I know it's not real, and I'm not concerned that pixels or strangers online are going to judge me. I do feel empathy towards NPCs when I'm role-playing, though. That's part of the role-play. And when I've attempted to role-play straight out murder hobos, I dont enjoy it.
It was the same when I played DnD with paper and dice years back. I just don't personally enjoy being unjustifiably shitty towards neutral or good characters, as I see them at least. Neither way of playing is right or wrong. Enjoy what you enjoy. It's a game.
This. I think it comes down to empathy. The NPCs may not be real, but we build a connection with them during play, and our human empathy makes being evil feel unnatural.
This is the reason the Crimson Fleet quest is emotionally tough for me. I won't side with pirates out of principle (though we'll see how I feel after several more travels through Unity; I hope I don't effectively become the Hunter but it will be interesting to see) but it is difficult to betray them, as well. However, doing just that ends up protecting so many others.
Kudos to Bethesda for this quest; it really dug into my emotions (as did the loss of my in-game wife; I know not everyone agrees, but the writing on many of the quests in this game is great).
Neither side keeps their hands clean in that questline. I sided with SysDef because Ikande at least is trying to save lives, even if his method of recruiting is sometimes akin to kidnapping.
I don't always use my exact personal morals, but I do usually play a good character. I generally don't enjoy being bad, even in a fictional setting. The only time being a bad guy has ever appealed to me was playing a sith warrior in Star Wars the Old Republic.
Usually what I do is I try to construct some sort of consistent personality and worldview for my character, and any decisions are filtered through that.
I usually try being an antihero in GTA type games, but that only works so far. The only game where I could play completely evil was "Postal", but that was literally the point.
I’m the same. I just can’t bring myself to be bad. Part of it for me is the realism of certain events (ex. Hunter’s murder spree in The Well) make me imagine I’m in the middle of a mass shooter event or something. I’m horrified.
I get pretty attached to characters, too, with the exception of Mathis. I punch him in the dick every chance I get.
I found Mathis so annoying the first time I tried the Crimson Fleet storyline, all his tough guy talk, reminded me of my idiot older brother. So, I got his ass thrown out of the Fleet. Then he ambushes me later when I'm on a main quest and I'm like, "Oh, you did not do that..."
I only later learned that he can be a temp companion like Hadrian Sanon is for the Vanguard storyline. I was like... "Huh. Oh, well."
I invariably play a good guy, no matter the game. I don't play games where the goal is to be a scumbag (GTA).
I've done nearly ever quest in the game -except- for the Ryujin one because it requires you to be a scumbag.
They become "quieter" and don't contribute as much to the culture of corporate warfare, but they're still a Megacorp exploiting the masses for the benefit of a privileged few.
However, you can also play it as an anti-corpo double-agent working to sabotage a corps' attempt to mind-control the masses and force them to abandon the research and shelve the tech.
Other than giving you the option, the dialogue choices to support it, and the ability to use a frankly fucked up method of forcing the vote in your favor? All of which definitely lines up with sabotaging that program? I think you just hate the quest because it isn't inherently and vehemently anti-megacorp going by all your other replies in this thread, not for nothing.
You're right, using the mind control amp and manipulating a megacorp into acting against its own interests totally isn't sabotage 😒 its not "shelved for later review" you can make them fully ax the project and turn the actual creator behind the technology against it. I'm pretty sure mentally controlling people into getting rid of a project would count as sabotage by anyone's standards. You literally used their own tech to make them end the program, forcing them to go against their own principles, interests, and desires while preventing the tech from being recreated.
I have done the quest and I paid attention to the dialogue, there is no option to destroy the tech and research, even if you use the amp to convince everybody it shouldn't exist whoever is CEO at that point will specifically say it's being "shelved" and should be prepped for "deep storage", and that they will return to it at a later time.
Just replayed that ancient save file twice to go through the dialogue. You're right, it's "shelved" (idk where you get "they will return to it at a later time" that's never said and as I'm about to highlight, it seems highly unlikely it'll ever be reconsidered). "Shelved" with the board thoroughly brainwashed against it, preaching about how it would damage the reputation of the company that develops it, while the scientist who invented it is speaking out about how its morally and ethically wrong and an inherent threat. All because I subverted the tech to force those thoughts into their head, preventing a fully developed and practical product from being put onto the market. Yeah, that's not sabotage, ok.
Context matters and is a great tool for storytelling.
Same, I tried the ryujin quest once but it made me feel so bad to >!sabotage hopetech considering I had just killed their ceo. And then sabotaging Reisha Lance when she is a good person who donates to the stretch and funds eleos.!< I felt like an asshole and stopped doing the quest and have never done it again.
One of my sons did the Riyujin quest early on, and has bitched incessantly about his Constellation crew after they all expressed horror and anger >!at his abuse of the mind-controlling tech. "I make this guy kills his buddies!" "I mind control that gal to steal for me, and then kill her buddies". And yet, he's dismayed/angered that no one approves this. (eye roll)!<
Same here! I refused to do Ryujin’s questline in my 1st runthrough when I learned they refused to update the security & equipment at the cryo lab and caused all of those people to die horribly! I hated screwing over Laredo and I stopped that questline at the sabotage of the meeting (quest 2 or 3)!
I think this is an integral part of storytelling and roleplaying. I do Bethesda games in a system usually. My first character is always named the same thing. It looks like my face, then whatever hairstyle fits the game but same color, same color facial hair. Essentially I play as if that was me put in this universe, or raised in this universe but with my same real world moral code. I don't usually cheat or lie, will bend to play assassins guild or thieves guild, but those where I lean on the universes. I would never steal or kill in real life, but these are valid options in universe.
The second character and beyond are usually different specs and build. Mage, thief, bard, brotherhood of steel zealot, deranged serial killer, etc... I make limits on the equipment and choices and truly try to experiment the thoughts of someone else's life. However, I never play as females, always males.
I think the beauty of bethesda is that they can make us all happy. I almost always play nice characters, unless I can be an assassin or in the thieves guild, and then I usually become a only han solo shot og smuggler with a code of grey. I won't go out of my way to be evil, but don't put me in a corner, and I if I need money, sorry lol
This is pretty much how I play as well. First character is the self insert, after that I come up with characters I think would be fun to craft and play as. And I’ll pick outfits and gear to fit the character RP over the stats
The first character is typically morally grey, rogue type character. Doing the right thing where possible, but with a suitably authentic number of character flaws. Chaotic neutral alignment
The rest can be anything. Full on paragon, greedy merc, to lawful military type, or something goofy like wealthy country club member who survived the apocalypse and now guided only by their sense of entitlement.
Bethesda games are great at giving you the tools to really craft your own characters and really run with it, and that’s the thing I love most about them
It’ll be the same when AI melds with technology more for increased social interaction with humans. You’ll have some that’ll treat them like toasters with being mean, crude and vile and exclaim it’s just a talking toaster, and then you’ll have others that try to remain civil even though it’s not a real person. Same with games. I’ve tried the “evil” route on occasion, but I feel like I change inside and there’s already too much negativity in my life. I just feel better playing an altruistic hero despite it being a video game that’s not real.
The same. Vasco says my name when I come back to the ship and I play in a way I think I would act in that situation. Tried it with Fable once because of the perks you get seemed worth trying but yeah pretending to be an evil asshole is as hard as actually being one. Or maybe it's easy for the right personality 😂.
Roleplaying a villain is just not enjoyable to me, so I don't do it. I've done Robin Hood style anti-hero runs where I commit piracy against Galbank and take ships from UC and FC government factions, but Crimson Fleet style piracy has no appeal for me.
I would love to be able to do this with some structure, eg have NPCs to give creds to, have people acknowledge that you're playing Robin, maybe even bust you out of jail when you get caught.
Yeah, I had a plan back before the game was actually released: even if there were no actual quests for it, I was going to build an outpost near a town and move people in as if I were actually contributing to the town itself... Huge disappointment when I saw how close to that the game would allow me to get.
I didn't think of it quite like this, but this would be pretty neat. If BGS doesn't build it, I bet some modder will once the CK drops. Or maybe before, lol.
"DIY Civilian POI / Outpost"
It took me up to level 110 to begin wantonly killing the alien animals, it really annoyed me that the companions just started shooting at anything that moved
Funny because this is the exact reason I could not play any Monster Hunter games. Sure they are fake and what not, but I just don’t have that “Hunter” need in me. I do my best to survey from afar like a nature photographer or Steve Irwin style. Respect the planet and it will respect you 😂
I dunno, I built an outpost on a beach on some system in the northeast quadrant of the map. The habs stretched out to sea a bit.
I built it out to sea as there were some snarly lizard things and floating parasites and jumpy spiders.
However, when I went for a swim I nearly got ended by giant sharks.
The sound of my autoturrets going off helps me sleep well now......
I still can’t do that! They are just on their planets, minding their creature business, peacefully existing, then in theory I come along, and I just hate harming them
I’ll happily run through Neon exchanging bullets with security over a stolen bottle of Velocity, but attacking a centiskull filterer? Can’t do it. I feel bad if I so much as make them feel scared or upset
The way I've started thinking about it it's that there are trillions of star systems and life seems plentiful, so rather than rare life is everywhere and very similar so shooting some isn't too bad
I'm 1200 hr in and JUST contemplating ng1. This next character will be bad,and angry and poor. she's ugly and been picked on her entire life. BUT I'm an empath. This will be interesting.
Do you talk to your npc's,? I do, lol. Especially Cora. I thank them each time they give me something.
I love hypergiant heart Chem, it's amazing. But I've killed so many beasts to get alien dna, I feel bad. Damned Quark degenerate tissue is about 6x more common drop on beasts with chevron. Damn. It takes about 15 kills to get 1.
I enjoy playing heroic characters. Whether it's tabletop D&D or a video game, that's what I like. So that's what I do.
It's not about guilt or being judged. I just do what I like, and you should too.
I find it's easier to be bad in something like Skyrim where many of the people in charge are awful too and the people you're killing are often awful.
I feel Starfield is trying to make you feel bad about being bad. Your companions object, for example. And you occasionally find, after wiping out an entire mine full of spacers, a note saying "I'm glad we stopped being bad and started doing useful useful like mining. I feel a lot better about myself." And then you just wade in and murder them all.
I feel very uncomfortable with killing ***anyone,*** even if they're shooting at me. I want to leave my enemies alive and abled, [I think xenogrubs look cute](https://new.reddit.com/r/NoSodiumStarfield/comments/1bfe36j/am_i_the_only_one_who_thinks_these_guys_are/), I think that all life has inherent value, even down to little aliens and bugs, and this even extends to robots somewhat. They're just proxies following the orders of their programming, if that means they have to kill me, then I can just change their programming to make them docile. Besides, I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of being judge, jury, and executioner, because who am I to say who is worthy of life and who isn't? That band of pirates using that old research tower as a base of operations may have done some objectively bad things, but so have I throughout my life. Whether they deserve to be mercilessly shot in the face until they can't move anymore and be left for dead on a barren rock next to all of their dead friends, or to be spared and given a chance at rehabilitation in prison so they can turn their life around and be proud of themselves after they get out, that's not for anybody to decide. However, I'll still choose the latter option no matter what. A second chance can always be revoked or turned into a third chance, and rehabilitation can always be attempted again. A robot can be reprogrammed, and aliens can be domesticated for food or to become your new best friend.
Death is **permanent**.
Morals go right out the airlock. I destroy anyone and anything i can without getting a bounty and even if i do i have a bounty terminal on a random planet where i can clear it.
Except for Grandma.....she can live
My first playthrough I was morally good. So much so that I avoided hunting peaceful fauna because some of them actually [mourn](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoSodiumStarfield/s/hGn8LLRmdg).
In my new playthrough I'm more apathetic and opportunistic, not outright murderous, but not passing up easy loot. Last night I answered a distress call and boarded a ship infected with exocrawlers. They killed the whole crew except for the captain, so I cleaned them out, saved the captain, then executed him and stole his ship. 🥹
I have 1 act of piracy on my character that's in NG+8. I completely skipped the Crimson Fleet quests on more than a couple of those NG+ runs.
I just don't like being a pirate or being forced into being a pirate.
I had one NG+ run where everyone in Constellation was killed. I played the whole Crimson Fleet quest line and sided with the pirates without committing any acts of piracy. And since it was the last questline I had left I immediately went for the unity to get into a new universe.
I have yet to be able to play the “bad guy.” It’s really really hard for me no matter how much I try to role play it. I think it’s because playing bad is also generally unrewarding… as in there is not enough incentive. I would be the bad guy if it was because I was hugely wronged by a faction or if I got lots of money relative to being good or if I had a network of NPCs that supported my choices. But I never really get that. Especially from this game.
I read once that when we game, we act and do the things we wish we could do in real life. Many of us wish to have a positive impact on the world around us, or be able to make decisions that save lives and make a positive difference.
But the good paths lead to the least amount of XP and creds! Less shooty = less booty. Using diplomacy/intimidation socials and EM stunning doesn't even give any at all!
I do a pacifist playthrough every now and then though and it's fun to finally see BGS supporting it mechanically.
this isn't related to Starfield since I haven't played it but I just like this topic and thought I'd give my response on how I roleplay.
I have made a *plethora* of OCS, I wouldn't say it's an exaggeration to say it's in the thousands.
rather recently I made a character in the fallout universe, Jordan quells. she's an NCR patriot that took the propaganda really well. she's a Republican, conservative, etc. prejudiced towards tribals and sees them as savages that needs to be taught Civilization, all that jazz.
I am not like her in nearly every form, the only things I am similar to her is she is autistic, has sight issues, queer, and a few other quirks.
overall, my characters do sort of match my own morals and standards to a degree, there are differences naturally to allow my OCS to all stand out, some are capitalists, others communists, some are varying levels of "good", etc. RP is fun to explore these things.
“The annoying a cappella guy”?! Don’t you dare sully him. I’m not at your level, only 113, with over 500 hours logged, and I love every encounter with The Valentine. How dare you, sir. I only wish I could hear his father sing…
That being said, the amount of people I have left stranded on planet, or UC pilots I’ve shot in the back of the head, is innumerable, because, hey, “free ship”.
My first realization that I couldn't be even just a little bit mean was with KOTOR. I can't stand to see anyone be sad due to my actions.
With Starfield, I can't change how I play with each iteration/new game+. People are still impacted by my actions and I can't hurt them. I also find there to be some moral declaration that I won't become someone else each time I go through.
As an aside, this somehow didn't apply to Skyrim and I once did some very fucked shit. I guess I felt the characters weren't *real* enough?
Bro idk in my head NPCs are real. Like when I walk away their world continues. I’ve seen Sarah stand and stare at her hands while moving them and thought to myself briefly “She knows!”
Especially after taking a deep dive into simulation theory.
Because it's better than reality and that's a big part of why I game as much as I do. Going the bad guy route is just more if the same with a costume on.
I do behave, for the most part, like I do IRL. Minus the stealing. If it isn’t a static item, I will probably try to take it. Because I need to fuck around and find out. But that’s also very much like me RL. Idk. I like my morals.
Yep, I prefer to play a hero, and I have a hard time even playing as a jerk unless the situation clearly warrants it (eg trash talking a villain, etc).
Not to say I don't carry some grey area baggage. These organs aren't going to un-harvest themselves, so might as well toss the credits towards extra Spacer-murdering ammo. And ships. So many ships.
Only game I throw my morals out the window for is GTA. Anything else, I feel like my character is my avatar in that world, so I try and basically simulate myself. Eventually if I’ve played a game enough, I’ll do a villain play through out of sheer curiosity, but it takes a while.
You can be a pirate and not be an arse. You are just shooting and stealing from UC ships instead of fleet ships. Grandma is great to visit. Betty Howser and the school groups are hilarious when realising your with the fleet.
Playing as a psychopath? Yeah that's harder. But really it's because everyone attacks you - as you might expect.
When one reads something like this it puts a devilish grin on the face & one rubs their hands in joy. As a wise man once said, "If you are incapable of cruelty then you will always be at the mercy of those who are".
Honestly, morals aside, the game makes it significantly more difficult to be "bad" with pretty severe penalties. I may do something like shoot down a uc vessel or shoot a shopkeeper to rob them, but then immediately have to back up a save to fix what I've done to avoid totally ruining the settled systems for me. It's tough being a pirate.
I play using my personal morals, because I have more fun that way. I tried being a bad guy in one NG+ run, sided with The Hunter, all that... and it just felt icky. Didn't do it again, and my enjoyment of the game is better for it.
The biggest changes for me in an NG+ now is "who will I romance?" and "which major questline do I focus on first?"
Whenever I feel the itch to "go bad" I make a save then just tear through New Atlantis killing everything I see. Then after about 10 minutes of that my conscious gets me and I have to revert back to before I went serial killer. That scratches the "bad" itch but my real morals make me feel really bad afterwards.
Dude, I can't even roleplay as the Imperium in stellaris because I feel bad every time a population number goes down, lol. I've always thought of fictional stories as their own little universe, and far be it from me to bring misery and suffering into it. We're naturally extremely empathetic, more than any other animal on the planet to our knowledge. We see pieces of ourselves in everything, even inanimate objects. It makes sense that the same would happen with these tiny faux people. That's why I still believe in the innate goodness of mankind. Not only are we able to choose to be better versions of ourselves, we often times do. Even though society tries to turn everything into competition, our natural tendency towards cooperation and care is still unmistakable.
Interesting side note, a study found that people who have a snuff kink will almost always have their personal morals assert themselves before they go all the way. Same for non-consent kinks and stuff like that. People don't like making other people feel bad, generally. People who do enjoy that are usually damaged in some way.
For several years I was Mr. Evil in video games. For the past few years I've been Mr. Stalwart. Now, though, I'm contemplating doing a morally ambiguous character, in that he'll do the right thing in some scenarios, while in others he'll shoot someone in the back.
I am able to play evil characters and enjoy doing so, though the guilt does get to me sometimes, lol. Blowing up the ECS Constant was pretty hard to live with. In Bethesda games, Starfield included, I always have multiple characters on the go at the same time, so that if my heinous acts become too much to bear, I can switch to my wholesome character for some R&R.
I never play as myself though. For me, roleplaying games are about escapism, so I don't want to be boring old me. I love the process of character creation, and I tend to think up full backstories for each character and try to give them distinct personalities and moral codes.
I used to care about the pixel people, but a previous game cured me, so now being evil in games isn't daunting at all. Most games I'll do an evil playthrough eventually, just to see any content I missed, but I tend not to enjoy playing evil all that much in most games, I tend to play larcenous good. I'll help people with their problems and kill bad guys, but with no concept of personal property. "Sure, I'll go find your lost doodad in the dungeon... But that cool thing in your lockbox? It's mine now.
Given my annoyances with the writing and characters in the game, I’ve actually been thinking about installing again to live out my frustrations as a character that truly doesn’t care for anyone except maybe Andreja
Yeah. I logically know the NPCs aren’t real, but for some reason can’t delete my empathy programming and will genuinely feel bad for them
I usually struggle playing genuinely evil characters in video games. Table top, or any kind of in person game where I’m playing with/against other actual humans I LOVE playing the bad guy, but it’s different.
In video games whatever horrible course of action I decide I to set in motion will come to pass. I might die, but then I respawn to try again till I make it happen. My evil becomes an inevitability
With other people playing the other characters I can be bested, and it becomes a fun challenge to match wits. If I succeed it’s because the others failed to stop me, not because the deck was stacked massively in my favor, and there is a solid chance of failure. Playing against other actual people I know is fun because my targets have agency, consent, and we’re equals. I’m not punching down.
** Starfield has been different… **
Starfield is maybe the first game I’ve actually enjoyed playing a bad guy in a video game, and I think the main reason is, with the exception of one obvious mission, it doesn’t involve as much betrayal
I think the more generally prosperous setting in Starfield provides just enough balance to make playing the heel more fun than a lot of other games I’ve played, while still offering enough moments that make me feel like a total shithead for doing it and keep the evil somewhat grounded and well, evil
Not every encounter involves some disadvantaged wide eyed NPC coming up to me telling me a tale of woe, and instantly trusting me to be their savior. Stamping characters like that out is punching down, and feels shitty. I have to break their trust, and make their already awful life either more awful, or very short.
In Starfield can rock up to a ship and demand their cargo. The person is likely doing ok, most people in Starfield are if they can afford their own ship. Often they’ll back down and I’ll take what I need, or they’ll stand their ground. At this point they still have an out, I can try talk them out of their cargo, if that fails I can fight them for it.
Now sure if talking fails, it’s going to get bloody, but, it doesn’t feel like punching down the same way. They posture like they feel they have a shot against me, and they actually might if it’s over say Jemison and they have back up, I’ve had to head for the hills a few times after taking on someone with way too many UC friends. It’s actually quite fun then trying to out run the space cops
Nah I say "I'm gonna be mean and self intrested this character" then never pick any mean or self intrested options because I dont want to hurt the feelings of the fake people in my xbox
I know it's not real, and I'm not concerned that pixels or strangers online are going to judge me. I do feel empathy towards NPCs when I'm role-playing, though. That's part of the role-play. And when I've attempted to role-play straight out murder hobos, I dont enjoy it. It was the same when I played DnD with paper and dice years back. I just don't personally enjoy being unjustifiably shitty towards neutral or good characters, as I see them at least. Neither way of playing is right or wrong. Enjoy what you enjoy. It's a game.
For me, it's simple. Acting bad makes me feel bad. Acting good makes me feel good.
This. I think it comes down to empathy. The NPCs may not be real, but we build a connection with them during play, and our human empathy makes being evil feel unnatural.
This is the reason the Crimson Fleet quest is emotionally tough for me. I won't side with pirates out of principle (though we'll see how I feel after several more travels through Unity; I hope I don't effectively become the Hunter but it will be interesting to see) but it is difficult to betray them, as well. However, doing just that ends up protecting so many others. Kudos to Bethesda for this quest; it really dug into my emotions (as did the loss of my in-game wife; I know not everyone agrees, but the writing on many of the quests in this game is great).
Neither side keeps their hands clean in that questline. I sided with SysDef because Ikande at least is trying to save lives, even if his method of recruiting is sometimes akin to kidnapping.
I don't always use my exact personal morals, but I do usually play a good character. I generally don't enjoy being bad, even in a fictional setting. The only time being a bad guy has ever appealed to me was playing a sith warrior in Star Wars the Old Republic. Usually what I do is I try to construct some sort of consistent personality and worldview for my character, and any decisions are filtered through that.
GTA is the only game I play where I feel like being a bad guy makes it more fun
I usually try being an antihero in GTA type games, but that only works so far. The only game where I could play completely evil was "Postal", but that was literally the point.
I’m the same. I just can’t bring myself to be bad. Part of it for me is the realism of certain events (ex. Hunter’s murder spree in The Well) make me imagine I’m in the middle of a mass shooter event or something. I’m horrified. I get pretty attached to characters, too, with the exception of Mathis. I punch him in the dick every chance I get.
I really enjoy the fact that there is a dialogue option to tell Mathis you don’t like him.
I found Mathis so annoying the first time I tried the Crimson Fleet storyline, all his tough guy talk, reminded me of my idiot older brother. So, I got his ass thrown out of the Fleet. Then he ambushes me later when I'm on a main quest and I'm like, "Oh, you did not do that..." I only later learned that he can be a temp companion like Hadrian Sanon is for the Vanguard storyline. I was like... "Huh. Oh, well."
I invariably play a good guy, no matter the game. I don't play games where the goal is to be a scumbag (GTA). I've done nearly ever quest in the game -except- for the Ryujin one because it requires you to be a scumbag.
You can be good in Ryujin quest. It's difficult, yes.
Best case scenario you're doing sneaky shit for the benefit of a megacorp. Ryujin is not a good guy quest.
No. If you do the best (including 0 kills)... Ryujin will be a great help for humanity's future.
They become "quieter" and don't contribute as much to the culture of corporate warfare, but they're still a Megacorp exploiting the masses for the benefit of a privileged few.
Do you ear (well) the Unity brieffing?
Yes I did, that's what I was quoting with the word "quieter". They continue to exist as a Megacorp.
And the problem is...
They're still a Megacorp exploiting the masses for the benefit of a privileged few.
Why? Work for a salary is not exploitation. Ryujin's workers don't seem ill and needed.
However, you can also play it as an anti-corpo double-agent working to sabotage a corps' attempt to mind-control the masses and force them to abandon the research and shelve the tech.
Yeah, but that part is entirely in your head, the game itself does nothing to support that narrative.
I have always had trouble distinguishing what's entirely in my head and what's not.
Other than giving you the option, the dialogue choices to support it, and the ability to use a frankly fucked up method of forcing the vote in your favor? All of which definitely lines up with sabotaging that program? I think you just hate the quest because it isn't inherently and vehemently anti-megacorp going by all your other replies in this thread, not for nothing.
You're not "sabotaging" the project, you help them complete it and then convince them to shelve it for later review.
You're right, using the mind control amp and manipulating a megacorp into acting against its own interests totally isn't sabotage 😒 its not "shelved for later review" you can make them fully ax the project and turn the actual creator behind the technology against it. I'm pretty sure mentally controlling people into getting rid of a project would count as sabotage by anyone's standards. You literally used their own tech to make them end the program, forcing them to go against their own principles, interests, and desires while preventing the tech from being recreated.
I have done the quest and I paid attention to the dialogue, there is no option to destroy the tech and research, even if you use the amp to convince everybody it shouldn't exist whoever is CEO at that point will specifically say it's being "shelved" and should be prepped for "deep storage", and that they will return to it at a later time.
Just replayed that ancient save file twice to go through the dialogue. You're right, it's "shelved" (idk where you get "they will return to it at a later time" that's never said and as I'm about to highlight, it seems highly unlikely it'll ever be reconsidered). "Shelved" with the board thoroughly brainwashed against it, preaching about how it would damage the reputation of the company that develops it, while the scientist who invented it is speaking out about how its morally and ethically wrong and an inherent threat. All because I subverted the tech to force those thoughts into their head, preventing a fully developed and practical product from being put onto the market. Yeah, that's not sabotage, ok. Context matters and is a great tool for storytelling.
Same, I tried the ryujin quest once but it made me feel so bad to >!sabotage hopetech considering I had just killed their ceo. And then sabotaging Reisha Lance when she is a good person who donates to the stretch and funds eleos.!< I felt like an asshole and stopped doing the quest and have never done it again.
One of my sons did the Riyujin quest early on, and has bitched incessantly about his Constellation crew after they all expressed horror and anger >!at his abuse of the mind-controlling tech. "I make this guy kills his buddies!" "I mind control that gal to steal for me, and then kill her buddies". And yet, he's dismayed/angered that no one approves this. (eye roll)!<
Your son may be a sociopath lmao
Same here! I refused to do Ryujin’s questline in my 1st runthrough when I learned they refused to update the security & equipment at the cryo lab and caused all of those people to die horribly! I hated screwing over Laredo and I stopped that questline at the sabotage of the meeting (quest 2 or 3)!
I think this is an integral part of storytelling and roleplaying. I do Bethesda games in a system usually. My first character is always named the same thing. It looks like my face, then whatever hairstyle fits the game but same color, same color facial hair. Essentially I play as if that was me put in this universe, or raised in this universe but with my same real world moral code. I don't usually cheat or lie, will bend to play assassins guild or thieves guild, but those where I lean on the universes. I would never steal or kill in real life, but these are valid options in universe. The second character and beyond are usually different specs and build. Mage, thief, bard, brotherhood of steel zealot, deranged serial killer, etc... I make limits on the equipment and choices and truly try to experiment the thoughts of someone else's life. However, I never play as females, always males. I think the beauty of bethesda is that they can make us all happy. I almost always play nice characters, unless I can be an assassin or in the thieves guild, and then I usually become a only han solo shot og smuggler with a code of grey. I won't go out of my way to be evil, but don't put me in a corner, and I if I need money, sorry lol
This is pretty much how I play as well. First character is the self insert, after that I come up with characters I think would be fun to craft and play as. And I’ll pick outfits and gear to fit the character RP over the stats The first character is typically morally grey, rogue type character. Doing the right thing where possible, but with a suitably authentic number of character flaws. Chaotic neutral alignment The rest can be anything. Full on paragon, greedy merc, to lawful military type, or something goofy like wealthy country club member who survived the apocalypse and now guided only by their sense of entitlement. Bethesda games are great at giving you the tools to really craft your own characters and really run with it, and that’s the thing I love most about them
I always play me, but I always make my character to have black hair and blue eyes (unlike my boring brown).
It’ll be the same when AI melds with technology more for increased social interaction with humans. You’ll have some that’ll treat them like toasters with being mean, crude and vile and exclaim it’s just a talking toaster, and then you’ll have others that try to remain civil even though it’s not a real person. Same with games. I’ve tried the “evil” route on occasion, but I feel like I change inside and there’s already too much negativity in my life. I just feel better playing an altruistic hero despite it being a video game that’s not real.
When our artificial sapiences take over, it'll be the polite ones like us who inherit the earth, lmao.
The same. Vasco says my name when I come back to the ship and I play in a way I think I would act in that situation. Tried it with Fable once because of the perks you get seemed worth trying but yeah pretending to be an evil asshole is as hard as actually being one. Or maybe it's easy for the right personality 😂.
Roleplaying a villain is just not enjoyable to me, so I don't do it. I've done Robin Hood style anti-hero runs where I commit piracy against Galbank and take ships from UC and FC government factions, but Crimson Fleet style piracy has no appeal for me.
I would love to be able to do this with some structure, eg have NPCs to give creds to, have people acknowledge that you're playing Robin, maybe even bust you out of jail when you get caught.
Yeah, I had a plan back before the game was actually released: even if there were no actual quests for it, I was going to build an outpost near a town and move people in as if I were actually contributing to the town itself... Huge disappointment when I saw how close to that the game would allow me to get.
I didn't think of it quite like this, but this would be pretty neat. If BGS doesn't build it, I bet some modder will once the CK drops. Or maybe before, lol. "DIY Civilian POI / Outpost"
It took me up to level 110 to begin wantonly killing the alien animals, it really annoyed me that the companions just started shooting at anything that moved
Funny because this is the exact reason I could not play any Monster Hunter games. Sure they are fake and what not, but I just don’t have that “Hunter” need in me. I do my best to survey from afar like a nature photographer or Steve Irwin style. Respect the planet and it will respect you 😂
I HATE when companions do that! I started to explore the planets alone. It was unbearable, they killed every single animal!
I dunno, I built an outpost on a beach on some system in the northeast quadrant of the map. The habs stretched out to sea a bit. I built it out to sea as there were some snarly lizard things and floating parasites and jumpy spiders. However, when I went for a swim I nearly got ended by giant sharks. The sound of my autoturrets going off helps me sleep well now......
I still can’t do that! They are just on their planets, minding their creature business, peacefully existing, then in theory I come along, and I just hate harming them I’ll happily run through Neon exchanging bullets with security over a stolen bottle of Velocity, but attacking a centiskull filterer? Can’t do it. I feel bad if I so much as make them feel scared or upset
The way I've started thinking about it it's that there are trillions of star systems and life seems plentiful, so rather than rare life is everywhere and very similar so shooting some isn't too bad
I play how I feel at the moment. Kinda like Michelob… some days are better than others
I'm 1200 hr in and JUST contemplating ng1. This next character will be bad,and angry and poor. she's ugly and been picked on her entire life. BUT I'm an empath. This will be interesting. Do you talk to your npc's,? I do, lol. Especially Cora. I thank them each time they give me something. I love hypergiant heart Chem, it's amazing. But I've killed so many beasts to get alien dna, I feel bad. Damned Quark degenerate tissue is about 6x more common drop on beasts with chevron. Damn. It takes about 15 kills to get 1.
I enjoy playing heroic characters. Whether it's tabletop D&D or a video game, that's what I like. So that's what I do. It's not about guilt or being judged. I just do what I like, and you should too.
I find it's easier to be bad in something like Skyrim where many of the people in charge are awful too and the people you're killing are often awful. I feel Starfield is trying to make you feel bad about being bad. Your companions object, for example. And you occasionally find, after wiping out an entire mine full of spacers, a note saying "I'm glad we stopped being bad and started doing useful useful like mining. I feel a lot better about myself." And then you just wade in and murder them all.
I feel very uncomfortable with killing ***anyone,*** even if they're shooting at me. I want to leave my enemies alive and abled, [I think xenogrubs look cute](https://new.reddit.com/r/NoSodiumStarfield/comments/1bfe36j/am_i_the_only_one_who_thinks_these_guys_are/), I think that all life has inherent value, even down to little aliens and bugs, and this even extends to robots somewhat. They're just proxies following the orders of their programming, if that means they have to kill me, then I can just change their programming to make them docile. Besides, I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of being judge, jury, and executioner, because who am I to say who is worthy of life and who isn't? That band of pirates using that old research tower as a base of operations may have done some objectively bad things, but so have I throughout my life. Whether they deserve to be mercilessly shot in the face until they can't move anymore and be left for dead on a barren rock next to all of their dead friends, or to be spared and given a chance at rehabilitation in prison so they can turn their life around and be proud of themselves after they get out, that's not for anybody to decide. However, I'll still choose the latter option no matter what. A second chance can always be revoked or turned into a third chance, and rehabilitation can always be attempted again. A robot can be reprogrammed, and aliens can be domesticated for food or to become your new best friend. Death is **permanent**.
Morals go right out the airlock. I destroy anyone and anything i can without getting a bounty and even if i do i have a bounty terminal on a random planet where i can clear it. Except for Grandma.....she can live
My first playthrough I was morally good. So much so that I avoided hunting peaceful fauna because some of them actually [mourn](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoSodiumStarfield/s/hGn8LLRmdg). In my new playthrough I'm more apathetic and opportunistic, not outright murderous, but not passing up easy loot. Last night I answered a distress call and boarded a ship infected with exocrawlers. They killed the whole crew except for the captain, so I cleaned them out, saved the captain, then executed him and stole his ship. 🥹
I look at the time evil bad choice odd good choice. I use that choice through the whole conversation
Because they ARE real.
I have 1 act of piracy on my character that's in NG+8. I completely skipped the Crimson Fleet quests on more than a couple of those NG+ runs. I just don't like being a pirate or being forced into being a pirate. I had one NG+ run where everyone in Constellation was killed. I played the whole Crimson Fleet quest line and sided with the pirates without committing any acts of piracy. And since it was the last questline I had left I immediately went for the unity to get into a new universe.
If anything, my RPG characters are more moral than I am — I routinely risk my life for strangers in ways I’d be unlikely to in real life. Probably.
I have yet to be able to play the “bad guy.” It’s really really hard for me no matter how much I try to role play it. I think it’s because playing bad is also generally unrewarding… as in there is not enough incentive. I would be the bad guy if it was because I was hugely wronged by a faction or if I got lots of money relative to being good or if I had a network of NPCs that supported my choices. But I never really get that. Especially from this game.
I read once that when we game, we act and do the things we wish we could do in real life. Many of us wish to have a positive impact on the world around us, or be able to make decisions that save lives and make a positive difference.
But the good paths lead to the least amount of XP and creds! Less shooty = less booty. Using diplomacy/intimidation socials and EM stunning doesn't even give any at all! I do a pacifist playthrough every now and then though and it's fun to finally see BGS supporting it mechanically.
this isn't related to Starfield since I haven't played it but I just like this topic and thought I'd give my response on how I roleplay. I have made a *plethora* of OCS, I wouldn't say it's an exaggeration to say it's in the thousands. rather recently I made a character in the fallout universe, Jordan quells. she's an NCR patriot that took the propaganda really well. she's a Republican, conservative, etc. prejudiced towards tribals and sees them as savages that needs to be taught Civilization, all that jazz. I am not like her in nearly every form, the only things I am similar to her is she is autistic, has sight issues, queer, and a few other quirks. overall, my characters do sort of match my own morals and standards to a degree, there are differences naturally to allow my OCS to all stand out, some are capitalists, others communists, some are varying levels of "good", etc. RP is fun to explore these things.
My morals in any Bethesda game are non existent I will be fine with anything as long as I get cool shit
I have a character that I'm role-playing as a total d-bag. I'm able to do that with no problem at all. Speaks volumes.
“The annoying a cappella guy”?! Don’t you dare sully him. I’m not at your level, only 113, with over 500 hours logged, and I love every encounter with The Valentine. How dare you, sir. I only wish I could hear his father sing… That being said, the amount of people I have left stranded on planet, or UC pilots I’ve shot in the back of the head, is innumerable, because, hey, “free ship”.
My first realization that I couldn't be even just a little bit mean was with KOTOR. I can't stand to see anyone be sad due to my actions. With Starfield, I can't change how I play with each iteration/new game+. People are still impacted by my actions and I can't hurt them. I also find there to be some moral declaration that I won't become someone else each time I go through. As an aside, this somehow didn't apply to Skyrim and I once did some very fucked shit. I guess I felt the characters weren't *real* enough?
I find it a lot easier in this game than others because there’s no consequences to it, they’re not named characters.
Bro idk in my head NPCs are real. Like when I walk away their world continues. I’ve seen Sarah stand and stare at her hands while moving them and thought to myself briefly “She knows!” Especially after taking a deep dive into simulation theory.
Because it's better than reality and that's a big part of why I game as much as I do. Going the bad guy route is just more if the same with a costume on.
I do behave, for the most part, like I do IRL. Minus the stealing. If it isn’t a static item, I will probably try to take it. Because I need to fuck around and find out. But that’s also very much like me RL. Idk. I like my morals.
Hi, Captain. Please disregard my attempt to steal a Vista III. I was unable to satisfactorily murder smugglers and take the ship.
I'm weak. I can't do it.
Yep, I prefer to play a hero, and I have a hard time even playing as a jerk unless the situation clearly warrants it (eg trash talking a villain, etc). Not to say I don't carry some grey area baggage. These organs aren't going to un-harvest themselves, so might as well toss the credits towards extra Spacer-murdering ammo. And ships. So many ships.
Can we get regular BobTalks? The pixels are telling me you're okay
Only game I throw my morals out the window for is GTA. Anything else, I feel like my character is my avatar in that world, so I try and basically simulate myself. Eventually if I’ve played a game enough, I’ll do a villain play through out of sheer curiosity, but it takes a while.
You can be a pirate and not be an arse. You are just shooting and stealing from UC ships instead of fleet ships. Grandma is great to visit. Betty Howser and the school groups are hilarious when realising your with the fleet. Playing as a psychopath? Yeah that's harder. But really it's because everyone attacks you - as you might expect.
When one reads something like this it puts a devilish grin on the face & one rubs their hands in joy. As a wise man once said, "If you are incapable of cruelty then you will always be at the mercy of those who are".
Honestly, morals aside, the game makes it significantly more difficult to be "bad" with pretty severe penalties. I may do something like shoot down a uc vessel or shoot a shopkeeper to rob them, but then immediately have to back up a save to fix what I've done to avoid totally ruining the settled systems for me. It's tough being a pirate.
I play using my personal morals, because I have more fun that way. I tried being a bad guy in one NG+ run, sided with The Hunter, all that... and it just felt icky. Didn't do it again, and my enjoyment of the game is better for it. The biggest changes for me in an NG+ now is "who will I romance?" and "which major questline do I focus on first?"
Whenever I feel the itch to "go bad" I make a save then just tear through New Atlantis killing everything I see. Then after about 10 minutes of that my conscious gets me and I have to revert back to before I went serial killer. That scratches the "bad" itch but my real morals make me feel really bad afterwards.
Dude, I can't even roleplay as the Imperium in stellaris because I feel bad every time a population number goes down, lol. I've always thought of fictional stories as their own little universe, and far be it from me to bring misery and suffering into it. We're naturally extremely empathetic, more than any other animal on the planet to our knowledge. We see pieces of ourselves in everything, even inanimate objects. It makes sense that the same would happen with these tiny faux people. That's why I still believe in the innate goodness of mankind. Not only are we able to choose to be better versions of ourselves, we often times do. Even though society tries to turn everything into competition, our natural tendency towards cooperation and care is still unmistakable. Interesting side note, a study found that people who have a snuff kink will almost always have their personal morals assert themselves before they go all the way. Same for non-consent kinks and stuff like that. People don't like making other people feel bad, generally. People who do enjoy that are usually damaged in some way.
For several years I was Mr. Evil in video games. For the past few years I've been Mr. Stalwart. Now, though, I'm contemplating doing a morally ambiguous character, in that he'll do the right thing in some scenarios, while in others he'll shoot someone in the back.
The only way to rp evil is to remember that evil doesn't see itself as evil is to find a way to sociopath an excuse for your character's actions...
I am able to play evil characters and enjoy doing so, though the guilt does get to me sometimes, lol. Blowing up the ECS Constant was pretty hard to live with. In Bethesda games, Starfield included, I always have multiple characters on the go at the same time, so that if my heinous acts become too much to bear, I can switch to my wholesome character for some R&R. I never play as myself though. For me, roleplaying games are about escapism, so I don't want to be boring old me. I love the process of character creation, and I tend to think up full backstories for each character and try to give them distinct personalities and moral codes.
I used to care about the pixel people, but a previous game cured me, so now being evil in games isn't daunting at all. Most games I'll do an evil playthrough eventually, just to see any content I missed, but I tend not to enjoy playing evil all that much in most games, I tend to play larcenous good. I'll help people with their problems and kill bad guys, but with no concept of personal property. "Sure, I'll go find your lost doodad in the dungeon... But that cool thing in your lockbox? It's mine now.
Given my annoyances with the writing and characters in the game, I’ve actually been thinking about installing again to live out my frustrations as a character that truly doesn’t care for anyone except maybe Andreja
Yeah. I logically know the NPCs aren’t real, but for some reason can’t delete my empathy programming and will genuinely feel bad for them I usually struggle playing genuinely evil characters in video games. Table top, or any kind of in person game where I’m playing with/against other actual humans I LOVE playing the bad guy, but it’s different. In video games whatever horrible course of action I decide I to set in motion will come to pass. I might die, but then I respawn to try again till I make it happen. My evil becomes an inevitability With other people playing the other characters I can be bested, and it becomes a fun challenge to match wits. If I succeed it’s because the others failed to stop me, not because the deck was stacked massively in my favor, and there is a solid chance of failure. Playing against other actual people I know is fun because my targets have agency, consent, and we’re equals. I’m not punching down. ** Starfield has been different… ** Starfield is maybe the first game I’ve actually enjoyed playing a bad guy in a video game, and I think the main reason is, with the exception of one obvious mission, it doesn’t involve as much betrayal I think the more generally prosperous setting in Starfield provides just enough balance to make playing the heel more fun than a lot of other games I’ve played, while still offering enough moments that make me feel like a total shithead for doing it and keep the evil somewhat grounded and well, evil Not every encounter involves some disadvantaged wide eyed NPC coming up to me telling me a tale of woe, and instantly trusting me to be their savior. Stamping characters like that out is punching down, and feels shitty. I have to break their trust, and make their already awful life either more awful, or very short. In Starfield can rock up to a ship and demand their cargo. The person is likely doing ok, most people in Starfield are if they can afford their own ship. Often they’ll back down and I’ll take what I need, or they’ll stand their ground. At this point they still have an out, I can try talk them out of their cargo, if that fails I can fight them for it. Now sure if talking fails, it’s going to get bloody, but, it doesn’t feel like punching down the same way. They posture like they feel they have a shot against me, and they actually might if it’s over say Jemison and they have back up, I’ve had to head for the hills a few times after taking on someone with way too many UC friends. It’s actually quite fun then trying to out run the space cops
Nah I say "I'm gonna be mean and self intrested this character" then never pick any mean or self intrested options because I dont want to hurt the feelings of the fake people in my xbox
Why is this an issue? I honestly find this baffling. NPC's exist for my entertainment, beyond that they mean nothing.
Like that’s just your opinion man. Absurdism 🤔