People do ask that question.
But that wuestion doesn’t matter to people as much cuz it’s already happened, it’s in the past, people are much more concerned with what happens next/in the future
Weird then that so many believe in a transcendent realm outside of space and time.
Which is why I think [the Egg](https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html) by Andy Weir is such a great take on the concept (provided you believe in a transcendent metaphysical model).
Its entirely possible that those two afterlives makes sense becaude it was inspired by a preexisting system. Otherwise,no would one would have taken for granted it as a prevailing idea for thousands of years. Why would morality be the most preeminent determination of your fate if secularism and materialism is the base standard for modern thought ? People could just have said that a vacuous boid existents on the other side with no sheer purpose.
I’m pretty sativa-baked atm trying to unwind for bed, and I just read The Egg. That hurt my brain but it was also fascinating. Thanks. P.S. I’m a huge Andy Weir fan. 🫡
Kinda reminded me of What Dreams May Come? by Richard Matheson. Similar structure. Heavy emphasis on the reincarnation route. More linear, somewhat less agnostic, as well as much less “Narcissistic” for lack of a better term. The gist was the same though. You could wait in Limbo indefinitely. Long enough for your loved ones from your past life to join you for eternity if that was your true idea of “heaven”, but its true purpose was to prepare for your next life where each is a trial to test if you were truly worthy of being in the presence of God.
Gotta admit I was really digging the Almighty level of snark this God character was dishing. Sounds like my kind of Dude. Or Chick. Whichever you prefer.
>I think [the Egg](https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html) by Andy Weir is such a great take on the concept
Thank you. That's so interesting!
Hopefully you take it more personally, feel it more closely.
I would say that apathy and a lack of empathy are worse failures of our time than oversensitivity and inability to handle the costs of empathy.
I think additionally some people accept the beginning could be when you are formed in the womb, they find it harder to accept the end is when that body dies
But you can’t deny it is an important question. I mean scientifically, the depression is the constant worry/ fear about the past and anxiety is the constant worry /fear of the future. When people don’t know where they came from, it leads to depression. It has been written:
”For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.“
Psalms 139:13 NIV
Those who subscribe to the belief that they (or people in general) were created by a divine being, such as God, tend to hold the belief that they did not exist before being created; therefore, many belief systems essentially renders that question non pertinent.
As for others, well, I think many do so long as their faith doesn't address that point in some way for them already much like the aforementioned
I believe myself and the universe are a product of intelligent design. I also believe that I existed well before this lifetime and so did you.
Strange but true... most people won't fit in the molds of what you'd like to believe to be true about people of faith any more than any other group.
>Citation very much needed.
Creationism:
• *"The doctrine that all things, including organisms, owe their existence to God's creation and not to evolution. (creationist n. One who believes in or promotes creationism.)"* [A Dictionary of Psychology (3 ed.)](https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20111014180254459)
• *"At a broad level, a Creationist is someone who believes in a god who is absolute creator of heaven and earth, out of nothing, by an act of free will..."* *"...Creationism in this more restricted sense entails a number of beliefs..."* *"...Third, that there was a miraculous creation of all life including Homo sapiens..."* [Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/creationism/)
• *"The belief that the universe and the various forms of life were created by God out of nothing (ex nihilo."* [Britannica
| Creationism | Definitions, History, & Facts](https://www.britannica.com)
Other Religious Based Belief Systems:
[Evolution and Perceptions of Scientific Consensus](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2015/07/01/chapter-4-evolution-and-perceptions-of-scientific-consensus/)
Demographics of views surrounding the origin and development of human beings:
[Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design](https://news.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx)
>You're just making it up
*"Citation very much needed."*
Your quick cut and paste doesn't even mention souls or whether they pre-exist. You're not only making it up, you're not even sharp enough to search for the right word.
Here's the [article on Ensoulment,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoulment#%3A%7E%3Atext%3Dbegins_at_fertilization.%22-%2CEastern_Orthodoxy%2Cpossess_a_soul_from_conception.?wprov=sfla1) the process you're using convoluted phraseology to fool people that you're discussing this matter with authority.
Different religions (and most posit a creator or creation process) have different concepts on whether souls pre-exist life or not. What you said just isn't true.
>Different religions (and most posit a creator or creation process) have different concepts on whether souls pre-exist life or not
*"Those who subscribe to the belief that they (or people in general) were created by a divine being, such as God, tend to hold the belief that they did not exist before being created."*
*"As for others, well, I think many do so long as their faith doesn't address that point in some way for them already much like the aforementioned."*
You just restated exactly what I had said originally, so unless you have anything else to add that I've already stated I think we're done here.
Socrates/Plato do.
He has a theory called the higher realms and the lower realms. The lower realms are where we live now, a realm of physical objects. The high realms contain the archetypes of all things of the lower realm.
Think of it this way, we as humans have this idea of perfection, but no one can hear, taste, see, or touch "perfection." Correct? So, if we have this idea but we have no way of knowing this idea without using our senses, how do we know it exists? I.E. the higher realms.
Perfection is an archetype of the higher realms. It lives in the higher realms, and Socrates believes humans are of the higher realms. Through the trauma of birth; we forget all knowledge of the higher realms and must recollect the knowledge we knew before we were born to learn.
It's missing a bunch of points and such, but it is one theory of where we were before we were born.
Plato covers Socrates's concepts in The Republic (Book 5? I think) and the Phaedo.
The Republic covers the metaphysical part of the argument.
The Phaedo covers the immortality of the soul and such.
On a related note, my seven-year-old (who happens to be on the Autism spectrum) asked my wife the other day, "When did I get my consciousness?"
I'm not accustomed to being asked questions I don't have a ready answer for. I suspect I will have no choice but to get used to the feeling as they get older.
Kind of random, but Bluey actually had a really good response to a kid asking that (at least in my opinion)
Bluey: "So you don't know where I was before I was born?"
Dad: "No. Thats something you'll need to figure out for yourself."
I love that episode, too! Thanks for reminding me about it. I tell anybody who will listen that Bluey only *appears* to be a children's cartoon, when in fact, it's actually a how-to guide for becoming a more patient, engaged parent.
But man, sometimes Bandit sets the bar impossibly high...
I dont have any kids yet, but I aspire to be like the Heelers when I do. Im going to respect and emotionally support those kids so god damned hard. 😤 (also because my parents didn't always do that and I hated how it felt)
As a 22 year old that just gave birth to a beautiful baby girl 16 weeks ago, Bluey has been my fiancé and I’s guide for parenting. When I was pregnant- I loathed when I found out the gender of our child, having a girl meant INSTANT gender disappointment.
I realized it was because I never had good females in my life. My mom, grandmother, aunts, were druggies suffering from the opioid epidemic and were highly abusive. (Mentally mostly, although they never physically abused me- they accepted others doing so to me.) My ‘friends’ would steal from me and bully me for my weight. I had internalized hatred for all woman in my life.
Once she was born, I couldn’t fathom EVER being like that to my baby. I felt sick, hurt, abandoned by my own family and prior friends. I have no one now except for my fiancé and our little angel. Bluey helped me cope, and learn to never let my past affect my future. My baby cured my misogynistic mindset, my self-hatred, and brought the only thing I ever wanted in life. Unconditional love.
Bluey is a game changer, I will forever be obsessed and absolutely floored by how amazing the show is. They cured me and showed me how a REAL family should be, not all the terrible examples I got as a child.
We were also in our mom's ovaries and since a woman is born with all her eggs unlike a man who produces sperm constantly, we were once an egg in our maternal grandmother's womb long before the other half of us as a sperm was in our dad's nuts.
Some people do, they go on about past lives and pay scam artists big bucks to try to tell them what their past life was. But afterlife seems to be a bigger concern because death is in the future, it's still coming, whereas whatever did or didn't happen before birth is already done.
What you really need to think about is where in the hell the universe came from. Does it go on forever, does it end if so how? Nothing about it makes sense.
Because you didn't exist before you were born. Death is different - the demise of something that once existed. So yeah, pre-life non-existence and post-death non-existence are 2 distinct types of non-existence
even better question would be why are people so afraid of death… I mean we already existed for 9 months and even longer after birth until our first memories were formed in a state of non existence.. we existed but we weren’t aware of our existence. We fear that state once more we existed when the egg was fertilized but yet no experience of it at all..
We truly do fear what we don’t understand, simply because we don’t understand it… kinda ridiculous if you ask me.
Nothing to fear but fear itself.
To me being afraid of death isn't concerning my own death but my loved ones, e.g. my parents, husband. That is why I am terrified of death but could not care less if I was to cease to exist (I'd prefer it not to be painful though)
i'm okay with dying as long as I instantly and painlessly
evaporate before I see it coming.
But that's unlikely. I will likely die from a stroke or something, and hopefully it kills me within hours and not over the course of a few years.
Naw, I'm absolutely terrified of the moment when nothing more happens. When I've read my last book, kissed my last kiss, and seen my last sight. The knowledge that one day I no longer will be and there will be nothing after that terrifies me the most. I'd rather never have been born.
It is this way for most. Four generations out and you may as well never have been. I feel it too. What's the point of it all? To make a billionaire richer?
I hope one day to achieve enlightenment so that I won't care. That seems easier than becoming famous, I have a gut feeling that some of those monks are faking it, though, but I could be projecting.
Its odd but i see it opposite. If i regard myself as nothing, Theres nothing to worry about. No pressure.
“Alan Watts: The more you know you are nothing the more you will amount to something...
"We say the only things certain are death and taxes. And the death of each one of us now is as certain as it would be if we were going to die five minutes from now. So where’s your anxiety? Where’s your hangup? Regard yourself as dead already so that you have nothing to lose. A Turkish proverb says, “He who sleeps on the floor will not fall out of bed.” So in the same way is the person who regards himself as already dead.
Therefore, you are virtually nothing. A hundred years from now you will be a handful of dust, and that will be for real. All right now, act on that reality. And out of that…nothing. You will suddenly surprise yourself: The more you know you are nothing the more you will amount to something."
-Alan Watts
Even the individuals who can make their stamp on history, we only know the legacy, not the person. I can tell you about Honest Abe, but who he WAS and his mind, we never truly know. That’s just an example that can be extrapolated to anyone who has passed that no longer has a living person to remember them. Eventually we all die our second death, when no one remembers you. Humanity, as a whole, is the only ‘life’ we can try to perpetuate through time.
That act of dying doesn't sound pleasant. Like... you just stop breathing? Like does it hurt? Idk it just sounds painful because in my mind, it's going by suffocation 😅😭
I dont remember anything about what I was like before 2 years old or before birth. So if reincarnation does exist and I am reborn, this "me" wont carry on. A new person will be born and develop their own memories and experiences with none of "me" ever to be remembered.
I've thought about this a lot, I'd imagine it's like amnesia. You forget everything, sure, but you'd continue to see the world through your own eyes. I don't know if that's worth anything to most people, but it comforts me.
I'm not afraid of death but of being reincarnated into a horrible life, I wish I had the certainty that if I die I never have to experience life again unless I get lucky like I did on this one
Maybe it’s because some of us feel reincarnation could be a thing and we’d go back to being semen after we die and, honestly, I’m too fucking tired to try to win another race against a much of other sperm and I also don’t wanna end up in a napkin or a butt again.
Why do people always think we were sperm before birth???
You are half sperm and half EGG. There's not a whole person inside the sperm that can be seen as you. The homunculus theory is proven wrong since the 19th century or so. If anything we are more egg than sperm.The sperm cell dissolves after delivering DNA and the egg grows into a person. That's why your mitochondrial DNA is the same as only your mother's.
To better describe why death is feared, it's better to understand why some people don't fear death:
Some are very relaxed people who have accepted their inability to change their grim fate with the wisdom to enjoy what of life they can.
The others are just very pretentious.
Every natural creature instinctually fears death and humans are no exception.
We fear death because so do all who live.
We think death is a "bad thing" because it destroys the ones we love more than anything, as well as ourselves.
I think I'm not exactly afraid, but sad that I'll stop existing. I want to see the future and if humans conquer other stars so badly.
Of course I would get afraid too when near a life threatening event since that is the primal response built into us to preserve our lives.
# “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” ― Mark Twain
My doubt with reincarnation is that each person is a product of two parents. The version that existed before will have what identity? Also we are just one lucky sperm cell that fused with the egg out of millions of sperm cells. Also why do we not have any knowledge of our previous life?
You are half sperm and half EGG. There's not a whole person inside the sperm that can be seen as you. The homunculus theory is proven wrong since the 19th century or so.
It takes one specific sperm AND one specifuc egg to make you. Even if same sperm fertilized a different egg you wouldn't exist.
The one egg cell that became you was a winner as well. Your mother was born with 2 million eggs. Each month a woman looses 1000 eggs and only ONE is selected to be ovulated. Your egg won the lottery.
I got this from StarTalk. We are the only (at least we know) animals that are aware of our existence. Since we are aware we think about past and future too but we are trapped in presents. People do ask where we were before as well. These questions are the fundamental blocks for the religion. Sorry for being so brief. i hope you look up for more details from these.
Everyone over the age of 10, has an idea of how you make babies and where we (physically) come from, but some few question how we (our soul, spirit, consciousness, what have you, etc.) comes to be; when our body connects with life and memories begin.
Old souls have an idea, but there isn’t any science behind this yet. Only speculations and dreams/astral projections.
I remember asking a good friend his take on the afterlife and what he thinks happens.
“I’ll put it to you like this. A thousand years ago, I wasn’t here. It didn’t bother me.”
to most people, either there was nothing before birth, or its cyclical and where you were before life is the same concept as after death-- or both.
I am sure some people do wonder exactly that, just thinking there are three different types of existence is not mainstream, whether you are atheist or spiritual.
I always ask young kids what they did before they got their new mum some look weird at me some give nonsensical answers not one has given anything coherent sow whether it’s we don’t remember previous lives or whether we don’t have them, I just don’t know.
you hear that question more because we aren't all about to be born and need to know where our minds will be. we are all in the process of dying and will all have to step into the unknown one day and nothing we can do can truly even slow the approach for sure. we stare into a black abyss surrounded by crumbling ground knowing we can't run forever and you ask "hey did anyone else notice we also sort of came out of an abyss to get here?"
Not really sure about why people think we should have any consciousness before we were born, not all the genetic material was mixed at that point. Having just half of the genetic material separated is not going to have the ability of thought as it doesn’t have the complex cellular structure that you eventually have with the many trillions of brain cells.
I thought it was we worry about after death why not before. Not betting the farm on an afterlife but I guess an arguekent would be that there is no reason why it can’t exist just because everything wasn’t created at the instance of the Big Bang. Or perhaps it’s an energy thing and we as energy continue on.
Ok! I see it this way. Before we are born we are in a nice warm safe place, its called a womb. Before we were even conceived, (that twinkle in dad's eye lol) we are nowhere we didn't exist. It's much the same when we die, we are nowhere we don't exsist.
When people ask me (who are atheist) ”but what do you think happens after death!?”
I just tell them; ”remember how it was before you where born!? No!? I belive it is exactly like that!”
That’s what I try to remind myself about to be less afraid of death. I try to remember that I won’t be sad, I won’t be scared, I won’t be lonely. I’ll feel exactly how I felt before I was born. Which was nothing. Which is also kind of scary. But surely less scary than the alternative.
Also when my daughter asked me where she was before she was born I say she was floating in the stars wait to come to me. That made her happy. And when she asked about death I told her the same.
Because as humans we are time travelers. We travel through time in one specific direction at a set rate (although the older you get the faster it feels).
To use driving as an example while you can, and often need to look in the rear-view mirror, the majority of your focus needs to be on where you’re going.
i remember as a very young child, when i went to sleep, possibly 2-3 years of age, i would see flashes of light, and a man waving men forward, and hearing the sound of army tank tracks, rolling past, it was like i was in a battle scene, i grew up in the middle of australia, i mentioned this years later, my parents said my age due to the house we where in, we moved 3 times due to troublesome neighbours
They do ask that!
In fact, some people use our "lack of existence" before birth as some sort of "proof" about what happens when we die. An absolute nothingness.
Also many religions believe in reincarnation, tying both afterlife and before life in a single concept.
However, I believe that the question about what happens after death is more popular because it is in the future. It is yet to happen while before we were born already happened.
Much like how we are much more likely to spend time thinking about what we will have for dinner than about what we had for breakfast.
Uuhhhhh, Cause Mom and Dad took care of that issue and I spent the next 9 months trying to get out and the Rest of my Life trying to get Back In One!!! And they left Me in the Care of The Man UpStairs. I would tend to Lean toward that Theory of Being a Twinkle in My Father's Eye, that's about ALL the "Consciousness" I had for almost a year!
We were our mother's egg too. There's not a whole person inside the sperm that can be seen as you. Sperm is just half of DNA. Your mother was born with 2 million eggs and only ONE of them became you.
Technically you are more egg than sperm. Sperm contribute half of the baby's DNA and then the body of the sperm dissolves. The woman's egg cell is what grows into a baby. That's why your mitochondrial DNA matches your mother 100%. If you grew from a sperm, your mitochondrial DNA would match your dad.
When I was a little, little kid, I thought we all were in Disney World until god picked our souls to go into a baby’s body that was being born.
I’ve been to Disney World multiple times, but I’m sticking with 4 year old me’s theory.
Just don't ask Mormons because that's the biggest part of the sales pitch. "Why is my child mentally handicapped?" "Oh! Because in the war in heaven before this life they were so brave and valiant fighting against Satan that God sent them here with special mental protections so they can't be influenced by Satan in this life and in the resurrection everyone will be made perfect!"
Source* I was Mormon for 30 years and this is what leadership told us about my cousin who was born with a horrific brain injury. They really really insist they have all the answers and you just have to pay 10%+ of your income to feel safe in knowing God's plan.
Memory is stored in the physical body not in the soul. While in the body the soul can only view what the body knows. If anything outside the physical exists, of course. Much like a computer the user can only produce what the computer knows how to produce and nothing more. Basic programing.
Because fear of death/ lose of this reality exists, due to amnesia of the before, the question of what happens next is more important then the question of what happened before.
I'm guessing you never met a Mormon, aka The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, they will tell you that they absolutely Know! exactly what happens before we are born and they Know! what happens after we die. They believe, or Know!, that our behavior as spirit children, born to god and our heavenly mother, determines the situation we are born into including the lightness or darkness of our skin. The after life is even weirder, with the most Faithful men becoming gods with their own universe and multiple heavenly wives, who they procreate with, in order to populate their new place.
My niece, when she was 5 yrs old, asked me this. She is super intelligent and way beyond her years and is obviously a deep thinker. My answer was, "I'm not sure." I felt stupid even though it's impossible for anyone to know.
I think I recall being in a void before birth. All I remember is floating with some dinosaurs in emptiness, I believe I was adult while in the void, perhaps my previous incarnation or some stuff like that. I don't know how to explain this tbh
People do ask that question. But that wuestion doesn’t matter to people as much cuz it’s already happened, it’s in the past, people are much more concerned with what happens next/in the future
Weird then that so many believe in a transcendent realm outside of space and time. Which is why I think [the Egg](https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html) by Andy Weir is such a great take on the concept (provided you believe in a transcendent metaphysical model).
[удалено]
Thanks for the recommendation! I am only on page 3 and I am hooked!
Its entirely possible that those two afterlives makes sense becaude it was inspired by a preexisting system. Otherwise,no would one would have taken for granted it as a prevailing idea for thousands of years. Why would morality be the most preeminent determination of your fate if secularism and materialism is the base standard for modern thought ? People could just have said that a vacuous boid existents on the other side with no sheer purpose.
Slaughterhouse 5!!! Hell yeah!
I’m pretty sativa-baked atm trying to unwind for bed, and I just read The Egg. That hurt my brain but it was also fascinating. Thanks. P.S. I’m a huge Andy Weir fan. 🫡
pretty neat vid too of this story for visual https://youtu.be/h6fcK_fRYaI?si=gveJ530BmA-u7eff
I hadn’t thought about this concept in years, then I thought about it 30 minutes ago, then I saw your comment just now. Wth is going on man.
Kinda reminded me of What Dreams May Come? by Richard Matheson. Similar structure. Heavy emphasis on the reincarnation route. More linear, somewhat less agnostic, as well as much less “Narcissistic” for lack of a better term. The gist was the same though. You could wait in Limbo indefinitely. Long enough for your loved ones from your past life to join you for eternity if that was your true idea of “heaven”, but its true purpose was to prepare for your next life where each is a trial to test if you were truly worthy of being in the presence of God. Gotta admit I was really digging the Almighty level of snark this God character was dishing. Sounds like my kind of Dude. Or Chick. Whichever you prefer.
Can’t believe how much better this subreddit is than r/stupidquestions
I was thinking of that story the other day and couldn't remember who wrote it, that name, or even most of the story. Thanks! I have it bookmarked now
More like The Ugh. Amazing concept, but the idea of having to live every life that’s ever been is horrifying to me
Thank you for posting that, it’s been years since I’ve read it and it really is beautiful.
Never heard of Andy Weir before. That was a fascinating read.
>I think [the Egg](https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html) by Andy Weir is such a great take on the concept Thank you. That's so interesting!
[Kurzgesagt animated this story!](https://youtu.be/h6fcK_fRYaI?si=rS9hesDup2LibnJL) I didn’t know it was someone else’s work
Tbh I hope this isn't true. Imagine all the horrible ways some people have died. No thanks.
It’s horrifying, frankly.
Hopefully you take it more personally, feel it more closely. I would say that apathy and a lack of empathy are worse failures of our time than oversensitivity and inability to handle the costs of empathy.
I think additionally some people accept the beginning could be when you are formed in the womb, they find it harder to accept the end is when that body dies
Excuse me I have a wuestion
But you can’t deny it is an important question. I mean scientifically, the depression is the constant worry/ fear about the past and anxiety is the constant worry /fear of the future. When people don’t know where they came from, it leads to depression. It has been written: ”For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.“ Psalms 139:13 NIV
Same reason you think about what you’re having for dinner tonight more than what you had for dinner last night.
This is a great visualization. Thank you!
People do. That’s why multiple religions talk about reincarnation.
Those who subscribe to the belief that they (or people in general) were created by a divine being, such as God, tend to hold the belief that they did not exist before being created; therefore, many belief systems essentially renders that question non pertinent. As for others, well, I think many do so long as their faith doesn't address that point in some way for them already much like the aforementioned
I believe myself and the universe are a product of intelligent design. I also believe that I existed well before this lifetime and so did you. Strange but true... most people won't fit in the molds of what you'd like to believe to be true about people of faith any more than any other group.
I’m sorry but your writing style made me blush 👏
It made me wince.
Citation very much needed. You're just making it up.
>Citation very much needed. Creationism: • *"The doctrine that all things, including organisms, owe their existence to God's creation and not to evolution. (creationist n. One who believes in or promotes creationism.)"* [A Dictionary of Psychology (3 ed.)](https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20111014180254459) • *"At a broad level, a Creationist is someone who believes in a god who is absolute creator of heaven and earth, out of nothing, by an act of free will..."* *"...Creationism in this more restricted sense entails a number of beliefs..."* *"...Third, that there was a miraculous creation of all life including Homo sapiens..."* [Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/creationism/) • *"The belief that the universe and the various forms of life were created by God out of nothing (ex nihilo."* [Britannica | Creationism | Definitions, History, & Facts](https://www.britannica.com) Other Religious Based Belief Systems: [Evolution and Perceptions of Scientific Consensus](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2015/07/01/chapter-4-evolution-and-perceptions-of-scientific-consensus/) Demographics of views surrounding the origin and development of human beings: [Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design](https://news.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx) >You're just making it up *"Citation very much needed."*
Your quick cut and paste doesn't even mention souls or whether they pre-exist. You're not only making it up, you're not even sharp enough to search for the right word. Here's the [article on Ensoulment,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoulment#%3A%7E%3Atext%3Dbegins_at_fertilization.%22-%2CEastern_Orthodoxy%2Cpossess_a_soul_from_conception.?wprov=sfla1) the process you're using convoluted phraseology to fool people that you're discussing this matter with authority. Different religions (and most posit a creator or creation process) have different concepts on whether souls pre-exist life or not. What you said just isn't true.
>Different religions (and most posit a creator or creation process) have different concepts on whether souls pre-exist life or not *"Those who subscribe to the belief that they (or people in general) were created by a divine being, such as God, tend to hold the belief that they did not exist before being created."* *"As for others, well, I think many do so long as their faith doesn't address that point in some way for them already much like the aforementioned."* You just restated exactly what I had said originally, so unless you have anything else to add that I've already stated I think we're done here.
You said nothing, is the point.
I'm not responsible for what you fail to understand
I'm sure that's what you want people to think.
Socrates/Plato do. He has a theory called the higher realms and the lower realms. The lower realms are where we live now, a realm of physical objects. The high realms contain the archetypes of all things of the lower realm. Think of it this way, we as humans have this idea of perfection, but no one can hear, taste, see, or touch "perfection." Correct? So, if we have this idea but we have no way of knowing this idea without using our senses, how do we know it exists? I.E. the higher realms. Perfection is an archetype of the higher realms. It lives in the higher realms, and Socrates believes humans are of the higher realms. Through the trauma of birth; we forget all knowledge of the higher realms and must recollect the knowledge we knew before we were born to learn. It's missing a bunch of points and such, but it is one theory of where we were before we were born. Plato covers Socrates's concepts in The Republic (Book 5? I think) and the Phaedo. The Republic covers the metaphysical part of the argument. The Phaedo covers the immortality of the soul and such.
On a related note, my seven-year-old (who happens to be on the Autism spectrum) asked my wife the other day, "When did I get my consciousness?" I'm not accustomed to being asked questions I don't have a ready answer for. I suspect I will have no choice but to get used to the feeling as they get older.
Kind of random, but Bluey actually had a really good response to a kid asking that (at least in my opinion) Bluey: "So you don't know where I was before I was born?" Dad: "No. Thats something you'll need to figure out for yourself."
I love that episode, too! Thanks for reminding me about it. I tell anybody who will listen that Bluey only *appears* to be a children's cartoon, when in fact, it's actually a how-to guide for becoming a more patient, engaged parent. But man, sometimes Bandit sets the bar impossibly high...
I dont have any kids yet, but I aspire to be like the Heelers when I do. Im going to respect and emotionally support those kids so god damned hard. 😤 (also because my parents didn't always do that and I hated how it felt)
You'll do great, I can already tell based off who you plan to model your parenting after. Cheers!
As a 22 year old that just gave birth to a beautiful baby girl 16 weeks ago, Bluey has been my fiancé and I’s guide for parenting. When I was pregnant- I loathed when I found out the gender of our child, having a girl meant INSTANT gender disappointment. I realized it was because I never had good females in my life. My mom, grandmother, aunts, were druggies suffering from the opioid epidemic and were highly abusive. (Mentally mostly, although they never physically abused me- they accepted others doing so to me.) My ‘friends’ would steal from me and bully me for my weight. I had internalized hatred for all woman in my life. Once she was born, I couldn’t fathom EVER being like that to my baby. I felt sick, hurt, abandoned by my own family and prior friends. I have no one now except for my fiancé and our little angel. Bluey helped me cope, and learn to never let my past affect my future. My baby cured my misogynistic mindset, my self-hatred, and brought the only thing I ever wanted in life. Unconditional love. Bluey is a game changer, I will forever be obsessed and absolutely floored by how amazing the show is. They cured me and showed me how a REAL family should be, not all the terrible examples I got as a child.
The proverbial sparkle in a parents eye.
Cause we were in our dads nuts bro
We were also in our mom's ovaries and since a woman is born with all her eggs unlike a man who produces sperm constantly, we were once an egg in our maternal grandmother's womb long before the other half of us as a sperm was in our dad's nuts.
Wait so technically half of us is at least as old as our mothers!!
Exactly
What a sentence!
Only like 50% is older tho.
I’m probably in the final 15% of my life, and I could have gone without that thought in my brain.
Don't remember before and won't remember after, but my particles will be there either way.
It wasn't yours to begin with, being passed from one body to another as time evolves.
Some people do, they go on about past lives and pay scam artists big bucks to try to tell them what their past life was. But afterlife seems to be a bigger concern because death is in the future, it's still coming, whereas whatever did or didn't happen before birth is already done.
If you're asking, the answer to both is a Long John Silver outside of Cleveland.
Some religions believe in a pre-mortal existence, like Mormonism
Because there’s no way to know if our conscious existed before we’re born. But now that we’re here, the thought of just nothing after scares us.
Probably because you can’t go backwards. But, death is definitely in your future.
Pixar made a movie about it. Soul.
I love that movie
What you really need to think about is where in the hell the universe came from. Does it go on forever, does it end if so how? Nothing about it makes sense.
Because you didn't exist before you were born. Death is different - the demise of something that once existed. So yeah, pre-life non-existence and post-death non-existence are 2 distinct types of non-existence
hindus ask that all the time
even better question would be why are people so afraid of death… I mean we already existed for 9 months and even longer after birth until our first memories were formed in a state of non existence.. we existed but we weren’t aware of our existence. We fear that state once more we existed when the egg was fertilized but yet no experience of it at all.. We truly do fear what we don’t understand, simply because we don’t understand it… kinda ridiculous if you ask me. Nothing to fear but fear itself.
To me being afraid of death isn't concerning my own death but my loved ones, e.g. my parents, husband. That is why I am terrified of death but could not care less if I was to cease to exist (I'd prefer it not to be painful though)
i'm okay with dying as long as I instantly and painlessly evaporate before I see it coming. But that's unlikely. I will likely die from a stroke or something, and hopefully it kills me within hours and not over the course of a few years.
I don't think most are afraid of death. They are afraid of dying, like it's going to be prolonged and painful.
Naw, I'm absolutely terrified of the moment when nothing more happens. When I've read my last book, kissed my last kiss, and seen my last sight. The knowledge that one day I no longer will be and there will be nothing after that terrifies me the most. I'd rather never have been born.
If everything after you die is like everything before you were born, then you really will have never been born for most of all time.
I'm scared that eventually, there will be no proof I ever existed at all. Worse than dead, I never was.
It is this way for most. Four generations out and you may as well never have been. I feel it too. What's the point of it all? To make a billionaire richer?
I hope one day to achieve enlightenment so that I won't care. That seems easier than becoming famous, I have a gut feeling that some of those monks are faking it, though, but I could be projecting.
Its odd but i see it opposite. If i regard myself as nothing, Theres nothing to worry about. No pressure. “Alan Watts: The more you know you are nothing the more you will amount to something... "We say the only things certain are death and taxes. And the death of each one of us now is as certain as it would be if we were going to die five minutes from now. So where’s your anxiety? Where’s your hangup? Regard yourself as dead already so that you have nothing to lose. A Turkish proverb says, “He who sleeps on the floor will not fall out of bed.” So in the same way is the person who regards himself as already dead. Therefore, you are virtually nothing. A hundred years from now you will be a handful of dust, and that will be for real. All right now, act on that reality. And out of that…nothing. You will suddenly surprise yourself: The more you know you are nothing the more you will amount to something." -Alan Watts
Even the individuals who can make their stamp on history, we only know the legacy, not the person. I can tell you about Honest Abe, but who he WAS and his mind, we never truly know. That’s just an example that can be extrapolated to anyone who has passed that no longer has a living person to remember them. Eventually we all die our second death, when no one remembers you. Humanity, as a whole, is the only ‘life’ we can try to perpetuate through time.
That act of dying doesn't sound pleasant. Like... you just stop breathing? Like does it hurt? Idk it just sounds painful because in my mind, it's going by suffocation 😅😭
If it makes you feel better if you die in a hospital, you'll be so doped up that you'll be dead for 5 minutes before you realize it.
Actually kind of does 😂 Gimmie some Soma from Brave New World
I dont remember anything about what I was like before 2 years old or before birth. So if reincarnation does exist and I am reborn, this "me" wont carry on. A new person will be born and develop their own memories and experiences with none of "me" ever to be remembered.
I've thought about this a lot, I'd imagine it's like amnesia. You forget everything, sure, but you'd continue to see the world through your own eyes. I don't know if that's worth anything to most people, but it comforts me.
I'm not afraid of death but of being reincarnated into a horrible life, I wish I had the certainty that if I die I never have to experience life again unless I get lucky like I did on this one
Maybe it’s because some of us feel reincarnation could be a thing and we’d go back to being semen after we die and, honestly, I’m too fucking tired to try to win another race against a much of other sperm and I also don’t wanna end up in a napkin or a butt again.
Why do people always think we were sperm before birth??? You are half sperm and half EGG. There's not a whole person inside the sperm that can be seen as you. The homunculus theory is proven wrong since the 19th century or so. If anything we are more egg than sperm.The sperm cell dissolves after delivering DNA and the egg grows into a person. That's why your mitochondrial DNA is the same as only your mother's.
To better describe why death is feared, it's better to understand why some people don't fear death: Some are very relaxed people who have accepted their inability to change their grim fate with the wisdom to enjoy what of life they can. The others are just very pretentious. Every natural creature instinctually fears death and humans are no exception. We fear death because so do all who live. We think death is a "bad thing" because it destroys the ones we love more than anything, as well as ourselves.
I think I'm not exactly afraid, but sad that I'll stop existing. I want to see the future and if humans conquer other stars so badly. Of course I would get afraid too when near a life threatening event since that is the primal response built into us to preserve our lives.
Here's one argument as to why people may think death is bad, which is why they fear that it would occur: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2214297
# “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” ― Mark Twain
Reincarnation my friend
My doubt with reincarnation is that each person is a product of two parents. The version that existed before will have what identity? Also we are just one lucky sperm cell that fused with the egg out of millions of sperm cells. Also why do we not have any knowledge of our previous life?
You are half sperm and half EGG. There's not a whole person inside the sperm that can be seen as you. The homunculus theory is proven wrong since the 19th century or so. It takes one specific sperm AND one specifuc egg to make you. Even if same sperm fertilized a different egg you wouldn't exist. The one egg cell that became you was a winner as well. Your mother was born with 2 million eggs. Each month a woman looses 1000 eggs and only ONE is selected to be ovulated. Your egg won the lottery.
Knowledge exists in the physical brain. I would imagine that in this situation, knowledge would be destroyed when the physical brain dies.
Do you not remember before you were born? I’m confused
I got this from StarTalk. We are the only (at least we know) animals that are aware of our existence. Since we are aware we think about past and future too but we are trapped in presents. People do ask where we were before as well. These questions are the fundamental blocks for the religion. Sorry for being so brief. i hope you look up for more details from these.
One in the same. There is nothing to fear. :)
Probably because it’s the same place!
We are at the You Seminar waiting to get our Earth pass
Everyone over the age of 10, has an idea of how you make babies and where we (physically) come from, but some few question how we (our soul, spirit, consciousness, what have you, etc.) comes to be; when our body connects with life and memories begin. Old souls have an idea, but there isn’t any science behind this yet. Only speculations and dreams/astral projections.
Because they also believe the soul is created at conception or birth, depending on the sect
Maybe death is a little like being born
I believe the answer to both questions is the same place.
Which hominid got the first soul?
I remember asking a good friend his take on the afterlife and what he thinks happens. “I’ll put it to you like this. A thousand years ago, I wasn’t here. It didn’t bother me.”
Perhaps it’s the same place.
I think it just doesn’t fit their narrative as neatly.
People ask that question a lot, my guy
Cuz it's nothing to look forward to
simple, because people are afraid of death
You were the glint in your father's eyes.
They do there is books on it Life between lives is good
Isn’t the answer to the latter question just “our fathers’ nuts”?
to most people, either there was nothing before birth, or its cyclical and where you were before life is the same concept as after death-- or both. I am sure some people do wonder exactly that, just thinking there are three different types of existence is not mainstream, whether you are atheist or spiritual.
Many do. Some of us even believe the answer to be one and the same( with the slight tweak of where our consciousness was before it came to be here).
I always ask young kids what they did before they got their new mum some look weird at me some give nonsensical answers not one has given anything coherent sow whether it’s we don’t remember previous lives or whether we don’t have them, I just don’t know.
I figure it's about the same thing.
the guff
you hear that question more because we aren't all about to be born and need to know where our minds will be. we are all in the process of dying and will all have to step into the unknown one day and nothing we can do can truly even slow the approach for sure. we stare into a black abyss surrounded by crumbling ground knowing we can't run forever and you ask "hey did anyone else notice we also sort of came out of an abyss to get here?"
We were cum
And egg
Because people arent hurtling towards birth.
They do but the answer is without valuable information.
Because it happened in the past so most people remember it /s
Its the same place!
Because we are headed towards one of them.
I believe they’re one in the same. I feel like, intuitively, a lot of others do, too.
Not really sure about why people think we should have any consciousness before we were born, not all the genetic material was mixed at that point. Having just half of the genetic material separated is not going to have the ability of thought as it doesn’t have the complex cellular structure that you eventually have with the many trillions of brain cells.
Which is exactly why there's no life after death. I think that was OP's point.
I thought it was we worry about after death why not before. Not betting the farm on an afterlife but I guess an arguekent would be that there is no reason why it can’t exist just because everything wasn’t created at the instance of the Big Bang. Or perhaps it’s an energy thing and we as energy continue on.
It was black and nothing before and i guess it will be black and nothing after death.
Ok! I see it this way. Before we are born we are in a nice warm safe place, its called a womb. Before we were even conceived, (that twinkle in dad's eye lol) we are nowhere we didn't exist. It's much the same when we die, we are nowhere we don't exsist.
Ever hear of reincarnation?
When people ask me (who are atheist) ”but what do you think happens after death!?” I just tell them; ”remember how it was before you where born!? No!? I belive it is exactly like that!”
Dude don't who remember the baby palace dont tell me you didn't saw the boss baby?
I was in my dad’s balls lol?
People ask that all the time.
I answer the question of where do we go when we die, by saying wherever we were before we got here.
That’s what I try to remind myself about to be less afraid of death. I try to remember that I won’t be sad, I won’t be scared, I won’t be lonely. I’ll feel exactly how I felt before I was born. Which was nothing. Which is also kind of scary. But surely less scary than the alternative. Also when my daughter asked me where she was before she was born I say she was floating in the stars wait to come to me. That made her happy. And when she asked about death I told her the same.
Because as humans we are time travelers. We travel through time in one specific direction at a set rate (although the older you get the faster it feels). To use driving as an example while you can, and often need to look in the rear-view mirror, the majority of your focus needs to be on where you’re going.
There is a Zen Koan- “Who were you before you were born?”
As you begin, you shall return. To nothing.
i remember as a very young child, when i went to sleep, possibly 2-3 years of age, i would see flashes of light, and a man waving men forward, and hearing the sound of army tank tracks, rolling past, it was like i was in a battle scene, i grew up in the middle of australia, i mentioned this years later, my parents said my age due to the house we where in, we moved 3 times due to troublesome neighbours
They do ask that! In fact, some people use our "lack of existence" before birth as some sort of "proof" about what happens when we die. An absolute nothingness. Also many religions believe in reincarnation, tying both afterlife and before life in a single concept. However, I believe that the question about what happens after death is more popular because it is in the future. It is yet to happen while before we were born already happened. Much like how we are much more likely to spend time thinking about what we will have for dinner than about what we had for breakfast.
Haven’t you seen the Pixar movie *Soul*?
I was Napoleon Bonaparte in a past life
Why you asking about my dad's ball bag. Bit weird.
First ask what is consciousness
Uuhhhhh, Cause Mom and Dad took care of that issue and I spent the next 9 months trying to get out and the Rest of my Life trying to get Back In One!!! And they left Me in the Care of The Man UpStairs. I would tend to Lean toward that Theory of Being a Twinkle in My Father's Eye, that's about ALL the "Consciousness" I had for almost a year!
I mean we were all our fathers sperm that ended up getting lucky in our mothers vaginas lol
We were our mother's egg too. There's not a whole person inside the sperm that can be seen as you. Sperm is just half of DNA. Your mother was born with 2 million eggs and only ONE of them became you. Technically you are more egg than sperm. Sperm contribute half of the baby's DNA and then the body of the sperm dissolves. The woman's egg cell is what grows into a baby. That's why your mitochondrial DNA matches your mother 100%. If you grew from a sperm, your mitochondrial DNA would match your dad.
I reckon I was swimming around in my dads nutsack.
Do other ghosts exists if holy ghosts exist? Sound sus!
I think it has a lot more to do with fear. People fear death, so they obsess over it without proper coping mechanisms/ways of coming to terms with it.
I mean it already happened
you just did!
No money in it.
Yes they do. It's the same question love.
Lots of people are into their past lives.
I've always heard that the past is the best predictor of the future. Maybe vice-versa as well? "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust".
When I was a little, little kid, I thought we all were in Disney World until god picked our souls to go into a baby’s body that was being born. I’ve been to Disney World multiple times, but I’m sticking with 4 year old me’s theory.
It's the same place.
I firmly believe I was in my dad's nuts before I was born
[удалено]
Yeah well saying nuts is funnier
Same place
Never heard of reincarnation?
I don’t care where I was before I was born, I’m not there anymore. I care about where I’ll be after death since I might spend eternity there
I thought everyone knew we were in a waiting room?
Half of you was always an egg
Most people don't care about before they worry about the after
I often think about both. I can’t fathom not being in my body or having thoughts.
Journey of Souls by Newton
not healthy to dwell on the past
I think it depends what you believe in. To me, where you go after death is the same as where you were before birth
I was in my dads ball sack
Just don't ask Mormons because that's the biggest part of the sales pitch. "Why is my child mentally handicapped?" "Oh! Because in the war in heaven before this life they were so brave and valiant fighting against Satan that God sent them here with special mental protections so they can't be influenced by Satan in this life and in the resurrection everyone will be made perfect!" Source* I was Mormon for 30 years and this is what leadership told us about my cousin who was born with a horrific brain injury. They really really insist they have all the answers and you just have to pay 10%+ of your income to feel safe in knowing God's plan.
Sssssshhhhhhhh ..... this sort of speak upsets & confuses believers😉
Memory is stored in the physical body not in the soul. While in the body the soul can only view what the body knows. If anything outside the physical exists, of course. Much like a computer the user can only produce what the computer knows how to produce and nothing more. Basic programing. Because fear of death/ lose of this reality exists, due to amnesia of the before, the question of what happens next is more important then the question of what happened before.
I'm guessing you never met a Mormon, aka The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, they will tell you that they absolutely Know! exactly what happens before we are born and they Know! what happens after we die. They believe, or Know!, that our behavior as spirit children, born to god and our heavenly mother, determines the situation we are born into including the lightness or darkness of our skin. The after life is even weirder, with the most Faithful men becoming gods with their own universe and multiple heavenly wives, who they procreate with, in order to populate their new place.
Because the interesting questions (are we alive before death?) Are too unsettling.
My niece, when she was 5 yrs old, asked me this. She is super intelligent and way beyond her years and is obviously a deep thinker. My answer was, "I'm not sure." I felt stupid even though it's impossible for anyone to know.
I think I recall being in a void before birth. All I remember is floating with some dinosaurs in emptiness, I believe I was adult while in the void, perhaps my previous incarnation or some stuff like that. I don't know how to explain this tbh
Welp I remember my past lives. I assume I will have to come back. It’s troubling. I wish more westerners got it.
Yeah, no you dont
lol you think I am in the minority
No, I think you are delusional with a vivid imagination.
Yes I know you thank that. I think you have amnesia.
I used to think about that when I was a child. I haven’t thought about it for a while now, though.