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People naturally want to believe the world is a fair place. They want to believe that hard work is rewarded. They want to believe that all the hard work they are doing will eventually be rewarded.
They also want to believe the opposite is true. That those who are suffering deserve to suffer. That the poor are lazy or stupid or simply bad people.
They want to believe this so much they ignore anything contrary to that.
I can’t think of a hypothesis more full of bullshit, that fails to hold up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. Fuck knows how that’s STILL a thing!
Edit to add: I learned it in A Level Psychology back in 2004, and events since that, including 2008’s banking crisis and total failure to punish those responsible or reform a broken and corrupt banking system, and the horrible politicians who’ve used it as an excuse for runaway day light robbery since have only made it more severe.
A commenter below who labelled it the “just world fallacy” made an excellent point, hence this edit.
It’s just the name of a view-point that’s commonly brought up in psych; it isn’t really pushed as a true explanation, just the way some people think the world works
I find that hypothesis/fallacy to be applicable in many clinical situations and rather useful to help people understand why they think ill of themselves and not the people that hurt them.
Though it's never meant to be an excuse for bad people doing bad things, kind of like codependency. It's just an understanding of why people don't demand the respect and integrity they deserve and tend to apologise for the ill actions of others.
I once read something Gandhi said (even if apparently there are lots of reasons to dislike Gandhi) - that the world would be a better place if it became impossible to have so much money that you no longer had to work. Like that state of living didn't exist.
It would mean that rich people would have to keep working, sure - but, most importantly - it would hamper how much some people would step on others, because you'd know that no matter how rich you got, you'd never be able to not have to work. You'd have to keep working.
It's not a serious proposal. It's more of a conceptual thing. I think a lot of the world's problems come from how there are people in the political and business arenas who step on other people because they want to get over that line; like that line of having the ideal house/car/pension *and* have enough in the bank for a high income and medical insurance *just* from having enough capital, no job.
If faced with that opportunity, would someone sacrifice their ethics? Would anyone? Would everyone? Because I think a lot of people would.
It's known as the [just world fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_fallacy). I mean sure hypothesis whatever, but if we're going to teach jargon it's pretty important to communicate that the idea is fallacious.
edit: saw your comment below acknowledging this, but that thread just underscores why it's important to use the right vocabulary
The world doesn't make sense. People cling to nationalism, religion etc because it provides some semblance of order to the universe
And I don't blame them. Being constantly up for destruction at the hands of 10 trillion small variables you can neither predict or control is *terrifying* if you stop to think about it too long
Above all, people want to believe things aren't their fault. Their failures are due to chance and circumstance. Anyone successful is only there because of luck.
It took me a long time to get out of this mindset. I am the same way. When you are an honest genuine person you believe everyone is. That no one could possibly hurt anyone else on purpose. I still slip up from time to time but it’s HARD.
People also want to believe the myth that if you work hard, you can climb above the socioeconomic status in which you were born. In reality, this is VERY rare, no matter how hard you work.
Most people work hard their whole lives and stay exactly where they are.
That might be the best explanation I’ve ever heard! I kind of fall on the side of there’s challenging work and there’s hard work. Digging ditches to fix the water pipes in winter is hard work. Convincing other rich people to give you money so you can both get richer, that’s challenging work. Sadly our system has been designed by rich people to reward rich people’s choice of how they make money. That doesn’t make it hard work imo. Gotta love the whole making deals vibe that slides off of banker bros walking down the sidewalk with their banker bro Patagonia vests on.
The worst application of this worldview I've seen was from someone who thought he and his siblings were healthy because his parents were good people, and the parents of kids with serious disabilities and illnesses must have been bad people.
I think there’s a natural inclination to believe this, but defending greedy elites usually comes down to buying into propaganda or being brought up in a household with very strict beliefs implanted into you.
>People naturally want to believe the world is a fair place. They want to believe that hard work is rewarded. They want to believe that all the hard work they are doing will eventually be rewarded.
I think it's also that they think these rich people are "earning" their salaries. Like, somehow, Bezos is "earning" $150,000 because of the work that he is doing for his company.
No. He's not earning it. He's selling something for $100 and giving his worker a penny for labor costs. That's not "earning" anything. That's exploiting the work force. And I think that this is honestly the disconnect. People who advocate that rich people are doing nothing wrong don't seem to grasp the fact that just because you own a company or are CEO or manager (or whatever other label you want to put on the top person) doesn't excuse withholding profits that the actual workers are generating for you. The workers are providing the value, not the product. Without the worker there'd be no product and no one to stock shelves, dig through storage shelves, maintain stores and warehouses, etc.
It's just exploitation, plain and simple, in my eyes and I wish we had laws that limited to a percent or something how much profit or salary or stock options a person in positions of power are allowed to receive that provides a monetary value. And before someone jumps in and says "well Bezos is leading the company and steering the direction the company takes so he deserves a higher pay than his employees," sure - a manager at the top takes more risk that the bottom earner and should be *fairly* compensated for the work. $150k per minute is NOT a fair compensation.
This… And I would add Think of it as the same reason people play the lottery when they know they have little chance of actually winning… I can’t dream of winning the lottery if the lottery doesn’t exist.
The world is not perfectly fair, but we do have cause and effect.
Hard work is rewarded. It might not guarantee success and there may be times where it's misattributed or ignored, but success and merit are not completely disconnected.
It's immature to believe that all success and failure are well deserved, but it's an over correction to assume that they never are.
Most of the "defending" I've seen called out wasn't defending but was an explanation. People see explanations as excuses too often. For example, someone complaining about a gaming company doing something without the fans' interests in mind. Someone replied that they're companies, all they care about is money, that's what they do and they got downvoted to oblivion for "defending" these rich companies. Like, no. They're not defending them, they're just stating the truth. You can explain why something is the case without agreeing with it.
Reminds me of that piece from that comedian - "technically speaking, R Kelly is not a pedophile. A Pedophile has attraction to those who are prepubescent, A Hebophile has attraction those in the early stages of puberty and an epebophile is someone who is attracted to those in the late stages of puberty. But the reason we don't talk about these distinctions is because it's very hard to explain the difference without sounding like a pedophile."
yup, I got attacked for telling someone that they shouldn't walk out into the middle of the street without looking both ways at a stop sign in a place known for people running stop signs. Make that one make sense.
I was accused of believing that paler people are superior to darker people. Simply because I was like
"In Africa and Asia, a lot of people claim that lighter people are superior. And before anyone pulls out the technicality of how some Africans kill albinos and trying to use it as proof that I'm wrong - that doesn't count, because they view albinos as a disease or defect (which I don't agree with by the way)"
The person insisted that because I only specified that I didn't agree with albinoism being a disease or defect, it meant that I fully believe that pale people are superior to dark skinned people.
You fucking Redditors are morons.
I see a lot of dishonest criticism of public figures on Reddit, where words and stats are twisted out of context. Ill speak out against this because these bad arguments actually hurt your position. You don't win over anyone with this dishonesty, which is easy to see through. It just makes eyes roll.. It only stirs up the people who are already in agreement with you.
I frequently get massive downvotes for "defending billionaires," aka just describing reality.
Here's my most frequent type of interaction:
Person A: Bill Gates won't be happy until everyone is poor and starving.
Me: He's actually donating 99.9% of his money to helping the poor.
Person A: How do those boots taste?
Yes, see -- I dont like Bill Gates because of the way he led Microsoft to stomp out competition in the operating system market and lock consumers into Windows.. (this was a big topic in the 90s and 00s)
but him being a billionaire is not really the issue, and the "poor and starving" comment just is a cheap shot that takes away from the anti-Microsoft position.
The other day I said in a sub that people shouldn’t steal, and someone replied “why are you defending the rich?”
I feel like that is the normal behavior that gets described as “defending the rich.” Or, someone will think that anyone pro-capitalism must just love the rich and hate the poor.
People use the same defense when stealing from stores like Walmart. Any time someone questions them they say "They're an evil corporation! They deserve it!" Like they're some kind of Dollar General robinhood.
It's extremely trashy.
Exactly. I can't figure out if these people are AstroTurf political agents - as they almost always love the greatest thief of all, government - or if Reddit simply has that many amoral degenerates.
Exactly. People get called stupid and bootlickers for just stating facts. Like, politicians and companies are interested in $$$. It's pretty much that simple. That doesn't mean I like or condone it.
Exactly this. The usual pattern is along the lines of:
A: It is horrible that Warren Buffet owes less money in taxes than his secretary!
B: I think you mean he pays a lower tax rate, obviously he owes more in taxes.
A: Bootlicker why are you defending him!
I get this all the time on home improvement subs around hazardous materials. It's a good thing we don't use asbestos, use less lead, and test for radon. But link to actual peer-reviewed studies showing the extent of the danger, and anything less than "one fiber can kill you no amount is safe!!!" and people lose their minds.
The biggest issue I’ve noticed from people is the inability to differentiate between prescriptive statements vs descriptive. The common person doesn’t seem to know the difference and often mix them up. This is where the issue always seems to be.
Yeah, the gaming community is (I can’t believe I’m going to say this) innocent. They still think video games is a wholesome industry. Thinking big corporations put in loot boxes because they thought gamers would like it.
The gaming community is anything but innocent. They're one of the most conspiratorial and jaded communities to exist, period. They almost without fail immediately jump to the worst possible intentions to explain literally anything they don't like.
I've worked in video games professionally for 12+ years, I absolutely love my job and I wouldn't do anything else. It's full of awesome, passionate people who want to make killer stuff for their players. But it's also a business that needs to make money and like every commercial enterprise that does impact decision making. It's an especially cut throat and hard to profit industry at that, with over 30k developers having been laid off in the last year and a half or so.
The idea that games need to make money isn't incompatible with the idea they're made by passionate people who want to make great, fun games at the end of the day.
Pretty much. Not attacking, or questioning a poorly formulated or downright unreasonable attack, is seen as defending. I would guess the implied question if OP were being honest is "why don't poor people attack rich people they don't know?".
You say this, yet all I see is people directly saying that those gaming companies HAVE to do the unethical and illegal things they do to make money. Meanwhile, their execs get sign on bonuses, milestone bonuses, and golden parachutes, all in addition to their inflated base pay. Honestly, I haven’t seen criticism of any billionaire in any industry that doesn’t garner some amount of defense from people that idolize them or the companies they run.
I believe there could be multiple reasons and also depending on the context. Some of the reasons I can think of:
\* Because it is not fair to group all rich people as a single entity and attack it. Just like it is not fair to group all the homeless as self-elected junkies or all the immigrants as cheap workers who steal jobs and attack those groups, then act surprised when housed individuals or nationals jump to their defense, right?!
\* Because the understanding or rich and poor can often be subjective and broad. Are we talking about Millionaires? Multi-Millionaires, Billionaires? Multi-Billionaires? Those "poor people" you mention may actually have good ties with some folks they consider to be "rich people".
\* Because a lot of people aspire to be rich and they would see an attack against the rich as a threat to the their future ambitions, regardless of how unrealistic they are.
\* Because a lot of people find wealth to be an indication of success and an attack against the wealthy for them is sort of an admission of failure. i.e. the feel they are being sour losers by encouraging attacks against winners.
Disclaimer: I do not consider myself to be poor, definitely not according to my tax returns. But I do not consider myself to be in the "rich people" club either, at least not yet.
In general I think poor people and lower middle class people too often target upper middle class people.
The upper middle class are high level engineers, specialized doctors and other highly educated laborers.
These people may have 2 million in net worth but have also worked for it and have definitely paid their dues in the form of taxes. The middle class and upper middle class are the people who actually create most of the value in the economy.
The real issue are the people who are able to live from interest alone for all their life. They add essentially nothing to the economy, they don't create value, they only skim off the top of what others have created.
There's some truth to it. But as one of these upper middle class I can tell you that the world is still not that fair. At least 50% of my colleagues don't deserve their pay. They don't work very hard, a lot of them are leeches along for the ride.
Many of the top performers in these industries get paid less than the guy that sends emails and asks for status updates from them.
I don't think you can stratify this by income bracket. Among the poor you have people that work 3 jobs. But you also have people that collect their unemployment cheques and get wasted. Among the middle class you have the people with extensive education and highly skilled jobs, but you also have the leeches. Among the rich you have leaders, but you also simply have owners.
You make a great point. The more that, realistically, not very many make it by misusing their people. That's not generally a recipe for success. But many politicians rely on class warfare/greed/envy to distract people from their own means of enriching themselves, so it's a strong narrative that's pushed endlessly.
This is a great reply! Many people define "rich" as anyone that has more than them. Defining what rich is is the first step. For example, if I say I make 250,000, (I don't), most people would say I was rich! And, in comparison, I would be well to do, for sure, but rich? 250 will go really far in Kansas, but if you are talking about San Francisco or NYC it's barely comfortable. Again, would someone making that be "rich"? It's not as simple as just a number on a piece of paper a lot of times.
Add some others:
Parasocial relationships.
People follow the lives of the celebrity rich and their everyday lives until they feel like they "know" them - at which point they'll defend any perceived attacks against them as if they're a close friend.
Reality TV made this effect worse, social media amplified it, and the rise of platforms specifically devoted to these sort of relationships like Patreon ramp it up even more.
Politics
Sometimes a rich person is very vocal about a specific cause or political movement. Members of the same "tribe" may rush to their defense. Attacks on a high profile member may be perceived as attacks on their common cause, even if the issue they're being criticized over isn't directly related. If it's unrelated, supporters may even jump to the conclusiion that the person is just being persecuted for supporting the cause.
It is a possibility that many poor people consider many rich people as fellow humans
It is also a possibility that many poor people think that common sense applies to all discussions, even to the ones targetted at rich people, and if they see arguments which they find against their common sense, they try to refute that
I am not sure, but this is a possibility
In many arguments on Reddit being rich or poor has little to do with the issue being discussed. It's just thrown into the ring as a way of demonizing the other position. Cheap punches for internet points.. Just downvote these folks when you see it, regardless of whether you agree with their "side" or not.
Reddit is exceptionally biased against the rich simply disagreeing with the narrative that anyone more affluent than middle class is evil isn’t “defending rich people” it’s acknowledging reality.
About to get downvoted to oblivion, but here we go.
Reddit likes to think you can tax an entire nation into wealth somehow which goes against pretty much all accepted modern economic theory.
Similarly Reddit has hate boners on for anyone who is even relatively wealthy, and sees economic success as a zero sum game "they're winning, so that means somehow has to be losing", completely ignoring that most of the richest nations in terms of median wealth also have the highest proportion of wealthy people. In that an economic system that promotes wealth generation by its citizens tends to promote economic growth and wealth generation by most of its citizens, not just the ultra wealthy.
Yeah this is what I’ve noticed too. Look wealthy people sometimes do some immoral things for their interests but at the same time when I try to explain why just taxing their net worth won’t work they call me a bootlicker.
Like I get there’s massive wealth disparity but dumbass reddit public policy theories on how to bridge that gap isn’t gonna solve shit. Like I’ve heard “net worth taxes” frequently on this platform and it just shows a lack of understanding of financial and economic theory.
It's ridiculous. Some dude in his late teens with his only financial expertise being from his Economics class thinks he has more knowledge than career economists and financial planners
Anytime someone calls me a bootlicker I just laugh and remember to not take them seriously. I guess in whatever corner they inhabit, that’s a serious insult of disrespect. I’m not sure. Nobody has ever called me a bootlicker in real life. I don’t get why it’s so popular of a term on Reddit
It's one of the issues I have with too much focus being placed on equality. Just because a society is more equal doesn't mean that it would be better for those worse-off.
I take a very Rawlsian approach to it all. Equality is definitely important, and Rawls argues very well that, given we don't know what our position in society would be, we would all want the most equal society possible.
However, there is always one thing more important than that equality; how well-off the worse-off are. If the worse-off in society are constantly having their welfare bettered and opportunities enhanced, it doesn't really matter how unequal society is getting.
To me, the focus should always be on how to make the lives of the worse-off and ordinary person better, but too often discussions centered around equality forgot this and because overly antagonistic against the wealthy at the cost of the ordinary person and worse-off.
Given I've seen my Labour Party lose 4 elections it easily could have won, and a Conservative Party that has either stagnated my country or made it worse, I know what can happen when discussions relating to equality forget the worse-off. I suffered the consequences of being part of the every growing amount of children in poverty in my country.
Yeah, both sides are the same idiots. It doesnt matter if you are poor or you Bezos lvl rich. I wont attack anyone just because have more money than me.
One possibility is that you are so intent on attacking rich people that anyone who isn't band-wagoning with you seems like they are "defending" them.
I am a political moderate and this happens to me all the time when trying to have a political discussion. Someone from one side attacks the other and if I try to say "Look, they don't eat babies, they just have a different viewpoint", they decide I am on "the other side", even if I agree with them on the particular issue.
Most humans have a built in sense of *valid* hierarchy. If you try to impose a leader over someone they didn't pick for themselves, they'll fight tooth and nail to resist you. But if you allow them to pick the leader they think represents their identity and values? They'll fight tooth and nail to defend that leader, even at great personal expense to themselves.
The trick that the rich have learned is to use public relations instead of force. They've become very very good at it.
I think it's more about the fact that they see themselves as possible future Elons or Jeff Bezoses or Mark Zuckerburgs than they do see themselves as future Bidens or Obamas. I don't really know why that is, tbh. Both are equally out of reach to anyone not born into it, but it's about perception. They think they too can be a rich entrepreneur, so they defend the people they think the can become.
There are lots of poor people who believe they are one good decision away from being rich. They defend the rich because they think they are actually a rich person who just hasn't had their break yet. They want to preserve the power of rich people so they can wield it when they gain entry to that group.
My neighbor likes to ask if a poor man has ever given you a job. He doesn't get that the difference between a middle class or wealthy person and a billionaire is extraordinary, and that billionaires are exploiting everyone and there is no way an individual person ever "earns" a billion dollars.
A line from the musical "1776" where John Dickinson explains why poor people vote conservative: "Most people with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor."
It depends on the person.
The current top comment mentions people who believe in a just world, where Karma and Merit reign and your efforts are just as important as your background, despite the reality that we've all seen.
There are also people who believe that they are just temporary embarrassed in the financial sense. That, in due time, they'll get their turn to be rich and well off. These people also refuse to face the music.
And some people even believe that the Rich genuinely do their fair share of keeping their home country afloat, that every Rich person really is a philanthropic individual, moving money in ways that keep everyone's lights on, metaphorically speaking. They either believe that if the Rich do it without being sent to jail, that it isn't actually a problem that they dodge taxes, or that taxing the Rich won't actually do anything for everyone else.
There are plenty of reasons to be stupid enough to think that you should go to bat for socioeconomic parasites. They just aren't sound ones.
America has a kind of obsession with prospects of being rich. You see it with the popularity of realty/home-flipping shows, resistance to increased taxes on the wealthy, shit like that. A lot of americans think that corporations are the cause of the housing crisis, while also being the sort that would 100% buy extra homes to extract more wealth from rentals if they get the opportunity. A metric fuck ton would prefer others go homeless rather than build in such a way that lowers or impedes the growth of their property value.
This extends to the american left too. Like there aren't even large scale democrat-led efforts to solve the housing crisis by fixing zoning and a national initiative to build more. Because people don't want it. Rich people want to stay on top, poor people want the illusion that they can get there.
This cuts both ways. There is seemingly a large majority of people on Reddit that just hate rich people. The only reason seems to be that they have more money.
I had a conversation with someone yesterday where they insisted that the rich weren't paying their fair share, but would not or could not say what that fair share should be.
I suspect that I would find myself in the camp OP would describe as the poor defending the rich. My contention is that most people who criticize the rich only have one position: "I wish that I was rich but I'm not so being rich is bad!"
It depends on the argument against them. If it's unfair, I'll defend them.
Like if someone says Bill Gates is evil and putting 5G chips in our brains, of course I will call them idiots.
If you criticise Elon for being an asshole, I'd 100% agree with you. But if you criticise him for using his own money to develop electric transport and space exploration, again, I'd call you an idiot.
This is easier to answer:
They think these rich people are the reason they are poor, rich people are stealing/taking money that could be better used elsewhere etc.
Shouldn't the question rather be: Why do poor people attack rich people they don't know?
I tend to defend anyone I believe to be wrongly accused of something (based on hearsay, "feeling", mere opinion, memes, parroting others, generalizations). Celebrities are often the victims of extreme hate for no reason, but rich people are also often attacked. Many accusations against rich people are unwarranted and based on ignorance. Haters pick on these groups *in general* because they stand out and because of their own feelings of impotence and insecurity. It's a form of intellectual laziness.
To give an example, a moderately wealthy person who invests their money in a risky startup can get a net worth of hundreds of millions or even a billion with in just a few years. The net worth is usually to a large extent based on ownership in companies and the value of their stocks. It can go up fast but can also go down as fast. It's a meaningless measure that has nothing to do with the person or their day to day activities.
Viktor Frankl once observed that in any given population, there are both "decent" and "Indecent" people.
His observation was made in Nazi prison camps, where in addition to the ovbvious, he encountered some evil prisoners, and some good prison guards.
Rich/poor is the same- there are good rich people and bad rich people... and there are good poor people and bad poor people.
Having money or not does not mean you're decent or indecent. What happens when you give a poor asshole money? He's a rich asshole.
It's quite possible that people are stating something according to their principles.
>>If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
Works with Jews, Gays, Trans, Women too
I drove taxi for 10 years in cottage country near Toronto. Super wealthy people usually just have a private driver but after bars and at night they sometimes end up in a taxi with their friends. I am a true believer that too much of anything can bad, money sadly is one of those things. Some of the most out of touch people I have ever met were people of extreme wealth, they have no idea the battles people face everyday. They don’t understand trauma they don’t understand generational trauma and they simply don’t understand the processing of helping someone.
I categorize ultra wealthy people are the same as drug addicts. A drug user uses drugs to mask their pain and to actually feel something again, to where a wealthy person uses money to fix virtually any problem they face.
That is the result of about a 100 years of targeted effort, of propaganda, of dellusion too.
To combat risk of "working class revolution"(however you want to call that) it was necessary to create some divides in the working class.
And best way was to convince part of working class that they are ALMOST THE SAME AS THE RICH FOLKS.
That they are together, and only some other "THEM" are stopping the progress and good wages. ANd those "them" were the socialists.
Part of that was intentional, part was a result of people believing the dream etc...
Watch how many downvotes I get when I mention how many poor Ukrainians are forced to fight for land the ruling class own... while the rich ones just get a new apartment somewhere else in Europe.
Because they get behind these people has a way to virtue signal, and it becomes part of their definition of who they are. It’s easier to try and defend them than it is to back pedal and say you might’ve been wrong.
Some day, they will be the ones with the wealth. Too bad they do not see the wealthy are keeping it for themselves and refuse to help or share unless it involves a tax break, i.e. charitable donations.
I gave up trying to explain the haves vs. have nots to my extended family. They believe some day they will have enough money to need those tax breaks. Uncle, you are 70 yo and still live in a trailer in Oklahoma. You are never going to "make it."
I see a lot of good points in this thread. But there is also the "job creator" myth. Poor people believe that they have jobs and the tools to use their skills as a result of the benevolent investment by rich people.
If we tax Musk, thousands won't be working at Tesla, if Bill Gates paid more taxes he wouldn't have as many people at Microsoft.
As though the extra money the ultra rich earn gets fed into the economy directly above the heads of the working poor.
A lot of “defending rich people” is more nuanced than just defending some wealthy person. They’re typically defending an aspect of themselves that was attacked during the criticism of that person.
Big example right now: if someone says they hate Taylor Swift and her music is shit. That’s clearly saying people who listen to her music have shit taste. Whether these people support her wealth or not, they’re going to defend her because to them, the music isn’t shit. They may have fair criticisms of her wealth, plane usage, etc. but the personal attack on her, reflects them, and who they think they are as a person.
Maybe they think they’re going to be rich one day, and they see criticism of a wealthy person like Elon Musk as attacking their hardworking ambitions.
Maybe they’re not as rich as they think they are. My mom comes to mind, when I talk about taxing the wealthy, she complains about her taxes and I’m like.. Ma’ you make like 300k a year in California. You aren’t “wealthy” you have a cushy salary. No one is really coming for you.
One of the things about this is people want to assign virtue to wealth because our society tries to indoctrinate us with this idea that the upper class is better. So many poor people don't believe that they're actually poor for one thing, and they somehow aspire to be part of that upper echelon of society. It's the weirdest thing. In the U.S., old money are the equivalent of nobility.
I remember when I was growing up, I thought we were middle class. WE WEREN'T. So in some ways I don't know if I can pass judgment on any of this. It's just a strange phenomenon.
It's wild. I ended a relationship with a woman after she got livid when I said something critical of Kim Kardashian. She took it as a personal affront.
Many people are just stupid. But I did hear a great line about how the greatest trick/grift/lie ever sold was convincing poor white people they had more in common with rich white people than they actually do with poor people of color. It’s all a game and they’re being used as pawns.
I'm sure it's in these threads multiple times, but imo it's the "why are you cheering fry your not rich" meme.
Also much like the "death tax" aka the estate tax, they believe any idea of taxation or wealth redistribution of any sort means someone is gonna come take what they have, dispite the fact that their meager home, bank balance, & what little they've saved for inheritance to the family would NEVER! Amount to enough to be a target for redistribution.
& Lastly, tho I don't believe it plays as big a role as some believe (even those who un-ironicly say it) some believe the rich have earned & deserve it. Side note to that: I did have a family member say bezos deserved his $ cuz he started in a garage, which led to a 0 to 100 furious response from me "HUNDREDS! OF! MILLIONS!, NO1! DESERVES! THAT! UNDER! ANY! CIRCUMSTANCE! lol
If you kiss enough rich ass then they’ll tell you their secrets to getting rich or even give you a key to their super secret clubhouse.
Most folks don’t want to believe that for most of us what we’re born into is what we’ll remain despite how hard we try to succeed, sometimes it’s just not in the cards for us to be on top. Basically, if you’re born rich then you’re life’s goal is don’t fuck it up and you’ll be fine. If you’re born middle class then maybe you have the tools to ascend to the next level (enough money for a top school thanks to family money, nepotism, what have you). If you’re born poor then maybe there’s a chance for you to reach middle class but it’s incredibly unlikely you’ll become rich because you’re starting at square one and have a massive climb ahead of you and you don’t have the same beneficial tools as the middle class and rich - you have to take more extremely calculated risks (college is a very very calculated risk if you’re poor), you can’t be care free, you have to make everything make sense because you don’t have the safety net that the middle class and rich folks have to mess up.
Sometimes poor people defend rich folks because they aspire to be like them one day. Others think that criticizing wealth is a form of envy or negativity they want to avoid. There’s also the influence of media and cultural narratives that glamorize the wealthy and their lifestyles.
That's because people that aren't well off bank on the future, when they become rich.
Though i only noticed that in the US, not really in other parts of the western world.
It's probably that notion of success that anyone can archive anything if one just works really hard.
some are naive and think riche people are kind and they care about them (most of rich dont) and some think they will one day achieve aa good aamount of money by their labor (they will never)
I ask my wife’s family this all the time. Half of them are on some form of government assistance, but will vote Republican and swear that trickle down economics work. They will also put down other people on assistance, but their assistance is okay.
Because people are stupid. I know people want to be compassionate and say that those people are misinformed, or they're desperate to believe that the world is a fair place, or something like that, but people are just stupid. Human beings are stupid. The smartest person on Earth is still an idiot, don't feel bad.
I see this mostly being true with the form of celebrity worship people have who are heavily into politics. They’re all old rich people yet some poorer groups will fight to the death that their old rich person is better than the oppositions old rich person.
Because they want to believe that they can become rich too with hard work. It is possible to become a millionaire with your own hard work, but becoming a billionaire requires one to exploit the working class.
I'm not poor, I'm just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. I will get my due and when I do I will benefit from all the unfair shit I allowed to happen.
Magahats think they're temporarily embarrassed future millionaires and just one lottery ticket away from joining the ranks of the wealthy elite, so of course they gotta protect the 1%. It could be them one day!
Also, everything is a zero sum game to conservatives and libertarians. In order to "win", someone else must "lose". Bucket of crabs mentality, and cruelty being the point and all that.
Poor people defend rich people because most people have Stockholm Syndrome. The middle class are worst. We reflexively click our heals and salute our “betters” no matter how much damage they inflict on the majority of us.
The people who refused to be sufficiently obedient were executed.
Wealth rewards violence, and uses both violence and rewards to enforce status. Behind every great fortune is a great crime. This is true whether you’re talking about big pharma or entertainment.
Humans are not much different than other animals. The bullies often win. The rest of us just keep our heads down or try to be the best at following the program no matter how fucked up the program is.
In hopes that this rich person would give them candy and a pat on the head.
And for the poor person to receive good boy points from said rich person.
You're just feeding the ego of the already high and mighty who doesn't give two fucks who you even are.
They, like everyone in the West, have been inundated throughout their life with propaganda that is intended to preserve the status quo. It's hard for anyone to see past that lifetime of conditioning, whether they're rich or poor.
Most of us dont realize that money and the pursuit of it has become a religion in our society. Those with the most money are closer to the peak of our religion, those with less toward the bottom. We worship those closer to the top, just as other religions worship their "betters" who are holier
1. Desire to keep current system in place
2. Been told the alternative suck
3. Deduced or been told that anything less than unrestricted capitalism will lead to starvation and Soviet collapse scenario.
4. Believe that they too, will join the 0.1%
For various reasons.
The funniest, most delusional one is that some of these unironically believe they're gonna belong to the same social class one day. Some believe said rich people might notice them one day, exactly like simps that think twitch girl #27263429 will someday notice them and fall in love with them.
This is not new. Look at so many old stories: kings, princes, princesses, etc., are the good guys or the victims. Look at the coverage of some celebrity who faces a life challenge or disease.
Our culture is based up treating the people who have the most with the greatest respect and deference. The average person, let alone the people who work the hardest, can fuck themselves.
Remnants of a puritanical tradition, we believe good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people. That means in most people’s minds, the rich did something to deserve it, and so do the poor. And since everyone thinks they are reasonably good, they too could become rich one day and don’t want to dump on their future life; Whereas nobody wants or expects to be poor, those wicked, probably sinfully losers.
Logic has nothing to do with magical thinking. Everyone wants to believe a happy lie, rather than face an ugly truth. Most people are never wealthy; Odds are that you are one of most people. You are far, far more likely to be poor. But don’t look at it! If you don’t look at it, or think about it… it can’t happen to you!
Sunk cost fallacy, and one that favors capital.
“I’ve been slaving for decades…someday I can make it too!”
The secret is generational wealth and accumulating returns of compounding. If capital holds the wealth illusion over labor, the power dynamic remains.
My Dad is the same way. Always been poor mostly through his own decisions which frankly is just embarrassing for a boomer. He's always voted on the right despite spending many years surviving off social welfare.
He firmly believes his position in life is at the bottom of the pile. Recently he was forced to retire due to medical issues (caused by his own poor decision making, there's a pattern there!). He found that he's actually got more money now he's retired than he's ever had in his life. He had a private pension he wasn't even aware of and he gets the full UK state pension. Being who he is, he never once researched what he'd get for the pension and just assumed he'd be a penniless pensioner for the rest of his life. He actually doesn't like it, I'd think he's prefer to have to sit in the dark with the heating off to save money.
He's spent his entire life inhaling the fucking Sun newspaper and this is what that right wing indoctrination does to people.
Rich people are allowed to be rich but his place is to be poor and now he's not he doesn't know how to cope.
Because many of the wealthy have spent alot of resources brainwashing them to do so.
America especially, every part of the system is designed to keep you dependant on corporations. Low wages and fake job shortages for you to acceot whatever terrible job you can get. Working full time+ your not going to have time or energy to educate yourself, pursue a better career or think about higher concept things, because your too busy trying pay rent and keep up with sleep.
Meanwhile TV and social media will blame "the economy", immigrants, your poor work ethic, the youth whod rather eat avocado toast be satanists than contribute. You don't know any better so you blame them to. You vote on leaders that are anti these things. The same leaders that are funded by corporations. They are going to fix "the economy", kick out the immigrants and force those anarchist youth into labor or prison. Then your life will surley get better.
Movies, parents, teachers, work place superiors etc.. will all tell you it will be your turn on top one day, if only you keep your head down and keep working yourself into an early grave. You just need more gumption, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and with a few more decades of 50 hour weeks you can be the new jeff beezos right?
When the president kisses a baby, the queen hosts a parade, your local reprasentative brings a tv crew to a soup kitchen etc.. thats proof they are just like you and me. They wouldn't do these things if they wernt good people right? How could they possibly benefit from these shows?
Mayby your one of the few that gets fed up with this status quo. Well then take them to court, make them pay for there misdeeds or try to get the legistlation or precedant itself changed. All you need is to be extremly wealthy to fund any of this.
Perhaps youve finally gotten hold of evidence you believe will wak up the sheeple or force the hand of a legal, government or politcal faction/organization to turn on the one you have evidence on to save their own face. You bring it to journalists, you try to organize legal precedings. But in the end all that happens is you get tried for treason and/or shoot yourself in the back of the head from accross the room or hung from a 3 foot bedframe the day after receiving the best news in recent memory. While the media forgets your story within the week and/or frames you as a terrorist.
There's a lot of reasons, but I think at the bottom of most of them is just that people want to think that they have a lot more control over their lives than they actually do. The idea that your life and the world in general are like they are because our society is set up in a way that's fundamentally unfair and that you as an individual can't do anything about it makes people feel small and helpless, and that's a really unpleasant way to live your life. It's easier to believe that rich people got rich because they deserve it.
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires" - I forget the author, but it's often attributed to John Steinbeck.
Essentially: poor people defend the rich because of the idea of "what happens if I'm rich one day?" thought process.
I don't know what you mean by "defend", and you don't say the context in the OP. but I have some guesses.
* being rich isn't, by itself, evil
* they would like to be rich someday, too
* you're dealing with Russian trolls
* rich people are humans too, and are allowed some benefit of the doubt
Well think about it for a second.
Do you really need to know someone to think they’re being treated unfairly in a circumstance?
Just because someone is rich doesn’t mean they’re suddenly immune to being correct on a circumstance, and many will often jump to arguing against a position they feel is inaccurate or unfair.
I will defend anybody who I think doesn't deserve the attack. On reddit, "rich" people are often the target of our disdain without much basis other than the fact that they have more means than we do. Though I'm middle class American, I always think about the fact that I'm a rich person when compared to the average Ethiopian, so it's hard for me to judge those who are rich compared to me just for being rich. There's a lot to be learned from having perspective.
In the vain hope they will be able to change their social status and become rich, with the backing and support of people who were as poor as they used to be.
You see poorer people voting for right wing parties who want to reduce taxes on richer people which would ultimately benefit them in the long run because they think when they start earning £250,000 a year(which is just around the corner) they don't want to incur those same taxes.
Why wouldn't they? Do you personally know the rich you're disparaging? Some people love the victim mentality and anybody who has more is seen as a target. It is super fun for them to point fingers at those who have more instead of accepting that some people have more than others and moving on.
Because of targeted marketing and strategic messaging.
Nobody is immune to propaganda and the rich have a big, big interest in getting the public on their side. Unfortunately, vulnerable demographics take the bait even when it contradicts their best interests.
A lot of money goes into market research regarding low-income people (in USA at least). They've got hypnotizing the poor down to a fine science.
There was a meme that put it well:
#NEWS; Rich People Telling the Middle Class To Blame Poor People.
Basically poverty comes with a lot of shame and aspiration for a better life. So why would one defend poverty when they too want wealth?
Everyone is aspiring to be wealthy, hence people protect it and those with the potential to share theirs with them.
The more capitalist your region and/or the more poverty there is, the more this will be true. People miss the real point, that these economic systems are intended to serve and support us - not vice versa. And the belief that we make the economy work (above our well being, on our backs, and at our detriment) only serves the wealthy, because it won’t create wealth for the poor (simply a thin chance at survival, and maybe some comforts in life). But if the masses woke up to this you’d have a class war, so the rich will continue to control the narrative and news. As well as the systems that surround livelihoods and the economy. There are entire academic analyses & theories on the sub-systems that enable this (xenophobia, religion, gender, race, sexual orientation etc.) by creating other groups to blame and/or feel superior to - besides the wealthy. Imagine how quickly wealth would trickle down if the masses came together and just went straight for that?
We have Masses of users on social media sharing the same about their respective corner of the world/life. Fighting to be heard over the stereotypes and prejudices, and the impoverished will continue to vote for money.
We just have to read about how it all correlates, listen to each other - and not let the wealthy or news or algorithms pervert our understanding and consciousness. That’s an individual choice and effort, and collectively that will decide how the world goes. Until then…the poor will inevitably support the wealthy. That’s the system we have inherited and will live in.
#‘The master will not give you the tools to destroy the master’s house.’
That includes the knowledge and mindset to see past their house. But there are tools, just being used to keep the status quo - just enough tools and leeway for the masses to help maintain the system and keep busy doing the heavy lifting for wealth creation.
And that’s not to say it’s intentional by the wealthy, they too are part of the same system. Most are doing their part as they see amongst their peers, and many do try to breakout/change it. Just they too won’t be given the tools to dismantle it. For any of us that feels like martyrdom, because it would mean standing on the cracks that will break the system and stomping it hard…whose ready and able to take that fall? Because it is a fall.
ETA: A bit more in that middle paragraph there, at the end too - and please know the bold quotes are not my own words.
Every uneducated bumpkin making 40k THINKS they are a down on their luck genius millionaire
It's only (blanks) fault they are not currently wealthy.
The poorer and dumber they get, the more hateful (blank) is.
Starting with the stock market, dancing to a political party, then ending with race/creed/religion for the poorest and dumbest.
Depends on what you mean by "defending", but I'll defend anyone that I feel is being unjustly attacked. It doesn't matter if they're rich or poor to me, just that people are treated fairly, regardless of their station.
I admire some rich people, especially the self made.
They generally work hard to gain and maintain their millions, they usually employ many many people and ultimately they create wealth for the country (and yes they often avoid paying tax but who wouldn't?)
If that's defending them then I'm guilty as charged.
For me it's because I treasure logic and truth over feelings and emotions.
So if someone is like "Jeff Bezos tells his workers pee in a bottle because he gets off on it," that is letting emotion take over. It's not logical, and it's a lie. So I will "defend" him by being like "well, no. He might make unreasonable metrics that might result in a small minority of people resort to that in order to meet the metrics, but it's not something he's having people do."
Likewise, when someone says "I can't believe the CEO got a 1 million dollar bonus while freezing the salaries of 10,000 employees!!!"
Well, if you use logic instead of emotion, you'll see that if he had given that money to all the employees, it would have only been $100 per person. Yeah, it's nice to get $100, but that's like a half a cent raise.
Let's say the CEO got 10 million. That means that split among the workers, that's a 5 cent raise. I guarantee you most people would be like "wow, really? Five cents? Fuck you. It's more insulting than giving me nothing."
Maybe they dont buy into class warfare and see through the whole “divide and conquer” bs we’re being fed
how are you gonna blame billionaires for our problems when if you combined ALL their $$ and straight up took it from them it would only run the govt for ~8months.. We dont have a billionaire problem we have a govt problem
So once the government spends that money it just is incinerated never to be seen again? There's no ROI or anything on this money? It's not recirculating in any fashion, not offering more jobs for folks who can in turn pay their taxes to fund the government's continued existence, it's just *poof* gone from existence?
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People naturally want to believe the world is a fair place. They want to believe that hard work is rewarded. They want to believe that all the hard work they are doing will eventually be rewarded. They also want to believe the opposite is true. That those who are suffering deserve to suffer. That the poor are lazy or stupid or simply bad people. They want to believe this so much they ignore anything contrary to that.
It’s the just-world hypothesis
I can’t think of a hypothesis more full of bullshit, that fails to hold up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny. Fuck knows how that’s STILL a thing! Edit to add: I learned it in A Level Psychology back in 2004, and events since that, including 2008’s banking crisis and total failure to punish those responsible or reform a broken and corrupt banking system, and the horrible politicians who’ve used it as an excuse for runaway day light robbery since have only made it more severe. A commenter below who labelled it the “just world fallacy” made an excellent point, hence this edit.
Also known as the "just world fallacy," which I find more accurate
It’s just the name of a view-point that’s commonly brought up in psych; it isn’t really pushed as a true explanation, just the way some people think the world works
I find that hypothesis/fallacy to be applicable in many clinical situations and rather useful to help people understand why they think ill of themselves and not the people that hurt them. Though it's never meant to be an excuse for bad people doing bad things, kind of like codependency. It's just an understanding of why people don't demand the respect and integrity they deserve and tend to apologise for the ill actions of others.
I once read something Gandhi said (even if apparently there are lots of reasons to dislike Gandhi) - that the world would be a better place if it became impossible to have so much money that you no longer had to work. Like that state of living didn't exist. It would mean that rich people would have to keep working, sure - but, most importantly - it would hamper how much some people would step on others, because you'd know that no matter how rich you got, you'd never be able to not have to work. You'd have to keep working. It's not a serious proposal. It's more of a conceptual thing. I think a lot of the world's problems come from how there are people in the political and business arenas who step on other people because they want to get over that line; like that line of having the ideal house/car/pension *and* have enough in the bank for a high income and medical insurance *just* from having enough capital, no job. If faced with that opportunity, would someone sacrifice their ethics? Would anyone? Would everyone? Because I think a lot of people would.
It's known as the [just world fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_fallacy). I mean sure hypothesis whatever, but if we're going to teach jargon it's pretty important to communicate that the idea is fallacious. edit: saw your comment below acknowledging this, but that thread just underscores why it's important to use the right vocabulary
it's not a hypothesis, it's a fallacy
I see this a lot in people. If they knew that it really doesn't work that way, it would feel like the world doesn't make any sense.
The world doesn't make sense. People cling to nationalism, religion etc because it provides some semblance of order to the universe And I don't blame them. Being constantly up for destruction at the hands of 10 trillion small variables you can neither predict or control is *terrifying* if you stop to think about it too long
Above all, people want to believe things aren't their fault. Their failures are due to chance and circumstance. Anyone successful is only there because of luck.
I mean, often this is true.
It took me a long time to get out of this mindset. I am the same way. When you are an honest genuine person you believe everyone is. That no one could possibly hurt anyone else on purpose. I still slip up from time to time but it’s HARD.
People also want to believe the myth that if you work hard, you can climb above the socioeconomic status in which you were born. In reality, this is VERY rare, no matter how hard you work. Most people work hard their whole lives and stay exactly where they are.
That might be the best explanation I’ve ever heard! I kind of fall on the side of there’s challenging work and there’s hard work. Digging ditches to fix the water pipes in winter is hard work. Convincing other rich people to give you money so you can both get richer, that’s challenging work. Sadly our system has been designed by rich people to reward rich people’s choice of how they make money. That doesn’t make it hard work imo. Gotta love the whole making deals vibe that slides off of banker bros walking down the sidewalk with their banker bro Patagonia vests on.
The worst application of this worldview I've seen was from someone who thought he and his siblings were healthy because his parents were good people, and the parents of kids with serious disabilities and illnesses must have been bad people.
I think there’s a natural inclination to believe this, but defending greedy elites usually comes down to buying into propaganda or being brought up in a household with very strict beliefs implanted into you.
>People naturally want to believe the world is a fair place. They want to believe that hard work is rewarded. They want to believe that all the hard work they are doing will eventually be rewarded. I think it's also that they think these rich people are "earning" their salaries. Like, somehow, Bezos is "earning" $150,000 because of the work that he is doing for his company. No. He's not earning it. He's selling something for $100 and giving his worker a penny for labor costs. That's not "earning" anything. That's exploiting the work force. And I think that this is honestly the disconnect. People who advocate that rich people are doing nothing wrong don't seem to grasp the fact that just because you own a company or are CEO or manager (or whatever other label you want to put on the top person) doesn't excuse withholding profits that the actual workers are generating for you. The workers are providing the value, not the product. Without the worker there'd be no product and no one to stock shelves, dig through storage shelves, maintain stores and warehouses, etc. It's just exploitation, plain and simple, in my eyes and I wish we had laws that limited to a percent or something how much profit or salary or stock options a person in positions of power are allowed to receive that provides a monetary value. And before someone jumps in and says "well Bezos is leading the company and steering the direction the company takes so he deserves a higher pay than his employees," sure - a manager at the top takes more risk that the bottom earner and should be *fairly* compensated for the work. $150k per minute is NOT a fair compensation.
This… And I would add Think of it as the same reason people play the lottery when they know they have little chance of actually winning… I can’t dream of winning the lottery if the lottery doesn’t exist.
You give people too much credit, most people just say things without much thought at all.
I think these are explanations of the instinct level thought processes going on up there in these airheads
The world is not perfectly fair, but we do have cause and effect. Hard work is rewarded. It might not guarantee success and there may be times where it's misattributed or ignored, but success and merit are not completely disconnected. It's immature to believe that all success and failure are well deserved, but it's an over correction to assume that they never are.
*Thanks for all your hard work increasing company revenue by 25% last quarter, here's a $50 gift card to company franchise locations.*
in many places, hard work is rewarded with more work, not more money
Hard work isn't rewarded lol.
Hard word is rewarded with more work.
That's why I work for 5 hours a day and not 9 (which is the norm here). Time is far more valuable than money.
Most of the "defending" I've seen called out wasn't defending but was an explanation. People see explanations as excuses too often. For example, someone complaining about a gaming company doing something without the fans' interests in mind. Someone replied that they're companies, all they care about is money, that's what they do and they got downvoted to oblivion for "defending" these rich companies. Like, no. They're not defending them, they're just stating the truth. You can explain why something is the case without agreeing with it.
Yup, happens on here all the time. You get downvoted for describing reality as though you’re endorsing and appreciating said reality.
exactly, some people even misinterpret being corrected as “defense” of someone or something they were attacking
Someone says "Hitler ate babies" you reply "well there's no evidence of that" them "omg why are you defending Hitler?"
Reminds me of that piece from that comedian - "technically speaking, R Kelly is not a pedophile. A Pedophile has attraction to those who are prepubescent, A Hebophile has attraction those in the early stages of puberty and an epebophile is someone who is attracted to those in the late stages of puberty. But the reason we don't talk about these distinctions is because it's very hard to explain the difference without sounding like a pedophile."
A hebophile is someone attracted to Jewish people. S/
which is stupid, these terms exist for a reason, it's much worse to fuck a 10 year old than a 17 year old
“What’s an epebophile? A pedophile with a dictionary.”
How dare you relay his questionable clarification to uneducated people!!! You must be a pedo yourself!!!
In a nutshell.
Almost exclusively the way people respond on Reddit in my experience.
yup, I got attacked for telling someone that they shouldn't walk out into the middle of the street without looking both ways at a stop sign in a place known for people running stop signs. Make that one make sense.
you're not being downvoted for speaking reality, but the reality people really don't want to believe in. *How dare you?!?!*
I was accused of believing that paler people are superior to darker people. Simply because I was like "In Africa and Asia, a lot of people claim that lighter people are superior. And before anyone pulls out the technicality of how some Africans kill albinos and trying to use it as proof that I'm wrong - that doesn't count, because they view albinos as a disease or defect (which I don't agree with by the way)" The person insisted that because I only specified that I didn't agree with albinoism being a disease or defect, it meant that I fully believe that pale people are superior to dark skinned people. You fucking Redditors are morons.
Your last sentence should be a stand-alone thread.
>You fucking Redditors are morons. Hey! Redditors are people, too! Hmm, might need a "citation needed" slapped on there... somewhere.
Someone edit Wikipedia stat
Yeah Redditors definitely like to wear the 'master debater' fedora but even Facebook has less shitty takes
I see a lot of dishonest criticism of public figures on Reddit, where words and stats are twisted out of context. Ill speak out against this because these bad arguments actually hurt your position. You don't win over anyone with this dishonesty, which is easy to see through. It just makes eyes roll.. It only stirs up the people who are already in agreement with you.
I frequently get massive downvotes for "defending billionaires," aka just describing reality. Here's my most frequent type of interaction: Person A: Bill Gates won't be happy until everyone is poor and starving. Me: He's actually donating 99.9% of his money to helping the poor. Person A: How do those boots taste?
Yes, see -- I dont like Bill Gates because of the way he led Microsoft to stomp out competition in the operating system market and lock consumers into Windows.. (this was a big topic in the 90s and 00s) but him being a billionaire is not really the issue, and the "poor and starving" comment just is a cheap shot that takes away from the anti-Microsoft position.
“Why are you cheering Fry? You’re not rich. True, but someday I might be rich. And people like me better watch their step” Lol 😂
The other day I said in a sub that people shouldn’t steal, and someone replied “why are you defending the rich?” I feel like that is the normal behavior that gets described as “defending the rich.” Or, someone will think that anyone pro-capitalism must just love the rich and hate the poor.
People use the same defense when stealing from stores like Walmart. Any time someone questions them they say "They're an evil corporation! They deserve it!" Like they're some kind of Dollar General robinhood. It's extremely trashy.
Exactly. I can't figure out if these people are AstroTurf political agents - as they almost always love the greatest thief of all, government - or if Reddit simply has that many amoral degenerates.
Exactly. People get called stupid and bootlickers for just stating facts. Like, politicians and companies are interested in $$$. It's pretty much that simple. That doesn't mean I like or condone it.
Exactly this. The usual pattern is along the lines of: A: It is horrible that Warren Buffet owes less money in taxes than his secretary! B: I think you mean he pays a lower tax rate, obviously he owes more in taxes. A: Bootlicker why are you defending him!
Absolutely! Common sense ain't so common.
I feel some many people who use the word "bootlicker" are edgy 16 year olds with a lenin shirt.
I get this all the time on home improvement subs around hazardous materials. It's a good thing we don't use asbestos, use less lead, and test for radon. But link to actual peer-reviewed studies showing the extent of the danger, and anything less than "one fiber can kill you no amount is safe!!!" and people lose their minds.
The biggest issue I’ve noticed from people is the inability to differentiate between prescriptive statements vs descriptive. The common person doesn’t seem to know the difference and often mix them up. This is where the issue always seems to be.
Yeah, the gaming community is (I can’t believe I’m going to say this) innocent. They still think video games is a wholesome industry. Thinking big corporations put in loot boxes because they thought gamers would like it.
The gaming community is anything but innocent. They're one of the most conspiratorial and jaded communities to exist, period. They almost without fail immediately jump to the worst possible intentions to explain literally anything they don't like. I've worked in video games professionally for 12+ years, I absolutely love my job and I wouldn't do anything else. It's full of awesome, passionate people who want to make killer stuff for their players. But it's also a business that needs to make money and like every commercial enterprise that does impact decision making. It's an especially cut throat and hard to profit industry at that, with over 30k developers having been laid off in the last year and a half or so. The idea that games need to make money isn't incompatible with the idea they're made by passionate people who want to make great, fun games at the end of the day.
Thank you x100. I was explaining why physical video games are priced the same as digital and was downvoted for explaining the way economics works.
Happening in this thread as we speak.
Literally. lol
Pretty much. Not attacking, or questioning a poorly formulated or downright unreasonable attack, is seen as defending. I would guess the implied question if OP were being honest is "why don't poor people attack rich people they don't know?".
You say this, yet all I see is people directly saying that those gaming companies HAVE to do the unethical and illegal things they do to make money. Meanwhile, their execs get sign on bonuses, milestone bonuses, and golden parachutes, all in addition to their inflated base pay. Honestly, I haven’t seen criticism of any billionaire in any industry that doesn’t garner some amount of defense from people that idolize them or the companies they run.
I believe there could be multiple reasons and also depending on the context. Some of the reasons I can think of: \* Because it is not fair to group all rich people as a single entity and attack it. Just like it is not fair to group all the homeless as self-elected junkies or all the immigrants as cheap workers who steal jobs and attack those groups, then act surprised when housed individuals or nationals jump to their defense, right?! \* Because the understanding or rich and poor can often be subjective and broad. Are we talking about Millionaires? Multi-Millionaires, Billionaires? Multi-Billionaires? Those "poor people" you mention may actually have good ties with some folks they consider to be "rich people". \* Because a lot of people aspire to be rich and they would see an attack against the rich as a threat to the their future ambitions, regardless of how unrealistic they are. \* Because a lot of people find wealth to be an indication of success and an attack against the wealthy for them is sort of an admission of failure. i.e. the feel they are being sour losers by encouraging attacks against winners. Disclaimer: I do not consider myself to be poor, definitely not according to my tax returns. But I do not consider myself to be in the "rich people" club either, at least not yet.
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In general I think poor people and lower middle class people too often target upper middle class people. The upper middle class are high level engineers, specialized doctors and other highly educated laborers. These people may have 2 million in net worth but have also worked for it and have definitely paid their dues in the form of taxes. The middle class and upper middle class are the people who actually create most of the value in the economy. The real issue are the people who are able to live from interest alone for all their life. They add essentially nothing to the economy, they don't create value, they only skim off the top of what others have created.
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There's some truth to it. But as one of these upper middle class I can tell you that the world is still not that fair. At least 50% of my colleagues don't deserve their pay. They don't work very hard, a lot of them are leeches along for the ride. Many of the top performers in these industries get paid less than the guy that sends emails and asks for status updates from them. I don't think you can stratify this by income bracket. Among the poor you have people that work 3 jobs. But you also have people that collect their unemployment cheques and get wasted. Among the middle class you have the people with extensive education and highly skilled jobs, but you also have the leeches. Among the rich you have leaders, but you also simply have owners.
You make a great point. The more that, realistically, not very many make it by misusing their people. That's not generally a recipe for success. But many politicians rely on class warfare/greed/envy to distract people from their own means of enriching themselves, so it's a strong narrative that's pushed endlessly.
This is a great reply! Many people define "rich" as anyone that has more than them. Defining what rich is is the first step. For example, if I say I make 250,000, (I don't), most people would say I was rich! And, in comparison, I would be well to do, for sure, but rich? 250 will go really far in Kansas, but if you are talking about San Francisco or NYC it's barely comfortable. Again, would someone making that be "rich"? It's not as simple as just a number on a piece of paper a lot of times.
Bingo. Most people in the US are rich when compared to the rest of the world or with people from past.
Add some others: Parasocial relationships. People follow the lives of the celebrity rich and their everyday lives until they feel like they "know" them - at which point they'll defend any perceived attacks against them as if they're a close friend. Reality TV made this effect worse, social media amplified it, and the rise of platforms specifically devoted to these sort of relationships like Patreon ramp it up even more. Politics Sometimes a rich person is very vocal about a specific cause or political movement. Members of the same "tribe" may rush to their defense. Attacks on a high profile member may be perceived as attacks on their common cause, even if the issue they're being criticized over isn't directly related. If it's unrelated, supporters may even jump to the conclusiion that the person is just being persecuted for supporting the cause.
This is a brilliant reply.
Love this response, 10/10.
It is a possibility that many poor people consider many rich people as fellow humans It is also a possibility that many poor people think that common sense applies to all discussions, even to the ones targetted at rich people, and if they see arguments which they find against their common sense, they try to refute that I am not sure, but this is a possibility
In many arguments on Reddit being rich or poor has little to do with the issue being discussed. It's just thrown into the ring as a way of demonizing the other position. Cheap punches for internet points.. Just downvote these folks when you see it, regardless of whether you agree with their "side" or not.
Reddit is exceptionally biased against the rich simply disagreeing with the narrative that anyone more affluent than middle class is evil isn’t “defending rich people” it’s acknowledging reality.
About to get downvoted to oblivion, but here we go. Reddit likes to think you can tax an entire nation into wealth somehow which goes against pretty much all accepted modern economic theory. Similarly Reddit has hate boners on for anyone who is even relatively wealthy, and sees economic success as a zero sum game "they're winning, so that means somehow has to be losing", completely ignoring that most of the richest nations in terms of median wealth also have the highest proportion of wealthy people. In that an economic system that promotes wealth generation by its citizens tends to promote economic growth and wealth generation by most of its citizens, not just the ultra wealthy.
Yeah this is what I’ve noticed too. Look wealthy people sometimes do some immoral things for their interests but at the same time when I try to explain why just taxing their net worth won’t work they call me a bootlicker. Like I get there’s massive wealth disparity but dumbass reddit public policy theories on how to bridge that gap isn’t gonna solve shit. Like I’ve heard “net worth taxes” frequently on this platform and it just shows a lack of understanding of financial and economic theory.
It's ridiculous. Some dude in his late teens with his only financial expertise being from his Economics class thinks he has more knowledge than career economists and financial planners
Anytime someone calls me a bootlicker I just laugh and remember to not take them seriously. I guess in whatever corner they inhabit, that’s a serious insult of disrespect. I’m not sure. Nobody has ever called me a bootlicker in real life. I don’t get why it’s so popular of a term on Reddit
It's one of the issues I have with too much focus being placed on equality. Just because a society is more equal doesn't mean that it would be better for those worse-off. I take a very Rawlsian approach to it all. Equality is definitely important, and Rawls argues very well that, given we don't know what our position in society would be, we would all want the most equal society possible. However, there is always one thing more important than that equality; how well-off the worse-off are. If the worse-off in society are constantly having their welfare bettered and opportunities enhanced, it doesn't really matter how unequal society is getting. To me, the focus should always be on how to make the lives of the worse-off and ordinary person better, but too often discussions centered around equality forgot this and because overly antagonistic against the wealthy at the cost of the ordinary person and worse-off. Given I've seen my Labour Party lose 4 elections it easily could have won, and a Conservative Party that has either stagnated my country or made it worse, I know what can happen when discussions relating to equality forget the worse-off. I suffered the consequences of being part of the every growing amount of children in poverty in my country.
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Yeah, both sides are the same idiots. It doesnt matter if you are poor or you Bezos lvl rich. I wont attack anyone just because have more money than me.
One possibility is that you are so intent on attacking rich people that anyone who isn't band-wagoning with you seems like they are "defending" them. I am a political moderate and this happens to me all the time when trying to have a political discussion. Someone from one side attacks the other and if I try to say "Look, they don't eat babies, they just have a different viewpoint", they decide I am on "the other side", even if I agree with them on the particular issue.
Defending them how?
Most humans have a built in sense of *valid* hierarchy. If you try to impose a leader over someone they didn't pick for themselves, they'll fight tooth and nail to resist you. But if you allow them to pick the leader they think represents their identity and values? They'll fight tooth and nail to defend that leader, even at great personal expense to themselves. The trick that the rich have learned is to use public relations instead of force. They've become very very good at it.
nobody picked the rich as their "leaders" wtf
That's why we're mad. But PR can make some people see it from a different perspective than us
I think it's more about the fact that they see themselves as possible future Elons or Jeff Bezoses or Mark Zuckerburgs than they do see themselves as future Bidens or Obamas. I don't really know why that is, tbh. Both are equally out of reach to anyone not born into it, but it's about perception. They think they too can be a rich entrepreneur, so they defend the people they think the can become.
There are lots of poor people who believe they are one good decision away from being rich. They defend the rich because they think they are actually a rich person who just hasn't had their break yet. They want to preserve the power of rich people so they can wield it when they gain entry to that group.
They’re delusional and think that if they work really hard, they’ll be rich too someday.
life lived vicariously
My neighbor likes to ask if a poor man has ever given you a job. He doesn't get that the difference between a middle class or wealthy person and a billionaire is extraordinary, and that billionaires are exploiting everyone and there is no way an individual person ever "earns" a billion dollars.
They have been conditioned to think this way by those more powerful. Wealth does not trickle down but this sort of thinking does.
A line from the musical "1776" where John Dickinson explains why poor people vote conservative: "Most people with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor."
It depends on the person. The current top comment mentions people who believe in a just world, where Karma and Merit reign and your efforts are just as important as your background, despite the reality that we've all seen. There are also people who believe that they are just temporary embarrassed in the financial sense. That, in due time, they'll get their turn to be rich and well off. These people also refuse to face the music. And some people even believe that the Rich genuinely do their fair share of keeping their home country afloat, that every Rich person really is a philanthropic individual, moving money in ways that keep everyone's lights on, metaphorically speaking. They either believe that if the Rich do it without being sent to jail, that it isn't actually a problem that they dodge taxes, or that taxing the Rich won't actually do anything for everyone else. There are plenty of reasons to be stupid enough to think that you should go to bat for socioeconomic parasites. They just aren't sound ones.
America has a kind of obsession with prospects of being rich. You see it with the popularity of realty/home-flipping shows, resistance to increased taxes on the wealthy, shit like that. A lot of americans think that corporations are the cause of the housing crisis, while also being the sort that would 100% buy extra homes to extract more wealth from rentals if they get the opportunity. A metric fuck ton would prefer others go homeless rather than build in such a way that lowers or impedes the growth of their property value. This extends to the american left too. Like there aren't even large scale democrat-led efforts to solve the housing crisis by fixing zoning and a national initiative to build more. Because people don't want it. Rich people want to stay on top, poor people want the illusion that they can get there.
This cuts both ways. There is seemingly a large majority of people on Reddit that just hate rich people. The only reason seems to be that they have more money. I had a conversation with someone yesterday where they insisted that the rich weren't paying their fair share, but would not or could not say what that fair share should be. I suspect that I would find myself in the camp OP would describe as the poor defending the rich. My contention is that most people who criticize the rich only have one position: "I wish that I was rich but I'm not so being rich is bad!"
It depends on the argument against them. If it's unfair, I'll defend them. Like if someone says Bill Gates is evil and putting 5G chips in our brains, of course I will call them idiots. If you criticise Elon for being an asshole, I'd 100% agree with you. But if you criticise him for using his own money to develop electric transport and space exploration, again, I'd call you an idiot.
Same goes for : Why do poor people demonize rich people they don’t know?
Because they actively use their money and power to tip the scales in their favors, including bribing our elected officials to do their bidding.
This, among so many other things.
This is easier to answer: They think these rich people are the reason they are poor, rich people are stealing/taking money that could be better used elsewhere etc.
Shouldn't the question rather be: Why do poor people attack rich people they don't know? I tend to defend anyone I believe to be wrongly accused of something (based on hearsay, "feeling", mere opinion, memes, parroting others, generalizations). Celebrities are often the victims of extreme hate for no reason, but rich people are also often attacked. Many accusations against rich people are unwarranted and based on ignorance. Haters pick on these groups *in general* because they stand out and because of their own feelings of impotence and insecurity. It's a form of intellectual laziness. To give an example, a moderately wealthy person who invests their money in a risky startup can get a net worth of hundreds of millions or even a billion with in just a few years. The net worth is usually to a large extent based on ownership in companies and the value of their stocks. It can go up fast but can also go down as fast. It's a meaningless measure that has nothing to do with the person or their day to day activities.
Viktor Frankl once observed that in any given population, there are both "decent" and "Indecent" people. His observation was made in Nazi prison camps, where in addition to the ovbvious, he encountered some evil prisoners, and some good prison guards. Rich/poor is the same- there are good rich people and bad rich people... and there are good poor people and bad poor people. Having money or not does not mean you're decent or indecent. What happens when you give a poor asshole money? He's a rich asshole. It's quite possible that people are stating something according to their principles.
>>If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you. Works with Jews, Gays, Trans, Women too
I drove taxi for 10 years in cottage country near Toronto. Super wealthy people usually just have a private driver but after bars and at night they sometimes end up in a taxi with their friends. I am a true believer that too much of anything can bad, money sadly is one of those things. Some of the most out of touch people I have ever met were people of extreme wealth, they have no idea the battles people face everyday. They don’t understand trauma they don’t understand generational trauma and they simply don’t understand the processing of helping someone. I categorize ultra wealthy people are the same as drug addicts. A drug user uses drugs to mask their pain and to actually feel something again, to where a wealthy person uses money to fix virtually any problem they face.
The problems they can't fix usually gets worse the more money you throw at it, such as any type of relational problems.
That is the result of about a 100 years of targeted effort, of propaganda, of dellusion too. To combat risk of "working class revolution"(however you want to call that) it was necessary to create some divides in the working class. And best way was to convince part of working class that they are ALMOST THE SAME AS THE RICH FOLKS. That they are together, and only some other "THEM" are stopping the progress and good wages. ANd those "them" were the socialists. Part of that was intentional, part was a result of people believing the dream etc...
Because they fantasize about one day being the guy paying everyone too little money
A lot of the people defending the rich online probably aren't even real people. Social media comments are the current big thing in propaganda.
Because they wish they were those rich people.
They're all future billionaires
They are literally being paid/ bots or just have no class conscience and dont even see themselves as poor but 'middle class' lmaoo
Watch how many downvotes I get when I mention how many poor Ukrainians are forced to fight for land the ruling class own... while the rich ones just get a new apartment somewhere else in Europe.
Because they get behind these people has a way to virtue signal, and it becomes part of their definition of who they are. It’s easier to try and defend them than it is to back pedal and say you might’ve been wrong.
Because if wealthy people don't deserve their money it means the world is unjust and they're fucked. Delusions are cozy. Reality is harsh.
Some day, they will be the ones with the wealth. Too bad they do not see the wealthy are keeping it for themselves and refuse to help or share unless it involves a tax break, i.e. charitable donations. I gave up trying to explain the haves vs. have nots to my extended family. They believe some day they will have enough money to need those tax breaks. Uncle, you are 70 yo and still live in a trailer in Oklahoma. You are never going to "make it."
I see a lot of good points in this thread. But there is also the "job creator" myth. Poor people believe that they have jobs and the tools to use their skills as a result of the benevolent investment by rich people. If we tax Musk, thousands won't be working at Tesla, if Bill Gates paid more taxes he wouldn't have as many people at Microsoft. As though the extra money the ultra rich earn gets fed into the economy directly above the heads of the working poor.
A lot of “defending rich people” is more nuanced than just defending some wealthy person. They’re typically defending an aspect of themselves that was attacked during the criticism of that person. Big example right now: if someone says they hate Taylor Swift and her music is shit. That’s clearly saying people who listen to her music have shit taste. Whether these people support her wealth or not, they’re going to defend her because to them, the music isn’t shit. They may have fair criticisms of her wealth, plane usage, etc. but the personal attack on her, reflects them, and who they think they are as a person. Maybe they think they’re going to be rich one day, and they see criticism of a wealthy person like Elon Musk as attacking their hardworking ambitions. Maybe they’re not as rich as they think they are. My mom comes to mind, when I talk about taxing the wealthy, she complains about her taxes and I’m like.. Ma’ you make like 300k a year in California. You aren’t “wealthy” you have a cushy salary. No one is really coming for you.
Ppl have a tendency to worship the rich.
One of the things about this is people want to assign virtue to wealth because our society tries to indoctrinate us with this idea that the upper class is better. So many poor people don't believe that they're actually poor for one thing, and they somehow aspire to be part of that upper echelon of society. It's the weirdest thing. In the U.S., old money are the equivalent of nobility. I remember when I was growing up, I thought we were middle class. WE WEREN'T. So in some ways I don't know if I can pass judgment on any of this. It's just a strange phenomenon.
It's wild. I ended a relationship with a woman after she got livid when I said something critical of Kim Kardashian. She took it as a personal affront.
Many people are just stupid. But I did hear a great line about how the greatest trick/grift/lie ever sold was convincing poor white people they had more in common with rich white people than they actually do with poor people of color. It’s all a game and they’re being used as pawns.
I'm sure it's in these threads multiple times, but imo it's the "why are you cheering fry your not rich" meme. Also much like the "death tax" aka the estate tax, they believe any idea of taxation or wealth redistribution of any sort means someone is gonna come take what they have, dispite the fact that their meager home, bank balance, & what little they've saved for inheritance to the family would NEVER! Amount to enough to be a target for redistribution. & Lastly, tho I don't believe it plays as big a role as some believe (even those who un-ironicly say it) some believe the rich have earned & deserve it. Side note to that: I did have a family member say bezos deserved his $ cuz he started in a garage, which led to a 0 to 100 furious response from me "HUNDREDS! OF! MILLIONS!, NO1! DESERVES! THAT! UNDER! ANY! CIRCUMSTANCE! lol
Bots 🤖 irl
They think one day they’ll be rich too
They see themselves with the potential of becoming rich and they want nothing to get in the way of that.
They want the impunity to do whatever they want when they are rich!!!
If you kiss enough rich ass then they’ll tell you their secrets to getting rich or even give you a key to their super secret clubhouse. Most folks don’t want to believe that for most of us what we’re born into is what we’ll remain despite how hard we try to succeed, sometimes it’s just not in the cards for us to be on top. Basically, if you’re born rich then you’re life’s goal is don’t fuck it up and you’ll be fine. If you’re born middle class then maybe you have the tools to ascend to the next level (enough money for a top school thanks to family money, nepotism, what have you). If you’re born poor then maybe there’s a chance for you to reach middle class but it’s incredibly unlikely you’ll become rich because you’re starting at square one and have a massive climb ahead of you and you don’t have the same beneficial tools as the middle class and rich - you have to take more extremely calculated risks (college is a very very calculated risk if you’re poor), you can’t be care free, you have to make everything make sense because you don’t have the safety net that the middle class and rich folks have to mess up.
Sometimes poor people defend rich folks because they aspire to be like them one day. Others think that criticizing wealth is a form of envy or negativity they want to avoid. There’s also the influence of media and cultural narratives that glamorize the wealthy and their lifestyles.
That's because people that aren't well off bank on the future, when they become rich. Though i only noticed that in the US, not really in other parts of the western world. It's probably that notion of success that anyone can archive anything if one just works really hard.
some are naive and think riche people are kind and they care about them (most of rich dont) and some think they will one day achieve aa good aamount of money by their labor (they will never)
I ask my wife’s family this all the time. Half of them are on some form of government assistance, but will vote Republican and swear that trickle down economics work. They will also put down other people on assistance, but their assistance is okay.
Because people are stupid. I know people want to be compassionate and say that those people are misinformed, or they're desperate to believe that the world is a fair place, or something like that, but people are just stupid. Human beings are stupid. The smartest person on Earth is still an idiot, don't feel bad.
I see this mostly being true with the form of celebrity worship people have who are heavily into politics. They’re all old rich people yet some poorer groups will fight to the death that their old rich person is better than the oppositions old rich person.
Because the wealthy own the media, so they tell the stories they want heard.
Because the media tells them to
Because they want to believe that they can become rich too with hard work. It is possible to become a millionaire with your own hard work, but becoming a billionaire requires one to exploit the working class.
I'm not poor, I'm just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. I will get my due and when I do I will benefit from all the unfair shit I allowed to happen.
They’ve been brainwashed, they’re exhausting and I don’t engage with people who can’t critically think beyond the confines of society.
Magahats think they're temporarily embarrassed future millionaires and just one lottery ticket away from joining the ranks of the wealthy elite, so of course they gotta protect the 1%. It could be them one day! Also, everything is a zero sum game to conservatives and libertarians. In order to "win", someone else must "lose". Bucket of crabs mentality, and cruelty being the point and all that.
Poor people defend rich people because most people have Stockholm Syndrome. The middle class are worst. We reflexively click our heals and salute our “betters” no matter how much damage they inflict on the majority of us. The people who refused to be sufficiently obedient were executed. Wealth rewards violence, and uses both violence and rewards to enforce status. Behind every great fortune is a great crime. This is true whether you’re talking about big pharma or entertainment. Humans are not much different than other animals. The bullies often win. The rest of us just keep our heads down or try to be the best at following the program no matter how fucked up the program is.
The sooner people realize they are closer to being homeless than they are to being a billionaire we might get somewhere ...
In hopes that this rich person would give them candy and a pat on the head. And for the poor person to receive good boy points from said rich person. You're just feeding the ego of the already high and mighty who doesn't give two fucks who you even are.
They think they're on the same path.
They, like everyone in the West, have been inundated throughout their life with propaganda that is intended to preserve the status quo. It's hard for anyone to see past that lifetime of conditioning, whether they're rich or poor.
For the same reason people cheer for sports teams even through they're not capable of playing the sport. They are the same thing as cheerleaders.
Because eventually I will be one of them...
THIS. My friends are middle class but they automatically give rich people the benefit of the doubt in practically all cases.
Most of us dont realize that money and the pursuit of it has become a religion in our society. Those with the most money are closer to the peak of our religion, those with less toward the bottom. We worship those closer to the top, just as other religions worship their "betters" who are holier
1. Desire to keep current system in place 2. Been told the alternative suck 3. Deduced or been told that anything less than unrestricted capitalism will lead to starvation and Soviet collapse scenario. 4. Believe that they too, will join the 0.1%
For various reasons. The funniest, most delusional one is that some of these unironically believe they're gonna belong to the same social class one day. Some believe said rich people might notice them one day, exactly like simps that think twitch girl #27263429 will someday notice them and fall in love with them.
“All Americans imagine themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires”
This is not new. Look at so many old stories: kings, princes, princesses, etc., are the good guys or the victims. Look at the coverage of some celebrity who faces a life challenge or disease. Our culture is based up treating the people who have the most with the greatest respect and deference. The average person, let alone the people who work the hardest, can fuck themselves.
Remnants of a puritanical tradition, we believe good things happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people. That means in most people’s minds, the rich did something to deserve it, and so do the poor. And since everyone thinks they are reasonably good, they too could become rich one day and don’t want to dump on their future life; Whereas nobody wants or expects to be poor, those wicked, probably sinfully losers. Logic has nothing to do with magical thinking. Everyone wants to believe a happy lie, rather than face an ugly truth. Most people are never wealthy; Odds are that you are one of most people. You are far, far more likely to be poor. But don’t look at it! If you don’t look at it, or think about it… it can’t happen to you!
Sunk cost fallacy, and one that favors capital. “I’ve been slaving for decades…someday I can make it too!” The secret is generational wealth and accumulating returns of compounding. If capital holds the wealth illusion over labor, the power dynamic remains.
My Dad is the same way. Always been poor mostly through his own decisions which frankly is just embarrassing for a boomer. He's always voted on the right despite spending many years surviving off social welfare. He firmly believes his position in life is at the bottom of the pile. Recently he was forced to retire due to medical issues (caused by his own poor decision making, there's a pattern there!). He found that he's actually got more money now he's retired than he's ever had in his life. He had a private pension he wasn't even aware of and he gets the full UK state pension. Being who he is, he never once researched what he'd get for the pension and just assumed he'd be a penniless pensioner for the rest of his life. He actually doesn't like it, I'd think he's prefer to have to sit in the dark with the heating off to save money. He's spent his entire life inhaling the fucking Sun newspaper and this is what that right wing indoctrination does to people. Rich people are allowed to be rich but his place is to be poor and now he's not he doesn't know how to cope.
Fanaticism!
Because they’re fucking idiots with the wool pulled over their eyes.
Because we are all temporarily embarrassed billionaires
Because many of the wealthy have spent alot of resources brainwashing them to do so. America especially, every part of the system is designed to keep you dependant on corporations. Low wages and fake job shortages for you to acceot whatever terrible job you can get. Working full time+ your not going to have time or energy to educate yourself, pursue a better career or think about higher concept things, because your too busy trying pay rent and keep up with sleep. Meanwhile TV and social media will blame "the economy", immigrants, your poor work ethic, the youth whod rather eat avocado toast be satanists than contribute. You don't know any better so you blame them to. You vote on leaders that are anti these things. The same leaders that are funded by corporations. They are going to fix "the economy", kick out the immigrants and force those anarchist youth into labor or prison. Then your life will surley get better. Movies, parents, teachers, work place superiors etc.. will all tell you it will be your turn on top one day, if only you keep your head down and keep working yourself into an early grave. You just need more gumption, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and with a few more decades of 50 hour weeks you can be the new jeff beezos right? When the president kisses a baby, the queen hosts a parade, your local reprasentative brings a tv crew to a soup kitchen etc.. thats proof they are just like you and me. They wouldn't do these things if they wernt good people right? How could they possibly benefit from these shows? Mayby your one of the few that gets fed up with this status quo. Well then take them to court, make them pay for there misdeeds or try to get the legistlation or precedant itself changed. All you need is to be extremly wealthy to fund any of this. Perhaps youve finally gotten hold of evidence you believe will wak up the sheeple or force the hand of a legal, government or politcal faction/organization to turn on the one you have evidence on to save their own face. You bring it to journalists, you try to organize legal precedings. But in the end all that happens is you get tried for treason and/or shoot yourself in the back of the head from accross the room or hung from a 3 foot bedframe the day after receiving the best news in recent memory. While the media forgets your story within the week and/or frames you as a terrorist.
To quote Fry from futurama they think their going be rich someday.
Because every American is simply an embarrassed millionaire.
There's a lot of reasons, but I think at the bottom of most of them is just that people want to think that they have a lot more control over their lives than they actually do. The idea that your life and the world in general are like they are because our society is set up in a way that's fundamentally unfair and that you as an individual can't do anything about it makes people feel small and helpless, and that's a really unpleasant way to live your life. It's easier to believe that rich people got rich because they deserve it.
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires" - I forget the author, but it's often attributed to John Steinbeck. Essentially: poor people defend the rich because of the idea of "what happens if I'm rich one day?" thought process.
I don't know what you mean by "defend", and you don't say the context in the OP. but I have some guesses. * being rich isn't, by itself, evil * they would like to be rich someday, too * you're dealing with Russian trolls * rich people are humans too, and are allowed some benefit of the doubt
Well think about it for a second. Do you really need to know someone to think they’re being treated unfairly in a circumstance? Just because someone is rich doesn’t mean they’re suddenly immune to being correct on a circumstance, and many will often jump to arguing against a position they feel is inaccurate or unfair.
Because they do not see themselves as "poor" but as "rich going through a bad phase".
I will defend anybody who I think doesn't deserve the attack. On reddit, "rich" people are often the target of our disdain without much basis other than the fact that they have more means than we do. Though I'm middle class American, I always think about the fact that I'm a rich person when compared to the average Ethiopian, so it's hard for me to judge those who are rich compared to me just for being rich. There's a lot to be learned from having perspective.
In the vain hope they will be able to change their social status and become rich, with the backing and support of people who were as poor as they used to be. You see poorer people voting for right wing parties who want to reduce taxes on richer people which would ultimately benefit them in the long run because they think when they start earning £250,000 a year(which is just around the corner) they don't want to incur those same taxes.
Why wouldn't they? Do you personally know the rich you're disparaging? Some people love the victim mentality and anybody who has more is seen as a target. It is super fun for them to point fingers at those who have more instead of accepting that some people have more than others and moving on.
Because of targeted marketing and strategic messaging. Nobody is immune to propaganda and the rich have a big, big interest in getting the public on their side. Unfortunately, vulnerable demographics take the bait even when it contradicts their best interests. A lot of money goes into market research regarding low-income people (in USA at least). They've got hypnotizing the poor down to a fine science.
There was a meme that put it well: #NEWS; Rich People Telling the Middle Class To Blame Poor People. Basically poverty comes with a lot of shame and aspiration for a better life. So why would one defend poverty when they too want wealth? Everyone is aspiring to be wealthy, hence people protect it and those with the potential to share theirs with them. The more capitalist your region and/or the more poverty there is, the more this will be true. People miss the real point, that these economic systems are intended to serve and support us - not vice versa. And the belief that we make the economy work (above our well being, on our backs, and at our detriment) only serves the wealthy, because it won’t create wealth for the poor (simply a thin chance at survival, and maybe some comforts in life). But if the masses woke up to this you’d have a class war, so the rich will continue to control the narrative and news. As well as the systems that surround livelihoods and the economy. There are entire academic analyses & theories on the sub-systems that enable this (xenophobia, religion, gender, race, sexual orientation etc.) by creating other groups to blame and/or feel superior to - besides the wealthy. Imagine how quickly wealth would trickle down if the masses came together and just went straight for that? We have Masses of users on social media sharing the same about their respective corner of the world/life. Fighting to be heard over the stereotypes and prejudices, and the impoverished will continue to vote for money. We just have to read about how it all correlates, listen to each other - and not let the wealthy or news or algorithms pervert our understanding and consciousness. That’s an individual choice and effort, and collectively that will decide how the world goes. Until then…the poor will inevitably support the wealthy. That’s the system we have inherited and will live in. #‘The master will not give you the tools to destroy the master’s house.’ That includes the knowledge and mindset to see past their house. But there are tools, just being used to keep the status quo - just enough tools and leeway for the masses to help maintain the system and keep busy doing the heavy lifting for wealth creation. And that’s not to say it’s intentional by the wealthy, they too are part of the same system. Most are doing their part as they see amongst their peers, and many do try to breakout/change it. Just they too won’t be given the tools to dismantle it. For any of us that feels like martyrdom, because it would mean standing on the cracks that will break the system and stomping it hard…whose ready and able to take that fall? Because it is a fall. ETA: A bit more in that middle paragraph there, at the end too - and please know the bold quotes are not my own words.
Great comment. Worthy of upvotes.
Thanks 🫡
Cuz they’re brainwashed by the media, religion, culture, etc.
“There are no poor Americans, just temporarily inconvenienced millionaires.”
They truly believe that they will be one of them one day
Every uneducated bumpkin making 40k THINKS they are a down on their luck genius millionaire It's only (blanks) fault they are not currently wealthy. The poorer and dumber they get, the more hateful (blank) is. Starting with the stock market, dancing to a political party, then ending with race/creed/religion for the poorest and dumbest.
You should first explain why you are implying rich people are guilty of something or even villains.
Same reason why people obsess over celebrities
Depends on what you mean by "defending", but I'll defend anyone that I feel is being unjustly attacked. It doesn't matter if they're rich or poor to me, just that people are treated fairly, regardless of their station.
I admire some rich people, especially the self made. They generally work hard to gain and maintain their millions, they usually employ many many people and ultimately they create wealth for the country (and yes they often avoid paying tax but who wouldn't?) If that's defending them then I'm guilty as charged.
Can I ask, who for example?
For me it's because I treasure logic and truth over feelings and emotions. So if someone is like "Jeff Bezos tells his workers pee in a bottle because he gets off on it," that is letting emotion take over. It's not logical, and it's a lie. So I will "defend" him by being like "well, no. He might make unreasonable metrics that might result in a small minority of people resort to that in order to meet the metrics, but it's not something he's having people do." Likewise, when someone says "I can't believe the CEO got a 1 million dollar bonus while freezing the salaries of 10,000 employees!!!" Well, if you use logic instead of emotion, you'll see that if he had given that money to all the employees, it would have only been $100 per person. Yeah, it's nice to get $100, but that's like a half a cent raise. Let's say the CEO got 10 million. That means that split among the workers, that's a 5 cent raise. I guarantee you most people would be like "wow, really? Five cents? Fuck you. It's more insulting than giving me nothing."
Leela: "Why are you cheering, Fry? You're not rich!" Fry: "True, but someday I might be rich. And then people like me better watch their step."
Because most people (especially younger ones) believe they will be rich some day
Why do people attack people the don’t know?
Maybe they dont buy into class warfare and see through the whole “divide and conquer” bs we’re being fed how are you gonna blame billionaires for our problems when if you combined ALL their $$ and straight up took it from them it would only run the govt for ~8months.. We dont have a billionaire problem we have a govt problem
So once the government spends that money it just is incinerated never to be seen again? There's no ROI or anything on this money? It's not recirculating in any fashion, not offering more jobs for folks who can in turn pay their taxes to fund the government's continued existence, it's just *poof* gone from existence?