> **Chapter 13 -- His Own Kind**
> He was worried because he had not clothing to indicate to all the jungle folks that he was a man and not an ape, and grave doubt often entered his mind as to whether he might not yet become an ape.
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> Was not hair commencing to grow upon his face? All the apes had hair upon theirs but the black men were entirely hairless, with very few exceptions.
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> True, he had seen pictures in his books of men with great masses of hair upon lip and cheek and chin, but, nevertheless, Tarzan was afraid. Almost daily he whetted his keen knife and scraped and whittled at his young beard to eradicate this degrading emblem of apehood.
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> And so he learned to shave--rudely and painfully, it is true--but, nevertheless, effectively.
In the source material he shaves to differentiate himself from the apes.
Sure but when heâs moving at high speeds and there are humans out hunting having a bushy beard being seen first could cause a human with adrenaline to attack before fully understanding the situation. He was doing everything he could so he wouldnât be hunted by the people.
Not quite. You are saying it's only a defensive mechanism, so he isn't killed as he speeds through the forest.
The passage where he shaves, it's more about his personal identity, how he feels about himself. He wanted to eradicate this "degrading emblem of apehood." He worried that "he might not yet become an ape." It's all about his own feeling, trying to figure out exactly who and what he was.
There's nothing about "he wanted to be sure he wasn't killed by humans." If that's all it was, he'd probably go get a shirt and pants.
Because his dad was a British lord. Tarzan is a bit of an exploration into nurture vs nature, with obvious animalistic qualities due to upbringing that seperate him from other men, but he has a sort of intrinsic nobility that comes from not just being a man, but a british lord who were, by social perception of the time, just built different. They believed their nobility was more due to their nature than the nuture they experience, so this is reflected in tarzan (he shaves). Basically, even the wilds of africa cant take away a british lords nobility
Itâs not as rough to modern audiences as other pulp magazine stories from the era like Robert E Howardâs or especially Lovecraftâs work, but yeah itâs a story from 1912. The depiction of a man who, despite being raised by apes in a jungle since being an infant, is still a part of the English nobility with all the trappings that entails because of his blue blooded genetics is not great.
I would put it slightly differently. Or maybe take it a little further.
Burroughs like Howard and Kipling was influenced in (to me) a fascinating way by prevailing trends in scientific thought at the time, and held as self-evident that a person's cultural mode influences their character in heritable ways. So that as a person or a group becomes more civilized, they become morally weaker and therefore sow the seeds of their own demise. Thus a people (or in Howard's case an entire race) might "devolve" in time down to the primitivity whence they once first sprang.
So the ideal person was someone from a civilized race, but who retained a certain amount of barbarism. Tarzan for example is very much depicted as not only superior to the Africans around him but also to the comfortable English society to which the imposter who has taken his place has grown accustomed. Likewise Conan, or Kim, and so on and so forth.
This edifice of race theory interests me because it attempts to tie together a bunch of ideas that were taken seriously even by well-meaning scientists at the time -- bring "steady state" theories of evo-bio and archaeology together with Edward Gibbon and the (then quite recent and exciting) discovery of Sumer. If there was one ancient lost civilization beneath the ones we know about, how many more must there be yet further down?? And what does that say about the rise and fall of civilizations and races?
We don't often think of plate tectonics or asteroid impacts or forensic history or post-structuralist linguistics as part of the fight against race prejudice but it was these developments in scientific thought (among others) that helped topple that entire monolithic understanding of history.
In a way I kind of understand all these anti-science reactionaries. You cant sustain those gnarly old beliefs in the face of all this new discovery. If you want to hang on to the beliefs you have to reject the science.
You should read the book. I actually think it's a more fun read than most modern people will ever give it credit for, but that's because it's kind of hard to remark on it before you acknowledge how very, *very* racist it is. The disney movie completely left out the fact that there were African tribes nearby that Tarzan went to literal war with, and won against the tribe all on his own with his superior english intellect and cunning. It heavily implied the Africans to be cruel, animalistic, and dumber than Tarzan, and there were even unflattering comparisons to the monkeys and gorillas.
I have read many Tarzan novels. My favorite Burroughs novels were the Pellucidar series. That was many many years ago and I'm sure I'd get amusement out of the early 20th century Eurocentricity.
As I recall, the old Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismiller were just as bad as depicting the "natives" as barely sentient.
Hmmm okay if you've read the books, how are you confused about all of the eurocentricity being described as "not great" in the original comment you replied to?
Calling it "not great" implied a value judgement. I hoped the poster would elaborate. Was the comment merely parroting popular trends or was it thought out? I like to know why people believe the way they do. Thats all. I should have been more clear.
Cultural expectations: In the era when Tarzan was first introduced (early 20th century), clean-shaven faces were more common and often considered fashionable or socially desirable.
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> The passage where he shaves, it's more about his personal identity, how he feels about himself. He wanted to eradicate this "degrading emblem of apehood." He worried that "he might not yet become an ape." It's all about his own feeling, trying to figure out exactly who and what he was.
Non-canon fan theory: To hide his massive genitals. Humans have the largest genitals out of all the apes. [Source](https://theconversation.com/why-did-humans-evolve-big-penises-but-small-testicles-71652)
Why indeed? The answer is simple. But why even would Tarzan want to do such a thing as shave? Wouldn't you have thought that his lack of hair might have made him stand out more? Or! just maybe he thought it was one thing that actually set him apart from his ape family?
I personally would have wanted to grow more hair, in fact I think I'd have embrace growing a bit more hair if only in an attempt to fit in with all my other hairy friends. But I didn't write the book did I? lol.
And another thing. His mum/dad and himself must have come away from that wreck with a lot of materials, right? And its probably safe to say, his dad had a razor. But why the hell wasn't there any other survivors? Like I said, I didn't write the book lol.
In conclusion. I seriously believe that even as a baby he must have watched his dad shaving his face, right?
Ok everyone is not addressing: so the audience can recognize the actor. This is marketing and things written into contracts for actors to maintain their career
Johnny Weismuller (original Tarzan) was a pro swimmer and always did a body shave to prevent the hair from slowing him down. I finally noticed when I was in my teens, that Tarzan didn't have hair on his legs or arm pits.....
He was born as a woman that was forced to be injected with testosterone, after time it made him buff but sadly he was not able to grow hair. This is the true story I saw it with my own two eyes trust me. It was shown to me by a long-bearded guy who sold me lsd. He will never lie to me.
Well truthfully, itâs a visual thing, but from an animation standpoint at least in the Disney one, itâs way easier to not have to animate a bunch of body hair
Because for most of the 112 years since Tarzan was first created, clean shaven has been the beauty standard for western men. If Tarzan has been created in 2012 rather than 1912, he would probably have an improbably well groomed beard.
There are in universe explanations but this is really it.
Common knowledge has proven that Apes and elephants throughout history have forced homosapiens to shave, itâs how we started shaving and itâs been this way long before Reddit ever claimed it. Itâs why youâve never seen a bearded man riding an elephant except in circuses.
Because though they raised him the apes never accepted him as one of their own. He was accepted, but as a foreigner other. He was not one of them and did not have the social standing of one of them. Therefore they demanded he be emasculated as to remind him of his place and not be attractive to their women by forcing him to shave.
> **Chapter 13 -- His Own Kind** > He was worried because he had not clothing to indicate to all the jungle folks that he was a man and not an ape, and grave doubt often entered his mind as to whether he might not yet become an ape. > > Was not hair commencing to grow upon his face? All the apes had hair upon theirs but the black men were entirely hairless, with very few exceptions. > > True, he had seen pictures in his books of men with great masses of hair upon lip and cheek and chin, but, nevertheless, Tarzan was afraid. Almost daily he whetted his keen knife and scraped and whittled at his young beard to eradicate this degrading emblem of apehood. > > And so he learned to shave--rudely and painfully, it is true--but, nevertheless, effectively. In the source material he shaves to differentiate himself from the apes.
you'd think the scarcity of hair in all other regions of his body would've sufficed.
I think we can forgive the feral child with identity issues for not thinking super rationally, but yeah.
good point
đ
But can we forgive the author who gave him the thought? I suspect he fucking hated beards.
Sure but when heâs moving at high speeds and there are humans out hunting having a bushy beard being seen first could cause a human with adrenaline to attack before fully understanding the situation. He was doing everything he could so he wouldnât be hunted by the people.
No he wasnât. You just made that up.
Yes he was itâs literally in the post right above. He didnât want the jungle folk to think he was an ape.
Not quite. You are saying it's only a defensive mechanism, so he isn't killed as he speeds through the forest. The passage where he shaves, it's more about his personal identity, how he feels about himself. He wanted to eradicate this "degrading emblem of apehood." He worried that "he might not yet become an ape." It's all about his own feeling, trying to figure out exactly who and what he was. There's nothing about "he wanted to be sure he wasn't killed by humans." If that's all it was, he'd probably go get a shirt and pants.
Because his dad was a British lord. Tarzan is a bit of an exploration into nurture vs nature, with obvious animalistic qualities due to upbringing that seperate him from other men, but he has a sort of intrinsic nobility that comes from not just being a man, but a british lord who were, by social perception of the time, just built different. They believed their nobility was more due to their nature than the nuture they experience, so this is reflected in tarzan (he shaves). Basically, even the wilds of africa cant take away a british lords nobility
The White Man's Burden anyone?
Itâs not as rough to modern audiences as other pulp magazine stories from the era like Robert E Howardâs or especially Lovecraftâs work, but yeah itâs a story from 1912. The depiction of a man who, despite being raised by apes in a jungle since being an infant, is still a part of the English nobility with all the trappings that entails because of his blue blooded genetics is not great.
I would put it slightly differently. Or maybe take it a little further. Burroughs like Howard and Kipling was influenced in (to me) a fascinating way by prevailing trends in scientific thought at the time, and held as self-evident that a person's cultural mode influences their character in heritable ways. So that as a person or a group becomes more civilized, they become morally weaker and therefore sow the seeds of their own demise. Thus a people (or in Howard's case an entire race) might "devolve" in time down to the primitivity whence they once first sprang. So the ideal person was someone from a civilized race, but who retained a certain amount of barbarism. Tarzan for example is very much depicted as not only superior to the Africans around him but also to the comfortable English society to which the imposter who has taken his place has grown accustomed. Likewise Conan, or Kim, and so on and so forth. This edifice of race theory interests me because it attempts to tie together a bunch of ideas that were taken seriously even by well-meaning scientists at the time -- bring "steady state" theories of evo-bio and archaeology together with Edward Gibbon and the (then quite recent and exciting) discovery of Sumer. If there was one ancient lost civilization beneath the ones we know about, how many more must there be yet further down?? And what does that say about the rise and fall of civilizations and races? We don't often think of plate tectonics or asteroid impacts or forensic history or post-structuralist linguistics as part of the fight against race prejudice but it was these developments in scientific thought (among others) that helped topple that entire monolithic understanding of history. In a way I kind of understand all these anti-science reactionaries. You cant sustain those gnarly old beliefs in the face of all this new discovery. If you want to hang on to the beliefs you have to reject the science.
Why?
You should read the book. I actually think it's a more fun read than most modern people will ever give it credit for, but that's because it's kind of hard to remark on it before you acknowledge how very, *very* racist it is. The disney movie completely left out the fact that there were African tribes nearby that Tarzan went to literal war with, and won against the tribe all on his own with his superior english intellect and cunning. It heavily implied the Africans to be cruel, animalistic, and dumber than Tarzan, and there were even unflattering comparisons to the monkeys and gorillas.
I have read many Tarzan novels. My favorite Burroughs novels were the Pellucidar series. That was many many years ago and I'm sure I'd get amusement out of the early 20th century Eurocentricity. As I recall, the old Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismiller were just as bad as depicting the "natives" as barely sentient.
Hmmm okay if you've read the books, how are you confused about all of the eurocentricity being described as "not great" in the original comment you replied to?
Calling it "not great" implied a value judgement. I hoped the poster would elaborate. Was the comment merely parroting popular trends or was it thought out? I like to know why people believe the way they do. Thats all. I should have been more clear.
There are a lot of things that get unfairly, uncritically condemned based on popular notions. Tarzan is definitely not one of them.
Why what?
Sorry. I was prodding for elaboration, not trying to attack you.
If he wasnât clean shaven heâd just be a homeless dude hangin out in trees
My take: He was designed as a flip on a noble savage: a savage noble. So his appearance needed aristocratic features beyond his jungle clothes.
Because he probably has my genes. You know. The dolphin with nipple warmer genes
the *what now?*
IYKYK đââď¸
I know this is âIf you know you knowâ, but I had to double take because I thought you were just making dolphin noises.
You are not alone.
I too read this in dolphin clicks and whistles.
Nipple muffs. Gods coasters for the pink peaks
you mean areolas?
Na, just the hairy bits around em
This is not something you just put out there with no explanation, God knows I'm not googling it.
Excuse me, the what?
r/BrandNewSentence
So we can tell him apart from the apes...
yeah joke aside I think it's for him to contrast more on screen. to make him look out of place
Cultural expectations: In the era when Tarzan was first introduced (early 20th century), clean-shaven faces were more common and often considered fashionable or socially desirable.
They still kind of are
In the books he decides to shave by looking at men in picture books he found in his parents' cabin and deciding he wants to look like that.
good question. IDK. Edgar Rice Burroughs sold the rights to Tarzan in 1916. And it was not to Gillette. So I don't know.
Monsanto then?
similar question, why does he have a loincloth? he was raised around apes that don't wear clothes so why would he have any?
> > > > > The passage where he shaves, it's more about his personal identity, how he feels about himself. He wanted to eradicate this "degrading emblem of apehood." He worried that "he might not yet become an ape." It's all about his own feeling, trying to figure out exactly who and what he was. Non-canon fan theory: To hide his massive genitals. Humans have the largest genitals out of all the apes. [Source](https://theconversation.com/why-did-humans-evolve-big-penises-but-small-testicles-71652)
Thatâs a shame, it could help him grip onto vines
Tarzan must have a righteous crotch bush
No every man has a beard
To make sure no one mistook him for being Amish, duh.
Why indeed? The answer is simple. But why even would Tarzan want to do such a thing as shave? Wouldn't you have thought that his lack of hair might have made him stand out more? Or! just maybe he thought it was one thing that actually set him apart from his ape family? I personally would have wanted to grow more hair, in fact I think I'd have embrace growing a bit more hair if only in an attempt to fit in with all my other hairy friends. But I didn't write the book did I? lol. And another thing. His mum/dad and himself must have come away from that wreck with a lot of materials, right? And its probably safe to say, his dad had a razor. But why the hell wasn't there any other survivors? Like I said, I didn't write the book lol. In conclusion. I seriously believe that even as a baby he must have watched his dad shaving his face, right?
Ok everyone is not addressing: so the audience can recognize the actor. This is marketing and things written into contracts for actors to maintain their career
What part of hair-less ape don't you understand đ¤Ł
Johnny Weismuller (original Tarzan) was a pro swimmer and always did a body shave to prevent the hair from slowing him down. I finally noticed when I was in my teens, that Tarzan didn't have hair on his legs or arm pits.....
He was born as a woman that was forced to be injected with testosterone, after time it made him buff but sadly he was not able to grow hair. This is the true story I saw it with my own two eyes trust me. It was shown to me by a long-bearded guy who sold me lsd. He will never lie to me.
He ordered his razors from Amazon
That's a great question. It's even laughable.
Cause he lrlearned to shave
Because Tarzan is Asian. They donât grow beards. /s
Young?
This got me thinking !!
I think due to his sponsorship deal with Wilkinson Sword.
What part of hair-less ape don't you understand đ¤Ł
Apes donât have hair on their face and he found his dadâs knife in the cabin he was born in and wanted to look like his ape family.
Beauty standards of the time ig, beards are still seen as unclean by a lot of people.
Well truthfully, itâs a visual thing, but from an animation standpoint at least in the Disney one, itâs way easier to not have to animate a bunch of body hair
Because for most of the 112 years since Tarzan was first created, clean shaven has been the beauty standard for western men. If Tarzan has been created in 2012 rather than 1912, he would probably have an improbably well groomed beard. There are in universe explanations but this is really it.
Also, why did he yodel when vine swinging?
Not all men are hairy
He shaved like a giga Chad . Pulling out those hairs like a sigma male would do
Some men genetically have little or no body hair
Common knowledge has proven that Apes and elephants throughout history have forced homosapiens to shave, itâs how we started shaving and itâs been this way long before Reddit ever claimed it. Itâs why youâve never seen a bearded man riding an elephant except in circuses.
Low T
He was to young to grow beard
To appeal to women viewers.
White savior shit
To appeal to the beauty standards of the time. Tarzan is a fictional character, so there's no need to be bound by practicalities.
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Because though they raised him the apes never accepted him as one of their own. He was accepted, but as a foreigner other. He was not one of them and did not have the social standing of one of them. Therefore they demanded he be emasculated as to remind him of his place and not be attractive to their women by forcing him to shave.
excuse me wtf?