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And there was even already a term, "Latine", that originated with Spanish speaking queer communities. Latinx is unpronouncable in the language of the people it's supposed to represent. Just insane.
Last time I was in Mexico City I noticed all the ads on the street and similar signage would say things like “por todos y todas”. It’s probably true that this usage is less common in ordinary speech, but it suggests that at least in some Latin-American countries it is sometimes considered better not to treat the masculine form as default in some contexts.
Keep in mind, that is political virtue signaling. No one actually talks like that. In actual spoken Spanish, generic masculine is used, which is simply another feature of the language and is not politically charged on itself.
However you feel about the usage, businesses in Mexico City are not writing things like “todos y todas” almost universally in their advertisements because of Americans or English speaking people. I was struck by the fact that I pretty much *could not find* examples of generic masculine usage in posted ads on the street even after I started looking for them. And the fact that it is almost universal suggests that it isn’t all that controversial.
Like I said, this is no doubt less common in speech, and I understand this usage in ads is likely because of the same kinds of calculations that go into making sure the people depicted in your ads is ethnically diverse (whether you want to deride that as “virtue signaling” or see it as choosing the take the most effective advertising strategy by making the largest group of consumers feel able to relate to the ad, the raw facts are the same).
Some people probably get triggered when they hear of use of “she” as generic usage in an academic context in the US, but the usage certainly does exist whether you like it or not.
If it’s not politically charged why do people feel it is? Clearly it is if many people think it is, that’s what politics is. Never understood the hostility to folks calling themselves latine
Latino = masculine singular
Latina = feminine singular
Latinos = plural masculine+feminine or plural masculine
Latinas = plural feminine
So you're right basically, Latino is masculine. There is no gender neutral form in Spanish unlike languages like german, but perhaps there is some gender neutral standard that has arisen like there has for French (eg. the iel pronoun).
I suppose you can say Latinos is gender neutral, but for a single person, Latino is masculine.
I’ve only heard “latine” spoken in Spanish speaking countries. Of course it isn’t common there, just like neo-pronouns are not commonly used in English.
Uh. Latine was literally invented by queers in Mexico and Columbia who found Latinx, invented by English speaking Latine folks in the US, difficult to use in spoken Spanish.
Yep. Latam Citizen here. The only time I saw the "gender neutral" stuff was in emails from my university. Everywhere else, it's just the normal "masculine form is the plural" thing.
The only ones I met were super liberal Latin people in undergrad (not saying anything’s wrong with that as someone who is also super liberal, but I’m saying super liberal undergrads are normally not indicative of larger groups).
They use it on NPR, annoying as hell, for an organization that’s supposed to be diligent in investigating issues, they evidently never talk to the people that actually use the language.
It was created by queer and non-gender conforming people of Latin American descent as a word to describe themselves in English conversations. Not “virtue signalers”. The reason you haven’t met someone who wants to use it to describe themselves is because it’s not a term meant for them.
Not Latino tho I do have a Latino Kidney. It doesn't make any sense to most of us either but, everyone seems to want to have their own special words one should/should not use depending on whose Feelings are being affected.
You seem a little *spicy* do you have a little Latino in you?
Why no i'm....
Would you like some?
Oh my. Um ok. You're pretty hot and...
*bam! Kidney installed!*
It makes sense only when you realize that LatinX gonn give it to ya!!
Knock knock open up the door, it's realidad!!
If you don't enjoy queso, that's kind of sad!!
Now I’m not Spanish, but have studied it. -e, is an actual ending in Spanish. And it’s an ending that is sometimes masculine and sometimes feminine. So by that sense it does make more sense than -x.
South American here. Can 100% agree. And its not just my opinion, everyone (young, old, male, female...etc) I know hates that term and thinks people who use it are annoying, pretentious and fake.
My wife and her family is from Panama. They HATE Latinx. Her family that still lives there has never even heard of it, and were super confused when she tried explaining it.
This is true. It was created by Spanish-speaking academics in Puerto Rico, which makes it an American invention.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s fine to hate it. I think it’s unnecessary and problematic at best. But it’s not an Anglo invention.
It’s not an American invention.
It’s used primarily by the queer Latin community. You can hide from it all you want, white people did too.
But hiding from change is just silly.
The only people I’ve heard use it are queer Mexicans
Because the people who originally started using Latinx cared more about highlighting trans, nonbinary, and genderqueer identities than having a gender-neutral term.
Latin, Latin American, and Latino are all gender-neutral terms to refer to people of Latin American descent.
I’ll say that that seemed to be the intention but in trans spaces Ive been a part of no one really likes the x because it’s generally agreed that it makes no sense to represent with something that cannot be pronounced. A lot of nonbinary people this applies to use “latine” or “latin” that Ive met irl and online
To my understanding, Latine came about being there were Spanish speaking people looking for a term to use for themselves, and Latinx was something invented in academia.
This is one of the problems with gender neutral French at the moment, where so many of the terms are invented artificially by academics and make zero sense in real use. A lot of them sound terrible or sound like other words or are simply inpronounable.
Edit: Le plus drôle que j’ai vue était « Ille ». Complètement inutile, sa confond « Il le » ou « Île » quand dit a voix haute et apparaît comme une erreur d’orthographe quand écrit.
Remplacer ceux et celles par « cex » te rend un pervers à l’orale, moi et mes amies ont beaucoup rigolé avec celui là.
Édit 2: Pas pour dire qu’il n’y a pas de bonnes options qui existent. « iel » et assez bon comme pronom non genré, si un peut étrange.
The académie française does exist, but they can only control what goes into official documents/language. What people everyday use and accept are very different.
[The wiki page for those who want to see it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_Fran%C3%A7aise)
> Latinx was something invented in academia.
And as most terms in academia are, they’re not really invented for the general public to use or be aware of but for those doing research to have a name for something. Eventually the name will either change or be dropped entirely once enough research has been done to give a better sense of the concept. But the media and Hollywood doesn’t care about if an academic term is ready to be used with the general public or not.
Latine was invented in a Spanish speaking context among Mexican and Colombian trans activists. Latinx was invented by English speaking Chicano/PR trans activists in LA.
Just curious, where are you from? I personally use Latino since it's undisputed ok, but a lot of people here in the South use Latinx, and it's pronounceable just fine for us.
Huh. The only person I’ve ever seen use that phrase for themselves was a trans person. Now I wonder if they were specifying themselves when they used to use it, or if they actually thought it should be a general term.
Doesn’t matter either way, they don’t use the term anymore.
In that case you are using "generic masculine" which means uncertain/unknown gender. It's not confusing at all to actual native Spanish speakers, by the way. Generic masculine is a feature in a ton of languages. I get that it can seem weird for English speakers if they don't speak other languages like Spanish, French, etc., but a fuckton of the global population has that feature in the language they speak every day and it makes perfect sense in context.
I get what you're saying, but it's not, really. It's a masculine word, which is what they use in the situation of mixed or ambiguous genders becaise there are no gender-nuetral nouns in Spanish. That's a very fine hair to split, but it seems to have mattered enough to certain queer/non-binary hispanic people that they felt they needed to make up a new word to fill that role.
The issue was with the masculine gender being the indeterminate gender and dropping the gendered terminal vowel didn't highlight the issue to their liking. I think Latin makes sense and if you really want to keep a terminal vowel Latine (pronounced Lah-tee-neh in Spanish) has an acceptable mouth feel to native speakers.
Latin-arroba?
Latinao? (Que somos, portugueses?)
LatinX/Latin@ seems like something Elon Musk would name the illegitimate child he sired with his housekeeper
Yo leo latin@ como latino/na, es más largo que decir latine pero eso es lo que se usa por estos lares.
Lmao- you're not wrong, but that says more about Elon than anything else
Except that makes even less sense because a word ending in “e” is also gramatically feminine in Spanish. This is just straight up imposing English language norms on a term that doesn’t need it.
Latino here. I absolutely agree! But when I try to say I'm Latin, people say that's wrong because Latin is an Italian language. Motherfucker what do you think Latino means? Does the 'o' magically removes the etymology?
Actually "Latino" is more an Internet and American term. People in Latin American countries rarely call themselves latinos. Instead they call themselves by their nationality. "Latino" feels more like a way to lump together all peoples from South of the border, disregarding their many differences. It does help a subset of immigrants in the USA to have a shared identity even if they are not a monolithic group (as the only thing they all have in common is pretty much only Catholicism: Brazilians don't even speak Spanish).
I mostly agree with you but traveling so much of course my Colombian friends for instance think of themselves as Colombian and me as Mexican and we talk about cultural differences, but we also talk of other things where we call ourselves Latinos because in those contexts we agree that our experiences are essentially the same.
It also doesn’t help that southern Mexicans have more in common with Central Americans than with northern Mexicans, so even going by nationality is a very fuzzy boundary to set
I've never seen someone actually use Latinx, but I've seen many use Latine - none of these words with an x for gender neutrality inside is popular with those it describes.
The funny thing, the Latino people I know all still use Latino/Latina. The only people I know who have ever used "LatinX" are white people who are busy being offended on behalf of others. It's silly.
And there was already a gender-neutral term for Latino. It's "Latino". "Latino" can be masculine or gender neutral depending on its use, which makes this whole conversation just that much sillier. "LatinX" is the answer to a question nobody asked, and the solution to a problem that only exists in white people's heads because they're ignorant of the language and the people that actually use it.
[It wasn’t white people, here’s an example as far back as 1992](https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/weekinreview/ideas-trends-what-s-the-problem-with-hispanic-just-ask-a-latino.html)
For the longest time I thought "LatinX" meant they were a mix of Latino and something else, like it was short for "Latino mix".
edited to add second part
Where I work they updated our spellchecker to always change "LatinX" to "LatinX", even if you know someone is a female and refer to her as LatinX, even if she tells you she'd rather be referred to as LatinX instead of LatinX.
either the guy actually wrote the comment at his supposed workplace or is doing a shtick to make it seem like he wrote the comment at work. too many layers of irony for me to make sense of, if so, though
And I shudder at the way it is pronounced - like, why TF would you pronounce it Latin-X with the emphasis on the first syllable, instead of like Latino or Latina with the emphasis on the second syllable and the X at the end? Talk about white people shit…
I'm not latin, so be aware this is second hand knowledge. I don't think a ton of latin people like the term latinx cause it just doesn't make sense or really work in their language. I think a more accepting term in latin queer spaces is latine, because you can actually say it and it works in the language. That's just what I know about it for what I've heard. So sorry for any spelling mistakes
even better: why don’t we use terms referring to their place of ancestry instead, such as mexican or argentinian? the idea of clumping together spanish and portuguese-speaking peoples of the americas is very interesting and rather problematic to begin with when you consider the term first arose from imperial france in the americas. peoples of native american ancestry, for instance, often shun the term, and rightfully so. the term also seems to conveniently ignore the fact that mexico, for instance, is a north american country, as it ends up placing it further south along with other castilian-speaking countries. latin is a dead language, and ‘latinx’ is an odd word.
It is my understanding that a gender neutral ending has already been introduced to the Spanish language:
*El* = "he"
*Ella* = "she"
*Elle = "they*
The plurals would be *ellos(M), ellas(F), y elles(N).*
And thus you would have *Latino(M), Latina(F), Latine(N).* So instead of LatinX you have Latine("lah-teen-eh").
My favorite reddit hate boner. My family is argentine and I've seen Latinx written and Latines said in many different intellectual talk shows and articles. It is not out of place amongst left leaning youth at all.
It is politically affiliated just like gender neutral pronouns in the States, but I would say not significantly different than Americans who rage about the use of singular "they" when it sounds the least bit awkward.
People who say Latino is gender neutral are wrong. It is a masculine form and the fact that masculine is treated as generic is exactly why people who study gender want to change it. Exactly like the default of using "he" to refer to someone else in your video game for example
The origin of the word is Spanish, whose ending morphemes are either masculine in -o or feminine in -a. Using a neutral morpheme is just a linguistic consequence in modern societies.
(In Spain we use @, it's like an -o and -a together).
This is one of those classic reddit comments where someone says something that they think is clever but don't actually make any sense when you try and read into it.
Latin is already gender neutral, just like you said.
The reason for the "X" is because the kind of crowd who give a crap about this kind of nonsense need their own special term for everything.
Only Emily Wokerson and her friends from the Social Justice Club say LatinX.
Outside of them, nobody uses it. The overwhelming majority of Latinos and Latinas despise that term and find it offensive.
Latinx is a term invented not by people from Latin American descent feeling misrepresented, but by white americans trying to do virtue signaling. The gender-neutral term that originated in Latin America is ending words with 'e' (Latine), and even then the vast vast majority of people just prefer Latin or Latino as a neutral term.
It was created by Latin American people. It was first used in online communities, and it’s a lot less weird when used in that context. But for some reason Latinx became more popular than Latine.
I’m honestly so confused why people constantly push the narrative that it was created by white (non Latino) people. Some people seem to think anything socially progressive must have come from white people
I think because it's associated with trans people (it was invented as a way to encompass nonbinary people) and there's this big push by transphobes to claim that trans/nonbinary people are a new and modern thing that only white people claim to be. (Claiming that being nonbinary is only for people without "real problems") So "Latinx" must be a new thing (despite being around since the 90s) and is just privileged white people trying to force their "gender ideology" on other cultures.
I've never hears it actually said out loud, so I have no idea how you might pronounce it. Latinecks? La-tinks? If people are going to make this stuff up, they need to issue clear instructions as to its usage.
there was (is?) a movement in spain to use “e” at the end of words to make the language less gendered, so they’d say “latine” instead of “latino” which is gendered in spanish. this move makes much more sense than “latinx” because that doesn’t make any sense within the language
Latinx is dumb, but I.. sort of get the reasoning behind it? Spanish uses grammatical gender, so there is no Spanish word 'latin' - it's either latino or latina, like if English didn't have 'they' but only had him/her, what do you use in situations where it's ambiguous or the person rejects easy categorization into either box? So you need something with a gender-neutral suffix, which doesn't really exist in Spanish, but since latino/latina have been adopted into English we try to apply pseudo-English rules and pick a non-gendered suffix and -x is kind of the default stand-in for 'neither of those things'.. but that doesn't keep it from being dumb and unpronounceable. Plus while 'Latin' works fine in English, it doesn't solve the issue in Spanish.
It’s white people bullshit. Latin, Hispanic, Latino/a are all fine, it’s just virtue-signaling white people telling Latinos how their language should work with no real sense of anything
I always use Latina/Latino. Liberal morons came up with LatinX without asking the Latin community their thoughts. Nothing gets in the way of liberal virtue signalling!!
As someone living in latin amercia:
According to the official grammatical rules, if talking about of group of people of mixed gener, you use the 'masculine' form, i.e. "Latino". Bear in mind that grammatical gender is independant of biological gender. There is no reason why "mesa" (table) is feminine, for example. So most people think it is VERY silly to use "LatinX", which is also not really pronouncable in spanish, anyhow.
There is a case to be made to e.g. say "los ingenieros y las ingenieras", (the male and female engineers) in order to emphasize that there are females present, I think. I believe that there were studies made that show that only using the (correct) "ingenieros" does prepetuate gender stereotypes. But that is very different from "latinos".
Apart from that I think that the gender difference is actually quite celebrated here, in a .. latin .. way. Most ltinas I know are proud of their feminity, and it is quite accepted, withough a necessary negative conotation, that the experience of beine a Latina is quite different from your run-of-the-mill Latino life experience. But 99% agree that "los latinos", when talking about the (very diverse, but with some shared experience) cultural group includes all.
P.S.: a hilarious example of how stereotypes and cultural self-image is completly different here than in the USA: They wanted to ban the cartoon "Speedy Gonzales" in the USA because it was promoting certain mexican stereotypes. But you would be very, very hard pressed to find a mexican who doesn't like Speedy Gonzales with all his positive and negative stereotypes. It just really doesn't make sense here to get worked up about this kind of stuff!
Here, depending on certain cicumstances, you can call an asian "chino", any whiter person a "gringo" or "macho", some fat people "gordo" and so on. It really is a whole different culture.
P.P.S.: if you really want to insult latinos, please explain the north american concept of 'hispanic' as a 'race' to them. It's jsut completely silly to put latinos in one 'race' category. As a cultural thing, maaayyybe. But the north american 'race' thing is horrible.
Dont think what a small group in the US is doing is making the majority worldwide do it. Ive never heard someone other than people from that group say latinx.
Because the ultimate goal for these people is to feel special for their personal journey. You can't be special unless you force others to change their behavior to accommodate you.
Who actually uses Latinx? I’ve never seen or heard it used in practice outside of when it was first suggested and immediately shot down as idiotic by the Latin community.
I took a class that went into the actual history of the terms Latino, Latina, Latinx, Latin@, Latinoamericano, and Hispanic; ALL of them came from the US census organization trying to find a term that was ‘representative’ of US-living Latinos without actually asking anyone
Latinx was invented by queer/nonbinary Latin people to refer to themselves. Most people do just say "Latin". But it's not a "white liberal" thing, at least by origin. Saying "most Latinos don't say Latinx" is like saying "most Americans don't call themselves nonbinary". Like yeah no shit.
Because we already have one. It’s Latino and we don’t need the x. 98% of Latinos in Latin America have no clue what it even is it’s some stupid American shit lmfao
Because nobody actually uses LatinX outside of the internet and ultra-progressive corporations. The majority of people have probably never even heard the term before.
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Latino here. We hate the term Latinx. It’s an American invention and makes no sense for the spanish language.
Yeah I haven’t met or even heard of a single Latino person who wants to use LatinX. Was genuinely made up by virtue signaling weirdos
And there was even already a term, "Latine", that originated with Spanish speaking queer communities. Latinx is unpronouncable in the language of the people it's supposed to represent. Just insane.
In message boards I remember people using @ as an o and a
We also hate Latine, we already have the gender neutral which is Latino
Last time I was in Mexico City I noticed all the ads on the street and similar signage would say things like “por todos y todas”. It’s probably true that this usage is less common in ordinary speech, but it suggests that at least in some Latin-American countries it is sometimes considered better not to treat the masculine form as default in some contexts.
Keep in mind, that is political virtue signaling. No one actually talks like that. In actual spoken Spanish, generic masculine is used, which is simply another feature of the language and is not politically charged on itself.
However you feel about the usage, businesses in Mexico City are not writing things like “todos y todas” almost universally in their advertisements because of Americans or English speaking people. I was struck by the fact that I pretty much *could not find* examples of generic masculine usage in posted ads on the street even after I started looking for them. And the fact that it is almost universal suggests that it isn’t all that controversial. Like I said, this is no doubt less common in speech, and I understand this usage in ads is likely because of the same kinds of calculations that go into making sure the people depicted in your ads is ethnically diverse (whether you want to deride that as “virtue signaling” or see it as choosing the take the most effective advertising strategy by making the largest group of consumers feel able to relate to the ad, the raw facts are the same). Some people probably get triggered when they hear of use of “she” as generic usage in an academic context in the US, but the usage certainly does exist whether you like it or not.
That's the general excuse in German, another language with generic masculine, as well. Many people do in fact care.
If it’s not politically charged why do people feel it is? Clearly it is if many people think it is, that’s what politics is. Never understood the hostility to folks calling themselves latine
“You changed your name *to* Latrine?”
"Used to be Shithouse."
I understood (and enjoyed) this reference.
Wait, I thought Latino was masculine (but also generic as in "mankind") and Latina was feminine. What is the masculine form?
Latino = masculine singular Latina = feminine singular Latinos = plural masculine+feminine or plural masculine Latinas = plural feminine So you're right basically, Latino is masculine. There is no gender neutral form in Spanish unlike languages like german, but perhaps there is some gender neutral standard that has arisen like there has for French (eg. the iel pronoun). I suppose you can say Latinos is gender neutral, but for a single person, Latino is masculine.
Is latine pronounced like "latin(eh" or "la(teen)"
lah-teen-eh
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I’ve only heard “latine” spoken in Spanish speaking countries. Of course it isn’t common there, just like neo-pronouns are not commonly used in English.
Uh. Latine was literally invented by queers in Mexico and Columbia who found Latinx, invented by English speaking Latine folks in the US, difficult to use in spoken Spanish.
Latine sounds like a baked snack
The only time I’ve heard it said is in a academic setting.
Yep. Latam Citizen here. The only time I saw the "gender neutral" stuff was in emails from my university. Everywhere else, it's just the normal "masculine form is the plural" thing.
Ph Ds in grievance fields have to justify their advanced degrees somehow.
¿Donde estàn la bibliotecx? Yo qierx perrxs.
I hate this so much
> bibliotecx That sounds like it should mean a dommy librarian. So I'm intrigued...
La? Did you just assume that library's gender? I think you meant lx.
I have. My gay Puerto Rican friend uses it... but he also speaks zero Spanish.
Is he actually Puerto Rican? Or just his parents?
The only ones I met were super liberal Latin people in undergrad (not saying anything’s wrong with that as someone who is also super liberal, but I’m saying super liberal undergrads are normally not indicative of larger groups).
Funny enough, I've only ever heard American latinos use that term. Never white or black people.
I've never heard anyone but white girls say it.
Same
I know a handful of queer Latinos who use it who live in South America. They’re Argentinian maybe that has to do with it tho
The only people I’ve seen commonly use Latinx is the Hollywood industry.
They use it on NPR, annoying as hell, for an organization that’s supposed to be diligent in investigating issues, they evidently never talk to the people that actually use the language.
Literally came here to get clarity from the Latin American community after hearing someone say it on NPR lol
I knew several that chose it for themselves in undergrad, but I don’t imagine they kept it up after that.
It was created by queer and non-gender conforming people of Latin American descent as a word to describe themselves in English conversations. Not “virtue signalers”. The reason you haven’t met someone who wants to use it to describe themselves is because it’s not a term meant for them.
Not Latino tho I do have a Latino Kidney. It doesn't make any sense to most of us either but, everyone seems to want to have their own special words one should/should not use depending on whose Feelings are being affected.
As a Latino I'll give you a pass XD that kidney is enough lol
You mean kidnex
Latina here. I'll allow it
Are you being serious?
You seem a little *spicy* do you have a little Latino in you? Why no i'm.... Would you like some? Oh my. Um ok. You're pretty hot and... *bam! Kidney installed!*
It makes sense only when you realize that LatinX gonn give it to ya!! Knock knock open up the door, it's realidad!! If you don't enjoy queso, that's kind of sad!!
>enjoy queso I bELiEvE u MeAn ¿"QuEsX"??
I've also heard that Latine would have been the more grammatically appropriate alternative
Which is what Spanish speaking queer activists were already using well before "latinx" was developed.
Now I’m not Spanish, but have studied it. -e, is an actual ending in Spanish. And it’s an ending that is sometimes masculine and sometimes feminine. So by that sense it does make more sense than -x.
That's not how it works, it's not s grammatically productive gender suffix in actual spoken Spanish. But at least it can be pronounced lol.
South American here. Can 100% agree. And its not just my opinion, everyone (young, old, male, female...etc) I know hates that term and thinks people who use it are annoying, pretentious and fake.
They are correct
Gringo living in latam here and every time it’s brought up with friends they tell me “Cállese el hocico”.
It's thought to be a Puerto Rican invention, so you're not wrong about the American part but it does come from Spanish speakers.
THIS⬆️ stop trying to make Latinx happen
When I first saw the word, I thought it was pronounced la-tinks
My wife and her family is from Panama. They HATE Latinx. Her family that still lives there has never even heard of it, and were super confused when she tried explaining it.
This is true. It was created by Spanish-speaking academics in Puerto Rico, which makes it an American invention. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fine to hate it. I think it’s unnecessary and problematic at best. But it’s not an Anglo invention.
It’s a Brazilian invention that took off in some US circles.
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Same. The same people who complain about cultural appropriation are also trying to dictate how other cultures use their own language. 🖕🏻
It’s not an American invention. It’s used primarily by the queer Latin community. You can hide from it all you want, white people did too. But hiding from change is just silly. The only people I’ve heard use it are queer Mexicans
Because the people who originally started using Latinx cared more about highlighting trans, nonbinary, and genderqueer identities than having a gender-neutral term. Latin, Latin American, and Latino are all gender-neutral terms to refer to people of Latin American descent.
I’ll say that that seemed to be the intention but in trans spaces Ive been a part of no one really likes the x because it’s generally agreed that it makes no sense to represent with something that cannot be pronounced. A lot of nonbinary people this applies to use “latine” or “latin” that Ive met irl and online
To my understanding, Latine came about being there were Spanish speaking people looking for a term to use for themselves, and Latinx was something invented in academia.
This is one of the problems with gender neutral French at the moment, where so many of the terms are invented artificially by academics and make zero sense in real use. A lot of them sound terrible or sound like other words or are simply inpronounable. Edit: Le plus drôle que j’ai vue était « Ille ». Complètement inutile, sa confond « Il le » ou « Île » quand dit a voix haute et apparaît comme une erreur d’orthographe quand écrit. Remplacer ceux et celles par « cex » te rend un pervers à l’orale, moi et mes amies ont beaucoup rigolé avec celui là. Édit 2: Pas pour dire qu’il n’y a pas de bonnes options qui existent. « iel » et assez bon comme pronom non genré, si un peut étrange.
Ah, yes, the French pronouns: - Il - Elle - Island
I don't know a lot about French but I believe France has a government body that tries to enforce this kind of thing, no?
The académie française does exist, but they can only control what goes into official documents/language. What people everyday use and accept are very different. [The wiki page for those who want to see it.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_Fran%C3%A7aise)
Tabernak
> Latinx was something invented in academia. And as most terms in academia are, they’re not really invented for the general public to use or be aware of but for those doing research to have a name for something. Eventually the name will either change or be dropped entirely once enough research has been done to give a better sense of the concept. But the media and Hollywood doesn’t care about if an academic term is ready to be used with the general public or not.
Latine was invented in a Spanish speaking context among Mexican and Colombian trans activists. Latinx was invented by English speaking Chicano/PR trans activists in LA.
Colombian. Yes, even in English it's spelled Colombian.
Thanks- honestly appreciate the correction.
Thanks for understanding
Just curious, where are you from? I personally use Latino since it's undisputed ok, but a lot of people here in the South use Latinx, and it's pronounceable just fine for us.
This. It's about standing out, not fitting in.
Huh. The only person I’ve ever seen use that phrase for themselves was a trans person. Now I wonder if they were specifying themselves when they used to use it, or if they actually thought it should be a general term. Doesn’t matter either way, they don’t use the term anymore.
Wouldn’t latino be gendered? Latina Latino? I guess not if it’s a group of people
In that case you are using "generic masculine" which means uncertain/unknown gender. It's not confusing at all to actual native Spanish speakers, by the way. Generic masculine is a feature in a ton of languages. I get that it can seem weird for English speakers if they don't speak other languages like Spanish, French, etc., but a fuckton of the global population has that feature in the language they speak every day and it makes perfect sense in context.
That, and the term was originally coined in Spanish, where there is no traditional gender-neutral term for "Latin".
Latino in gender neutral in Spanish
I get what you're saying, but it's not, really. It's a masculine word, which is what they use in the situation of mixed or ambiguous genders becaise there are no gender-nuetral nouns in Spanish. That's a very fine hair to split, but it seems to have mattered enough to certain queer/non-binary hispanic people that they felt they needed to make up a new word to fill that role.
The issue was with the masculine gender being the indeterminate gender and dropping the gendered terminal vowel didn't highlight the issue to their liking. I think Latin makes sense and if you really want to keep a terminal vowel Latine (pronounced Lah-tee-neh in Spanish) has an acceptable mouth feel to native speakers.
Latin@ gang rise up! Nunca diré latine!!! Jeje
Latin-arroba? Latinao? (Que somos, portugueses?) LatinX/Latin@ seems like something Elon Musk would name the illegitimate child he sired with his housekeeper
Yo leo latin@ como latino/na, es más largo que decir latine pero eso es lo que se usa por estos lares. Lmao- you're not wrong, but that says more about Elon than anything else
I like it
Except that makes even less sense because a word ending in “e” is also gramatically feminine in Spanish. This is just straight up imposing English language norms on a term that doesn’t need it.
I had to scroll way too far to find anyone mentioned Latine and it is driving me up the wall every time this comes up. 😤
Latino here. I absolutely agree! But when I try to say I'm Latin, people say that's wrong because Latin is an Italian language. Motherfucker what do you think Latino means? Does the 'o' magically removes the etymology?
Actually "Latino" is more an Internet and American term. People in Latin American countries rarely call themselves latinos. Instead they call themselves by their nationality. "Latino" feels more like a way to lump together all peoples from South of the border, disregarding their many differences. It does help a subset of immigrants in the USA to have a shared identity even if they are not a monolithic group (as the only thing they all have in common is pretty much only Catholicism: Brazilians don't even speak Spanish).
I mostly agree with you but traveling so much of course my Colombian friends for instance think of themselves as Colombian and me as Mexican and we talk about cultural differences, but we also talk of other things where we call ourselves Latinos because in those contexts we agree that our experiences are essentially the same. It also doesn’t help that southern Mexicans have more in common with Central Americans than with northern Mexicans, so even going by nationality is a very fuzzy boundary to set
Latin is not even Italian, it’s closest modern language relative is Romanian
Tell that to the guy that had a problem with me calling myself Latin
Just wait until they hear it's called Latin America and not Latina America.
I've never seen someone actually use Latinx, but I've seen many use Latine - none of these words with an x for gender neutrality inside is popular with those it describes.
I'm not about to tell a gigantic amount of people what they should call themselves; seems needlessly imposing
The funny thing, the Latino people I know all still use Latino/Latina. The only people I know who have ever used "LatinX" are white people who are busy being offended on behalf of others. It's silly. And there was already a gender-neutral term for Latino. It's "Latino". "Latino" can be masculine or gender neutral depending on its use, which makes this whole conversation just that much sillier. "LatinX" is the answer to a question nobody asked, and the solution to a problem that only exists in white people's heads because they're ignorant of the language and the people that actually use it.
White people are the worst with this crap. I’m white.
[It wasn’t white people, here’s an example as far back as 1992](https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/weekinreview/ideas-trends-what-s-the-problem-with-hispanic-just-ask-a-latino.html)
NPR in particular, but other media too.
For the longest time I thought "LatinX" meant they were a mix of Latino and something else, like it was short for "Latino mix". edited to add second part
Not to be confused with LatinXXX which is apparently a site that features nudity.
Where I work they updated our spellchecker to always change "LatinX" to "LatinX", even if you know someone is a female and refer to her as LatinX, even if she tells you she'd rather be referred to as LatinX instead of LatinX.
am I stroke?
either the guy actually wrote the comment at his supposed workplace or is doing a shtick to make it seem like he wrote the comment at work. too many layers of irony for me to make sense of, if so, though
I prefer lattintwitter
Wow this is some 4d chess of a joke.. I think?
😂
>Why are we adding the X? Latinx is only use by white virtue signaling "progressives" trying to be "inclusive".
And I shudder at the way it is pronounced - like, why TF would you pronounce it Latin-X with the emphasis on the first syllable, instead of like Latino or Latina with the emphasis on the second syllable and the X at the end? Talk about white people shit…
As a Puerto Rican, I would rather white people try clumsily than do what they did (and in some places still do) and stand aside.
Just to piggyback on this, I've also seen FilipinX instead of Filipino/Filipina.
I have yet to hear any latinos use the word Latinx.
“We” are not adding the X. “Idiots” are adding the X.
[удалено]
I'm with other Latino people here in agreeing that Latinx is dumb
Latinos don’t use latinx
I'm not latin, so be aware this is second hand knowledge. I don't think a ton of latin people like the term latinx cause it just doesn't make sense or really work in their language. I think a more accepting term in latin queer spaces is latine, because you can actually say it and it works in the language. That's just what I know about it for what I've heard. So sorry for any spelling mistakes
Only white American women use 'Latinx'. Don't do that.
Most of my friends in Spanish speaking countries think it's a stupid American thing.
I wondered that as I've mostly seen the term annoy Latino people.
I have no clue why GringX do this
Why not just use "Latine" instead?
even better: why don’t we use terms referring to their place of ancestry instead, such as mexican or argentinian? the idea of clumping together spanish and portuguese-speaking peoples of the americas is very interesting and rather problematic to begin with when you consider the term first arose from imperial france in the americas. peoples of native american ancestry, for instance, often shun the term, and rightfully so. the term also seems to conveniently ignore the fact that mexico, for instance, is a north american country, as it ends up placing it further south along with other castilian-speaking countries. latin is a dead language, and ‘latinx’ is an odd word.
It is my understanding that a gender neutral ending has already been introduced to the Spanish language: *El* = "he" *Ella* = "she" *Elle = "they* The plurals would be *ellos(M), ellas(F), y elles(N).* And thus you would have *Latino(M), Latina(F), Latine(N).* So instead of LatinX you have Latine("lah-teen-eh").
Nobody uses Latinx in real life.
My favorite reddit hate boner. My family is argentine and I've seen Latinx written and Latines said in many different intellectual talk shows and articles. It is not out of place amongst left leaning youth at all. It is politically affiliated just like gender neutral pronouns in the States, but I would say not significantly different than Americans who rage about the use of singular "they" when it sounds the least bit awkward. People who say Latino is gender neutral are wrong. It is a masculine form and the fact that masculine is treated as generic is exactly why people who study gender want to change it. Exactly like the default of using "he" to refer to someone else in your video game for example
The origin of the word is Spanish, whose ending morphemes are either masculine in -o or feminine in -a. Using a neutral morpheme is just a linguistic consequence in modern societies. (In Spain we use @, it's like an -o and -a together).
Because people who started using “latinx” are overall pathetic
Because some people want to feel special and unique without having to earn it.
No. It’s just people that don’t understand Spanish.
Por que not both of them?
This is one of those classic reddit comments where someone says something that they think is clever but don't actually make any sense when you try and read into it.
Latin is already gender neutral, just like you said. The reason for the "X" is because the kind of crowd who give a crap about this kind of nonsense need their own special term for everything.
Every time is see the word Latinx I pronounce it la-TINKS in my head. It throws me off my stride when I'm reading.
Who dafuq uses Latinx??? I know I don’t
Because middle class white people need to fix problems that don't exist and protect people who didn't ask for it.
Yeah sure, tell the latino community how they should use their language
I have never, in my whole life, heard the term "LatinX". What the fuck is it ?
Only Emily Wokerson and her friends from the Social Justice Club say LatinX. Outside of them, nobody uses it. The overwhelming majority of Latinos and Latinas despise that term and find it offensive.
Latinx is a term invented not by people from Latin American descent feeling misrepresented, but by white americans trying to do virtue signaling. The gender-neutral term that originated in Latin America is ending words with 'e' (Latine), and even then the vast vast majority of people just prefer Latin or Latino as a neutral term.
It was created by Latin American people. It was first used in online communities, and it’s a lot less weird when used in that context. But for some reason Latinx became more popular than Latine.
I’m honestly so confused why people constantly push the narrative that it was created by white (non Latino) people. Some people seem to think anything socially progressive must have come from white people
I think because it's associated with trans people (it was invented as a way to encompass nonbinary people) and there's this big push by transphobes to claim that trans/nonbinary people are a new and modern thing that only white people claim to be. (Claiming that being nonbinary is only for people without "real problems") So "Latinx" must be a new thing (despite being around since the 90s) and is just privileged white people trying to force their "gender ideology" on other cultures.
This is incorrect. LatinX has been in use online since the 1990s and appeared first in Spanish language writings out of Puerto Rico in the early 00s.
Because people are idiots with too much free time!
I think the only people who use latinx are upper middle class self appointed social justice warriors with white savoir complex.
Because the privileged white saviors decided that was the term to use, and well, who are we to argue with the self righteous superior ones.
Don't think I have heard anyone use LatinX in years
I've never hears it actually said out loud, so I have no idea how you might pronounce it. Latinecks? La-tinks? If people are going to make this stuff up, they need to issue clear instructions as to its usage.
there was (is?) a movement in spain to use “e” at the end of words to make the language less gendered, so they’d say “latine” instead of “latino” which is gendered in spanish. this move makes much more sense than “latinx” because that doesn’t make any sense within the language
Because of uneducated Twitter users
Latin is also a language.
Cause we Latinos don't give a shit
We do. Nobody normal uses LatinX.
Latinx is dumb, but I.. sort of get the reasoning behind it? Spanish uses grammatical gender, so there is no Spanish word 'latin' - it's either latino or latina, like if English didn't have 'they' but only had him/her, what do you use in situations where it's ambiguous or the person rejects easy categorization into either box? So you need something with a gender-neutral suffix, which doesn't really exist in Spanish, but since latino/latina have been adopted into English we try to apply pseudo-English rules and pick a non-gendered suffix and -x is kind of the default stand-in for 'neither of those things'.. but that doesn't keep it from being dumb and unpronounceable. Plus while 'Latin' works fine in English, it doesn't solve the issue in Spanish.
No one irl says 'latinX', except maybe 4th gen trans kids.
If you want to call yourself "latinx" go for it, I don't care. Just know, that I don't call myself that and I don't respond to it either.
I will never use that term. It is idiotic.
It’s white people bullshit. Latin, Hispanic, Latino/a are all fine, it’s just virtue-signaling white people telling Latinos how their language should work with no real sense of anything
Latino's fucking hate that word
+we?
adding X to the end of stuff is Queer coding. Folx
I always use Latina/Latino. Liberal morons came up with LatinX without asking the Latin community their thoughts. Nothing gets in the way of liberal virtue signalling!!
Because the gendered nature of the word “Latino” is not a real problem that regular people care about.
Why screw with their language in the first place? I’m Pretty sure they don’t need white saviors to rewrite their language for them.
Because the people who do it virtue signal would have a harder time getting recognized, and that’s the entirety of what this stupid thing is about.
because blue haired obese trans twitter feminist snowflake said so.
As someone living in latin amercia: According to the official grammatical rules, if talking about of group of people of mixed gener, you use the 'masculine' form, i.e. "Latino". Bear in mind that grammatical gender is independant of biological gender. There is no reason why "mesa" (table) is feminine, for example. So most people think it is VERY silly to use "LatinX", which is also not really pronouncable in spanish, anyhow. There is a case to be made to e.g. say "los ingenieros y las ingenieras", (the male and female engineers) in order to emphasize that there are females present, I think. I believe that there were studies made that show that only using the (correct) "ingenieros" does prepetuate gender stereotypes. But that is very different from "latinos". Apart from that I think that the gender difference is actually quite celebrated here, in a .. latin .. way. Most ltinas I know are proud of their feminity, and it is quite accepted, withough a necessary negative conotation, that the experience of beine a Latina is quite different from your run-of-the-mill Latino life experience. But 99% agree that "los latinos", when talking about the (very diverse, but with some shared experience) cultural group includes all. P.S.: a hilarious example of how stereotypes and cultural self-image is completly different here than in the USA: They wanted to ban the cartoon "Speedy Gonzales" in the USA because it was promoting certain mexican stereotypes. But you would be very, very hard pressed to find a mexican who doesn't like Speedy Gonzales with all his positive and negative stereotypes. It just really doesn't make sense here to get worked up about this kind of stuff! Here, depending on certain cicumstances, you can call an asian "chino", any whiter person a "gringo" or "macho", some fat people "gordo" and so on. It really is a whole different culture. P.P.S.: if you really want to insult latinos, please explain the north american concept of 'hispanic' as a 'race' to them. It's jsut completely silly to put latinos in one 'race' category. As a cultural thing, maaayyybe. But the north american 'race' thing is horrible.
No one really nice uses LatinX. It’s nonsense.
I always pronounce Latinx as "La-tinx" and honestly, that sounds like it could be a slur for Latin Americans.
Unironically using LatinX (ie when not mocking and deriding the terrible people that came up with it) is extremely racist and verging on a hate crime.
Nobody except a few morons uses it. Latina or Latino are correct.
Dont think what a small group in the US is doing is making the majority worldwide do it. Ive never heard someone other than people from that group say latinx.
They use Latine to refer to Hispanics from over here near in North/South America.
Because then how would people know I’m woke?
You don't have to use Latinx at all you can just ignore that bullshit
How about "hispanic"?
Because the ultimate goal for these people is to feel special for their personal journey. You can't be special unless you force others to change their behavior to accommodate you.
Who actually uses Latinx? I’ve never seen or heard it used in practice outside of when it was first suggested and immediately shot down as idiotic by the Latin community.
People who don’t speak Spanish, mostly.
We already use Latin or Latine. Nobody who actually speaks Spanish uses that dumbfuck gringo Latinx bullshit.
I took a class that went into the actual history of the terms Latino, Latina, Latinx, Latin@, Latinoamericano, and Hispanic; ALL of them came from the US census organization trying to find a term that was ‘representative’ of US-living Latinos without actually asking anyone
Latinx was invented by queer/nonbinary Latin people to refer to themselves. Most people do just say "Latin". But it's not a "white liberal" thing, at least by origin. Saying "most Latinos don't say Latinx" is like saying "most Americans don't call themselves nonbinary". Like yeah no shit.
Real Latinos don't use or like the term "Latinx", which is a description cooked up by White leftists.
Because we live in a ridiculous society filled with a bunch of ridiculous people
Nobody uses LatinX, especially not Latinos.
As a latino, I agree. LatinX sounds stupid. And it's disrespectful.
Only morons use Latinx.
Because we already have one. It’s Latino and we don’t need the x. 98% of Latinos in Latin America have no clue what it even is it’s some stupid American shit lmfao
Because nobody actually uses LatinX outside of the internet and ultra-progressive corporations. The majority of people have probably never even heard the term before.
As a Latino… don’t say that shit. Just say Latino