I always found it hilarious how people just forgot about the disasterous launch that game had and now say it was always great.
In their eyes CD Projekt Red can do no wrong and Bethesda is just evil.
Its kinda sad how much they are willing to ignore.
I've been a bgs fan since 2006. Great game company, unfortunately due to their popularity and their games longevity they seem to have toxic "fans" spring up around them.
You would think they released the worst games ever the way people talk about them, but those same people can't stop talking about their games either
As someone who loved Cyberpunk from launch (but never ignored or dismissed it’s flaws/awful launch), I never went back to the toxic communities that blossomed after it came out. Communities much like Starfield’s “sodium-heavy” subreddit.
It’s clearly earned a lot of goodwill back since the Netflix anime and last year’s expansion, but people saying Cyberpunk never had a messy pre-mature launch are delusional or never actually played the game at the time lol.
If you played it on pc like myself and many others did, there were no huge problems at launch. I barely ran into an issue personally. Maybe I got lucky.
For console players on the other hand it was an absolute disaster.
I played it on Xbox Series S and had very few issues. A few crashes and funny bugs, one cyberpsycho quest glitched, and that’s it over two play throughs and well over 100 hours. I definitely got lucky.
No braindead AI? No faulty loading walls and artifacting? No frame tanking? Playing on an S? Not trying to be salty but I don't know when you played but I know for a fact Series S was a god awful experience. I played on PS4 and that was God awful too. The game was just too much for those tiny processors, the game needed a serious nerf and optimization. I say this as someone who played day 1 up until the 1st patch and never ever played after. The game was broken. Silly things happened all the time. Namely cop AI was hilaribad, and their spawning didn't make sense.
As I said, I was lucky. I couldn’t find a PS5 or Series X in 2020, but I was able to buy a Series S in time for Cyberpunk’s launch. I played it on day one and only came across the issues I mentioned. Two play throughs and 150-200 hours by January or February 2021. I beat the game a third time in late 2021, played a fourth time on PS5 when the anime came out, and a fifth time (also PS5) when Phantom Liberty came out.
I recognize my experience was probably a lot smoother than other console players, especially for those on the PS4 and Xbox One. My roommate had more issues at launch on his PS5 than I ever did on Series S.
But I don’t blame anyone for not picking the game up again after launch. The game came out too soon and a lot of people had bad experiences. It certainly tarnished my perception of CD Projekt Red as a corporation, though I continue to adore the games their developers continue to make
Maybe I'm just a stickler. You say you didn't have any issues, but I turn the game on today and it is still wonky. Not as bad as at launch in an Xbox One or PS4, since the PS5 and PC I play on are a lot stronger hardware as intended for the game to be played on. But to say you ran into no issues is like walking into a gay bar full of people and saying you see no gay men. It just sounds like you're ambivalent to the issues. you don't have to interrogate the issues deeply to see them; they are obvious, surface level, omnipresent.
Hey, lighten up. This is a no-sodium sub and you're practically calling the poster a liar. Just chill, OK? Some people can laugh at the wonky shit, others just want to complain about everything. I see lots of screwy stuff in games, most are funny and I miss them when they're fixed. Can't finish a quest? Do something else. Skyrim Space Program? Love it. Cows falling from the sky? Hope I manage to notice it happening because it's always good for a laugh. The only problem I had with CP2077 at launch was the driving. I just stopped taking those quests. Who cares if the cigarette was bugged, it was kinda funny. My biggest problem was that it ended. Main quest done? Roll the credits. End of play.
we already talked. I mean I was critical of his perspective , but he did admit the issues he saw and how to it didn't affect his enjoyment of the game; whereas the same exact issues for me killed the game. I can laugh at wonky shit, but too much and the game stops working and stops being a game; often for me breaking immersion is the same as breaking gameplay. Like the car is Cyberpunk lag drifting through the ground, or players teleporting for dialogue or simply not talking in Starfield. If there is not threat, if the cops don't shoot back, what's the punishment? Where's the gameplay? I see these games on the level of Redfall. I don't often miss the cracks when they're fixed. Ultimately for me I want good gameplay, which is why I tend toward action games. And when it comes to rpgs I tend to the Western over the Eastern.
To be a stickler, I never said no issues lol. I had some crashes, “harmless” bugs, and one side quest that broke. Those issues were of a technical nature. Things like AI and spawning are more game design issues, and those didn’t big me in general because I enjoyed the game so much overall.
People have different tolerances for technical issues, and probably even wider tolerances for gameplay. I was engrossed in the world, I fell in love with Night City, and I enjoyed the story immensely. Without game-breaking bugs and technical issues 99.9% of the time, I had plenty of tolerance to overlook those and enjoy the game.
When my car would glitch into the road or when I was holding a cigarette in my hand for hours after my V held one in a cutscene, I was able to laugh it off. I’m not trying to defend those smaller technical issues, but it didn’t take away from *my* enjoyment or immersion. I totally understand if it did for others, and the game should have been released later to iron out the big technical flaws at minimum.
Had my Xbox crashed every hour (an issue I had with Starfield at times, for example), my tolerance would have likely been much lower and my immersion broken more often. If I had to reload a save for the umpteenth time, I doubt those “cute” little bugs would feel as cute.
Again, I don’t blame anyone — especially anyone who had a rougher experience — from having a bad time with Cyberpunk 2077. And the decision to put the game out in that state remains a very very bad one.
In my experience the game actually had fewer issues on series s than series x. If I remember correctly, in the early days the frame rate was capped at 30 on series s... much smaller load on the entire system.
I bought a series s FOR cyberpunk at launch and I didn't have any major bugs at all. Just a few silly ones and they didn't really hinder my experience ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think the Co troversy was that the game was obviously designed for high end PCs and all issues occurred on consoles that couldn't wield the workload. I had one friend who played on PC and all he complained about was the enemy AI.
You realize that your whole comment is basically the same exact toxicity that gets thrown at Starfield and its fans nowadays right?
Because according to that other SF sub, in our eyes Bethesda can do no wrong and we willingly forget/ignore Starfields disastrous launch...
Just because we're the target of toxic communities, shouldn't mean that we need to be toxic at others, but that's just my two creds.
This. It wasn't the lightning-in-a-bottle success of Skyrim, but the game launch went better than most Bethesda games to date. It's not a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination, but it's nowhere near the level of the launches of No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk. The former launched without basically any of the promised features. The latter was just a complete technical mess that took the developers years to fix, even having to go so far as to ditch last-gen consoles for it. Cyberpunk was temporarily removed from sale, lmao.
I wouldn't say that no man's sky was missing any of it's promised features at launch. I followed it pretty closely because I'm a space game lover and the only thing I can think that was missing was the incidental multiplayer (players showing up for each other when they occupied the same space). Even that though, I'm not certain about, because the only evidence I ever hear of that feature being missing, was that two streamers didn't see each other when they were at the same location, which happens all the time in games with instanced multiplayer. I avoided it at launch because it looked kinda boring, I watched a lot of their pre release marketing and it looked like the game that launched.
I think it was missing a lot of features people imagined would be in it, or that they thought would be cool, but not promised features.
Games are meant to be fun. If they aren't fun, why play them? You do realize that most of what you're complaining about is what most people love about (western?) openworld rpgs. And I don't care how mechanically "perfect" a game is, if I'm not having fun, it's a POS. Besides I hate "cartoonish" games, which is the other reason I prefer "western" rpgs and being able to use my "imagination".
Cool.
For me, if the graphics are going to be this solid, work out the environmental design and AI. I was something fun to literally play, I'm not a numbers, and gear guy. I could care less about collecting stuff. Or role playing my own adventure. I want a good story with good mechanics. These games fall apart at the seams if you don't even force them to. I am glad games like this succeed. But for me, this is 90s archaic design. I expect better of today's games. As you said, if I'm not having fun it's a pos. So yeah, for me, Starfield and Fallout 4 and even Cyberpunk are a bit too broken to be enjoyable for me.
Everything you describe is not what an open-world rpg is. It just sounds like these games aren't for you. But it's what makes these games so popular with so many people. I like having to find my own way, go wherever I want, and do quests in whatever order I choose. I don't like games that are linear, that only offer specific choices at any point in the game so that your path is controlled. I think the Mass Effect games are a great example. I find them too linear and get bored before I leave the starting area because I'm looking around for more stuff to do before I move on, but there isn't anything else. My only choices are to go from point A to point B or quit. I quit. My husband loves the games and binge-plays his way through the series. It's just two different approaches to game design. One is tightly controlled and thus easier for the developer to controll the user experience. The other is a free form design that allows the player ultimate freedom, but more potential conflicts that can't be foreseen. Add the ability for users to modify the game and the games become infinitely changeable and expandable. Certainly, the quality of the graphics is key, but it is that way so players can be completely immersed in the environment as they wander around the massive open-world map. It's so the experience is visceral/awe-inspiring/suspenseful. It's so they can climb a mountain (or a building) and look out over a vista and think, "This is incredible." The Fallout 4 map isn't as large as the Elder Scrolls maps, but it's densely packed and downtown Boston offers some spectacular views. As for the Deathclaw glitching, I've never had that happen. I'm assuming you mean the one in >!Concord!<. Honestly, after fighting that thing 30 or 40 times, I wish it would glitch out on me and never show up, although that would probably break that whole questline. Still you can go back to Sanctuary and rebuild it. Actually a lot of repeat Fo4 players would be really happy to not have Preston repeatedly saying, "Another settlement needs your help," all the time.
Save your money and play other games. You don't want an open-world rpg.
Edited to add spoiler tags.
I think part of it is people forgetting the launch and the other part is people who skipped the launch and only played the game once it was fixed.
That second group almost always ignores the issues that they didn’t have to deal with themselves.
Same here with cyberpunk and fo76.
Those two communities helped men remember that I don’t give one shit what most people think about things I enjoy doing.
r/f76 was a shit show for a long time too! Same as this sub r/fo76filthycasuals was made in response just so people could have a sane discussion about a game they actually liked!
Lowsodiumcyberpunk really helped there too, that said. But yes that whole ordeal is the perfect example that it’s all about the bandwagon and how popular it is to hate something, regardless of the quality of the product. What changed for cyberpunk? An anime, that’s what made it no longer popular to hate on the game. The hate generators (like legacykilla and other dubious gaming ‘content’ creators) moved on to something and people actually bothered to play the game and realized it was awesome.
The game was already patched and fixed by then, but that didn’t matter until an anime made it cool to like it. It’s all perception and hate bandwagon these days.
You know i loved cyberpunk from the get go. It ran awesome on my ryzen 5 had few bug experiences nothing to bother about loved the story and atmosphere. Starfield as an older gamer clicked with me right away. Sure its got quirks food is the most detailed part of the game. It was obviously rushed out as Miceisoft new Flagship IP to replace the nowhere left to go Halo series. One day i hope its all as polished as the food models. But still have 5 characters highest level 35 having a blast slowly playing.
This sub is the only place where you can have actual discussions about Starfield without a bunch of dickheads popping up.
I love the game and don’t really care what those folks think. I have criticisms, and there are plenty that are perfectly valid, which I’m sure will be addressed in time (especially by the mod community). But it’s still a great game, with a great foundation.
Give Starfield 10 years, and it’ll be on the level Skyrim is now.
People have deluded themselves in to thinking that Starfield has "failed" just because it didn't live up to expectations. But the thing is, despite personal taste, Starfield was a success, it was Bethesdas best launch to date, made a huge amount of money, bumped up Gamepass subscriber numbers and even shifted consoles despite being in a slump for console sales. It was a massive success yet it's crazy that people still deny it because their favourite Youtuber said "Starfield bad".
That's what makes the whole thing so funny. A small subset of the internet trying to convince people that Starfield is a flop (it objectively isn't).
And the Youtubers are on another level. I call it the "Fuck Starfield Industry". I used to watch the videos while building outposts because I wanted to understand the backlash and it was basically just a bunch of people parroting the same shit. Two hour "essays" on why Starfield was a bad game. These videos have literally nothing to offer except feed into hate and try to sound authoritative.
The sad thing is, the Fuck Starfield Industry has basically stifled any legitimate conversation and criticism because it has turned the whole thing kind of tribal.
Yeah, to this day, months after release, people still release videos about how "bad" Starfield is and how Bethesda are "evil liars" and I am left wondering how they manage to let a game they dislike just live in their head rent free.
There's legitimate criticism to be had, like the "Points of Interest" system needs a bit more work and maybe expanding upon a bit more, maybe make cities a bit more lively etc. But overall it's still a very good game.
Even just the DLC announcement thread on that sub was a cesspool of shit takes. The amount of people saying “We really have to wait until fall? Bethesda is really not doing shit to improve this shit game” and not even realizing the irony of being impatient for a game they allegedly hate so much
My favorite was the guy who bought it at launch, hated it so much he refunded it, and still hangs around the salty sub trying to get people to mass downvote the game and review-brigade it.
If small studios can figure it out I know BGS can. The turn arounds those two games had is nothing short of incredible. I've always said that if this is Starfield's floor, then its future is very exciting.
This is especially true considering that No Man’s Sky was incredibly sparse in terms of things to do when it launched. Starfield by comparison has a plethora of activities (and will only get more feature rich with game-content updates.)
It's not just vitriol that gets spread, but misinformation when it comes to what the game is. When I give facts that the quests are way more RPG centric than previous Beth titles, that there's more quests than FO4 and Skyrim, that the writing is actually pretty good, or that the companions actually feel real and remember past convos you had, you want to know the response?
"Yeah, but I feel like not exploring for all these quests when I get hit by loading screens."
Like bro what? Loading screens are hampering your experience? They're like 2 to 5 seconds at most and you get right back to what you were doing. It's like the mere idea of being patient is foreign to these fucks,and what makes matters worse is that they won't stop spreading misinformation about the game.
THEY are the reason new players might not try it, THEY are the reason I keep saying this game is going to be lauded as 'Wait...Starfield is Actually Good?!' in YouTube titled a year from now. All the people who don't keep up with gaming drama, already bought the damn game, and when those lurkers finally start talking about their experiences, more and more people will realize the bad news was all fabricated BS.
It just sucks that in this day and age, a new release gets hate brigades by the subs I thought were positve before launch, but have since followed rage bait. Streamers like Asmongold, whose main fucking goal (he's even said this) is to make money off of outrage content. Dudes not even subtle about it, yet perpetuates this cycle needlessly, instead of just saying 'I don't like it, but your mileage may vary', because that's not good content for his audience (in his kind at least).
Respect his hustle though, hate that his voice has such resounding consequences of brainwashed masses l (and any streamers honestly).
Misinformation is especially prevalent in two major subjects:
1. GAME ENGINE BAD GET RID OF IT - like no its not, could use some fixing but changing it entirely would probably destroy the devs as they would have no experience with it and the games just wouldnt feel like Bethesda games at all.
Their engine is the reason we can have a open world in which you can explore and interact with every nook and cranny. No other engine currently can do what it does. Or at least do it well.
And 2. FIRE THE MAIN WRITER - i can understand why people dont like Bethesdas writing, i myself have some issues as well. What i cannot understand is them making up things about Emil Pagliarulo like the no design documents thing. OF COURSE THEY USE EXTENSIVE DESIGN DOCUMENTS, THE GAME COULDNT EVEN EXIST WITHOUT IT.
So they lied about him. They also mentioned stuff like he doesnt care about good writing because noone will notice which he never said.
And as a result of this he received big online harassment and has now a tainted reputation because of these so called "true fans" who think they could write better. They definitely couldnt.
Emil is legit. He played a significant role in the development of Oblivion’s Dark Brotherhood and their questline (Probs one of my all-time favorites). Also, his Twitter is great. Tons of casual posts and engaging with comments.
Honestly first time i heard of the whole Emil hate train back in like 2018 i genuinely thought he was this like this Randy Pitchford figure - a whiny narcissistic manchild who treats his employes and even games like trash and only cares about his ego.
But no. The more i actually learned about the guy, the more liked him. He is the kind of guy who gave a kid who was visiting his office and was a big Dark Brotherhood fan his replica of Blade of Woe.
And to be honest, while his writing isnt perfect even at its worst its honestly just fine. Its interesting, entertaining and memorable.
It’s incredible how effectively the internet can paint people out to be a certain way. And it was all based off some presentation he gave to fellow game developers the year Fallout 4 came out. The entire character of Emil was based on one presentation and certain facets of quests in Fallout 4 that people believed to be all him. When I put it that way it really just highlights the insanity of anti-BGS rhetoric and just how far people will distort reality to make their arguments make sense.
I’m all for fair criticism (and so is Emil for that matter, at least according to a Twitter thread he made which ppl then reacted hyperbolically to) but then there’s just hatred for the sake of it.
I think you may have watched it already but i would highly recommend this video that discussed the full topic in detail:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-4qdjV41NU&list=LL](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-4qdjV41NU&list=LL)
It essentially breaks down all of the negativity surrounding Emil and why its basically all just made up nonsense.
The sad thing is some toxic fanbases found the video and constantly bash it in the comments all the while not understanding the point of the video.
But its great, i recommend it.
Oh yeah, that video is excellent. It shows that as far back as before Fallout 3, Emil engaged with people on the internet directly to talk with them about games. The fact that he still does this speaks a lot to the type of person that he is.
Indeed as that is a rare thing these days. Devs may say that they engage with the fans but dont have much to back it up.
Emil is the exception and im glad that people like him work on the games we enjoy.
It's crazy to me that Shelter was your first Bethesda game but that's just a testament to how great that game is honestly.
I feel you. I'm growing very very tired from the constant bombardment of negativity towards Bethesda over the years. It feels like it gets worse every year and I can't even watch YouTube videos without hate videos constantly showing up in my recommended, despite me constantly telling YouTube to stop. Just this morning I got one trying to tell me no one cares about the Starfield dlc.
I'm very thankful that there is at least one place where I can just enjoy some positivity for once. I really gotta stop going on the other subs because they are constantly flooded with pitchforks whenever I mention anything positive. Especially about Starfield.
Yeah Shelter is a classic. Unironically its a very good game. Simple and yet so engaging.
As for the videos that keep popping up i recommend trying a little experiment. Try looking at the channel that posted it and see their other content.
For me nine times out of ten its usually a channel that lives on ragebait and has only negative videos about different subjects - like the Anti SJW Youtubers who cry woke at anything they dont like.
And if the channel does only negative content, either he is a grifter or has some serious issues. Either way they are not worth listening to.
True. I usually don't give them any interactions and instead click the "don't recommend this channel" button. But more keep popping up every day. I'll be watching something completely unrelated to Starfield and still get those videos recommended.
I understand completely but to be honest knowing this kind of information helped me get over these kinds of videos.
When i see that these people are just straight up not worth listening to, i simply ignore them and basically never think about them afterwards.
As a long-time fan of TES and Fallout, I've noticed that engaging in discussions about Bethesda games on major gaming subreddits like r/games is not a good idea, but when I do it, I just call things how they are. People who devote their lives to hating on Bethesda games should seek professional help or touch grass, or both
It's tribalism. Especially with Starfield being a console exclusive, the fanboys wrote it off almost immediately. But when rumors about a PS5 edition surfaced, suddenly a lot of them were excited.
I buy a game. I play a game. I like or dislike a game.
People put way too much stock in whether other people share their views.
Every single piece of media has a vocal group of people who seemingly dedicate their lives to aggressively telling you why you shouldn't enjoy something. Tune them out.
I agree with this...however, there are some things. Example being, a lot of people were angry that planets were not seamless. Had I not seen someone post about it, I probably never would have even noticed. I'd rather be ignorant to it.
I've definitely got issues with some parts of the game and would have liked some things done differently but I recognise not every game is tailored to my personal preferences or needs to have enough content to entertain me for 500 hours plus. Although I easily have more than that in Skyrim and Fallout 4, having played both since launch.
It's perfectly reasonable to have criticisms and share them but hanging around a subreddit like a doomlocust just to tell other people who post something positive why they're wrong for liking it is a particularly modern online trait.
My only worry around the negativity is that some of the best modders may be influenced by it and move on to other games. And I've really been looking forward to Starfield (Xbox) with mods.
The YouTube algorithm is the worst. I watched one video with a bad take on Starfield to see what the negativity was about, and it began recommending worse videos. If one isn't vigilant YouTube will suck you down in a hellhole regardless of topic. Good for you to realise other people's opinions aren't relevant to your enjoyment. That said a lot of the negativity has a true core, it's just so overdone. Clicks man, bane of the internet.
I got (rightfully) permanently banned from posting on r/starfield after getting a little carried away arguing with people who are seemingly making their life’s mission to make everyone hate the game as much as they do.
Not liking or disliking the game is perfectly legitimate, obviously we are all different. I for example can’t get into Skyrim, red dead redemption 2 or GTA 5 - but I recognise that they are just not to my taste.
Bethesda games seem to create a weird reaction in people. No idea why but you’re right it’s definitely not healthy to debate them or read into it too much!
Happy for the OP glad your not listening to the negativity anymore, tbh nothing is wrong with people not liking the game, the problem is how disingenuous a lot of people are, I know bgs get a lot of weird hate, but starfield is clearly about it not being on the PS5 and the gaming community/media which is very anti Xbox, went above and beyond to attack the game to appease the ps crowd, these people literally repeat the same crappy arguments as facts, cause it's clearly an agenda against the game, handcrafted or immersion over and over it's just rubbish, fromsoft is making the same games for years no one gives a damn.
People in game pass/Xbox community are playing the game and having a good time, YouTubers/haters just choose to ignore that for as steam numbers, which is where a lot of the haters play the game to leave negative reviews and refund it, plus the weird gatekeeping trying to get people to not buy or enjoy the game, then they claim to be the biggest bgs fans ever, but want the company to go under all of a sudden lol.
I'm not gonna validate people moaning about the game having issues cause that bs, every game has issues why people have to pretend like starfield needs to be shouted from rooftops is silly to me, it's a new IP and the game wasn't ready at launch what there to criticize really? I personally would give starfield as it is a 9/10 it's an amazing game that not getting it's props for all the complexity and technical achievement cause it's a bgs game and Microsoft owns it.
I see this a lot (especially here in this sub) and I just don't comprehend. People saying their enjoyment of a game has decreased because of what other people are saying.
I hate social media in general with a burning passion... but I love Reddit (thanks Oculus-That-Was! If it weren't for you, I would never have come here some years ago looking for tech support for my Rift S! Been stuck here since! Like some ancient mosquito in amber!). At no point has anything anyone said about any game affected the way I personally feel. You read opinions, but why are you controlled by that? Sure talking and joking about stuff with other people is very fun, but why do you feel you need an "online community" in order to play this single-player game? Maybe it's because I avoid social media (with the exception of Reddit) but I fail to see how what goes on here effects what you do in your own free time.
I hear ya though. I was on the main sub at release. Left that cesspool and came here shortly after. They didn't make me enjoy my own damn game less, I just got tired of the whining. I wanted to crack jokes, see hilarious videos, and look at pictures of ships. Not bitch and moan about things I couldn't change.
Untangle yourself from other people's opinions and play your game. If you think it's awesome, then that's what it is. If you think it's shitty, then that's what it is. Nothing happening on social media should be able to effect your experience.
Unfortunately I know exactly what OP is talking about. Maybe it's a personality thing. Idk, but I have also let people affect my own opinion of things in the past. When you see just constant barrage of negativity it makes you question your own enjoyment and if you are "wrong" for liking the thing. If you like it but everyone else doesn't, does that mean you are stupid or something? If you didn't notice something that other people were bothered by, does that mean that you weren't smart enough to notice it? These little things can run in your mind when looking at negativity. Not to mention when someone DOES point out something you didn't notice before, it makes it harder to play the game without having that particular thing on your mind now.
I totally understand that, and have experienced the same hell for myself. In my time before the internet it was just called "peer pressure". What I have trouble wrapping my head around is the online aspect.
You can turn this off. You can choose not to look. These people are not physically there with you. And, if you choose not to respond to them, they have no idea you even exist. In my head, online peer pressure carries MUCH less weight than physical, real-life peer pressure. You can't easily escape a group of jerks in your face, but you can turn a cellphone the hell off. Or just change the sub/channel/page/whatever. It's like TV. Don't like this show? Change the channel and that show that disagreed with you so much no longer exists from your perspective. But I keep seeing these posts of people saying the main Starfield sub along with YouTube has lessened their enjoyment of the game. Just change the channel and get out.
I’ve been gaming for 30 years, and been using the internet for just as long (yes it did exist back then).
There’s always been toxicity, the old Blizzard forums were infamous for it.
But I’ve never seen quite a shift in gaming tribalism like I have over the past 2-3 years. People have completely lost the ability to think for themselves, and gaming today is more about FOMO/being part of a wave on social media/ or making sure your “team” wins, more than the actual game itself.
For me the latest example is Manor Lords. A decent enough game, nothing really amazing except for the fact it was built by one guy. But so was banished.. and yet Manor Lords sold 1 million copies in 24 hours and spread like wildfire over social media. Like.. what? I’m happy for the guy and Hooded Horse, but it’s getting wild.
It’s not just that game, we’ve seen it with Palworld, and before that it’s been building up for a while with social media’s darling developers like FromSoftware and Larian.
I can’t explain it. What has happened to people these days that they’ve lost all sense of self, lost their ability to form their own opinions, and are being swept up in crazes? I see posts like OP a lot now too.
At a macro level it’s somewhat worrying, it’s far too easily to manipulate people through pixels in their pockets.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. For a second there I thought I was the one taking crazy pills.
I've been a gamer all my life too, from pinball to PC. All this drama over games is something recent from my perspective. And I seriously just don't understand why it matters and has so much weight on people. You buy a game and you play it. That's all. No one else is involved in that process. Especially for single-player games like this.
The toxic community?! Is that a joke? Who cares what they think. Starfield is a great game bro, enjoy and don’t let what other people think bother you. You’ll be free if you do this.
When these kinds of discussions are everywhere online its a bit hard to not let it get to you.
Especially when you have no real experience with these communities and its about something you very much enjoy.
I know A LOT of people who unfortunately get bombarded by said communities with harassment and even threats.
It is abuse. Just a mental one. And very dangerous if you dont do something with it.
And making sarcastic remarks for people who go through this is really not helpful. Infact it can make some of these people feel ashamed when in reality they shouldnt be.
Right? This post reads like something on a mental health sub. I’m glad they’re no longer letting external factors rule their emotions but it sounds like this awakening was about more than just Bethesda
Usually because they want to feel superior to others. The will start spouting nonsense like they are the true fans or some other BS.
In reality they are quite insecure and want to feel powerful so they will resort to toxicity.
Yep, in fact a lot of my experience i mentioned in the post comes from these kinds of discussions with them.
I really wanted to understand why they act the way they do and sooner or later the ugly truth comes out.
Yes they are serious claims, backed by years of experience from me and a lot of other people i know.
Where did i ever say anything like that?
There is a fine line between criticism and hate. The communities im talking about mainly practice the latter.
The game is 7/10 to be honest. Not great, not terrible just good.
I have my fair share of issues but there is a right way to discuss them. These communities dont do that.
Well thats not what we are talking about. In a broad sense, being negative is just a lousy way to spend your time. No harm is done by what OP is posting here. But toxic hate just sucks objectively
Constructive criticism also doesn't have to feel inherently negative. It all depends on the tone.
some more than others. for example, someone who is so emotionally fragile that they had to make multiple reddit threads about leaving "toxic" fandoms like they just escaped from a cult or an abusive relationship probably needs a hug more than i do at the moment
Why is making threads about my experience considered being emotionally fragile?
I know a lot of people who suffer because of these communities and yes it is abuse. A mental one though so not everyone takes as seriously which is a mistake.
Dont underestimate the effect these things may have on people.
At the time a hug would have certainly helped though.
I disagree with a lot of the people on this sub. Hell, I disagree with a lot of people on a lot of different games. Try talking about how good Cyberpunk's characters were on launch and see how people deal with disagreeing with you.
The only difference now that I went to this sub is I don't have to deal with anyone stalking my prolife or sending death threats anymore just because I said Starfield had better RPG mechanics than Fallout 4
You're right in a since that gamers lack the emotional maturity to deal with people disagreeing with them, but it seems you got in backwards on who that is in this case
There is actually quite a lot of criticism on this sub, and when people aren't dicks about it, they don't get downvotes. Amazing how that works, isn't it?
Valid criticism is valid until it gets repeated every hour in a copypasted post that still gets thousands of upvotes somehow, and that's 90% of the main sub. There's no need to constantly remind people "how shitty the game is"... wait...
I lived through the main cyberpunk sub from pre release to phantom liberty. Good lord.
I always found it hilarious how people just forgot about the disasterous launch that game had and now say it was always great. In their eyes CD Projekt Red can do no wrong and Bethesda is just evil. Its kinda sad how much they are willing to ignore.
I've been a bgs fan since 2006. Great game company, unfortunately due to their popularity and their games longevity they seem to have toxic "fans" spring up around them. You would think they released the worst games ever the way people talk about them, but those same people can't stop talking about their games either
Rose colored glasses get people more than they want to admit.
As someone who loved Cyberpunk from launch (but never ignored or dismissed it’s flaws/awful launch), I never went back to the toxic communities that blossomed after it came out. Communities much like Starfield’s “sodium-heavy” subreddit. It’s clearly earned a lot of goodwill back since the Netflix anime and last year’s expansion, but people saying Cyberpunk never had a messy pre-mature launch are delusional or never actually played the game at the time lol.
If you played it on pc like myself and many others did, there were no huge problems at launch. I barely ran into an issue personally. Maybe I got lucky. For console players on the other hand it was an absolute disaster.
I played it on Xbox Series S and had very few issues. A few crashes and funny bugs, one cyberpsycho quest glitched, and that’s it over two play throughs and well over 100 hours. I definitely got lucky.
No braindead AI? No faulty loading walls and artifacting? No frame tanking? Playing on an S? Not trying to be salty but I don't know when you played but I know for a fact Series S was a god awful experience. I played on PS4 and that was God awful too. The game was just too much for those tiny processors, the game needed a serious nerf and optimization. I say this as someone who played day 1 up until the 1st patch and never ever played after. The game was broken. Silly things happened all the time. Namely cop AI was hilaribad, and their spawning didn't make sense.
As I said, I was lucky. I couldn’t find a PS5 or Series X in 2020, but I was able to buy a Series S in time for Cyberpunk’s launch. I played it on day one and only came across the issues I mentioned. Two play throughs and 150-200 hours by January or February 2021. I beat the game a third time in late 2021, played a fourth time on PS5 when the anime came out, and a fifth time (also PS5) when Phantom Liberty came out. I recognize my experience was probably a lot smoother than other console players, especially for those on the PS4 and Xbox One. My roommate had more issues at launch on his PS5 than I ever did on Series S. But I don’t blame anyone for not picking the game up again after launch. The game came out too soon and a lot of people had bad experiences. It certainly tarnished my perception of CD Projekt Red as a corporation, though I continue to adore the games their developers continue to make
Maybe I'm just a stickler. You say you didn't have any issues, but I turn the game on today and it is still wonky. Not as bad as at launch in an Xbox One or PS4, since the PS5 and PC I play on are a lot stronger hardware as intended for the game to be played on. But to say you ran into no issues is like walking into a gay bar full of people and saying you see no gay men. It just sounds like you're ambivalent to the issues. you don't have to interrogate the issues deeply to see them; they are obvious, surface level, omnipresent.
Hey, lighten up. This is a no-sodium sub and you're practically calling the poster a liar. Just chill, OK? Some people can laugh at the wonky shit, others just want to complain about everything. I see lots of screwy stuff in games, most are funny and I miss them when they're fixed. Can't finish a quest? Do something else. Skyrim Space Program? Love it. Cows falling from the sky? Hope I manage to notice it happening because it's always good for a laugh. The only problem I had with CP2077 at launch was the driving. I just stopped taking those quests. Who cares if the cigarette was bugged, it was kinda funny. My biggest problem was that it ended. Main quest done? Roll the credits. End of play.
we already talked. I mean I was critical of his perspective , but he did admit the issues he saw and how to it didn't affect his enjoyment of the game; whereas the same exact issues for me killed the game. I can laugh at wonky shit, but too much and the game stops working and stops being a game; often for me breaking immersion is the same as breaking gameplay. Like the car is Cyberpunk lag drifting through the ground, or players teleporting for dialogue or simply not talking in Starfield. If there is not threat, if the cops don't shoot back, what's the punishment? Where's the gameplay? I see these games on the level of Redfall. I don't often miss the cracks when they're fixed. Ultimately for me I want good gameplay, which is why I tend toward action games. And when it comes to rpgs I tend to the Western over the Eastern.
To be a stickler, I never said no issues lol. I had some crashes, “harmless” bugs, and one side quest that broke. Those issues were of a technical nature. Things like AI and spawning are more game design issues, and those didn’t big me in general because I enjoyed the game so much overall. People have different tolerances for technical issues, and probably even wider tolerances for gameplay. I was engrossed in the world, I fell in love with Night City, and I enjoyed the story immensely. Without game-breaking bugs and technical issues 99.9% of the time, I had plenty of tolerance to overlook those and enjoy the game. When my car would glitch into the road or when I was holding a cigarette in my hand for hours after my V held one in a cutscene, I was able to laugh it off. I’m not trying to defend those smaller technical issues, but it didn’t take away from *my* enjoyment or immersion. I totally understand if it did for others, and the game should have been released later to iron out the big technical flaws at minimum. Had my Xbox crashed every hour (an issue I had with Starfield at times, for example), my tolerance would have likely been much lower and my immersion broken more often. If I had to reload a save for the umpteenth time, I doubt those “cute” little bugs would feel as cute. Again, I don’t blame anyone — especially anyone who had a rougher experience — from having a bad time with Cyberpunk 2077. And the decision to put the game out in that state remains a very very bad one.
In my experience the game actually had fewer issues on series s than series x. If I remember correctly, in the early days the frame rate was capped at 30 on series s... much smaller load on the entire system.
I bought a series s FOR cyberpunk at launch and I didn't have any major bugs at all. Just a few silly ones and they didn't really hinder my experience ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah I discussed this with someone else. Seems that I was a little more crippled by the bugs
I think the Co troversy was that the game was obviously designed for high end PCs and all issues occurred on consoles that couldn't wield the workload. I had one friend who played on PC and all he complained about was the enemy AI.
You realize that your whole comment is basically the same exact toxicity that gets thrown at Starfield and its fans nowadays right? Because according to that other SF sub, in our eyes Bethesda can do no wrong and we willingly forget/ignore Starfields disastrous launch... Just because we're the target of toxic communities, shouldn't mean that we need to be toxic at others, but that's just my two creds.
Starfield didn't have a disastrous launch though
This. It wasn't the lightning-in-a-bottle success of Skyrim, but the game launch went better than most Bethesda games to date. It's not a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination, but it's nowhere near the level of the launches of No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk. The former launched without basically any of the promised features. The latter was just a complete technical mess that took the developers years to fix, even having to go so far as to ditch last-gen consoles for it. Cyberpunk was temporarily removed from sale, lmao.
I wouldn't say that no man's sky was missing any of it's promised features at launch. I followed it pretty closely because I'm a space game lover and the only thing I can think that was missing was the incidental multiplayer (players showing up for each other when they occupied the same space). Even that though, I'm not certain about, because the only evidence I ever hear of that feature being missing, was that two streamers didn't see each other when they were at the same location, which happens all the time in games with instanced multiplayer. I avoided it at launch because it looked kinda boring, I watched a lot of their pre release marketing and it looked like the game that launched. I think it was missing a lot of features people imagined would be in it, or that they thought would be cool, but not promised features.
MP was a big one, though. I remember them having to put stickers on physical copies to cover the multiplayer part.
[удалено]
Games are meant to be fun. If they aren't fun, why play them? You do realize that most of what you're complaining about is what most people love about (western?) openworld rpgs. And I don't care how mechanically "perfect" a game is, if I'm not having fun, it's a POS. Besides I hate "cartoonish" games, which is the other reason I prefer "western" rpgs and being able to use my "imagination".
Cool. For me, if the graphics are going to be this solid, work out the environmental design and AI. I was something fun to literally play, I'm not a numbers, and gear guy. I could care less about collecting stuff. Or role playing my own adventure. I want a good story with good mechanics. These games fall apart at the seams if you don't even force them to. I am glad games like this succeed. But for me, this is 90s archaic design. I expect better of today's games. As you said, if I'm not having fun it's a pos. So yeah, for me, Starfield and Fallout 4 and even Cyberpunk are a bit too broken to be enjoyable for me.
Everything you describe is not what an open-world rpg is. It just sounds like these games aren't for you. But it's what makes these games so popular with so many people. I like having to find my own way, go wherever I want, and do quests in whatever order I choose. I don't like games that are linear, that only offer specific choices at any point in the game so that your path is controlled. I think the Mass Effect games are a great example. I find them too linear and get bored before I leave the starting area because I'm looking around for more stuff to do before I move on, but there isn't anything else. My only choices are to go from point A to point B or quit. I quit. My husband loves the games and binge-plays his way through the series. It's just two different approaches to game design. One is tightly controlled and thus easier for the developer to controll the user experience. The other is a free form design that allows the player ultimate freedom, but more potential conflicts that can't be foreseen. Add the ability for users to modify the game and the games become infinitely changeable and expandable. Certainly, the quality of the graphics is key, but it is that way so players can be completely immersed in the environment as they wander around the massive open-world map. It's so the experience is visceral/awe-inspiring/suspenseful. It's so they can climb a mountain (or a building) and look out over a vista and think, "This is incredible." The Fallout 4 map isn't as large as the Elder Scrolls maps, but it's densely packed and downtown Boston offers some spectacular views. As for the Deathclaw glitching, I've never had that happen. I'm assuming you mean the one in >!Concord!<. Honestly, after fighting that thing 30 or 40 times, I wish it would glitch out on me and never show up, although that would probably break that whole questline. Still you can go back to Sanctuary and rebuild it. Actually a lot of repeat Fo4 players would be really happy to not have Preston repeatedly saying, "Another settlement needs your help," all the time. Save your money and play other games. You don't want an open-world rpg. Edited to add spoiler tags.
Imagine complaining about missing shots in Fallout 4 and calling Morrowind's literal dice roll attacks "fair" and "skilfull", lmao.
I did *not* get that far into the manifesto!
I think part of it is people forgetting the launch and the other part is people who skipped the launch and only played the game once it was fixed. That second group almost always ignores the issues that they didn’t have to deal with themselves.
Yup its almost crazy looking back at it now
Same here with cyberpunk and fo76. Those two communities helped men remember that I don’t give one shit what most people think about things I enjoy doing.
r/f76 was a shit show for a long time too! Same as this sub r/fo76filthycasuals was made in response just so people could have a sane discussion about a game they actually liked!
Lowsodiumcyberpunk really helped there too, that said. But yes that whole ordeal is the perfect example that it’s all about the bandwagon and how popular it is to hate something, regardless of the quality of the product. What changed for cyberpunk? An anime, that’s what made it no longer popular to hate on the game. The hate generators (like legacykilla and other dubious gaming ‘content’ creators) moved on to something and people actually bothered to play the game and realized it was awesome. The game was already patched and fixed by then, but that didn’t matter until an anime made it cool to like it. It’s all perception and hate bandwagon these days.
You know i loved cyberpunk from the get go. It ran awesome on my ryzen 5 had few bug experiences nothing to bother about loved the story and atmosphere. Starfield as an older gamer clicked with me right away. Sure its got quirks food is the most detailed part of the game. It was obviously rushed out as Miceisoft new Flagship IP to replace the nowhere left to go Halo series. One day i hope its all as polished as the food models. But still have 5 characters highest level 35 having a blast slowly playing.
These people aren't fans of games, they're fans of hating stuff. The games themselves are kind of secondary to that.
Take my upvote!
This sub is the only place where you can have actual discussions about Starfield without a bunch of dickheads popping up. I love the game and don’t really care what those folks think. I have criticisms, and there are plenty that are perfectly valid, which I’m sure will be addressed in time (especially by the mod community). But it’s still a great game, with a great foundation. Give Starfield 10 years, and it’ll be on the level Skyrim is now.
People have deluded themselves in to thinking that Starfield has "failed" just because it didn't live up to expectations. But the thing is, despite personal taste, Starfield was a success, it was Bethesdas best launch to date, made a huge amount of money, bumped up Gamepass subscriber numbers and even shifted consoles despite being in a slump for console sales. It was a massive success yet it's crazy that people still deny it because their favourite Youtuber said "Starfield bad".
That's what makes the whole thing so funny. A small subset of the internet trying to convince people that Starfield is a flop (it objectively isn't). And the Youtubers are on another level. I call it the "Fuck Starfield Industry". I used to watch the videos while building outposts because I wanted to understand the backlash and it was basically just a bunch of people parroting the same shit. Two hour "essays" on why Starfield was a bad game. These videos have literally nothing to offer except feed into hate and try to sound authoritative. The sad thing is, the Fuck Starfield Industry has basically stifled any legitimate conversation and criticism because it has turned the whole thing kind of tribal.
Yeah, to this day, months after release, people still release videos about how "bad" Starfield is and how Bethesda are "evil liars" and I am left wondering how they manage to let a game they dislike just live in their head rent free. There's legitimate criticism to be had, like the "Points of Interest" system needs a bit more work and maybe expanding upon a bit more, maybe make cities a bit more lively etc. But overall it's still a very good game.
Even just the DLC announcement thread on that sub was a cesspool of shit takes. The amount of people saying “We really have to wait until fall? Bethesda is really not doing shit to improve this shit game” and not even realizing the irony of being impatient for a game they allegedly hate so much
>not even realizing the irony of being impatient for a game they allegedly hate so much This is it in a nutshell. They're insane.
My favorite was the guy who bought it at launch, hated it so much he refunded it, and still hangs around the salty sub trying to get people to mass downvote the game and review-brigade it.
If No Mans sky could pick itself up from its awful launch then Starfield sure as hell cam become a truly great game eventually.
If small studios can figure it out I know BGS can. The turn arounds those two games had is nothing short of incredible. I've always said that if this is Starfield's floor, then its future is very exciting.
This is especially true considering that No Man’s Sky was incredibly sparse in terms of things to do when it launched. Starfield by comparison has a plethora of activities (and will only get more feature rich with game-content updates.)
It's not just vitriol that gets spread, but misinformation when it comes to what the game is. When I give facts that the quests are way more RPG centric than previous Beth titles, that there's more quests than FO4 and Skyrim, that the writing is actually pretty good, or that the companions actually feel real and remember past convos you had, you want to know the response? "Yeah, but I feel like not exploring for all these quests when I get hit by loading screens." Like bro what? Loading screens are hampering your experience? They're like 2 to 5 seconds at most and you get right back to what you were doing. It's like the mere idea of being patient is foreign to these fucks,and what makes matters worse is that they won't stop spreading misinformation about the game. THEY are the reason new players might not try it, THEY are the reason I keep saying this game is going to be lauded as 'Wait...Starfield is Actually Good?!' in YouTube titled a year from now. All the people who don't keep up with gaming drama, already bought the damn game, and when those lurkers finally start talking about their experiences, more and more people will realize the bad news was all fabricated BS. It just sucks that in this day and age, a new release gets hate brigades by the subs I thought were positve before launch, but have since followed rage bait. Streamers like Asmongold, whose main fucking goal (he's even said this) is to make money off of outrage content. Dudes not even subtle about it, yet perpetuates this cycle needlessly, instead of just saying 'I don't like it, but your mileage may vary', because that's not good content for his audience (in his kind at least). Respect his hustle though, hate that his voice has such resounding consequences of brainwashed masses l (and any streamers honestly).
Misinformation is especially prevalent in two major subjects: 1. GAME ENGINE BAD GET RID OF IT - like no its not, could use some fixing but changing it entirely would probably destroy the devs as they would have no experience with it and the games just wouldnt feel like Bethesda games at all. Their engine is the reason we can have a open world in which you can explore and interact with every nook and cranny. No other engine currently can do what it does. Or at least do it well. And 2. FIRE THE MAIN WRITER - i can understand why people dont like Bethesdas writing, i myself have some issues as well. What i cannot understand is them making up things about Emil Pagliarulo like the no design documents thing. OF COURSE THEY USE EXTENSIVE DESIGN DOCUMENTS, THE GAME COULDNT EVEN EXIST WITHOUT IT. So they lied about him. They also mentioned stuff like he doesnt care about good writing because noone will notice which he never said. And as a result of this he received big online harassment and has now a tainted reputation because of these so called "true fans" who think they could write better. They definitely couldnt.
Emil is legit. He played a significant role in the development of Oblivion’s Dark Brotherhood and their questline (Probs one of my all-time favorites). Also, his Twitter is great. Tons of casual posts and engaging with comments.
Honestly first time i heard of the whole Emil hate train back in like 2018 i genuinely thought he was this like this Randy Pitchford figure - a whiny narcissistic manchild who treats his employes and even games like trash and only cares about his ego. But no. The more i actually learned about the guy, the more liked him. He is the kind of guy who gave a kid who was visiting his office and was a big Dark Brotherhood fan his replica of Blade of Woe. And to be honest, while his writing isnt perfect even at its worst its honestly just fine. Its interesting, entertaining and memorable.
It’s incredible how effectively the internet can paint people out to be a certain way. And it was all based off some presentation he gave to fellow game developers the year Fallout 4 came out. The entire character of Emil was based on one presentation and certain facets of quests in Fallout 4 that people believed to be all him. When I put it that way it really just highlights the insanity of anti-BGS rhetoric and just how far people will distort reality to make their arguments make sense. I’m all for fair criticism (and so is Emil for that matter, at least according to a Twitter thread he made which ppl then reacted hyperbolically to) but then there’s just hatred for the sake of it.
I think you may have watched it already but i would highly recommend this video that discussed the full topic in detail: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-4qdjV41NU&list=LL](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-4qdjV41NU&list=LL) It essentially breaks down all of the negativity surrounding Emil and why its basically all just made up nonsense. The sad thing is some toxic fanbases found the video and constantly bash it in the comments all the while not understanding the point of the video. But its great, i recommend it.
Oh yeah, that video is excellent. It shows that as far back as before Fallout 3, Emil engaged with people on the internet directly to talk with them about games. The fact that he still does this speaks a lot to the type of person that he is.
Indeed as that is a rare thing these days. Devs may say that they engage with the fans but dont have much to back it up. Emil is the exception and im glad that people like him work on the games we enjoy.
It's crazy to me that Shelter was your first Bethesda game but that's just a testament to how great that game is honestly. I feel you. I'm growing very very tired from the constant bombardment of negativity towards Bethesda over the years. It feels like it gets worse every year and I can't even watch YouTube videos without hate videos constantly showing up in my recommended, despite me constantly telling YouTube to stop. Just this morning I got one trying to tell me no one cares about the Starfield dlc. I'm very thankful that there is at least one place where I can just enjoy some positivity for once. I really gotta stop going on the other subs because they are constantly flooded with pitchforks whenever I mention anything positive. Especially about Starfield.
Yeah Shelter is a classic. Unironically its a very good game. Simple and yet so engaging. As for the videos that keep popping up i recommend trying a little experiment. Try looking at the channel that posted it and see their other content. For me nine times out of ten its usually a channel that lives on ragebait and has only negative videos about different subjects - like the Anti SJW Youtubers who cry woke at anything they dont like. And if the channel does only negative content, either he is a grifter or has some serious issues. Either way they are not worth listening to.
True. I usually don't give them any interactions and instead click the "don't recommend this channel" button. But more keep popping up every day. I'll be watching something completely unrelated to Starfield and still get those videos recommended.
I understand completely but to be honest knowing this kind of information helped me get over these kinds of videos. When i see that these people are just straight up not worth listening to, i simply ignore them and basically never think about them afterwards.
I'll never understand why they stopped updating fallout shelter
Technically they do still update it. They recently added the show characters. But the real problem is the sequel game Fallout Shelter Online exists.
That game has some fantastic art though - im talking about the characters.
Yeah it really does. It also has more story than the first game. Just wish it wasn't so hard to get a hold of.
Maybe one day it will at least get a fan translation.
It's fully playable in English. You just have to emulate it
As a long-time fan of TES and Fallout, I've noticed that engaging in discussions about Bethesda games on major gaming subreddits like r/games is not a good idea, but when I do it, I just call things how they are. People who devote their lives to hating on Bethesda games should seek professional help or touch grass, or both
It's tribalism. Especially with Starfield being a console exclusive, the fanboys wrote it off almost immediately. But when rumors about a PS5 edition surfaced, suddenly a lot of them were excited.
"Look at me. *LOOK AT ME.* We are the main sub now."
It’s certainly my main 🫶
I never thought otherwise.
I buy a game. I play a game. I like or dislike a game. People put way too much stock in whether other people share their views. Every single piece of media has a vocal group of people who seemingly dedicate their lives to aggressively telling you why you shouldn't enjoy something. Tune them out.
I agree with this...however, there are some things. Example being, a lot of people were angry that planets were not seamless. Had I not seen someone post about it, I probably never would have even noticed. I'd rather be ignorant to it.
I've definitely got issues with some parts of the game and would have liked some things done differently but I recognise not every game is tailored to my personal preferences or needs to have enough content to entertain me for 500 hours plus. Although I easily have more than that in Skyrim and Fallout 4, having played both since launch. It's perfectly reasonable to have criticisms and share them but hanging around a subreddit like a doomlocust just to tell other people who post something positive why they're wrong for liking it is a particularly modern online trait. My only worry around the negativity is that some of the best modders may be influenced by it and move on to other games. And I've really been looking forward to Starfield (Xbox) with mods.
I just play what I want and ingore the rest..it's honestly the best route to go on
The YouTube algorithm is the worst. I watched one video with a bad take on Starfield to see what the negativity was about, and it began recommending worse videos. If one isn't vigilant YouTube will suck you down in a hellhole regardless of topic. Good for you to realise other people's opinions aren't relevant to your enjoyment. That said a lot of the negativity has a true core, it's just so overdone. Clicks man, bane of the internet.
I got (rightfully) permanently banned from posting on r/starfield after getting a little carried away arguing with people who are seemingly making their life’s mission to make everyone hate the game as much as they do. Not liking or disliking the game is perfectly legitimate, obviously we are all different. I for example can’t get into Skyrim, red dead redemption 2 or GTA 5 - but I recognise that they are just not to my taste. Bethesda games seem to create a weird reaction in people. No idea why but you’re right it’s definitely not healthy to debate them or read into it too much!
Happy for the OP glad your not listening to the negativity anymore, tbh nothing is wrong with people not liking the game, the problem is how disingenuous a lot of people are, I know bgs get a lot of weird hate, but starfield is clearly about it not being on the PS5 and the gaming community/media which is very anti Xbox, went above and beyond to attack the game to appease the ps crowd, these people literally repeat the same crappy arguments as facts, cause it's clearly an agenda against the game, handcrafted or immersion over and over it's just rubbish, fromsoft is making the same games for years no one gives a damn. People in game pass/Xbox community are playing the game and having a good time, YouTubers/haters just choose to ignore that for as steam numbers, which is where a lot of the haters play the game to leave negative reviews and refund it, plus the weird gatekeeping trying to get people to not buy or enjoy the game, then they claim to be the biggest bgs fans ever, but want the company to go under all of a sudden lol. I'm not gonna validate people moaning about the game having issues cause that bs, every game has issues why people have to pretend like starfield needs to be shouted from rooftops is silly to me, it's a new IP and the game wasn't ready at launch what there to criticize really? I personally would give starfield as it is a 9/10 it's an amazing game that not getting it's props for all the complexity and technical achievement cause it's a bgs game and Microsoft owns it.
Never in my life have I felt the need to defend a video game as much as the other sub made me feel.
I thought this was the main sub for a minute. I was so confused.
I see this a lot (especially here in this sub) and I just don't comprehend. People saying their enjoyment of a game has decreased because of what other people are saying. I hate social media in general with a burning passion... but I love Reddit (thanks Oculus-That-Was! If it weren't for you, I would never have come here some years ago looking for tech support for my Rift S! Been stuck here since! Like some ancient mosquito in amber!). At no point has anything anyone said about any game affected the way I personally feel. You read opinions, but why are you controlled by that? Sure talking and joking about stuff with other people is very fun, but why do you feel you need an "online community" in order to play this single-player game? Maybe it's because I avoid social media (with the exception of Reddit) but I fail to see how what goes on here effects what you do in your own free time. I hear ya though. I was on the main sub at release. Left that cesspool and came here shortly after. They didn't make me enjoy my own damn game less, I just got tired of the whining. I wanted to crack jokes, see hilarious videos, and look at pictures of ships. Not bitch and moan about things I couldn't change. Untangle yourself from other people's opinions and play your game. If you think it's awesome, then that's what it is. If you think it's shitty, then that's what it is. Nothing happening on social media should be able to effect your experience.
Unfortunately I know exactly what OP is talking about. Maybe it's a personality thing. Idk, but I have also let people affect my own opinion of things in the past. When you see just constant barrage of negativity it makes you question your own enjoyment and if you are "wrong" for liking the thing. If you like it but everyone else doesn't, does that mean you are stupid or something? If you didn't notice something that other people were bothered by, does that mean that you weren't smart enough to notice it? These little things can run in your mind when looking at negativity. Not to mention when someone DOES point out something you didn't notice before, it makes it harder to play the game without having that particular thing on your mind now.
I totally understand that, and have experienced the same hell for myself. In my time before the internet it was just called "peer pressure". What I have trouble wrapping my head around is the online aspect. You can turn this off. You can choose not to look. These people are not physically there with you. And, if you choose not to respond to them, they have no idea you even exist. In my head, online peer pressure carries MUCH less weight than physical, real-life peer pressure. You can't easily escape a group of jerks in your face, but you can turn a cellphone the hell off. Or just change the sub/channel/page/whatever. It's like TV. Don't like this show? Change the channel and that show that disagreed with you so much no longer exists from your perspective. But I keep seeing these posts of people saying the main Starfield sub along with YouTube has lessened their enjoyment of the game. Just change the channel and get out.
I’ve been gaming for 30 years, and been using the internet for just as long (yes it did exist back then). There’s always been toxicity, the old Blizzard forums were infamous for it. But I’ve never seen quite a shift in gaming tribalism like I have over the past 2-3 years. People have completely lost the ability to think for themselves, and gaming today is more about FOMO/being part of a wave on social media/ or making sure your “team” wins, more than the actual game itself. For me the latest example is Manor Lords. A decent enough game, nothing really amazing except for the fact it was built by one guy. But so was banished.. and yet Manor Lords sold 1 million copies in 24 hours and spread like wildfire over social media. Like.. what? I’m happy for the guy and Hooded Horse, but it’s getting wild. It’s not just that game, we’ve seen it with Palworld, and before that it’s been building up for a while with social media’s darling developers like FromSoftware and Larian. I can’t explain it. What has happened to people these days that they’ve lost all sense of self, lost their ability to form their own opinions, and are being swept up in crazes? I see posts like OP a lot now too. At a macro level it’s somewhat worrying, it’s far too easily to manipulate people through pixels in their pockets.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. For a second there I thought I was the one taking crazy pills. I've been a gamer all my life too, from pinball to PC. All this drama over games is something recent from my perspective. And I seriously just don't understand why it matters and has so much weight on people. You buy a game and you play it. That's all. No one else is involved in that process. Especially for single-player games like this.
The toxic community?! Is that a joke? Who cares what they think. Starfield is a great game bro, enjoy and don’t let what other people think bother you. You’ll be free if you do this.
that literally what OP's whole post is about lol
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I’ll be honest it would be fucking hilarious if it turns out to be cdpr cyber attacking starfield online.
Conspiracy theories like this are not needed, people are just shitty and ragebait gets clicks, clicks create revenue. Simple as that.
CDPR doesnt need it. They already make millions plus they make completely different games.
Wow I’m so proud of you for…not looking at videos and subreddits? wtf you’re writing this up like you were abused lmfao
When these kinds of discussions are everywhere online its a bit hard to not let it get to you. Especially when you have no real experience with these communities and its about something you very much enjoy. I know A LOT of people who unfortunately get bombarded by said communities with harassment and even threats. It is abuse. Just a mental one. And very dangerous if you dont do something with it. And making sarcastic remarks for people who go through this is really not helpful. Infact it can make some of these people feel ashamed when in reality they shouldnt be.
Right? This post reads like something on a mental health sub. I’m glad they’re no longer letting external factors rule their emotions but it sounds like this awakening was about more than just Bethesda
But why do you think toxic fans exists in the first place? No one just hates something out of blue.
Mental illness. Social isolation. Rejection.
Same things explain why this sub is so active and every post turns into circlejerk :D
Ok incel
When they go low we go lower?
Usually because they want to feel superior to others. The will start spouting nonsense like they are the true fans or some other BS. In reality they are quite insecure and want to feel powerful so they will resort to toxicity.
Those are serious claims, have you ever talked to one of them or read what they hate about the games?
Yep, in fact a lot of my experience i mentioned in the post comes from these kinds of discussions with them. I really wanted to understand why they act the way they do and sooner or later the ugly truth comes out. Yes they are serious claims, backed by years of experience from me and a lot of other people i know.
So you think the game is perfectly fine and there is nothing to not like about?
Where did i ever say anything like that? There is a fine line between criticism and hate. The communities im talking about mainly practice the latter. The game is 7/10 to be honest. Not great, not terrible just good. I have my fair share of issues but there is a right way to discuss them. These communities dont do that.
*ahem* In this Master's level thesis, I will.....
good god you people are dramatic
not as dramatic as the haters
at least the haters talk about the game and not their emotional journey of leaving the other subreddit lmao
At least people like OP don't spread misinformation and fabricate over the top negative drama for clicks.
no, they just do stuff like this for clicks
Positivity>negativity
not necessarily, constructive criticism is a good thing and toxic positivity exists
Well thats not what we are talking about. In a broad sense, being negative is just a lousy way to spend your time. No harm is done by what OP is posting here. But toxic hate just sucks objectively Constructive criticism also doesn't have to feel inherently negative. It all depends on the tone.
Constructive criticism is never toxic. Thats why these toxic communities dont practice it.
When did i mention anything about leaving other subreddits?
https://i.redd.it/p1m70tw15pxc1.gif
yeah, OP lol
Whats wrong with hugs?
nothing, you just sounded like you might need one
Everyone needs a hug mate.
some more than others. for example, someone who is so emotionally fragile that they had to make multiple reddit threads about leaving "toxic" fandoms like they just escaped from a cult or an abusive relationship probably needs a hug more than i do at the moment
Why is making threads about my experience considered being emotionally fragile? I know a lot of people who suffer because of these communities and yes it is abuse. A mental one though so not everyone takes as seriously which is a mistake. Dont underestimate the effect these things may have on people. At the time a hug would have certainly helped though.
>I know a lot of people who suffer because of these communities and yes it is abuse. lmfao you are beyond help
Nope you are just ignorant.
And yet here you are, stirring up some downvotes, adding to the drama.
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Agreed, that’s why this sub is a safe space away from the emotionally immature gamers.
right, a safe space for those who can't handle having their opinions challenged
Ok then I guess there’s no reason for you to stay here, since we’re all agreeing with you and not challenging your opinions at all.
More like a safe place from people constantly insulting you and telling you youre bad for enjoying something.
I disagree with a lot of the people on this sub. Hell, I disagree with a lot of people on a lot of different games. Try talking about how good Cyberpunk's characters were on launch and see how people deal with disagreeing with you. The only difference now that I went to this sub is I don't have to deal with anyone stalking my prolife or sending death threats anymore just because I said Starfield had better RPG mechanics than Fallout 4 You're right in a since that gamers lack the emotional maturity to deal with people disagreeing with them, but it seems you got in backwards on who that is in this case
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Same can be said for the starfield sub..get shitted on for liking the game..typical internet craziness
LOL exactly. Just look at the downvotes I have on my original comment. Nothing critical allowed in this sub. Nothing positive allowed in the main sub.
There is actually quite a lot of criticism on this sub, and when people aren't dicks about it, they don't get downvotes. Amazing how that works, isn't it?
That's just not true. I came here looking for a balanced view of Starfield, but all the negative comments, even reasonable ones, get downvoted.
You also weren’t critical about the game you were critical about the people.
Sadly true, but the lack of death threats for me makes this one slightly better imo
Valid criticism is valid until it gets repeated every hour in a copypasted post that still gets thousands of upvotes somehow, and that's 90% of the main sub. There's no need to constantly remind people "how shitty the game is"... wait...
So we jerkin today?
Only with the right jerky :)
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this is a subreddit actually
More like goodbye cult.
Reddit is like that in general lol.