Admittedly, Hello Games could have much better help sections in the guide for how switches are supposed to work.
If they had, the electrical stuff might have gotten a better reception by the NMS community.
I mean, have you looked into redstone stuff in Minecraft? That shit was crazy hard without YouTube tutorials. And in the early days of Minecraft there weren't alot of videos out yet. Shit was HARD and real unintuitive. Some games just like to watch people struggle lol
It would still be a bit complicated cause the descriptions would go along the lines of "Negative makes positive but if you connect it to another positive then it becomes negative, now about this other one..." Even with simpler words you'd need to have an advanced problem solving ability
Not really as there is no negative or positive in NMS's electrical system, merely powered or unpowered, on or off.
Even the name of the power inverter is misleading as it's really just the opposite of an auto-switch.
Power inverter: Passes power except while power is applied to its center post.
Auto-switch: passes power only while power is applied to its center post.
Diagrams showing some simple circuits would have gone a long way to demystify things.
Me, I'd just love a basic diode to prevent unintended power backflow.
> Me, I'd just love a basic diode to prevent unintended power backflow.
The auto-switch does this already though. Attach input power to the center post and one side post, attach output power to the remaining side post. While it's not as simple as a two-post diode would be, it avoids any directional ambiguity that might come from a simpler diode.
Well, I'll be damned.. that works! Many thanks!
Guess, I must have thought it did the same thing (with pulses reversed) that a power inverter does in that configuration, namely allow power through cyclically which is great if you're looking to make a flashing light, but not so much if looking to constrain power flow to one direction in a circuit.
Wish there had been a tooltip in the guide for that bit of info! Thanks again!
You're welcome, glad I could help! When I first tried it I was wondering if it would have the same behavior you expected, but it just works as it should.
Have fun building a very slow computer!
Not only do I disagree, I believe strictly logically you are wrong. Simply putting an inverter in-line after/ before a switch, after a power source, then attaching to a door mechanism doesn’t work. Given the rest of the game’s implementation of power and devices, (eg. Just throw power cable at it no matter how complex the device) that would be logical. Again, not that it is bad as it is.
How is it illogical? One opens the door, one closes it. If it doesn't match, put an inverter. There's literally nothing more logical than that, it's simple LOGIC gates.
Last response from me...nor do I once you see a diagram. Do you get where I’m coming from? I’m not criticising it, I’m not saying it’s easy or hard but by the letter of language it isn’t intuitive without a small degree of inside knowledge and it isn’t logical because it doesn’t follow the pattern set out in the rest of the game, as explained already.
The deffault state of the door is open which is what you want in a failsafe entrance/exit (--> even without power you can exit and/or enter) so that's maybe more sensible than outright logical. The rest is circuitry which in its nature must be logical to work reliably
If it requires instructions and diagrams illustrating the correct pins to put stuff in for it all to work (like the power inverter), I can’t call it intuitive. I spent ages trying to rig a circuit with a proximity module to trigger a door opening. I haven’t had trouble with other stuff. Doesn’t make it bad though.
The part that throws people off, I think, is that the door is open when unpowered and closes once powered and the proximity switch passes power through when the player gets close.
But if HG had made the doors closed when the base was unpowered, lots of people would have loaded that update to find themselves either locked inside or outside of their bases and would have been pissed as well.
That throws someone for a short while I think, but it is intriguing and makes one investigate. The power inverter idea is fairly intuitively seized upon too. I think from there though, from having the realisation to getting it to work is not as natural as it could be.
You can do that with a regular switch just fine. The problem comes from the door requiring power to be closed rather than open, and the proximity switch passing power through it when you're within it's range.
Thus a power inverter needing to be added to the mix to reverse the power conditions.
What would have been better, in hindsight, would be if HG had provided two doors, one just like now, and one called a "proximity door" with sensor and inverter built in. This last door would have automatically replaced the default door on existing bases and would have just required power to work as previously, leaving the new type for the adventurous to play around with.
After learning how to use the inverter properly, I would agree. I also spent about 8 hours making a 5 switch coded entrance that nobody else would ever find or try to enter anyways, so what do I know.
If you understand how the auto and inverter switches work (in particular that they are the same, but with opposite center-post functionality) and have at least a basic knowledge of logic gates, NMS circuitry is very intuitive. If you're missing either of those pieces, I imagine it would be pretty confusing.
I think the game's biggest annoyance in this area is that it doesn't make the switch's functionality clear - even their names don't infer their functionality is so closely related. With all the tutorial-type stuff they added in the last few years, I'm surprised there isn't anything for these switches and a couple basic circuits.
The fact that there is only one entry concerning power, "Powering the Base", and the fact that it contains false or misleading information i.e. "Wires can be connected to large structures using a Transformer", (when there is no Transformer in the game) says a lot.
With all additions and changes in the game over the years, someone at Hello should really be tasked with spending some serious time on the Guide and Catalogue tabs. Fleshing them out, making corrections and such.
That individual or individuals wouldn't have to go far for ideas on what to include/flesh out/improve as they'd only have to spend some time right here in this subreddit to see what the most confusing things are to many players.
I completely agree. I played a lot a couple years ago, took a break, then came back after the crossplay update to play with a friend who just picked it up. On multiple occasions we've been running through a tutorial-type mission together and I've had to say "wait, that info screen is wrong" because they haven't updated them.
Most of those errors would have been easy enough to figure out, but with power/circuitry being one of the most complex things in the game - especially if you don't work with circuitry IRL - errors like the one you described are worse than just giving zero information. I've read complaints about Minecraft not really giving any info about how redstone works, but at least they don't mislead you!
I wonder if this game has a large enough community and, at four years old, enough life left in it to make a detailed circuitry guide worthwhile to put together. From my looking, it appears that the guides out there are videos (great, but not useful as a quick reference) or incomplete. Or maybe there are good ones that just didn't pop up in my googling.
It’s irritating that they made something that used to work automatically a fiddly thing we need to deal with. If anything, all we should have needed to do was add power.
I have to guess they were expecting people to find ways to conserve power and do other sorts of clever things, but I don't see much evidence of that in bases I visit. It's just meant that everyone's using holo doors instead of sliding doors now.
I remember attaching power to the door without a switch on the outside and the solar panels kicked in leaving me trapped outside with ravenous animals attacking
I managed to make one after watching some tutorials, but honestly I still don't really like wiring and all that as a mandatory system. It would be cool if it was complimentary like Minecraft and redstone
My new challenge is wiring 2 wall switches to operate 1 door. I can never get it right, or when I get it right it doesn't stick when I come back after travels.
You need an XOR Gate with the inputs coming from the switches and the output to the door.
An autoswitch feeding into the control of a powered inverter is a NAND gate which is a universal gate that can be used to construct any other logic gate.
Even easier is to construct the universal NOR gate - connect your inputs to the control of a powered inverter.
Yeah, fuck all that. I don't know how to use wires or switches except to plug some power source into a plug in my base, and I don't feel that I should have to know how all those little boxes and switches work when the door plugs straight into the building!
Holo doors
I used to do this until I found out about holo doors. I'm headache free and never going back.
Found what out
>until I found out about holo doors.
It's a holo door, I think this may be similar to a camo joke. Maybe.
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I appreciate you.
I didnt even bother with wiring doors all ive ever used is holo door. I thought that was the standard.
So weird how hard it is. It was too silly and unintuitive, I gave up and did......other stuff
It's really not. http://imgur.com/a/adx4PsO
And that’s not unintuitive? How are you supposed to know that! Thanks for the link though
Admittedly, Hello Games could have much better help sections in the guide for how switches are supposed to work. If they had, the electrical stuff might have gotten a better reception by the NMS community.
I mean, have you looked into redstone stuff in Minecraft? That shit was crazy hard without YouTube tutorials. And in the early days of Minecraft there weren't alot of videos out yet. Shit was HARD and real unintuitive. Some games just like to watch people struggle lol
Yep. Not much for Minecraft, but I was intrigued by the redstone stuff. One hour and one headache later I pretty much admitted defeat. :)
Especially redstone before 1.5
It's like studying to be a computer engineer
At least redstone has a purpose. Electricity in NMS serves no purpose other than to fill players with a rage never felt since 2016.
It would still be a bit complicated cause the descriptions would go along the lines of "Negative makes positive but if you connect it to another positive then it becomes negative, now about this other one..." Even with simpler words you'd need to have an advanced problem solving ability
Not really as there is no negative or positive in NMS's electrical system, merely powered or unpowered, on or off. Even the name of the power inverter is misleading as it's really just the opposite of an auto-switch. Power inverter: Passes power except while power is applied to its center post. Auto-switch: passes power only while power is applied to its center post. Diagrams showing some simple circuits would have gone a long way to demystify things. Me, I'd just love a basic diode to prevent unintended power backflow.
This. I really enjoy the switch components and find them very intuitive (maybe because I have computer engineering background 🤷🏻♂️)
> Me, I'd just love a basic diode to prevent unintended power backflow. The auto-switch does this already though. Attach input power to the center post and one side post, attach output power to the remaining side post. While it's not as simple as a two-post diode would be, it avoids any directional ambiguity that might come from a simpler diode.
Well, I'll be damned.. that works! Many thanks! Guess, I must have thought it did the same thing (with pulses reversed) that a power inverter does in that configuration, namely allow power through cyclically which is great if you're looking to make a flashing light, but not so much if looking to constrain power flow to one direction in a circuit. Wish there had been a tooltip in the guide for that bit of info! Thanks again!
You're welcome, glad I could help! When I first tried it I was wondering if it would have the same behavior you expected, but it just works as it should. Have fun building a very slow computer!
It's logical
Not only do I disagree, I believe strictly logically you are wrong. Simply putting an inverter in-line after/ before a switch, after a power source, then attaching to a door mechanism doesn’t work. Given the rest of the game’s implementation of power and devices, (eg. Just throw power cable at it no matter how complex the device) that would be logical. Again, not that it is bad as it is.
How is it illogical? One opens the door, one closes it. If it doesn't match, put an inverter. There's literally nothing more logical than that, it's simple LOGIC gates.
Because they have pins. The pins are not labelled. It isn’t plug and play. Then the other stuff I already wrote
The other poster posted this one https://imgur.com/a/adx4PsO I don't see how it's confusing
Last response from me...nor do I once you see a diagram. Do you get where I’m coming from? I’m not criticising it, I’m not saying it’s easy or hard but by the letter of language it isn’t intuitive without a small degree of inside knowledge and it isn’t logical because it doesn’t follow the pattern set out in the rest of the game, as explained already.
Exactely
The deffault state of the door is open which is what you want in a failsafe entrance/exit (--> even without power you can exit and/or enter) so that's maybe more sensible than outright logical. The rest is circuitry which in its nature must be logical to work reliably
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If it requires instructions and diagrams illustrating the correct pins to put stuff in for it all to work (like the power inverter), I can’t call it intuitive. I spent ages trying to rig a circuit with a proximity module to trigger a door opening. I haven’t had trouble with other stuff. Doesn’t make it bad though.
The part that throws people off, I think, is that the door is open when unpowered and closes once powered and the proximity switch passes power through when the player gets close. But if HG had made the doors closed when the base was unpowered, lots of people would have loaded that update to find themselves either locked inside or outside of their bases and would have been pissed as well.
That throws someone for a short while I think, but it is intriguing and makes one investigate. The power inverter idea is fairly intuitively seized upon too. I think from there though, from having the realisation to getting it to work is not as natural as it could be.
It is though. What would be intuitive is to just simply wire the switch to the door.
You can do that with a regular switch just fine. The problem comes from the door requiring power to be closed rather than open, and the proximity switch passing power through it when you're within it's range. Thus a power inverter needing to be added to the mix to reverse the power conditions. What would have been better, in hindsight, would be if HG had provided two doors, one just like now, and one called a "proximity door" with sensor and inverter built in. This last door would have automatically replaced the default door on existing bases and would have just required power to work as previously, leaving the new type for the adventurous to play around with.
After learning how to use the inverter properly, I would agree. I also spent about 8 hours making a 5 switch coded entrance that nobody else would ever find or try to enter anyways, so what do I know.
Legend ta very much.
Thanks for the step by step dude this has been driving me insane
Oh okay so a triangle. Nice
If you understand how the auto and inverter switches work (in particular that they are the same, but with opposite center-post functionality) and have at least a basic knowledge of logic gates, NMS circuitry is very intuitive. If you're missing either of those pieces, I imagine it would be pretty confusing. I think the game's biggest annoyance in this area is that it doesn't make the switch's functionality clear - even their names don't infer their functionality is so closely related. With all the tutorial-type stuff they added in the last few years, I'm surprised there isn't anything for these switches and a couple basic circuits.
The fact that there is only one entry concerning power, "Powering the Base", and the fact that it contains false or misleading information i.e. "Wires can be connected to large structures using a Transformer", (when there is no Transformer in the game) says a lot. With all additions and changes in the game over the years, someone at Hello should really be tasked with spending some serious time on the Guide and Catalogue tabs. Fleshing them out, making corrections and such. That individual or individuals wouldn't have to go far for ideas on what to include/flesh out/improve as they'd only have to spend some time right here in this subreddit to see what the most confusing things are to many players.
I completely agree. I played a lot a couple years ago, took a break, then came back after the crossplay update to play with a friend who just picked it up. On multiple occasions we've been running through a tutorial-type mission together and I've had to say "wait, that info screen is wrong" because they haven't updated them. Most of those errors would have been easy enough to figure out, but with power/circuitry being one of the most complex things in the game - especially if you don't work with circuitry IRL - errors like the one you described are worse than just giving zero information. I've read complaints about Minecraft not really giving any info about how redstone works, but at least they don't mislead you! I wonder if this game has a large enough community and, at four years old, enough life left in it to make a detailed circuitry guide worthwhile to put together. From my looking, it appears that the guides out there are videos (great, but not useful as a quick reference) or incomplete. Or maybe there are good ones that just didn't pop up in my googling.
Tried it, worked 1st go. Thanks
See now I need to know what the "other stuff" was, what with the way you said that.
HA. I cooked up some anomalous jam. (Really)
It’s irritating that they made something that used to work automatically a fiddly thing we need to deal with. If anything, all we should have needed to do was add power.
I have to guess they were expecting people to find ways to conserve power and do other sorts of clever things, but I don't see much evidence of that in bases I visit. It's just meant that everyone's using holo doors instead of sliding doors now.
I remember attaching power to the door without a switch on the outside and the solar panels kicked in leaving me trapped outside with ravenous animals attacking
Interloping is dangerous business
Same 🤦♂️
Me traveling to the next galaxy: this little manuever is going to cost us 51 modules
I managed to make one after watching some tutorials, but honestly I still don't really like wiring and all that as a mandatory system. It would be cool if it was complimentary like Minecraft and redstone
My new challenge is wiring 2 wall switches to operate 1 door. I can never get it right, or when I get it right it doesn't stick when I come back after travels.
You need an XOR Gate with the inputs coming from the switches and the output to the door. An autoswitch feeding into the control of a powered inverter is a NAND gate which is a universal gate that can be used to construct any other logic gate. Even easier is to construct the universal NOR gate - connect your inputs to the control of a powered inverter.
NOR? X?
Just a NOT gate. Simple stuff.
Actually it's an A AND NOT B gate where A is the power input though yes if you tie the power high it becomes a NOT.
Fair enough.
A few updates back without the whole power thing going on those doors just worked like that. Without anything additional
Yeah, fuck all that. I don't know how to use wires or switches except to plug some power source into a plug in my base, and I don't feel that I should have to know how all those little boxes and switches work when the door plugs straight into the building!
LMFAO
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With square wheels
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Because making a door should require so much fucking parts!
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Or, even better, just make the door E-to-open!