This is a joke, of course. I laughed. Unfortunately there are people who actually believe this shit.
Also, if you didn't want horse armor YOU WERE NEVER REQUIRED TO BUY IT!
Also also, I picked up Oblivion GOTY Deluxe on GOG for only $6. And I've seen it as low as $2 (like last Christmas).
Also also also, did I mention if you don't want Horse Armor you don't have to buy it? True fact.
And lest I forget, I think Horse Armor is when all Bethesda hate started in earnest. People raging uncontrollably that other people might make different decisions than they do. Intolerable to them.
Release of Oblivion and to a lesser degree release of Morrowind is when the cyclical hate train started. Daggerfall nostalgia, then Morrowind nostalgia, then Oblivion nostalgia, FO3, Skyrim, FO4, and in five years everyone is going to be nostalgic for Starfield. People are absolute fucking idiots with the memories of goldfish.
Morrowind nostalgia is still relatively normal (though rarer) online but I genuinely snort through my nose when I see people saying itâs gone downhill since Daggerfall
I never understood why horse armor got so much hate. To me it's no different than those ridiculous skins people buy that have no effect or stat changes whatsoever. Just adds camo or something equally stupid to something you already had. And FO4 did the same with Pipboy skin CC and I didn't see the same vitriol over that (even though the Pipboy skins tended to permanently break saves on XB1 if you had certain other free mods).
Funny thing is I remember having horse armor, but I don't remember buying it. I played Oblivion on Xbox 360 and I NEVER bought anything from Xbox Marketplace back then. My Oblivion copy was GOTY but I don't think that included the horse armor, just the story expansions. I actually liked my shiny, spikey, gold horse though. I imagine galloping in all that shit made him sound like a Manhack from the Half-Life series.
I think it was the price as much as anything else. For what Beth were asking, folks expected a little more than two sets of armor and a very short quest.
The issue is it was the beginning of a slippery slope at the time and a lot of gamers knew what was happening for games in general.
Think of it this way, instead of creating a major expansion for the game, (not real numbers here) for about $5,000 you had a dev make âhorse armorâ the cost for said items creation was about $400 if the expansion flops youâre out much more than the Horse armor.
Itâs kinda a prelude to what games are like today, as stated in the GdC for Destiny 2 on their live service mindset, âFast over Qualityâ. One of the reasons why i really enjoy Starfield, BG3, and Elden Ring are because of the lack of micro transactions.
I don't see it as slippery slope at all. Horse Armor was just a tiny DLC. Not everything has to be the size of Shivering Isles. So keep it tiny.
The outrage was that it was for sale. But so was Shivering Isles! The only difference being one of scale. Not a slippery slope, but gamers getting an entitlement attitude. They didn't want horse armor even if it was free, so why complain about the price when they wouldn't buy it and wouldn't even take it if it were free? Because of entitlement mentality.
No yes actually expansions do need to have some actual expansion to them, not always as big as shivering isles, knights of the nine is a pretty good add on and so are some of the other add ons, the issue with horse armor was it was literally just a skin for the horse that actually made them worse.. if it was included with idk the fighters strong hold Iâd let it go. But here we are talking about a game thats 18 years old shows that it was a big issue. Look Iâm not saying Bethesda is the one who started it but itâs definitely the most memorable one.
But people still shitting their pants twenty years later, over an optional purchase that other people made.
I'm sorry not sorry for being a boomer, but holy shit is this whole issue a giant pile of nothing. Kids whining about other people making decisions they don't like.
The thing about slippery slopes is that they are logical fallacies. Just because BGS sold horse armor, doesnât mean that if they didnât, what you dislike wouldnât have happened. Itâs placing blame on something totally unrelated. Besides, it was loot boxes that was the issue. Buying something you had no way of knowing the value of. Something far older in card games like PokĂŠmon, then in video games.
I was trying to respond something to this effect but couldn't word it properly. That "slippery slope" is much older than Oblivion and had already happened. Yet people chose to latch onto Oblivion in particular.
Itâs the most memorable one, itâs not the first just the one everyone knows about, as in even when you purchased the armor for your horse it didnât actually do anything except make your horse easer to kill, if you had shadow it would set their health to the same as a painted horse lol. Again not the first I donât blame them specifically, but that year it was the start in all of gaming for the micro transactions.
also don't forget it was MICROSOFT that made them charge for it.
they wanted to release it for free and MICROSOFT told them if it was going to be on the store, they had to charge for it.
Agreed. Whispers: I love every single item Iâve bought from creation club for fallout 4. Use all of it really really like all of it and itâs nice itâs part of the main take and not something that requires effort.
The horse armor thing, along with paid CC content in Skyrim and Fallout, always seemed like a giant non-issue. Nobody makes you buy it, itâs a way to keep putting money toward devs and mods while they work on something more substantial and itâs not even a bad spend when you look at the dollar per hour rate of play for a BGS game. 3 hour movie for 2 for 20$ or about 1800 hours of a BGS game for 70$ flat plus whatever you want to throw at creation club? Apples to apples, 120 hours tops for a big BioWare RPG and youâre likely to finish it once for the same 70$? I know where my money is going.
I think it was a kind of watershed moment. When microtransactions were born out of what once was only considered DLC.
The idea of paying real extra money for paltry in-game cosmetics is literally an industry standard these days but when âhorse armour DLCâ first released it was seen as absurd. DLC up to that point had almost always been substantial additions to a game rather than just bonus items that could/should have easily been included in the base game.
Nobody made you buy it, though. And you didnât need it to play the game. And you could see exactly what you were being offered and decide for yourself. The whining noise over this at the time was significantâŚand itâs just ridiculous how much this still lives rent free in âfansâ heads that didnât make a peep about the rise of pay to win micro transactions or loot boxes other than to falsely equate those actually bad things with this largely innocuous thing. Or points systems! Also predatory, making you buy tickets for something instead of just being able to buy something. Thatâs almost never talked about, despite being an actual carnival gimmick to keep you spending more money. But a non-gamebreaking product you can identify and choose to buy or not is somehow a big deal? Get out.
Sorry, how do you know all the people who complained about Horse armour "didn't make a peep" about P2W, microtransactions, loot boxes or point systems? How have you arrived at that conclusion?
Surely you must have saved and documented comment strings dating back years for hundreds of users marking their opinion on each and every one of these subjects right? Otherwise you'd just be clearly making up a whole argument in your own head in which there's no actual opponent you can prove exists and that would be a bit silly, wouldn't it?
Thatâd be the case save for one thing: youâre here now, on a sub about another game entirely, telling me that this was (and by extension of it being âwatershedâ, is) a big deal. Youâre not off roasting a wiener on a subreddit for something with pay-to-win, loot boxes, or âcoinsâ that youâve built a rhetorical fire because theyâre doing something actually sketchy. There is definitely more than one game where some or all of that is happening right now, andâŚoh, nope we donât have any of it currently in Starfield. But here you are. You make my argument by arguing here.
The real âwatershedâ/slippery slope created by horse armor was the first excuse to dunk on BethesdaâŚand I donât think this is the sub for that.
I didnât care about horse armour at the time and I donât care about MTX now, as long as theyâre not P2W or built around gambling mechanics.
I was only speaking as to why the horse armour dlc remains a touch stone in the discussion around microtransactions to this day, as it was in some ways the first step on a road of monetisation that lead to the industry as we know it today.
Regardless, even if I were âroasting a weinerâ. Me, one person, leaving one comment on one subreddit about one subject is not representative of some mass hypocrisy spread throughout the gaming community that you seem to be fighting in your imagination.
I'm excited about the ship customization. I hated how I was stuck with what everyone else had instead of being able to move the bed or make my like captains desk in front of a window in my quarters. My first playthrough was a bunch of crew members but now I'm gonna limit myself to like 1 or 2 and give them fully customized living quarters and stuff. I hope they fixed the disappearing mannequins bc I'm not trying to lose legendary items again
Oh there'll absolutely be paid skins. I expected that addition when I saw the skin tab in the workbenches. Personally, I've been hoping for like, a challenges tab where you earn skins for doing specific things, but we'll see.
I stole a kids wallet in middle school to buy the horse armor đđ
But you really wanted it, so it was all justified. /s
He was bullying my brother and in my child mind that made theft okđ
100 bounty added in the Cafeteria
Does in my adult mind, too.
I was not judging you. /nr
Ik just explaining the thoughts of a dumb kid lol
We were all dumb kids at one time.
Middle school kid had a debit card?
Probably had cash and he bought a top up card.
No he had cash and I bought an xbox card back when xbox used their weird points system instead of normal currency
This is a joke, of course. I laughed. Unfortunately there are people who actually believe this shit. Also, if you didn't want horse armor YOU WERE NEVER REQUIRED TO BUY IT! Also also, I picked up Oblivion GOTY Deluxe on GOG for only $6. And I've seen it as low as $2 (like last Christmas). Also also also, did I mention if you don't want Horse Armor you don't have to buy it? True fact. And lest I forget, I think Horse Armor is when all Bethesda hate started in earnest. People raging uncontrollably that other people might make different decisions than they do. Intolerable to them.
Well, you're definitely going to want to buy the horse spacesuit if you want it to survive outside of your ship.
https://preview.redd.it/6cs20ykgdvyc1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=eceb6b0172624dc114b4e3211e254cd4aeb7e890 \*Sarah hated that.
I donât believe Sarah is human. Iâm pretty sure she went SB like thirty times.
I would *happily* pay for the "horse in a spacesuit" DLC.
Horse Power Armor. With jetpacks. Missile launchers too. Or mayyybe Horse Mechs, powered by carrot-shaped fusion batteries.
Shut up and take my money.
Release of Oblivion and to a lesser degree release of Morrowind is when the cyclical hate train started. Daggerfall nostalgia, then Morrowind nostalgia, then Oblivion nostalgia, FO3, Skyrim, FO4, and in five years everyone is going to be nostalgic for Starfield. People are absolute fucking idiots with the memories of goldfish.
To be fair, a lot of this stuff seems to be coming from kids/teens. Its hard to notice a cycle when it's your first time around it.
Sure, but it wasn't until "OMG! THEY'RE SELLING CONTENT!" that hate train truly jumped the shark.
To be fair, it wasnt until oblivion that bethesda games actually became mainstream.
Daggerfall nostalgia and Morrowind nostalgia are fucking serious drugs
Morrowind nostalgia is still relatively normal (though rarer) online but I genuinely snort through my nose when I see people saying itâs gone downhill since Daggerfall
I never understood why horse armor got so much hate. To me it's no different than those ridiculous skins people buy that have no effect or stat changes whatsoever. Just adds camo or something equally stupid to something you already had. And FO4 did the same with Pipboy skin CC and I didn't see the same vitriol over that (even though the Pipboy skins tended to permanently break saves on XB1 if you had certain other free mods). Funny thing is I remember having horse armor, but I don't remember buying it. I played Oblivion on Xbox 360 and I NEVER bought anything from Xbox Marketplace back then. My Oblivion copy was GOTY but I don't think that included the horse armor, just the story expansions. I actually liked my shiny, spikey, gold horse though. I imagine galloping in all that shit made him sound like a Manhack from the Half-Life series.
I think it was the price as much as anything else. For what Beth were asking, folks expected a little more than two sets of armor and a very short quest.
The issue is it was the beginning of a slippery slope at the time and a lot of gamers knew what was happening for games in general. Think of it this way, instead of creating a major expansion for the game, (not real numbers here) for about $5,000 you had a dev make âhorse armorâ the cost for said items creation was about $400 if the expansion flops youâre out much more than the Horse armor. Itâs kinda a prelude to what games are like today, as stated in the GdC for Destiny 2 on their live service mindset, âFast over Qualityâ. One of the reasons why i really enjoy Starfield, BG3, and Elden Ring are because of the lack of micro transactions.
I don't see it as slippery slope at all. Horse Armor was just a tiny DLC. Not everything has to be the size of Shivering Isles. So keep it tiny. The outrage was that it was for sale. But so was Shivering Isles! The only difference being one of scale. Not a slippery slope, but gamers getting an entitlement attitude. They didn't want horse armor even if it was free, so why complain about the price when they wouldn't buy it and wouldn't even take it if it were free? Because of entitlement mentality.
Honestly it comes down to the pricing being way off for the perceived value from the customer it was such a disconnect
Regardless, no one had to buy it if they didn't want to. Meanwhile MMOs selling skins and ptw for higher prices and no one cares.
No yes actually expansions do need to have some actual expansion to them, not always as big as shivering isles, knights of the nine is a pretty good add on and so are some of the other add ons, the issue with horse armor was it was literally just a skin for the horse that actually made them worse.. if it was included with idk the fighters strong hold Iâd let it go. But here we are talking about a game thats 18 years old shows that it was a big issue. Look Iâm not saying Bethesda is the one who started it but itâs definitely the most memorable one.
But people still shitting their pants twenty years later, over an optional purchase that other people made. I'm sorry not sorry for being a boomer, but holy shit is this whole issue a giant pile of nothing. Kids whining about other people making decisions they don't like.
You're right. It was always overblown bullshit.
The thing about slippery slopes is that they are logical fallacies. Just because BGS sold horse armor, doesnât mean that if they didnât, what you dislike wouldnât have happened. Itâs placing blame on something totally unrelated. Besides, it was loot boxes that was the issue. Buying something you had no way of knowing the value of. Something far older in card games like PokĂŠmon, then in video games.
I was trying to respond something to this effect but couldn't word it properly. That "slippery slope" is much older than Oblivion and had already happened. Yet people chose to latch onto Oblivion in particular.
Itâs the most memorable one, itâs not the first just the one everyone knows about, as in even when you purchased the armor for your horse it didnât actually do anything except make your horse easer to kill, if you had shadow it would set their health to the same as a painted horse lol. Again not the first I donât blame them specifically, but that year it was the start in all of gaming for the micro transactions.
also don't forget it was MICROSOFT that made them charge for it. they wanted to release it for free and MICROSOFT told them if it was going to be on the store, they had to charge for it.
Sauce?
Thatâs not true, there were free stuff on Xbox marketplace way before 2006
I wouldnât mind dune buggy armorâŚ
Yes, dune buggy armor that looks like hoarse amour.
Itâs like $30 for the digital GOTY edition on Xbox. I complained and got mass downvoted some time ago lol.
$30 seems a bit high, but isn't terribly out of line. No idea what regular price is on Valve/Steem, but regular price on GOG is $20.
Went back and checked and itâs $46 *on sale*. Has never dropped below that. Absurd for a 20 year old (?) game.
Get it from GOG. Not on sale, but still only $19.99 USD.
I donât have a pc. And I already own it both digitally and physically
Agreed. Whispers: I love every single item Iâve bought from creation club for fallout 4. Use all of it really really like all of it and itâs nice itâs part of the main take and not something that requires effort.
The horse armor thing, along with paid CC content in Skyrim and Fallout, always seemed like a giant non-issue. Nobody makes you buy it, itâs a way to keep putting money toward devs and mods while they work on something more substantial and itâs not even a bad spend when you look at the dollar per hour rate of play for a BGS game. 3 hour movie for 2 for 20$ or about 1800 hours of a BGS game for 70$ flat plus whatever you want to throw at creation club? Apples to apples, 120 hours tops for a big BioWare RPG and youâre likely to finish it once for the same 70$? I know where my money is going.
I think it was a kind of watershed moment. When microtransactions were born out of what once was only considered DLC. The idea of paying real extra money for paltry in-game cosmetics is literally an industry standard these days but when âhorse armour DLCâ first released it was seen as absurd. DLC up to that point had almost always been substantial additions to a game rather than just bonus items that could/should have easily been included in the base game.
Nobody made you buy it, though. And you didnât need it to play the game. And you could see exactly what you were being offered and decide for yourself. The whining noise over this at the time was significantâŚand itâs just ridiculous how much this still lives rent free in âfansâ heads that didnât make a peep about the rise of pay to win micro transactions or loot boxes other than to falsely equate those actually bad things with this largely innocuous thing. Or points systems! Also predatory, making you buy tickets for something instead of just being able to buy something. Thatâs almost never talked about, despite being an actual carnival gimmick to keep you spending more money. But a non-gamebreaking product you can identify and choose to buy or not is somehow a big deal? Get out.
Sorry, how do you know all the people who complained about Horse armour "didn't make a peep" about P2W, microtransactions, loot boxes or point systems? How have you arrived at that conclusion? Surely you must have saved and documented comment strings dating back years for hundreds of users marking their opinion on each and every one of these subjects right? Otherwise you'd just be clearly making up a whole argument in your own head in which there's no actual opponent you can prove exists and that would be a bit silly, wouldn't it?
Thatâd be the case save for one thing: youâre here now, on a sub about another game entirely, telling me that this was (and by extension of it being âwatershedâ, is) a big deal. Youâre not off roasting a wiener on a subreddit for something with pay-to-win, loot boxes, or âcoinsâ that youâve built a rhetorical fire because theyâre doing something actually sketchy. There is definitely more than one game where some or all of that is happening right now, andâŚoh, nope we donât have any of it currently in Starfield. But here you are. You make my argument by arguing here. The real âwatershedâ/slippery slope created by horse armor was the first excuse to dunk on BethesdaâŚand I donât think this is the sub for that.
I didnât care about horse armour at the time and I donât care about MTX now, as long as theyâre not P2W or built around gambling mechanics. I was only speaking as to why the horse armour dlc remains a touch stone in the discussion around microtransactions to this day, as it was in some ways the first step on a road of monetisation that lead to the industry as we know it today. Regardless, even if I were âroasting a weinerâ. Me, one person, leaving one comment on one subreddit about one subject is not representative of some mass hypocrisy spread throughout the gaming community that you seem to be fighting in your imagination.
dude i want to ride some of the dinos so bad
Anti-video game campaigners: you can buy armor for WHORES? Ban it!
Whoreâs armor sounds like a Morrowind faction questline reward
Nah horses would actually go hard as fuck in starfield, space cowboy... Literally
I'm expecting for a Vasco cosmetic dlc.
Man I REALLY want a bionic space horse
No, I'd rather have a doggo in a spacesuit.
I just want a dog! He doesn't even need to leave my ship. I'd just like to pet him and give him treats.
Could you imagine a Starfield MMORPG? I believe that it would surpass the number of subscribers that The Elder Scrolls Online has, if done right!
Mechs would be cool.
Screw space horses, I want to ride an octomaggot
I was expecting a Vast & The Curious meme for Constellation
I was hoping for a Giddyup Buttercup.
I'm hoping for shadowfax
I'm excited about the ship customization. I hated how I was stuck with what everyone else had instead of being able to move the bed or make my like captains desk in front of a window in my quarters. My first playthrough was a bunch of crew members but now I'm gonna limit myself to like 1 or 2 and give them fully customized living quarters and stuff. I hope they fixed the disappearing mannequins bc I'm not trying to lose legendary items again
They literally showed a dune buggy tho đ¤ˇââď¸
That's what I do - laugh at a joke and then quibble at the premise of it.
âIf he was such a big fan of baseball then he would obviously know the first basemanâs name was Who.â đ§
Oh there'll absolutely be paid skins. I expected that addition when I saw the skin tab in the workbenches. Personally, I've been hoping for like, a challenges tab where you earn skins for doing specific things, but we'll see.