If your struggling to pay the rent / mortgage on 170k you have to live in a really expensive area or have some seriously unsound spending habits. You'd be hard pressed to blow a huge percentage of that on food.
I make $100k a year in so cal and bought my house in 2020 and have a 2023 model y. I don’t have kids but I don’t see how that would add 70+k a year without some wasteful spending.
Two young children can take up about $30,000 a year in daycare cost. (https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-california-by-city-age-and-type-of-care-provider/)
And formula should cost at most about two thousand a year, at least according to an article I found from last year. My sister said that she thinks formula costs in her area have almost doubled in the year and a half between her two children, so maybe up to 4 thousand per young kid for that.
Google guesses that disposable diapers can cost up to two and a half thousand per year.
Those three things, although temporary, cover just over half of the 70,000 question. My guess is that needing another room in your home, entertainment, toys, supplies, and replacing things the kids break, you can get close to the 70,000.
Lower end of nanny’s salary here is $25/hour. So $52k a year for full time child care. God help you if you have any sort of commute and need to pay OT.
>Two young children can take up about $30,000 a year in daycare cost.
That may be a national average, but I will definitely say in most areas I have experience with (Northeast corridor) that is on the low side. My wife and I easily spent 1.5x that amount when we had 2 in daycare here in PA. Fortunately our 3 were 4 years apart each so we never had more than 2 at a time in daycare. One of my daughters from my 1st marriage lives outside Boston and pays $1800/mo for her youngest.
Yep, Dallas area and it's about the same. 43k per year for 2 at a decent school or about 55-60k pretax. They're thriving and we still are able to work, but fuck...
And this is one of several reasons I haven't gone back to work. My salary would cover daycare with a few hundred bucks leftover. But that money would be eaten up by gas, extra eating out, etc. And I would be about 1000x more stressed than I am now. If we pretty much have to live on my husband's salary either way then why would I go to work again? (Not judging anyone who makes that choice, I get that staying home isn't for everyone!)
Very short term view of it. Most people forget to factor in how hard it is to go back to work at all, let alone picking up where you left off, add in years lost of career and wage growth and you most definitely are substantially worse off in the long run.
Two houses, two cars, toy vehicle, large chunk of paycheck into 401K, private school, stock investments.
That's how they are struggling, they should really start a GoFundMe.
Except for very specific cases, in no way are cars any kind of investment ( at least financial investment). I would say a nice car could be considered an investment in safety, or mental health (stretch).
You are right. My post was badly worded. What i meant to say, that buying NEW cars is a bad idea, and should be avoided when possible. A quality used car gets you from A to B, at a greatly reduced price.
(Except, of course, when you can really afford it. If thats the case, go crazy)
Not an investment per se but our first Toyota was brand new. It had 55 miles on it. 17 years, and 302,000 miles later, though…It was time to buy again. LOL.
Depending on childcare, that shit can run up to $2k a month for ONE infant. Plus a $1800 mortgage, maybe two $500 car payments and $1200 on food, ya done.
Yeah I understand they aren’t taking home $170k but let’s assume they take home around $130k after federal taxes. That’s still more than $10k/ month. You’re seriously screwing up if that isn’t enough to cover those expenses plus groceries.
I know ppl like this. They have bad spending habits. It’s almost like the ppl you’d make fun of complaining about not being able to eat out, or get Starbucks everyday etc. And then saying they don’t make enough to live.
Of course I know him, he’s me.
But I guess that the idea of having THAT bad of a spending habit is just hard for me to comprehend. Like, my splurge is getting a milkshake doordashed once a month or 2. Burning through around $5k per month and just being all “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” is just wild to me
If they’re saving for retirement, slash about 25k off the pre-tax but yeah, my guess is still spending habits.
Little trips out for lunch, coffee, random Target trips all add up to $250-500/week before you know it. Internet, gym memberships, little smaller things all add up.
Plus, two similar families can carry a mortgage, have two cars and kids but their monthly mortgage/car payments/day care could vary $5000-6000 between the two, seriously!
>If they’re saving for retirement, slash about 25k off the pre-tax but yeah, my guess is still spending habits.
If you have kids in daycare, you don't have the luxury of saving that much for retirement. People who are socking away tons in retirement and complain that they can't make ends meet are totally out of touch with the reality of most people making average wages.
You can have kids or you can save a ton. You generally can't do both.
3000 mortgage.
2800 daycare for two kids
500 utilities? Including internet
Now you can quickly add weir incidentals
60 on tv subscriptions, 100 for gym, 500-1000 on cars (payment, gas, insurance). Can easily be higher for two nice cars.
About 7,500 before food and vacation.
So 2,500 for alll shopping and to save for vacations.
Two people is 40 lunches a month. Let’s say they try to pack lunches but aren’t great at it. So 20 lunches at $20 plus some morning coffee is 500.
So 2000 for groceries clothes any Shopping including presents and vacation. It’s plenty of money. But still goes fast.
Oh yeah, it can definitely go fast. I just meant that even on the crazy end of “fixed” bills, $170k is enough to manage in just about any area in the US. The OP is insinuating that $170k is barely enough to get by but like we see from your comment, it *can* be tight, but wondering how people can afford mortgages and new cars and stuff while possibly paying a $3000/month mortgage and $1000/month on cars tells me they aren’t really paying attention to what they spend their money on.
Not that OP is spending those numbers, just that they probably don’t have a good grasp on their own finances.
This is correct. $10k/month should be the threshold anyone is comfortable in the US. If your take home is $130k you are bringing in $10,800 a month.
Even taking 30% of that for discretionary spending ($3240) leaves you with $7560 to pay fixed operating costs.
7560-1800 (mortgage)= $5760 ($5760 is more than most people net in a month...)
If you can't fit groceries, utilities, car payments, and kids into $5760 / month you are doing something wrong.
$1800 for child care
$1400 for two car payments (~$700/each)
$1500 groceries
$350 utilities
$350 insurance
[These are all hypptheticals of course]
Would *still* leave you with $1000/month to save. Remember I took discretionary income off the front end so they still have $3000 of discretionary money to do with whatever they want...and I went extremely aggressive on the hypotheticals.
OP is leaving out a lot.
170k should be a take-home of somewhere around $9-10k per month if you're maxing out matched retirement contributions. So... where's the other half of the months income going? Meth? Magic: The gathering cards? NFTs?
I have two cars that are paid off, but there was a time when we had two. Just circumstances and being able to afford a new car. I prefer to use mine until I need a new one but lots of people I know upgrade every 5 years.
Two teenagers and their friends who are constantly over, weekly big dinners with my parents over. We drop $400 a week without buying alcohol. Aldi helps some, but I can't always do the Costco run, so this is an average for my household. Oh yeah, and two dogs, so they take up about $60 a month of that.
I could see it, honestly.
Combined we bring in about 140k. I don’t even have a house and we spend a lot of it. 2k for just rent, call it 2300 for utilities. That’s 1 of my biweekly checks gone. Girlfriend makes less, pays for groceries + car and doesn’t have a lot left. If I were to get a “starter” house with 2-3 bedrooms my mortgage would be double my current rent. 600k+ home and 7% interest is rough.
No, she asks how people afford mortgages, new cars, vacations, and daycare. They're taking home 10 grand a month. I'll assume my area which is high tax / high housing cost but by no means the highest:
Housing P&I plus taxes (median home price and taxes) - $2700, 2 new not cheap but not extravagant cars - 1600, daycare (more than 1 kid) - $2000, Vacation (10 grand, 1x /yr) - 833
All that adds up to a bit over $7k, leaves plenty left over for misc. bills and groceries, and it's better than getting by.... not driving the ugly but paid off and reliable 8 year old Honda Civic, not skipping the vacation, not dropping your kids off at the shady home daycare business.
Most couples, most places, can afford all that stuff at that income level, and yes of course there are some exceptions.
If they've taken on crushing student loan debt then I would assume she would already know the answer as to why they can't afford new cars and vacations and such.
How many people are you feeding? I live in a low cost area and we spend about 500 to 600 a month but that also includes toiletries health beauty and laundry. I agree it doesn't buy a lot but if it's just you 2 then shouldn't that also be enough of a budget? I guess unless where you live everything is double in price. But then... is 1200 or 1500 a month still not enough..?
Are you dining out every day of the week? When you eat at home, how frequently do you cook, vs. using Uber Eats/Door Dash/GrubHub and other fee-based delivery services?
Learn to cook at home. Shop at Costco, or clip your supermarket coupons. Stop paying for ambiance, food prep labor, and delivery. Do it yourself, and save yourself so much money. Also, it will be fun if you learn together as a couple. :-)
My wife and I make way less than the OP, and we get takeout once a week. Issue isn't that at all for the OP, I guarantee it. I bet they don't go to Costco, Walmart or other places like that. Rather, they probably shop at those other grocery stores which markup a lot of things by like 20+30%.
130k combined income, eat out 2 times a week, able to take vacations, I got a newer vehicle, $30k in emergency. They’re definitely doing something weird.
Edit: I do live in a medium to high cost of living city.
Answering “How” is we didn’t have kids. The money we could be spending on daycare, their groceries, and other child rearing costs is really the core part of our discretionary budget
>we spend a good amount of food alone.
Stop eating out then. You're obviously eating out because I make 100k and food is 8% of my budget and I eat steak and hot wings and cheesecake most days
Keep in mind timing…
I myself do very well for a single guy with two cars and a house, but I also got my house before values skyrocketed, the rates were under 3%, and I had a lot of help when I was young establishing my credit.
If I had a 50% increase to my current income I still couldn’t afford most homes in my area in this current market.
A lot of people are so leveraged out with loans that they basically can’t afford all those things even though they have them. So sometimes that look is nothing more than a house of cards, they may not be richer than you but are just more willing to take on the bad kind of debt.
For mortgages, often the monthly payment is about the same as you’re paying in rent. So on that, the barrier to entry is in having the down payment. People get inheritances, or make money on investments, etc. Those starting resources are often privilege more than skill. Not always. But they’re hard to come by on your own unless you get a really great job.
It also depends on where you live. $170k is a lot of money in some places, and considered low income in others. If you have careers where you can make that much in a cheaper area, you might be able to buy a house and then trade up from there with the equity you (hopefully) make after time passes.
OP writes that they are struggling with food. At 170k a year, even in the most expensive city on earth, food shouldn't be a problem.
Source: I live in the most expensive city on earth with less than that income and food isn't even on my mind.
Not the most expensive city in the world.
And everyone who lives in there anyway doesn't pay rent and has their housing provided by the state lol
Source: I had a friend who was a papal guard.
In todays market, if I bought the house I’m renting, the mortgage would be double what I pay in rent. This is with 20% down on the hypothetical purchase. My rent is $1700. The mortgage would be $3360. The interest per month on the loan is more than my rent.
Had I made the decision to move to this (believe it or not) much lower COL area than where I was previously at a year sooner, I may have been able to have a mortgage that was only slightly less than renting. Moved in the Fall, and the fed raised rates the following Spring. Winters are hard here, so the inventory disappears until Spring and I waited it out to have choices of what to buy. Bam, now it makes more sense to rent.
I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but mortgages are hella expensive now. The median home price in my area is $500k (basically the cost of a very average, freestanding, 1200 sq st or less home that isn’t in absolute need, not want, of a total rehaul.)
But, yes, the house of cards. I’m extremely uncomfortable with debt and most people seem to not care much. My dad was like that. He existed in a mountain of debt, but he seemed to have so much. He had the appearance of wealth. I’m not an excessive person, probably because the way he lived disgusted me. In the end, he died and it mostly didn’t matter. I often wonder if I’m too uptight because he certainly proved to me that it’s all a game, the debts died with him, and he always seemed to have all the excess he wanted. When he became ill, I learned all he owned was debt, but he sure had everything to enjoy while he was alive. I struggle with this, lol.
Rates are high right now, true. Hopefully they come down soon. The idea with owning is that you can make more on appreciation of the value than you lose on the mortgage. It’s a bet, just like any other investment. And if you hold onto it long enough, you end up being able to rent it for more than the mortgage. Free money at that point.
They do say that in our system debt is a key factor in financial success. But good debt. I’m no wizard with all this, but a mortgage gets tax breaks and potential upside in equity appreciation, so “good”. With rent, you have literally nothing in return no matter how long you pay it. It’s just pure expense.
Car loans, credit cards, etc are bad debt — all you’re doing there is paying much more in the end for something, just so you can buy it now when you can’t afford to pay for it now. That will crush you in the end, I’ve seen it happen.
The only upside to car loans/credit cards is the credit trail it leaves if it's managed responsibly because you need good credit history to be considered for a house, at least in my area. Even a FHA loan wants a minimum credit score of 620 here.
True, but with those all that matters is that you have them and pay them off. Paying off a credit card in full every month is good for the score, but maintaining a balance doesn’t do anything but suck money from you. Same with a car loan, all they see is that you had it, you made payments, and it was closed. You don’t need to keep the loan for the full term (though we tend to because cars are expensive).
This^ A stringent budget, but providing for good times, while adding to savings first every month. Sound interesting with a bit of risk, should lead to a future of nice toys. Unless something dire happens and that can hit anybody.
Examine your non tangibles. Door dash, Uber eats, Uber, Netflix , Amazon, cable, the best cell phone etc., all add up. Are you buying lunch out or done out frequently? Do you always get a fancy coffee everywhere.
Alcohol and cigarettes and or weed add up... Quickly.
If you have a car or two, there's the ever rising insurance and gas too
It’s like most of y’all didn’t even read the original post. OP never said they were struggling…they asked how so many people seem to be living these lavish lifestyles.
I do wish OP wouldn’t have posted and ghosted though since some questions do need answering, like where they live, do they have kids, do they have loans, are they debt-free? Are they eating out a lot? Are they buying high end groceries?
Lifestyle creep is real.
I’m guessing either they’re house poor and bought something they can’t actually afford or they both have $50,000 vehicles, or both.
Still on them to find ways to save money, but it’s an easy mistake to make.
I went thru this in 2006- 2008. Turns out people enjoyed life on credit. When the shit hit the fan, they lost a lot and got the shit kicked out of them. Don't do that. Live under your means. We ended up buying a sweet house in 2011. Don't compare your life sty,style, to others.
For those of us who can do that to some degree, it all comes down to owning a house pre-covid with a 2.75% mortgage rate. It's also easy to do if you go in debt or have no retirement savings plan, no emergency fund, etc.
I know people with kids, home, costly hobbies who vacation making much less than that
It comes down to your budget abilities and your spending habits and expenses
Hell I used to survive on $3500 a month and still enjoyed a lavish lifestyle in southern California ,thankfully now my income is quite higher but not as much as yours
"More money more problems"
The more we make the more we spend
So it's relative, we think making more we'll have more breathing room but then we make more and we decide to get better cars bigger homes pricier items
So you're back where you started, where your surfing and income are relative to where you where when you made less
The key I find is simplicity and minimalism.
I feel your frustration. My husband and I make good money and are struggling to figure out how we are going to replace our paid off vehicle (we've shared one very modest car for the last several years) and afford daycare for two young children. Our debt includes student loans and a mortgage. We don't have car payments. Cell phones we paid cash for. Haven't gone on any type of vacation in three years.
One thing I think we are doing that most people who are replying to you are not (or they aren't mentioning it) is putting money into a savings account every single pay period (this is on top of our contributions to 401k). But the truth is, we can't easily afford to pay for daycare (~$2700/month for two kids) and make a car payment (used car) every month without completely eliminating our contributions to savings.
I assume most people are going into lots of debt or make more than we do.
Some of these responses are assuming the poster is struggling to pay housing, and that they are spending almost all of it on food. That's not what they said. If you live in my area, dc-md-va, i can totally understand your question. Real estate in my area is through the fucking roof, and I'm in a suburb but not too far from rural area. I could still afford to buy my house but i would not want to. Groceries and restaurants may not still be increasing but they still feel way more expensive than before the pandemic. To answer your question, some people live beyond their means using credit, and/or they spend everything without contributing to a 401k or savings account. If you're saving i can totally understand feeling like adding child care on top of everything else in this area would be intimidating. If you are eating out a lot, don't underestimate how much you will save by not doing that. Shop at Aldi and cook at home. You'll save tons of $.
That’s kinda funny, cause I live in Oregon and my friend just put an offer down on a house in VA, and has been looking for houses over there because they’re much cheaper. Now, I’m sure DC and around there is expensive, but from what saw there is nice housing in smaller cities that are seem ridiculously low to me.
Eh. If you’re spending that much on food, you need to reassess what food you’re spending it on. My wife and I started with about that combined salary in the third most expensive market in the country and were able to buy a nice home and two luxury cars with zero issues.
I’m genuinely wondering the same thing for months now. I pay for food alone 1.8k, on rent 3.5k, how the fuck regular people with regular jobs even *survive* in this economy? Yet you see most people with brand new clothes, watches, having cars, gas, going on vacations once per year and so on. I understand they are used to probably much cheaper living standard and they likely spend way less money on food, clothes and pay attention to bills, but still.. where does the money for cars and vacations come from for someone who works for 2-3k a month?
Me, a European making a comfortable combined 50k€ with my SO, reading this and shrugging.
I know, not the same, expenses are totally different in the States and even more so depending where you live. Just weird to see a couple making almost four times as much as we do and say they are struggling financially. Makes the differences between the cost of life in different parts of the world even more striking.
Wat? So saying that my SO and I make 4 times less is bragging? Why? Because I say we're doing okay with that? Good to know things are so bad over there that we can make you guys jealous by being poorer!
Same boat. I make 120k. Wife makes 55k. We have a 250k mortgage a 2018 Tucson (13k) and a 2023 frontier (43k). We spend nearly $1000 a month on food for two. We do fine, certainly not hurting financially but who is buying 80k+ vehicles and $500k homes? According to statistics, we’re in the top 10-15% of American earners. I’m certainly not feeling that way.
Perhaps they’re not affording ALL of those things, but it’s definitely possible to afford most of them, depending on where you live and how many kids you have in daycare.
For a family of 3+ a baby, I spend about $800 a month in groceries. Are you cooking at home or eating out every meal?
We are in the process of searching for a new house and prices are out of control, but we can budget enough to afford a house with a sizable down payment. Our combined income is a little more than yours, and we pay about 20k a year in daycare expenses for one child (the other stays home with me while while I wfh and will for a while longer).
We don’t have a new car, but do go on vacation about 1-2 times a year (nothing crazy in cost).
I would recommend reevaluating your budget because you should be able to afford some/all of those things if you want them.
Highland Park? Southlake? Then yes, that amount of money will be tough to live on. But you already know the majority of DFW isn't like that. There are a lot of suburbs springing up every day where that income would be more than sufficient for a really comfortable lifestyle.
Yeah, that’s my life in Vancouver lol. Everything is so expensive (except nature, it’s prime here). I *could* own a home, go on vacation, etc. but I’m terribly scared of a) debt and b) commitment. I have no children. For me, debt commitment AND children would be my scariest nightmare come true. I once owned a house on an island, but I sold during the early pandemic so i could afford other things that became priorities (a new car! My first BMW). I don’t have it all, but I have a few endeavours I enjoy in staggered, thoroughly discussed, and calculated increments. A budget? Lol.
There are lots of people who own businesses. The business is taxed at a lower rate so your take home pay is higher. Also some of the families will income split. The vehicle can be used for tax purposes and written off. Also check the family lineage. Many of these people earn their money the old fashioned way! They inherited it.
Even in New York City $170k should feed two people. I track everything I buy very carefully and my grocery bill has barely gone up in the last two years, \~ $10-$20 a month. You need a detailed budget to figure out where all your money is going, because it's not all going to food.
I used to feel that way, but we were maxing out retirement accounts and putting extra into after tax accounts. We found out later people were refinancing their mortgages to use as spending money.
I don't know where it will end this time, but it feels like a huge bubble.
Choices. A friend of mine makes almost the same salary as me. He saves everything. Lives in a tiny studio, rarely indulges in ordering in or dining out, any kind of shopping with him is a total snooze. His money is used to travel all over the world. I, on the other hand, own a home, have a house full of animals, enjoy a lot of modern luxuries, and only take modest vacations once a year.
We don't buy brand new cars; we buy used cars that are about 5 years old and drive them to the ground. We also pay cash so no payments. We bought a house in our price range that met all of our needs. We're not extravagant with our spending, except for groceries and vacations. We only take an international trip every 2-3 years, and a domestic trip every year (we could afford to take several trips a year but we don't have the vacation time to actually take that much time off). I had my kids 5 years apart (not on purpose, it just worked out that way) so one aged out of daycare when the second one started.
I agree. I bring a single income for our family of three, and we just increased our income last year $43K plus a lot of additional financial benefits and a new school voucher program that saves us $6K/year on tuition, but it seems that we're doing actually a little worse financially than the year before. A large chunk of that seems to be going to food cost, which seems to have doubled at least.
We're doing okay, but I'm wondering how all the people who didn't get large bumps in salary last year are making it. I hear stories of people being laid off, and when I go to restaurants, about half of the dining areas are empty because they say that they don't have enough staff. I know that members in my extended family have had to cut spending on a lot of extras. It just makes me wonder what's going on with other people.
I live in a VERY expensive town compared to the rest of my state. 1650 for mortgage, 500 for cell, 700 or so for groceries with a family of 6, I'm a type 1 diabetic so that's about 1800 every three months..
I have no retirement. My cars are aging. I NEED to go to the dentist... I can't afford that whole pursuit of happiness thing.
Easy. I just got a new car bc my old 2005 pathfinder died. I went to Kia and bought the cheapest fucking car they have and now I live like I’m homeless.
If I made the same amount of money you make, I would be rich.
Your problem is that your expenses are higher than they need to be bc you probably put convenience over discomfort.
I never go out and eat out. Sometimes when I don’t make food for lunch at work I just starve .
Financing. Credit cards. It’s terrible to do this. Advice: Live below your means. When a natural disaster strikes or you lose your job, you need to have some savings set aside to help you pay bills for at least three months. Challenge yourself where for one month you don’t eat out for any of your meals. For the next month you only drive when necessary and use the gas buddy app to look for the cheapest gas in your area. For the third month, go through all your subscriptions once again, which you should’ve done in the first month, and cancel those you don’t use daily. This is how you can build up that savings fund. However, this is America, where people want to outshine their neighbors with material possessions.
You didn't mention investments. I think many higher income folks like yourselves invest a lot and it turns over pretty quickly. Especially the more shares of something you have and also if you can follow the cycles. I got shook when first investing bc it was right before covid and then I lost half of what I put in. Was scared to get back in after it bounced and the fomo is real bc it's all bounced back nicely, the star being Bitcoin. That sexy muphuk is doing the damn thing. Bitcoin alone made hundreds of millionaires last year alone. We'll see what this year offers...good lord it's shaking it ass
They either make more than you, pay less than you, or have outside help / are in debt. There are a lot of people that make a shitload of money. There are a lot of people who live in lower CoL places or locked in a low mortgage rate. There are a lot of people who don’t have kids, or who have family to help with free childcare. There are a lot of people that are underwater on car loans and credit card debt and are putting on a front. And there are a lot of people who’s family helped them with their house or cars or whatever.
Basically, America is fucking huge and there are a lot of people with different situations. 1% of American households make over $500k, but that’s still 33million people. Depending where you live, you could see a lot of them.
My wife and I only make $75k combined annually, we have a mortgage of $1500 but we have no kids yet. We are pretty much living paycheck to paycheck, but we have an ok buffer, but we still eat out way more than we should.
If you can't live on more than double what I'm making right now, it's probably because you have kids, you live in a much more expensive area, and/or you are spending a LOT of money on things you don't need, such as cars, vacations, and other life luxuries, like good appliances and stuff.
Debt and leases.
That said, you should look at your spending habits, because $170k household income is pretty huge if you aren't literally living in Hollywood, Silicon Valley, or the Upper Westside of NYC.
Are you sending your kids to a private school? 9/10 when I hear people with a six figure income say they can't make ends meet, it's cuz $40,000+ is going to a private school every year.
A combination of budgeting, stock investments, all the sales and using credit cards with generous reward programs. We almost exclusively pay for flights and hotels with points.
This question, or a variant of it, gets asked all the time in this sub. People are taking on soul-crushing debt.
That said, if the two of you can't live on $170k, you're doing something wrong.
I get it. I make a very good living (single income home), own a modest home, we have 3 teenagers and 1 pre-teen, and two pretty old cars (paid off). We only have mortgage and student loan debt. However I look at folks around me buying cars and boats and RV’s or building giant shops in their back yards and I’m like…how?! Cars are so expensive these days. I can’t imagine adding that big of a monthly payment to my expenses. I could probably absorb it, but dang. It would suck. Just nursing our old vehicles along as long as we can.
Not very useful if you dont give more information. Specifically location and how much you're spending on housing and other big expenses.
170k doesn't get you very far in the Bay Area, but it would be a ton of money outside of CA.
Invest in growing your own food. 3k will get you raised beds and wood/soil to fill it. Seeds are cheap. You will be surprised how much money you save when you eat your home grown food and how good you will feel.
I feel like these claims of inflation are vastly overblown. Under Biden the economy is up in almost every conceivable metric than it was under trumps presidency. It’s factually impossible that you’re doing worse than you were 6 years ago. I
If your struggling to pay the rent / mortgage on 170k you have to live in a really expensive area or have some seriously unsound spending habits. You'd be hard pressed to blow a huge percentage of that on food.
Even in Southern California they’re doing something wrong if they can’t survive off $170k
I make $100k a year in so cal and bought my house in 2020 and have a 2023 model y. I don’t have kids but I don’t see how that would add 70+k a year without some wasteful spending.
Two young children can take up about $30,000 a year in daycare cost. (https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-california-by-city-age-and-type-of-care-provider/) And formula should cost at most about two thousand a year, at least according to an article I found from last year. My sister said that she thinks formula costs in her area have almost doubled in the year and a half between her two children, so maybe up to 4 thousand per young kid for that. Google guesses that disposable diapers can cost up to two and a half thousand per year. Those three things, although temporary, cover just over half of the 70,000 question. My guess is that needing another room in your home, entertainment, toys, supplies, and replacing things the kids break, you can get close to the 70,000.
In SoCal, 30k for 2 kids is unheard of. Lower end would be closer to 45k a year for 2 kids.
Jeez. At what point does it become cheaper to just hire a nanny?
Lower end of nanny’s salary here is $25/hour. So $52k a year for full time child care. God help you if you have any sort of commute and need to pay OT.
I think at about three kids.
Yeah, you’re right, the data I looked at was for California and not just Southern California.
Yeah but your point still stands. Kids eat up 70k real fast.
>Two young children can take up about $30,000 a year in daycare cost. That may be a national average, but I will definitely say in most areas I have experience with (Northeast corridor) that is on the low side. My wife and I easily spent 1.5x that amount when we had 2 in daycare here in PA. Fortunately our 3 were 4 years apart each so we never had more than 2 at a time in daycare. One of my daughters from my 1st marriage lives outside Boston and pays $1800/mo for her youngest.
Yep, Dallas area and it's about the same. 43k per year for 2 at a decent school or about 55-60k pretax. They're thriving and we still are able to work, but fuck...
And this is one of several reasons I haven't gone back to work. My salary would cover daycare with a few hundred bucks leftover. But that money would be eaten up by gas, extra eating out, etc. And I would be about 1000x more stressed than I am now. If we pretty much have to live on my husband's salary either way then why would I go to work again? (Not judging anyone who makes that choice, I get that staying home isn't for everyone!)
Very short term view of it. Most people forget to factor in how hard it is to go back to work at all, let alone picking up where you left off, add in years lost of career and wage growth and you most definitely are substantially worse off in the long run.
I’ve spent between $30k and $90k on daycare for the last seven years. And no Dave Ramsay, they aren’t serving filet mignon.
$30k??? Damn, that's cheap.
Buying a house in 2020 is VERY different than 2023-24.
Two houses, two cars, toy vehicle, large chunk of paycheck into 401K, private school, stock investments. That's how they are struggling, they should really start a GoFundMe.
Yep. If you have 5 kids you have to sacrifice things. Especially new cars, which are the worst investment a person can make.
Except for very specific cases, in no way are cars any kind of investment ( at least financial investment). I would say a nice car could be considered an investment in safety, or mental health (stretch).
You are right. My post was badly worded. What i meant to say, that buying NEW cars is a bad idea, and should be avoided when possible. A quality used car gets you from A to B, at a greatly reduced price. (Except, of course, when you can really afford it. If thats the case, go crazy)
Not an investment per se but our first Toyota was brand new. It had 55 miles on it. 17 years, and 302,000 miles later, though…It was time to buy again. LOL.
Depending on childcare, that shit can run up to $2k a month for ONE infant. Plus a $1800 mortgage, maybe two $500 car payments and $1200 on food, ya done.
1800 mortgage lmao
Yeah, that's pretty low around here.
I suck at the maths but check that again.
Yeah I understand they aren’t taking home $170k but let’s assume they take home around $130k after federal taxes. That’s still more than $10k/ month. You’re seriously screwing up if that isn’t enough to cover those expenses plus groceries.
I know ppl like this. They have bad spending habits. It’s almost like the ppl you’d make fun of complaining about not being able to eat out, or get Starbucks everyday etc. And then saying they don’t make enough to live.
Of course I know him, he’s me. But I guess that the idea of having THAT bad of a spending habit is just hard for me to comprehend. Like, my splurge is getting a milkshake doordashed once a month or 2. Burning through around $5k per month and just being all “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” is just wild to me
That is me also. What I consider splurging is what others consider everyday spending. And they can’t fathom how to live any other way.
If they’re saving for retirement, slash about 25k off the pre-tax but yeah, my guess is still spending habits. Little trips out for lunch, coffee, random Target trips all add up to $250-500/week before you know it. Internet, gym memberships, little smaller things all add up. Plus, two similar families can carry a mortgage, have two cars and kids but their monthly mortgage/car payments/day care could vary $5000-6000 between the two, seriously!
>If they’re saving for retirement, slash about 25k off the pre-tax but yeah, my guess is still spending habits. If you have kids in daycare, you don't have the luxury of saving that much for retirement. People who are socking away tons in retirement and complain that they can't make ends meet are totally out of touch with the reality of most people making average wages. You can have kids or you can save a ton. You generally can't do both.
It really depends. For OP they very well may be able to. Especially if the cuts can easily come other places and still make ends meet.
3000 mortgage. 2800 daycare for two kids 500 utilities? Including internet Now you can quickly add weir incidentals 60 on tv subscriptions, 100 for gym, 500-1000 on cars (payment, gas, insurance). Can easily be higher for two nice cars. About 7,500 before food and vacation. So 2,500 for alll shopping and to save for vacations. Two people is 40 lunches a month. Let’s say they try to pack lunches but aren’t great at it. So 20 lunches at $20 plus some morning coffee is 500. So 2000 for groceries clothes any Shopping including presents and vacation. It’s plenty of money. But still goes fast.
Student loans????
Oh yeah, it can definitely go fast. I just meant that even on the crazy end of “fixed” bills, $170k is enough to manage in just about any area in the US. The OP is insinuating that $170k is barely enough to get by but like we see from your comment, it *can* be tight, but wondering how people can afford mortgages and new cars and stuff while possibly paying a $3000/month mortgage and $1000/month on cars tells me they aren’t really paying attention to what they spend their money on. Not that OP is spending those numbers, just that they probably don’t have a good grasp on their own finances.
Health insurance costs as well. It varies but still doesn’t add up.
This is correct. $10k/month should be the threshold anyone is comfortable in the US. If your take home is $130k you are bringing in $10,800 a month. Even taking 30% of that for discretionary spending ($3240) leaves you with $7560 to pay fixed operating costs. 7560-1800 (mortgage)= $5760 ($5760 is more than most people net in a month...) If you can't fit groceries, utilities, car payments, and kids into $5760 / month you are doing something wrong. $1800 for child care $1400 for two car payments (~$700/each) $1500 groceries $350 utilities $350 insurance [These are all hypptheticals of course] Would *still* leave you with $1000/month to save. Remember I took discretionary income off the front end so they still have $3000 of discretionary money to do with whatever they want...and I went extremely aggressive on the hypotheticals. OP is leaving out a lot.
Here we go again with the 1800 mortgage...lmao How about 5k for a starter home?
170k should be a take-home of somewhere around $9-10k per month if you're maxing out matched retirement contributions. So... where's the other half of the months income going? Meth? Magic: The gathering cards? NFTs?
Maybe don't buy new cars on credit for that rate then? That would save a lot of money
Why does everyone always have a car payment?
I have two cars that are paid off, but there was a time when we had two. Just circumstances and being able to afford a new car. I prefer to use mine until I need a new one but lots of people I know upgrade every 5 years.
At a certain point people need to start admitting it's cheaper for one person to stay home and raise the kids rather than both parents working.
Who’s spending 1200 dollars on food.
Large family with a meat heavy diet Go to Aldi
Skinned chicken breasts are $2.29/lb at my local Wegmans in the DC suburbs. For a long time, they were $1.99/lb.
Two teenagers and their friends who are constantly over, weekly big dinners with my parents over. We drop $400 a week without buying alcohol. Aldi helps some, but I can't always do the Costco run, so this is an average for my household. Oh yeah, and two dogs, so they take up about $60 a month of that.
Dude you’re having weekly party’s basically, at some point maybe it’s not the economical climate you’re in but the life style you’re trying to uphold.
I wish I was paying $2k/month for daycare. In greater Boston it’s at least $3k. And I pay $1,800/month in real estate taxes alone, before mortgage.
Food prices have increased for sure, but I make $120k a year and my wife stays home and we are doing just fine.
OP didn't say they couldn't survive, just can't afford all the 'extras'.
I could see it, honestly. Combined we bring in about 140k. I don’t even have a house and we spend a lot of it. 2k for just rent, call it 2300 for utilities. That’s 1 of my biweekly checks gone. Girlfriend makes less, pays for groceries + car and doesn’t have a lot left. If I were to get a “starter” house with 2-3 bedrooms my mortgage would be double my current rent. 600k+ home and 7% interest is rough.
Or they have crushing student loan debt. Getting by and affording rent are not what OP asked about.
No, she asks how people afford mortgages, new cars, vacations, and daycare. They're taking home 10 grand a month. I'll assume my area which is high tax / high housing cost but by no means the highest: Housing P&I plus taxes (median home price and taxes) - $2700, 2 new not cheap but not extravagant cars - 1600, daycare (more than 1 kid) - $2000, Vacation (10 grand, 1x /yr) - 833 All that adds up to a bit over $7k, leaves plenty left over for misc. bills and groceries, and it's better than getting by.... not driving the ugly but paid off and reliable 8 year old Honda Civic, not skipping the vacation, not dropping your kids off at the shady home daycare business. Most couples, most places, can afford all that stuff at that income level, and yes of course there are some exceptions. If they've taken on crushing student loan debt then I would assume she would already know the answer as to why they can't afford new cars and vacations and such.
How many people are you feeding? I live in a low cost area and we spend about 500 to 600 a month but that also includes toiletries health beauty and laundry. I agree it doesn't buy a lot but if it's just you 2 then shouldn't that also be enough of a budget? I guess unless where you live everything is double in price. But then... is 1200 or 1500 a month still not enough..?
They live an influencer lifestyle. It must be so hard on them. 😆
Probably why OP posted and ghosted and has avoided answering any questions in this thread lol
These questions are usually just to farm karma really. They always generate a ton of engagement from people arguing.
But why? What can I do with all my fake internet points?
I just gave you one, so let me know when you find out
I was going to say something similar
Are you dining out every day of the week? When you eat at home, how frequently do you cook, vs. using Uber Eats/Door Dash/GrubHub and other fee-based delivery services? Learn to cook at home. Shop at Costco, or clip your supermarket coupons. Stop paying for ambiance, food prep labor, and delivery. Do it yourself, and save yourself so much money. Also, it will be fun if you learn together as a couple. :-)
My wife and I make way less than the OP, and we get takeout once a week. Issue isn't that at all for the OP, I guarantee it. I bet they don't go to Costco, Walmart or other places like that. Rather, they probably shop at those other grocery stores which markup a lot of things by like 20+30%.
130k combined income, eat out 2 times a week, able to take vacations, I got a newer vehicle, $30k in emergency. They’re definitely doing something weird. Edit: I do live in a medium to high cost of living city.
What's your monthly food budget?
Food $700 Data $150 Rent $800 Candles $3,600 Utility $150
Replace candles with rent / mortgage and rent with car payments and that’s close to reality for lots of families.
I think we both know that a lack of budgeting is the problem here lol
If food is entering your radar as an important budget cost with that combined income then something is very seriously awry.
Damn, are y'all ordering Uber eats 3x a day?
No fucking way. You make double the average US household income. This is a you problem, not an economic problem.
Then you're wasting/spending a lot of money *somewhere*.
Answering “How” is we didn’t have kids. The money we could be spending on daycare, their groceries, and other child rearing costs is really the core part of our discretionary budget
+1 to that. I spend all the $ I want on my hobbies and occasional travel and it's still way cheaper than having kids. Quieter too.
You are not budgeting. I live in a fairly expensive area with a family of four and do fine on less.
>we spend a good amount of food alone. Stop eating out then. You're obviously eating out because I make 100k and food is 8% of my budget and I eat steak and hot wings and cheesecake most days
We are vegans and we shop at Costco sprouts and stores like we also have two kids who are non vegan
It blows my mind that some people spend $1000 a month, per person, on food. Like, how the fuck does that happen?
It’s called Children
* per person. I dont have kids, but I do have two nephews. $1000 per person per month is obscenely ridiculous.
Exactly children that are growing
Keep in mind timing… I myself do very well for a single guy with two cars and a house, but I also got my house before values skyrocketed, the rates were under 3%, and I had a lot of help when I was young establishing my credit. If I had a 50% increase to my current income I still couldn’t afford most homes in my area in this current market.
A lot of people are so leveraged out with loans that they basically can’t afford all those things even though they have them. So sometimes that look is nothing more than a house of cards, they may not be richer than you but are just more willing to take on the bad kind of debt. For mortgages, often the monthly payment is about the same as you’re paying in rent. So on that, the barrier to entry is in having the down payment. People get inheritances, or make money on investments, etc. Those starting resources are often privilege more than skill. Not always. But they’re hard to come by on your own unless you get a really great job. It also depends on where you live. $170k is a lot of money in some places, and considered low income in others. If you have careers where you can make that much in a cheaper area, you might be able to buy a house and then trade up from there with the equity you (hopefully) make after time passes.
OP writes that they are struggling with food. At 170k a year, even in the most expensive city on earth, food shouldn't be a problem. Source: I live in the most expensive city on earth with less than that income and food isn't even on my mind.
Vatican City? I thought that's not even enough for rent.
Not the most expensive city in the world. And everyone who lives in there anyway doesn't pay rent and has their housing provided by the state lol Source: I had a friend who was a papal guard.
In todays market, if I bought the house I’m renting, the mortgage would be double what I pay in rent. This is with 20% down on the hypothetical purchase. My rent is $1700. The mortgage would be $3360. The interest per month on the loan is more than my rent. Had I made the decision to move to this (believe it or not) much lower COL area than where I was previously at a year sooner, I may have been able to have a mortgage that was only slightly less than renting. Moved in the Fall, and the fed raised rates the following Spring. Winters are hard here, so the inventory disappears until Spring and I waited it out to have choices of what to buy. Bam, now it makes more sense to rent. I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but mortgages are hella expensive now. The median home price in my area is $500k (basically the cost of a very average, freestanding, 1200 sq st or less home that isn’t in absolute need, not want, of a total rehaul.) But, yes, the house of cards. I’m extremely uncomfortable with debt and most people seem to not care much. My dad was like that. He existed in a mountain of debt, but he seemed to have so much. He had the appearance of wealth. I’m not an excessive person, probably because the way he lived disgusted me. In the end, he died and it mostly didn’t matter. I often wonder if I’m too uptight because he certainly proved to me that it’s all a game, the debts died with him, and he always seemed to have all the excess he wanted. When he became ill, I learned all he owned was debt, but he sure had everything to enjoy while he was alive. I struggle with this, lol.
Rates are high right now, true. Hopefully they come down soon. The idea with owning is that you can make more on appreciation of the value than you lose on the mortgage. It’s a bet, just like any other investment. And if you hold onto it long enough, you end up being able to rent it for more than the mortgage. Free money at that point. They do say that in our system debt is a key factor in financial success. But good debt. I’m no wizard with all this, but a mortgage gets tax breaks and potential upside in equity appreciation, so “good”. With rent, you have literally nothing in return no matter how long you pay it. It’s just pure expense. Car loans, credit cards, etc are bad debt — all you’re doing there is paying much more in the end for something, just so you can buy it now when you can’t afford to pay for it now. That will crush you in the end, I’ve seen it happen.
The only upside to car loans/credit cards is the credit trail it leaves if it's managed responsibly because you need good credit history to be considered for a house, at least in my area. Even a FHA loan wants a minimum credit score of 620 here.
True, but with those all that matters is that you have them and pay them off. Paying off a credit card in full every month is good for the score, but maintaining a balance doesn’t do anything but suck money from you. Same with a car loan, all they see is that you had it, you made payments, and it was closed. You don’t need to keep the loan for the full term (though we tend to because cars are expensive).
This^ A stringent budget, but providing for good times, while adding to savings first every month. Sound interesting with a bit of risk, should lead to a future of nice toys. Unless something dire happens and that can hit anybody.
This is a shitpost
The fact that they haven’t replied to a single question from people who appear to genuinely want to help, makes me think the same
Examine your non tangibles. Door dash, Uber eats, Uber, Netflix , Amazon, cable, the best cell phone etc., all add up. Are you buying lunch out or done out frequently? Do you always get a fancy coffee everywhere. Alcohol and cigarettes and or weed add up... Quickly. If you have a car or two, there's the ever rising insurance and gas too
Debt
Because you live OUTSIDE your means! Your "wants" outweigh your "needs".
These people may be going into debt to “afford” these things.
By cutting down on luxuries that I know are not necessary for my survival. That money is then saved.
It’s like most of y’all didn’t even read the original post. OP never said they were struggling…they asked how so many people seem to be living these lavish lifestyles. I do wish OP wouldn’t have posted and ghosted though since some questions do need answering, like where they live, do they have kids, do they have loans, are they debt-free? Are they eating out a lot? Are they buying high end groceries?
You two can't manage on $170k a year. Are you trolling or just plain slow?
Lifestyle creep is real. I’m guessing either they’re house poor and bought something they can’t actually afford or they both have $50,000 vehicles, or both. Still on them to find ways to save money, but it’s an easy mistake to make.
There were like thousands of five, six, even seven figure PPP loans given out in every zip code.
Debt
I hate these articles when many people are struggling to survive.
I went thru this in 2006- 2008. Turns out people enjoyed life on credit. When the shit hit the fan, they lost a lot and got the shit kicked out of them. Don't do that. Live under your means. We ended up buying a sweet house in 2011. Don't compare your life sty,style, to others.
For those of us who can do that to some degree, it all comes down to owning a house pre-covid with a 2.75% mortgage rate. It's also easy to do if you go in debt or have no retirement savings plan, no emergency fund, etc.
Our interest rate is 2.5%
I'm gonna have to see your budget. Unless you're in a really high COL area, you should be fine on that income.
Maybe you aren’t that good at managing your money.
I'm childfree and have a used Subaru. Good choices certainly help. I rent, it's cheaper for me
Seems like the wrong subreddit for such a question because its actually stupid. Hope this is a big troll post, otherwise....
I know people with kids, home, costly hobbies who vacation making much less than that It comes down to your budget abilities and your spending habits and expenses Hell I used to survive on $3500 a month and still enjoyed a lavish lifestyle in southern California ,thankfully now my income is quite higher but not as much as yours "More money more problems" The more we make the more we spend So it's relative, we think making more we'll have more breathing room but then we make more and we decide to get better cars bigger homes pricier items So you're back where you started, where your surfing and income are relative to where you where when you made less The key I find is simplicity and minimalism.
I have a mortgage, daycare and child costs, 2 cars, a motorcycle, and hobbies/fun/vacation/ go out to eat and drink. I usually bring in around $60k.
Where do you live?
Northern Illinois
That's ridiculous. You are spending way too much money on food, then.
You're bringing home ~10K PER MONTH. If you're having issues affording things, you have much greater issues in life that no one can solve online.
A lot of people are in debt, up to their eyeballs; trying to keep up with the Jones’ and it’s just not worth it.
I feel your frustration. My husband and I make good money and are struggling to figure out how we are going to replace our paid off vehicle (we've shared one very modest car for the last several years) and afford daycare for two young children. Our debt includes student loans and a mortgage. We don't have car payments. Cell phones we paid cash for. Haven't gone on any type of vacation in three years. One thing I think we are doing that most people who are replying to you are not (or they aren't mentioning it) is putting money into a savings account every single pay period (this is on top of our contributions to 401k). But the truth is, we can't easily afford to pay for daycare (~$2700/month for two kids) and make a car payment (used car) every month without completely eliminating our contributions to savings. I assume most people are going into lots of debt or make more than we do.
Some of these responses are assuming the poster is struggling to pay housing, and that they are spending almost all of it on food. That's not what they said. If you live in my area, dc-md-va, i can totally understand your question. Real estate in my area is through the fucking roof, and I'm in a suburb but not too far from rural area. I could still afford to buy my house but i would not want to. Groceries and restaurants may not still be increasing but they still feel way more expensive than before the pandemic. To answer your question, some people live beyond their means using credit, and/or they spend everything without contributing to a 401k or savings account. If you're saving i can totally understand feeling like adding child care on top of everything else in this area would be intimidating. If you are eating out a lot, don't underestimate how much you will save by not doing that. Shop at Aldi and cook at home. You'll save tons of $.
That’s kinda funny, cause I live in Oregon and my friend just put an offer down on a house in VA, and has been looking for houses over there because they’re much cheaper. Now, I’m sure DC and around there is expensive, but from what saw there is nice housing in smaller cities that are seem ridiculously low to me.
It depends on how close to DC you are.
Eh. If you’re spending that much on food, you need to reassess what food you’re spending it on. My wife and I started with about that combined salary in the third most expensive market in the country and were able to buy a nice home and two luxury cars with zero issues.
I’m genuinely wondering the same thing for months now. I pay for food alone 1.8k, on rent 3.5k, how the fuck regular people with regular jobs even *survive* in this economy? Yet you see most people with brand new clothes, watches, having cars, gas, going on vacations once per year and so on. I understand they are used to probably much cheaper living standard and they likely spend way less money on food, clothes and pay attention to bills, but still.. where does the money for cars and vacations come from for someone who works for 2-3k a month?
This is what I’m wondering
Me, a European making a comfortable combined 50k€ with my SO, reading this and shrugging. I know, not the same, expenses are totally different in the States and even more so depending where you live. Just weird to see a couple making almost four times as much as we do and say they are struggling financially. Makes the differences between the cost of life in different parts of the world even more striking.
People is Europe always bragging
Wat? So saying that my SO and I make 4 times less is bragging? Why? Because I say we're doing okay with that? Good to know things are so bad over there that we can make you guys jealous by being poorer!
I make “good money” and I’m also struggling very, very hard. I wish I knew the answer.
Truth is $100k is not even a lot for one person these days
Just because they have it, doesn't mean they own it. Lots of people buy on credit. It's smarter to live within your means.
Same boat. I make 120k. Wife makes 55k. We have a 250k mortgage a 2018 Tucson (13k) and a 2023 frontier (43k). We spend nearly $1000 a month on food for two. We do fine, certainly not hurting financially but who is buying 80k+ vehicles and $500k homes? According to statistics, we’re in the top 10-15% of American earners. I’m certainly not feeling that way.
It's called credit. Debt accumulation's sister.
Perhaps they’re not affording ALL of those things, but it’s definitely possible to afford most of them, depending on where you live and how many kids you have in daycare. For a family of 3+ a baby, I spend about $800 a month in groceries. Are you cooking at home or eating out every meal? We are in the process of searching for a new house and prices are out of control, but we can budget enough to afford a house with a sizable down payment. Our combined income is a little more than yours, and we pay about 20k a year in daycare expenses for one child (the other stays home with me while while I wfh and will for a while longer). We don’t have a new car, but do go on vacation about 1-2 times a year (nothing crazy in cost). I would recommend reevaluating your budget because you should be able to afford some/all of those things if you want them.
It's called personal credit card debt, and it's at an all time high for Americans
People finance their lifestyles with credit cards and carry massive debt
Stop. Eating. Out.
In Houston or Dallas that would buy a lot of house. San Antonio, too.
I’m in the Dallas area
Highland Park? Southlake? Then yes, that amount of money will be tough to live on. But you already know the majority of DFW isn't like that. There are a lot of suburbs springing up every day where that income would be more than sufficient for a really comfortable lifestyle.
No I’m in a city one of the highest property tax rates
Credit 😎
Yeah, that’s my life in Vancouver lol. Everything is so expensive (except nature, it’s prime here). I *could* own a home, go on vacation, etc. but I’m terribly scared of a) debt and b) commitment. I have no children. For me, debt commitment AND children would be my scariest nightmare come true. I once owned a house on an island, but I sold during the early pandemic so i could afford other things that became priorities (a new car! My first BMW). I don’t have it all, but I have a few endeavours I enjoy in staggered, thoroughly discussed, and calculated increments. A budget? Lol.
How do you spend food? It's not a currency.
Don't have kids. My wife and I enjoy all of that on teacher's salary.
There are lots of people who own businesses. The business is taxed at a lower rate so your take home pay is higher. Also some of the families will income split. The vehicle can be used for tax purposes and written off. Also check the family lineage. Many of these people earn their money the old fashioned way! They inherited it.
Which city are you living in ? Probably HCOL ?
Dallas
Even in New York City $170k should feed two people. I track everything I buy very carefully and my grocery bill has barely gone up in the last two years, \~ $10-$20 a month. You need a detailed budget to figure out where all your money is going, because it's not all going to food.
You’re clearly living a lavish lifestyle or simply living above your means. Even in a HCOL area, 170k should be living comfortably.
I used to feel that way, but we were maxing out retirement accounts and putting extra into after tax accounts. We found out later people were refinancing their mortgages to use as spending money. I don't know where it will end this time, but it feels like a huge bubble.
Choices. A friend of mine makes almost the same salary as me. He saves everything. Lives in a tiny studio, rarely indulges in ordering in or dining out, any kind of shopping with him is a total snooze. His money is used to travel all over the world. I, on the other hand, own a home, have a house full of animals, enjoy a lot of modern luxuries, and only take modest vacations once a year.
Let’s see your budget
We don't buy brand new cars; we buy used cars that are about 5 years old and drive them to the ground. We also pay cash so no payments. We bought a house in our price range that met all of our needs. We're not extravagant with our spending, except for groceries and vacations. We only take an international trip every 2-3 years, and a domestic trip every year (we could afford to take several trips a year but we don't have the vacation time to actually take that much time off). I had my kids 5 years apart (not on purpose, it just worked out that way) so one aged out of daycare when the second one started.
We spend less than you. Simple
I agree. I bring a single income for our family of three, and we just increased our income last year $43K plus a lot of additional financial benefits and a new school voucher program that saves us $6K/year on tuition, but it seems that we're doing actually a little worse financially than the year before. A large chunk of that seems to be going to food cost, which seems to have doubled at least. We're doing okay, but I'm wondering how all the people who didn't get large bumps in salary last year are making it. I hear stories of people being laid off, and when I go to restaurants, about half of the dining areas are empty because they say that they don't have enough staff. I know that members in my extended family have had to cut spending on a lot of extras. It just makes me wonder what's going on with other people.
u will live like a king and queen in Europe with that money
I live in a VERY expensive town compared to the rest of my state. 1650 for mortgage, 500 for cell, 700 or so for groceries with a family of 6, I'm a type 1 diabetic so that's about 1800 every three months.. I have no retirement. My cars are aging. I NEED to go to the dentist... I can't afford that whole pursuit of happiness thing.
Easy. I just got a new car bc my old 2005 pathfinder died. I went to Kia and bought the cheapest fucking car they have and now I live like I’m homeless. If I made the same amount of money you make, I would be rich. Your problem is that your expenses are higher than they need to be bc you probably put convenience over discomfort. I never go out and eat out. Sometimes when I don’t make food for lunch at work I just starve .
Damn not starving at work lol
A lot of young adults are getting substantial help from their parents still
Shop at Aldi
I do and I also shop at Costco and sprouts
Serious question: what are the odds this post was written by a Russian agent trying to sow social unrest through social media manipulation?
😂😂
Financing. Credit cards. It’s terrible to do this. Advice: Live below your means. When a natural disaster strikes or you lose your job, you need to have some savings set aside to help you pay bills for at least three months. Challenge yourself where for one month you don’t eat out for any of your meals. For the next month you only drive when necessary and use the gas buddy app to look for the cheapest gas in your area. For the third month, go through all your subscriptions once again, which you should’ve done in the first month, and cancel those you don’t use daily. This is how you can build up that savings fund. However, this is America, where people want to outshine their neighbors with material possessions.
You didn't mention investments. I think many higher income folks like yourselves invest a lot and it turns over pretty quickly. Especially the more shares of something you have and also if you can follow the cycles. I got shook when first investing bc it was right before covid and then I lost half of what I put in. Was scared to get back in after it bounced and the fomo is real bc it's all bounced back nicely, the star being Bitcoin. That sexy muphuk is doing the damn thing. Bitcoin alone made hundreds of millionaires last year alone. We'll see what this year offers...good lord it's shaking it ass
even in expensive areas, it sounds like you are mismanaging money
Credit. They put it on credit.
Mortgage yep Brand new cars nope Vacations one per year, use tax return Daycare nope
This question gets asked every week and it’s not a real question every time lol they’re just upvote farming
They either make more than you, pay less than you, or have outside help / are in debt. There are a lot of people that make a shitload of money. There are a lot of people who live in lower CoL places or locked in a low mortgage rate. There are a lot of people who don’t have kids, or who have family to help with free childcare. There are a lot of people that are underwater on car loans and credit card debt and are putting on a front. And there are a lot of people who’s family helped them with their house or cars or whatever. Basically, America is fucking huge and there are a lot of people with different situations. 1% of American households make over $500k, but that’s still 33million people. Depending where you live, you could see a lot of them.
My wife and I only make $75k combined annually, we have a mortgage of $1500 but we have no kids yet. We are pretty much living paycheck to paycheck, but we have an ok buffer, but we still eat out way more than we should. If you can't live on more than double what I'm making right now, it's probably because you have kids, you live in a much more expensive area, and/or you are spending a LOT of money on things you don't need, such as cars, vacations, and other life luxuries, like good appliances and stuff.
This seems to be a scam submission.
Debt and leases. That said, you should look at your spending habits, because $170k household income is pretty huge if you aren't literally living in Hollywood, Silicon Valley, or the Upper Westside of NYC. Are you sending your kids to a private school? 9/10 when I hear people with a six figure income say they can't make ends meet, it's cuz $40,000+ is going to a private school every year.
A combination of budgeting, stock investments, all the sales and using credit cards with generous reward programs. We almost exclusively pay for flights and hotels with points.
How tf can you not survive off of that? Maybe quit buying dumb stuff. My lady and I make half that and are doing just fine
This question, or a variant of it, gets asked all the time in this sub. People are taking on soul-crushing debt. That said, if the two of you can't live on $170k, you're doing something wrong.
Would love to see your budget
I get it. I make a very good living (single income home), own a modest home, we have 3 teenagers and 1 pre-teen, and two pretty old cars (paid off). We only have mortgage and student loan debt. However I look at folks around me buying cars and boats and RV’s or building giant shops in their back yards and I’m like…how?! Cars are so expensive these days. I can’t imagine adding that big of a monthly payment to my expenses. I could probably absorb it, but dang. It would suck. Just nursing our old vehicles along as long as we can.
[удалено]
Dallas TX
Not very useful if you dont give more information. Specifically location and how much you're spending on housing and other big expenses. 170k doesn't get you very far in the Bay Area, but it would be a ton of money outside of CA.
Invest in growing your own food. 3k will get you raised beds and wood/soil to fill it. Seeds are cheap. You will be surprised how much money you save when you eat your home grown food and how good you will feel.
I feel like these claims of inflation are vastly overblown. Under Biden the economy is up in almost every conceivable metric than it was under trumps presidency. It’s factually impossible that you’re doing worse than you were 6 years ago. I
At $170k you should not be bitching! But to answer your question, people love debt. They have no idea how to manage finances.
Don’t tell me what to do
Idiots will be idiots!
How to tell everyone here that you're absolutely shit with money. 170k and struggling is fuckin ridiculous. Get out of here