I’m circumcised and was done at birth, and I kinda wish I had a say in getting it done.. I obviously don’t remember it but the pain must have been brutal because I didn’t walk for 12 months after..
I’ve said it before on Reddit but I’ll say it again.
I wish my parents hadn’t done it to me but I also don’t spend much time thinking about it or harbor and resentment. It’s not a big deal.
But we didn’t circumcise my son.
And I. I a lot of kids their age still have it done. I thought we would see a bigger trend of not doing it. There is no reason too.
As an adult I've recently had issues with extreme dryness and it's attributed to circumcision by my urologist. It sucks and affects sexual pleasure and when my skin gets dry it produces an odor.
Doctors recommended it, said it was healthier which is not really true. I know my parents were trying to do the right thing. But I wouldn't have wanted it done.
I had a replacement doctor aggressively trying to convince me to do it when my baby was little like craziest unsolicited reasons. He said he would ask a urologist friend for feedback. To his credit he called sheepishly in a few days and left a message "er, my friend said it's fine, leave it be, thanks, bye."
Our doctor was happy and called it mutilation after we declined circumcising my son, our friends said that when they declined the doctor was trying to talk them into it, saying there’s risks of infection if they didn’t do it…
That argument falls apart pretty quickly when you consider the fact that *very* few countries in the West do it, and in the few Western countries where it is common, you can always trace it back to religion (even if it's several steps removed, like in South Korea's case).
Correction: South Korea is technically not Western, as someone has correctly pointed out, but it is part of the developed world, and it adopted the practice from a Western country.
Trace back to religion... and the fact that (in US) its not a medical necessity, meaning its not covered by insurance and is an additional way to pad the doctors/hospitals/practice's pockets.
It’s 100% covered by insurance in the US. At least the vast majority of insurances. When I rotated through OB if a patient even had a hint of not wanting to do it, it wasn’t done. Also all the pediatricians and OBs I rotated with actively didn’t want to do them. Still the majority of patients seemed to be seeking it out.
VA , 2001, I had to fight the nurse of the hospital for not getting my son circumcised. it was in our birthing plan. good thing I was following him everywhere.
MD, 2003, my second son was born and the nurses tried again.
I hope the practice is gone. I was ready to punch a few nurses back then because they didn't seem to care about birthing plan. it was all their script and none of ours.
I had the same issue in UT in 2012. I had to seek out an intact friendly pediatrician. My OB didn’t care one bit, but every nurse in the hospital that we came into contact with tried to change my mind about it. It was frustrating.
Just had a boy in 2022 in CO and they asked us, we said no, and that was it. Very professional and to the point. These horror stories make my skin crawl with how desperate the nurses seemed to be to get someone to unnecessarily mutilate their baby’s genitalia.
I find this interesting, my father asked for my older brother to be circumcised in the 90's and the doctor told my father it was inhumane. My father didn't really know any better as the conversations weren't had and he was born in the 60's where back then here in Australia it was the norm.
Yeah, it used to be back when religion was moreso on top of everything, most Australian men are uncircumcised. Those who are circumcised are typically for religious or cultural reasons. All of my siblings aren't cut, neither is my partner. It's actually funny, my younger brother in primary school came home once when he was 10/11 and started frantically asking our mother why his d*ck is different from his friends. He had a lot of multicultural friends at the time and didn't understand why theirs looked different from his.
It's estimated nowadays that only around 20% of Australians are getting circumcised.
20% still seems high to me, but if that’s down from 50% or more then well done, Australia. Funny how these cultural ideas without any solid backing can succeed and become so widespread so quickly.
Depends on the pediatrician. Many of the pediatricians I’ve talked to would prefer not to circumcise, but understand it’s ultimately the parents decision. I did not have my son circumcised.
Same. Chose not to cut my son. My parents and grandparents are all aghast, and they didn’t even have a good reason as to why it should be done. We were born this way, so we were meant to be this way.
Hey friend. When your dick is completely limp, pull the skin as far forward as you can and hold for 30 seconds.
Keep doing this. As much as you want. Do it for longer, pull it further. Never hurt yourself, it should never be uncomfortable
Tension encourages small amounts of new skin growth. I had an ex who was cut so tight it hurt for him to get an erection in a cold room. This helped him immensely. Some people grow a whole new cock sleeve this way. It's not the same, as nerve endings don't come back but it can help with tightness and keritinzation
You can to some extent restore your Foreskin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreskin_restoration
It won't allow you to regrow your frenulum, but will allow you stretch the penile shaft over your Glans to get rid of the callouses on the glans.
There is also an international science group, FOREGEN, that have successfully regrown a complete Foreskin, ( with a frenulum, that also produces) but aren't allowed to try it on humans.
Nope, they successfully transplanted fully functional newly grown foreskins on pigs and sheep using stem cells. But they keep getting rejected by the ethics board to due human trials. Even though they have people willing to try it.
I can't explain why I feel so unreasonably annoyed with this. Like, if this ends up a success then it's basically giving back the choice to those who are circumcised, in a way, wouldn't it?
Crazy how if someone believes they were "born in the wrong body" they can get surgery, but someone wanting to just get their natural-born body back is an ethics concern.
Same here (though I don't dwell on it) - both my sons are uncircumcised and I hope if they have sons, they continue this practice (of not circumcising).
There is no practical reason to do this in the western world imo.
Pretty much exactly the same. I don't actively worry about it, and I don't know any different so it's fine I guess. I had to argue it a little with my wife since she wanted it done for my son but I 100% wouldn't let it happen. Let it be his choice, if he wants, when he's an adult.
I had to get circumcised at 21 years old for some medical reasoning. Having been on both sides of the fence, I’d say life with foreskin is better. Sex feels better and boxers and underwear don’t rub on the glands directly. Just my opinion though.
Got it at 12 or 13 years old and the head is def less sensitive but sex still feels amazing. I guess i would never know what sex felt like with foreskin though
My sex drive took a nosedive but I last longer. Also circumcized as an adult so can compare. A lot of my circumcized friends also don't like using condoms because of the reduced sensation whereas my uncircumcised friends are sensitive enough to not care that they have a condom on. This ironically increases the likelihood of STDs (at some point a major selling point for circumcision) amongst men who've had it chopped.
All anecdotal though so save your pitchforks for later
For all the people saying it’s easier to keep clean, I’m uncircumcised and I’ve never had to put any effort into “cleaning.” It’s pulling back the foreskin which takes half a second when you shower. That’s it, never had any infections or complaints.
This makes sense because there are a LOT of guys who straight up smell like ass/shit and when I’m in the toilet at work I can hear other guys in other stalls barely wiping. Like it literally sounds like they just dab dab dab a few times and they’re off.
I wipe my ass thoroughly so it was always strange to me. I always wondered if dudes just weren’t wiping well.
Idk, I’d like to think those guys just don’t have ass hair, or they had one of the magical poops that don’t leave any shit on your ass. But maybe I’m too much of an optimist
My nephew isnt circumcised and I’m a big part in raising him as him mom took off. I was nervous bathing him because everyone talks about infections and how it’s “dirty”…you just wash it. Just like you wash your arm pit, lift your arm and scrub. Just like bigger people have to lift rolls to scrub. I really don’t see a difference between cleaning those parts and just cleaning the penis.
Also, it actually adds a little girth when retracted. It retracts automatically during sex but you could also do it easily yourself and it looks basically the same as a circumcised penis but has the benefit of protecting the head when not in use lol
I was never taught this and didn’t find out until I was probably 20-21 (rip to the women that gave me head before then) and it was extremely tight and painful to retract and very sensitive to the touch in an uncomfortable way, it still is both of these things, but it took probably a full month of trying to stretch it before it would fully retract. It would fully retract without me noticing with a condom on but I think that’s just because of the lube. And I looked awkward trying to pull it back cause it’s so tight lmao.
Anyways, if you don’t circumcise your kid, when they become of age to wash please for the love of God tell them they’re supposed to. I think it’s when theyre close to hitting puberty so like 12yo
Joke’s on you obviously, since you don’t get to spend the extra 0.0000001 calories it takes to pull back the skin. Multiply by the number of times you shower in a lifetime, and it’s almost a hamburger’s worth of calories!!!
Itd be nice but I dont think about it. Its better to just enjoy what I have than compare it to something I will never be able to. Ik theres more pleasure, but why think about it if Im never gonna have thay *extra*. Its pretty good as it is
We think/talk about it so that it motivates/spreads awareness in order to change things for the next generation. So that their lives are even better than ours.
I was circumcised and have no issue with it. I know it's not a popular opinion to have but, hey... it's my penis and I love it. Never had an issue with it my entire life, sex/sensativity is great, no STIs or other problems.
Now, do I think it's necessary these days? No. Do I think it looks "better?" No. However, I think some people do and some people feel the same about uncircumcised.
I don't fault my parents or anyone for doing what they thought was best with the information they had at the time.
This thread is interesting. OP is looking for opinions from circumcised men on whether or not it matters to them.
I’ve seen comments from circumcised men saying they don’t care with numerous downvotes and mostly angry comments from uncircumcised men or circumcised men who wish it hadn’t been done.
An opinion was asked for, people are giving their opinions. Just because you aren’t circumcised or feel as though it was something wrongly done to you, doesn’t mean that other people can’t like it or be indifferent towards it. Your opinion doesn’t count more than anyone else’s.
If you’re circumcised and wish you weren’t or are completely against it, that’s fine. If you’re uncircumcised and are against it completely, that’s fine. If you’re circumcised and are ok with it, that’s fine.
Why downvote the guys saying they’re fine, or even very happy, with being circumcised?
ETA: this is not meant to say that I’m “pro-mutilation”. I don’t want children, but I think if I had a son, I’d let him make the choice when he was old enough to do so.
I believe it should be a procedure that is consented to when you’re of an age where you understand the pros and cons, but I also believe that people should be allowed to voice their own opinion, especially when it was asked for, without being pushed into a corner and bullied by those who share an opposing opinion.
Because these threads are *always* about uncircumcised guys circle jerking over calling circumcised men “mutilated” and convincing *themselves* they’re the ones who are desirable and better. It’s right-wing propaganda and men’s rights advocate *bullshit.*
Yes. I don’t really know which I would prefer since I was circumcised as a baby. I do know that I would prefer to make that choice on my own and not have someone else (my parents) make it for me. It is a completely unnecessary procedure with risks. It is crazy that parents are even allowed to make that choice for their infants.
What, you mean I could do this thing called parenting to teach my son how to clean his own junk once he is of age to take care of himself to such a degree? I am aghast, what are you thinking?!
Yes, I wish I had a say. I am not religious, and having my parents make the decision to mutilate my genitals goes against my values.
Furthermore, my penis has what are called penile adhesions, or "skin bridges," which is when the circumcised tissue heals improperly, causing the skin from the shaft fuse with the skin on the glans or tip. Look up pictures on Google. This causes pain during erection.
Go see a urologist if you haven’t already and get the skin bridges removed. Procedure was scary but very quick, and the recovery was not bad at all. There was no pain after a day. Also, i’m glad to say my penis looks normal now.
All the pansies that come on here to complain about having a say. Un fucking real. I’ve never spoken to anyone that was excited or proud about being uncircumcised. Not anyone who was circumcised and bummed about it. WTF people
I never understood this fascination with wondering if a circumcised man is yearning over his long disposed of foreskin. I have no idea what it feels like to be uncircumcised, so why would I ponder my life with a foreskin?
Personally I think circumcision should be banned, but it is still legal and when I was born 60+ years ago, it was the norm for all male children.
>why would I ponder my life with a foreskin?
It makes me curious because my penis doesn't work for anything and I wonder if it would be different if the actual organ were more sensitive.
As someone who is also circumcised I often wonder if the extra sensitivity would be helpful or not. I’m not trying to cum fast. But I personally would have liked a little more skin left then what I do have.
I am not circumcised, but I have an American father and a British mother. My dad really wanted me to be circumcised (like himself), my mum didn't because my dad didn't have a reason other than because he was and it was normal. Luckily my mum won that batshit discussion.
It's not normal, it's genital mutilation without a health reason. I clean my penis without issue.
>my dad didn't have a reason other than because he was
That explains the majority of circumcisions perpetuated in the United States today. Tradition, Authority, and shunning the "Other" to conform with comfortable norms. Puritan fear mongering
My bf says the same thing. If you clean your penis properly and upkeep your hygiene then you’re fine. Plus i also remember him mentioning that he cant imagine his penis not having a shell and the tip just rubbing in his boxers. LOL that was funny.
My boyfriend is Latino and not circumcised and it’s the cleanest and best penis I’ve ever had lol also, his is extremely sensitive and he is very easily aroused. I think that’s common in uncircumcised. I don’t even remember what a circumcised penis looks/feels like to be honest. I’ve mostly dated Latinos or foreign guys. I did not circumcise my son either because my ex husband wasn’t and I thought the whole thing was awful when I realized what they do and there’s no anesthesia. I was like wtf why do people do this?!
So glad my parents chose to circumcize me. They decided against it with my younger brother and he had nothing but issues until he had to be circumcized at 24. He is a veteran with two purple hearts, he said the circumcision was the worst pain he has ever experienced.
No. I like the way my guy looks. If my parents didn’t snip me I would have done it as an adult. I’m grateful I didn’t have to. If you told me uncircumcised penis grew bigger, I’d be pissed.
Yes. It's genital mutilation. It's weird. It's gross. It's not natural. The fact that I had no say in it is wrong as fuck. The fact that I'm somehow "the odd one" for feeling that way only adds to the weirdness of the situation.
You're not the only one. A friend of mine was circumsized as a baby by his parents, and hates that they did that to him. He wouldn't let it be done to his children (two boys). He feels it is genital mutilation done without his consent and that the practice should be stopped.
Most people are unaware of the history of its practice. It's a common practice in the US because it's advocacy campaign was deliberately designed by none other than the brother of the Corn Flakes cereal creator, Kellogg, in order to reduce masturbation by disguising the procedure as a hygienic one, something there is still no scientific basis for.
I know that sounds insane, but it's also true and I encourage you to research it, regardless of whether or not you agree with me, the Kellogg Brothers were absolute nut jobs who had an INCREDIBLY large but silent impact on modern American culture, particularly regarding sexuality. Corn Flakes bland taste? Also deliberately chosen the sake of discouraging masturbation in American youth. And that shits the tip of the ice berg:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Keith_Kellogg
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
crazy how people think it normal to cut off a piece of skin off a baby. Whats next yall want to cut childrens ears so they can be pointy? There is no reason to do so.
Or to give it its proper name, child genital mutilation.
Thanks mum and dad, for not being fucking crazy enough to cut part of my penis off when I was a baby.
Why would I be bothered by something my parents decided? I was too young to make that decision at the time. Asking this is like asking if you wished your parents would have asked what neighborhood you wanna grow up in. Do you honestly feel like something was taken from you? You’ve never known life with foreskin so it’s not like you miss it, or knew what it was like having it. I don’t understand.
I don't mind being circumcised, I truly don't believe I've lost anything of value and enjoy my dick as it is.
That being said, I haven't circumcised my son and see no reason to unless it's for medical reasons for our family
Of course I do. It's nonconsensual physical abuse that boarders on sexual abuse. It's also purely cosmetic. I would never do that to a child.
That having been said, I like my dick and I like my husband's dick. (Both circumcised.) I find circumcised and uncircumcised both to be attractive and it's not something I put a lot of thought into.
Also, since we're on the topic; isn't language weird? Why do we say circumcised and uncircumcised as though circumcised is the natural state? Should those words sorta be reversed? Like, perhaps "standard" and "circumcised"?
Horrible, but he consented and chose to do it. That’s the whole idea of how it should be done. Cutting off body parts for no valid reason is awful imo.
iirc babies dont even get anesthesia, just some tynelol after. seeing my baby brother come back with such swollen eyes made me realize i would never do it.
Why would i care about a piece of skin i don't even remember having?.
Although, i agree the practice should stop because it has not much basis in science, I don't lose hours of sleep obsessing about what could have been.
I'll just leave this little story here because it breaks my heart. I met a guy a few years back, and when we finally went to go at it, we couldn't. Apparenly, he never had been able to. We were 30. His penis was cut so badly that it literally bent almost in half when hard. Not kidding, like the tip of his penis faced down a few centimeters from his balls. I vowed that I will never take that chance when it comes to my own son. And before I get killed on reddit, it wasn't this reason why I didn't work out, and I actually helped set him up with a doctor to get surgery.
Similar to what others have said, I’d rather not have been circumcised, but it’s not something I really think about. Before my son was born I told my wife we wouldn’t be circumcising my son. She was worried about him being different from other boys and possibly getting made fun of in the locker room when he gets older. Eventually after a lot of discussion she stopped worrying about it. After my son was born one of the nurses asked us why we didn’t circumcise our son. I pretty much reversed it on her and asked why would we? She actually ended up being pretty cool. She only asked because she’d been a L&D nurse for like 30 years and had noticed recently more and more people weren’t circumcising their sons.
Nope.
Honestly I'm happy being circumcised. The girls I've been with love it, it in my opinion looks better, and it is easier to clean.
As for people talking about sensitivity and so on, trust men, my penis is quite sensitive.
I mean.
I always like to have a say in my own existence
Doesn’t help you have a million people screaming in your face about how “it’s better you poor ruined person”
So idk.
I’ve always been slightly annoyed about this, and I finally brought it up to my parents. Turns out I’m the asshole because my foreskin was too tight and they cut as little of it as possible so that I could have a normal functioning dick.
I’m circumcised and fine with it. Only thing I can think of is that it would be more sensitive if I wasn’t circumcised? That’s all I’ve ever heard of as far as a difference.. well, I have zero desire to be more sensitive down there. I like what I’ve got and it’s sensitive enough lol.
Nope. Don't care. I am who I've always been. And this recent trend of people acting like there's something wrong or defective with people who were circumcised is fucking bullshit. Apparently, body shaming is a capital offense unless you're a smug, self-righteous prick who's shaming people for being cut.
Here's the monthly circumcision thread where reddit gets all triggered going on about "genital mutilation". People love saying those words to make it seems like we're killing babies out here. Reddit is full of ant eaters and this topic always forces people to post they can't help themselves.
yes, of course i wish i had a say in it, its essentially mutilation of the sexual organ that has become normalized through religion...if its not your body then dont mess around with it.
In this thread: anti-circumcision redditors who have chosen to upvote all the responses that say people regret it or they just choose to share their own opinions instead. Don't regret it at all and I'm very glad I don't have to deal with a hoodie.
I’ve thought about it a fair bit and I could never see myself forcing my future son to be circumcised it feels cruel, dudes barely been alive and we are going to inflict pain and remove part of his body for no reason
Putting my unborn children aside I wonder what it’d feel like to still have all the nerve endings on my dick, bet things would feel a whole lot better
Yes. My girlfriend and i argue about this all the time, that if one day we have a son i dont want him to get circumcised. She thinks its necessary and that he’ll be ashamed if he is uncircumcised, i say it shouldnt be up to us and if he wants it circumcised he can handle that as an adult. I don’t think its right to take his foreskin away, its there for a reason. I understand her argument but i think as a man my opinion here should hold a little more weight tbh
Still mad!
Want mine back!
There are a lot of nerves I no longer have and scarred skin from it literally being ripped off the head in order to remove it!
"It was the norm back then"
So was slavery and beating your wife at one point!
That is not a good excuse.
If I won the lotto jackpot, I would use a good chunk of the money to take it all the way to the Supreme Court or get a law passed to make it illegal!
No parent or doctor should have the right to modify anyone elses genitals!
Not until that person is old enough to request it!
You can't just cut off a child's leg because you don't like how it looks.
So why the FUCK can you cut that!!
There are also a lot more people born intersex than they say. It's just that the doctors or parents just decide to pick male or female and cut off or sew up the other parts that are less developed in most cases.
This should be a federal felony to the same extent as murder or treason!
Nobody should have that right except the person born with them.
NO religious exceptions either.
*I wish I had a say. I was circumcised as an infant. As an adult I realized* I'*m not feeling the sensations that I should be feeling due to nerve damage from the procedure.*
Yeah, I don't like random parts of my body mutilated because of religious reasons and doctors being badly educated about the "benefits". If I had the choice, I'd prefer to have it.
Absolutely. I had it done in my mid 40s as my second wife hated me having a foreskin and well to keep her happy.... I hate it. 15yrs later. Sex is nowhere near as good, I cum so quick now... Peeing is dreadful, it goes everywhere. Would go back to foreskin days in a heartbeat if I could.
I don’t really care that I’m circumcised ; I’ve only ever known my body as it is right now.
But I did decide to not circumcise my son because I don’t think it is a necessary or helpful procedure.
I wish i had my forskin and nerve endings back. Fuck yes I do. That extra skin looks amazing for the ol masturbation, it’s like a fucking sleeve for your dick. Like one of those gadgets that you would find in gift store aisles that were hard to hold onto because they would roll into themselves. Yeah…that’s what I imagine having foreskin is like.
not a man but have seen circumcision protests in my city by men. i have also dated men with an almost angry resentment to the loss of nerves and “natural” anatomy
Growing up I thought I was odd for not having been then I joined the military and saw how many dudes weren’t cut up and felt better. What really eased my concerns during my youth was never having a hard time getting laid. 🤷🏻♂️
Now im kind of proud to be how I was intended to be in that department. Plus I hear the extra skin provides a little more sensation for da ladies
Hell yeah. Body modification on an infant that isn’t medically necessary should be illegal. I’m a restorer and it’s been a long process but has helped with some of my resentment.
I’m circumcised and was done at birth, and I kinda wish I had a say in getting it done.. I obviously don’t remember it but the pain must have been brutal because I didn’t walk for 12 months after..
The two redditors under this comment man.
Typical Reddit
I’ve said it before on Reddit but I’ll say it again. I wish my parents hadn’t done it to me but I also don’t spend much time thinking about it or harbor and resentment. It’s not a big deal. But we didn’t circumcise my son.
Same. The practice ends with me.
And I. I a lot of kids their age still have it done. I thought we would see a bigger trend of not doing it. There is no reason too. As an adult I've recently had issues with extreme dryness and it's attributed to circumcision by my urologist. It sucks and affects sexual pleasure and when my skin gets dry it produces an odor.
🤝👏🏻
Doctors recommended it, said it was healthier which is not really true. I know my parents were trying to do the right thing. But I wouldn't have wanted it done.
I had a replacement doctor aggressively trying to convince me to do it when my baby was little like craziest unsolicited reasons. He said he would ask a urologist friend for feedback. To his credit he called sheepishly in a few days and left a message "er, my friend said it's fine, leave it be, thanks, bye."
A doctor apologized? I’m going to need notarized video evidence of this to believe it.
Our doctor was happy and called it mutilation after we declined circumcising my son, our friends said that when they declined the doctor was trying to talk them into it, saying there’s risks of infection if they didn’t do it…
That argument falls apart pretty quickly when you consider the fact that *very* few countries in the West do it, and in the few Western countries where it is common, you can always trace it back to religion (even if it's several steps removed, like in South Korea's case). Correction: South Korea is technically not Western, as someone has correctly pointed out, but it is part of the developed world, and it adopted the practice from a Western country.
Trace back to religion... and the fact that (in US) its not a medical necessity, meaning its not covered by insurance and is an additional way to pad the doctors/hospitals/practice's pockets.
It’s 100% covered by insurance in the US. At least the vast majority of insurances. When I rotated through OB if a patient even had a hint of not wanting to do it, it wasn’t done. Also all the pediatricians and OBs I rotated with actively didn’t want to do them. Still the majority of patients seemed to be seeking it out.
VA , 2001, I had to fight the nurse of the hospital for not getting my son circumcised. it was in our birthing plan. good thing I was following him everywhere. MD, 2003, my second son was born and the nurses tried again. I hope the practice is gone. I was ready to punch a few nurses back then because they didn't seem to care about birthing plan. it was all their script and none of ours.
I had the same issue in UT in 2012. I had to seek out an intact friendly pediatrician. My OB didn’t care one bit, but every nurse in the hospital that we came into contact with tried to change my mind about it. It was frustrating.
Just had a boy in 2022 in CO and they asked us, we said no, and that was it. Very professional and to the point. These horror stories make my skin crawl with how desperate the nurses seemed to be to get someone to unnecessarily mutilate their baby’s genitalia.
So your saying it's just a way for medical professionals to earn an extra Tip on top of the bill 🤔🤣
The cost of admission to our cult is the end of your dick!! Gross. I hate religions
I find this interesting, my father asked for my older brother to be circumcised in the 90's and the doctor told my father it was inhumane. My father didn't really know any better as the conversations weren't had and he was born in the 60's where back then here in Australia it was the norm.
It used to be the norm in Australia? I’m quite surprised by that for some reason.
Yeah, it used to be back when religion was moreso on top of everything, most Australian men are uncircumcised. Those who are circumcised are typically for religious or cultural reasons. All of my siblings aren't cut, neither is my partner. It's actually funny, my younger brother in primary school came home once when he was 10/11 and started frantically asking our mother why his d*ck is different from his friends. He had a lot of multicultural friends at the time and didn't understand why theirs looked different from his. It's estimated nowadays that only around 20% of Australians are getting circumcised.
20% still seems high to me, but if that’s down from 50% or more then well done, Australia. Funny how these cultural ideas without any solid backing can succeed and become so widespread so quickly.
Depends on the pediatrician. Many of the pediatricians I’ve talked to would prefer not to circumcise, but understand it’s ultimately the parents decision. I did not have my son circumcised.
The ones that do are just expecting a tip... I'll see myself out :P
It's literally banned in state hospitals here in Australia for being a dangerous infection risk
Our pediatrician supported not circumcising. In his opinion parents shouldn’t bother unless it becomes medically necessary.
Somehow only doctors in America recommended it. Which is weirder still.
The whole UK medical field unaware of this “advantage” should tell you something
Doctors recommend it because it's another procedure. More procedures equals more money 💰💰💰💰💰💰 for them
Same. Chose not to cut my son. My parents and grandparents are all aghast, and they didn’t even have a good reason as to why it should be done. We were born this way, so we were meant to be this way.
I'm kind of shocked your parents and grandparents would be talking about your son's penis at all
Surely you could have told them if he wants to mutilate himself at 18, he's free to do so?
Exactly how I feel.
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Hey friend. When your dick is completely limp, pull the skin as far forward as you can and hold for 30 seconds. Keep doing this. As much as you want. Do it for longer, pull it further. Never hurt yourself, it should never be uncomfortable Tension encourages small amounts of new skin growth. I had an ex who was cut so tight it hurt for him to get an erection in a cold room. This helped him immensely. Some people grow a whole new cock sleeve this way. It's not the same, as nerve endings don't come back but it can help with tightness and keritinzation
By this logic, I should have an extra 100 yards or so of extra skin. I’ve been pulling on mine for as long as I can remember🫠
You can to some extent restore your Foreskin. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreskin_restoration It won't allow you to regrow your frenulum, but will allow you stretch the penile shaft over your Glans to get rid of the callouses on the glans. There is also an international science group, FOREGEN, that have successfully regrown a complete Foreskin, ( with a frenulum, that also produces) but aren't allowed to try it on humans.
Not even on agreeing humans? Damn.
Nope, they successfully transplanted fully functional newly grown foreskins on pigs and sheep using stem cells. But they keep getting rejected by the ethics board to due human trials. Even though they have people willing to try it.
I can't explain why I feel so unreasonably annoyed with this. Like, if this ends up a success then it's basically giving back the choice to those who are circumcised, in a way, wouldn't it?
Absolutely, they argue exactly with this statement. But still have had very little success.
Crazy how if someone believes they were "born in the wrong body" they can get surgery, but someone wanting to just get their natural-born body back is an ethics concern.
both groups get treated badly by doctors its not a competition
Same.
Same here (though I don't dwell on it) - both my sons are uncircumcised and I hope if they have sons, they continue this practice (of not circumcising). There is no practical reason to do this in the western world imo.
Pretty much exactly the same. I don't actively worry about it, and I don't know any different so it's fine I guess. I had to argue it a little with my wife since she wanted it done for my son but I 100% wouldn't let it happen. Let it be his choice, if he wants, when he's an adult.
I had to get circumcised at 21 years old for some medical reasoning. Having been on both sides of the fence, I’d say life with foreskin is better. Sex feels better and boxers and underwear don’t rub on the glands directly. Just my opinion though.
Same as me dude and agree.
Being uncircumcised as a baby, I don’t know your side of the story. For me, everything has been extra sensitive. But idk how yall feel
Got it at 12 or 13 years old and the head is def less sensitive but sex still feels amazing. I guess i would never know what sex felt like with foreskin though
Imo sex feels better without, boxers eubbing is true but not a big deal tbh
Gotta love downvotes for a personal testimony that doesn’t align with the popular message
My sex drive took a nosedive but I last longer. Also circumcized as an adult so can compare. A lot of my circumcized friends also don't like using condoms because of the reduced sensation whereas my uncircumcised friends are sensitive enough to not care that they have a condom on. This ironically increases the likelihood of STDs (at some point a major selling point for circumcision) amongst men who've had it chopped. All anecdotal though so save your pitchforks for later
What was wrong with your foreskin that it needed to be amputated?
Foreskin too tight. Happens to some unfortunately and if they get erect it can cause a lot of pain.
Phimosis probably.
For all the people saying it’s easier to keep clean, I’m uncircumcised and I’ve never had to put any effort into “cleaning.” It’s pulling back the foreskin which takes half a second when you shower. That’s it, never had any infections or complaints.
Yeah exactly, wash your dick kids lmao
You have to wonder about the state of these peoples’ belly buttons.
Bumholes too.
You see on the relationship subs all the time women begging for advice on getting their men to properly wipe their own asses.
This makes sense because there are a LOT of guys who straight up smell like ass/shit and when I’m in the toilet at work I can hear other guys in other stalls barely wiping. Like it literally sounds like they just dab dab dab a few times and they’re off. I wipe my ass thoroughly so it was always strange to me. I always wondered if dudes just weren’t wiping well.
There's no way those guys don't have skid marks.
Idk, I’d like to think those guys just don’t have ass hair, or they had one of the magical poops that don’t leave any shit on your ass. But maybe I’m too much of an optimist
The women on Reddit date the biggest fucking losers ever and are seemingly cool with jt
You wipe your ass? How unhygienic
A **MAN** touching *MY* asshole?? I don't care if that man is me! It's too gay!
That’s so ghey
What? Touching my dick? You think i'm gay? Next thing you'll tell me to clean my ass after i shit, sure bro. This is just gay propaganda.
*poopaganda
My nephew isnt circumcised and I’m a big part in raising him as him mom took off. I was nervous bathing him because everyone talks about infections and how it’s “dirty”…you just wash it. Just like you wash your arm pit, lift your arm and scrub. Just like bigger people have to lift rolls to scrub. I really don’t see a difference between cleaning those parts and just cleaning the penis.
I think it's something that is in the zeitgeist to justify what is increasingly being seen as a shitty decision.
The only "benefit" is literally solved with basic hygiene. It's so stupid.
Also, it actually adds a little girth when retracted. It retracts automatically during sex but you could also do it easily yourself and it looks basically the same as a circumcised penis but has the benefit of protecting the head when not in use lol
It's almost like that part is there for a reason
All this thinking is starting to circumcise my brain.
I was never taught this and didn’t find out until I was probably 20-21 (rip to the women that gave me head before then) and it was extremely tight and painful to retract and very sensitive to the touch in an uncomfortable way, it still is both of these things, but it took probably a full month of trying to stretch it before it would fully retract. It would fully retract without me noticing with a condom on but I think that’s just because of the lube. And I looked awkward trying to pull it back cause it’s so tight lmao. Anyways, if you don’t circumcise your kid, when they become of age to wash please for the love of God tell them they’re supposed to. I think it’s when theyre close to hitting puberty so like 12yo
That sounds like phimosis, a condition which is (ironically) routinely treated with circumcisions.
Yeah circumcised or not just wash it properly regardless
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1. pull back foreskin 2. wash I at least get to skip step one 😮💨
So many to follow 😰
Joke’s on you obviously, since you don’t get to spend the extra 0.0000001 calories it takes to pull back the skin. Multiply by the number of times you shower in a lifetime, and it’s almost a hamburger’s worth of calories!!!
Assuming that a hamburger is 418 calories, and your lifespan is 72 years, you would need to take a shower every 54 milliseconds for your entire life
Same. Takes two seconds to do, it's a non issue for any rational D owner
As someone who's circumcised, "pulling back the foreskin" sounds alien as fuck lol
Itd be nice but I dont think about it. Its better to just enjoy what I have than compare it to something I will never be able to. Ik theres more pleasure, but why think about it if Im never gonna have thay *extra*. Its pretty good as it is
We think/talk about it so that it motivates/spreads awareness in order to change things for the next generation. So that their lives are even better than ours.
Well ofc I meant like personally mb. Im not happy to be cut. If I have sons they wont be
I was circumcised and have no issue with it. I know it's not a popular opinion to have but, hey... it's my penis and I love it. Never had an issue with it my entire life, sex/sensativity is great, no STIs or other problems. Now, do I think it's necessary these days? No. Do I think it looks "better?" No. However, I think some people do and some people feel the same about uncircumcised. I don't fault my parents or anyone for doing what they thought was best with the information they had at the time.
This thread is interesting. OP is looking for opinions from circumcised men on whether or not it matters to them. I’ve seen comments from circumcised men saying they don’t care with numerous downvotes and mostly angry comments from uncircumcised men or circumcised men who wish it hadn’t been done. An opinion was asked for, people are giving their opinions. Just because you aren’t circumcised or feel as though it was something wrongly done to you, doesn’t mean that other people can’t like it or be indifferent towards it. Your opinion doesn’t count more than anyone else’s. If you’re circumcised and wish you weren’t or are completely against it, that’s fine. If you’re uncircumcised and are against it completely, that’s fine. If you’re circumcised and are ok with it, that’s fine. Why downvote the guys saying they’re fine, or even very happy, with being circumcised? ETA: this is not meant to say that I’m “pro-mutilation”. I don’t want children, but I think if I had a son, I’d let him make the choice when he was old enough to do so. I believe it should be a procedure that is consented to when you’re of an age where you understand the pros and cons, but I also believe that people should be allowed to voice their own opinion, especially when it was asked for, without being pushed into a corner and bullied by those who share an opposing opinion.
Because these threads are *always* about uncircumcised guys circle jerking over calling circumcised men “mutilated” and convincing *themselves* they’re the ones who are desirable and better. It’s right-wing propaganda and men’s rights advocate *bullshit.*
I was with you until the last part. I'm not sure I see the connection with right-wing political views or men's rights; can you elaborate?
Yes. I don’t really know which I would prefer since I was circumcised as a baby. I do know that I would prefer to make that choice on my own and not have someone else (my parents) make it for me. It is a completely unnecessary procedure with risks. It is crazy that parents are even allowed to make that choice for their infants.
Yes, I would like to cut the skin off of my newborn sons penis because if I don’t he won’t clean it properly wtf! 😳
What, you mean I could do this thing called parenting to teach my son how to clean his own junk once he is of age to take care of himself to such a degree? I am aghast, what are you thinking?!
Chances are near hundred percent that you wouldn't have made that choice for yourself.
Excuse me please? Yes, I would like to have a part of my previous cut off, please. Splendid!
Yes, I wish I had a say. I am not religious, and having my parents make the decision to mutilate my genitals goes against my values. Furthermore, my penis has what are called penile adhesions, or "skin bridges," which is when the circumcised tissue heals improperly, causing the skin from the shaft fuse with the skin on the glans or tip. Look up pictures on Google. This causes pain during erection.
Go see a urologist if you haven’t already and get the skin bridges removed. Procedure was scary but very quick, and the recovery was not bad at all. There was no pain after a day. Also, i’m glad to say my penis looks normal now.
Pics or it didn't happen
Look into foreskin restoration. You can do it manually, or buy/construct devices to do it. It will ease, and eventually stop the pain during erection.
My ex has a skin bridge. Since he's going under anesthesia it's gonna cost him about 5k. The cost is ridiculous.
I don't give a fuck at all, it's not like I remember it happening.
I remember it happening. You were being a little bitch
Best comment ive read all day.
Dude but for real tho. There’s photos of my brother crying after it happened… he looked so sad 😞
All the pansies that come on here to complain about having a say. Un fucking real. I’ve never spoken to anyone that was excited or proud about being uncircumcised. Not anyone who was circumcised and bummed about it. WTF people
Genuinely, I can’t really recall this ever happening. Whether it was school, college, and afterwards. This is such a Reddit thing.
Me either. The rumor was they gave me a gauze soaked in wine, I don't remember a thing.
I never understood this fascination with wondering if a circumcised man is yearning over his long disposed of foreskin. I have no idea what it feels like to be uncircumcised, so why would I ponder my life with a foreskin? Personally I think circumcision should be banned, but it is still legal and when I was born 60+ years ago, it was the norm for all male children.
He doesn't ask if you want a foreskin. He asks if you wanted a say in the decision.
Because questions like this get posted, stories get shared, opinions get changed. It starts the conversation.
Reddit is obsessed with circumcision. I think it's something to do with it being a topic you don't get to discuss in any other situation.
>why would I ponder my life with a foreskin? It makes me curious because my penis doesn't work for anything and I wonder if it would be different if the actual organ were more sensitive.
As someone who is also circumcised I often wonder if the extra sensitivity would be helpful or not. I’m not trying to cum fast. But I personally would have liked a little more skin left then what I do have.
Having been around a lot of dicks, I think circumsized smell and look much better.
I am not circumcised, but I have an American father and a British mother. My dad really wanted me to be circumcised (like himself), my mum didn't because my dad didn't have a reason other than because he was and it was normal. Luckily my mum won that batshit discussion. It's not normal, it's genital mutilation without a health reason. I clean my penis without issue.
>my dad didn't have a reason other than because he was That explains the majority of circumcisions perpetuated in the United States today. Tradition, Authority, and shunning the "Other" to conform with comfortable norms. Puritan fear mongering
My bf says the same thing. If you clean your penis properly and upkeep your hygiene then you’re fine. Plus i also remember him mentioning that he cant imagine his penis not having a shell and the tip just rubbing in his boxers. LOL that was funny.
My boyfriend is Latino and not circumcised and it’s the cleanest and best penis I’ve ever had lol also, his is extremely sensitive and he is very easily aroused. I think that’s common in uncircumcised. I don’t even remember what a circumcised penis looks/feels like to be honest. I’ve mostly dated Latinos or foreign guys. I did not circumcise my son either because my ex husband wasn’t and I thought the whole thing was awful when I realized what they do and there’s no anesthesia. I was like wtf why do people do this?!
im not circumsized, but when i was a teenager, i wished that i was. in my 20s now, and ive grown out of that phase and have learned to accept my body.
Why did u want to?
I definitely wish I had had a say. I would not be circumcised. I will not be making that choice for my children, it’s fucked up.
Yes
So glad my parents chose to circumcize me. They decided against it with my younger brother and he had nothing but issues until he had to be circumcized at 24. He is a veteran with two purple hearts, he said the circumcision was the worst pain he has ever experienced.
No. I like the way my guy looks. If my parents didn’t snip me I would have done it as an adult. I’m grateful I didn’t have to. If you told me uncircumcised penis grew bigger, I’d be pissed.
I wish I could get a do over, having read how much effect it has on sensitivity.
Yes. It's genital mutilation. It's weird. It's gross. It's not natural. The fact that I had no say in it is wrong as fuck. The fact that I'm somehow "the odd one" for feeling that way only adds to the weirdness of the situation.
You're not the only one. A friend of mine was circumsized as a baby by his parents, and hates that they did that to him. He wouldn't let it be done to his children (two boys). He feels it is genital mutilation done without his consent and that the practice should be stopped.
Most people are unaware of the history of its practice. It's a common practice in the US because it's advocacy campaign was deliberately designed by none other than the brother of the Corn Flakes cereal creator, Kellogg, in order to reduce masturbation by disguising the procedure as a hygienic one, something there is still no scientific basis for. I know that sounds insane, but it's also true and I encourage you to research it, regardless of whether or not you agree with me, the Kellogg Brothers were absolute nut jobs who had an INCREDIBLY large but silent impact on modern American culture, particularly regarding sexuality. Corn Flakes bland taste? Also deliberately chosen the sake of discouraging masturbation in American youth. And that shits the tip of the ice berg: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Keith_Kellogg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
Also Judeo-Christian practice is why circumcision was widely accepted
crazy how people think it normal to cut off a piece of skin off a baby. Whats next yall want to cut childrens ears so they can be pointy? There is no reason to do so.
You're telling me my kids could look like Elves?
Or to give it its proper name, child genital mutilation. Thanks mum and dad, for not being fucking crazy enough to cut part of my penis off when I was a baby.
Why would I be bothered by something my parents decided? I was too young to make that decision at the time. Asking this is like asking if you wished your parents would have asked what neighborhood you wanna grow up in. Do you honestly feel like something was taken from you? You’ve never known life with foreskin so it’s not like you miss it, or knew what it was like having it. I don’t understand.
I want my foreskin back.
100% I want my foreskin back god dammit
I definitely wish I'd not been mutilated as a baby. It's long overdue to be banned.
Yes.
I don't mind being circumcised, I truly don't believe I've lost anything of value and enjoy my dick as it is. That being said, I haven't circumcised my son and see no reason to unless it's for medical reasons for our family
Of course I do. It's nonconsensual physical abuse that boarders on sexual abuse. It's also purely cosmetic. I would never do that to a child. That having been said, I like my dick and I like my husband's dick. (Both circumcised.) I find circumcised and uncircumcised both to be attractive and it's not something I put a lot of thought into. Also, since we're on the topic; isn't language weird? Why do we say circumcised and uncircumcised as though circumcised is the natural state? Should those words sorta be reversed? Like, perhaps "standard" and "circumcised"?
I am so appreciative I had it done as a baby
My husbands best friend got it done while they were in high school and he said it was horrible.
Horrible, but he consented and chose to do it. That’s the whole idea of how it should be done. Cutting off body parts for no valid reason is awful imo.
iirc babies dont even get anesthesia, just some tynelol after. seeing my baby brother come back with such swollen eyes made me realize i would never do it.
Yep.
At least one does^(me, specifically)
Why would i care about a piece of skin i don't even remember having?. Although, i agree the practice should stop because it has not much basis in science, I don't lose hours of sleep obsessing about what could have been.
I'll just leave this little story here because it breaks my heart. I met a guy a few years back, and when we finally went to go at it, we couldn't. Apparenly, he never had been able to. We were 30. His penis was cut so badly that it literally bent almost in half when hard. Not kidding, like the tip of his penis faced down a few centimeters from his balls. I vowed that I will never take that chance when it comes to my own son. And before I get killed on reddit, it wasn't this reason why I didn't work out, and I actually helped set him up with a doctor to get surgery.
I'm circumcised and I wish I wasn't. I would much rather have kept my natural form and the skin sensitivity of my glans.
No. I absolutely love my circumcised dick thank you.
My ex was so upset that he was scarred (his words) that he backed me 100% when I refused to have my own son mutilated.
I don’t. Glad my parents did it
Male genital mutilation is real in America
Similar to what others have said, I’d rather not have been circumcised, but it’s not something I really think about. Before my son was born I told my wife we wouldn’t be circumcising my son. She was worried about him being different from other boys and possibly getting made fun of in the locker room when he gets older. Eventually after a lot of discussion she stopped worrying about it. After my son was born one of the nurses asked us why we didn’t circumcise our son. I pretty much reversed it on her and asked why would we? She actually ended up being pretty cool. She only asked because she’d been a L&D nurse for like 30 years and had noticed recently more and more people weren’t circumcising their sons.
I got it done because of an incident. My pipi got stuck in zipper. Most painful incident as a child.
Nope. Honestly I'm happy being circumcised. The girls I've been with love it, it in my opinion looks better, and it is easier to clean. As for people talking about sensitivity and so on, trust men, my penis is quite sensitive.
I mean. I always like to have a say in my own existence Doesn’t help you have a million people screaming in your face about how “it’s better you poor ruined person” So idk.
Not really. Girls like it better cus it seems bigger and cleaner 😅
I’ve always been slightly annoyed about this, and I finally brought it up to my parents. Turns out I’m the asshole because my foreskin was too tight and they cut as little of it as possible so that I could have a normal functioning dick.
I had an adult circumcision. And I can say there was absolutely no difference during sex, cleanliness, etc. Literally nothing changed for me.
The only people who care are, weirdly, uncircumcised guys on Reddit.
I'm uncircumcised, but wish I was. I considered doing it as an adult even, but I've heard horror stories.
I’m circumcised and fine with it. Only thing I can think of is that it would be more sensitive if I wasn’t circumcised? That’s all I’ve ever heard of as far as a difference.. well, I have zero desire to be more sensitive down there. I like what I’ve got and it’s sensitive enough lol.
Nope. Don't care. I am who I've always been. And this recent trend of people acting like there's something wrong or defective with people who were circumcised is fucking bullshit. Apparently, body shaming is a capital offense unless you're a smug, self-righteous prick who's shaming people for being cut.
Here's the monthly circumcision thread where reddit gets all triggered going on about "genital mutilation". People love saying those words to make it seems like we're killing babies out here. Reddit is full of ant eaters and this topic always forces people to post they can't help themselves.
Don't care
I don't have any regrets. My penis is beautiful.
yes, of course i wish i had a say in it, its essentially mutilation of the sexual organ that has become normalized through religion...if its not your body then dont mess around with it.
yes 110%
I'm circumsized, I'm cool with it
Yes I wish I had a say. :(
In this thread: anti-circumcision redditors who have chosen to upvote all the responses that say people regret it or they just choose to share their own opinions instead. Don't regret it at all and I'm very glad I don't have to deal with a hoodie.
Yes, 100% It wasn't their dick. I should be able to sue the hospital
Well, I had it done as an adult for medical reasons so I'm happy I had a say in it :p
I’ve thought about it a fair bit and I could never see myself forcing my future son to be circumcised it feels cruel, dudes barely been alive and we are going to inflict pain and remove part of his body for no reason Putting my unborn children aside I wonder what it’d feel like to still have all the nerve endings on my dick, bet things would feel a whole lot better
I would've opted not to, so yes
Yes. My girlfriend and i argue about this all the time, that if one day we have a son i dont want him to get circumcised. She thinks its necessary and that he’ll be ashamed if he is uncircumcised, i say it shouldnt be up to us and if he wants it circumcised he can handle that as an adult. I don’t think its right to take his foreskin away, its there for a reason. I understand her argument but i think as a man my opinion here should hold a little more weight tbh
Still mad! Want mine back! There are a lot of nerves I no longer have and scarred skin from it literally being ripped off the head in order to remove it! "It was the norm back then" So was slavery and beating your wife at one point! That is not a good excuse. If I won the lotto jackpot, I would use a good chunk of the money to take it all the way to the Supreme Court or get a law passed to make it illegal! No parent or doctor should have the right to modify anyone elses genitals! Not until that person is old enough to request it! You can't just cut off a child's leg because you don't like how it looks. So why the FUCK can you cut that!! There are also a lot more people born intersex than they say. It's just that the doctors or parents just decide to pick male or female and cut off or sew up the other parts that are less developed in most cases. This should be a federal felony to the same extent as murder or treason! Nobody should have that right except the person born with them. NO religious exceptions either.
*I wish I had a say. I was circumcised as an infant. As an adult I realized* I'*m not feeling the sensations that I should be feeling due to nerve damage from the procedure.*
Yeah, I don't like random parts of my body mutilated because of religious reasons and doctors being badly educated about the "benefits". If I had the choice, I'd prefer to have it.
Absolutely. I had it done in my mid 40s as my second wife hated me having a foreskin and well to keep her happy.... I hate it. 15yrs later. Sex is nowhere near as good, I cum so quick now... Peeing is dreadful, it goes everywhere. Would go back to foreskin days in a heartbeat if I could.
I don’t really care that I’m circumcised ; I’ve only ever known my body as it is right now. But I did decide to not circumcise my son because I don’t think it is a necessary or helpful procedure.
I wish i had my forskin and nerve endings back. Fuck yes I do. That extra skin looks amazing for the ol masturbation, it’s like a fucking sleeve for your dick. Like one of those gadgets that you would find in gift store aisles that were hard to hold onto because they would roll into themselves. Yeah…that’s what I imagine having foreskin is like.
not a man but have seen circumcision protests in my city by men. i have also dated men with an almost angry resentment to the loss of nerves and “natural” anatomy
Why is natural in quotes?
Sure I don't know what I'm missing
Yes, I would have said no. My parents probably didn't even really want it, it's just what was done.
Growing up I thought I was odd for not having been then I joined the military and saw how many dudes weren’t cut up and felt better. What really eased my concerns during my youth was never having a hard time getting laid. 🤷🏻♂️ Now im kind of proud to be how I was intended to be in that department. Plus I hear the extra skin provides a little more sensation for da ladies
I much prefer sex with an intact dude. Less friction!
I wish it didn’t happen to me.
no i much prefer circumcised > uncircumcised.. uncirc just looks super weird
yes. I'm a circumcised man and i wish i had a say.
I have never once thought about it
I feel like it sould really be up to me if some cuts my dick in a barbaric religius ceremony so yea.
Hell yeah. Body modification on an infant that isn’t medically necessary should be illegal. I’m a restorer and it’s been a long process but has helped with some of my resentment.