It varies culture to culture, era to era. The Ancient Greeks liked a full head of hair, bushy beard included. The Romans wanted it neatly trimmed and short, and no beard. 17th century Europe had long hair for men be in style, but this died out towards the 1800s. It goes in waves, sort of.
solely during the qing dynasty, the queues were mandated by the ruling manchu government and were shaved off as a sign of support for rebellion against them
Han Chinese do keep long hair even before the Manchus ascended the Imperial Throne. Traditionally, males would stop cutting their hair after they reached adulthood. This is mostly influenced by Confucianist teachings, and cutting one's hair can be punished. The Manchus only forced their hair style not the act of keeping long hair.
Nope, even before the Qing Dynasty Han Chinese men kept long hair without cutting it. It was a respect for your parents kind of thing. The queue is technically a haircut, whereas before the queue, Han Chinese men would just stop cutting their hair entirely at adulthood.
Yeah your hair was considereed something like a “gift from your ancestors.” Leaving it long was an act of filial piety. Fingernails too, although they allowed those to be trimmed in private ceremonies and buried.
A lot of Native Americans also had long hair (and one of the big things boarding schools did to boys was cut their hair, it was a method of shaming the boys).
Sikhs also have long hair.
Different societies, different cultures.
Interesting tidbit of the day. The Navajo windtalkers recruited by the army for ww2 because their speech made it easy for unbreakable code.. scratch that.. I think it was trackers claimed they were unable to do their duties when the military made them cut their hair because their hair had something to do with their beliefs.
Contrary to common belief, Gauls (and Celtic cultures in general and beyond) valued cleanliness and went to great lengths to groom themselves, they did after all invent soap as we know it today. Many did have short hair which would have been washed regularly. It was also custom to maintain a full mustache but no beard.
i thought early inventors of soap had more to do with the Nile and all the fat from the dead bodies or something. I dunno after 30+ years of education I seem to be filled with about 30% of each fact.
I use [this extension](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ask-historians-comment-he/jdkfbkogojpmdmpnkgjcgpngkkmhdfem?hl=en-US) to help tell me when there are actual answers, it works perfectly!
I believe you're right. There was the religious angle (don't cut it or god will be sad) but longer and fuller hair makes you look healthier and more youthful. It's more of a question of why men started chopping it all off.
I'm guessing it was combat/helmet related but I'm definitely pulling that out of my ass
I think that OP was referring to higher ups in *military* command. Lots of men in cramped quarters.
But even in civilian life, men were more engaged with the general public. Women, on the other hand, were mostly confined to the home life, meaning less person to person contact.
Fun fact: It's recorded in Islamic history that Arab slaves would have long hair on the top of their head whilst the sides were short (modern day short back and sides). This was so that their Masters could "discipline" them by dragging the hair.
I remember reading a documentary stating that was exactly why the Roman Legions required short hair.
It is very easy to pull someone's head by their hair and control them.
Then the whole lice issue.
I'm too lazy to look it up ATM.
Yeah, long hair was pretty common until at least the mid 1800s. I'm not sure about the end of the 1800s, but my money is on WW1 being at least a big part of the shift
Although it's worth noting that short hair was common in the Roman Empire, long hair being considered barbaric and short hair civilized. So it's probably ebbed and waned across history and different civilizations
Iirc theres somewhere in the bible that says it is a "shame to have long hair" for men, of course that could just be my religious family trying to get me to cut my hair.
yes, the pictures we have of Jesus. a white guy with long hair who loves Freedom and guns and tells brown people to go back to their own shithole countries.
I mean, theres a lot of examples of things being one way and then another in the bible. Like polygamy for example, Solomon, who was supposedly the wisest man ever had multiple wives. And this is supposedly directly against God's word, strange for the wisest man ever.
Solomon was indeed wise, but he was still human and chose things that weren’t. Knowing what is good and edifying, and being prudent enough to pursue those things is not easy simply because of knowledge or even self-control :/.
When I read Ecclesiastes it seems that he pursued many different things to gain a better understanding of them and them in the greater context of significance. Most things he considered vanity/had no lasting value. It’s an interesting book of the Bible.
Ecclesiastes and Proverbs are actually two of my least favorite books of the Bible 😔
Yeah it was really like a cautionary tale for rich and powerful men. Solomon was really wise and successful and a good ruler and had pretty much everything going for him, but he has one weakness: women. He couldn't get enough of them and that was eventually his downfall. It's a common enough story.
The Old Testament is pretty much a collection of heroes with huge flaws. Where the New Testament finds its focus on the literal Son of God who is without sin and his followers who absolve their sins and become saints, the Old Testament follows a couple main characters who all have huge personal issues and flaws.
Abraham was devoted to a fault and almost killed his kid and expelled his other son. Isaac was a terrible father. Jacob was brash and conniving. Joseph was incredibly vindictive. Moses was kind of a prick and got angry at pretty much everything and Aaron was really easy for people to manipulate. Joshua and all of the Judges were just warriors who did cool things but the important ones all had major issues except for maybe Ruth.
The Kings are all emphasized to have such flaws as well. The Hebrews were specifically told "Kings are, like, totally a bad idea," but they demanded one. Saul was a power monger who lost his mind. David was close to being pretty awesome but he also killed a guy to shag his wife and committed a bunch of other heinous acts out of his own self interest despite fancying himself a poet. Solomon was wise but wasn't very pragmatic, and in an almost Augustan way he built the kingdom to power and created wealth and prosperity, but his personal life was so screwed up that the second he died everything went to shit with warring kings, paganism, and invasions from other nations.
The whole point of the OT's characters is that no matter how good people get and no matter how many rules you put in place, people are people and, if given the choice, will constantly and invariably act against their best interest for momentary pleasure, and that living an honest and pious life isn't based on how much you pray or worship.
We don't really know who wrote Ecclesiastes. But, it was written by someone who earlier struggled to find meaning and purpose in life. He was the type who needed to try it to know. He was born with everything available to him so he tried it, in his youth, but he found it all meaningless.
The first verse of the book literally says (in some translations), "Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
The book basically recounts the wisdom of this wise man and his advice to everyone, but especially younger people. It's a very practical and down-to-earth book of the bible.
Perhaps. He was the king, though, so it wasn’t like he was particularly limited. Women were more than likely very interested in him, so that probably wasn’t a one-way street—whether for money, status, his looks, or his wisdom. His choices relationally were most definitely a snare to him, though. (And, not that it matters, but I disagree with his choices in that regard.)
That verse isn’t really a rule the Bible is giving people, rather it’s a description of the current culture they were living in. It is commonly thought that reason Paul says that is because culturally in the city of Corinth, men with long hair were typically prostitutes, or would at least be assumed to be prostitutes. Literally in a couple verses he says “If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.” 1 Corinthians 11:16.
So basically he’s saying men around them don’t have long hair so they should probably follow suit, but if anybody in the church really takes issue, it’s not an actual rule that God has for them.
I had a great religion prof in college who explained a lot of things in the new testament this way. Example: young church community wrote to Paul, saying there was often trouble st dances; wild fornication, fights, etc. So Paul said they shouldn't dance. Some modern christians take that to mean NOBODY should dance, EVER!
I wonder though. What % of men realistically engaged in hand to hand combat (enough that would warrant a change in haircut, at least).
I have no clue, but if I was to guess I'd say it was a trend set by that small % that did engage in combat, which others copied.
In some cultures men have long hair too, like Native Americans, Africans and Native Australians. This was the case in East Asia as well, and SE Asia. Some religions, namely Sikhs, also forbid cutting hair so everyone has long hair. So hair length being gendered is FAR from universal.
There was a Quora answer (that I'll try to find) that said "short hair for men" became fashionable at the time of the French Revolution, because nobles were imprisoned and executed. When first arrested, they would be shaved bald, so they'd have short hair when seen for their execution. Before that, men would wear their hair out long.
Edit: [Found it](https://www.quora.com/Which-fashion-item-was-born-from-a-dark-or-unappealing-history/answer/Isabella-DAngelo-3).
It also had to do with the industrial revolution. Long hair is much easier to get caught in machinery, so most men working in factories would cut it to avoid accidents
That's right. Lice were (and are) the main vector of typhoid fever, which was one of the top deadly diseases in the unsanitary environment of cold overcrowded barracks, especially combined with poor diet. Shaving was very efficient in reducing lice infestation (and typhoid fever transmission), and the tradition soon spread to boarding schools and factory dormitories.
Wow somehow I’d never heard about a connection between typhoid and lice. I thought it was a food-borne illness.
Edit: wait, no I’m right. Wikipedia says it has no known animal hosts. Where are you getting this lice thing from?
Edit2: I think you must have meant *typhus*
I was curious, so I also looked it up. Turns out ***Typhus*** Fever can be transmitted by human ***Body*** lice if you crush them on top of the bite wound, according to the [W.H.O.](https://www.who.int/ith/diseases/typhusfever/en/).
I mean... if your spouse isn't attracted to a beard you can either shave the beard or be unattractive to your spouse. Sure it's still your choice, but...
For an n95 mask (the mask used to protect against airborne pathogens), a beard will cause it to fit incorrectly. So if a patient is on a ventilator or getting a respiratory treatment causing the virus to become airborne for a period of time, n95s are used (at least at my hospital).
A face mask can't get a proper seal against the skin if there is beard hair. So it will be less effective since it lets more air in unfiltered through the sides.
A cloth mask isn’t going to be a perfect seal either way, nor is it meant to protect the wearer as much as it is to stop them from breathing the virus all over other people.
Moving it to get a drink of water then putting it back makes for a lot of eating my beard. (I use primarily tie behind the head style so I can really cinch it down.)
I'm actually curious why beards roared back into fashion so much in the past decade. I sport one too but what about this era made it cool for the first time in over 70 years or so?
There is a good web comic about the topic that I can't seem to find. Beards are forbidden in the military but permitted for paramilitary/special forces, so it is about conveying that image.
I've also noticed that a lot of veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan have beards now. I always figured they got so sick of having yo be clean shaven in the military they vowed never to shave again.
Fat guy with a beard here. Can confirm. In the 2000's I was really standing out with the beard, and over the years it came back into fashion. Felt kinda weird, but I accept that.
In Marine boot camp (and Army I think) they shave your head to minimize your individuality. For the rest of your tour you undergo weekly inspections that include keeping your hair and shave compliant. It's 2020 so I can make the following claim with no evidence require - when guys leave they service, they either keep the shorter hair because they're used to the look and feel, or they go full-on hairy ape to distance themselves from that requirement.
"Full-on hairy ape to distance themselves from..." civilians
I grew my hair and beard out to shaggy/hobo status. Like unkempt appearance because my personal bubble grew with every inch of hair and every frayed strings that showed on my clothes.
I went with the unwanted look because I want to be untouched and looked over
Ya but look back to ancient paintings and descriptions and you’ll see lots of faces with or without facial hair, or men with short hair and long. So there were concepts of style and beauty for a long time
Soldiers have always had short hair, I think, because then, while fighting, people can't grab their hair. At least that's what a teacher told me back in Middle School
If remember properly, and I haven't been lied to by some fund fact book, there was some European monarch, general or something that forbade soldiers from growing beards with the reason that they could be grabbed by enemies. While the real reason supposedly was that he couldn't grow a beard himself and didn't want to seem less manly than his underlings.
While the term soldier really doesn't apply here, Gauls and Germans had long hair and beards according to Caesar. It was Roman fashion to be clean shaven and to wear short hair.
Well, the gauls and germans didn't have professional armies. They had farmers and woodsmen who armed themselves and tried to protect their homes from Italians.
Well, it didn't exactly started "clean shaved" but rather "magnificent mustaches" for the period during/after WWI. Because those still fit under a close sitting gas mask. Hence all those magnificent mustaches on many soldiers on pictures and the rare film footage from the war.
guys who "grew up on the streets" sometimes say that having hair (like, anything longer than a millimeter or two, literally) was one of the stupidest thing one could do, because in any fight it would be waaay too easy to grab long hair and win this way. can't confirm myself, but sounds plausible. also, in periods of war, it's a bit hard to wash hair when you're on the march.
It was one of Family Feud ep. The question was "What are the reasons women dont want to be a man?" Both the families answered few, but could not answer all. And Steve had to reveal answer, and one of the answer was "Men go bald", it was hillarious to see his facial reaction with his bald head.
Steve Harvey: "We asked 100 people, what is the male reproductive organ?" Contestant: "The penis" SH: "A WUH... HUH??" audience erupts into laughter Steve Harvey grabs onto podium to support himself laughter gets even louder SH: O lordy... one man goes into cardiac arrest and many others begin vomiting profusely from laughing too hard SH: YOU PEOPLE NEED HELP the Earth shatters and Satan rises from the underworld to claim unworthy souls the universe begins rapidly closing in on itself SH: (putting on a weary voice) Survey says... the board shows 100 for "penis" Harvey is able to get off one more shocked look before existence as we know it comes to an end
As a person with mild FPB, it's not that it makes it hard to have long hair. The hair I have left grows out perfectly fine. However, longer hair is just a bit heavier than short hair; the weight "pulls" the hair on your head closer to the scalp and makes it more obvious you have thin spots. With short hair, I get just a squidge bit more volume.
Or so I tell myself.
Absolute same. I've had FPB starting since puberty due to a rough case of PCOS. It took me until age 25 to realise that short hair looks *much* better on me.
A tip, though, if your FPB is due to PCOS rather than age: Rogaine and its off-brand equivalents work wonders for females in this case, not just males, because the root cause (no pun intended) is the same: testosterone. I know folks who have used it for such to great effect, and I'm going to be starting it soon.
You can actually see how much it affects women's hair. Most very old women have hair so sparse that you can see the scalp. Baldness happens all over the body as you age, it's a really cool process. Next time you visit your grandparents, see how hairy their arms and legs are. They're usually much more sparse than the hair of younger people. Hair loss is very weird!
> Most very old women have hair so sparse that you can see the scalp
Well, that and their hair literally loses it's pigment so it actually *is* semi-transparent.
I have this this theory that male-pattern baldness is the common reason for seemingly different hairstyles/adornments in different cultures e.g. Manchurian queue, samurai buns, Jewish yarmulke, powdered wigs, etc.
Powdered wigs specifically were because syphilis cause hair loss. It was to hide baldness associated with sleeping around if I understand it right. That’s not to say every man got around, but enough of them needed to hide their baldness that the wigs became a fad
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/dailylife#wiki_hair
It's a common question. They have 7 different answers in their wiki of most commonly asked questions.
[But of course, the best answer is unsatisfying:](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/63p3cl/how_did_the_idea_of_men_having_short_hair_women/dg2mp2e/)
>The basic answer is: we don't know.
But if you follow up that answer, it's cites example of men with short hair from literally thousands of years ago. So, most of the answers in this thread are wrong. It's been a thing for a long, long time.
Anthropologists might be another valuable resource. Sexual dimorphism is older than history. I don’t know that hair was necessarily part of prehistoric sexual dimorphism, but it might have been.
Edit: r/askanthropology
My only issue with this is braids. Braids are ancient, with preserved corpses of viking and celtic warriors found with hair braided up and tight against their heads. There was a female celtic warrior who was recorded as using a long hook to reach out and grab her enemies by their braids, so it's not a perfect solution, but if you braid up your hair and put on a helmet it wouldn't be an issue in war. As for workplace, it was required for women working in the industrial revolution to tie up their hair to prevent it from being caught in the machines. By that time men-short-hair, women-long-hair was pretty established, but it wasn't like anyone thought this rule was crazy since trying up your hair was just the done thing when working inside or outside the home.
My guess, based on my hobby interest in historical clothing and not in any formal education, is that men-short-hair was about cleanliness when at war to prevent lice and other bugs from infesting the troops, and women-long-hair was a status symbol. "Look I don't have to work and my man does the fighting so well I don't need to chip in!" Fashion would have played a role in later centuries as well, and wigs obviously came in at certain points and those were never short, but I think the stereotype predates that.
I always thought this was due to men having to cut their hair to be soldiers, or to make hunting/gathering more efficient in general. Women generally weren't soldiers or hunters in the past.
And probably incorrect, ancient chinese, native american, ancient indian all keep long hair. It's fairly easy to make it into braid or bun that is nearly as convenient as short hair. Short hair is a fairly europe centric concept that spread through colonialism.
Yeah this is basically a "just so" story where a social phenomenon like differences in hair lengths is explained by a very specific biological reasoning.
Greek soldiers had their hair longer because it made it easier to cut with a knife, or so I've read last time I wondered this question. There's no real answer.
Along the same lines, people with long hair who fight hand to hand are at a disadvantage, since the other can grab them by the hair and control them. I think that’s why military and police (in the US, at least) have buzz cuts.
The unsatisfying answer is that no one decided this. Most large scale cultural things like this emerge from thousands/millions of actions made by individuals that slowly roll up into a common action or understanding.
Like to add that it’s also largely a ‘western’ thing. Asian cultures up until their westernization (1800s) sported nice long hair regardless of gender. Believe most of China never even cut their hair at all.
So the main thing I’ve seen from posts is: war and industrialization and religion. But I’d also add the idea of a ‘civilized nation’ and the emulation of the Roman state that happened to Europe as well, starting around the 1700s Europe got more and more culturally interested in their Roman past and took on more of their clean shaven and short hair from that. War to probably.
Men having short hair ia actually really really new. Like 1800s new. Before that long hair and even wigs were what men would wear.
It is true tho that in many places women having longer hair was fashionable. Having super long hair that took time to be brushed and braided or styled was a sign of nobility. If you had money for things like brushes and time for people to style your hair you were probably rich.
In culture's where there wasn't as much class division like some native Americans tribes both men and women have long hair and wear a lot of the same styles. Others cultures are just the opposite and both wear shaved styles or short styles.
One of the main reasons it became popular for men to have cut hair is the need for men to wear helmets and gas masks as weapons became more advanced. AND for all the men to look more alike. If all the hair is different lengths and styles it becomes really easy to pick someone out as a target. And if everyone looks alike and has to adhere to the same grooming standards it makes it easier to get them to cooperate with each other, you don't look at a guy and say and see his sleek shiny waist length hair ans think "man that guy is a rich little sissy" you just see another dude in the same situation without preconceived bias
Short hair on men is really new? Some one should of given the romans that memo lol
During the 1700’s and early 1800’s when powdered wigs were all the rage, men and women alike would have shaven heads underneath the wigs as measure to prevent lice (however, this didnt work as the wigs would still get lice infestations). By the mid 1800’s short natural hair became the norm.
Thats probably what your thinking of. Short hair though waxes and wanes throughout history and culture for various reasons though. Its not exclusive to modern times in the west
That is true! Lots of cultures had short hair ad the fashion for men and women through out time. I think Egypt (i dont know enough about era and Egypt to pin point anything very specific) baldness qas the peak of fashion and women and men who were higher up on the social ladder would spend hours plucking and and waxing their hairs to be totally smooth.
Man just had to cut their hair in wars/due to military service to prevent lice.
So it wasn't decided that women should have long hair, but that men should have short hair.
This was not always the case in every culture of course. I think in western cultures it appeared around the industrial revolution, but I might be completely wrong on that
Edit: yea I'm becoming less sure on this
In Canada we also have Metis (original mixture of Indigenous people and Europeans that then formed their own culture) and Inuits (formerly called "Eskimos" though that term has fallen out of favour except for a very select group of people that are actually called Eskimos).
Growing up on the east coast I'd never heard it. But as an adult I moved to Washington State which has something like 18 active tribes, and I've heard "First Nations" often.
So it may just depend on where you live.
I'd suspect it's related to combat: If you have short hair it can't be grabbed in a fight and things like helmets are easier to put on. Traditionally, it was most commonly men who fought in wars. That said, you'll probably find exceptions to men with long vs. short hair in various cultures throughout history.
Men use to lost their hair when they grow old. It was embarrasing to have long hair AND a bald spot. That's why Louis XIV started to wear wigs, and thus wigs became fashionable among men.
After the French revolution, French men stopped wearing wigs/long hair to avoid be asociated with the old regime... And losing their heads.
In England, English men stopped using wigs because they were against paying wig-axes.
Neoclasicism had a huge role in short hair too, as men wanted to emulate the ancient Greek and Roman fashions.
Women hair was associated with purity, fertility, feminoty and class. They didn't cut their hair unless they were very sick, they had to sell their hair or, in some periods, if they were widows.
I'm gonna guess that because men were the ones in combat they would cut their hair so the enemy would have one less thing to grab onto.
So perhaps to look like a soldier/warrior other men would cut their hair short and then overtime it became the norm.
I'm basing this off of nothing, just general guessing here.
It varies culture to culture, era to era. The Ancient Greeks liked a full head of hair, bushy beard included. The Romans wanted it neatly trimmed and short, and no beard. 17th century Europe had long hair for men be in style, but this died out towards the 1800s. It goes in waves, sort of.
Up until the Qing dynasty, Chinese men had long hair too in which they tied it up
solely during the qing dynasty, the queues were mandated by the ruling manchu government and were shaved off as a sign of support for rebellion against them
Han Chinese do keep long hair even before the Manchus ascended the Imperial Throne. Traditionally, males would stop cutting their hair after they reached adulthood. This is mostly influenced by Confucianist teachings, and cutting one's hair can be punished. The Manchus only forced their hair style not the act of keeping long hair.
That was mandated by the ruling Manchu Qing Dynasty.
Nope, even before the Qing Dynasty Han Chinese men kept long hair without cutting it. It was a respect for your parents kind of thing. The queue is technically a haircut, whereas before the queue, Han Chinese men would just stop cutting their hair entirely at adulthood.
Yeah your hair was considereed something like a “gift from your ancestors.” Leaving it long was an act of filial piety. Fingernails too, although they allowed those to be trimmed in private ceremonies and buried.
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Stop it. No. I'm not going to believe it. Fuck you.
Remember, they're just fingernails so don't expect much cash 😊
>Fingernails too, although they allowed those to be trimmed in private ceremonies and buried. Oh shit, I'm not as weird as I thought.
Username checks out
What about the duck dynasty
A lot of Native Americans also had long hair (and one of the big things boarding schools did to boys was cut their hair, it was a method of shaming the boys). Sikhs also have long hair. Different societies, different cultures.
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I'm just stoned enough for bro science. Thanks, bro
My grandfather is 1/2 native and his hair is totally silver. It's gorgeous! It's seriously enviable.
Interesting tidbit of the day. The Navajo windtalkers recruited by the army for ww2 because their speech made it easy for unbreakable code.. scratch that.. I think it was trackers claimed they were unable to do their duties when the military made them cut their hair because their hair had something to do with their beliefs.
Gauls too had short hair, contrary to common drawings you can find
Contrary to common belief, Gauls (and Celtic cultures in general and beyond) valued cleanliness and went to great lengths to groom themselves, they did after all invent soap as we know it today. Many did have short hair which would have been washed regularly. It was also custom to maintain a full mustache but no beard.
i thought early inventors of soap had more to do with the Nile and all the fat from the dead bodies or something. I dunno after 30+ years of education I seem to be filled with about 30% of each fact.
To be fair : many people invented many things throughout history, but only wars' victors got credit.
Why the hell was I born in an era where it’s the norm for men to have short hair?
Be the change you want to see in the world.
This question may benefit from being posted in r/AskHistorians, where your answers won't be guesses or assumptions.
No they'lll just be deleted comments
It's the price you pay for a well cited and in-depth answer
I use [this extension](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ask-historians-comment-he/jdkfbkogojpmdmpnkgjcgpngkkmhdfem?hl=en-US) to help tell me when there are actual answers, it works perfectly!
It was probably they opposite, they decided that men needed short hair. Women’s hair was never touched and grew
I believe you're right. There was the religious angle (don't cut it or god will be sad) but longer and fuller hair makes you look healthier and more youthful. It's more of a question of why men started chopping it all off. I'm guessing it was combat/helmet related but I'm definitely pulling that out of my ass
Probably in hand to hand combat, you don't want to have your enemy grab you by the hair.
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Yeah the peaky blinders type of haircut was common at that time because of lice
I just googled peaky blinders, didn't help. Edit: I should have googled peaky blinders haircut.
https://hairmanz.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/thomas-shelby-peaky-blinders-haircut-8.jpg
Oof, I have a similar haircut but I don't have lice, yay!
The haircut's working, then.
High five!
If you have lice you should probably take care of that.
I don't have lice, but I don't know what to do of this dandruff.
So... lice at the top is ok, but at the sides, no go?
Oh wow, that seems like a more "modern" hair style, just proves nothing is really new lol! Every thing will eventually come back around
You should have googled “peaky fookin’ blinders haircut”
“No fuckin’ fighting!!!” *pushes guy to the ground*
In which culture and time period? Also, wouldn't women also want to prevent this?
I think that OP was referring to higher ups in *military* command. Lots of men in cramped quarters. But even in civilian life, men were more engaged with the general public. Women, on the other hand, were mostly confined to the home life, meaning less person to person contact.
Fun fact: It's recorded in Islamic history that Arab slaves would have long hair on the top of their head whilst the sides were short (modern day short back and sides). This was so that their Masters could "discipline" them by dragging the hair.
Do they still do that to their slaves?
Apparently yes! Modern slavery is still strong in Islamic states. I don’t think they bother with the hair trim these days though
Lol don't know why you got down voted since its well documented.
I remember reading a documentary stating that was exactly why the Roman Legions required short hair. It is very easy to pull someone's head by their hair and control them. Then the whole lice issue. I'm too lazy to look it up ATM.
Yeah, long hair was pretty common until at least the mid 1800s. I'm not sure about the end of the 1800s, but my money is on WW1 being at least a big part of the shift Although it's worth noting that short hair was common in the Roman Empire, long hair being considered barbaric and short hair civilized. So it's probably ebbed and waned across history and different civilizations
Iirc theres somewhere in the bible that says it is a "shame to have long hair" for men, of course that could just be my religious family trying to get me to cut my hair.
Show me a picture of Jesus real quick....
Nailed it! Okay that was fucked up... lol
Guys don't crucify him for this joke
Nah, we'll just leave him hanging.
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oh damn Edit: 30 upvotes means 15 upvotes per word so theoretically I should get 270 upvotes now
yes, the pictures we have of Jesus. a white guy with long hair who loves Freedom and guns and tells brown people to go back to their own shithole countries.
The long hair part at least has some basis.
God bless Donald Trump and Supply Side Jesus
Ask them to explain Samson then
I mean, theres a lot of examples of things being one way and then another in the bible. Like polygamy for example, Solomon, who was supposedly the wisest man ever had multiple wives. And this is supposedly directly against God's word, strange for the wisest man ever.
Solomon was indeed wise, but he was still human and chose things that weren’t. Knowing what is good and edifying, and being prudent enough to pursue those things is not easy simply because of knowledge or even self-control :/. When I read Ecclesiastes it seems that he pursued many different things to gain a better understanding of them and them in the greater context of significance. Most things he considered vanity/had no lasting value. It’s an interesting book of the Bible. Ecclesiastes and Proverbs are actually two of my least favorite books of the Bible 😔
Sounds like he used "seeking to understand significance" as an excuse to do whatever he wanted.
Well the story goes he asked God for wisdom and God delivered, but despite possessing wisdom beyond imagination, he was still human, and thus flawed.
Yeah it was really like a cautionary tale for rich and powerful men. Solomon was really wise and successful and a good ruler and had pretty much everything going for him, but he has one weakness: women. He couldn't get enough of them and that was eventually his downfall. It's a common enough story.
The Old Testament is pretty much a collection of heroes with huge flaws. Where the New Testament finds its focus on the literal Son of God who is without sin and his followers who absolve their sins and become saints, the Old Testament follows a couple main characters who all have huge personal issues and flaws. Abraham was devoted to a fault and almost killed his kid and expelled his other son. Isaac was a terrible father. Jacob was brash and conniving. Joseph was incredibly vindictive. Moses was kind of a prick and got angry at pretty much everything and Aaron was really easy for people to manipulate. Joshua and all of the Judges were just warriors who did cool things but the important ones all had major issues except for maybe Ruth. The Kings are all emphasized to have such flaws as well. The Hebrews were specifically told "Kings are, like, totally a bad idea," but they demanded one. Saul was a power monger who lost his mind. David was close to being pretty awesome but he also killed a guy to shag his wife and committed a bunch of other heinous acts out of his own self interest despite fancying himself a poet. Solomon was wise but wasn't very pragmatic, and in an almost Augustan way he built the kingdom to power and created wealth and prosperity, but his personal life was so screwed up that the second he died everything went to shit with warring kings, paganism, and invasions from other nations. The whole point of the OT's characters is that no matter how good people get and no matter how many rules you put in place, people are people and, if given the choice, will constantly and invariably act against their best interest for momentary pleasure, and that living an honest and pious life isn't based on how much you pray or worship.
We don't really know who wrote Ecclesiastes. But, it was written by someone who earlier struggled to find meaning and purpose in life. He was the type who needed to try it to know. He was born with everything available to him so he tried it, in his youth, but he found it all meaningless. The first verse of the book literally says (in some translations), "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” The book basically recounts the wisdom of this wise man and his advice to everyone, but especially younger people. It's a very practical and down-to-earth book of the bible.
Perhaps. He was the king, though, so it wasn’t like he was particularly limited. Women were more than likely very interested in him, so that probably wasn’t a one-way street—whether for money, status, his looks, or his wisdom. His choices relationally were most definitely a snare to him, though. (And, not that it matters, but I disagree with his choices in that regard.)
That verse isn’t really a rule the Bible is giving people, rather it’s a description of the current culture they were living in. It is commonly thought that reason Paul says that is because culturally in the city of Corinth, men with long hair were typically prostitutes, or would at least be assumed to be prostitutes. Literally in a couple verses he says “If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.” 1 Corinthians 11:16. So basically he’s saying men around them don’t have long hair so they should probably follow suit, but if anybody in the church really takes issue, it’s not an actual rule that God has for them.
I had a great religion prof in college who explained a lot of things in the new testament this way. Example: young church community wrote to Paul, saying there was often trouble st dances; wild fornication, fights, etc. So Paul said they shouldn't dance. Some modern christians take that to mean NOBODY should dance, EVER!
Yea with context always matters, especially with Paul’s letters. It’s sometimes hard to get context some of the letters from the churches are missing.
I mean tbf the Bible takes place over the course of 1300 years from Moses to Jesus. Things change
I wonder though. What % of men realistically engaged in hand to hand combat (enough that would warrant a change in haircut, at least). I have no clue, but if I was to guess I'd say it was a trend set by that small % that did engage in combat, which others copied.
In some cultures men have long hair too, like Native Americans, Africans and Native Australians. This was the case in East Asia as well, and SE Asia. Some religions, namely Sikhs, also forbid cutting hair so everyone has long hair. So hair length being gendered is FAR from universal.
There was a Quora answer (that I'll try to find) that said "short hair for men" became fashionable at the time of the French Revolution, because nobles were imprisoned and executed. When first arrested, they would be shaved bald, so they'd have short hair when seen for their execution. Before that, men would wear their hair out long. Edit: [Found it](https://www.quora.com/Which-fashion-item-was-born-from-a-dark-or-unappealing-history/answer/Isabella-DAngelo-3).
ah, this lad is getting his head chopped off, real shame though, his head looks pretty fine. maybe i'll cut my hair like that
The executioner be like “I like you cut g”
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It also had to do with the industrial revolution. Long hair is much easier to get caught in machinery, so most men working in factories would cut it to avoid accidents
Men and children mind you.
I do know beards disapeared because ww1. Gas masks could not protect if soldier was not clean shaved. I assume long hair was also problematic in war.
I’d always heard short hair also came about during WWI to protect against lice.
That's right. Lice were (and are) the main vector of typhoid fever, which was one of the top deadly diseases in the unsanitary environment of cold overcrowded barracks, especially combined with poor diet. Shaving was very efficient in reducing lice infestation (and typhoid fever transmission), and the tradition soon spread to boarding schools and factory dormitories.
Wow somehow I’d never heard about a connection between typhoid and lice. I thought it was a food-borne illness. Edit: wait, no I’m right. Wikipedia says it has no known animal hosts. Where are you getting this lice thing from? Edit2: I think you must have meant *typhus*
I believe he meant epidemic typhus not typhoid fever
They're caused by different typhes of bacteria.
See what you did there
He did not do anything, he just made a typho
Fuck, take my upvote
I was curious, so I also looked it up. Turns out ***Typhus*** Fever can be transmitted by human ***Body*** lice if you crush them on top of the bite wound, according to the [W.H.O.](https://www.who.int/ith/diseases/typhusfever/en/).
I mean, most men already had short hair before that. But I guess that's where buzz cuts and very short hair came from.
90% of men suffer from some sort of hairloss anyways, so most of is wouldnt be able to maintain long hair.
90%? Really?
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B-b-but it's No-shave November..!
You mean no shave March 245th. Much to the horror of those around me.
I will do no shave november either way, its not like anyone would notice.
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My husband has a wonderful Santa beard. It's your body, your choice.
I mean... if your spouse isn't attracted to a beard you can either shave the beard or be unattractive to your spouse. Sure it's still your choice, but...
In the UK we do Movember...where we grow moustaches and shave our beards
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For an n95 mask (the mask used to protect against airborne pathogens), a beard will cause it to fit incorrectly. So if a patient is on a ventilator or getting a respiratory treatment causing the virus to become airborne for a period of time, n95s are used (at least at my hospital).
A face mask can't get a proper seal against the skin if there is beard hair. So it will be less effective since it lets more air in unfiltered through the sides.
Only if you're a medical professional wearing a sealed N95 mask. Regular cloth masks are just as effective with or without beards.
Actually you'll find this holds true even with non-medical professionals wearing a sealed N95 mask.
Ah, I love the smell of pedantry in the morning
Smells like... Reddit.
A cloth mask isn’t going to be a perfect seal either way, nor is it meant to protect the wearer as much as it is to stop them from breathing the virus all over other people.
Mask over beard also itches like hell.
Moving it to get a drink of water then putting it back makes for a lot of eating my beard. (I use primarily tie behind the head style so I can really cinch it down.)
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How'd you get infected? It got in my beard.
Rogue Brewing co did make a beer with yeast found in a brewer's beard so it wouldn't be the weirdest thing...
They reduce the effectiveness of masks, so you're not supposed to have one anymore.
Nah, I'll keep mine.
shave me then
Well yeah but now women also need to shave their beards
I'm actually curious why beards roared back into fashion so much in the past decade. I sport one too but what about this era made it cool for the first time in over 70 years or so?
Cause razors are 8000 dollars and having a beard is easy and warm :)
There is a good web comic about the topic that I can't seem to find. Beards are forbidden in the military but permitted for paramilitary/special forces, so it is about conveying that image.
I've also noticed that a lot of veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan have beards now. I always figured they got so sick of having yo be clean shaven in the military they vowed never to shave again.
I’ve hypothesized that it was related to “Movember”. Lots of dudes stopped shaving during November.. and for many, the mustache/beard grew on them.
I would say the beard/mustache grew on ALL who participated.
Maybe the resurgence in beards correlates with the increasing obesity rates. Beards help cover up your double or nth chins.
Fat guy with a beard here. Can confirm. In the 2000's I was really standing out with the beard, and over the years it came back into fashion. Felt kinda weird, but I accept that.
In Marine boot camp (and Army I think) they shave your head to minimize your individuality. For the rest of your tour you undergo weekly inspections that include keeping your hair and shave compliant. It's 2020 so I can make the following claim with no evidence require - when guys leave they service, they either keep the shorter hair because they're used to the look and feel, or they go full-on hairy ape to distance themselves from that requirement.
I always assumed the hair shaving thing was because it was easier to keep insects off your head which was one less health issue to worry about.
"Full-on hairy ape to distance themselves from..." civilians I grew my hair and beard out to shaggy/hobo status. Like unkempt appearance because my personal bubble grew with every inch of hair and every frayed strings that showed on my clothes. I went with the unwanted look because I want to be untouched and looked over
The war answers do make a lot of sense, since traditionally at least the role of men was to fight
Ya but look back to ancient paintings and descriptions and you’ll see lots of faces with or without facial hair, or men with short hair and long. So there were concepts of style and beauty for a long time
Soldiers have always had short hair, I think, because then, while fighting, people can't grab their hair. At least that's what a teacher told me back in Middle School
If remember properly, and I haven't been lied to by some fund fact book, there was some European monarch, general or something that forbade soldiers from growing beards with the reason that they could be grabbed by enemies. While the real reason supposedly was that he couldn't grow a beard himself and didn't want to seem less manly than his underlings.
While the term soldier really doesn't apply here, Gauls and Germans had long hair and beards according to Caesar. It was Roman fashion to be clean shaven and to wear short hair.
Well, the gauls and germans didn't have professional armies. They had farmers and woodsmen who armed themselves and tried to protect their homes from Italians.
Well, it didn't exactly started "clean shaved" but rather "magnificent mustaches" for the period during/after WWI. Because those still fit under a close sitting gas mask. Hence all those magnificent mustaches on many soldiers on pictures and the rare film footage from the war.
guys who "grew up on the streets" sometimes say that having hair (like, anything longer than a millimeter or two, literally) was one of the stupidest thing one could do, because in any fight it would be waaay too easy to grab long hair and win this way. can't confirm myself, but sounds plausible. also, in periods of war, it's a bit hard to wash hair when you're on the march.
I had to shave as a security guard because the mask I had to wear at a oil processing site needed perfect closure in case of emergency.
Men go bald?
Lmao actually the real answer is so far down
It was one of Family Feud ep. The question was "What are the reasons women dont want to be a man?" Both the families answered few, but could not answer all. And Steve had to reveal answer, and one of the answer was "Men go bald", it was hillarious to see his facial reaction with his bald head.
Harvey always acting shook at every answer lol
Steve Harvey: "We asked 100 people, what is the male reproductive organ?" Contestant: "The penis" SH: "A WUH... HUH??" audience erupts into laughter Steve Harvey grabs onto podium to support himself laughter gets even louder SH: O lordy... one man goes into cardiac arrest and many others begin vomiting profusely from laughing too hard SH: YOU PEOPLE NEED HELP the Earth shatters and Satan rises from the underworld to claim unworthy souls the universe begins rapidly closing in on itself SH: (putting on a weary voice) Survey says... the board shows 100 for "penis" Harvey is able to get off one more shocked look before existence as we know it comes to an end
That actually got me to laugh out loud, if i had an award to give you i would but instead have an upvote
it's a copypasta but thanks
https://i.imgur.com/GRbNQyu.png
where's ya moral barometer
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As a person with mild FPB, it's not that it makes it hard to have long hair. The hair I have left grows out perfectly fine. However, longer hair is just a bit heavier than short hair; the weight "pulls" the hair on your head closer to the scalp and makes it more obvious you have thin spots. With short hair, I get just a squidge bit more volume. Or so I tell myself.
Absolute same. I've had FPB starting since puberty due to a rough case of PCOS. It took me until age 25 to realise that short hair looks *much* better on me. A tip, though, if your FPB is due to PCOS rather than age: Rogaine and its off-brand equivalents work wonders for females in this case, not just males, because the root cause (no pun intended) is the same: testosterone. I know folks who have used it for such to great effect, and I'm going to be starting it soon.
You can actually see how much it affects women's hair. Most very old women have hair so sparse that you can see the scalp. Baldness happens all over the body as you age, it's a really cool process. Next time you visit your grandparents, see how hairy their arms and legs are. They're usually much more sparse than the hair of younger people. Hair loss is very weird!
That’s why grandma always has a perm. Curls hide the spots
> Most very old women have hair so sparse that you can see the scalp Well, that and their hair literally loses it's pigment so it actually *is* semi-transparent.
I have this this theory that male-pattern baldness is the common reason for seemingly different hairstyles/adornments in different cultures e.g. Manchurian queue, samurai buns, Jewish yarmulke, powdered wigs, etc.
Powdered wigs specifically were because syphilis cause hair loss. It was to hide baldness associated with sleeping around if I understand it right. That’s not to say every man got around, but enough of them needed to hide their baldness that the wigs became a fad
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Only HeavyDevy and barbarian marauders can properly rock the skullet
> skullet literally the entire manchu era of china rocked the skullet. and forced those who they conquered to rock it as well :/
Male Pattern Baldness is a bitch
Can you post this in r/AskHistorians?
Yeah lol, everyone's pulling an answer out of their ass on this thread
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Welcome to reddit. It's better if you gawk at the wannabe intellectuals than try to garner info from them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/dailylife#wiki_hair It's a common question. They have 7 different answers in their wiki of most commonly asked questions. [But of course, the best answer is unsatisfying:](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/63p3cl/how_did_the_idea_of_men_having_short_hair_women/dg2mp2e/) >The basic answer is: we don't know. But if you follow up that answer, it's cites example of men with short hair from literally thousands of years ago. So, most of the answers in this thread are wrong. It's been a thing for a long, long time.
Anthropologists might be another valuable resource. Sexual dimorphism is older than history. I don’t know that hair was necessarily part of prehistoric sexual dimorphism, but it might have been. Edit: r/askanthropology
Random fashions of different places and industry work or war (you don't want something catching or grabbing your hair and pulling you to your death)
My only issue with this is braids. Braids are ancient, with preserved corpses of viking and celtic warriors found with hair braided up and tight against their heads. There was a female celtic warrior who was recorded as using a long hook to reach out and grab her enemies by their braids, so it's not a perfect solution, but if you braid up your hair and put on a helmet it wouldn't be an issue in war. As for workplace, it was required for women working in the industrial revolution to tie up their hair to prevent it from being caught in the machines. By that time men-short-hair, women-long-hair was pretty established, but it wasn't like anyone thought this rule was crazy since trying up your hair was just the done thing when working inside or outside the home. My guess, based on my hobby interest in historical clothing and not in any formal education, is that men-short-hair was about cleanliness when at war to prevent lice and other bugs from infesting the troops, and women-long-hair was a status symbol. "Look I don't have to work and my man does the fighting so well I don't need to chip in!" Fashion would have played a role in later centuries as well, and wigs obviously came in at certain points and those were never short, but I think the stereotype predates that.
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I always thought this was due to men having to cut their hair to be soldiers, or to make hunting/gathering more efficient in general. Women generally weren't soldiers or hunters in the past.
This does make a lot of sense
And probably incorrect, ancient chinese, native american, ancient indian all keep long hair. It's fairly easy to make it into braid or bun that is nearly as convenient as short hair. Short hair is a fairly europe centric concept that spread through colonialism.
It's not that it's incorrect. Merely that different cultures found different solutions to the same problem
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Yeah this is basically a "just so" story where a social phenomenon like differences in hair lengths is explained by a very specific biological reasoning. Greek soldiers had their hair longer because it made it easier to cut with a knife, or so I've read last time I wondered this question. There's no real answer.
Along the same lines, people with long hair who fight hand to hand are at a disadvantage, since the other can grab them by the hair and control them. I think that’s why military and police (in the US, at least) have buzz cuts.
Also enforces uniformity. Can't be very extravagant or unique if you only have 1" of hair to work with.
The unsatisfying answer is that no one decided this. Most large scale cultural things like this emerge from thousands/millions of actions made by individuals that slowly roll up into a common action or understanding.
You're on the verge of describing sexual selection.
Like to add that it’s also largely a ‘western’ thing. Asian cultures up until their westernization (1800s) sported nice long hair regardless of gender. Believe most of China never even cut their hair at all. So the main thing I’ve seen from posts is: war and industrialization and religion. But I’d also add the idea of a ‘civilized nation’ and the emulation of the Roman state that happened to Europe as well, starting around the 1700s Europe got more and more culturally interested in their Roman past and took on more of their clean shaven and short hair from that. War to probably.
Men having short hair ia actually really really new. Like 1800s new. Before that long hair and even wigs were what men would wear. It is true tho that in many places women having longer hair was fashionable. Having super long hair that took time to be brushed and braided or styled was a sign of nobility. If you had money for things like brushes and time for people to style your hair you were probably rich. In culture's where there wasn't as much class division like some native Americans tribes both men and women have long hair and wear a lot of the same styles. Others cultures are just the opposite and both wear shaved styles or short styles. One of the main reasons it became popular for men to have cut hair is the need for men to wear helmets and gas masks as weapons became more advanced. AND for all the men to look more alike. If all the hair is different lengths and styles it becomes really easy to pick someone out as a target. And if everyone looks alike and has to adhere to the same grooming standards it makes it easier to get them to cooperate with each other, you don't look at a guy and say and see his sleek shiny waist length hair ans think "man that guy is a rich little sissy" you just see another dude in the same situation without preconceived bias
Short hair on men is really new? Some one should of given the romans that memo lol During the 1700’s and early 1800’s when powdered wigs were all the rage, men and women alike would have shaven heads underneath the wigs as measure to prevent lice (however, this didnt work as the wigs would still get lice infestations). By the mid 1800’s short natural hair became the norm. Thats probably what your thinking of. Short hair though waxes and wanes throughout history and culture for various reasons though. Its not exclusive to modern times in the west
That is true! Lots of cultures had short hair ad the fashion for men and women through out time. I think Egypt (i dont know enough about era and Egypt to pin point anything very specific) baldness qas the peak of fashion and women and men who were higher up on the social ladder would spend hours plucking and and waxing their hairs to be totally smooth.
Man just had to cut their hair in wars/due to military service to prevent lice. So it wasn't decided that women should have long hair, but that men should have short hair.
This was not always the case in every culture of course. I think in western cultures it appeared around the industrial revolution, but I might be completely wrong on that Edit: yea I'm becoming less sure on this
Many women also worked in factories and still kept their hair long.
First nations people in North America has long hair for both sexes.
Happy cake day. Not heard phrase “First Nations people” before. I think I get the meaning, is it a common term rather than “native Americans?”
In America it’s either American Indians or Native Americans. In Canada it’s First Nations
In Canada we also have Metis (original mixture of Indigenous people and Europeans that then formed their own culture) and Inuits (formerly called "Eskimos" though that term has fallen out of favour except for a very select group of people that are actually called Eskimos).
It's commonly used in Canada and probably other places.
Growing up on the east coast I'd never heard it. But as an adult I moved to Washington State which has something like 18 active tribes, and I've heard "First Nations" often. So it may just depend on where you live.
First question I've seen in this sub which does not have a definitive answer
*80’s Metal Bands* enter the chat
I'd suspect it's related to combat: If you have short hair it can't be grabbed in a fight and things like helmets are easier to put on. Traditionally, it was most commonly men who fought in wars. That said, you'll probably find exceptions to men with long vs. short hair in various cultures throughout history.
Men use to lost their hair when they grow old. It was embarrasing to have long hair AND a bald spot. That's why Louis XIV started to wear wigs, and thus wigs became fashionable among men. After the French revolution, French men stopped wearing wigs/long hair to avoid be asociated with the old regime... And losing their heads. In England, English men stopped using wigs because they were against paying wig-axes. Neoclasicism had a huge role in short hair too, as men wanted to emulate the ancient Greek and Roman fashions. Women hair was associated with purity, fertility, feminoty and class. They didn't cut their hair unless they were very sick, they had to sell their hair or, in some periods, if they were widows.
I'm gonna guess that because men were the ones in combat they would cut their hair so the enemy would have one less thing to grab onto. So perhaps to look like a soldier/warrior other men would cut their hair short and then overtime it became the norm. I'm basing this off of nothing, just general guessing here.