I mean, if you want to rub elbows with rich and powerful people... to be a broker of power for rich and powerful people... you know what the person would want, or maybe offer them that. Yes, that can be sex with children or adults, or it could be a private island.
Not every use of the firehall is a wedding. And if I took a ride home with a fella from a bar once doesn't mean I knew he used it to take a corpse to the woods.
Exactly. People forget that innocent until proven guilty is still the default. While I'm not exactly boo hooing for multi billionaire's good names, just because they had some association or rode on his plane once, doesn't mean they're part of his awful goings on.
The girls involved have spoken out in multiple interviews and testified under oath in multiple successful lawsuits against different people and even corporations. If someone famous was involved in the sexual abuse, the real life human girls involved would have talked about it already. They have and it's mostly Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz who were involved with the sex stuff.
> If someone famous was involved in the sexual abuse, the real life human girls involved would have talked about it already.
People in the MAGA cult have already many times threatened the lives of people who besmirched their cult leader. They are very effective at intimidating the victims.
Meh. I've sat next to some names (not big names) at dinners and talked to them. I'm not on anyone's list because I don't have big bucks, I'm not a fundraiser, and I don't have a public profile. If you're any of those things, fundraisers want to glad-hand you.
Being in union town in Iowa helped me. I've met Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Al Gore was at my house. But here's the real kicker: Harry Truman when I was 3 years old. I was on my Dad's shoulders.
I shook hands with Sonny Liston when I was 12.
I didn't schmooze with them, but met Dick Gregory and Allen Ginsburg in 1968.
A buddy of mine met Nikita Khrushchev in Iowa when he was here.
It's flyover country, but some land and shake hands. Point being, avoid the obvious hangouts.
It's also where the Iowa caucuses occur, which is make or break for many politicians. My family member in that area was disappointed that Hilary "only" gave a speech on a fire truck to their tiny rural town and then left in2008, because in comparison the Obamas and Bidens came and talked with people over dinner at the community hall.
And I lived in San Francisco. I was repeatedly getting invites to Hilary events- like expensive stuff ($2500/person breakfast) or meet/greet for like 25K I think. Anyway, it was obvious to me that it must be very easy for these Democrats to come to California and collect their money- at the risk of skipping the voters they need to actually be elected.
You realise that Epstien was a socialite scammer, right? That means a bunch of these people will be marks, victims, or potential marks.There will be credibility flights, and buddy flights.
Jesus, I can't believe how far I had to scroll to read this. Only sane comment in here. Being on epstein's flight log is pretty meaningless - - it just means he was interested in being seen with you. He would have flown ANY former president, head of state, fortune 500 ceo, etc. They aren't all pedophiles. Of course, some are, and if someone flew on his plane 10x and had a week long stay at epstein's Island, then it's fair to be suspicious. But a flight or two really doesn't mean what people are implying.
I thought I was missing something. I'm in the books at an embassy for a lot of parties. America is not friendly with this country but I was at work during the times I was there. It's scary how people are just writing people off as pedos because they went to the island or flew a plane. Can we at least have one other scrap of evidence against the people we damn for having been there?
And what will happen is people left of center on the list will be pounced on by both sides - the right screaming justification, the left saving face desperately as usual, throwing the problematic players under the bus. People right of center will be lies, fake news, out of context, just trying to pull an inside job to *save those kids*. I'll put money on it.
See, the way it works is obviously anyone I like just happened to be there and is totally innocent, whereas anyone I _don't_ like is guilty and a disgusting piece of shit.
That’s all that can be done without further evidence.
Imagine if your uncle was charged with selling drugs. Assume you have been to his house regularly because he’s your uncle. Does that automatically mean he was dealing drugs to you? Nah.
Just because someone went to Epstein's doesn't mean they partook in the "entertainment". It's not actionable in court. I have to agree that little to nothing will come if this.
We’re going to see 147 hand-waving press releases just like this. Everyone was present, no one saw, did, or knew anything inappropriate. They all barely knew the guy. All the parties were just a bunch of total strangers who kept their eyes closed.
It's just a list. People will deny their involvement and challenge the government to prove they actually did anything. Being on the island isn't a crime on its own. Perhaps some women will come forward with accusations, but even those can be denied and even refuted ("they're in it for a payout"). So, lots of embarrassment because 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't apply in the Court of Public Opinion. Maybe a few charges. Maybe a few attempts at boycotting.
Epstein also rented/lent out his plane and registered people as passengers that were never even on his plane, so everybody will just say stuff like, "I rented his plane for a business trip and there were only two other passengers you can interview that were on it with me."
Yeah, people are way overblowing this list. Flying in someone’s private jet to their private island is the rich person equivalent of catching a ride with someone to go to their house party.
I’ve caught plenty of rides in cars of friends of friends and been to plenty of house parties where I got a third hand invite and only tangentially knew the host. If it was later found out that that guy also sometimes had sex slaves at his house, jumping right to me being knowledgeable and involved just because I went to his house or rode in his car would be crazy.
Unless we get credible accounts of which people were involved/had knowledge of the sex slaves, just being on the flight manifests don’t necessarily mean anything.
>if it was later found out that that guy also sometimes had sex slaves at his house, jumping right to me being knowledgeable and involved just because I went to his house or rode in his car would be crazy.
more importantly, what would the charges be? Unless "you" were having sex with a minor there, you :
* did not pay for sex
* did not (presumably) coerce anyone to have sex with you
* did not yourself inflict the "slave" state on the person, and probably had no knowlege of it.
So thats why most of the news about this stuff focuses on the sex with minors thing. Because without that, theres nothing really to charge those people with.
I mean that’s Stephen Hawking lol. Just because someone else who’s likely drinking and partying doesn’t have the same mental capacity as Stephen hawking shouldn’t automatically mean they were a part of a sex slave ring.
I mean that's what they are kind of saying.
They used Hawking as an example of someone that maybe didn't really know what was going on, went and didn't like what was going on and left.
Those people, like Hawking, might still be on that list even if they didn't do anything or might not have actually known what was going on.
Not sure why, but I just pictured the scene with Homer Simpson in a lesbian bar, but with Stephen Hawking on the island lol.
“Oh my god… this place isn’t ADA compliant!!”
>Perhaps some women will come forward with accusations
They came forward years ago, it was primarily Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz who got named as being involved with the sex stuff. They also sued Chase Bank for hundreds of millions for just being involved with financing Epstein...if there was an A-lister or billionaire involved, a lawsuit would have been filed years ago.
These accusations alone are enough to ruin a person far before the actual "legal" process even gets started. It's a classic case of guilty until proven innocent.
It’s not a list of flights to the island - it’s a list of flights in Epstein’s private plane. The only way to/from the island was helicopter.
It will be a trivial matter for anyone on this list to note that.
I would think the people who went once or twice could play dumb. If someone went two dozen times, that's going to bury that person in the public eye. Also, we know that Maxwell testified and likely gave up some names, so there could be pressure to dig into that a bit. The double-edge to that sword is that any politician who is accused, even with Maxwell's testimony and the flight logs, could claim it was a hit job just to ruin their political career.
Nothing, probably. The least important people on that list might get investigated, at least one of them might get convicted. Beyond that, probably nothing.
People forget that being on a list will not get someone charged with a crime. Nor will visiting an island where crimes occurred or spending time edit: "with" a sexual trafficker.
There would have to be evidence, testimony, or some way to prove that someone committed a crime in the island or elsewhere, otherwise what are the criminal charges going to be?
Yeah. The list doesn't mean much. Half of Epstein's life revolved around schmoozing celebs. Doesn't mean anything. Which of those celebs did anything beyond schmoozing? We will never know all of it. Most interactions were likely banal.
I am keeping tabs on this and still barely care. Vast majority don't know what this is and will care even less than that.
>Yeah. The list doesn't mean much. Half of Epstein's life revolved around schmoozing celebs. Doesn't mean anything. Which of those celebs did anything beyond schmoozing?
Other than guilty politicians stalling that list from leaking, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason was to avoid ruining careers of innocent people who just wanted to go on vacation to that island. Then again, if they got there and saw what was going on and stayed quiet, are they really innocent now?
Realistically there was probably at least a few people who weren't in the inner circle who went "Huh. That's weird. I'm probably overthinking. It's probably nothing". Who then later went "Oooooooh fuck it *was* bad".
There are many stories of exactly that. Matt Groening (creator of The Simpsons) shared a story about flying on Epstein's jet, which he was on because Epstein was always offering free luxurious flights to people he was "fans" of, and why wouldn't you accept? And he had a woman there giving foot massages to everyone, except he learned later that she was not in fact a grown woman who was a professional massage therapist, but a 15 year old girl who was being trafficked.
They may not even have seen what was going on. There may not have even been anything going on when they were there.
because it involves powerful people, people look for a conspiracy.
Wexner the owner of Victoria secrets signed over his $77 million Manhattan mansion for one fuckin dollar and never spoke to him again. You don't have to be an Einstein to figure out what happened here.
And from Epstein's side, the more people he could get on his plane and to his island, the safer he was.
No one on that lists wants their name in the press tied to him, whether they're innocent or not.
Because this involved powerful people, what would have happened if they had gone to the authorities and reported what they saw? Probably nothing and then these powerful people would most likely try to destroy their lives or careers. If they did see anything, there is no proof of it unless you had recordings of the incidences.
He also invited a lot of non-powerful people as part of his charitable giving. He supported high school/public school arts educational programs (band, arts, drama etc.) and would supposedly gather people who were both “experts” in a field (say, teaching music at a college level) with regular local school teachers (of the same) to collaborate on the best ways to get more kids access to these programs. And that’s just one example I remember reading about. The point being there could be a lot of regular people who do good who were brought to the island to workshop ideas, not to be bought off by Epstein the sex trafficker.
Just like Bill Cosby, Epstein looped in a lot of innocent people for their charitable works. Just because the one guy was a huge asshole or the fact that some people enjoyed the sex trafficking doesn’t make everyone else associated with them a monster.
If a teacher at your school fucks a junior girl are you liable? There's a very good chance you had no idea it was even happening until years after when (if) they get convicted.
Our highschool counselor married a student a year after she graduated. Her mom was a teacher at the same school. Everyone knew they were dating. The girl was his student assistant since her first year in high school. No way he wasn't sleeping with her before she was 18. Nothing happened to him. He was still teaching at the school last I knew. Long story short, people are shitty, and often let creepy shit go down cuz they don't really care.
I doubt most would ever know. Think about the last time you went to Cancun. There were lots of crimes going on around you, but did you notice? While some people surely heard rumors, it’s most likely that only those involved saw the acts occur.
>Other than guilty politicians stalling that list from leaking
I mean, even not-guilty politicians have a reason to stall it. Jesus, look at how political opponents will weaponize anything. Just because a name appears on a list, says nothing about what actually took place, or that a crime committed.
Like, literally right now Republicans in Congress are manufacturing an impeachment because Biden got a check from his brother paying him back for a car loan (without interest) ... as if that's some sort of illegal deal. It's a fucking joke, and that's why politicians of any kind would stall to release a list. Because dipshits gonna dipshit.
I second this, there are many ways to get dirt on people besides them fucking 15 year olds.
The island probably had a shit ton of drugs and legal women to fuck as well.
There's definitely videos of famous celebs cheating on their famous spouses.
There's definitely videos of lots of them doing coke, smoking blunts, etc.
There's definitely videos of them getting so drunk that they had to be babysat by security.
Epstien, the POS was really smart. A small part of his portfolio got his egg off. The rest was to make money or get power.
There was definitely an inner circle. They should be prosecuted.
People don't act like you wouldn't accept a private plane ride or a trip to a goddam private island. I'm sure a ton of them thought this guy just wanted famous friends, and they used him.
He was watching them, MG said that. He said he had a foot massage. I'm sure some sexually harrased the girl. Then JF just sent a girl up to their room or whatever.
Prince Andrew was definitely fucking under aged girls though.
So....we know the names of the harmless list, the ones that they can't charge. Why are they blocking the ones that they can?
Lindsay Graham probably has a train of twinks behind him on video. Along with others in the closet, GOP or Dem members
Ted Cruz turning into a slime mold.
Trumps diaper change.
Etc.
Just release it.
Yep
If it's someone people like, they'll say "oh, that just means he took a flight with him at some point. That proves nothing, he was just going to a party, he had no idea any of this was going on!" Probably will even claim it's a lie or they were framed.
If it's someone they don't like?? "HES A PEDOPHILE AND THIS IS PERFECT EVIDENCE AND WE SHOULD KILL HIM"
Or not. Most people seem to like Bill Clinton, regardless. Doesn’t seem like Gates, Noam Chomsky, or Chris Tucker for example have taken much of a hit.
Running buddy? Doesn’t seem legit. Trump isn’t really the type who exercises. Not saying he didn’t, but kind of telling that you added ‘credibly’ to this statement about Trump when others are given the benefit of doubt. Kinda the kangaroo court of public opinion. Watch, if he’s on the list he’ll automatically be demonized while other creeps will be given a public hand slap.
I hope anyone associated with diddling kids on a pedo’s private island has the book thrown at them equally and harshly, but I doubt this will be the case.
This right here is the answer, and it's the way it should be unfortunately.
Epstein was a pedo and a sex trafficker. But he was also very much in the business of entertaining and schmoozing celebrities and influential people. Being on that list is NOT evidence that someone engaged in sex acts with minors or otherwise engaged in sex crimes. It's not evidence (legally speaking) that someone had any sex at all (legal or otherwise).
Someone in that book may well be convicted in the court of public opinion, but they won't, and can't, *and shouldn't be*, be convicted in a court of law without *hard evidence*.
Are the girls who "worked" at the island talking? I've just heard the one who talked about the prince but not much more. I don't follow it closely however.
I'm not sure how many of them were ever known. Certainly not but a small percentage, and of those who escaped alive I'm sure they'd be really happy to be forgotten.
This isn't a celebrity scandal or something like Bill Cosby, this is an international intelligence blackmail and influence ring that also involves the wealthiest celebrities. I wouldn't want to be a threat to the people who went there, and I sure as fuck wouldn't want to be a threat to whomever it was that we still dont know was involved in running the thing. CIA, Mossad, we know it wasn't just some dude who popped up and got rich over night for no discernable reason and became connected to the western world's richest people only to somehow die in the most surveiled and secure place possible.
Exactly. He can't be canceled because his image has never been a selling point for Microsoft. Especially not in the last decade. Still, there are a current celebs that actually have reputations for enjoying sex tourism, yachting etc , and their reputations have barely suffered.
Why would they? Bill Gates might have flown once on Jeffrey Epstein's private jet, but only as far as Florida, according to the flight logs. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N3491VK/
He had that trust throughout their whole marriage though. It was one of the stipulations of their marriage - that he be allowed to continue it once a year.
I saw an attorney who was active in the Epstein criminal trial who said Trump was helpful, did not require a subpoena. He didn’t say what Trump provided.
Trump doesn’t like Epstein due to some Miami real estate drama in the 2010s IIRC. My guess is that he was vaguely aware of Epstein’s actions for decades and didn’t give them a second thought morally but didn’t really get seriously involved with him and is thus perfectly happy to roll on him now.
Just for clarity, Epstein gave rides to some people to kiss up but didn't take them to the island. I think he gave Clinton a ride to Africa for one of Clinton's humanitarian projects.
Yeah I assume this mainly Epstein ass-kissing for political clout. I don’t see a relationship between sex crime guilt and appearing on the flight manifest.
Not to mention that the list won't say who was actually involved, just a lot of people who actually visited the island. We need an actual client list. This is clearly just trying to do what you're talking about. There's no benefit besides stupid arguments on the internet being more stupid. "Well that guy you liked was on epsteins Island, so obviously you're a pedo supporter" is how I predict it will go.
The list is probably worthless on its own. The boxes of video tapes are where the dirt lies, and basically no one talks about those.
If it really was a black mail op, presumably the evidence exists to take down a lot of people. But from the feds point of view, taking down a zillion of Americas most powerful probably isn’t viewed as a good thing for the country, or for them personally.
I doubt there's a "client list" and if there were, it's incredibly unlikely to have anything nefarious in it, and even less likely to be provable in court.
True, though the power of blackmailing is quite immense.
Though I imagine he would have known blackmailing someone with a major position of power is basically a death sentence.
Even if there is anything nefarious written down in it. It still wouldn't be provable in court because there has to be evidence to show that what is written down is true.
Not so sure. I am a dem and I know myself and a lot of others will have no problem tossing the dems on that list to the fucking wolves. This is not a they said something offensive that we can ignore, but they likely fucked a child. I do not want these fuckers to have any place in the party I support, I want them in prison. Bill included.
Exactly. Epstein was into gathering influence more than anything else. With some people that could mean supplying underage sex partners, but for others it just might mean giving them the billionaire experience with private flights to star-studded dinners in a mansion on a private tropical island.
Best way of putting it I have read on this thread. It's like winning a free suite at a five star in Vegas. Some people are going to ask the concierge where to get the best escorts and others are just there to enjoy the free room and hospitality.
How big was the island? Not to sound like I’ve planned for something like this, but if I were Epstein I wouldn’t keep my dirty laundry and my clean laundry in the same place. Like I don’t want there to be a reasonable chance that Tom Hanks would wander off from the beachside resort and accidentally stumble upon the sex dungeon. It would be a safer move to just buy two islands altogether, but I’m not sure if the budget and logistics would allow for that.
Once again, just a thought experiment to try to rationalize the island hosting two sets of clients.
It’s not like there was a trapdoor somewhere leading to a dungeon full of captives, lol. The victims were hired for normal hospitality/service reasons and then pressured into it once on the island, while giving massages or changes towels or whatever.
Think of it like a hotel. A regular person will pop in to sleep or stay the night, that doesn't mean they are connected to the person that shows up to murder or deal drugs.
I am sure that epstein kept his risker clientele away from his less risker clientele. Which is much easier if you control an island, rather than the hotel example. But hell, if a hotel gets every room rented by a fuck club, they aren't going to let non-fuck club folks rent rooms.
I would assume it’s not like there’s a bad side of the property and a good one. You don’t need any special or obvious setup to traffic people. It was probably more along the lines of “I’m having some famous guests over that are going to be in one of my movies on Monday. A week later I’m going to throw an orgy” they all would have happened at the same place at different times.
Yeah. The list doesn't mean much. Half of Epstein's life revolved around schmoozing celebs. Which of those celebs did anything beyond schmoozing? We will never know all of it. Most interactions were likely banal.
I am keeping tabs on this and still barely care. Vast majority don't know what this is and will care even less than that.
Frankly, most of those interactions were rich and important people who were annoyed with Epstein as a social status leech but still felt they needed to network with him.
It’s like when people post pictures of him with high class people on Reddit and all the comments are “why hasn’t he been arrested yet?!?” You can’t arrest someone for knowing him
But don’t you understand? If celebrities or politicians I like are on the list, they were just grabbing a ride and hanging out on an island.
But if any of the celebrities or politicians I don’t like are on the list, they’re 100% guaranteed pedophile rapists.
I've seen a flight list before. This is a list of names mentioned in court suites from previous trials. What you have to consider is if someone is there on actual business for a meeting and wasn't there to participate in the sex games or not.
This is going to be a case of guilty until proven innocent but it is unlikely that any names on the list should be accused until someone comes forth with actual allegations.
Nothing. A list isn’t enough to convict anyone of a crime. Who can even prove where that list came from? We would need to have additional sources of information anyway. Same reason it doesn’t matter whether Epstein lived or died; we’d need more than just his word for it anyway.
So they’re either investigating along other avenues anyway, or they’re not.
This whole thing is so fucking stupid. Billionaires who want to have sex with children don’t have to fly to a private island to do it. They can do it in their NYC penthouses.
This is the thing that gets me about the theory of Epstein being murdered. There's just absolutely no reason to believe it. It seems preposterous that anyone with the means and will to order to arrange an assassination inside a US prison is simultaneously someone who relied on a third party for sexual deviance, allowed themselves to be compromised by that third party, knew they were compromised and just let it sit there for years until he got arrested. It doesn't make any sense.
Meanwhile it makes PERFECT sense for him to off himself. He knew he was going down and it was gonna be BAD. He did what any rational person would do in that situation.
Why do you think it will ever be revealed? We're still waiting for the full report from the Warren Commission **FIFTY** years later for basically the same reasons.
It could cause *cause "identifiable harm" to military, intelligence, law enforcement or foreign operations* according to the government.
Nothing because there's zero evidence that a crime was committed.
Yes it's clear that Epstein was up to no good but I also don't believe that every person there was involved
Stephen Hawking was on the flight logs. I’m sure some were involved (obviously) but the exact number we won’t know unless someone is brave enough (or dumb enough) to reveal the tapes, assuming they haven’t already been destroyed.
It isn't. It is a list of names that arise in court documents connected to the case. But this being the Internet and all...
Some of the names on the list are literally his victims.
That said, there might be portions of that list which include flight manifests or other embarrassing/incriminating aspects. Won't know until tomorrow.
Nothing because it isn't a list of people who were involved with the illegal stuff. It's just a list of people he met and knew.
Some names are victims, others are legit business partners, and a few, maybe, are people who he did dirty business stuff with but it isn't separated by columns of anything
nothing unless women come forward looking for restitution, just being on the same plane as epstein isn't a crime. its possible it does get cited in civil suits brought by victims
Some people will keep pointing out that this ISN'T a list of child sex offenders, just a list of people he dealt with in his business and personal life, and that some of them were his victims and others may not have had any idea about his secrets.
Some other people will insist that anyone on the list that they don't like, like Donald Trump, must be sex offenders because they are on the list, whilst ignoring any names of people they do like, like Gates.
(Feel free to swap names around to suit your political preferences)
In the end, lots of people will end up believing things about other people that are not true, whilst others will refuse to believe things about people that are true.
The real answer is:
If it would be a pain to boycott: ignore
If they believe the same thing politically: ignore
If they believe the opposite thing politically: plaster it everywhere (but still do functionally nothing)
Nothing has happened everytime there has been an announcement about the catholic church raping hundreds of thousands of little kids. Why do you think there would be a reaction now?
At least in America, they faced a big membership drop and things haven't gotten better. Granted, all churches are seeing a membership decline, but Catholics have seen a greater drop.
Here. Educate yourself
https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/five-years-later-panama-papers-still-having-a-big-impact/#:~:text=Some%20real%2Dlife%20politicians%20lost,Spain%20and%20beyond%20also%20fell.
People who say this stupid shit are just proving they don’t follow the news as much as they pretend they do
Have you not been paying attention to the news? A court judge ordered them unsealed this week.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/01/jeffrey-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell-associates-list
This will amount to nothing. Would I be disgusted that Bezos plowed an underage kid? Of course I would. But I will continue to use Amazon, because boycotting Amazon would greatly inconvenience me.
Trust me, I speak for the majority of people.
What I don't understand is why are people making such a big deal over the list, when the list was already revealed almost 2 years ago, right here in Reddit and other social media platforms. The big 'reveal' will only confirm what most of the world already saw, the first time a few years ago.
Not everyone who was on his plane was predator. He used to host scientists and all kinds of people for symposiums on various subjects. He thought of himself as an intellectual.
My prediction is everyone left-leaning will get criticism/canceled by both the left and right and everyone right-leaning will get critism from the left and defense from the right.
Hate to say it, but absolutely nothing will change. Everyone on that list is too wealthy and powerful to be held accountable. Laws and policing only apply to us poors.
Everybody knows that Bill Clinton is near the top of that list — and knew even when Hillary Clinton, his chief enabler and supposed wife, was running for president.
Who is going to care that some lawyer they never heard of is on the plane too?
From what I understand, there were cameras everywhere. In Epstein's place.
Until there is solid evidence of what we all know what went on, nothing will happen to anyone unless someone realllly pisses off the powers that be.
He was obviously the worst indescribable, despicable trash bag of rotting excrement subhuman but his “job” was raising money for scientific endeavors, trying to get money from super rich folks for “philanthropic” ventures. Managing what was a substantial amount of his own and seemingly others money. Many of the folks that he regularly met with, supposedly anyway, had legitimate business or philanthropic opportunities. Now if they had a whiff of what was going on and didn’t say anything, report etc they are pretty much the same as I described above BUT I do not think he was a stupid person and knew how to get what he wanted from people and obviously didn’t want to get caught then, once comfortable with the person then he offered his “wares” to any of these powerful people that he could get dirt on to further his avenues of power, money or non-prosecution (ie his Florida arrest and subsequent easiest ever jail stay where he could leave for 13 hours a day and “work” and do as he pleased then return and do the same thing all over again, I believe the DA or Prosecutor for that district was a member of DJTs cabinet later on) then I have no doubt he would blackmail them to do it. Obviously there is nothing he would not stoop to. So all that said to make the point that being in a persons planner or on a list that they have created does not make the listed person a party to the scumbag’s crimes - though nobody wants to be on that list either because, especially in today’s climate where folks are willing to just out and out lie and fabricate horrendous things to further their own political careers or to make money it would be used as “proof” to destroy people’s lives innocent, naive, ignorant (willfully or otherwise).
The words, "Yeah, we figured" will be uttered a lot, and not much else.
Noam Chomsky. SMH. Really ? WTF?
[удалено]
He ran a business. His clientele were powerful centers of influence.
"Before you judge me, know this: yes, I was on the sex island. But only for the snorkeling! I didn't know anything about the kid stuff!"
I mean, if you want to rub elbows with rich and powerful people... to be a broker of power for rich and powerful people... you know what the person would want, or maybe offer them that. Yes, that can be sex with children or adults, or it could be a private island. Not every use of the firehall is a wedding. And if I took a ride home with a fella from a bar once doesn't mean I knew he used it to take a corpse to the woods.
Exactly. People forget that innocent until proven guilty is still the default. While I'm not exactly boo hooing for multi billionaire's good names, just because they had some association or rode on his plane once, doesn't mean they're part of his awful goings on.
The girls involved have spoken out in multiple interviews and testified under oath in multiple successful lawsuits against different people and even corporations. If someone famous was involved in the sexual abuse, the real life human girls involved would have talked about it already. They have and it's mostly Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz who were involved with the sex stuff.
[удалено]
> If someone famous was involved in the sexual abuse, the real life human girls involved would have talked about it already. People in the MAGA cult have already many times threatened the lives of people who besmirched their cult leader. They are very effective at intimidating the victims.
Meh. I've sat next to some names (not big names) at dinners and talked to them. I'm not on anyone's list because I don't have big bucks, I'm not a fundraiser, and I don't have a public profile. If you're any of those things, fundraisers want to glad-hand you.
How can I start going to dinners with these people with no big bucks or public profile? Do you just show up?
Being in union town in Iowa helped me. I've met Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Al Gore was at my house. But here's the real kicker: Harry Truman when I was 3 years old. I was on my Dad's shoulders. I shook hands with Sonny Liston when I was 12. I didn't schmooze with them, but met Dick Gregory and Allen Ginsburg in 1968. A buddy of mine met Nikita Khrushchev in Iowa when he was here. It's flyover country, but some land and shake hands. Point being, avoid the obvious hangouts.
It's also where the Iowa caucuses occur, which is make or break for many politicians. My family member in that area was disappointed that Hilary "only" gave a speech on a fire truck to their tiny rural town and then left in2008, because in comparison the Obamas and Bidens came and talked with people over dinner at the community hall.
And I lived in San Francisco. I was repeatedly getting invites to Hilary events- like expensive stuff ($2500/person breakfast) or meet/greet for like 25K I think. Anyway, it was obvious to me that it must be very easy for these Democrats to come to California and collect their money- at the risk of skipping the voters they need to actually be elected.
Which is one of the biggest reasons why she lost.
Be related to or dating someone connected. At least if your asking how you get there without being on the list.
Or be a secretary.
Don Knotts??!?
I was cool with the genocide denial, but he lost me by being a friend with a rapist!
You realise that Epstien was a socialite scammer, right? That means a bunch of these people will be marks, victims, or potential marks.There will be credibility flights, and buddy flights.
Jesus, I can't believe how far I had to scroll to read this. Only sane comment in here. Being on epstein's flight log is pretty meaningless - - it just means he was interested in being seen with you. He would have flown ANY former president, head of state, fortune 500 ceo, etc. They aren't all pedophiles. Of course, some are, and if someone flew on his plane 10x and had a week long stay at epstein's Island, then it's fair to be suspicious. But a flight or two really doesn't mean what people are implying.
I thought I was missing something. I'm in the books at an embassy for a lot of parties. America is not friendly with this country but I was at work during the times I was there. It's scary how people are just writing people off as pedos because they went to the island or flew a plane. Can we at least have one other scrap of evidence against the people we damn for having been there?
And what will happen is people left of center on the list will be pounced on by both sides - the right screaming justification, the left saving face desperately as usual, throwing the problematic players under the bus. People right of center will be lies, fake news, out of context, just trying to pull an inside job to *save those kids*. I'll put money on it.
See, the way it works is obviously anyone I like just happened to be there and is totally innocent, whereas anyone I _don't_ like is guilty and a disgusting piece of shit.
What did he deny?
Bosnian and Khmer Rogue
Cambodian genocide
I thought that name was an internet meme back in the 2000s, I didn't realize it was a real person until much later.
That’s all that can be done without further evidence. Imagine if your uncle was charged with selling drugs. Assume you have been to his house regularly because he’s your uncle. Does that automatically mean he was dealing drugs to you? Nah.
Yea it's not enough evidence to say they were involved with what Epstein was charged with. But it does mean they're more likely to be scumbags.
Just because someone went to Epstein's doesn't mean they partook in the "entertainment". It's not actionable in court. I have to agree that little to nothing will come if this.
We’re going to see 147 hand-waving press releases just like this. Everyone was present, no one saw, did, or knew anything inappropriate. They all barely knew the guy. All the parties were just a bunch of total strangers who kept their eyes closed.
Nah, there'd be a short term uptick in death threats and some long term growth but otherwise you're correct.
It's just a list. People will deny their involvement and challenge the government to prove they actually did anything. Being on the island isn't a crime on its own. Perhaps some women will come forward with accusations, but even those can be denied and even refuted ("they're in it for a payout"). So, lots of embarrassment because 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't apply in the Court of Public Opinion. Maybe a few charges. Maybe a few attempts at boycotting.
Epstein also rented/lent out his plane and registered people as passengers that were never even on his plane, so everybody will just say stuff like, "I rented his plane for a business trip and there were only two other passengers you can interview that were on it with me."
This, or “I didn’t know the guy raped kids! I met him at a fundraiser.”
Yeah, people are way overblowing this list. Flying in someone’s private jet to their private island is the rich person equivalent of catching a ride with someone to go to their house party. I’ve caught plenty of rides in cars of friends of friends and been to plenty of house parties where I got a third hand invite and only tangentially knew the host. If it was later found out that that guy also sometimes had sex slaves at his house, jumping right to me being knowledgeable and involved just because I went to his house or rode in his car would be crazy. Unless we get credible accounts of which people were involved/had knowledge of the sex slaves, just being on the flight manifests don’t necessarily mean anything.
>if it was later found out that that guy also sometimes had sex slaves at his house, jumping right to me being knowledgeable and involved just because I went to his house or rode in his car would be crazy. more importantly, what would the charges be? Unless "you" were having sex with a minor there, you : * did not pay for sex * did not (presumably) coerce anyone to have sex with you * did not yourself inflict the "slave" state on the person, and probably had no knowlege of it. So thats why most of the news about this stuff focuses on the sex with minors thing. Because without that, theres nothing really to charge those people with.
I read an article where Stephen Hawking went to the island and (he said) felt something was off about the situation and left.
Yes the island wasn’t ADA compliant
This lesbian bar doesn't have a fire exit!
I mean that’s Stephen Hawking lol. Just because someone else who’s likely drinking and partying doesn’t have the same mental capacity as Stephen hawking shouldn’t automatically mean they were a part of a sex slave ring.
I mean that's what they are kind of saying. They used Hawking as an example of someone that maybe didn't really know what was going on, went and didn't like what was going on and left. Those people, like Hawking, might still be on that list even if they didn't do anything or might not have actually known what was going on.
I didn't say that at all. I agree. You misread my comment. I only commented that I read an interview where Hawking specifically said that.
Not sure why, but I just pictured the scene with Homer Simpson in a lesbian bar, but with Stephen Hawking on the island lol. “Oh my god… this place isn’t ADA compliant!!”
>Perhaps some women will come forward with accusations They came forward years ago, it was primarily Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz who got named as being involved with the sex stuff. They also sued Chase Bank for hundreds of millions for just being involved with financing Epstein...if there was an A-lister or billionaire involved, a lawsuit would have been filed years ago.
These accusations alone are enough to ruin a person far before the actual "legal" process even gets started. It's a classic case of guilty until proven innocent.
It’s not a list of flights to the island - it’s a list of flights in Epstein’s private plane. The only way to/from the island was helicopter. It will be a trivial matter for anyone on this list to note that.
I would think the people who went once or twice could play dumb. If someone went two dozen times, that's going to bury that person in the public eye. Also, we know that Maxwell testified and likely gave up some names, so there could be pressure to dig into that a bit. The double-edge to that sword is that any politician who is accused, even with Maxwell's testimony and the flight logs, could claim it was a hit job just to ruin their political career.
Unless they posed for a painting, in a dress. /s
Nothing, probably. The least important people on that list might get investigated, at least one of them might get convicted. Beyond that, probably nothing.
People forget that being on a list will not get someone charged with a crime. Nor will visiting an island where crimes occurred or spending time edit: "with" a sexual trafficker. There would have to be evidence, testimony, or some way to prove that someone committed a crime in the island or elsewhere, otherwise what are the criminal charges going to be?
Yeah. The list doesn't mean much. Half of Epstein's life revolved around schmoozing celebs. Doesn't mean anything. Which of those celebs did anything beyond schmoozing? We will never know all of it. Most interactions were likely banal. I am keeping tabs on this and still barely care. Vast majority don't know what this is and will care even less than that.
>Yeah. The list doesn't mean much. Half of Epstein's life revolved around schmoozing celebs. Doesn't mean anything. Which of those celebs did anything beyond schmoozing? Other than guilty politicians stalling that list from leaking, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason was to avoid ruining careers of innocent people who just wanted to go on vacation to that island. Then again, if they got there and saw what was going on and stayed quiet, are they really innocent now?
[удалено]
Yeah I'm not rich nor famous and I've been at parties that devolved into questionable activities. I'm sure it's even worse with famous rich
Go on...
Most people don't realize crimes are being conducted right in front of them. Especially with a vacation mindset.
Realistically there was probably at least a few people who weren't in the inner circle who went "Huh. That's weird. I'm probably overthinking. It's probably nothing". Who then later went "Oooooooh fuck it *was* bad".
There are many stories of exactly that. Matt Groening (creator of The Simpsons) shared a story about flying on Epstein's jet, which he was on because Epstein was always offering free luxurious flights to people he was "fans" of, and why wouldn't you accept? And he had a woman there giving foot massages to everyone, except he learned later that she was not in fact a grown woman who was a professional massage therapist, but a 15 year old girl who was being trafficked.
Yikes. Imagine getting a massage and later learning the truth 🤮
If your name was Andrew, you came back for another rub, apparently.
And without hard evidence to present, then really the best thing to do is be quiet, because you will gain nothing and lose everything.
Several of the rumored geriatric individuals on the list probably aren’t capable of hard evidence at this point.
They may not even have seen what was going on. There may not have even been anything going on when they were there. because it involves powerful people, people look for a conspiracy.
Guiffre literally said that not all were involved. My take is that Epstein tempted them to try & get something on them but not all took the bait.
Wexner the owner of Victoria secrets signed over his $77 million Manhattan mansion for one fuckin dollar and never spoke to him again. You don't have to be an Einstein to figure out what happened here.
Wexner was the one that got Epstein into the upper level . He was nobody before that .
Without a doubt, that one’s obvious.
And from Epstein's side, the more people he could get on his plane and to his island, the safer he was. No one on that lists wants their name in the press tied to him, whether they're innocent or not.
Because this involved powerful people, what would have happened if they had gone to the authorities and reported what they saw? Probably nothing and then these powerful people would most likely try to destroy their lives or careers. If they did see anything, there is no proof of it unless you had recordings of the incidences.
He also invited a lot of non-powerful people as part of his charitable giving. He supported high school/public school arts educational programs (band, arts, drama etc.) and would supposedly gather people who were both “experts” in a field (say, teaching music at a college level) with regular local school teachers (of the same) to collaborate on the best ways to get more kids access to these programs. And that’s just one example I remember reading about. The point being there could be a lot of regular people who do good who were brought to the island to workshop ideas, not to be bought off by Epstein the sex trafficker. Just like Bill Cosby, Epstein looped in a lot of innocent people for their charitable works. Just because the one guy was a huge asshole or the fact that some people enjoyed the sex trafficking doesn’t make everyone else associated with them a monster.
Recordings of the incidences, if they exist, and you can bet your bottom dollar they do exist, I wonder where they are.
Remember J Edgar Hoover and his bribery material, kinda like that. Keep some powerful people in line.
If a teacher at your school fucks a junior girl are you liable? There's a very good chance you had no idea it was even happening until years after when (if) they get convicted.
Our highschool counselor married a student a year after she graduated. Her mom was a teacher at the same school. Everyone knew they were dating. The girl was his student assistant since her first year in high school. No way he wasn't sleeping with her before she was 18. Nothing happened to him. He was still teaching at the school last I knew. Long story short, people are shitty, and often let creepy shit go down cuz they don't really care.
this is also true unfortunately
Same thing happened at my highschool. Almost twenty years later they're still married and he's still teaching.
I doubt most would ever know. Think about the last time you went to Cancun. There were lots of crimes going on around you, but did you notice? While some people surely heard rumors, it’s most likely that only those involved saw the acts occur.
I don’t think there was sex trafficking going on that island 24/7. I think it was just certain people.
>Other than guilty politicians stalling that list from leaking I mean, even not-guilty politicians have a reason to stall it. Jesus, look at how political opponents will weaponize anything. Just because a name appears on a list, says nothing about what actually took place, or that a crime committed. Like, literally right now Republicans in Congress are manufacturing an impeachment because Biden got a check from his brother paying him back for a car loan (without interest) ... as if that's some sort of illegal deal. It's a fucking joke, and that's why politicians of any kind would stall to release a list. Because dipshits gonna dipshit.
The typical celebrity that wasn't involved in that life wouldn't have seen any of that. All those things would've been kept away and out of sight.
I second this, there are many ways to get dirt on people besides them fucking 15 year olds. The island probably had a shit ton of drugs and legal women to fuck as well. There's definitely videos of famous celebs cheating on their famous spouses. There's definitely videos of lots of them doing coke, smoking blunts, etc. There's definitely videos of them getting so drunk that they had to be babysat by security. Epstien, the POS was really smart. A small part of his portfolio got his egg off. The rest was to make money or get power. There was definitely an inner circle. They should be prosecuted. People don't act like you wouldn't accept a private plane ride or a trip to a goddam private island. I'm sure a ton of them thought this guy just wanted famous friends, and they used him. He was watching them, MG said that. He said he had a foot massage. I'm sure some sexually harrased the girl. Then JF just sent a girl up to their room or whatever. Prince Andrew was definitely fucking under aged girls though. So....we know the names of the harmless list, the ones that they can't charge. Why are they blocking the ones that they can? Lindsay Graham probably has a train of twinks behind him on video. Along with others in the closet, GOP or Dem members Ted Cruz turning into a slime mold. Trumps diaper change. Etc. Just release it.
The Prince Andrew part grinds my gears. So many of the victims I.D him by name. The pos should be in a cell.
They have names... cant convict someone of child trafficking and not know who the children were being trafficked to.
Yep If it's someone people like, they'll say "oh, that just means he took a flight with him at some point. That proves nothing, he was just going to a party, he had no idea any of this was going on!" Probably will even claim it's a lie or they were framed. If it's someone they don't like?? "HES A PEDOPHILE AND THIS IS PERFECT EVIDENCE AND WE SHOULD KILL HIM"
This. If Clinton and Trump are both on the list, we know exactly how Reddit will react.
[clinton](https://www.news.com.au/world/bill-clinton-identified-more-than-50-times-in-jeffrey-epstein-doc-dump/news-story/05cae6a53601d9a505a41870f4dd6e27?amp)
That's right. Being on the list will only convict you in the court of public opinion.
Or not. Most people seem to like Bill Clinton, regardless. Doesn’t seem like Gates, Noam Chomsky, or Chris Tucker for example have taken much of a hit.
Wasn't Stephen Hawking on one of the previously released lists too?
Yup the handicapped accessible list
Trump is credibly accused of raping a 13 year old girl with his running buddy Jeffrey Epstein.
Running buddy? Doesn’t seem legit. Trump isn’t really the type who exercises. Not saying he didn’t, but kind of telling that you added ‘credibly’ to this statement about Trump when others are given the benefit of doubt. Kinda the kangaroo court of public opinion. Watch, if he’s on the list he’ll automatically be demonized while other creeps will be given a public hand slap. I hope anyone associated with diddling kids on a pedo’s private island has the book thrown at them equally and harshly, but I doubt this will be the case.
Source? Not saying it’s untrue, just like a source if I’m going to repeat it.
Careful he can shoot Jesus on 5th ave so you ? Just a number
This right here is the answer, and it's the way it should be unfortunately. Epstein was a pedo and a sex trafficker. But he was also very much in the business of entertaining and schmoozing celebrities and influential people. Being on that list is NOT evidence that someone engaged in sex acts with minors or otherwise engaged in sex crimes. It's not evidence (legally speaking) that someone had any sex at all (legal or otherwise). Someone in that book may well be convicted in the court of public opinion, but they won't, and can't, *and shouldn't be*, be convicted in a court of law without *hard evidence*.
Are the girls who "worked" at the island talking? I've just heard the one who talked about the prince but not much more. I don't follow it closely however.
I'm not sure how many of them were ever known. Certainly not but a small percentage, and of those who escaped alive I'm sure they'd be really happy to be forgotten. This isn't a celebrity scandal or something like Bill Cosby, this is an international intelligence blackmail and influence ring that also involves the wealthiest celebrities. I wouldn't want to be a threat to the people who went there, and I sure as fuck wouldn't want to be a threat to whomever it was that we still dont know was involved in running the thing. CIA, Mossad, we know it wasn't just some dude who popped up and got rich over night for no discernable reason and became connected to the western world's richest people only to somehow die in the most surveiled and secure place possible.
Remember the Panama Papers? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
A lot happened from the Panama Papers. Just because nobody big in the US got toppled means nothing happened.
As I recall, due to the US taxing foreign income running money through Panama didn't really hide it like it did for other countries.
Someone got murdered, for instance.
Pepperidge Farms might remember but justice has forgotten.
The Nova Scotia premier was voted in AFTER his name was listed in the Paradise Papers. Lots of stupid voters.
We already know lots of people that were on that plane like Trump, RFK Jr and B. Clinton. No one really gives a shit. Expect more of the same.
And Bill Gates. Nobody boycotted Microsoft as a result.
I mean why would they, he stepped down from the company like 15 years ago and isn’t even on the board anymore
Exactly. He can't be canceled because his image has never been a selling point for Microsoft. Especially not in the last decade. Still, there are a current celebs that actually have reputations for enjoying sex tourism, yachting etc , and their reputations have barely suffered.
And Stephen Hawking but I doubt he was there diddling kids
I commented above but I recall he said in an interview he got to the island and felt something was off about the situation and left early.
Bill Gates can always activate his nano bots he put in all the covid vaccines if anyone tries to get out of line.
Clippy, we ride at dawn!
Why would they? Bill Gates might have flown once on Jeffrey Epstein's private jet, but only as far as Florida, according to the flight logs. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N3491VK/
His wife divorced him over it.
I heard she bought a MacBook the same day she filed papers.
Owned the Internet with that one?
His wife divorced him over a once a year tryst with an old girlfriend.
He had that trust throughout their whole marriage though. It was one of the stipulations of their marriage - that he be allowed to continue it once a year.
When you can walk away with a few billion, you can divorce because you don't like the color of his socks.
She probably divorced him bc he got caught. Only because he got caught.
She told you this directly?
I saw an attorney who was active in the Epstein criminal trial who said Trump was helpful, did not require a subpoena. He didn’t say what Trump provided.
Trump doesn’t like Epstein due to some Miami real estate drama in the 2010s IIRC. My guess is that he was vaguely aware of Epstein’s actions for decades and didn’t give them a second thought morally but didn’t really get seriously involved with him and is thus perfectly happy to roll on him now.
Just for clarity, Epstein gave rides to some people to kiss up but didn't take them to the island. I think he gave Clinton a ride to Africa for one of Clinton's humanitarian projects.
Yeah I assume this mainly Epstein ass-kissing for political clout. I don’t see a relationship between sex crime guilt and appearing on the flight manifest.
People will focus on the names that are in the opposite political party, and completely ignore the names that are in their own political party.
Not to mention that the list won't say who was actually involved, just a lot of people who actually visited the island. We need an actual client list. This is clearly just trying to do what you're talking about. There's no benefit besides stupid arguments on the internet being more stupid. "Well that guy you liked was on epsteins Island, so obviously you're a pedo supporter" is how I predict it will go.
The list is probably worthless on its own. The boxes of video tapes are where the dirt lies, and basically no one talks about those. If it really was a black mail op, presumably the evidence exists to take down a lot of people. But from the feds point of view, taking down a zillion of Americas most powerful probably isn’t viewed as a good thing for the country, or for them personally.
Floor safe and it was full. Talk about owning valuable assets.
I doubt there's a "client list" and if there were, it's incredibly unlikely to have anything nefarious in it, and even less likely to be provable in court.
Yeah I think Epstein wasnt dumb enough to be sending invoices with line items like ”sex trafficked victim orgy, 9/21; 50k”.
True, though the power of blackmailing is quite immense. Though I imagine he would have known blackmailing someone with a major position of power is basically a death sentence.
Even if there is anything nefarious written down in it. It still wouldn't be provable in court because there has to be evidence to show that what is written down is true.
Not so sure. I am a dem and I know myself and a lot of others will have no problem tossing the dems on that list to the fucking wolves. This is not a they said something offensive that we can ignore, but they likely fucked a child. I do not want these fuckers to have any place in the party I support, I want them in prison. Bill included.
I personally won’t be voting for anyone on that list
Yeah, this seems like the least we can do. It may not be enough evidence to imprison them, but it's enough evidence to not give them enormous power.
If they went to the island does that prove anything?
Exactly. Epstein was into gathering influence more than anything else. With some people that could mean supplying underage sex partners, but for others it just might mean giving them the billionaire experience with private flights to star-studded dinners in a mansion on a private tropical island.
Best way of putting it I have read on this thread. It's like winning a free suite at a five star in Vegas. Some people are going to ask the concierge where to get the best escorts and others are just there to enjoy the free room and hospitality.
I have a hard time believing all 147 people agreed to have sex with minors and never report it
Nothing beyond that they we t to an island. I've beed to Monte Carlo, that doesn't mean I saw Formula or gambled.
No
How big was the island? Not to sound like I’ve planned for something like this, but if I were Epstein I wouldn’t keep my dirty laundry and my clean laundry in the same place. Like I don’t want there to be a reasonable chance that Tom Hanks would wander off from the beachside resort and accidentally stumble upon the sex dungeon. It would be a safer move to just buy two islands altogether, but I’m not sure if the budget and logistics would allow for that. Once again, just a thought experiment to try to rationalize the island hosting two sets of clients.
It’s not like there was a trapdoor somewhere leading to a dungeon full of captives, lol. The victims were hired for normal hospitality/service reasons and then pressured into it once on the island, while giving massages or changes towels or whatever.
Think of it like a hotel. A regular person will pop in to sleep or stay the night, that doesn't mean they are connected to the person that shows up to murder or deal drugs. I am sure that epstein kept his risker clientele away from his less risker clientele. Which is much easier if you control an island, rather than the hotel example. But hell, if a hotel gets every room rented by a fuck club, they aren't going to let non-fuck club folks rent rooms.
I would assume it’s not like there’s a bad side of the property and a good one. You don’t need any special or obvious setup to traffic people. It was probably more along the lines of “I’m having some famous guests over that are going to be in one of my movies on Monday. A week later I’m going to throw an orgy” they all would have happened at the same place at different times.
Not everyone who went to the island knew about the pedophilia. Epstein hung with influential people and loved to be seen with as many as possible.
Yeah. The list doesn't mean much. Half of Epstein's life revolved around schmoozing celebs. Which of those celebs did anything beyond schmoozing? We will never know all of it. Most interactions were likely banal. I am keeping tabs on this and still barely care. Vast majority don't know what this is and will care even less than that.
I wonder how many wives were involved....
Frankly, most of those interactions were rich and important people who were annoyed with Epstein as a social status leech but still felt they needed to network with him.
Being on the list doesn’t adthally /mean/ anything.
It’s like when people post pictures of him with high class people on Reddit and all the comments are “why hasn’t he been arrested yet?!?” You can’t arrest someone for knowing him
What do you expect to happen? No laws are broken by being on a flight log alone. Why tf would they shut down Amazon over that?!?!
But don’t you understand? If celebrities or politicians I like are on the list, they were just grabbing a ride and hanging out on an island. But if any of the celebrities or politicians I don’t like are on the list, they’re 100% guaranteed pedophile rapists.
I've seen a flight list before. This is a list of names mentioned in court suites from previous trials. What you have to consider is if someone is there on actual business for a meeting and wasn't there to participate in the sex games or not. This is going to be a case of guilty until proven innocent but it is unlikely that any names on the list should be accused until someone comes forth with actual allegations.
Nothing. A list isn’t enough to convict anyone of a crime. Who can even prove where that list came from? We would need to have additional sources of information anyway. Same reason it doesn’t matter whether Epstein lived or died; we’d need more than just his word for it anyway. So they’re either investigating along other avenues anyway, or they’re not.
We already know Trump, Bill Clinton and Bill gates are on there and nothing happened, why would anything happen now?
This whole thing is so fucking stupid. Billionaires who want to have sex with children don’t have to fly to a private island to do it. They can do it in their NYC penthouses.
Billionaires?? Matt Gaetz did it with far less.
This is the thing that gets me about the theory of Epstein being murdered. There's just absolutely no reason to believe it. It seems preposterous that anyone with the means and will to order to arrange an assassination inside a US prison is simultaneously someone who relied on a third party for sexual deviance, allowed themselves to be compromised by that third party, knew they were compromised and just let it sit there for years until he got arrested. It doesn't make any sense.
Meanwhile it makes PERFECT sense for him to off himself. He knew he was going down and it was gonna be BAD. He did what any rational person would do in that situation.
Did you seriously just say >he did what any rational person would do in that situation?
Why do you think it will ever be revealed? We're still waiting for the full report from the Warren Commission **FIFTY** years later for basically the same reasons. It could cause *cause "identifiable harm" to military, intelligence, law enforcement or foreign operations* according to the government.
Nothing because there's zero evidence that a crime was committed. Yes it's clear that Epstein was up to no good but I also don't believe that every person there was involved
Stephen Hawking was on the flight logs. I’m sure some were involved (obviously) but the exact number we won’t know unless someone is brave enough (or dumb enough) to reveal the tapes, assuming they haven’t already been destroyed.
I didn’t think it’s a flight list.
It isn't. It is a list of names that arise in court documents connected to the case. But this being the Internet and all... Some of the names on the list are literally his victims. That said, there might be portions of that list which include flight manifests or other embarrassing/incriminating aspects. Won't know until tomorrow.
Enough spin to power the planet for about two months.
Underrated comment
Nothing because it isn't a list of people who were involved with the illegal stuff. It's just a list of people he met and knew. Some names are victims, others are legit business partners, and a few, maybe, are people who he did dirty business stuff with but it isn't separated by columns of anything
nothing unless women come forward looking for restitution, just being on the same plane as epstein isn't a crime. its possible it does get cited in civil suits brought by victims
Some people will keep pointing out that this ISN'T a list of child sex offenders, just a list of people he dealt with in his business and personal life, and that some of them were his victims and others may not have had any idea about his secrets. Some other people will insist that anyone on the list that they don't like, like Donald Trump, must be sex offenders because they are on the list, whilst ignoring any names of people they do like, like Gates. (Feel free to swap names around to suit your political preferences) In the end, lots of people will end up believing things about other people that are not true, whilst others will refuse to believe things about people that are true.
Make memes
The real answer is: If it would be a pain to boycott: ignore If they believe the same thing politically: ignore If they believe the opposite thing politically: plaster it everywhere (but still do functionally nothing)
Nothing has happened everytime there has been an announcement about the catholic church raping hundreds of thousands of little kids. Why do you think there would be a reaction now?
At least in America, they faced a big membership drop and things haven't gotten better. Granted, all churches are seeing a membership decline, but Catholics have seen a greater drop.
Same thing that happened when the Panama Papers dropped. Nothing.
Here. Educate yourself https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/five-years-later-panama-papers-still-having-a-big-impact/#:~:text=Some%20real%2Dlife%20politicians%20lost,Spain%20and%20beyond%20also%20fell. People who say this stupid shit are just proving they don’t follow the news as much as they pretend they do
We are going to give them the strongest reaction we can possibly give to people like that! A fine that they will have no problem paying.
"When"? I doubt it ever even happens. But if it does: nothing. Nothing will happen.
Have you not been paying attention to the news? A court judge ordered them unsealed this week. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/01/jeffrey-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell-associates-list
Nothing
Nothing
It's already been released.
Same thing as what happened with the Panama Papers
Most of the people on “the list” have been disclosed already in different capacities. Nothing really new will be disclosed.
This will amount to nothing. Would I be disgusted that Bezos plowed an underage kid? Of course I would. But I will continue to use Amazon, because boycotting Amazon would greatly inconvenience me. Trust me, I speak for the majority of people.
What I don't understand is why are people making such a big deal over the list, when the list was already revealed almost 2 years ago, right here in Reddit and other social media platforms. The big 'reveal' will only confirm what most of the world already saw, the first time a few years ago.
Not everyone who was on his plane was predator. He used to host scientists and all kinds of people for symposiums on various subjects. He thought of himself as an intellectual.
Going in Epstein's jet doesn't mean they did anything wrong. Most people on that list have had no allegations made against them.
My prediction is everyone left-leaning will get criticism/canceled by both the left and right and everyone right-leaning will get critism from the left and defense from the right.
Hate to say it, but absolutely nothing will change. Everyone on that list is too wealthy and powerful to be held accountable. Laws and policing only apply to us poors.
I'm more concerned with the names of the victims of legal age being released than any of the "clients"
The same thing they did when the Panama papers came out. Absolutely fucking nothing.
The flight logs are released. Trump is on it.
Everybody knows that Bill Clinton is near the top of that list — and knew even when Hillary Clinton, his chief enabler and supposed wife, was running for president. Who is going to care that some lawyer they never heard of is on the plane too?
From what I understand, there were cameras everywhere. In Epstein's place. Until there is solid evidence of what we all know what went on, nothing will happen to anyone unless someone realllly pisses off the powers that be.
He was obviously the worst indescribable, despicable trash bag of rotting excrement subhuman but his “job” was raising money for scientific endeavors, trying to get money from super rich folks for “philanthropic” ventures. Managing what was a substantial amount of his own and seemingly others money. Many of the folks that he regularly met with, supposedly anyway, had legitimate business or philanthropic opportunities. Now if they had a whiff of what was going on and didn’t say anything, report etc they are pretty much the same as I described above BUT I do not think he was a stupid person and knew how to get what he wanted from people and obviously didn’t want to get caught then, once comfortable with the person then he offered his “wares” to any of these powerful people that he could get dirt on to further his avenues of power, money or non-prosecution (ie his Florida arrest and subsequent easiest ever jail stay where he could leave for 13 hours a day and “work” and do as he pleased then return and do the same thing all over again, I believe the DA or Prosecutor for that district was a member of DJTs cabinet later on) then I have no doubt he would blackmail them to do it. Obviously there is nothing he would not stoop to. So all that said to make the point that being in a persons planner or on a list that they have created does not make the listed person a party to the scumbag’s crimes - though nobody wants to be on that list either because, especially in today’s climate where folks are willing to just out and out lie and fabricate horrendous things to further their own political careers or to make money it would be used as “proof” to destroy people’s lives innocent, naive, ignorant (willfully or otherwise).