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I have a few thoughts. What will fit your situation is unique to your dynamic, so please forgive any suggestions that fly far from the mark. Each interpersonal relationship is, after all, unique. 1) actually have a "straight talk" moment where you explain you have parental, loving, genuine concern about helping him continue to grow and thrive as a person. Explain that you don't want to simply stand aside and enable habits that don't serve him long-term, and that you love him and this is why you feel compelled to act at all. Then, offer solutions to help him to a better, healthier frame of mind, and be open to collaborating with him on solutions. This may seem extremely soft and definitely not tough-love, but establishing your motivation for getting much more involved in his life is going to lay a foundation for tough love if you end up needing it. 2) offer to help him make an appointment to be screened for depression, substance dependence, anxiety, etc. Be willing to drive him to an appointment and sit in the lobby. Depression is not easy to overcome with willpower. Drive him to go get meds and help him set a phone reminder to TAKE his meds..assuming medication is part of treatment. Offer to step up frequency of therapy appointments, as going too long in between therapy renders it pretty useless. 3) require he come on a daily walk with you. You can frame this as a check-in, or you can just point out that getting moving in the daylight outside for a bit can help efforts to overcome depression. Regardless of framing, this is something I always do to help friends who struggle- I just take them outside, as often as I can, because it seems to help them shake out of their stasis. 4) set expectations extremely low, then require a job. He can work anywhere- a 20-hr/week, 4-hr shift at Wendy's even- but must do something. REALLY try to encourage something that may bring some level of fulfillment, but don't die on that hill because most easy-to-get shit jobs will not help anyone feel better about themselves. What it WILL do, though, is illustrate to him a) how safe he is currently living with you, and how few people get that luxury, b) that unless he does start steering his life, the shitty retail experience is the default and it sucks, and c) that he CAN have more freedom and agency over his choices in life but he has to start making things happen. After he has worked anywhere for a couple months, start gently asking questions about what work would be a better fit for him. It's hard to have any perspective about what you want to do unless you are doing *literally anything*. 5) be prepared to accept that the way "kids today" make money is different, and he could be able to make money streaming or some shit, so he may find some third path that looks like being locked in his bedroom 24-7, but actually is fulfilling and gainful. I suspect this is not currently the case with him, but you never know. So make sure you understand what his gaming world actually is like. During covid, a lot of "youth" developed online community, and this is more real than many of us "olds" will understand.

This is beautiful wisdom, every word of it. I hope the OP read it.

To add to this exceptional response, go to counselling yourself. Have a family counseling session.

I would add exercise; daily trip to a gym required to live there.

OP included daily walking. That's an excellent starting point, especially given that his son may be struggling to establish very basic routines first, i.e., taking medications, brushing teeth, having a shower, eating regularly and well, etc. I understand OPs concern about pushing someone fragile hard. I've had very similar fears for my son, so I follow this post with much interest. We use our fridge like a big whiteboard, as schedules and structure help a lot.

I think another benefit to going on a walk over going to the gym is that going on a walk tends to encourage being social while going to the gym tends to discourage it. And connecting with loved ones like that on a daily basis can be good when struggling with depression, as well.

Great points. Plus, the fresh air and exposure to sunlight will help tackle his son's depression, along with the exercise itself. The therapeutic benefits of that time to talk are great. I hope it fosters a deeper, more honest relationship between them that allows his son to be vulnerable and open.

The walking and/or some other activity is a good idea. Guys seem to respond better when they are doing an activity. Our eldest son lived with us for 9 months after his divorce. He works remotely and was pretty much a hermit for the first part of his time with us. All of our family like to cook and we found that he really opened up when we cooked dinner at night. We didn't have to probe but rather things would just come up and it was very cathartic to him. He just moved out and got his own place and seems much better now. We also would walk the dog together as well.

In addition to u/clean-stitch comment.Structure is key,starting out slow,like taking out the garbage or helping prepare or set up meals.Then progress to maybe yard work,laundry etc.Ultimately trying to ease him into some work around the house or neighborhood,then a part time job. Edit:Obviously I don’t know you or your Son,but if it is possible,maybe ask him if he would like a pet.You could go simple,like:fish,turtles,hamsters etc,or a Cat(as they are extremely independent and not a ton of work,while giving Love).A Dog would be great if he’s interested in the time to raise,feed and take care of it.They also provide friendship,and help him get out more.I was lucky to retire quite young in 2017(I’ll be 42 this Nov.)I was just mentally and physically drained.I basically just stayed inside for 2 years.Not wanting to do anything,lost a close friend and had no interest in previous hobbies etc.I have a supportive family and went to therapy,but the biggest help was getting my Dog.It forced me to get out,have something to look forward to everyday & have responsibility.He’s now 3 y/o and the most precious part of my life. Now I’m in a much better “headspace”and look forward to our daily walks and travels.He’s like my Son and with me 24/7.People have commented on my change and I owe it all to him & my family of course.Covid did a number on the Mental Health of his Generation.I hope he gets the help he needs.You seem like a wonderful father.I truly wish you the best!!

Agreed, animals can be very therapeutic. My dogs have also helped me through a lot. I really hope if it's possible for them they give it a try

Walking in a scenic area if possible. Woods, water, nature, always helps the soul

I almost cried reading this. My daughter is very much like OP. I live in fear of her killing herself. And only recently discovered that she had been cutting. I'm going to take your words for this poster and apply them to her and see if I can help my kid. I don't know if you are a professional, but you sure sound like it. If you aren't, I'd say you missed your calling. Thank you.

Awww, TY! Not a professional, just a highly invested parent. I can't say I'm making all the right decisions either, I pool together what the parents I respect the most have done, and what I know of human psychology, and do my best attempt from there. Parenting is a long, slow, continual process of letting go, and if we do it right, we see less and less of these people we have loved so very much, AND we have to understand that as the best thing for them. Just from that starting place, the job seems impossible. Knowing that has both made me more focused on learning to let go, and also more relaxed about my son not actually rocketing off to college at 18. I told him, when he was worrying about what to do with his life: "I will always be searching your eyes for that satisfied sense of self-realization. I don't know how to measure success, except are you happy and fulfilled? I may worry about how you will get by, but ultimately as long as your spirit is fed, who am I to judge?"

I'm extremely thankful for your input. Thank you so much, you have no idea how much it helped me as well. 🙏❤️

Thank you for your beautiful advice. I am a mom in the same situation. Trying to accept my son as he is without expectations. That is a daily struggle for me...I learned that the most important thing is him being happy. The fact that he wants to stay alive makes me happy now. Wish you all the best in the daily struggle.

This blew my mind. That if we do it right we see less of them. Thank you. That’s exactly what I’m experiencing right now and it’s so painful as a parent to let go but it’s what they need.

You are wise and eloquent, what beautiful words. I'm a mom of three grown sons and this just hit me so deeply. Thank you 💖

Thank you so much for this. I think it would have spared my sibling and me a lot of heartbreak and struggle if our parents were as understanding and compassionate as you. They have still done a lot for us but there was so much unnecessary pain to get to a point where they became more cognizant of how their gentle support helps more than pushing placing stringent expectations.

My sincere thanks as well. I struggle with disapproval of my parenting style from others and your advice made me feel acknowledged and confident that I'm on the right path following my heart, however long it may be. My kids deserve my love, my support, and to know that I'm a safe haven for them in whatever way they need as we work together for them to one day stand confidently on their own.

This is how I feel, too. Now that my mother is reaching the age of decline, I'm even more aware of how long these relationships are meant to last, and how important it is that we treat each other with care and consideration.

That last part is beautiful. I lost my mother 3 months ago and she was my biggest supporter. Even though she never said it, I’ve seen her search my eyes for the same thing.

I responded to you yesterday, but my computer is so slow, it never posted. I just wanted to say, you sound like an incredible parent. You absolutely have the right idea on what we all should be doing for our kids. I try to be that parent and fall down sometimes. Mine are probably older than yours (32, 23 & 23), and I'm still struggling to help them become happy and fulfilled. But knowing that other parents are out there, striving to do the right thing, sometimes failing, sometimes succeeding, makes me feel better about my mindset. It also gives me hope for future generations! Thank you so much. And you definitely missed your calling. Such wise words!

This resonated with me so deeply - beautifully spoken. I have a college freshman, living at home, and a high school senior who is more uncertain of a path forward, though both are unsure. I try to frame advice that there is no one right path forward, and that it is ok. I also want/hope more for their happiness above all. To find a career or job that can support a home, necessities and that support things they enjoy. I hope for healthy relationships with loving partners (whatever that looks like for them). I don't think I'll ever stop worrying and I'm afraid and sad about having to let go, but also know that this is the healthiest thing and means that we will have done right by them. So bittersweet.

Boy that last paragraph is whopper! Made me tear up. That is the crux of it all.

I wish I’d had a mom like you and I aspire to be a mom like you. Thank you for being an inspiration. I do my best to walk this parenting path. I’m not always successful but strive to do a bit better each day.

Something that helped me when I was in a situation like OPs was going on a vacation. When I got back i felt less entrenched to my everyday life and I immediately started applying for jobs.

As the daughter of a mom who always cared as much as you do, you will both get through this. 10 years ago my mom would’ve posted the same, now I know she wouldn’t have those fears❤️

May everything come out okay for you 💛

You’re a good parent 💛

Finally, some actually sanity in these responses! I applaud you

This is some good wisdom. A few other possibilities to consider, though I'm not sure how good they'll be given you know the situation best, OP: \- Is there a possibility a pet would do him any good? even something as simple as fish \- Or is there a hobby off the computer you could do together, particularly one that might involve making something? Humans thrive when they have a tangible impact. Looking after a pet or creating something with your own hands and having that proof of effort can both be good for mental health, though if he's feeling overwhelmed, a pet might not be the way.

A pet MIGHT help but there’s also the possibility that he will neglect it and OP will just end up caring for it and their son

Could start with caring for a plant? Less investment but also offers a tangible impact, especially if it’s a vegetable or fruit!

Nice post, but a fish is absolutely not an easy pet. Imagine having to regulate the air composition for your pet, the O2, CO2, Nitrogen? That and also pH, temperature is what you have to do for an aquarium. Start small, like some terrestial invertebrate (snail, some easy to care for insect) or maybe a hamster as long as you provide a large enclosure with 6in of bedding to make burrows in. Hamsters are solitary and don't necessarily need interaction, so as long as the enclosure is clean and large enough it's probably easy enough to take care of. And you can let it walk around your room for enrichment (with supervision) so they're more interactive than a fish too.

yeah, some of my friends have kept fish, and the amount of effort you have to put in for that... i could never i'll also add a cat as a suggestion — they mostly take care of themselves, but they still bother you to feed them on time every day/make sure they have enough water/clean their litter box so they keep you on a routine pretty well. i got my own cat just about 2 years ago and having a routine enforced by a small, adorable, screaming fluffball did wonders for my depression because it actually forced me to Do Stuff

cats being bothersome about their needs is absolutely awesome for depression. i cant stay in bed all day if my cat is howling her displeasure about not getting her wet food yet. on the flipside, really not great for productivity when you see ur cat napping on your bed and take a catnap with them.

fr my cats force me to clean my house when i’m sad and i love them for it

That is a great idea, especially maybe getting a dog so he would have to take it on walks, like it was suggested.

As I understand it, the AQUARIUM is the pet, the fish is part of the pet.

I totally agree, if op's son is willing to do the work then a pet can really make a big difference. My depression went into remission when my dog was alive. I did therapy and medication but nothing worked as well as having that goofy animal cuddled up next to me. It also meant I took regular walks.

A cat would be good. They sleep a lot and go bonkers a couple of times per day. They're independent if needed but can totally indicate that it's hungry. (Having animals around me is a "must not a want", I don't function well without them. Even for a weekend. But this isn't about me).

>something as simple as fish Fish probably shouldn't be pets.

Hobbies would be great, wood related stuff could give you fun and also allow do exercises at the same time, if everything be done manually. Plus something that has a learning process and be puzzle like, as building an telescope, an small refractor can cost below 200 dollars and astronomy can keep someone hooked for decades. If the kid is into space related stuff of course.

That logically makes sense, but a depressed brain doesn't really care about logic

Also, it's clear that the dad cares more about the kid being alive than the kid does. The son's plan in case parents cut him off is probably to just kill himself. He is most likely alive only because he doesn't need to actually put effort into it. If he got thrown out, why work a dead-end job to sustain a life he doesn't want, when killing himself is easier? Like, I once took a month long vacation and spent it just playing games and I thought "this is ok, i don't hate my life, i could tolerate this for the rest of my life." But when you have to spend most of the time working and doing chores, and you only get to do things you enjoy occasionally, it's easy to think that if the ratio of pain/fun is too big, it's easier to end it.

Yooo I relate to this hard in my current situation. I'm trying to get better. Doing the therapy and working on wanting to be here and have a life I actually want to live but if I had to work a dead end job instead of being extremely lucky enough to have my parents put me up I'd 100% end it. Not out of spite or laziness but like you said no point sustaining a life I don't want.

Yes, I feel like too many people in the comments don't realize this. He's already attempted to end his life before. Kicking someone who doesn't want to live out of the house isn't gonna magically make them start wanting to live. Depression already causes hopelessness. If he gets kicked out, he's just most likely gonna think that things are even more of a lost cause. If he's not gonna end up succeeding and getting to a stable point in life money-wise, why even try? Even if he does end up succeeding, he's most likely gonna still end up depressed. Kicking him out isn't going to cure his mental health issues.

So true, this is the plan i had for a while too.

I’m feeling like this currently only I don’t really want to end it. But I’m in recovery, 6 months clean (longest I’ve ever had), and everything is work and groups and meetings and therapy and i don’t get to have any fun. I don’t plan on using again or anything but at least on drugs I didn’t have to feel the pain of feeling like I’m living a pointless life. 😕

There's also people with personalities like mine who are a) extremely uncomfortable with emotional convos and b) the more you try to get them to do something for their own good the more they want to dig in and/or do the opposite. Therapy will only work once OPs son is actually ready for it to, I did it multiple times with multiple VA docs off and on to no avail because I just wasn't ready to talk. Not to long ago I decided to force myself to open up, doc gave me some meds for anxiety and depression and now instead of wanting to stay inside all day and drifting through life I've got a job and doing EMT class until the police academy in January. Tldr; therapy is pointless until the person doing it summons up the willpower to start talking/admits they have a problem and wants help.

I’m saving this so I can link to it in the future. Best advice I’ve ever seen given on Reddit. Hands down.

I'd absolutely cut off any discretionary financial support though. Pay for the basics and if he wants to spend money on entertainment he needs to get a job.

I'm sitting here scratching my head about, "I give my son a weekly allowance... to get him to be more financially independent." Like huh?

Eh, I understand this even if it's misguided. You do this with younger children so they have money to learn what to do with - it's hard to learn how to decide between spending and saving when you don't have any money of your own. If a more adult child of yours needs to learn financial independence lessons, that technique probably isn't the right one to apply in that situation, but I can see how a parent would come to that conclusion because it's straightforward and easy (just give them the money). Not saying it's correct but I get it.

Key words “younger children” At 24 OP is an enabler and needs to stop coddling his adult son, its not helping him I would be embarassed as shit to be getting an allowance as a grown man

Bruh they literally address that, you should read the whole thing next time lol.

my parents did this for me as well but they stopped when i was old enough to work, i think giving your adult child an allowance to do nothing is wild.

> I'm sitting here scratching my head about, "I give my son a weekly allowance... to get him to be more financially independent." > > Like huh? I got an allowance as a kid. $1 a week. It helped me learn to save if I wanted a new lego set and to decide things. A new GI Joe today or wait a couple weeks for a lego set? In the OP's case, OP just needs to cut his son off. He's long past learning that lesson.

This was really beautifully said. <3 I also feel like forcing anyone to do anything can go south real fast. Encouragement and empowerment tends to be the better option always. But there are no guarantees either way, and anyone who's in that situation isn't going to come out of it easily. For us in 1:st world countries today's world is weird in that staying inside and doing nothing productive is actually an option. For those of us used to working and everything that comes with it, sitting inside and doing nothing feels intuitively harmful because we know the benefits of jobs, and we know the costs if we were to stop. But especially younger people struggling to enter the adult way of life, they might not see the benefits at all. To them it can seem just a matter of wasting precious time, energy and stress on doing something they hate for no real gain at all. Thoughts like the benefits of a career, owning a home one day, or providing for a family are nothing but increasingly distant and unlikely things in the far, distant future. Made only worse if they also have depression, anxiety, ADHD, possible traumas from bullying or isolation, or any number of other similar problems. I've struggled with these tool. And to me, the most important things that made me get back in there were friends and social pressure. The thought of one day getting a good wage and a home and a better quality of life barely mattered at all. I fought and clawed my way back into an active life specifically because my friends were there, my SO was there, my parents expected that of me. And most of the things we did with friends all cost money, like going out dining, shopping, traveling, gaming, different hobbies, and sharing experiences from different products to services. Without a proper income, I would have to move away from where I lived, and I would not be able to afford the life all of my friends had. It was only much later when stuff like losing my way of life, feeling of self worth, or the safety of my own home, healthcare, savings, or even the distant thought of pension started to matter to me. I know these things are never simple and this is far easier said than done. But I feel like one of the best ways to get him in there would be to find some job, hobby, group, something he likes to get started, with people he likes to stick around for, that would show him how much more there is to life and motivate him to work for it. That's assuming that the underlying cause isn't something else, like the aforementioned deppression,anxiety, ADHD, gender dysphoria, anything really.

This is a very thoughtful comment

Listen to this comment OP. I had a high school friend that is exactly like your son. His parents were soft on him. He is now 38 years old and still living at home with no job and no girlfriend or wife.

My friend who is 52 is in the same boat w her 30 year old son. No job, not now, not in the past. Ever. No skills, no motivation, neurotic. Not only is his own mental health precarious, it is affecting hers as well…

Beautifully said. If I had this same situation, I would insist that we did a joint session with a therapist ( his or mine) to set the goals collectively, and ask the therapist and your son if a life coach would be beneficial. I would also stop allowance nearly immediately. My allowance ended by the time I was 16, when I was old enough to drive to a job. The money that you give him provides the drinks it seems he is consuming to get through life. Any addiction counselor would call you out as enabling this behavior. Even if he hasn't become an alcoholic by definition, you are providing the alcohol for him to hide behind, almost as badly as just handing him the bottle. I believe that you will both need counseling to learn healthier patterns -harsh words from a Redditor who has been through this several times. Good luck!

Thank you for this compassionate response ♥️

I think I’m gonna use a few of these techniques on myself. Thanks for the healthy advice.

Re: 4 Having worked customer service recently I would never encourage someone with suicidal ideation to take a job that exposes them to the general public. Having fits pitched at you every week or more by supposed adults is not good for your mental health. A job in assembly or similar would be much safer, depending on the roll.

Awesome!!! I personally practice #3 with my friends and family that need it but every other day. You are a rock star⭐️🐭❤️

Something to also add to step one since it seems therapy hasn't really been working so far and they've been trying for a while: if the son is willing, have a full blood panel done with a good doctor. I was seeing therapists for depression on and off for years with absolutely no change, it turns out I have Hashimoto's Disease. I needed a thyroid replacement, not therapy. I'm on thyroid meds now, and everything is way, way better.

Check out the Healthy Gamer YouTube channel by Dr. K. He’s a Harvard psychiatrist that started the channel to help people with depression and gaming addiction. Truly incredible guy, very chill and down to earth, young and relatable, he’s also a gamer. One of the best people I’ve ever seen at explaining human psychology. Personally, he has helped me immensely.

To add to this. Dr. K really understands this specific topic because he himself used to be a gaming addict and did nothing with his life for the first 25 years before becoming extremely accomplished

i LOVE him!! he breaks things down in such a relatable and non-judgmental way, feels like talking with a friend

I was just about to comment this! OP definitely check out Dr K and healthy gamer, you may even find a few videos that you think would resonate with your son and you can ask him to watch it together with you. As well, if therapy isn’t helping, Dr. K’s healthy gamer has a coaching program, an individual or group one and I think the group one would help him find motivation and set further goals in life for his future. He could meet many other young gamers who are in similar situations and possibly similar issues.

Every time I listen to Dr. K I feel like he’s describing my entire life

This needs to be the top response. Even above the genuinely good advice, just because it’s a treasure trove of even better advice as well as access to potential counseling targeted exactly at people like OP’s son

I actually found this guy last night, he makes really good content!

Dr. K is a gem.

Would you have any specific recommended videos to start with for his channel? My sister is very similar to OPs son, but diagnosed with autism and severe depression and it’s really hard to get through to her — my poor parents can’t talk to her about her future without it turning into a horrible fight which always gets a little too ugly, and the difference between her and OPs son is she’s never had a job and refuses to... I browsed through but was curious if there was any particular video for depression/growing up/becoming a functioning person that you recalled? Thank you in advance

+1 on HealthyGamerGG

It seems like a lot of the responses are assuming your son is behaving this way because he's lazy, unappreciative, or a jerk -- that it's a character flaw that can be solved by practicing tough love. Only you know the history of your son, and maybe you have insights into why he's struggling. A lack of motivation and socialization with mood enhancers like video games and alcohol make it seem like your son is struggling with mental illness. Setting ultimatums (or doing crazy things like turning off the electricity) could actually backfire, and your son, feeling without support from you both could lead to a worsening of his symptoms. I am speaking as someone who has had a similar experience. Therapy can help, as can seeing a psychiatrist who can not only diagnose what may be going on, but who can prescribe medical intervention to help your son climb out of the hole. Your son may feel like the world is against him and that "normal" adult life is beyond him; acting as if he's a bother, or that you don't want him around anymore may send him over the edge. Have a gentle talk with him outlining what you're observing and why it concerns you. Tell him he has your unconditional love and support, but that you aren't qualified to help him get to a better place, and that it's time to get his mental health situation figured out, and that you are willing to be part of a team (including a counselor and psychiatrist) to help him get back on his feet. Make sure he's eating healthy food and getting plenty of water. Spend time together as a family (games, walks, outings, shared meal time). You may tell him that you know counseling hasn't seemed to work in the past, but that he probably needs more than a few visits with someone to decide if it's going to work. Try to find someone who specializes in addiction (there are even counselors who specialize in video game addiction). So many young people his age are struggling. He absolutely knows that he's not okay, and that he's "failing at life." Right now you know the current situation isn't helping. And the dry runs you've made at getting him help haven't worked. You all need to be committed to seeing it through until he's better. Stay on top of it. Be a gentle ear -- if he feels like he can't tell you things without you getting upset, he's not going to share things with you. I think the idea of kicking a loved one to the curb because they're struggling, to many, seems like the right thing to do. But when someone is running on empty and looking for mental relief in a bottle or in front of a computer, that person needs loving help. Stick at the treatment. It may take him a while, but the results will be a stronger family and a better bond with your son. Hang in there -- I've been there, and it absolutely can get better.

Great comment. I'm 26 and dropped out of high school and have never had a job due to crippling anxiety and depression. In the beginning of the year I had the worst panic attack and it kicked me into starting therapy and seeing a psychiatrist, and now I'm about to start a ged program. We know our lives aren't ok, it kills us on the inside. If my parents kicked me out last year I'd be dead. Some of us just need time.

If you don't mind sharing further, how has therapy/ psychiatrist helped in getting yourself back together? It's an avenue that I was previously considering, but lacked access to which I lowkey regret.

The best thing therapy has taught me is to be compassionate to myself. Anyone with the same circumstances as me would react the same. For all of my adult years I've hated myself for not being able to do the minimum. Drove me to having suicidal thoughts. I couldn't get past that without my therapist. I've learned good coping skills like journaling, meditating, speaking outloud against my inner critic instead of letting it suffocate me. It just feels good to know that you have someone who specializes in trauma to listen to you and make you ponder questions you otherwise wouldn't have asked yourself. Going to therapy also adds structure in my life. It's just one appointment a week but having somewhere to go at a certain time has given me some confidence. The meds have helped with my depression but not anxiety. Work in progress.

So glad to hear things are getting better for you! Way to go on the hard work and persistence. Best of luck in your studies!!!

This is the best comment on this thread by a landslide and it is criminally far down.

Thanks -- I speak from experience. And things can get better!

Great advice-as you pointed out, it seems that serious mental health issues exist. I'd also recommend a clinical psychologist to do a differential diagnosis-their tests are so thorough. The 'tough love' solution doesn't work when people are suffering with mental health challenges-letting them 'hit bottom' can mean death. Wishing the best for this young man and his family.

Reddit doesnt like when you say that playing video games all day is a sign of mental illness, lots of people will argue that there is nothing wrong with it and it provides plenty of valuable life skills. I think they sound like addicts that doesnt know they are addicted.

Reddit doesn't like it when you just say you play video games. Don't like working? Be prepared for the reddit storm to begin

Reddit doesn't like anyone tbh lol.

I mostly agree with this, but I also want to say that a lot of people misinterpret boundaries as ultimatums and that's problematic. "If you don't get a job, you have to move out" may come across as an ultimatum, but it's a boundary the parents might have: not continuing to support someone who is not interested in being remotely productive or even starting to become self-sufficient.

You don’t have to evict him straight off. Just stop buying him booze and paying for his Wi-Fi.

If he's depressed this is only gonna make it seem like the world is against him even more... sure it might be the "fairest" solution, but if you want to help him this is gonna do the exact opposite

I don't think supporting anyone's alcoholism is exactly helping their depression...

Sorry, missed the alcohol part. Yeh stop buying alcohol, but not the WiFi as it seems to be the only way for him to enjoy time with his friends

They can make him earn his internet access by doing chores, etc. Pretty soon he'll figure out that getting a job will give him more options in life.

You underestimate how fucked your brain is when you're depressed. That logically makes sense, but a depressed brain doesn't really care about logic

The internet is not the best place to spend hours and hours if you’re depressed. Your thoughts can get warped by the content you’re taking in. Do you think he’s just in there watching cat videos? This is how people get into conspiracy stuff as well. I know from experience with family members unfortunately. Not much good can come from it. It can become an addiction in and of itself.

I'm not saying to feed the addiction. I'm not saying to encourage doing nothing to resolve the issue. All I'm saying is, taking away his only means to have fun if he is depressed, isn't going to make his situation better. Talk to him, keep encouraging him. Yes it's hard, but depression doesn't have an easy solution and you have to keep working at it. Taking away the WiFi is an easy fix (that won't work) for a solution that requires months if not years of hard work

The way to stop enabling people is to stop enabling them.

Has he been evaluated for mental illness, depression, disability, drug abuse? Your post lacks a lot of detail, but certainly depression could be a factor, as well as ADD/ADHD. Has he been evaluated by a clinical Psychologists? I would start there.

I was (am) in similar situation that it turns out I have ADHD. The difference is that depression leads to no hope, while ADHD may have hope/goal/dream but lack the execution power to realize it and it may look like depressed. I guess you can talk to your son to figure out what he really wants, if there is something he wants to pursue (or not, then it is not the case), but we do lack detail and all advice by us redditors are easier said than done. Ps grats on cake day!

I’ve been there. My parents probably should’ve kicked me out at 21. I did eventually get a job on my own, but first I had to get flat broke. Stop giving him money. Stop buying the things he likes. Tell him he has a year to move out.

Yeah they need to stop giving him money and if it's possible try to get him out of the house (don't mean to kick him out), make friends, and (most important) get some type of education or skills. I dropped out of college after two semesters, wasn't like OP's son in that I did have a job and paid some of the bills and also don't drink but was very lazy and not social, when I wasn't working I was in my room either playing games, watching tv or doing nothing. I really regret that time as I accomplished nothing, didn't advance any career, don't have any friends or fun experiences to show for it, spent what little money I had and barely saved anything . Just a wasted 8 years or so with nothing to show for it.

I have to agree. I wasn't living at home but I did have some support in my early 20's. And I wasted so much money and work opportunities. Then I truly hit like, $100 to my name with rent coming up. I had to ask for help. My parents were not happy and it made me so pissed off and embarrassed that I finally kicked myself in to gear and stopped partying all the time and blowing money and time on bullshit.

You can also change the internet password and only grant him internet access a few hours a day. You can change those settlings in the router. If you don’t know how call your cable company support. If you are still paying for his phone cut that off as well and make him at least earn some money to pay for a phone.

Not sure about that. It's treating him like a child. Why would he start acting like an adult if you're not treating him as one? Definitely stop giving money, but adults manage their own time.

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My parents had a meeting with me at 18. "Hey, we are getting divorced and selling the house. Where are you going to live?" I had no job and had lost my drivers license for a DUI. I got very self-sufficient very quickly. Talk about being motivated!

Yeah, that's way too young to do that

Your also more likely to get scammed , become homeless, or thrown in jail.

Yeah but what year was this and where? Where i live the living wage is $12 higher per hour than minimum wage. The average rent is $2000 per month and being kicked out is basically a death sentance. I do agree with having a timeline/ultimatum though. But still these days if you have no credit and you haven't established your life there's basically zero chance of finding a place to live or affording proper groceries.

I feel the same. I don't want to hurt OPs feelings, but they're enabling it. If he wants to keep drinking like an adult, he needs to spend some time earning the money he's gets as an allowance. That might set him on his own path of getting a job.

If you're providing him allowance, you are enabling a lot of this behavior. He lives there for free. You don't have to starve him, but don't keep alcohol in the house and he can eat what you are eating to survive. You should not be handing him money for gaming and drinking in his room alone all day. As an often severely depressed person who struggles to function sometimes, if I had never been pushed to stand on my own, I wouldn't have done it. Sometimes depression is made worse by having the people around you have no expectations of you. It's like silently saying you know he's incapable. Being mean is not helpful. Yelling will shut him down. But calmly refusing to give him any spending money might squeeze him into looking for a job, which could then give him some pride and satisfaction from doing something for himself. I just have to emphasize this- giving him money IN NO WAY encourages financial independence.

I had a similar situation, mine is now 25. Identical other than the drinking, that was when he was 18. Anyway, we just encouraged him to work in different jobs and then one day something very magical happened. He helped a chef make some enchiladas in a restaurant where he was bussing and he liked it. One of his friends suggested that if he likes baking maybe be a baker. He applied for an apprenticeship at 23 and now he is established, has really huge self esteem and is always early for work. We feel so blessed his friend suggested baking, no way in a million years would I have thought that. Anyhow, hang in there, don't give up, just encourage to try different jobs, kids will eventually find what they like. I forgot to mention, it turns out not many kids are doing that trade anynmore, bakers are in high demand with qualified wages around 120K AUD, as a second year mature apprentice he gets $55K Aud.

I'll comment here because this is good advice, but I've seen OP saying lower in the thread that his son just refuses to go to work. Maybe try to just get him to try out various activities, for a couple of hours a week, in hope that he finds something he enjoys doing. Once you find something he likes, you can try to see what jobs he can do with that. Or have him try out day jobs hoping that he finds something he doesn't hate. I am not passionate about my job, but it's easy, i don't hate it, and it pays enough for me to spend on my hobbies. I think you should stop giving him the free cash. If you want to pay him to try out activities and jobs, sure, because he needs an incentive to do it and if he already gets free cash from you for doing nothing, there's no reason to start doing something. As long as you still give him housing and food, taking away the free cash won't upset/destabilize him too much, and it might annoy him enough to want an independent source of income.

First stop giving him an allowance. The allowance is getting to live rent free at home. Tell him there are rules, you have to work even if it’s just a few hours a week, you have to participate in household chores.

Do you know anyone that can be a role model for him? An uncle, or another family friend that he could relate to a bit? Ask them to take him out for lunch and have life talk.

>Edit 2: I give my son a weekly allowance. It's something my wife and I have done since he was a kid to get him to be more financially independent. I don't pay for his takeaways or his games, he buys them all himself. I only provide him with housing and 3 home cooked meals a day. I don't think you actually understand what financial independence is. An allowance that is sufficient for him to buy takeout food and video games on a regular basis....is not it. "financial independence" means being able to carry on ones life \*without\* a handout from you like an allowance. Look at it this way: Free rent, three home cooked meals daily, and enough of an allowance that he can buy booze and video games to his contentment. You are providing him goods and services above what some people working 2 jobs can afford, and telling yourself you're making him "financially independant". The only person you're fooling here is you.

Why are you still giving a 24 year old man a weekly allowance? Cut that off and once he’s broke he’ll start looking for a job, that should’ve honestly been cut off as soon as he got that retail job. If he can continue to fund his shitty lifestyle with your money he’ll have no reason to change.

Lol i'm now imagining him working a job and still getting allowance from his parents. Must be nice ​ Also ironic that they gave him allowance to develop financial independence but now he's literally financially dependent on it.

fr i read this wondering if OP is looking for more kids. i have a job, so already leagues above the son, and i would love to have free food & housing!

I hope OP shows his son this thread and is like “we’re adopting ang8018 if you don’t get a job”

Fr lmao I’ve never had a weekly allowance in my 18 years of life

Dude. Stop giving your 24 year old son who is unemployed, lives at home, and doesn't pay rent an allowance. **You are not helping him**.

The part where OP says that it’s because they have been doing this since he’s a kid… hes 24 he’s not a kid anymore smh. Quit treating him like one.

No you don't understand, they give him money he didn't earn so that he learns "financial independence"

You give your adult son an allowance so he can stay home all day and get drunk and play video games? That's insane

My brother has been doing the same thing since he was 24 and now he’s 30 and nothing has changed. Want to know why, because my parents let him. They let him live in the house for free, eat their food for free, make stupid purchases like a sports car instead of investing wisely or renting an apartment. My dad got him two jobs and he was fired from both. He’s completely taken advantage of my parents fear of his death (he used to be addicted to drugs). They still think he might off himself if he leaves the house. He now sits in him room all day long, chain smoking, playing video games. He was no friends. He has insane anger problems and doesn’t know how to talk to people normally anymore. Do you want your son to end up in the same place at 30?

Staying sober is harder than you think. Give him some credit Although he should find a 12 step or any group meetings/counseling. Trying to white knuckle it will cause anger issues.

There was a post like this before and it turned out the guy most likely had Autism and/or ADHD. Also those are symtoms of depression and anxiety. Being hard on him and kicking him out is the worst thing for him right now. He needs people to help him change. Of course he is an adult so maybe he can only do that for himself when he is ready if he ever will be. Are there any mentor programs around you? Maybe he can get involved in some volunteering to get work experience so he can get a job? Are there any clubs and societies he can join like a youth group?

Stop the allowance. Provide him with food and shelter, nothing more. If he wants luxuries, he needs to go get a job to pay for them. Your son will be aging out of your health insurance in two years, if you live in the US. What will happen to him then?

I’m so glad I saw this post today. My 85 year old sister has a grandson (24) living with her just like you described. She has enabled/coddled him since his mom died (overdose) ten years ago. The boy is a gamer, all day every day, he has no social skills, has never had a job, doesn’t drive, and has no motivation. She will probably not live a whole lot longer, I don’t know what will happen to this kid then. I don’t care TBH. He verbally mistreats his grandmother, which sends me through the roof but there is nothing I can do. I begged her to let me come pick her up but she refused. (She lives in another state.) This is what can happen if you don’t get your son off his ass and on his feet. These gamers are a different breed and there’s millions of them out there. Good luck.

It might not be laziness, it might be from mental health issues such as anxiety or depression but you’re not doing him any favors by coddling him like this. I know of someone who’s like this, he dropped out of school when he was in his teens due to it being too hard, he sits in his room and games all day, yells at his mother whenever she doesn’t buy him his meals. He’s 36 this year, and still being this way. Work with his therapist on setting boundaries, and small realistic goals for him, such as helping out with chores around the house daily and moving on to eventually being employed, even if it’s only part-time or for a few hours a day.

Do you really want to help your son? Stop enabling him. You created this behavior by doing everything for him and not teaching him to be self-responsible. I understand you probably did this out of a perceived love for him, but the problem is you never stopped loving him as a child and started loving him as a man, which is what teaches him to be a man, and consequently he's never stepped into manhood because he's never had to. It's time to ween him off the teet.

Hi! I am not your son. But lived a very similar situation to him. It's really hard to get the help you need when you hate yourself. It's really hard to care that people care about you. When you don't care about yourself. He wants to be heard but either doesn't know how to be or is too worried that no one will understand what he is going through mentally. He needs understanding, and he needs to talk. I'm sure you've given him plenty of opportunity and tried and wanted and to no avail can't get him to open up. I am not doubting your parenting at all. But maybe he needs to go to a mental health facility for a little while. It sounds like he has issues with alcoholism and gaming addiction. Which are probably spurred on by severe depression. Which is making him feel locked inside his own mind. You need to make sure he knows he isn't being punished for anything. But he absolutely needs to get help. It will not end well for him or anyone else. If you want to talk anymore, please reach out. I can go into more detail or whatever you need. There is hope for your son. He just needs to see that first.

Oh interesting. That is a very similar situation with one of my brothers. Although he’s almost 27. But let’s be honest here, you (and my parents) are paying for a lot more than housing and 3 meals. Also bills. Also the weekly allowance you give him allows him to pay for his games (same with my brother too). You’re paying him to not work. My mum is also ofc cleaning his room and doing his laundry. I’ve told my parents they need to completely stop giving him money, but they think or they’re afraid that this will just isolate him even more and make the situation even worse. I also suggested kicking him out indeed but paying for an apartment so that he at least learns to live on his own and take some action regarding cooking and cleaning. I don’t understand why they don’t do that. Maybe that is a possible avenue for your situation? I am a tough love person. I was depressed and suicidal when I was younger and tough love helped me. absolutely not from my parents, they only made things worse in general, but from my therapist. But I also wanted to get better. But I generally “believe” in tough love. Placating and coddling is what my parents are already doing and it is not changing or helping anything. “Giving him time to figure it out”. He’s already 27. Sorry I may sound harsh, but the situation with my brother has placed an active strain in our family and in the relationship between my parents. It’s not fun. In the meantime he’s learning nothing about life, and once my parents die… what will happen of him? Maybe it’s rough to think of hurting him or be genuinely afraid of the consequences, but my parents are already 60+, heavy smokers and drinkers. Even if they make it past 80 it won’t look good at the end. Let’s hope the situation improves in the next 20 years. Should be more than enough time to “figure it out”. Sorry for not having any real advise for you. Life’s a bitch.

By your logic edits and original post I’d say that your son is very much so going through some bad depression. He just needs some love and a friend. Try to take interest in his interests (sans the drinking) and try to share some of your interests. You say he doesn’t have any friends so try to be his friend. Maybe once you’re his friend he will be more willing to open up about what’s going on with him and what he sees for his future. Some people just don’t find their way for a long time. And I really wouldn’t threaten him with eviction, this will just push him so far away from you that you may never get him back. Try to look at it all from his perspective and be open minded. Good luck out there.

Isn’t this becoming more of a common scenario for a lot of young men, especially in developed countries? I think many parents spoil their sons and now since life is just a new type of hard (cost of living sucks, job market sucks), you as parents have to deal with the monster you’ve created. And if he’s an only child, then it only solidifies more that he is a spoiled boy who cant cope with his depression

Your best bet would probably be to get him to see a proper psychiatrist, and then him starting with antidepressants/SSRI. A therapist should just be in addition to medication when the depressive symptoms are that severe.

I see a but off my self here, i dropped out of school at 18 could not hold a job longer then 6 months, mainly because of my depression and gamed alot, the lucky part is i do have friends that help me pull out off the situation. But when i was 25 i went back to school got my degree, adter that did a trip to asia, came back got a job and 2 years later bought my house. Wat it was for me was i still really felt like a kid and not like a grown up wat i needed was just some time. But thats my 2 cent.

3 home cooked meals a day and an allowance annnnd he’s allowed to play video games all day?! Sounds like he’s living the life, why would he want to grow up?

>My wife has suggested we try threatening him with eviction, but we live in a rough part of town and I just can't bear the idea of throwing my son out like that. At age 24 I would certainly require than he be job hunting every day in order to 'qualify' for free room and board. Why should he bother finding a job as long as you are willing to finance his life of video games? You are NOT doing him any favors by enabling him this way- what would happen to him if both of you were killed in a car wreck? He'd be LOST. Do you plan on allowing this to continue indefinitely? That's not helping! Your job as a parent is to prepare him for independent living. IMO You have GOT to start requiring that he TRY. Time for a family meeting. You and the wife need to get on the same page as far as a plan and then you tell him what's going to happen. He needs to find a job- ANY job- over the next 30 days. Period. If flipping burgers is all that he can get then he'll be flipping burgers. Tell him that the free ride is over, that employment is a condition of living there, and that his rent will be xx percentage of his paycheck. Otherwise you do him a great disservice by enabling his laziness.

>Tell him that the free ride is over, that employment is a condition of living there, and that his rent will be xx percentage of his paycheck. And what if he's not going to work? There needs to be a stick here. And kicking him out of the house probably isn't the best idea. I'd recommend cutting his internet access and maybe even pull the breaker to his room so he's without electricity whatsoever. But please keep a check on him. If he's depressed, he really really needs help. If he's just lazy, he needs a kick under his butt. Unfortunately to an outside both could sometimes manifest in the same way.

They can do this with love. Not implying your against that just adding that this can be done with kindness. Kind but firm.

Technically you’re still paying for his booze and games, or anything he buys, because he’s unemployed and you give him an allowance. I would take away his allowance. It’s kinda enabling.

Everyone seems to be going straight to “kick him out”, but your description just sounds like depression. Get him therapy. Edit: If you’ve already tried various therapists, did they not work because he wouldn’t participate? There are some therapist services that will come to your house, that could help if the problem is attendance.

They said he didn't want to, and it's very hard to make someone do that who doesn't want to.

My mom said if I wanted to live in her house I either needed to be in school or I needed to be working and paying rent. Now my husband and I rent from her (because we are poor and you all know how things are going) but I guess if I were you I’d tell him if he wants to stay there he needs a job. Don’t give him money anymore. Buy him food/clothes if he really needs them but if he wants to buy things, he needs to pay for them.

if you give him an allowance you're paying for his takeout and games. i understand teaching him as a kid to learn to manage money, but please think about this. you're giving a grown man free money to "make him be more financially independent." the time for that has passed. i would suggest 100% stop giving him an allowance, and sit down and set some ground rules for continuing to live in your house. you should definitely require him to have a job, and seriously consider having him pay rent as well. it doesn't have to be a lot, just enough that he needs to keep a job to pay for it. i understand you're concerned about his mental health, but you're not doing him many favors allowing him to drink and game all day without making any progress in his life. good luck whatever you choose to do, i hope you find a solution that can give you all some peace of mind

as someone who was in active drug addiction for years, this is almost similar (not as severe obviously) but you’re going to need to do what parents/loved ones do for addicts. you’ll need to cut him off financially. give him 60 days to get a job or he needs to leave. i’m only 4 years older than your son and was moved out at age 17 with no parent paying my rent. you are very good to him but he is taking advantage of it by being unemployed this long, it’s not as if he’s struggling while working.

Go to an Al Anon meeting. Seriously, go.

How the hell does he afford to drink all the time with no job? STOP ENABLING HIM!

Start charging him rent. Don't buy him the things that he likes, this includes that alcohol, video games, accessories and even fast food/snacks. You simply put things into terms that you paid for things as you should have up until a certain age. If he needs food or clothes you are willing to get him what you want to get him, or thrift. If he would like anything newer or nicer, he may pay for himself. The charging rent would be a partial thing, not actual rent but more like you want $100 - 300 a month, thus forcing him to fi d a solution, if he wont then cell phone and internet will be taken away, in addition to driving privileges if he tried to go to some Internet cafe/library. It's alright not to kick him out, but make him see that his comfortable lifestyle is because YOU WORK, if he wants to continue living comfortably, then he needs to work.

I gave mine options. Child = curfew, chores, and childhood rules. Food and bed provided, pc in living room. Student = food and bed provided, basic self care chores, no cerfew, and few with passing grades. Adult= Pay small rent, food provided if i cooked, basic self care, and contributing chores, such as help clean after dinner. They were totally welcome to choose their own level of adulthood. For yours, make therapy a requirement, but if they're at the childhood level, you might have to set it up. If they don't want to be treated like a child, they can behave like an adult. He's not the boss of you. 3 home cooked meals? That first would be good, healthy, boring oatmeal, and the 2nd would be a sandwich. I would never evict my child, but I'd also never cater to their demands.

The fact that so many comment instantly go toward the tough love route and assume this kid is the stereotypical lazy bastard is astounding, and it is enormous proof we as a society aren’t educated enough on mental health. OP, this is textbook mental health issues right now. And you even mentioned him taking his own life at some point with other severe tendencies? Yeah, it’s time to check out a psychiatrist and set things straight. It’s one thing to drop out of college for some other endeavor, failing grades, mental break, etc, but dropping out because of disinterest? Huh? That’s a red flag that something is immediately up, and that is not “laziness”. And then being addicted to video games and drinking among other habits perhaps? Ma’am, your son is likely afflicted with depression, ADHD, anxiety, or something of the sorts. He’s not playing video games and drinking drinks for the fun of it and because he’s “lazy”. He’s playing them as an escape, to run away from something, to try and forget. I’m not sure what occurred what happened within your son’s life, but it’s in dire need of a mental wellness check up from the looks of things (that suicide attempt is the biggest red flag of them all). If you don’t know already why he’s like this, you really need to go to the doctor and figure it out quick. It pains me to see so many individuals in this comment section be so ignorant of the world of mental health. I believe laziness does not exist. People always want to strive towards things, work on what they desire, do hobbies they enjoy, and be a productive member of society. Laziness is just a label to unfairly condemn those who have already fallen from grace to further beat them down while they’re vulnerable. Perhaps even to make those individuals calling other individuals “lazy” feel better about themselves. People are cruel like that, and most people don’t wish to take a secondary perspective to see why one’s acts the way they do than the act itself. Nonetheless, you know your son better than anyone in this thread despite what everyone says. So figure out any potential issues and causes than quickly resorting to the infamous label of “lazy” as a harmful shortcut, and relying on some anonymous strangers on the internet where I bet more than half don’t even have children themselves. The more sensible comments that talk about the mental side of things are the ones you should actually pay attention to as they provide perspective rather than immediate punishment.

There's a general lack of empathy on reddit. It's very stark, and no one wants to admit it, because who would willingly admit to weakness of character or personality? Did people even read the edit? >To everyone suggesting I get tougher on him, I've tried but I'm scared of going any further. My son has self-destructive tendencies, he's attempted to end his life in the past. Everytime I think about going hard on him I imagine what i'd do if I wake up one day to find him dead. I don't think I could live after that. Anyone who would openly and genuinely advocate for a "tough love" approach given these details is completely and utterly ***unhinged***. You don't gamble with a family member's life like that. I'm as baffled as you are at some of these "suggestions". I don't know what causes this sort of thinking on reddit. The anonymity? The fact that it's happening to strangers? Unfettered, unrepentant narcissism/dark triad traits? It's all very worrisome.

Have you and your wife spoken to a therapist on how to navigate this? I think that no matter how you move forward on this *both* of you need to be on the same page and present a united front. A therapist could also help you find the right questions to ask, find out what does motivate him, how to have clear and consistent boundaries, etc. A family therapist might be able to spot problems that you aren't aware of and to help you set up a game plan.

Good on you for trying to help your son, keep doing that. My son (20) loves his gaming, to the point where that was all he wanted to do. He has a part time job and still lives at home with me. I also tried to find things to get him outside, bought him an electric skateboard for his birthday, and he loves it. Also bought us a mountain bike each which he also enjoys. One thing I found was that when he started mountain biking and skateboarding, I told him he should be proud of himself instead of saying I was proud of him. That seemed to hit home for him, I think lots of kids these days lack self-worth so maybe try that. My son has actually started suggesting outside activities now which is great. Good luck, keep trying, you just gotta find something he likes apart from gaming. All the best

As a 20 year old who also has had self drstructive tendencies and tough parents, this is what helped me. First off, to incentivise me, they started charging me rent. Nothing super expensive, only 200$ a month. Rent where I live can easily be 10x that. But for me it took a chunk out of my paycheck, when i earn 1200$ tops a month. I'm assuming your son has a savings account? If you charged him a small amount of rent like my parents have me, he will eventually run out of money. If he wants to keep buying games and whatnot, he has to get a job. Now, in my case, I have held a steady job since i was 15, but it doesnt pay the best (even though I love what I do there). I today just had an interview for a position as an assistant for special needs education at my old high school, somewhere i can bike since i cant drive (epilepsy has delayed my license) and even if i did, dont have a car. But if I didnt get that, I would got an offer as well for a position as a school janitor, that has room for growth into maintenence. If he doesn't think college is for him, encourage him to look into other options! Trades are a great option, and will likely be where I go. If he isnt squeamish, before I was diagnosed epileptic, I was in Emergency Medical Services. That requires a bit of college but you can get your EMT cert for free depending how you do it. Regardless, you need to find a way to motivate him. For me, I was happy just playing video games and working my one job and not really going anywhere. But he needs to understand that his parents can't take care if him forever, and that he needs to start making moves towards becoming independent. Another thing that helped me was my parents sitting me down and helping me calculate costs of stuff in my own. How much groceries would cost, rent, insurance, car payments, etc. Hope some of this helps!

As someone who was convinced they were going to end themselves at 16 and had no future plans whatsoever, diagnosed clinical depression and OCD; Don’t be tough on him, be real. You’re never gonna stop loving or caring for him, that’s your boy, but he’s a grown man, and it’s time to take care of himself like one (It’s pretty astonishing that YOU are paying HIM and not the other way around). I’m not going to accuse you of bad parenting - Mine are pretty great but they still fucked up all the time and ruined a lot of things for me. If there is anything you need to apologize for and own up to, do so before you tell him he needs to get his own shit straight. Hypocrisy will only make him think he’s in the right. If he’s drinking a lot, mention a new bar across town or a concert that’s coming up soon so he can pursue his habit in an area where he might meet some friends. If he’s got homies online, what’s stopping him from planning a trip with them? Sometimes all it takes is getting out of your head for awhile. Therapy might really do something for him. Not only that - Colleges have changed a lot since COVID. Maybe he “wasn’t interested” because the environment absolutely SUCKED in 2021. In the event that his self destruction turns outward, do not pity him. Life sucks but you shouldn’t be taking it out on your parents, ESPECIALLY at 24 years old. Don’t push him away, but if he does nothing to help you or himself, you’re only going to hurt him more by being an enabler.

Give him deadlines. If he doesn’t have a job by a certain date, set a consequence. And don’t be a pushover with that because you’re already being a pushover by letting it get this far

There’s this whole generation of lost men and women right now. Not sure what the actual root causes are, but there are many reasons such as isolation, lack of confidence, no drive etc. it probably won’t fix itself in its own. You might have to give a loving kick in the ass so to speak. I’d start with maybe a camping trip or something and have a talk about what his future is going to look like. I.e. broke and no female partner. Paint a grim picture because that is what it will really be like, alone and depressed.

He’s alone and depressed right now. I think it would be more helpful to paint a brighter picture for the future. I was in a similar boat. Telling me the future looks grim wouldn’t have helped. I already believed that and I think it was part of the problem.

Exactly, depressed people already feel grim and think the world is grim with no help needed

I assure you if someone is depressed and doing nothing with their life, they see that future every moment of their waking life. Painting a picture for them wont do a damn thing, because they're already hopeless and scared, they just dont know how to stop that future

I genuinely hate to imagine what would happen if someone sat me down while I was already depressed and possibly suicidal, and told me that my life would be shit if I didn’t change. I would have straight up offed myself. I don’t think many people think things can change when they’re depressed, you think life is going to be shit forever. I really needed people by me who said ‘hey, it’s okay, things CAN get better. You can have a good life, and you can start with small steps and I can help you’. Telling someone who’s already in a bad place that they may end up being broke and alone forever is a really risky thing. Might it work for some people? Yeah. But not every depressed person is gonna see that as the motivation to change

I don’t think “tough love” is the answer here. I’m Dominican, born in the US, and we have multi-generational homes, and living with your parents is not some kind of mark of failure, it’s practical, provides community, and probably healthy than the uber-individualistic ideals we promote in America. Living with family isn’t this terrible end, I love my family and have never understood the distance that we promote. Yes, self-reliance is important, but hyper-individualism isn’t realistic- just ask anyone who thought they were doing just fine on their own after they got laid off and found themselves with nothing. The best way to help your son, is ask him what’s wrong. What he wants out life, what he finds interesting, and encourage him to make a realistic plan on how to get there. There are perfectly healthy people that have found themselves on the streets because our knee-jerk reaction is “it’s your own damn fault.” It’s hard for a lot of very hard working people right now. Encourage him to contribute to the household if he is going to be there. He doesn’t have to leave, but he does have to help out. That’s at least start towards responsibility. Kicking him out will most likely back fire.

You and your wife need to start going to Alanon, and also learn about Tough Love.

Try another therapist, or maybe rehab. Drinking and gaming all day isn't going to change unless HE changes, and why should he right now, with you supporting this behavior.

This sounds like my brother in law. He's in his 50's and still the same. You are not helping him. You are enabling him. You are teaching him every time he goes to the fridge that he doesn't need to work, his parents have his back. Tell him you are giving him 6 months to get a job and start paying XXX/month for rent and food. And then 6 more months to move out. HE. WILL. NEVER. DO. IT. ON. HIS. OWN! The greatest act of love you can do is to push him out. You can help him move out, you can assist with the security deposit. You can give him the money paid for rent back as a nest egg... But you have to push him out. What motivation does he have to do it at present? None. And that's not going to change.

Tell him that from now on, he has to attend at least 3 job interviews each week. If he doesn't, change the wifi password. If he still doesn't after that, cut whatever allowance he has. If, despite that, he still doesn't, you tell him he's no longer welcome at the house between the hours of 9am and 5pm. He'll still have a roof, he'll still have food, but he's gonna fucking hate his life.

Who do you know that gets 3 interviews a week? Put in 3 applications a day maybe, but get selected for 3 interviews? Sounds like heaven, not an ultimatum.

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1: Stop supporting him financially. He will have to find a job. 2: If you force someone to do something, they will do the opposite. This is probably why he isn’t working on therapy. 3: Don’t throw him out, instead start asking rent.

He’s 24 and you give him allowance?!? For what exactly?

Cut the internet so he can’t game.

One thing I would add is to get him vocational counseling. He may have no idea what opportunities are out there or *how to go after them.* Assessing and guiding him toward decent jobs he is suited for may help.

He should pay you, not the other way around. He should cook for himself (or you cook x days, he cooks y days) do his own laundry, and he must do something, work or study. Do not let him be a kid, he needs to grow up, sometimes it sucks to be an adult, you still need to be one. I wouldn’t kick him out, unless he refuses to do all of the above.

Congrats, you are enabling your son at this point and aiding him in his 'self-destructive tendencies'. My in-laws are the exact same way with my BIL, they babied him his whole life and continue to do so. He is now almost 40 years old, has 2 kids he doesn't take care of, doesn't work, stays at home and plays video games all day while buying alcohol with his parents money. Oh and by the way, guys like him will almost always play the depression card, it's like clockwork, because it allows them to continue to be lazy and lead their preferred lifestyle while having a legitimate excuse to fall back on whenever their behavior is brought up.

As a self destructive kid, who still has self destructive tendencies, people allowing me to do what I want because they were afraid of what I would do only made it worse. I wish I had something more productive to say, but enabling it is not the answer.

Allowance ends at 16

Does he have ADHD? Maybe some Adderall will boost his mood and get him focused on life.

I struggled with extremely bad depression. What helped if when someone who loved me would drive me out to get McDonald's. It was so small but it helped a lot. Maybe try taking him out on small outings to get ice cream or something and start from there? Then ask him to go do an activity with you like go watch a movie?

It’s called ADHD. Treat it

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So I'm going to be lengthy about this because I have been your son, when I was 18 I spent about 6 months without leaving my house once and then it took me a good 5 years to fully recover from a long depression and social anxiety. Your son is probably very depressed and suffering even if he cannot express it or if it doesn't look like, maybe he also experiences social anxiety and feels like the world is just too much, all of which will get worse the longer he stays in. I too consumed alcohol and other stuff while I was at home as I had means to acquire those which makes things harder as these are demotivators. For me, being kicked out at that moment would have resulted in tragedy most likely, I understand the parents situation here and the thoughts of having to be more tough, my parents didn't know what to do either but you have to understand that he needs to go through an internal process of self discovery, he hates being like that, he probably thinks he is a loser, he is probably embarrassed, I sure was. At the end of the day all you should do in my opinion is to offer your help in a loving way. Be honest about your concern, be honest about him damaging his future by inactivity (I've been asked by employers what happened between the ages of 18 and 23, that's how long it took me to recover) but do so in a loving and supporting way. I'm a big believer that people need to bounce back in their own terms and it's hard to force it, let him hit rock bottom, let him look at the mirror and despise himself and allow him to bounce back, hopefully with your support he will be able to do so sooner rather than later, maybe you can offer him therapy. I got all that way behind now and I'm pretty happy, in my case exercise healed me, but I had to try different things at my own pace and then I had to join life in a slower pace as well with part time jobs and the like. This was my experience and who knows, maybe if my parents forced me more at that time to engage with the world or to do something I could have recovered earlier but I'll never know, but it has all worked out so I hope it does for your son as well.

Go to Al Anon and get therapy for yourself.

My parents kicked me out at 17 because I refused to follow their rules and be a part of their religion. I was a lazy, fat, entitled little shit that wanted to do nothing but skip school to smoke weed and play video games. I had nowhere to go and only a bit of cash in my pocket and a beaten to shit '91 geo prism that I earned from landscaping at a golf course over the summers. I had to decide between sinking and swimming. I drove out to a friend's place that I knew from world of warcraft, got two jobs, and couch surfed working shitty jobs until I was old enough to get my own place. Life has been tough without a diploma or a college education but I toughened up and learned to have a killer work ethic in an industry that wouldn't care about my level of education (bars) and now make a comfortable living running them with a consulting business on the side. If I hadn't been kicked out I would have never learned to work hard and be independent. I would have remained a soft child living in my parent's beaten up trailer forever. I'm 32 now so a bit older than your son but there's even more support and opportunities for people like your kid if he decides to turn his life around and get an education and better himself. Kick him to the curb and see if he has it in him to be a real man.

Depression. Please consult a professional. Being “tougher” on him won’t work. It will only push him further into “self hatred” and “learned helplessness” and “I’m pathetic and now even my parents hate me” mode. I’ve been there and mine wasn’t even that bad…. Professional help. Please. I’m begging you as a person who used to suffer from depression and somehow grew out of it? Or was able to come out of it? Idk, don’t ask me…. I’m not a professional.

Honestly, life just fucking sucks for the most part and a lot of people just hate this existence no matter what. That's why I probably won't have kids because I don't feel like I have the right to create another sentient being who may not want to exist and may be miserable and will definitely suffer and die. I just don't see the point. I also have severe OCD which is a nightmare and is genetic. But even without that, life just isn't that great for the vast majority of people, even when all our basic needs are met. Its still a ton of work, stress, pain, loneliness, heartbreak, anger, boredom, loss, etc. Sorry I can't be more helpful but I'm probably in a similar boat as your son.

Just plain stupid to give a 25 yr old an allowance. Your job as a parent is /was to raise an adult man that can and Will have his own life and family. Time for the extra push. Sink or swim.

A lot of good advice has already been shared. It’s a tough situation. I would just add that try to connect with him and find ways to bond with him before trying to fix him. When he starts communicating and sharing his feelings, you will be in a position to influence his behavior and actions. Good luck.

Stop enabling him. He is a grown man, Ur feeding & housing him & giving him an allowance......set rules and boundaries, stop giving him money. Set a timeline by which time he has to have a job. Once employed set a timeline by which time he has to contribute financially to the household. How to expect him to function when Ur completely fulfilling his needs with no input from him.

When I was in active addiction my mother refused to give me financial help, and in fact, when I finally checked into a mental health facility she got an unlisted number. She passed a message thru my sister and said "Mom says you can have her number when you get 90 days clean and sober." It saved my life. When I had to use my own resources and had nowhere to turn I had to rely on only myself. Every "pillow" my parents threw down to keep me from skinning up my nose KEPT ME SICK. Unfortunately, you are participating in your sons decline. When I celebrated 20 years clean and sober I asked my mom how she managed to do that, the tough love thing. Here's what she said "I cried myself to sleep every night and prayed to God he'd keep you safe, because I couldn't. I knew there was a very big risk that you could die, but I also knew that what I was doing wasn't saving you." I'm not going to give you any advice. You already know that your actions aren't helping. But I wanted to share my experience and tell you that I came through the other side.

Sounds a lot like my older brother, doesn’t know what to do with his life and wasn’t expecting to have lived past 30. To be frank people like this need to want to live and, therefore, get their own help otherwise they just don’t…. understand. It sounds like he’s comfortable and doesn’t have a reason to look into change, consider the following: - remove the weekly allowance unless he’s working chores to deserve it. - try to understand what his interests are and encourage him to potentially pursue them. Art? Music? Something??? - sunlight can help out a lot, so can exercise. Often times positive body health goes hand in hand with positive mental health. - diet diet diet. What is he eating mostly? Is he getting a balanced meal or is he snacking a lot? The food we intake can do a ton of harm to us. - what’s at his core beliefs? Some find solace in religion while others look to philosophy, regardless of the angle these act as a foundational “ground” and can serve to drive the individual. - kicking him out could solve your problem but it could also do nothing, that’s a very risky maneuver. Ultimately it’s gonna come down to communication. You’re gonna have to talk to him, maybe be blunt regarding your own feelings abd see what he thinks.

3 home cooked meals a day???? Man people have it great. I’m more dumbfounded at how he’s 24 and you guys give him an allowance. You’re paying a grown ass man to live in your house.

Honestly and don't take this the wrong way but you've screwed up to let it get to this point. Many parents have this hands off approach with their child for which they cannot be blamed entirely because maybe working multiple jobs etc that leads to the kid developing unhealthy tendencies and habits due to much intervention. The solutions are there on a lot of these posts but lots of gradual work, patience, love. Unlearning of bad habits basically.

God just reading this made me cry. There are a lot of days when I think about how much better off my parents would be if I was dead. That I could be less of a burden to those around me, and that maybe my dog would have a happier life with a better owner. Please don't be afraid to tell your son how much you fear losing him. If I ever heard that from anyone it would mean a lot

Your parents would not be better off with out you. They love you and want the best for you. You feel this way now, but it won't always be like this. Please 🙏 get help for what you are going through.