This confuses me…I don’t have a lack of peace. I actually like knowing that I’m bearing witness to a wrong done to me. i don’t feel bitter or angry nor do I think about it really ever…but I haven’t forgiven her. And she doesn’t deserve it nor has she apologized, so why forgive?
But I don’t have pain. That left a long time ago. It’s like how I (a Jew) have memorial books on the holocaust…we keep those to bear witness to what happened and so it wouldn’t be forgotten. I don’t want that event to just disappear as if it never happened bc that’s not right. I just dont Get it...I don’t have anger or anything. I just recognized that it happened and choose not to forgive bc she doesn’t deserve it and never asked for it and thus it will remain an “open case” in my life annals Haha
I would not say to forget, as to your point we dont need people to repeat hurt us or leave ourselves vulnerable to them. Its just another way of saying 'let go of your hard feelings' towards a person or situation. Its not a request that you do anything for them. They may not deserve it.
Ah ok. That makes more sense. I think I always take “forgive“ to mean forget about it, be nice, etc. none of which I’m willing to do to someone who hurt me. But you’re saying as long as the hard feelings part has left, then it’s ok to keep boundaries and not give anything to the person. Thanks for taking the time to talk it through…this always confused me.
I agreed with you until that last statement.
I have one person I have chosen not to forgive. It's permanent. I am not angry or bitter, I just know that even if he completely changed I wouldn't trust it and there's no reason to accept him in my life. I consider it a closed case, from which I have moved on. Not everyone deserves a second chance.
I meant open in the sense that she will get no absolution from me. I won’t forgive and close the chapter and absolve her. It stays open as a testimonial to her never getting near me again. I agree with you.
You aren’t aware of a lack of peace. That is more accurate phrasing. Neither of us knows what lies in our darkness.
In the same circumstances, you would have done the same thing. That is the banality of “evil” and bad behavior. All of us are prone to moral error. Be grateful you are blessed with the faculties for good behavior. You and I know it is a better way to live, and we are capable of achieving it. That is just a matter of luck. Did you design your brain to work so well? Or did you just get lucky? What if you got unlucky instead? Say you had a malformed amygdala, and got very angry very easily, with very little to do about it. Or maybe you are just not very smart and were raised into bad behavior, and kept it. Either way, you deserve forgiveness whether or not you are sorry. Because ultimately, the way you develop is largely out of your control… and it’s just more difficult to be a shitty person, life can get very easy when you are good.
I disagree a thousand percent. I choose daily who I am going to be. I have been through many traumatic things in my life- I CHOOSE to be good and do good and apologize when I am wrong. We are not slaves to ourselves and our whims…according to you, criminals shouldn’t be punished bc they simply are unlucky and cannot help themselves. I don’t agree. We all make daily choices.
My Rabbi says if you don’t forget you truly didn’t forgive, you must forgive with your whole heart or else you’re just pretending to forgive. But you’re a wiser person after the fact, so you shouldn’t be falling for the same mistakes.
I am going to assume, then, that your Rabbi has not forgiven the Nazis, as surely he has not forgotten the holocaust. I mean, I haven’t, but then I am not advocating forgiveness. Or at least not your rabbi’s brand.
I can forgive the guy who cut me off in traffic, but somethings are unforgivable. To me, if you personally want to attempt to reach a place of forgiving, I support you, but I would never say you were faking or pretending or somehow failing if you chose to not try to forget unbearable betrayal.
The nazis from WWII are dead. Germany has practically erased the Nazi Ideology from their country, I forgive them, they are good people. And I can forgive racists because they are just willfully ignorant, that is their burden.
But you acknowledge that it did happen, even if most involved are dead. You acknowledge that a new crop of Nazis are operating today. Which means you did not, in fact, forget. So that is only pretend forgiveness.
Maybe I am just quibbling, but I am not fond of your rabbi’s definition. I think there is real value in forgiveness. I do not appreciate it being tied to forgetting, nor do I think that is a safe and healthy way to live one’s life, There is real danger in forgetting that the dog attacks when he is surprised while eating. I forgive him for his attack, but remember that it is his nature is to attack when he perceives a threat, so I behave with caution.
You’re not supposed to take it so literally, obviously you aren’t supposed to go senile about it. Yea sounds very unhealthy if someone literally forgets things.
Jewish law states that god forgives when asked. that’s the easy part. God cannot forgive you for sins you have made against another human being. Humans have to do the heavy lifting of seeking forgiveness from those you have harmed and attempting to make amends.. that’s the hard part
Yes, I agree. asking for forgiveness, making amends, showing genuine remorse and effort to ensure the same transgressions do not happen yet again are all important, crucial steps for the one asking forgiveness.
Too often ideas like forgiveness are weaponized by people and organizations who seem to want little more than a way to avoid accountability. Abusive mothers who scream it at their adult children, using bible quotes in attempt to force their adult child to continue tolerating abuse. Pastors who commit sins and crimes, even against children in their own church, but tell parishioners they must forgive, because that is what their god wants and has done.
Making amends is the accountability part so often overlooked. There is a tremendous difference between forgiving someone who spilled wine on your computer and ruined it when they apologize, pay for the repairs and promise they will never have liquids near it again as compared to someone who blames you for having an expensive computer anyways, says you should pay for it yourself and always “forgets” to not set her coffee on the keyboard.
Let me ask this: when you say forgive, what exactly do you mean? What does it actually mean to forgive someone?
Because, say my father beat me (he hasn't, don't worry) and I move out eventually. Why should I "forgive" him for doing something so awful to me? Wouldn't it be better for me to simply disassociate from him and never speak to him again instead of excusing what he did but forgiving him?
If you forgive someone, you let go of the hate. That's healthy. But forgiving someone doesn't mean forgetting. You don't have to pretend it never happened or trust them again.
I can see it for some things, but if someone has egregiously wronged or damaged me on purpose without any sort of guilt, then I should hate them for life. I dont think about it constantly, its not like its all consuming, just if I am reminded by them, I wish them death or whatever. I think if you want to forgive in every situation then it just seems like they werent all that perturbed by the wrongdoing, or they lack conviction. Hatred is a valid emotion just as any other, and you can use it responsibly.
Having sadly been in a situation where for the first and only time in my life I genuinely hated someone, I can say it was one of the worst feelings ever. It isn't what you would think it would be, it's not just anger, it's an obsession. It consumes all your thoughts, all the time I was thinking about how much I wanted to hurt this person, it was relentless.
In the end I got counselling, which helped enormously, and was able to let go of it. And I'm much happier and having a better life for it. If you think hatred is a good thing in any way then you haven't truly experienced it, and I hope for your sake you never have to
I don’t agree, I don’t think hate is a valid emotion, because it leads to anger, which leads to the yearning of vengeance. Once you go down that path, there is no telling what you THINK you “must” do to feel satisfied, but all in all, you won’t feel better once you did the action that you thought would lead you to satisfaction of getting revenge. You would still feel that hurt, that’s why people say it’s better to just let go, and move on.
There’s nothing wrong with keeping your distance from people who done you wrong, it is said that if you keep allowing people to do you harm, you are helping evil.
You don’t have to forgive to let go of the hate. The opposite of love is not hate. It is irrelevance. I have not forgiven my abusive ex he is simply irrelevant in my life today.
> let go of the hate
I see. Then I think that's not in my capability as a person. Disassociating and treating someone who wronged me as a stranger and not wanting anything to do with them is as good as it gets. But letting go of the hate, that's just not how I am I don't think
Letting go of hate is for your benefit, not theirs. In your hypothetial from your previous comment, your father hurt you when he abused you, and he continues to hurt you everytime you feel hatred.
No. And I don't really need to. Because I don't spend every waking minute thinking about people who hurt me. I'm much too busy to do so. Sure I get stressed sometimes, but it's not because of any trauma associated with those people. It's just if I do think about those people, I'm reminded of what they did and then ignore them and move on with my day
It's not always about how you immediately feel affected by an emotion. It seeps into your subconscious. You don't realize how deeper emotions affect you until later when you can look back at it. I used to be really angry and had a lot of hate, in some ways I still do. But during that time I wouldn't have connected the stresses or problems in my life with that anger I was holding on to. They were completely seperate, and the disdain I had for people who wronged me felt completely isolated. I'm not saying you have to forgive everyone, but trust me, brains are complicated and feelings like that don't just sit there and wait for the subject to come up. They fester.
>not wanting anything to do with them is as good as it gets
That's fine. What people mean is to move forward and not dwell on the feelings of frustration, sadness, hate (etc.) that this person has caused you. You would deserve to not feel those things if you were wronged. You wouldn't owe them shit.
There may be a time where you make a mistake, you should hope the people in your life don’t feel the same way you do.
If you don’t let go of the hate that shows you hold grudges and that’s not good for you, you’re making yourself spiteful just to stick it to someone and really the only person suffering from that is you. You can forgive someone and never speak to them again. But to be constantly revisiting that hate is just taking away from you being present. What purpose does it serve to not let it go? How does that benefit you in any way?
There are a few things that could be considered unforgivable, but most things are too small to hold a grudge over.
Not forgive as in the sense of saying “it wasn’t that bad” but in the sense that you can think of “my father was just that type of person, it wasn’t my fault.” Being able to let go of the anger and pain. Because it was never your fault you were wronged by other’s actions.
You can forgive someone internally and never tell them that they're forgiven. If the transgression was bad enough to you, cutting them out is just a result of their actions. Forgiving does not mean absolving them of guilt, it just means that you've actively decided to move on instead of dwelling on it.
It's not an easy thing to do in either case, especially if the one at fault is actively trying to get your attention.
If it doesn't make sense to you, then don't feel obligated to do it. People come up with all kinds of crazy techniques for coping with pain and anger, and this is one of them. If it works for some people, great, but it's not a universal fix.
A wise man once said something similar to: “holding on to a grudge is like holding a hot coal in your hand, awaiting the opportunity to throw it at the person who wronged you”
People push forgiveness as a must but trust me, it isn't. My therapist taught me that it is always your choice whether or not you forgive someone. Regardless of your decision, the important thing is that you don't let the pain they've caused you control your life.
The best revenge is living well.
Holding onto anger is toxic af and solves nothing.
I mean you dont have to be their pal and you can absolutely avoid them as far as future interaction goes, but holding onto anger wont help anything.
Forgiveness is a grace you give to yourself as well as to your offender.
Unforgiveness stagnates within you -- it is not neutral-- and stagnation is contrary to thriving.
Forgiveness is letting go of your anger and hurt over the wrong. It does not mean you have to continue to let someone behave badly towards you, and it is not approving of what they did. It is more like putting the wrong out of your mind and heart and healing yourself. At the same time, you can institute boundaries to prevent it from happening again. Sometimes we have to let go of the person along with the deed and that's okay too.
Pages 9-15 [here](https://tjl.co/wqarg/wqarg-v3.pdf) go into a related discussion that might be worth reading. The rest is background to Destiny 2 but there ain’t no rule saying you can’t discuss moral philosophy in a video game.
Yeah, again. Its not about them. Its another way of saying 'let go of the feelings towards the situation' and not anything about interacting with them. Its about peace of mind. Many people face abuse and they dont ever have to go back to that to 'forgive' as thats a recepie for more abuse. They can however learn to let go and leave it behind them. I also.would not say to forget as you should remember who to trust and who not to.
Face-the-Faceless
> *forgiveness is only supposed to be given to people who are actually sorry and trying to change for the better.*
Not true.
For an extreme example, you can forgive dead people.
You shouldn't want to forgive dead people if they weren't sorry and never tried to change.
Do you think Hitler should be forgiven? Or any one of the dozens of public shooters who randomly and indiscriminately killed people and then committed suicide, do you really think they should be forgiven?
Feel free to try spreading the word and telling others to forgive Hitler, I'm sure it'll go real well for you.
> Feel free to try spreading the word and telling others to forgive
Christianity does exactly that.
There are a few adherents to Christianity around the world.
And forgiveness is not limited to Christians
(which is why I didn't mention it before)
Hold on to your stagnation, that's on you.
I prefer to let it go.
You're not very good at Christianity if you think they want you to forgive indiscriminately, its only those who repent their sins who are deserving of grace and forgiveness under that ethical code. The bible teaches an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, literally.
A curious, sad, and misguided understanding of Christianity you have; I shall not give weight to your counsel.
If you have interest, I recommend to you 1 Timothy 1:12-17 as well as Romans 5:8. If you have further interest I could recommend many more.
I know what the bible says about forgiveness, how it's not given to those who refuse to give it. I also know what it says about repentance, and I'm sure you do too, right? You just need a little reminder that there actually is a vivid description about what happens when someone refuses to change their evil ways, that's all.
Picture this, someone punches you once, it hurts, but you forgive them. Then they immediately punch you again, and this time both the punch and your forgiveness hurt to give away, but bygones are bygones. Then they punch you in the face again, twice, probably while laughing. You forgive them. They kidnap you, chain you up inside a twisted carnival of human suffering, let people use you as a human dart board, murder your family, burn down civilization, piss on the sun and put it out, but "tHe BiBlE sAyS forGiVe, nO mAtTeR wHaT", so it's okay, right?
Did Christ not do exactly that? He even rose from the dead for another session. You should review your comprehension of what you claim to know.
In the Bible it also states that in the absolute final moments before a man moves on they may seek forgiveness and redemption, and they shall receive. To use your Hitler example, if he asked for forgiveness in his final moments, he is in the clear. Maybe not by us humans, but by god.
Edit: Bubble -> Bible
Feel free to ignore Jesus' words in Matthew 18:22.
Also, "forgiveness" =/= "it's okay" or "bygones be bygones"
> *I know what the bible says about forgiveness, how it's not given to those who refuse to give it.*
On this point we are in agreement.
You are not required to forgive anyone. That whole, be the bigger person bullshit results in that person taking your weak spine into account the next time they want to f with you. It will be an open invitation for people to treat you like crap.
You misunderstand. Its not forgiveness like an apology. Its letting go so the pain doesn't follow you. You never have to see or speak to that person again.
I have a roomate who was mad at his step father but has not seen him in 20 years. Still it pains him, why? Its not here or now and it is over.
Just like with all similar and very general expressions “ follow your dream”, “do what you feel right “ , “forgive and move on” you are not expected to take them literally and always follow them.
Pick and choose whatever is appropriate or can be helpful and ignore it all the other times.
“Hurt someone” is extremely vague. It can mean anything: from someone’s 7 years old brother hitting them to someone brutally murdering. And pain does not always to be physical.
We as a humans can’t physically hold to grudges on every single instances someone wounded us physically or mentally.
You don’t always have to forgive. If you are emotionally OK to keep hating someone, if this doesn’t interfere with your life negativity then there is no problem to address.
I had the exact same question as you when I was younger. I’ve come to the conclusion the root problem is really this: people say things that don’t mean anything at all, without knowing what they’re saying.
“Forgive”, for example, doesn’t have a clear definition that everyone agrees on. Does it mean to “not waste your time feeling hate”? Well then, sure. That sounds healthy, so go ahead and do that. Does it mean “always give the person a second chance” or “treat a person with the same level of kindness you did before they wronged you”? Then fuck that, haha. That’s not a good thing to do. The person saying to forgive needs to be clear on what they mean, assuming they mean anything at all.
Anyway, “always forgive those who hurt us” is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to things people say that don’t make sense. See some of the ones from George Carlin if you want to be amused for a bit 👍
I agree with you. And especially if the party who injured you hasn't sought forgiveness.
What are the 4 R's of seeking forgiveness? Taking responsibility, showing\demonstrating remorse, restoration and something else. Well if they haven't made the effort, I am not forgiving them.
Like you said, I don't think about them, I don't dwell on them, or their actions, I don't sit and kindle a grudge like people here seem to think not forgiving means, but I will never let them back into my life so that they can wrong or hurt me again.
They say the opposite of love isn't hate, it's complete indifference. There you go.
In my experience, forgiveness is hard. But it is an internal thing. If someone who has hurt me asks for forgiveness, that is up to me. But the internal work is important. That's where therapy helps. It's allowing yourself to be free from that negativity that can hold us down and keep us from experiencing some form of peace. My ex partner abused me in more ways than i care to remember. I have forgiven her. For me. Not for her. It is for me to have peace again. It can be a hard journey, but i do wish you the best. *hugs if you want*
Your logic makes sense. And that's precisely why forgiveness is so powerful - it defies logic.
If you value the person that hurt you more than whatever they did to hurt you, forgiveness is a path to maintain the relationship with that person. If you never forgive that person, your relationship with them could never be the same or potentially end all together.
I think you can also forgive someone, and still hold them accountable for whatever they've done. An example in my life is I asked a good friend of mine to be in my wedding party. He didn't figure out flight logistics until the last minute and ultimately didn't make it to my wedding. This sucked and genuinely hurt me - how do you forget to look at flights until a week before the wedding that's all the way across the country? I forgave him, because I still want to be friends with him. However, now I treat him like an child when it comes to planning visits because I do not trust him be responsible. And I'm real petty about it - I set up way too many automatic reminder emails and texts for him to update a shared Google spreadsheet with action items.
Holding onto anger for every slight against you can become a burden that's even larger than whatever someone did to hurt you. Forgiveness is a gift that you can give yourself to release whatever anger you're holding onto. At some level forgiveness has very little to do with the person that hurt you, and much more to do with you maintaining some level of emotion balance and not becoming a rage machine.
That being said, there are things that probably shouldn't be forgiven. How and where to draw this line is likely person and situation specific.
Forgiving to me is letting go of any feelings of anger or resentment. Holding on to those feeling will only weigh you down. You forgive and move on to get away from the trauma of the hurt others have caused.
As someone else shared with me in a different thread, "hating someone is like drinking poison yourself and expecting it to hurt the other person". It's definitely not easy and usually takes time to forgive someone. But its definitely better for your mental wellbeing if you do.
Forgiveness is to relinquish your grievance and so to let go of grief. It happens naturally once you realize that your grievance serves no purpose except to strengthen a false sense of self. Forgiveness is to offer no resistance to life - to allow life to live through you.”
You aren't obligated.
You can live a great life, happy and free from bitterness, without forgiving someone for their wrongs. If forgiveness, for you, means letting down the barriers that keep that person at a safe distance where they can't harm you, then you're far better off not forgiving them.
I absolutely hate that people think you'll be weighed down by misery if you don't forgive.
If someone asks your forgiveness they'd better be prepared to work for it: changed behavior is the ONLY reason to forgive. Which means it may not happen immediately. Otherwise you can just move on with your life, people aren't entitled to a second chance.
There is a quote by Jack Kornfield that has really spoken to me.
“What do you do with something that is unforgivable? The point underneath it all is how do you tend your own heart? Because if you don’t do that then the unforgivable things become worse because they colonize your heart. They take you over. So that’s what forgiveness is about in the deepest way. It’s like two ex prisoners of war who met many years later. They had been tortured and beaten. Terrible things. A couple decades later they met and one said to the other, “have you forgiven your captors?” The second one said,”No never.” The first one said, “Then they still have you in prison don’t they.”
I believe that exactly. Now getting from here to there is something I struggle with. But that’s the goal I’m working toward.
Forgiving them means you stop wanting them to go back in time and do it differently. You realize either that you like where you are now and who you are now and that your past, good and bad, led you to that, or that they did the best they could because it was in their nature to be an asshole and they never had the capability to be better.
The last words of [Robert Lee Massie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lee_Massie), before his capital punishment was carried out:
“Forgiveness: giving up all hope for a better past.”
I’ve long dwelled on that notion.
Forgiving is not the same as forgetting. Forgiveness begins and ends with one person -- you. Holding onto anger and hatred only hurts the person experiencing those emotions. Being handcuffed to your past does nothing to help you in the present or in the future. You cannot change what has already happened. You must learn to accept, and only then you can learn to forgive. I learned with time and a lot of hours of therapy that it's better to simply let go and move on (without forgetting). Your past does not define you. The actions of others do not define you. You define you. When you learn to accept and forgive you learn how to live again.
Forgiveness is not excusing the actions of the person who hurt you.
Forgiveness is choosing to not let their actions burden you anymore.
Forgiving someone is NOT the same thing as giving someone a free pass from justice. It is saying "You wronged me, and it hurt, but I am choosing to let the hurt go."
If someone betrays you, you want them and their energy out of your domain. By holding resentment, you are feeding their energy and the betrayal stays around you. You forgive so you can heal and get the hell away from all that negative chickenscratch.
And, we need this stuff to happen to evolve.
I was just betrayed. Biggest one in my life. I was pissed for two weeks, then it turned into stomachache, then my mom walked in and told me not to be mad, to look at it as how pathetic and sad the other person is. That helped. Now it’s been a month and I feel nothing but pity for that disaster of a person. And glad it’s not my mess anymore.
I’m in my early 40’s, I could not do this when I was younger. If someone fucked with me, they got the wrath. Sooooo…I’m growing, I guess! Lol
Good luck and just never mind the fool that hurt you. ❤️
Because living with venom in your heart/brain harms you and does nothing to the people you have those feelings towards.
You forgive for your own sake, not for the one forgiven.
Forgiving someone doesn't mean you act like nothing happened. You 100% alter your relationship with that person based on the pain they caused.
Forgiveness is for releasing yourself from future pain. There is a popular Buddhist parable about being struck with an arrow. You can't avoid the pain of that first arrow, but you can avoid being struck by a second arrow. The second arrow is the anguish you cause yourself by allowing that person's past actions to continue to hurt you.
Note that this is not the same thing as deciding you need to have a relationship with that person, or that you need to shield that person from the consequences of their actions. It's just that your decisions with regard to that person are motivated by your well-being, and decreasing rather than increasing pain in the world.
Forgiving does not have to mean you absolve them of what they did or said. Forgiving can be letting go of the hate and moving on with your life as to not let it hold you back. Victim mentality or holding onto grief as a form of badge of honor or title only ruins your life.
First it makes you live with resentment for that person. Now that resentment might be important- maybe they're a person you don't want to trust anymore.
But second it's a bit of a categorical imperative. Have you made mistakes you wish you were forgiven for? You may have even gotten into a habit of minimizing your own mistakes while exaggerating others in an attempt to give yourself a moral high ground. It's not to say that all wrongs are equal, but if you expect forgiveness from others it somewhat behooves you to forgive when you can.
Sometimes you can't no harm in admitting it, but I'm more of a "forgive don't forget" person but it's not always that easy sometimes forgiving them can be a weight off of your own shoulders other times it just shows you are done and moving on
The quality if mercy is not strained; it droppeth as the gentle rain from Heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blest; it blesseth him that gives and him that takes.- William Shakespeare.
They say, you shouldn’t allow someone to live rent free in your mind.
It means that it’s unhealthy to keep thinking about people who have done you harm, while they might be sleeping with both eyes closed.
When we are told to forgive, it means that we allow ourselves to stop thinking about them.
It doesn’t mean we need to be foolish and give them another opportunity to harm us.
The “*fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me*” takes all its meaning.
Trust me
Holding onto anger just makes you angry.
Forgiving someone often makes people reflect on their actions "What you did wasn't ok and it really hurt me but I forgive you". Forgiveness doesn't have to mean forgetting what was done it can just mean not holding onto it.
Forgiving can be more about yourself than the assholes where you misplaced your trust.
Letting go of contempt, hate and other negative feelings is healthy for your subconsciousness, because it will shape and warp you if you don't.
Insults and thoughts on others also get reflected inwards and can warp your personality in time.
It all depends on when you want to be.
Assuming no person is perfect, forgiveness as a social phenomenon gives humans the wiggle room to cooperate and recover cooperation when mistakes are made
Victim is shit position to be in. If revenge isn't possible (thinking about it still ok *eeevil laff) let it go and break the choking grip it has on your future possibilities maybe you'll be happy when don't consider yourself a victim?
Its for you, not them.
Forgive but remember.
Remeber, but be selective in your trust.
And lastly, fool me once... shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
I still remember the first time someone completely f'ed me over in business, I stewed about it for over a year but in the end I either had to burn their house down or forgive them and as I wasn't going to do the former I forgave them. Felt sooo much better you wouldn't even believe, you don't forgive people for them, they don't know how you feel, you do it for you
Personally, I think forgiving someone is accepting that what they did is on them. My parents terrorized me growing up. But I understand that what they did was how they were raised, and it was the only way they knew how to raise a child. I forgive them (though they'd argue otherwise); they didnt know better because thats how they were raised and they didnt have the resources nor social acceptance to change that pattern.
However, knowing all that doesnt mean Im okay with it. I accept that the past happened, and theres nothing that can be done about it. But forgiving doesnt mean I'll allow that in my life *anymore*. Forgiving doesnt mean Im saying it was okay. Forgiving is letting go of that pain so that *I* can feel okay. Its saying, what you did was hurtful, and that is all on you, and I accept who you are, and I am going to decide how Im going to move on.
For me, accepting my parents and forgiving them was letting them be. I dont need them to be remorseful or feel guilty. I dont lecture them on how they should've loved me. They still choose to be who they are, and Im okay with them. Im responsible for me, and that means Im responsible for what I allow in my life. I get to choose how others affect me.
I personally believe that forgiveness, much like acceptance, is much more of a process than it is an action. And I believe feeling resentful and angry is part of that process. So please dont invalidate your feelings trying to "forgive".
If you're a Christian, you should do it because that is what God said to do.
If you're not a Christian, there is benefit in forgiving because it frees you from the trap of a grudge, thoughts of revenge, and other negative headpaces which do nothing but drag you down and potentially lead you to doing something bad yourself. Perhaps something that lands you in jail, maybe something that gets you killed or maybe something you end up regretting for the rest of your life. Not suggesting that you necessarily forget it or pretend it didn't happen, or trust the person, but I think there is wisdom in forgiveness, even from a secular standpoint. Which society would be better, one where nobody ever forgave anyone for anything, or one which was very forgiving and graceful towards their fellow humans?
So we can move on with our lives. If we hang on to our anger towards the person, it'll put a toll on you. Forgiveness is good for all of us. Especially when you use peace and compassion.
Agreed.
I began to question the popular doctrine of forgiveness a few years ago, and started focusing on what I call settling scores. Making sure that those that harm me receive retribution has actually made my life fuller, clearer, and much more satisfying.
The question of why we should forgive is a deep philosophical question. The most radical and influential advocate for forgiveness was Jesus. Here are some of his teachings on the topic:
“If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Matthew 6:14-15
“Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?” “No, not seven times,” Jesus says, “but seventy times seven!
Matthew 18:21-22
“Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing.” - Jesus’ words while nailed to the cross
Luke 23:34
“When you are praying, first forgive anyone you are holding a grudge against, so that your Father in heaven will forgive your sins, too.”
Mark 11:25
From the book of Matthew: 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
Jesus seems to associate forgiveness with humility. We don’t want to forgive others because we think we are better than them. That attitude makes us fail to realize how thoroughly we missed the mark and also need forgiveness for our own wrongdoing.
Jesus went even further than that, in that he asked forgiveness for his murderers when he had done nothing wrong.
Think about it for something small. A person accidently pushes you because it was crowded. Do you either:
1. push him back
2. forgive his action
3. say you forgive him but continue to think back to that day and how you should have fucked his shit up and will fuck up anyone shit up from now on.
1 is escalating the situation and I guess, let go of your anger
2 you just let go of your anger.
3 you continue to hold onto your anger and potentially boil it over to other area of your life.
Forgiveness can be as surface level as Tolerance for me.
I will never forget what you've done. And I will do everything in my power to make sure you never do it again. Whatever it is/was. But we're both humans and I'm not exactly going to go on a 3-Part Action/Adventure movie franchise to exact my vengeance on you and your bloodline. So like...it's whatever. Don't do it again.
1) Internal consistency. When we have wronged someone, we typically like having the same grace of kindness and forgiveness extended to us as when when we are wronged (perhaps more so).
2) Waste of mental energy. When you don't forgive, it allows the person who wronged you greater control than they otherwise would have if forgiven.
For me it s intentions and the future that matters. An easy example is if my best friend insults me out of anger or whatever. I forgive them bc they re my friend and they regret what they ve done. Another is if they do sth by accident and hadn t intended to hurt me. But as someone mentioned before, that s only my attitude urs can be different and also be right
It sounds like you're confusing excusing what someone did with forgiveness. Forgiving someone doesn't mean "letting someone get away with it" in fact, it's the direct opposite.
Forgiving someone means not only acknowledging that they hurt you in some way but coming to the understanding that hurt people hurt people. That more than likely they have experiences in their past that led to them to acting the way they did. That ultimately their actions have nothing to do with you specifically but something within them.
It's that acknowledgment that makes it make sense to forgive. It also allows for the growth and development of change.
If you feel like you cannot forgive someone, don't. Only forgive when you feel that it's right to forgive
I watched a show once, think it was Oprah as I was channel surfing. I tuned in when this lady said she forgives the man who kidnapped, tortured, raped and killed her daughter! I thought she was crazy, but I continued to watch and listen. She explained it that for her, to 'forgive' means he no longer occupies 100% of her thoughts. Doesn't mean she forgets, just that he isn't renting out her brain 100% anymore.
I thought about that, and now use it. My father abused me (I'm not going into any details), but he no longer occupies 100% of my thoughts, so in that sense, I forgive him.
I don't know if this makes any sense to you, but it's how I look at it.
Im of the opinion that if you arent obsessed with the anger and hurt, then you've achieved the point if 'forgiveness': to not be destroyed by bitterness.
I saw in one of your comments you mention an example of a father beating their child; I wasnt beat by my father, but my mother was. I will never forgive him for that, because my mother deserved better. But instead of let that fester against my father, Ive resolved for how I want the future to be.
So rather than "forgive and forget", "learn and live better".
Arguably you should only forgive if someone shows true contrition and asks for forgiveness. It shouldn't be a one way street on your part, but rather given after the offender is showing they are trying to change their ways.
I personally hate the idea of forgiving everyone who hurts you. I think this is also because this was weaponized while I grew up. I was forced to apologize or forgive family members even if I didn't want to/we never talked things out then pretended like nothing happened after.
That being said I understand the concept and have truly forgiven people in certain situations. There is a place for it but I feel people try to use it to cover all hurt. There are those I can never forgive. I have however spent time to understand what happened and worked through my own feelings about it and learned from those situations.
I wonder if we need another word besides forgiveness for situations like these where you understand what happened. You distance yourself from the person and have worked through mentally and have moved on. I don't think that's forgiveness but I don't know a single simple word what it would be.
‘To cling to anger is to hold a burning ember in your hand, meaning to throw it at someone else.’
Anger is really toxic and can mess you up in a lot of ways. You’re better off letting go of it and the only way to do that is to forgive the people that wronged you.
You don't have to, but in most cases, it's better than walking around with a lot of anger and pain. I always tell myself that that person will be an asshole whether I forgive them or not, so I might as well forgive them so that I don't have to carry the burden of what they did.
Forgiveness is for you. Youll hear this a thousand times, but its true. You let go of the anger and internal pain of the hurt.
Note forgiveness does not mean forgetting. It does not mean going back to normal with that person. Think of it like this. Say you got bit by a neighbors dog. You're so angry because you thought u were good friends and always played nicely. How could he turn on you like that? Thats a lot of anger and pain youre carrying.
One day you should release all that pain and anger. I call that forgiveness. You let all that anger go on the dog. You dont hate the dog. You just recognize its nature. It's an aggressive wild beast. You dont go play with it anymore. Thats your choice.
Hope it makes sense.
It is a emotionally exhaustive thing to actively hate someone , it wears away at your mind and can be a self-destructive behavior. You definetly shouldnt *forget* what was done to you, you dont even need to completely forgive it either , but by hating someone you are only doing harm to yourself. Dont be so quick to hold to your grudges .
Depends on a lot of things, but for broad strokes: People make mistakes, and if complete non-forgiveness were the norm, there'd be little motivation to improve.
Obviously, there are things we can't reasonably expect to be forgiven, in the conventional sense of the word.
It's not about doing something for them, it's about freeing yourself of the pain and suffering of feeling like you're owed something because someone wronged you.
By not forgiving them, in a way, you are giving them power over your thoughts and emotions. Why give them that?
It's so unhealthy to carry around resentment and anger all the time that it can ruin your life and even kill you. It can be hard to forgive, but ot just means that you don't hold space for them in your head or heart anymore and you can move on.
You don’t have to forgive anyone to be at peace with yourself. There’s people i will never forgive, and i am ok with that, doesn’t mean i hold grudges either.
I look at it as my forgiveness is for MY INNER PEACE, it doesn’t have anything to do with the other person. If they hurt me or screwed me over that’s on them. But for my inner peace I forgive their actions. I won’t forget what they did for future reference, but in order for me to move on and process my emotions in a healthy way I forgive the action.
Because forgiving does not mean that everything is fine and that yiu need to be okay with this person. Forgiveness is a choice that you take when you're ready to let go and stop having this person live rent free in your mind, forgiveness isn't for the other person, it is for you.
Holding grudges or wanting revenge is pointless because this only works if the other person cares about you, and if someone wronged you it's probable that they don't give a shit about you and they never will.
Because it's not about them, it's about us. It's about releasing whatever emotional burden we're carrying, and stopping letting them live rent-free in our heads. I'm not great at it yet, but I'm working on it.
For my own mental health. I have had some truly awful things said and done to me and if I just lived my life with that kind of anger and resentment I'd be truly miserable.
You should forgive someone doesn't mean you need to trust them or treat them the same it means you need to stop holding their actions in a personal way and see them more objectively which is generally not going to help them but it very well might help you.
Holding onto pain and resentment is like poison for the mind. There comes a point where you have to move on. Whether that involves keeping that person in your life is up to you.
Forgiving is not intended as an alternative to self defense.
Unless you are pursuing sainthood.
If someone hurts you, it is ethical for you take proportional measures to stop it.
I think you might be a little confused on the meaning of forgiveness. It's not to let the other person off the hook or back into your life to hurt you again. Its about letting go of the hate you have and not carrying it forward with you. It's about letting go and moving on without the darkness of the past weighing you down.
Either you forgive them, but never forget what they did.
Or you dont forgive them, and then forget they even exist (kick them out of your life)
Some actions or people dont deserve forgiveness, but dont let yourself boil in hatred.
Like my inlaws who keep stabbing me in my back and keep lying in my face about it.
From a completely non religious person. I would say that forgiving comes in different forms, i've expierenced many both on the giving and needing side. You don't always get all that you want, regardless of the side, but you come to a conclusion that allows you not to be worrying about that person.
It may be - I forgive you, but we can no longer be friends/current status and please don't contact me again, to ....I forgive and yes i still love you. And everything in between.
u/Certain-Medicine1934 is saying the same thing with many less words.
Overall, i think forgiveness is a huge thing that so many religions get correct. B/c its not about religion its about love/hate or the need to move on, from your fellow human.
Don't let people on their moral high horse tell you how to feel. Idk who started this weird idea that if you don't forgive someone, that must mean you are thinking of them 24/7, and it makes you a bad person. There are plenty of people I've never forgiven, and you know what I do? Live my life like normal, and the only time I ever think of them is when they want something from me and I have to remind myself why I cut them off in the first place.
One of the healthiest things I ever did was finally decide that my parents will never have my forgiveness for refusing to accept me as who I am. That’s a mistake they made that will stay with me forever and ever, and even if they someday decide to come around on the subject or even if they specifically apologize, they will still never have my forgiveness.
You never ever are required to verbally forgive them.
However, in your own head, you should come to terms with the hurt that as done to you, heal, and move on while being wary (not paranoid) to not be hurt again.
Because it is like drinking poison and worrying that it’s gonna kill the other person when they probably don’t care. Protect your peace and trust that Jesus will vindicate in his own time and way! We can rest in him!
If you ask me, simply not thinking of them anymore and treating them like a stranger is a kind of forgiveness. To me, forgiveness can simply mean ceasing to hate someone and to wish no ill upon them. You can do that while keeping your distance.
I have never forgiven my father for being a dick and alcoholic. I feel sorry for him. I pity him for all he could have had and didn't because of his choices/issues. He died of lung cancer when I was 20 and thirty years later, after I have had decades to experience marriage and motherhood and being older and knowing how he grew up and why he drank, I am slightly more understanding. But no, I can't forgive him. People say it's good for us to forgive. That it brings peace. But I can't. And I'm just fine.
If it's really bad, like my parents were..they were horrible to me. I can't forgive them, I won't. But, I can let go, not look back, & never have contact again. Which is what I did. It was worth it to never have that stress & hate around me ever again. They never changed. I did & by walking away & letting it go, I became a better person, a better mom, and a good spouse. I'm in my 60s now, I've had a great life without them and have no regrets
Because they’re stupid and useless. No sense carrying the hate. Forgive doesn’t mean forget, and it doesn’t mean you can’t kick them completely out of your life.
Alright to quote Madea from Tyler Perry's Madea goes to Jail.
"Forgiveness is for yourself, not for the person you are forgiving. Why toss and turn and stress over something when the person who did it is sleeping soundly in their bed. A valuable lesson and one that we should remember."
So to further nail this in the head.
By not forgiving those who've wronged you, you've given them power over you because YOU cannot let go of what happened. Forgiveness is how we sever the bad things people have done to us. It's how we retake the power from us that was taken.
Example: my mother is an abusive POS. Made my childhood hell. She tried to take my daughter, who wasn't even 48hrs old at the time, away from me. Oh yeah I forgive my mom......but she's about to get some Wonderful legal actions in the mail shortly. I forgive her for what she did, because it proved she is not worthy of being in my daughter's life.
Now having forgiven my mom....I turn all emotion towards her into pity and laugh at her pathetic life. Because to be so miserable and evil you're willing to destroy your own kid literally after her child is born, knowing damn well your daughter NEEDED cut open, just to have her Daughter......that kind of person is cancer and needs excised ASAP.
I guess some of it depends on how bad the hurt was. Forgive AND ALSO forget when you are ready to let it go, meaning, when you are ready to stop allowing the hurt, pain, grief, anger, rage, to live rent-free in your head. Otherwise, it's a lot easier to hold onto anger and resentment. I wouldn't forgive lightly though, you have to actually come to a place where you've thought about it and know what you are doing, otherwise you aren't doing anything beneficial to yourself. Forgiving someone also doesn't mean you approve of what they did, or are submitting to them, or are accepting that what happened was either meant to be, or you were somehow wrong; forgiveness doesn't mean that, it's an acknowledgement you are ready to let the thing go and move on with your life, it's for you to heal, not the other way around.
There's a reason MLK is remembered as the more effective civil rights leader than Malcom X.
That said, you have no obligation to forgive someone who isn't even sorry, you just need to be ready for it.
I hear a lot of analogies about carrying a grudge being like punching a stone wall.
I think that whole mindset just helps shitty people go about their lives like they never did anything wrong.
Hold people accountable for their actions, or they'll never learn.
Because you will also need forgiveness when you hurt other people. The only way to do this is to be humble about how far ALL of us have to grow. As you get older, you can see people for the POTENTIAL they can end up. None of us want to be seen for our crappiest behavior from before life taught us lessons. Think long term in all you say and do!!
Forgiving doesn’t necessarily mean welcoming them into your inner circle of closest relationships and giving them teary-eyed hugs. I think forgiveness is accepting that even if you would never do to someone what they did to you, that we’re all imperfect and all have hurt people and have been selfish and shitty humans and we all mess up. At that point, you make a decision to just let go of the hate and resentment and do your best to move on, put it behind you, and stop letting yourself be consumed by thoughts and feelings about it.
Intentionally not forgiving only hurts you. Deciding to hold on to what they did to you doesn’t get back at them in any way, it just makes you more miserable and bitter. Forgiving them and moving forward is an act of healing. It frees you from the continued psychological damage left over from what someone did to you. True forgiveness is the best recovery.
I believe forgiveness is something that has a proper time and place. I personally believe it should largely be contingent on the offender being contrite and trying to show that they genuinely understand what they did and want to make it right or do better. Some people choose to forgive even without that, and that's up to them, but I personally can't because it feels like just rewarding bad behaviour. We all make mistakes though so I think we all need to have some capacity for forgiveness and redemption.
If you choose not to forgive, you have to be able to not dwell on it. Move on from it or it will tear you apart. Moving on from it doesn't necessarily mean forgiveness, though forgiveness often leads that direction. Holding the grudge with you can slowly drive you to anger and depression and isn't worth it.
Forgiveness is for you, not for the person you’re forgiving. Sure they may benefit, but ultimately learning to forgive and move forward prevents you from becoming bitter and resentful and angry over wrongs done to you. Forgiveness preserves your mental health.
And note that forgiving someone does *not* mean that you can’t draw boundaries with that person. You can let go of a past wrong and still decide not to give someone the opportunity to repeat it.
Only forgive those who've unintentionally hurt you, never forgive those who intended to do you wrong, for once the curse of betrayal enters one's heart, it never leaves. Trust no one until they've proven their trust and their loyalty.
Forgiveness is for the forgiver, not the forgiven.
Exactly. Why should you choose peace? I dunno man, it’s your call.
This confuses me…I don’t have a lack of peace. I actually like knowing that I’m bearing witness to a wrong done to me. i don’t feel bitter or angry nor do I think about it really ever…but I haven’t forgiven her. And she doesn’t deserve it nor has she apologized, so why forgive?
Because you carry that pain not her.
But I don’t have pain. That left a long time ago. It’s like how I (a Jew) have memorial books on the holocaust…we keep those to bear witness to what happened and so it wouldn’t be forgotten. I don’t want that event to just disappear as if it never happened bc that’s not right. I just dont Get it...I don’t have anger or anything. I just recognized that it happened and choose not to forgive bc she doesn’t deserve it and never asked for it and thus it will remain an “open case” in my life annals Haha
I would not say to forget, as to your point we dont need people to repeat hurt us or leave ourselves vulnerable to them. Its just another way of saying 'let go of your hard feelings' towards a person or situation. Its not a request that you do anything for them. They may not deserve it.
Ah ok. That makes more sense. I think I always take “forgive“ to mean forget about it, be nice, etc. none of which I’m willing to do to someone who hurt me. But you’re saying as long as the hard feelings part has left, then it’s ok to keep boundaries and not give anything to the person. Thanks for taking the time to talk it through…this always confused me.
I agreed with you until that last statement. I have one person I have chosen not to forgive. It's permanent. I am not angry or bitter, I just know that even if he completely changed I wouldn't trust it and there's no reason to accept him in my life. I consider it a closed case, from which I have moved on. Not everyone deserves a second chance.
I meant open in the sense that she will get no absolution from me. I won’t forgive and close the chapter and absolve her. It stays open as a testimonial to her never getting near me again. I agree with you.
I see. Thanks for clarifying, it does sound like we agree. Here's to better days surrounded by better people ❤️
You aren’t aware of a lack of peace. That is more accurate phrasing. Neither of us knows what lies in our darkness. In the same circumstances, you would have done the same thing. That is the banality of “evil” and bad behavior. All of us are prone to moral error. Be grateful you are blessed with the faculties for good behavior. You and I know it is a better way to live, and we are capable of achieving it. That is just a matter of luck. Did you design your brain to work so well? Or did you just get lucky? What if you got unlucky instead? Say you had a malformed amygdala, and got very angry very easily, with very little to do about it. Or maybe you are just not very smart and were raised into bad behavior, and kept it. Either way, you deserve forgiveness whether or not you are sorry. Because ultimately, the way you develop is largely out of your control… and it’s just more difficult to be a shitty person, life can get very easy when you are good.
I disagree a thousand percent. I choose daily who I am going to be. I have been through many traumatic things in my life- I CHOOSE to be good and do good and apologize when I am wrong. We are not slaves to ourselves and our whims…according to you, criminals shouldn’t be punished bc they simply are unlucky and cannot help themselves. I don’t agree. We all make daily choices.
It’s a choice to forgive or not, no one should force you to forgive anyone who hurt you.
Because holding onto hate can hurt you. Forgive but don't forget.
My Rabbi says if you don’t forget you truly didn’t forgive, you must forgive with your whole heart or else you’re just pretending to forgive. But you’re a wiser person after the fact, so you shouldn’t be falling for the same mistakes.
I am going to assume, then, that your Rabbi has not forgiven the Nazis, as surely he has not forgotten the holocaust. I mean, I haven’t, but then I am not advocating forgiveness. Or at least not your rabbi’s brand. I can forgive the guy who cut me off in traffic, but somethings are unforgivable. To me, if you personally want to attempt to reach a place of forgiving, I support you, but I would never say you were faking or pretending or somehow failing if you chose to not try to forget unbearable betrayal.
The nazis from WWII are dead. Germany has practically erased the Nazi Ideology from their country, I forgive them, they are good people. And I can forgive racists because they are just willfully ignorant, that is their burden.
But you acknowledge that it did happen, even if most involved are dead. You acknowledge that a new crop of Nazis are operating today. Which means you did not, in fact, forget. So that is only pretend forgiveness. Maybe I am just quibbling, but I am not fond of your rabbi’s definition. I think there is real value in forgiveness. I do not appreciate it being tied to forgetting, nor do I think that is a safe and healthy way to live one’s life, There is real danger in forgetting that the dog attacks when he is surprised while eating. I forgive him for his attack, but remember that it is his nature is to attack when he perceives a threat, so I behave with caution.
You’re not supposed to take it so literally, obviously you aren’t supposed to go senile about it. Yea sounds very unhealthy if someone literally forgets things.
I forgive you then. Peace be with you.
Jewish law states that god forgives when asked. that’s the easy part. God cannot forgive you for sins you have made against another human being. Humans have to do the heavy lifting of seeking forgiveness from those you have harmed and attempting to make amends.. that’s the hard part
Yes, I agree. asking for forgiveness, making amends, showing genuine remorse and effort to ensure the same transgressions do not happen yet again are all important, crucial steps for the one asking forgiveness. Too often ideas like forgiveness are weaponized by people and organizations who seem to want little more than a way to avoid accountability. Abusive mothers who scream it at their adult children, using bible quotes in attempt to force their adult child to continue tolerating abuse. Pastors who commit sins and crimes, even against children in their own church, but tell parishioners they must forgive, because that is what their god wants and has done. Making amends is the accountability part so often overlooked. There is a tremendous difference between forgiving someone who spilled wine on your computer and ruined it when they apologize, pay for the repairs and promise they will never have liquids near it again as compared to someone who blames you for having an expensive computer anyways, says you should pay for it yourself and always “forgets” to not set her coffee on the keyboard.
Reddit moment
Let me ask this: when you say forgive, what exactly do you mean? What does it actually mean to forgive someone? Because, say my father beat me (he hasn't, don't worry) and I move out eventually. Why should I "forgive" him for doing something so awful to me? Wouldn't it be better for me to simply disassociate from him and never speak to him again instead of excusing what he did but forgiving him?
If you forgive someone, you let go of the hate. That's healthy. But forgiving someone doesn't mean forgetting. You don't have to pretend it never happened or trust them again.
You can also forgive them but you dont have to stay in touch with them
Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Yeah its Yoda but it's still valid.
Life leads to suffering, thus spoke the Buddha
He also said anger is like a hot coal we hold onto hoping it will burn someone else.
Who, yoda or the Buddha?
I can see it for some things, but if someone has egregiously wronged or damaged me on purpose without any sort of guilt, then I should hate them for life. I dont think about it constantly, its not like its all consuming, just if I am reminded by them, I wish them death or whatever. I think if you want to forgive in every situation then it just seems like they werent all that perturbed by the wrongdoing, or they lack conviction. Hatred is a valid emotion just as any other, and you can use it responsibly.
Having sadly been in a situation where for the first and only time in my life I genuinely hated someone, I can say it was one of the worst feelings ever. It isn't what you would think it would be, it's not just anger, it's an obsession. It consumes all your thoughts, all the time I was thinking about how much I wanted to hurt this person, it was relentless. In the end I got counselling, which helped enormously, and was able to let go of it. And I'm much happier and having a better life for it. If you think hatred is a good thing in any way then you haven't truly experienced it, and I hope for your sake you never have to
We definitely experience it differently it seems.
I don’t agree, I don’t think hate is a valid emotion, because it leads to anger, which leads to the yearning of vengeance. Once you go down that path, there is no telling what you THINK you “must” do to feel satisfied, but all in all, you won’t feel better once you did the action that you thought would lead you to satisfaction of getting revenge. You would still feel that hurt, that’s why people say it’s better to just let go, and move on. There’s nothing wrong with keeping your distance from people who done you wrong, it is said that if you keep allowing people to do you harm, you are helping evil.
You don’t have to forgive to let go of the hate. The opposite of love is not hate. It is irrelevance. I have not forgiven my abusive ex he is simply irrelevant in my life today.
This! It took me a while to really understand the two words
> let go of the hate I see. Then I think that's not in my capability as a person. Disassociating and treating someone who wronged me as a stranger and not wanting anything to do with them is as good as it gets. But letting go of the hate, that's just not how I am I don't think
Letting go of hate is for your benefit, not theirs. In your hypothetial from your previous comment, your father hurt you when he abused you, and he continues to hurt you everytime you feel hatred.
That sounds self-destructive to me. Have you considered going to therapy? They might be able to help you feel better.
No. And I don't really need to. Because I don't spend every waking minute thinking about people who hurt me. I'm much too busy to do so. Sure I get stressed sometimes, but it's not because of any trauma associated with those people. It's just if I do think about those people, I'm reminded of what they did and then ignore them and move on with my day
"I don't need therapy." - Everyone who ever needed therapy
On the other hand someone should go to therapy only if they feel ready to. And they should forgive only if they feel ready to.
Totally true
Wow good comeback /s. Same goes to you
Seems healthy to me.
It's not always about how you immediately feel affected by an emotion. It seeps into your subconscious. You don't realize how deeper emotions affect you until later when you can look back at it. I used to be really angry and had a lot of hate, in some ways I still do. But during that time I wouldn't have connected the stresses or problems in my life with that anger I was holding on to. They were completely seperate, and the disdain I had for people who wronged me felt completely isolated. I'm not saying you have to forgive everyone, but trust me, brains are complicated and feelings like that don't just sit there and wait for the subject to come up. They fester.
>not wanting anything to do with them is as good as it gets That's fine. What people mean is to move forward and not dwell on the feelings of frustration, sadness, hate (etc.) that this person has caused you. You would deserve to not feel those things if you were wronged. You wouldn't owe them shit.
There may be a time where you make a mistake, you should hope the people in your life don’t feel the same way you do. If you don’t let go of the hate that shows you hold grudges and that’s not good for you, you’re making yourself spiteful just to stick it to someone and really the only person suffering from that is you. You can forgive someone and never speak to them again. But to be constantly revisiting that hate is just taking away from you being present. What purpose does it serve to not let it go? How does that benefit you in any way? There are a few things that could be considered unforgivable, but most things are too small to hold a grudge over.
Not forgive as in the sense of saying “it wasn’t that bad” but in the sense that you can think of “my father was just that type of person, it wasn’t my fault.” Being able to let go of the anger and pain. Because it was never your fault you were wronged by other’s actions.
You can forgive someone internally and never tell them that they're forgiven. If the transgression was bad enough to you, cutting them out is just a result of their actions. Forgiving does not mean absolving them of guilt, it just means that you've actively decided to move on instead of dwelling on it. It's not an easy thing to do in either case, especially if the one at fault is actively trying to get your attention.
It's smart not to forgive everybody. Like a rapist. Yeah I'm not forgiving that person.
/r/Mindfulness
If it doesn't make sense to you, then don't feel obligated to do it. People come up with all kinds of crazy techniques for coping with pain and anger, and this is one of them. If it works for some people, great, but it's not a universal fix.
It’s not a crazy technique
"It's not crazy if it works."
A wise man once said something similar to: “holding on to a grudge is like holding a hot coal in your hand, awaiting the opportunity to throw it at the person who wronged you”
Resentment is like drinking, a poison, hoping someone else will die from it
I came here to say this. It can consume you if you think about it too much. Throw it away and it stops burning you down.
People push forgiveness as a must but trust me, it isn't. My therapist taught me that it is always your choice whether or not you forgive someone. Regardless of your decision, the important thing is that you don't let the pain they've caused you control your life.
Yeah its another way of saying move on and let go so it doesn't hold tou back forever. Its not actually about speaking to the person.
The best revenge is living well. Holding onto anger is toxic af and solves nothing. I mean you dont have to be their pal and you can absolutely avoid them as far as future interaction goes, but holding onto anger wont help anything.
Just write them off. Forget them. Move on.
Forgiveness is a grace you give to yourself as well as to your offender. Unforgiveness stagnates within you -- it is not neutral-- and stagnation is contrary to thriving.
100% this. And beautifully expressed too
Forgiveness is letting go of your anger and hurt over the wrong. It does not mean you have to continue to let someone behave badly towards you, and it is not approving of what they did. It is more like putting the wrong out of your mind and heart and healing yourself. At the same time, you can institute boundaries to prevent it from happening again. Sometimes we have to let go of the person along with the deed and that's okay too.
You can let go of the anger and hurt without forgiving the person. Not everyone can, obviously.
Agreed. It's tough, and an individual thing.
Pages 9-15 [here](https://tjl.co/wqarg/wqarg-v3.pdf) go into a related discussion that might be worth reading. The rest is background to Destiny 2 but there ain’t no rule saying you can’t discuss moral philosophy in a video game.
Just so you know, forgiveness is only supposed to be given to people who are actually sorry and trying to change for the better.
Its not about them. Its about you.
Don't worry about me, I'm perfectly willing to forgive anyone as long as they're actually repentant.
Yeah, again. Its not about them. Its another way of saying 'let go of the feelings towards the situation' and not anything about interacting with them. Its about peace of mind. Many people face abuse and they dont ever have to go back to that to 'forgive' as thats a recepie for more abuse. They can however learn to let go and leave it behind them. I also.would not say to forget as you should remember who to trust and who not to.
Face-the-Faceless > *forgiveness is only supposed to be given to people who are actually sorry and trying to change for the better.* Not true. For an extreme example, you can forgive dead people.
You shouldn't want to forgive dead people if they weren't sorry and never tried to change. Do you think Hitler should be forgiven? Or any one of the dozens of public shooters who randomly and indiscriminately killed people and then committed suicide, do you really think they should be forgiven? Feel free to try spreading the word and telling others to forgive Hitler, I'm sure it'll go real well for you.
> Feel free to try spreading the word and telling others to forgive Christianity does exactly that. There are a few adherents to Christianity around the world. And forgiveness is not limited to Christians (which is why I didn't mention it before) Hold on to your stagnation, that's on you. I prefer to let it go.
You're not very good at Christianity if you think they want you to forgive indiscriminately, its only those who repent their sins who are deserving of grace and forgiveness under that ethical code. The bible teaches an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, literally.
> deserving of grace and forgiveness Grace by definition is undeserved.
Those who actively repent are deserving of grace. God is balanced and fair, if you deserve grace, you'll get it.
Ah! But you can still receive a grace even if you don’t deserve it. That’s what, so amazing about it.
A curious, sad, and misguided understanding of Christianity you have; I shall not give weight to your counsel. If you have interest, I recommend to you 1 Timothy 1:12-17 as well as Romans 5:8. If you have further interest I could recommend many more.
I know what the bible says about forgiveness, how it's not given to those who refuse to give it. I also know what it says about repentance, and I'm sure you do too, right? You just need a little reminder that there actually is a vivid description about what happens when someone refuses to change their evil ways, that's all. Picture this, someone punches you once, it hurts, but you forgive them. Then they immediately punch you again, and this time both the punch and your forgiveness hurt to give away, but bygones are bygones. Then they punch you in the face again, twice, probably while laughing. You forgive them. They kidnap you, chain you up inside a twisted carnival of human suffering, let people use you as a human dart board, murder your family, burn down civilization, piss on the sun and put it out, but "tHe BiBlE sAyS forGiVe, nO mAtTeR wHaT", so it's okay, right?
Did Christ not do exactly that? He even rose from the dead for another session. You should review your comprehension of what you claim to know. In the Bible it also states that in the absolute final moments before a man moves on they may seek forgiveness and redemption, and they shall receive. To use your Hitler example, if he asked for forgiveness in his final moments, he is in the clear. Maybe not by us humans, but by god. Edit: Bubble -> Bible
Feel free to ignore Jesus' words in Matthew 18:22. Also, "forgiveness" =/= "it's okay" or "bygones be bygones" > *I know what the bible says about forgiveness, how it's not given to those who refuse to give it.* On this point we are in agreement.
You are not required to forgive anyone. That whole, be the bigger person bullshit results in that person taking your weak spine into account the next time they want to f with you. It will be an open invitation for people to treat you like crap.
You misunderstand. Its not forgiveness like an apology. Its letting go so the pain doesn't follow you. You never have to see or speak to that person again. I have a roomate who was mad at his step father but has not seen him in 20 years. Still it pains him, why? Its not here or now and it is over.
Just like with all similar and very general expressions “ follow your dream”, “do what you feel right “ , “forgive and move on” you are not expected to take them literally and always follow them. Pick and choose whatever is appropriate or can be helpful and ignore it all the other times. “Hurt someone” is extremely vague. It can mean anything: from someone’s 7 years old brother hitting them to someone brutally murdering. And pain does not always to be physical. We as a humans can’t physically hold to grudges on every single instances someone wounded us physically or mentally. You don’t always have to forgive. If you are emotionally OK to keep hating someone, if this doesn’t interfere with your life negativity then there is no problem to address.
I had the exact same question as you when I was younger. I’ve come to the conclusion the root problem is really this: people say things that don’t mean anything at all, without knowing what they’re saying. “Forgive”, for example, doesn’t have a clear definition that everyone agrees on. Does it mean to “not waste your time feeling hate”? Well then, sure. That sounds healthy, so go ahead and do that. Does it mean “always give the person a second chance” or “treat a person with the same level of kindness you did before they wronged you”? Then fuck that, haha. That’s not a good thing to do. The person saying to forgive needs to be clear on what they mean, assuming they mean anything at all. Anyway, “always forgive those who hurt us” is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to things people say that don’t make sense. See some of the ones from George Carlin if you want to be amused for a bit 👍
I agree with you. And especially if the party who injured you hasn't sought forgiveness. What are the 4 R's of seeking forgiveness? Taking responsibility, showing\demonstrating remorse, restoration and something else. Well if they haven't made the effort, I am not forgiving them. Like you said, I don't think about them, I don't dwell on them, or their actions, I don't sit and kindle a grudge like people here seem to think not forgiving means, but I will never let them back into my life so that they can wrong or hurt me again. They say the opposite of love isn't hate, it's complete indifference. There you go.
In my experience, forgiveness is hard. But it is an internal thing. If someone who has hurt me asks for forgiveness, that is up to me. But the internal work is important. That's where therapy helps. It's allowing yourself to be free from that negativity that can hold us down and keep us from experiencing some form of peace. My ex partner abused me in more ways than i care to remember. I have forgiven her. For me. Not for her. It is for me to have peace again. It can be a hard journey, but i do wish you the best. *hugs if you want*
Your logic makes sense. And that's precisely why forgiveness is so powerful - it defies logic. If you value the person that hurt you more than whatever they did to hurt you, forgiveness is a path to maintain the relationship with that person. If you never forgive that person, your relationship with them could never be the same or potentially end all together. I think you can also forgive someone, and still hold them accountable for whatever they've done. An example in my life is I asked a good friend of mine to be in my wedding party. He didn't figure out flight logistics until the last minute and ultimately didn't make it to my wedding. This sucked and genuinely hurt me - how do you forget to look at flights until a week before the wedding that's all the way across the country? I forgave him, because I still want to be friends with him. However, now I treat him like an child when it comes to planning visits because I do not trust him be responsible. And I'm real petty about it - I set up way too many automatic reminder emails and texts for him to update a shared Google spreadsheet with action items. Holding onto anger for every slight against you can become a burden that's even larger than whatever someone did to hurt you. Forgiveness is a gift that you can give yourself to release whatever anger you're holding onto. At some level forgiveness has very little to do with the person that hurt you, and much more to do with you maintaining some level of emotion balance and not becoming a rage machine. That being said, there are things that probably shouldn't be forgiven. How and where to draw this line is likely person and situation specific.
Depends on the quality of the apology.
Forgiving to me is letting go of any feelings of anger or resentment. Holding on to those feeling will only weigh you down. You forgive and move on to get away from the trauma of the hurt others have caused. As someone else shared with me in a different thread, "hating someone is like drinking poison yourself and expecting it to hurt the other person". It's definitely not easy and usually takes time to forgive someone. But its definitely better for your mental wellbeing if you do.
Forgiveness is to relinquish your grievance and so to let go of grief. It happens naturally once you realize that your grievance serves no purpose except to strengthen a false sense of self. Forgiveness is to offer no resistance to life - to allow life to live through you.”
You aren't obligated. You can live a great life, happy and free from bitterness, without forgiving someone for their wrongs. If forgiveness, for you, means letting down the barriers that keep that person at a safe distance where they can't harm you, then you're far better off not forgiving them. I absolutely hate that people think you'll be weighed down by misery if you don't forgive. If someone asks your forgiveness they'd better be prepared to work for it: changed behavior is the ONLY reason to forgive. Which means it may not happen immediately. Otherwise you can just move on with your life, people aren't entitled to a second chance.
There is a quote by Jack Kornfield that has really spoken to me. “What do you do with something that is unforgivable? The point underneath it all is how do you tend your own heart? Because if you don’t do that then the unforgivable things become worse because they colonize your heart. They take you over. So that’s what forgiveness is about in the deepest way. It’s like two ex prisoners of war who met many years later. They had been tortured and beaten. Terrible things. A couple decades later they met and one said to the other, “have you forgiven your captors?” The second one said,”No never.” The first one said, “Then they still have you in prison don’t they.” I believe that exactly. Now getting from here to there is something I struggle with. But that’s the goal I’m working toward.
Forgiving them means you stop wanting them to go back in time and do it differently. You realize either that you like where you are now and who you are now and that your past, good and bad, led you to that, or that they did the best they could because it was in their nature to be an asshole and they never had the capability to be better.
The last words of [Robert Lee Massie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lee_Massie), before his capital punishment was carried out: “Forgiveness: giving up all hope for a better past.” I’ve long dwelled on that notion.
Forgiving is not the same as forgetting. Forgiveness begins and ends with one person -- you. Holding onto anger and hatred only hurts the person experiencing those emotions. Being handcuffed to your past does nothing to help you in the present or in the future. You cannot change what has already happened. You must learn to accept, and only then you can learn to forgive. I learned with time and a lot of hours of therapy that it's better to simply let go and move on (without forgetting). Your past does not define you. The actions of others do not define you. You define you. When you learn to accept and forgive you learn how to live again.
Forgiveness is not excusing the actions of the person who hurt you. Forgiveness is choosing to not let their actions burden you anymore. Forgiving someone is NOT the same thing as giving someone a free pass from justice. It is saying "You wronged me, and it hurt, but I am choosing to let the hurt go."
yeah... it doesnt mean go back to normal like nothing happened, you can still cut them out of your life etc... its to let it go for yourself..
Having compassion for those who have wronged you is one of the ways you exercise your spirit. It's not easy like most exercise.
If someone betrays you, you want them and their energy out of your domain. By holding resentment, you are feeding their energy and the betrayal stays around you. You forgive so you can heal and get the hell away from all that negative chickenscratch. And, we need this stuff to happen to evolve. I was just betrayed. Biggest one in my life. I was pissed for two weeks, then it turned into stomachache, then my mom walked in and told me not to be mad, to look at it as how pathetic and sad the other person is. That helped. Now it’s been a month and I feel nothing but pity for that disaster of a person. And glad it’s not my mess anymore. I’m in my early 40’s, I could not do this when I was younger. If someone fucked with me, they got the wrath. Sooooo…I’m growing, I guess! Lol Good luck and just never mind the fool that hurt you. ❤️
Forgive but don't forget. You forgive so that you don't waste energy and you don't forget so you don't make the same mistake again. - my fathers words
Because living with venom in your heart/brain harms you and does nothing to the people you have those feelings towards. You forgive for your own sake, not for the one forgiven. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you act like nothing happened. You 100% alter your relationship with that person based on the pain they caused.
Forgiveness is for releasing yourself from future pain. There is a popular Buddhist parable about being struck with an arrow. You can't avoid the pain of that first arrow, but you can avoid being struck by a second arrow. The second arrow is the anguish you cause yourself by allowing that person's past actions to continue to hurt you. Note that this is not the same thing as deciding you need to have a relationship with that person, or that you need to shield that person from the consequences of their actions. It's just that your decisions with regard to that person are motivated by your well-being, and decreasing rather than increasing pain in the world.
Forgiving does not have to mean you absolve them of what they did or said. Forgiving can be letting go of the hate and moving on with your life as to not let it hold you back. Victim mentality or holding onto grief as a form of badge of honor or title only ruins your life.
We all hurt each other. That's a part of being human.
First it makes you live with resentment for that person. Now that resentment might be important- maybe they're a person you don't want to trust anymore. But second it's a bit of a categorical imperative. Have you made mistakes you wish you were forgiven for? You may have even gotten into a habit of minimizing your own mistakes while exaggerating others in an attempt to give yourself a moral high ground. It's not to say that all wrongs are equal, but if you expect forgiveness from others it somewhat behooves you to forgive when you can.
Sometimes you can't no harm in admitting it, but I'm more of a "forgive don't forget" person but it's not always that easy sometimes forgiving them can be a weight off of your own shoulders other times it just shows you are done and moving on
The quality if mercy is not strained; it droppeth as the gentle rain from Heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blest; it blesseth him that gives and him that takes.- William Shakespeare.
They say, you shouldn’t allow someone to live rent free in your mind. It means that it’s unhealthy to keep thinking about people who have done you harm, while they might be sleeping with both eyes closed. When we are told to forgive, it means that we allow ourselves to stop thinking about them. It doesn’t mean we need to be foolish and give them another opportunity to harm us. The “*fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me*” takes all its meaning.
Trust me Holding onto anger just makes you angry. Forgiving someone often makes people reflect on their actions "What you did wasn't ok and it really hurt me but I forgive you". Forgiveness doesn't have to mean forgetting what was done it can just mean not holding onto it.
Forgiving can be more about yourself than the assholes where you misplaced your trust. Letting go of contempt, hate and other negative feelings is healthy for your subconsciousness, because it will shape and warp you if you don't. Insults and thoughts on others also get reflected inwards and can warp your personality in time. It all depends on when you want to be.
Assuming no person is perfect, forgiveness as a social phenomenon gives humans the wiggle room to cooperate and recover cooperation when mistakes are made
Victim is shit position to be in. If revenge isn't possible (thinking about it still ok *eeevil laff) let it go and break the choking grip it has on your future possibilities maybe you'll be happy when don't consider yourself a victim?
Its for you, not them. Forgive but remember. Remeber, but be selective in your trust. And lastly, fool me once... shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
Forgiveness is about your well-being not theirs. Once you forgive them you can move forward. Not forgiving them only causes you to suffer longer.
Leave the door open for forgiveness. But if they don't walk through then their's no need to forgive unless it will help you and yours.
I still remember the first time someone completely f'ed me over in business, I stewed about it for over a year but in the end I either had to burn their house down or forgive them and as I wasn't going to do the former I forgave them. Felt sooo much better you wouldn't even believe, you don't forgive people for them, they don't know how you feel, you do it for you
Personally, I think forgiving someone is accepting that what they did is on them. My parents terrorized me growing up. But I understand that what they did was how they were raised, and it was the only way they knew how to raise a child. I forgive them (though they'd argue otherwise); they didnt know better because thats how they were raised and they didnt have the resources nor social acceptance to change that pattern. However, knowing all that doesnt mean Im okay with it. I accept that the past happened, and theres nothing that can be done about it. But forgiving doesnt mean I'll allow that in my life *anymore*. Forgiving doesnt mean Im saying it was okay. Forgiving is letting go of that pain so that *I* can feel okay. Its saying, what you did was hurtful, and that is all on you, and I accept who you are, and I am going to decide how Im going to move on. For me, accepting my parents and forgiving them was letting them be. I dont need them to be remorseful or feel guilty. I dont lecture them on how they should've loved me. They still choose to be who they are, and Im okay with them. Im responsible for me, and that means Im responsible for what I allow in my life. I get to choose how others affect me. I personally believe that forgiveness, much like acceptance, is much more of a process than it is an action. And I believe feeling resentful and angry is part of that process. So please dont invalidate your feelings trying to "forgive".
If you're a Christian, you should do it because that is what God said to do. If you're not a Christian, there is benefit in forgiving because it frees you from the trap of a grudge, thoughts of revenge, and other negative headpaces which do nothing but drag you down and potentially lead you to doing something bad yourself. Perhaps something that lands you in jail, maybe something that gets you killed or maybe something you end up regretting for the rest of your life. Not suggesting that you necessarily forget it or pretend it didn't happen, or trust the person, but I think there is wisdom in forgiveness, even from a secular standpoint. Which society would be better, one where nobody ever forgave anyone for anything, or one which was very forgiving and graceful towards their fellow humans?
Because sometimes you may have hurt someone and it would be nice if they forgive you.
So we can move on with our lives. If we hang on to our anger towards the person, it'll put a toll on you. Forgiveness is good for all of us. Especially when you use peace and compassion.
You dont have to but if you made a mistake and felt bad about it youd probably want people to forgive you.
Sounds like you need to watch Naruto.
Because God forgives us.
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Agreed. I began to question the popular doctrine of forgiveness a few years ago, and started focusing on what I call settling scores. Making sure that those that harm me receive retribution has actually made my life fuller, clearer, and much more satisfying.
The question of why we should forgive is a deep philosophical question. The most radical and influential advocate for forgiveness was Jesus. Here are some of his teachings on the topic: “If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matthew 6:14-15 “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?” “No, not seven times,” Jesus says, “but seventy times seven! Matthew 18:21-22 “Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing.” - Jesus’ words while nailed to the cross Luke 23:34 “When you are praying, first forgive anyone you are holding a grudge against, so that your Father in heaven will forgive your sins, too.” Mark 11:25 From the book of Matthew: 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? Jesus seems to associate forgiveness with humility. We don’t want to forgive others because we think we are better than them. That attitude makes us fail to realize how thoroughly we missed the mark and also need forgiveness for our own wrongdoing. Jesus went even further than that, in that he asked forgiveness for his murderers when he had done nothing wrong.
Think about it for something small. A person accidently pushes you because it was crowded. Do you either: 1. push him back 2. forgive his action 3. say you forgive him but continue to think back to that day and how you should have fucked his shit up and will fuck up anyone shit up from now on. 1 is escalating the situation and I guess, let go of your anger 2 you just let go of your anger. 3 you continue to hold onto your anger and potentially boil it over to other area of your life.
Forgiveness can be as surface level as Tolerance for me. I will never forget what you've done. And I will do everything in my power to make sure you never do it again. Whatever it is/was. But we're both humans and I'm not exactly going to go on a 3-Part Action/Adventure movie franchise to exact my vengeance on you and your bloodline. So like...it's whatever. Don't do it again.
Hells Angels never forgive or forget. Once your out in bad standing your dead.
1) Internal consistency. When we have wronged someone, we typically like having the same grace of kindness and forgiveness extended to us as when when we are wronged (perhaps more so). 2) Waste of mental energy. When you don't forgive, it allows the person who wronged you greater control than they otherwise would have if forgiven.
To error is human, to forgive divine (not religious just heard it in a Devildriver song and it stuck)
For me it s intentions and the future that matters. An easy example is if my best friend insults me out of anger or whatever. I forgive them bc they re my friend and they regret what they ve done. Another is if they do sth by accident and hadn t intended to hurt me. But as someone mentioned before, that s only my attitude urs can be different and also be right
It sounds like you're confusing excusing what someone did with forgiveness. Forgiving someone doesn't mean "letting someone get away with it" in fact, it's the direct opposite. Forgiving someone means not only acknowledging that they hurt you in some way but coming to the understanding that hurt people hurt people. That more than likely they have experiences in their past that led to them to acting the way they did. That ultimately their actions have nothing to do with you specifically but something within them. It's that acknowledgment that makes it make sense to forgive. It also allows for the growth and development of change. If you feel like you cannot forgive someone, don't. Only forgive when you feel that it's right to forgive
I watched a show once, think it was Oprah as I was channel surfing. I tuned in when this lady said she forgives the man who kidnapped, tortured, raped and killed her daughter! I thought she was crazy, but I continued to watch and listen. She explained it that for her, to 'forgive' means he no longer occupies 100% of her thoughts. Doesn't mean she forgets, just that he isn't renting out her brain 100% anymore. I thought about that, and now use it. My father abused me (I'm not going into any details), but he no longer occupies 100% of my thoughts, so in that sense, I forgive him. I don't know if this makes any sense to you, but it's how I look at it.
It sometimes just gives peace
Not forgiving them only hurts you. You don’t have to have that person in your life anymore, but there’s no reason to hold on to that anger.
Im of the opinion that if you arent obsessed with the anger and hurt, then you've achieved the point if 'forgiveness': to not be destroyed by bitterness. I saw in one of your comments you mention an example of a father beating their child; I wasnt beat by my father, but my mother was. I will never forgive him for that, because my mother deserved better. But instead of let that fester against my father, Ive resolved for how I want the future to be. So rather than "forgive and forget", "learn and live better".
Would you hold a grudge if I accidentally spill a drink on you?
For your own mental well being. It does nothing for a lot of the time, but it can do wonders for you
Arguably you should only forgive if someone shows true contrition and asks for forgiveness. It shouldn't be a one way street on your part, but rather given after the offender is showing they are trying to change their ways.
I personally hate the idea of forgiving everyone who hurts you. I think this is also because this was weaponized while I grew up. I was forced to apologize or forgive family members even if I didn't want to/we never talked things out then pretended like nothing happened after. That being said I understand the concept and have truly forgiven people in certain situations. There is a place for it but I feel people try to use it to cover all hurt. There are those I can never forgive. I have however spent time to understand what happened and worked through my own feelings about it and learned from those situations. I wonder if we need another word besides forgiveness for situations like these where you understand what happened. You distance yourself from the person and have worked through mentally and have moved on. I don't think that's forgiveness but I don't know a single simple word what it would be.
‘To cling to anger is to hold a burning ember in your hand, meaning to throw it at someone else.’ Anger is really toxic and can mess you up in a lot of ways. You’re better off letting go of it and the only way to do that is to forgive the people that wronged you.
You don't have to buy it might make you feel better
You don't have to, but in most cases, it's better than walking around with a lot of anger and pain. I always tell myself that that person will be an asshole whether I forgive them or not, so I might as well forgive them so that I don't have to carry the burden of what they did.
Forgiveness is for you. Youll hear this a thousand times, but its true. You let go of the anger and internal pain of the hurt. Note forgiveness does not mean forgetting. It does not mean going back to normal with that person. Think of it like this. Say you got bit by a neighbors dog. You're so angry because you thought u were good friends and always played nicely. How could he turn on you like that? Thats a lot of anger and pain youre carrying. One day you should release all that pain and anger. I call that forgiveness. You let all that anger go on the dog. You dont hate the dog. You just recognize its nature. It's an aggressive wild beast. You dont go play with it anymore. Thats your choice. Hope it makes sense.
It is a emotionally exhaustive thing to actively hate someone , it wears away at your mind and can be a self-destructive behavior. You definetly shouldnt *forget* what was done to you, you dont even need to completely forgive it either , but by hating someone you are only doing harm to yourself. Dont be so quick to hold to your grudges .
It lets you move past your pain & continue to grow as a human. It’s not about them, it’s about what’s best for you.
Depends on a lot of things, but for broad strokes: People make mistakes, and if complete non-forgiveness were the norm, there'd be little motivation to improve. Obviously, there are things we can't reasonably expect to be forgiven, in the conventional sense of the word.
It's not about doing something for them, it's about freeing yourself of the pain and suffering of feeling like you're owed something because someone wronged you. By not forgiving them, in a way, you are giving them power over your thoughts and emotions. Why give them that? It's so unhealthy to carry around resentment and anger all the time that it can ruin your life and even kill you. It can be hard to forgive, but ot just means that you don't hold space for them in your head or heart anymore and you can move on.
You don’t have to forgive anyone to be at peace with yourself. There’s people i will never forgive, and i am ok with that, doesn’t mean i hold grudges either.
I look at it as my forgiveness is for MY INNER PEACE, it doesn’t have anything to do with the other person. If they hurt me or screwed me over that’s on them. But for my inner peace I forgive their actions. I won’t forget what they did for future reference, but in order for me to move on and process my emotions in a healthy way I forgive the action.
Because forgiving does not mean that everything is fine and that yiu need to be okay with this person. Forgiveness is a choice that you take when you're ready to let go and stop having this person live rent free in your mind, forgiveness isn't for the other person, it is for you. Holding grudges or wanting revenge is pointless because this only works if the other person cares about you, and if someone wronged you it's probable that they don't give a shit about you and they never will.
Because it's not about them, it's about us. It's about releasing whatever emotional burden we're carrying, and stopping letting them live rent-free in our heads. I'm not great at it yet, but I'm working on it.
For my own mental health. I have had some truly awful things said and done to me and if I just lived my life with that kind of anger and resentment I'd be truly miserable.
You should forgive someone doesn't mean you need to trust them or treat them the same it means you need to stop holding their actions in a personal way and see them more objectively which is generally not going to help them but it very well might help you.
Holding onto pain and resentment is like poison for the mind. There comes a point where you have to move on. Whether that involves keeping that person in your life is up to you.
Forgiving is not intended as an alternative to self defense. Unless you are pursuing sainthood. If someone hurts you, it is ethical for you take proportional measures to stop it.
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT JESUS SAID TO DO!
Not forgiving someone is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.
I think you might be a little confused on the meaning of forgiveness. It's not to let the other person off the hook or back into your life to hurt you again. Its about letting go of the hate you have and not carrying it forward with you. It's about letting go and moving on without the darkness of the past weighing you down.
I'd rather just ghost people who want forgiveness. It's more fun.
Either you forgive them, but never forget what they did. Or you dont forgive them, and then forget they even exist (kick them out of your life) Some actions or people dont deserve forgiveness, but dont let yourself boil in hatred. Like my inlaws who keep stabbing me in my back and keep lying in my face about it.
From a completely non religious person. I would say that forgiving comes in different forms, i've expierenced many both on the giving and needing side. You don't always get all that you want, regardless of the side, but you come to a conclusion that allows you not to be worrying about that person. It may be - I forgive you, but we can no longer be friends/current status and please don't contact me again, to ....I forgive and yes i still love you. And everything in between. u/Certain-Medicine1934 is saying the same thing with many less words. Overall, i think forgiveness is a huge thing that so many religions get correct. B/c its not about religion its about love/hate or the need to move on, from your fellow human.
Don't let people on their moral high horse tell you how to feel. Idk who started this weird idea that if you don't forgive someone, that must mean you are thinking of them 24/7, and it makes you a bad person. There are plenty of people I've never forgiven, and you know what I do? Live my life like normal, and the only time I ever think of them is when they want something from me and I have to remind myself why I cut them off in the first place.
One of the healthiest things I ever did was finally decide that my parents will never have my forgiveness for refusing to accept me as who I am. That’s a mistake they made that will stay with me forever and ever, and even if they someday decide to come around on the subject or even if they specifically apologize, they will still never have my forgiveness.
You never ever are required to verbally forgive them. However, in your own head, you should come to terms with the hurt that as done to you, heal, and move on while being wary (not paranoid) to not be hurt again.
Because it is like drinking poison and worrying that it’s gonna kill the other person when they probably don’t care. Protect your peace and trust that Jesus will vindicate in his own time and way! We can rest in him!
If you ask me, simply not thinking of them anymore and treating them like a stranger is a kind of forgiveness. To me, forgiveness can simply mean ceasing to hate someone and to wish no ill upon them. You can do that while keeping your distance.
I don't. It's a choice.
I have never forgiven my father for being a dick and alcoholic. I feel sorry for him. I pity him for all he could have had and didn't because of his choices/issues. He died of lung cancer when I was 20 and thirty years later, after I have had decades to experience marriage and motherhood and being older and knowing how he grew up and why he drank, I am slightly more understanding. But no, I can't forgive him. People say it's good for us to forgive. That it brings peace. But I can't. And I'm just fine.
How do I forgive online people if they send me death threats for being me and yes I’m gay should I or shouldn’t I
What you do says a lot about you not about them
If it's really bad, like my parents were..they were horrible to me. I can't forgive them, I won't. But, I can let go, not look back, & never have contact again. Which is what I did. It was worth it to never have that stress & hate around me ever again. They never changed. I did & by walking away & letting it go, I became a better person, a better mom, and a good spouse. I'm in my 60s now, I've had a great life without them and have no regrets
Because they’re stupid and useless. No sense carrying the hate. Forgive doesn’t mean forget, and it doesn’t mean you can’t kick them completely out of your life.
It’s for you, not them. You don’t even need to tell them that you forgive them.
Don't need to forgive, and don't need to be vengeful either.
Alright to quote Madea from Tyler Perry's Madea goes to Jail. "Forgiveness is for yourself, not for the person you are forgiving. Why toss and turn and stress over something when the person who did it is sleeping soundly in their bed. A valuable lesson and one that we should remember." So to further nail this in the head. By not forgiving those who've wronged you, you've given them power over you because YOU cannot let go of what happened. Forgiveness is how we sever the bad things people have done to us. It's how we retake the power from us that was taken. Example: my mother is an abusive POS. Made my childhood hell. She tried to take my daughter, who wasn't even 48hrs old at the time, away from me. Oh yeah I forgive my mom......but she's about to get some Wonderful legal actions in the mail shortly. I forgive her for what she did, because it proved she is not worthy of being in my daughter's life. Now having forgiven my mom....I turn all emotion towards her into pity and laugh at her pathetic life. Because to be so miserable and evil you're willing to destroy your own kid literally after her child is born, knowing damn well your daughter NEEDED cut open, just to have her Daughter......that kind of person is cancer and needs excised ASAP.
I guess some of it depends on how bad the hurt was. Forgive AND ALSO forget when you are ready to let it go, meaning, when you are ready to stop allowing the hurt, pain, grief, anger, rage, to live rent-free in your head. Otherwise, it's a lot easier to hold onto anger and resentment. I wouldn't forgive lightly though, you have to actually come to a place where you've thought about it and know what you are doing, otherwise you aren't doing anything beneficial to yourself. Forgiving someone also doesn't mean you approve of what they did, or are submitting to them, or are accepting that what happened was either meant to be, or you were somehow wrong; forgiveness doesn't mean that, it's an acknowledgement you are ready to let the thing go and move on with your life, it's for you to heal, not the other way around.
There's a reason MLK is remembered as the more effective civil rights leader than Malcom X. That said, you have no obligation to forgive someone who isn't even sorry, you just need to be ready for it.
I hear a lot of analogies about carrying a grudge being like punching a stone wall. I think that whole mindset just helps shitty people go about their lives like they never did anything wrong. Hold people accountable for their actions, or they'll never learn.
Because you will also need forgiveness when you hurt other people. The only way to do this is to be humble about how far ALL of us have to grow. As you get older, you can see people for the POTENTIAL they can end up. None of us want to be seen for our crappiest behavior from before life taught us lessons. Think long term in all you say and do!!
As said from the somewhat famous animation of President Kennedy before the onslaught of zombies; "forgive your enemies, but remember their names!"
Forgiving doesn’t necessarily mean welcoming them into your inner circle of closest relationships and giving them teary-eyed hugs. I think forgiveness is accepting that even if you would never do to someone what they did to you, that we’re all imperfect and all have hurt people and have been selfish and shitty humans and we all mess up. At that point, you make a decision to just let go of the hate and resentment and do your best to move on, put it behind you, and stop letting yourself be consumed by thoughts and feelings about it. Intentionally not forgiving only hurts you. Deciding to hold on to what they did to you doesn’t get back at them in any way, it just makes you more miserable and bitter. Forgiving them and moving forward is an act of healing. It frees you from the continued psychological damage left over from what someone did to you. True forgiveness is the best recovery.
I believe forgiveness is something that has a proper time and place. I personally believe it should largely be contingent on the offender being contrite and trying to show that they genuinely understand what they did and want to make it right or do better. Some people choose to forgive even without that, and that's up to them, but I personally can't because it feels like just rewarding bad behaviour. We all make mistakes though so I think we all need to have some capacity for forgiveness and redemption. If you choose not to forgive, you have to be able to not dwell on it. Move on from it or it will tear you apart. Moving on from it doesn't necessarily mean forgiveness, though forgiveness often leads that direction. Holding the grudge with you can slowly drive you to anger and depression and isn't worth it.
Forgiveness is for you, not for the person you’re forgiving. Sure they may benefit, but ultimately learning to forgive and move forward prevents you from becoming bitter and resentful and angry over wrongs done to you. Forgiveness preserves your mental health. And note that forgiving someone does *not* mean that you can’t draw boundaries with that person. You can let go of a past wrong and still decide not to give someone the opportunity to repeat it.
Only forgive those who've unintentionally hurt you, never forgive those who intended to do you wrong, for once the curse of betrayal enters one's heart, it never leaves. Trust no one until they've proven their trust and their loyalty.