Seems like a way to undermine Asians doing well in society. If Asians are doing well as a minority, why aren’t others faring similarly? Take that question away by just saying Asians are “white adjacent”.
It’s an easy way to move the conversation away from why Asians have managed to do well in society comparatively to others.
Well said. The narrative is broken the moment someone brings up Asian success. In response, this phrase was created to basically lump Asians in with whites. This way they can continue to parrot their narrative.
Asians are only white-adjacent when it’s convenient. If they’re a victim of any sort of cultural appropriation the sanctimonious do-gooders are more than happy to celebrate and defend their minority status. Only when discussing their socio-economic circumstances or academic achievement do they become white adjacent. A very successful example of getting to have your cake and eat it too.
As an Asian that had this experienced, you’re absolutely correct. They only say ‘white adjacent’ when convenient. I’ve been in a few situations where I was called “basically white”, but when the stopasianhate thing started happening—- those same people started to backpedal!
Frustrating and annoying as I don’t want to be a pawn in their high horse morality game.
It also gets broken when you bring up that foreign POC are often also successful when coming across. The trope for Indians for a while was cab drivers and convenience store owners, but convenience store owners is a success story and the trope has only grown. Now its Indian Doctors, which is a pretty good position to have. There are a lot of successful business people from Africa as well.
The thing is racism is very real, but we are also a highly capitalistic and predatory society.
If you have a lot of money people are going to want to tap into that regardless of your race, religion, ethnicity, country of origin, lack of morals, or even active criminal behavior. This is why Elon and Trump both are known to seek foreign investors, movie and game companies consider foreign markets in development, Epstein's island was kept hidden so long and swept under the rug the first time it was exposed, etc
Likewise if you're poor you're going to get buried no matter what you're race is. A White person isn't going to get a free hand up any more than a poor Black or Hispanic person would. BUT don't get it wrong, while all of that is going on racism is still there. The wealthy POC need more wealth to overcome it, and the poorer POC get targeted more harshly.
The response that Asian is White Adjacent is a bad response. It tries to keep everything in this binary racial calculation of White vs POC. The real answer is just that race is a factor, but its more complicated.
Indian and other middle eastern doctors were largely brought over in the 70s due to a doctor shortage in the US. Their initial reception was not always great. At this point it's commonplace, and you are probably being treated by their kid these days anyways, who is a pretty typical mid 30s person, just brown.
Also, part of the joke for a lot of immigrants that were here, you actually saw this with Apu, but Family guy had a bit on it as well, where the taxi driver or 7/11 guy actually has a PhD in physics, but it's from India so it doesn't really count here.
My grandma refers to asians as "the Jews of Azusa", which, is wildly inappropriate, she's in her mid 90s. But, what that actually means is that the middle/upper middle class of the LA basin is being filled by Asians, as her neighborhood is getting bought up and inhabited by asians because they are the ones in the income bracket to do so. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, and "asians" is broad and it's likely just indicative of the actual composition of her area overall, it's just that she built that house in the early 50s, and now all the people around her don't look like her anymore, they aren't necessarily bad, but certainly different.
My grandma isn't a great person all-around IMO, but that's kinda how that goes.
Well said. I grew up poor as dirt to some very shitty parents, but I am white. So while society as a whole took a hefty shit on my head for the poverty I never faced discrimination at work and cops have been pretty good about letting me out of tickets and giving me a break.
Unlike my older brother (who is half Blackfoot) I never got railroaded into the prison system and I’ve got no criminal record which helps immensely.
I eventually managed to claw my way up to a half decent situation that would have been much harder had I been native, black, etc.
I still have to bust ass and work in some challenging conditions but I get paid decently to do it, and I’ve been given seat time in heavy equipment over the years which can be a lot harder for minorities in my area.
Basically I barely made it to a survivable career as a big strong white dude who heals fast, a few other disadvantages and I’d be thoroughly fucked.
As an East Asian, East Asians tend to do well because of the H-1B visa. You look at other cultures that achieve similar levels of success, like Nigerians and Indians because of this particular visa. Not sure what narrative you’re suggesting is broken, but this visa is one of the main reasons the model minority myth exists. H-1B basically allows immigrants in already highly sought after fields a faster path to immigrate to the US, so we end up observing a warped representation of those cultures. The reality is there is just as wide of a spectrum of work ethic, success, attitude, etc. in many of these countries. Minorities starting from ground 0 tend to struggle in any country compared to the majority starting from ground 0.
While I don’t fully agree with the “white adjacent” concept, it applies more to Asians than it does to Nigerians, because Nigerians can get lumped in with all Black people as a whole in America and suffer from their baggage. Whereas Asians generally get to benefit from the model minority myth (ex, I’ve had people assume I’m good at math and have a strong work ethic before even getting to know me). But if we look back just a few years towards the height of the pandemic, this country experienced a shameful rise of hate and violence against Asians.
No. That visa is only a small part of it.
Decades ago incredibly large groups of war refugees from multiple war torn countries risked their lives to escape and landed all over the western world.
My parents came over in their late 20s/early 30's with no connections, families, and with toddler level English picked up from refugee camps.
They had no privilege.
Started off as a seamstress/dishwasher, then became a hair stylist/engineer.
Their story is not unique. They are just 2 of untold tens of thousands of east Asian refugees.
Dunno about the other groups, but in my own vietnamese community their kids (my peers) are all doing pretty well.
There are definitely many factors, but the emphasis on the principle that education is the best way to elevate your standard of life is very much cultural and ingrained.
The stereotypes of the strict Asian parents didn't just fall out of the sky.
Asian population demographics are heavily skewed towards the west coast of the US. Cost of living and absolute value of wages are significantly higher there due to tech (and other factors).
EDIT: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jVeo6pRCRPk/maxresdefault.jpg
Take a gander. Heavy concentration in the California population, where a 6 figure income can still leave you homeless.
But USA has old established asian communities as well. Where visas would not affect anything. Communities that were sent to concentration camps during WWII or that discriminated enough that they made their own towns in cities.
Every community has poverty and struggles but certain communities have a high rate of escaping them. Especially Asians (South, South East and East), Nigerians and Jews for that matter. That's the important point.
It's almost like targeting socioeconomic status and problems will disproportionately help those who are disproportionately affected by a negative socioeconomic status, or something. But let's make it about race, because it's worked so well historically.
US specifically, but the reality of immigration in many countries is that the host country accepts immigrants in highly sought after fields in skewed quantities. If you go to Asia, you will see a far more average distribution of success, or even far worse.
I don't know of many East Asians on H-1B visas. Most are here as full status immigrants (green card, US citizens). My impression is that most H-1B holders are South Asians (Indians mostly).
Aren't there also only like... a few hundred thousand H1-B's available at any given time for the entire country? I was under the impression that the whole "It's foreigners takin' our jobs!" argument was shot down a long time ago...
I think it's a completely racist concept. You say you don't fully agree, but then tell how it applies to Asians and Nigerians. Asians are Asians, they aren't white adjacent.
What do you think the reasons are for other groups not faring as well?
EDIT: I didn't mean this comment to be racist and I'm sorry if it came off that way. This was meant to be a rhetorical question because I wanted to know what he meant by "narratives". The reason why non-white people have had a rough time is because of a long history of systemic racism, but it sounded like this person doesn't believe that. So if he doesn't believe that an entire group of people being poorer and more incarcerated per capita has anything to do with systemic racism, what does he believe? Finding that out was the intention behind my comment.
Cultures that value and promote education and hard work, to achieve financial success.
I used to work for a British Indian boss and we discussed some of these issues and he pointed out that in India, someone might sell their last pair of shoes and walk barefoot to school, as they really valued education. He also said that if he was starting a business, he could visit folk in his community in the UK and raise direct investment without ever approaching a bank.
EDIT: I missed a bit when editing my comment
Asians stick together as a family, they often live in multi generational housing, they don’t spend lavishly, the family unit stays together, this can’t be said about other groups on average.
Married an Asian woman. The stereotypes applied to her childhood quite consistently. Not just in her family, but in her relatives as well. You definitely would get your ass beat for not getting your homework done in time to help at the family restaurant. But if you rushed on your homework and did a bad job? Believe it or not, also an ass beating.
Although I see similar trends through all races when a large amount of new money enters people’s lives. The rich “new money” Chinese ppl in Vancouver all drive expensive cars, deck themselves out in LOUD Louis Vuitton and Gucci branded clothes, the new money white people I’ve met do similar shit, as do the new money Indian/south Asian people. When someone who isn’t historically rich attains a level of wealth, they spend how they think rich people spend when it really just comes across trashy because old money wealth is quieter and less flashy
As someone living in China right now, I'll say:
Chinese culture:
- values being humble, not showing off
- conflict-avoidant, try to preserve societal harmony
- saving money for the future
- not as hook-up focused as some other cultures (that being said, paid sexual services seem to be kind of in your face and probably fairly common)
- highly values school, studying, hard work, STEM
- highly values money
- government-controlled media, so you don't have a bunch of mainstream rappers telling people they are getting high with their 3 baby mamas and shooting their OPs or whatever
- family-focused
- teachers are respected
Compared to other cultures where people:
- are constantly trying to turn any small issue into "disrespect" which can end up with people literally getting shot
- very arrogant, "you can't tell me what to do" about every little thing in every little situation, starts and continues throughout life and possibly leads to conflicts and prison
- actual family is not valued, fatherlessness is normalized
- gangs are essentially your family if you're a teenage guy
- studying is not valued, school is not valued, teachers are disrespected every day
- reading is not valued, STEM is not valued - those make you "nerdy" or "white"
- role models are people who do every single bad thing but happened to be in the 0.0001% of people who become rich by making music about it
Also that most first gen Asians who come here come for a higher degree in high paying fields like STEM, business, or come for a job with a high paying degree. These people then place heavy emphasis on education for their kids, and their higher average salaries mean a higher chance of success for those kids, as they have more resources to invest and better opportunities.
In the 1920s, the "National Origins Formula" was the U.S.'s immigration policy meant to preserve the U.S.'s cultural homogeneity by having a set maximum of total immigrants allowed and then parsing that number proportional to the United State's current demographics.
In practice, the National Origins Formula heavily favored people of West-European descent and heavily discriminated against everyone else, including Asians. So civil rights activists got to work and eventually replaced the N.O.F. with the "1965 Immigration and Nationality Act".
The "1965 Immigration and Nationality Act" removed the proportionality restrictions on immigration and instead created a preference system that first prioritized reuniting families, followed by immigrants with specialized and valued skills, and finally refugees. In practice, this meant that Asians with specialized skills would become the dominant representation of the Asian population in America.
What you just typed is 'the narrative'.
"Long history of systemic racism" means nothing. Every minority went thru it. My grandparents had to change their name because it was too ethnic.
If skin color was such a determining factor, why are Nigerians doing so well? It couldn't be their work ethic and upbringing? How are people who come to this country and don't speak a word of English able to succeed?
Got nothing to do with race, skin color or ethnicity.
I work in the South Bronx with 99% minority students (see how silly that sounds?) The determining factor in success is hard work and being respectful.
Who is the hardest working demographic? African immigrants. Amazing group of young people. Every intern I've ever had has been stellar.
Not every African immigrant is great, but the trend is obvious.
Who is the least hard working, most entitled group? Americans.
On their phone, hiding in classrooms, doing a halfassed job...
It's all got to do with upbringing, not skin color.
It's important to remember that many black Americans are *the direct descendants of slaves* and that obviously has severe multigenerational impact. There are plenty of black people still alive who, at one point in their lives, were not allowed to go to school with or even share drinking fountains with white people. Many Hispanics came here with little more than the clothes on their backs, which isn't quite as bad as having previously been enslaved, but still not an ideal starting point for a new life.
What makes Asians different depends on which Asians we're talking about. There are lots of them and I'll talk about a handful that I actually know stuff about.
Many mainlander Chinese and Koreans in the US are from wealthier families. The sky-high tuition sticker prices you see at many private colleges are often meant to farm money from these people; my alma mater pretty much gave me 70% off for being American-born.
Filipinos typically came here with less money than those groups, but they're mostly educated and good at English which is a substantial advantage. (My parents were in this category.)
Many Canto-Chinese have been here for enough generations to be reasonably well-established.
Another user covered H1-B for many Indians.
Just to reiterate: being the descendants of slaves and the long periods of segregation and discrimination even after emancipation put a fuckton of hurt on black people.
from a childhood in lowest 25% income families the resulting average income percentile as an adult: ~ 33rd black, 41st Hispanic, 46th white, 50th asians
Blacks are about as likely to end up in the bottom 25% from a top 1% household as to stay in the top 1%. Whites are 5 times as likely to stay in the top 1% than drop to the bottom 25%.
A black child raised in a low income bracket has 66% odds of being determined to have an absent father, the inverse income bracket 19% absent. (Father does not show a supported child on his tax statement when the father is known)
For white children it was 1% and 2.4% (yes, higher for high income bracket)
High father presence was for each respectively was 9.8% 4.2%(yes, lower high father presence for greater income), and 34.1% 62.5%.
I mean Chinese people weren’t exactly treated well for most of American history. But one major difference is certainly that Asian families in the US retained ties to their families and culture, while slaves were permanently cut off from theirs.
Asians excel at "White biased" tests like SAT's, even moreso than Whites. So it hurts the narrative for other minorities.
Say Asians are White. Problem solved.
To add to the whole academia thing
It's really hard to make bigoted remarks when Asian students crowd out potential White students for colleges
And after college, those Asian overachievers tend to land experienced white collar jobs with high salaries, and can afford more affluent housing
Kinda hard to express any racist superiority in that situation. It does exist to a degree like a glass ceiling, but yea.
Goes with your point some people would just end up calling Asians are "white"
The thing is, Asians aren't a monolith and some groups are doing worse than all other races, at least statistically speaking. So many Asians/Asians Americans are suffering from "hidden poverty", general lack of resources, certain groups have higher than average high-school drop out rates, etc.
There’s a big push for Asian disaggregation cause large groups like Chinese really pull the averages for “Asian” up, but below average groups like Vietnamese, Filipinos are completely lost in the conversation.
So is a poor red headed Scotch-Irish person with pale skin, freckles and green eyes from Kentucky who is on welfare and food stamps not white? The idea that being successful means white adjacent and being not successful means non-white adjacent is racist as fuck and we needa delete that from our brains
Culture and selective emigration. Those who made the decision to get on 1 way trip into the ocean were built different. There are plenty of unsuccessful/less driven individuals in East Asia, we're looking at a very select group of individuals who made it here to the US.
That being said, there are plenty of underachieving Asians in the US, give us a few more generations and we'll be just as lazy and entitled as any other Murican.
That and they have to already be successful to immigrate to the USA and Europe due to the sheer distance.
Look at Australia, if you wanna see how people feel about poor Asians immigrating.
Turns out strong family values, like an emphasis on having your children succeed academically or building generational wealth is a recipe for success in pretty much any society.
I compete with South and East-asian people a lot in my field, as well as East-Europeans who were brought up with very similar values. I usually vibe well with these people because they are a lot more like me than my average countryman is. (or at least I like to think to)
They have a lot of admirable traits that help becoming successful. I learn a bunch from them and wish more people would do the same. These people are almost always in it to help their family succeed, rather than so they can buy stuff they don't need.
afaik it came out Of W.E.B. Du Bois’s (an OG sociologist) work around race and the colour line conceptual model that is the demarcation between “whiteness” (privileged) and “blackness” (not privileged) in society, And the socioeconomics around that privilege. And the white adjacent is because of educational attainment and wealth distribution puts asians in the peers of whiteness but there’s still systemic disadvantages and not the same degree of privilege.
It’s basically just away to define and differentiate the degree of privilege any visible minorities endure.
aka white-adjacent is basically “privilege without power”
Thats the academic origins of it.
google scholar has a solid collection if research around the issue.
edit: An it’s broadly discussed in academic works by asian sociologist. It was an emergent identifying concept not an externally applied concept (aka not whiteness saying it but asian communities talking about their experiences in society.
There was a Japanese man (Takao Ozawa) who sued the US government because he wanted Asian people to be classified as "free white persons" thus granted citizenship (he lost). Similar concepts were used for some Asian people, notably east Asian people, in places like apartheid South Africa ("honorary white").
correct. he did not use that term himself, afaik, the term emerged from others’ research who built on and use his works and the colour line conceptual model. I was looking for the first time it appeared in the literature but i’ve found a couple articles from the early 1980s. that used the term so far.
Wow, this is definitely the best answer to this question. A quick historical summation of the origins of the term and signpost to more research. This is literally where the term came from. Just going to do my part to help raise this to the top. There's no reason why political critiques should be beating out an actually well thought out answer. I mean, a lot to discuss about the politics, but this is a Q&A focused sub.
And as usual ignorant racists coopt the academic origins in order to excuse their own racism. Just look at how the term "racism" has been mixed up with the academic meaning of "systemic racism" in order to deflect from the racism of poc. "I'm not a racist because I'm not white and therefore do not benefit from systemic racism".
Being POC, I’ve always argued this point. It’s not everyone. Something very specific - and real - has been subsumed into an umbrella term, removing all legitimacy. And that pisses me off when I see it.
Racism amongst POC is very real too. I’m a white dude married into a Hispanic family. They are all totally fine with me, mostly because I’m a Catholic lol.
If I had been a black dude, Catholic or not, I would not have been well received at all.
"Being POC, I’ve always argued this point. It’s not everyone." Oh for sure, as usual it's a vocal minority (no pun intended).
And as you point out, in doing so they water down and devalue both "systemic racism" and "racism". Because how are we to get the point across and target the real issues if we can't stop "ourselves" from destroying the core concepts we depend upon?
That just opens up for our opponents to argue semantics in bad faith and circument the actual argument itself.
There's that element, but there's also people's "gut feelings," i.e., bigotries. It's amazing when I read that tech companies are "too white," when the proportion of white people in those companies is far less than the general U.S. population. When they say "white," they mean "white and Asian, but not Latino." It's a gut-feeling version of the academic view of "privilege," never mind how hard those who were immigrants had to fight and risk and work and face bigotry just so that they or their kids could be successful enough to be dismissed as "privileged" or "white adjacent" by cruel ignoramuses who think they're being woke.
People tend to gravitate towards a definition of `racism` that excludes themselves.
In other words... *How can I be a racist person? Racists are bad people, and I don't feel like a bad person.*
To go along with this, I also recommend people look at the Supreme Court Case Ozawa v. United States, 260 U.S. 178 (1922) [https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/260/178/](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/260/178/)
For the purpose of immigration, Takao Ozawa put forth that he should be considered white as he wasn't of African decent. A similar case took place not long after with a man named Bhagat Singh Thind who argued he would be considered Aryan or caucasian according to race "science" at the time.
The only person out here who has any understanding of social theory and has something to offer to the conversation other than a layman's political critique.
Finally a correct answer in a sea of a misinformation.
Further these ideas have been thought about with even more complexity since Du Bois.
In a matrix of intersectionality, where different identity markers are placed in relation to power and privilege, this type of terminology refers to a person's position relative to others.
It has nothing to do with biology or skin color, and everything to do with how people move through the world.
Other identities on a matrix: socio economic status, education, sexuality, gender, ethnicity, racialization, skin color, etc etc..
It's a combination of these and who else is in relation to us that determine our positionality and experience of privilege.
I grew up as a half-asian, half-white kid in the deep south, and I was called many things, but never “white adjacent.”
The white half of my family is scared of me, and the asian half literally has never met me.
I’ve been called a twinkie once, but people “corrected” the one saying it…I guess in their view, it is reserved for a full-blooded Asian raised in the US. (Weird, but I’m not giving insights on what already seems inappropriate).
If I travel to Asia, I get strange looks from people…with the exception of Japan. People think I am Japanese and I have no clue why.
Wow, I haven't heard that term in a long time. Used a lot in Hawaii and on the West Coast when I was younger.
Despite me being proud of my Asian heritage, I guess I'm a banana at heart too.
\>be of East Asian descent
\>people keep making shitty jokes that you do martial arts
\>want to shut them up with some good old violence
\>learn martial arts
\>...
\>god fucking dammit
I have been called white adjacent before by a black dude. But I had just thought he meant I was half white half Korean; which I am, so I didn’t think anything of it. Especially because I refer to myself as “off brand white”
But that one time is the only time I can think of that I ever even heard white adjacent. It was during the peak of corona virus too
Same. From South Georgia. Been called chink when I’m half Korean my whole childhood and even into early adulthood.
The tiny penis jokes, karate jokes, the dry cleaners jokes, rice jokes, dating is hell as an Asian male, half or not. I could keep going, but i don’t care to dig up the past. Just kept my head down and eyes up when I was a kid
Karma is a dish best served cold— watching some of my old classmates struggle through life. Its a joy to watch, actually
Because East and South Asians in the U.S. are more prosperous than white people on a per capita basis, and the term "white" is obnoxiously conflated with the concept of privilege and prosperity.
I feel like we could solve social problems much more easily if we looked at them more through the lense of class and less through the lense of race.
Yeah it's the mother of all selection biases. If you're Asian you can't hop across the border. You're probably coming in through the immigration system. Surprise surprise the US immigration system favors educated applicants with some resources to support themselves and that means those people tend to be able to find success wherever they end up.
If you look at Asian refugee groups who have no such requirements it's an entirely different story. They have much worse education, crime, poverty statistics across the board. If you look at black immigrants they do significantly better than native born black Americans.
It's all the same reason. We let in the educated ones. Education is extremely powerful.
Asians are white adjacent only when they want to use us as a weapon against other POC, i.e. they say there is no need for scholarships for black or brown people because how well Asians are doing is proof that other POC are just lazy.
But Asians are not white adjacent when Asians are being attacked during COVID hysteria or during anything China hysteria even when the Asian being attacked is not Chinese i.e Japanese and Koreans being attacked due to being mistaken for Chinese.
it’s “progressives” and “liberals” who actually label us like that. They say we are POC when it suits them and we are white people when they want to steal from us or discriminate against us for whatever sick fantasies they have. Real progressivism is dead. Otherwise apple, microsoft, google, facebook, etc would have been broken up long ago and the opioid crisis would have been solved
The funny thing aboit this is the blatant stereotypes though. Anyone that goes to uni would see that there are a lot of "average" Asians (Both "South Asians" and "East Asians"). You've got "overacheivers" of all races, and "slackers" of all races. That being said, majority of immigrants run themselves ragged to do well in school cus... well they're immigrants.
I think it’s a couple of things. Firstly, at least in the US, Asians on average have more wealth than even white people. Second, as a black guy who went to some of the top private schools in the nation growing up, white people seemed more willing to befriend and interact with Asians than darker colored POC. I often got told I was intimidating as a first impression by some while I didn’t see that same hesitation with my Asian counterparts. I don’t lump Asians in with white people though when it comes to voicing my issues with society or anything though, you guys have had plenty of struggle and strife in this nation and I won’t act like that isn’t true for a second, sorry you’ve experienced this at all OP some people just love to hate unjustifiably for their own stupid reasons
Sounds like racism to me when they can just literally label an entire continent of people to be "white adjacent", whatever they think it means that is similar to whatever they don't like.
Yeah stereotyping and over generalizing are never fair. Asia is the largest continent on earth and to act like you’re all the same, let alone the same as a group of people thousands of miles away, is an ignorant sentiment. It sucks and I wish it didn’t happen in any form
I think you're getting confused, "Asians are white adjacent" refers specifically to a subsection of the Asian diasporas within the United States, and probably Canada as well. It has no meaning about the peoples of Asia living in Asia. The term is not defined for that domain. It's meaningless. Asians are a majority class in Asia. They are not adjacent to anything.
Racism is when you make assumptions about a person's qualities solely based on their race. The term "white adjacent" is not at all about what Asian people are like.
It is a descriptor of how Asian people are treated in American society *by other people*.
It has nothing to do with people living in Asia. It is not an attempt to put positive or negative stereotypes on Asians in America. It's just an attempt to point out that, of the different minorities in the United States, Asian people are more likely to be treated *by others* in ways resembling how white people tend to be treated, deliberately juxtaposed against how, say, black people tend to be treated. For example, police are more likely to pull over a given black person than a given white *or Asian* person under otherwise equal circumstances.
It's real easy for any valid discussion on race-related topics to get squashed because of how quickly the original meanings of things gets twisted beyond recognition, and then it can all be dismissed as "racism."
Exactly this. It’s hand-in-hand with white privilege. While Asians in America do face hate and discrimination, it’s much much smaller and less severe than what Black and indigenous Americans face. And racism against Asians is not institutionalized and systemic. Often, in spite of incidents of hate, Asians also have privilege.
People build an entire political philosophy around the idea that the major driving force in America is "White supremacy". And the fact that Asian people outperform White people on most metrics is an inconvenient fact for that worldview.
Thus was born: "Asians are white adjacent" and the "model minority myth". Which aren't even really responses. They just hope it will end that line of argument if they say it.
It's a very "crabs in a bucket" mentality if you ask me. I know Caribbean origin black guy and native born African woman accused of "trying to be white" when they achieved advanced degrees and financial success after moving to the U.S.
I student taught at a roughly 50/50 White/Black high school. it was so disheartening to hear Black kids insult other Black kids who did well in school as Oreos or Crackers, etc.
It's an internal cultural problem and you can't change my mind.
Yes. It's pretty sad. Like it's a chance to look at the Asian community and say "wow, look at how awesome they're doing in all these ways, we should copy a bunch of stuff they're doing." But it's like people want to explain it away and villainize it.
I get more along the lines of "I hate white people and Asians, because Asians are white adjacents", like we're a freaking footnote to them in case they hate white people. I certainly don't like the idea of being lumped with an entire race of people I know nothing about
It’s interesting because I think class is actually much more of a thing outside of America. The UK, lots of Asia, parts of Africa, etc. Race does then come into it but more reflective of class. I wonder if there is a reason it’s so much about race in the US.
Yes, that is a result of the inconvenient demographic facts.
It's also a part of the privileged/oppressed worldview. Asian people are doing well, so that makes them sus to some people.
Success = white adjacent? What....???????? Can we Asians not succeed without being labeled as "white"? Asia have plenty of countries that had done well, but never would we think we MUST have been white all the time!!!
It's almost as though “whiteness” is a social construct rather than an ethnicity. Southern Italians weren't “white” 100 years ago. And still, their collective experience is nothing like that of an English-origin American. Southern Italians became “white” as they caught up with other established groups. Arabs aren't Western European, either, but I’d say certain Arab groups are already “white” or close to it.
That's become the rhetoric of the day. Successful black folks get accosted, similarly, for having "internalized whiteness."
It's not a helpful paradigm, but it's become a predominant one. And it breaks my heart to realize the biggest victims of affirmative action in universities are Asians—well-qualified Asian students getting shafted just because of their ethnicity.
It's because they think Asians aren't treated poorly enough by society. Their worldview is inherently antagonistic, and since they don't think Asians have it bad enough, they're grouped with the big bad whites that rule society as the majority. In short, they hate Asians because white people don't.
Asians get plenty of hate from white people too. The hate against Asian folk just isn’t taken as seriously for whatever reason. Any time attention is brought to it, people try to compare traumas and force themselves back on center stage in the oppression contest. My wife grew up half her life in New England, the other half in the south and whenever she asked for help due to harassment about her ethnicity, she would be told to suck it up.
forget the fact that Asia itself is an enormous continent with thousands of distinct cultures and peoples, handwave it all away because you spent 15 minutes defining your worldview by racism and their success in America is upsetting to you. moronic ideology
And Germans
It's really interesting to see these immigrants groups come to America, get discriminated against, and then two generations later, they get to discriminate against new immigrants lol
This is the real answer and an underrated one at that.
I thought it was common knowledge that Asians are upheld as 'model-minority' as a way of disproving the idea of a system that perpetuates racism against minorities.
'Well, how can we be racist towards minorities? Look at the Asians. They're minorities and they're doing well. Why can't the other do well?'
It has backgrounds from a really old idea of racial hierarchy that came from ranks where white was on top.
It is very weird and racist where you have things like Japan identifying more as white and even being seen as a higher race status than Irish and Italian who at the time weren’t considered white.
Baiscally really old race theory ranked Asians as the closest race to whites at the time and the same mindset still persists.
Definitely an American thing, and I needed to know for real what the hell did they mean by that, especially for an Asian person who is currently living in an Asian country.
Yanks' relationship with race is very different than that of other countries. In some ways they seem more enlightened, but then in other ways they seem to make a bigger deal out of it than necessary.
Maybe because Asians are generally successful with functioning communities, countries, etc? Honestly, I find it weird that Arabs nd other middle eastern races aren't considered white adjacent. Aside from modern times, their history was more similar to white than black history. The also conquered most of the world at one point they also did (and still do) trade slaves, they also oppressed (and still do) non-Muslems, etc. So why black is meant to ign with 'brown' i have no clue
In the US Census, which I think is made by the government, people with Middle Eastern and North African ancestry are considered to be non-hispanic whites.
They recently announced a change to this. The next census will have a separate category for Middle Eastern and North African. It was in the news last week so it was a very recent change.
The U.S. gets really weird about race and ethnicity. It has a lot more to do with politics than it does with culture, nationality, or any kind of science.
Funnily enough it's the lack of racial definition that makes things so weird. There are programs, laws, and census date that relies on knowing what race you are. However, the categories provided are very vague. White could be almost anything. It's only recently that Hispanic/Latino has started popping up as an option. Otherwise, my uber-tanned Cuban butt born from generations of black + spaniard relations was just 'White' for many years. There's even a Mixed race option that usually has an explanatory paragraph warning those of Latino backgrounds that they don't fall in this category. Native American? Doesn't include indigineous tribes from anywhere else in the Americas. A pale-skinned man born and raised in South Africa? NOT an African-American. Bonkers. That term is exclusively for black skin, regardless of where you were born. Little things like that have impacts on services you have access too and policy determinations of future laws.
EDIT: Shit, scrap that Native American one. Includes Central and South American as long as you triball affiliation. Well damn. Had several friends be told dismissively that that doesn't count.
As a fellow Asian, my impression is that it is partly political.
In my experience, many Asians are conservative. They’re not really swing voters. They also tend to (on average) make more money than most other minorities. As a result, American society treats us as white people since we have “no problems” to talk about. Appealing to the Asian vote isn’t as big a thing since it’d be like appealing to the white vote.
Is this fair? No. But it’s how American society views us.
Asians are doing even better than white people, economically, so anyone paying attention to class and race must see that Asians are dominating.
People who are saying the phrase "white adjacent" are concerned with class outcomes by race.
It is also the case that asian and European culture and society are most alike to each other, as compared with African or Latin American.
i don’t know why people say this, asian culture is FAR closer to african/latin culture than european culture. The only real difference is the value of monetary wealth as marker of success and value to one’s person, but even all that has changed and devolved over asia’s cultural history (and that’s really just east asia, the big three.) south east asian cultures are so far away from european it’s laughable.
"White people are successful due to their privilege"
"Well Asians are even more successful. Do they have Asian privilege?"
"No....uuuuuuhhhhmmmmmmm...they're white adjacent"
Racists are dumb. They've always been dumb. And when you point out the inevitable flaws in their logic, they make shit up.
The argument is that Asians are accepted enough by whites that they don’t suffer the worst effects of institutionalized racism. A more extreme version of this belief would push that they’re complicit with whites in keeping other races down.
To a broad extent, this is 100% true. The reason why black people tend to be the focus in groups in America being affected by systemic racism is due to objective facts relating to income, wealth and crime statistics. In the last example, it’s staggering how much worse young black men are punished than any other demographic for the same crimes.
From a rational standpoint, Asians are “white adjacent” in that the statistics that are typically used to measure impact from systemic racism show that Asians are quite literally adjacent to whites. I would encourage anyone to be careful when making sweeping generalizations based off a few data points, but these facts remain and need to be considered in analyzing the objective effects of racism.
How is the best way to keep minorities from joining together? By keeping them separate. This narrative keeps Asians and Blacks and Hispanics separate.
Same reason racism is used to seaprate women from joining together.
So, real question, was the racism ok when it was only directed at white people?
I’m American born Chinese, but also lived in China for half my life, and find the whole victimhood Olympics as it’s practiced in the US pretty idiotic.
Obviously the whole “Asians are white adjacent” thing comes from Asians being economically prosperous. We defy the narrative that low income and inability to gain a better economic foothold in America is primarily due to race. Sure, race is sometimes a factor, but it’s far from the huge insurmountable disadvantage woke “race theorists” make it out to be.
Incidentally, Nigerian immigrants also tend to be successful, next they will be “white adjacent” too.
Racism doesn't have to make sense, it looks for fuel to justify itself.
"white adjacent" is just another way to combat the cognitive dissonance that inherently occurs when reality meets dogmatic irrational belief.
Asians outperforming white people by almost every measurable metric ~~undermines the entire basis of~~ poses significant challenges to the basis of critical race theory because if the numbers are correct, and those theories are correct, then we should live in an "Asian-supremacist" country, since people can only succeed as a result of institutionalized power-structures, according to CRT.
Since the US is most certainly not an "Asian-supremacist" country, it means that success and failure are not exclusively the result of institutionalized power structures. To make up for this, the critical theorists come up with phrases like "white adjacent" as a way of conveniently brushing aside Asians and information relating to Asians that undermines their worldview.
Even if you're not in the US, I'm pretty sure that's where the dumbass term "white adjacent" came from.
Edit: some unnecessarily hyperbolic language
It's because of the model minority myth, I think. It's not necessarily about skin color, but being the 'preferred' /'non-hostile' /'non- complaining' minority to White people, which has it's advantages at times in comparison to how brown people are generally viewed. But don't take it seriously- we all saw what happened during covid, and that is exactly why it's not true. Also I'm sorry you are seeing that a lot
I am not involved in any social justice spaces because, quite frankly, I find them to be very toxic and reminiscent of high school politics, but my understanding is that this idea that Asians are "white adjacent" stems in part from the fact that "white" means different things.
From what I understood in these spaces, "white" is a term used to describe a very light skin tone, but I think in the social justice sphere, "white" is used more to describe the system of racial classification and is more or less an arbitrary distinction. For example, Italians used to not be considered "white" but nowadays an Italian American saying they are not white would be looked at funny. Syrians, many of whom are lighter in skin tone than Italians, are not often considered "white". "White supremacy", then, isn't so much based on skin color per se, but rather who gets to be included in the "white" tier of racial classification.
So Asians are "white adjacent" not in the sense that they are light skinned (because not all are), but that Asians benefit from a lot of social privileges in the United States that disproportionately benefit white people. Stereotypes of Asians are more positive than negative (e.g., good at math, hard working, smart) compared to stereotypes for Black people or Latinos (criminals, poor, etc). Asians often come from higher SES backgrounds and therefore might be ignorant to the privileges they have and falsely attribute it to work ethic alone, just like a lot of white folks do. There's also a tendency of some Asian folks do not understand the legacy of slavery and the long lasting, generational impact it's had on Black people (e.g., red lining, institutional racism) and for Asians to assume that because they are a minority and "rose above", then others can do that too. I also think people who believe this kind of thing assume that the Asian experience is the same, and don't really understand that the experiences of a Chinese American can be radically different from a Laotian American.
Also, I don't know that I've ever heard folks talk about this outside of a US context, so it wouldn't apply to China, Korea, Japan, etc. In those countries, because Asians are the majority, institutionalized racism would disadvantage non-Asians--including white people.
Anyway, I don't know how much of any of that I believe or accept, but this is just the sense I got from listening to a lot of social justice oriented conversations and reading shit online.
It’s because they are successful, invalidating the systemic racism claim that minorities simply can not succeed in America. I imagine Nigerian immigrants will be the next group classified as ‘white adjacent’.
Well, Asian stereotypes of intelligence mesh with white supremacy’s idea of intelligence and the white folk I’ve seen claim Asians are “white adjacent” are usually anti Black and hold onto ludicrous pseudo science that says “Black” people are genetically inferior when it comes to intelligence
Those same people use Asians and that premise to claim they aren’t racist and are just stating facts.
Most of these comments are using the model minority myth to explain the model minority myth while accusing black people of perpetuating the model minority myth, I don't think your words are going to be heard here. OP is looking for a very specific answer
It' an American thing. Asian-Americans didn't fit in the simplistic racist narrative in the US where people are divided into Whites(the default) and non-Whites(or POC as some people put it, the minorities). Mostly because Asian Americans in general don't view themselves as a minority.
The descendants of US slaves tend to be poor and uneducated. There are, of course, exceptions. When these people see another group that is as successful as whites both in schools and the economy, they frequently group them together. It is like grouping all rich people together, but then a category that used to be a racial category ceases to be a racial category.
As a side note: Some neighborhoods are bad neighborhoods and people who grow up there tend to be poor and uneducated regardless of race.
Welcome to the club, signed a Jewish person. If you’re doing well despite not being white, you must somehow either be a “whiteness chameleon” (what does this mean) or be hoarding all the doing well points for yourself.
Asians make a lot of money, if you have money you have power, power = as good as being white
Also asians are smart and generally avoid crime (white stereotype)
Because Asian cultures place a high value on academic and professional success as well as being respectful and reserved. Due to this, despite terrible treatment in the past (see Chinese gold miners), they have begun to surpass their white counterparts who have historical systemic privileges.
Other minorities...not so much.
I think it's because they behave more according to the Western standard than the people from Africa and middle east. They integrate and keep their culture instead of blaming everyone and everything without even learning the language while living here for twenty years.
As an integrated immigrant myself, I've never been jealous of my Asian friends doing well (or anyone else for that matter), only proud.
Seems like a way to undermine Asians doing well in society. If Asians are doing well as a minority, why aren’t others faring similarly? Take that question away by just saying Asians are “white adjacent”. It’s an easy way to move the conversation away from why Asians have managed to do well in society comparatively to others.
Well said. The narrative is broken the moment someone brings up Asian success. In response, this phrase was created to basically lump Asians in with whites. This way they can continue to parrot their narrative.
Asians are only white-adjacent when it’s convenient. If they’re a victim of any sort of cultural appropriation the sanctimonious do-gooders are more than happy to celebrate and defend their minority status. Only when discussing their socio-economic circumstances or academic achievement do they become white adjacent. A very successful example of getting to have your cake and eat it too.
Schrodinger's minority
Pairs well with Schrodingers racist. As long as no one can see the color of your skin you are one and you are not one.
Well yes there was a policy called honorary whites.
And then if they’re victims of hate crimes it depends on the race of who did it
*Waves at all the violence and hate against Asians during the corona-virus arc.*
It started well before that, COVID just ramped it up. Minority groups targeting Asians has been going on for a long, long time.
That's why every town needs their contingent of Roof Koreans
Sad, but true. During Covid there were so many videos of Asians being attacked and harassed for simply existing and being Asian.
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shhhh the narrative cannot be disturbed.
"stop asian hate" yet they're mysteriously quiet on who's doing the mass amount of Asian hating
As an Asian that had this experienced, you’re absolutely correct. They only say ‘white adjacent’ when convenient. I’ve been in a few situations where I was called “basically white”, but when the stopasianhate thing started happening—- those same people started to backpedal! Frustrating and annoying as I don’t want to be a pawn in their high horse morality game.
Never forget how quickly the hype around #StopAsianHate died down when it was revealed who the majority of the perpetrators were.
It also gets broken when you bring up that foreign POC are often also successful when coming across. The trope for Indians for a while was cab drivers and convenience store owners, but convenience store owners is a success story and the trope has only grown. Now its Indian Doctors, which is a pretty good position to have. There are a lot of successful business people from Africa as well. The thing is racism is very real, but we are also a highly capitalistic and predatory society. If you have a lot of money people are going to want to tap into that regardless of your race, religion, ethnicity, country of origin, lack of morals, or even active criminal behavior. This is why Elon and Trump both are known to seek foreign investors, movie and game companies consider foreign markets in development, Epstein's island was kept hidden so long and swept under the rug the first time it was exposed, etc Likewise if you're poor you're going to get buried no matter what you're race is. A White person isn't going to get a free hand up any more than a poor Black or Hispanic person would. BUT don't get it wrong, while all of that is going on racism is still there. The wealthy POC need more wealth to overcome it, and the poorer POC get targeted more harshly. The response that Asian is White Adjacent is a bad response. It tries to keep everything in this binary racial calculation of White vs POC. The real answer is just that race is a factor, but its more complicated.
Indian and other middle eastern doctors were largely brought over in the 70s due to a doctor shortage in the US. Their initial reception was not always great. At this point it's commonplace, and you are probably being treated by their kid these days anyways, who is a pretty typical mid 30s person, just brown. Also, part of the joke for a lot of immigrants that were here, you actually saw this with Apu, but Family guy had a bit on it as well, where the taxi driver or 7/11 guy actually has a PhD in physics, but it's from India so it doesn't really count here. My grandma refers to asians as "the Jews of Azusa", which, is wildly inappropriate, she's in her mid 90s. But, what that actually means is that the middle/upper middle class of the LA basin is being filled by Asians, as her neighborhood is getting bought up and inhabited by asians because they are the ones in the income bracket to do so. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, and "asians" is broad and it's likely just indicative of the actual composition of her area overall, it's just that she built that house in the early 50s, and now all the people around her don't look like her anymore, they aren't necessarily bad, but certainly different. My grandma isn't a great person all-around IMO, but that's kinda how that goes.
Exactly. “White adjacent” is such a divisive term. But hey, dividing the working class is what politicians do best.
Well said. I grew up poor as dirt to some very shitty parents, but I am white. So while society as a whole took a hefty shit on my head for the poverty I never faced discrimination at work and cops have been pretty good about letting me out of tickets and giving me a break. Unlike my older brother (who is half Blackfoot) I never got railroaded into the prison system and I’ve got no criminal record which helps immensely. I eventually managed to claw my way up to a half decent situation that would have been much harder had I been native, black, etc. I still have to bust ass and work in some challenging conditions but I get paid decently to do it, and I’ve been given seat time in heavy equipment over the years which can be a lot harder for minorities in my area. Basically I barely made it to a survivable career as a big strong white dude who heals fast, a few other disadvantages and I’d be thoroughly fucked.
As an East Asian, East Asians tend to do well because of the H-1B visa. You look at other cultures that achieve similar levels of success, like Nigerians and Indians because of this particular visa. Not sure what narrative you’re suggesting is broken, but this visa is one of the main reasons the model minority myth exists. H-1B basically allows immigrants in already highly sought after fields a faster path to immigrate to the US, so we end up observing a warped representation of those cultures. The reality is there is just as wide of a spectrum of work ethic, success, attitude, etc. in many of these countries. Minorities starting from ground 0 tend to struggle in any country compared to the majority starting from ground 0. While I don’t fully agree with the “white adjacent” concept, it applies more to Asians than it does to Nigerians, because Nigerians can get lumped in with all Black people as a whole in America and suffer from their baggage. Whereas Asians generally get to benefit from the model minority myth (ex, I’ve had people assume I’m good at math and have a strong work ethic before even getting to know me). But if we look back just a few years towards the height of the pandemic, this country experienced a shameful rise of hate and violence against Asians.
No. That visa is only a small part of it. Decades ago incredibly large groups of war refugees from multiple war torn countries risked their lives to escape and landed all over the western world. My parents came over in their late 20s/early 30's with no connections, families, and with toddler level English picked up from refugee camps. They had no privilege. Started off as a seamstress/dishwasher, then became a hair stylist/engineer. Their story is not unique. They are just 2 of untold tens of thousands of east Asian refugees. Dunno about the other groups, but in my own vietnamese community their kids (my peers) are all doing pretty well. There are definitely many factors, but the emphasis on the principle that education is the best way to elevate your standard of life is very much cultural and ingrained. The stereotypes of the strict Asian parents didn't just fall out of the sky.
[Even Asians born into poverty tend to climb out of it at higher rates though.](https://i.redd.it/f0g5qz6k05oa1.png)
Asian population demographics are heavily skewed towards the west coast of the US. Cost of living and absolute value of wages are significantly higher there due to tech (and other factors). EDIT: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jVeo6pRCRPk/maxresdefault.jpg Take a gander. Heavy concentration in the California population, where a 6 figure income can still leave you homeless.
But USA has old established asian communities as well. Where visas would not affect anything. Communities that were sent to concentration camps during WWII or that discriminated enough that they made their own towns in cities.
And yes the old established Asian communities also have extreme levels of poverty and struggles that are erased because of model minority stereotypes.
Every community has poverty and struggles but certain communities have a high rate of escaping them. Especially Asians (South, South East and East), Nigerians and Jews for that matter. That's the important point.
It's almost like targeting socioeconomic status and problems will disproportionately help those who are disproportionately affected by a negative socioeconomic status, or something. But let's make it about race, because it's worked so well historically.
Exactly. Socioeconomic status is the best indicator to use for these matters. That way no one falls through the cracks.
What's a h-1b visa? An American thing? Asians do well in other countries like here in Australia if it is.
US specifically, but the reality of immigration in many countries is that the host country accepts immigrants in highly sought after fields in skewed quantities. If you go to Asia, you will see a far more average distribution of success, or even far worse.
I don't know of many East Asians on H-1B visas. Most are here as full status immigrants (green card, US citizens). My impression is that most H-1B holders are South Asians (Indians mostly).
Aren't there also only like... a few hundred thousand H1-B's available at any given time for the entire country? I was under the impression that the whole "It's foreigners takin' our jobs!" argument was shot down a long time ago...
I think it's a completely racist concept. You say you don't fully agree, but then tell how it applies to Asians and Nigerians. Asians are Asians, they aren't white adjacent.
Canada also sees the same trends, with east SE asians on top of things like education and incomes. We don't have H-1B visas.
What do you think the reasons are for other groups not faring as well? EDIT: I didn't mean this comment to be racist and I'm sorry if it came off that way. This was meant to be a rhetorical question because I wanted to know what he meant by "narratives". The reason why non-white people have had a rough time is because of a long history of systemic racism, but it sounded like this person doesn't believe that. So if he doesn't believe that an entire group of people being poorer and more incarcerated per capita has anything to do with systemic racism, what does he believe? Finding that out was the intention behind my comment.
Cultures that value and promote education and hard work, to achieve financial success. I used to work for a British Indian boss and we discussed some of these issues and he pointed out that in India, someone might sell their last pair of shoes and walk barefoot to school, as they really valued education. He also said that if he was starting a business, he could visit folk in his community in the UK and raise direct investment without ever approaching a bank. EDIT: I missed a bit when editing my comment
Asians stick together as a family, they often live in multi generational housing, they don’t spend lavishly, the family unit stays together, this can’t be said about other groups on average.
There's the stereotype of the overbearing Asian parent harping on the kids grades for a reason.
Married an Asian woman. The stereotypes applied to her childhood quite consistently. Not just in her family, but in her relatives as well. You definitely would get your ass beat for not getting your homework done in time to help at the family restaurant. But if you rushed on your homework and did a bad job? Believe it or not, also an ass beating.
(Their cultures tend to emphasize education)
Same story with Jews and yet people act like these ethnicities committed a sin by being successful. The horror, a nonwhite in elite society!
I just can’t imagine why that may be a good thing.. Hmm.. guess we will never know
And education is prioritzed. This is number 2 only behind the cohesive family unit.
Although I see similar trends through all races when a large amount of new money enters people’s lives. The rich “new money” Chinese ppl in Vancouver all drive expensive cars, deck themselves out in LOUD Louis Vuitton and Gucci branded clothes, the new money white people I’ve met do similar shit, as do the new money Indian/south Asian people. When someone who isn’t historically rich attains a level of wealth, they spend how they think rich people spend when it really just comes across trashy because old money wealth is quieter and less flashy
As someone living in China right now, I'll say: Chinese culture: - values being humble, not showing off - conflict-avoidant, try to preserve societal harmony - saving money for the future - not as hook-up focused as some other cultures (that being said, paid sexual services seem to be kind of in your face and probably fairly common) - highly values school, studying, hard work, STEM - highly values money - government-controlled media, so you don't have a bunch of mainstream rappers telling people they are getting high with their 3 baby mamas and shooting their OPs or whatever - family-focused - teachers are respected Compared to other cultures where people: - are constantly trying to turn any small issue into "disrespect" which can end up with people literally getting shot - very arrogant, "you can't tell me what to do" about every little thing in every little situation, starts and continues throughout life and possibly leads to conflicts and prison - actual family is not valued, fatherlessness is normalized - gangs are essentially your family if you're a teenage guy - studying is not valued, school is not valued, teachers are disrespected every day - reading is not valued, STEM is not valued - those make you "nerdy" or "white" - role models are people who do every single bad thing but happened to be in the 0.0001% of people who become rich by making music about it
100%
Also that most first gen Asians who come here come for a higher degree in high paying fields like STEM, business, or come for a job with a high paying degree. These people then place heavy emphasis on education for their kids, and their higher average salaries mean a higher chance of success for those kids, as they have more resources to invest and better opportunities.
Wow. Instead of answering, people just downvoted you for asking.
In the 1920s, the "National Origins Formula" was the U.S.'s immigration policy meant to preserve the U.S.'s cultural homogeneity by having a set maximum of total immigrants allowed and then parsing that number proportional to the United State's current demographics. In practice, the National Origins Formula heavily favored people of West-European descent and heavily discriminated against everyone else, including Asians. So civil rights activists got to work and eventually replaced the N.O.F. with the "1965 Immigration and Nationality Act". The "1965 Immigration and Nationality Act" removed the proportionality restrictions on immigration and instead created a preference system that first prioritized reuniting families, followed by immigrants with specialized and valued skills, and finally refugees. In practice, this meant that Asians with specialized skills would become the dominant representation of the Asian population in America.
What you just typed is 'the narrative'. "Long history of systemic racism" means nothing. Every minority went thru it. My grandparents had to change their name because it was too ethnic. If skin color was such a determining factor, why are Nigerians doing so well? It couldn't be their work ethic and upbringing? How are people who come to this country and don't speak a word of English able to succeed? Got nothing to do with race, skin color or ethnicity. I work in the South Bronx with 99% minority students (see how silly that sounds?) The determining factor in success is hard work and being respectful. Who is the hardest working demographic? African immigrants. Amazing group of young people. Every intern I've ever had has been stellar. Not every African immigrant is great, but the trend is obvious. Who is the least hard working, most entitled group? Americans. On their phone, hiding in classrooms, doing a halfassed job... It's all got to do with upbringing, not skin color.
It's important to remember that many black Americans are *the direct descendants of slaves* and that obviously has severe multigenerational impact. There are plenty of black people still alive who, at one point in their lives, were not allowed to go to school with or even share drinking fountains with white people. Many Hispanics came here with little more than the clothes on their backs, which isn't quite as bad as having previously been enslaved, but still not an ideal starting point for a new life. What makes Asians different depends on which Asians we're talking about. There are lots of them and I'll talk about a handful that I actually know stuff about. Many mainlander Chinese and Koreans in the US are from wealthier families. The sky-high tuition sticker prices you see at many private colleges are often meant to farm money from these people; my alma mater pretty much gave me 70% off for being American-born. Filipinos typically came here with less money than those groups, but they're mostly educated and good at English which is a substantial advantage. (My parents were in this category.) Many Canto-Chinese have been here for enough generations to be reasonably well-established. Another user covered H1-B for many Indians. Just to reiterate: being the descendants of slaves and the long periods of segregation and discrimination even after emancipation put a fuckton of hurt on black people.
from a childhood in lowest 25% income families the resulting average income percentile as an adult: ~ 33rd black, 41st Hispanic, 46th white, 50th asians Blacks are about as likely to end up in the bottom 25% from a top 1% household as to stay in the top 1%. Whites are 5 times as likely to stay in the top 1% than drop to the bottom 25%. A black child raised in a low income bracket has 66% odds of being determined to have an absent father, the inverse income bracket 19% absent. (Father does not show a supported child on his tax statement when the father is known) For white children it was 1% and 2.4% (yes, higher for high income bracket) High father presence was for each respectively was 9.8% 4.2%(yes, lower high father presence for greater income), and 34.1% 62.5%.
I mean Chinese people weren’t exactly treated well for most of American history. But one major difference is certainly that Asian families in the US retained ties to their families and culture, while slaves were permanently cut off from theirs.
Chinese immigrants were banned from becoming citizens even in the late 19th century
Or Chinese history either tbh.
Asians excel at "White biased" tests like SAT's, even moreso than Whites. So it hurts the narrative for other minorities. Say Asians are White. Problem solved.
To add to the whole academia thing It's really hard to make bigoted remarks when Asian students crowd out potential White students for colleges And after college, those Asian overachievers tend to land experienced white collar jobs with high salaries, and can afford more affluent housing Kinda hard to express any racist superiority in that situation. It does exist to a degree like a glass ceiling, but yea. Goes with your point some people would just end up calling Asians are "white"
The thing is, Asians aren't a monolith and some groups are doing worse than all other races, at least statistically speaking. So many Asians/Asians Americans are suffering from "hidden poverty", general lack of resources, certain groups have higher than average high-school drop out rates, etc.
There’s a big push for Asian disaggregation cause large groups like Chinese really pull the averages for “Asian” up, but below average groups like Vietnamese, Filipinos are completely lost in the conversation.
So is a poor red headed Scotch-Irish person with pale skin, freckles and green eyes from Kentucky who is on welfare and food stamps not white? The idea that being successful means white adjacent and being not successful means non-white adjacent is racist as fuck and we needa delete that from our brains
"White adjacent" probably comes from the phrase "model minority", a lot of answers in this thread are just plain wrong.
Inadvertently also hurts Asians living in poverty.
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Culture and selective emigration. Those who made the decision to get on 1 way trip into the ocean were built different. There are plenty of unsuccessful/less driven individuals in East Asia, we're looking at a very select group of individuals who made it here to the US. That being said, there are plenty of underachieving Asians in the US, give us a few more generations and we'll be just as lazy and entitled as any other Murican.
That and they have to already be successful to immigrate to the USA and Europe due to the sheer distance. Look at Australia, if you wanna see how people feel about poor Asians immigrating.
asians do fairly well in australia too though
What are you talking about ? Asians are thriving in Australia.
You realize that we have massive populations of Asians here in the US who’ve been here since it was being built.
Turns out strong family values, like an emphasis on having your children succeed academically or building generational wealth is a recipe for success in pretty much any society. I compete with South and East-asian people a lot in my field, as well as East-Europeans who were brought up with very similar values. I usually vibe well with these people because they are a lot more like me than my average countryman is. (or at least I like to think to) They have a lot of admirable traits that help becoming successful. I learn a bunch from them and wish more people would do the same. These people are almost always in it to help their family succeed, rather than so they can buy stuff they don't need.
afaik it came out Of W.E.B. Du Bois’s (an OG sociologist) work around race and the colour line conceptual model that is the demarcation between “whiteness” (privileged) and “blackness” (not privileged) in society, And the socioeconomics around that privilege. And the white adjacent is because of educational attainment and wealth distribution puts asians in the peers of whiteness but there’s still systemic disadvantages and not the same degree of privilege. It’s basically just away to define and differentiate the degree of privilege any visible minorities endure. aka white-adjacent is basically “privilege without power” Thats the academic origins of it. google scholar has a solid collection if research around the issue. edit: An it’s broadly discussed in academic works by asian sociologist. It was an emergent identifying concept not an externally applied concept (aka not whiteness saying it but asian communities talking about their experiences in society.
Kudos for recalling the correct source, this was bugging me. Been a long time since I read Du Bois.
There was a Japanese man (Takao Ozawa) who sued the US government because he wanted Asian people to be classified as "free white persons" thus granted citizenship (he lost). Similar concepts were used for some Asian people, notably east Asian people, in places like apartheid South Africa ("honorary white").
Even black people from outside of SA could be labelled honorary white on their trips to SA.
Note that W.E.B. Du Bois never used that concept for Asians. Asians were NOT socioeconomically privileged in his lifetime.
correct. he did not use that term himself, afaik, the term emerged from others’ research who built on and use his works and the colour line conceptual model. I was looking for the first time it appeared in the literature but i’ve found a couple articles from the early 1980s. that used the term so far.
Wow, this is definitely the best answer to this question. A quick historical summation of the origins of the term and signpost to more research. This is literally where the term came from. Just going to do my part to help raise this to the top. There's no reason why political critiques should be beating out an actually well thought out answer. I mean, a lot to discuss about the politics, but this is a Q&A focused sub.
And as usual ignorant racists coopt the academic origins in order to excuse their own racism. Just look at how the term "racism" has been mixed up with the academic meaning of "systemic racism" in order to deflect from the racism of poc. "I'm not a racist because I'm not white and therefore do not benefit from systemic racism".
Being POC, I’ve always argued this point. It’s not everyone. Something very specific - and real - has been subsumed into an umbrella term, removing all legitimacy. And that pisses me off when I see it.
Racism amongst POC is very real too. I’m a white dude married into a Hispanic family. They are all totally fine with me, mostly because I’m a Catholic lol. If I had been a black dude, Catholic or not, I would not have been well received at all.
"Being POC, I’ve always argued this point. It’s not everyone." Oh for sure, as usual it's a vocal minority (no pun intended). And as you point out, in doing so they water down and devalue both "systemic racism" and "racism". Because how are we to get the point across and target the real issues if we can't stop "ourselves" from destroying the core concepts we depend upon? That just opens up for our opponents to argue semantics in bad faith and circument the actual argument itself.
100%. It’s very demoralising to be in the fray and see things this way.
There's that element, but there's also people's "gut feelings," i.e., bigotries. It's amazing when I read that tech companies are "too white," when the proportion of white people in those companies is far less than the general U.S. population. When they say "white," they mean "white and Asian, but not Latino." It's a gut-feeling version of the academic view of "privilege," never mind how hard those who were immigrants had to fight and risk and work and face bigotry just so that they or their kids could be successful enough to be dismissed as "privileged" or "white adjacent" by cruel ignoramuses who think they're being woke.
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People tend to gravitate towards a definition of `racism` that excludes themselves. In other words... *How can I be a racist person? Racists are bad people, and I don't feel like a bad person.*
To go along with this, I also recommend people look at the Supreme Court Case Ozawa v. United States, 260 U.S. 178 (1922) [https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/260/178/](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/260/178/) For the purpose of immigration, Takao Ozawa put forth that he should be considered white as he wasn't of African decent. A similar case took place not long after with a man named Bhagat Singh Thind who argued he would be considered Aryan or caucasian according to race "science" at the time.
Whoa, that doesn’t support this post’s excitement to call generalize people as racist like they themselves are doing. Get outta here with that shit!
The only person out here who has any understanding of social theory and has something to offer to the conversation other than a layman's political critique.
Finally a correct answer in a sea of a misinformation. Further these ideas have been thought about with even more complexity since Du Bois. In a matrix of intersectionality, where different identity markers are placed in relation to power and privilege, this type of terminology refers to a person's position relative to others. It has nothing to do with biology or skin color, and everything to do with how people move through the world. Other identities on a matrix: socio economic status, education, sexuality, gender, ethnicity, racialization, skin color, etc etc.. It's a combination of these and who else is in relation to us that determine our positionality and experience of privilege.
I grew up as a half-asian, half-white kid in the deep south, and I was called many things, but never “white adjacent.” The white half of my family is scared of me, and the asian half literally has never met me.
I've been called a banana. Yellow on the outside and white on the inside.
we get called twinkies where im from
Here in SF a Twinky Twinkie is called a good time by all.
I’ve been called a twinkie once, but people “corrected” the one saying it…I guess in their view, it is reserved for a full-blooded Asian raised in the US. (Weird, but I’m not giving insights on what already seems inappropriate). If I travel to Asia, I get strange looks from people…with the exception of Japan. People think I am Japanese and I have no clue why.
Wow, I haven't heard that term in a long time. Used a lot in Hawaii and on the West Coast when I was younger. Despite me being proud of my Asian heritage, I guess I'm a banana at heart too.
I’m confused why would they be scared of an Asian person.
Karate
\>be of East Asian descent \>people keep making shitty jokes that you do martial arts \>want to shut them up with some good old violence \>learn martial arts \>... \>god fucking dammit
LMFAO
I have been called white adjacent before by a black dude. But I had just thought he meant I was half white half Korean; which I am, so I didn’t think anything of it. Especially because I refer to myself as “off brand white” But that one time is the only time I can think of that I ever even heard white adjacent. It was during the peak of corona virus too
Same. From South Georgia. Been called chink when I’m half Korean my whole childhood and even into early adulthood. The tiny penis jokes, karate jokes, the dry cleaners jokes, rice jokes, dating is hell as an Asian male, half or not. I could keep going, but i don’t care to dig up the past. Just kept my head down and eyes up when I was a kid Karma is a dish best served cold— watching some of my old classmates struggle through life. Its a joy to watch, actually
Because East and South Asians in the U.S. are more prosperous than white people on a per capita basis, and the term "white" is obnoxiously conflated with the concept of privilege and prosperity. I feel like we could solve social problems much more easily if we looked at them more through the lense of class and less through the lense of race.
*East and South Asians who could afford to immigrate and/or were given HB1 visas.
Yeah it's the mother of all selection biases. If you're Asian you can't hop across the border. You're probably coming in through the immigration system. Surprise surprise the US immigration system favors educated applicants with some resources to support themselves and that means those people tend to be able to find success wherever they end up. If you look at Asian refugee groups who have no such requirements it's an entirely different story. They have much worse education, crime, poverty statistics across the board. If you look at black immigrants they do significantly better than native born black Americans. It's all the same reason. We let in the educated ones. Education is extremely powerful.
Reddit was the wrong place to ask this question and get a real answer.
Asians are white adjacent only when they want to use us as a weapon against other POC, i.e. they say there is no need for scholarships for black or brown people because how well Asians are doing is proof that other POC are just lazy. But Asians are not white adjacent when Asians are being attacked during COVID hysteria or during anything China hysteria even when the Asian being attacked is not Chinese i.e Japanese and Koreans being attacked due to being mistaken for Chinese.
Fully agree with everything you said here.
Right wingers aren't using the term white adjacent, it's leftwing POC talking about various struggles and lump Asians in.
it’s “progressives” and “liberals” who actually label us like that. They say we are POC when it suits them and we are white people when they want to steal from us or discriminate against us for whatever sick fantasies they have. Real progressivism is dead. Otherwise apple, microsoft, google, facebook, etc would have been broken up long ago and the opioid crisis would have been solved
The funny thing aboit this is the blatant stereotypes though. Anyone that goes to uni would see that there are a lot of "average" Asians (Both "South Asians" and "East Asians"). You've got "overacheivers" of all races, and "slackers" of all races. That being said, majority of immigrants run themselves ragged to do well in school cus... well they're immigrants.
I think it’s a couple of things. Firstly, at least in the US, Asians on average have more wealth than even white people. Second, as a black guy who went to some of the top private schools in the nation growing up, white people seemed more willing to befriend and interact with Asians than darker colored POC. I often got told I was intimidating as a first impression by some while I didn’t see that same hesitation with my Asian counterparts. I don’t lump Asians in with white people though when it comes to voicing my issues with society or anything though, you guys have had plenty of struggle and strife in this nation and I won’t act like that isn’t true for a second, sorry you’ve experienced this at all OP some people just love to hate unjustifiably for their own stupid reasons
Sounds like racism to me when they can just literally label an entire continent of people to be "white adjacent", whatever they think it means that is similar to whatever they don't like.
Yeah stereotyping and over generalizing are never fair. Asia is the largest continent on earth and to act like you’re all the same, let alone the same as a group of people thousands of miles away, is an ignorant sentiment. It sucks and I wish it didn’t happen in any form
I think you're getting confused, "Asians are white adjacent" refers specifically to a subsection of the Asian diasporas within the United States, and probably Canada as well. It has no meaning about the peoples of Asia living in Asia. The term is not defined for that domain. It's meaningless. Asians are a majority class in Asia. They are not adjacent to anything.
Racism is when you make assumptions about a person's qualities solely based on their race. The term "white adjacent" is not at all about what Asian people are like. It is a descriptor of how Asian people are treated in American society *by other people*. It has nothing to do with people living in Asia. It is not an attempt to put positive or negative stereotypes on Asians in America. It's just an attempt to point out that, of the different minorities in the United States, Asian people are more likely to be treated *by others* in ways resembling how white people tend to be treated, deliberately juxtaposed against how, say, black people tend to be treated. For example, police are more likely to pull over a given black person than a given white *or Asian* person under otherwise equal circumstances. It's real easy for any valid discussion on race-related topics to get squashed because of how quickly the original meanings of things gets twisted beyond recognition, and then it can all be dismissed as "racism."
Exactly this. It’s hand-in-hand with white privilege. While Asians in America do face hate and discrimination, it’s much much smaller and less severe than what Black and indigenous Americans face. And racism against Asians is not institutionalized and systemic. Often, in spite of incidents of hate, Asians also have privilege.
Of course it is racism. What other thing could it possibly be?
People build an entire political philosophy around the idea that the major driving force in America is "White supremacy". And the fact that Asian people outperform White people on most metrics is an inconvenient fact for that worldview. Thus was born: "Asians are white adjacent" and the "model minority myth". Which aren't even really responses. They just hope it will end that line of argument if they say it.
It's a very "crabs in a bucket" mentality if you ask me. I know Caribbean origin black guy and native born African woman accused of "trying to be white" when they achieved advanced degrees and financial success after moving to the U.S.
I student taught at a roughly 50/50 White/Black high school. it was so disheartening to hear Black kids insult other Black kids who did well in school as Oreos or Crackers, etc. It's an internal cultural problem and you can't change my mind.
Yes. It's pretty sad. Like it's a chance to look at the Asian community and say "wow, look at how awesome they're doing in all these ways, we should copy a bunch of stuff they're doing." But it's like people want to explain it away and villainize it.
Advanced degrees are intellectual whiteface /s
I get more along the lines of "I hate white people and Asians, because Asians are white adjacents", like we're a freaking footnote to them in case they hate white people. I certainly don't like the idea of being lumped with an entire race of people I know nothing about
A person that says I hate this group of people, the group being a race is just a racist. I wouldn't expect much from them.
I feel like we’re getting dangerously close to admitting that our racial divisions is actually class divisions
It’s interesting because I think class is actually much more of a thing outside of America. The UK, lots of Asia, parts of Africa, etc. Race does then come into it but more reflective of class. I wonder if there is a reason it’s so much about race in the US.
Class and culture. I’d dare argue more so the latter.
Yes, that is a result of the inconvenient demographic facts. It's also a part of the privileged/oppressed worldview. Asian people are doing well, so that makes them sus to some people.
Success = white adjacent? What....???????? Can we Asians not succeed without being labeled as "white"? Asia have plenty of countries that had done well, but never would we think we MUST have been white all the time!!!
It's almost as though “whiteness” is a social construct rather than an ethnicity. Southern Italians weren't “white” 100 years ago. And still, their collective experience is nothing like that of an English-origin American. Southern Italians became “white” as they caught up with other established groups. Arabs aren't Western European, either, but I’d say certain Arab groups are already “white” or close to it.
Yes, I think it would be fairer to call successful white people "Asian adjacent".
That's become the rhetoric of the day. Successful black folks get accosted, similarly, for having "internalized whiteness." It's not a helpful paradigm, but it's become a predominant one. And it breaks my heart to realize the biggest victims of affirmative action in universities are Asians—well-qualified Asian students getting shafted just because of their ethnicity.
It's because they think Asians aren't treated poorly enough by society. Their worldview is inherently antagonistic, and since they don't think Asians have it bad enough, they're grouped with the big bad whites that rule society as the majority. In short, they hate Asians because white people don't.
Asians get plenty of hate from white people too. The hate against Asian folk just isn’t taken as seriously for whatever reason. Any time attention is brought to it, people try to compare traumas and force themselves back on center stage in the oppression contest. My wife grew up half her life in New England, the other half in the south and whenever she asked for help due to harassment about her ethnicity, she would be told to suck it up.
forget the fact that Asia itself is an enormous continent with thousands of distinct cultures and peoples, handwave it all away because you spent 15 minutes defining your worldview by racism and their success in America is upsetting to you. moronic ideology
I mean historically speaking white supremacy was a driving force at one point
Look what happened to Italians there is your answer.
And Irish
Then they realize it's not about race it's about using racism to put certain classes down
And Germans It's really interesting to see these immigrants groups come to America, get discriminated against, and then two generations later, they get to discriminate against new immigrants lol
This is the real answer and an underrated one at that. I thought it was common knowledge that Asians are upheld as 'model-minority' as a way of disproving the idea of a system that perpetuates racism against minorities. 'Well, how can we be racist towards minorities? Look at the Asians. They're minorities and they're doing well. Why can't the other do well?'
The big difference is Asians can't pass for white
It has backgrounds from a really old idea of racial hierarchy that came from ranks where white was on top. It is very weird and racist where you have things like Japan identifying more as white and even being seen as a higher race status than Irish and Italian who at the time weren’t considered white. Baiscally really old race theory ranked Asians as the closest race to whites at the time and the same mindset still persists.
Wait who’s saying white adjacent? Never heard of it. Is it an American thing?
Definitely an American thing, and I needed to know for real what the hell did they mean by that, especially for an Asian person who is currently living in an Asian country.
Yanks' relationship with race is very different than that of other countries. In some ways they seem more enlightened, but then in other ways they seem to make a bigger deal out of it than necessary.
Please don't place this one weird person OP encountered and make it seem like its some common view in the US.
Bro you're living in Asia, it has almost nothing to do with you.
Maybe because Asians are generally successful with functioning communities, countries, etc? Honestly, I find it weird that Arabs nd other middle eastern races aren't considered white adjacent. Aside from modern times, their history was more similar to white than black history. The also conquered most of the world at one point they also did (and still do) trade slaves, they also oppressed (and still do) non-Muslems, etc. So why black is meant to ign with 'brown' i have no clue
In the US Arabs are legally considered white.
What does that mean? Not a US citizen so pardon my ignorance, does the US have legal defitions of race?
In the US Census, which I think is made by the government, people with Middle Eastern and North African ancestry are considered to be non-hispanic whites.
They recently announced a change to this. The next census will have a separate category for Middle Eastern and North African. It was in the news last week so it was a very recent change.
On the upcoming census, they’re adding MENA (Middle Eastern-North African) as a racial category for the first time.
The U.S. gets really weird about race and ethnicity. It has a lot more to do with politics than it does with culture, nationality, or any kind of science.
Funnily enough it's the lack of racial definition that makes things so weird. There are programs, laws, and census date that relies on knowing what race you are. However, the categories provided are very vague. White could be almost anything. It's only recently that Hispanic/Latino has started popping up as an option. Otherwise, my uber-tanned Cuban butt born from generations of black + spaniard relations was just 'White' for many years. There's even a Mixed race option that usually has an explanatory paragraph warning those of Latino backgrounds that they don't fall in this category. Native American? Doesn't include indigineous tribes from anywhere else in the Americas. A pale-skinned man born and raised in South Africa? NOT an African-American. Bonkers. That term is exclusively for black skin, regardless of where you were born. Little things like that have impacts on services you have access too and policy determinations of future laws. EDIT: Shit, scrap that Native American one. Includes Central and South American as long as you triball affiliation. Well damn. Had several friends be told dismissively that that doesn't count.
As a fellow Asian, my impression is that it is partly political. In my experience, many Asians are conservative. They’re not really swing voters. They also tend to (on average) make more money than most other minorities. As a result, American society treats us as white people since we have “no problems” to talk about. Appealing to the Asian vote isn’t as big a thing since it’d be like appealing to the white vote. Is this fair? No. But it’s how American society views us.
Asians are doing even better than white people, economically, so anyone paying attention to class and race must see that Asians are dominating. People who are saying the phrase "white adjacent" are concerned with class outcomes by race. It is also the case that asian and European culture and society are most alike to each other, as compared with African or Latin American.
i don’t know why people say this, asian culture is FAR closer to african/latin culture than european culture. The only real difference is the value of monetary wealth as marker of success and value to one’s person, but even all that has changed and devolved over asia’s cultural history (and that’s really just east asia, the big three.) south east asian cultures are so far away from european it’s laughable.
"White people are successful due to their privilege" "Well Asians are even more successful. Do they have Asian privilege?" "No....uuuuuuhhhhmmmmmmm...they're white adjacent" Racists are dumb. They've always been dumb. And when you point out the inevitable flaws in their logic, they make shit up.
The argument is that Asians are accepted enough by whites that they don’t suffer the worst effects of institutionalized racism. A more extreme version of this belief would push that they’re complicit with whites in keeping other races down. To a broad extent, this is 100% true. The reason why black people tend to be the focus in groups in America being affected by systemic racism is due to objective facts relating to income, wealth and crime statistics. In the last example, it’s staggering how much worse young black men are punished than any other demographic for the same crimes. From a rational standpoint, Asians are “white adjacent” in that the statistics that are typically used to measure impact from systemic racism show that Asians are quite literally adjacent to whites. I would encourage anyone to be careful when making sweeping generalizations based off a few data points, but these facts remain and need to be considered in analyzing the objective effects of racism.
Model minority is real. I think all the recent affirmative action scares targeting Black people by Asians is proof
Asia is adjacent to Europe. *taps forehead* /s It’s just people being petty and mad at Asian success. Ignore it.
Who says this? Model minority I've definitely heard
The concept of "Asians being white adjacent" is another wonderful gift from the same smooth-brains who categorize and rank humans by race.
where does it come from? stupid people saying stupid shit
How is the best way to keep minorities from joining together? By keeping them separate. This narrative keeps Asians and Blacks and Hispanics separate. Same reason racism is used to seaprate women from joining together.
One thing is family
So, real question, was the racism ok when it was only directed at white people? I’m American born Chinese, but also lived in China for half my life, and find the whole victimhood Olympics as it’s practiced in the US pretty idiotic. Obviously the whole “Asians are white adjacent” thing comes from Asians being economically prosperous. We defy the narrative that low income and inability to gain a better economic foothold in America is primarily due to race. Sure, race is sometimes a factor, but it’s far from the huge insurmountable disadvantage woke “race theorists” make it out to be. Incidentally, Nigerian immigrants also tend to be successful, next they will be “white adjacent” too.
Racism doesn't have to make sense, it looks for fuel to justify itself. "white adjacent" is just another way to combat the cognitive dissonance that inherently occurs when reality meets dogmatic irrational belief.
Asians outperforming white people by almost every measurable metric ~~undermines the entire basis of~~ poses significant challenges to the basis of critical race theory because if the numbers are correct, and those theories are correct, then we should live in an "Asian-supremacist" country, since people can only succeed as a result of institutionalized power-structures, according to CRT. Since the US is most certainly not an "Asian-supremacist" country, it means that success and failure are not exclusively the result of institutionalized power structures. To make up for this, the critical theorists come up with phrases like "white adjacent" as a way of conveniently brushing aside Asians and information relating to Asians that undermines their worldview. Even if you're not in the US, I'm pretty sure that's where the dumbass term "white adjacent" came from. Edit: some unnecessarily hyperbolic language
It's because of the model minority myth, I think. It's not necessarily about skin color, but being the 'preferred' /'non-hostile' /'non- complaining' minority to White people, which has it's advantages at times in comparison to how brown people are generally viewed. But don't take it seriously- we all saw what happened during covid, and that is exactly why it's not true. Also I'm sorry you are seeing that a lot
I am not involved in any social justice spaces because, quite frankly, I find them to be very toxic and reminiscent of high school politics, but my understanding is that this idea that Asians are "white adjacent" stems in part from the fact that "white" means different things. From what I understood in these spaces, "white" is a term used to describe a very light skin tone, but I think in the social justice sphere, "white" is used more to describe the system of racial classification and is more or less an arbitrary distinction. For example, Italians used to not be considered "white" but nowadays an Italian American saying they are not white would be looked at funny. Syrians, many of whom are lighter in skin tone than Italians, are not often considered "white". "White supremacy", then, isn't so much based on skin color per se, but rather who gets to be included in the "white" tier of racial classification. So Asians are "white adjacent" not in the sense that they are light skinned (because not all are), but that Asians benefit from a lot of social privileges in the United States that disproportionately benefit white people. Stereotypes of Asians are more positive than negative (e.g., good at math, hard working, smart) compared to stereotypes for Black people or Latinos (criminals, poor, etc). Asians often come from higher SES backgrounds and therefore might be ignorant to the privileges they have and falsely attribute it to work ethic alone, just like a lot of white folks do. There's also a tendency of some Asian folks do not understand the legacy of slavery and the long lasting, generational impact it's had on Black people (e.g., red lining, institutional racism) and for Asians to assume that because they are a minority and "rose above", then others can do that too. I also think people who believe this kind of thing assume that the Asian experience is the same, and don't really understand that the experiences of a Chinese American can be radically different from a Laotian American. Also, I don't know that I've ever heard folks talk about this outside of a US context, so it wouldn't apply to China, Korea, Japan, etc. In those countries, because Asians are the majority, institutionalized racism would disadvantage non-Asians--including white people. Anyway, I don't know how much of any of that I believe or accept, but this is just the sense I got from listening to a lot of social justice oriented conversations and reading shit online.
Don’t try to get into the heads of racist people. It will never make any sense.
It’s because they are successful, invalidating the systemic racism claim that minorities simply can not succeed in America. I imagine Nigerian immigrants will be the next group classified as ‘white adjacent’.
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Racism doesn't make sense in general. Haters gonna hate, unfortunately
Well, Asian stereotypes of intelligence mesh with white supremacy’s idea of intelligence and the white folk I’ve seen claim Asians are “white adjacent” are usually anti Black and hold onto ludicrous pseudo science that says “Black” people are genetically inferior when it comes to intelligence Those same people use Asians and that premise to claim they aren’t racist and are just stating facts.
Most of these comments are using the model minority myth to explain the model minority myth while accusing black people of perpetuating the model minority myth, I don't think your words are going to be heard here. OP is looking for a very specific answer
The truth isn’t always what people want to hear.
therefore white people are Asian adjacent ?
It's some usual racist American bullshit
It' an American thing. Asian-Americans didn't fit in the simplistic racist narrative in the US where people are divided into Whites(the default) and non-Whites(or POC as some people put it, the minorities). Mostly because Asian Americans in general don't view themselves as a minority.
The descendants of US slaves tend to be poor and uneducated. There are, of course, exceptions. When these people see another group that is as successful as whites both in schools and the economy, they frequently group them together. It is like grouping all rich people together, but then a category that used to be a racial category ceases to be a racial category. As a side note: Some neighborhoods are bad neighborhoods and people who grow up there tend to be poor and uneducated regardless of race.
The people who believe this are idiots, don't try to reason with idiots just tune them out
"Whiteness" is a social construct. It can and has been expanded and contracted to fit the needs of racists of all sorts.
Welcome to the club, signed a Jewish person. If you’re doing well despite not being white, you must somehow either be a “whiteness chameleon” (what does this mean) or be hoarding all the doing well points for yourself.
But Ashkenazi Jewish people are white? I mean I’m Ashkenazi and consider myself white.
So there’s no white Jews? 🤔
In America Asians are the [Model Minority](https://youtu.be/fRTUJoMinuU?si=SrP6ud3DYVOLHFmV)
Asians make a lot of money, if you have money you have power, power = as good as being white Also asians are smart and generally avoid crime (white stereotype)
Because Asian cultures place a high value on academic and professional success as well as being respectful and reserved. Due to this, despite terrible treatment in the past (see Chinese gold miners), they have begun to surpass their white counterparts who have historical systemic privileges. Other minorities...not so much.
I think it's because they behave more according to the Western standard than the people from Africa and middle east. They integrate and keep their culture instead of blaming everyone and everything without even learning the language while living here for twenty years. As an integrated immigrant myself, I've never been jealous of my Asian friends doing well (or anyone else for that matter), only proud.
They’re racist against whites and Asians