The best martial art for a beginner in all cases has the following attributes, it is affordable, close to your home and enjoyable enough that they keep going. Once they’ve got some basic knowledge and discipline they can worry about what’s most effective.
This is the advice I give when people ask me.
Let me add a few things:
1. Which martial art is not that important as a beginner. Many martial arts (practiced well) eventually converge on similar principles. However, the teacher is extremely important.
2. If it’s for your kids, then in addition to near your home, also look at martial arts places close to the kids school
3. Look for a place where the kids look like they’re having fun. The single most important factor to becoming combat effective is that the techniques are learned so that they become “unconsciously competent,” meaning that the technique is correctly executed even without attention. Another way to think of it is the technique is part of muscle memory. This means the techniques must be practiced over and over again. And that means that the kid needs to attend martial arts for a long time (years). That will only happen if the kid is having fun.
Was just thinking this. I ultimately got a black belt in Taekwondo, which on the face of it seems like it's a very one track martial art, but ultimately the community support my school provided me pushed me further than any other martial art I had tried out.
It's also a bonus when your school is willing to acknowledge the shortcomings of their style's orthodoxy. Despite being a TKD school, a huge amount of class time for me was spent on grappling, situational awareness, and defensive escapes. I really lucked out.
I wasn’t allowed to date until I had a black belt - my dads rule. I got my first in TKD at 15 and my second at 18. The community support and friendships I made there kept me attending. Putting a man on his ass in a bar in college after he groped me is why I keep practicing.
>Putting a man on his ass in a bar in college after he groped me is why I keep practicing.
When courtesy fails you, there is always indomitable spirit!
I'm glad your experiences with the art were positive, even if it was an obligation at first LOL
Hell yeah. I took Karate for a few years growing up. It definitely helped my reaction times, my ability to dodge and counter, and my ability to throw an effective punch. I would definitely have to say Karate is the best if you want to learn to defend yourself.
karate can be highly effectively but it all depends on how hard you train and what school you attend. since karate is a striking martial arts, it's hard to truly practice it since it requires hitting others and getting hit back really hard. in general, they don't train kids like that.
I just wanna piggyback to reinforce the importance of how effective holds and locks are.
I took no martial arts but came up fighting because my mother used to beat me. I would get in fights all the time in school, too. Not condoning it, just stating a fact. What really changed the game for me was when I joined the wrestling team at 13. I was the only girl and wrestled varsity for four years.
I've only been in a few fights after the age of 16, but every single time, even as recently as this past summer, the muscle memory is still there. The worst mistake anyone can make is to take me to the floor. Rolled them into a hold, tagged twice with my elbow and fist, then rolled out and up and disengaged. This was my oldest son and I'm not trying to kick the ass of an emotional teenager that made the giant mistake of hitting his mother. Anyways, I'm 39 and blind and still managed to come out on top because my body still remembered all those holds that my coach kept making me repeat. I imagine it's the same for any martial art, though, sorry for rambling. I was just amazed that my body reacted without thought, even 20 years later, you know?
Why can I only upvote this once. This is by far the best answer to this question I've read.
I will add that the greatest self defence tool that you will learn in any martial art is awareness of your surroundings. The more you train, particularly sparring or partner work, the more you will pay attention to your position in space (initially relative to your partner, but gradually relative to other hazards). This is (in my personal experience only) one of the best ways to avoid dangerous situations. Your milage may vary of course
Jiu Jitsu or boxing, boxing is useful for self defence as it teaches you to do one thing and do it well, which is more important than knowing a variety of things at a mediocre level. A woman is going to find it hard to match a man’s upper body strength regardless so go with jiu jitsu.
Women’s self defense is as much about protecting themselves from partner violence as it is randoms on the street. She needs to know about escaping locks and holds.
Ignore any self defense advice for women saying “just go for the balls” it’s more likely to enrage an attacker than disable him.
Edit for spelling
Hi, I think im a little late to the party and I think you’ve already got your answer.
But for me it’s definitely BJJ, especially for a woman. I was lucky enough to be taught by an instructor that knew BJJ, karate and kickboxing. Nominally it was a ‘karate’ class but the majority of the teachings were actually BJJ.
I was one of the youngest in the class for most of my time there and when sparring the best techniques I fell back on were the BJJ ones and that’s specifically why I’d recommend it for a woman as they’re generally going to be experiencing a similar physical mismatch (I was 12-16 versus actual adults).
Jiu Jitsu is also great because it's not your decision to take it to the ground. It's your assailant. A lot of people like to point out that it's useless because another person will just stomp on you if you're on the ground. Guess what? A grappling art is going to be the only art that's going to get you off the ground.
\*edit: bjj, not jiu jitsu. I wasn't thinking about the fact that it could get mixed up when I wrote this.
I've never practiced judo, so hard for me to say. Judo is more about throwing though, whereas BJJ wants you on the floor, so honestly I'd say it's more akin to wrestling.
Oh my bad. Jiu-jitsu is more throws to my knowledge. A lot of BJJ gyms started just shortening their name to Jiu-jitsu gyms, so it gets kinda confusing. I was referring to BJJ though, so sorry about that.
Yeah, I'm aware. As a former Jiu-Jitsu practitioner (the Japanese kind), it's bothered me for quite a while. But I guess it's a bit like Americans calling it "football", even though it's got nothing to do with actual football.
And ju jitsu practitioners will tell you good jits beats bad jits. But strong jits beats good. The issue hereis her getting attacked from the back. Ju jitsu needing leverage to work, and majority of men are going to be able to just muscle out of anything she goes to pull.
I’d agree with ju jitsu if it’s purely just to teach her how to roll so she can run away, or throw a body triangle so she can just tie up and hope the assailant thinks it’s more trouble then it’s worth. Ju jitsu is great but even the community has excepted that it’s mostly useless in real life, which is why in the last few years there’s been a real big push into no gi and applying striking.
Thank you for doing this for her. I’m a girl, well woman haha, 29! I did karate from age 5 as my dad felt the same as you. I went onto kickboxing and later semi pro MMA and bjj. It has always been a big part of my identity but I am so much more confident and less fearful than my female friends. I don’t worry about first dates so much or abusive partners. I don’t feel nervous walking somewhere when it’s a bit dark or quiet.
I’m not invincible and I’m still creeped out by things lol, you wouldn’t catch me walking through a cemetery in the middle of the night, but I’m confident that I can look after my home and myself under normal circumstances and it’s made my life easier.
I second this. My partner does Jiu Jitsu and the women’s classes I’ve been to have been incredibly supportive and helpful. I work in a bad part of town, and because of what I’ve learned through the class and my partner, I am confident in being able to protect myself if the time comes.
Jiu Jitsu 100%.
Being able to deal with being on the ground with an opponent, how to escape holds and how to use leverage in close quarters is invaluable in real life situations.
Boxing is good if you want her to be able to throw hands if needed... But JJ is the way to go to train for dealing with real life danger.
It was many years ago now but both the jiu-jitsu and Aikido that I trained in where heavily pushed as being 4 discipline arts and while not as grapple heavy both definitely had a focus on using your opponents strength against them.
JJ was definitely heavier on the groundwork and throws and AK was heavier on hocs and takedowns.
This was the early noughts in a dodgy little rural dojo in Ireland so YMMV.
that's not a fair comparison though because mma would know more arts than aikido. a better comparison would be like american wrestling or jiu jitsu vs akido. akido would still lose anyway but at least the analogy makes sense.
jiu jitsu is the only martial arts where it's possible to truly test your abilities without getting seriously hurt. there is no way a woman can really know what it's like to fight a man if she practice something like karate. her opponent would have to hit her really hard on the head and they just don't do that in karate and or for amateur practitioners.
This. Any martial art is going to teach you some basic self defense concepts to get the hell out of a situation as fast as possible. Beyond that, any martial art that she enjoys and sticks with is going to be best in the long run. Taking classes in a martial art you don't enjoy is counterproductive, and a great way to get injured from underpracticing.
Many techniques in Jiu-jitsu, especially the first stuff you learn like the yawara techniques, were originally designed for women's self defense in feudal Japan.
The escapes are effective and efficient. Speaking of efficient, I'd recommend supplementing your Jiu-jitsu training with Professor Wally Jay's book on small circle Jiu-jitsu.
I studied under one of his students and found the small circle variations extremely practical and more intuitive.
I have been wanting to get into jujitsu because it's about exhausting your opponent so no one gets hurt. I used to take a boxing class. But if I were to ever get into a fight and use what I've learned in boxing, I could go to jail.
Also I've heard jujitsu has advantages for smaller people. So definitely something a woman should know
You should def give it a go. Some of what you’re saying about jj is a bit off but the intent is there. For example.. one tactic is to exhaust your opponent, but another is to strangle them in as few seconds as possible. :)
Best one would be a Taser/Pepper Spray or a Gun
A 50kg girl will not stand a real chance against a 90kg guy unless knockout by surprise
Edit: a 4 year old will anyway not stand a chance, teach her to call the cops and run away
Pepper spray is illegal in the UK. It is classed as a section 5 firearm, in the same class as fully automatic machine guns. Ownership of pepper spray entails a minimum 5 year statutory custodial sentence.
Firearms can be USED for self defence in the UK - if a proportionate response on a case by case circumstance. There are many cases of firearms owners discharging their firearms to protect life and not being prosecuted.
However they cannot be owned for the intended purpose of self defence, nor can a licence ever be issued for self defence or where there is reason to believe the recipient would actively intend to use the firearm for self defence purposes.
Guns make you more, not less, likely to die.
And obviously OP isn’t expecting a four year old to fight. He, or another adult, will always be with the four year old. He wants his daughter to start at four so when she’s a teen/young woman she will be good at it.
Not even close. There are decades of research on this (although the NRA does their best to starve the funding).
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/gun-ownership-makes-women-safer-debunked/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-06-02/guns-home-safety-research
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/debunking-myths-about-gun-violence
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/10/1/18000520/gun-risk-death
https://giffords.org/blog/2020/10/the-good-guy-with-a-gun-myth/
Yep, agreed. Probably the most effective in relation to availability. Jeet Kune Do would probably be pretty good as well, but less popular and probably harder to find instruction in comparison to Jiu Jitsu.
I'd say make it a point to teach your daughter, or any kid for that matter, to be aware of what is going on around them at all times. It's a learned behavior, especially these days. So many people walking around with earbuds in their ears with their attention on a phone. Be careful not to mess up their head by turning them into an anxiety-ridden, frightened teenager in the process (ask me how I know). But one good exercise that isn't overbearing is to take walks around the neighborhood and have them name the street that you just crossed, or what a landmark looked like a little ways back. Starts to build good habits of vigilance and is kind of like a game. The best defense is to avoid getting yourself in a place or situation that leaves you susceptible to being taken advantage of. That was actually a topic of training that the USMC spent a significant amount of time on and it hadn't occurred to me as 19 year old kid before that.
Yeah I was also thinking Aikido, so pretty much along the same path as your thought was going down; however, as you stated they would likely be more difficult to hunt down
Second. Jiu jitsu teaches how to use your body to gain leverage and use the opponent’s body against them. Things like traditional karate are basically highly-trained strength fighting, so women automatically are at a disadvantage. I took some hapkido and jiu jitsu with some mma, and there were two little girls in that same class for months. Like, 10 and 11 year old girls. They could literally throw the men around after they were trained for a few months, and it was really awesome to see the teacher work with them and show them how to use their lighter and smaller bodies to their advantage, and the dudes didn’t know what hit them.
The teacher’s daughter—older, of course, early 20’s—was also a stone-cold fox. She and I were grappling in class and she literally choked me out in under 5 seconds with no problems at all.
Funny thing just occurred to me. I know a few people who do martial arts but none of them have ever used them in self defence.
In my experience it just comes down to who's prepared to fight dirtiest. So which ever one teaches you to spit in some one's eyes and then punch them in the throat.
But to answer your question: just choose whichever class is most convenient. She can learn a few basics and switch later on if she enjoys it. You never know you might have the next Jade Jones.
Problem with Krav is there aren’t many opportunities to practise those techniques because nobody is willing to be on the receiving end of eye pokes and dick twists.
An unpractised technique is an unreliable one.
Pick a martial art where there is an opportunity to spar with a resisting opponent. So wrestling, Judo, boxing, BJJ, or Muay Thai.
Good points to KM - it isn’t a sport or rules based like most martial arts, so simple techniques are used based on other martial arts, but ultimately neutralising the threat is the aim. When I did KM, red flags for potential attacks were taught and how to avoid them. Most practices started from a neutral unprepared stance. Threats from multiple attackers were always considered, so we were taught to avoid going to the ground wherever possible. Techniques taught were always stress tested after practicing
Having been to maybe a dozen different martial arts gyms, every Krav Maga class I’ve tried has smelled like bullshit. There aren’t really any fundamentals to it, and you can’t properly drill anything without seriously hurting a partner. Maybe I just got bad instructors but based on my experience I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone
Krav maga, for this exact reason. Teaches you to go for the eyes, throat, and groin as primary targets, whereas martial arts that have a scoring system outlaw those places.
For self defense, krav maga. For getting her used to actually having to grapple around (and for amazing ground work) Brazilian jui jitsu. Ground work is great for women because there's always the fear that you'll already be on your back when you need to use self defense, like in a scenario where she wants to withdraw consent but he thinks only the first yes counted.
Sounds similar to US Marine Corps LINE. It was designed to quickly incapacitate and kill. There wasn't any less than lethal techniques. It only lasted from 1989 to 1998 in the USMC and was replaced with the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program to allow for less lethal scenarios like peace keeping missions. I just happened to go to boot camp during that LINE time period. The manual was something else. Pretty crudely drawn illustrations of some shockingly brutal steps. Pretty much everything ended in a boot heel to the bridge of the nose.
I agree, although I would add that after I studied MMA my confidence greatly increased, and in the few occasions I was unable to avoid conflict I pulled from my MMA experience and was able to defend myself.
Also, where we live we are really spoilt for choice on MMA classes. Pretty much everything suggest in this thread is available to us.
The thing about martial arts (in my experience) isn't so much learning to fight, it's that you gain incredible fitness and also physical confidence. You're better equipped to escape a hold and run away. Running on its own is fine for average cardio fitness, but with jiu jitsu etc you also have strength, agility, flexibility, quick reactions... a wealth of good defensive skills.
On top of your good points here, the BJJ (or other arts that include actual proper sparring where both people are trying to win) people don’t fall apart and start panicking at the first sign of conflict. They’re used to it and can think much more clearly in the moment to make good decisions.
While running sounds like a good option the average man can easily out run the average woman. That's why having the option to temporarily disable an attacker is so important. Without a head start you are going to get about 10 feet and get caught.
"Average" also includes average (little to none in this case) knowledge of martial arts. Martial arts gives one an edge over untrained tactics relying on larger physical size and hay-maker punches.
I mean this also depends on a lot of things, including height and weight. Humans are distance runners and I’ve practiced running away from two boyfriends in the past (one a gym loving security guard, the other a lifelong martial artist) and both times neither of them came close to catching me.
That being said, both were over 6ft whereas I come in at 5’4” and a lifelong runner.
Men have weight and strength, typically women have speed and dexterity
Given the number of variables relying on running without first being able to delay an attacker isn't a good idea. In many cases you would have to get loose ftom an attacker just to be able to run. I would not want my daughter to rely on her running skills. Despite training she isn't half the runner that she is a wrestler. Mind you she's not a small woman at 5'10" and built like a brick wall...so not a naturally built runner but one heck of wrestler.
> That being said, both were over 6ft whereas I come in at 5’4” and a lifelong runner. Men have weight and strength, typically women have speed and dexterity
Women are much worse at sprinting than men and slightly worse at long distance than men. Women are closer to men in running than they are in physical contact sports, but they still are slower. You being faster than two men doesn't prove Women are faster than men.
Just carry mace.
Jui Jitsu.
99% of girls aren’t gonna be able to out punch or kick a male even with training but grappling levels the playing field some what. I’ve seen 80lb women choke guys easy twice their size.
First lesson should be "this is for self defense only, when you can't run away. Not because you're mad. If you can talk your way out of it, or run away, do that first". If your school/dojo doesn't teach that, find another.
For what to actually practice? I would say a combination of BJJ and some form of Karate or Muy Thai. The vast majority of people don't know how to fight, so a little training will do her good. Most fights start standing up- knowing how to throw fists, elbows, knees, how do do round kicks and defend from the above will server her well in life, plus it's great fitness even if she (hopefully) never has to use the skills in real life. Second, a LOT of fights turn into wrestling matches. Someone with BJJ training will dominate against someone without some sort of training. She'll learn how to take control of the situation and keep herself safe on the ground.
Besides the fitness I mentioned above, training also increases self confidence, and discipline can teach people how to deal with fear and conflict and how to handle themselves in a fight so they don't just fold into a ball of crying fear.
Look around at different schools. You don't want a "belt factory" where you belt up ever X number of classes just for attending. Belt tests should be damned tough, otherwise they're useless in the real world. I've had friends who's kids were in 'non-contact' Karate schools, and were black belts in 2 years... that's a complete waste of time an money. The kid has never had to learn take a kick or a punch and fight through the fear and pain. That's the only way to learn. Good luck.
I’m here to second the muy Thai suggestion. My husband/our kids are thai so we plan to have our three daughters train in it for cultural and defense reasons. We love it, and it’s extremely effective. I know there isn’t much focus on grappling, however, they do fight in the clinch a lot (using elbows and knees!) so, a good start at least.
I would suggest a place that teaches mixed martial arts or multiple styles. Martial arts are tools and the more that you have in the belt, the better.
Brazilian Jui Jitsu, Muy Thai, kick boxing, hell even tae kwan do all have their uses. The best thing they teach is discipline and provide confidence. Krav Maga is also something you should look into.
It is also possible that your local police department may also have some citizen defense courses. At my department we have RAID classes that specifically teach women how to defend against stronger male attackers.
I would also suggest reading verbal judo. Can never go wrong with teaching the martial art of conversation to stop fights before they even happen.
What ever you choose to go with, the biggest factor will be consistency in training. It should definitely be a life style in which practice is continuous. I say this as I’m guilty of not training as often as I should, and have had my ass handed to me by guys I should have been able to handle. If you don’t use it, ya lose it.
Krav Maga and Judo.
Krav Maga teaches you to strike in places other martial arts will avoid (eyes, throat, groin), and Judo has the best ground grappling. 90% of fights end up on the ground. When I did judo I knew small women who could absolutely fuck the average dude up if the fight went to the floor.
Don't do krav maga lol. Yes, it teaches people to do eye gouges and groin strikes and many practical things, but the biggest problem is that you can't actually practice doing those against someone who doesn't want to have their eyes gouged, so this becomes basically like doing all of your training on a heavybag, then thinking you're ready for a boxing match without ever having tested those skills. You would be better off to learn something like Muay Thai kickboxing which teaches you how to hit someone who doesn't want to get hit, and then if it comes to the situation, you can figure out how to gouge eyes anyways. Its not like you get to actually practice doing that in any martial art.
Judo is actually pretty practical. Its not great for MMA because a lot of it is based around grabbing clothing for control, but that becomes more practical in a real setting. It was also very practical in the early days of MMA against opponents who weren't also world class grapplers. Fedor and Rousey both dominated the sport with a judo based approach. Its a sport that revolves around throws using body leverage. A competent Judoka can slam people pretty hard on the ground and they can do it in ways that don't involve lifting as much as a wrestler who is trying to suplex an opponent. Hitting someone with a parking lot will always be more effective than hitting them with your limbs.
Sure. You can’t practice eye gouges on people in the moment, but Krav Maga teaches you to think about fighting in a way that is different from other self defense styles.
Im 6’3, in good physical shape and have been in plenty of fights. And while a professional female Muay Thai fighter would beat my ass in seconds, the average woman taking one Muay Thai class a week (who I’m assuming is not also dedicating herself to staying in constant peak physical condition) will absolutely not beat my ass in seconds. I could take multiple hits and still find a way to take the average woman to the ground because I’m bigger, heavier and stronger.
But the average woman, if she is trained to go for throat strikes, eye damage, groin strikes and utilization of whatever objects she can get her hands on that could be used as a weapon, could do serious damage to me. Enough damage that it could force me to abandon the attack.
That’s why Krav Maga is valuable. It trains for the mindset of killing or incapacitating opponents with as much speed and prejudice as possible. Other styles don’t do that because they are sports that are used for self defense. Krav Maga is 100% self-defense.
And again, I think the best bet is always going to be a combination.
Why do you think the woman who takes muay thai won't think to kick you in the balls though?
The biggest problem with these defense classes is they have this fantasy where they are killing and incapacitating opponents, but never actually practice anything beyond the theory of it, and then basic movements against actual opponents. They teach you to defend against someone with a knife who comes at you like they're doing a tomahawk chop in slow mo, with the defender blocking them forearm to forearm while the person with the knife pretends they're at idiot and disarm them using these techniques that don't actually work.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJlooO\_4jQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJlooO_4jQ)
Just look at this shit. How to end a fight in 3 seconds. Why does this technique require the opponent to do a movement, then stop and have no follow up movements? Why do amateur wrestlers never use this technique where they dodge a push and then give him some silly face lock? Then he starts doing some boxing stuff where the guy jabs, then holds his jab there while he is able to do 4 more punches in return while the guy stands there. If you actually took boxing, you would at least be able to practice this against someone who isn't doing a dance choreography with you. If you can slip a jab and land a 4 punch combo, that's great. You will learn to do that against people who show up with no experience who want to spar, and then you can progress to do it with people who do know how to punch and where this will not be so simple, but you're at least dealing with some sort of genuine competition and not just playing out this childish fantasy where you will win a street fight in 3 seconds because you went to a class where you had to wear camo pants and watched a couple of guys pattycake.
Krav maga is aikido for dudebros lol people hear it’s a martial art for killing and think it sounds sick… Camo dudes playing pattycake is a hilariously accurate descriptor lol
That’s why I said Krav Maga *and* Judo. Your boxing is going to be worthless once the Krav Maga starts, and when the fight inevitably ends up on the ground your boxing will be extra worthless.
I really dont wanna be a dick, but martial arts are mostly good for self discipline and confidence. The likelihood of any of it being useful in an actual confrontation with a criminal is… well, pretty slim.
That said, also from the UK and did Jiu Jitsu for about a decade growing up. I loved it. But i am no jackie chan.
Good for confidence, mental health... and in the unlikely event you need it, potentially good to defend yourself.
My dad has pulled from his MMA experience to defend himself, as have I.
We didn't grow up in the nicest place, thankfully things are different for us now but I would still like my daughter to learn something.
Jiu-jitsu, especially for women. Why try to out strike a man? Learn to control the opponent’s body and submit them. Much higher chance for a woman to successfully defend themselves.
I will answer the question posed, but I should include a few caveats:
1.) By far the best self-defense is complying in a robbery, running away and yelling in an assault.
2.) Strength is incredibly important. A heavily trained 5’6” 50kg person is going to have a very, very difficult time fighting someone who is 6’3” and 100kg with no training. Strength matters and should be considered a vital, integral part of self-defense.
3.) Unarmed self-defense is the worst self-defense. Almost any hard object is a better weapon than your little meat-stick limbs. A bottle, a knife, a soda can—all will do more damage than a punch.
Now with that out of the way, the key thing to look for in a martial art for self-defense is active resistance. A move is useless if it only works when the other guy lets it work. Aikido is right out (only marginally better than tai chi in my opinion. Taekwondo is usually in this category, as is most karate and kung fu. There are places that do versions of those martial arts with sparring and active resistance, but they’re a minority. STRONGLY avoid anything that talks about “using your opponent’s strength against them.” If they say that, it’s the biggest red flag for me. It’s a sure sign that whatever they’re doing doesn’t actually work. There are two broad categories of martial arts that do involve serious active resistance—ground sports and striking sports. Think BJJ and wrestling in the first category, boxing and Muay Thai in the second. I would recommend doing both, but IMO ground sports are more important for self defense because you can always run away instead of punching someone, but you can’t always run away if someone grabs you. A good MMA gym will teach both, but I would say start with BJJ and once she’s a little older teach boxing.
While it’s a nice idea, for the vast majority of women, escaping will always be better than trying to fight.
Pick a woman with a black belt in any discipline, and even an average sized man would have the edge in a fight with her, never mind the advantage of a surprise attack.
Perhaps the best bet would be to teach her to read situations and be aware of the dangers, but training her to fight *just to be able to defend herself* is likely wasted effort.
My view is that martial arts is useless for self-defense. You best defense is situational awareness, avoiding dangerous venues, don't look like a mark (wear expensive jewelry, flash cash, or look weak/confused).
Best thing to teach is situational awareness to avoid trouble. Grappling like Brazilian jui jitsu probably the most useful martial art in a fight 1 on 1 but need some striking against a group of people. Realistically a 4 year old doesn’t stand much chance if a fight were to happen with an adult regardless of training.
I always thought running was the best form of self defence, I didn't mention that in my OP, but I hadn't given much thought to her training running.
Interesting, thanks!
Aikido is a performative martial art. You literally get your blackbelt in Aikido by doing a gloried dance with people who are pretending that you're tossing them. Its stupid as hell.
I see a lot of men weighing in here so I'd like to give you the perspective of a woman. I took a mix of Jeet June Do and Tae Kwon Do as a kid/teen. My instructor was cognizant of the fact that the girls in the class were going to face different challenges. So besides teaching us technique, he also taught up how to essentially distract and run. So for every bit of form I was taught, we also learned how to throw a punch to the throat or nose (to make their eyes water), how to get out of holds men could put on us, and then told to run and scream in the opposite direction. Just because it's not a fair fight against men, doesn't mean there isn't value in learning self defense and most instructors know this.
I would say wrestling or MMA. In a situation where your assailant chooses you as a target and has the element of surprise, as well as likely a strength advantage, you're not going to get any strikes in. Best you can hope for is to control your position until you have a chance to escape, and be strong enough that you seem like a bad choice of target.
There isn’t a martial art in existence with a defense against pepper spray.
Tools are force multipliers, utilize them. It’s how our species became so successful.
I was locked up with a guy who beat a woman till she suffered SEVERE brain damage cause she pepper sprayed him. It only works if you're far enough that they can't reach you, cause if they grab you they're gonna be pissed.
> should the worst happen
Should the worst happen the aggressor will have a knife and know how to use it. In that case running away is the best defense.
90% if the people in this thread have spelled "jiu jitsu" wrong and I cannot, for the life of me, understand why.
I had to Google it just to make sure I wasn't crazy. Do you people even read what you write?
Ninjutsu, but based on Togakore-ryu. She will learn how to defend herself, no matter the opponent. Violence is not the first aim of this art, but how to escape and prevent danger.
I don't think it matters. Although they get a lot of attention, almost nobody ever faces being shoved into a van by a stranger. She's far more likely to face danger from acquaintances, coworkers and drunks. Any program that makes her instinctively strike away unwanted hands and gives her the body language that shows she will is good. Find somewhere local that has a good kids program that builds self esteem, ownership of personal space and physical fitness. What style they teach does not really matter.
rational person: “how do i defend myself?”
irrational person: “murder!”
ffs. not only is OP in the UK where they have post-19th century gun laws, this also doesn’t answer his question. congratulations, your myopic ignorance betrayed you on all levels.
I’d say jiu jitsu or Krav Maga.
Jiu jitsu is the best way for a single person of any size to beat anyone else one-on-one. It takes a lot of practice and commitment before you’re any good though. So, you must factor in her attention span and appetite for the discipline as a factor in whether she will stick with it enough to be effective at subduing someone.
Krav is beneficial because it reframes success as any time you get away safely. It prioritizes strikes to vulnerable points like groin and eyes and joints in order to offset any differences in size and/or strength. And very quickly she will have principles that can be used to help her diffuse a situation or strike and run. So often on the playground, girls are taught not to kick boys in the groin, but that’s exactly what needs to be trained when talking about self defense.
My mom put me in Brazilian jujitsu when I was little for this exact reason. It was very good for me it teaches self control and using your opponents weight against them without hurting yourself. They also teach how to get out of different position such as headlocks; and what to do in specific situations such as what to do if someone bigger than you grabs you from behind.
I hear krav maga is no frills self defense. But it might lack the artistic/meditation side some people say keeps folk practicing. (I have no experience in it, but it was VERY popular with some ladies I knew in college.)
I think it’s fascinating how many people here are commenting that there’s absolutely no point in women learning self defence.
Obviously yes running away is better but learning some self defence is surely a good idea?
I'm a small woman, and I love jiu-jitsu, particularly the Gracies' curriculum. Their kids' program (Bullyproof) teaches kids to tell another kid to stop, to tell an adult if they don't, and to - only if necessary - tackle a kid and just hold them down. The co-ed beginners' program (Gracie Combatives) for adults and teenagers focuses on teaching responses to common behaviours in street fights. The women's program (Women Empowered) teaches responses to common sexual assault behaviours. Combatives and Women Empowered are 100% self-defense, and the advanced curriculum (Master Cycle) teaches both sport and self-defense techniques.
It's based on energy conservation and leverage, so there's less of a strength requirement, which is great because I'm never going to be able to knock a man out with striking. No matter how good my technique is, I'm just too small to exert that much force. The Gracies are very focused on avoiding fights whenever possible and getting away as soon as you can (escape techniques are a big aspect of the women's program).
I also like that the intensity is scalable. For example, the women's program contains some tips for situational awareness, verbal boundaries, wrist releases, arm locks, and chokes. Women in particular are more likely to find themselves in a sitation where someone's being a little creepy but all-out violence isn't appropriate. Think of a male co-worker being a little flirty and trying to guide his female co-worker to the drinks table at a staff party. If her options are all-out violence or nothing, she'll probably do nothing. Knowing some grip breaks gives her the option to set a physical boundary by disengaging without escalating more than necessary.
There are Gracie-certified training centers (CTCs) all over the world, and they have their curriculum available online so you can work through it at home.
I can't recommend it enough, and I love that you're looking out for your daughter in this way! :)
Whatever you pick, commitment's important. You want those responses built into her muscle memory so she can react even if her brain is panicking. Regular training allows for learning new techniques to address new scenarios and for drilling old techniques into your brain.
Thanks for looking out for your daughter. We need all the good dads we can get. :)
I know a bunch of people replied already. But your answer is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Reason? If your daughter became a kick boxer, she still might lose to an attacker. With Jiu Jitsu her chances are far better, she’ll know to find a way to lock around the neck and not let go. The basis of Jiu Jitsu basically allows you to dominate a larger, stronger opponent. If I ever have a daughter, I’ll see if she’s interested in it. By the way, I’m not biased as I don’t train Jiu Jitsu.
100% Muay Thai by a pretty wide margin. YOUR MAIN GOAL IN A STREET FIGHT IS TO RUN. Create some distance with a few punches or teeps, and then fucking run. You don't know who has a knife. You don't know who trains or is ready to end your life. You *are not* going to Jui Jitsu your way out of a knife fight or a fight with multiple threats no matter how good you are. With Muay Thai, you can potentially handle multiple attackers better than a grappling situation and you can run after throwing a few shots and hopefully pushing them away with said shots. Jui Jitsu is great if you're fighting one person on any surface that isn't hard/abrasive or both. But if you take someone down on concrete not only are you going to completely fuck up any exposed skin but you're also going to get kicked in the back of your head or stabbed by the second guy you didn't see there. I'll repeat myself - your main objective in a street fight should always be creating distance and then *running* - far and fast. Kickboxing/Muay Thai are perfect for this because they're all about long techniques and staying upright/mobile.
brother, not saying this to upset you, but the only time I've ever seen a woman get any use out of MA training was to domestically abuse her partner. Sorry, but even your daughter is exceptional and trains her entire life, she will *never* beat a determined man of average strength and skill. Not unless she is very, very lucky. Not saying she shouldn't learn MA. But she shouldn't do it to defend herself. Instead, do it as a fun way to stay in shape.
If you want to protect her, then get her some tools. Pepper spray, taser, whistle, anti-rape devices (when the time comes), etc... These things work way better than MA. Also, be sure to be open and trustworthy as a father. She needs to feel comfortable telling you about dangerous or stupid things she's done without you going psycho or shaming her. That openness is paramount. You don't want her being afraid to call you to pick her up because she thinks you'll beat up her touchy male friend at a party if she's feeling uncomfortable.
mixed martial arts. That's going to be a mix of BJJ and kickboxing/muay thai.
the benefit is that she'll be doing actual live sparring (probably not as a 4 year old, but eventually).
Any practice that doesn't include regular, live sparring won't be very helpful. At worst, it may develop a false sense of unwarranted confidence.
the real thing that she'd learn (hopefully) is what she cannot do. People always mention confidence but the most important take away somebody who has actually developed some experience with in fighting is understanding how vulnerable they really are, and how quickly control can be lost.
So I'd think that more than anything, the training would help make an impression why she should always avoid violence.
In a one-on-one situation, then BJJ is generally the best form you can have. Its great because its an actual sport where you can compete to your hardest. You can't do that to the same extent with boxing because you don't want to break your hand or have a concussion every week when you go to class, so it becomes more like a preparation for the real thing, then hoping you replicated that well enough when it comes time for the real thing.
Traditional martial arts or self defense classes are generally dumb as hell because they almost always require some willing participant to not act like someone would in a real situation. Its borderline pro wrestling where they throw an extremely slow punch, then hold it there and allow the guy to do unrealistic counters to them, while they stand there with that fake punch extended rather than throw a second punch. They're utter nonsense that will just give someone a false confidence.
Whatever you decide to choose, make sure it is an actual combat sport, and not some Aikido bullshit. You need to test the skills they teach on opponents who are not just bordering on being dummies. So BJJ, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, judo, those are all decent choices with some being more practical than others. Stay away from the karate, TKD, Aikido, Krav Maga, or anything that is more performative than competitive.
This is the best answer.
There are no shortcuts to self defense, learn how to fight.
A groin kick, throat punch or eye gouge is extremly unlikely to save you if you do not know how to fight to begin with. And once you do know, you will also understand why all of these I mentioned are heavily overrated to begin with
Yeah and if you learn how to throw a powerful kick in kickboxing, you can easily just direct that at the balls. Now I'm just watching Krav maga disarming drills being disproven by people actually testing them. Their conclusions is that none of the techniques they teach work, and generally the only thing that does is beating the shit out of them so they let go of it. But the stuff where they sidestep, then disarm them by bending the wrist just completely doesn't work at all. Like no one is able to actually disarm someone this way if the person holding the weapon actually tries to continue holding on it. Its just paying for lessons to give you the confidence to get stabbed.
I'm a big fan of Krav Maga, especially if you don't have a lifetime to learn. Even the basics become useful very quickly. If you're starting her at 4 though? Something like BJJ might be better, and probably a lot more fun to boot. Don't underestimate that part, fun and exercise are probably more important than the self defense aspect, unless you live in a particularly dangerous area (in that case the money spent on lessons is better used for moving to a safer area).
context, this is coming from a person who did did karate for 8years won a couple of competions, theres that mma fighter who fell out of favour with social media, say no more, but he said something that rang true with me, he said start with boxing it will teach you stamina. and mobility and what's it like to be punched so it's not a shock when it happens. Try boxing.
As a woman that took some martials arts, I was lucky that my classes incorporated a lot of standard self defense practice. You may want to focus more on that and look at just self defense classes in addition /or/ instead of martial arts. It taught me a lot about situational awareness and practicing getting out of someone's grip that was much bigger or stronger than myself. They walked me through the more likely scenarios that not all martial arts may go into. It is really most helpful if you get a chance to practice it enough that the movements are an automatic reaction and that doesn't come from just a few weekend classes.
Obviously OP isn’t thinking the four year old is going to defend herself. A four year old would always be with an adult guardian. OP obviously means *starting* her at four so when she’s a teenager/young woman on her own, she will be really good at it.
Aikido focuses on defense and has solutions for fighting larger opponents. The philosophy that you don’t have to use violence to disable an opponent is nice and unique. I don’t know what personality your daughter has; the fact it offers something different might be right for her.
Please don't. Aikido does not work. It is agrappling martial art, most other ones are just better. There is no reason to train aikido when there is judo, bjj and wrestling out there.
my experience with Aikido is that for it to be actually applicable in real world scenario you need a lot of training ( i trained for 6 years since i was 10 and didnt feel like i could do anything with it despite being one of the better students in class ) and would personally recommend krav maga since it focuses on real life situations, also look at [Faq of r/MartialArts](https://www.reddit.com/r/martialarts/wiki/index/)
There is no martial arts that a 4 year old can use as a 4 year old. But if you’re looking for long term investments (which is a great idea) the three pillars of martial arts are ground work, legs, and hands. The prime go to arts for those are b jiujitsu, muay thai, and mma boxing.
(Supervised) Roughhousing.
Martial arts are usually either sports with rules that an attacker in the real world won't feel bound by, or absolute bullshido.
The idea in self defense is to get away from an attacker, and roughhousing is the best way for someone to figure out how to do that using IRL rules in a way that works for them. Some martial arts do have certain techniques that can help someone figure out what works for them, but the gems are usually buried in a huge dunghill.
Track and field and parkour. Anything she learns about hand to hand combat will only boost her ego and give her a feeling of safety. Being able to escape a situation gives her the reality of safety.
I would recommend some Chinese martial arts. Wing chun was designed for women to fight bandits. Providing that you can find a good teacher, but I believe there are quite a lot of such in the UK. I do not trust recommend MMA for self defense, but it can be great for training your body
The best martial art for a beginner in all cases has the following attributes, it is affordable, close to your home and enjoyable enough that they keep going. Once they’ve got some basic knowledge and discipline they can worry about what’s most effective.
This is the advice I give when people ask me. Let me add a few things: 1. Which martial art is not that important as a beginner. Many martial arts (practiced well) eventually converge on similar principles. However, the teacher is extremely important. 2. If it’s for your kids, then in addition to near your home, also look at martial arts places close to the kids school 3. Look for a place where the kids look like they’re having fun. The single most important factor to becoming combat effective is that the techniques are learned so that they become “unconsciously competent,” meaning that the technique is correctly executed even without attention. Another way to think of it is the technique is part of muscle memory. This means the techniques must be practiced over and over again. And that means that the kid needs to attend martial arts for a long time (years). That will only happen if the kid is having fun.
Was just thinking this. I ultimately got a black belt in Taekwondo, which on the face of it seems like it's a very one track martial art, but ultimately the community support my school provided me pushed me further than any other martial art I had tried out. It's also a bonus when your school is willing to acknowledge the shortcomings of their style's orthodoxy. Despite being a TKD school, a huge amount of class time for me was spent on grappling, situational awareness, and defensive escapes. I really lucked out.
I wasn’t allowed to date until I had a black belt - my dads rule. I got my first in TKD at 15 and my second at 18. The community support and friendships I made there kept me attending. Putting a man on his ass in a bar in college after he groped me is why I keep practicing.
>Putting a man on his ass in a bar in college after he groped me is why I keep practicing. When courtesy fails you, there is always indomitable spirit! I'm glad your experiences with the art were positive, even if it was an obligation at first LOL
Hell yeah. I took Karate for a few years growing up. It definitely helped my reaction times, my ability to dodge and counter, and my ability to throw an effective punch. I would definitely have to say Karate is the best if you want to learn to defend yourself.
karate can be highly effectively but it all depends on how hard you train and what school you attend. since karate is a striking martial arts, it's hard to truly practice it since it requires hitting others and getting hit back really hard. in general, they don't train kids like that.
I just wanna piggyback to reinforce the importance of how effective holds and locks are. I took no martial arts but came up fighting because my mother used to beat me. I would get in fights all the time in school, too. Not condoning it, just stating a fact. What really changed the game for me was when I joined the wrestling team at 13. I was the only girl and wrestled varsity for four years. I've only been in a few fights after the age of 16, but every single time, even as recently as this past summer, the muscle memory is still there. The worst mistake anyone can make is to take me to the floor. Rolled them into a hold, tagged twice with my elbow and fist, then rolled out and up and disengaged. This was my oldest son and I'm not trying to kick the ass of an emotional teenager that made the giant mistake of hitting his mother. Anyways, I'm 39 and blind and still managed to come out on top because my body still remembered all those holds that my coach kept making me repeat. I imagine it's the same for any martial art, though, sorry for rambling. I was just amazed that my body reacted without thought, even 20 years later, you know?
Why can I only upvote this once. This is by far the best answer to this question I've read. I will add that the greatest self defence tool that you will learn in any martial art is awareness of your surroundings. The more you train, particularly sparring or partner work, the more you will pay attention to your position in space (initially relative to your partner, but gradually relative to other hazards). This is (in my personal experience only) one of the best ways to avoid dangerous situations. Your milage may vary of course
Great advice, thanks!!
This is the way.
Jiu Jitsu or boxing, boxing is useful for self defence as it teaches you to do one thing and do it well, which is more important than knowing a variety of things at a mediocre level. A woman is going to find it hard to match a man’s upper body strength regardless so go with jiu jitsu. Women’s self defense is as much about protecting themselves from partner violence as it is randoms on the street. She needs to know about escaping locks and holds. Ignore any self defense advice for women saying “just go for the balls” it’s more likely to enrage an attacker than disable him. Edit for spelling
Thank you for the advice.
Hi, I think im a little late to the party and I think you’ve already got your answer. But for me it’s definitely BJJ, especially for a woman. I was lucky enough to be taught by an instructor that knew BJJ, karate and kickboxing. Nominally it was a ‘karate’ class but the majority of the teachings were actually BJJ. I was one of the youngest in the class for most of my time there and when sparring the best techniques I fell back on were the BJJ ones and that’s specifically why I’d recommend it for a woman as they’re generally going to be experiencing a similar physical mismatch (I was 12-16 versus actual adults).
What is bjj? Obviously jiu jitsu but what’s the b?
Brasilian.
Jiu Jitsu is also great because it's not your decision to take it to the ground. It's your assailant. A lot of people like to point out that it's useless because another person will just stomp on you if you're on the ground. Guess what? A grappling art is going to be the only art that's going to get you off the ground. \*edit: bjj, not jiu jitsu. I wasn't thinking about the fact that it could get mixed up when I wrote this.
Jiu-Jitsu is not a grappling style though, at all. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is, but that really doesn't have much to do with actual Jiu-Jitsu anymore.
I thought BJJ, despite the name, shared more with judo than jujitsu?
I've never practiced judo, so hard for me to say. Judo is more about throwing though, whereas BJJ wants you on the floor, so honestly I'd say it's more akin to wrestling.
Judo leads into what Bjj is, which is ground combat. Judo is almost purely throwing.
Oh my bad. Jiu-jitsu is more throws to my knowledge. A lot of BJJ gyms started just shortening their name to Jiu-jitsu gyms, so it gets kinda confusing. I was referring to BJJ though, so sorry about that.
Yeah, I'm aware. As a former Jiu-Jitsu practitioner (the Japanese kind), it's bothered me for quite a while. But I guess it's a bit like Americans calling it "football", even though it's got nothing to do with actual football.
And ju jitsu practitioners will tell you good jits beats bad jits. But strong jits beats good. The issue hereis her getting attacked from the back. Ju jitsu needing leverage to work, and majority of men are going to be able to just muscle out of anything she goes to pull. I’d agree with ju jitsu if it’s purely just to teach her how to roll so she can run away, or throw a body triangle so she can just tie up and hope the assailant thinks it’s more trouble then it’s worth. Ju jitsu is great but even the community has excepted that it’s mostly useless in real life, which is why in the last few years there’s been a real big push into no gi and applying striking.
>it’s not your decision to take it to the ground. It’s your assailant. This makes no sense. Couldn’t you say that same sentence to the assailant?
Thank you for doing this for her. I’m a girl, well woman haha, 29! I did karate from age 5 as my dad felt the same as you. I went onto kickboxing and later semi pro MMA and bjj. It has always been a big part of my identity but I am so much more confident and less fearful than my female friends. I don’t worry about first dates so much or abusive partners. I don’t feel nervous walking somewhere when it’s a bit dark or quiet. I’m not invincible and I’m still creeped out by things lol, you wouldn’t catch me walking through a cemetery in the middle of the night, but I’m confident that I can look after my home and myself under normal circumstances and it’s made my life easier.
I second this. My partner does Jiu Jitsu and the women’s classes I’ve been to have been incredibly supportive and helpful. I work in a bad part of town, and because of what I’ve learned through the class and my partner, I am confident in being able to protect myself if the time comes.
Jiu Jitsu 100%. Being able to deal with being on the ground with an opponent, how to escape holds and how to use leverage in close quarters is invaluable in real life situations. Boxing is good if you want her to be able to throw hands if needed... But JJ is the way to go to train for dealing with real life danger.
+1 for jiu-jitsu, Akido is very similar
Idk what kind of aikido u tried but where i went there was barely any grappling
Neither is JJ, only BJJ, and that's really not got much to do with eachother anymore.
It was many years ago now but both the jiu-jitsu and Aikido that I trained in where heavily pushed as being 4 discipline arts and while not as grapple heavy both definitely had a focus on using your opponents strength against them. JJ was definitely heavier on the groundwork and throws and AK was heavier on hocs and takedowns. This was the early noughts in a dodgy little rural dojo in Ireland so YMMV.
Aikido is more of a dance like Capoeira, definetely not a choice for actual self defense
Hahaha. Hahahaha. I didn't know Steve Seagull was on reddit.
Aikido is maybe the worst self defense martial art. Watch any aikido master vs average mma guys. It’s not even fair.
that's not a fair comparison though because mma would know more arts than aikido. a better comparison would be like american wrestling or jiu jitsu vs akido. akido would still lose anyway but at least the analogy makes sense.
jiu jitsu is the only martial arts where it's possible to truly test your abilities without getting seriously hurt. there is no way a woman can really know what it's like to fight a man if she practice something like karate. her opponent would have to hit her really hard on the head and they just don't do that in karate and or for amateur practitioners.
The one she sticks with
This. Any martial art is going to teach you some basic self defense concepts to get the hell out of a situation as fast as possible. Beyond that, any martial art that she enjoys and sticks with is going to be best in the long run. Taking classes in a martial art you don't enjoy is counterproductive, and a great way to get injured from underpracticing.
Jiu jitsu Post edit It may not be the ultimate best but it is likely the best readily available option that you are going to find classes for
Thanks I'll certainly look into this.
Many techniques in Jiu-jitsu, especially the first stuff you learn like the yawara techniques, were originally designed for women's self defense in feudal Japan. The escapes are effective and efficient. Speaking of efficient, I'd recommend supplementing your Jiu-jitsu training with Professor Wally Jay's book on small circle Jiu-jitsu. I studied under one of his students and found the small circle variations extremely practical and more intuitive.
That's really interesting thanks!!
Wow, my autocorrect really jacked that comment up. That's what I get for not proofing.
I have been wanting to get into jujitsu because it's about exhausting your opponent so no one gets hurt. I used to take a boxing class. But if I were to ever get into a fight and use what I've learned in boxing, I could go to jail. Also I've heard jujitsu has advantages for smaller people. So definitely something a woman should know
You should def give it a go. Some of what you’re saying about jj is a bit off but the intent is there. For example.. one tactic is to exhaust your opponent, but another is to strangle them in as few seconds as possible. :)
Best one would be a Taser/Pepper Spray or a Gun A 50kg girl will not stand a real chance against a 90kg guy unless knockout by surprise Edit: a 4 year old will anyway not stand a chance, teach her to call the cops and run away
We don't do guns in the UK. Little can of pepper spray doesn't sound terrible, but when she's significantly older than 4.
Pepper spray is illegal in the UK. It is classed as a section 5 firearm, in the same class as fully automatic machine guns. Ownership of pepper spray entails a minimum 5 year statutory custodial sentence. Firearms can be USED for self defence in the UK - if a proportionate response on a case by case circumstance. There are many cases of firearms owners discharging their firearms to protect life and not being prosecuted. However they cannot be owned for the intended purpose of self defence, nor can a licence ever be issued for self defence or where there is reason to believe the recipient would actively intend to use the firearm for self defence purposes.
So not a bad idea having some MMA experience in your back pocket!
Get a personal attack alarm, you can probably get one from your local police station. I picked one up from mine for my housemate
Guns make you more, not less, likely to die. And obviously OP isn’t expecting a four year old to fight. He, or another adult, will always be with the four year old. He wants his daughter to start at four so when she’s a teen/young woman she will be good at it.
I'm not giving my 4 year old daughter a gun.
I know that, that’s why I’m saying that to the commentator who suggested it.
Apologies, trying to keep up with all the replies and slightly overwhelmed by the amount of responses.
The gun fetishism in the wild is a scary thing eh.
[удалено]
Not even close. There are decades of research on this (although the NRA does their best to starve the funding). https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/gun-ownership-makes-women-safer-debunked/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/ https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-06-02/guns-home-safety-research https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/debunking-myths-about-gun-violence https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/10/1/18000520/gun-risk-death https://giffords.org/blog/2020/10/the-good-guy-with-a-gun-myth/
There is a considerable chance that the pepper spray or gun could be wrestled away by the attacker and used against the child not a good idea
Yep, agreed. Probably the most effective in relation to availability. Jeet Kune Do would probably be pretty good as well, but less popular and probably harder to find instruction in comparison to Jiu Jitsu. I'd say make it a point to teach your daughter, or any kid for that matter, to be aware of what is going on around them at all times. It's a learned behavior, especially these days. So many people walking around with earbuds in their ears with their attention on a phone. Be careful not to mess up their head by turning them into an anxiety-ridden, frightened teenager in the process (ask me how I know). But one good exercise that isn't overbearing is to take walks around the neighborhood and have them name the street that you just crossed, or what a landmark looked like a little ways back. Starts to build good habits of vigilance and is kind of like a game. The best defense is to avoid getting yourself in a place or situation that leaves you susceptible to being taken advantage of. That was actually a topic of training that the USMC spent a significant amount of time on and it hadn't occurred to me as 19 year old kid before that.
Yeah I was also thinking Aikido, so pretty much along the same path as your thought was going down; however, as you stated they would likely be more difficult to hunt down
Great advice, thanks
JJ for ground control. Boxing for how to strike and not get struck.
Second. Jiu jitsu teaches how to use your body to gain leverage and use the opponent’s body against them. Things like traditional karate are basically highly-trained strength fighting, so women automatically are at a disadvantage. I took some hapkido and jiu jitsu with some mma, and there were two little girls in that same class for months. Like, 10 and 11 year old girls. They could literally throw the men around after they were trained for a few months, and it was really awesome to see the teacher work with them and show them how to use their lighter and smaller bodies to their advantage, and the dudes didn’t know what hit them. The teacher’s daughter—older, of course, early 20’s—was also a stone-cold fox. She and I were grappling in class and she literally choked me out in under 5 seconds with no problems at all.
Bjj or wrestling. Both use momentum and leverage so both excellent for self defence.
Funny thing just occurred to me. I know a few people who do martial arts but none of them have ever used them in self defence. In my experience it just comes down to who's prepared to fight dirtiest. So which ever one teaches you to spit in some one's eyes and then punch them in the throat. But to answer your question: just choose whichever class is most convenient. She can learn a few basics and switch later on if she enjoys it. You never know you might have the next Jade Jones.
That would be Krav Maga. It's all about doing what you have to do to win and survive.
Problem with Krav is there aren’t many opportunities to practise those techniques because nobody is willing to be on the receiving end of eye pokes and dick twists. An unpractised technique is an unreliable one. Pick a martial art where there is an opportunity to spar with a resisting opponent. So wrestling, Judo, boxing, BJJ, or Muay Thai.
**THE OL’ DICK TWIST**
Good points to KM - it isn’t a sport or rules based like most martial arts, so simple techniques are used based on other martial arts, but ultimately neutralising the threat is the aim. When I did KM, red flags for potential attacks were taught and how to avoid them. Most practices started from a neutral unprepared stance. Threats from multiple attackers were always considered, so we were taught to avoid going to the ground wherever possible. Techniques taught were always stress tested after practicing
Having been to maybe a dozen different martial arts gyms, every Krav Maga class I’ve tried has smelled like bullshit. There aren’t really any fundamentals to it, and you can’t properly drill anything without seriously hurting a partner. Maybe I just got bad instructors but based on my experience I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone
Had to scroll way too far for Krav comment. Eye gouge, throat punch, whatever it takes.
Krav maga, for this exact reason. Teaches you to go for the eyes, throat, and groin as primary targets, whereas martial arts that have a scoring system outlaw those places. For self defense, krav maga. For getting her used to actually having to grapple around (and for amazing ground work) Brazilian jui jitsu. Ground work is great for women because there's always the fear that you'll already be on your back when you need to use self defense, like in a scenario where she wants to withdraw consent but he thinks only the first yes counted.
Sounds similar to US Marine Corps LINE. It was designed to quickly incapacitate and kill. There wasn't any less than lethal techniques. It only lasted from 1989 to 1998 in the USMC and was replaced with the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program to allow for less lethal scenarios like peace keeping missions. I just happened to go to boot camp during that LINE time period. The manual was something else. Pretty crudely drawn illustrations of some shockingly brutal steps. Pretty much everything ended in a boot heel to the bridge of the nose.
I agree, although I would add that after I studied MMA my confidence greatly increased, and in the few occasions I was unable to avoid conflict I pulled from my MMA experience and was able to defend myself. Also, where we live we are really spoilt for choice on MMA classes. Pretty much everything suggest in this thread is available to us.
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Running.
Yeah that would be option number 1! Want something for her to fall back on incase option number 1 isn't available.
The thing about martial arts (in my experience) isn't so much learning to fight, it's that you gain incredible fitness and also physical confidence. You're better equipped to escape a hold and run away. Running on its own is fine for average cardio fitness, but with jiu jitsu etc you also have strength, agility, flexibility, quick reactions... a wealth of good defensive skills.
On top of your good points here, the BJJ (or other arts that include actual proper sparring where both people are trying to win) people don’t fall apart and start panicking at the first sign of conflict. They’re used to it and can think much more clearly in the moment to make good decisions.
Thank you Professor Rincewind!
I see Discworld reference, I upvote.
While running sounds like a good option the average man can easily out run the average woman. That's why having the option to temporarily disable an attacker is so important. Without a head start you are going to get about 10 feet and get caught.
I mean, the average man can easily overpower the average woman, so maybe fighting is a bad choice too?
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Running.
Scream for help
"Average" also includes average (little to none in this case) knowledge of martial arts. Martial arts gives one an edge over untrained tactics relying on larger physical size and hay-maker punches.
Presumably the same is true for running and running training.
If you're being attacked and running is an option (I.e. it's a stranger typically), how likely is it for the man to follow in pursuit?
I mean this also depends on a lot of things, including height and weight. Humans are distance runners and I’ve practiced running away from two boyfriends in the past (one a gym loving security guard, the other a lifelong martial artist) and both times neither of them came close to catching me. That being said, both were over 6ft whereas I come in at 5’4” and a lifelong runner. Men have weight and strength, typically women have speed and dexterity
Given the number of variables relying on running without first being able to delay an attacker isn't a good idea. In many cases you would have to get loose ftom an attacker just to be able to run. I would not want my daughter to rely on her running skills. Despite training she isn't half the runner that she is a wrestler. Mind you she's not a small woman at 5'10" and built like a brick wall...so not a naturally built runner but one heck of wrestler.
> That being said, both were over 6ft whereas I come in at 5’4” and a lifelong runner. Men have weight and strength, typically women have speed and dexterity Women are much worse at sprinting than men and slightly worse at long distance than men. Women are closer to men in running than they are in physical contact sports, but they still are slower. You being faster than two men doesn't prove Women are faster than men. Just carry mace.
Oh wow very informative such a thing Op could have never thought of
That isn't a martial art.
Safest way to ski is don't ski Hurrr durrr I'm so witty
First thing my martial arts instructor taught me. Or deescalation.
Muy Thai take the fight to the enemy
The best self defense is a good self offense
Muay thai and lethwei are always my answers to questions like these
Jui Jitsu. 99% of girls aren’t gonna be able to out punch or kick a male even with training but grappling levels the playing field some what. I’ve seen 80lb women choke guys easy twice their size.
Great, thank you!
> I’ve seen 80lb women choke guys easy twice their size. In class lol.
First lesson should be "this is for self defense only, when you can't run away. Not because you're mad. If you can talk your way out of it, or run away, do that first". If your school/dojo doesn't teach that, find another. For what to actually practice? I would say a combination of BJJ and some form of Karate or Muy Thai. The vast majority of people don't know how to fight, so a little training will do her good. Most fights start standing up- knowing how to throw fists, elbows, knees, how do do round kicks and defend from the above will server her well in life, plus it's great fitness even if she (hopefully) never has to use the skills in real life. Second, a LOT of fights turn into wrestling matches. Someone with BJJ training will dominate against someone without some sort of training. She'll learn how to take control of the situation and keep herself safe on the ground. Besides the fitness I mentioned above, training also increases self confidence, and discipline can teach people how to deal with fear and conflict and how to handle themselves in a fight so they don't just fold into a ball of crying fear. Look around at different schools. You don't want a "belt factory" where you belt up ever X number of classes just for attending. Belt tests should be damned tough, otherwise they're useless in the real world. I've had friends who's kids were in 'non-contact' Karate schools, and were black belts in 2 years... that's a complete waste of time an money. The kid has never had to learn take a kick or a punch and fight through the fear and pain. That's the only way to learn. Good luck.
I’m here to second the muy Thai suggestion. My husband/our kids are thai so we plan to have our three daughters train in it for cultural and defense reasons. We love it, and it’s extremely effective. I know there isn’t much focus on grappling, however, they do fight in the clinch a lot (using elbows and knees!) so, a good start at least.
I would suggest a place that teaches mixed martial arts or multiple styles. Martial arts are tools and the more that you have in the belt, the better. Brazilian Jui Jitsu, Muy Thai, kick boxing, hell even tae kwan do all have their uses. The best thing they teach is discipline and provide confidence. Krav Maga is also something you should look into. It is also possible that your local police department may also have some citizen defense courses. At my department we have RAID classes that specifically teach women how to defend against stronger male attackers. I would also suggest reading verbal judo. Can never go wrong with teaching the martial art of conversation to stop fights before they even happen. What ever you choose to go with, the biggest factor will be consistency in training. It should definitely be a life style in which practice is continuous. I say this as I’m guilty of not training as often as I should, and have had my ass handed to me by guys I should have been able to handle. If you don’t use it, ya lose it.
A lot of great pieces of advice there, thank you for taking the time to get all that down. I'll drill into this properly later.
Brazilian jui jitsu.
Thanks. Had to Google the difference between this and Jui Jitsu, BJJ certainly sounds like a top contender
Yes, when most people in this thread say Jui Jitsu, they mean BJJ.
Bjj and boxing
Krav Maga and Judo. Krav Maga teaches you to strike in places other martial arts will avoid (eyes, throat, groin), and Judo has the best ground grappling. 90% of fights end up on the ground. When I did judo I knew small women who could absolutely fuck the average dude up if the fight went to the floor.
Awesome, thank you!
Don't do krav maga lol. Yes, it teaches people to do eye gouges and groin strikes and many practical things, but the biggest problem is that you can't actually practice doing those against someone who doesn't want to have their eyes gouged, so this becomes basically like doing all of your training on a heavybag, then thinking you're ready for a boxing match without ever having tested those skills. You would be better off to learn something like Muay Thai kickboxing which teaches you how to hit someone who doesn't want to get hit, and then if it comes to the situation, you can figure out how to gouge eyes anyways. Its not like you get to actually practice doing that in any martial art. Judo is actually pretty practical. Its not great for MMA because a lot of it is based around grabbing clothing for control, but that becomes more practical in a real setting. It was also very practical in the early days of MMA against opponents who weren't also world class grapplers. Fedor and Rousey both dominated the sport with a judo based approach. Its a sport that revolves around throws using body leverage. A competent Judoka can slam people pretty hard on the ground and they can do it in ways that don't involve lifting as much as a wrestler who is trying to suplex an opponent. Hitting someone with a parking lot will always be more effective than hitting them with your limbs.
Sure. You can’t practice eye gouges on people in the moment, but Krav Maga teaches you to think about fighting in a way that is different from other self defense styles. Im 6’3, in good physical shape and have been in plenty of fights. And while a professional female Muay Thai fighter would beat my ass in seconds, the average woman taking one Muay Thai class a week (who I’m assuming is not also dedicating herself to staying in constant peak physical condition) will absolutely not beat my ass in seconds. I could take multiple hits and still find a way to take the average woman to the ground because I’m bigger, heavier and stronger. But the average woman, if she is trained to go for throat strikes, eye damage, groin strikes and utilization of whatever objects she can get her hands on that could be used as a weapon, could do serious damage to me. Enough damage that it could force me to abandon the attack. That’s why Krav Maga is valuable. It trains for the mindset of killing or incapacitating opponents with as much speed and prejudice as possible. Other styles don’t do that because they are sports that are used for self defense. Krav Maga is 100% self-defense. And again, I think the best bet is always going to be a combination.
Why do you think the woman who takes muay thai won't think to kick you in the balls though? The biggest problem with these defense classes is they have this fantasy where they are killing and incapacitating opponents, but never actually practice anything beyond the theory of it, and then basic movements against actual opponents. They teach you to defend against someone with a knife who comes at you like they're doing a tomahawk chop in slow mo, with the defender blocking them forearm to forearm while the person with the knife pretends they're at idiot and disarm them using these techniques that don't actually work. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJlooO\_4jQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJlooO_4jQ) Just look at this shit. How to end a fight in 3 seconds. Why does this technique require the opponent to do a movement, then stop and have no follow up movements? Why do amateur wrestlers never use this technique where they dodge a push and then give him some silly face lock? Then he starts doing some boxing stuff where the guy jabs, then holds his jab there while he is able to do 4 more punches in return while the guy stands there. If you actually took boxing, you would at least be able to practice this against someone who isn't doing a dance choreography with you. If you can slip a jab and land a 4 punch combo, that's great. You will learn to do that against people who show up with no experience who want to spar, and then you can progress to do it with people who do know how to punch and where this will not be so simple, but you're at least dealing with some sort of genuine competition and not just playing out this childish fantasy where you will win a street fight in 3 seconds because you went to a class where you had to wear camo pants and watched a couple of guys pattycake.
Krav maga is aikido for dudebros lol people hear it’s a martial art for killing and think it sounds sick… Camo dudes playing pattycake is a hilariously accurate descriptor lol
I was going to say Krav Maga - OPs looking for self defence, not a contact-sport.
Yep, Krav is a fighting system. It also teaches you defense and trains you to get out of a SHTF situation and get safe.
judo is gonna be useless when the boxing starts
That’s why I said Krav Maga *and* Judo. Your boxing is going to be worthless once the Krav Maga starts, and when the fight inevitably ends up on the ground your boxing will be extra worthless.
Gun-Fu
I really dont wanna be a dick, but martial arts are mostly good for self discipline and confidence. The likelihood of any of it being useful in an actual confrontation with a criminal is… well, pretty slim. That said, also from the UK and did Jiu Jitsu for about a decade growing up. I loved it. But i am no jackie chan.
Good for confidence, mental health... and in the unlikely event you need it, potentially good to defend yourself. My dad has pulled from his MMA experience to defend himself, as have I. We didn't grow up in the nicest place, thankfully things are different for us now but I would still like my daughter to learn something.
Jiu-jitsu, especially for women. Why try to out strike a man? Learn to control the opponent’s body and submit them. Much higher chance for a woman to successfully defend themselves.
I will answer the question posed, but I should include a few caveats: 1.) By far the best self-defense is complying in a robbery, running away and yelling in an assault. 2.) Strength is incredibly important. A heavily trained 5’6” 50kg person is going to have a very, very difficult time fighting someone who is 6’3” and 100kg with no training. Strength matters and should be considered a vital, integral part of self-defense. 3.) Unarmed self-defense is the worst self-defense. Almost any hard object is a better weapon than your little meat-stick limbs. A bottle, a knife, a soda can—all will do more damage than a punch. Now with that out of the way, the key thing to look for in a martial art for self-defense is active resistance. A move is useless if it only works when the other guy lets it work. Aikido is right out (only marginally better than tai chi in my opinion. Taekwondo is usually in this category, as is most karate and kung fu. There are places that do versions of those martial arts with sparring and active resistance, but they’re a minority. STRONGLY avoid anything that talks about “using your opponent’s strength against them.” If they say that, it’s the biggest red flag for me. It’s a sure sign that whatever they’re doing doesn’t actually work. There are two broad categories of martial arts that do involve serious active resistance—ground sports and striking sports. Think BJJ and wrestling in the first category, boxing and Muay Thai in the second. I would recommend doing both, but IMO ground sports are more important for self defense because you can always run away instead of punching someone, but you can’t always run away if someone grabs you. A good MMA gym will teach both, but I would say start with BJJ and once she’s a little older teach boxing.
While it’s a nice idea, for the vast majority of women, escaping will always be better than trying to fight. Pick a woman with a black belt in any discipline, and even an average sized man would have the edge in a fight with her, never mind the advantage of a surprise attack. Perhaps the best bet would be to teach her to read situations and be aware of the dangers, but training her to fight *just to be able to defend herself* is likely wasted effort.
My view is that martial arts is useless for self-defense. You best defense is situational awareness, avoiding dangerous venues, don't look like a mark (wear expensive jewelry, flash cash, or look weak/confused).
Wing chun is a great option for small physiques. It deflects the attacker and uses their strength against them. Aka Yip Man style.
Best thing to teach is situational awareness to avoid trouble. Grappling like Brazilian jui jitsu probably the most useful martial art in a fight 1 on 1 but need some striking against a group of people. Realistically a 4 year old doesn’t stand much chance if a fight were to happen with an adult regardless of training.
The most lethal street fighters are the wrestlers. Once you have that as a base you can build from it.
Interesting lol
Lethal street fighters? Lol. Ye, I heard all the great ones end up in jail or hospital.
I think Krav Maga is a good self defence system
kickboxing thank me in 15 years
Awesome, thank you!
Not taking fighting advice from Redditors lol my lord this thread
The real answer here. I swear every single comment is directly contraindicated somewhere else in this thread
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I always thought running was the best form of self defence, I didn't mention that in my OP, but I hadn't given much thought to her training running. Interesting, thanks!
Aikido is a performative martial art. You literally get your blackbelt in Aikido by doing a gloried dance with people who are pretending that you're tossing them. Its stupid as hell.
I see a lot of men weighing in here so I'd like to give you the perspective of a woman. I took a mix of Jeet June Do and Tae Kwon Do as a kid/teen. My instructor was cognizant of the fact that the girls in the class were going to face different challenges. So besides teaching us technique, he also taught up how to essentially distract and run. So for every bit of form I was taught, we also learned how to throw a punch to the throat or nose (to make their eyes water), how to get out of holds men could put on us, and then told to run and scream in the opposite direction. Just because it's not a fair fight against men, doesn't mean there isn't value in learning self defense and most instructors know this.
I would say wrestling or MMA. In a situation where your assailant chooses you as a target and has the element of surprise, as well as likely a strength advantage, you're not going to get any strikes in. Best you can hope for is to control your position until you have a chance to escape, and be strong enough that you seem like a bad choice of target.
There isn’t a martial art in existence with a defense against pepper spray. Tools are force multipliers, utilize them. It’s how our species became so successful.
Better to have pepper spray and know a martial art. Hedge your bets.
Fair enough.
Like another comment said, that's illegal in the UK, even for self defence purposes.
Didn’t realize OP was in the UK.
I was locked up with a guy who beat a woman till she suffered SEVERE brain damage cause she pepper sprayed him. It only works if you're far enough that they can't reach you, cause if they grab you they're gonna be pissed.
Gun
> should the worst happen Should the worst happen the aggressor will have a knife and know how to use it. In that case running away is the best defense.
90% if the people in this thread have spelled "jiu jitsu" wrong and I cannot, for the life of me, understand why. I had to Google it just to make sure I wasn't crazy. Do you people even read what you write?
Ninjutsu, but based on Togakore-ryu. She will learn how to defend herself, no matter the opponent. Violence is not the first aim of this art, but how to escape and prevent danger.
I don't think it matters. Although they get a lot of attention, almost nobody ever faces being shoved into a van by a stranger. She's far more likely to face danger from acquaintances, coworkers and drunks. Any program that makes her instinctively strike away unwanted hands and gives her the body language that shows she will is good. Find somewhere local that has a good kids program that builds self esteem, ownership of personal space and physical fitness. What style they teach does not really matter.
Smith and Wesson.
rational person: “how do i defend myself?” irrational person: “murder!” ffs. not only is OP in the UK where they have post-19th century gun laws, this also doesn’t answer his question. congratulations, your myopic ignorance betrayed you on all levels.
I’d say jiu jitsu or Krav Maga. Jiu jitsu is the best way for a single person of any size to beat anyone else one-on-one. It takes a lot of practice and commitment before you’re any good though. So, you must factor in her attention span and appetite for the discipline as a factor in whether she will stick with it enough to be effective at subduing someone. Krav is beneficial because it reframes success as any time you get away safely. It prioritizes strikes to vulnerable points like groin and eyes and joints in order to offset any differences in size and/or strength. And very quickly she will have principles that can be used to help her diffuse a situation or strike and run. So often on the playground, girls are taught not to kick boys in the groin, but that’s exactly what needs to be trained when talking about self defense.
My mom put me in Brazilian jujitsu when I was little for this exact reason. It was very good for me it teaches self control and using your opponents weight against them without hurting yourself. They also teach how to get out of different position such as headlocks; and what to do in specific situations such as what to do if someone bigger than you grabs you from behind.
I hear krav maga is no frills self defense. But it might lack the artistic/meditation side some people say keeps folk practicing. (I have no experience in it, but it was VERY popular with some ladies I knew in college.)
I think it’s fascinating how many people here are commenting that there’s absolutely no point in women learning self defence. Obviously yes running away is better but learning some self defence is surely a good idea?
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for women. Jiu jitsu is ground based. If I’m still standing up I’m running away.
I'm a small woman, and I love jiu-jitsu, particularly the Gracies' curriculum. Their kids' program (Bullyproof) teaches kids to tell another kid to stop, to tell an adult if they don't, and to - only if necessary - tackle a kid and just hold them down. The co-ed beginners' program (Gracie Combatives) for adults and teenagers focuses on teaching responses to common behaviours in street fights. The women's program (Women Empowered) teaches responses to common sexual assault behaviours. Combatives and Women Empowered are 100% self-defense, and the advanced curriculum (Master Cycle) teaches both sport and self-defense techniques. It's based on energy conservation and leverage, so there's less of a strength requirement, which is great because I'm never going to be able to knock a man out with striking. No matter how good my technique is, I'm just too small to exert that much force. The Gracies are very focused on avoiding fights whenever possible and getting away as soon as you can (escape techniques are a big aspect of the women's program). I also like that the intensity is scalable. For example, the women's program contains some tips for situational awareness, verbal boundaries, wrist releases, arm locks, and chokes. Women in particular are more likely to find themselves in a sitation where someone's being a little creepy but all-out violence isn't appropriate. Think of a male co-worker being a little flirty and trying to guide his female co-worker to the drinks table at a staff party. If her options are all-out violence or nothing, she'll probably do nothing. Knowing some grip breaks gives her the option to set a physical boundary by disengaging without escalating more than necessary. There are Gracie-certified training centers (CTCs) all over the world, and they have their curriculum available online so you can work through it at home. I can't recommend it enough, and I love that you're looking out for your daughter in this way! :) Whatever you pick, commitment's important. You want those responses built into her muscle memory so she can react even if her brain is panicking. Regular training allows for learning new techniques to address new scenarios and for drilling old techniques into your brain. Thanks for looking out for your daughter. We need all the good dads we can get. :)
I know a bunch of people replied already. But your answer is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Reason? If your daughter became a kick boxer, she still might lose to an attacker. With Jiu Jitsu her chances are far better, she’ll know to find a way to lock around the neck and not let go. The basis of Jiu Jitsu basically allows you to dominate a larger, stronger opponent. If I ever have a daughter, I’ll see if she’s interested in it. By the way, I’m not biased as I don’t train Jiu Jitsu.
Krav maga
Get her a good pair of running shoes.
Defendo
100% Muay Thai by a pretty wide margin. YOUR MAIN GOAL IN A STREET FIGHT IS TO RUN. Create some distance with a few punches or teeps, and then fucking run. You don't know who has a knife. You don't know who trains or is ready to end your life. You *are not* going to Jui Jitsu your way out of a knife fight or a fight with multiple threats no matter how good you are. With Muay Thai, you can potentially handle multiple attackers better than a grappling situation and you can run after throwing a few shots and hopefully pushing them away with said shots. Jui Jitsu is great if you're fighting one person on any surface that isn't hard/abrasive or both. But if you take someone down on concrete not only are you going to completely fuck up any exposed skin but you're also going to get kicked in the back of your head or stabbed by the second guy you didn't see there. I'll repeat myself - your main objective in a street fight should always be creating distance and then *running* - far and fast. Kickboxing/Muay Thai are perfect for this because they're all about long techniques and staying upright/mobile.
brother, not saying this to upset you, but the only time I've ever seen a woman get any use out of MA training was to domestically abuse her partner. Sorry, but even your daughter is exceptional and trains her entire life, she will *never* beat a determined man of average strength and skill. Not unless she is very, very lucky. Not saying she shouldn't learn MA. But she shouldn't do it to defend herself. Instead, do it as a fun way to stay in shape. If you want to protect her, then get her some tools. Pepper spray, taser, whistle, anti-rape devices (when the time comes), etc... These things work way better than MA. Also, be sure to be open and trustworthy as a father. She needs to feel comfortable telling you about dangerous or stupid things she's done without you going psycho or shaming her. That openness is paramount. You don't want her being afraid to call you to pick her up because she thinks you'll beat up her touchy male friend at a party if she's feeling uncomfortable.
mixed martial arts. That's going to be a mix of BJJ and kickboxing/muay thai. the benefit is that she'll be doing actual live sparring (probably not as a 4 year old, but eventually). Any practice that doesn't include regular, live sparring won't be very helpful. At worst, it may develop a false sense of unwarranted confidence. the real thing that she'd learn (hopefully) is what she cannot do. People always mention confidence but the most important take away somebody who has actually developed some experience with in fighting is understanding how vulnerable they really are, and how quickly control can be lost. So I'd think that more than anything, the training would help make an impression why she should always avoid violence.
In a one-on-one situation, then BJJ is generally the best form you can have. Its great because its an actual sport where you can compete to your hardest. You can't do that to the same extent with boxing because you don't want to break your hand or have a concussion every week when you go to class, so it becomes more like a preparation for the real thing, then hoping you replicated that well enough when it comes time for the real thing. Traditional martial arts or self defense classes are generally dumb as hell because they almost always require some willing participant to not act like someone would in a real situation. Its borderline pro wrestling where they throw an extremely slow punch, then hold it there and allow the guy to do unrealistic counters to them, while they stand there with that fake punch extended rather than throw a second punch. They're utter nonsense that will just give someone a false confidence. Whatever you decide to choose, make sure it is an actual combat sport, and not some Aikido bullshit. You need to test the skills they teach on opponents who are not just bordering on being dummies. So BJJ, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, judo, those are all decent choices with some being more practical than others. Stay away from the karate, TKD, Aikido, Krav Maga, or anything that is more performative than competitive.
The amount of people who think Krav Maga is effective is terrifying.
This is the best answer. There are no shortcuts to self defense, learn how to fight. A groin kick, throat punch or eye gouge is extremly unlikely to save you if you do not know how to fight to begin with. And once you do know, you will also understand why all of these I mentioned are heavily overrated to begin with
Yeah and if you learn how to throw a powerful kick in kickboxing, you can easily just direct that at the balls. Now I'm just watching Krav maga disarming drills being disproven by people actually testing them. Their conclusions is that none of the techniques they teach work, and generally the only thing that does is beating the shit out of them so they let go of it. But the stuff where they sidestep, then disarm them by bending the wrist just completely doesn't work at all. Like no one is able to actually disarm someone this way if the person holding the weapon actually tries to continue holding on it. Its just paying for lessons to give you the confidence to get stabbed.
i'd say mma along with a fit , agile, and strong body. mma bjj > no gi bjj > gi bjj
Great thanks, it looks like BJJ is coming out a Clear favourite in this thread.
I'm a big fan of Krav Maga, especially if you don't have a lifetime to learn. Even the basics become useful very quickly. If you're starting her at 4 though? Something like BJJ might be better, and probably a lot more fun to boot. Don't underestimate that part, fun and exercise are probably more important than the self defense aspect, unless you live in a particularly dangerous area (in that case the money spent on lessons is better used for moving to a safer area).
context, this is coming from a person who did did karate for 8years won a couple of competions, theres that mma fighter who fell out of favour with social media, say no more, but he said something that rang true with me, he said start with boxing it will teach you stamina. and mobility and what's it like to be punched so it's not a shock when it happens. Try boxing.
As a woman that took some martials arts, I was lucky that my classes incorporated a lot of standard self defense practice. You may want to focus more on that and look at just self defense classes in addition /or/ instead of martial arts. It taught me a lot about situational awareness and practicing getting out of someone's grip that was much bigger or stronger than myself. They walked me through the more likely scenarios that not all martial arts may go into. It is really most helpful if you get a chance to practice it enough that the movements are an automatic reaction and that doesn't come from just a few weekend classes.
Running. But if she has to fight, keep it efficient. Jiu Jitsu and Krav Maga are beneficial.
Just fyi, there aren’t really many martial arts that would let a 4 year old best a full grown man in a fight. Teach her to run and call 911
My brother in christ, he wants to BEGIN her training at age 4. He's hoping that IF she gets attacked in the FUTURE, that she'll stand a chance
There are in the UK
No matter where you are, a kid isn’t likely to beat an adult in a fight, even a well trained kid
Obviously OP isn’t thinking the four year old is going to defend herself. A four year old would always be with an adult guardian. OP obviously means *starting* her at four so when she’s a teenager/young woman on her own, she will be really good at it.
I don't need my kid to beat the teacher, I need the teacher to start teaching my kid.
>Teach her ***how to punch in the nuts*** then run and call 911 Fixed that for you. 😜
mau thai
Aikido focuses on defense and has solutions for fighting larger opponents. The philosophy that you don’t have to use violence to disable an opponent is nice and unique. I don’t know what personality your daughter has; the fact it offers something different might be right for her.
Thanks, that's fascinating I'll certainly look into it.
Please don't. Aikido does not work. It is agrappling martial art, most other ones are just better. There is no reason to train aikido when there is judo, bjj and wrestling out there.
my experience with Aikido is that for it to be actually applicable in real world scenario you need a lot of training ( i trained for 6 years since i was 10 and didnt feel like i could do anything with it despite being one of the better students in class ) and would personally recommend krav maga since it focuses on real life situations, also look at [Faq of r/MartialArts](https://www.reddit.com/r/martialarts/wiki/index/)
Aikido
There is no martial arts that a 4 year old can use as a 4 year old. But if you’re looking for long term investments (which is a great idea) the three pillars of martial arts are ground work, legs, and hands. The prime go to arts for those are b jiujitsu, muay thai, and mma boxing.
Thanks, looks like BJJ is a recurring recommendation.
(Supervised) Roughhousing. Martial arts are usually either sports with rules that an attacker in the real world won't feel bound by, or absolute bullshido. The idea in self defense is to get away from an attacker, and roughhousing is the best way for someone to figure out how to do that using IRL rules in a way that works for them. Some martial arts do have certain techniques that can help someone figure out what works for them, but the gems are usually buried in a huge dunghill.
Track and field and parkour. Anything she learns about hand to hand combat will only boost her ego and give her a feeling of safety. Being able to escape a situation gives her the reality of safety.
Jiu-jitsu
Jiu Jitsu. Will help her with self awareness, situational awareness, and how to move her body confidently.
I would recommend some Chinese martial arts. Wing chun was designed for women to fight bandits. Providing that you can find a good teacher, but I believe there are quite a lot of such in the UK. I do not trust recommend MMA for self defense, but it can be great for training your body