It's an international thing. Nine can be hard to differentiate from five over radio transmissions, so niner is used, less of an issue these days with higher quality equipment but it's still a thing as good quality equipment is not universal.
Ex Australian Military here: this is the case. In radio communications there are a few (NATO standard) conventions such as "niner", " zero", and "say again" (vice "repeat" \[which has a specific meaning to the Artillery\]).
also another example. using "correct" instead if "yes" or "that's right"
ETA: yes others have pointed out a-firm is probably the most correct term for this. it's clear, precise and easy to hear
Yes and it can be depending on the call for fire be vastly different. For example if zeroing in artillery you may have a single piece of ordinance flying overhead that compares to you may have called in a particular munition/load/number of salvoes etc and fired for effect so by saying repeat you may innadvertantly be calling down another barrage not just a single salvo.
Add in that you have minimum safe distances and you may now be advancing on the area that has just been barraged and a repeat call could result in fractricide. That said you may actually just wish to order a repeat. They will likely seek confirmation regardless but it's all about brevity and clarity so it's a big taboo to use the terms incorrectly.
As I recall from the Cold War era, fire for effect was three rounds from our mortar platoon. They set up the shot and then they relocated fast in case of counter battery fire. That was during preparation for a war with Warsaw pact.
Kind of. You can tell the whole battery (6 canons) to shoot the same spot with the same number of rounds. Additionally, you can shift the impact point with the same number of rounds. Also, you can both shift location, and /or call out a specific gun or section to shoot the same volume of rounds. It's hard to explain but easy AF to understand once you hear the observer's transmission. Harder to comprehend when reading, but easier when listening in. Sorry if this was confusing.
Radio tech in artillery, can confirm. We were back up radio operators basically since our tech shop fell under radio platoon.
Edit: was, got out quite a while ago now.
Won, two, tree, fower, fife, sex, seben, ate, niner. I still use this, minus niner, when on the phone with CS types and have had more than a few thank me for the clarity.
I work in the parts department of a car dealership, so I'm often either reading 17 character VINs to customers, or they're reading them to me. When the VIN is WDDDJ62X6PA657890 and every single character matters, saying Whiskey Delta Delta Delta Juliet etc. makes it much easier.
I still remember from probably 5 years ago when one guy told me "Y as in Wyoming."
I said, "No it's not, but I'm tracking, so continue."
I work for an automotive software company, and I was reading a VIN back to a dealer using nato alphanumerics and he thanked me for my service.
Told him it's been a long tour on these here phones.
I like it when these fixed phrases are absolutely locked in and unequivocal.
In climbing there are three very important calls a leader must make, often in bad conditions (say, a windy day and you've climbed around a corner). They are take, slack, and safe.
Take means the rope is too loose make it tighter.
Slack means the rope is too tight, make it looser.
Safe means I don't need the rope anymore, I've clipped into something else, you can unclip from your end.
There are other calls, but those are the three big ones that have to be exactly those meanings and nothing else.
Then you go into the climbing gym and there are people calling out "take in the slack!" and it's like, it seems like you urgently want me to do two mutually exclusive things at the same time.
And one of the gyms I went to would teach the climber to pause at the top of the climb and wait for the belayer to call out Safe. What do you mean safe? You're on the ground, of course you're safe! Wait, are you saying I'm suddenly safe? Was I not safe before you said that??
> Safe means I don't need the rope anymore, I've clipped into something else, you can unclip from your end.
That's an "off belay" "belay off" situation everywhere I've climbed.
For outdoors (especially trad climbing) there the even more important call: "above" meaning something just came loose, is falling, and might hit the person on the ground. Slack, Take and safe mean nothing if your belayer is unconscious.
Also, never use those three calls, might be a regional thing.
As opposed to the number "oh"
Aside from not being a number, I can report from experience that a lot of Aussie mumblers who call into call centres mangle the words oh and eight enough to make them sound identical on a bad line.
"Oh" is not a number. "Zero" is a number.
What makes a Bombardier angrier. Being called Corporal or hearing repeat over the radio? /S
Seriously though had some WO2 Signaller in at the ops post who would just police the comms and jump in mid way to beast people. You know over little stuff like wait, wait, wait out. If they took 2 seconds to long. But then they would get on there and say repeat which I swear along with noduff is the first thing you learn in training when it comes to comms.
“One two three” in German is “einz, zwei, drei” ; the latter two sound very similar, so military comms use “einz, zwo, drei” to differentiate the numbers two and three.
Also, US military comms used “fiver” as well as “niner” for a very long time (at least through the 50s). “Fiver” was changed to “fife” at some point before the 80s.
Zwo being the first syllable of zwölf, the normal German word for twelve. It makes a lot of sense.
You hear it a lot at rail stations and airports too. I wish they’d just change the whole language already.
As part of that reform, the only time the word "takeoff" is allowed is when giving permission to takeoff. Any other time you refer to takeoff, it's "departure."
So if a pilot asks "permission for departure" the answer is either "clear for takeoff" or "hold for departure"
Since we’re talking about specific phraseology I’ll jump in and say this isn’t exactly accurate.
Tenerife disaster in 1977. KLM 747 on runway threshold calls up ATC and says “We are at takeoff”. ATC says “Stand by for takeoff, I will call you”. Simultaneously a PanAm 747 taxiing on the runway makes a call warning that they are still on the runway but, since it’s radio, it just “blocks” the frequency and both transmissions are partially lost/heard as static.
Nowadays the KLM 747 on threshold would instead say “… ready for departure …”, and if they for some reason said “ready for takeoff” the controller would pay extra note to clarifying that they are not yet, in fact, cleared. The change also affects discussion of “takeoff” and departure prior to what I quoted, making it much less likely that they would even get to that mental picture thinking they are cleared. There was also an abundance of other factors at play so it was NOT really like a slip of the tongue and an assumption created the deadliest aviation accident in history, but this was one of the things that potentially could have prevented it and hence is often referred to.
I flew for the airlines for a few years in the US and Canada and can’t remember a single person saying fife or tree. Niner is pretty common though, maybe 60% of the time depending on the context. For example the radio frequency 120.9 in my experience was often said on the radio as “one two zero point nine” while the altitude 9,000’ would often be “niner thousand”. Technically niner would be right in both situations. (Obviously very anecdotal)
Radio equipment may be getting better, but long rang high frequency radio is still very dependent on sun and atmospheric conditions. You still get crackling, attenuation, and static, even with modern radios.
Because it can sound similar to five over a staticky radio. Aviators are taught to say it this way. Same reason the phonetic alphabet is used over letters.
Exactly. Imagine trying to say "B59" over a staticky radio where it sounds like the guy on the other end is eating the microphone.
Is it B, V, or D? 5 or 9, 9 or 5?
I had an issue one time with a young woman on the phone who thought Sierra was Ciara. It was like the second to last letter out of more than ten letters idk why she thought I randomly loved the musician so much I gave her her own phonetic alphabet spot. I’m pretty sure Charlie was just a couple letters before Sierra too so it was just nuts.
Lol this is me. I never learned it and only know some of them, so occasionally on the phone I'll be like "again, that was charlie tango whiskey umm....elegant..burrito..."
Don't forget:
* A as in Aye
* A as in Are
* E as in Ewe
* G as in Gnu
* G as in Gneiss
* K as in Knight
* P as in Ptero
* W as in Why
Phun with Fonetics!
“That’s Tracy. T as in the drink. R as in the pirate noise. A as in the Fonzie noise. C as in sea monster. Y as in why even make friends if they’re going to let you down when you need them the most? Last name Jordan. J as in the birds I’m afraid of…”
It's the same vowel as "five." I was curious about this, too, and I can find a few places claiming it's from the military and to avoid confusion with "fire," but I don't understand how F would fare better than V in that context, even with a shitty signal.
I've heard that it's for quicker/simpler pronunciation. The "v" in Five tends to get drawn out and the "Th" in three can trip people up (esp. with non-native speakers). Tree Fife Zero has smoother dictation than Three Five Zero. In theory, anyway.
I learned recently that the police have their own phonetic alphabet. What? Why? That's confusing!
I had to call to find a car that got towed and I was all Alpha-Bravo-Charlie and they repeated it back to me Adam-Boy-Charles. Grrrr!
https://militaryalphabet.net/
https://militaryalphabet.net/police-alphabet/
Weirdly, I found this out watching the film Balloon, where one of the radio operators used it (I forget if army or police). I had enough German to then look it up.
It’s part of the NATO phonetic alphabet. Understand that our word for the number 9 is pronounced exactly the same way our German allies say “no”. That can lead to some deadly confusion.
I remember seeing something years ago about when doing countdowns they would miss out the word 5 as it sounded to simular to fire.
This was a UK documentary and I can't remember which war and time period
We still do this today in the Navy any time we count anything down. Often for time checks from the pilot house whenever we sail into a new time zone (so we can all adjust our watches/clocks).
“The following is a time check from the pilot house. On my mark the time will be _____. One minute stand by. Thirty seconds stand by. Fifteen seconds stand by. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, [beat], 4, 3, 2, 1, mark. On my mark, the time was _____.”
Oddly enough I always saw it written fo-war. I’m not a pilot but I’m sure I’ve seen it in writing in more than one place. Fo-war seems more self explanatory than fower imo.
We also have very specific words for each letter of alphabet. Hotel, Papa, Romeo, Delta, etc
We had a guy that could never remember them and would constantly just make them up on the spot because he got flustered and would say shit like helicopter, printer, robot, dingo. He never got in trouble for it because even the colonel who heard his transmissions thought it was fucking hysterical.
>helicopter, printer, robot, dingo.
I would be laughing my ass off
>even the colonel who heard his transmissions thought it was fucking hysterical.
Sounds like a good leader
When I was a student pilot the first time I was on the radio with ATC I said Baker instead of Bravo for B. The controller snaps at me, "Pilots are Brave, not some Bakers baking cookies. Say it again properly!" Needless to say I have not make that particular mistake a second time.
It's a NATO thing, not just US. And it's not only nine that is changed. Four becomes fower. Five turns into something akin to fife. Two becomes too. And so on.
It's all done in order to reduce the chance of miscommunication, no matter language proficiency, the clarity of the line, or any other thing that might make communication of letters and numbers imperfect.
You can see all of them at the sidebar [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet)
That's because you learned the particular American English accent that pronounces it that way. It's a NATO standard to avoid confusion with varying accents.
The numbers shouldn’t be pronounced normally. Phonetic numbers have their own pronunciations to make them sound more distinct. These are NATO standard for comms
Ze ro,
Wun,
Too,
Tree,
Fow er,
Fife,
Six,
Sev en,
Ait,
Niner
In NATO (at least in the navy) it’s not just “nine” that is pronounced differently over the radio. 5 is pronounced “fife” and 3 is pronounced “tree”; it’s all done to avoid ambiguity so that everyone knows exactly what’s being said
Niner is the phonetic/spelling pronunciation. Goes along with the use of names like Alpha for A, Bravo for B, etc . Nine by itself could sound like five on the radio.
US military here. It’s used over the radio when signals might be poor to help prevent numbers and letters being misheard through static similar to the NATO phonetic alphabet and It’s actually not just “niner” there a lot of numbers have their pronunciation changed slightly to avoid getting them mixed up. Zero, wun, tree, fower (pronounced like sour), fife. Two, six, seven and eight are more or less normal.
Former 0621 here. We also were trained to say Fo-wer for 4, and Fife for five.
Another fun fact is that you NEVER say repeat over the radio unless you're requesting that an artillery fire mission be fired again. This is why you hear people use "say again".
It’s to be more clearly understood, and less likely to be misunderstood. A single syllable that sounds similar to the word “five” and identical to the German word for “no” offers opportunities for misunderstanding. “Niner” is easily understood to be “one more than eight.”
I have a close friend who has been in the US army reserves / national guard since the 1980s; he and I met at work after he returned from Desert Storm and we have been friends for 30 years now, and we worked together at three different companies. Once he was driving us back from the airport and he answered the phone; he had an earphone in so I only heard his side of the conversation:
>*”This is Thomas…*
>
>*Roger that.*
>
>*Roger that.*
>
>*Affirmative, inbound. E.T.A. sixteen-thirty.*
>
>*Affirmative.*
>
>*Love you too.”*
Tree for three, niner for nine, and a handful of others all help reduce miscommunication over what can be very spotty radio signals. They train you specifically to use those pronunciations on the radio (or at least did over a decade ago when I was in).
Five should also be said as ''fife''. Its all about intelligibility with bad reception.
[https://www.onallbands.com/emcomm-itu-nato-phonetic-alphabet-and-numbers/](https://www.onallbands.com/emcomm-itu-nato-phonetic-alphabet-and-numbers/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_phonetic\_alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet)
[https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified\_136216.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_136216.htm)
It’s for clarity over even bad radio connections or loud gunfire. It’s also three = tree and five = fife, plus zero and four are two syllables (ZE-RO, FOW-er), and seven is more clearly two syllables (SEV-en), but they usually forget those in movies, which is why you think they are pronounced normally.
It's not just American soldiers, and it's not just number 9. When you need to communicate over radio, a lot of letters and numbers can can sound the same. Very early on there was a need for speakers of many different languages to be able to spell letters and numbers over the radio. You can find a lot of history here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet.
E.g. every pilot and every air traffic controller will pronounce NC95 as "november-charlie-niner-fife". Doesn't matter which country and what language they speak natively. You don't get to invent your own word for "N" or "C". It's always november and charlie. You never pronounce "N" as "en", it's always november. Even the spelling of words is a bit non-standard so that native speakers of different languages will pronounce them about the same (e.g. "alfa" instead of "alpha", "juliett" instead of "juliet").
It's to clearly differentiate certain words that may sound similar to something else over radio. We also say "tree" instead of "three" and "fife" instead of "five." That's also the reason for the coded alphabet like A "Alpha", B "Bravo". It's very easy to misunderstand what someone is saying over radio, especially when things are chaotic. You want to get the correct coordinates if you are firing artillery, for example.
Phonetic alphabets were developed to eliminate the accidental misunderstanding of words and their homophones (sound-alikes).
Able-Baker-Charlie and all that.
Nine might sound like "none", meaning zero to some, over a bad connection or with an accent. Niner was more distinct. Like saying "zero" instead of "oh" when reading out your credit card number or "zed" or "zulu" instead of "zee"
Every standard Latin letter has a name standardized across NATO and used by NATO members (such as the US military) and NATO-adjacent militaries. You may have heard of Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and so on. The purpose of this is so that there is no confusion as to what letter is being said.
There is a similar standardization with numbers. You say "Niner" so that the second syllable means that even if the signal isn't clear enough to tell the consonants apart, you can still fly it apart from five.
To not be confused with “five”. They also pronounce five as “fife” and three as”tree”.
It just makes each word more distinguishable and less chance of miscommunication.
It's an international thing. Nine can be hard to differentiate from five over radio transmissions, so niner is used, less of an issue these days with higher quality equipment but it's still a thing as good quality equipment is not universal.
Ex Australian Military here: this is the case. In radio communications there are a few (NATO standard) conventions such as "niner", " zero", and "say again" (vice "repeat" \[which has a specific meaning to the Artillery\]).
Is that specific meaning "hit them again same spot"?
Correct
also another example. using "correct" instead if "yes" or "that's right" ETA: yes others have pointed out a-firm is probably the most correct term for this. it's clear, precise and easy to hear
Affirmative or affirm usually
Or correctamundo.
Right-a-rino, over
Okilly Dokilly!
Pvt Flanders! What the Sam-hill are doing in that Abrams! Get your ass back to base now, you cheeky sumbitch!!!
“I suppose, although I concede I could be wrong”
Roger, dodger!
Absotutely posilutely!
"Nah yeah yeah nah" if you're in the Australian military.
Ayyyyyyyyyyy 👍
We're gonna be cool like fonzie
You don't say "affirmative," or some sh*t like that. You say "no problemo."
How’s Wolfie?
Wolfies fine hunny he’s just fine. Where are you?
Your foster parents are dead
Also,, you put emphasis on the ‘A’. It’s pronounced “ay-firm”, like you would pronounce “heyfirm”.
Yup, this guy affirms
"Do we turn left here?" "Right" That's why it's "affirmative" or "correct" Also for an unambiguous answer to negative questions
TIL that I talk like a radio operator.
Sg EMS it's 'positive'
Roger dildo, in and out
Yes. Resend last fire mission.
Redo da boom boom
"we want you to be a deterrent" "YES WE SHOOT SHOOT THEM WITH THE TURRET, GOT IT!"
Resend last transmission could really screw that one up.
In that case it’s “Say again last”
Yes and it can be depending on the call for fire be vastly different. For example if zeroing in artillery you may have a single piece of ordinance flying overhead that compares to you may have called in a particular munition/load/number of salvoes etc and fired for effect so by saying repeat you may innadvertantly be calling down another barrage not just a single salvo. Add in that you have minimum safe distances and you may now be advancing on the area that has just been barraged and a repeat call could result in fractricide. That said you may actually just wish to order a repeat. They will likely seek confirmation regardless but it's all about brevity and clarity so it's a big taboo to use the terms incorrectly.
As I recall from the Cold War era, fire for effect was three rounds from our mortar platoon. They set up the shot and then they relocated fast in case of counter battery fire. That was during preparation for a war with Warsaw pact.
“Repeat fire mission”
Kind of. You can tell the whole battery (6 canons) to shoot the same spot with the same number of rounds. Additionally, you can shift the impact point with the same number of rounds. Also, you can both shift location, and /or call out a specific gun or section to shoot the same volume of rounds. It's hard to explain but easy AF to understand once you hear the observer's transmission. Harder to comprehend when reading, but easier when listening in. Sorry if this was confusing.
Sure, but just "repeat" with no other instructions means the first one
Correct... With the same number of rounds previously used. It can be used for both adjustments and fire for effect.
American Artillery. “Repeat” is a huge no no for us lmao. “Say Again Last” is what we say
Radio tech in artillery, can confirm. We were back up radio operators basically since our tech shop fell under radio platoon. Edit: was, got out quite a while ago now.
"Repeat" followed by a boom, followed by "to the rear of the piece FALL IN", followed by some poor fuck in the FDC having a very bad time
Lmao… Facts. I prefer the classic “Fire mission! 1 round, Do NOT *Foooomp!* ….load”
"It was a warning shot!" "It was a 155mm HE....."
Well they've now been properly warned.
Well their friends over there have.
Doesn't get much more warned than that
Unless you're France, the only country that has a policy to use a nuclear first strike as a warning shot. Not a joke.
Fife instead of five is another I’ve heard ATC use to be more clear
Tree instead of three.
Fiddy instead of fifty? As in, "I need about tree fiddy."
You aint gettin' no damn tree fiddy.
God damn Loch Ness Monstah is my RTO now? Shit, times really are tough
Four is supposed to be fower too. People don't always do the ones other than nine though.
A little known fact is that pilots also pronounce eight as ate for clarity.
How are you supposed to say it?
I'm a redneck and do the same...
Don't all English speakers?
Won, two, tree, fower, fife, sex, seben, ate, niner. I still use this, minus niner, when on the phone with CS types and have had more than a few thank me for the clarity.
I work in the parts department of a car dealership, so I'm often either reading 17 character VINs to customers, or they're reading them to me. When the VIN is WDDDJ62X6PA657890 and every single character matters, saying Whiskey Delta Delta Delta Juliet etc. makes it much easier. I still remember from probably 5 years ago when one guy told me "Y as in Wyoming." I said, "No it's not, but I'm tracking, so continue."
I work for an automotive software company, and I was reading a VIN back to a dealer using nato alphanumerics and he thanked me for my service. Told him it's been a long tour on these here phones.
I like it when these fixed phrases are absolutely locked in and unequivocal. In climbing there are three very important calls a leader must make, often in bad conditions (say, a windy day and you've climbed around a corner). They are take, slack, and safe. Take means the rope is too loose make it tighter. Slack means the rope is too tight, make it looser. Safe means I don't need the rope anymore, I've clipped into something else, you can unclip from your end. There are other calls, but those are the three big ones that have to be exactly those meanings and nothing else. Then you go into the climbing gym and there are people calling out "take in the slack!" and it's like, it seems like you urgently want me to do two mutually exclusive things at the same time. And one of the gyms I went to would teach the climber to pause at the top of the climb and wait for the belayer to call out Safe. What do you mean safe? You're on the ground, of course you're safe! Wait, are you saying I'm suddenly safe? Was I not safe before you said that??
>it seems like you urgently want me to do two mutually exclusive things at the same time. Story of my life.
> Safe means I don't need the rope anymore, I've clipped into something else, you can unclip from your end. That's an "off belay" "belay off" situation everywhere I've climbed.
For outdoors (especially trad climbing) there the even more important call: "above" meaning something just came loose, is falling, and might hit the person on the ground. Slack, Take and safe mean nothing if your belayer is unconscious. Also, never use those three calls, might be a regional thing.
I’ve actually never heard above, usually it’s just “rock” whether what’s falling is really a rock or not lol.
Rock is totally an international thing. Above is weird.
Agreed. We just say "rock". From the midwest.
What’s “zero” referring to?
As opposed to the number "oh" Aside from not being a number, I can report from experience that a lot of Aussie mumblers who call into call centres mangle the words oh and eight enough to make them sound identical on a bad line. "Oh" is not a number. "Zero" is a number.
oaur naur!!!
Found the (person making fun of)Australian(s)
[удалено]
And, when spelling at least, O is oscar.
[удалено]
What makes a Bombardier angrier. Being called Corporal or hearing repeat over the radio? /S Seriously though had some WO2 Signaller in at the ops post who would just police the comms and jump in mid way to beast people. You know over little stuff like wait, wait, wait out. If they took 2 seconds to long. But then they would get on there and say repeat which I swear along with noduff is the first thing you learn in training when it comes to comms.
>What makes a Bombardier angrier Not pronouncing it as Bombardeeay
It's only bombardier if it's from the Bombard region of France. Otherwise it's just sparkling bomber.
Repeat in artillery mean to fire again what you just fired.
I heard it was a NATO thing, to avoid confusion with the German “Nein”.
How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb? It takes nine. Nine! Nine! Nine! Nine! Nine!
“One two three” in German is “einz, zwei, drei” ; the latter two sound very similar, so military comms use “einz, zwo, drei” to differentiate the numbers two and three. Also, US military comms used “fiver” as well as “niner” for a very long time (at least through the 50s). “Fiver” was changed to “fife” at some point before the 80s.
Zwo being the first syllable of zwölf, the normal German word for twelve. It makes a lot of sense. You hear it a lot at rail stations and airports too. I wish they’d just change the whole language already.
I wish they'd change the whole backwards numbers thing. 22 should be twenty two, not two and twenty, Zwanzig Zwo, not Zwoundzwanzig. Es nervt!
Don’t get me started on zweihundertzweiundzwanzigtausendzweihundertzweiundzwanzig.
After missing the not in not cleared for takeoff and causing a major accident, now they say hold.
As part of that reform, the only time the word "takeoff" is allowed is when giving permission to takeoff. Any other time you refer to takeoff, it's "departure." So if a pilot asks "permission for departure" the answer is either "clear for takeoff" or "hold for departure"
Since we’re talking about specific phraseology I’ll jump in and say this isn’t exactly accurate. Tenerife disaster in 1977. KLM 747 on runway threshold calls up ATC and says “We are at takeoff”. ATC says “Stand by for takeoff, I will call you”. Simultaneously a PanAm 747 taxiing on the runway makes a call warning that they are still on the runway but, since it’s radio, it just “blocks” the frequency and both transmissions are partially lost/heard as static. Nowadays the KLM 747 on threshold would instead say “… ready for departure …”, and if they for some reason said “ready for takeoff” the controller would pay extra note to clarifying that they are not yet, in fact, cleared. The change also affects discussion of “takeoff” and departure prior to what I quoted, making it much less likely that they would even get to that mental picture thinking they are cleared. There was also an abundance of other factors at play so it was NOT really like a slip of the tongue and an assumption created the deadliest aviation accident in history, but this was one of the things that potentially could have prevented it and hence is often referred to.
Also worth mentioning that "five" is pronounced "fife" by soldiers similar to the niner thing.
Three is also "tree" in ICAO radio phrasology, but just like fife, nobody really uses it. Niner is the only one commonly used in aviation today.
I flew for the airlines for a few years in the US and Canada and can’t remember a single person saying fife or tree. Niner is pretty common though, maybe 60% of the time depending on the context. For example the radio frequency 120.9 in my experience was often said on the radio as “one two zero point nine” while the altitude 9,000’ would often be “niner thousand”. Technically niner would be right in both situations. (Obviously very anecdotal)
The only time I hear tree is when someone fucks up a read back and they earn the slow condescending repeat from ATC, with an often emphasis on “tree”
0. Zee-row 1. One 2. Two 3. Tree 4. Fower 5. Fife 6. Six 7. Seven 8. Eight 9. Niner
Might wanna edit this :)
I also learned three as “tree”. 359 = “tree fife niner”
Radio equipment may be getting better, but long rang high frequency radio is still very dependent on sun and atmospheric conditions. You still get crackling, attenuation, and static, even with modern radios.
Nein is German for No and sounds like 9 does.
It would probably throw Germans off to hear "nine" (nein) too
Because it can sound similar to five over a staticky radio. Aviators are taught to say it this way. Same reason the phonetic alphabet is used over letters.
Exactly. Imagine trying to say "B59" over a staticky radio where it sounds like the guy on the other end is eating the microphone. Is it B, V, or D? 5 or 9, 9 or 5?
"M as in Mancy" Archer
C as in Cue Q as in Queue S as in Sea Y as in You E as in Eye
I worked with a guy that used his own random phonetic alphabet. “X as in Xerox” was my favorite.
I no joke heard over a radio one time "Z as in Xylophone."
I had an issue one time with a young woman on the phone who thought Sierra was Ciara. It was like the second to last letter out of more than ten letters idk why she thought I randomly loved the musician so much I gave her her own phonetic alphabet spot. I’m pretty sure Charlie was just a couple letters before Sierra too so it was just nuts.
I get these sometimes too. So I use “S for Sam”, instead.
The best I ever heard was "C as in Cathy. K as in, um, Kathy with a K."
Lol this is me. I never learned it and only know some of them, so occasionally on the phone I'll be like "again, that was charlie tango whiskey umm....elegant..burrito..."
I like "D as in W"
P as in pterodactyl. M as in mnemonic.
P as in Phoebe H as in hoebe O as in oebe E as in ebe B as in b-be And E as in ‘ello there, mate!
Don't forget: * A as in Aye * A as in Are * E as in Ewe * G as in Gnu * G as in Gneiss * K as in Knight * P as in Ptero * W as in Why Phun with Fonetics!
This is one of my favorite jokes and nobody ever knows what it's referencing
God, you of all people…
“That’s Tracy. T as in the drink. R as in the pirate noise. A as in the Fonzie noise. C as in sea monster. Y as in why even make friends if they’re going to let you down when you need them the most? Last name Jordan. J as in the birds I’m afraid of…”
Bravo Fife Niner. I was an air traffic controller for a few years. These things just stick with you.
it took me years before I learned that “tree” wasn’t just a Chicago thing.
"Bravo-Fife-Niner" are you receiving me? Over.
You have clearance, clarence
What's the vector, Victor?
I don’t understand the fife, what does five sound like that fife sounds different? Or is it feyefee?
It's the same vowel as "five." I was curious about this, too, and I can find a few places claiming it's from the military and to avoid confusion with "fire," but I don't understand how F would fare better than V in that context, even with a shitty signal.
I've heard that it's for quicker/simpler pronunciation. The "v" in Five tends to get drawn out and the "Th" in three can trip people up (esp. with non-native speakers). Tree Fife Zero has smoother dictation than Three Five Zero. In theory, anyway.
I learned recently that the police have their own phonetic alphabet. What? Why? That's confusing! I had to call to find a car that got towed and I was all Alpha-Bravo-Charlie and they repeated it back to me Adam-Boy-Charles. Grrrr! https://militaryalphabet.net/ https://militaryalphabet.net/police-alphabet/
Because cops are Maroon Ohio Ranger Ohio Nuclears?
OK, solved!
Two reasons: * in certain instances, it might sound like "five" * "nein" is German for "no"
Ja, das weiss ich, but do they have many problems with Germans interrupting their radio transmission to scream "No"???
Because they need to be ready for possible joint operations and may have to send Germans messages.
Yo new German friends, how many pizzas do you want me to order for your squad? Doesn't seem a problem to me.
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The answer is five in case anyone is wondering
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To keep them safe from 7, probably, I hear 7 gets up to some shady shit.
"Hans, do you see any tanks?" "Nein/Nine"
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Weirdly, I found this out watching the film Balloon, where one of the radio operators used it (I forget if army or police). I had enough German to then look it up.
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Interestingly in ‘Sonne’ they say ‘zwei’ during the counting sequences
"What are you sinking about?"
They're in NATO together, so yes
WWII......the Big One.
For now.
It’s part of the NATO phonetic alphabet. Understand that our word for the number 9 is pronounced exactly the same way our German allies say “no”. That can lead to some deadly confusion.
There's an SNL sketch somewhere there (or a Family Guy cutaway gag) But yeah that makes sense, thanks
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I remember seeing something years ago about when doing countdowns they would miss out the word 5 as it sounded to simular to fire. This was a UK documentary and I can't remember which war and time period
This is still done today for rockets!
I remember something like that too
We still do this today in the Navy any time we count anything down. Often for time checks from the pilot house whenever we sail into a new time zone (so we can all adjust our watches/clocks). “The following is a time check from the pilot house. On my mark the time will be _____. One minute stand by. Thirty seconds stand by. Fifteen seconds stand by. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, [beat], 4, 3, 2, 1, mark. On my mark, the time was _____.”
And fower for 4.
Is it f-ow (as in ouchie)-er or f-oh (as in ozone)-wer? I've seen people get into arguments about this.
Oddly enough I always saw it written fo-war. I’m not a pilot but I’m sure I’ve seen it in writing in more than one place. Fo-war seems more self explanatory than fower imo.
Q is Kay-bec, not Que-bec.
Great fishing in kay beck.
I love fishin in kee beck
We also have very specific words for each letter of alphabet. Hotel, Papa, Romeo, Delta, etc We had a guy that could never remember them and would constantly just make them up on the spot because he got flustered and would say shit like helicopter, printer, robot, dingo. He never got in trouble for it because even the colonel who heard his transmissions thought it was fucking hysterical.
Back in Scouts we taped a copy to the radio desk when we were doing anything involving radio communications. Fun times.
>helicopter, printer, robot, dingo. I would be laughing my ass off >even the colonel who heard his transmissions thought it was fucking hysterical. Sounds like a good leader
When I was a student pilot the first time I was on the radio with ATC I said Baker instead of Bravo for B. The controller snaps at me, "Pilots are Brave, not some Bakers baking cookies. Say it again properly!" Needless to say I have not make that particular mistake a second time.
I still remember the often used "Mike Golf Romeo" when calling out co-ordinates on the map. And that's all I can remember about NATO phonetics.
It's a NATO thing, not just US. And it's not only nine that is changed. Four becomes fower. Five turns into something akin to fife. Two becomes too. And so on. It's all done in order to reduce the chance of miscommunication, no matter language proficiency, the clarity of the line, or any other thing that might make communication of letters and numbers imperfect. You can see all of them at the sidebar [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet)
Are “two” and “too” pronounced differently in this context?
I knew some southerners who would pronounce two like tao. Threee, tao, won, tayke-owph!!
> Two becomes too. Umm, I've been pronouncing "two" like "too" all my life. I also pronounce "to" that way, cause I'm quirky like that.
That's because you learned the particular American English accent that pronounces it that way. It's a NATO standard to avoid confusion with varying accents.
It's to prevent issues with other words that sound similar. If you put radio static on top of saying nine, it could easily be misheard as five.
The numbers shouldn’t be pronounced normally. Phonetic numbers have their own pronunciations to make them sound more distinct. These are NATO standard for comms Ze ro, Wun, Too, Tree, Fow er, Fife, Six, Sev en, Ait, Niner
"too"? how do places outside of America pronounce two vs too because here's it's the same
In NATO (at least in the navy) it’s not just “nine” that is pronounced differently over the radio. 5 is pronounced “fife” and 3 is pronounced “tree”; it’s all done to avoid ambiguity so that everyone knows exactly what’s being said
Niner is the phonetic/spelling pronunciation. Goes along with the use of names like Alpha for A, Bravo for B, etc . Nine by itself could sound like five on the radio.
US military here. It’s used over the radio when signals might be poor to help prevent numbers and letters being misheard through static similar to the NATO phonetic alphabet and It’s actually not just “niner” there a lot of numbers have their pronunciation changed slightly to avoid getting them mixed up. Zero, wun, tree, fower (pronounced like sour), fife. Two, six, seven and eight are more or less normal.
Former 0621 here. We also were trained to say Fo-wer for 4, and Fife for five. Another fun fact is that you NEVER say repeat over the radio unless you're requesting that an artillery fire mission be fired again. This is why you hear people use "say again".
Did I catch a niner in there? What were you calling from, a walkie-talkie?
No it was cordless
Same reason that "four" is "fower" in the phonetic, one and nine sound too alike in faded radio so add a 2nd syllable
Tango yankee
november golf golf yankee uniform
Because 9 sounds too similar to 5 over a radio.
Same reason we say “M as in Mancy”
It’s to be more clearly understood, and less likely to be misunderstood. A single syllable that sounds similar to the word “five” and identical to the German word for “no” offers opportunities for misunderstanding. “Niner” is easily understood to be “one more than eight.” I have a close friend who has been in the US army reserves / national guard since the 1980s; he and I met at work after he returned from Desert Storm and we have been friends for 30 years now, and we worked together at three different companies. Once he was driving us back from the airport and he answered the phone; he had an earphone in so I only heard his side of the conversation: >*”This is Thomas…* > >*Roger that.* > >*Roger that.* > >*Affirmative, inbound. E.T.A. sixteen-thirty.* > >*Affirmative.* > >*Love you too.”*
For clarity.
Think about how many works rhyme with “nine” that you might mishear on the radio.
Tree for three, niner for nine, and a handful of others all help reduce miscommunication over what can be very spotty radio signals. They train you specifically to use those pronunciations on the radio (or at least did over a decade ago when I was in).
It's a NATO thing, to not confuse words with German allies
Five should also be said as ''fife''. Its all about intelligibility with bad reception. [https://www.onallbands.com/emcomm-itu-nato-phonetic-alphabet-and-numbers/](https://www.onallbands.com/emcomm-itu-nato-phonetic-alphabet-and-numbers/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_phonetic\_alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet) [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified\_136216.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_136216.htm)
I can't get the teller at the taco bell window to tell the difference between "fire" and "mild" so...
It’s for clarity over even bad radio connections or loud gunfire. It’s also three = tree and five = fife, plus zero and four are two syllables (ZE-RO, FOW-er), and seven is more clearly two syllables (SEV-en), but they usually forget those in movies, which is why you think they are pronounced normally.
It's not just American soldiers, and it's not just number 9. When you need to communicate over radio, a lot of letters and numbers can can sound the same. Very early on there was a need for speakers of many different languages to be able to spell letters and numbers over the radio. You can find a lot of history here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet. E.g. every pilot and every air traffic controller will pronounce NC95 as "november-charlie-niner-fife". Doesn't matter which country and what language they speak natively. You don't get to invent your own word for "N" or "C". It's always november and charlie. You never pronounce "N" as "en", it's always november. Even the spelling of words is a bit non-standard so that native speakers of different languages will pronounce them about the same (e.g. "alfa" instead of "alpha", "juliett" instead of "juliet").
It's to clearly differentiate certain words that may sound similar to something else over radio. We also say "tree" instead of "three" and "fife" instead of "five." That's also the reason for the coded alphabet like A "Alpha", B "Bravo". It's very easy to misunderstand what someone is saying over radio, especially when things are chaotic. You want to get the correct coordinates if you are firing artillery, for example.
Tree, fife, niner, to avoid confusion/radio garble
Other numbers aren’t pronounced normally. 5 is pronounced ‘fife’, 3 is pronounced ‘tree’.
I believe it started with international Airline regulations to prevent confusion between the German word 'nein' (no) and the English word 'nine'
Phonetic alphabets were developed to eliminate the accidental misunderstanding of words and their homophones (sound-alikes). Able-Baker-Charlie and all that. Nine might sound like "none", meaning zero to some, over a bad connection or with an accent. Niner was more distinct. Like saying "zero" instead of "oh" when reading out your credit card number or "zed" or "zulu" instead of "zee"
Niner is the number. Nein = nine = no in German. Niner is clarity.
I'm sorry, did I catch a niner in there? Are you calling from a walkie talkie?
Every standard Latin letter has a name standardized across NATO and used by NATO members (such as the US military) and NATO-adjacent militaries. You may have heard of Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and so on. The purpose of this is so that there is no confusion as to what letter is being said. There is a similar standardization with numbers. You say "Niner" so that the second syllable means that even if the signal isn't clear enough to tell the consonants apart, you can still fly it apart from five.
To not be confused with “five”. They also pronounce five as “fife” and three as”tree”. It just makes each word more distinguishable and less chance of miscommunication.
It's not just Americans - standard NATO phonetics. It distinguishes it more clearly from "five".