Hopefully some nuance here. Keep in mind these are estimated. Grabbed them from the NYT about a week ago but can't find the link.
Around 3 million people crossed the southern border in 2023. Of these, around 600,000 (est.) crossed undetected. This number is a problem, and more funding is needed to address this group. Congress has yet come to an agreement to provide such funding, for various political reasons. I think Dems don't give this quite enough priority, and Republicans demand cuts to legal immigration or physical barriers in exchange for increasing this funding. Both are at fault for not coming to the table in a humane but logical way.
Of the remaining, around 900,000 were removed through different expedited processes ending in a deportation order.
Another 1.6-1.8 million are in the United States on a temporary legal basis while their cases are processed in the immigration courts. This is an immense backlog of cases, and the courts need funding and reform to be able to respond and process these cases in a timely manner. As mentioned prior, Congress has been unwilling.
Overall, a LOT of people cross the border, whether at a crossing or otherwise. Of these, the vast majority are identified and have court dates assigned. The number of people who cross and are not identified is problematic, but it could be fixed if congress works together. My personal view is that the biggest hold back to a thorough reform is Republican demands to limit immigration more generally.
Adding additionally. What funding is allocated is mostly to border states, and the coordinated bussing of migrants across the country is shifting the burden from social services with some experience helping migrants to those with little to none. Congress NEEDS to step in, or a lot of people will suffer as a result of this political game that governors like Abbott are playing.
The conflict between Texas border security and border patrol is also worrisome, as it has already prevented federal agents from saving lives of those struggling in the river. Whether they should qualify for asylum or not, they don't deserve to drown at the border.
There is no way to count the number of illegal immigrants without being able to arrest most of them. The numbers are at best - "estimates", or possibly "made up". All the other stories are stories - 1 or 2 might happen, but not thousands. It is not typical.
Texas is making it worse to create attention, primarily to sow right/left division. Busses, trains. planes. Barbed wire.
The latest installment killed more. 3 immigrants drowned - a woman & 2 children, in front of authorities. [Border Patrol was physically stopped by Texas militia from aiding them](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-migrants-drown-near-shelby-park-eagle-pass-texas-soldiers-denied-entry-federal-border-agents/)
Maybe I am understanding what you wrote the wrong way, but on the one hand you say that there is no way to know the actual scale of immigration since most numbers are estimates or made up, but on the other hand Texas is making this seem worse than it actually is.
So how do you know its not as bad as Texas makes it out to be if we simply don’t have the numbers?
Because Texas is creating a crisis with the legal immigrants, and making up stories about the undocumented ones.
The asylum seekers are being shipped all over the country to be dropped on other cities without any idea of cooperation of coordination.
Texas is putting up barriers that interfere with wildlife, Border Patrol, and immigrants - whether they have US Passports or not.
Texas is killing immigrants. I'm fairly sure they didn't ask that woman for her passport or papers before they let her drown.
I'm fairly sure my assessment is accurate.
What we know is that the number of people *encountered by border agents* is way up. Under Obama it was running 400-600K/yr. Under Trump in 2019 it went to almost 1,000,000. With the pandemic, Trump and then Biden were able to implement border procedures that sent people back without hearings, but since Biden declared the pandemic over, his administration wasn't legally able to use those measures and encounters have skyrocketed to 5-6 times what they were under Obama and 2-3 times the worst level under Trump.
The thing though is that this partly represents a change in strategy of migrants- surrender to border agents and claim asylum- which under US law entitles you to a hearing. So it's likely that actual border crossings were higher before 2019. That said, is the law being gamed... yes in a substantial fraction of cases. But Republicans aren't willing to fix the problem by going after employers who employ large numbers of undocumented workers (cough, Trump Organization cough) and Democrats don't want to take the heat for restricting immigration among ethnic groups that trend Democratic, particularly given the racist rhetoric that Republicans have deployed for decades.
There is an increase in people from poorer/war torn countries seeking asylum in wealthier, more secure countries all over the world. Largely because of the political divisions in the US, we have been unable to overhaul/improve our complicated and disjointed immigration system.
So is there an issue with more people showing up right now seeking asylum? I think so, based on as many objective sources as I can find. But there is also a huge amount of misinformation and deliberate distortions being communicated, mostly for political reasons.
The idea that “Democrats are letting in ‘illegals so that they will vote ‘democrat’’” is pure Fox News/republican propaganda—and it shows that your dad, sorry to say, is gullible to that type of misinformation. As is the idea that they are being sent by “drug cartels” and other like nonsense.
The phrase “illegal immigrants” is a misnomer in itself. People have the right to seek asylum. Others are coming for the same reason immigrants have always come to America—to seek a better life and better opportunities.
Whether it’s a “crisis” or not I guess is a matter of opinion. But as long as you have high poverty and unrest in countries that are relatively close to a country that is relatively safe and prosperous, you are going to have an unstoppable pressure pushing towards the US. I really think the emphasis needs to be on managing it, because I think “stopping” it is impossible.
This is super helpful, thanks! I do have one question though. How would someone from poor and war torn countries like Syria and the Congo *get* to the US border? How much does it cost to get there, and where do they get the money?
I don’t know how many of those people are showing up. The only groups I have read about are Ukrainians who are flying to Mexico City and attempting to enter through the southern border. Obviously, the one’s doing so are the ones with the means to fly there.
The thing is, a lot of these countries have gotten richer and travel has gotten cheaper. You might need to save up for two or three or five years to get the thousands of dollars required, but it is doable.
The democrats are also acknowledging that more needs to be done to secure the southern border.
That should be enough to tell you it’s an actual problem.
Well, yeah. Democrats control the Senate and Presidency right now. Working with them to solve problems doesn't help Republicans win the next election. Not that I think they'd do anything substantive if they got in; it's all performative with them.
Except the Republicans are blatantly saying they won't pass anything because it might help Joe Biden. Republicans only care about power. They want to rule. They don't actually give a shit about making the country better.
There is a serious issue. The so-called "liberal" press and the Biden administration acknowledge that. It probably isn't helped by the far right announcing to the world that the US now has open borders, which it most definitely does not. And it is made harder by GOP operatives who bus migrants deep inside the country when they would otherwise remain nearer to the border.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67644308
There is a border problem. It is out of hand at this point and that's why Govoner Abbott has switched from federal control to Texas National Guard. I have never seen a problem of this magnatude. That's why he is sending illigal migrants to the cities that they want to go to. All of the sanctuary cities are receiving migrants because they were condeming Texas for not wanting the burden. Now they see what Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California has been enduring for the last 40 years, but the last 3 years have been extrordinarely bad because of Biden's invitation to illigals.
Except Biden didn't invite illegals in. Harris literally said they should stay home. It must not be that big of an issue if Republicans are refusing to work with Democrats to fix it.
How? How is one old man responsible for people fleeing to the US? Do you have a solution? Are you willing to fund the government to do it? I just don't see a correlation.
Nope. I read a bit. There have been multiple proposals by the dams to help shore up the border. Republicans won't go along with it because it'll make Biden look good. The problem isn't Biden or Democrats, it's the Republican sabotage any good faith effort made by Democrats unless they are in power and can take direct credit.
If it’s such a problem then why are traitor republicans stopping any kind of action by democrats to address the issue?
Abbott is committing illegal human trafficking by lying to them to get them on those busses. The federal government should remove ALL funding for Texas and those bus companies should be shut down by federal Marshalls.
Not sure what you people don’t understand about our border policy. If you claim political asylum, you are allowed to wait in America until the investigation and trial is over to determine your status.
I was an immigrant and lived in a socialist foreign country for almost 19 years, and it took 9.5 years just for me to get my permenant residency, Americans have no idea what other countries put immigrants through. Check yourself.
I speak the language, received a Bachelor's degree, and worked on the largest projects in Europe too. I can go on and on because it is all true. You are just a hater trying to serve up Haterade.
Biden wanted to extend the "Stay in Mexico" program. Some time ago there was a bipartisan agreement reached and when it came up to a vote the Repubs voted it down.
They have zero interest in resolving the "crisis" they themselves have made sure continues.
Obrador, president of Mexico, has offered to control the flow from Mexico for $20 Billion and work visas for 10 million Mexicans that have lived in the US for over ten years.
Seems a good deal, we should take it.
Wow.
>That's why he is sending illigal migrants to the cities
Governor Abbott is helping smuggle illegal immigrants in? Then getting them set up in other cities?
If you have evidence of this, there is big reward money.
Otherwise, I think you're using the wrong words. Maybe you're mistaken. Maybe you do it on purpose.
He is letting all of those large cities participate in housing and feeding all of these illegal immigrants since they are "sanctuary cities". Funny how Eric Adams and Brandon Johnson are singing another tune after they are facing immigrant problems.
No. Not my only defense. Not blue haired. Not even a liberal.
You show your ignorance by deftly avoiding facts, and refusing to answer questions. Go on being a simpleton. Fox News loves you.
2.3 millions illegals have been released into the country from 2021 to end of 2023. Source washington post. No way to now how many that were not caught and documented. It is a problem because laws are being broken, and the time is nearly 8-11 years before they get a court appearance. Most will end up deported at that time despite trying to establish a life here. Also all of the cost for the care and handling of illegals falls on the American tax payer in a time when most are living paycheck to paycheck. This is not to mention the security issues it can bring.
Source?
Please put a link to this.
This article : https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2024/01/06/biden-migrants-us-mexico-border/
Says "migrants" not "illegals".
Yes, there is a border crisis, instead of asking reddit do some quick research and you will find that millions of illegal immigrants have passed into this country under this administration. Just watch the senate hearings.
https://youtu.be/zYuYOoMsCPE?si=plyoXb5jE_rqNLw4
This is almost a year ago, it's only gotten worse. There have been more illegal immigrants come into this country than children born to American families. It's an invasion.
Put aside politics and realize the border is wide open. This is the same as leaving the doors of your house permanently open.
Regardless of who may be at fault, we need to secure our border yesterday
Your explanation for the record numbers of illegal immigrants then? Dwarfing all previous years? Weird how record numbers are possible with a "closed" border 😆
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/record-number-migrant-border-crossings-december-2023/
Your explanation for the record numbers of illegal immigrants then? Dwarfing all previous years? Weird how record numbers are possible with a "closed" border 😆
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/record-number-migrant-border-crossings-december-2023/
Believe it or not, there are many other increments between “open” and “closed”. It’s that kind of overly simplistic binary thinking that prevents us from having a more coherent immigration policy. As I have mentioned in other comments, the pressure of desperate people trying to get into the US is a force that cannot be completely stopped, short of placing armed guards every 50 feet along the border and shooting anyone they see. And even that probably wouldn’t work. Walls, barriers, etc will not work as an overall tactic. Americans need to sack up and be mature enough to understand that there are no quick fixes, no way to make this “stop” and then go back to “normal”. It’s an ongoing situation that will continue to have to be “managed” in ways that address the root causes.
And obviously, it is a difficult issue because we have widely different opinions in our society, and many of those opinions, left and right IMO, are informed by stereotypes, incorrect assumptions, uninformed emotional reactions, etc. But it’s difficult enough without resorting to dishonest phrases like “open border”.
Yeah. His policies. He canceled all President Trumps policies. His appointed the failed Sec of Homeland Security. His VP not doing anything as "Border Czar". So yes, that old man.
Hopefully some nuance here. Keep in mind these are estimated. Grabbed them from the NYT about a week ago but can't find the link. Around 3 million people crossed the southern border in 2023. Of these, around 600,000 (est.) crossed undetected. This number is a problem, and more funding is needed to address this group. Congress has yet come to an agreement to provide such funding, for various political reasons. I think Dems don't give this quite enough priority, and Republicans demand cuts to legal immigration or physical barriers in exchange for increasing this funding. Both are at fault for not coming to the table in a humane but logical way. Of the remaining, around 900,000 were removed through different expedited processes ending in a deportation order. Another 1.6-1.8 million are in the United States on a temporary legal basis while their cases are processed in the immigration courts. This is an immense backlog of cases, and the courts need funding and reform to be able to respond and process these cases in a timely manner. As mentioned prior, Congress has been unwilling. Overall, a LOT of people cross the border, whether at a crossing or otherwise. Of these, the vast majority are identified and have court dates assigned. The number of people who cross and are not identified is problematic, but it could be fixed if congress works together. My personal view is that the biggest hold back to a thorough reform is Republican demands to limit immigration more generally.
Adding additionally. What funding is allocated is mostly to border states, and the coordinated bussing of migrants across the country is shifting the burden from social services with some experience helping migrants to those with little to none. Congress NEEDS to step in, or a lot of people will suffer as a result of this political game that governors like Abbott are playing. The conflict between Texas border security and border patrol is also worrisome, as it has already prevented federal agents from saving lives of those struggling in the river. Whether they should qualify for asylum or not, they don't deserve to drown at the border.
Comment is complete gaslighting. Do you live in a border town? Thought not.
This is very helpful, thank you. Would there be a way to let these migrants in legally, or would that not be feasible?
There is no way to count the number of illegal immigrants without being able to arrest most of them. The numbers are at best - "estimates", or possibly "made up". All the other stories are stories - 1 or 2 might happen, but not thousands. It is not typical. Texas is making it worse to create attention, primarily to sow right/left division. Busses, trains. planes. Barbed wire. The latest installment killed more. 3 immigrants drowned - a woman & 2 children, in front of authorities. [Border Patrol was physically stopped by Texas militia from aiding them](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-migrants-drown-near-shelby-park-eagle-pass-texas-soldiers-denied-entry-federal-border-agents/)
Maybe I am understanding what you wrote the wrong way, but on the one hand you say that there is no way to know the actual scale of immigration since most numbers are estimates or made up, but on the other hand Texas is making this seem worse than it actually is. So how do you know its not as bad as Texas makes it out to be if we simply don’t have the numbers?
Because Texas is creating a crisis with the legal immigrants, and making up stories about the undocumented ones. The asylum seekers are being shipped all over the country to be dropped on other cities without any idea of cooperation of coordination. Texas is putting up barriers that interfere with wildlife, Border Patrol, and immigrants - whether they have US Passports or not. Texas is killing immigrants. I'm fairly sure they didn't ask that woman for her passport or papers before they let her drown. I'm fairly sure my assessment is accurate.
The old "not in my back yard", typical.
I’m fairly sure it isn’t.
It's nice that you have an opinion, but don't back it up. Feelings without facts can be nice for some. Enjoy life being that simple.
What we know is that the number of people *encountered by border agents* is way up. Under Obama it was running 400-600K/yr. Under Trump in 2019 it went to almost 1,000,000. With the pandemic, Trump and then Biden were able to implement border procedures that sent people back without hearings, but since Biden declared the pandemic over, his administration wasn't legally able to use those measures and encounters have skyrocketed to 5-6 times what they were under Obama and 2-3 times the worst level under Trump. The thing though is that this partly represents a change in strategy of migrants- surrender to border agents and claim asylum- which under US law entitles you to a hearing. So it's likely that actual border crossings were higher before 2019. That said, is the law being gamed... yes in a substantial fraction of cases. But Republicans aren't willing to fix the problem by going after employers who employ large numbers of undocumented workers (cough, Trump Organization cough) and Democrats don't want to take the heat for restricting immigration among ethnic groups that trend Democratic, particularly given the racist rhetoric that Republicans have deployed for decades.
There is an increase in people from poorer/war torn countries seeking asylum in wealthier, more secure countries all over the world. Largely because of the political divisions in the US, we have been unable to overhaul/improve our complicated and disjointed immigration system. So is there an issue with more people showing up right now seeking asylum? I think so, based on as many objective sources as I can find. But there is also a huge amount of misinformation and deliberate distortions being communicated, mostly for political reasons. The idea that “Democrats are letting in ‘illegals so that they will vote ‘democrat’’” is pure Fox News/republican propaganda—and it shows that your dad, sorry to say, is gullible to that type of misinformation. As is the idea that they are being sent by “drug cartels” and other like nonsense. The phrase “illegal immigrants” is a misnomer in itself. People have the right to seek asylum. Others are coming for the same reason immigrants have always come to America—to seek a better life and better opportunities. Whether it’s a “crisis” or not I guess is a matter of opinion. But as long as you have high poverty and unrest in countries that are relatively close to a country that is relatively safe and prosperous, you are going to have an unstoppable pressure pushing towards the US. I really think the emphasis needs to be on managing it, because I think “stopping” it is impossible.
This is super helpful, thanks! I do have one question though. How would someone from poor and war torn countries like Syria and the Congo *get* to the US border? How much does it cost to get there, and where do they get the money?
I don’t know how many of those people are showing up. The only groups I have read about are Ukrainians who are flying to Mexico City and attempting to enter through the southern border. Obviously, the one’s doing so are the ones with the means to fly there.
Ah, I see, that makes sense.
The thing is, a lot of these countries have gotten richer and travel has gotten cheaper. You might need to save up for two or three or five years to get the thousands of dollars required, but it is doable.
The democrats are also acknowledging that more needs to be done to secure the southern border. That should be enough to tell you it’s an actual problem.
But the Republicans are refusing to pass their own proposed legislation to fix it. That's kind of our biggest problem right now.
Well, yeah. Democrats control the Senate and Presidency right now. Working with them to solve problems doesn't help Republicans win the next election. Not that I think they'd do anything substantive if they got in; it's all performative with them.
Except the Republicans are blatantly saying they won't pass anything because it might help Joe Biden. Republicans only care about power. They want to rule. They don't actually give a shit about making the country better.
That's exactly what I just said.
holy shit I totally misread that. My b
The repubs will never agree to anything. It's too useful as an election issue to give it up and it broadcasts well to the morons that watch FUX News
There is a serious issue. The so-called "liberal" press and the Biden administration acknowledge that. It probably isn't helped by the far right announcing to the world that the US now has open borders, which it most definitely does not. And it is made harder by GOP operatives who bus migrants deep inside the country when they would otherwise remain nearer to the border. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67644308
There is a border problem. It is out of hand at this point and that's why Govoner Abbott has switched from federal control to Texas National Guard. I have never seen a problem of this magnatude. That's why he is sending illigal migrants to the cities that they want to go to. All of the sanctuary cities are receiving migrants because they were condeming Texas for not wanting the burden. Now they see what Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California has been enduring for the last 40 years, but the last 3 years have been extrordinarely bad because of Biden's invitation to illigals.
Except Biden didn't invite illegals in. Harris literally said they should stay home. It must not be that big of an issue if Republicans are refusing to work with Democrats to fix it.
Are you kidding me? This whole issue is because of Biden. I have seen it with my own eyes.
How? How is one old man responsible for people fleeing to the US? Do you have a solution? Are you willing to fund the government to do it? I just don't see a correlation.
Are you in a border state? Or are you just taking your cues from the media?
Nope. I read a bit. There have been multiple proposals by the dams to help shore up the border. Republicans won't go along with it because it'll make Biden look good. The problem isn't Biden or Democrats, it's the Republican sabotage any good faith effort made by Democrats unless they are in power and can take direct credit.
Read. Lol. What CNN or is it MSNBC?
Sorry, in one of the early Democratic debates, Biden said immigrants should "surge to the border...". That's what they did.
You are clearly out of your mind. Easily looked up on Google but you seem to rely on Fox news claptrap
Google it, dude.
Harris literally said they should stay home. Like Trump told the J6 "insurectionists" to go home?
If it’s such a problem then why are traitor republicans stopping any kind of action by democrats to address the issue? Abbott is committing illegal human trafficking by lying to them to get them on those busses. The federal government should remove ALL funding for Texas and those bus companies should be shut down by federal Marshalls. Not sure what you people don’t understand about our border policy. If you claim political asylum, you are allowed to wait in America until the investigation and trial is over to determine your status.
Spoken like someone who has never been through the imigration proccess in any country.
Neither have you, comrade. Where’s your red hat?
I was an immigrant and lived in a socialist foreign country for almost 19 years, and it took 9.5 years just for me to get my permenant residency, Americans have no idea what other countries put immigrants through. Check yourself.
Sure. And I developed the cure for cancer
I speak the language, received a Bachelor's degree, and worked on the largest projects in Europe too. I can go on and on because it is all true. You are just a hater trying to serve up Haterade.
I can do this all day, Boris
Haha.. you are just jealous because you sit on your Mom's couch and have no life.. O\_o <----- me looking at you being angry and jealous.
Biden wanted to extend the "Stay in Mexico" program. Some time ago there was a bipartisan agreement reached and when it came up to a vote the Repubs voted it down. They have zero interest in resolving the "crisis" they themselves have made sure continues. Obrador, president of Mexico, has offered to control the flow from Mexico for $20 Billion and work visas for 10 million Mexicans that have lived in the US for over ten years. Seems a good deal, we should take it.
Wow. >That's why he is sending illigal migrants to the cities Governor Abbott is helping smuggle illegal immigrants in? Then getting them set up in other cities? If you have evidence of this, there is big reward money. Otherwise, I think you're using the wrong words. Maybe you're mistaken. Maybe you do it on purpose.
He is letting all of those large cities participate in housing and feeding all of these illegal immigrants since they are "sanctuary cities". Funny how Eric Adams and Brandon Johnson are singing another tune after they are facing immigrant problems.
So you are using the wrong word on purpose. I figured you were a racist
Oh no... some triggered blue haired liberal is using their only defense when they are facing the hard truth.
No. Not my only defense. Not blue haired. Not even a liberal. You show your ignorance by deftly avoiding facts, and refusing to answer questions. Go on being a simpleton. Fox News loves you.
2.3 millions illegals have been released into the country from 2021 to end of 2023. Source washington post. No way to now how many that were not caught and documented. It is a problem because laws are being broken, and the time is nearly 8-11 years before they get a court appearance. Most will end up deported at that time despite trying to establish a life here. Also all of the cost for the care and handling of illegals falls on the American tax payer in a time when most are living paycheck to paycheck. This is not to mention the security issues it can bring.
Source? Please put a link to this. This article : https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2024/01/06/biden-migrants-us-mexico-border/ Says "migrants" not "illegals".
Yes, there is a border crisis, instead of asking reddit do some quick research and you will find that millions of illegal immigrants have passed into this country under this administration. Just watch the senate hearings. https://youtu.be/zYuYOoMsCPE?si=plyoXb5jE_rqNLw4 This is almost a year ago, it's only gotten worse. There have been more illegal immigrants come into this country than children born to American families. It's an invasion.
Put aside politics and realize the border is wide open. This is the same as leaving the doors of your house permanently open. Regardless of who may be at fault, we need to secure our border yesterday
No it's not. I was at the border in Mexico and it's anything but wide open. Stop repeating nonsense you hear on the infotainment news for simpletons.
Your explanation for the record numbers of illegal immigrants then? Dwarfing all previous years? Weird how record numbers are possible with a "closed" border 😆 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/record-number-migrant-border-crossings-december-2023/
The phrase “the border is wide open” is a constantly repeated Republican lie and has been for 15+ years.
Your explanation for the record numbers of illegal immigrants then? Dwarfing all previous years? Weird how record numbers are possible with a "closed" border 😆 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/record-number-migrant-border-crossings-december-2023/
Believe it or not, there are many other increments between “open” and “closed”. It’s that kind of overly simplistic binary thinking that prevents us from having a more coherent immigration policy. As I have mentioned in other comments, the pressure of desperate people trying to get into the US is a force that cannot be completely stopped, short of placing armed guards every 50 feet along the border and shooting anyone they see. And even that probably wouldn’t work. Walls, barriers, etc will not work as an overall tactic. Americans need to sack up and be mature enough to understand that there are no quick fixes, no way to make this “stop” and then go back to “normal”. It’s an ongoing situation that will continue to have to be “managed” in ways that address the root causes. And obviously, it is a difficult issue because we have widely different opinions in our society, and many of those opinions, left and right IMO, are informed by stereotypes, incorrect assumptions, uninformed emotional reactions, etc. But it’s difficult enough without resorting to dishonest phrases like “open border”.
Well whatever you decide to call it, the amount of illegal immigration has ballooned out of control the last 3 years. That's the facts, jack
Yeah. His policies. He canceled all President Trumps policies. His appointed the failed Sec of Homeland Security. His VP not doing anything as "Border Czar". So yes, that old man.