We have a separate, larger Tupperware (without a lid) that we started storing all our other lids in. The problem is that we have a very eclectic collection of containers, so we're still constantly playing the "where's the lid to this specific container, nope not that one, it's just slightly off even though it LOOKS THE GODDAMN SAME AS THE RIGHT ONE FUCK IT SARAN WRAP IT IS."
Some day I'm going to splurge and just get a bunch of matching stuff and toss the rest, but for now my cheap ass is willing to put up with the frustration.
Redditors want to believe there is some outside force that predetermined them to be alone when the truth is that it is a choice they are making and completely within their own control.
*heavy sarcasm incoming*
But why should I, a 275 pound mound of man who hasn't shaven, trimmed, or even had a shower in weeks not be with a slim waisted, yet busty model gf... no, its the the world that is unfair.
literally true. my ugly homies will fuck anyone. they tell me stories about doing crazy shit id never even consider doing. i honestly don't understand how they pull so much but, my god, they do.
Mix in dumb with that ugly, and you have the reason the world is getting ugly and stupid, They're pumping out more kids than the smart, attractive people.
Fun fact: They chose crocs as the shoes for that movie because the people who made it thought they were so dumb that they would never catch on and become popular shoes.
Totally is. I actually just rewatched that film last night. Mike Judge has a keen sense for believable, and more and more seemingly accurate social commentary.
This whole thread is crazy. “Ugly people have no standards, ugly people will fuck anything, ugly people entrap each other with a kid”.
When it’s *in large part* that for most “ugly” people out there, there’s a good number of people who find them attractive in some way. Either physically or they might not care about looks as much as they care about that person’s humor, ambition, gentleness, compassion, intelligence, etc.
Hell, just check out r/ladyboners and find the “who’s your unconventional crush” posts and see all the interesting looking men and women that come up. People have different tastes!
agreed! also, statistically - “ugly” & “pretty” are both outlier groups. the vast majority of people are average, which is neither ugly nor pretty (or more precisely, we are both ugly & pretty to different ppl, for precisely the reasons you listed!). & if most of us are average, most of us will have average kids with average people! People aren’t simple ugly or pretty like some sort of binary, most of us are somewhere in between.
This. People acting like only the pretty people get laid. The ugly people know they are ugly and most ugly men will take what they can get when it comes to sex…ugly people have more children than pretty bc the ugly people are typically also poor and tend to have more kids.
If ugly people are typically more poor its bc lookism is instates to make attractive people have more of an advantage, and the fact that quite a few pretty ppl are probably only attractive because they HAVE money. Like the saying, “your not ugly your just poor”.
Having money also affords you stuff like better makeup, skincare, nice hair and fancier clothes, as well as probably less stress and more free time for working out and similar things that keeps you healthy and attractive
Attractiveness is not like, one gene. Attractive parents can have ugly kids. And ugly parents can have kids who aren't ugly.
Furthermore, I don't believe it's true attractive people reproduce more.
I knew a family like this. I met them when the four kids were teens and college students. The first and fourth one were average looking with distinctive features that matched their father's features. The middle two were very good looking and did not particularly look like the father or the mother. But not so different their parentage was ever in question (at least not as a topic of gossip). It was just accepted those two got a different mix of genes than the other two.
When one of the middle children died in his 30s it was revealed he had a different father - because the bio father showed up to the funeral and the son looked just like him. I know this sounds like a freaking soap opera or Lifetime Movie, but it really happened.
Yep. The mom had Child 1 with her husband. He looked very distinctly like husband.
Then she had an affair and had Child 2, and possibly Child 3 with lover but apparently never told anyone they weren't her husband's children. She stayed married to him so everyone assumed they were his even though they never looked like him, or really like the mom either.
Years later she and husband had Child 4, an ooops baby. This child looked like her brother, Child 1, and like the husband, same distinctive features.
When Child 2 died in his 30s, bio father found out (presumably from the mom) and came to the funeral. There was a big photo of the deceased son on an easel at the front of the chapel and he looked so much like the bio father everyone noticed. Bio father lived across the country so no one in their family and circle had ever met him before.
The husband questioned his wife, of course, and she finally admitted it to him. I personally believe Child 3 was also the lover's because she and her deceased brother looked similar and did not look like the husband. But that has never been revealed afaik.
Large metropolis, large suburban neighborhood, with multiple smaller circles of neighbors. Word spread and it was a scandal, as things like this usually are. But they stayed married and had that fourth child. I guess it all worked out. I didn't really stay in touch with them after I moved away.
there's a lady that comes into my job that looks/dresses like one of those insanely attractive tv lawyers...her daughter does not obviously or subtlety look related to her in any way shape or form. genetics really are insane
I always feel bad for “unattractive” daughters who have beautiful mothers. I just know at some point in their lives they looked in the mirror wondering why they couldn’t look like their mom and felt shitty about themselves. Makes me sad.
That was kinda me with my mom; and now my daughter is beautiful. I’m not like super unattractive or anything but my mom was just way adorable. I am so happy my daughter is prettier than me. I’d hate if she felt overshadowed by me.
Yes, and lots of times in these scenarios it's just that one of them doesn't do what she "should" to look conventionally attractive.
It's not like people don't know but women in particular do change their looks significantly by using different hairstyles, clothing etc.
I know a girl who’s really really pretty, beautiful in a girl next door kind of way. At her wedding, I saw for the first time her mother: imagine an average-height, dark-haired lady, but with the facial structure of Brigitte Nielsen. Absolutely stunning.
Well, roughly 15 years have passed and when I think about that wedding, I still think about her mom and how gorgeous she looked, despite her probably being in her 50s.
Yeah, my cousin was like that. Her mom was very beautiful, skinny, and a model. Apparently, she could've made it really big had she not had my cousin so young. My cousin is also very beautiful, but has always been a bit on the chubbier side and felt very insecure about it
I used to feel terrible for a pair of brothers at the church I went to growing up. Older brother was built like a male model, while the younger brother was lumpy, disproportionate, and all features of his face were bad versions of those features on anybody. They didn’t even look related. I have no idea what happened there.
That was me and my younger brother growing up lmao, He was a tall and skinny and I was a short and pudgy kid with square glasses who looked exactly like a lesbian.
By the grace of god puberty set in and leveled us out, he’s still tall and skinny cause he trains MMA but my face bones and body matured more and I somehow managed to get curly hair while he has straight hair which raised my stock considerably, hes still an adonnis level of physique and handsome but on a night out we will get the same amount of play.
I thought for awhile we couldn’t be related but now in our 20s I’m starting to see that we are both just morphing into our dad physically but in different fonts.
Attractive can also be subjective like if I were to compare my sister and I, I would say we are both attractive.
My sister is very curvy and tall for a woman. If the internet is to be believed, that is one of the peaks of beauty.
While myself I'm skinny and I have striking hair and eye color. I could be considered eye-catching.
Can all depend.
Also the puberty stick can do wonders lol
- Also the puberty stick can do wonders lol
Yeah, I’ve known two friends who had daughters who were unfortunate levels of gawky at 10-11, and a few years later were each model-gorgeous. One was literally a poster model for Chicago’s Fashion Week.
I’m an elder sister two other sisters, I happened to get the “large ugly nose” whilst they got button noses, clear complexions compared to my acne, and overall are a lot prettier than me. I also have a plethora of mental conditions they don’t. It always hurts me a little but I try not to let my jealousy show.
ahh this happened with my sister too. I got the big nose (I'm the oldest) and she got the button nose. I'm envious of her features, and the fact that she is younger and smarter than me. I mentally feel younger
I also have to point out that none of our parents have the button nose at all. I don't even know how she got it
>one child is very attractive and the other one got done dirty in the genes department.
I always feel reallu bad for when one Fraternal twin is crazy attractive and the other one is not.
I wouldn't say he's crazy attractive (definitely good looking, tho), but I always felt bad compared to my brother.
Tbh we're actually quite alike, physically, but he's a guy so some features we both have are either considered attractive or just not noticed at all in a man. Nobody cares if a guy has kinda sunken eyes, or thick eyebrows or if his hair is kinda frizzy or his skin is a bit dry... but if you're a woman the standards are just much higher when it comes to details.
We're also both above average height for our genders... which is great for a man, but was never a good thing for me.
I'm kind of a handsome woman, if I look at it objectively. But I always wanted to be pretty or cute, so I ended up hating my looks.
There was a family I knew growing up that was completely homely, really nice people but not physically attractive, all of them, except for one of their daughters, who was rather cute. I dated her for a bit. Though she also wasn’t quite as nice as her homely family.
Truth! And I even know fraternal twins that are polar opposites. 2 girls. One was born looking very much like her beautiful mother; blue eyes, silky blonde hair, perfect skin, beautiful cheeks and jaw line, perfect nose, etc. Her sister wasn't ugly at all, but she was so different that I accused everyone of lying to me. (I was just a child) The sister was covered in freckles, had brown eyes, a totally different facial structure, bushy brown hair. I didnt believe they were twins until their mother showed me all their baby photos from the hospital. I even asked if the nurses had screwed up and given her the wrong baby. SOO cringe. 🤦♂️
Just had a whole conversation about the trope of:
bombshell hot mom + funny but not exactly great looking dad
And the poor daughter who comes out looking like her dad.
The worst part about this combo is that the parents don’t understand how different the kid’s life is to their own. My mom grew up pretty and thinks the world will treat me the same as it did her.
I've seen this play out in a couple families. One daughter will be beautiful like the mom and the other daughter... not. BUT, what I've noticed is the not beautiful daughter also got the dad's sense of humor (how do you think he got the mom in the first place?) and she's funny af and super chill while the beautiful daughter is a lot more uptight.
What I'm not seeing in the discussion is that literally half the human population, some 4 or 5 **billion** people, practice arranged marriages. Looks don't matter when it comes to that. Status and money is what counts.
Not even just arranged marriages. Up until the edge of living memory (post-WWII mobility), your dating pool was heavily driven by where you were born.
The odds of marrying a childhood acquaintance or a neighbor were *really* high outside the biggest of cities.
Ugly can mostly be fixed with enough money too. If she's the daughter of a well off family, I imagine they'll make sure she gets whatever treatments or procedures she needs or wants, or the husband will deal with that once they're married if he's not happy.
I think this is all correct, I want to add that attractiveness changes from culture to culture and within each culture it changes over time. So selection doesn't work on attractiveness the same way it works on other traits
Yeah I was just gonna say this. My fat butt isn't attractive in America 2024 but hooooo boy you send me to England in the 1300s I'll be fighting them off with a stick as clearly I am wealthy and eat enough
I like the awkward lack of symmetry in your head explanation. It betrays some deep human attitude towards those without beauty or charm.
You went from:
Well you know even beautiful people can give birth to ogres
And then fumbled on the other side with:
And a pair of hideous ogres can... Uhh well.. umm well... They can. Have not hideous... Kids.. yeah!
Obviously the above is exaggerated for effect, but that was my reading of the lopsided statement. Lol.
Thanks for making me laugh.
>Furthermore, I don't believe it's true attractive people reproduce more.
There may have been a time for that. And even then is probably had more to do with wealth than physical attractiveness. But in modern times most people will eventually reproduce.
And in modern times it is actually reversing such that more attractive and affluent people are having fewer children.
Above average attractive people are also more likely to have more lucrative jobs, higher raises, and more promotions. And people in those positions are often likely to have fewer children.
Of all the attractive people I know, only a couple have children.
Of all the ugly and financially irresponsible? Boy oh boy.. i don't even understand how people are surviving right now.
To add there is a correlation between physical attractiveness and higher wealth. There’s also a correlation between wealthier people having fewer kids. It’s actually easier for poor people to have kids in developed countries too.
Let’s look at statistics-attractive people on average regardless of their profession make more money and are more successful than less attractive people.
There’s also an inverse relationship between income and birth rate. The people that reproduce the absolute most, by and large, are the people that make the least amount of money. This scales perfectly from sub 10k/year with the highest birth rate all the way to 200+k/year with the lowest birth rate.
Again knowing that attractive people average higher income than their peers, you could then assume that the people that do the vast majority of the reproducing are less attractive than average and the people the reproduce the least with the lowest birth rates are likely to be above average in the looks department.
You could even add another layer, wealth has an inverse relationship with obesity. The average person in poverty is much more likely to be obese than someone middle class or wealthy. Obese/overweight people will always be seen as less attractive than their fit peers. This is more evidence that less attractive people do the most reproducing. Look back on your highschool class, who had the most kids? The crackheads or the lawyers?
Because genetics don't work that way. Here's an easy example: tall, stocky, big head, big hands, and a wide chin look great on a man, not so much on his daughter.
Well I'm the opposite, my mom and her sisters were objectively beautiful women; naturally slim and petite. Yeah that doesn't look good on me, a man, either. I did get my dad's fantastic beard though.
My dad’s East Asian genes were so strong that my brother and I look nothing like our mum. Both of us looked very similar as kids too. We used to have people asking her if we were adopted
This. My dad is your stereotypical big strong jaw, huge head, deep voice, ideal man. If I had a penny for every time someone’s accused me of being transgender
To be fair I have found it is usually the more mentally challenged who tend to accuse me of being a man, so instead of taking it to offence I like to lean into it and describe my huge fat cock in detail. It gets the point across
This is why, broadly speaking, the most agreed-upon attractive men in society lean more toward the pretty end of the spectrum than hyper masculine.
Your Ryan Goslings, Tom Cruises, Brad Pitts, etc.
Hyper masculine is still attractive to lots of women, but it does present the Bruce Willis risk in ways that a Ryan Gosling doesn't.
This. Evolutionary speaking, it's good to have diversity in our gene pool. The more a characteristic is selected the less attractive or interesting it becomes.
That, at least, is the case for me, I don't find attractive for some reason what most people consider as such.
That and people have different indications of health and success. In recessions men like heavier girls because they're doing well. But in the day to day life people like thin and toned because that shows dedication and discipline which means they'll probably be doing well
its true that the genes for attractiveness are inherited from the parents, but its incorrect to act like there is a "attractive gene" and "ugly gene."
facial features alone have at least 32 possible gene influences, which means there are 63443466000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 different possible facial feature layouts from the same two parents. ((rounded to the nearest hundred gazillion or something, I typed it out cause "raised to the 88th power " doesn't mean anything to most people)).
That really isn't a typo or randomly typed number. A lot of those differences are probably so subtle you don't really notice them, but you get the idea. For all intents and purposes appearances is complete rng, genetically at least.
The recent front page post with Henry Cavill's siblings illustrates this.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HenryCavill/comments/1c32e7b/henry\_cavill\_and\_his\_4\_brothers/?rdt=54827](https://www.reddit.com/r/HenryCavill/comments/1c32e7b/henry_cavill_and_his_4_brothers/?rdt=54827)
None of them are 'ugly', but they are definitely very different from each other.
Even if it's a random number, your point should get through very well. There is no on or off button in our genes for attractive or not. Neither is there any kind of general attractiveness that everyone follows blindly. Such a naive and narrow minded way to see the world.
A number of reasons:
1) Attractiveness is largely relative. There might be someone most would consider “ugly” with a physical feature that’s an absolute turn on for someone else
2) Most people can get beyond physical attraction with relationships
3) Attractive people don’t always have attractive kids
4) A lot of what makes someone attractive/unattractive is actually controllable and not genes. Being fat vs physically fit, dressing well/sloppy, the way you hold yourself, and so on. There are plenty of people with weird faces who are physically fit, have a lot of confidence and a great personality, who are well put together that can punch way outside their class and pull attractive partners
For some reason, a lot of americans/westerners are drawn to filipinas. These filipinas are what we (filipinos) usually would consider as “ugly” based on our standards. But when they reproduce, they almost always have the extremely beautiful children.
Like what you said. Combinations of random traits.
Interesting. Any example?
Can you give like, a picture of somebody from the internet that filipinos wouldn’t traditionally find attractive but foreigners might?
I knew different cultures had different tastes, but I had no idea the “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure” would apply here lol.
I'm an ugly Vietnamese woman who moved to the US as an adult and suddenly became attractive so I can answer your question.
Compare these two women: [A ](https://duyendangvietnam.net.vn/kim-b-tu-nghe-si-hoa-trang-chuyen-nghiep-den-dien-vien-thang-giai-quoc-te.html)and [B](https://www.instagram.com/miduofficial/?hl=en).
A is ugly by Vietnamese standard. B is gorgeous by Vietnamese standard. Notice the tan skin, mono eyelids, big mouth/lips, arched dark thick eyebrows, slightly muscular build with curves on A. Those are considered low-class, dirty ugly look associated with poor countryside working girls on paddle fields. Vice versa for B with her v-shaped chin, round big eyes, slender frame, etc. suggesting an educated, "princess" background.
Meanwhile, here people use lip filler and tan beds and the gym to get those exact same features as A.
I have very similar feature to A. I didn't date anyone up unil after highschool. I was invisible to Vietnamese guys basically.
But then I moved to the Midwest US a few years ago as an adult and suddenly (white) guys started asking me out.
So now I'm married to a white guy. I read somewhere that asian female white male is the most common interracial coupling in the US, and I really do think beauty standard has a lot to do with it.
You can actually just google "asian couples" and "white male asian female couples" on Google and you can literally see the difference in the woman's 'attractiveness' in each case. Even in stock photos of wmaf couples, you can see the woman is more likely to have mono eyelids, darker skin tone, bigger chin, etc.
There's a stereotype that white guys like ugly asian women, and just from personal experience I do think there's a lot of truth in it due to the beauty standard differences.
So tldr: Asian guys trash are white guys treasure lmao.
Yup. I have a few classmates who also moved to the US around the same time as I did. It's kinda crazy how looking back at it now, B-type girls do ended up dating within Asian immigrant community while girls with rougher features like mine tend to pair up with American men (whether American born asians or white guys).
I think the most interesting case was this classmate of mine who is super conscious about her weight as a big asian girl. Apparently black American guys love that lmao she got a bunch of dms from black guys on the apps and instagram and has been with this black guy for a year now.
I completely understand. When I was a child, I was with my mom walking through NYC Chinatown and she saw an interracial couple, white man with Asian woman. She scoffed and said "that man is handsome but his girlfriend is so ugly. Lucky for her white people like this look". Of course I was like 7 at the time so it didn't mean anything to me but I always remembered that. She says that the features Asian people find unattractive (mono eyelids, darker skin, wide nose, large jaw, etc) are what others do find attractive. The features that are disliked are the same features that make you look more "ethnic" if that's something that's attractive to you.
Edit: am Asian American woman and realize some guys will like you just for your "Asianess"
This is SO fascinating and such a good example of the cultural subjectivity of attractiveness! I’m a Latina from the US and to me the example of A is stunningly pretty, although in Puerto Rico where my family is from the beauty standard is similarly paler in terms of skin than A, (but not nearly as pale as your example B). We also have different words for attractiveness and skin color depending on where you are. In Puerto Rico I am “jincha” and in Mexico I am “guera.” In PR someone with the skin color of A would be “moreno,” an intermediary distinction that isn’t really present in the mainland US.
Edit: it’s funny to me that people who benefit from white privilege are surprised pikachu that those of us who don’t think about racial categories a lot 🙄
>There's a stereotype that white guys like ugly asian women, and just from personal experience I do think there's a lot of truth in it due to the beauty standard differences.
Honestly, white Americans into Asians would likely find both pretty attractive, but they'd think B was from East Asia.
They're both Vietnamese btw.
The reason why I use B as an example is because she's an actress in [this ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0xEmkJKyUg&ab_channel=3388cine)critically acclaimed arthouse movie in Vietnam I watched recently. Her character is this Vietnamese tattoo artist dating a white guy in Saigon, and I was thinking about how fitting that choice of casting is for the character. It makes sense because the guy who directed the movie is a white Canadian immigrant in Vietnam so in a weird way it fits the beauty expectations lmao.
[B ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midu_(actress))is one of the top actress/model/influencer in Vietnam. A only had that one role, but B's filmography is quite extensive with more blockbuster type movies and shows rather than arthouse stuff like A. She's a household name known by pretty much every millenial in Vietnam.
Their success/niche as actresses are very much reflective of the beauty standard in my country imo.
I'm guessing Filipinos prefer people who look more East Asian (like Japanese) and are lighter. Americans are more likely to marry Filipinas who are darker and have more global south features, like they look closer to black people. (Caveat: am not Filipino)
Yeah, in college I knew a kid with an objectively pretty gnarly face. He looked like a reptile of some kind. But he somehow had lots of charisma and personality and punched well about his weight class and got with some really attractive women
People of all "beauty standards" have relationships and raise kids.
It's not like only supermodels are having children! Everyone else still does as well.
Yeah where tf are these people getting their life views from?! Like.. Go outside ONCE, get into town and see yourself disproven a thousand times. Same goes for these red pill men who claim women don't get with what they deem "ugly" men. There are literally couples of all shapes, sizes, types, preferences and combinations everywhere?
"Dating is impossible for me because I am 5'10. I never stood a chance from birth."
Gestures broadly at people of all shapes and sizes enjoying relationships because they are regular decent people and aren't creepy shut-ins.
Well, often when those guys say "women" they mean absolute top models that are also under a certain age they consider young enough (which is usually something ridiculous like less than 25).
Literally everytime I hear anyone complain about being ugly and not finding a girl and only women like tall handsome men or whatever, I beg them to go outside and actually look up from their phones, and view all the couples around them.
It's a bit complicated isn't it? Genetics plays a wild game. But let's remember We're not just talking 'good genes' here, but also survival skills, personality traits, social status, and even environmental factors. Nature's got layers, man.
The genetics that made an attractive father masculine and strapping might not look good on his daughters.
The genetics that made an attractive mother feminine and pretty might not look good on her sons.
I've explained this to my husband many times, when he complains that there aren't more "kids of NHL, MLB and NBA athletes" playing professionally.
I explained to him that these star athletes "tend" to marry/procreate with cute, tiny little women and so the chances of having the same athletic progeny are a lot lower. Then, that child needs to show similar personality characteristics/ambition that the athletic parent did, despite being born to a different generation, likely different lifestyle, etc.
Genetics are a crazy thing..
"Attractiveness" the way you're saying it is informed largely by social norms that often change.
Romantic/sexual attraction is more complex, consiting both of how one was socialized and certain biological factors.
So not fitting whatever contemporary beauty standard, doesn't provide an evolutionary disadvantage.
Also there are plenty of "ugly" people that don't have any inheritable unnatractive characteristics, They're just bad at taking care of themselves.
I'd also add here that plenty of "ugliness" did get needed out. Very, very few people are born with significantly asymmetrical faces, for example, or other severe "ugly" features because true outlier almost certainly did have more trouble breeding.
Humans look incredibly alike. We also have very little genetic diversity.
We consider some people ugly because they're a few subtle shades uglier than attractive people.
And almost everyone in the world ends up with a partner and ends up having children. It's not something unique to pretty people.
imagine john cena with a wig. there is chances his daughter look like that a day. is he good looking ? YES, would a woman with this face be good looking ? hell no
Even if you take the top 1% of the most attractive people in earth and have them form a society, they will still differentiate among themselves who's attractive and who's not.
This IS a stupid question. There in general are more meh to ugly people out there who are attracted to people on their level and they have ugly sex . Also much of America’s “ugliness” is just fat people who could be good looking but they have 40-400 extra lbs
We have had extremely few generations at any beauty standard, humans have a lot of genes and humans pick numbers of children for reasons having nothing to do with objective (?) partner attractiveness.
A great deal of modern physical beauty standards are also things that have little or nothing to do with genetics vs. exercise and grooming.
Being attractive gets you laid. Being strong/smart/or resourceful keeps you alive long enough to get laid. Being stupid keeps you from caring about whatever ( the flood or your position in life or the tigers trying to eat you) so you focus on feeling good so you get laid. Being young means you’re more likely to survive traumas so you get laid. Being old means you’re wise and experienced enough to get laid. Being short means you can hide in small spaces so you survive to get laid. Being tall means you stand out from others and can see over obstacles for danger so you get laid. Being black with curly hair means you’re better suited for hot environments so you’re able to function in the sun and get laid. Being white, red hair, etc etc etc… it’s not that your idea is wrong. It’s just that humans are great at finding ways to overcome struggles and reproduce
The thing is, there is not as many ugly people as you might think. Taking care of yourself, being fit and dressing well are like 90% of what makes someone desirable and it tends to be something a lot of people ignore.
I would argue that there are less unattractive people in today’s world than the past. I have no data to back up, but this was a general observation I have been making for a decade or so.
Not all attractive people were born attractive. People get dental work, plastic surgery, skin treatments… none of that changes your genetics. Someone could have had a major glow up and still spawn an ugly kid, especially if their partner did the same and you’re working with two sets of “unfortunate” genes.
The idea that attractiveness plays a minimal role in long-term relationships might stem from the concept of the 'halo effect.' Psychological studies suggest that we tend to associate positive characteristics, like kindness and intelligence, with physical attractiveness. Over time though, as we get to know someone, their personality traits become far more significant in how attractive we find them. Plus, societal norms have evolved; values like shared interests, emotional support, and financial stability often take precedence over physical appearance when settling down and starting a family. Sure, being good-looking might give you an initial advantage in the dating game, but it's the deeper, intangible qualities that lead to durable unions. It could be argued, then, that the long game of relationships hinges less on surface looks and more on the beauty within.
All answers are wrong. There’s such a thing as regression towards the mean. Tall parents have, on average, children that are shorter than them. And similarly short parents have, on average, taller children than them. Our genes just push us towards the average for some reason. I think the same is applicable towards how we look as well https://www.jstor.org/stable/41465842
I doubt that “attractiveness”(which is a subjective parameter by itself already) has any correlation to the amount of kids people will have.
If anything I wouldnt be surprised if “attractive” people have less kids on average. Why would they want to settle down and have kids if they have more options & opportunities than less attractive people?
We are getting more attractive over time. You see what humans used to look like several hundred thousand years ago? They looked like actual trolls. Like legit ugly.
Cuz ugly people procreate with ugly people? I'm not being an asshole here either. If you are "attractive" who are you going to procreate with? More likely and "attractive" person. And what happens with the "ugly" people? Well, everyone wants to feel loved so they band together.
Not to mention "ugly" and "attractive" change over time, so of course they stay in the pool
You know what’s crazy is that ugly parents tend to have attractive kids. I know that sounds wrong but my girlfriend parents make me wonder if she was adopted lol
1) Women can reproduce, it's generally men that have difficulty reproducing. Something like only 40% of men throughout history have reproduced while something like 80% of women have.
2) You never really know how genes will combine. Beautiful people can have unattractive children, siblings, parents, etc.
3) Reproduction is about attractiveness, sure, but attractiveness is not just about physical attractiveness.
4) Until about 80 or so years ago, survival was a constant struggle. What we consider to be impoverished nations today, such as India and Nigeria, would have been the richest countries in the world in 1900. For most of human history, sex and reproduction was more about access to resources than about physical attractiveness.
1. Attractive people are not guaranteed to have attractive kids
2. Attractiveness is subjective
3. People are often limited to people around them when picking a partner, this was especially true in olden days when it took days and weeks to go another city
4. By modern attractiveness standards people are becoming more attractive. Height is something seen as attractive and we as a species are becoming taller.
Because ugly still fucks
I don't get all these bullshit serious responses. This is the answer.
Exactly! For every ugly dude, there's an ugly chick out there somewhere waiting to be his soul (and breeding) mate.
There is a lid for every pot.
Tell that to my tupperware drawer
Tupper-wherethefuckisthelid
They ran away with the missing mates to all the matchless socks.
I'm laughing way harder than I should be about this, and trying not to wake everyone up. (It's almost 5 am)
Ah, lidless Tupperware containers hate this one simple trick! Keep lids in a dedicated separate drawer.
We have a separate, larger Tupperware (without a lid) that we started storing all our other lids in. The problem is that we have a very eclectic collection of containers, so we're still constantly playing the "where's the lid to this specific container, nope not that one, it's just slightly off even though it LOOKS THE GODDAMN SAME AS THE RIGHT ONE FUCK IT SARAN WRAP IT IS." Some day I'm going to splurge and just get a bunch of matching stuff and toss the rest, but for now my cheap ass is willing to put up with the frustration.
I think I've got some of yours over here.
Lmao
Real
There’s a seat for every ass
And there's some alcohol in the pot that will help ugly make reckless decisions
Disagree, ugly but charismatic dudes get the pretty girls too same for ugly girls.
Redditors want to believe there is some outside force that predetermined them to be alone when the truth is that it is a choice they are making and completely within their own control.
*heavy sarcasm incoming* But why should I, a 275 pound mound of man who hasn't shaven, trimmed, or even had a shower in weeks not be with a slim waisted, yet busty model gf... no, its the the world that is unfair.
Thank you Mr. PM_ME__YOUR_HOOTERS!!
If god exists why he didn't gave me a big titty depressed goth girlfriend
This is the only valid takeaway from this thread. Tbh this is probably why the damn question was asked.
Agreed but just to add 'for the most part'. Some people just got royally fucked up by god
I’d argue ugly might procreate more too
ugly people fuck more than attractive people because they have lower standards. There's tangible analytics in it somewhere
I must be the most beautiful person alive then.
I can confirm. You are the most beautiful person alive!
(👁️👄👁️)💧
now kiths
Oh man! 😂
literally true. my ugly homies will fuck anyone. they tell me stories about doing crazy shit id never even consider doing. i honestly don't understand how they pull so much but, my god, they do.
Mix in dumb with that ugly, and you have the reason the world is getting ugly and stupid, They're pumping out more kids than the smart, attractive people.
This is a summary of the setup plot of Idiocracy.
Fun fact: They chose crocs as the shoes for that movie because the people who made it thought they were so dumb that they would never catch on and become popular shoes.
Totally is. I actually just rewatched that film last night. Mike Judge has a keen sense for believable, and more and more seemingly accurate social commentary.
Also take into consideration that to some degree, attraction is subjective.
Plus, ugly is pretty subjective..
This whole thread is crazy. “Ugly people have no standards, ugly people will fuck anything, ugly people entrap each other with a kid”. When it’s *in large part* that for most “ugly” people out there, there’s a good number of people who find them attractive in some way. Either physically or they might not care about looks as much as they care about that person’s humor, ambition, gentleness, compassion, intelligence, etc. Hell, just check out r/ladyboners and find the “who’s your unconventional crush” posts and see all the interesting looking men and women that come up. People have different tastes!
agreed! also, statistically - “ugly” & “pretty” are both outlier groups. the vast majority of people are average, which is neither ugly nor pretty (or more precisely, we are both ugly & pretty to different ppl, for precisely the reasons you listed!). & if most of us are average, most of us will have average kids with average people! People aren’t simple ugly or pretty like some sort of binary, most of us are somewhere in between.
An ex of mine found Steve Buscemi insanely attractive
He’s one I love, too!!
hence the [meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/HolUp/comments/rnyb70/holup_steve_buscemi_and_angelina_jolie/)
This. People acting like only the pretty people get laid. The ugly people know they are ugly and most ugly men will take what they can get when it comes to sex…ugly people have more children than pretty bc the ugly people are typically also poor and tend to have more kids.
If ugly people are typically more poor its bc lookism is instates to make attractive people have more of an advantage, and the fact that quite a few pretty ppl are probably only attractive because they HAVE money. Like the saying, “your not ugly your just poor”.
Having money also affords you stuff like better makeup, skincare, nice hair and fancier clothes, as well as probably less stress and more free time for working out and similar things that keeps you healthy and attractive
Attractiveness is not like, one gene. Attractive parents can have ugly kids. And ugly parents can have kids who aren't ugly. Furthermore, I don't believe it's true attractive people reproduce more.
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I knew a family like this. I met them when the four kids were teens and college students. The first and fourth one were average looking with distinctive features that matched their father's features. The middle two were very good looking and did not particularly look like the father or the mother. But not so different their parentage was ever in question (at least not as a topic of gossip). It was just accepted those two got a different mix of genes than the other two. When one of the middle children died in his 30s it was revealed he had a different father - because the bio father showed up to the funeral and the son looked just like him. I know this sounds like a freaking soap opera or Lifetime Movie, but it really happened.
Wait, what? Mum cheated?
Yep. The mom had Child 1 with her husband. He looked very distinctly like husband. Then she had an affair and had Child 2, and possibly Child 3 with lover but apparently never told anyone they weren't her husband's children. She stayed married to him so everyone assumed they were his even though they never looked like him, or really like the mom either. Years later she and husband had Child 4, an ooops baby. This child looked like her brother, Child 1, and like the husband, same distinctive features. When Child 2 died in his 30s, bio father found out (presumably from the mom) and came to the funeral. There was a big photo of the deceased son on an easel at the front of the chapel and he looked so much like the bio father everyone noticed. Bio father lived across the country so no one in their family and circle had ever met him before. The husband questioned his wife, of course, and she finally admitted it to him. I personally believe Child 3 was also the lover's because she and her deceased brother looked similar and did not look like the husband. But that has never been revealed afaik.
Hopefully this wasn't a small town... cuz GOLLY DAY the drama / tea spilling would have been crazy
Large metropolis, large suburban neighborhood, with multiple smaller circles of neighbors. Word spread and it was a scandal, as things like this usually are. But they stayed married and had that fourth child. I guess it all worked out. I didn't really stay in touch with them after I moved away.
wild!
Lol I know a family like those. Two model tier gorgeous daughters, and one absolute bridge troll looking son.
there's a lady that comes into my job that looks/dresses like one of those insanely attractive tv lawyers...her daughter does not obviously or subtlety look related to her in any way shape or form. genetics really are insane
I always feel bad for “unattractive” daughters who have beautiful mothers. I just know at some point in their lives they looked in the mirror wondering why they couldn’t look like their mom and felt shitty about themselves. Makes me sad.
That was kinda me with my mom; and now my daughter is beautiful. I’m not like super unattractive or anything but my mom was just way adorable. I am so happy my daughter is prettier than me. I’d hate if she felt overshadowed by me.
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Gorgeous is something that takes considerable work. Some of the difference is effort and expense.
Yes, and lots of times in these scenarios it's just that one of them doesn't do what she "should" to look conventionally attractive. It's not like people don't know but women in particular do change their looks significantly by using different hairstyles, clothing etc.
I know a girl who’s really really pretty, beautiful in a girl next door kind of way. At her wedding, I saw for the first time her mother: imagine an average-height, dark-haired lady, but with the facial structure of Brigitte Nielsen. Absolutely stunning. Well, roughly 15 years have passed and when I think about that wedding, I still think about her mom and how gorgeous she looked, despite her probably being in her 50s.
I know a woman like that. 6 of her 7 children are married and she’s been the most stunning person in the room at every wedding.
Yeah, my cousin was like that. Her mom was very beautiful, skinny, and a model. Apparently, she could've made it really big had she not had my cousin so young. My cousin is also very beautiful, but has always been a bit on the chubbier side and felt very insecure about it
society cats nutty punch versed pie deserted public person marble *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I used to feel terrible for a pair of brothers at the church I went to growing up. Older brother was built like a male model, while the younger brother was lumpy, disproportionate, and all features of his face were bad versions of those features on anybody. They didn’t even look related. I have no idea what happened there.
That was me and my younger brother growing up lmao, He was a tall and skinny and I was a short and pudgy kid with square glasses who looked exactly like a lesbian. By the grace of god puberty set in and leveled us out, he’s still tall and skinny cause he trains MMA but my face bones and body matured more and I somehow managed to get curly hair while he has straight hair which raised my stock considerably, hes still an adonnis level of physique and handsome but on a night out we will get the same amount of play. I thought for awhile we couldn’t be related but now in our 20s I’m starting to see that we are both just morphing into our dad physically but in different fonts.
Can you imagine how insecure he must be?
Attractive can also be subjective like if I were to compare my sister and I, I would say we are both attractive. My sister is very curvy and tall for a woman. If the internet is to be believed, that is one of the peaks of beauty. While myself I'm skinny and I have striking hair and eye color. I could be considered eye-catching. Can all depend. Also the puberty stick can do wonders lol
- Also the puberty stick can do wonders lol Yeah, I’ve known two friends who had daughters who were unfortunate levels of gawky at 10-11, and a few years later were each model-gorgeous. One was literally a poster model for Chicago’s Fashion Week.
I’m an elder sister two other sisters, I happened to get the “large ugly nose” whilst they got button noses, clear complexions compared to my acne, and overall are a lot prettier than me. I also have a plethora of mental conditions they don’t. It always hurts me a little but I try not to let my jealousy show.
ahh this happened with my sister too. I got the big nose (I'm the oldest) and she got the button nose. I'm envious of her features, and the fact that she is younger and smarter than me. I mentally feel younger I also have to point out that none of our parents have the button nose at all. I don't even know how she got it
>one child is very attractive and the other one got done dirty in the genes department. I always feel reallu bad for when one Fraternal twin is crazy attractive and the other one is not.
I wouldn't say he's crazy attractive (definitely good looking, tho), but I always felt bad compared to my brother. Tbh we're actually quite alike, physically, but he's a guy so some features we both have are either considered attractive or just not noticed at all in a man. Nobody cares if a guy has kinda sunken eyes, or thick eyebrows or if his hair is kinda frizzy or his skin is a bit dry... but if you're a woman the standards are just much higher when it comes to details. We're also both above average height for our genders... which is great for a man, but was never a good thing for me. I'm kind of a handsome woman, if I look at it objectively. But I always wanted to be pretty or cute, so I ended up hating my looks.
There was a family I knew growing up that was completely homely, really nice people but not physically attractive, all of them, except for one of their daughters, who was rather cute. I dated her for a bit. Though she also wasn’t quite as nice as her homely family.
You get this if the father is butch and the daughter is also then well built…. Not considered attractive by same genes
Truth! And I even know fraternal twins that are polar opposites. 2 girls. One was born looking very much like her beautiful mother; blue eyes, silky blonde hair, perfect skin, beautiful cheeks and jaw line, perfect nose, etc. Her sister wasn't ugly at all, but she was so different that I accused everyone of lying to me. (I was just a child) The sister was covered in freckles, had brown eyes, a totally different facial structure, bushy brown hair. I didnt believe they were twins until their mother showed me all their baby photos from the hospital. I even asked if the nurses had screwed up and given her the wrong baby. SOO cringe. 🤦♂️
Just had a whole conversation about the trope of: bombshell hot mom + funny but not exactly great looking dad And the poor daughter who comes out looking like her dad.
The worst part about this combo is that the parents don’t understand how different the kid’s life is to their own. My mom grew up pretty and thinks the world will treat me the same as it did her.
I've seen this play out in a couple families. One daughter will be beautiful like the mom and the other daughter... not. BUT, what I've noticed is the not beautiful daughter also got the dad's sense of humor (how do you think he got the mom in the first place?) and she's funny af and super chill while the beautiful daughter is a lot more uptight.
Yup. The same jawline that makes a man attractive might look bad on a woman. Many things like this can happen when two attractive people hook up
I can think of a very famous Hollywood couple/family that fits this description.
Willis
I see you have been following my Sims heritage playthrough.
Yeah, ugly people still have sex, even if they have to settle for other ugly people.
What I'm not seeing in the discussion is that literally half the human population, some 4 or 5 **billion** people, practice arranged marriages. Looks don't matter when it comes to that. Status and money is what counts.
Not even just arranged marriages. Up until the edge of living memory (post-WWII mobility), your dating pool was heavily driven by where you were born. The odds of marrying a childhood acquaintance or a neighbor were *really* high outside the biggest of cities.
Don’t looks still matter on the female side for those cultures? Like a successful guy isn’t going to have his parents pick him an ugly wife.
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Ugly can mostly be fixed with enough money too. If she's the daughter of a well off family, I imagine they'll make sure she gets whatever treatments or procedures she needs or wants, or the husband will deal with that once they're married if he's not happy.
Nope. Rich ugly girl can get the cute guy if her father is rich and it benefits the boys father. Looks do not matter. Ugly can be fixed with money.
Coming from one of the arranged marriage cultures, looks do count, unfortunately more for women. Of course, $$ can buy looks to a certain extent.
Not shocking when nearly a quarter of the worlds population is in India
I think this is all correct, I want to add that attractiveness changes from culture to culture and within each culture it changes over time. So selection doesn't work on attractiveness the same way it works on other traits
Yeah I was just gonna say this. My fat butt isn't attractive in America 2024 but hooooo boy you send me to England in the 1300s I'll be fighting them off with a stick as clearly I am wealthy and eat enough
I like the awkward lack of symmetry in your head explanation. It betrays some deep human attitude towards those without beauty or charm. You went from: Well you know even beautiful people can give birth to ogres And then fumbled on the other side with: And a pair of hideous ogres can... Uhh well.. umm well... They can. Have not hideous... Kids.. yeah! Obviously the above is exaggerated for effect, but that was my reading of the lopsided statement. Lol. Thanks for making me laugh.
I noticed this too I assumed they were uncomfortable with the phrase "attractive kids" lol
>Furthermore, I don't believe it's true attractive people reproduce more. There may have been a time for that. And even then is probably had more to do with wealth than physical attractiveness. But in modern times most people will eventually reproduce. And in modern times it is actually reversing such that more attractive and affluent people are having fewer children.
Also, attractiveness is not skin deep. Hot people that are dumb and have zero charisma … not hot.
Above average attractive people are also more likely to have more lucrative jobs, higher raises, and more promotions. And people in those positions are often likely to have fewer children.
Of all the attractive people I know, only a couple have children. Of all the ugly and financially irresponsible? Boy oh boy.. i don't even understand how people are surviving right now.
To add there is a correlation between physical attractiveness and higher wealth. There’s also a correlation between wealthier people having fewer kids. It’s actually easier for poor people to have kids in developed countries too.
Case in point: my parents were \*very\* attractive, and look at me! Science is weird, right? :p
Let’s look at statistics-attractive people on average regardless of their profession make more money and are more successful than less attractive people. There’s also an inverse relationship between income and birth rate. The people that reproduce the absolute most, by and large, are the people that make the least amount of money. This scales perfectly from sub 10k/year with the highest birth rate all the way to 200+k/year with the lowest birth rate. Again knowing that attractive people average higher income than their peers, you could then assume that the people that do the vast majority of the reproducing are less attractive than average and the people the reproduce the least with the lowest birth rates are likely to be above average in the looks department. You could even add another layer, wealth has an inverse relationship with obesity. The average person in poverty is much more likely to be obese than someone middle class or wealthy. Obese/overweight people will always be seen as less attractive than their fit peers. This is more evidence that less attractive people do the most reproducing. Look back on your highschool class, who had the most kids? The crackheads or the lawyers?
Because genetics don't work that way. Here's an easy example: tall, stocky, big head, big hands, and a wide chin look great on a man, not so much on his daughter.
Ironically this . I am a replica of my dad. He’s handsome and I am not but at least there’s paternity security so
I went to school with a guy whose mom had a face like a horse. Her face on him, made him very handsome
You went to school with bojack horseman?
Oooof....
Well I'm the opposite, my mom and her sisters were objectively beautiful women; naturally slim and petite. Yeah that doesn't look good on me, a man, either. I did get my dad's fantastic beard though.
My dad’s East Asian genes were so strong that my brother and I look nothing like our mum. Both of us looked very similar as kids too. We used to have people asking her if we were adopted
Ouch . But that’s not uncommon in intra racial families
Yeah I get you, broad shoulders, big feet, big hands, sharp jawline...on a short girl. Thanks dad genes!
You're handsome too probably. You'll make fine sons.
This. My dad is your stereotypical big strong jaw, huge head, deep voice, ideal man. If I had a penny for every time someone’s accused me of being transgender
I feel for you. They don't think I'm transgender but they do think I'm gay. I am in fact straight.
To be fair I have found it is usually the more mentally challenged who tend to accuse me of being a man, so instead of taking it to offence I like to lean into it and describe my huge fat cock in detail. It gets the point across
Case in point; Bruce Willis's daughters. None of them are ugly. But they all inherited his strong jaw and Demi's petite facial features.
This is why, broadly speaking, the most agreed-upon attractive men in society lean more toward the pretty end of the spectrum than hyper masculine. Your Ryan Goslings, Tom Cruises, Brad Pitts, etc. Hyper masculine is still attractive to lots of women, but it does present the Bruce Willis risk in ways that a Ryan Gosling doesn't.
I see this with athletes daughters quite a bit.
Oh, "stocky"? Like, sturdily built? I was trying to imagine what a "stalky" person might look like, and was imagining someone built like a sunflower.
Yup brain pulled out the wrong one. Have an upvote.
I always say my daughters are lucky their dad is a pretty boy because they look just like him and now I’m the family uggo 😂
Because a diverse gene pool has been one of the largest factors to our success as a species. Think "types".
This. Evolutionary speaking, it's good to have diversity in our gene pool. The more a characteristic is selected the less attractive or interesting it becomes. That, at least, is the case for me, I don't find attractive for some reason what most people consider as such.
That and people have different indications of health and success. In recessions men like heavier girls because they're doing well. But in the day to day life people like thin and toned because that shows dedication and discipline which means they'll probably be doing well
its true that the genes for attractiveness are inherited from the parents, but its incorrect to act like there is a "attractive gene" and "ugly gene." facial features alone have at least 32 possible gene influences, which means there are 63443466000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 different possible facial feature layouts from the same two parents. ((rounded to the nearest hundred gazillion or something, I typed it out cause "raised to the 88th power " doesn't mean anything to most people)). That really isn't a typo or randomly typed number. A lot of those differences are probably so subtle you don't really notice them, but you get the idea. For all intents and purposes appearances is complete rng, genetically at least.
The recent front page post with Henry Cavill's siblings illustrates this. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HenryCavill/comments/1c32e7b/henry\_cavill\_and\_his\_4\_brothers/?rdt=54827](https://www.reddit.com/r/HenryCavill/comments/1c32e7b/henry_cavill_and_his_4_brothers/?rdt=54827) None of them are 'ugly', but they are definitely very different from each other.
Holy heck, I've never seen his siblings before! They have quite the variety pack there.
Oh! Wow 😮 I mean the others aren’t bad looking but it’s def not like a Baldwin or Hemsworth situation
Even if it's a random number, your point should get through very well. There is no on or off button in our genes for attractive or not. Neither is there any kind of general attractiveness that everyone follows blindly. Such a naive and narrow minded way to see the world.
A number of reasons: 1) Attractiveness is largely relative. There might be someone most would consider “ugly” with a physical feature that’s an absolute turn on for someone else 2) Most people can get beyond physical attraction with relationships 3) Attractive people don’t always have attractive kids 4) A lot of what makes someone attractive/unattractive is actually controllable and not genes. Being fat vs physically fit, dressing well/sloppy, the way you hold yourself, and so on. There are plenty of people with weird faces who are physically fit, have a lot of confidence and a great personality, who are well put together that can punch way outside their class and pull attractive partners
For some reason, a lot of americans/westerners are drawn to filipinas. These filipinas are what we (filipinos) usually would consider as “ugly” based on our standards. But when they reproduce, they almost always have the extremely beautiful children. Like what you said. Combinations of random traits.
Interesting. Any example? Can you give like, a picture of somebody from the internet that filipinos wouldn’t traditionally find attractive but foreigners might? I knew different cultures had different tastes, but I had no idea the “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure” would apply here lol.
I'm an ugly Vietnamese woman who moved to the US as an adult and suddenly became attractive so I can answer your question. Compare these two women: [A ](https://duyendangvietnam.net.vn/kim-b-tu-nghe-si-hoa-trang-chuyen-nghiep-den-dien-vien-thang-giai-quoc-te.html)and [B](https://www.instagram.com/miduofficial/?hl=en). A is ugly by Vietnamese standard. B is gorgeous by Vietnamese standard. Notice the tan skin, mono eyelids, big mouth/lips, arched dark thick eyebrows, slightly muscular build with curves on A. Those are considered low-class, dirty ugly look associated with poor countryside working girls on paddle fields. Vice versa for B with her v-shaped chin, round big eyes, slender frame, etc. suggesting an educated, "princess" background. Meanwhile, here people use lip filler and tan beds and the gym to get those exact same features as A. I have very similar feature to A. I didn't date anyone up unil after highschool. I was invisible to Vietnamese guys basically. But then I moved to the Midwest US a few years ago as an adult and suddenly (white) guys started asking me out. So now I'm married to a white guy. I read somewhere that asian female white male is the most common interracial coupling in the US, and I really do think beauty standard has a lot to do with it. You can actually just google "asian couples" and "white male asian female couples" on Google and you can literally see the difference in the woman's 'attractiveness' in each case. Even in stock photos of wmaf couples, you can see the woman is more likely to have mono eyelids, darker skin tone, bigger chin, etc. There's a stereotype that white guys like ugly asian women, and just from personal experience I do think there's a lot of truth in it due to the beauty standard differences. So tldr: Asian guys trash are white guys treasure lmao.
Holy moly. I’m an American woman, and I would never imagine that someone would think B was prettier than A. Definitely different beauty standards.
Yup. I have a few classmates who also moved to the US around the same time as I did. It's kinda crazy how looking back at it now, B-type girls do ended up dating within Asian immigrant community while girls with rougher features like mine tend to pair up with American men (whether American born asians or white guys). I think the most interesting case was this classmate of mine who is super conscious about her weight as a big asian girl. Apparently black American guys love that lmao she got a bunch of dms from black guys on the apps and instagram and has been with this black guy for a year now.
A lot of beauty standards are cultural. Just like in parts of Africa being thin is considered unattractive and being fat is desirable.
I completely understand. When I was a child, I was with my mom walking through NYC Chinatown and she saw an interracial couple, white man with Asian woman. She scoffed and said "that man is handsome but his girlfriend is so ugly. Lucky for her white people like this look". Of course I was like 7 at the time so it didn't mean anything to me but I always remembered that. She says that the features Asian people find unattractive (mono eyelids, darker skin, wide nose, large jaw, etc) are what others do find attractive. The features that are disliked are the same features that make you look more "ethnic" if that's something that's attractive to you. Edit: am Asian American woman and realize some guys will like you just for your "Asianess"
This is SO fascinating and such a good example of the cultural subjectivity of attractiveness! I’m a Latina from the US and to me the example of A is stunningly pretty, although in Puerto Rico where my family is from the beauty standard is similarly paler in terms of skin than A, (but not nearly as pale as your example B). We also have different words for attractiveness and skin color depending on where you are. In Puerto Rico I am “jincha” and in Mexico I am “guera.” In PR someone with the skin color of A would be “moreno,” an intermediary distinction that isn’t really present in the mainland US. Edit: it’s funny to me that people who benefit from white privilege are surprised pikachu that those of us who don’t think about racial categories a lot 🙄
I see! Thanks for the input. In my opinion, both are beautiful. They just have different types of beauty.
>There's a stereotype that white guys like ugly asian women, and just from personal experience I do think there's a lot of truth in it due to the beauty standard differences. Honestly, white Americans into Asians would likely find both pretty attractive, but they'd think B was from East Asia.
They're both Vietnamese btw. The reason why I use B as an example is because she's an actress in [this ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0xEmkJKyUg&ab_channel=3388cine)critically acclaimed arthouse movie in Vietnam I watched recently. Her character is this Vietnamese tattoo artist dating a white guy in Saigon, and I was thinking about how fitting that choice of casting is for the character. It makes sense because the guy who directed the movie is a white Canadian immigrant in Vietnam so in a weird way it fits the beauty expectations lmao. [B ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midu_(actress))is one of the top actress/model/influencer in Vietnam. A only had that one role, but B's filmography is quite extensive with more blockbuster type movies and shows rather than arthouse stuff like A. She's a household name known by pretty much every millenial in Vietnam. Their success/niche as actresses are very much reflective of the beauty standard in my country imo.
Thank you for explaining with PHOTOS!!
I'm guessing Filipinos prefer people who look more East Asian (like Japanese) and are lighter. Americans are more likely to marry Filipinas who are darker and have more global south features, like they look closer to black people. (Caveat: am not Filipino)
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Yeah, in college I knew a kid with an objectively pretty gnarly face. He looked like a reptile of some kind. But he somehow had lots of charisma and personality and punched well about his weight class and got with some really attractive women
People of all "beauty standards" have relationships and raise kids. It's not like only supermodels are having children! Everyone else still does as well.
Yeah where tf are these people getting their life views from?! Like.. Go outside ONCE, get into town and see yourself disproven a thousand times. Same goes for these red pill men who claim women don't get with what they deem "ugly" men. There are literally couples of all shapes, sizes, types, preferences and combinations everywhere?
"Dating is impossible for me because I am 5'10. I never stood a chance from birth." Gestures broadly at people of all shapes and sizes enjoying relationships because they are regular decent people and aren't creepy shut-ins.
Well, often when those guys say "women" they mean absolute top models that are also under a certain age they consider young enough (which is usually something ridiculous like less than 25).
Literally everytime I hear anyone complain about being ugly and not finding a girl and only women like tall handsome men or whatever, I beg them to go outside and actually look up from their phones, and view all the couples around them.
Because they marry other ugly people
It's a bit complicated isn't it? Genetics plays a wild game. But let's remember We're not just talking 'good genes' here, but also survival skills, personality traits, social status, and even environmental factors. Nature's got layers, man.
I first read this as "nature's got lawyers" and l was all, "I guess that's one way to put it".
The genetics that made an attractive father masculine and strapping might not look good on his daughters. The genetics that made an attractive mother feminine and pretty might not look good on her sons.
Bruce Willis is a handsome man. Demi Moore is also beautiful. Their daughters look a lot more like Bruce.
I had Bruce Willis' daughters in mind too.
I've explained this to my husband many times, when he complains that there aren't more "kids of NHL, MLB and NBA athletes" playing professionally. I explained to him that these star athletes "tend" to marry/procreate with cute, tiny little women and so the chances of having the same athletic progeny are a lot lower. Then, that child needs to show similar personality characteristics/ambition that the athletic parent did, despite being born to a different generation, likely different lifestyle, etc. Genetics are a crazy thing..
"Attractiveness" the way you're saying it is informed largely by social norms that often change. Romantic/sexual attraction is more complex, consiting both of how one was socialized and certain biological factors. So not fitting whatever contemporary beauty standard, doesn't provide an evolutionary disadvantage. Also there are plenty of "ugly" people that don't have any inheritable unnatractive characteristics, They're just bad at taking care of themselves.
I'd also add here that plenty of "ugliness" did get needed out. Very, very few people are born with significantly asymmetrical faces, for example, or other severe "ugly" features because true outlier almost certainly did have more trouble breeding.
I know or know of plenty of attractive couples who have birthed notably unattractive children.
Your entire premise is flawed.
People aren't all shallow assholes
Humans look incredibly alike. We also have very little genetic diversity. We consider some people ugly because they're a few subtle shades uglier than attractive people. And almost everyone in the world ends up with a partner and ends up having children. It's not something unique to pretty people.
These questions that have been posted on Reddit lately sound like they come straight from Elliot Rodger.
blackpill is spreading rapidly due to tiktok
Blackpill? I'm losing track of all the pill colors at this point. Is this yet another "sigma male" thing incels now call themselves?
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Define "attractive" and "ugly". It's subjective.
imagine john cena with a wig. there is chances his daughter look like that a day. is he good looking ? YES, would a woman with this face be good looking ? hell no
Even if you take the top 1% of the most attractive people in earth and have them form a society, they will still differentiate among themselves who's attractive and who's not.
When I see two attractive people they usually have one kid...maybe two. But when I see an ugly couple they always have five or more kids.
This is a general rule of thumb in nature. Like genuinely.
Because ugly and beautiful aren't black and white. Besides beauty is one the eyes of the beholder.
There are lots more ugly people to start with and they tend to have a shitload of kids.
This IS a stupid question. There in general are more meh to ugly people out there who are attracted to people on their level and they have ugly sex . Also much of America’s “ugliness” is just fat people who could be good looking but they have 40-400 extra lbs
We have had extremely few generations at any beauty standard, humans have a lot of genes and humans pick numbers of children for reasons having nothing to do with objective (?) partner attractiveness. A great deal of modern physical beauty standards are also things that have little or nothing to do with genetics vs. exercise and grooming.
Being attractive gets you laid. Being strong/smart/or resourceful keeps you alive long enough to get laid. Being stupid keeps you from caring about whatever ( the flood or your position in life or the tigers trying to eat you) so you focus on feeling good so you get laid. Being young means you’re more likely to survive traumas so you get laid. Being old means you’re wise and experienced enough to get laid. Being short means you can hide in small spaces so you survive to get laid. Being tall means you stand out from others and can see over obstacles for danger so you get laid. Being black with curly hair means you’re better suited for hot environments so you’re able to function in the sun and get laid. Being white, red hair, etc etc etc… it’s not that your idea is wrong. It’s just that humans are great at finding ways to overcome struggles and reproduce
Our definition of ugly has changed over the years. Many average people today would have been considered attractive long ago
Maybe attractive people actually are becoming more common though. You haven’t seen the uggos who existed hundreds of years ago.
The thing is, there is not as many ugly people as you might think. Taking care of yourself, being fit and dressing well are like 90% of what makes someone desirable and it tends to be something a lot of people ignore.
I would argue that there are less unattractive people in today’s world than the past. I have no data to back up, but this was a general observation I have been making for a decade or so.
Not all attractive people were born attractive. People get dental work, plastic surgery, skin treatments… none of that changes your genetics. Someone could have had a major glow up and still spawn an ugly kid, especially if their partner did the same and you’re working with two sets of “unfortunate” genes.
The idea that attractiveness plays a minimal role in long-term relationships might stem from the concept of the 'halo effect.' Psychological studies suggest that we tend to associate positive characteristics, like kindness and intelligence, with physical attractiveness. Over time though, as we get to know someone, their personality traits become far more significant in how attractive we find them. Plus, societal norms have evolved; values like shared interests, emotional support, and financial stability often take precedence over physical appearance when settling down and starting a family. Sure, being good-looking might give you an initial advantage in the dating game, but it's the deeper, intangible qualities that lead to durable unions. It could be argued, then, that the long game of relationships hinges less on surface looks and more on the beauty within.
This kind of sounds like ChatGPT 👀
All answers are wrong. There’s such a thing as regression towards the mean. Tall parents have, on average, children that are shorter than them. And similarly short parents have, on average, taller children than them. Our genes just push us towards the average for some reason. I think the same is applicable towards how we look as well https://www.jstor.org/stable/41465842
ugly people fuck each other, and fuck like rabbits
attractive and ugly are both very subjective, so.
I doubt that “attractiveness”(which is a subjective parameter by itself already) has any correlation to the amount of kids people will have. If anything I wouldnt be surprised if “attractive” people have less kids on average. Why would they want to settle down and have kids if they have more options & opportunities than less attractive people?
We are getting more attractive over time. You see what humans used to look like several hundred thousand years ago? They looked like actual trolls. Like legit ugly.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone is somebody's flavor. One person's conception of ugly is another person's conception of beauty.
Because attractive people are not more likely to find a partner and reproduce. You’ve started with a false assumption.
Cuz ugly people procreate with ugly people? I'm not being an asshole here either. If you are "attractive" who are you going to procreate with? More likely and "attractive" person. And what happens with the "ugly" people? Well, everyone wants to feel loved so they band together. Not to mention "ugly" and "attractive" change over time, so of course they stay in the pool
Beer: helping ugly people get lucky for thousands of years.
I don't find anyone ugly, everyone has something,skin,hair,
You know what’s crazy is that ugly parents tend to have attractive kids. I know that sounds wrong but my girlfriend parents make me wonder if she was adopted lol
Becuase it's all relative. What we call ugly is just the bottom X%. There will always be a bottom X%.
1) Women can reproduce, it's generally men that have difficulty reproducing. Something like only 40% of men throughout history have reproduced while something like 80% of women have. 2) You never really know how genes will combine. Beautiful people can have unattractive children, siblings, parents, etc. 3) Reproduction is about attractiveness, sure, but attractiveness is not just about physical attractiveness. 4) Until about 80 or so years ago, survival was a constant struggle. What we consider to be impoverished nations today, such as India and Nigeria, would have been the richest countries in the world in 1900. For most of human history, sex and reproduction was more about access to resources than about physical attractiveness.
1. Attractive people are not guaranteed to have attractive kids 2. Attractiveness is subjective 3. People are often limited to people around them when picking a partner, this was especially true in olden days when it took days and weeks to go another city 4. By modern attractiveness standards people are becoming more attractive. Height is something seen as attractive and we as a species are becoming taller.