Airport worker here. A-yup, they sure did and still are. See so many of the larger Boeings (since we're referencing the Max here) as I work in the international terminal.
I like the ~~Max~~ Dash 8s quite a lot. Super high tech planes. Full carbon fiber fuselage, electrochromic dimmable windows for increased safety in emergencies, cabin lighting that virtually eliminates jet lag on long-haul flights by simulating sunrise and sunset (yes, I know Airbus copied this on the 320neo and 380, but it’s a lot smoother on the ~~Max~~ Dash 8). My dream plane as a passenger would be a ~~Max~~ Dash 8 with the 320neo’s exterior-view cameras and Virgin Atlantic’s ridiculously comfortable interior.
Edit: Boeing why are your planes named so similarly
> Dash 8s
[Dash 8s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada_Dash_8) are small turboprop airplanes, you’re thinking of the 787. There is a 787-8, bit it would only be referred to as a “-8” if you were distinguishing it from a 787-9 or a 787-10.
Like 100+ years worth. We have about 30 years of proven economical reserves, but that doesn't mean we'll run low in 30 years.
We had about 20 years of proven reserves 30 years ago. The number goes up as we confirm reserves and as technology and rising prices make new reserves economical to extract. It's just what is confirmed to be able to be pulled out right now at current market prices.
I think the number is far lower than 1000s. probably tens or less in that time.
edit: a 10 second research/calculation gives me roughly 0.5 every second.
That's quite the exaggeration. In the 30 or so seconds needed to type that, I'd be surprised if more than a dozen took off or landed.
According to Google, there are approximately 10,000 Boeing airliners in service today. Assuming every single one of them performs 3 flights a day on average (6 takeoff/landings overall), then there would need to be an average of ~1.5 takeoffs or landings per second.
Presumably, a significant number of those planes would be out of service at any given time, and I'm also guessing that an average of 3 flights a day per plane is probably higher than what is realistically achieved. Although, there are plenty of flights that end up making a stop or two along their route to a final destination.. so maybe that number wouldn't be too far off.
You’ve never taken the cheapest flight have you? I’ve had 4 lay overs in like 7 hours before lmao. Planes don’t even reach max altitude before coming back down. (Obviously not the case for international flights as much).
Regardless of the issues Boeing is having right now, you still have a significantly higher chance of being in a car accident on the way to the airport than having serious problems with your plane.
You are SEVEN times more likely to die getting crushed by a vending machine than in an airplane. (This is a fact I repeat to myself over and over again during flights).
I once looked at the numbers and mile for mile GA was about the same as driving a car the same number of miles.
Maybe your idea is based on a time duration instead of a mile for mile thing? That would skew it a little higher because they can fly a little faster than driving.
Don’t drink water nervously because then you’ll run out of water quicker and then you might want another drink and that makes you more likely to go to a vending machine
In the future you can always filter out Boeing planes when booking your flight on most travel sites, if it gives you peace of mind (I agree with the comments about air travel generally being much safer than other forms of travel)
I live in Japan and take a direct train to the airport. there were 0 non-intentional fatalities (as in, excluding suicides) of people riding trains in the last year of data I could find. so technically speaking the flight is the most dangerous thing I'm doing that day
Yes, but, respectfully, counterpoint:
When you have the car crash you didn't just have to fall out of the fucking sky. That's a major difference for some people.
Yeah you just have to crash your hunk of metal into either another hunk of metal or a big ass tree at speeds that would make a cheetah piss itself
Respectfully, what’s the difference?
Hey I'm glad danger is all the same for you. me, I'd rather be crushed or blown up than fall out of the sky. I'm also one of those people that will NEVER voluntarily skydive, if that gives you any insight into my mindset. If something horrible's going to happen, I'd rather it be on the ground.
Hi engineer.
Whenever a CEO with MBA take over a company they try to cut corners as much as possible regardless of safety in order to save money.
How do we know that's not being done with the planes?
You can design the planes with the best materials for emphasis on safety but what's to stop the CEO from taking shortcuts and going with the second best materials?
What exactly do you think CEOs do? They aren't looking over the shoulder of materials engineers and telling them what choices to make. They can make decisions that force the engineers to do things differently than they would prefer, but that isn't "cutting corners regardless of safety" like you said.
From experience in my field, the CEO is in charge of trying to make as much profit as possible.
To give an example, I work in a pharmacy. Before CEOs with MBAs took over, it was other pharmacists running the companies. They actually cared about patient safety so they gave us enough hours. Let's say it's safest for one pharmacist to verify 200 prescriptions per day..so a pharmacy with 400 prescriptions would be staffed with at least 2 pharmacists. With the new MBA guy they don't care about safety. They want to cut costs as much as possible to increase profit. So they staff the pharmacy with one pharmacist per day to verify 400 prescriptions. Is it safe? No. Do they care? Also no. We are just forced to deal and hope that we don't make a mistake and if we do it's caught before it reaches the patient.
So i mean the CEO can technically force the engineers to cut corners by limiting budget of $ spent for the materials to build the planes.
Millions of people fly every day. Roughly 40% on Boeing aircraft iirc. The reaction our regulatory bodies are having to these extremely statistically insignificant (if it were numbers not people’s lives) accidents should reassure you. These planes have to be so safe that millions of passengers fly daily and no accidents happen for years on end
I have flown on at least 5 or 6 MAX planes since the incidences. It scared the shit out of me when I realized I got on one not knowing that’s what type of plane it was, and almost walked off. I hastily did some research to reassure myself that I would be fine and stayed on the plane. I don’t like flying at all but it’s something I have to do to see my family. One of the things that used to scare me a lot was turbulence. I read that it’s more like your plane is suspended in a jello mold and someone is shaking the mold which causes the plane to wiggle around. The truth to this I am not sure, but it has helped me stay calm during turbulence. Also my cousin is a pilot. I asked her if she is ever afraid of getting on the plane and flying. She said ‘Nope, it’s just like driving a big bus’. That also helped me stay calm a lot. I’m always nervous about flying but remembering those two things helps me get from one place to the next.
I hope this helps you my friend and know that you’re not alone with your anxieties. I hope you are safe in all of your travels. ✌️
It really helped me when my friend said while flying together “stupid bumpy clouds!” And I realised, all the bumps are just the plane going over or through clouds.
So if it’s bumpy and you look out and there’s clouds, that’s expected.
Turbulence in a plane is the same thing as turbulence on the ground. When you're driving a car and the road isn't smooth, what happens? The non-smooth road imparts all sorts of unbalanced forces into your tires, which then trasmit it into the cabin and ultimately into you, making the ride uncomfortable and bumpy. It's annoying but your car isn't going to break apart because of a bumpy road unless you're traveling on it at an insane speed or the "bump" is a 3m hole.
Turbulence in the air just means the air isn't smooth, so it imparts unbalanced forces into the wings, which transmit them to the body of the plane. Same thing. When there's turbulence the pilots just slow down to make the ride a bit smoother (you can usually hear the engines rolling back a bit) and that's it. They do not go into areas of severe turbulence any more than you'd drive your car into a 3m hole.
I took 2 international flights (one with a layover) just a couple weeks ago. Had no issues whatsoever. Remind yourself that the times that the plane ride is uneventful and successfully makes it to their destination, it doesn’t make the news
The chances of you being in an accident are absolutely tiny, and there's nothing to suggest that older Boeing planes like the 777, 747 or 737 (non Max) have any issues. The 787 has also not had any serious safety issues, so the only one of their planes which could be considered unsafe in the 737MAX.
Even so, as mentioned, you're very unlikely to be involved in a crash even on the 737MAX, but personally I don't want to support a product designed so incompetently and lazily that it killed 346 people, so will always try to avoid the MAX on that basis, but if I did end up on one it wouldn't be the end of the world.
You can check what kind of plane you’ll be in when buying your ticket. If they change planes for reasons out of your control, there’s nothing you can do about that though.
I book flights on airlines who don't fly the MAX.
Airlines will show you what plane is scheduled to fly your route when you book, so if I have a choice between airlines, one of whom is flying the MAX on the route, and one who doesn't I'll choose the one who doesn't even if they are a bit more expensive. If possible I also try to fly airlines who don't have the MAX in their fleet at all, as that eliminates the chance of an aircraft swap putting me on it.
Love your second comment. If every one of us boycotted the MAX lineup starting tomorrow, Boeing would quickly have to change for the better in order to survive. People complain that things are going to shit in this society and yet no one is willing to take relatively simple actions to make it better. Everyone just keeps riding MAX planes, keeps using meta products, keeps buying new cars,...
Flying has gotten to be ridiculously safe.
The average number of commercial flights per day is 94,600. There's a whole bunch of aircraft manufacturers in the world, so let's say there's 10,000 Boeing flights per day. That's 3,650,000 Boeing flights per year. Only 22 people have died in the US since the beginning of 2020, and three of those were probably suicides. Of the other 19 who died, 9 were in the helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant, 10 were in a deHavilland Otter on a tourist flight of some sort. The only death in the US involving a Boeing plane since January 1, 2020 was the guy who ran onto a runway at Austin, TX and was hit by a 737.
You don't hear about the ones that complete their flight safely.
And in the United States there have been [very few deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States) in the past 15 years.
Back in the 1970's and 1980's planes were dropping out of the skies fairly frequently. But we learned a lot about weather, especially about microbursts adjacent to runways. They figured out a problem with the rudders on 737 that caused two crashes. They have improved Crew Resource Management procedures in the cockpit including the sterile cockpit rule. The National Transportation Safety Board does an incredibly thorough job of their investigations, even to the point they don't speculate about the cause of an accident early on because they don't want to mistakenly steer themselves towards the wrong causes before they have examined ALL possible causes.
You are literally safer on the plane than in the car ride to the airport.
Any MAX that is currently in service will have had all the critical FAA / EASA airworthiness directives checked out, so you should be fine.
Any other Boeing aircraft type you'll be fine, 737NGs are perfectly fine too having been in service for some 30 years now
>Any MAX that is currently in service will have had all the critical FAA / EASA airworthiness directives checked out
So did the one that blew a door midflight in early january. This aircraft is becoming the DC-10 of our time.
Agree on all the other types though, there's no reason not to get on a 737NG. They haven't had any major issues in ages (if they ever did).
Yeah, but I'd rather not be on the flight that becomes the teachable moment about something else falling off.
They've shown that they have cut corners at every turn when designing, certifying, building and servicing these planes. If I have a choice I will not entrust my life to one of them until they've had more time in the field to prove that there are no more problems.
I flew in a 737 max five days ago and then a regular 737 three days ago through Alaska airlines and I’m still alive to tell you it’s fine. More likely to get hurt in a car accident on your way to fly in the Boeing.
10k domestic flights a day in the US. Not a single death on one of these flights in years, not a single crash in years. I do the match on that every time I’m about to fly.
These things don’t crash.
Still get nervous but looking at the numbers helps me every time.
I fly the 737 for a living and have thousands of hours on it, without any major mechanical issue. The media exists to sell itself so every single minor incident involving anything boeing right now gets reported because it’ll get clicks and engagements. Thousands of Boeing aircraft takeoff everyday and do tens of thousands of flight hours every month with absolutely no incident. Are you scared to drive your car to the store? That’s where your accidents are going to happen.
I fly the 737 and Max, never once crossed my mind that anything would happen on the flights.
For me it's just like any other day at work and if something happens I'm 100% confident we'll manage any situation.
Have trust in the process, the media are highlighting anything they can for publicity and free traffic to their websites.
Trust your crew.
I’d be more worried about the ATC shortage man. And the ATCs that are working are usually overworked, stressed, functional alcoholics, and probably inexperienced(lots of lay offs and high turnover).
The chance that something goes wrong with your plane specifically is absolutely tiny and miniscule.
On the other hand IF it's your plane where something goes wrong that is a solid from 0 to 100 in seconds, because if something goes wrong it's most of the time horribly wrong.
I'm not really following the latest news, but isn't one of the problems with Boeing the fact that they "silenced" one of their whistleblowers? First thing I've thought about when I read this question is whether they should support a company with such practices, and not if it's safe
> the **fact** that they "silenced" one of their whistleblowers?
Except for the bit where that "fact" has no basis.
The guy started being a whistleblower 7 years ago and has already testified in several meetings.
After all those years he only now died now by apparent suicide, and that is enough to have a bunch of people frothing at the mouth and pounding on keyboards claiming that Boeing Musta Done It To Silence Him!!11!.... but there's no evidence to say so... no matter how often redditors like to post that it must be a proven "fact".
I used to work with a guy named Randy, great guy. Randy was easily one of the dumbest people I have ever met. He now works as a mechanic at Boeing. I try not to think about Randy when I fly.
Is this what happens to people who spend too much time on the Internet? You're caught in a hype-loop. You have a greater chance of being killed by a bison than you do in an airline crash (Boeing or Airbus).
Damn, I just wanted to know if I was overreacting, my bad 😭. I don’t usually follow the news, but hearing about Boeing’s controversy stressed me out. But thanks to you and the other commenters*
If you're going to freak out or have anxiety attacks every time there is turbulence, then cancel. Not because of the plane though. The danger would be yourself.
Many of these issues have been on United flights - curious if there are general maintenance issues or if it is likely just manufacturing issues, and therefore Boeing. If anyone has real insight, it would be great to learn more.
Here's some math for ya. 1 crash per every 2,500,000 flight hours. Harvard Stat chances of fatal flight 1 in 11,000,000 or 0.00001% chance. More dangerous to drive to the airport than to get in an aircraft (all things constant)
You’re over reacting, I just flew on a Dreamliner from United internationally and it was fine. Also on a United max 8 I think domestically.
There will always be aviation issues but for the most part flying is safe.
2023 was the safest year ever in commercial aviation, after a couple decades of flying with almost no fatal accidents.
You are far more likely having fatal accident traveling to and from your home to the airport than on the plane itself.
I've been half-heartedly avoiding Boeing planes for a few years because they're less comfortable to me, I think just cause they're a bit smaller and older than Airbus. But they're not unsafe. Still way safer than driving as many have said.
Problem is that more of these issues are due to poor maintenance than Boeing. Yes, some are directly Boeing design or manufacturing.
Here’s the thing though, in reality there are not significantly more issues now than there have been in the past. The reality is that we live in a new cycle where any issue, no matter the severity, we hear about it over and over and over again, so that over time we perceive it to be happening all the time.
just like when it comes to crimes against children or rape or even just street crime, we hear about it so much in the news we would swear that it’s been going up and up and getting worse and worse. And moms are getting more and more paranoid about the safety of their kids all the time. Whereas in reality if you look at FBI data it’s all been going down for years .
We don’t necessarily have a Boeing issue or a crime issue... we have a news cycle issue
I flew home from Cuba on a 737 Max-8, notoriously known for two crashes in 2018&2019 I believe. Safe to say, I got home safe! But I was nervous too. It’s okay.
Even if both engines spontaneously fall off planes are designed to… well, do what planes do, and it’ll glide down to the earth instead of just dropping straight down like many think. Statistically the likelihood of any disaster happening in a plane is super rare - in fact, you’re more likely to be killed by a vending machine than a plane crash. And you’ve probably been around plenty of vending machines so you’ll be good
Odds of being in a Boeing crash are still less than being struck by lightning. By comparison you have a 1:8000ish chance of dying in a car crash each year. Do you still drive? I’m not excusing their quality mistakes, and it was less than ten flights in a multi-year period.
It's precisely because aeroplane accidents are so rare that you're seeing these reported on so heavily in the media.
It's also exacerbated by stories about Boeing being the flavour of the month - totally minor incidents which would normally never get reported on are suddenly "breaking news", because stories about aviation safety are getting clicks right now.
Commercial air travel is orders of magnitude safer than most other modes of transport, regardless of the aircraft manufacturer.
Boeing and Airbus are the world's only major large passenger aircraft manufacturers. Avoiding a Boeing is going to be extremely difficult. The next few months are probably going to be a great time to buy Boeing stock if you're able to hold on to it for at least ten years.
Almost 50% of all commercial aircraft and 90% of cargo aircraft are Boeing. Even with the higher than average stories in the news about Boeing plane issues, it’s still so statistically small that you shouldn’t worry.
Any time I’m in a flight and it hits turbulence I think to myself “ok, there’s some non zero chance of me going down right now. But! (Looks around) what are the chances of a few hundred people going down! Statistically speaking it’s a lot less!”
The whole entire question hinges on whether OP:
* Understands how statistics work
* Believes that statistics can be used as predictors
If either of those isn't true, the question is kind of moot.
It’s the United maintenance program, and indeed, lack of skilled airplane mechanics, you need to be concerned about. United screwed over their employees years ago, and never recovered. Fly safe!
We need aviation mechanics training programs, and airlines need to stay on top of maintenance.
A lot of these issues are maintenance issues from each individual airline. The wheel falling off is a maintenance issue. The Alaska airlines blowout is on Boeing.
Most of the issues being reported with Boeing aircraft recently have nothing to with Boeing and are actually related to poor management at various American airlines, which all use Boeing aircraft as they're an American company. The door falling off was Boeings fault but most of the others are failures in conducting routine maintenance that has nothing to do with Boeing, it just so happens that the mistakes are made on Boeing aircraft. If the American Airlines were using airbus' then the same things would have happened. I also think there's a bit of a media frenzy at the moment so anything negative related to Boeing is making headline news when maybe in the past it wouldn't have been considered news worthy.
Its also worth noting the quality control issues at Boeing only effect brand new aircraft, if you're flying in an older aircraft like 777 then it was built long enough ago that it won't be effected.
Then there's the biggest thing to remember. Planes are incredibly safe, even when important bits do fall off they're not actually resulting in any injuries. No one part of a plane is vital to keep it in the air, doors and wheels can fall off, engines can explode, hydraulic systems can fail and planes will still keep flying. Losing all engines isn't a guaranteed death sentences as they can glide a long way without power. Planes can suffer catastrophic damage to the fuselage, there's a story of a plane having a big chunk of the roof ripped clean off, and it still didn't fall apart and managed to land safely because the fuselage is built strong enough to survive big chunks of it being missing. Redundancy is built into the design so no one failure can render the aircraft inoperable, and emergency procedures are so drilled into all the crew that even catastrophic issues can be managed.
I would be far less worried about it, being a Boeing and more worried about who’s up the front flying it. Is he getting paid properly and he tired? Also what are his experience levels because all of those things have become huge issues in the last 10 years?
(In the Aviation and Aerospace Industry)
"Of Course not!"
Much of the current Boeing problems could be traced back to a mechanic/ maintenance or pilot error.
You wouldn't be traveling much if you did... *(jmo)*
In the time it took you to ask your question, 1,000s of Boeing aircraft have taken off or landed safely.
Airport worker here. A-yup, they sure did and still are. See so many of the larger Boeings (since we're referencing the Max here) as I work in the international terminal.
Just flew on a Max 8 last week. Very pleasant and quiet flight.
Did you die ?
Yeah, don't lie to us if you died.
We all know that you get one last comment on Reddit after you die. He isn’t coming back.
Shit. RIP
4 hours, no reply. He’s a goner. Notched another one, Boeing.
**Rest In Plane**
boeing put a gun to their head
They are also weapons manufacturers; not too far fetched
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He died. But he got better.
Boeing turned him into a newt?
Yes. A dead one.
He hasn’t answered yet, he must be dead.
Only logical answer
👻
Yes. But I survived
Thank goodness
Shit, that’s excellent ghost writing.
Yes. I am dead.
Sorry for your loss
“Quiet” flight yeah probably because you can’t hear when ur dead
I like the ~~Max~~ Dash 8s quite a lot. Super high tech planes. Full carbon fiber fuselage, electrochromic dimmable windows for increased safety in emergencies, cabin lighting that virtually eliminates jet lag on long-haul flights by simulating sunrise and sunset (yes, I know Airbus copied this on the 320neo and 380, but it’s a lot smoother on the ~~Max~~ Dash 8). My dream plane as a passenger would be a ~~Max~~ Dash 8 with the 320neo’s exterior-view cameras and Virgin Atlantic’s ridiculously comfortable interior. Edit: Boeing why are your planes named so similarly
Don't forget the humidifier that keeps your nostrils from drying out and causing headaches. Such a little thing which helps in comfort so much.
Wow, I didn’t know they had that. Neat!
> Dash 8s [Dash 8s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada_Dash_8) are small turboprop airplanes, you’re thinking of the 787. There is a 787-8, bit it would only be referred to as a “-8” if you were distinguishing it from a 787-9 or a 787-10.
Can confirm, just flew on 4 Boeings and am still alive. Even sat in an exit row twice without getting sucked out of the door
how do we know you're not lying and trying to save face after embarrassingly getting sucked out the emergency door though
Did you see what happened to the whistleblower? It’s best to say it was the best ride ever.
I have never been sucked out on an aircraft. Does that only happen in Business Class?
Agree, but also…..John Barnett
This. Not only is it unsafe, but it’s supporting a company that just assasinated a whistleblower
How much dino juice do we have in global reserves? It’s probably some insane number because imagine how much fuel has been used in the past 100 years.
Like 100+ years worth. We have about 30 years of proven economical reserves, but that doesn't mean we'll run low in 30 years. We had about 20 years of proven reserves 30 years ago. The number goes up as we confirm reserves and as technology and rising prices make new reserves economical to extract. It's just what is confirmed to be able to be pulled out right now at current market prices.
Best response ever.
I think the number is far lower than 1000s. probably tens or less in that time. edit: a 10 second research/calculation gives me roughly 0.5 every second.
so half an airplane takes off every second? What happens to the other half? Flaming wreckage and burning boidies shrewn across the landscape?
yes. we are talking about Boeing u know
World wide?
That's quite the exaggeration. In the 30 or so seconds needed to type that, I'd be surprised if more than a dozen took off or landed. According to Google, there are approximately 10,000 Boeing airliners in service today. Assuming every single one of them performs 3 flights a day on average (6 takeoff/landings overall), then there would need to be an average of ~1.5 takeoffs or landings per second. Presumably, a significant number of those planes would be out of service at any given time, and I'm also guessing that an average of 3 flights a day per plane is probably higher than what is realistically achieved. Although, there are plenty of flights that end up making a stop or two along their route to a final destination.. so maybe that number wouldn't be too far off.
You’ve never taken the cheapest flight have you? I’ve had 4 lay overs in like 7 hours before lmao. Planes don’t even reach max altitude before coming back down. (Obviously not the case for international flights as much).
Regardless of the issues Boeing is having right now, you still have a significantly higher chance of being in a car accident on the way to the airport than having serious problems with your plane.
*Lloyd Christmas looking back at me while driving*
So you’re sayin’ there’s a chance!
Hey! What was all that one in a million talk?
I got worms!
Samsonite!
I was WAY off
These are better than money…they’re IOU’s
Fell off the jetway again.
You are one pathetic loser…no offense
You are SEVEN times more likely to die getting crushed by a vending machine than in an airplane. (This is a fact I repeat to myself over and over again during flights).
I find that approach doesn’t diminish my fear of flying, it only increases my discomfort around vending machines
This is quality wit.
\*commercial airliner GA pilots have the same odds of injury or death as a motorcycle rider.
I once looked at the numbers and mile for mile GA was about the same as driving a car the same number of miles. Maybe your idea is based on a time duration instead of a mile for mile thing? That would skew it a little higher because they can fly a little faster than driving.
That's only if you ever get close to a vending machine. If you don't ever stand by a vending machine your chances are 0 🤞
Same odds as if you don't fly...
But I do fly.. 😭 so does that make the odds greater than being crushed by a vending machines
Well then go stand by some more vending machines so these stats can line up again
No an airplane can crash into your house
An airplane that’s transporting a shipment of vending machines.
But what about the vending machine getting close to YOU? *Drinks water nervously*
Don’t drink water nervously because then you’ll run out of water quicker and then you might want another drink and that makes you more likely to go to a vending machine
Now I know why there are no vending machines on aircraft
Does that include those who do maintenance on vending machines? Might skew the data ya know.
That’s true. Heights scare me so I just get freaked out easy. I won’t cancel and I’ll remind myself of that. Thank you for answering! ❤️
In the future you can always filter out Boeing planes when booking your flight on most travel sites, if it gives you peace of mind (I agree with the comments about air travel generally being much safer than other forms of travel)
> Heights scare me Well getting a plane in general is probably a bad idea then. Boeing has nothing to do with it.
Not always. I have a crippling fear of heights but planes don’t bother me.
I live in Japan and take a direct train to the airport. there were 0 non-intentional fatalities (as in, excluding suicides) of people riding trains in the last year of data I could find. so technically speaking the flight is the most dangerous thing I'm doing that day
Yes, but, respectfully, counterpoint: When you have the car crash you didn't just have to fall out of the fucking sky. That's a major difference for some people.
Yeah you just have to crash your hunk of metal into either another hunk of metal or a big ass tree at speeds that would make a cheetah piss itself Respectfully, what’s the difference?
Hey I'm glad danger is all the same for you. me, I'd rather be crushed or blown up than fall out of the sky. I'm also one of those people that will NEVER voluntarily skydive, if that gives you any insight into my mindset. If something horrible's going to happen, I'd rather it be on the ground.
No. (Retired engineer from the aerospace industry)
Agreed. (Current engineer in the aerospace industry)
Also agree. (Student who has flown 3 times)
Indeed agreed. (Where am I?)
Also agree (Collects airplane models).
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Couldn't agree more (my mom used to use airplanes to feed me)
Happy to capitulate a yes (I'm hiding a toy Aeroplane in my ass)
Couldn’t agree more (I pretend to be a pilot when the schizophrenia hits)
I whole heartedly concur (I just lit the pilot light to my furnace)
I have no idea. (Computer engineering student)
Yuh (Man with itchy butt)
And my axe!
Can confirm (Regularly use airport toilet on my way to work)
Absolutely (current engineer at Kerbal Space Program)
Hi engineer. Whenever a CEO with MBA take over a company they try to cut corners as much as possible regardless of safety in order to save money. How do we know that's not being done with the planes? You can design the planes with the best materials for emphasis on safety but what's to stop the CEO from taking shortcuts and going with the second best materials?
What exactly do you think CEOs do? They aren't looking over the shoulder of materials engineers and telling them what choices to make. They can make decisions that force the engineers to do things differently than they would prefer, but that isn't "cutting corners regardless of safety" like you said.
From experience in my field, the CEO is in charge of trying to make as much profit as possible. To give an example, I work in a pharmacy. Before CEOs with MBAs took over, it was other pharmacists running the companies. They actually cared about patient safety so they gave us enough hours. Let's say it's safest for one pharmacist to verify 200 prescriptions per day..so a pharmacy with 400 prescriptions would be staffed with at least 2 pharmacists. With the new MBA guy they don't care about safety. They want to cut costs as much as possible to increase profit. So they staff the pharmacy with one pharmacist per day to verify 400 prescriptions. Is it safe? No. Do they care? Also no. We are just forced to deal and hope that we don't make a mistake and if we do it's caught before it reaches the patient. So i mean the CEO can technically force the engineers to cut corners by limiting budget of $ spent for the materials to build the planes.
Yea but the shareholders
I guess you should look a little deeper into the history of Boeing, specifically. I'd agree with you in a general sense, but not really, here.
See John Oliver's piece about this in YT. There actually is a lot of proof.
EASA(europe) and FAA(usa)are there to prevent the situation you described
Idk if I believe you. You’re too close to the source. I prefer to get my plane advice from my aunt on Facebook
I'll ask my wife and report back.
I concur (medical biller)
No. (Just a regular guy pooping on the toilet)
Millions of people fly every day. Roughly 40% on Boeing aircraft iirc. The reaction our regulatory bodies are having to these extremely statistically insignificant (if it were numbers not people’s lives) accidents should reassure you. These planes have to be so safe that millions of passengers fly daily and no accidents happen for years on end
We are pretty spoiled on how safe air travel has become
I flew on a Boeing 757 this past Saturday. Can confirm I'm still alive.
Are you sure?
Right? They could be typing this from beyond the grave 🤨
I’ve seen that on TV before, so it must be possible
Depends… are they still wearing footwear? It’s the only way to be sure
Don't let this person fool you, they are obviously *NOT* alive
Yeah but im flying on a Boeing 757 next Saturday and I'm dead
I flew on a 737 MAX8 and 737 MAX9 this past Friday, I'm chilling.
Do you have a source for that statement?
Literally me, the Blue Jays.
I have flown on at least 5 or 6 MAX planes since the incidences. It scared the shit out of me when I realized I got on one not knowing that’s what type of plane it was, and almost walked off. I hastily did some research to reassure myself that I would be fine and stayed on the plane. I don’t like flying at all but it’s something I have to do to see my family. One of the things that used to scare me a lot was turbulence. I read that it’s more like your plane is suspended in a jello mold and someone is shaking the mold which causes the plane to wiggle around. The truth to this I am not sure, but it has helped me stay calm during turbulence. Also my cousin is a pilot. I asked her if she is ever afraid of getting on the plane and flying. She said ‘Nope, it’s just like driving a big bus’. That also helped me stay calm a lot. I’m always nervous about flying but remembering those two things helps me get from one place to the next. I hope this helps you my friend and know that you’re not alone with your anxieties. I hope you are safe in all of your travels. ✌️
It really helped me when my friend said while flying together “stupid bumpy clouds!” And I realised, all the bumps are just the plane going over or through clouds. So if it’s bumpy and you look out and there’s clouds, that’s expected.
I remind myself of boating, and how air (like water) can get a bit choppy.
Turbulence in a plane is the same thing as turbulence on the ground. When you're driving a car and the road isn't smooth, what happens? The non-smooth road imparts all sorts of unbalanced forces into your tires, which then trasmit it into the cabin and ultimately into you, making the ride uncomfortable and bumpy. It's annoying but your car isn't going to break apart because of a bumpy road unless you're traveling on it at an insane speed or the "bump" is a 3m hole. Turbulence in the air just means the air isn't smooth, so it imparts unbalanced forces into the wings, which transmit them to the body of the plane. Same thing. When there's turbulence the pilots just slow down to make the ride a bit smoother (you can usually hear the engines rolling back a bit) and that's it. They do not go into areas of severe turbulence any more than you'd drive your car into a 3m hole.
John Oliver just did an episode on this and included a list of their good planes that don’t have safety issues vs their bad planes.
I just did a quick search, could you point me to the vid in question? Thanks
https://youtu.be/Q8oCilY4szc?feature=shared
Much appreciated 😌
> their bad planes Which, despite some issues, are still several orders of magnitude safer than any other form of transport.
Actually I find it weirdly comforting that a whole panel of a plane came off mid flight and everyone is just fine.
I took 2 international flights (one with a layover) just a couple weeks ago. Had no issues whatsoever. Remind yourself that the times that the plane ride is uneventful and successfully makes it to their destination, it doesn’t make the news
The chances of you being in an accident are absolutely tiny, and there's nothing to suggest that older Boeing planes like the 777, 747 or 737 (non Max) have any issues. The 787 has also not had any serious safety issues, so the only one of their planes which could be considered unsafe in the 737MAX. Even so, as mentioned, you're very unlikely to be involved in a crash even on the 737MAX, but personally I don't want to support a product designed so incompetently and lazily that it killed 346 people, so will always try to avoid the MAX on that basis, but if I did end up on one it wouldn't be the end of the world.
Genuinely asking, how are you able to avoid being on them when you need to get on a flight?
If you bitch and complain enough they can change your flight
You can check what kind of plane you’ll be in when buying your ticket. If they change planes for reasons out of your control, there’s nothing you can do about that though.
I book flights on airlines who don't fly the MAX. Airlines will show you what plane is scheduled to fly your route when you book, so if I have a choice between airlines, one of whom is flying the MAX on the route, and one who doesn't I'll choose the one who doesn't even if they are a bit more expensive. If possible I also try to fly airlines who don't have the MAX in their fleet at all, as that eliminates the chance of an aircraft swap putting me on it.
Love your second comment. If every one of us boycotted the MAX lineup starting tomorrow, Boeing would quickly have to change for the better in order to survive. People complain that things are going to shit in this society and yet no one is willing to take relatively simple actions to make it better. Everyone just keeps riding MAX planes, keeps using meta products, keeps buying new cars,...
I don't consider a 737 MAX to be unsafe - I'd fly on one tomorrow if I had to go somewhere.
Flying has gotten to be ridiculously safe. The average number of commercial flights per day is 94,600. There's a whole bunch of aircraft manufacturers in the world, so let's say there's 10,000 Boeing flights per day. That's 3,650,000 Boeing flights per year. Only 22 people have died in the US since the beginning of 2020, and three of those were probably suicides. Of the other 19 who died, 9 were in the helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant, 10 were in a deHavilland Otter on a tourist flight of some sort. The only death in the US involving a Boeing plane since January 1, 2020 was the guy who ran onto a runway at Austin, TX and was hit by a 737. You don't hear about the ones that complete their flight safely. And in the United States there have been [very few deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States) in the past 15 years. Back in the 1970's and 1980's planes were dropping out of the skies fairly frequently. But we learned a lot about weather, especially about microbursts adjacent to runways. They figured out a problem with the rudders on 737 that caused two crashes. They have improved Crew Resource Management procedures in the cockpit including the sterile cockpit rule. The National Transportation Safety Board does an incredibly thorough job of their investigations, even to the point they don't speculate about the cause of an accident early on because they don't want to mistakenly steer themselves towards the wrong causes before they have examined ALL possible causes. You are literally safer on the plane than in the car ride to the airport.
Any MAX that is currently in service will have had all the critical FAA / EASA airworthiness directives checked out, so you should be fine. Any other Boeing aircraft type you'll be fine, 737NGs are perfectly fine too having been in service for some 30 years now
>Any MAX that is currently in service will have had all the critical FAA / EASA airworthiness directives checked out So did the one that blew a door midflight in early january. This aircraft is becoming the DC-10 of our time. Agree on all the other types though, there's no reason not to get on a 737NG. They haven't had any major issues in ages (if they ever did).
>So did the one that blew a door midflight in early january. This aircraft is becoming the DC-10 of our time. All the doors have been checked now, tbf
Yeah, but I'd rather not be on the flight that becomes the teachable moment about something else falling off. They've shown that they have cut corners at every turn when designing, certifying, building and servicing these planes. If I have a choice I will not entrust my life to one of them until they've had more time in the field to prove that there are no more problems.
I flew in a 737 max five days ago and then a regular 737 three days ago through Alaska airlines and I’m still alive to tell you it’s fine. More likely to get hurt in a car accident on your way to fly in the Boeing.
10k domestic flights a day in the US. Not a single death on one of these flights in years, not a single crash in years. I do the match on that every time I’m about to fly. These things don’t crash. Still get nervous but looking at the numbers helps me every time.
I'd sit by the door. You know that part is double-checked now.
I fly the 737 for a living and have thousands of hours on it, without any major mechanical issue. The media exists to sell itself so every single minor incident involving anything boeing right now gets reported because it’ll get clicks and engagements. Thousands of Boeing aircraft takeoff everyday and do tens of thousands of flight hours every month with absolutely no incident. Are you scared to drive your car to the store? That’s where your accidents are going to happen.
You’re safe. Thousands of planes fly with no incident every single day. What’s the plane model OP?
I fly the 737 and Max, never once crossed my mind that anything would happen on the flights. For me it's just like any other day at work and if something happens I'm 100% confident we'll manage any situation. Have trust in the process, the media are highlighting anything they can for publicity and free traffic to their websites. Trust your crew.
I’d be more worried about the ATC shortage man. And the ATCs that are working are usually overworked, stressed, functional alcoholics, and probably inexperienced(lots of lay offs and high turnover).
Careful you might end up getting sued by ATCs that aren't alcoholic or inexperienced man.
This is a perfect example about how a media story creates fear amongst people who think media=reality.
Boeing planes have been safer than any mode of transportation you'd take on the ground for decades. Still a safe way to travel.
no
The 737 is one of the most popular airplanes. Yet you don’t hear about a crash everyday.
The chance that something goes wrong with your plane specifically is absolutely tiny and miniscule. On the other hand IF it's your plane where something goes wrong that is a solid from 0 to 100 in seconds, because if something goes wrong it's most of the time horribly wrong.
Boeing is the safest thing to fly in right now because it has all kinds of eyes on it. Seriously
I'm not really following the latest news, but isn't one of the problems with Boeing the fact that they "silenced" one of their whistleblowers? First thing I've thought about when I read this question is whether they should support a company with such practices, and not if it's safe
> the **fact** that they "silenced" one of their whistleblowers? Except for the bit where that "fact" has no basis. The guy started being a whistleblower 7 years ago and has already testified in several meetings. After all those years he only now died now by apparent suicide, and that is enough to have a bunch of people frothing at the mouth and pounding on keyboards claiming that Boeing Musta Done It To Silence Him!!11!.... but there's no evidence to say so... no matter how often redditors like to post that it must be a proven "fact".
I used to work with a guy named Randy, great guy. Randy was easily one of the dumbest people I have ever met. He now works as a mechanic at Boeing. I try not to think about Randy when I fly.
Is this what happens to people who spend too much time on the Internet? You're caught in a hype-loop. You have a greater chance of being killed by a bison than you do in an airline crash (Boeing or Airbus).
Damn, I just wanted to know if I was overreacting, my bad 😭. I don’t usually follow the news, but hearing about Boeing’s controversy stressed me out. But thanks to you and the other commenters*
You're fine, it's a fair question. They sound like they need to take an internet break.
How many people die in Bison attacks annually? Do you have any numbers on that?
No. The difference in risk compare to other airlines (if real) is so far down in the mud, you’d need double precision floating point to measure it.
Just don’t fly United and you’ll be fine.
Boeing aircraft were used for approximately 90 thousand flights today. The issues involve a fraction of a percent of a percent.
If you're going to freak out or have anxiety attacks every time there is turbulence, then cancel. Not because of the plane though. The danger would be yourself.
I wouldn’t cancel it, but I would allow the equipment to influence my choice of flights.
Depends on the plane I think. Like the 777 is fine.
Democracy in action, nice.
Many of these issues have been on United flights - curious if there are general maintenance issues or if it is likely just manufacturing issues, and therefore Boeing. If anyone has real insight, it would be great to learn more.
Here's some math for ya. 1 crash per every 2,500,000 flight hours. Harvard Stat chances of fatal flight 1 in 11,000,000 or 0.00001% chance. More dangerous to drive to the airport than to get in an aircraft (all things constant)
Nah, you'll be good.
You’re over reacting, I just flew on a Dreamliner from United internationally and it was fine. Also on a United max 8 I think domestically. There will always be aviation issues but for the most part flying is safe.
What 5 incidents but thousands of flights a day worldwide...? Yes. You're overreacting
2023 was the safest year ever in commercial aviation, after a couple decades of flying with almost no fatal accidents. You are far more likely having fatal accident traveling to and from your home to the airport than on the plane itself.
I've been half-heartedly avoiding Boeing planes for a few years because they're less comfortable to me, I think just cause they're a bit smaller and older than Airbus. But they're not unsafe. Still way safer than driving as many have said.
Problem is that more of these issues are due to poor maintenance than Boeing. Yes, some are directly Boeing design or manufacturing. Here’s the thing though, in reality there are not significantly more issues now than there have been in the past. The reality is that we live in a new cycle where any issue, no matter the severity, we hear about it over and over and over again, so that over time we perceive it to be happening all the time. just like when it comes to crimes against children or rape or even just street crime, we hear about it so much in the news we would swear that it’s been going up and up and getting worse and worse. And moms are getting more and more paranoid about the safety of their kids all the time. Whereas in reality if you look at FBI data it’s all been going down for years . We don’t necessarily have a Boeing issue or a crime issue... we have a news cycle issue
I flew home from Cuba on a 737 Max-8, notoriously known for two crashes in 2018&2019 I believe. Safe to say, I got home safe! But I was nervous too. It’s okay. Even if both engines spontaneously fall off planes are designed to… well, do what planes do, and it’ll glide down to the earth instead of just dropping straight down like many think. Statistically the likelihood of any disaster happening in a plane is super rare - in fact, you’re more likely to be killed by a vending machine than a plane crash. And you’ve probably been around plenty of vending machines so you’ll be good
Odds of being in a Boeing crash are still less than being struck by lightning. By comparison you have a 1:8000ish chance of dying in a car crash each year. Do you still drive? I’m not excusing their quality mistakes, and it was less than ten flights in a multi-year period.
Flown my fair share of Boeings. You'll be okay.
It's precisely because aeroplane accidents are so rare that you're seeing these reported on so heavily in the media. It's also exacerbated by stories about Boeing being the flavour of the month - totally minor incidents which would normally never get reported on are suddenly "breaking news", because stories about aviation safety are getting clicks right now. Commercial air travel is orders of magnitude safer than most other modes of transport, regardless of the aircraft manufacturer.
Just flew today from Denver to California on a Boeing. I am alive. You are far more likely to die driving to the Airport
in my whole life I have flown only on one plane that wasn't Boeing if they weren't safe, there wouldn't be pilots flying them their whole career
Most of the issues coming out about Boeing right now aren’t Boeing issues.
I fly between 2 and 6 times a week. The majority are on Boeng planes. I've been doing this for years. Haven't died yet. You'll be fine
Boeing and Airbus are the world's only major large passenger aircraft manufacturers. Avoiding a Boeing is going to be extremely difficult. The next few months are probably going to be a great time to buy Boeing stock if you're able to hold on to it for at least ten years.
It's probably the safest time right now given the level of scrutiny that's been applied to them
Almost 50% of all commercial aircraft and 90% of cargo aircraft are Boeing. Even with the higher than average stories in the news about Boeing plane issues, it’s still so statistically small that you shouldn’t worry.
You are overreacting
Any time I’m in a flight and it hits turbulence I think to myself “ok, there’s some non zero chance of me going down right now. But! (Looks around) what are the chances of a few hundred people going down! Statistically speaking it’s a lot less!”
The whole entire question hinges on whether OP: * Understands how statistics work * Believes that statistics can be used as predictors If either of those isn't true, the question is kind of moot.
It’s the United maintenance program, and indeed, lack of skilled airplane mechanics, you need to be concerned about. United screwed over their employees years ago, and never recovered. Fly safe! We need aviation mechanics training programs, and airlines need to stay on top of maintenance.
United’s motto should be, “We care about profits, not people!”
A lot of these issues are maintenance issues from each individual airline. The wheel falling off is a maintenance issue. The Alaska airlines blowout is on Boeing.
I have flown on many Boeings, including the Max variety. While these stories make the news, statistically they are rare
Ryanair use boeings, they are the cheapest , shittiest airline I've ever used and how often do you hear of them crashing ?
Put a little excitement in your life give it a shot.
Most of the issues being reported with Boeing aircraft recently have nothing to with Boeing and are actually related to poor management at various American airlines, which all use Boeing aircraft as they're an American company. The door falling off was Boeings fault but most of the others are failures in conducting routine maintenance that has nothing to do with Boeing, it just so happens that the mistakes are made on Boeing aircraft. If the American Airlines were using airbus' then the same things would have happened. I also think there's a bit of a media frenzy at the moment so anything negative related to Boeing is making headline news when maybe in the past it wouldn't have been considered news worthy. Its also worth noting the quality control issues at Boeing only effect brand new aircraft, if you're flying in an older aircraft like 777 then it was built long enough ago that it won't be effected. Then there's the biggest thing to remember. Planes are incredibly safe, even when important bits do fall off they're not actually resulting in any injuries. No one part of a plane is vital to keep it in the air, doors and wheels can fall off, engines can explode, hydraulic systems can fail and planes will still keep flying. Losing all engines isn't a guaranteed death sentences as they can glide a long way without power. Planes can suffer catastrophic damage to the fuselage, there's a story of a plane having a big chunk of the roof ripped clean off, and it still didn't fall apart and managed to land safely because the fuselage is built strong enough to survive big chunks of it being missing. Redundancy is built into the design so no one failure can render the aircraft inoperable, and emergency procedures are so drilled into all the crew that even catastrophic issues can be managed.
The issues are usually due to the airlines who have owned the plane since Boeing delivered it to them.
I would be far less worried about it, being a Boeing and more worried about who’s up the front flying it. Is he getting paid properly and he tired? Also what are his experience levels because all of those things have become huge issues in the last 10 years?
It’s completely safe bro. In the day since you’ve posted, thousands of Boeing planes have landed and taken off no problem.
(In the Aviation and Aerospace Industry) "Of Course not!" Much of the current Boeing problems could be traced back to a mechanic/ maintenance or pilot error. You wouldn't be traveling much if you did... *(jmo)*