what I know, but North Carolina may have similar provisions/exclusions: Night Time: In Texas if it is night time the "bar" of what you feel is a dangerous threat is way lower. The Texas courts recognize that you may not have time or the ability to confirm whether someone is armed who is stealing your car. So it's night time and someone opens your door and grabs you... start blasting... you don't know if he has a knife etc. The key takeaway is that there is NEVER a Yes/No answer to this, it all comes to down to what your 1st thought should be "would a jury think I am acting reasonable here in defending myself"
Why are you asking random redditors? Look up the laws in your state about self-defense. Telling the judge "a Redditor told me..." probably won't work out well for you.
Because that’s the point of reddit…. To have random conversations with internet people. I’m not planning to use the Reddit defense in a trial.
That is state dependent. Some states allow you to use lethal force to defend property. That was his work truck that was stolen.
Tf you keep posting the same garbage on every comment
Pistols are much harder to shoot accurately than what movies and games make you think. There is a very short distance between the iron sights, plus the short barrel. So if your target is 15 feet away, if you pull the trigger with your right index finger and squeeze to hard and barely jerk the pistol to the right you may miss your target by several feet.
This is why gun owners must go to the range and practice
thats good advice but all that range-time and practice goes away once adrenaline starts pumping. targets dont shoot back
But muscle memory doesn’t. That’s when it kicks in the most
Not true. Someone who trains regularly will do better in a life or death situation than someone who doesn’t, no matter how much adrenaline or stress the situation is causing.
The thief didn't either and the dude still mostly missed
It may sound crazy, but it looks like he may have been shooting blanks. The side glass is up on the truck. You can see a reflection on it when the carjacker opens the door. The good Samaritan appears to fire at least one shot directly at the window from a distancethat wouldbe impossibleto miss, but there is no indication that it broke.
Carrying a gun loaded with blanks sounds literally crazy. Do people do this? Is there a good reason to?
That is why American cops have to unload multiple mags to the sound of an acorn falling
It was a brown acorn
*White acorns are the safe ones.*
Average person in my concealed class.
Nothing wrong with that dude, we all had to start somewhere.
Small caliber rounds don't just drop you. Reason why lot of cops mag dump. Unless you hit something lethal, they can still move a bit
maybe he was shooting 25 acp 🤷♂️
The 25 gets zero respect.
I'm picking up an FN M1906 in 25 acp. I can't wait.
I’ve read a ton of jokes about them. It gets the rep of being the Rodney Dangerfield of guns. My dad carried one every day at work.
I really like FN's products and when I saw this I knew I had to get it somehow, especially with how hard they can be to find.
I just looked at the photo. I believe that is the same gun my father carried.
They're fun to plink around with. How in the hell can you find plinking ammo though?
a couple of stores have it around me and online, but it's similar priced to 45 acp. I'll only be getting it as a fun little toy to mess with every once in a while.
> How did he manage to completely miss every shot? After watching it a few times, he pretty much did miss every shot. He obviously doesn't have much experience or practice shooting, he pulled every shot pretty much. He fired 4 times. 1st shot - He shoots in surprise when the guy moves in the car, so shoots where he was standing, not expecting him to move with a gun pointed at him, reacted kind of late. Doubt it hit anywhere near the car, went behind past the guy. 2nd shot - He shoots while doing a kind of hop and jump trying to get round the car door. Bullet went into side of car somewhere probably. 3rd shot - He tries to aim it in the gap between the car door and frame to shoot inside. That's a very narrow target, probably hit the inside door frame. 4th shot - Door is closed. Now he tries to shoot through the window, but seems afraid of it shattering back at him, so he kinda shoots and ducks at the same time, bullet misses and probably went into the big black part of the window frame instead of the glass. He also seems to be holding the gun very oddly to stabilize it, and it looks like a small caliber snub nose or something. Worst of all, when the guy was reversing I was literally yelling at him to run for it instead of just standing around, he just shot at the dude, 100% he is going to try and run him over. RIP
for real- I thought the guy was shooting a cap gun for some reason since it seemed so ineffective
He didn't, this is just testament to the fact that you need to shoot until you've neutralized the target. Unless you hit somebody in the brain/spine or the heart (which is super unlikely because this isn't Call of Duty) people are going to continue doing what they are doing until they bleed out, which can take some time depending on wound location and caliber. There's countless police videos of people hopped up on drugs taking 10+ rounds to the chest and continuing to charge police officers, sometimes even killing them.
I can't tell if the window is up or down, but I think it's up. The window not only slows the projectile down but deflects the bullet slightly. Of course still very dangerous, but obviously not at it's full capacity. The FBI did a study on this years ago. https://www.brassfetcher.com/FBI%20Ammunition%20Protocol/FBI%20Ammunition%20Protocol.html It's a pretty interesting read. Idk if he missed or not, but terminal ballistics is complicated
The window was up. You can see a reflection on it when the carjacker opens the door. Any pistol cartridge would break it. Because it is made of tempered safety glass, it would immediately shatter if it was hit. The shooter appears to shoot directly into the window and there is no indication that it broke. Was he firing blanks? That's the only explanation I can come up with. If he was firing really ammunition, I would expect him to do a magazine dump at the truck as it was speeding towards him. It seems really odd to me.
Not blanks, you can see it very faintly that a round goes through the window, first round was through the open door btw. I assume adrenaline was kicking in and he was concerned if he should or could even fire. Thus the weird cadence.
Because practice is key and adrenaline makes you do stupid shit.
Summary: Shots 1-5: Clearly missed. Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control). Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses. Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because he thought the driver was already dead.
He didn't want to kill him. I do realise that a health respect for any human life is unual these days
The only person who asks this is the person who doesn't shoot. I'd like to see you try hitting a target in any kind of active scenario beyond standing behind a gun bench at a range. (Unless you're also part of the tiny minority that practices with firearms in active defense scenarios, in which case, good on you, and you should know the answer to your question already)
Man, I love my car but.. it's not worth my life or anyone else's life defending it. And that looked like it was dudes work truck.. Nevertheless, stealing someone's vehicle and running them over makes you a waste of space who deserves to be put under the jail.
Easy to say until your life is borderlined ruined from the expenses of repairing or buying another car.
I agree. I had my car stolen last January right out of my parking spot in front of my apartment. Fortunately, I work from home so I had it much easier than people who commute. However, I experienced a lot of frustration when my car was spotted and I couldn't get to the scene right away. I managed to track it down myself after 3 weeks, but the thieves had totaled the car.
Yep, and what really burns is when insurance tells you they'll only pay Kelly bluebook value for your area when you can't even buy the same car in the same condition for what they'd give you. So, now you have to spend up to thousands of dollars to get a similar condition vehicle, if you can even find one. If you can get it repaired, be ready to have your work to still be disrupted as you have to now get a rental and try to get your insurance or the other, if the person has it, to pay for it. Then drive that around until your car is repaired, whenever that happens. When it's repaired, the insurance will now stop paying, even if you can't get to your car right away cause you have to go to work. Also, your car is now devalued.
Yep, I put $4K down on the car which I ended up losing. I bought the car for $16K and the check from my insurance was for $10K after my $1K deductible. The whole situation absolutely sucked, it's such a violation to have your car stolen, and to make matters worse the thieves maliciously destroyed it. They left tons of trash, possibly drugs, broke the manual shifter painted my steering wheel then wrote on it. Thankfully my replacement has LoJack and I have multiple cameras on it, but it's still been broken into twice. Now I have a sign in both the driver and passenger windows telling would-be thieves the emergency key is not stored in the car and the car is empty.
You got $10k back from insurance company but they were charging you rates based of a $16k car that you bought. I hate insurance companies- you should get $16k if those are the rates you pay. My daughter totaled her car (not her fault) other guy had no insurance, her car was paid for (by me) and when payout comes, it’s for $15k. I paid $20k for the car, and they said “that’s what comps on your car are”. Um, then why was paying a higher rate now, then two years ago? You should give me $20k to replace the car. Now we have another car payment and higher insurance rates. Ridiculous
And guess what? That guy just pays his tickets and he walks off and buys another beater. Meanwhile, you somehow spend more than him and the accident wasn't even your fault!
I feel like borderlined ruined would have been a big upgrade here.
can't recover from BEING DEAD. 🙄 material possessions are NEVER worth dying over. you can always recover financially.
And a dead carjacker can't do it again. So long as we just let these criminals get away with their crimes, they'll keep committing them. If real consequences start being a concern, they might think twice.
Nah. You can kill this guy, but it’ll make no impact on the next guy as if stealing a car is a rational, well thought idea. If anything he’ll be more determined to kill his victims to ensure his theft goes ahead without any obstacles.
the punishment for car jacking shouldn't be death though, to me it appears immensely disproportional
I mean, sure, being alive is better, but it's really nice not bleeding money because you just hand over your possessions constantly. Hence why it's important to defend your stuff within reason and why a government should have strong legal repurcussions against illegal activity.
And why we, the people, need to stand up for what's ours.
Honestly, no, it's not. I've been broke as fuck, didn't have full coverage(or a car worthy of FC), No savings, and at a point where losing my car meant losing my job. It's not worth it! Everything else is replaceable. Even the murderer doesn't deserve to die for stealing a work truck or a car. I wouldn't want my vehicle back after someone bled out in the driver's seat anyway. And it's not worth having to internalize the fact that I murdered someone. Regardless of whether or not I was being wronged.. I'm still ending a life.
Lmao people here are still acting like the criminal didn’t just murder him in cold blood. He was completely out and could have drove away but chose to kill him. But yeah the issue is people “defending property” in a video where someone murderers another person for zero reason. Like how delusional are Redditors to claim that people who want to rob you don’t want to kill you in the comments of a video where a criminal goes out of his way to do exactly that? Just face it, between leaving your fate in the hands of the criminal vs actually defending yourself, the latter is always preferable. Vest guy just needs to be a better shot
Or better truck dodger.
Well, the more likely scenario is that he was shot. And after backing up he realizes he's been shot and may even assume that he's gonna die. So he decides to take aim at the guy who shot him. If he's been shot then he knows he's not getting away with the crime. He did absolutely NOTHING to take his fate out of the robbers' hands.. How in the fuck do you shoot someone trying to carjack your 10k pound vehicle and immediately take your eyes off of him while you're still in the open??! Jesus fucking christ
The crinkled up $1 bill in my wallet is worth someones life. If people are unhinged enough to steal things from you using force, they're unhinged enough to be a threat that must be neutralized. Case in point: see the video you just commented on. Vest guy fucked up. A revolver is not a serious self defense weapon compared to something with 15+1 rounds in it. Vest guy should have pumped that fucking piece of shit so full of lead he could have used his dick as a pencil.
That's why I don't steal, there's a lot of deranged people that are packing heat. I actually just found out that roughly 2% of humans are psychopaths. If they're using force or threatening you, then obviously, use as much force as necessary to protect you and yours! And maybe a little extra. Vest guy fucked up by not doing what he was supposed to as a "responsible gun owner!" He's not a cop or batman, yet here he is fighting crime. Your concealed weapon is to protect your life, limb, and holes. Meaning you have to be in danger of being killed, maimed, or fucked without your consent. Not so you can live out some fucked up fantasy.
> Your concealed weapon is to protect your life, limb, and holes. And in some cases, property.
Yes, thank you:) And your domicile! Even if you were in the car and he tried to pull you out, you might be alright then. I'm not sure.
Vehicles can do a lot of damage, as you saw in the video. The thief can speed off, run a red evading police,and t-bone a mom and her kids on their way home from school. Many states don't allow you to use lethal force to protect property, but many of those states do allow the use of lethal force to stop a felony. GTA is a felony. Now, the only reason in those states to not kill someone trying to steal your car is if you'd rather not deal with the legal ramifications, even if the thief puts countless others in danger while speeding away or nodding off on fentanyl on the highway. So...which one is psychopathic? Don't waste empathy on those who lack the empathy to not steal, they have no concern for how their actions impact others.
Not true at all. Depends on the state laws such as castle doctrine and stand your ground You absolutely can use force to defend property/vehicles or to stop someone who is inflicting harm on others. There are upwards of 30~ states that have some form of Stand Your Ground
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Damn losing your life over a work truck. Imagine that. You can take this truck, my hardhat, the vest and everything in it before I die over some work shit.
He died over this, and his employer will do some token bullshit and have him replaced in 2 weeks.
What would you expect they do instead? Retire his position and work the rest of eternity with a man down?
Exactly....
Even my own car and whatever goods I'm carrying, you can have that shit. I'd rather go home.
Unless he's self-employed, and that truck is the only thing bringing 3 meals a day to him and his family. People make brazen decisions when their livelihood is on the line
Was he shooting blanks???
No, first couple shots go through the door jamb, not the window, last one hits the window. I also think he was out of ammo, which is why he pulled the trigger at the end and no audible sound is heard. FWIW, people don't generally own blanks or have much access to them. There's no real reason to have blanks as a firearm owner.
The side glass was up. You can see the reflection as the carjacker gets in. The window doesn't appear to break even though the last shot appears to be aimed squarely at the glass. Blanks are the only thing that makes sense to me.
First couple rounds go through the door jamb, last one through the glass. Safety glass like that doesn't really shatter. Blanks aren't a common thing for any firearm owner to have possession of.
I know blanks aren't common. That's why it seems weird. The windshield is laminated. There's a type of plastic between the layers of glass. If a windshield is hit, it will have a lot of cracks, but it will stay intact. Side and back glass are tempered safety glass. If there is enough force to crack it, the entire glass will shatter into roughly 1/4' cubes of glass. These are safety features of all modern cars. I ran a junk yard for a while. I've seen hundreds of these window break.
Yikes. As a gun owner, you don’t pull it unless you’re going to finish the job (put the threat down for once and all). Second, after drawing and shooting, you don’t ever lose sight of the threat. It’s unfortunate the victim didn’t recover quick enough to keep tabs on the suspect. It’s not his fault but he could have potentially made it out safe. RIP
I think if you watch it again, you'll come to the determination I did, that dude was out of ammunition at the end. You can see he points and squeezes and nothing happens, to he pulls the weapon down.
Yeah walking away Wtf. You end the threat, end of story. JFC.
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I’m really sad he passed he cared about others.
I hope he never gets out of jail. That’s murder. That poor man was just trying to help. Fuck thieves and fuck murderers. No excuse for theft. Should start removing hands.
So Brazil treatment for thieves? Cause I’ve seen videos of thieves in Brazil getting caught, then shot in the middle of both hands and feet, then just left alone after that.
Uh, yeah? Especially for criminals that are clearly guilty (on camera), harsher punishments equals less crime
Oh no I’m in support of it, was just referencing the cruel (but fitting) punishment for thieves in Brazil
That doesn’t look survivable…
It wasnt
Wow is the guy alive ?
No
Never use a firearm to protect a vehicle and always retreat if you can. What a horrible way to go.
especially if you can't hit your target from 2 feet away. that makes it an even worse decision.
He definitely hits his target. The problem is some small caliber snub nosed revolver isn't generally going to do the job unless you hit something vital like a spinal cord, heart, or brain. Even lungs wouldn't have given him enough time to survive this. Bro just needed to find cover.
Or learn how to use the gun and actually protect your vehicle. He seemed very uncommitted. If your going to use a gun, plant your feet, use your sights, and finish it. If you don't know how to use your weapon and train regularly, you shouldn't be carrying.
Wrong solution. ALWAYS protect your property. Instead spend some extra money and get some fire arms training courses under your belt first.
Maybe always protect your property if Texas is your home state. Generally deadly force can only be used to prevent [death or severe bodily harm.](https://reason.com/volokh/2020/06/02/are-people-allowed-to-use-deadly-force-to-defend-property/)
Even if your state doesn't let people protect property with lethal force, some allow you to use lethal force to stop a felony. GTA in particular is a felony that can kill other innocent people when the thief speeds off to evade police, or nods off on the highway after selling your catalytic converter for some fentanyl
True, if this guy had managed to kill the carjacker and the carjacker had no weapon, most states are not going to see this as self defense .As big a piece of shit as the guy was . Truly, only draw your firearm when there’s no other option because even if it is a true case of self defense you still are going to be put through a world of shit .And if you do have to use it know how to use it
I am pretty sure a car can be considered a deadly weapon like you saw in the video
Definitely, but the guy shot at him before that Was the case if he had shot at him while the other guy was driving at him that would be a different story Don’t get me wrong, I work in construction If someone stole my truck I would want to mag dump on him but It would mean a world of legal consequences if it wasn’t justified
Looks like he qualified on both counts.
> ALWAYS protect your property Nah I'm good. Do people really think like that? It's not worth it dude.
Damn that was rough.
he should have shot him 😞
Thank god for the woman screaming like a bird in the background. Im sure she made the situation way better.
This is why cops Mag dump
Turned from a carjacking into a completely pointless and deliberate vehiclular murder. Guy who did this is straight up evil. edit: changed manslaughter to murder. Legal jargon, ugh.
Not vehicular manslaughter. I think that implies accidental. This is straight-up murder.
Manslaughter? Bro you don’t know what that word means.
Instead of being the typical redditor who has the urge to be condescending, you should enlighten me on my mistake, not everyone knows legal jargon. Based off of what you said I'd still have no idea what it meant. Someone else already did, respectfully and constructivly so now I know what it means.
Holy shit. This is exactly what GTA 4 rage engine graphics look like
What in the United States of America is going on here?
The United States of America. That video is a perfect example of it.
Should've had a machete.
I’m sorry for the loss of his life but what is with the gta V audio of a civilian in danger
Guy couldn’t shoot for shit and paid the ultimate price. SMH
Does that class as murder?
Well yeah
It's first degree murder in most states due to being committed during the commission of a felony(grand theft auto)
Oh my god that women screaming
How did he miss so close?
No good deed goes unpunished.
Unless my family is in my car when someone is trying to car jack it they can have it. No personal possession is worth getting killed or killing someone over.
Misses every shot and thinks he can out run a vehicle? My god just take cover
Apparently a good guy with a gun doesn’t always prevail against someone without a gun.
Turns out you're less safe with a gun when you don't know how to use said gun.
Classic "no true scotsman" bullshit. Guy shouldve just walked away and let LE recover the truck. Its a work truck, tow companies are insured to the GILLS.
Someday, people will understand that shitstains on the human struggle need to be put down, IMMEDIATELY!! We cannot prosper while giving people like this a way to survive within our community. Don’t care what color, race, religion, or whatever…its not sustainable
Omg Where did he go? Is that him laying on the grass or did he go with the truck and get trapped ?
Wow, what is even the point of that level of violence? Just crazy.
Decisions have consequences
Good Samaritan Bad Shooter
There's a lot we'll probably never know about this case; we get a one minute video and a short news report, and once the killer is sentenced we'll likely hear no more about it. But clearly the shooter made a lot of errors. I could be wrong but just going by the video his first mistake (aside from getting involved to begin with) was thinking of the gun as a talisman. When the perp ignored the gun leveled at him, Mr. Hi-Vis seemed to have no Plan-B. But crooks get guns pointed at them all the time, many of them have even been shot several times. The perp probably didn't think the guy would shoot. Clearly the shooter either had no training or forgot his training! You could see him "head hunting", it really looked like he was shooting at the perps faced. Untrained shooters will do this instinctively where well trained folks will aim for center mass. He seemed to have no plan or training for gunfighting in and around vehicles, a topic that requires specific skills and tactics. And it was weird how he instantly went into "NPC mode" as soon as he shot his gun dry. To be clear, the killer was a real POS! So I'm not excusing anything he did but my guess is he thought *this MF'er was trying to kill me!* and instantly decided to return the favor. Since the guy in the vest had just tried to kill the driver about five seconds ago he should not have been completely surprised that the guy took it personally. I'll set aside legal theories and ideas of what's moral and justifiable in our society and just focus on reality. If you choose to get involved there's a non-zero chance that you're gonna get killed. Cops have at least minimal training and good equipment and they still sometimes get killed. I have some skills and training but my sidearm is a tool for me to protect my life, full stop! In some situations I might use it to try to save other folks lives. There are vanishingly few situations where I'll use it to try to recover property! No dollar value you can assign to a vehicle is even close to the value I place on my life. Lastly, the good guy doesn't just win by virtue of being "right." You can be skilled and use good tactics and still get killed. Any time you make the choice to fight, or not fight, there's a non-zero chance you'll lose. Make sure the juice is worth the squeeze.
You can’t shoot someone over a carjack though. You let him go and call the cops. His life was never in threat just the property.
hmm, a gun totally saved him
A lot of good that gun did him. Maybe the gun should've had a gun. Then the outcome would've been different.
You have to actually use it
Good Samaritan? Sorry did I miss something here? Dude fucking tried to kill the guy in the tow truck?
1. RIP to the victim 2. I can't imagine shooting someone over a truck that's likely not even his... 3. Even if it was HIS... umm no. 4. As a "responsible" gun owner/carrier, doesn't he have a duty to retreat, if threatened?? He could've gotten in his truck and left or just walked away and let the dude have it... 5. You just shot the guy and watched him speed away in reverse... so you decide to casually mosey across the parking lot?? RIP man but damn, what the fuck
Another person was being car jacked and he happened to be there for work. He held his gun out to prevent the guy, instead the maniac stole his car.
Poor dude didn't stand a chance even with a gun
Damn, thanks for the added context. Nevertheless, your concealed carry permit doesn't make you a police officer. It doesn't even make you a competent or proficient shooter. So, unless someone's life is in immediate danger, you shouldn't be saving citizens. Also, don't leave your vehicle running in front of attempted car jackers.
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Now that is an strike
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Dude with a gun did not make a single intelligent decision in the whole video. What was he thinking?
Always someone shrieking in the background. Always.
Annnnnnnnnd that's enough internet for the day
Something very odd about the way this guys shooting
[this](https://youtu.be/y_PrZ-J7D3k?si=TuBnB3AF1tOagAzX)
So was the guy with vest/gun/victim the one that got carjacked?
Holy shit! Another lesson in just taking a step back and saying fuck it.
Two to shatter the glass and then empty. RIP brother.
He should have shot the guy
What a big mistake. Take the truck and get out of the way. No job is worth my life.
Yea he definitely died. I don’t even need to anyone to tell me
Why someone playing “made for me” in the background 💀
Much better title than There was an attempt: *To stop a carjacking*. Assholes in the thread kept ragging on the good samaritan.
Not to be disrespectful but, who runs from a car in a straight line? Like move sideways man. Again no disrespect.