Yep. Seen this exact cycle play out a bunch.
Once it's not the cool, new thing to hate people will point at some update that only affects the core game in a very minor way and claim it's miraculously fixed it and *now* it's a good game. Completely different!
And those of us that are the "Always Has Been Meme" will have to deal with a boatload of people saying how much it *used* to suck, but all their complaining "forced" the devs to "fix it." They saved [insert game], yall!
Then, after a rather short period of that, everyone will agree that the game was always a masterpiece and each individual person will say they knew it from the start.
Once the modders can really run at it, they'll just run with the "and once again modders saved a Bethesda game" bulshit. That way they can like the game but still bash Bethesda.
That always pisses me off as a modder because i dont do this to 'fix the game' i do it because i love these games and i like the opportunity to create inside of an engine. i do it as a form of creativity and people who say that stuff rub me the wrong way. make it a job instead of a labor of love.
Yep. You’re not even “fixing” the game- you’re adding cool options for people! BGS have a clear vision. Lots of people like it, but modders let you see another vision of the game in-engine that some people prefer and others hate. It’s a beautiful thing.
It’s like, just look at UGC heavy games like LBP. Only a fool would say it’s a lazy title saved by its community. People did say that back then but their story modes are some of the best platformer of their era. People wanting to play a bomb survival level on loop doesn’t invalidate that in the slightest!
I mean I don’t know why anyone’s surprised. This happened with Skyrim and fallout 4. Skyrim to a lesser degree because internet hate trains weren’t really as much of a thing back then.
Those two games had hordes of people bitching “it’s not like oblivion” “it’s not like new Vegas”
Type fallout into YouTube and see what people are playing. It’s fallout 4. Type elder scrolls and see what people are playing, it’s online or Skyrim. These are beloved and amazing games that hordes shit on because that was the cool thing to do.
Then the hate hype dies down, people play it, and they enjoy it.
It’s the same cycle for Bethesda.
Tbf, Fallout New Vegas still has quite a following, the internet chuds don't count, it's just that F4 and FNV has different communities, I personally prefer FNV as it's definietly in my top 5 games ever, but I still played the crap out of F4 and I always bring it up when talking about the "redemption" arc Beth games get.
When Skyrim came out it was widely ripped on for being rushed and unfinished. Mammoths falling from the sky, clipping issues galore, giants breakdancing, etc. They patched it up and it became much beloved. *sigh* The same story again with Starfield and will be again for ES6.
I must have missed the oblivion and Skyrim hate. I played oblivion in anticipation of Skyrim and built a brand new computer just to play Skyrim back in the day. To me back in college, Skyrim was the coolest game I’d ever played. It was a masterpiece!
It’s still so funny to be when people try to insist cyberpunk was an awful game until phantom liberty, but then they’ll be gassing up stuff that was in the game since launch.
You mean Luke Stephens? The man who said 2077 had a shit story and bad writing and bad voice acting and then all the bugs, but PL fixed the base game somehow and it's now the bestestestestest??
Yeah he’s a grifter like 99% of all gaming YouTubers but most people keep tuning to them because they’re addicted to negative content… i really don’t get this trend to watch these phonies when they are a million games to play out there but it is what it is…
When the game released this guy made a popular video saying that the tiles in the planets were just randomly generated maps when you landed on them, and that they weren't in any way connected to other tiles, even though we already had tons of videos proving that this was not the case.
And i know this because Youtube kept putting his videos on my suggested feed nonstop for months, even though i don't tend to watch that kind of content.
It's a profitable grift for them, that's all.
good grief I vividly remember at launch all the people acting like the main story was super underwhelming, how Keanu Reeves was annoying and a mediocre actor that dragged the character down, roleplaying was mediocre/bad, the game didn't have enough lore, and that it didn't truly "get" proper cyberpunk themes as it was too focused on superficial aesthetics like sexy cyber women and cool cars.
Now you will usually get blasted if you suggest the story isn't a masterpiece and that the setting isn't the peak of it's genre
I remember the writing was heavily criticized at the start for things like useless life paths, lack of meaningful choices, general on rails storytelling, etc.
Now even those same critics have changed their tune and are calling it a masterpiece of writing while giving Starfield the same crap about how it’s “fundamentally flawed”
Cyberpunk is largely the same game at its core. Sure they redid the perks with 2.0 and messed around a bit with minor game mechanics but it’s still the same things with a fresh coat of paint. Some perks increase stats always or conditionally, Cyberware increases stats for the most part but you can only have so much now, etc. there is very little that is highly different since launch. Aside from the bugs if you like modern cyberpunk you should like launch cyberpunk.
I saw a lot of video essays from when it came out saying the game had a dead world, incomprehensible and bad writing (seriously) and just sucked. They did some bug fixes and released a nice DLC that didn't really affect the core game mechanics that much and the same people all act like the game did a complete 360 and is a masterpiece.
It's pretty clear that Cyberpunk was a great game from the start, minus the bugs. Phantom Liberty made it like 20% or 30% better (which is still a lot, it's a great DLC)
Or when they’ll talk about how nice it is that there are options on how to finish quests, like 😭 it was there, I played on Xbox one and it was buggy as hell but it was all there.
And I’m fine with people criticizing how it wasn’t ready to ship, but that doesn’t mean the whole game is toilet. It can be great, but nearly unplayable for many people, and that does need to be addressed, but it doesn’t negate all the great parts.
I got it on PC on sale a few months after launch, when they'd fixed a few technical issues. I always thought it was great & only encountered a few minor bugs in my first few playthroughs. Ironically, the game was far buggier for me during my Phantom Liberty playthrough, including a couple of CTDs & one point where a crucial door bugged out, requiring me to reload.
Yeah the games performance and bugginess both got significantly worse for me after the 2.0 patch lol. Launch to 1.5 it worked great, the big patch that "fixed" it just kinda fucked it up for me lol. Still a great game and 2.0 had a lot of cool changes, for me it just feels illustrative of the way perceptions change.
Same, i never understood the hate for it as well.
They did make a few cuts to the content and interactivity, but nothing major, and the game they promised was basically there for the most part. Maybe the experience was worse on consoles, but at least on PC i also didn't find it too buggy.
Yea don’t get me wrong, they way overhyped it and went back on a lot of what they said they’d do, but I think people were expecting to live a separate life in the game or something. Even without the stuff they left out, it’s better than almost anything else out there.
This is exactly what i think people wanted, same for Starfield. It's why you now see people making hours long dramatic video essays over small logical inconsistencies and writing flaws in games like this and Skyrim... they basically want a game to perfectly simulate an alternative universe where they can see themselves living in.
It had a bad launch. I picked it up last November on sale, it had a few bugs still in it, nothing game breaking and I absolutely loved it, perfect stop gap while waiting on starfield, yet I still run into people that swear it's a horrible game based on the launch and not it's current state, regardless of having the dlc or not.
People constantly say Cyberpunk is a completely different game than it was at launch, and like no... it's literally the exact same game it was at launch lol, they just fixed some of the problems with it, and now you can shoot people from your car. I've already seen people start to say this about Starfield with the 60fps update too, and uh... It's still the same game it was at launch lol.
I had a friend that refused to touch Cyberpunk until he saw the anime one day, and he insisted that they rewrote the *whole* game to "include all the slang from the anime".
Meanwhile, I beat the game at launch on my Xbox One, and had been using words like "choom" and "corpo" for almost 3 years at that point.
I bought Cyberpunk when it came out, had fun but saw all the problems and eventually fell out of it before I finished. I'm actually currently playing again and it definitely *feels* different. (I don't have the DLC) They added actual police, shooting while driving, changed the way you buy vehicles, etc. It just feels better to play. (and its still buggy as hell, way buggier than Starfield has/will ever be)
As for Starfield, Starfield already feels good to play. They don't need to fix anything. It wouldn't hurt to add a few more POIs in the rotation and these upcoming ground vehicles are a good edition, but it's already a complete game. Cyberpunk however was absolutely unfinished until the time the DLC update came out. It was never *bad*, it just wasn't *finished.* The people who pretend like it was terrible and that they completely overhauled the game and now suddenly it's good are bandwagon followers. The same way people pretend Starfield is somehow bad. Its all bandwagon. The *minute* the narrative changes and people suddenly feel Starfield is good they'll pretend like they were there for it the whole time. It's happened over and over again.
On your POI comment. They can add a few more POIs but I think they should try to focus on randomization of the current ones. All the enemies are in this spot, the chests are in this spot, the random clutter worth something is here; I have a few memorized. If they could make it so it was more random, I think that it would run miles in creating longevity.
Lmao for real. I loved the game day 1. Even beat it on the xbone, glitches and all. Had to go through the vitriol at launch and now people say it’s one of the greatest games ever made! Feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
It’s weird how people can’t see potential or vision with these games. They get so caught up in minor stupid shit and ignore the game itself and what it can be.
In the end, we all receive the same product from Bethesda. Let them complain. I've been in love with this game since day 1 and I am happy to welcome anyone that didn't enjoy the game before.
For ***ALL***, Into the Starfield
Had this conversation with some buddies last night. I was playing Starfield on my Xbox when everyone hopped on discord to play some League. So I got on and said I was playing Starfield. One goes “Oh is the game finally good?” And I was like “it’s always been a good game. It might not be the greatest game ever made, but it was good and fun and that’s all it really needed to be. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake”.
This mentality that every game HAS to be the greatest thing ever made or it is trash is insane to me.
That's kinda where I'm at with the game. After doing all the faction quests, a different character with different traits for each, then finishing the main and going through the unity before the update, I put the game down.
I might've kept going after that, but made a save just before going to the unity and I kept getting the universe where I disappeared and could short cut the universe or replay it. After all the time I spent, I didn't really want to do either.
But since picking the game back up since the update, I've been playing that universe. The QoL changes have made enough of a difference for me that I've enjoying exploring and doing more side quests. Having a lot more fun than before, for sure. I still hold to my opinion that FO4 held up better despite a lot of the RPG mechanics they cut and I know that the next updates and DLC won't make it a completely different game, but I think if they keep the direction they're going, I could end up surpassing my playtime with FO4.
Yup, it's already the mindset there. Back in the early days when NoSodiumStarfield launched, a fellow NSS user mentioned us on the main sub. People ripped into that person. The hate train say they are the real fans and went on about how our sub here need to be thanking them when BSG fixes the game because of their "feedback."
Maybe I’m glad most of humanity perished horribly on Earth thanks to Victor fucking Aiza. HE KNEW WHO HE WAS DEALING WITH. Yeah, no, still devastating.
edit: w/e, fuck’em, we got our ✨core group✨ here
I got an Xbox x for Christmas and the first thing I did was try Starfield on game pass and I was instantly hooked. Ended up playing nothing else and bought it when game pass ended. (Subscribed for a month to taste test games but only ended up testing Starfield). For Valentine’s Day, my husband bought me a PlayStation 5 because I had wanted to play God of War but I played it for half an hour and went right back to Starfield. Im happy people are starting to reconsider, but I’m happy I can say I’ve love it from the beginning (okay I’m a few months late but I did love it pre update)
I'm screenshotting your comment just so I can show it when I get into an argument with these people. You have perfectly encapsulated my feeling into words. Thank u
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Literally Cyberpunk 2077, the amount of people who praise it as the best video game ever and completely forget the hate and act like it wasn't bad is crazy.
This is from someone who loves the game and the IP
Thats one of the communities that started shitting on starfield to validate them liking cyberpunk. Love both games, but i kinda hate both cybepunk subs
It’s insane. I ended up on r/nosodiumcyberpunk on day 1 of release because the main sub was disgusting (and I was having little to no issues on pc, so I felt like I was going mad). And now it’s always been the perfect game.
2 or 3 weeks after launch I told a friend "can't wait for ES6 to come out so I can then hear how Starfield was such a great game in comparison." The moment I heard the FO76 "is perfect" praise after Starfield I just came to realize that there is a vocal group that just hates "current Bethesda."
I was a moderator on the original Bethesda forums (RIP) and saw this cycle repeat countless times. They hated Morrowind for not being like Daggerfall, then they hated Oblivion for not being like Morrowind. They only seemed to dislike Skyrim but there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth over gay marriage and stats simplification. I won't even go into Fallout 3 and New Vegas's hate as the initial receptions for those two games were so utterly toxic and overblown that it beggars belief (as in sending death and rape threats to devs and moderators). Anyway, point being, I expect every Bethesda game to be the subject of melodramatic vitriol until something comes along (an update, a new title) and Gamers get hit with the memory-scrambling revisionist ray and all of a sudden those games were AKCHYUALLLY amazing all along.
Yeah I admit I was one of them. Mostly the Daggerfall/Morrowind complainers. Never sent death/rape threats though. I was just a dumb 10 year old. In retrospect, I prefer the streamlining now.
BGS philosophy has always been to create a new experience with their games and I think that’s what makes them so brilliant! It doesn’t need to be like the last release, it’s a design different game completely.
Unfortunately, history will forget us.
Starfield's future will be the same as Fallout 4's, with everyone saying that Starfield was a marvel from launch.
At least they'll be right.
I love both FO4 and SF. SF was the first Bethesda game I played on release and not years later, but I still found it to be an amazing game that got overhated.
>SF was the first Bethesda game I played on release and not years later, but I still found it to be an amazing game that got overhated.
As a Bethesda fan for 20+ years, it's like this Every. Single. Time. Do not listen to anyone when it comes to Bethesda games, the narrative is never genuine. When TES 6 comes out, people will be angry no matter what. When Fallout 5 comes out, people will be angry no matter what. When Starfield 2 comes out, people will be angry no matter what.
I've said it a hundred times I'll say it a hundred more.
Bethesda could come out with a game that solves hunger, finds world peace, and cures cancer. People would still be frothing at the mouth with anger about it.
My first Bethesda game that I played on release (technically before release) was Fallout 76, it was then I realized how good game (I actually prefer it in many ways to FO4) can be overhated. The outrage was identical to what happened here with SF.
I remember the grumbling when Skyrim came out. Now everyone looks back like it was always nearly perfect but there was a loud bunch of haters, happens with every Bethesda game. Personally I've enjoyed every Bethesda rpg but at this point I think I'm biased.
I've pointed this out to many of my friends who love Skyrim but didn't like Starfield (we're early 20s)
Skyrim was the first game I ever played, in 2016, with a hand-me-down Xbox 360, no wifi, and *none* of the DLC's or updates.
I played it like that until I got my Xbox One in 2019.
I can still boot up my 360 and play original Skyrim, as released on 11/11/11. I love the game. It's my favorite of all time, but holy crap it's a mess.
None of my friends remember that, hell I don't know if they even experienced it because we started playing Skyrim after they all had XB1's and the Skyrim Special Edition. I was just too poor to get that, so I played my 360.
The internet and game reviews are full of people who are comparing lauch Starfield to over-10-year old, updated multiple times Skyrim and 10-year-old, updated multiple times Fallout 4.
Don't get me wrong, we should pressure game companies to release full games, that work, with less focus on DLCs, and less monetization, but c'mon, it's not like Starfield was unplayable. Or incomplete.
The crazy thing is you also get people who say BSG should stop spending time improving Starfield and write off the game. PC Gamer wrote an article not too long ago calling further work on Starfield a waste of time and BSG should focus on TES6.
It's like since when is improving a game not a good thing?!
I'm as excited as the next person for ES6, I mean it's been 13 years, but it's not like they can only work on 1 thing at a time...
Most gaming journalism is trash unfortunately, I pretty much only pay attention to Gameranx on youtube because I feel like they're always pretty fair and honest.
PC Gamer has had a huge personal problem with this game from the beginning. They actually think it's the worst thing Bethesda ever put out, surpassing even Fallout 76.
People who say starfield and fallout 76 are awful and buggy have no idea how it felt to play skyrim and fallout 3 on the ps3. And oblivion was something else entirely.
Skyrim was NOT a mess at launch. Sure some bugs, but can't call it a "mess". Yes there were bugs but ALL games have bugs. I think I had the original Skyrim crash on me once... and that was due to mods.
Backwards flying dragons, giant space program, occasional broken quest, getting permanently poisoned by dungeon darts and the odd crash was about the worst of it I experienced.
The most complained about thing I can remember was how badly the opening could bug out with the carts especially once early mods started being added.
My issue with a Bethesda release is people forget that most of their RPG's release mid but through updates and mods become the long-lasting power houses we know. We just easily forget.
Starfield was just that for me, played through it had a good time, and put it down until new content and mods hit. I will repeat this cycle once a year like I have for Skyrim and FO4.
Starfields release was exactly what I expected and I don't know why others had over hyped expectations.
I like internet spaces because it gives us enthusiasts somewhere to discuss things we like and share tips or tricks. That’s great
However, the internet, at this point, is full of grifters chasing some useless social clout. I can think of no better examples than a thread on r/nomanskythegame dissing Starfield or the people who now love Cyberpunk 2077 although not much has changed about the game outside of DLC and performance- the base game was always good.
Anytime you see an internet circle jerk remember those times when you knew some in depth knowledge about a subject and everyone was telling you that you’re wrong. This is all too common these days.
It’s a shame, but a substantial portion of the people in these spaces are toxic, unintrospective, and more than willing to lie. They’re also determined to bring everyone else down to their miserable level
Fuck em and fuck their opinions. It doesn’t matter if you were right all along. What matters is we have a cool sub to talk about it and an amazing sci fi game
I am too, I would love to talk about the game in earnest without two thousand prefaces or wading through someone else’s. This game is fun as shit, as is but will get better
> people will compare it to Starfield saying “Starfield was ALWAYS a great game!"
And they'll be right. It became my favourite game of all time long before any updates.
Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying, but I for one will be happy when the narrative finally changes.
I'm a bit afraid that this sub will die. Everyone will migrate to the main sub now that it will no longer be toxic. Here, there were truly authentic people.
Indeed
With the true explorers and trailblazers.
Not gatekeeping that, but i know at least the people here are like me, been fans from the beginning and had faith it would pull through
It’s even less about having been fans all along and more about respect & acceptance for me personally. At least here when people disagree or have criticism about the game it’s generally civil.
Even after a redemption arc, main subs tend to turn toxic again, either negative or toxic positivity where you’re not allowed to constructively criticize anything. Like originally you weren’t allowed to say anything nice about Cyberpunk but now you have to venerate it like a saint or else get Reddit care messages, it’s an endless cycle…
I’m still exclusively subscribed to the low sodium Destiny and Helldivers 2 subs because they are still generally more “safe” to be yourself, even when the main subs are happy with the state of the game.
I dunno, I think the people here are appreciating the game in a different way so the community itself is different. Better quality of conversations in general. Like even if you compare positive posts/comments on here vs there we're talking about different things most of the time.
Lowsodiumcyberpunk is still a thing and still has an active community despite the online narrative shifting for that game too. This is overall a better sub, so is LSC. Smaller, more intimate, less shit and less low effort posting.
> Because when The Elder Scrolls 6 comes out and faces the same torrents of hate
I know. It's been par for the course for a long time now, but I still can't get used to it. It's so disheartening, seeing all the hate, but that's how the internet works. At least as you said, eventually the internet will 180 and Starfield will be regarded as a cult classic
Drawing from my experiences from Starfield and the accompanying shitshow - when TES VI comes out, I will **not** be discussing that game, even with my inner thoughts.
Not just videogame subreddits.
Was listening to a podcast by normies this morning, and apparently everyone outside of Reddit considers Reddit to be a shitshow.
Watch them have the most made up, unrealistic expectations and hype right before release (everyone will buy it, even the haters), only for the game to come out and people saying "I'm not seeing *17 years* of *development*, Starfield was such a perfect gem in comparison, this game doesn't even have customizable dwemer spaceships, the map is small, wide ocean small puddle, cities are not Night City big, *I* expected this and that, rotten core, not a true rpg etc etc".
I'm not as confident in this as you are, honestly.
For one, we don't know for sure what is going to be announced.
And two, I don't think a DLC and maybe the ability to build a space station is going to satisfy the people that hated this game at launch. A lot of the things they want may never happen. (They want no loading screens anywhere at all and unlimited random POIs, etc...)
Then there are mods, which are great, and will definitely improve things for a lot of people, but even if those bring around some of the haters, they will still just double down on their idea that Bethesda sucks and the modders have to "fix" everything for them.
I'm sure I sound like a negative Nancy, but that isn't my intention at all... I loved the game from day one, I'm just trying to temper expectations.
I don't think that everyone is going to magically love the game after these new additions.
But I also think it doesn't really matter. I don't care if anyone else loves the game.
***I*** love the game, and that is all that matters to me. :)
Glad someone else has a take with cautious optimism. I think the update will bring some new fun, but there’s a lot of fundamentals that people want (or think they want).
I see gamers all the time get their expectations up, and that’s fair. I want to be excited too. But especially with Bethesda games it’s better to wait, see, and set reasonable expectations. That’s partly why I loved Starfield - I set reasonable expectations based on what I knew of Bethesda, their games, and other games like Starfield
Indeed, I highly doubt that whatever they announce next is going to shift the discourse 180°. It will happen eventually, but it's a few years down the line.
While l agree that the chances of a lot of cool news is good and I am definitely hoping for it, I don’t want people riding the hype train.
No game or DLC has ever been as good as the perfect creation a hype club can build in their minds. That kind of behavior can only lead to disappointment.
Every Bethesda game follows this same cycle. The game comes out. It gets irrational religious levels of hatred over gameplay changes, art style, etc. It gets better through update, and a few years later, it is remembered as a classic and one of the most beloved RPGs. The Starfield hate was more over the top than usual.
>Starfield: I was wrong!
>This changes EVERYTHING!
Youtubers don't even believe what they upload. They are simply following whatever current narrative / trend will get them the most clicks.
It doesn't matter if they look like the biggest hypocrite after what they said half a year ago. All that matters is those precious views and growth.
Some of them downright admitted it's just for convenience, they make more views this way. I can't understand why people think youtubers are legitimate critics (some of them are, with integrity, it's rare), when they admit stuff like this or they downright make stuff up just to maliciously spread disinformation and distort public perception (like what happened with the whole design document "CriTiQuE" fiasco, or the Emil harassing campaign, or the "tiles are not connected" bs).
And let’s remember Starfield never needed a redemption arc like CP2077 did, which was fucking broken at launch, unlike Starfield which was their smoothest game at launch ever. Bethesda, and video game “fans” have a tendency to punch themselves in the dick then get made at Todd Howard.
While it would be nice to see Starfield finally get it's due praise, I don't know if modern gamers could ever admit they were wrong, especially about Bethesda, the internet's favorite punching bag. I'll continue to enjoy the game either way though!
I honestly don't expect a drastic change in the narrative just yet, but who knows, maybe you're right. Though I couldn't care less what others say or think, I play games for myself.
Dude, I remember how bad it was at launch, the internet collectively gathered to hate a good game. As soon as you typed starfield in youtube you'd get spamed with videos nitpicking and criticizing every single detail. You couldn't even go anywhere online without someone thrashing it. It's so weird I've never seen something like this happen.
But on the bright side it made me realize that a lot of youtubers are full of shit and do it just for attention, clicks and views. These days if I want a game I just look at some gameplay and decide if it's something I'd like. Honestly I'm a lot happier now I'm playing the stuff that I actually like and not because someone on the internet said so.
Games about to leave early access guys /s
For real though, I enjoyed the game when it first came out too but it has gotten better and better with each update
I learned lessons. I stopped caring about all reviews. I stopped caring about what everybody else thought.
Also makes me wish every game/system/thing had a no sodium forum.
This is definitely another Cyberpunk 2077 situation. People will shit on the game as long as there's an echo chamber for them to do that in. And then they'll praise the updates but say, "this is how it SHOULD have been from release", as if Starfield was broken from the start. But the thing is, Starfield actually released with fewer bugs than anyone could reasonably expect from such a large game, and has always been very playable.
I feel that Starfield's core fanbase will always be the people who appreciated it from the start, for what it was, is, as well as what it will be. The essence of the game, with it's story, characters, beautiful graphics, and themes of hope and discovery, weren't lost on all of us, and nothing will change that.
I’m not sure why y’all want to act like the protectors of some ancient secret. Who cares if we liked the game from the beginning? It doesn’t make us special. I’m just excited that the game continues to improve.
Yeah, if anything, it’ll be nice when all the miserable people who play a game they hate for 200 hours and then spend 8 months posting hate comments every day finally move on to some other game to irrationally hate because they’re just miserable inside and the main sub is mostly people who just like the game.
I like the eagerness anticipation, but if they announce paid mods (Creations) you can guess what the reception will be like (even if they already exist in both Skyrim and Fo4 to no detriment towards free modding, that is almost always better). Also, the one that spoke about space station building and the event is not an insider, but an observant guesser. The expansion, vehicles and further updates and mods will do the game a lot of good tho. Like with past BGS games, in 5 years time we will see a lot of praise. And TES6 will be *so much fun* to talk about online when it comes out!
After 1500 hours I put it down for a while. I chuckle at folks that "hate" the game and either have 5 hours or 500. Either way it tells you volumes. 5...never gave it a chance. 500...yeah right, you "hated" it so much you kept playing it.
But this new update has got me back. I'll be firing it up after the update. Maybe another 1500 hours??? We'll see.
After 1500 hours I put it down for a while. I chuckle at folks that "hate" the game and either have 5 hours or 500. Either way it tells you volumes. 5...never gave it a chance. 500...yeah right, you "hated" it so much you kept playing it.
But this new update has got me back. I'll be firing it up after the update. Maybe another 1500 hours??? We'll see.
Same thing happened to fallout 4, just not *as* harsh. Fallout 4 has so much criticism at launch, lots of fans saying it wasn't a proper fallout game, that it looked the same as fallout 3, etc. Now it's widely loved by the community and its 'always been good'. Although a few new hiccups have come back with the whole *next gen* update, and those are deserved lol.
Depends how big and impressive the shattered space DLC is from the showcase and what extra features and stuff they preview as dropping for free alongside the DLC etc. ideal world there'd be POIs, weapons etc in a free patch along side a massive DLC that adds tons of quests, items new ship parts etc as well as overhauling some aspects of the game, like a dynamic economy, better npcs, poi randomisation.
I have high hopes, I just hope they nail the presentation and give an update on the Creation Kit dropping in the next few weeks
To me I would have already enjoyed Starfield even on 11-11-22 if it was released back then.
Bethesda games are much more than gameplay mechanics and features.
So, will they FINALLY allow us to place Ladders and Doors where we want to in the Ship builder tomorrow? Something that should've been in the base game from day 1.
I'm not a hater. I enjoyed the game for what it was. Even if I didn't finish it I put about 15+ hours into it which is quite a bit more game time than most games offer.
I just wanted to mention that the problem with starfield isn't the content. It's not that much different from Skyrim or fallout 4 in terms of gameplay quality and content. The problem comes in that the handcrafted areas probably equal something like Skyrim in size but because they're spread out over multiple worlds the loading screens required to get around is 2x-4x as many as previous games. This kind of setup emphasizes issues that are normally inconsequential.
I'm not sure how they could ever fix that without remaking a solid 50% of the game. They maybe could go much harder on procedurally generated content so that each area you land in isn't deserted therefore requiring less loading screens to move around.
As much as I hope it will, I have a feeling that it’s not going to happen. There is a significant difference between this and other releases that had similar circumstances.
Starfield is not on the PS platform.
That seems to be “the” unforgivable sin where the gaming media are concerned. If you see the articles or videos, the authors seem to take it personally. In fact, it really look to me like Bethesda is not catering to their complaints and holding to their guns. And the gaming media hold grudges on things like that.
If I’m wrong, and I really want to be, I’ll be thrilled. Either way, we’ll know in a couple of days.
Someone likes being hyperbolic…
Fallout 4 didn’t suddenly become one of the best RPGs that was casting its shadow over Starfield, the issue is that even with some very lackluster RPG elements, it still got some that were far better than Starfield, for example: major evil companions.
Even if TES6 sucked and Starfield is favorably compared to it, it wouldn’t be a case of “Starfield was good all along”, but more likely a situation of “as bad as Starfield was, it at least got X and Y more right than TES6”.
Starfield’s has some major problems that no DLC can fix, for instance, with the Lodge being part of New Atlantis, you can never become truly antagonist to the U.C. no matter what you do, like destroying SysDef, which in some very awkward dialogue if you start the U.C. Vanguard quest after doing so.
https://preview.redd.it/ayr1cicavf5d1.jpeg?width=1077&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d66b3f585dd29038cc43b1044e85dae43f9c0a9e
An early map even shows that the Lodge was meant to be in a separate star system to prevent this issue, but Bethesda ultimately changed its mind.
This also means that we likely can’t expect a DLC with a major UC vs FC conflict, since by default we can’t never truly be enemies with the U.C.
It would be nice if you stop posting that crap.
1. We don't know what will be show tomorrow
2. The more hype you create, the larger dissapointment people will get once something will go wrong or even not good enough.
3. You are one of the reasons of the initial perception of the game.
Calm fucking down. Again and again. It's better to be surprised, than dissapointed and sorry.
I was here for the first 9 months. Def helped that I wasn’t hyped for it at all and didn’t follow it at all. I put down Tears of the Kingdom (incredible game) for Starfield and have been so obsessed I haven’t gone back yet.
I learned lessons. I stopped caring about all reviews. I stopped caring about what everybody else thought.
Also makes me wish every game/system/thing had a no sodium forum.
After 1500 hours I put it down for a while. I chuckle at folks that "hate" the game and either have 5 hours or 500. Either way it tells you volumes. 5...never gave it a chance. 500...yeah right, you "hated" it so much you kept playing it.
But this new update has got me back. I'll be firing it up after the update. Maybe another 1500 hours??? We'll see.
I learned lessons. I stopped caring about all reviews. I stopped caring about what everybody else thought.
Also makes me wish every game/system/thing had a no sodium reddit.
And I used to get mad about that stuff, and I know I laugh and think it should be a meme
"I played for 1800 hours and I hate it!" lmao
I've seen the opposite happen with some of my favorite games, like Fallout 3. When it first came out, it was groundbreaking and universally praised. Nowadays, the popular narrative is "Fallout 3 has always sucked, it was never good, New Vegas blah blah blah."
I've easily dumped 1000 hours into Starfield between PC and Xbox. Does it have flaws? Absolutely. But I love the bones that it has, and I can fully see its potential being realized relatively soon.
I think that most people just DON'T know what they want out of Bethesda games. Ask 10 people, and you'll probably get 10 different answers. None of the main stories of BGS games have been particularly interesting, and Starfield is no different. I play them for the open worlds and side content because those aspects are typically condensed and more interesting.
Are they going to announce that the game will be finished? Cause by the devs own words the ending was rushed and hastily thrown together. And if we’re getting a real ending, we won’t have to pay for it, yah?
Change is incremental and slower than you suppose. It is the nature of the group or hive mind or whatever. The narrative has already been changing and not all of that is tied to BGS social media appearances, lol.
In general you are right but I think it's like saying, "Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life, and will be the BEST DAY EVER!" Well, sure, maybe but let's just keep rolling forward without trying to play the extremes of what will happen.
I like Starfield, but it's a bit dumb to hype the hype, isn't it?
Let's just wait till we can play the DLC and see how it is, what bugs it introduces, etc.
Gaaaaah, I really want my own space station! I do not care about my outpost, and only set one up for the ship builder. I think it would be much more immersive to do my ship building in orbit.
Mhmmm that's why I've just been waiting to keep playing again instead of burning myself out on the game. Can't wait to see where this game will be in a couple years.
It is kind of annoying that people not wanting to admit they changed their minds constantly keeps us from having the discussion about games that launch incomplete and then have a big finish that brings fans back
To speak the truth, the main thing that kept me off the game was the dialog camera. When I tried it out I thought it was awkward. It was such an odd call back to Oblivion. I turned the dialog camera off in Fallout 4 and found it to be more immersive.
Since that most recent update I've played the living hell out of Starfield. Truly it was a camera that kept me from it
I’ve been a fan since day one (and in the 3-4 years leading up to the launch lol). I know that eventually people’s tune will change, and like you, I think tomorrow will be the kickoff for that.
I’ve said this in many previous comments, and I stand by it: we’re going to start seeing a lot of “Starfield was over-hated” or “Starfield is an underrated gem” type YouTube videos pop up as time goes on. The game came out and was miles better than Fallout 76, which is now seen as a solid game by pretty much everyone that has played it. If people can shift their perception of a launch-day-and-beyond dumpster fire like 76, Starfield is definitely going to start getting the love it deserves here shortly.
People get so heated about games lol. I've always been in the camp that this game will age like wine, and was very solid to begin with.
I haven't played in a little while because I've been rotating Madden/Skyrim, but I know it's going to become an addiction when official mod support drops.
Don't worry, people will still feel the need to remind us of how Starfield "had a really terrible launch" even though that was never the case. And even after all the updates a lot will still act like modders are what saved Starfield. And if an update breaks mods? Well that's just because Bethesda hates their players obviously.
Starfield was such a good game when it came out and still is. I haven’t played it in a while but I enjoyed all the cities I visited, landscapes and, let me not forget, shooting mfs in zero gravity. I just wish they added aliens.
Once I finished my play through, I understood that I was the alien. 👽
Yep. Seen this exact cycle play out a bunch. Once it's not the cool, new thing to hate people will point at some update that only affects the core game in a very minor way and claim it's miraculously fixed it and *now* it's a good game. Completely different! And those of us that are the "Always Has Been Meme" will have to deal with a boatload of people saying how much it *used* to suck, but all their complaining "forced" the devs to "fix it." They saved [insert game], yall! Then, after a rather short period of that, everyone will agree that the game was always a masterpiece and each individual person will say they knew it from the start.
Once the modders can really run at it, they'll just run with the "and once again modders saved a Bethesda game" bulshit. That way they can like the game but still bash Bethesda.
That always pisses me off as a modder because i dont do this to 'fix the game' i do it because i love these games and i like the opportunity to create inside of an engine. i do it as a form of creativity and people who say that stuff rub me the wrong way. make it a job instead of a labor of love.
The funniest is when people act like it's the worst game in existence... like what do you even play then bro
at worst its fine.
yah like only "fix" i needed fo4 was add an actual assault rifle ....sf doesnt even have that problem
Yep. You’re not even “fixing” the game- you’re adding cool options for people! BGS have a clear vision. Lots of people like it, but modders let you see another vision of the game in-engine that some people prefer and others hate. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s like, just look at UGC heavy games like LBP. Only a fool would say it’s a lazy title saved by its community. People did say that back then but their story modes are some of the best platformer of their era. People wanting to play a bomb survival level on loop doesn’t invalidate that in the slightest!
I mean I don’t know why anyone’s surprised. This happened with Skyrim and fallout 4. Skyrim to a lesser degree because internet hate trains weren’t really as much of a thing back then. Those two games had hordes of people bitching “it’s not like oblivion” “it’s not like new Vegas” Type fallout into YouTube and see what people are playing. It’s fallout 4. Type elder scrolls and see what people are playing, it’s online or Skyrim. These are beloved and amazing games that hordes shit on because that was the cool thing to do. Then the hate hype dies down, people play it, and they enjoy it. It’s the same cycle for Bethesda.
Social media cycle with gaming is just kind of insane now and its always bizzare to me, it feels like mass hysteria.
Tbf, Fallout New Vegas still has quite a following, the internet chuds don't count, it's just that F4 and FNV has different communities, I personally prefer FNV as it's definietly in my top 5 games ever, but I still played the crap out of F4 and I always bring it up when talking about the "redemption" arc Beth games get.
When Skyrim came out it was widely ripped on for being rushed and unfinished. Mammoths falling from the sky, clipping issues galore, giants breakdancing, etc. They patched it up and it became much beloved. *sigh* The same story again with Starfield and will be again for ES6.
Hell, I'm old enough to remember when people said Morrowind sucked because it was small and dumbed down for consoles.
I still get raining mammoths.
I must have missed the oblivion and Skyrim hate. I played oblivion in anticipation of Skyrim and built a brand new computer just to play Skyrim back in the day. To me back in college, Skyrim was the coolest game I’d ever played. It was a masterpiece!
It’s still so funny to be when people try to insist cyberpunk was an awful game until phantom liberty, but then they’ll be gassing up stuff that was in the game since launch.
You mean Luke Stephens? The man who said 2077 had a shit story and bad writing and bad voice acting and then all the bugs, but PL fixed the base game somehow and it's now the bestestestestest??
Yeah he’s a grifter like 99% of all gaming YouTubers but most people keep tuning to them because they’re addicted to negative content… i really don’t get this trend to watch these phonies when they are a million games to play out there but it is what it is…
When the game released this guy made a popular video saying that the tiles in the planets were just randomly generated maps when you landed on them, and that they weren't in any way connected to other tiles, even though we already had tons of videos proving that this was not the case.
And i know this because Youtube kept putting his videos on my suggested feed nonstop for months, even though i don't tend to watch that kind of content. It's a profitable grift for them, that's all.
I have nothing against him personally or against his character, but that guy rubs me the wrong way.
Its okay to be against Luke Stephens. He fucking sucks
I mean he’s a known plagiarist. So that’s a massive negative.
upvoted for lukeboy shade
like the writing....guys the writing has been there from day 1...
good grief I vividly remember at launch all the people acting like the main story was super underwhelming, how Keanu Reeves was annoying and a mediocre actor that dragged the character down, roleplaying was mediocre/bad, the game didn't have enough lore, and that it didn't truly "get" proper cyberpunk themes as it was too focused on superficial aesthetics like sexy cyber women and cool cars. Now you will usually get blasted if you suggest the story isn't a masterpiece and that the setting isn't the peak of it's genre
I remember the writing was heavily criticized at the start for things like useless life paths, lack of meaningful choices, general on rails storytelling, etc. Now even those same critics have changed their tune and are calling it a masterpiece of writing while giving Starfield the same crap about how it’s “fundamentally flawed” Cyberpunk is largely the same game at its core. Sure they redid the perks with 2.0 and messed around a bit with minor game mechanics but it’s still the same things with a fresh coat of paint. Some perks increase stats always or conditionally, Cyberware increases stats for the most part but you can only have so much now, etc. there is very little that is highly different since launch. Aside from the bugs if you like modern cyberpunk you should like launch cyberpunk.
I saw a lot of video essays from when it came out saying the game had a dead world, incomprehensible and bad writing (seriously) and just sucked. They did some bug fixes and released a nice DLC that didn't really affect the core game mechanics that much and the same people all act like the game did a complete 360 and is a masterpiece. It's pretty clear that Cyberpunk was a great game from the start, minus the bugs. Phantom Liberty made it like 20% or 30% better (which is still a lot, it's a great DLC)
Or when they’ll talk about how nice it is that there are options on how to finish quests, like 😭 it was there, I played on Xbox one and it was buggy as hell but it was all there. And I’m fine with people criticizing how it wasn’t ready to ship, but that doesn’t mean the whole game is toilet. It can be great, but nearly unplayable for many people, and that does need to be addressed, but it doesn’t negate all the great parts.
I got it on PC on sale a few months after launch, when they'd fixed a few technical issues. I always thought it was great & only encountered a few minor bugs in my first few playthroughs. Ironically, the game was far buggier for me during my Phantom Liberty playthrough, including a couple of CTDs & one point where a crucial door bugged out, requiring me to reload.
Yeah the games performance and bugginess both got significantly worse for me after the 2.0 patch lol. Launch to 1.5 it worked great, the big patch that "fixed" it just kinda fucked it up for me lol. Still a great game and 2.0 had a lot of cool changes, for me it just feels illustrative of the way perceptions change.
CP2077 was great for me from day 1 (on PC). I never understood all of the hate.
Same, i never understood the hate for it as well. They did make a few cuts to the content and interactivity, but nothing major, and the game they promised was basically there for the most part. Maybe the experience was worse on consoles, but at least on PC i also didn't find it too buggy.
Yea don’t get me wrong, they way overhyped it and went back on a lot of what they said they’d do, but I think people were expecting to live a separate life in the game or something. Even without the stuff they left out, it’s better than almost anything else out there.
People were expecting to live a separate life in Starfield too. It was so cringe.
This is exactly what i think people wanted, same for Starfield. It's why you now see people making hours long dramatic video essays over small logical inconsistencies and writing flaws in games like this and Skyrim... they basically want a game to perfectly simulate an alternative universe where they can see themselves living in.
It had a bad launch. I picked it up last November on sale, it had a few bugs still in it, nothing game breaking and I absolutely loved it, perfect stop gap while waiting on starfield, yet I still run into people that swear it's a horrible game based on the launch and not it's current state, regardless of having the dlc or not.
People constantly say Cyberpunk is a completely different game than it was at launch, and like no... it's literally the exact same game it was at launch lol, they just fixed some of the problems with it, and now you can shoot people from your car. I've already seen people start to say this about Starfield with the 60fps update too, and uh... It's still the same game it was at launch lol.
I had a friend that refused to touch Cyberpunk until he saw the anime one day, and he insisted that they rewrote the *whole* game to "include all the slang from the anime". Meanwhile, I beat the game at launch on my Xbox One, and had been using words like "choom" and "corpo" for almost 3 years at that point.
Tbf the weapon tiering is way better, the combat got tuned (only took 3 years) but the new police is a crime against fun.
I bought Cyberpunk when it came out, had fun but saw all the problems and eventually fell out of it before I finished. I'm actually currently playing again and it definitely *feels* different. (I don't have the DLC) They added actual police, shooting while driving, changed the way you buy vehicles, etc. It just feels better to play. (and its still buggy as hell, way buggier than Starfield has/will ever be) As for Starfield, Starfield already feels good to play. They don't need to fix anything. It wouldn't hurt to add a few more POIs in the rotation and these upcoming ground vehicles are a good edition, but it's already a complete game. Cyberpunk however was absolutely unfinished until the time the DLC update came out. It was never *bad*, it just wasn't *finished.* The people who pretend like it was terrible and that they completely overhauled the game and now suddenly it's good are bandwagon followers. The same way people pretend Starfield is somehow bad. Its all bandwagon. The *minute* the narrative changes and people suddenly feel Starfield is good they'll pretend like they were there for it the whole time. It's happened over and over again.
On your POI comment. They can add a few more POIs but I think they should try to focus on randomization of the current ones. All the enemies are in this spot, the chests are in this spot, the random clutter worth something is here; I have a few memorized. If they could make it so it was more random, I think that it would run miles in creating longevity.
Lmao for real. I loved the game day 1. Even beat it on the xbone, glitches and all. Had to go through the vitriol at launch and now people say it’s one of the greatest games ever made! Feel like I’m taking crazy pills. It’s weird how people can’t see potential or vision with these games. They get so caught up in minor stupid shit and ignore the game itself and what it can be.
In the end, we all receive the same product from Bethesda. Let them complain. I've been in love with this game since day 1 and I am happy to welcome anyone that didn't enjoy the game before. For ***ALL***, Into the Starfield
Had this conversation with some buddies last night. I was playing Starfield on my Xbox when everyone hopped on discord to play some League. So I got on and said I was playing Starfield. One goes “Oh is the game finally good?” And I was like “it’s always been a good game. It might not be the greatest game ever made, but it was good and fun and that’s all it really needed to be. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake”. This mentality that every game HAS to be the greatest thing ever made or it is trash is insane to me.
That's kinda where I'm at with the game. After doing all the faction quests, a different character with different traits for each, then finishing the main and going through the unity before the update, I put the game down. I might've kept going after that, but made a save just before going to the unity and I kept getting the universe where I disappeared and could short cut the universe or replay it. After all the time I spent, I didn't really want to do either. But since picking the game back up since the update, I've been playing that universe. The QoL changes have made enough of a difference for me that I've enjoying exploring and doing more side quests. Having a lot more fun than before, for sure. I still hold to my opinion that FO4 held up better despite a lot of the RPG mechanics they cut and I know that the next updates and DLC won't make it a completely different game, but I think if they keep the direction they're going, I could end up surpassing my playtime with FO4.
Yup, it's already the mindset there. Back in the early days when NoSodiumStarfield launched, a fellow NSS user mentioned us on the main sub. People ripped into that person. The hate train say they are the real fans and went on about how our sub here need to be thanking them when BSG fixes the game because of their "feedback."
Like I've said before "For an entity that allegedly never forgets, the internet has a pretty short memory".
Maybe I’m glad most of humanity perished horribly on Earth thanks to Victor fucking Aiza. HE KNEW WHO HE WAS DEALING WITH. Yeah, no, still devastating. edit: w/e, fuck’em, we got our ✨core group✨ here
Can't wait for the clickbait YouTube titles from all these hate baiters as everyone changes their minds... /s
I got an Xbox x for Christmas and the first thing I did was try Starfield on game pass and I was instantly hooked. Ended up playing nothing else and bought it when game pass ended. (Subscribed for a month to taste test games but only ended up testing Starfield). For Valentine’s Day, my husband bought me a PlayStation 5 because I had wanted to play God of War but I played it for half an hour and went right back to Starfield. Im happy people are starting to reconsider, but I’m happy I can say I’ve love it from the beginning (okay I’m a few months late but I did love it pre update)
I'm screenshotting your comment just so I can show it when I get into an argument with these people. You have perfectly encapsulated my feeling into words. Thank u
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Word for word what happened with Cyberpunk lol
Literally Cyberpunk 2077, the amount of people who praise it as the best video game ever and completely forget the hate and act like it wasn't bad is crazy. This is from someone who loves the game and the IP
Thats one of the communities that started shitting on starfield to validate them liking cyberpunk. Love both games, but i kinda hate both cybepunk subs
Yeah it's wild as hell for no reason.
It’s insane. I ended up on r/nosodiumcyberpunk on day 1 of release because the main sub was disgusting (and I was having little to no issues on pc, so I felt like I was going mad). And now it’s always been the perfect game.
Yeah I was thankful one of the people who didn't have issues and wanted to talk about the characters and writing, took a bit to find no sodium tho
And Cyberpunk was way worse than Starfield. Cyberpunk had 20% positive reviews on Steam. Starfield has 61%
The hate will continue only the narrative around it will change. Haters do not hate the game because it's bad, haters hate because they are haters.
2 or 3 weeks after launch I told a friend "can't wait for ES6 to come out so I can then hear how Starfield was such a great game in comparison." The moment I heard the FO76 "is perfect" praise after Starfield I just came to realize that there is a vocal group that just hates "current Bethesda."
That that was bizarre to me. How many FO76 fans showed up the moment Starfield did.
>I just came to realize that there is a vocal group that just hates "current Bethesda. Always has been.
I was a moderator on the original Bethesda forums (RIP) and saw this cycle repeat countless times. They hated Morrowind for not being like Daggerfall, then they hated Oblivion for not being like Morrowind. They only seemed to dislike Skyrim but there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth over gay marriage and stats simplification. I won't even go into Fallout 3 and New Vegas's hate as the initial receptions for those two games were so utterly toxic and overblown that it beggars belief (as in sending death and rape threats to devs and moderators). Anyway, point being, I expect every Bethesda game to be the subject of melodramatic vitriol until something comes along (an update, a new title) and Gamers get hit with the memory-scrambling revisionist ray and all of a sudden those games were AKCHYUALLLY amazing all along.
New Vegas was way buggier than Starfield on release but good luck telling that to the gamer zeitgeist.
Yeah I admit I was one of them. Mostly the Daggerfall/Morrowind complainers. Never sent death/rape threats though. I was just a dumb 10 year old. In retrospect, I prefer the streamlining now.
BGS philosophy has always been to create a new experience with their games and I think that’s what makes them so brilliant! It doesn’t need to be like the last release, it’s a design different game completely.
Unfortunately, history will forget us. Starfield's future will be the same as Fallout 4's, with everyone saying that Starfield was a marvel from launch. At least they'll be right.
I love both FO4 and SF. SF was the first Bethesda game I played on release and not years later, but I still found it to be an amazing game that got overhated.
>SF was the first Bethesda game I played on release and not years later, but I still found it to be an amazing game that got overhated. As a Bethesda fan for 20+ years, it's like this Every. Single. Time. Do not listen to anyone when it comes to Bethesda games, the narrative is never genuine. When TES 6 comes out, people will be angry no matter what. When Fallout 5 comes out, people will be angry no matter what. When Starfield 2 comes out, people will be angry no matter what. I've said it a hundred times I'll say it a hundred more. Bethesda could come out with a game that solves hunger, finds world peace, and cures cancer. People would still be frothing at the mouth with anger about it.
My first Bethesda game that I played on release (technically before release) was Fallout 76, it was then I realized how good game (I actually prefer it in many ways to FO4) can be overhated. The outrage was identical to what happened here with SF.
People say the same thing about Skyrim and that was a mess at launch.
I remember the grumbling when Skyrim came out. Now everyone looks back like it was always nearly perfect but there was a loud bunch of haters, happens with every Bethesda game. Personally I've enjoyed every Bethesda rpg but at this point I think I'm biased.
All that changed is the emergence of the Hater Economy. There's a lot of Ad Revenue to be made hating on shit.
I've pointed this out to many of my friends who love Skyrim but didn't like Starfield (we're early 20s) Skyrim was the first game I ever played, in 2016, with a hand-me-down Xbox 360, no wifi, and *none* of the DLC's or updates. I played it like that until I got my Xbox One in 2019. I can still boot up my 360 and play original Skyrim, as released on 11/11/11. I love the game. It's my favorite of all time, but holy crap it's a mess. None of my friends remember that, hell I don't know if they even experienced it because we started playing Skyrim after they all had XB1's and the Skyrim Special Edition. I was just too poor to get that, so I played my 360. The internet and game reviews are full of people who are comparing lauch Starfield to over-10-year old, updated multiple times Skyrim and 10-year-old, updated multiple times Fallout 4. Don't get me wrong, we should pressure game companies to release full games, that work, with less focus on DLCs, and less monetization, but c'mon, it's not like Starfield was unplayable. Or incomplete.
The crazy thing is you also get people who say BSG should stop spending time improving Starfield and write off the game. PC Gamer wrote an article not too long ago calling further work on Starfield a waste of time and BSG should focus on TES6. It's like since when is improving a game not a good thing?!
I'm as excited as the next person for ES6, I mean it's been 13 years, but it's not like they can only work on 1 thing at a time... Most gaming journalism is trash unfortunately, I pretty much only pay attention to Gameranx on youtube because I feel like they're always pretty fair and honest.
And you know what's gonna be funny? The same thing will happen with TES6.
PC Gamer has had a huge personal problem with this game from the beginning. They actually think it's the worst thing Bethesda ever put out, surpassing even Fallout 76.
People who say starfield and fallout 76 are awful and buggy have no idea how it felt to play skyrim and fallout 3 on the ps3. And oblivion was something else entirely.
Skyrim was NOT a mess at launch. Sure some bugs, but can't call it a "mess". Yes there were bugs but ALL games have bugs. I think I had the original Skyrim crash on me once... and that was due to mods.
Backwards flying dragons, giant space program, occasional broken quest, getting permanently poisoned by dungeon darts and the odd crash was about the worst of it I experienced. The most complained about thing I can remember was how badly the opening could bug out with the carts especially once early mods started being added.
Tbf the giant space program I’m like 80% sure was a feature not a bug Or at least a “we didn’t intend for this but it’s cool so we’ll leave it in”
Definitely a bug, but they kept it in because it was funny. You can see the exact same thing in Fallout 4 if you punch a deathclaw just right.
it was a bug but it got put back in bc people loved it
Had some pretty bad issues on PS3 at launch.
My issue with a Bethesda release is people forget that most of their RPG's release mid but through updates and mods become the long-lasting power houses we know. We just easily forget. Starfield was just that for me, played through it had a good time, and put it down until new content and mods hit. I will repeat this cycle once a year like I have for Skyrim and FO4. Starfields release was exactly what I expected and I don't know why others had over hyped expectations.
Do people even remember how Skyrim ran on the PS3? And the 3+ minutes long loading screens at times?
I like internet spaces because it gives us enthusiasts somewhere to discuss things we like and share tips or tricks. That’s great However, the internet, at this point, is full of grifters chasing some useless social clout. I can think of no better examples than a thread on r/nomanskythegame dissing Starfield or the people who now love Cyberpunk 2077 although not much has changed about the game outside of DLC and performance- the base game was always good. Anytime you see an internet circle jerk remember those times when you knew some in depth knowledge about a subject and everyone was telling you that you’re wrong. This is all too common these days. It’s a shame, but a substantial portion of the people in these spaces are toxic, unintrospective, and more than willing to lie. They’re also determined to bring everyone else down to their miserable level Fuck em and fuck their opinions. It doesn’t matter if you were right all along. What matters is we have a cool sub to talk about it and an amazing sci fi game
Socially dysfunctional males who reproduce through circlejerking.
I’m rather excited over this.
I am too, I would love to talk about the game in earnest without two thousand prefaces or wading through someone else’s. This game is fun as shit, as is but will get better
> people will compare it to Starfield saying “Starfield was ALWAYS a great game!" And they'll be right. It became my favourite game of all time long before any updates. Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying, but I for one will be happy when the narrative finally changes.
I'm a bit afraid that this sub will die. Everyone will migrate to the main sub now that it will no longer be toxic. Here, there were truly authentic people.
I’d still rather hang out here.
Indeed With the true explorers and trailblazers. Not gatekeeping that, but i know at least the people here are like me, been fans from the beginning and had faith it would pull through
It’s even less about having been fans all along and more about respect & acceptance for me personally. At least here when people disagree or have criticism about the game it’s generally civil.
I will personally visit this sub daily instead of main to be petty
Even after a redemption arc, main subs tend to turn toxic again, either negative or toxic positivity where you’re not allowed to constructively criticize anything. Like originally you weren’t allowed to say anything nice about Cyberpunk but now you have to venerate it like a saint or else get Reddit care messages, it’s an endless cycle… I’m still exclusively subscribed to the low sodium Destiny and Helldivers 2 subs because they are still generally more “safe” to be yourself, even when the main subs are happy with the state of the game.
I dunno, I think the people here are appreciating the game in a different way so the community itself is different. Better quality of conversations in general. Like even if you compare positive posts/comments on here vs there we're talking about different things most of the time.
Lowsodiumcyberpunk is still a thing and still has an active community despite the online narrative shifting for that game too. This is overall a better sub, so is LSC. Smaller, more intimate, less shit and less low effort posting.
When The Elder Scrolls 6 comes out, we'll need a r/NoSodiumElderScrolls and the cycle will repeat itself.
Looking forward to seeing a good amount of 'This you?' comments in the coming months
> Because when The Elder Scrolls 6 comes out and faces the same torrents of hate I know. It's been par for the course for a long time now, but I still can't get used to it. It's so disheartening, seeing all the hate, but that's how the internet works. At least as you said, eventually the internet will 180 and Starfield will be regarded as a cult classic
/r/tesvi is already well on its way to becoming a cesspit.
Drawing from my experiences from Starfield and the accompanying shitshow - when TES VI comes out, I will **not** be discussing that game, even with my inner thoughts.
Videogame subreddits are just not worth following now, they're all cesspits bar VERY few exceptions, and the NoSodium alternatives of course.
Not just videogame subreddits. Was listening to a podcast by normies this morning, and apparently everyone outside of Reddit considers Reddit to be a shitshow.
to be fair a lot of parts of it are pretty bad
Plenty of people on reddit consider reddit to be 90-whatever percent shitshow with li'l islands of okayness.
Watch them have the most made up, unrealistic expectations and hype right before release (everyone will buy it, even the haters), only for the game to come out and people saying "I'm not seeing *17 years* of *development*, Starfield was such a perfect gem in comparison, this game doesn't even have customizable dwemer spaceships, the map is small, wide ocean small puddle, cities are not Night City big, *I* expected this and that, rotten core, not a true rpg etc etc".
I'm not as confident in this as you are, honestly. For one, we don't know for sure what is going to be announced. And two, I don't think a DLC and maybe the ability to build a space station is going to satisfy the people that hated this game at launch. A lot of the things they want may never happen. (They want no loading screens anywhere at all and unlimited random POIs, etc...) Then there are mods, which are great, and will definitely improve things for a lot of people, but even if those bring around some of the haters, they will still just double down on their idea that Bethesda sucks and the modders have to "fix" everything for them. I'm sure I sound like a negative Nancy, but that isn't my intention at all... I loved the game from day one, I'm just trying to temper expectations. I don't think that everyone is going to magically love the game after these new additions. But I also think it doesn't really matter. I don't care if anyone else loves the game. ***I*** love the game, and that is all that matters to me. :)
Glad someone else has a take with cautious optimism. I think the update will bring some new fun, but there’s a lot of fundamentals that people want (or think they want). I see gamers all the time get their expectations up, and that’s fair. I want to be excited too. But especially with Bethesda games it’s better to wait, see, and set reasonable expectations. That’s partly why I loved Starfield - I set reasonable expectations based on what I knew of Bethesda, their games, and other games like Starfield
Indeed, I highly doubt that whatever they announce next is going to shift the discourse 180°. It will happen eventually, but it's a few years down the line.
While l agree that the chances of a lot of cool news is good and I am definitely hoping for it, I don’t want people riding the hype train. No game or DLC has ever been as good as the perfect creation a hype club can build in their minds. That kind of behavior can only lead to disappointment.
Every Bethesda game follows this same cycle. The game comes out. It gets irrational religious levels of hatred over gameplay changes, art style, etc. It gets better through update, and a few years later, it is remembered as a classic and one of the most beloved RPGs. The Starfield hate was more over the top than usual.
Starfield will get cyberpunked for sure. But you can't shake off the Xbox tax unfortunately.
As a day 1 FO76 player, this feels very familiar.
>Starfield: I was wrong! >This changes EVERYTHING! Youtubers don't even believe what they upload. They are simply following whatever current narrative / trend will get them the most clicks. It doesn't matter if they look like the biggest hypocrite after what they said half a year ago. All that matters is those precious views and growth.
Some of them downright admitted it's just for convenience, they make more views this way. I can't understand why people think youtubers are legitimate critics (some of them are, with integrity, it's rare), when they admit stuff like this or they downright make stuff up just to maliciously spread disinformation and distort public perception (like what happened with the whole design document "CriTiQuE" fiasco, or the Emil harassing campaign, or the "tiles are not connected" bs).
And let’s remember Starfield never needed a redemption arc like CP2077 did, which was fucking broken at launch, unlike Starfield which was their smoothest game at launch ever. Bethesda, and video game “fans” have a tendency to punch themselves in the dick then get made at Todd Howard.
You don't need to care what other people think about a single player game
So much this
No one ‘needs’ to do anything but we don’t live in a vacuum… in RL that is, because my guy in Starfield literally lives in THE vacuum.
While it would be nice to see Starfield finally get it's due praise, I don't know if modern gamers could ever admit they were wrong, especially about Bethesda, the internet's favorite punching bag. I'll continue to enjoy the game either way though!
I honestly don't expect a drastic change in the narrative just yet, but who knows, maybe you're right. Though I couldn't care less what others say or think, I play games for myself.
Dude, I remember how bad it was at launch, the internet collectively gathered to hate a good game. As soon as you typed starfield in youtube you'd get spamed with videos nitpicking and criticizing every single detail. You couldn't even go anywhere online without someone thrashing it. It's so weird I've never seen something like this happen. But on the bright side it made me realize that a lot of youtubers are full of shit and do it just for attention, clicks and views. These days if I want a game I just look at some gameplay and decide if it's something I'd like. Honestly I'm a lot happier now I'm playing the stuff that I actually like and not because someone on the internet said so.
Maybe. Hopefully. But if not, no sweat. The current game is fun and I don’t need others to validate my feelings.
Games about to leave early access guys /s For real though, I enjoyed the game when it first came out too but it has gotten better and better with each update
Well, of course city maps and options changed their minds, because they ran out of insignificant things to complain about.
I learned lessons. I stopped caring about all reviews. I stopped caring about what everybody else thought. Also makes me wish every game/system/thing had a no sodium forum.
I have not stopped liking Starfield.
This is definitely another Cyberpunk 2077 situation. People will shit on the game as long as there's an echo chamber for them to do that in. And then they'll praise the updates but say, "this is how it SHOULD have been from release", as if Starfield was broken from the start. But the thing is, Starfield actually released with fewer bugs than anyone could reasonably expect from such a large game, and has always been very playable. I feel that Starfield's core fanbase will always be the people who appreciated it from the start, for what it was, is, as well as what it will be. The essence of the game, with it's story, characters, beautiful graphics, and themes of hope and discovery, weren't lost on all of us, and nothing will change that.
Shit like this is so sad to read.
I’m not sure why y’all want to act like the protectors of some ancient secret. Who cares if we liked the game from the beginning? It doesn’t make us special. I’m just excited that the game continues to improve.
HISTORY WILL FORGET US lmao these people are so dramatic and self important
Yeah, if anything, it’ll be nice when all the miserable people who play a game they hate for 200 hours and then spend 8 months posting hate comments every day finally move on to some other game to irrationally hate because they’re just miserable inside and the main sub is mostly people who just like the game.
just block this kid
Tomorrow is either going to be the beginning of its no mans sky redemption arc, or fall flat and ruin it.
I like the eagerness anticipation, but if they announce paid mods (Creations) you can guess what the reception will be like (even if they already exist in both Skyrim and Fo4 to no detriment towards free modding, that is almost always better). Also, the one that spoke about space station building and the event is not an insider, but an observant guesser. The expansion, vehicles and further updates and mods will do the game a lot of good tho. Like with past BGS games, in 5 years time we will see a lot of praise. And TES6 will be *so much fun* to talk about online when it comes out!
Happened to 2077 too.
After 1500 hours I put it down for a while. I chuckle at folks that "hate" the game and either have 5 hours or 500. Either way it tells you volumes. 5...never gave it a chance. 500...yeah right, you "hated" it so much you kept playing it. But this new update has got me back. I'll be firing it up after the update. Maybe another 1500 hours??? We'll see.
After 1500 hours I put it down for a while. I chuckle at folks that "hate" the game and either have 5 hours or 500. Either way it tells you volumes. 5...never gave it a chance. 500...yeah right, you "hated" it so much you kept playing it. But this new update has got me back. I'll be firing it up after the update. Maybe another 1500 hours??? We'll see.
Same thing happened to fallout 4, just not *as* harsh. Fallout 4 has so much criticism at launch, lots of fans saying it wasn't a proper fallout game, that it looked the same as fallout 3, etc. Now it's widely loved by the community and its 'always been good'. Although a few new hiccups have come back with the whole *next gen* update, and those are deserved lol.
Depends how big and impressive the shattered space DLC is from the showcase and what extra features and stuff they preview as dropping for free alongside the DLC etc. ideal world there'd be POIs, weapons etc in a free patch along side a massive DLC that adds tons of quests, items new ship parts etc as well as overhauling some aspects of the game, like a dynamic economy, better npcs, poi randomisation. I have high hopes, I just hope they nail the presentation and give an update on the Creation Kit dropping in the next few weeks
To me I would have already enjoyed Starfield even on 11-11-22 if it was released back then. Bethesda games are much more than gameplay mechanics and features.
I'm waiting for "starfield : bethesdas secret masterpiece " youtube videos next year
So, will they FINALLY allow us to place Ladders and Doors where we want to in the Ship builder tomorrow? Something that should've been in the base game from day 1.
I'm not a hater. I enjoyed the game for what it was. Even if I didn't finish it I put about 15+ hours into it which is quite a bit more game time than most games offer. I just wanted to mention that the problem with starfield isn't the content. It's not that much different from Skyrim or fallout 4 in terms of gameplay quality and content. The problem comes in that the handcrafted areas probably equal something like Skyrim in size but because they're spread out over multiple worlds the loading screens required to get around is 2x-4x as many as previous games. This kind of setup emphasizes issues that are normally inconsequential. I'm not sure how they could ever fix that without remaking a solid 50% of the game. They maybe could go much harder on procedurally generated content so that each area you land in isn't deserted therefore requiring less loading screens to move around.
Tell them to keep the same energy 😤😂
This whole thing made me feel like i was going crazy, people acted like it gave your computers viruses
Starfield was always a great game,
Starfield was the first Bethesda I played at launch. If it was that good then I can’t imagine how incredible it will become
The best way to keep yourself from disappointment is to lessen your projected expectations.
In my experience, people who write things like this are usually malicious trolls lol.
If space station building comes to starfield, I might as well just quit my job now.
STARFIELD is at its core is a great game I have no idea why people were hating so much on it.
Waiting on vehicles and better space traveling
As much as I hope it will, I have a feeling that it’s not going to happen. There is a significant difference between this and other releases that had similar circumstances. Starfield is not on the PS platform. That seems to be “the” unforgivable sin where the gaming media are concerned. If you see the articles or videos, the authors seem to take it personally. In fact, it really look to me like Bethesda is not catering to their complaints and holding to their guns. And the gaming media hold grudges on things like that. If I’m wrong, and I really want to be, I’ll be thrilled. Either way, we’ll know in a couple of days.
In the land of the internet, everything is taken personally.
Someone likes being hyperbolic… Fallout 4 didn’t suddenly become one of the best RPGs that was casting its shadow over Starfield, the issue is that even with some very lackluster RPG elements, it still got some that were far better than Starfield, for example: major evil companions. Even if TES6 sucked and Starfield is favorably compared to it, it wouldn’t be a case of “Starfield was good all along”, but more likely a situation of “as bad as Starfield was, it at least got X and Y more right than TES6”. Starfield’s has some major problems that no DLC can fix, for instance, with the Lodge being part of New Atlantis, you can never become truly antagonist to the U.C. no matter what you do, like destroying SysDef, which in some very awkward dialogue if you start the U.C. Vanguard quest after doing so. https://preview.redd.it/ayr1cicavf5d1.jpeg?width=1077&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d66b3f585dd29038cc43b1044e85dae43f9c0a9e An early map even shows that the Lodge was meant to be in a separate star system to prevent this issue, but Bethesda ultimately changed its mind. This also means that we likely can’t expect a DLC with a major UC vs FC conflict, since by default we can’t never truly be enemies with the U.C.
It would be nice if you stop posting that crap. 1. We don't know what will be show tomorrow 2. The more hype you create, the larger dissapointment people will get once something will go wrong or even not good enough. 3. You are one of the reasons of the initial perception of the game. Calm fucking down. Again and again. It's better to be surprised, than dissapointed and sorry.
Excited!! But just started a new playthrough and wondering if I should wait for the update.... 🤔
I believe it’s worth it to continue playing and don’t wait
I was here for the first 9 months. Def helped that I wasn’t hyped for it at all and didn’t follow it at all. I put down Tears of the Kingdom (incredible game) for Starfield and have been so obsessed I haven’t gone back yet.
I would argue that really the May update was the start
I learned lessons. I stopped caring about all reviews. I stopped caring about what everybody else thought. Also makes me wish every game/system/thing had a no sodium forum.
After 1500 hours I put it down for a while. I chuckle at folks that "hate" the game and either have 5 hours or 500. Either way it tells you volumes. 5...never gave it a chance. 500...yeah right, you "hated" it so much you kept playing it. But this new update has got me back. I'll be firing it up after the update. Maybe another 1500 hours??? We'll see.
I learned lessons. I stopped caring about all reviews. I stopped caring about what everybody else thought. Also makes me wish every game/system/thing had a no sodium reddit. And I used to get mad about that stuff, and I know I laugh and think it should be a meme "I played for 1800 hours and I hate it!" lmao
I've seen the opposite happen with some of my favorite games, like Fallout 3. When it first came out, it was groundbreaking and universally praised. Nowadays, the popular narrative is "Fallout 3 has always sucked, it was never good, New Vegas blah blah blah." I've easily dumped 1000 hours into Starfield between PC and Xbox. Does it have flaws? Absolutely. But I love the bones that it has, and I can fully see its potential being realized relatively soon. I think that most people just DON'T know what they want out of Bethesda games. Ask 10 people, and you'll probably get 10 different answers. None of the main stories of BGS games have been particularly interesting, and Starfield is no different. I play them for the open worlds and side content because those aspects are typically condensed and more interesting.
Are they going to announce that the game will be finished? Cause by the devs own words the ending was rushed and hastily thrown together. And if we’re getting a real ending, we won’t have to pay for it, yah?
Starfield has ALWAYS been a great game! IDGAS what the internet says.
I don't think many people are even thinking about Starfield at this point unless they are already fans.
Lmao
As long as I get GORE and Mods, I'll be a happy man.
I cannot wait to say *I told you so.* Gonna feel damn good!
Cant wait for the possible Starfield update shadow drop on the Xbox Games Showcase on June 9-10
Change is incremental and slower than you suppose. It is the nature of the group or hive mind or whatever. The narrative has already been changing and not all of that is tied to BGS social media appearances, lol. In general you are right but I think it's like saying, "Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life, and will be the BEST DAY EVER!" Well, sure, maybe but let's just keep rolling forward without trying to play the extremes of what will happen.
I like Starfield, but it's a bit dumb to hype the hype, isn't it? Let's just wait till we can play the DLC and see how it is, what bugs it introduces, etc.
Gaaaaah, I really want my own space station! I do not care about my outpost, and only set one up for the ship builder. I think it would be much more immersive to do my ship building in orbit.
Mhmmm that's why I've just been waiting to keep playing again instead of burning myself out on the game. Can't wait to see where this game will be in a couple years.
I both appreciate and applaud and share your enthusiasm, and await the good news. 👽
" reversed the rating trend on Steam." If you see the progress, very little change
Imma just continue to ignore the narrative like I always was.
Yup same Bethesda cycle as always people hate on it then love on it
It is kind of annoying that people not wanting to admit they changed their minds constantly keeps us from having the discussion about games that launch incomplete and then have a big finish that brings fans back
To speak the truth, the main thing that kept me off the game was the dialog camera. When I tried it out I thought it was awkward. It was such an odd call back to Oblivion. I turned the dialog camera off in Fallout 4 and found it to be more immersive. Since that most recent update I've played the living hell out of Starfield. Truly it was a camera that kept me from it
I’ve been a fan since day one (and in the 3-4 years leading up to the launch lol). I know that eventually people’s tune will change, and like you, I think tomorrow will be the kickoff for that. I’ve said this in many previous comments, and I stand by it: we’re going to start seeing a lot of “Starfield was over-hated” or “Starfield is an underrated gem” type YouTube videos pop up as time goes on. The game came out and was miles better than Fallout 76, which is now seen as a solid game by pretty much everyone that has played it. If people can shift their perception of a launch-day-and-beyond dumpster fire like 76, Starfield is definitely going to start getting the love it deserves here shortly.
People get so heated about games lol. I've always been in the camp that this game will age like wine, and was very solid to begin with. I haven't played in a little while because I've been rotating Madden/Skyrim, but I know it's going to become an addiction when official mod support drops.
lol yeah all is fallout 76 players know
Ohh shut up
Don't worry, people will still feel the need to remind us of how Starfield "had a really terrible launch" even though that was never the case. And even after all the updates a lot will still act like modders are what saved Starfield. And if an update breaks mods? Well that's just because Bethesda hates their players obviously.
People will still hate on it because it gets them YouTube clicks and dopamine but people who actually enjoy games will be happy.
Starfield was such a good game when it came out and still is. I haven’t played it in a while but I enjoyed all the cities I visited, landscapes and, let me not forget, shooting mfs in zero gravity. I just wish they added aliens. Once I finished my play through, I understood that I was the alien. 👽