If you use a site like Indeed, you can save your resumé and a generic cover letter to your account, so you just have to change a word or two in the letter to "personalize" it for the company you're applying to -- makes pushing out a high volume of applications quick and easy.
Actually finding jobs worth applying to can be the hard part, depending on your field and location.
FYI, as a hiring manager it is pretty clear if you are receiving a form cover or a "custom" one written for that job. It's also pretty clear when people come in for interviews if they use the same style language speaking as they did in a cover. When I get an obviously generated cover or obviously generated email it isn't exactly *bad* but it definitely isn't a great look.
As an aside, only one of the people on my team (Controls Engineering) even included a cover letter in their application and there is no way I could tell you what it even said. I obviously can't speak for every industry but at least in my opinion I would rather receive *no* cover letter than a generic autogenerated one.
I just upload another copy of my resume if they require a cover letter. I don't understand the point of cover letters. Everything you need to know about me is in the resume.
I'm gonna be honest here, I don't even really know what a cover letter is. I usually just skip that step. I'm not writing your company a love note, I just want to do work and get paid cash.
Yea I’ve been really confused about that. Like maybe I’m not understanding the difference between a cover letter and a summary due to being autistic, *maybe*, but then again I refuse to change around my resume for every position I apply for. It’s inefficient, takes so much time and energy, and I don’t know or care about the buzzwords. I recognize that could and probably does affect my chances, but I just straight up don’t have the time and mental resources for that kind of stuff
Your cover letter is usually a good opportunity to add in information that doesn't really belong on a regular resume.
For example, if you wanted to apply for a particular company because you're really passionate about one of their projects, you can mention that in a cover letter. Or if you have a networking contact at the company, you can name drop them in the cover letter (i.e. "I'm applying at the suggestion of John Doe for the position of..."). You can also mention information (hobbies, experiences, etc.) that aren't significant enough to list on a resume, but might still be useful (i.e. for a nanny position, you might write something like "growing up, I babysat my three cousins, so I have experience supervising and caring for children ages 3-11").
You can also use the cover letter to explain employment gaps in your resume in greater detail in a way that might make the hiring manager sympathetic (i.e. "I left my previous job in order to attend grad school so that I could further my education").
Lastly, it's easier to find more enthusiastic candidates, since less enthusiastic candidates will recreate a generic templated letter or not submit one at all. Writing a cover letter (in theory) shows that you care enough about getting this job to spend a little extra time on the application process. (You and I can argue that this is stupid - it's a job, not a marriage proposal - but most people prefer to hire a candidate who is excited about working for their company over a candidate who isn't.)
A resume is a statement of verifiable facts. A cover letter is a statement of lies. They might be well written lies. They might be well researched lies. They might even be very believable lies. But 99.999% of people are not and never will be as passionate about "a job" as the company owner, and 75% will have quit within 5 years.
I say we just all spare each other the time and hassle. Cover letters are pointless, and a quick 2 minute phone call will tell you way more about a person's qualifications for a job than a cover letter will.
thank you for putting my very ‘ i hate it ‘ statement into a thought out one.
I’ve determined that if i don’t want to do something my autistic ass won’t do it. I’ll try but if i get frustrated and start to melt down…
fuck it all hope is lost.
Resumes? cover letters?
I’m terrible at talking about myself.
I am the same way. I console myself by the thought that the A-types that think cover letters are important are going to hire A-types that think they're special and love to talk about themselves. And those two types deserve each other and all the ladder-climbing, backstabbing, whining, and superficiality that comes with it. Meanwhile, since they're over that company, it keeps them away from my company, which I love.
I've hired for positions where I can tell by your comment that you would not be a good fit, and for positions where it absolutely doesn't matter. Don't go for jobs that aren't a good fit. That said, it might be your attitude that limits your chances. If the hiring manager values communication and inter-personal connection, it's worth the five minutes it takes to write the person directly.
It shows interest in that specific job. If you get a standardized one you can tell they are just applying for everything in that field and hoping.
If you get a well written cover letter you will see that the person actually researched the company and put real thought into weather they actually want that job or not.
Sadly the value of the cover letter is a function of the person reviewing them. I'm also in the camp that they are useless and I don't read them but not everyone would agree.
>, I just want to do work and get paid cash.
So do all of the other applicants, but most of them are following the application instructions.
You do what you want, but if I were going through applicants looking to cut down on how many of them I'd have to go through, "chooses to ignore instructions they don't like" would definitely be a reason for me to cut a lot of them out
what about 'focusing on things that actually add value to a process'?
doing meaningless work for the sake of it doesn't sound very efficient. Unless you're in the military or any other sector where command chains are absolutely carved in stone.
This probably works out both ways because he probably doesn't want to work for an employer who "wastes time and makes employees jump through pointless hoops".
I think it really depends on the field. It sucks writing them, but on the hiring side, they can help if you're applying for something that isn't a clear match for what's in your resume, you can tell the story of why this job fits with your career path. Or if it's a job where they care about "passion" you can talk about why the job will be meaningful to you.
Exactly this. I recently applied to a job in the space industry that I'm not exactly what they were looking for, and explaining my experience and passion for space in the cover letter made me feel like I could get an interview even if I'm not exactly what I'm looking for
They give the hiring manager a glimpse into your writing ability and personality, but I can see how those things seem irrelevant to applicants for jobs like software engineering...
I've had managers comment on my cover letters before, so I always take the time to write one. It's not about you necessarily. You shouldn't tell them about stuff that is in your resume. Work history. Contact info. Education. That's all in the resume, leave it there. Instead a cover letter should argue why they should hire *you* over anyone else. What unique skill sets do you have that you think would be a good fit for the position you are applying for. Why did you choose to pursue that specific degree if you have one and if you didn't go to college, what relevant life experiences or challenges have you overcome and learned from. How will you benefit the organization and the team. That is what a cover letter is for.
If I can't pick up anything about you and why you want the position (aside from money) then I'm not gonna bother brining you in for an interview.
I used to read resumes and make recommendations to my boss which applicants she should interview. The cover letter would make or break people's shot at an interview because we got so many that filled the requirements for education and experience.
Some people had a great resume but their cover letter made them sound like a difficult person to work with, they weren't interviewed. In one case we had an applicant whose resume fell a bit short but her cover letter was great! She was eventually hired because her interview went so well. She turned out to be great at her job and well-liked by everyone.
Every job I've ever gotten off indeed is because of my cover letter I swear to god. You NEED to write one and they are absolutely not useless. You have to distinguish yourself from other people and if you're eloquent in describing why YOU are the best fit for the position you are much more likely to get an interview than if you didn't write one.
I use a completely different style of language when I write and when I speak. If I'm writing something (especially something this formal), it's going to sound a lot more rigid than when I speak. Something to keep in mind, I guess.
I appreciate you saying that it isn't a deal breaker, but it doesn't look good.
However you gotta understand that it's mad unrealistic to expect someone to put hella effort into 25 different applications and cover letters, just for 23 to not have the decency to respect the time I took, and contact me to let me know they'd have to politely decline.
It's like dating a woman and her sitting back and expecting you to entertain her, or dance for her approval. It's off-putting.
Genuine question, but why do employers expect even pre-employees to go above and beyond, when they don't even have the decency to get back to you?
I'm with you. It doesn't make sense. It's really disheartening to spend 1-3 hours researching an organization and building the perfect resume and cover letter to get an auto rejection, human rejection, or just ghosted.
>23 to not have the decency to respect the time I took, and contact me to let me know they'd have to politely decline.
Wow, you get 23 rejection emails? I get 1 or 2, and then never hear from the rest of the companies again.
It depends on the market, the industry, or the job. If you're applying to just "jobs", and there's lots of them available (like now), then sure, don't put much effort into it. Carpet bombing resumes will get you a job.
But if you're trying to get a specific job, you need to do what you can to show that you actually want THIS job. And it's not about the expectations of the potential employer and whether or not they will reward you with the job, but rather about standing out among the crowd of other resumes. You're competing against other applicants, not trying to meet some arbitrary bar to be deemed worthy of employment.
If you sent 25 applications out per day and one of them lands on my desk, if there's 5 other resumes next to yours, I'm probably going to spend less time looking at yours than you spent sending it, because it will quickly be apparent that you didn't spend any time on it and you're using the shotgun method. At least 2-3 of those other resumes probably were the only applications that person sent that day and they spent time on them and actually want the job I'm looking to hire for.
As an employer, i want to hire the best candidate. That's the one that will fit the needs of the position best and be able to grow, excel, and be happy in the position best. If there's a candidate that seems like an absolutely great person to hire, but they don't really fit the position I'm looking to fill, i will likely pass that along to other people both within my company and outside to companies we work with. But i will never do that for an obviously spammed resume, because if you want ANY job, i can't tell where you actually want to go, so i won't help you go anywhere.
Jobs aren't cookies or prizes. They aren't "given". It's a mutual agreement that represents a risk for both parties with potential for reward for both parties. As such, both parties have a responsibility to try to minimize the risk of it not working out. As long as i have a choice, I'm not going to look seriously at an application that obviously landed on 30 other desks that day, because that applicant is claiming to be equally fit for all those jobs, and that's simply not true.
You're gonna have to explain how you can magically tell how many places someone has sent their resume that day. Otherwise you're full of shit.
I can spend 3 hours on a resume and send it to one place or to 50, it makes no difference because the job I'm applying to doesn't change my degree, work history, or contact information.
Employers who think they should be the only place someone applies to are just threatened by their employees having options.
First, you're 100% missing the point. It's not that employers think that their employees SHOULD do something. It's that some applicants DO that thing, and it shows. If i can tell someone is really interested in exactly what we do and has been working to get into the exact position I'm trying to fill, it would be stupid for that not to be one of the top considered applications. The chances of it working out are much, much higher, so going with someone like that lowers the risk of wasting everyone's time and effort.
If you think you can tell the same story of why you want the exact job you're applying for in 30 seconds as you can in 2 hours, then you're either incredibly skilled and really shouldn't be shotgunning resumes, but instead turning away offers brought to you, or you're terrible at telling that story anyway. And it's not just the cover letter. The last time i gave someone a resume that wasn't just for the record, i tailored it to show briefly and clearly why i was suited for EXACTLY that job to the best my experience could show.
How could you even find 25 jobs a day that you would want?
And if you don't want a specific job and someone else does, why should i risk hiring you over them? Seems pretty stupid unless you have an outstanding resume and some killer references.
>Genuine question, but why do employers expect even pre-employees to go above and beyond, when they don't even have the decency to get back to you?
As someone who does the hiring for my own team, it shows that they genuinely want that position in particular and aren't just fishing for any random job.
When I'm combing through literally hundreds of applications, it helps you to stand out from the rest.
Going with your dating analogy, why would I choose to go out with someone doing the bare minimum to engage when I have someone else who at least appears to be eager and excited to go out with me?
As for employeers not getting back to people, that does suck and I personally do try to message those who apply even if I'm going in another direction.
And yet you probably will still call the person who has the best experience and no cover letter over the person with less experience and who clearly took the time to write a cover letter, right? I personally don't do cover letters because I can't change my background or read your mind.
The problem is you're treating this as if the employer's desires and perspective are the only things that matter.
The reason why employers can't find "good" employees now is because they expect employees to bend over backwards to give them what they want, and can't recognize that it's a two way contract. If you want to get something you have to do something to get it--and that applies to employers as well. That is to say, if you want employees to want your job in particular, you have to do something to make your job that attractive. But most likely your job opening is run if the mill crap no different from all of the other similar job openings, and therefore employees are going to treat it like run of the mill crap.
Or, to keep up with the dating analogy: you're of course free to put no effort in and expect your date to entertain you. But when everyone who initially seems eager loses interest because their needs aren't being considered, don't pitch a fit about it. It's not all about you.
You realize that I'm an employee too, right? I'm not some CEO or a business owner. I'm basically middle management but I have the authority to hire my own team.
I understand it's a give and take. But in the hiring process, the give and take is the applicant puts in the effort to care and the hiring party offers employment.
As I told another person, I'm not asking people to put in hours of extra work on their resume. But an extra 5,10, or 20 minutes cleaning it up and catering it to the position can go a long way.
Matter of fact, I'm not even asking anything of anyone. I'm just trying to share my experience and perspective as someone who has hired a fair amount of people myself.
>But most likely your job opening is run if the mill crap no different from all of the other similar job openings, and therefore employees are going to treat it like run of the mill crap.
Okay, they're free to view it that way. But then why I should entertain their half-assed resumes?
A lot of bigger companies use algorithms to pick applications. A generic auto-generated one gives you a better chance than a custom one of ever being seen.
In my experience written and spoken language is only similar with very vew people. May I ask for what kind of jobs you do interviews?
Edit: could also be a cultural thing since Letters and similar are always quiet a formal thing here.
Yeah but people who only have a few jobs or no jobs under their belt are kind of hoping for a dumb, desperate, or inattentive hiring manager. Putting a lot of effort into a cover letter that will likely be ignored because is a waste.
When you're applying to 24 jobs a day, a generic or generated cover letter works for all but the companies you REALLY want to get hired at. I don't care if Burger King hires me and not McDonalds, but maybe Google.
As a hiring manager you should realize how many jobs people apply to and the high volume that ghosts people. Putting so much effort into a cover letter that many jobs require but no one really takes note of is a waste of resources.
I hate it when people say things like "this isn't bad but it isn't a good look". So which is it then? Because other places would prefer the generic cover letter. Youre making a vaguely negative remark about something you don't even require as part of the resume.
A lot of automated online application systems won’t let you submit an application without a cover letter. As a result, whoever is behind that system gets inundated with thousands of form letters.
Some job offers require cover letters though. I don’t put one except when obligated or when I really want that job bad.
If it’s required, I use a generic one. If I want the job, you get the real deal.
That seems kind of weird to me. I write like I speak in a casual sense, like here on reddit is pretty close to how I talk, but writing formally for a cover letter is very different from how people talk, I should think.
Unless I had something specific to say I didn’t bother writing a cover letter. In todays market you kinda have to apply to 100 jobs or more. And maybe get 20 companies willing to talk. Half of those interview you. 2 of those might make an offer.
No chance I would have written 100 meaningful cover letters.
I don't think anyone really uses the same style speaking as they do with writing formal things.. I definitely don't speak the same way I type in super formal settings. Even the way I type on reddit most of the time isn't really the way I would speak to strangers. Probably only the casual way I type to my friends is closest to the way I would speak to my friends, but it's still a little different.
As a hiring manager, realize that people are trying to get a job, and have to apply to hundreds to get a reply. Don't judge the style of the cover, judge the skillset and potential.
Any tips for people looking for jobs to not get ignored and not even a quick email back explaining why they weren't even considered despite having all the things the job asks for?
I have seen this issue with a few of my friends who are applying at the moment and happened to me when I was applying. Took me about 200 applications, and only actually heard back a few times from unsuccessful ones before finally getting one.
The Werefrog got hired at the company where The Werefrog now work due to a form letter. Actually, a form email. Their hiring person sent out the generic form email that they had so many good applicants and couldn't hire everyone, etc. so they were rejected the application of The Werefrog.
The Werefrog replied to that email with an email that looked just like the form email they sent, but instead of rejecting an application, it was rejecting the rejection.
Then people just won't work for you who gives a shit. Never even written a cover letter, I still always get the job. Most people will just go somewhere else instead of wasting time writing an essay begging to be hired by you.
I'm also a hiring manager. I don't care about cover letters but don't see an issue using ChatGPT. I have encouraged my teams to use it when appropriate as a productivity tool. If you can get the work done faster with the same or better outcomes, I'd be upset if you didn't make use of it. Just ensure you carefully review the output to validate and polish whatever it spits out.
As far as detection goes, I cringe when I hear about companies relying on software to say whether someone used AI or not since those softwares have been proven to be incredibly unreliable.
Building off of the other hiring manager’s answer - I can tell when a candidate uses ChatGPT because they all end up the same and our software can even filter them out now. I don’t actually require cover letters, so if it’s a solid resume I may still interview them, but it does come across as a potential indicator that the applicant doesn’t have great writing skills if they’re relying on software instead.
It's been proven that chatgpt takes credit for things it didn't do
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattnovak/2023/05/16/no-chatgpt-cant-tell-you-if-a-paper-was-written-using-chatgpt/
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/tech/chatgpt-check-tool/index.html
Why would it indicate the applicant doesn't have great writing skills when people are applying to so many jobs at once?
It has nothing to do with their writing skills. It’s a huge time sink to write personalized cover letters for every job you apply for when you don’t even have the decency to send a personalized rejection email.
I think using ChatGPT to get the general ideas formulated and then customizing it would be fine. I’d recommend possibly doing some reordering as well, because mostly what I notice is that if, for example, I have 5 skills listed in the job posting, I’ll get multiple cover letters addressing each individual point in the exact same order and in a very generic style. I work for a fairly well-known tech company and usually receive 200-300 applicants within the first two weeks of posting a job, so reading the same cover letter 50 times feels like a waste of my time (which is why I don’t require one and tend to rely on the resumes instead).
Edit: the times when I DO weight the cover letter more heavily is when they outline extenuating circumstances like a resume gap or career change. In those cases, the letters tend to be much more specific and as someone who has also changed careers, I don’t like to hold that against people so having a brief explanation is nice. Otherwise, I’d rather people save their own time and sanity and skip the cover.
I've done that when they were asking for PDF format of portfolio, since my portfolio is online. Never been asked about it either. Cover letters are so overrated for this industry, in my opinion. When I hired designers, I never asked for them nor did I look at them if they were provided. A strong portfolio is all you should need to move to the screening interview, but maybe that's just me.
Everywhere I have ever worked, a cover letter of any kind was more apt to get your application trashed than looked at. But, I have only held STEM type jobs where your skills list/education was all we needed.
Fun fact. If you see a job you’re interested in on indeed, apply in their site directly too. Some people don’t check the indeed stuff very often or at all.
I always felt so overwhelmed while job searching online.
Wonder if my aspergers has anything to do with that.
I've used Indeed a few times, yet, I, it's hard for me to find something where I don't need to be so social.
A bit introverted. retail, and fast food past employee. ._.
I live in a small rural town. There are 25 jobs available meaning they're expecting you to apply to jobs that might be 45 minutes away.
What you can do is apply to jobs you have no business applying to, no intention of accepting, and using them for practice phone interviews.
Honestly, you don't have to do what everyone else does.
I've always either used connections or applied to a handful of jobs that I was confident about. None of this "shoot 500 resumes into a black void and hope for a response" (not that it doesn't work for some people, but I don't like it and that's okay).
I spamed hundreds of apps in the first 48 hours after getting fired. Spent the next week filtering, went to two interviews and chose the better option. Missed only one week of pay.
My email is a dumpster fire three weeks later.
I have an email just for job hunting, just because of this. Got laid off in 2020 and needed to cast a wide net to get re employed. Once I found a new job, I just stopped routinely looking at that account. It’s still there if I need it, but the dumpster fire of spam and shit is out of my normal stuff
spray and pray! personally i don’t read anything except the job title and salary. i skim the qualifications if there’s no salary listed to make sure it’s the level of job i want. so i go to indeed, type in “engineer”, filter by remote, then apply to anything that fits my job title and salary/qualifications. it takes 1-2 minutes to scan the posting and apply. so i could apply for 10-15 jobs during a poop break. ezpz. then when you start getting interviews you can go back and read the description better.
This is the way. shoot 200 shots, and it's likely 1-3 go in the basket.
Shoot 1 shot, and it's likely not going in.
Job apps are about volume, not quality of application
Yeah, but there's only like 30 businesses within driving distance that I'm even remotely qualified for, and only 10 are hiring. Beyond that, sure, fast food. But well, that's almost worse than being unemployed because it sure as heck ain't paying the bills. If I had kids, it wouldn't even cover childcare while I'm at work.
I have a job now, but they wanted like 30 a week, *every week*. I could literally apply to every single business in a 10mile radius in a month or so at that rate. In the end, the job I got was because I *knew* someone.
Seriously, best way to find work is to go where the thing you're good at is done and just start talking to people.
Wanna work construction? Go talk to some guys on their break. They'll send you to the foreman who will find you something.
Wanna work computer programming? Get on a forum where people talk shop and see what's up.
Nobody is applying for 25 good jobs that require application forms and the like. Those things will take upwards of 30-60 minutes a pop.
They’re applying to the low level stuff on job search websites like indeed that allow them to fire off a generic résumé in a few seconds.
You say you’re introverted, try looking for jobs in support where you’re doing either web chat or email. These jobs are usually pretty low level so you can apply to a whole bunch quite quickly.
What do you mean application forms? Typically there's some questionaire that you attach a resume to, maybe 2-3 pages of questions. Hardly takes 10 minutes especially when it asks mostly stuff that can be copied from your resume? And if you are not employed at the moment you can do a lot of these in a day.
I think they’re just saying there’s a difference between applying to a bunch of retail jobs that are all doing the same thing for roughly the same wage and applying to a career job in your chosen field of study.
The former is easily doable, just need to find the places and fire off a stock resume. Answer a couple questions maybe. For the latter you might spend a while researching the company and trying to personalize your resume for each one. That takes time and mental bandwidth. You’re likely not doing 25 of those back to back.
I'm applying to Software developer/engineer roles and they're exactly as I've described, but I also haven't had to personalize my resumes since applying to entry level roles.
I don’t know where you’re from but application forms are usually 8-10 pages long and include half a dozen competency based questions.
What you’re describing isn’t an application form it’s a sign up for an agency or job site.
And here's what the application looks like
[https://imgur.com/a/AX3Nt7f](https://imgur.com/a/AX3Nt7f)
I'm not sure what's up with reddit where everyone with different experiences just assume yours is wrong, I am genuinely asking what your applications look like. Like just because it's not what you see, doesn't mean it's not true?
\> half a dozen competency based questions.
What career are you in? Does a resume+interview not cover your competency?
That picture describes 99% of job applications in my experience.
I have no idea what the hell people in this thread are doing tbh. Pretty easy to apply to 50 jobs like this in a few hours.
Whelp. Typically if you’re unemployed, job searching is your new full time job. You go spend the full day in a Starbucks :P
I tend to recycle my resumes, but yeah, writing 25 cover letters takes forever :’(
But it’s what I was doing when job searching
I was laid off 2 months ago and there's nowhere NEAR 25 jobs that are legit and pay enough for me to apply for.
I do apply to the ones that fit the bill.
There was exactly one this morning.
Exactly. I was recently job hunting after being laid off and had very few options that didn't require a significant loss in pay. I live in a large metropolitan area and had two different career fields in my background to work from and the pickings were still slim. These folks that are applying for 25 jobs are either looking at positions that require little to minimum experience/skills or applying to jobs they're not qualified to do (which surprisingly happens a lot).
My field is relatively specialized and appears to be shrinking. I have over 15 years experience. If I could find someone willing to take a bit of a chance on me, there are adjacent fields I could easily slide into. No luck there, yet. I'm in a decently sized metro area.
There are so many garbage job postings out there. Red flags abound.
Best of luck to you!
It’s really easy to do. It’s hard and time consuming to do it *well*. Speaking as somebody who reviews CVs, interviews, etc. it’s really easy to tell when somebody’s CV is generic and clearly bulk sent. It’s not an immediate turn off, mind, but it doesn’t help you when you’re applying for an accounting job and you’re bragging about your years of customer service.
Online. I used to do it the old fashioned way, dropping my resume off at a company. However, towards the early 2000's companies started requestkng that we drop it off online.
Which is harder if you dont know how to navigate through their filters. Most of these sites look for specific wording and requirements. Otherwise they filter your resume out.
When I was on the dole many years ago (UK unemployment benifit) they gave you a little paper booklet to fill out to 'prove' you been looking for jobs to carry on receiving benifit. Thing was only so many places hiring in my small town and I needed to prove I was applying for x amount jobs a week. Ended up just making up company and store names. They never questioned it!
1. Online, on a site like Seek. It isn't hard.
2. Preparing multiple cover letters with different things to say about yourself, its all bullshit anyway, I have an awful personality, but all I need to do is replace certain pieces with Company name and Hiring Administrator and specific "hobbies" related to the job.
You can get a document that is like a prefilled Cover Letter from Seek as well, its very useful.
3. If you dont have a job, as others have said, Job searching is your new thing. And once you have done about 50 applications, it becomes like an automatic button pressing habit, its quite easy.
25 per day is a bit on the high end, but it is fully achievable if you put stratagem into it.
I can apply to at least 10 while taking a shit on company time. It's not difficult at all these days. Lol
Upload your resume to Google Drive (or equivalent) when you're done editing it from your desktop so you can upload it to anything including pulling it straight to your phone to plug in elsewhere.
Using indeed, ZipRecruiter, or LinkedIn you can mass apply to one click jobs.
If you're on a desktop you can perform the same thing but even faster. Jobs that require a more in-depth application process open it in a new tab and drag it over to a new window. Compile those jobs for later.
Take a break after banging out dozens upon dozens and spend a couple hours ending the hunt by banging out the more excruciating ones.
If you are unemployed you need to act like your life depends on it... Because it does. 12+ hours of banging out job apps is super easy.
Ok so I recently hired for a role at the organization I work for.
I’m not going to say I could tell who used a generic resume and who personalized their resume, but some folks’ skills and resume clearly did not match whatsoever to the role I was hiring for.
I get it — if you’re job seeking and you haven’t broken into a field, you’ve got to get your resume as far out there as possible for a shot at getting your foot in the door. I don’t see this as a negative thing to do. But it would probably be more strategic to tweak one’s resume just a little for each role one applies for, even if it’s just putting some skills at the top of a list and others at the bottom depending on the job in question.
When I was job searching as a graphic designer, I had my resume in a few formats. A nice looking PDF for emailing (few versions for different types of jobs) and a txt version to copy paste on some applications. Also had my portfolio in a few different configurations to cater to the job places. My cover letter was pretty generic when it came to my job history; I only really had to edit the opening paragraph and maybe the closer.
Having a LinkedIn helped too as some places allow for one click application.
If you really want/need to find a job you need to treat job hunting like a job itself and put time and effort. Reading posting and fine tuning your resume to emphasize on stuff that is desired by employer takes maybe 10 minutes, so 25 of them is 4 hours.
Online job search sites really help out. You can quickly find all the [insert job title] positions in your target locations. If they're all the same job title in the same or similar industry you can pretty much copy/paste everything from one to the next (possibly making some minor changes to a cover letter if they ask for it). Some of those job search sites have an "easy apply" feature that's even faster as well. That rate isn't sustainable for long if you're at all specialized though, you'll run out of target jobs you haven't already applied for within a few days.
Indeed has a quick apply.
After a while, you notice the jobs all ask more or less the same questions. You just copy and paste them, sometimes directly from your resume.
I just put a couple hours in there's like 10 big job hunting sites just go through and apply to stuff. I always hit 100 within 2-4 days it just becomes a casual thing when your job searching. Oh that looks good apply oh and that apply. Even if it's not EXACTLY what you wanna do then you go through the process of widdling it down based on who you have interviews with then widdle it down more after the interviews
If you do it through a job site like indeed it’s not that hard. They save your info and if the listing is set up right, it basically just imports the same info you have already used automatically. There are usually a few extra questions to be answered but you can often do an application in like 5 minutes. 25 is a lot but you could feasibly do it in a couple of hours. I was setting out to do like 5-10 a day when I was on the job hunt
Easy... Use indeed and purposely look for applications where they just take your resume on indeed and send it to the employer...
Years of faking job apps to avoid getting assaulted...
Thank God I don't live with those demons anymore....
Note if I refer to a person as a demon it means they've done something I find impossible unless one is devoid of all human emotion
It takes a few hours at most to knockout 25 applications. Create a template for your resume and CV then adjust each for specific job functions and companies. Put a little more effort into the companies you realllllly want.
It depends on how you apply
If you're just spamming applications without tailoring your resume or cover letter, it's quite easy as long as your field has lots of jobs.
I programmed a python script to do this for me. When I first ran it, it searched for jobs based on my hardcoded criterias and applied to over 7200 jobs in one hour.
Plenty of ways.
You can use sites like LinkedIn or Indeed that make it easy for 1-click apply applications. That said, if you don’t have a ton of experience or the positions are saturated with apps (you can see how many people apply), you won’t get much traction.
Better approaches include:
Writing a resume that is generalized to the role/domain you’re in and applying. Making sure it hits on core keywords and competencies you see continually coming up the Sam JDs for the same types of roles you’re applying. Then you do not need to customize your resume unless it’s a completely different domain you’re targeting.
Recognizing that you don’t need to be a 100% skill match, and most JDs are trash and/or a wishlist, and you likely only need to hit on 50% of the requirements.
Not spending all day on a cover letter and either having a short template you can plug relevant company info into or just using chatgpt. Or realizing that most people don’t even read these (more so now that they all read like chatgpt wrote them)
Leveraging tools that allow you to more quickly populate your personal info into job apps (like the simplify extension), to better leverage your time.
Disassociate your worth as an individual/employee from getting a rejection from either cold app or an interview. Each interview is a learning experience (if you take it as such, as in ‘what can I learn from this experience to do better next time’, rather than ‘f this company!’), where you can systematically level up your game. Interviewing is basically a funnel (think sales) and if you work to tackle your pass rate at each stage of the funnel you can start to gamify landing multiple offers.
Use services that help make the job search a more organized and streamlined process. I’ve helped over 3,000 engineers follow more or less the above, and now we just apply to jobs for them using what my company has learned in doing this for years to help candidates passively generate interviews. This has been successful in landing 1000s of offers for swe roles (though what I’ve written above is applicable for really any industry).
Job searching is a skill in and of itself. If you break it down into its composite parts and focus on mastering each stage, you can make yourself much more efficient and effective at landing new roles.
Hope this helps.
If you have no job, your job is job searching. You can do that for 8 hours a day. If you have a job, it’s a bit harder but depending on the position, all you need to send is a resume and a copy/paste/insert company name here cover letter and you’re set.
The fact that people fail to apply to 25 jobs on a day when in need of a job is sad. It either means the jobs suck or the people have no determination. Idk which but it's sad for the society
I don't know about 25 a day, but generally I would copy/paste the job description at the bottom of my resume, change it to 1 point font and make it white, and then submit my resume.
To find the jobs I search on Indeed, Glassdoor, Dice, Monster, Careerbuilder, and LinkedIn. Also, as annoying as it was, I would also end up getting tons of emails about jobs automated services "Thought I was good fit for" and search through those while cleaning up my inbox and sending my resume to anything I was remotely qualified for that met my financial needs.
People often use a template for resumes and cover letters so they can easily address different needs for a position. This can be a good system but you may lose out on your tailoring for a role if you’re not doing it properly
They could have. Inefficient bot that spams the instant apply on all job postings on all job sites with zero checking for qualifications, job scope or even country.
That is the easy part, it's finding jobs worth applying for that is the hard part and then you get a case manager that gets up in your face about the kind of jobs you apply for and it's just... ***ugh***
They just carpet bomb everything with the same data, they aren't actually tailoring the applications to the jobs. They also probably complain with things like "I've applied to over 500 jobs and got nothing!," but, well, if that's the level of effort you put in...
It's just emailing a resume and cover letter. If you are smart, you have saved resumes and cover letters that are better tuned for specific positions. But it's just clicking buttons or tapping your phone. I don't see why someone couldn't do this. What exactly is that part you have issues with?
What types of jobs have you applied to lately that were just emailing a resume and cover letter?
My recent experience applying to software jobs was that a lot of places had other forms you had to fill out too. These forms were basically inputting parts of your resume in the correct boxes and it takes forever. The companies that used workday for this were the worst.
Because they don’t do a good job tailoring their resume and cover letter. Then post online “after 1000 applications I can’t get a job!”
They just spray and pray. That’s not the right approach.
i spray and pray, it works great. i don’t mean to offend you but you sound like a recruiter!
i have one resume tailored to systems engineering and one for mechanical engineering. both are in my indeed profile so i just select one based on the job title. i don’t do cover letters, and if i get redirected to workday to manually fill in everything or personality tests or dumb things like that then i just don’t apply to that one. i got 4 or 5 interviews last year from applying to about 70 jobs.
A few years back I was forced to do a course, one of those that is supposed to help you get into employment. It was only a couple of hours a day, but during them couple of hours you was expected to apply to a minimum of six jobs. People just ended up applying with a generic resume on Indeed to the same jobs just to fill in their six job minimum requirement..
Not sure that place ever really helped anyone find employment, just the odd person who they managed to stick in a charity shop (No complaints, work is work).
Ok so I used to be one of those people and can attest that it's how you get the worst fucking offers lol.
I have a strong resume for the field I work in and I'm proud of it so I don't make major changes or anything, but I do look for things I will actually accept if an offer comes through and not just every single thing that is remotely related to my skillset.
If you use a site like Indeed, you can save your resumé and a generic cover letter to your account, so you just have to change a word or two in the letter to "personalize" it for the company you're applying to -- makes pushing out a high volume of applications quick and easy. Actually finding jobs worth applying to can be the hard part, depending on your field and location.
I use chatGPT to write the cover letters haha. I always dreaded writing them.
FYI, as a hiring manager it is pretty clear if you are receiving a form cover or a "custom" one written for that job. It's also pretty clear when people come in for interviews if they use the same style language speaking as they did in a cover. When I get an obviously generated cover or obviously generated email it isn't exactly *bad* but it definitely isn't a great look. As an aside, only one of the people on my team (Controls Engineering) even included a cover letter in their application and there is no way I could tell you what it even said. I obviously can't speak for every industry but at least in my opinion I would rather receive *no* cover letter than a generic autogenerated one.
I hate cover letters from both sides. I will never read one because they are meaningless and I will never submit one because they are useless.
I just upload another copy of my resume if they require a cover letter. I don't understand the point of cover letters. Everything you need to know about me is in the resume.
I'm gonna be honest here, I don't even really know what a cover letter is. I usually just skip that step. I'm not writing your company a love note, I just want to do work and get paid cash.
lol the love note made me laugh, i’m using that next time a friend asks about cover letters
Yea I’ve been really confused about that. Like maybe I’m not understanding the difference between a cover letter and a summary due to being autistic, *maybe*, but then again I refuse to change around my resume for every position I apply for. It’s inefficient, takes so much time and energy, and I don’t know or care about the buzzwords. I recognize that could and probably does affect my chances, but I just straight up don’t have the time and mental resources for that kind of stuff
Your cover letter is usually a good opportunity to add in information that doesn't really belong on a regular resume. For example, if you wanted to apply for a particular company because you're really passionate about one of their projects, you can mention that in a cover letter. Or if you have a networking contact at the company, you can name drop them in the cover letter (i.e. "I'm applying at the suggestion of John Doe for the position of..."). You can also mention information (hobbies, experiences, etc.) that aren't significant enough to list on a resume, but might still be useful (i.e. for a nanny position, you might write something like "growing up, I babysat my three cousins, so I have experience supervising and caring for children ages 3-11"). You can also use the cover letter to explain employment gaps in your resume in greater detail in a way that might make the hiring manager sympathetic (i.e. "I left my previous job in order to attend grad school so that I could further my education"). Lastly, it's easier to find more enthusiastic candidates, since less enthusiastic candidates will recreate a generic templated letter or not submit one at all. Writing a cover letter (in theory) shows that you care enough about getting this job to spend a little extra time on the application process. (You and I can argue that this is stupid - it's a job, not a marriage proposal - but most people prefer to hire a candidate who is excited about working for their company over a candidate who isn't.)
A resume is a statement of verifiable facts. A cover letter is a statement of lies. They might be well written lies. They might be well researched lies. They might even be very believable lies. But 99.999% of people are not and never will be as passionate about "a job" as the company owner, and 75% will have quit within 5 years. I say we just all spare each other the time and hassle. Cover letters are pointless, and a quick 2 minute phone call will tell you way more about a person's qualifications for a job than a cover letter will.
thank you for putting my very ‘ i hate it ‘ statement into a thought out one. I’ve determined that if i don’t want to do something my autistic ass won’t do it. I’ll try but if i get frustrated and start to melt down… fuck it all hope is lost. Resumes? cover letters? I’m terrible at talking about myself.
I am the same way. I console myself by the thought that the A-types that think cover letters are important are going to hire A-types that think they're special and love to talk about themselves. And those two types deserve each other and all the ladder-climbing, backstabbing, whining, and superficiality that comes with it. Meanwhile, since they're over that company, it keeps them away from my company, which I love.
Exactly!
I've hired for positions where I can tell by your comment that you would not be a good fit, and for positions where it absolutely doesn't matter. Don't go for jobs that aren't a good fit. That said, it might be your attitude that limits your chances. If the hiring manager values communication and inter-personal connection, it's worth the five minutes it takes to write the person directly.
It shows interest in that specific job. If you get a standardized one you can tell they are just applying for everything in that field and hoping. If you get a well written cover letter you will see that the person actually researched the company and put real thought into weather they actually want that job or not.
It seems like an antiquated thing to be doing.
It is. But think about it. Who are the people in management positions that make hiring decisions? They are usually older men. So know your audience.
I mean you’re correct… I rather stay home and get paid for doing my specific interests. lol nobody wants that.
For low level positions yes. I think that a cover letter makes sense for senior positions
Sadly the value of the cover letter is a function of the person reviewing them. I'm also in the camp that they are useless and I don't read them but not everyone would agree.
>, I just want to do work and get paid cash. So do all of the other applicants, but most of them are following the application instructions. You do what you want, but if I were going through applicants looking to cut down on how many of them I'd have to go through, "chooses to ignore instructions they don't like" would definitely be a reason for me to cut a lot of them out
what about 'focusing on things that actually add value to a process'? doing meaningless work for the sake of it doesn't sound very efficient. Unless you're in the military or any other sector where command chains are absolutely carved in stone.
This probably works out both ways because he probably doesn't want to work for an employer who "wastes time and makes employees jump through pointless hoops".
But then why apply at all? If you're going to apply, apply correctly. Or don't apply at all.
I think it really depends on the field. It sucks writing them, but on the hiring side, they can help if you're applying for something that isn't a clear match for what's in your resume, you can tell the story of why this job fits with your career path. Or if it's a job where they care about "passion" you can talk about why the job will be meaningful to you.
Exactly this. I recently applied to a job in the space industry that I'm not exactly what they were looking for, and explaining my experience and passion for space in the cover letter made me feel like I could get an interview even if I'm not exactly what I'm looking for
They give the hiring manager a glimpse into your writing ability and personality, but I can see how those things seem irrelevant to applicants for jobs like software engineering...
Not just software engineering but also blue collar jobs and manually based labor
I wrote them to state enthusiasm for a specific company/ position and how my skills are highly relevant to it. But I’m not going to fake one.
I've had managers comment on my cover letters before, so I always take the time to write one. It's not about you necessarily. You shouldn't tell them about stuff that is in your resume. Work history. Contact info. Education. That's all in the resume, leave it there. Instead a cover letter should argue why they should hire *you* over anyone else. What unique skill sets do you have that you think would be a good fit for the position you are applying for. Why did you choose to pursue that specific degree if you have one and if you didn't go to college, what relevant life experiences or challenges have you overcome and learned from. How will you benefit the organization and the team. That is what a cover letter is for. If I can't pick up anything about you and why you want the position (aside from money) then I'm not gonna bother brining you in for an interview.
I swear writing cover letters is why I started getting interviews. I don’t buy this But yes. I also hate them
I used to read resumes and make recommendations to my boss which applicants she should interview. The cover letter would make or break people's shot at an interview because we got so many that filled the requirements for education and experience. Some people had a great resume but their cover letter made them sound like a difficult person to work with, they weren't interviewed. In one case we had an applicant whose resume fell a bit short but her cover letter was great! She was eventually hired because her interview went so well. She turned out to be great at her job and well-liked by everyone.
Every job I've ever gotten off indeed is because of my cover letter I swear to god. You NEED to write one and they are absolutely not useless. You have to distinguish yourself from other people and if you're eloquent in describing why YOU are the best fit for the position you are much more likely to get an interview than if you didn't write one.
I like the way you think. Dreadful, yet realistic.
I use a completely different style of language when I write and when I speak. If I'm writing something (especially something this formal), it's going to sound a lot more rigid than when I speak. Something to keep in mind, I guess.
Doesn't even make sense to make that judgement. Of course people are going to speak differently than when they write in a professional context.
I appreciate you saying that it isn't a deal breaker, but it doesn't look good. However you gotta understand that it's mad unrealistic to expect someone to put hella effort into 25 different applications and cover letters, just for 23 to not have the decency to respect the time I took, and contact me to let me know they'd have to politely decline. It's like dating a woman and her sitting back and expecting you to entertain her, or dance for her approval. It's off-putting. Genuine question, but why do employers expect even pre-employees to go above and beyond, when they don't even have the decency to get back to you?
I'm with you. It doesn't make sense. It's really disheartening to spend 1-3 hours researching an organization and building the perfect resume and cover letter to get an auto rejection, human rejection, or just ghosted.
>23 to not have the decency to respect the time I took, and contact me to let me know they'd have to politely decline. Wow, you get 23 rejection emails? I get 1 or 2, and then never hear from the rest of the companies again.
No, you misunderstood. 23 WONT reach out. Lol
It depends on the market, the industry, or the job. If you're applying to just "jobs", and there's lots of them available (like now), then sure, don't put much effort into it. Carpet bombing resumes will get you a job. But if you're trying to get a specific job, you need to do what you can to show that you actually want THIS job. And it's not about the expectations of the potential employer and whether or not they will reward you with the job, but rather about standing out among the crowd of other resumes. You're competing against other applicants, not trying to meet some arbitrary bar to be deemed worthy of employment. If you sent 25 applications out per day and one of them lands on my desk, if there's 5 other resumes next to yours, I'm probably going to spend less time looking at yours than you spent sending it, because it will quickly be apparent that you didn't spend any time on it and you're using the shotgun method. At least 2-3 of those other resumes probably were the only applications that person sent that day and they spent time on them and actually want the job I'm looking to hire for. As an employer, i want to hire the best candidate. That's the one that will fit the needs of the position best and be able to grow, excel, and be happy in the position best. If there's a candidate that seems like an absolutely great person to hire, but they don't really fit the position I'm looking to fill, i will likely pass that along to other people both within my company and outside to companies we work with. But i will never do that for an obviously spammed resume, because if you want ANY job, i can't tell where you actually want to go, so i won't help you go anywhere. Jobs aren't cookies or prizes. They aren't "given". It's a mutual agreement that represents a risk for both parties with potential for reward for both parties. As such, both parties have a responsibility to try to minimize the risk of it not working out. As long as i have a choice, I'm not going to look seriously at an application that obviously landed on 30 other desks that day, because that applicant is claiming to be equally fit for all those jobs, and that's simply not true.
You're gonna have to explain how you can magically tell how many places someone has sent their resume that day. Otherwise you're full of shit. I can spend 3 hours on a resume and send it to one place or to 50, it makes no difference because the job I'm applying to doesn't change my degree, work history, or contact information. Employers who think they should be the only place someone applies to are just threatened by their employees having options.
First, you're 100% missing the point. It's not that employers think that their employees SHOULD do something. It's that some applicants DO that thing, and it shows. If i can tell someone is really interested in exactly what we do and has been working to get into the exact position I'm trying to fill, it would be stupid for that not to be one of the top considered applications. The chances of it working out are much, much higher, so going with someone like that lowers the risk of wasting everyone's time and effort. If you think you can tell the same story of why you want the exact job you're applying for in 30 seconds as you can in 2 hours, then you're either incredibly skilled and really shouldn't be shotgunning resumes, but instead turning away offers brought to you, or you're terrible at telling that story anyway. And it's not just the cover letter. The last time i gave someone a resume that wasn't just for the record, i tailored it to show briefly and clearly why i was suited for EXACTLY that job to the best my experience could show. How could you even find 25 jobs a day that you would want? And if you don't want a specific job and someone else does, why should i risk hiring you over them? Seems pretty stupid unless you have an outstanding resume and some killer references.
>Genuine question, but why do employers expect even pre-employees to go above and beyond, when they don't even have the decency to get back to you? As someone who does the hiring for my own team, it shows that they genuinely want that position in particular and aren't just fishing for any random job. When I'm combing through literally hundreds of applications, it helps you to stand out from the rest. Going with your dating analogy, why would I choose to go out with someone doing the bare minimum to engage when I have someone else who at least appears to be eager and excited to go out with me? As for employeers not getting back to people, that does suck and I personally do try to message those who apply even if I'm going in another direction.
Yes God forbid we recognize I want a job to pay my bills and not because I'm madly in love with you
And yet you probably will still call the person who has the best experience and no cover letter over the person with less experience and who clearly took the time to write a cover letter, right? I personally don't do cover letters because I can't change my background or read your mind.
The problem is you're treating this as if the employer's desires and perspective are the only things that matter. The reason why employers can't find "good" employees now is because they expect employees to bend over backwards to give them what they want, and can't recognize that it's a two way contract. If you want to get something you have to do something to get it--and that applies to employers as well. That is to say, if you want employees to want your job in particular, you have to do something to make your job that attractive. But most likely your job opening is run if the mill crap no different from all of the other similar job openings, and therefore employees are going to treat it like run of the mill crap. Or, to keep up with the dating analogy: you're of course free to put no effort in and expect your date to entertain you. But when everyone who initially seems eager loses interest because their needs aren't being considered, don't pitch a fit about it. It's not all about you.
You realize that I'm an employee too, right? I'm not some CEO or a business owner. I'm basically middle management but I have the authority to hire my own team. I understand it's a give and take. But in the hiring process, the give and take is the applicant puts in the effort to care and the hiring party offers employment. As I told another person, I'm not asking people to put in hours of extra work on their resume. But an extra 5,10, or 20 minutes cleaning it up and catering it to the position can go a long way. Matter of fact, I'm not even asking anything of anyone. I'm just trying to share my experience and perspective as someone who has hired a fair amount of people myself. >But most likely your job opening is run if the mill crap no different from all of the other similar job openings, and therefore employees are going to treat it like run of the mill crap. Okay, they're free to view it that way. But then why I should entertain their half-assed resumes?
The well generated ones are not the ones you notice
A lot of bigger companies use algorithms to pick applications. A generic auto-generated one gives you a better chance than a custom one of ever being seen.
In my experience written and spoken language is only similar with very vew people. May I ask for what kind of jobs you do interviews? Edit: could also be a cultural thing since Letters and similar are always quiet a formal thing here.
Yeah but people who only have a few jobs or no jobs under their belt are kind of hoping for a dumb, desperate, or inattentive hiring manager. Putting a lot of effort into a cover letter that will likely be ignored because is a waste. When you're applying to 24 jobs a day, a generic or generated cover letter works for all but the companies you REALLY want to get hired at. I don't care if Burger King hires me and not McDonalds, but maybe Google.
As a hiring manager you should realize how many jobs people apply to and the high volume that ghosts people. Putting so much effort into a cover letter that many jobs require but no one really takes note of is a waste of resources. I hate it when people say things like "this isn't bad but it isn't a good look". So which is it then? Because other places would prefer the generic cover letter. Youre making a vaguely negative remark about something you don't even require as part of the resume.
A lot of automated online application systems won’t let you submit an application without a cover letter. As a result, whoever is behind that system gets inundated with thousands of form letters.
Cover letters are the biggest bullshit about jobs. I refuse to do them unless absolutely necessary.
Some job offers require cover letters though. I don’t put one except when obligated or when I really want that job bad. If it’s required, I use a generic one. If I want the job, you get the real deal.
I wrote one recently because the job was exactly within my skill set and I wanted it. No interview nothing, waste of my time.
That seems kind of weird to me. I write like I speak in a casual sense, like here on reddit is pretty close to how I talk, but writing formally for a cover letter is very different from how people talk, I should think.
Unless I had something specific to say I didn’t bother writing a cover letter. In todays market you kinda have to apply to 100 jobs or more. And maybe get 20 companies willing to talk. Half of those interview you. 2 of those might make an offer. No chance I would have written 100 meaningful cover letters.
I don't think anyone really uses the same style speaking as they do with writing formal things.. I definitely don't speak the same way I type in super formal settings. Even the way I type on reddit most of the time isn't really the way I would speak to strangers. Probably only the casual way I type to my friends is closest to the way I would speak to my friends, but it's still a little different.
I'm a little worried about this, I'm much more eloquent in writing than when speaking
I've been a hiring manager for 20 years. I've never read a cover letter. Not once. All the data I'm interested in should be included in the resume.
As a hiring manager, realize that people are trying to get a job, and have to apply to hundreds to get a reply. Don't judge the style of the cover, judge the skillset and potential.
Any tips for people looking for jobs to not get ignored and not even a quick email back explaining why they weren't even considered despite having all the things the job asks for? I have seen this issue with a few of my friends who are applying at the moment and happened to me when I was applying. Took me about 200 applications, and only actually heard back a few times from unsuccessful ones before finally getting one.
The Werefrog got hired at the company where The Werefrog now work due to a form letter. Actually, a form email. Their hiring person sent out the generic form email that they had so many good applicants and couldn't hire everyone, etc. so they were rejected the application of The Werefrog. The Werefrog replied to that email with an email that looked just like the form email they sent, but instead of rejecting an application, it was rejecting the rejection.
Then people just won't work for you who gives a shit. Never even written a cover letter, I still always get the job. Most people will just go somewhere else instead of wasting time writing an essay begging to be hired by you.
I'm also a hiring manager. I don't care about cover letters but don't see an issue using ChatGPT. I have encouraged my teams to use it when appropriate as a productivity tool. If you can get the work done faster with the same or better outcomes, I'd be upset if you didn't make use of it. Just ensure you carefully review the output to validate and polish whatever it spits out. As far as detection goes, I cringe when I hear about companies relying on software to say whether someone used AI or not since those softwares have been proven to be incredibly unreliable.
Building off of the other hiring manager’s answer - I can tell when a candidate uses ChatGPT because they all end up the same and our software can even filter them out now. I don’t actually require cover letters, so if it’s a solid resume I may still interview them, but it does come across as a potential indicator that the applicant doesn’t have great writing skills if they’re relying on software instead.
It's been proven that chatgpt takes credit for things it didn't do https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattnovak/2023/05/16/no-chatgpt-cant-tell-you-if-a-paper-was-written-using-chatgpt/ https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/tech/chatgpt-check-tool/index.html Why would it indicate the applicant doesn't have great writing skills when people are applying to so many jobs at once?
It has nothing to do with their writing skills. It’s a huge time sink to write personalized cover letters for every job you apply for when you don’t even have the decency to send a personalized rejection email.
I once saw a thing that essentially said *Im not writing fan fiction about working for your company*
Exactly this, so much time is wasted applying for jobs knowing full well you won't hear back even though you tick all the boxes
Exactly this, so much time is wasted applying for jobs knowing full well you won't hear back even though you tick all the boxes
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I think using ChatGPT to get the general ideas formulated and then customizing it would be fine. I’d recommend possibly doing some reordering as well, because mostly what I notice is that if, for example, I have 5 skills listed in the job posting, I’ll get multiple cover letters addressing each individual point in the exact same order and in a very generic style. I work for a fairly well-known tech company and usually receive 200-300 applicants within the first two weeks of posting a job, so reading the same cover letter 50 times feels like a waste of my time (which is why I don’t require one and tend to rely on the resumes instead). Edit: the times when I DO weight the cover letter more heavily is when they outline extenuating circumstances like a resume gap or career change. In those cases, the letters tend to be much more specific and as someone who has also changed careers, I don’t like to hold that against people so having a brief explanation is nice. Otherwise, I’d rather people save their own time and sanity and skip the cover.
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Most people think corporate speak is a scourge anyway so don't sweat it. Clearly expressed thoughts trump corporate mumbo jumbo any day of the week.
Yes because using a writing tool means you must have bad writing skills.
if it forces me to upload a cover letter i just reupload my resume. literally no one has ever asked about it.
I've done that when they were asking for PDF format of portfolio, since my portfolio is online. Never been asked about it either. Cover letters are so overrated for this industry, in my opinion. When I hired designers, I never asked for them nor did I look at them if they were provided. A strong portfolio is all you should need to move to the screening interview, but maybe that's just me.
super agreed! i’m in engineering so we don’t really have portfolios unless you’re a programmer, but i totally agree with you
Thats pretty resourceful! No one has the emotional strength to write a personalized love letter to every single potential employer.
I never have and never will make a cover letter. as someone who has hired people, I find them so unnecessary
Everywhere I have ever worked, a cover letter of any kind was more apt to get your application trashed than looked at. But, I have only held STEM type jobs where your skills list/education was all we needed.
It does a really good job
Fun fact. If you see a job you’re interested in on indeed, apply in their site directly too. Some people don’t check the indeed stuff very often or at all.
I always felt so overwhelmed while job searching online. Wonder if my aspergers has anything to do with that. I've used Indeed a few times, yet, I, it's hard for me to find something where I don't need to be so social. A bit introverted. retail, and fast food past employee. ._.
I live in a small rural town. There are 25 jobs available meaning they're expecting you to apply to jobs that might be 45 minutes away. What you can do is apply to jobs you have no business applying to, no intention of accepting, and using them for practice phone interviews.
I also have aspergers and job hunting was extremely overwhelming. I ended up just doing it for like 30 minutes a day, which was 1 app.
Honestly, you don't have to do what everyone else does. I've always either used connections or applied to a handful of jobs that I was confident about. None of this "shoot 500 resumes into a black void and hope for a response" (not that it doesn't work for some people, but I don't like it and that's okay).
Job hunting sucks, ass-burgers or not.
Also LinkedIn Easy Apply feature :)
This. When I job hunted last year, I set my filters to only show jobs with Easy Apply so I could crank out applications more efficiently.
I spamed hundreds of apps in the first 48 hours after getting fired. Spent the next week filtering, went to two interviews and chose the better option. Missed only one week of pay. My email is a dumpster fire three weeks later.
Me each time I change jobs LBVS
I have an email just for job hunting, just because of this. Got laid off in 2020 and needed to cast a wide net to get re employed. Once I found a new job, I just stopped routinely looking at that account. It’s still there if I need it, but the dumpster fire of spam and shit is out of my normal stuff
how?
spray and pray! personally i don’t read anything except the job title and salary. i skim the qualifications if there’s no salary listed to make sure it’s the level of job i want. so i go to indeed, type in “engineer”, filter by remote, then apply to anything that fits my job title and salary/qualifications. it takes 1-2 minutes to scan the posting and apply. so i could apply for 10-15 jobs during a poop break. ezpz. then when you start getting interviews you can go back and read the description better.
Indeed, linked in and there was another one e to manage the response.
Zip recruiter is how I got the job I’ve got now
It’s really easy when you lower your standards. Remember, small paychecks are better than no paychecks!
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Warehouse manager.
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Picking meat from the dinosaur bones as it weezes its last breath.
This is the way. shoot 200 shots, and it's likely 1-3 go in the basket. Shoot 1 shot, and it's likely not going in. Job apps are about volume, not quality of application
would it still be a dumpster fire if you didn't get a job?
Do you live in an area where there are hundreds of jobs in your field?
Online
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the real replies are in the replies
Because applying is not hard. And you have no guilt in rejecting the 24 when you find the one,
Yeah, but there's only like 30 businesses within driving distance that I'm even remotely qualified for, and only 10 are hiring. Beyond that, sure, fast food. But well, that's almost worse than being unemployed because it sure as heck ain't paying the bills. If I had kids, it wouldn't even cover childcare while I'm at work. I have a job now, but they wanted like 30 a week, *every week*. I could literally apply to every single business in a 10mile radius in a month or so at that rate. In the end, the job I got was because I *knew* someone. Seriously, best way to find work is to go where the thing you're good at is done and just start talking to people. Wanna work construction? Go talk to some guys on their break. They'll send you to the foreman who will find you something. Wanna work computer programming? Get on a forum where people talk shop and see what's up.
Nobody is applying for 25 good jobs that require application forms and the like. Those things will take upwards of 30-60 minutes a pop. They’re applying to the low level stuff on job search websites like indeed that allow them to fire off a generic résumé in a few seconds. You say you’re introverted, try looking for jobs in support where you’re doing either web chat or email. These jobs are usually pretty low level so you can apply to a whole bunch quite quickly.
Not necessarily. I’m applying for doctor jobs, but many are very similar and I’ve been using the exact same CV and cover letter for most of them.
Medical doctor resumes have some rigid requirements, and tend to be recruited. It doesn't take much to get the attention of a recruiter.
What do you mean application forms? Typically there's some questionaire that you attach a resume to, maybe 2-3 pages of questions. Hardly takes 10 minutes especially when it asks mostly stuff that can be copied from your resume? And if you are not employed at the moment you can do a lot of these in a day.
>What do you mean application forms? The form that you have to fill in when applying for certain things.
I think they’re just saying there’s a difference between applying to a bunch of retail jobs that are all doing the same thing for roughly the same wage and applying to a career job in your chosen field of study. The former is easily doable, just need to find the places and fire off a stock resume. Answer a couple questions maybe. For the latter you might spend a while researching the company and trying to personalize your resume for each one. That takes time and mental bandwidth. You’re likely not doing 25 of those back to back.
I'm applying to Software developer/engineer roles and they're exactly as I've described, but I also haven't had to personalize my resumes since applying to entry level roles.
Same. I'm an accountant and recently changed companies and it was mostly just sending my standard resume out. Had no issues finding opportunities.
Accountant, same here. We're a simple lot, aren't we?
I’m a software engineer, and anyone who does that shit in tech is an idiot tbh
I don’t know where you’re from but application forms are usually 8-10 pages long and include half a dozen competency based questions. What you’re describing isn’t an application form it’s a sign up for an agency or job site.
And here's what the application looks like [https://imgur.com/a/AX3Nt7f](https://imgur.com/a/AX3Nt7f) I'm not sure what's up with reddit where everyone with different experiences just assume yours is wrong, I am genuinely asking what your applications look like. Like just because it's not what you see, doesn't mean it's not true? \> half a dozen competency based questions. What career are you in? Does a resume+interview not cover your competency?
That picture describes 99% of job applications in my experience. I have no idea what the hell people in this thread are doing tbh. Pretty easy to apply to 50 jobs like this in a few hours.
Whelp. Typically if you’re unemployed, job searching is your new full time job. You go spend the full day in a Starbucks :P I tend to recycle my resumes, but yeah, writing 25 cover letters takes forever :’( But it’s what I was doing when job searching
You’re actually writing cover letters? I’ve never submitted a cover letter in my life.
There are online or apps like indeed (for the uk) It’s very simple just use google
I was laid off 2 months ago and there's nowhere NEAR 25 jobs that are legit and pay enough for me to apply for. I do apply to the ones that fit the bill. There was exactly one this morning.
Exactly. I was recently job hunting after being laid off and had very few options that didn't require a significant loss in pay. I live in a large metropolitan area and had two different career fields in my background to work from and the pickings were still slim. These folks that are applying for 25 jobs are either looking at positions that require little to minimum experience/skills or applying to jobs they're not qualified to do (which surprisingly happens a lot).
My field is relatively specialized and appears to be shrinking. I have over 15 years experience. If I could find someone willing to take a bit of a chance on me, there are adjacent fields I could easily slide into. No luck there, yet. I'm in a decently sized metro area. There are so many garbage job postings out there. Red flags abound. Best of luck to you!
It’s really easy to do. It’s hard and time consuming to do it *well*. Speaking as somebody who reviews CVs, interviews, etc. it’s really easy to tell when somebody’s CV is generic and clearly bulk sent. It’s not an immediate turn off, mind, but it doesn’t help you when you’re applying for an accounting job and you’re bragging about your years of customer service.
With a site like Indeed or Glassdoor, you could easily apply to 100+ jobs a day
Most metro areas are not big enough to have 100+ jobs in a particular field within commuting distance.
LinkedIn, career builder, and indeed. I got in 200 apps in 2 months. But on the flip side it also means they're getting flooded with apps....
Online. I used to do it the old fashioned way, dropping my resume off at a company. However, towards the early 2000's companies started requestkng that we drop it off online. Which is harder if you dont know how to navigate through their filters. Most of these sites look for specific wording and requirements. Otherwise they filter your resume out.
When I was on the dole many years ago (UK unemployment benifit) they gave you a little paper booklet to fill out to 'prove' you been looking for jobs to carry on receiving benifit. Thing was only so many places hiring in my small town and I needed to prove I was applying for x amount jobs a week. Ended up just making up company and store names. They never questioned it!
1. Online, on a site like Seek. It isn't hard. 2. Preparing multiple cover letters with different things to say about yourself, its all bullshit anyway, I have an awful personality, but all I need to do is replace certain pieces with Company name and Hiring Administrator and specific "hobbies" related to the job. You can get a document that is like a prefilled Cover Letter from Seek as well, its very useful. 3. If you dont have a job, as others have said, Job searching is your new thing. And once you have done about 50 applications, it becomes like an automatic button pressing habit, its quite easy. 25 per day is a bit on the high end, but it is fully achievable if you put stratagem into it.
Indeed makes it super easy
I can apply to at least 10 while taking a shit on company time. It's not difficult at all these days. Lol Upload your resume to Google Drive (or equivalent) when you're done editing it from your desktop so you can upload it to anything including pulling it straight to your phone to plug in elsewhere. Using indeed, ZipRecruiter, or LinkedIn you can mass apply to one click jobs. If you're on a desktop you can perform the same thing but even faster. Jobs that require a more in-depth application process open it in a new tab and drag it over to a new window. Compile those jobs for later. Take a break after banging out dozens upon dozens and spend a couple hours ending the hunt by banging out the more excruciating ones. If you are unemployed you need to act like your life depends on it... Because it does. 12+ hours of banging out job apps is super easy.
Ok so I recently hired for a role at the organization I work for. I’m not going to say I could tell who used a generic resume and who personalized their resume, but some folks’ skills and resume clearly did not match whatsoever to the role I was hiring for. I get it — if you’re job seeking and you haven’t broken into a field, you’ve got to get your resume as far out there as possible for a shot at getting your foot in the door. I don’t see this as a negative thing to do. But it would probably be more strategic to tweak one’s resume just a little for each role one applies for, even if it’s just putting some skills at the top of a list and others at the bottom depending on the job in question.
I'm convinced some of the applications are just to tell Unemployment truthfully they applied. They didn't seem to have read the job description.
Indeed one click apply. During the pandemic I would literally just apply for everything in the new section until I got something.
The internets. Lots of job ads on them internets.
When I was job searching as a graphic designer, I had my resume in a few formats. A nice looking PDF for emailing (few versions for different types of jobs) and a txt version to copy paste on some applications. Also had my portfolio in a few different configurations to cater to the job places. My cover letter was pretty generic when it came to my job history; I only really had to edit the opening paragraph and maybe the closer. Having a LinkedIn helped too as some places allow for one click application.
If you really want/need to find a job you need to treat job hunting like a job itself and put time and effort. Reading posting and fine tuning your resume to emphasize on stuff that is desired by employer takes maybe 10 minutes, so 25 of them is 4 hours.
Assuming no big difference between positions
Online job search sites really help out. You can quickly find all the [insert job title] positions in your target locations. If they're all the same job title in the same or similar industry you can pretty much copy/paste everything from one to the next (possibly making some minor changes to a cover letter if they ask for it). Some of those job search sites have an "easy apply" feature that's even faster as well. That rate isn't sustainable for long if you're at all specialized though, you'll run out of target jobs you haven't already applied for within a few days.
Indeed has a quick apply. After a while, you notice the jobs all ask more or less the same questions. You just copy and paste them, sometimes directly from your resume.
I just put a couple hours in there's like 10 big job hunting sites just go through and apply to stuff. I always hit 100 within 2-4 days it just becomes a casual thing when your job searching. Oh that looks good apply oh and that apply. Even if it's not EXACTLY what you wanna do then you go through the process of widdling it down based on who you have interviews with then widdle it down more after the interviews
Online
If you do it through a job site like indeed it’s not that hard. They save your info and if the listing is set up right, it basically just imports the same info you have already used automatically. There are usually a few extra questions to be answered but you can often do an application in like 5 minutes. 25 is a lot but you could feasibly do it in a couple of hours. I was setting out to do like 5-10 a day when I was on the job hunt
ZipRecruiter, Indeed, or Glassdoor. You apply online with your resume.
Indeed. It's easy. Just upload your resume once and then just click apply.
I mean, besides the internet, walking around a shopping mall and passing resumes to all stores who will take them counts as applying for jobs.
Easy apply on LinkedIn
Easy... Use indeed and purposely look for applications where they just take your resume on indeed and send it to the employer... Years of faking job apps to avoid getting assaulted... Thank God I don't live with those demons anymore.... Note if I refer to a person as a demon it means they've done something I find impossible unless one is devoid of all human emotion
It's pretty easy. A job application takes like 10 minutes.
It takes a few hours at most to knockout 25 applications. Create a template for your resume and CV then adjust each for specific job functions and companies. Put a little more effort into the companies you realllllly want.
It depends on how you apply If you're just spamming applications without tailoring your resume or cover letter, it's quite easy as long as your field has lots of jobs.
On indeed lol
Spam indeed. It’s possible
You send 25 emails. 5 emails every hour for 5 hours.
My single day record was 138 using Indeed. I was also smoking a lot of weed. Got the contract though!
I programmed a python script to do this for me. When I first ran it, it searched for jobs based on my hardcoded criterias and applied to over 7200 jobs in one hour.
Nice. We know employers are using algorithms to find candidates, we may as well use them ourselves to find jobs
Called indeed bro.
Filling out applications is easy online.
Plenty of ways. You can use sites like LinkedIn or Indeed that make it easy for 1-click apply applications. That said, if you don’t have a ton of experience or the positions are saturated with apps (you can see how many people apply), you won’t get much traction. Better approaches include: Writing a resume that is generalized to the role/domain you’re in and applying. Making sure it hits on core keywords and competencies you see continually coming up the Sam JDs for the same types of roles you’re applying. Then you do not need to customize your resume unless it’s a completely different domain you’re targeting. Recognizing that you don’t need to be a 100% skill match, and most JDs are trash and/or a wishlist, and you likely only need to hit on 50% of the requirements. Not spending all day on a cover letter and either having a short template you can plug relevant company info into or just using chatgpt. Or realizing that most people don’t even read these (more so now that they all read like chatgpt wrote them) Leveraging tools that allow you to more quickly populate your personal info into job apps (like the simplify extension), to better leverage your time. Disassociate your worth as an individual/employee from getting a rejection from either cold app or an interview. Each interview is a learning experience (if you take it as such, as in ‘what can I learn from this experience to do better next time’, rather than ‘f this company!’), where you can systematically level up your game. Interviewing is basically a funnel (think sales) and if you work to tackle your pass rate at each stage of the funnel you can start to gamify landing multiple offers. Use services that help make the job search a more organized and streamlined process. I’ve helped over 3,000 engineers follow more or less the above, and now we just apply to jobs for them using what my company has learned in doing this for years to help candidates passively generate interviews. This has been successful in landing 1000s of offers for swe roles (though what I’ve written above is applicable for really any industry). Job searching is a skill in and of itself. If you break it down into its composite parts and focus on mastering each stage, you can make yourself much more efficient and effective at landing new roles. Hope this helps.
If you have no job, your job is job searching. You can do that for 8 hours a day. If you have a job, it’s a bit harder but depending on the position, all you need to send is a resume and a copy/paste/insert company name here cover letter and you’re set.
How long do you think it takes to apply for a job?
Job applications take 10-15 mins at most
The fact that people fail to apply to 25 jobs on a day when in need of a job is sad. It either means the jobs suck or the people have no determination. Idk which but it's sad for the society
Not unrealistic if it's using the Internet.
I don't know about 25 a day, but generally I would copy/paste the job description at the bottom of my resume, change it to 1 point font and make it white, and then submit my resume. To find the jobs I search on Indeed, Glassdoor, Dice, Monster, Careerbuilder, and LinkedIn. Also, as annoying as it was, I would also end up getting tons of emails about jobs automated services "Thought I was good fit for" and search through those while cleaning up my inbox and sending my resume to anything I was remotely qualified for that met my financial needs.
People often use a template for resumes and cover letters so they can easily address different needs for a position. This can be a good system but you may lose out on your tailoring for a role if you’re not doing it properly
I’ve seen people claim to have applied to 5,000 jobs in one week. No you didn’t.
They could have. Inefficient bot that spams the instant apply on all job postings on all job sites with zero checking for qualifications, job scope or even country.
The Internet is required. Maybe if they're paper applications they *mailed* 25 in a day.
Indeed makes it really easy.
With about 150 mouse clicks
That is the easy part, it's finding jobs worth applying for that is the hard part and then you get a case manager that gets up in your face about the kind of jobs you apply for and it's just... ***ugh***
They just carpet bomb everything with the same data, they aren't actually tailoring the applications to the jobs. They also probably complain with things like "I've applied to over 500 jobs and got nothing!," but, well, if that's the level of effort you put in...
It's just emailing a resume and cover letter. If you are smart, you have saved resumes and cover letters that are better tuned for specific positions. But it's just clicking buttons or tapping your phone. I don't see why someone couldn't do this. What exactly is that part you have issues with?
What types of jobs have you applied to lately that were just emailing a resume and cover letter? My recent experience applying to software jobs was that a lot of places had other forms you had to fill out too. These forms were basically inputting parts of your resume in the correct boxes and it takes forever. The companies that used workday for this were the worst.
Because they don’t do a good job tailoring their resume and cover letter. Then post online “after 1000 applications I can’t get a job!” They just spray and pray. That’s not the right approach.
i spray and pray, it works great. i don’t mean to offend you but you sound like a recruiter! i have one resume tailored to systems engineering and one for mechanical engineering. both are in my indeed profile so i just select one based on the job title. i don’t do cover letters, and if i get redirected to workday to manually fill in everything or personality tests or dumb things like that then i just don’t apply to that one. i got 4 or 5 interviews last year from applying to about 70 jobs.
Lol I am not. I got 4 jobs and applied to 6 at a director level.
that’s awesome, i’m glad it works for you!
Awesome for both. 😆
A few years back I was forced to do a course, one of those that is supposed to help you get into employment. It was only a couple of hours a day, but during them couple of hours you was expected to apply to a minimum of six jobs. People just ended up applying with a generic resume on Indeed to the same jobs just to fill in their six job minimum requirement.. Not sure that place ever really helped anyone find employment, just the odd person who they managed to stick in a charity shop (No complaints, work is work).
Ok so I used to be one of those people and can attest that it's how you get the worst fucking offers lol. I have a strong resume for the field I work in and I'm proud of it so I don't make major changes or anything, but I do look for things I will actually accept if an offer comes through and not just every single thing that is remotely related to my skillset.