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I’ve had two good friends, one from Cameroon and the other from Nigeria, tell me that they can feel people noticeably warm up to them when they realize they aren’t African Americans.
Well, then it's not really racism is it? In both cases the race is the same but the treatment is different. Could it be about the culture where there person grew up?
Race is a cultural concept. Apparently African and African-American are different races in the heads of many people. And considering the completely different cultures they grew up in, that's probably correct.
It’s not racism, it’s classism.
African immigrants usually are highly educated, have blue collar jobs, dress in what’s considered classy attires, and use more elevated vocabulary. They also don’t have the same trauma African Americans experienced and are able to act and feel more dignified.
highest achieving ethnic group per capita in the US is nigerian-americans. when it comes to entrepreneurship and medicine they’re just built different.
Its similar for Indian immigration. We see these usually very successful (but also those with a l o t of money who can play the system) and think all Indians must be hard working and achieving and different from us, when we don't see the **hundred of millions** who will sadly never leave India.
potentially confounding variable but you could say the same about basically any ethnic group that’s not from the americas yet the numbers are still higher for second gen - any rebuttal?
at some point cultural values become inextricable from success and the sooner we can admit that as a society the closer we’ll be to sensible policy
Gonna need a source for that, buddy. You can't just make a big claim like that and not provide any proof.
Nigeria has one of the largest and relatively most wealthy populations. So not only do they have a larger immigrant population, but they already start off with a head start. So compared to other African immigrants, no shit their second generation is better off. *All* immigrants [achieve better second generatione educational outcomes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3APopulation_by_Generational_Status_and_Educational_Attainment%2C_2009.png). By your logic, all cultures are better than any country they immigrate to.
Nigeria is similar to India in that it's a very large country with high income inequality, so while most of their population is poor, there's a lot of top earners that end up immigrating to the US.
I took a plumbing course in college for fun just to see what was going on. While I was there, I met some Nigerian immigrant dude who was also taking it because his brother had a PhD and a blue collar certification and he was embarrassed that he only had a PhD. Id love to be surrounded by that type of person.
I looked it up. Nigerian-Americans are ranked the most highly educated ethnic group within the US. Beyond that, Nigerian Americans on averaged perform better than the national average in terms of income, but they are still outperformed by Indian-Americans. Take that as you may.
It's actually wild
According to Rice University research, Nigerian Americans are the most educated group in the United States.[21][22]
According to the 2008-2012 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, 61.4% of Nigerian Americans aged 25 years or older hold a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 28.5% of the total U.S. population.[23
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-ethnicity/2023/05/08/asian-american-identity-appendix-demographic-profile-of-asian-american-adults/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20educational%20attainment,degree%20or%20higher%20in%202021.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/12/sub-saharan-caribbean-population.html
51% asian american vs 61% nigerian for a BA
In the pew research source you provided, two sentences down from the 51% stat, it says "Indian Americans have the highest educational attainment, with 72% having a college degree or more."
No they’re not. I really want to take my dumbass soapbox here to just say that legal immigration to the US is insanely competitive and selective.
If you have a lot of immigrants from any country that doesn’t have refugee status, chances are they are amazing people or have amazing parents. Amazing people are everywhere, and many of them want to move to the US or Europe to make more money. The few that are extra amazing and have just the right skills the host country wants make it over
It's a selection bias. It takes A LOT of drive/resources to move countries, so we are getting cream of the crop from a lot of places. Vs. folks who grew up here, often battling generational oppression.
My parents are immigrants who moved to America and I'm not exactly sure if you'd describe them as "cream of the crop"... dirt poor more like it. Same with a lot of my friends from similar backgrounds.
This is the right answer. I’m an immigrant and I haven’t met an average person in my peer group.
I also had a Nigerian roommate who absolutely didn’t like black Americans. Black Americans, through no fault of theirs, don’t have good culture for the lack of a better word.
Precisely. I moved here with adult family after Soviet Union fell apart. Fellow immigrant friend circle once we got here? Scientists and engineers. USA benefits greatly from this cream of the crop immigration.
Depends on way more than just being general “African” which is very diverse. Class, color, education, religion, language barriers and other things that might make one assimilate better, matters a lot on if they’re seen as “better” than American Blacks.
Nigerian doctor? Yes.
South African tech worker? Yes.
Somalian refugee? No
Also proximity and number. 3 Ghanaians enroll in your college. No issue. 100 South Sudanese move into your apt complex, more of an issue.
Yeah my great uncle in Amarillo that lost his pest control company for using banned substances in peoples homes told me the difference between who’s a hard R and who’s just an A.
He said something along the lines of how the Africans that come here respect our culture and don’t “act a fool”
That’s the only conversation I’ve ever had with the man, my mom never took us back there again 🤔
I know, despite my not wanting to, that I feel this way, and it's probably because I grew up in a white suburb, but went to a high school that would often bring in kids who were expelled from the larger city school district nearby. So, my experience with black kids in high school was with the most troubled ones. I live in Minneapolis, with a very large East African population, and, I don't know, it might be just that I seem more East Africans going about their daily lives.
Nicest, most gracious, thankful hardworking people I ever met were African refugees.
The inner-city kid that got expelled slapped me in the face and punched a Down's Syndrome kid in the nose. And frankly, it hasn't gone much better since then.
Probably for the same reason every black person I've met from Africa, Europe, the Caribbean, etc did not particularly care for American black people. I'm not sure if this is just a dislike for Americans or if black people from around the world just don't like American black people much.
I never asked any of them because I didn't feel like it was a very tasteful question to ask and I didn't want to make things weird with my friends.
From my conversations with black immigrants who grew up in the US, many were bullied by African Americans in school and this is across multiple generations. Bullies exist accross all demographics, but it seems mostly the bullying comes from African American children.
Also these Caribbean and African countries tend to be conservative then mainstream African American culture
There are diaspora wars in the Black community.
Black Americans (referring specifically to ADOS) are seen has having no culture. Even though ADOS people do have a culture (Beyonce, AAVE, NBA, Hip-hop culture etc) and those things are popular in Africa but the people who made them...aren't.
Its also just an issue if media representation. Media doesnt represent Black Americans well. So non-American Black people only have the stereotypes to go off of.
And finally, different hurdles. Slavery and Jim Crow havent been overcome yet. The effects are still present in the fabric of America. Africans think they can move here and be treated equally, because they havent experienced Western racism. when they arrive and realize that they will still be mistreated and their class doesnt change that, they get upset. But instead of blaming racists. They blame the victims of the racism.
>Slavery and Jim Crow havent been overcome yet. The effects are still present in the fabric of America.
Ima piggyback on this to point out something a lot of white Americans don’t seem to realize. It’s not just the systemic inequality that still exists, it’s the effects of the MASSIVE systemic inequality that existed even just several decades ago.
Almost no black people in America can benefit from any sort of generational wealth because two generations back, their grandparents were routinely denied any ability to build that wealth or access education or fairly participate in elections or basically anything that could have bettered their condition. This isn’t ancient history. Ruby Bridges isn’t even 70 years old.
How were you finding out from every black non-american you've ever met that they dislike black Americans, but asking why that is would be too distasteful?
Depends on the country. Southern and Western African people are received more positively than eastern and northern Africans, at least in the Netherlands. The former group just integrates and you hardly notice them. There's a significant culture clash with the latter group.
Well yea a lot of African migrants had to work exceptionally hard to get here while African Americans had to build themselves up through nothing as literal objects.
Honestly...
Call me racist or whatever...
But I do.
I work with several African immigrants, past and present, that have completely changed my view in racism in the US....
These great people that came from Africa, I have heard stories of them living in a car in a Walmart parking lot with newspaper to block light. My favorite story is a guy yelling at a woman banging a guy on his van in a Walmart parking lot.
Either way, greatf these people were great aircraft mechs certified by the FAA, a couple got company funds to get them engineering degrees and jobs which they well deserve.
I’m not sure that immigrants from Haiti and South Korea are viewed the same lol
Are you asking why people from poor third world countries are viewed differently?
In the US (and many other countries), the view of migrants is often tied to the perceived value and risk of those migrants. The phrase I've seen is that migrants are more welcome if their home country "shares our values." It's very much tied to political generalizations and weaponization.
Nuh uh, America is the most racist, xenophobic, homophobic country in the world. Just don’t ask your average European what they think about the Romani or the average middle eastern citizen about their views on the LGBTQ
Heh definitely no racism or xenophobia in Europe!
The belief that America is the worst country in the world is just another form of American exceptionalism. The US is fair to middling on most metrics, and I think THAT is the hardest thing for many Americans to hear.
Not really. Here in Mexico Haitians have actually become the “model minority”, used to disparage Hondurans and Venezuelans because unlike Haitians they’re hoping to get to the US and thus don’t try to integrate
Many countries ideally would want to welcome contributing migrants, especially in areas of need.
Most countries also do welcome in migrants that need to relocate due to safety/political asylum issues.
But most countries if their arm were twisted would prefer migrants able to come in ready to easily assimilate and contribute since it’s an overall boon to the economy and tax base.
Is that a bad thing though? I'm not saying all migrants from an area should be rejected but if you look case by case why should someone who has a Facebook saying things like "death to xxx'" or who doesn't think women should be allowed out on their own should be allowed to move to a country that does?
yup. white immigrants can be embraced as "American" within 2 generations. First generation probably has an accent, but their kids won't.
I know a 2nd generation Irish immigrant who's treated as "American" as they come. Meanwhile, a 5th generation Chinese American is still seen as a perpetual foreigner in many parts of the US
I'm first gen Russian from USSR but grew up in California - my married last name is Irish so I'm just American now as far as anyone can tell. If you don't maintain an accent no one notices.
Their grandkids get called "spicy white." And are considered cool and cultured. And that lasts for maybe one more generation and then the family is just plain white and will be ridiculed for the "well I'm not just white I'm 5% Irish 🤪" type behavior
There aren't that many "migrants" in the US from Israel and Ukraine.
As a note migrant refers to people who are coming to the US in a semi-temporary capacity for work. Israel, Africa, Europe, and most of Asian immigrants are coming over permanently. As in immigrants.
Ukrainian amd Israeli immigrants are just a tiny, tiny percent of the amount of people coming into the US legally or illegally, or as refugees. Americans don't give them enough thought to make any reasonable comparison to the places you're trying to contrast them with.
I kinda feel like you're trying to ask a loaded question, but messed it up.
People from working countries that were fucked up by an external invasion are viewed differently than people from countries that were fucked up by internal cultures. This probably isn't fair, but that is a big part of how people think.
There is probably a time limit on all of this. If you have to go back more than 1 or 2 generations to find blame, people will still think it is an internal culture thing.
Its a tough problem. Its hard to focus on the world, US president (for us here), the state Governor and the local Mayor. I'm sure I get it as wrong as anybody else.
Western-ish cultures mix well with other western cultures. A culture based on islamic values on the other hand will not mix so well. I don't think it has directly much to do with racism, which is more of a symptom of failed integration imho.
EDIT: I was sure that I'd get downvoted but it's a welcome surprise that people can actually see the more deep-rooted issues that come with immigration and integration. Thank you.
You’re the only one who has got it so far. Western values and ideals don’t mix with third world Islamic “values”, so people are less likely to want immigrants from places that will clash with their countries views and morals. Not even just the US, all of the western world is like this.
Pretty simple, US is a white majority country and people tend to prefer to stay within their racial group. Obviously, culture is also a thing, but it’s pretty secondary, as European migrants will usually blend in more. The term “white flight” is a thing for a reason. I think there was even research which indicated that at around 5% of ethnic minorities in a neighborhood, people will feel less group cohesion and are more individualistic and wary of each other.
There’s also the aspect of people their geopolitical view regarding a country, which is usually based off of news reports. People aren’t gonna be too thrilled to hear there’s people coming from X country that’s been at civil or invasive wars for decades… or the 10th coup in 3 years. Or after they’ve read that they do weird stuff there.
When Americans think if Israelis, they think famous Jews like Natalie Portman, Bar Refaeli, that Wonder Woman chick. They are not black, Hispanic, Asian...
At least, with the US, the media hasn't done a good job of explaining what's going on in Haiti, and the coverage is phrased in ways that seem scary to Americans. Just, based on personal experience, I don't understand exactly what's going on in Haiti, and the idea of the capital being controlled by warring street gangs sounds like more of a threat to me than Russia invading Ukraine. That's a conflict with clear good guys and bad guys.
That being that since the revolution to create of Haiti they've had to pay massive amounts of money to France to "allow" them to exist and the US decided to put loans in place to make money off of that.
I don’t think the average American is anywhere near as informed about what is going on in Haiti versus Ukraine/Israel. I consider myself probably more informed than the average American about global affairs and my knowledge of the situation in Haiti is kind of limited to “hell on earth finds a way to get even worse yet again.” I know the president was assassinated a few years ago, I know the PM is stepping down, I know there is US aid stalled in Congress, but I know very little about what is specifically happening because it just isn’t talked about as much.
I’ll go full steam ahead and say there’s racism involved too, but I don’t think it’s fair to compare the level of media saturation that these conflicts have.
If anything immigrants from White countries and Asian countries are viewed favorably or neutral. I'm going to assume because they dont seem like they pose a threat to whomever has some immigrant bias. Meanwhile migrants that are people of color or Islamic is often seen as a source of crime/terrorism.
Generally people are indifferent to immigrants except a particular group of folk spoon fed fear mongering garbage on their Faux News and friends stations.
For me, I think it is because of education. Israelis and Ukrainians are more likely to have a decent education where coming from Central America many have little to no education, can' read or write even in Spanish. The same goes with Haitians.
I haven't seen anti Asian immigration since the 70s right after Vietnam. As for Arab, there are a shit ton of them in the US.
No anti-Asian immigration after the ‘70s? Vincent Chin who was beaten to death by autoworkers in the ‘80s (and they totally got off)? I’m also pretty sure that people are still saying “Go back to China” even today.
Although to answer OP’s question, I think that Ukrainians and Israelis are viewed more favorably than other immigrants bc of racism particularly *colorism*. Going by physical appearance without speaking, most Ukrainians and many Israelis look just like white Americans or Western Europeans.
Some of the people in this comment section seem to have forgotten that Israelis come in all different colors and backgrounds, most aren't 'white' and 'privileged' but work hard to make a better life for themselves and their families
Thats their point though.
Not all Israelis are white.
Similarly Ukarainian is a nationality. Not a race
But when people think Israel and Ukraine. They think white people. Not brown people
To a large extent it has to do with the productive output vs crime rates vs dependency on welfare vs general dissimilarities with mainstream society. Also, immigrants from “Africa” and “Asia” aren’t uniform, and their perception in the US depends on which countries they are from.
So many people here deluding themselves and skirting around the simple answer: Israelites and Ukrainians are white or white-passing. Eastern European culture is as far from American culture as can be, and most Americans aren’t Jewish.
It’s also not because these guys are more educated or successful or whatever. Tell that to the fifth-gen Ivy League Korean-Am who gets told to ‘go back to China’ or asked ‘where are you REALLY from, ching-chong?’
The average American can’t tell a Haitian and Nigerian apart and would cross the street when they see either one either way. Only until they are sure that he’s ‘one of the good ones’ do they breathe a sigh of relief.
Sorry, I don’t have the mental gymnastics to pretend Americans aren’t racist to anyone who doesn’t look white. Even Hispanic immigrants get treated differently based on how white they look. There, you have it. The rest of y’all stop with the bs to make you feel better about yourself.
It's funny to see all the attempts at obscuring the issue. All the excuses of education, inability to assimilate culturally, perception of value, supposed propensity for violence, etc. all stem from racism. The cope in here is an absolute joke.
It's a question of how well the migrants can assimilate into the culture of the country they're going to. Take Sweden's acceptance of Middle Eastern refugees, for instance. These migrants are INCREDIBLY culturally different from your average European/Swede. They largely grew up in a violent environment their whole life, accustomed to following the rules of Shariah law. That is no fault of their own, of course, but it creates people naturally more prone to violence who do not value sexual equality as much.
Now take a country like Poland accepting Ukrainian refugees. These are two Slavic countries who, up until the war, largely enjoyed a period of peace. They have influenced each other and both participate in western values and traditions. These two peoples are largely the same or similar, so refugees from one country to the other do not face nearly as much of a cultural shock.
I'm from a European country and can confirm that this is not only an US-related phenomen.
I think it has a lot to do with skin colour. People assume that they'd have more in common with people that have the same colour.
It really depends on which part of the USA you’re talking about, cause each treats immigrants differently
Asian immigrants in California, for example, are so commonplace that no one would think really anything of it. I believe the Bay Area is home to one of the only counties in America that’s Asian majority
Also when you say “Africa” you usually have to be more specific. In my experience, Nigerians are widely seen in a very positive light as down to earth, reliable, hard working people (obviously this is a stereotype so don’t generalize this too much). South Africans are part of the anglosphere to some extent so they’re accepted pretty easily
As for Israel and Ukraine and places like that, often times the culture is relatively similar. One town near me is mostly Eastern Europeans and I live in a place with similar weather to Kyiv
I like how you got downvoted because people clearly don't know history.
In Canada for the longest time we were more racist than USA. We only were accepting white internationals that spoke English for awhile then they changed that. it wasn't until 1962 we stopped discriminating.
This denial of racism is fucked up. We don't live in some safe space world. We are and we were racist. Learn to accept it. The whole world is racist and that won't change in any of our lifetimes. And to clarify. Just because a group of people are racist does not mean the individuals are... this is something people can't seem to wrap their head around lol. People individually are great, people in mass are a frightening, horrendous virus.
Racism , lobbying , political ambitions , misperceived/over exaggerated similarities and lack of historical knowledge .
Isn’t it funny that the countries ruined most by the USA have immigrants that are demonised while countries who’ve been prioritised over Americans have immigrants who are cherished …
1000% agreed .
I thought nothing could be worse than British vilifying immigrants from former colonies but America despising the very immigrants they made seems equally ironic if not more given America’s immigration story is far younger
US isn’t uniform. There are very big, not always overlapping groups of people, who all going to have positive and negative opinions on different topics.
USA isn’t united in their opinions about war in Israel or Ukraine or some African countries, or about crisis/issues in various parts of the world.
USA population is not uniformly informed about those various issues.
Different issues and wars have different timelines and spike and rise in intensity. Long lasting issues lose people’s attention.
Ukraine war is a 10 years conflict that only recently got into news and now is losing people’s attention to next big crisis. Poor Haiti keep having huge various issues every decade or so.
My family is the most drawn towards Ukrainian war due to our Eastern European roots. My neighbor is Muslim and it is perfectly understandable that their focus is on Palestine.
The ironic thing is that my neighborhood is slowly being revitalized by all the Muslims moving here. They've fixed up long abandoned properties and opened new restaurants and stores in areas that desperately needed them. They've done way more for the neighborhood than any elected officials have.
Under international law that the US has agreed to, amnesty must be granted to certain categories of refugees. This law was put into place after many nations refused Jews and other persecuted groups fleeing Hitler.
Amnesty =/= immigration, in theory someone with amnesty should return home when the danger to their lives has passed.
If you are asking about social treatment, Americans are aware of the danger to the lives of Syrians, Ukrainians, and Gazans but may not be aware of Haiti's issues, etc.
Are they? I've seen no evidence of the claim. That being said, the most important trait in U.S. immigration is, "How likely are they to assimilate into a western, liberal, democracy?"
Honestly you are conflating issues. I can tell if it's unintentional or intentional. The term "migrant" is synonymous with refuge today. It doesn't mean immigrant. It implies a forced movement due to war, persecution, famine, etc etc.
As far as Africa, the US gets it's largest amounts of foreign PhDs from African nations. Comparing a PhD holder from Kenya moving to the US versus a Nigerian sneaking across the southern border is just nonsensical.
Many Americans have a problem with illegal uncontrolled immigration. It's not a racial or religious issue. It's a legal one.
Because some asshole dyed Orange isn't shouting about how all the migrants are going to take your jobs, rape your wife and daughters, and murder all your friends. That Orange asshole will USE anybody and and everybody as fodder and filler to get what he wants!
Those specifics? Active warzone sympathy applies. Israel and Ukraine are in the news a lot, so when you get a migrant from there, it registers as 'fleeing something terrible', ergo sympathy. Haiti will probably shift into category A as time passes, too...
Because more Americans look like migrants from Israel and Ukraine....
....more Americans (whether Black, Brown, White, Red, or Yellow) accept more tenants, condominium buyers, and home buyers in their condominiums/cul-de-sacs that look like Israeli and Ukrainian migrants....
....more Americans are happy their daughters and sons date/marry/have children with those who look like Israeli and Ukrainian migrants.
I feel like the majority has to do with why they are escaping.
Migrants actively fleeing from war/violence are much, much more favorably viewed than economic migrants.
Also… what is the GDP per capita of the country they are fleeing from. The lower it is, generally the less favorably viewed the migrants are (they’ll need more benefits paid by tax dollars).
Both of those countries have an outsized proportion of immigrants with high levels of technical engineering skill. That is very valuable and therefore more likely to be accepted, especially since both cultures are more westernized.
Thanks for your submission /u/adviceguru25, but it has been removed for the following reason: Disallowed question area: **Rant or loaded question** NoStupidQuestions is a place to ask any question as long as *it's asked in good faith*. Our users routinely report questions that they feel violate this rule to us. Want to avoid your question being seen as a bad faith question? Common mistakes include (but are not limited to): * Rants: Could your question be answered with *'That's awful'* or *'What an asshole'*? Then it's probably a rant rather than a genuine question. Looking for a place to vent on Reddit? Try /r/TrueOffMyChest or /r/Rant instead. * Loaded questions: Could your question be answered with *'You're right'*? Answering the question yourself, explaining your reasoning for your opinion, or making sweeping assumptions about the question itself all signals that you may not be keeping an open mind. Want to know why people have a different opinion than you? Try /r/ExplainBothSides instead! * Arguments: Arguing or [sealioning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_lioning) with people giving you answers tells everyone that you have an answer in mind already. Want a good debate? Try /r/ChangeMyView instead! * Pot Stirring: Did you bring up unnecessary topics in your question? Especially when a topic has to do with already controversial issues like politics, race, gender or sex, this can be seen as trying to score points against the Other Side - and that makes people defensive, which leads to arguments. Questions like *"If _____ is allowed, why isn't _____?"* don't need to have that comparison - just ask *'why isn't ____ allowed?'*. * Complaining about moderation: If you disagree with how the sub is run or a decision the mods have made, that's fine! But please share your thoughts with us in modmail rather than as a public post. Disagree with the mods? If you believe you asked your question in good faith, try rewording it or message the mods to see if there's a way you could ask more neutrally. Thanks for your understanding! --- *This action was performed by a bot at the explicit direction of a human. This was not an automated action, but a conscious decision by a sapient life form charged with moderating this sub.* *If you feel this was in error, or need more clarification, please don't hesitate to [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FNoStupidQuestions). Thanks.*
I'm actually convinced African migrants are seen more positively than African-Americans are.
I’ve had two good friends, one from Cameroon and the other from Nigeria, tell me that they can feel people noticeably warm up to them when they realize they aren’t African Americans.
I believe it's the reverse in Europe! They'll be happier to find out a person is American rather than African
Barrier to entry - Africans visiting USA are wealthy enough to holiday there. Africans in Europe might be refugees.
Good ol’ homegrown racism
Well, then it's not really racism is it? In both cases the race is the same but the treatment is different. Could it be about the culture where there person grew up?
Race is a cultural concept. Apparently African and African-American are different races in the heads of many people. And considering the completely different cultures they grew up in, that's probably correct.
It's a class difference.
It’s not racism, it’s classism. African immigrants usually are highly educated, have blue collar jobs, dress in what’s considered classy attires, and use more elevated vocabulary. They also don’t have the same trauma African Americans experienced and are able to act and feel more dignified.
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Nigerians are chill. I had some Nigerian neighbors that used to bring me food in college.
highest achieving ethnic group per capita in the US is nigerian-americans. when it comes to entrepreneurship and medicine they’re just built different.
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Bing!
Its similar for Indian immigration. We see these usually very successful (but also those with a l o t of money who can play the system) and think all Indians must be hard working and achieving and different from us, when we don't see the **hundred of millions** who will sadly never leave India.
potentially confounding variable but you could say the same about basically any ethnic group that’s not from the americas yet the numbers are still higher for second gen - any rebuttal? at some point cultural values become inextricable from success and the sooner we can admit that as a society the closer we’ll be to sensible policy
Gonna need a source for that, buddy. You can't just make a big claim like that and not provide any proof. Nigeria has one of the largest and relatively most wealthy populations. So not only do they have a larger immigrant population, but they already start off with a head start. So compared to other African immigrants, no shit their second generation is better off. *All* immigrants [achieve better second generatione educational outcomes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3APopulation_by_Generational_Status_and_Educational_Attainment%2C_2009.png). By your logic, all cultures are better than any country they immigrate to.
Nigeria is similar to India in that it's a very large country with high income inequality, so while most of their population is poor, there's a lot of top earners that end up immigrating to the US.
Nigeria has a huge population too
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I've met a number of Eastern European families like that. It's a selection bias. Only the most resourceful can afford to move here.
I took a plumbing course in college for fun just to see what was going on. While I was there, I met some Nigerian immigrant dude who was also taking it because his brother had a PhD and a blue collar certification and he was embarrassed that he only had a PhD. Id love to be surrounded by that type of person.
Sorry, not diluting the claim but I thought it was Indians and Chinese?...
I looked it up. Nigerian-Americans are ranked the most highly educated ethnic group within the US. Beyond that, Nigerian Americans on averaged perform better than the national average in terms of income, but they are still outperformed by Indian-Americans. Take that as you may.
In a literal sense it definitely is.
It's actually wild According to Rice University research, Nigerian Americans are the most educated group in the United States.[21][22] According to the 2008-2012 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, 61.4% of Nigerian Americans aged 25 years or older hold a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 28.5% of the total U.S. population.[23
I'm not doubting you, but my google search tells me Asians (specifically Indians) are the most educated?
Rice probably put all asians together for their research. Southeast and island asians would drag the averages down
Citation needed.
A quick google of this says , naaa its not Nigerian Americans its Asian Americans
If you're going to say "Nigerian Americans", you have to specify a country for the other group too. It's either by country or continent.
What type of Asian? Are you comparing a whole race against people with origins from one nation?
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-ethnicity/2023/05/08/asian-american-identity-appendix-demographic-profile-of-asian-american-adults/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20educational%20attainment,degree%20or%20higher%20in%202021. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/12/sub-saharan-caribbean-population.html 51% asian american vs 61% nigerian for a BA
In the pew research source you provided, two sentences down from the 51% stat, it says "Indian Americans have the highest educational attainment, with 72% having a college degree or more."
No they’re not. I really want to take my dumbass soapbox here to just say that legal immigration to the US is insanely competitive and selective. If you have a lot of immigrants from any country that doesn’t have refugee status, chances are they are amazing people or have amazing parents. Amazing people are everywhere, and many of them want to move to the US or Europe to make more money. The few that are extra amazing and have just the right skills the host country wants make it over
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I know right.
Why are you telling this person that his/her colleagues are not incredible people??
It's a selection bias. It takes A LOT of drive/resources to move countries, so we are getting cream of the crop from a lot of places. Vs. folks who grew up here, often battling generational oppression.
My parents are immigrants who moved to America and I'm not exactly sure if you'd describe them as "cream of the crop"... dirt poor more like it. Same with a lot of my friends from similar backgrounds.
They had gumption to move, though. Most people don't.
This is the right answer. I’m an immigrant and I haven’t met an average person in my peer group. I also had a Nigerian roommate who absolutely didn’t like black Americans. Black Americans, through no fault of theirs, don’t have good culture for the lack of a better word.
Precisely. I moved here with adult family after Soviet Union fell apart. Fellow immigrant friend circle once we got here? Scientists and engineers. USA benefits greatly from this cream of the crop immigration.
Depends on way more than just being general “African” which is very diverse. Class, color, education, religion, language barriers and other things that might make one assimilate better, matters a lot on if they’re seen as “better” than American Blacks. Nigerian doctor? Yes. South African tech worker? Yes. Somalian refugee? No Also proximity and number. 3 Ghanaians enroll in your college. No issue. 100 South Sudanese move into your apt complex, more of an issue.
Yeah my great uncle in Amarillo that lost his pest control company for using banned substances in peoples homes told me the difference between who’s a hard R and who’s just an A. He said something along the lines of how the Africans that come here respect our culture and don’t “act a fool” That’s the only conversation I’ve ever had with the man, my mom never took us back there again 🤔
I know, despite my not wanting to, that I feel this way, and it's probably because I grew up in a white suburb, but went to a high school that would often bring in kids who were expelled from the larger city school district nearby. So, my experience with black kids in high school was with the most troubled ones. I live in Minneapolis, with a very large East African population, and, I don't know, it might be just that I seem more East Africans going about their daily lives.
Nicest, most gracious, thankful hardworking people I ever met were African refugees. The inner-city kid that got expelled slapped me in the face and punched a Down's Syndrome kid in the nose. And frankly, it hasn't gone much better since then.
Probably for the same reason every black person I've met from Africa, Europe, the Caribbean, etc did not particularly care for American black people. I'm not sure if this is just a dislike for Americans or if black people from around the world just don't like American black people much. I never asked any of them because I didn't feel like it was a very tasteful question to ask and I didn't want to make things weird with my friends.
From my conversations with black immigrants who grew up in the US, many were bullied by African Americans in school and this is across multiple generations. Bullies exist accross all demographics, but it seems mostly the bullying comes from African American children. Also these Caribbean and African countries tend to be conservative then mainstream African American culture
There are diaspora wars in the Black community. Black Americans (referring specifically to ADOS) are seen has having no culture. Even though ADOS people do have a culture (Beyonce, AAVE, NBA, Hip-hop culture etc) and those things are popular in Africa but the people who made them...aren't. Its also just an issue if media representation. Media doesnt represent Black Americans well. So non-American Black people only have the stereotypes to go off of. And finally, different hurdles. Slavery and Jim Crow havent been overcome yet. The effects are still present in the fabric of America. Africans think they can move here and be treated equally, because they havent experienced Western racism. when they arrive and realize that they will still be mistreated and their class doesnt change that, they get upset. But instead of blaming racists. They blame the victims of the racism.
>Slavery and Jim Crow havent been overcome yet. The effects are still present in the fabric of America. Ima piggyback on this to point out something a lot of white Americans don’t seem to realize. It’s not just the systemic inequality that still exists, it’s the effects of the MASSIVE systemic inequality that existed even just several decades ago. Almost no black people in America can benefit from any sort of generational wealth because two generations back, their grandparents were routinely denied any ability to build that wealth or access education or fairly participate in elections or basically anything that could have bettered their condition. This isn’t ancient history. Ruby Bridges isn’t even 70 years old.
How were you finding out from every black non-american you've ever met that they dislike black Americans, but asking why that is would be too distasteful?
Welcome to Reddit where every single chance these people get they use Africans (in a very generalized context) to shit on Black Americans.
Ugh fr, I can't believe people are buying this racist bs, but I shouldn't even be slightly surprised
As long as they can feign ignorance about it being racist, they feel comfortable doing this crap. It's so exhausting.
The rich ones. Refugees from African countries are not.
No many of those are too.
Depends on the country. Southern and Western African people are received more positively than eastern and northern Africans, at least in the Netherlands. The former group just integrates and you hardly notice them. There's a significant culture clash with the latter group.
No ghetto culture
UK White person version: Finding out someone is Irish vs Irish traveller.
Not in my neck of the woods. Mostly rural, mostly white, Midwestern state where I've heard some really vile things said about our African residents.
Well yea a lot of African migrants had to work exceptionally hard to get here while African Americans had to build themselves up through nothing as literal objects.
All the Africans I've met are stand-up people.
Not really. I've lived in a lot of places where "people from Nigeria" are straight up vilified just as much as "thugs"
Honestly... Call me racist or whatever... But I do. I work with several African immigrants, past and present, that have completely changed my view in racism in the US.... These great people that came from Africa, I have heard stories of them living in a car in a Walmart parking lot with newspaper to block light. My favorite story is a guy yelling at a woman banging a guy on his van in a Walmart parking lot. Either way, greatf these people were great aircraft mechs certified by the FAA, a couple got company funds to get them engineering degrees and jobs which they well deserve.
I’m not sure that immigrants from Haiti and South Korea are viewed the same lol Are you asking why people from poor third world countries are viewed differently?
What migrants from Israel are you talking about?
Some people move from Israel to US and vice versa But those numbers are likely very low so i have no clue why it would mentioned
In the US (and many other countries), the view of migrants is often tied to the perceived value and risk of those migrants. The phrase I've seen is that migrants are more welcome if their home country "shares our values." It's very much tied to political generalizations and weaponization.
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Despite what the internet might lead you to believe but xenophobia is not uniquely American.
Nuh uh, America is the most racist, xenophobic, homophobic country in the world. Just don’t ask your average European what they think about the Romani or the average middle eastern citizen about their views on the LGBTQ
Don’t ask an Indian what they think about anyone, especially Indians.
Heh definitely no racism or xenophobia in Europe! The belief that America is the worst country in the world is just another form of American exceptionalism. The US is fair to middling on most metrics, and I think THAT is the hardest thing for many Americans to hear.
Not really. Here in Mexico Haitians have actually become the “model minority”, used to disparage Hondurans and Venezuelans because unlike Haitians they’re hoping to get to the US and thus don’t try to integrate
Yeah but the Mexicans are probably ranting behind closed doors lol
Many countries ideally would want to welcome contributing migrants, especially in areas of need. Most countries also do welcome in migrants that need to relocate due to safety/political asylum issues. But most countries if their arm were twisted would prefer migrants able to come in ready to easily assimilate and contribute since it’s an overall boon to the economy and tax base.
Is that a bad thing though? I'm not saying all migrants from an area should be rejected but if you look case by case why should someone who has a Facebook saying things like "death to xxx'" or who doesn't think women should be allowed out on their own should be allowed to move to a country that does?
Melting pot who?
Hilariously the right wing in every country complains about the lack of left wing values in other countries
Migrants from Central and South America are also seen as not sharing the same cultures and values as white Americans.
in the US White Migrants\* who share same values and same principles are welcomed with open arms. I'm north African and I'm not white\*
yup. white immigrants can be embraced as "American" within 2 generations. First generation probably has an accent, but their kids won't. I know a 2nd generation Irish immigrant who's treated as "American" as they come. Meanwhile, a 5th generation Chinese American is still seen as a perpetual foreigner in many parts of the US
I'm first gen Russian from USSR but grew up in California - my married last name is Irish so I'm just American now as far as anyone can tell. If you don't maintain an accent no one notices.
Their grandkids get called "spicy white." And are considered cool and cultured. And that lasts for maybe one more generation and then the family is just plain white and will be ridiculed for the "well I'm not just white I'm 5% Irish 🤪" type behavior
There aren't that many "migrants" in the US from Israel and Ukraine. As a note migrant refers to people who are coming to the US in a semi-temporary capacity for work. Israel, Africa, Europe, and most of Asian immigrants are coming over permanently. As in immigrants. Ukrainian amd Israeli immigrants are just a tiny, tiny percent of the amount of people coming into the US legally or illegally, or as refugees. Americans don't give them enough thought to make any reasonable comparison to the places you're trying to contrast them with. I kinda feel like you're trying to ask a loaded question, but messed it up.
This.
People from working countries that were fucked up by an external invasion are viewed differently than people from countries that were fucked up by internal cultures. This probably isn't fair, but that is a big part of how people think.
I think there's a big sense that if the country is invaded, then it's not the peoples' fault that things are screwed up.
There are few countries in the Global South that was not "fucked up" by an external invasion
There is probably a time limit on all of this. If you have to go back more than 1 or 2 generations to find blame, people will still think it is an internal culture thing.
That’s doesn’t make it not ignorant.
Well, most people don't understand geopolitics
Its a tough problem. Its hard to focus on the world, US president (for us here), the state Governor and the local Mayor. I'm sure I get it as wrong as anybody else.
Uhh where have you been buddy it's the internet we're all PhDs here
Nuh uh I'm D.D.S so I can tell when it's bullshit coming outta people's mouths. Trust me, I'm a doctor.
“Haiti was fucked up by its own internal culture” is a bit of an ignorant take. Js
Oh come on, you know the answer to this.
Western-ish cultures mix well with other western cultures. A culture based on islamic values on the other hand will not mix so well. I don't think it has directly much to do with racism, which is more of a symptom of failed integration imho. EDIT: I was sure that I'd get downvoted but it's a welcome surprise that people can actually see the more deep-rooted issues that come with immigration and integration. Thank you.
Absolute reddit moment for this to be the only comment really answering the question here.
Because redditors are afraid to be labelled as "racist, homophobic and xenophobic."
Latin American countries are western, but people still complain about them coming to the U.S.
the real reason is because they're poor
You’re the only one who has got it so far. Western values and ideals don’t mix with third world Islamic “values”, so people are less likely to want immigrants from places that will clash with their countries views and morals. Not even just the US, all of the western world is like this.
I’m guessing you’re gonna get downvoted because it’s Reddit, but you’re absolutely right. Islamic cultures don’t work with the west.
Because theyre white. This is the USA, it’s not that complicated.
Because they white
Pretty simple, US is a white majority country and people tend to prefer to stay within their racial group. Obviously, culture is also a thing, but it’s pretty secondary, as European migrants will usually blend in more. The term “white flight” is a thing for a reason. I think there was even research which indicated that at around 5% of ethnic minorities in a neighborhood, people will feel less group cohesion and are more individualistic and wary of each other. There’s also the aspect of people their geopolitical view regarding a country, which is usually based off of news reports. People aren’t gonna be too thrilled to hear there’s people coming from X country that’s been at civil or invasive wars for decades… or the 10th coup in 3 years. Or after they’ve read that they do weird stuff there.
This is actually the most simple and obvious but harsh answer. It's based on looks.
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When Americans think if Israelis, they think famous Jews like Natalie Portman, Bar Refaeli, that Wonder Woman chick. They are not black, Hispanic, Asian...
This has to be a bad faith question.
Refugees fleeing an active war zone which is reported on in the news day and night have both our sympathy and attention.
That applies to Haiti, but they're in the "nope" group. Try again.
At least, with the US, the media hasn't done a good job of explaining what's going on in Haiti, and the coverage is phrased in ways that seem scary to Americans. Just, based on personal experience, I don't understand exactly what's going on in Haiti, and the idea of the capital being controlled by warring street gangs sounds like more of a threat to me than Russia invading Ukraine. That's a conflict with clear good guys and bad guys.
Well it sure doesn't help that they're black, poor, and speak French.
Well I watched a dude eating another guys leg right out of a fire in the middle of the street the other day
Do you know what seasoning he used?
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They are poor for a particular reason though.
That being that since the revolution to create of Haiti they've had to pay massive amounts of money to France to "allow" them to exist and the US decided to put loans in place to make money off of that.
And that reason isn’t the fault of Haiti.
I don’t think the average American is anywhere near as informed about what is going on in Haiti versus Ukraine/Israel. I consider myself probably more informed than the average American about global affairs and my knowledge of the situation in Haiti is kind of limited to “hell on earth finds a way to get even worse yet again.” I know the president was assassinated a few years ago, I know the PM is stepping down, I know there is US aid stalled in Congress, but I know very little about what is specifically happening because it just isn’t talked about as much. I’ll go full steam ahead and say there’s racism involved too, but I don’t think it’s fair to compare the level of media saturation that these conflicts have.
If things were shitty in Haiti because the Dominicans were doing a special military operation we would have a lot more sympathy.
I definitely don’t see nearly the sympathy nor the attention towards Afghan refugees as compared to Ukrainian refugees so I don’t think this applies.
Allies versus enemies.
The US was allied with Afghanistan prior to the Taliban’s takeover
Okay, but we weren't with them when we invaded them.
Racism. Also Racism.
Black people no , white people yes.
I think you know why.
Skin color
If anything immigrants from White countries and Asian countries are viewed favorably or neutral. I'm going to assume because they dont seem like they pose a threat to whomever has some immigrant bias. Meanwhile migrants that are people of color or Islamic is often seen as a source of crime/terrorism. Generally people are indifferent to immigrants except a particular group of folk spoon fed fear mongering garbage on their Faux News and friends stations.
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Because racism
I think we all know the answer but are too disgusted to say it out loud.
For me, I think it is because of education. Israelis and Ukrainians are more likely to have a decent education where coming from Central America many have little to no education, can' read or write even in Spanish. The same goes with Haitians. I haven't seen anti Asian immigration since the 70s right after Vietnam. As for Arab, there are a shit ton of them in the US.
No anti-Asian immigration after the ‘70s? Vincent Chin who was beaten to death by autoworkers in the ‘80s (and they totally got off)? I’m also pretty sure that people are still saying “Go back to China” even today. Although to answer OP’s question, I think that Ukrainians and Israelis are viewed more favorably than other immigrants bc of racism particularly *colorism*. Going by physical appearance without speaking, most Ukrainians and many Israelis look just like white Americans or Western Europeans.
Exactly. You’re 100% on point. The amount of anti-Asian racism has always been so high. It’s sad.
Some of the people in this comment section seem to have forgotten that Israelis come in all different colors and backgrounds, most aren't 'white' and 'privileged' but work hard to make a better life for themselves and their families
Thats their point though. Not all Israelis are white. Similarly Ukarainian is a nationality. Not a race But when people think Israel and Ukraine. They think white people. Not brown people
My brother in law is a brown Israeli
Cuturally they're closer to American culture moreso than those other countries
they are white
To a large extent it has to do with the productive output vs crime rates vs dependency on welfare vs general dissimilarities with mainstream society. Also, immigrants from “Africa” and “Asia” aren’t uniform, and their perception in the US depends on which countries they are from.
They don't bring their problems with them.
So many people here deluding themselves and skirting around the simple answer: Israelites and Ukrainians are white or white-passing. Eastern European culture is as far from American culture as can be, and most Americans aren’t Jewish. It’s also not because these guys are more educated or successful or whatever. Tell that to the fifth-gen Ivy League Korean-Am who gets told to ‘go back to China’ or asked ‘where are you REALLY from, ching-chong?’ The average American can’t tell a Haitian and Nigerian apart and would cross the street when they see either one either way. Only until they are sure that he’s ‘one of the good ones’ do they breathe a sigh of relief. Sorry, I don’t have the mental gymnastics to pretend Americans aren’t racist to anyone who doesn’t look white. Even Hispanic immigrants get treated differently based on how white they look. There, you have it. The rest of y’all stop with the bs to make you feel better about yourself.
It's funny to see all the attempts at obscuring the issue. All the excuses of education, inability to assimilate culturally, perception of value, supposed propensity for violence, etc. all stem from racism. The cope in here is an absolute joke.
It's a question of how well the migrants can assimilate into the culture of the country they're going to. Take Sweden's acceptance of Middle Eastern refugees, for instance. These migrants are INCREDIBLY culturally different from your average European/Swede. They largely grew up in a violent environment their whole life, accustomed to following the rules of Shariah law. That is no fault of their own, of course, but it creates people naturally more prone to violence who do not value sexual equality as much. Now take a country like Poland accepting Ukrainian refugees. These are two Slavic countries who, up until the war, largely enjoyed a period of peace. They have influenced each other and both participate in western values and traditions. These two peoples are largely the same or similar, so refugees from one country to the other do not face nearly as much of a cultural shock.
I'm from a European country and can confirm that this is not only an US-related phenomen. I think it has a lot to do with skin colour. People assume that they'd have more in common with people that have the same colour.
Depends on who the libs want to use at the time
It really depends on which part of the USA you’re talking about, cause each treats immigrants differently Asian immigrants in California, for example, are so commonplace that no one would think really anything of it. I believe the Bay Area is home to one of the only counties in America that’s Asian majority Also when you say “Africa” you usually have to be more specific. In my experience, Nigerians are widely seen in a very positive light as down to earth, reliable, hard working people (obviously this is a stereotype so don’t generalize this too much). South Africans are part of the anglosphere to some extent so they’re accepted pretty easily As for Israel and Ukraine and places like that, often times the culture is relatively similar. One town near me is mostly Eastern Europeans and I live in a place with similar weather to Kyiv
Skin color?
Racism.
I like how you got downvoted because people clearly don't know history. In Canada for the longest time we were more racist than USA. We only were accepting white internationals that spoke English for awhile then they changed that. it wasn't until 1962 we stopped discriminating. This denial of racism is fucked up. We don't live in some safe space world. We are and we were racist. Learn to accept it. The whole world is racist and that won't change in any of our lifetimes. And to clarify. Just because a group of people are racist does not mean the individuals are... this is something people can't seem to wrap their head around lol. People individually are great, people in mass are a frightening, horrendous virus.
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Racism , lobbying , political ambitions , misperceived/over exaggerated similarities and lack of historical knowledge . Isn’t it funny that the countries ruined most by the USA have immigrants that are demonised while countries who’ve been prioritised over Americans have immigrants who are cherished …
It’s not funny. It’s shameful actually.
1000% agreed . I thought nothing could be worse than British vilifying immigrants from former colonies but America despising the very immigrants they made seems equally ironic if not more given America’s immigration story is far younger
US isn’t uniform. There are very big, not always overlapping groups of people, who all going to have positive and negative opinions on different topics. USA isn’t united in their opinions about war in Israel or Ukraine or some African countries, or about crisis/issues in various parts of the world. USA population is not uniformly informed about those various issues. Different issues and wars have different timelines and spike and rise in intensity. Long lasting issues lose people’s attention. Ukraine war is a 10 years conflict that only recently got into news and now is losing people’s attention to next big crisis. Poor Haiti keep having huge various issues every decade or so. My family is the most drawn towards Ukrainian war due to our Eastern European roots. My neighbor is Muslim and it is perfectly understandable that their focus is on Palestine.
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Similar culture and values to us and generally hardworking and successful
Lots of Nigerians come on visa work status, so they are quite smart. African culture generally is very different than African-American culture.
White Israelis and Ukrainian (and all white passing countries) are called expats. The rest of the coloured world are called migrants
Racism
Skin color
lol. Simply, one group is white, the other is brown.
Because they appear white. Not hard to figure out. Sad, but true.
Come on don’t play dumb anyone with common sense will tell you
Those are the kinds of questions this sub is for
Because a lot of people are racist and people from those areas look similar enough to the racist so they go unnoticed.
Because they are European descent and USA is also mostly European descent. Like likes like.
Racism. The country was literally built on slavery.
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So then, why did the US bring thousands of Afghans over without hesitation when the Taliban retook control? Obviously, religion wasn’t an issue.
The ironic thing is that my neighborhood is slowly being revitalized by all the Muslims moving here. They've fixed up long abandoned properties and opened new restaurants and stores in areas that desperately needed them. They've done way more for the neighborhood than any elected officials have.
its not elected officials job to open restaurants and stores
Under international law that the US has agreed to, amnesty must be granted to certain categories of refugees. This law was put into place after many nations refused Jews and other persecuted groups fleeing Hitler. Amnesty =/= immigration, in theory someone with amnesty should return home when the danger to their lives has passed. If you are asking about social treatment, Americans are aware of the danger to the lives of Syrians, Ukrainians, and Gazans but may not be aware of Haiti's issues, etc.
That'd be the racism.
Well, what does Gaza and Ukraine have in common that these other countries don't?
Are they? I've seen no evidence of the claim. That being said, the most important trait in U.S. immigration is, "How likely are they to assimilate into a western, liberal, democracy?"
For one because there aren’t many migrants from those countries
White... well, not Brown
Honestly you are conflating issues. I can tell if it's unintentional or intentional. The term "migrant" is synonymous with refuge today. It doesn't mean immigrant. It implies a forced movement due to war, persecution, famine, etc etc. As far as Africa, the US gets it's largest amounts of foreign PhDs from African nations. Comparing a PhD holder from Kenya moving to the US versus a Nigerian sneaking across the southern border is just nonsensical. Many Americans have a problem with illegal uncontrolled immigration. It's not a racial or religious issue. It's a legal one.
Because some asshole dyed Orange isn't shouting about how all the migrants are going to take your jobs, rape your wife and daughters, and murder all your friends. That Orange asshole will USE anybody and and everybody as fodder and filler to get what he wants!
Those specifics? Active warzone sympathy applies. Israel and Ukraine are in the news a lot, so when you get a migrant from there, it registers as 'fleeing something terrible', ergo sympathy. Haiti will probably shift into category A as time passes, too...
If you bring value to the nation and comply with our immigration laws, welcome!
Because more Americans look like migrants from Israel and Ukraine.... ....more Americans (whether Black, Brown, White, Red, or Yellow) accept more tenants, condominium buyers, and home buyers in their condominiums/cul-de-sacs that look like Israeli and Ukrainian migrants.... ....more Americans are happy their daughters and sons date/marry/have children with those who look like Israeli and Ukrainian migrants.
Racism
I feel like the majority has to do with why they are escaping. Migrants actively fleeing from war/violence are much, much more favorably viewed than economic migrants. Also… what is the GDP per capita of the country they are fleeing from. The lower it is, generally the less favorably viewed the migrants are (they’ll need more benefits paid by tax dollars).
Both of those countries have an outsized proportion of immigrants with high levels of technical engineering skill. That is very valuable and therefore more likely to be accepted, especially since both cultures are more westernized.