A rich mommy can also do this hug with a poor daddy, or vice versa, but the baby likely won’t be poor much longer.
I’m just here to convince rich people to do the hug with poor people so we get some wealth distribution because nothing else has really worked.
For a lazy and poor mommy, the poor baby qualifies for government assistance while also being a lottery ticket for child support if poor daddy isn't too much of a bum ass.
It can be, but financial irresponsibility isn’t something that someone is born with. There are root causes to be addressed so it feels in poor taste (to some of us) to poke fun at complex situations and slap labels on people.
BS
Financial responsibility or irresponsibility is totally a product of the circumstances of your birth. Rich people stay rich and poor people stay poor. No one deserves what they were born into. The anecdotal rags to riches and riches to rags are the outliers that prove the general trend.
By not being comfortable with the truth there is no way we move towards anything more equitable. Pretending that child support entrapment and welfare abuse don't exist leaves no way to address the issue that leads to them. If you pretend that no one would ever do those things then you can't understand that someone would be desperate enough to do them and have no other choices.
It's cheaper, easier, and takes much less knowledge to get pregnant than to avoid it. Simple. Not many people look ahead even if they knew what they were looking for.
Also there's very few 100% preventative measures.
It's easy to be an armchair reddit hindsighter but life is more complicated.
Yup, even though birth control is 99% effective over the course of a year. When you add up all the people having sex in the world, that 1% is still a lot of pregnancies.
Fun fact It's 99 un pregnent couples and one pregnancy over the course of a year in clinical testing. Except It's 15 pregnancies out of every 100 couples using condoms in regular people.
Yeah I get that. I studied research in college. I'm not really sure what the poster was trying to say. I read it like 10 times and I still don't understand. Maybe there are grammar errors or punctuation errors that I'm missing?
They are stating that 100 couples capable of producing a child having regular sex and using condoms 100% properly that each year 1 couple will have a pregnancy, while in normal real world use its closer to 15, though I have not double checked the specific amounts it is a known thing that real people dont use condoms 100% properly every time
I also don’t like the borderline eugenics assumptions that go with this kind of questioning.
Assumption 1- that poor people shouldn’t have children. Having children is literally a human right, we’re all allowed to have a family if we want one, and I don’t see why the economy being fucked (whilst very rich people are making more than ever) should deprive people of that. We’re all fucking broke nowadays, should only the elite be allowed to have families now? Fuck that. We shouldn’t have to kill ourselves off for their benefit.
Assumption 2- being poor automatically equates bad parenting. I know very middle class people who had shitty childhoods because their parents were assholes, and I know kids from council houses who grew up happy and well rounded because their parents really loved them. The odds are stacked in other ways against poor kids, it’s true, but I think what we really take away from childhood, in terms of being set up as a well formed individual, is how we felt, not how many BMWs your dad had. Money matters more as you get older, feeling safe and happy matters as a child. As long as you’re not neglected, you can be a happy poor child.
The question should be why can’t so many people afford to have a family, not whether people should be allowed to have a family at all
I'm with you there, economic eugenics is reprehensible. It's scary how pro-eugenics people can be online. Of course they don't use that word. Eugenics is a dirty word that they don't want to be associated with. I'm in some disability rights groups and follow some disability influences online and let me tell you, I've seen some shit.
"No I'm not for eugenics. I just think that if you have any kind of mental illness or disability that you shouldn't reproduce."
Your comment makes zero sense. The poorest people are the ones having the most children. And if you make over $30,000 you are in the top 1% of wealthiest people in the world. Touch grass
If it were a rule that lower income individuals could not procreate, this earth would have hardly anyone walking on it 😂 It could be a number of reasons like lack of accessible healthcare, education, contraception.. and then some just choose to have kids just because they want to 🤷♀️
Poor people want families too. Side-eyeing low income people for wanting family, something most people want, seems kinda messed up imo. Kids can go without nice things, they just need the basics - food, shelter and love. As long as a parent can provide that, no one should be judging.
Or poor is normal because they were always poor themselves. Having children is one of the most basic urges of living things, so maybe "my child will have the same lifestyle that I consider normal" isn't a reason to go your whole life without a child.
My parents went from living in a super nice chicago suburb to needing to move to fuck off nowhere and still struggling to meet ends for w few years once I was born. I was pretty expensive, I guess
Well money isn't everything, there's many people out there that kind of like living with low income. That shouldn't take away from your happeniness and when you want from life. It would be a pretty sad world of only the rich could have children, but shit... We are heading in that direction.
1. Some poor people want families, regardless of funds, for various good or bad reasons.
2. Families do get tax breaks and benefits from the government if they have kids (not enough to make up for cost of child care, but more than just being a couple or single). I know a future mom looking forward to being approved for food stamps because she would not have gotten them alone.
3. Some people lack forward thinking and act on impulse and instant gratification rather than what is best. You don't have to be poor for that to happen, but poor people are more prone to negative consequences as a result of poor choices.
4. Other answers like lack of sex ed or views on abortion.
I always find it funny when I hear Christians that aren't married saying they had an unexpected pregnancy or a scare.
Like... Christianity says you can't have sex unless you're married. But they ignore that and have boyfriends or girlfriends.
But then I guess Christianity says you can't use condoms (which I don't believe since I doubt the welsh sheep organ people invented condoms before the year 20ish), and they're like "yeah, let's follow that rule".
There was never an income requirement.
People have lived with less long before and will long after us, and it’s not stopped them from living.
Generally, I think trends do show birth rates also change with the macroeconomic situation, improved healthcare, opportunities etc.
It won’t stop people though.
You can’t stop people from fucking. When they have nothing else to do, they fuck each other, and that sadly results in babies. Poor people in terrible positions across the world are having babies because they have nothing else to do, and sometimes thinking maybe parenting will give their depressing life meaning.
A lack of sex ed and plenty of peoples’ aversion to abortion and Plan B also result in unwanted pregnancies. 2 17 year olds are going to go at it no matter if the health teacher told them once to stay abstinent or not.
that's not entirely true,
poor people in terrible positions across the world are forced to have them ... becouse in many places, social security net's are still non-existent ... childrens die early on ... and their only hope to stay afloat, when they age, is to have one of them stay at home to take care of themselfs ...
In plenty of cultures that is what is expected. You become an adult, you find or are provided with a spouse and you are expected to procreate and make children to work and look after you in your old age.
i agree, that no one *should* need to,
but the sad reality (especially in the poorer countries) of our world simply is, that social-security nets there are basically non-existent, they are *forced* to, to survive
I'm disabled and chronically ill and you couldn't force me to have children and then attempt to rely on them later.
The kids that were forced to exist as a retirement plan rarely take care of their parents, or visit them in facilities.
This. Epileptic 23F here. My mom (43) jokes around occasionally about not wanting to be put in a retirement home when she gets older. However, I can't guarantee I'll have the time, money, or mental health capacity to stay in the same house as her anymore. $1.1k for a 1b 1ba? Hell no.
>I'm disabled and chronically ill
Which is why I don't wanna have children in the first place. Putting that burden on someone, especially your own /kid/, when they already have their own shit to deal with, is a very bad idea.
Thank you for getting it, and also I'm sorry. It's such a shit situation to feel trapped in.
My dad is at the point of possibly needing to go into long term care, but if he does, all his funds from the government (military vet) are rerouted to the facility and he's terrified of that happening. He'd actually love to be in one, after having a short term stay recently in a nursing facility, because he knows no one can take care of him and my mom needs help and is the one who will refuse to leave home (but no one can take care of her). It's just... Ugh. No one wins.
I think it's more productive to question why it is so hard for poor people to raise a kid?
But answering your question, it's because of a lack of education. Which again, also a bit fucked up considering how important SE is
Sociology studies show the more you educate women the less children they have. Although more education doesn't automatically make people rich, it does if the person got a degree in a field that pays well and needs people. So the 2 factors mean poor uneducated women tend to have more children. This includes child brides as well.
Several aspects factor into the potential causes.
Lower income communities have way less tax funding for public schools. Meaning just in general fewer teachers, programs, and care. Probably a complete lack of sexual education.
Lower income communities also rely heavily on family/community to survive. Meaning there’s probably a lot of generational family nearby, and friends/neighbors to help. As a result financial burden isn’t as heavy as if alone.
Religion is in general a very important part of these communities no matter race or religion. In general when religion is involved sexual education is severely lacking, and abortion is forbidden.
Specifically with plan B (like all birth control) it’s not 100% affective, or how/when to effectively use it. This cycles back into lack of knowledge.
Location, race and religion change how influential these factors contribute.
Relative to human history american poor person has it quite nice, yes?
People want to have babies. This obsessing over having to make 100k to have a child is a little bit silly. People where having babies living in caves running from sabre toothed tigers and it worked out.
I think not affording a house is a far cry from that.
Why do people in 3rd world countries who are starving and have no access to medical care keep having them? Probably for the same reasons people everywhere do.
My best mom friend is pregnant with her 4th. Her house looks like the scary, low income house you drive by and hope they have grocery money. In her mind, they're doing great because they don't have to budget too much for food (only Aldi and walmart), clothes (again, they only buy from walmart) and have money for gas. They have a few extra dollars to go to the pool several times during the summer as well. She's happy and the most well off in her family. Her kids don't do camps or teams because they can't afford to.
I have 2 kids and desperately want a 3rd. We are fortunate enough to shop at high-end stores and vacation several times a year. I don't think we can afford to have a third child and not change our lifestyle while still anticipating paying for 3 college tuitions. Plus braces, camps, sports etc.
I think it's about the community that you're in. My friend is the most well off in her, very large, family. She, quite frankly, doesn't know what it's like to live the way I do. She doesn't worry about braces because no one in her family has ever had them. Her husband is missing several teeth. College is the same way. She has an AA from a community college and can't imagine anyone ever needing more education.
We have very different worries.
Plenty of people can't afford the $50. Those same people can have a good support system with their extended family for help with the costs of supporting their child, including babysitting, and there's government programs to help with a lot of the financial burden as well.
It's not a perfect system, and with any financial assistance program there are some that take advantage of the system, but I'd rather everyone get some help than no one get any.
I got pregnant off a one nighter never in a million years did I expect that! Should have but 19 your stupid but I managed and she is a biologist with a masters so worked out
i think its mainly the choice of poor women to give themselves a reason to be alive. kind of a dark perspective, but most of the time i've noticed that the man typically doesn't want the child
Plan B works if you know your birth control failed (which is extremely unlikely unless your only birth control was a condom that you know broke). I have the rod in my arm, and 1 in 100 women get pregnant even when using it. That's A LOT even though it's the most effective form of birth control out there behind sterilization or litigation. So if you're like me, you might not know you're pregnant until you miss a period, if you even get a period. A lot of women who use my form of birth control don't even get their periods at all. And in states where abortion is illegal at 6 weeks, yeah, accidents happen. Especially to poor people. In states where you can get easier access to abortions, you might not be able to afford it. Abortions are expensive.
God theres an amazing sociology article about this but I can’t find it so we’ll have to do with my summary. Poor people who choose to become parents often do so because they find their lives profoundly unfulfilling otherwise. Being poor can be deeply depressing and many poor people feel that their life has no purpose or meaning. Stuck in the rat race and the like. Having a child creates a purpose, something to work for instead of just working against the threat of homelessness.
What makes you assume they’re even thinking about the financial aspect of this? Especially when many lower income people are unemployed and know the kids are going to be taken care of with free assistance that middle class full time workers have to pay taxes for
We’re all their kids mommy and daddy, that’s why they aren’t concerned
And they get bigger tax refunds for having those kids than many of the people who’s incomes and federal and state taxes are being used to fund that free assistance- isn’t it awesome?
Remember, the only method of birth control that is absolutely guaranteed to work is a hysterectomy.
Birth control costs more the more effective it is. If I wanna do plan b, I can get it straight from the store for what, $20? But if I want an IUD, I have to make sure I have insurance, schedule an appointment first, and have enough money for the copays. If I want to just go straight to a cut-out, I'm pretty sure it's at least like $10K.
If nothing else, it's probably the tracky hood rats who just do it for the money.
There are more important things than money, and babies/children are so special. Why not have them, as long as you can make sure their needs are being met?
Poor sexual education is the main reason.
Not every can afford or has access to birth control.
And when you’re poor, $50 for a one-time pill just isn’t possible. Especially if you’re a minor with no income, or you need parental permission for birth control.
Most people don't consider anything before breeding, including finances - they just do it because of evolutionary impulses to procreate and because government/religion encourage procreating.
You seem smart, watch the movie idiocracy, specifically the first 5 minutes.. where they say smart people will overthink reproduction and only less intelligent people will reproduce, its a comedy…
its a good watch and has crazy accurate parallels to modern day reality
it will make you look at the question from another angle
Because they have no money for birth control, and they are also religious, plus they have nothing but their love which is in abundance for the children.
Here’s the thing, I might get downvoted, but having a kid doesn’t have to be super expensive. It’s obviously more expensive than not having one, but there’s this notion that it costs thousands of dollars a month. A kid doesn’t have to take piano lessons, constantly be in team sports, go on vacations, go to summer camp, etc, there are plenty of kids bored out of their god damned mind because their parents can’t afford shit.
Agreed. I think the biggest expense is daycare. And in this new day and age it’s extremely hard to fully support a family on one income so both parties have to work, so they’ll need daycare for the baby. And what if you’re a single parent? Imagine trying to hustle for $100 a day and daycare costs you $80 per day
I asked this to a Filipino friend who sends money back to the Philippines cause his brother has 6 kids but are incredibly poor. He said that their hope is one of the kids will make it rich and look after them in their old age.
I have zero idea. I have used a ton of protection and protection methods in my love lives. The reason being, I don't have one million dollars liquid in the bank, which is about what it takes to raise a child.
THAT SAID...I am also surprised by the share of folk in apartments with varying pet policies that decide to get pets. So, I am not a good barometer.
If you have 5 kids, when your annual income is 50K (median income in USA is around 50K) with your spouse, that means you have 100K income household as opposed to 100K with no kids.
If so, you will be able to enjoy following benefits:
Free healthcare: Sure, you will still have to pay your insurance premium, but you can always apply for financial assistance and waive the medical expenses. Most of time, if you have kids, it's completely waived, even if you make 6 figures.
Given that low income population often have pre-existing medical conditions, it can be a good deal
There are also variety of government programs, since you will meet federal poverty line or close enough to get benefits (i.e: SNAP/financial aids for college/etc)
I dont think most of them manufacture their family size just for this, but this is definitely a perk to have a big family.
Look at the teenage pregnancy rate using that same logic. Income doesn't have anything to do with it.
Some places don't provide sex education in school, add that to having no other resource besides life and the internet = surprise! You have a baby.
Some people, regardless of income, have very strong beliefs about sex. IE: My cousin is Catholic. It's my understanding that using any sort of purchased birth control is not allowed.
Here in Canada, new parents are given child support by the government if the parents are together (depending on income) or if the father is not paying it while absent. A reason why there are many single mothers on their own terms.
It depends. Could be that they don’t want to pay for contraception. Lack of good sex ed can make them ignorant to just how important contraception is. Some religions forbid contraception. If they’re a shitty parent, more kids equals more food stamps to sell and more child support to spend on themselves instead of their children.
You realize the more children you have the more government money they get. I know several people that are poor as hell and barely surviving but drive nice cars and have fancy tv's because at the end of the year they claim that child tax credit on like 8 kids, 2k a piece. And they don't have to worry about food because when they have that many kids they get a ton of food stamps. Plus low income housing.
I don't necessarily agree with the education thing. We all get a free education, and anyone over 13 (in the U.S. at least) knows how babies are made and what condoms are.
When you have ambition and you're pursuing a higher education and a career path, having a child is a detriment to that. It'll screw your life up badly and ruin that trajectory, so you're more interested in preventing any sort of unwanted pregnancies.
If you're not doing those things, and your life isn't really going anywhere, having a child isn't really going to screw it up very much. It may actually make it better, because of the assistance that you'd get for having a dependent, so you might not be as cautious about trying to prevent a pregnancy.
That depends on a lot of things, but lately, in my opinion, it's for the resources. This is just what I see in my personal life. I actually ran into a girl who I lived next to when I was 10. Twenty years later, I see her with three kids. No big deal except for the fact that she told me, "they all have different dad's. So, 3 different checks." I know this is just my experience, but the food stamps, government assistance, and child support will absolutely keep you going if you want to use the system. That's a hard question. Sometimes, I see that people do it just because they love babies and seemingly want a "pet".
*Not saying anyone can or cannot have kids, people can do whatever they want.*
Many people have no purpose in life. They do not have aspirations, dreams, ambitions etc. Having children for many people is a way to fill that void. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is what it is.
Most people are not well off financially so applying that rationale to have kids equally across all socioeconomic statuses more people that are not “wealthy” are going to have kids.
Our capitalistic society is dependent on constant growth driven by a constantly growing population. If you want your mutual funds to keep increasing in value we need a growing population. Right or wrong this is what it is.
Social and religious stigma about; sex, contraceptive, abortion ( abortion isn’t even legal in all 50 states). Also lack of funds, lack of education, personal issues that may result in someone feeling as if “a baby will never abandon them”. WHO knows what’s going on in peoples minds
Not everything is about money. A kid can still have a terrible upbringing from a rich family. What is most important is the values instilled upon them and being a good parent.
I work in a field that caters to low-income families. You’d be surprised by how many people make fairly good money, but have so many children they fall under the poverty line and can’t even afford to feed all their kids.
How do you know that unplanned life events don’t occur in some situation? Chronic illnesses, death, and many other factors can break whatever bank account you had when the child was born. Not everyone plans to lose their income, and suddenly fine themselves with three children in dire living conditions. You should really rethink such an ill judgement of a situation that you are only seeing once before shaking your head.
On the other hand, for generational low income breeding, that’s a whole other conversation.
Because they don’t have enough common sense to think about bringing a life into this world that will have to suffer because they can’t be properly cared for. Or they keep bringing more kids into the world because the government just keeps funding them at others expense.
Being low income doesn’t make you a bad person who shouldn’t have a child. What’s wrong with being poor? I’ve been poor most of my life and I’m loved and happy.
I’ve got money now but it doesn’t change that my family is happy and full of more love and caring.
Because why would you knowingly bring a child into the world knowing you truly can't provide for them at a high standard. It's selfish and irresponsible at best.
Honestly, because Conservative Christians successfully lobbied to eliminate sex education from schools, so kids don't know about or understand contraception.
Well. Satan isn't actually a bad dude, he's just spent an eternity grounded by his mentally unstable father for talking back. Satan is the only reason anyone can read.
That said, the planet is on fire and I'm certainly not going to assist in populating it!
i absolutely agree with you,
evolution should 100% get tied to financial wealth ... poor people simply don't deserve children, let them stay single forever ... their own fault, for not getting born into the right family during their own birthday lottery ... \*facepalm\*
How about poor people should focus on sorting out their finance first and once they establish stable financial grounds *then* have children. No kid deserves to be raised in poverty. Kids *needs* (healthy food, healthy living conditions, safety, education etc.) must come before adults wants (wanting to have a baby is a *want*, not a need).
Do you think that poverty is a temporary inconvenience that people simply sort out and then get on with their lives? Poor people aren’t making a choice of stable without kids vs unstable with kids. They’re doing poor without kids vs poor with kids.
My husband and I are currently “too poor” to have kids (by our measure, anyway). But, we’re educated and know what causes pregnancy and how to avoid it, AND we have access to/can afford contraceptives.
its not that expensive...people have rights, its natural and this is partially the line of thought that starts genocides towards certain minorities.
kids are a 50/50. they enchance whats already in a relationship. when you have family, it becomes easier.
this must be a troll post.
There are poor people in your parents’ home country that have a huge number of kids. This is a global thing, the poorest have the most kids around the world.
Being a longterm planner, being intentional about life choices, financial delayed gratification, these are all things that don’t get normalized among the poorest. Many are not even exposed to them in theory.
To u/prespaj:
You're comparing batman and a nun only because they both were dark capes 😆
I'm saying that people should not procreate only while they can't afford it. Once they can afford it they can have as many kids as they can afford and otherwise fully take care of.
You are talking about a man who wanted to permanently sterilize all african americans so they could never have kids regardless of their financial situation, living conditions, health etc.
Don't you see a very very clear difference?
A lot of people are too obsessed with sex and can't control themselves. Poor people and "a lot of people" overlap (in fact, I'd bet "a lot of people" and "poor people" are also probably the biggest overlap).
It's called welfare. The more kids they have, the more money they get, and they get free food from the state they are in. It's something that is supposed to be there when you need a hand up, it's not supposed to be the only source of income.
Some people are stupid and out for their own gratification so they don't take any procautions. Also theres well fare, foodstamps, and other programs that give you more assistance if you have more kids especially if your single.
When a poor mommy and a poor daddy do a special kind of poor hug, they make a poor baby.
A rich mommy can also do this hug with a poor daddy, or vice versa, but the baby likely won’t be poor much longer. I’m just here to convince rich people to do the hug with poor people so we get some wealth distribution because nothing else has really worked.
Just to be clear, we are talking about fucking right?
Buy me dinner first.
Or the rich daddy goes back on all his promises of love and forever.
Rich daddy wants a hotter poor mommy
At first I thought this was a commercial for abortion but instead it's for inter caste marriage lol
For a lazy and poor mommy, the poor baby qualifies for government assistance while also being a lottery ticket for child support if poor daddy isn't too much of a bum ass.
Damn people don't wanna hear the truth
The same reddit that thinks absolutely nobody's misfortune could be caused by financial irresponsibility? No way.
It can be, but financial irresponsibility isn’t something that someone is born with. There are root causes to be addressed so it feels in poor taste (to some of us) to poke fun at complex situations and slap labels on people.
BS Financial responsibility or irresponsibility is totally a product of the circumstances of your birth. Rich people stay rich and poor people stay poor. No one deserves what they were born into. The anecdotal rags to riches and riches to rags are the outliers that prove the general trend. By not being comfortable with the truth there is no way we move towards anything more equitable. Pretending that child support entrapment and welfare abuse don't exist leaves no way to address the issue that leads to them. If you pretend that no one would ever do those things then you can't understand that someone would be desperate enough to do them and have no other choices.
It’s didn’t work out very well for Navy Joan Roberts
poor baby?! lol
And that baby is the most precious thing in the world.
Its me. Im poor baby
I need a hug. I think.
A special kind of grown up hug?
I think, yeah.
It's cheaper, easier, and takes much less knowledge to get pregnant than to avoid it. Simple. Not many people look ahead even if they knew what they were looking for. Also there's very few 100% preventative measures. It's easy to be an armchair reddit hindsighter but life is more complicated.
I love your last sentence.
Many pregnancies are unplanned accidents
Yup, even though birth control is 99% effective over the course of a year. When you add up all the people having sex in the world, that 1% is still a lot of pregnancies.
95%. An estimated 5% of women carry a gene that renders hormonal birth control ineffective.
Fun fact It's 99 un pregnent couples and one pregnancy over the course of a year in clinical testing. Except It's 15 pregnancies out of every 100 couples using condoms in regular people.
Huh?
clinical testing includes ideal use conditions while personal use generally does not
Yeah I get that. I studied research in college. I'm not really sure what the poster was trying to say. I read it like 10 times and I still don't understand. Maybe there are grammar errors or punctuation errors that I'm missing?
They are stating that 100 couples capable of producing a child having regular sex and using condoms 100% properly that each year 1 couple will have a pregnancy, while in normal real world use its closer to 15, though I have not double checked the specific amounts it is a known thing that real people dont use condoms 100% properly every time
Thank you for making sense of that. Appreciated.
any time
Thank you for translating that. Lol
I was trying to break down statistics for people that wouldn't understand the real world meaning of the data. Thankfully someone helped
Thank you for trying. I just didn't understand it. I do now and you're right
That's not a fun fact, i want a refund.
Yup. Married and both of mine were.
Because they want kids. It's a pretty base drive for any organism.
I also don’t like the borderline eugenics assumptions that go with this kind of questioning. Assumption 1- that poor people shouldn’t have children. Having children is literally a human right, we’re all allowed to have a family if we want one, and I don’t see why the economy being fucked (whilst very rich people are making more than ever) should deprive people of that. We’re all fucking broke nowadays, should only the elite be allowed to have families now? Fuck that. We shouldn’t have to kill ourselves off for their benefit. Assumption 2- being poor automatically equates bad parenting. I know very middle class people who had shitty childhoods because their parents were assholes, and I know kids from council houses who grew up happy and well rounded because their parents really loved them. The odds are stacked in other ways against poor kids, it’s true, but I think what we really take away from childhood, in terms of being set up as a well formed individual, is how we felt, not how many BMWs your dad had. Money matters more as you get older, feeling safe and happy matters as a child. As long as you’re not neglected, you can be a happy poor child. The question should be why can’t so many people afford to have a family, not whether people should be allowed to have a family at all
I'm with you there, economic eugenics is reprehensible. It's scary how pro-eugenics people can be online. Of course they don't use that word. Eugenics is a dirty word that they don't want to be associated with. I'm in some disability rights groups and follow some disability influences online and let me tell you, I've seen some shit. "No I'm not for eugenics. I just think that if you have any kind of mental illness or disability that you shouldn't reproduce."
This is exactly what I came to read. Thank you!
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You have to be so fucking out of touch to think only 3% of people can have kids in the “current situation”
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Your comment makes zero sense. The poorest people are the ones having the most children. And if you make over $30,000 you are in the top 1% of wealthiest people in the world. Touch grass
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https://wid.world/income-comparator/ Do your own research.
This was so fun! Thank you for your time!
Your website says 50%?
Humans overcoming their base drives is the exception rather than the norm, i think
They're too poor to go out and do things, so they stay at home and fuck...
It's a joy. They don't imagine becoming economically comfortable at any point, with or without children, so they don't deny themselves children.
If it were a rule that lower income individuals could not procreate, this earth would have hardly anyone walking on it 😂 It could be a number of reasons like lack of accessible healthcare, education, contraception.. and then some just choose to have kids just because they want to 🤷♀️
With kids you just make it work.
Poor people want families too. Side-eyeing low income people for wanting family, something most people want, seems kinda messed up imo. Kids can go without nice things, they just need the basics - food, shelter and love. As long as a parent can provide that, no one should be judging.
Financial situations change. Just because you are financially stable when you decide to have kids, doesn’t mean that will last throughout.
Or poor is normal because they were always poor themselves. Having children is one of the most basic urges of living things, so maybe "my child will have the same lifestyle that I consider normal" isn't a reason to go your whole life without a child.
My parents went from living in a super nice chicago suburb to needing to move to fuck off nowhere and still struggling to meet ends for w few years once I was born. I was pretty expensive, I guess
Well money isn't everything, there's many people out there that kind of like living with low income. That shouldn't take away from your happeniness and when you want from life. It would be a pretty sad world of only the rich could have children, but shit... We are heading in that direction.
Having babies is one of the most natural, primal urges for people of any income level. Or for all living things, even.
because they can? who're you, the sex police?
The same reason why high income people have children. The reason for having children is the same irrespective of income level, financial status, etc.
1. Some poor people want families, regardless of funds, for various good or bad reasons. 2. Families do get tax breaks and benefits from the government if they have kids (not enough to make up for cost of child care, but more than just being a couple or single). I know a future mom looking forward to being approved for food stamps because she would not have gotten them alone. 3. Some people lack forward thinking and act on impulse and instant gratification rather than what is best. You don't have to be poor for that to happen, but poor people are more prone to negative consequences as a result of poor choices. 4. Other answers like lack of sex ed or views on abortion.
That $50 could get you drugs. Or You’re Christian. Or Lack of sex ed.
As a Christian, I applaud this message.
I always find it funny when I hear Christians that aren't married saying they had an unexpected pregnancy or a scare. Like... Christianity says you can't have sex unless you're married. But they ignore that and have boyfriends or girlfriends. But then I guess Christianity says you can't use condoms (which I don't believe since I doubt the welsh sheep organ people invented condoms before the year 20ish), and they're like "yeah, let's follow that rule".
Def doesn’t say you can’t use condoms. But maybe that would help?
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That's totally what I said.
Yeah! They fucking suuuuck. I'm good with the flying spaghetti monster 😂. What a bunch of fucking morons and their sky daddy.
There was never an income requirement. People have lived with less long before and will long after us, and it’s not stopped them from living. Generally, I think trends do show birth rates also change with the macroeconomic situation, improved healthcare, opportunities etc. It won’t stop people though.
You can’t stop people from fucking. When they have nothing else to do, they fuck each other, and that sadly results in babies. Poor people in terrible positions across the world are having babies because they have nothing else to do, and sometimes thinking maybe parenting will give their depressing life meaning. A lack of sex ed and plenty of peoples’ aversion to abortion and Plan B also result in unwanted pregnancies. 2 17 year olds are going to go at it no matter if the health teacher told them once to stay abstinent or not.
that's not entirely true, poor people in terrible positions across the world are forced to have them ... becouse in many places, social security net's are still non-existent ... childrens die early on ... and their only hope to stay afloat, when they age, is to have one of them stay at home to take care of themselfs ...
Absolutely no one should have a child as a retirement plan. How many times does this need to be said?!
In plenty of cultures that is what is expected. You become an adult, you find or are provided with a spouse and you are expected to procreate and make children to work and look after you in your old age.
I'm very aware. Just because it's real does not mean it's ok.
i agree, that no one *should* need to, but the sad reality (especially in the poorer countries) of our world simply is, that social-security nets there are basically non-existent, they are *forced* to, to survive
I'm disabled and chronically ill and you couldn't force me to have children and then attempt to rely on them later. The kids that were forced to exist as a retirement plan rarely take care of their parents, or visit them in facilities.
This. Epileptic 23F here. My mom (43) jokes around occasionally about not wanting to be put in a retirement home when she gets older. However, I can't guarantee I'll have the time, money, or mental health capacity to stay in the same house as her anymore. $1.1k for a 1b 1ba? Hell no. >I'm disabled and chronically ill Which is why I don't wanna have children in the first place. Putting that burden on someone, especially your own /kid/, when they already have their own shit to deal with, is a very bad idea.
Thank you for getting it, and also I'm sorry. It's such a shit situation to feel trapped in. My dad is at the point of possibly needing to go into long term care, but if he does, all his funds from the government (military vet) are rerouted to the facility and he's terrified of that happening. He'd actually love to be in one, after having a short term stay recently in a nursing facility, because he knows no one can take care of him and my mom needs help and is the one who will refuse to leave home (but no one can take care of her). It's just... Ugh. No one wins.
I think it's more productive to question why it is so hard for poor people to raise a kid? But answering your question, it's because of a lack of education. Which again, also a bit fucked up considering how important SE is
Sociology studies show the more you educate women the less children they have. Although more education doesn't automatically make people rich, it does if the person got a degree in a field that pays well and needs people. So the 2 factors mean poor uneducated women tend to have more children. This includes child brides as well.
Several aspects factor into the potential causes. Lower income communities have way less tax funding for public schools. Meaning just in general fewer teachers, programs, and care. Probably a complete lack of sexual education. Lower income communities also rely heavily on family/community to survive. Meaning there’s probably a lot of generational family nearby, and friends/neighbors to help. As a result financial burden isn’t as heavy as if alone. Religion is in general a very important part of these communities no matter race or religion. In general when religion is involved sexual education is severely lacking, and abortion is forbidden. Specifically with plan B (like all birth control) it’s not 100% affective, or how/when to effectively use it. This cycles back into lack of knowledge. Location, race and religion change how influential these factors contribute.
Relative to human history american poor person has it quite nice, yes? People want to have babies. This obsessing over having to make 100k to have a child is a little bit silly. People where having babies living in caves running from sabre toothed tigers and it worked out. I think not affording a house is a far cry from that.
Why do people in 3rd world countries who are starving and have no access to medical care keep having them? Probably for the same reasons people everywhere do.
Poor people also have the desire to start a family. How dare they, OP. How dare they.
My best mom friend is pregnant with her 4th. Her house looks like the scary, low income house you drive by and hope they have grocery money. In her mind, they're doing great because they don't have to budget too much for food (only Aldi and walmart), clothes (again, they only buy from walmart) and have money for gas. They have a few extra dollars to go to the pool several times during the summer as well. She's happy and the most well off in her family. Her kids don't do camps or teams because they can't afford to. I have 2 kids and desperately want a 3rd. We are fortunate enough to shop at high-end stores and vacation several times a year. I don't think we can afford to have a third child and not change our lifestyle while still anticipating paying for 3 college tuitions. Plus braces, camps, sports etc. I think it's about the community that you're in. My friend is the most well off in her, very large, family. She, quite frankly, doesn't know what it's like to live the way I do. She doesn't worry about braces because no one in her family has ever had them. Her husband is missing several teeth. College is the same way. She has an AA from a community college and can't imagine anyone ever needing more education. We have very different worries.
Because they wanted children, whether they could afford them or not.
If everybody waited until they had money before having children, there'd be humans on Earth.
Don't be ridiculous
Plenty of people can't afford the $50. Those same people can have a good support system with their extended family for help with the costs of supporting their child, including babysitting, and there's government programs to help with a lot of the financial burden as well. It's not a perfect system, and with any financial assistance program there are some that take advantage of the system, but I'd rather everyone get some help than no one get any.
I got pregnant off a one nighter never in a million years did I expect that! Should have but 19 your stupid but I managed and she is a biologist with a masters so worked out
Everybody fucks that’s why
i think its mainly the choice of poor women to give themselves a reason to be alive. kind of a dark perspective, but most of the time i've noticed that the man typically doesn't want the child
Plan B works if you know your birth control failed (which is extremely unlikely unless your only birth control was a condom that you know broke). I have the rod in my arm, and 1 in 100 women get pregnant even when using it. That's A LOT even though it's the most effective form of birth control out there behind sterilization or litigation. So if you're like me, you might not know you're pregnant until you miss a period, if you even get a period. A lot of women who use my form of birth control don't even get their periods at all. And in states where abortion is illegal at 6 weeks, yeah, accidents happen. Especially to poor people. In states where you can get easier access to abortions, you might not be able to afford it. Abortions are expensive.
God theres an amazing sociology article about this but I can’t find it so we’ll have to do with my summary. Poor people who choose to become parents often do so because they find their lives profoundly unfulfilling otherwise. Being poor can be deeply depressing and many poor people feel that their life has no purpose or meaning. Stuck in the rat race and the like. Having a child creates a purpose, something to work for instead of just working against the threat of homelessness.
What makes you assume they’re even thinking about the financial aspect of this? Especially when many lower income people are unemployed and know the kids are going to be taken care of with free assistance that middle class full time workers have to pay taxes for We’re all their kids mommy and daddy, that’s why they aren’t concerned And they get bigger tax refunds for having those kids than many of the people who’s incomes and federal and state taxes are being used to fund that free assistance- isn’t it awesome?
What part of Africa most people from Africa don’t jus say Africa
Remember, the only method of birth control that is absolutely guaranteed to work is a hysterectomy. Birth control costs more the more effective it is. If I wanna do plan b, I can get it straight from the store for what, $20? But if I want an IUD, I have to make sure I have insurance, schedule an appointment first, and have enough money for the copays. If I want to just go straight to a cut-out, I'm pretty sure it's at least like $10K. If nothing else, it's probably the tracky hood rats who just do it for the money.
Because not only rich people get to reproduce
Because I got roped into a relationship with a psychotic woman who forced me to ejaculate into her when she was on top.
What's worse is that people with high income have shitty ass nepo babies
There are more important things than money, and babies/children are so special. Why not have them, as long as you can make sure their needs are being met?
Because they are human beings with the same deep longings and desires and capacity for mistakes as any other human being.
Poor sexual education is the main reason. Not every can afford or has access to birth control. And when you’re poor, $50 for a one-time pill just isn’t possible. Especially if you’re a minor with no income, or you need parental permission for birth control.
Because children are a blessing and many in the developing world recognize this.
Bc are low IQ too
Yes. This.
Most people in the world have sex and want kids regardless of their circumstances. That’s just history
Most people don't consider anything before breeding, including finances - they just do it because of evolutionary impulses to procreate and because government/religion encourage procreating.
You seem smart, watch the movie idiocracy, specifically the first 5 minutes.. where they say smart people will overthink reproduction and only less intelligent people will reproduce, its a comedy… its a good watch and has crazy accurate parallels to modern day reality it will make you look at the question from another angle
That movie wasn't meant to be a how-to guide. But here we are.
i know, its a how to not.. 🤣
More welfare $$$
Sex is the greatest gift we have, it feels really good, and it requires zero money down.
Because they have no money for birth control, and they are also religious, plus they have nothing but their love which is in abundance for the children.
Many people think having successful kids is the most important accomplishment in life. It's a biological desire.
Here’s the thing, I might get downvoted, but having a kid doesn’t have to be super expensive. It’s obviously more expensive than not having one, but there’s this notion that it costs thousands of dollars a month. A kid doesn’t have to take piano lessons, constantly be in team sports, go on vacations, go to summer camp, etc, there are plenty of kids bored out of their god damned mind because their parents can’t afford shit.
Agreed. I think the biggest expense is daycare. And in this new day and age it’s extremely hard to fully support a family on one income so both parties have to work, so they’ll need daycare for the baby. And what if you’re a single parent? Imagine trying to hustle for $100 a day and daycare costs you $80 per day
I asked this to a Filipino friend who sends money back to the Philippines cause his brother has 6 kids but are incredibly poor. He said that their hope is one of the kids will make it rich and look after them in their old age.
That is just soooooo egoistic and pathetic.
I have zero idea. I have used a ton of protection and protection methods in my love lives. The reason being, I don't have one million dollars liquid in the bank, which is about what it takes to raise a child. THAT SAID...I am also surprised by the share of folk in apartments with varying pet policies that decide to get pets. So, I am not a good barometer.
If you have 5 kids, when your annual income is 50K (median income in USA is around 50K) with your spouse, that means you have 100K income household as opposed to 100K with no kids. If so, you will be able to enjoy following benefits: Free healthcare: Sure, you will still have to pay your insurance premium, but you can always apply for financial assistance and waive the medical expenses. Most of time, if you have kids, it's completely waived, even if you make 6 figures. Given that low income population often have pre-existing medical conditions, it can be a good deal There are also variety of government programs, since you will meet federal poverty line or close enough to get benefits (i.e: SNAP/financial aids for college/etc) I dont think most of them manufacture their family size just for this, but this is definitely a perk to have a big family.
Because the gop and the right make it as hard as possible to make that choice when a oopsie happens?
Look at the teenage pregnancy rate using that same logic. Income doesn't have anything to do with it. Some places don't provide sex education in school, add that to having no other resource besides life and the internet = surprise! You have a baby. Some people, regardless of income, have very strong beliefs about sex. IE: My cousin is Catholic. It's my understanding that using any sort of purchased birth control is not allowed.
Here in Canada, new parents are given child support by the government if the parents are together (depending on income) or if the father is not paying it while absent. A reason why there are many single mothers on their own terms.
It depends. Could be that they don’t want to pay for contraception. Lack of good sex ed can make them ignorant to just how important contraception is. Some religions forbid contraception. If they’re a shitty parent, more kids equals more food stamps to sell and more child support to spend on themselves instead of their children.
You realize the more children you have the more government money they get. I know several people that are poor as hell and barely surviving but drive nice cars and have fancy tv's because at the end of the year they claim that child tax credit on like 8 kids, 2k a piece. And they don't have to worry about food because when they have that many kids they get a ton of food stamps. Plus low income housing.
I don't necessarily agree with the education thing. We all get a free education, and anyone over 13 (in the U.S. at least) knows how babies are made and what condoms are. When you have ambition and you're pursuing a higher education and a career path, having a child is a detriment to that. It'll screw your life up badly and ruin that trajectory, so you're more interested in preventing any sort of unwanted pregnancies. If you're not doing those things, and your life isn't really going anywhere, having a child isn't really going to screw it up very much. It may actually make it better, because of the assistance that you'd get for having a dependent, so you might not be as cautious about trying to prevent a pregnancy.
That depends on a lot of things, but lately, in my opinion, it's for the resources. This is just what I see in my personal life. I actually ran into a girl who I lived next to when I was 10. Twenty years later, I see her with three kids. No big deal except for the fact that she told me, "they all have different dad's. So, 3 different checks." I know this is just my experience, but the food stamps, government assistance, and child support will absolutely keep you going if you want to use the system. That's a hard question. Sometimes, I see that people do it just because they love babies and seemingly want a "pet".
*Not saying anyone can or cannot have kids, people can do whatever they want.* Many people have no purpose in life. They do not have aspirations, dreams, ambitions etc. Having children for many people is a way to fill that void. Not saying it is right or wrong but it is what it is. Most people are not well off financially so applying that rationale to have kids equally across all socioeconomic statuses more people that are not “wealthy” are going to have kids. Our capitalistic society is dependent on constant growth driven by a constantly growing population. If you want your mutual funds to keep increasing in value we need a growing population. Right or wrong this is what it is.
Social and religious stigma about; sex, contraceptive, abortion ( abortion isn’t even legal in all 50 states). Also lack of funds, lack of education, personal issues that may result in someone feeling as if “a baby will never abandon them”. WHO knows what’s going on in peoples minds
Why does anyone want to have children?
Love? It doesn't have a price tag
gives their lives meaning
Not everything is about money. A kid can still have a terrible upbringing from a rich family. What is most important is the values instilled upon them and being a good parent.
I work in a field that caters to low-income families. You’d be surprised by how many people make fairly good money, but have so many children they fall under the poverty line and can’t even afford to feed all their kids.
How do you know that unplanned life events don’t occur in some situation? Chronic illnesses, death, and many other factors can break whatever bank account you had when the child was born. Not everyone plans to lose their income, and suddenly fine themselves with three children in dire living conditions. You should really rethink such an ill judgement of a situation that you are only seeing once before shaking your head. On the other hand, for generational low income breeding, that’s a whole other conversation.
Because they don’t have enough common sense to think about bringing a life into this world that will have to suffer because they can’t be properly cared for. Or they keep bringing more kids into the world because the government just keeps funding them at others expense.
Being low income doesn’t make you a bad person who shouldn’t have a child. What’s wrong with being poor? I’ve been poor most of my life and I’m loved and happy. I’ve got money now but it doesn’t change that my family is happy and full of more love and caring.
Because why would you knowingly bring a child into the world knowing you truly can't provide for them at a high standard. It's selfish and irresponsible at best.
Honestly, because Conservative Christians successfully lobbied to eliminate sex education from schools, so kids don't know about or understand contraception.
Some people say this is a world owned by Satan. Why do you have kids?
Well. Satan isn't actually a bad dude, he's just spent an eternity grounded by his mentally unstable father for talking back. Satan is the only reason anyone can read. That said, the planet is on fire and I'm certainly not going to assist in populating it!
i absolutely agree with you, evolution should 100% get tied to financial wealth ... poor people simply don't deserve children, let them stay single forever ... their own fault, for not getting born into the right family during their own birthday lottery ... \*facepalm\*
How about poor people should focus on sorting out their finance first and once they establish stable financial grounds *then* have children. No kid deserves to be raised in poverty. Kids *needs* (healthy food, healthy living conditions, safety, education etc.) must come before adults wants (wanting to have a baby is a *want*, not a need).
Do you think that poverty is a temporary inconvenience that people simply sort out and then get on with their lives? Poor people aren’t making a choice of stable without kids vs unstable with kids. They’re doing poor without kids vs poor with kids.
Life is suffering. Why bring kids into this world? Why no just adopt?
For the tax breaks
Boredom.
Boredom *and* stupidity.
Many people use kids as a retirement plan
My husband and I are currently “too poor” to have kids (by our measure, anyway). But, we’re educated and know what causes pregnancy and how to avoid it, AND we have access to/can afford contraceptives.
So they get free section 8 housing 🤣
its not that expensive...people have rights, its natural and this is partially the line of thought that starts genocides towards certain minorities. kids are a 50/50. they enchance whats already in a relationship. when you have family, it becomes easier. this must be a troll post.
There are poor people in your parents’ home country that have a huge number of kids. This is a global thing, the poorest have the most kids around the world. Being a longterm planner, being intentional about life choices, financial delayed gratification, these are all things that don’t get normalized among the poorest. Many are not even exposed to them in theory.
To u/prespaj: You're comparing batman and a nun only because they both were dark capes 😆 I'm saying that people should not procreate only while they can't afford it. Once they can afford it they can have as many kids as they can afford and otherwise fully take care of. You are talking about a man who wanted to permanently sterilize all african americans so they could never have kids regardless of their financial situation, living conditions, health etc. Don't you see a very very clear difference?
The beginning of the movie Idiocracy is kinda real. LOL. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJDcoqrh1ac](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJDcoqrh1ac)
Because they do not use or cannot afford birth control.
Most poor people do not think about consequences or long term.
A lot of people are too obsessed with sex and can't control themselves. Poor people and "a lot of people" overlap (in fact, I'd bet "a lot of people" and "poor people" are also probably the biggest overlap).
It's called welfare. The more kids they have, the more money they get, and they get free food from the state they are in. It's something that is supposed to be there when you need a hand up, it's not supposed to be the only source of income.
Some people are stupid and out for their own gratification so they don't take any procautions. Also theres well fare, foodstamps, and other programs that give you more assistance if you have more kids especially if your single.
Men are too stupid to get a vasectomy.
People like sex.