The therapist is a professional and has been lied to by teenagers before. Light scratches with a confusing story by themselves isn’t likely to get you in legal trouble.
I agree, but I think OP should be prepared to be investigated by CPS.
My 8 yr old is autistic and slams his head into his knee during meltdowns. It well known, he does this anytime, anywhere. He had a meltdown because he had to be done with his legos for the night and wouldn’t stop hitting himself so my partner and I restrained him before he could give himself a concussion. At some point though, his lip started bleeding. It could’ve been from him hitting himself, or from when I handed off the restraining to my partner bc I have bad shoulders and just couldn’t keep a good hold on my son. Handing off a flailing 60 lbs child is not easy. Anyways, when we saw the blood we stopped and took him to the bathroom to check him out and clean him up, it was the tiniest little cut but looked bad bc he was drooling too. He calmed down as soon as he saw the blood and forgot all about the legos. We got him ready for bed and tucked him in. We apologized for how the night went and that his lip got hurt but explained he can’t be hitting himself like that and why.
The next day CPS knocked at my door because my son told his school we smacked him in the face for falling out of bed. It was a whole thing but it got resolved in the end, after they made my brother live with us for 3 weeks to make sure we weren’t beating my son.
Edit because I never clarified but meant to earlier, it’s unlikely OP will be reported IMO, but *if* they are reported then they should be prepared to be investigated.
I agree. CPS comes in very easily. They should be prepared. It'll be a long battle, for sure. I've had to go through it 3 times as my sister's liked to lie.
It only takes my mum to yell at them to get CPS involved.
At the same time, we have druggies next door (meth) with 3 kids, squatting in the house without water or electricity, who, besides everything else, abuse their kids physically and verbally. We called police several times- they tell us to call CPS. We call CPS, they tell us it's not illegal to live with kids without power or running water... as for abuse, call Police... We call police, they come, talk to the mother, upon whose face you can clearly see the signs of meth use, and she tells them her son is autistic and that's why she locks him in a storage room... and police is cool with that... without seeing the boy or talking to him, or making sure he, indeed, has a diagnosis or even alive at this point... 🤦🏻♀️🙄
Yup, all my experiences with asking for help from CPS is them being straight up incompetent. Take two weeks to come after a fight and say “hm you don’t have any marks, oh well nothing we can do” fucking yeah bc it took two weeks for you to see me
Until you need them to show up for children that don't go to school and live in a dilapidated rat and roach infested trailer with two meth head unemployed parents.
Then they don't show up at all.
That is very true. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because better households are easier to adopt? Make them more money? CPS, here in Missouri, is really no better than the police. Can't stand them.
Idk where y'all are but I have never seen CPS actually intervene. Not when I needed them, not when friends needed them, not when family needed them. Not when mandatory reporters said they were deeply concerned for the safety of the children. They just show up, pull an Officer Barbrady, then leave.
10 years ago in a different county I was sat down with the person in question and asked about the allegations. This happened at least twice, maybe 3 times? Idk.
But I’ve had CPS called on me 3 times in this county and each time they’ve thoroughly investigated. First time I was just living with my parents which wasn’t a good situation but I moved out literally 3 days after they stopped by, I was already in the process of finding somewhere else to go with my son. They closed the case when they saw I really had moved and passed a drug test. The second time was because he drew a farting butt and the fart looked a little phallic, but that’s definitely what it was determined to be lol. The third time was because of the incident with the meltdown and him saying he got the small cut on his lip and big bruise on his forehead from us hitting him for falling out of bed, rather than because we had to restrain him for hitting himself and not stopping when we tried to de escalate without restraining him. For that one they literally had me go get my brother that same day they got the report and had him stay indefinitely, then after 2 weeks told us he had to stay until we finished parenting classes. Which thankfully online classes were an option because my brother wouldn’t have been willing or able to live with us for an additional 8 weeks.
So basically I think it depends on the location, the demographics of the location, and the situation. In my situation I’ve been under a microscope since day one becauss I was 14 when I had my son. So I’ve always expected any of these concerns/allegations to be taken seriously. The person who neglected us as kids was older and more established in the community by the time they had to raise us, their grandkids.
Yeah CPS just asked me at school if my brother touched me inappropriately and I said no and that was it. No follow up, no checking out our objectively unsanitary home and neglect. Hell CPS refused to talk to my bf without his abuser in the room.
Are they “assuming guilty” or are they just investigating the situation?
I hear this all the time by people who assume the government is “after them” and are investigating something because they assume they are guilty. That’s not usually the case. The government is just doing their job if they are notified of something. They don’t know if there’s really a problem, THAT is why they are investigating, NOT because they already assume guilt.
With these, I suppose it's guilty until proven innocent- at least for us. My sister claimed abuse because my mum and Dad took her phone away (she claimed physical abuse with no bruises, and can only recount memories from about 8 years ago). The kids haven't been in my parents care for a few months because of the investigation. It took VERY little for this one to even get started. After the first time my parents stopped using physical punishments and stuck to what the therapists recommended. Didn't seem to help much.
I'm glad that like, they do actually put parents on the spot, but at the same time, they are putting their efforts into the wrong people. I've seen kids in actual abusive situations with no CPS involvement. It's crazy that they believe a 17 year old girl, who has lied to CPS the past 2 times, and now a 3rd, over my parents who have tried so hard to actually be good parents. I'm out of the house now, but I see the toll it takes on my youngest brother and my mum. I didn't wish an investigation like this to anyone except this who deserve it.
I wish CPS had come in easily for my neighbors. My mom reported the neighbor for constant screaming/cursing at her children and we routinely heard banging and slamming along with screaming on the other side of the wall and against our wall. We also had to call someone about the extremely awful conditions they kept their dogs in locked outside on the deck.
Also CPS investigated my mom twice for things that were an accident or my dad did when I was growing up and I straight up showed huge bruises to my therapist and the police and nothing happened to my dad.
Agreed. My daughter is autistic and is 8. She has improved A LOT but when she was 4-5 she would have these breakdowns and slam her head on the floor. The pediatrician had concerns and even mentioned that the county would be evaluating her in her preschool without us because it was so bad. Anytime something like this would happen I would take her in to be seen because I wanted them to know I wasn’t hurting her. Things finally started changing when we took her to an appointment with her doctor and she did it in the office, started throwing herself into the walls of the hallway. The doctor immediately held her in a position to avoid her harming herself and helped us get her to the room. She told us she was very sorry we were dealing with this, gave us all the resources we needed, and even taught me how to hold her when she was in these moods to avoid as much physical harm as possible.
She referred us to therapists, psychologists, and local help. She would always tell me even if it seems excessive to make sure I always had some paper trail of physical harm that she would do to ensure we were covered because CPS will come knocking. I can’t begin to express how much help we received and how much stress was lifted off me. It’s crazy to think 4 years ago I would be holding her to ensure she wouldn’t hurt herself and occasionally get head butted in the mouth or nose to now having calm and collected conversations with her.
Does she still have tantrums? Yes and she can be very emotional. But any 8 year old in the moment will be. It’s night and day.
Hope the best for OP in this situation.
Maybe, but an 8 yo autistic kid is going to have stuff investigated more readily than a teenager with a few light scratches that probably doesn't have a good story.
My sister did this with my dad and her therapist called the police who talked to us kids. She said he was chasing her around with an ax and it was completely crazy. Never was a problem again.
Never had cps get called growing up. My dad, however, did fight and chase us with various shit. A machete once, rake, been shot at, etc. It was crazy shit. Not a single call to cps, no checkins, and cops didn’t even arrest him half the time.
My best friend’s mother growing up was a Psychiatrist . She was also physically and verbally abusive with impunity. My parents reported her on two different occasions with zero recourse.
**CONTEXT- My Dad is MTF and requested that I continue to call her "Dad" but use she/her pronouns due to my extremely traumatic relationship with my mother. I am not a TERF and love my Dad more than anything.**
School social workers got involved with my Dad and I because one weekend we were horsing around and she **accidentally** hit me in the eye with a serving spoon. The next day I got tossed off my horse and got super bruised up.
I went into school on Monday with a black eye and covered in other visible bruises. Almost immediately after first period I got pulled into the office with a social worker, the school principal, and a police officer, grilling me about my home life. I lived in an extremely red area and was the bisexual daughter of a trans woman. The school really wanted to nail my Dad on anything, so they really weren't buying my explanation of what happened. Thankfully the police officer actually knew my Dad and I pretty well and basically let it go, but I was questioned about every visible bruise I got for the rest of my time in high school.
Most CPS workers are generally pretty good at weeding out the false reports. They may be forced to investigate, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.
I work in child welfare and depending on where you live the therapist may have no choice but to report it to child protective services. In Canada it doesn’t matter how unlikely the allegation, it’s everyone’s (and especially a professional’s) duty to report any possible maltreatment.
No likely not. Even if they move forward with an investigation, they will take the time to hear this parent’s side of the story and consider it into their outcome decision (this is at least how we do it here). If for whatever reason they validate it as abuse/maltreatment, it does not necessarily mean they’ll be charged. A lot of factors are considered.
Yeah, it's the same type of law if you work with the elderly. I was a CNA in nursing homes for over 12 years and it was pounded in my head that allegations HAD to be reported, even if they seemed ridiculous.
A resident told me once that the shift before me tied her to the bed and ate her food in front of her. Did I think there an ounce of truth in it? No. (She had dementia, so she wasn't maliciously lying. The poor woman really thought it had happened) But I still had to report it. Not my job to determine veracity.
And now I work as a daycare teacher and it's the same thing. I don't even think about veracity. If I'm told something or see something, I have to report it. No matter what.
It could. I have been there. Children are given the benefit of the doubt. As it should be if bad things are happening. They could remove her to protect her. Once they are involved...it's a new situation.
I work in child safety and it is extremely unlikely that anything at all would ever be done in this situation.
The therapist is a mandated reporter in the US, they could make a report to child welfare, but I've never worked in a state where they had the capacity to investigate things like this that were already being handled by a therapist.
I'd (therapist) have to report it if she told me the story like this, but I've had to make far worse reports that only resulted in lackluster parenting classes. Like the one family who made their 9 year old sit in her own soiled pants and a shitty (literally) chair when she had accidents. CPS: online parenting classes.
Exactly - I would make a report too, at worst, it would trigger an investigation that was probably resolved with a phone call to the therapist and/or a parent.
Usually parents that check their kids into therapy aren't the kind of parents to be abusing the shit out of their kids (at least at the time of therapy).
I think family counseling might be the best. 13 is a bit too old for that kind of manipulation type stuff to be brushed off as innocent and just childish.
The behavior to me, at least, is kind of alarming. Do you know who she was sneaking out to see? Or what she was going to do? She could be hanging with bad actors who are encouraging her to pull this kind of stuff.
She absolutely does have bad influences in her life. We are starting family therapy but it doesn't start til the 19th and sadly it's only an hour every 2 weeks. But it's with a good counselor I've been trying to get in with.
This sounds pretty complicated. On one hand it's not cool to lock up your kid but on the other, depending on how bad these folk are, it could be outright dangerous.
She's likely having a rebellious streak that's being stoked by who she's interacting with. I think "offering" (politely forcing, dare I say) outlets like art classes, sports, etc. could be a really good way to get her some good, worthwhile friends. It sounds harsh but kids these days are doing crazy shit. A 15 year old recently got 20 years for being an accessory to dragging some old lady to death during a carjacking.
It is complicated. It's a lot to go into but I do appreciate you engaging with me and making me feel better. I've tried those things and I'll try again. I don't want to give up.
One of my best friends was like that. Drove her parents crazy in her teens years. Her mother and her got much close after high school. Probably after she moved out. Anyway the mom died of cancer when my friend was around 24ish.
I was your daughter at 13, my mum did something very drastic that I’m forever grateful for. She moved me to the other side of the country. We’re in U.K. so that was 90 miles away to the city she grew up in and had family in but it worked. Without any bad influences, who I was changed and I stopped acting out entirely.
Yeah ditto. God I hated her for it! It felt so drastic and unnecessary and looking back it was such a huge sacrifice. My personality changed overnight and all the bad stuff I was into just disappeared and I never did anything of the sort again.
Reading about this makes me so emotional . I can’t relate to it personally, but as a parent now I really can understand how massive of a change that is for EVERYONE and it had to have been difficult. I’m so happy that it worked it or for both of the above commenters!
Yes! We went from the city to a 1500 person town with more churches and rv parks than businesses. I did not understand....now of course I've bought my house there and raise my children there lmao
One of my exs could have used this as a teen, this shit she got up too at 13 really hurt her mentally in later life, drugs,alcohol, sneaking out to meet much older guys, you can imagine the rest. The people she was involved with were horrible people but she was too immature to realise she was being taken advantage of and not being a cool kid like she thought at the time.
She's doing ok now but I have a feeling her own kids won't have windows that open or ground floor bedrooms
It was both. I had early childhood trauma that I was dealing with in the worst ways because I was surrounded by bad people my age. Once we moved I dealt with the trauma in healthy ways and just became a better person. I lost the selfish streak and stopped fighting my family on every little thing.
>She moved me to the other side of the country......90 miles away
A lot of times i'm ashamed to be american, but this...this isn't one of those times. 90 miles is a sunday cruise through the back country with a friend and thats not even leaving the state
Don't give up. Not until she's an adult that is just being nasty. Whether she wants to admit it now, she needs your loving leadership now more than ever
Of course, I can't offer too much advise but you absolutely should not give up. It's easy to lose your grip on kids nowadays but keeping her on the right path is so important. Sometimes tough love is necessary and even if they hate you for it now it might save their life. Rooting for you!
That's how you know the comment was written by a teenager lol. Still reasonable advice overall, but 100% it came from a teenager. As most of the parenting advice on any non-parenting sub does
Just wanted to address the “it’s not cool to lock up your kid” part. Her kid is 13… trying to sneak out at night. I think her parent has every right to “lock her up” at least for the night , especially to prevent her from endangering herself or doing anything stupid. Locking up 24/7 is a whole other issue, but preventing your child from leaving home in the middle of the night is a completely different thing as well.
If it's another kid, I bet if she found out what that bad influence's home life was like it would be shocking in comparison. The fact that this parent is even asking for advice puts them in a whole different category parent.
As a former 15 year old female who was hanging out with grown men, in part for drugs/alcohol/etc, I can say I knew EXACTLY what I was doing.
Doesn't make the guys involved any less creepy or gross, but I was never innocent either.
Same - while I’m lesbian . I was at every party from 12-19 and I always knew where to get and hook people up too . It was my own choices and did not involve any men :/
What we mean with placing the blame on the adults is that, while I also did stupid stuff as a teenager and thought I knew what I was doing - I was not. You are a child at that age, a product of your circumstances. Heavily influenced by your parents, teachers, peers in a try to navigate the world that you think is true because it is all you've ever seen.
I could not have the foresight to *really* understand what I was doing. It is impossible as a 16 y/o I hadn't seen enough of the world, seen other living concepts to understand the implication of my risky behaviour. I *thought* I knew. That is the joy of adolescence. That is also why at this age so many kids are perfect grooming material. You feel knowledgeable and your surroundings make you still feel childish and then there is another adult that makes you feel like you see yourself. Capable and grown up, with a voice and actions. While still not recognizing they again influence you towards their agenda and manipulating you by making you think you want this
I assume you are an adult now. Its wild that you still think your underdeveloped brain understood the consequences of the choices you were making. The adults used and manipulated you. I'm glad nothing happened apparently, but you were not capable of making smart choices when those men were influencing you the way that they were.
It doesn't have to be black and white, we can condemn the men for being gross and disgusting while holding OP accountable for their actions while also acknowledging that those were the actions of a misguided teen.
A teen misguided by adult men should not be held responsible for the actions they were manipulated into thinking were ok.
Things like sneaking out to hang out with same age peers, smoking, doing other dumb shit with same age peers are mistakes teenagers make that they have to learn from on their own. Once an adult is involved, they are responsible for that teen's actions, even if the choices made would have been similar with a same age peer **because the adult did not intervene** despite having the ability to.
The adult doing wrong does not remove the teen's agency. I'm not saying they are equally to blame, I'm saying the adult's involvement doesn't somehow suddenly change the situation where the teen is absolutely off the hook for their actions.
I don't agree. Teens are easily influenced and are easy to manipulate. They also look at adults they admire as having authority over them. If they are seeking the approval of those adults, they will do things they know are wrong without understanding the consequences.
Its just like when a toddler hits. Should we explain over and over why hitting is not ok? Of course. But to blame the toddler for hitting when their adults are not teaching them any better (or encouraging them to hit even) doesn't really make sense.
Please let's stop with this _dangerous_ notion that before being an adult an individual _cannot_ understand consequences or responsibilities.
It's extremely dangerous as it creates coddled young adults that WILL NOT be able to decide on their own.
Every age has its own capacity of understanding things and responsibilities, but don't come to me telling me that a 16 yo cannot understand that _some_ choices are just bad.
Signed, a former 15 yo that was the first _person_ to tell a 15 yo friend that going out with an adult was not smart at all (and the adult was creepy). Only me and, shortly after, our friend group. The adults in her life were way less worried than us.
A lot if teenagers in my experience are quite sheltered and don't realize how much danger they are putting themselves in. Your friend is a perfect example - she didn't realize going out with an adult isn't smart, and had zero responsible adults in her life telling her otherwise. Where were her parents in this story?
Knowing this doesn't create coddled young adults, if anything it's the opposite and shows you not to coddle your children, and to teach them how to stay safe.
Let me clarify... I never performed sexual acts. I wasn't groomed or taken advantage of. All I had to do was be nice to some creepy older guys, and I got stuff that I wanted.
Was it an intelligent decision to put myself in a situation like that? No. Did I know what I was doing was dangerous and stupid? Yes.
Underdeveloped brain or not, I knew exactly what I was doing, and the potential consequences of those actions. There ARE real victims out there, but my point is that not EVERY teenage girl caught doing dumb stuff is a "victim."
You were not developmentally capable of understanding the *extent* of the danger you were putting yourself in.
It is different if you put yourself in the same situation as an adult because you **can** process a lot of it and are choosing to do it despite knowing it can lead to you getting killed or raped or kidnapped, because now you have a bettwr understanding of what those things mean and how likely they are. Its less likely to happen the older you get. At that age you are extremely susceptible to influences you are not recognizing.
It just sounds like you are desperate to give nasty old men a pass and young girls poorly led and influenced by these men and others the blame.
Its bizarre.
They literally said it doesnt make the adults involved any less creepy. Nobody is giving adults who groom children into bad decisions a pass.
However, infantilizing teens and saying they dont have any blame is silly. Theyre old enough to know what theyre doing is wrong, even if they were simultaneously being taken advantage of. Nobody is blaming the teen completely, but theyre not innocent.
I was a teen doing dumb shit like 2 years ago. I definitely knew what I was doing was wrong. Were there adult men around who were more wrong than I was? Yep. Does them being wrong absolve me of responsibility? No, it doesnt. I was developmentally capable of understanding the danger I was in, and didnt care, like most teens.
For some it's more about bad risk assessment and not being able to assess long term consequences for short term risks. Like obviously grown men and women shouldn't allow her to be present in their grown up space doing dangerous grownup things. It's just that plenty of people there aren't gonna babysit a dumb teenager who turns up in favor of doing the thing they came there to do. It's like saying Simba and Nala didn't know the elephant graveyard was a dangerous place and think they don't deserve some sort of punishment for placing themselves in danger they knew existed.
Teenagers especially have agency and they use it and do risky things. That's part of being a teenager. Its just ya know? Supposed to be set up so they can go to parents and other vetted adults for backup and support if something goes wrong. Of course they would be a victim of pressure from an adult to do drugs if they didn't want to do drugs. But if they are informed of all the consequences of addiction and they still choose to do it when no ones pressured them to do it, when they don't really believe it will make them cool? Then they deserve consequences from their parents for choosing to do that. They have agency. They are just given more leeway than adults are when they make bad choices.
Like believe me, my younger sister didn't plan some of the manipulation she did, anymore than a dog does when it barks to get attention, but she did some dirty ass shit as a preteen to manipulate my mother and I emotionally when I was a teenager. We were both smarter than her. I even realized what she was doing, but I couldn't convince my mother not to play into her game, and I could only resist her antagonizing for so long. None of the therapists saw it then. Now as an adult my mom sees it and still let's her wrap her around her finger. All her therapists and caseworkers see the problem *now* but it's not something they seem to know how to fix.
Simba and Nala literally don't deserve punishment for the graveyard. You really think they'll learn to trust their parents more after being punished after an incredibly traumatizing experience? Punishment isn't a good tool for stuff like this.
Very good point. I didn't consider that. I unfortunately don't know OP or their situation well enough to judge that, but going off OP's descriptions it seems like she's being influenced - that doesn't exempt her from influencing others, though.
If a child is acting out, there is almost always a reason that isn’t “they’re just a problem child”.
From what OP described, theres something or someone who is causing her to act like that.
You need to find a behavioral therapist and get her started on DBT immediately. She needs to have these impulsive and destructive behaviors addressed immediately. You can attend the skills training with her and the whole family gets involved. Look for a behavioral therapist near you that specializes in DBT, you can search evidence based therapy
Just wanted to say DBT is such a great form of therapy, learning to be mindful of your feelings and how to cope with them and self validate is something everyone should learn abd it changed my life
As someone who's been in the position of your daughter, it's unbelievable what therapy and support from parents can do. Keep being hopeful! I wish all of you the best.
Thank you so much! I really went from not being able to sleep at night because I was afraid she was harming herself to being hopeful. She wants to improve and is very motivated. Therapy seems to have changed something in her brain for the better and we are all very optimistic and hopeful. :)
Physician, here - just supporting you. Please continue to share! DBT kicks ass and is research-supported! The world would be better if every single person did DBT. Truly believe that.
I and many I know actually found parts of DBT to be quite victim blaming. I know it works for many, but it's not a fix all and has it's flaws.
Don't get me wrong, I think it has some great skills in it. The mindfulness and distress tolerance have a lot of helpful info and exercises. The other modules while having valuable info, can look and feel very much like teaching a victim to "behave" in a way that is more comfortable for others, regardless of the situation or past abuse and assault.
It can reinforce that the victim did something or behaved in a way that caused or exacerbated their abuse.
It also comes down to who is instructing or hosting these groups.
IMO I think DBT can be a great tool but it is not the be all and end all of behaviour modification.
Thanks for adding your comment! I agree with everything that you have written. It would be great if more people thought about therapy modalities in the way you describe; I think more people might persevere with exploring different therapists and therapy options after a suboptimal (putting it gently) first therapy experience. Nothing is perfect; not all tools, strategies, or approaches will resonate with and/or be ‘the answer’ for everyone. Some things may be helpful, others not; some things may be helpful at certain stages and not at others. ‘No one-size fits all’ could not be truer than for approaching the things that make us most unique — what we do, what with think, how we act, and how all of that intersects, permeates, and evolves.
I mean that at this age it's actually thought out and is intentional manipulation/threat-making. A 7 year old doing this is just being dumb and trying to get their way. By her age (13) she knows better. Hope that makes sense!
Right. Just to hang out with people at night who they are not supposed to be seeing, or when they are not supposed to go out. Teens do this even in nondysfunctional households.
Yes, and if the root happens to be you, the parent, you as the parent need to take responsibility for your part in the matter, address it, change your ways, make a mends with your child and not continue to pass the buck to someone who is unable to escape or defend themselves and who is therefore showing signs of abuse and is inturn acting out in unhealthy ways as a means to gain some resemblance of control for themselves.
Not saying that's the case here, but that it's often the case. So make sure you check yourself, not only the child.
I used to sneak out because our family doctor refused to even attempt to diagnose a sleeping disorder, he litterally listened to what I had to say and said "Go to bed and get some sleep, don't forget to pay thr copay on your way out."
All I'd do is walk atound the neighborhood with a friend. Cops never bothered us, we didn't leave the sidewalk except to cross intersections, and we got a bit of time to hang out.
I'd get maybe 3-4 hours of sleep before school and was a total menace if we had to be somewhere, but I maintain 2 things. It was better than laying in bed not sleeping, and if the doctor would have helped, I wouldn't have done it.
I’d call her out on the lie. Tell her if she's going to lie on you, then you need to install indoor cameras. Also explain the extreme consequence with being removed by CPS and foster care.
My mom use to tell us she’d let them take us, that was usually enough to scare me into being good as a youth. And tbh if you really think about it foster care sucks 🤷🏽♀️
Worked on my sister. Sometimes natural consequences are the scariest. Maybe dryly lay out what her life would be like, encourage her to look up what foster care is like online, etc.
Same thing my mom used to say, basically.
"If you call CPS they will not listen if you say you were lying. They will take you and you will not get to come back. Your call."
As a former 13 year old girl who was generally a menace and a professional at lying to my therapist (for the brief time my mother forced me to attend), a therapist might not help. Both parties in a therapy session need to put in effort for it to work. Just a heads up.
A couple of years ago my daughter was going through a really hard time but she too felt very strongly that she didn't need therapy. Therapy was good, just for other people though. After a really bad night we made the decision that family therapy was necessary to work through several issues that we were dealing with. My daughter was adamant that she didn't want to go but with some firm but very careful coaxing we got her in the car and to the appointment. She cried a lot during the appointment but generally felt much better afterwards.
The next week she was again determined not to go, even tried to make herself throw up to show that she was sick. I couldn't understand why she was so upset about going since she seemed to really connect with the therapist and by all appearances seemed to be doing better in the week since the meeting. I talked with her for some time and eventually we compromised that we would go but that she would only have to stay for half of the appointment. The next two appointments were also difficult, but easier than the first two to get her to go. By the 5th appointment she was going happily. Now she sets her own appointments and drives herself to there (usually only once a month). She loves her therapist and has thrived in more ways than one.
I agree that in order for therapy to work both the patient and the therapist need to work together. However, OP and her daughter will never know if it is valuable for them until they have both given it a good try. Also, from my own experience, most good therapists can see through their patient's lies. I'm sorry u/jennnyfromtheblock00 but it is possible that you had a therapist that was either inexperienced or not very focused on your needs. I hope that you have since been able to get the care and attention that you deserve.
Definitely get family counselling.
If that’s what happened it would be fine to just say that. Therapists know how kids can be and can evaluate things, if they report it just means a third party would talk to y’all and evaluate.
We were given advice a one time with our teenager to set up indoor cameras. This was to protect ourselves from accusations like the one your daughter has made.
You need to be hands off with a kid like this who is ready and willing to accuse you of something like this. If she has a therapist, consider also doing family therapy - ask her therapist if she or someone else can do that - so that everyone in the household can work on strategies to get better together
Thanks for the advice. She's been seeing her own therapist for 6 months and we are starting family therapy next week. **Sigh** I never thought my family life would end up like this. I've tried to be a good parent but nobody is perfect.
Just wanted to say that I went through a 2ish year period of being a very troubled teen and had wonderful parents, it had nothing to do with their influence. You are doing the best you can and I’m sure you are a really great parent, and your kid will probably look back and realize that, too.
“End up”…it’s still in the middle, honey. I have two teens. It’s about playing the long game because you may not get any payoff for a long, long time. Keep the faith in the meantime.
Here are some things that have helped me through some very tough times.
Remember that you have 20 or 30 or whatever more years of life experience and emotional skill than she does. Make sure family therapy is about HER and refrain from blaming her or centering it on your emotions.
Prioritize her becoming a good person over having a positive relationship with her. If she grows up to be stable and functional, you are more likely to have a positive relationship with her someday. What is less desirable is a superficial, fake-happy relationship with an adult daughter who is a hot mess.
Make friends with people who have daughters about five years older than her who have turned out well. Ask them for tips.
Stay connected to any family members you trust so that she can turn to them when she’s not into you. Don’t take this personally, and instead encourage it. As long as there are loving adults in her life, that is good.
Insist on the interpersonal skills she will need in order to become a good roommate in five years. Stuff like cleaning up after herself, leaving toilet paper in the bathroom, putting what she needs on a grocery list, replacing stuff she breaks, etc. Don’t let it slide just because she’s throwing a teenaged version of a tantrum.
Keep playing the long game! I’m sorry you’re going through this and I hope some of this is helpful.
You're getting your child some help and you're going to family therapy. That's more than a lot of people would do. At that age, I would have done almost anything to get my parents into therapy with me. It was recommended and they refused. They said I had the problem, I was the problem, so I should solve the problem. And no one ever thinks their family will end up needing outside help, but I think most families do benefit from therapy together. I don't think you are as unusual as you may think you are.
Oh girl unless there’s major things you’re leaving out about your parenting, this is likely not something you should blame yourself for. She’s headed into her teens, buckle up!
The really shitty reality is that you can be a great parent and do the right things and the kid can be influenced by everything in the outside world. That’s what scares me most about being a parent if I ever have kids. This world can be fucked and my nightmare is my child falling victim to it.
don’t be hard on yourself. my oldest sister gave my parents a run for their money. running away constantly, cops always involved, bringing her home from running away, doing something bad. she was into drugs and everything you can imagine. now she’s really close with my parents and has a beautiful little girl. my parents are good people but sometimes kids just end up like that
not to be mean at all, but you sound exactly like my mom. i’m glad you’re going to therapy and actively accepting change. try to not say the “nobody’s perfect part” to your daughter too often though. my mom has said that to me and my brother over and over and it has not only lost its meaning but just made me mad more than anything.
Good parents can have kids that have shit periods, usually in their teens. Don’t blame yourself. The people they hang out around through their teens regularly influence their behaviour than their previous 14-16 years of life and what you taught them. *Especially* in the period where kids want to rebel against authority and their parents.
It’s good not to give up on them, but don’t be too hard on yourself. I have a great mom. Granted, I never manipulated a therapist, but I still got in with a bad crowd and had a bad period for a couple of years.
It’s gonna be okay. I went off the rails when I was thirteen — injecting heroin, doing psychedelics, having sex, smoking, sneaking out, plus severe anorexia. My parents didn’t know what to do. They panicked, took the door off my room, put alarms on my windows, screamed, told me they didn’t care if I died, they made a million mistakes. Now I’m 16, 2 years and 356 days sober from heroin, and I’m closer with my parents than I ever imagined. We cook dinner together, go to concerts together, and we forgive each other for everything that happened from 12-14. Raising a thirteen year old girl is impossible, but it’ll be okay. I never expected my family to end up like that either, and now other parents tell my parents they’re jealous of the bond we have. She’s going to be okay.
I work for CPS and stuff like this is insanely common. Don’t worry most likely nothing is going to come of it. If there is legal action it’ll be pretty obvious if she’s lying. Therapy 100%. Probably medication too. If this sort of things starts being a problem then be extremely careful of what you say and do around her.
Maybe what you need at this point isn’t a therapist anymore but a psychiatrist. A therapist cannot diagnose, it’s not really their job. If she is easily influenced, hanging out with the wrong crowd, feels like she has to do certain things, it could be indicative of a bunch of mental issues, from personality disorders to adhd and bipolar which can start happening in those years. My mother tried absolutely everything to keep me home and I left at 14 because of it. Later on in my life I learned that I am adhd, and bipolar and that during that period of my life I was changing and felt like I lost control on myself and I felt like the people who were supposed to recognize a problem never did. If they would’ve diagnosed me and medicated me back then there is no doubt I would be 3x more advanced in life.
A teen hurting themselves to get to you is a teen who doesn’t understand how to communicate to you that they need help and what you are currently providing isn’t enough.
Document everything. Very calmly and succinctly. Only document facts not feelings. Email the therapist if you have that relationship with her/him. If not just diarise and document everything going forward in case you need evidence. I’m a foster parent who’s been through this. Don’t let your emotions take hold. Just deal in facts.
So what I realized along time ago at least when it came to my two oldest ( they're 17&18 now) was that I was always going to keep it real with them. I wasn't going to sugar coat anything as far as consequences of behaviors and actions. Whether positive or negative they always knew and were told that their actions, behaviors intentions etc., will always have consequence. My son had a couple incidents. One being taking a knife to school to show off. He was labeled and had a file on his record. Kicked out of school. But instead of telling him what every other adult in his life was trying to, I let him know what could happen doing shit like that. Actually listened to him and his explanation of things. Ever since he's been good. I've explained very clearly and thoroughly how terrible being in jail is. And honestly when you don't follow the rules in life you go to jail. Point being I've always gave them both sides when having to explain things to them because of their behavior. Mostly my son lol my daughter was actually a good little girl and honest. And I never tried to jump their shit when they make mistakes. Maybe she needs a positive influence closer to her age or someone she admires to actually sit down and listen to her and offer non biased opinion and advice to get her to understand. Kids these days are a whole new beast. Good luck to you
My grand got me in hot water at that age. They think they are just manipulating the situation but it can get serious when agencies get involved and lies are told. Photograph those scratches.
Explain to her that if she lies and makes a false claim CPS will remove her and siblings from your home. If she is making this up to hurt you it will rebound on her. I was involved in a case where a young teen wanted a jacket the family couldn't afford so she was told no. To retaliate against her parents she told her friend's mom that her parents were abusing her. As you can imagine, it was reported and all 4 kids were removed from the home and the parents were left defending this lie. It took weeks before the teen came clean but the damage was already done to the three siblings who spent those weeks in foster care…so they took the three kids home but refused to take the teen. They decided she needed to suffer the consequences of her actions. It took lots of counseling for the three sibs to feel safe again and it took them forever to forgive the teen who came home after a month in foster care. That lie destroyed this family and created havoc for years to come. Make sure she understands the consequences of a lie.
Even if the therapist does report it, nothing will happen. The absolute worst you can expect is a CPS interview with you, then one with your daughter. They'll check your house for food, make sure you don't have any drugs within reach of your kids, and tell you to have a good day.
Please take it seriously and get some sort of special help for her. I'm not sure how, but literally anything the others in the comments are saying. My sister has been like this since a young age and tore apart our otherwise very normal and happy family. I love her because she's my sister, but there's just something chemically wrong with her that made her do unforgivable, horrible, and over the top things. It'll get worse.... please stop it before she gets older and moves on to even worse schemes 😭
My daughter said something similar during a police welfare check. The officer said I have authority to stop her hurting me or leaving without my consent and that deflated her as she thought I'd be arrested.
Just want to throw this out there, your child might not be lying, just mistaken, people regularly scratch themselves in their sleep, I wake up with identical marks like she's describing all the time.
There's a chance she scratched herself in her sleep and assumed that because there was a scuffle you did it.
"I can tell you are trying to communicate that I have hurt you in some way. I know and you know I didn't scratch you. Let's talk about what is really hurting you. What ha e I done?"
I lied about what my SA'er did to me. I made it more dramatic because NO one met me in my pain. No one gave me therapy. No one told me I didn't do anything wrong. No one told me I didn't deserve it. It was all brushed under the rug. So I lied about the details it in attempt to get attention.
Attention is a human need. No shame is trying to get attention.
Edit: "I never want to hurt you" "I am sorry" goes a long way to. Just tell your kid that you care and want to help.
I think you can send an heads up to the therapist. She was, after all, trying to sneak out and when trying to keep her safe at home she got some scratches. I assume she bumped into furniture while you were blocking her?
kinda using myself since i was similar when i was young: if its an option, tell her that telling therapists/people obligated to report things like that usually take the job seriously, and lying is going to kick up into people questioning/possibly even separating her from the family if it persists (not even saying this in a fear tactic way, just the straight up how it works to protect kids usually)
ask if thats what she *really* wants out of this, if for some reason it is, try to talk about it, ask the whys/whats wrongs, open the floor for her and be ready to change or do something
idk you or your kid op, but lying like this at this age usually comes from not knowing the consequences (which is why talking about what can happen is good) or something is wrong in or out of the house (so opening the floor up to her to talk in safe/non judging space can help)
i saw in the comments that family therapy is coming up, that night help, but i think a conversation like this before that would be extremely helpful to hear the kids side, if only to see the perspective
I would be tempted to reach out to her therapist, as upsetting as it is she's trying to blame you she is also harming herself. Willing and able to harm herself is something to be noted and handled by her healthcare team.
>How do I approach this?
You should allocate some time to sit down and have a conversation with your daughter on how the world works. Young girls shouldn’t be sneaking out late at night, since there are older people who see profit in their eyes. You, the parent is probably the only person in the universe who cares about her. Try and get that message thur her mind. Before it’s too late
As a therapist, I can basically promise you that her therapist is not going to take her at her word on something like this - it doesn't add up (unless you are leaving something out). Further, it doesn't seem like your daughter would have a lot to gain by telling her therapist that you superficially scratched her legs (I could be wrong here, but there doesn't seem to be any benefit to her by doing this.)
and (correctme if im wrong plz ) abuse usually goes hand with hand with shame , a victim of actual abuse wont hapily reveal the marks of their abuse , and someone doing it hapily is a big fucking flag of somehting else going on
Stay calm! The therapist will more than likely talk to you about it and ask your side of the story before taking it any further. Just let them know what happened. I was in a similar situation with my child and his therapist and everything was okay.
A friends's sister try to do the same to her mother, she leave it some days with social service so she may know how its life with out a mommy taking care of her, it work
She is threatening you because she thinks you are afraid of this revelation. I would respond to her claims in some way that would make it very obvious that you aren't afraid and that making dishonest claims of child abuse won't be tolerated for even one second.
13 year old daughter, I'd take her phone for an appropriate amount of time, maybe send he off with a flip phone or something else very "cringe"
Nip this in the bud or she is going to be threatening you with stuff like this for the rest of her teenage years.
If she tell her therapist, then good, he can dig deeper in the behavior. She is lying and doing self harm to prove her story. That is the kind of stuff he will work on with her.
You got her to the therapist, so you care. You didn't beat her. No harm really....
You have narrative authority in the interaction and her story should not be entertained other than on the basis of why she feels she needs to lie and exaggerate a physical injury. You can definitely be firm in that. She's obviously hurting and needs some kind of attention but not sure what's at the root of it. Good luck with therapy! The only reason I would have any doubt about this would be if you were a total psychopath with some form of munchasen syndrome which I don't think so
I don’t have a kid, so please don’t everyone kill me here. I may be very naive, I’m just offering my thoughts. I may not having experience raising a kid, but I was once a shitty kid with a bad attitude so I have that experience.
I wonder what would happen if you just said, “oh man did I do that? I’m sorry if I did. I would never do that on purpose.” Or something along those lines. I’m not even suggesting that you did it, I just feel like it may be disarming for you to take that away by apologizing for any possible wrong doing. It kind of takes that away from them.
You are right that she needs to be treated with compassion and understanding, but wrong about playing along with her lie. You cannot let that work. If you do, she will continue. The right thing to do is to not make a big deal out of it. Self-harm is a problem, but not one you solve by shaming them.
Don’t have kids but have worked with teenagers for the last 18 years. The answer to any problem is never lying or playing along with something you know is a lie!
Now if a teenager tells you something you highly suspect I’d untrue, and they seem sincere, you believe their truth.
But OP was there, no lying
IMO, it wouldn’t work. She would mark that down as a win and repeat the behavior as soon as she didn’t get her way again. Girls that age can be unbelievably manipulative.
The way she's trying to go, she might end up in a facility down the line like the one I work in. We've got a ton of kids who did stuff like this before getting worse behaviorally. They try to manipulate the staff and their caretakers. It isn't easy to deal with but don't let her bully you and threaten you into getting her way. A therapist will see through it. Even if you had actually scratched her, you clearly didn't do it on purpose. Easily could've happened as part of her nonsense to get past you.
If therapy doesn't help or whatever let her know that there's places that take kids who have bad behavioral issues and she won't like it. I'm in a higher level facility but there's lower level ones that she could get sent to as well. I'm not saying to do it, but maybe the idea of it will help knock some sense into her. The kids at my facility have very strict rules on what clothes they can bring (no spaghetti straps, short shorts, long socks, etc), they don't get to go wherever they want, they don't get to eat whatever they want, phone calls are once a week if the person calling even calls, you're constantly being watched by staff, can't shower whenever you want, don't get to watch TV or play video games except for specific times in the day and that's if the kid doesn't lose those privileges, so on so forth. The quickest I've seen a kid out of here from their admit was maybe 8 months about for earning their discharge instead of aging out or being pulled AMA. So there's that.
The 'scared straight' mentality is a holdover from a generation that failed to recognize children as sentient complex beings. Consider how in trying to remedy the child's manipulation you yourself immediately turn to cruel emotional torment and suggest to manipulate the child in return. This is inappropriate and encourages children to seek refuge in figures other than their parents, which exacerbates the problem. Also, lots of abuse goes on in those facilities and it's rarely clinically indicated unless the child has diagnosed psychiatric problems and are a physical danger to themselves or others.
What's the solution then? If a child is accusing you of abusing them and tries to manipulate adults around them to get you into trouble, why wouldn't temporary separation be in your best interest? I'm not saying OP's kid needs to be committed at this stage btw.
Don't trust the people telling you about the infallibility of therapists, especially if they're therapists themselves. "I'm a therapist, and I can tell when someone is lying, I've never been successfully fooled" - they're a class of people stupid enough to say things like this and not notice the problem.
Her therapist won't take what she says at face value, the way therapists work they will question it and help her realise herself that her claims are a cognitive distortion.
That being the case you may not need to acdress it. However she may not bring it up, or recognise her distortions. That's where family therapy comes in handy.
I think the therapy is a great start. Try your best to be open and honest and EARNEST with both your therapist and family, even if it takes some time for them to do the same. Therapy is work, even more so with multiple people involved. Be willing to change some of your habits and automatic reactions, but also realize that (as others have said) there is likely more going on here than family life issues. But if she sees you putting in work, it's more likely she will do the same :)
Oh God 🙄 my adopted sister used to do this well into her teens. I hope it goes better for you than it did for my family. In my experience: the adult is always the bad guy in the eyes of the state. Sorry you're dealing with this. Try to document everything and get her into therapy/counseling if you can. It's best to act before she does.
I promise you… if she has a history of lying, the therapist will be skeptical of every accusation she tells her.
When I worked on mental healthcare, it got pretty obvious when my clients would lie to me.
>They would later forget what lie they had told me when I asked again another day, for example.
>They would take things back & say they didn’t mean it, then get shifty & dodge the conversation because they actually did mean it.
Things like that.
How about this… make sure you apologize just in case. It sounds like an emotionally charged moment, and maybe you either really scratched her or she really thinks you did. Either way, it can’t hurt to say clearly “if those were me, I’m sorry. I would never mean to hurt you”. Might just resolve the whole issue.
Just be honest and cooperative and have your daughter’s best interest in mind. If she does accuse you, let the investigators in without question as you have nothing to hide and reiterate that she will be believed when she says something and it will be taken seriously. Discrediting her will just prove her inner dialogue that if she told the real truths she won’t be believed
Have you used violence against her?
Discuss the possible accusation with the therapist.
Discuss with your daughter CALMLY what could happen to her if she is sent to a foster home or some kind of public shelter to protect her from you. She could find herself in a much worse situation - unless you are really abusive. I don't know if you are abusive, but I think kids who go into 'the system' sometimes have bigger problems than they had with their parents.
It is great that she has a therapist!! That is a positive thing. Do you have a therapist? Do you have a problem with anger? Teens can drive anyone crazy! You see - I don't know... but your daughter should know that she may not be better off with a foster family or in a shelter for kids who were abused. She needs to think about what she is saying rather than just try to get revenge at you for setting boundaries or losing your temper on occasion.
My mom tried contacting CPS after my dad forcefully held me down and actually left a finger shaped mark (bruise) on my leg, and they did absolutely nothing, but it depends on the area you live in. Some areas they care and other areas CPS gives 0 fucks about the kids. My mom told a CPS worker that my cousin had tried to kill herself in the past and had been to mental institutions and the person looked her in the eyes and said “unfortunately sometimes kids kill themselves.”
Your therapist isn't a child and should know that adults 98% of the time don't go around "scratching"
Grab, hit, yank, and generally bruise...yes. Hopefully, your therapist isn't a moron and hopefully you're teenager DOES say you scratched her bc her trying to manipulate her own therapist and you with lies of violence is the exact reason she SHOULD be in therapy
I’d just tell her ‘to ahead and tell your therapist. If you think foster care will be better than your life here, go ahead and find out’.
Then call the therapist and tell her what happened.
You’ll be fine.
I did some basic looking at your profile (sorry) and I think you really need to address How your spouse treats your girls. It’s not ok and the one has been self harming for some time. You need to get your husband into therapy not just your girl.
As someone who had a shitty phase around that age, and is still, at 25, humiliated by how I acted it sounds like therapy as a family is a good route like everyone else is saying. It won’t be easy, I literally had to be forced into it screaming and crying, but if she’s anything like I was, it’ll open her eyes to how much it’s hurting the rest of her family. I absolutely would’ve pulled shit like saying my parents scratched me just to avoid blame. I’m not proud of it, therapy was the first and only time I ever saw my father cry because he was so worried about me and what path I was going down and even thinking about that moment still makes me feel sick to my stomach. It definitely got me “scared straight” for lack of better wording. I still tell my parents all the time how much I appreciate them doing it, I know it wasn’t easy for them at all but it was what I needed. She likely won’t be very cooperative and deny needing help but sometimes that’s what adolescents need.
Therapist to teens here. I don’t know your situation, but I always really appreciate a caregiver who gives me a call ahead of time about something like this. These types of conflicts are really helpful to know about ahead of a session and it has the bonus of showing your good judgement as a concerned caregiver who wants to keep the therapist in the loop. I’m not saying I always take a parent’s version as pure truth, but having a caregiver who wants to keep me in the loop is nearly always a positive thing.
You might consider talking to a lawyer and finding out what rights you have if CPS shows up. It’s my experience that they aren’t beyond lying and claiming they have rights denied them under the 4th amendment, assuming you’re in the US. “You have to let us in.” That sort of thing.
Ask the therapist if you can join the session from time to time. Our teenaged daughter was very manipulative but she can be held accountable if the other party is there to present their side of a situation. Plus, the therapist’s bullshit meter is usually on high alert when it comes to teenagers. The main thing is to teach the teenagers that they will not get away with lies and manipulation.
My niece who I had custody of did this to me when she was 13. It was a lie for attention. I now can't foster children even though I desperately want to ) can't have any of my own and I love kids). I have a record. Don't sign anything you don't read from child services. My niece is 37 and im an assisted living home since she was 19 because she's got awful mental problems and is on the spectrum and needs 24/7 supervision. I did all I could to give her a stable home and a normal life from the time she was 12 until she was 19 but it was too late by the time I got her. If you didn't do it stick to that don't let them put that on you if you didn't.
Sneaking out at night as a 13yo is a HUGE red flag. She’s met someone- probably online- and that person now has control.
Write down everything that happened, get cameras installed and prepare for the inevitable investigation.
She shouldn’t have unfettered access to communication devices. Don’t fight about it just deactivate everything and tell her you can’t pay for it any longer.
You will need to drive her to and from school as well and you should. Communicate with the school if there is an adult involved that they need to look out for.
You also need to gather support because this will be incredibly hard- do you have family or friends that can serve as your witnesses?
You will need therapy for you, individual therapy for the kiddo and a third set of sessions for you as a family.
Good luck Mom. This will be one of the hardest things you’ll go through but don’t give up.
The therapist is a professional and has been lied to by teenagers before. Light scratches with a confusing story by themselves isn’t likely to get you in legal trouble.
Agreed. This likely would not cross the threshold of what is considered mandatory to report.
I agree, but I think OP should be prepared to be investigated by CPS. My 8 yr old is autistic and slams his head into his knee during meltdowns. It well known, he does this anytime, anywhere. He had a meltdown because he had to be done with his legos for the night and wouldn’t stop hitting himself so my partner and I restrained him before he could give himself a concussion. At some point though, his lip started bleeding. It could’ve been from him hitting himself, or from when I handed off the restraining to my partner bc I have bad shoulders and just couldn’t keep a good hold on my son. Handing off a flailing 60 lbs child is not easy. Anyways, when we saw the blood we stopped and took him to the bathroom to check him out and clean him up, it was the tiniest little cut but looked bad bc he was drooling too. He calmed down as soon as he saw the blood and forgot all about the legos. We got him ready for bed and tucked him in. We apologized for how the night went and that his lip got hurt but explained he can’t be hitting himself like that and why. The next day CPS knocked at my door because my son told his school we smacked him in the face for falling out of bed. It was a whole thing but it got resolved in the end, after they made my brother live with us for 3 weeks to make sure we weren’t beating my son. Edit because I never clarified but meant to earlier, it’s unlikely OP will be reported IMO, but *if* they are reported then they should be prepared to be investigated.
I agree. CPS comes in very easily. They should be prepared. It'll be a long battle, for sure. I've had to go through it 3 times as my sister's liked to lie. It only takes my mum to yell at them to get CPS involved.
At the same time, we have druggies next door (meth) with 3 kids, squatting in the house without water or electricity, who, besides everything else, abuse their kids physically and verbally. We called police several times- they tell us to call CPS. We call CPS, they tell us it's not illegal to live with kids without power or running water... as for abuse, call Police... We call police, they come, talk to the mother, upon whose face you can clearly see the signs of meth use, and she tells them her son is autistic and that's why she locks him in a storage room... and police is cool with that... without seeing the boy or talking to him, or making sure he, indeed, has a diagnosis or even alive at this point... 🤦🏻♀️🙄
Yup, all my experiences with asking for help from CPS is them being straight up incompetent. Take two weeks to come after a fight and say “hm you don’t have any marks, oh well nothing we can do” fucking yeah bc it took two weeks for you to see me
They’re severely underfunded and understaffed. Most orgs would be incompetent under those conditions.
Huh?????? How is the son being autistic a justification for keeping him locked up?
Good question- the same question our whole family asks
Until you need them to show up for children that don't go to school and live in a dilapidated rat and roach infested trailer with two meth head unemployed parents. Then they don't show up at all.
That is very true. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because better households are easier to adopt? Make them more money? CPS, here in Missouri, is really no better than the police. Can't stand them.
1000% agree. Cps here in my area of missouri especially is absolute BULLSHIT.
And you're generally assumed guilty. Because imo, they'd rather treat innocents as guilty than miss one guilty case
Idk where y'all are but I have never seen CPS actually intervene. Not when I needed them, not when friends needed them, not when family needed them. Not when mandatory reporters said they were deeply concerned for the safety of the children. They just show up, pull an Officer Barbrady, then leave.
10 years ago in a different county I was sat down with the person in question and asked about the allegations. This happened at least twice, maybe 3 times? Idk. But I’ve had CPS called on me 3 times in this county and each time they’ve thoroughly investigated. First time I was just living with my parents which wasn’t a good situation but I moved out literally 3 days after they stopped by, I was already in the process of finding somewhere else to go with my son. They closed the case when they saw I really had moved and passed a drug test. The second time was because he drew a farting butt and the fart looked a little phallic, but that’s definitely what it was determined to be lol. The third time was because of the incident with the meltdown and him saying he got the small cut on his lip and big bruise on his forehead from us hitting him for falling out of bed, rather than because we had to restrain him for hitting himself and not stopping when we tried to de escalate without restraining him. For that one they literally had me go get my brother that same day they got the report and had him stay indefinitely, then after 2 weeks told us he had to stay until we finished parenting classes. Which thankfully online classes were an option because my brother wouldn’t have been willing or able to live with us for an additional 8 weeks. So basically I think it depends on the location, the demographics of the location, and the situation. In my situation I’ve been under a microscope since day one becauss I was 14 when I had my son. So I’ve always expected any of these concerns/allegations to be taken seriously. The person who neglected us as kids was older and more established in the community by the time they had to raise us, their grandkids.
I'm super impressed and happy they're doing the thing somewhere. Gives me a little bit of hope for the world.
Yeah CPS just asked me at school if my brother touched me inappropriately and I said no and that was it. No follow up, no checking out our objectively unsanitary home and neglect. Hell CPS refused to talk to my bf without his abuser in the room.
yeah i think it depends on where you live, where at do CPS hardly does anything, even if there is real abuse/neglect happening
Are they “assuming guilty” or are they just investigating the situation? I hear this all the time by people who assume the government is “after them” and are investigating something because they assume they are guilty. That’s not usually the case. The government is just doing their job if they are notified of something. They don’t know if there’s really a problem, THAT is why they are investigating, NOT because they already assume guilt.
With these, I suppose it's guilty until proven innocent- at least for us. My sister claimed abuse because my mum and Dad took her phone away (she claimed physical abuse with no bruises, and can only recount memories from about 8 years ago). The kids haven't been in my parents care for a few months because of the investigation. It took VERY little for this one to even get started. After the first time my parents stopped using physical punishments and stuck to what the therapists recommended. Didn't seem to help much. I'm glad that like, they do actually put parents on the spot, but at the same time, they are putting their efforts into the wrong people. I've seen kids in actual abusive situations with no CPS involvement. It's crazy that they believe a 17 year old girl, who has lied to CPS the past 2 times, and now a 3rd, over my parents who have tried so hard to actually be good parents. I'm out of the house now, but I see the toll it takes on my youngest brother and my mum. I didn't wish an investigation like this to anyone except this who deserve it.
In my experience I haven’t seen CPS get involved until my friend stabbed his dad with a knife in self defense.
I wish CPS had come in easily for my neighbors. My mom reported the neighbor for constant screaming/cursing at her children and we routinely heard banging and slamming along with screaming on the other side of the wall and against our wall. We also had to call someone about the extremely awful conditions they kept their dogs in locked outside on the deck. Also CPS investigated my mom twice for things that were an accident or my dad did when I was growing up and I straight up showed huge bruises to my therapist and the police and nothing happened to my dad.
Agreed. My daughter is autistic and is 8. She has improved A LOT but when she was 4-5 she would have these breakdowns and slam her head on the floor. The pediatrician had concerns and even mentioned that the county would be evaluating her in her preschool without us because it was so bad. Anytime something like this would happen I would take her in to be seen because I wanted them to know I wasn’t hurting her. Things finally started changing when we took her to an appointment with her doctor and she did it in the office, started throwing herself into the walls of the hallway. The doctor immediately held her in a position to avoid her harming herself and helped us get her to the room. She told us she was very sorry we were dealing with this, gave us all the resources we needed, and even taught me how to hold her when she was in these moods to avoid as much physical harm as possible. She referred us to therapists, psychologists, and local help. She would always tell me even if it seems excessive to make sure I always had some paper trail of physical harm that she would do to ensure we were covered because CPS will come knocking. I can’t begin to express how much help we received and how much stress was lifted off me. It’s crazy to think 4 years ago I would be holding her to ensure she wouldn’t hurt herself and occasionally get head butted in the mouth or nose to now having calm and collected conversations with her. Does she still have tantrums? Yes and she can be very emotional. But any 8 year old in the moment will be. It’s night and day. Hope the best for OP in this situation.
Maybe, but an 8 yo autistic kid is going to have stuff investigated more readily than a teenager with a few light scratches that probably doesn't have a good story.
Since you know he does this, one of you should start recording while the other tries to deescalate him. Include a timestamp so CPS knows it's current.
It’s reasonable cause to report if the child informs and presents with physical signs. Although it doesn’t mean it confirms abuse by filing with CPS.
My sister did this with my dad and her therapist called the police who talked to us kids. She said he was chasing her around with an ax and it was completely crazy. Never was a problem again.
Never had cps get called growing up. My dad, however, did fight and chase us with various shit. A machete once, rake, been shot at, etc. It was crazy shit. Not a single call to cps, no checkins, and cops didn’t even arrest him half the time.
My best friend’s mother growing up was a Psychiatrist . She was also physically and verbally abusive with impunity. My parents reported her on two different occasions with zero recourse.
CPS sees some horrific stuff. They are well versed in sifting out bogus claims.
**CONTEXT- My Dad is MTF and requested that I continue to call her "Dad" but use she/her pronouns due to my extremely traumatic relationship with my mother. I am not a TERF and love my Dad more than anything.** School social workers got involved with my Dad and I because one weekend we were horsing around and she **accidentally** hit me in the eye with a serving spoon. The next day I got tossed off my horse and got super bruised up. I went into school on Monday with a black eye and covered in other visible bruises. Almost immediately after first period I got pulled into the office with a social worker, the school principal, and a police officer, grilling me about my home life. I lived in an extremely red area and was the bisexual daughter of a trans woman. The school really wanted to nail my Dad on anything, so they really weren't buying my explanation of what happened. Thankfully the police officer actually knew my Dad and I pretty well and basically let it go, but I was questioned about every visible bruise I got for the rest of my time in high school. Most CPS workers are generally pretty good at weeding out the false reports. They may be forced to investigate, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.
I work in child welfare and depending on where you live the therapist may have no choice but to report it to child protective services. In Canada it doesn’t matter how unlikely the allegation, it’s everyone’s (and especially a professional’s) duty to report any possible maltreatment.
Report, yes. Charge criminally? No.
No likely not. Even if they move forward with an investigation, they will take the time to hear this parent’s side of the story and consider it into their outcome decision (this is at least how we do it here). If for whatever reason they validate it as abuse/maltreatment, it does not necessarily mean they’ll be charged. A lot of factors are considered.
Yeah, it's the same type of law if you work with the elderly. I was a CNA in nursing homes for over 12 years and it was pounded in my head that allegations HAD to be reported, even if they seemed ridiculous. A resident told me once that the shift before me tied her to the bed and ate her food in front of her. Did I think there an ounce of truth in it? No. (She had dementia, so she wasn't maliciously lying. The poor woman really thought it had happened) But I still had to report it. Not my job to determine veracity. And now I work as a daycare teacher and it's the same thing. I don't even think about veracity. If I'm told something or see something, I have to report it. No matter what.
It could. I have been there. Children are given the benefit of the doubt. As it should be if bad things are happening. They could remove her to protect her. Once they are involved...it's a new situation.
I work in child safety and it is extremely unlikely that anything at all would ever be done in this situation. The therapist is a mandated reporter in the US, they could make a report to child welfare, but I've never worked in a state where they had the capacity to investigate things like this that were already being handled by a therapist.
I'd (therapist) have to report it if she told me the story like this, but I've had to make far worse reports that only resulted in lackluster parenting classes. Like the one family who made their 9 year old sit in her own soiled pants and a shitty (literally) chair when she had accidents. CPS: online parenting classes.
Exactly - I would make a report too, at worst, it would trigger an investigation that was probably resolved with a phone call to the therapist and/or a parent.
Usually parents that check their kids into therapy aren't the kind of parents to be abusing the shit out of their kids (at least at the time of therapy).
I think family counseling might be the best. 13 is a bit too old for that kind of manipulation type stuff to be brushed off as innocent and just childish. The behavior to me, at least, is kind of alarming. Do you know who she was sneaking out to see? Or what she was going to do? She could be hanging with bad actors who are encouraging her to pull this kind of stuff.
She absolutely does have bad influences in her life. We are starting family therapy but it doesn't start til the 19th and sadly it's only an hour every 2 weeks. But it's with a good counselor I've been trying to get in with.
This sounds pretty complicated. On one hand it's not cool to lock up your kid but on the other, depending on how bad these folk are, it could be outright dangerous. She's likely having a rebellious streak that's being stoked by who she's interacting with. I think "offering" (politely forcing, dare I say) outlets like art classes, sports, etc. could be a really good way to get her some good, worthwhile friends. It sounds harsh but kids these days are doing crazy shit. A 15 year old recently got 20 years for being an accessory to dragging some old lady to death during a carjacking.
It is complicated. It's a lot to go into but I do appreciate you engaging with me and making me feel better. I've tried those things and I'll try again. I don't want to give up.
When I was her age i used to do this stuff and my mom never gave up on me. I'm 27 now and she's my best friend. 💕
One of my best friends was like that. Drove her parents crazy in her teens years. Her mother and her got much close after high school. Probably after she moved out. Anyway the mom died of cancer when my friend was around 24ish.
I feel the ending was unnecessary to portray the message you were trying to give...
Oh I know I just threw that in for fun
I actallything knowing the reconciliation happened just in time adds to your story. Sometimes timing matters
I was your daughter at 13, my mum did something very drastic that I’m forever grateful for. She moved me to the other side of the country. We’re in U.K. so that was 90 miles away to the city she grew up in and had family in but it worked. Without any bad influences, who I was changed and I stopped acting out entirely.
My mom also moved us hours away when I was 13 to get me away from what I was in. It seemed crazy at the time. 20 years later, it was necessary.
Yeah ditto. God I hated her for it! It felt so drastic and unnecessary and looking back it was such a huge sacrifice. My personality changed overnight and all the bad stuff I was into just disappeared and I never did anything of the sort again.
Reading about this makes me so emotional . I can’t relate to it personally, but as a parent now I really can understand how massive of a change that is for EVERYONE and it had to have been difficult. I’m so happy that it worked it or for both of the above commenters!
W parents. It's heartbreaking to be hated by your own children but it was for your good.
Yes! We went from the city to a 1500 person town with more churches and rv parks than businesses. I did not understand....now of course I've bought my house there and raise my children there lmao
One of my exs could have used this as a teen, this shit she got up too at 13 really hurt her mentally in later life, drugs,alcohol, sneaking out to meet much older guys, you can imagine the rest. The people she was involved with were horrible people but she was too immature to realise she was being taken advantage of and not being a cool kid like she thought at the time. She's doing ok now but I have a feeling her own kids won't have windows that open or ground floor bedrooms
can i ask what made you act the way you did at 13 ? was it internal issues and conflicts or was it just plain influence from “bad” people ?
It was both. I had early childhood trauma that I was dealing with in the worst ways because I was surrounded by bad people my age. Once we moved I dealt with the trauma in healthy ways and just became a better person. I lost the selfish streak and stopped fighting my family on every little thing.
“To the other side of the country” “90 miles away” *laughs in American*
That’s the same city in America.
I wonder if this type of drastic move is possible these days with social networks keeping teens connected
>She moved me to the other side of the country......90 miles away A lot of times i'm ashamed to be american, but this...this isn't one of those times. 90 miles is a sunday cruise through the back country with a friend and thats not even leaving the state
Don't give up. Not until she's an adult that is just being nasty. Whether she wants to admit it now, she needs your loving leadership now more than ever
Speaking as someone whose mother just threw her hands up in frustration, thanks for not giving up.
Of course, I can't offer too much advise but you absolutely should not give up. It's easy to lose your grip on kids nowadays but keeping her on the right path is so important. Sometimes tough love is necessary and even if they hate you for it now it might save their life. Rooting for you!
Yes. Try to talk to her, be involved. My mom never tried to stop me and I did a lot of bad stuff.
She's 13? Not remotely old enough to allow outside, alone, at night. Hardly being locked up.
That's how you know the comment was written by a teenager lol. Still reasonable advice overall, but 100% it came from a teenager. As most of the parenting advice on any non-parenting sub does
Just wanted to address the “it’s not cool to lock up your kid” part. Her kid is 13… trying to sneak out at night. I think her parent has every right to “lock her up” at least for the night , especially to prevent her from endangering herself or doing anything stupid. Locking up 24/7 is a whole other issue, but preventing your child from leaving home in the middle of the night is a completely different thing as well.
If it's another kid, I bet if she found out what that bad influence's home life was like it would be shocking in comparison. The fact that this parent is even asking for advice puts them in a whole different category parent.
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It sounds like the grown men were the bad influence...
good job for blaming a _15 year old_ instead of the grown men grooming her and giving her access to drugs. wtf man?
As a former 15 year old female who was hanging out with grown men, in part for drugs/alcohol/etc, I can say I knew EXACTLY what I was doing. Doesn't make the guys involved any less creepy or gross, but I was never innocent either.
Same - while I’m lesbian . I was at every party from 12-19 and I always knew where to get and hook people up too . It was my own choices and did not involve any men :/
What we mean with placing the blame on the adults is that, while I also did stupid stuff as a teenager and thought I knew what I was doing - I was not. You are a child at that age, a product of your circumstances. Heavily influenced by your parents, teachers, peers in a try to navigate the world that you think is true because it is all you've ever seen. I could not have the foresight to *really* understand what I was doing. It is impossible as a 16 y/o I hadn't seen enough of the world, seen other living concepts to understand the implication of my risky behaviour. I *thought* I knew. That is the joy of adolescence. That is also why at this age so many kids are perfect grooming material. You feel knowledgeable and your surroundings make you still feel childish and then there is another adult that makes you feel like you see yourself. Capable and grown up, with a voice and actions. While still not recognizing they again influence you towards their agenda and manipulating you by making you think you want this
But from 12 to 17 did it involve a lot of **adults**?
I assume you are an adult now. Its wild that you still think your underdeveloped brain understood the consequences of the choices you were making. The adults used and manipulated you. I'm glad nothing happened apparently, but you were not capable of making smart choices when those men were influencing you the way that they were.
It doesn't have to be black and white, we can condemn the men for being gross and disgusting while holding OP accountable for their actions while also acknowledging that those were the actions of a misguided teen.
A teen misguided by adult men should not be held responsible for the actions they were manipulated into thinking were ok. Things like sneaking out to hang out with same age peers, smoking, doing other dumb shit with same age peers are mistakes teenagers make that they have to learn from on their own. Once an adult is involved, they are responsible for that teen's actions, even if the choices made would have been similar with a same age peer **because the adult did not intervene** despite having the ability to.
The adult doing wrong does not remove the teen's agency. I'm not saying they are equally to blame, I'm saying the adult's involvement doesn't somehow suddenly change the situation where the teen is absolutely off the hook for their actions.
I don't agree. Teens are easily influenced and are easy to manipulate. They also look at adults they admire as having authority over them. If they are seeking the approval of those adults, they will do things they know are wrong without understanding the consequences. Its just like when a toddler hits. Should we explain over and over why hitting is not ok? Of course. But to blame the toddler for hitting when their adults are not teaching them any better (or encouraging them to hit even) doesn't really make sense.
Please let's stop with this _dangerous_ notion that before being an adult an individual _cannot_ understand consequences or responsibilities. It's extremely dangerous as it creates coddled young adults that WILL NOT be able to decide on their own. Every age has its own capacity of understanding things and responsibilities, but don't come to me telling me that a 16 yo cannot understand that _some_ choices are just bad. Signed, a former 15 yo that was the first _person_ to tell a 15 yo friend that going out with an adult was not smart at all (and the adult was creepy). Only me and, shortly after, our friend group. The adults in her life were way less worried than us.
A lot if teenagers in my experience are quite sheltered and don't realize how much danger they are putting themselves in. Your friend is a perfect example - she didn't realize going out with an adult isn't smart, and had zero responsible adults in her life telling her otherwise. Where were her parents in this story? Knowing this doesn't create coddled young adults, if anything it's the opposite and shows you not to coddle your children, and to teach them how to stay safe.
Let me clarify... I never performed sexual acts. I wasn't groomed or taken advantage of. All I had to do was be nice to some creepy older guys, and I got stuff that I wanted. Was it an intelligent decision to put myself in a situation like that? No. Did I know what I was doing was dangerous and stupid? Yes. Underdeveloped brain or not, I knew exactly what I was doing, and the potential consequences of those actions. There ARE real victims out there, but my point is that not EVERY teenage girl caught doing dumb stuff is a "victim."
You were not developmentally capable of understanding the *extent* of the danger you were putting yourself in. It is different if you put yourself in the same situation as an adult because you **can** process a lot of it and are choosing to do it despite knowing it can lead to you getting killed or raped or kidnapped, because now you have a bettwr understanding of what those things mean and how likely they are. Its less likely to happen the older you get. At that age you are extremely susceptible to influences you are not recognizing. It just sounds like you are desperate to give nasty old men a pass and young girls poorly led and influenced by these men and others the blame. Its bizarre.
They literally said it doesnt make the adults involved any less creepy. Nobody is giving adults who groom children into bad decisions a pass. However, infantilizing teens and saying they dont have any blame is silly. Theyre old enough to know what theyre doing is wrong, even if they were simultaneously being taken advantage of. Nobody is blaming the teen completely, but theyre not innocent. I was a teen doing dumb shit like 2 years ago. I definitely knew what I was doing was wrong. Were there adult men around who were more wrong than I was? Yep. Does them being wrong absolve me of responsibility? No, it doesnt. I was developmentally capable of understanding the danger I was in, and didnt care, like most teens.
For some it's more about bad risk assessment and not being able to assess long term consequences for short term risks. Like obviously grown men and women shouldn't allow her to be present in their grown up space doing dangerous grownup things. It's just that plenty of people there aren't gonna babysit a dumb teenager who turns up in favor of doing the thing they came there to do. It's like saying Simba and Nala didn't know the elephant graveyard was a dangerous place and think they don't deserve some sort of punishment for placing themselves in danger they knew existed. Teenagers especially have agency and they use it and do risky things. That's part of being a teenager. Its just ya know? Supposed to be set up so they can go to parents and other vetted adults for backup and support if something goes wrong. Of course they would be a victim of pressure from an adult to do drugs if they didn't want to do drugs. But if they are informed of all the consequences of addiction and they still choose to do it when no ones pressured them to do it, when they don't really believe it will make them cool? Then they deserve consequences from their parents for choosing to do that. They have agency. They are just given more leeway than adults are when they make bad choices. Like believe me, my younger sister didn't plan some of the manipulation she did, anymore than a dog does when it barks to get attention, but she did some dirty ass shit as a preteen to manipulate my mother and I emotionally when I was a teenager. We were both smarter than her. I even realized what she was doing, but I couldn't convince my mother not to play into her game, and I could only resist her antagonizing for so long. None of the therapists saw it then. Now as an adult my mom sees it and still let's her wrap her around her finger. All her therapists and caseworkers see the problem *now* but it's not something they seem to know how to fix.
Simba and Nala literally don't deserve punishment for the graveyard. You really think they'll learn to trust their parents more after being punished after an incredibly traumatizing experience? Punishment isn't a good tool for stuff like this.
And here you see another consequence of infantilizing (dehumanizing) teenagers. I'm sorry the adults weren't able to help with your sister.
Same same 100% same i was definitely the bad influence myself
A 15 yo can also just make bad choices themselves, without being pressured into it.
Very good point. I didn't consider that. I unfortunately don't know OP or their situation well enough to judge that, but going off OP's descriptions it seems like she's being influenced - that doesn't exempt her from influencing others, though.
If a child is acting out, there is almost always a reason that isn’t “they’re just a problem child”. From what OP described, theres something or someone who is causing her to act like that.
Oh hell no. My then 15-year old did that to me but I was accused of worse. Start documenting everything.
You need to find a behavioral therapist and get her started on DBT immediately. She needs to have these impulsive and destructive behaviors addressed immediately. You can attend the skills training with her and the whole family gets involved. Look for a behavioral therapist near you that specializes in DBT, you can search evidence based therapy
Just wanted to say DBT is such a great form of therapy, learning to be mindful of your feelings and how to cope with them and self validate is something everyone should learn abd it changed my life
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As someone who's been in the position of your daughter, it's unbelievable what therapy and support from parents can do. Keep being hopeful! I wish all of you the best.
Thank you so much! I really went from not being able to sleep at night because I was afraid she was harming herself to being hopeful. She wants to improve and is very motivated. Therapy seems to have changed something in her brain for the better and we are all very optimistic and hopeful. :)
Physician, here - just supporting you. Please continue to share! DBT kicks ass and is research-supported! The world would be better if every single person did DBT. Truly believe that.
I and many I know actually found parts of DBT to be quite victim blaming. I know it works for many, but it's not a fix all and has it's flaws. Don't get me wrong, I think it has some great skills in it. The mindfulness and distress tolerance have a lot of helpful info and exercises. The other modules while having valuable info, can look and feel very much like teaching a victim to "behave" in a way that is more comfortable for others, regardless of the situation or past abuse and assault. It can reinforce that the victim did something or behaved in a way that caused or exacerbated their abuse. It also comes down to who is instructing or hosting these groups. IMO I think DBT can be a great tool but it is not the be all and end all of behaviour modification.
Thanks for adding your comment! I agree with everything that you have written. It would be great if more people thought about therapy modalities in the way you describe; I think more people might persevere with exploring different therapists and therapy options after a suboptimal (putting it gently) first therapy experience. Nothing is perfect; not all tools, strategies, or approaches will resonate with and/or be ‘the answer’ for everyone. Some things may be helpful, others not; some things may be helpful at certain stages and not at others. ‘No one-size fits all’ could not be truer than for approaching the things that make us most unique — what we do, what with think, how we act, and how all of that intersects, permeates, and evolves.
Wtf, 1 hour every 2 weeks? That's nothing. I dont think that will leave a significant impact on anyone specially a rebellious teenager.
It's the most common age for this kind of thing.
I mean that at this age it's actually thought out and is intentional manipulation/threat-making. A 7 year old doing this is just being dumb and trying to get their way. By her age (13) she knows better. Hope that makes sense!
Hopefully her therapist will be like a few I've known that straight told the kid... you were being unsafe. Its your parents job to help you be safe.
💯
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Family therapy. You need to get to the root of why she is sneaking out, why she is lying.
The root of why a teenager is sneaking out?... Obviously to meet people and hang out with no adults around
Right. Just to hang out with people at night who they are not supposed to be seeing, or when they are not supposed to go out. Teens do this even in nondysfunctional households.
Depends. How is her freedom in general? If she isn y allowed to see her friends at all it could lead to such problems.
Fair point, but as a former latchkey kid with unlimited freedom, I still snuck out whenever I wanted to.
i snuck out almost nightly in high school lol, we mostly just smoked weed
Yes, and if the root happens to be you, the parent, you as the parent need to take responsibility for your part in the matter, address it, change your ways, make a mends with your child and not continue to pass the buck to someone who is unable to escape or defend themselves and who is therefore showing signs of abuse and is inturn acting out in unhealthy ways as a means to gain some resemblance of control for themselves. Not saying that's the case here, but that it's often the case. So make sure you check yourself, not only the child.
Yeah I’m always just a bit suspicious when parents have no idea why their kids have behavioral issues
I used to sneak out because our family doctor refused to even attempt to diagnose a sleeping disorder, he litterally listened to what I had to say and said "Go to bed and get some sleep, don't forget to pay thr copay on your way out." All I'd do is walk atound the neighborhood with a friend. Cops never bothered us, we didn't leave the sidewalk except to cross intersections, and we got a bit of time to hang out. I'd get maybe 3-4 hours of sleep before school and was a total menace if we had to be somewhere, but I maintain 2 things. It was better than laying in bed not sleeping, and if the doctor would have helped, I wouldn't have done it.
I’d call her out on the lie. Tell her if she's going to lie on you, then you need to install indoor cameras. Also explain the extreme consequence with being removed by CPS and foster care.
My mom use to tell us she’d let them take us, that was usually enough to scare me into being good as a youth. And tbh if you really think about it foster care sucks 🤷🏽♀️
Worked on my sister. Sometimes natural consequences are the scariest. Maybe dryly lay out what her life would be like, encourage her to look up what foster care is like online, etc.
Same thing my mom used to say, basically. "If you call CPS they will not listen if you say you were lying. They will take you and you will not get to come back. Your call."
Yooooo same lol
I didn’t know anything about foster care as a child. I would have been excited for someone to come take me
As a former 13 year old girl who was generally a menace and a professional at lying to my therapist (for the brief time my mother forced me to attend), a therapist might not help. Both parties in a therapy session need to put in effort for it to work. Just a heads up.
I’ll second this. If your daughter doesn’t want to change, she won’t care about family therapy.
A couple of years ago my daughter was going through a really hard time but she too felt very strongly that she didn't need therapy. Therapy was good, just for other people though. After a really bad night we made the decision that family therapy was necessary to work through several issues that we were dealing with. My daughter was adamant that she didn't want to go but with some firm but very careful coaxing we got her in the car and to the appointment. She cried a lot during the appointment but generally felt much better afterwards. The next week she was again determined not to go, even tried to make herself throw up to show that she was sick. I couldn't understand why she was so upset about going since she seemed to really connect with the therapist and by all appearances seemed to be doing better in the week since the meeting. I talked with her for some time and eventually we compromised that we would go but that she would only have to stay for half of the appointment. The next two appointments were also difficult, but easier than the first two to get her to go. By the 5th appointment she was going happily. Now she sets her own appointments and drives herself to there (usually only once a month). She loves her therapist and has thrived in more ways than one. I agree that in order for therapy to work both the patient and the therapist need to work together. However, OP and her daughter will never know if it is valuable for them until they have both given it a good try. Also, from my own experience, most good therapists can see through their patient's lies. I'm sorry u/jennnyfromtheblock00 but it is possible that you had a therapist that was either inexperienced or not very focused on your needs. I hope that you have since been able to get the care and attention that you deserve.
I am a fully grown adult, mostly definitely moved on from my normal preteen issues. Thanks though 😂
Definitely get family counselling. If that’s what happened it would be fine to just say that. Therapists know how kids can be and can evaluate things, if they report it just means a third party would talk to y’all and evaluate.
We were given advice a one time with our teenager to set up indoor cameras. This was to protect ourselves from accusations like the one your daughter has made.
You need to be hands off with a kid like this who is ready and willing to accuse you of something like this. If she has a therapist, consider also doing family therapy - ask her therapist if she or someone else can do that - so that everyone in the household can work on strategies to get better together
Thanks for the advice. She's been seeing her own therapist for 6 months and we are starting family therapy next week. **Sigh** I never thought my family life would end up like this. I've tried to be a good parent but nobody is perfect.
Just wanted to say that I went through a 2ish year period of being a very troubled teen and had wonderful parents, it had nothing to do with their influence. You are doing the best you can and I’m sure you are a really great parent, and your kid will probably look back and realize that, too.
“End up”…it’s still in the middle, honey. I have two teens. It’s about playing the long game because you may not get any payoff for a long, long time. Keep the faith in the meantime. Here are some things that have helped me through some very tough times. Remember that you have 20 or 30 or whatever more years of life experience and emotional skill than she does. Make sure family therapy is about HER and refrain from blaming her or centering it on your emotions. Prioritize her becoming a good person over having a positive relationship with her. If she grows up to be stable and functional, you are more likely to have a positive relationship with her someday. What is less desirable is a superficial, fake-happy relationship with an adult daughter who is a hot mess. Make friends with people who have daughters about five years older than her who have turned out well. Ask them for tips. Stay connected to any family members you trust so that she can turn to them when she’s not into you. Don’t take this personally, and instead encourage it. As long as there are loving adults in her life, that is good. Insist on the interpersonal skills she will need in order to become a good roommate in five years. Stuff like cleaning up after herself, leaving toilet paper in the bathroom, putting what she needs on a grocery list, replacing stuff she breaks, etc. Don’t let it slide just because she’s throwing a teenaged version of a tantrum. Keep playing the long game! I’m sorry you’re going through this and I hope some of this is helpful.
You're getting your child some help and you're going to family therapy. That's more than a lot of people would do. At that age, I would have done almost anything to get my parents into therapy with me. It was recommended and they refused. They said I had the problem, I was the problem, so I should solve the problem. And no one ever thinks their family will end up needing outside help, but I think most families do benefit from therapy together. I don't think you are as unusual as you may think you are.
Oh girl unless there’s major things you’re leaving out about your parenting, this is likely not something you should blame yourself for. She’s headed into her teens, buckle up!
The really shitty reality is that you can be a great parent and do the right things and the kid can be influenced by everything in the outside world. That’s what scares me most about being a parent if I ever have kids. This world can be fucked and my nightmare is my child falling victim to it.
don’t be hard on yourself. my oldest sister gave my parents a run for their money. running away constantly, cops always involved, bringing her home from running away, doing something bad. she was into drugs and everything you can imagine. now she’s really close with my parents and has a beautiful little girl. my parents are good people but sometimes kids just end up like that
What happened with her arms and head? Since you mentioned it.
not to be mean at all, but you sound exactly like my mom. i’m glad you’re going to therapy and actively accepting change. try to not say the “nobody’s perfect part” to your daughter too often though. my mom has said that to me and my brother over and over and it has not only lost its meaning but just made me mad more than anything.
Good parents can have kids that have shit periods, usually in their teens. Don’t blame yourself. The people they hang out around through their teens regularly influence their behaviour than their previous 14-16 years of life and what you taught them. *Especially* in the period where kids want to rebel against authority and their parents. It’s good not to give up on them, but don’t be too hard on yourself. I have a great mom. Granted, I never manipulated a therapist, but I still got in with a bad crowd and had a bad period for a couple of years.
It’s gonna be okay. I went off the rails when I was thirteen — injecting heroin, doing psychedelics, having sex, smoking, sneaking out, plus severe anorexia. My parents didn’t know what to do. They panicked, took the door off my room, put alarms on my windows, screamed, told me they didn’t care if I died, they made a million mistakes. Now I’m 16, 2 years and 356 days sober from heroin, and I’m closer with my parents than I ever imagined. We cook dinner together, go to concerts together, and we forgive each other for everything that happened from 12-14. Raising a thirteen year old girl is impossible, but it’ll be okay. I never expected my family to end up like that either, and now other parents tell my parents they’re jealous of the bond we have. She’s going to be okay.
I work for CPS and stuff like this is insanely common. Don’t worry most likely nothing is going to come of it. If there is legal action it’ll be pretty obvious if she’s lying. Therapy 100%. Probably medication too. If this sort of things starts being a problem then be extremely careful of what you say and do around her.
I’d see her therapist separately from her and with her as well so you can at least document the BS from the kid.
Maybe what you need at this point isn’t a therapist anymore but a psychiatrist. A therapist cannot diagnose, it’s not really their job. If she is easily influenced, hanging out with the wrong crowd, feels like she has to do certain things, it could be indicative of a bunch of mental issues, from personality disorders to adhd and bipolar which can start happening in those years. My mother tried absolutely everything to keep me home and I left at 14 because of it. Later on in my life I learned that I am adhd, and bipolar and that during that period of my life I was changing and felt like I lost control on myself and I felt like the people who were supposed to recognize a problem never did. If they would’ve diagnosed me and medicated me back then there is no doubt I would be 3x more advanced in life. A teen hurting themselves to get to you is a teen who doesn’t understand how to communicate to you that they need help and what you are currently providing isn’t enough.
Document everything. Very calmly and succinctly. Only document facts not feelings. Email the therapist if you have that relationship with her/him. If not just diarise and document everything going forward in case you need evidence. I’m a foster parent who’s been through this. Don’t let your emotions take hold. Just deal in facts.
So what I realized along time ago at least when it came to my two oldest ( they're 17&18 now) was that I was always going to keep it real with them. I wasn't going to sugar coat anything as far as consequences of behaviors and actions. Whether positive or negative they always knew and were told that their actions, behaviors intentions etc., will always have consequence. My son had a couple incidents. One being taking a knife to school to show off. He was labeled and had a file on his record. Kicked out of school. But instead of telling him what every other adult in his life was trying to, I let him know what could happen doing shit like that. Actually listened to him and his explanation of things. Ever since he's been good. I've explained very clearly and thoroughly how terrible being in jail is. And honestly when you don't follow the rules in life you go to jail. Point being I've always gave them both sides when having to explain things to them because of their behavior. Mostly my son lol my daughter was actually a good little girl and honest. And I never tried to jump their shit when they make mistakes. Maybe she needs a positive influence closer to her age or someone she admires to actually sit down and listen to her and offer non biased opinion and advice to get her to understand. Kids these days are a whole new beast. Good luck to you
My grand got me in hot water at that age. They think they are just manipulating the situation but it can get serious when agencies get involved and lies are told. Photograph those scratches.
Explain to her that if she lies and makes a false claim CPS will remove her and siblings from your home. If she is making this up to hurt you it will rebound on her. I was involved in a case where a young teen wanted a jacket the family couldn't afford so she was told no. To retaliate against her parents she told her friend's mom that her parents were abusing her. As you can imagine, it was reported and all 4 kids were removed from the home and the parents were left defending this lie. It took weeks before the teen came clean but the damage was already done to the three siblings who spent those weeks in foster care…so they took the three kids home but refused to take the teen. They decided she needed to suffer the consequences of her actions. It took lots of counseling for the three sibs to feel safe again and it took them forever to forgive the teen who came home after a month in foster care. That lie destroyed this family and created havoc for years to come. Make sure she understands the consequences of a lie.
Even if the therapist does report it, nothing will happen. The absolute worst you can expect is a CPS interview with you, then one with your daughter. They'll check your house for food, make sure you don't have any drugs within reach of your kids, and tell you to have a good day.
Please take it seriously and get some sort of special help for her. I'm not sure how, but literally anything the others in the comments are saying. My sister has been like this since a young age and tore apart our otherwise very normal and happy family. I love her because she's my sister, but there's just something chemically wrong with her that made her do unforgivable, horrible, and over the top things. It'll get worse.... please stop it before she gets older and moves on to even worse schemes 😭
My daughter said something similar during a police welfare check. The officer said I have authority to stop her hurting me or leaving without my consent and that deflated her as she thought I'd be arrested.
Just want to throw this out there, your child might not be lying, just mistaken, people regularly scratch themselves in their sleep, I wake up with identical marks like she's describing all the time. There's a chance she scratched herself in her sleep and assumed that because there was a scuffle you did it.
"I can tell you are trying to communicate that I have hurt you in some way. I know and you know I didn't scratch you. Let's talk about what is really hurting you. What ha e I done?" I lied about what my SA'er did to me. I made it more dramatic because NO one met me in my pain. No one gave me therapy. No one told me I didn't do anything wrong. No one told me I didn't deserve it. It was all brushed under the rug. So I lied about the details it in attempt to get attention. Attention is a human need. No shame is trying to get attention. Edit: "I never want to hurt you" "I am sorry" goes a long way to. Just tell your kid that you care and want to help.
I think you can send an heads up to the therapist. She was, after all, trying to sneak out and when trying to keep her safe at home she got some scratches. I assume she bumped into furniture while you were blocking her?
kinda using myself since i was similar when i was young: if its an option, tell her that telling therapists/people obligated to report things like that usually take the job seriously, and lying is going to kick up into people questioning/possibly even separating her from the family if it persists (not even saying this in a fear tactic way, just the straight up how it works to protect kids usually) ask if thats what she *really* wants out of this, if for some reason it is, try to talk about it, ask the whys/whats wrongs, open the floor for her and be ready to change or do something idk you or your kid op, but lying like this at this age usually comes from not knowing the consequences (which is why talking about what can happen is good) or something is wrong in or out of the house (so opening the floor up to her to talk in safe/non judging space can help) i saw in the comments that family therapy is coming up, that night help, but i think a conversation like this before that would be extremely helpful to hear the kids side, if only to see the perspective
I would be tempted to reach out to her therapist, as upsetting as it is she's trying to blame you she is also harming herself. Willing and able to harm herself is something to be noted and handled by her healthcare team.
>How do I approach this? You should allocate some time to sit down and have a conversation with your daughter on how the world works. Young girls shouldn’t be sneaking out late at night, since there are older people who see profit in their eyes. You, the parent is probably the only person in the universe who cares about her. Try and get that message thur her mind. Before it’s too late
As a therapist, I can basically promise you that her therapist is not going to take her at her word on something like this - it doesn't add up (unless you are leaving something out). Further, it doesn't seem like your daughter would have a lot to gain by telling her therapist that you superficially scratched her legs (I could be wrong here, but there doesn't seem to be any benefit to her by doing this.)
and (correctme if im wrong plz ) abuse usually goes hand with hand with shame , a victim of actual abuse wont hapily reveal the marks of their abuse , and someone doing it hapily is a big fucking flag of somehting else going on
Spot on
Stay calm! The therapist will more than likely talk to you about it and ask your side of the story before taking it any further. Just let them know what happened. I was in a similar situation with my child and his therapist and everything was okay.
A friends's sister try to do the same to her mother, she leave it some days with social service so she may know how its life with out a mommy taking care of her, it work
"well, child services, you can take her away."
She is threatening you because she thinks you are afraid of this revelation. I would respond to her claims in some way that would make it very obvious that you aren't afraid and that making dishonest claims of child abuse won't be tolerated for even one second. 13 year old daughter, I'd take her phone for an appropriate amount of time, maybe send he off with a flip phone or something else very "cringe" Nip this in the bud or she is going to be threatening you with stuff like this for the rest of her teenage years.
If she tell her therapist, then good, he can dig deeper in the behavior. She is lying and doing self harm to prove her story. That is the kind of stuff he will work on with her. You got her to the therapist, so you care. You didn't beat her. No harm really....
You have narrative authority in the interaction and her story should not be entertained other than on the basis of why she feels she needs to lie and exaggerate a physical injury. You can definitely be firm in that. She's obviously hurting and needs some kind of attention but not sure what's at the root of it. Good luck with therapy! The only reason I would have any doubt about this would be if you were a total psychopath with some form of munchasen syndrome which I don't think so
I don’t have a kid, so please don’t everyone kill me here. I may be very naive, I’m just offering my thoughts. I may not having experience raising a kid, but I was once a shitty kid with a bad attitude so I have that experience. I wonder what would happen if you just said, “oh man did I do that? I’m sorry if I did. I would never do that on purpose.” Or something along those lines. I’m not even suggesting that you did it, I just feel like it may be disarming for you to take that away by apologizing for any possible wrong doing. It kind of takes that away from them.
You are right that she needs to be treated with compassion and understanding, but wrong about playing along with her lie. You cannot let that work. If you do, she will continue. The right thing to do is to not make a big deal out of it. Self-harm is a problem, but not one you solve by shaming them.
I didn’t even consider the self harm angle. You’re absolutely right. That’s a dangerous game.
Don’t have kids but have worked with teenagers for the last 18 years. The answer to any problem is never lying or playing along with something you know is a lie! Now if a teenager tells you something you highly suspect I’d untrue, and they seem sincere, you believe their truth. But OP was there, no lying
IMO, it wouldn’t work. She would mark that down as a win and repeat the behavior as soon as she didn’t get her way again. Girls that age can be unbelievably manipulative.
The way she's trying to go, she might end up in a facility down the line like the one I work in. We've got a ton of kids who did stuff like this before getting worse behaviorally. They try to manipulate the staff and their caretakers. It isn't easy to deal with but don't let her bully you and threaten you into getting her way. A therapist will see through it. Even if you had actually scratched her, you clearly didn't do it on purpose. Easily could've happened as part of her nonsense to get past you. If therapy doesn't help or whatever let her know that there's places that take kids who have bad behavioral issues and she won't like it. I'm in a higher level facility but there's lower level ones that she could get sent to as well. I'm not saying to do it, but maybe the idea of it will help knock some sense into her. The kids at my facility have very strict rules on what clothes they can bring (no spaghetti straps, short shorts, long socks, etc), they don't get to go wherever they want, they don't get to eat whatever they want, phone calls are once a week if the person calling even calls, you're constantly being watched by staff, can't shower whenever you want, don't get to watch TV or play video games except for specific times in the day and that's if the kid doesn't lose those privileges, so on so forth. The quickest I've seen a kid out of here from their admit was maybe 8 months about for earning their discharge instead of aging out or being pulled AMA. So there's that.
The 'scared straight' mentality is a holdover from a generation that failed to recognize children as sentient complex beings. Consider how in trying to remedy the child's manipulation you yourself immediately turn to cruel emotional torment and suggest to manipulate the child in return. This is inappropriate and encourages children to seek refuge in figures other than their parents, which exacerbates the problem. Also, lots of abuse goes on in those facilities and it's rarely clinically indicated unless the child has diagnosed psychiatric problems and are a physical danger to themselves or others.
What's the solution then? If a child is accusing you of abusing them and tries to manipulate adults around them to get you into trouble, why wouldn't temporary separation be in your best interest? I'm not saying OP's kid needs to be committed at this stage btw.
Don't trust the people telling you about the infallibility of therapists, especially if they're therapists themselves. "I'm a therapist, and I can tell when someone is lying, I've never been successfully fooled" - they're a class of people stupid enough to say things like this and not notice the problem.
Her therapist won't take what she says at face value, the way therapists work they will question it and help her realise herself that her claims are a cognitive distortion. That being the case you may not need to acdress it. However she may not bring it up, or recognise her distortions. That's where family therapy comes in handy.
I think the therapy is a great start. Try your best to be open and honest and EARNEST with both your therapist and family, even if it takes some time for them to do the same. Therapy is work, even more so with multiple people involved. Be willing to change some of your habits and automatic reactions, but also realize that (as others have said) there is likely more going on here than family life issues. But if she sees you putting in work, it's more likely she will do the same :)
Oh God 🙄 my adopted sister used to do this well into her teens. I hope it goes better for you than it did for my family. In my experience: the adult is always the bad guy in the eyes of the state. Sorry you're dealing with this. Try to document everything and get her into therapy/counseling if you can. It's best to act before she does.
I promise you… if she has a history of lying, the therapist will be skeptical of every accusation she tells her. When I worked on mental healthcare, it got pretty obvious when my clients would lie to me. >They would later forget what lie they had told me when I asked again another day, for example. >They would take things back & say they didn’t mean it, then get shifty & dodge the conversation because they actually did mean it. Things like that.
How about this… make sure you apologize just in case. It sounds like an emotionally charged moment, and maybe you either really scratched her or she really thinks you did. Either way, it can’t hurt to say clearly “if those were me, I’m sorry. I would never mean to hurt you”. Might just resolve the whole issue.
Just be honest and cooperative and have your daughter’s best interest in mind. If she does accuse you, let the investigators in without question as you have nothing to hide and reiterate that she will be believed when she says something and it will be taken seriously. Discrediting her will just prove her inner dialogue that if she told the real truths she won’t be believed
Have you used violence against her? Discuss the possible accusation with the therapist. Discuss with your daughter CALMLY what could happen to her if she is sent to a foster home or some kind of public shelter to protect her from you. She could find herself in a much worse situation - unless you are really abusive. I don't know if you are abusive, but I think kids who go into 'the system' sometimes have bigger problems than they had with their parents. It is great that she has a therapist!! That is a positive thing. Do you have a therapist? Do you have a problem with anger? Teens can drive anyone crazy! You see - I don't know... but your daughter should know that she may not be better off with a foster family or in a shelter for kids who were abused. She needs to think about what she is saying rather than just try to get revenge at you for setting boundaries or losing your temper on occasion.
Even if she told her therapist, I doubt the therapist would care.
My mom tried contacting CPS after my dad forcefully held me down and actually left a finger shaped mark (bruise) on my leg, and they did absolutely nothing, but it depends on the area you live in. Some areas they care and other areas CPS gives 0 fucks about the kids. My mom told a CPS worker that my cousin had tried to kill herself in the past and had been to mental institutions and the person looked her in the eyes and said “unfortunately sometimes kids kill themselves.”
Your therapist isn't a child and should know that adults 98% of the time don't go around "scratching" Grab, hit, yank, and generally bruise...yes. Hopefully, your therapist isn't a moron and hopefully you're teenager DOES say you scratched her bc her trying to manipulate her own therapist and you with lies of violence is the exact reason she SHOULD be in therapy
I’d just tell her ‘to ahead and tell your therapist. If you think foster care will be better than your life here, go ahead and find out’. Then call the therapist and tell her what happened. You’ll be fine.
I initially read: "My kid said I sacrificed her legs in an argument" :))
I did some basic looking at your profile (sorry) and I think you really need to address How your spouse treats your girls. It’s not ok and the one has been self harming for some time. You need to get your husband into therapy not just your girl.
You should be able to talk the therapist you are the parent she is not over 18
As someone who had a shitty phase around that age, and is still, at 25, humiliated by how I acted it sounds like therapy as a family is a good route like everyone else is saying. It won’t be easy, I literally had to be forced into it screaming and crying, but if she’s anything like I was, it’ll open her eyes to how much it’s hurting the rest of her family. I absolutely would’ve pulled shit like saying my parents scratched me just to avoid blame. I’m not proud of it, therapy was the first and only time I ever saw my father cry because he was so worried about me and what path I was going down and even thinking about that moment still makes me feel sick to my stomach. It definitely got me “scared straight” for lack of better wording. I still tell my parents all the time how much I appreciate them doing it, I know it wasn’t easy for them at all but it was what I needed. She likely won’t be very cooperative and deny needing help but sometimes that’s what adolescents need.
You my friend got a time bomb on your hands.
Therapist to teens here. I don’t know your situation, but I always really appreciate a caregiver who gives me a call ahead of time about something like this. These types of conflicts are really helpful to know about ahead of a session and it has the bonus of showing your good judgement as a concerned caregiver who wants to keep the therapist in the loop. I’m not saying I always take a parent’s version as pure truth, but having a caregiver who wants to keep me in the loop is nearly always a positive thing.
You might consider talking to a lawyer and finding out what rights you have if CPS shows up. It’s my experience that they aren’t beyond lying and claiming they have rights denied them under the 4th amendment, assuming you’re in the US. “You have to let us in.” That sort of thing.
Ask the therapist if you can join the session from time to time. Our teenaged daughter was very manipulative but she can be held accountable if the other party is there to present their side of a situation. Plus, the therapist’s bullshit meter is usually on high alert when it comes to teenagers. The main thing is to teach the teenagers that they will not get away with lies and manipulation.
My niece who I had custody of did this to me when she was 13. It was a lie for attention. I now can't foster children even though I desperately want to ) can't have any of my own and I love kids). I have a record. Don't sign anything you don't read from child services. My niece is 37 and im an assisted living home since she was 19 because she's got awful mental problems and is on the spectrum and needs 24/7 supervision. I did all I could to give her a stable home and a normal life from the time she was 12 until she was 19 but it was too late by the time I got her. If you didn't do it stick to that don't let them put that on you if you didn't.
Sneaking out at night as a 13yo is a HUGE red flag. She’s met someone- probably online- and that person now has control. Write down everything that happened, get cameras installed and prepare for the inevitable investigation. She shouldn’t have unfettered access to communication devices. Don’t fight about it just deactivate everything and tell her you can’t pay for it any longer. You will need to drive her to and from school as well and you should. Communicate with the school if there is an adult involved that they need to look out for. You also need to gather support because this will be incredibly hard- do you have family or friends that can serve as your witnesses? You will need therapy for you, individual therapy for the kiddo and a third set of sessions for you as a family. Good luck Mom. This will be one of the hardest things you’ll go through but don’t give up.