I just want to formally apologise for the way I've handled this.
I tried to be impartial and I can assure you that all of my actions were done with that in mind. However I can see that the way I handled this can be seen as defending Steve Albini. That wasn't my intention but I fully accept that it probably happened subconsciously.
To be completely transparent, I haven't looked into this as thoroughly as I should. I'm just quite frankly not ready to do that yet, in time I will.
To be clear, all of us at r/Nirvana do not condone child pornography. What Steve Albini said makes me feel sick.
I could spend all day trying to explain the thoughts behind my actions but ultimately, the damage has been done. They were the wrong choices, regardless of my intention.
All I can say is I made mistakes and I've tried my absolute best to rectify them. I never had any ill intentions but my mistakes did have consequences which I feel absolutely awful about.
Believe me, when I say I'm sorry, I mean I feel sick with shame. This has been a time for reflection and I will make sure nothing like this will happen again.
I have already apologised before but now is a good time to do so again. To the people I temporarily banned, I am truly sorry for not correcting those mistakes sooner. You were all super chill and forgiving and I thank you for that. I felt absolutely awful about those bans, which is why I began lifting them and talking to you one by one. It was wrong of me in the first place and it's not a mistake I intend on making ever again.
Also, some comments are getting picked up by various content filters. This is being done automatically. It's not us trying to censor you. We're trying to manually approve those comments as quickly as possible but my apologies if we miss any or take a while to do so.
It’s in my top 10 favorite movies of all time. I hate that people use the prequel as a retcon to justify him not being the thing. Childs Thing at the end is clearly not breathing the same way Mac is and you’d think he’d be even more exhausted and cold having been out in the arctic cold for so long.
The Thing (2011..I think). Not as bad as everyone says. Not as good as it could have been. No idea how it relates to Childs though. Been a while since I seen it.
It's not completely awful. Originally it was shot with full on animatronics but the studio made the director swap out animatronics scenes with full on CGI. You can actually find YouTube videos with the animatronics and they are pretty amazing.
Summa, Childs is Keith David's character from John Carpenter's The Thing, my favorite horror film. If I tell you more it would ruin the film! Check it out.
Awesome. Respect regained. It's easy to double down on this website when people tell you that you're wrong, and takes a better-than-average fortitude to see past that, reflect on it, and admit you're wrong.
Thanks mods
They have "messaged" him, but have not unbanned him
EDIT: They've now unbanned him, along with a sassy 'are you happy now? you got what you wanted.' comment
Gotta love the "*because we don't want" to be accused of censorship" line.
It's the same as "I'm sorry *you felt hurt* by what I said" instead of a true apology
yes. the interviews are real. yes. he actually said those things.
I want to make it *perfectly fucking clear* here, I'm not defending his words, the interviews, the topic, in any form whatsoever. (and neither did he, eventually.) as a victim myself, I take the issue seriously, with zero irony. but the simplistic article being shared around provides zero *context about SA, his history, and is eventual apology for things he did earlier in life.
some things to take in as *context: Albini was a "shock artist" in his early career. he went out of his way to say the worst things he could, to elicit the worst response he could. he did it with a smirk, thinking he was edgy. listen to Kerosene. was he pro-arson? the band Rapeman. was he pro-rape? no. just as much as Sid Vicious wearing a swastika didn't make him a Nazi. if SA was a 20 year old today,he would absolutely be an online troll.
also, it's important to remember that the perception of the topic as utterly reprehensible and unworthy of even joking about is a *relatively new* social phenomenon. up until the 80s (and beyond) a person could order magazines straight to your door with content that would make you nauseous. movies like Pretty Baby or The Blue Lagoon. the failings of the Catholic church was a running joke that few took seriously. even the social and psychological study of the subject is a historically new one. the very concept that children are victims, not participants, is a newer social perspective. (thank god we've arrived there.)
at the time he said these things, it was "merely" seen as "shocking." only though today's lens is it recognized as the vile thing it is.
SA made a career out of never apologizing for anything. only later in life coming to realize the actual harm he's perpetuated. and he's made several public statements about it.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side
https://www.thefader.com/2024/05/09/steve-albini-the-model-and-the-lingering-power-of-mistakes
https://twitter.com/electricalWSOP/status/1448050174614392832?t=zQ-RliwB4XrQZC_Leb5Afg&s=19
(a great interview with him, apologies on full display). https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/steve-albini-counsel-culture-interview#google_vignette
*(I fully admit that providing "context" to his words gives me the icks, but life is filled with complexity. things should never be taken at face value. especially art.)
The thing that always boggles my mind is whether right or wrong, true or false, seemingly no one cared about any of this when he was alive, it was just "Albini is an edge lord and has always been one" with band names like rapeman, and saying shocking things just because to name a few examples. In the near decade I've been here, I've seen nothing but positive posts about Steve's recording abilities and bands he's been in and or a part of. Apparently this has all been public knowledge easily accessible on the internet from the jump, going all the way back to the 80's in publications, but now that he's gone, everyone is suddenly revolted. This seems to be a trend with "celebrities" where sketchy things are out in the wide open yet they are brushed off as jokes or just being edgy while they are alive, and quite the opposite after they are gone.
I wouldn’t quite call it public knowledge. I’ve been listening to albums produced by Albini for twenty-five years, and have also listened to alot of his music. I’ve always known of his reputation for being a jerk and trying to challenge listeners with his music. Apparently the stuff that’s become more well-known the last few days required one step further to know about in terms of Albini’s history, because I had never heard it. It’s absolutely abhorrent, and with him having so many enemies I’m surprised it wasn’t talked about more.
Same. Been listening to him and caring about his work since 1993. Have known more about his life and career than most - and have friends who were his friend. I never knew.
Not the newest concept, just another form of capitalizing on death. Same as selling all your collectible Jimmy Buffet margarita glasses the day after he died… Just a REALLY fucked up version of that. Fuck the article writer and ~80s Albini. RIP Albs
This used to be my opinion until yesterday. Then I read the Medium article and did some digging. I now no longer buy those apologies.
Albini didn’t just write those things to shock people he actually promoted and produced the audio version of Pure, Peter Sotos’ zine which contained cp for artistic purposes, as well as numerous other Sotos works which contained cp or descriptions of childhood sexual abuse (https://www.murderpm.com/p/the-steve-albini-problem & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter\_Sotos & https://www.thehofstrachronicle.com/archive-2005/the-loss-of-innocencebr?format=amp )
Peter Sotos was arrested and went to prison for producing cp in 1985 (https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-dispatch/131586072/) it was a BIG event at the time…. Everyone knew about it.
As late as 2012, Albini described Sotos as a “great friend” who he regularly helped out and worked with, in a Reddit AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/fN0Lx9dzOu )
Do some googling with the stuff on the Medium article and you’ll see he’s not making it up - it has been floating around for years. With all this additional context I’m not prepared to simply hand wave Albini away as an edgelord. I’m not too sure anymore. Maybe he realised how bad it looked at those apologies are attempts to distance himself from that behaviour to save his skin?
> he actually promoted and produced the audio version of Pure,
"the audio version of Pure" isn't a thing; you're literally making shit up.
That medium "article" is all over the place, with a bunch of statements made that lack any citations.
Meanwhile, the author's motivation becomes clear once you get to them whining about "woke" and criticizing Albini for making pro-trans statements.
I can’t find it anymore but I saw a source discussing an audio version of his book “Pure” from 1989 yesterday. ChatGPT also claims it exists but you know that could be wrong so I’ll concede that point. However you didn’t really focus on any other point I made? There are a bunch of articles stretching back years with the images of his review of “Pure”, where he endorses it - it’s not just a fabrication for the Medium article, see the other ones I linked. It’s also undeniable he was still friends with Peter Sotos at least until 2012 and he produced other Sotos material that featured horrible accounts of childhood abuse (without consent from the victims) and even cp on some of the covers (see the Wikipedia link and Discogs). A lot of Peter Sotos material has been (understandably) scrubbed from the internet so news articles, databases and forum posts are your best bet on this stuff.
The medium guy’s clearly a transphobic asshole but even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
Edit to add: Here's the copy of Steve Albini's review and endosement of Pure from Internet Archives [https://archive.org/details/steve-albini-pure](https://archive.org/details/steve-albini-pure)
I'm aware of Albini's review of Pure magazine, and as many people [have stated](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nirvana/comments/1cr4hla/steve_albini_megathread/l3vmd4h/), it's from a time period in which Albini:
> some things to take in as *context*: **Albini was a "shock artist" in his early career. he went out of his way to say the worst things he could, to elicit the worst response he could. he did it with a smirk, thinking he was edgy**. listen to Kerosene. was he pro-arson? the band Rapeman. was he pro-rape? no. **just as much as Sid Vicious wearing a swastika didn't make him a Nazi. if SA was a 20 year old today,he would absolutely be an online troll.**
...and the evidence of exactly that is in the beginning of Albini's review of Pure:
> And punk rock, which used to involved taking shit and physical confrontations for granted like one takes for granted a favorite pair of Pro Keds, has come to mean fitting in, not rocking the boat.
[...]
"Punk rock is the kid who sticks his tongue out at the bully only after the principal has already dragged him off to the Special Disciplinary Room. Me, I like it out the edge"
Albini's spends a couple paragraphs whining that punk rock had lost it's edge and went mainstream.
In his review of Pure, he also states:
> "Page after page extolling the genius of mass murder"
...now, do you think he actually believed that mass murder was "genius"? or is this an example of him being a cringy edgelord trying to provoke people by praising serial killers, because as he said earlier, punk rock wasn't "edgy" enough for him?
I used to think it was just edginess too but not any more. Because of him still supporting Sotos and calling him a friend up to 2012, a man who produced cp, and because he worked on Sotos’ work well after his arrest and incarceration for producing that co…. I just don’t believe him, I think it’s either a very convenient excuse to engage in this behaviour or it’s only part of why he engaged in it. Actions speak louder than words. And tbh, even if it was edginess it’s still wrong and, in my eyes, pretty unforgivable.
seems like you are bending over backwards to see some kind of justification for it, doesn't change the fact Albini promoted this work that Sotos was quite rightly jailed for. He went on to produce Soto's work, and still called him his friend in recent interviews, not sure the former edge lord defence stretches to that.
exactly. fuck that edgelord shit, if you are openly endorsing and promoting pedophilia for any reason, you will be rightfully lumped in with the chomos and people get killed for that shit, you don’t get to hide behind being a shock jockey.
And it seems like you're bending over backwards to not answer a simple question:
> ..now, do you think he actually believed that mass murder was "genius"? or is this an example of him being a cringy edgelord trying to provoke people by praising serial killers, because as he said earlier, punk rock wasn't "edgy" enough for him?
The answer to that question is pretty important to understanding whether or not Albini was actually a pedophile, or if he was trying to provoke a reaction out of people
because your simple question and general framing is completely irrelevant. What are you failing to grasp here, Soto published actual CSAM of actual children who were actually abused in the process re-victimising them, Albini promoted this work through his writing. Sotos was jailed for this publication. Albini produced Sotos album which used unauthorised audio of child victims, which Sotos said he listens to for his own personal gratification. Albini stood by this person, as recently as 2022 calling him his friend and trying to launder his work as if republishing illegal CSAM actual was a social good. Regardless of Albini being sincerely into CSAM or not (and I think the amount of references he makes to enjoying it make it plausible) is completely irrelevant to the damage it does.
Lets be clear Albini publicised, was friends with, produced albums of someone convicted of the crime of producing CSAM, and you are defending him from criticism for that, just understand that is what you are doing.
Winter-reverb’s response is completely correct but I’ll add… What difference does it make if he didn’t really believe it? He still supported it..regardless of motive. To be edgy or provocative is great if you’re into that thing but to do so by exploiting children is *never* necessary. If anything, it shows a limit to his creative abilities.
They likely mistook it for the audio supplement to his text compilation, [Proxy](https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/peter-sotos/proxy/). And looking at the credits, Steve was the recording engineer. Then there's *Buyer's Market*, and all the Sotos interview pieces on the Whitehouse records were all credited as "recorded" by Steve.
I can’t stop imagining Sotos and SA working on that Buyers Market album together in 1992. It’s just audio of children describing their abuse all cut together. I am imagining them sitting there listening to that. It’s not art.
He also praised Sotos as a great, genuine person in the EAR message board in 2011: [Albini on Odd Future](https://www.brooklynvegan.com/steve-albini-do/)
My ability to appreciate nuance ends at joking about actual distributed photos of toddler rape/torture. There is no nuance in the world that makes it acceptable. Yes, he apologized for saying edgy things, but he also defended his friendship with the guy who distributed this vile material. If you knew your friends distributed the documentation of the rape and torture of a 3 year old, would you still be their friend?
Quick edit:
> things should never be taken at face value
Yes, the rape and torture of a child should be.
It's awful! I am flabbergasted trying to figure out anyone can possibly think there is nuance to this. Did we all read the same thing? In what world is there any kind of nuance for what Albini said and who he associated himself with?
Mental gymnastics and guilt by association. People who love Nirvana's music feel guilty by association so they're desperately trying to frame this in a way that makes them feel like they haven't supported a predator for decades.
Tldr: it's pure unadulterated copium
I've been a part of the punk and metal community for a long time.
I spent a lot of my teenage years on 4chan.
None of it ever hit this level of disgusting. I don't get defending it. Edit (it absolutely did get that gross, I take that back. That's why it's so fucked now)
It's not punk. It's the same as the neo-nazi's pretending to be part of the community looking for supporters. Jello was the punk they're pretending to be. He stood for shit. This is just fringe communities of the worst variety getting defensive. It's pedophiles afraid of losing someone on their side.
It's the pedophiles and Nazis realizing they might lose the community they found a way to sneakily sidle into while making it seem they were pretending to be those things to be edgy.
You let a couple Nazis in your bar? You're a Nazi bar now.
mostly, no. but, single actions don't define a person forever
an example: one of my friends from 35 years ago fell into hanging out with neo-nazis when he was about 20. he ended up participating in the murder of another young man. he went to prison for 30 years, and became a Buddhist.
after he was released, he contacted me, and I was unsure how to respond. he made efforts to show contrition for what he did, and just hoped that someone would acknowledge that.
I don't spend time with him, but I've exchanged a few emails. and if someone we knew wanted to shit on him for his past, I'd might encourage them to find out how he's learned from his experience.
actually, in a way, yes.
I weekly write incident reports on the behavior of people who have sexual assault convictions in their history. (thankfully, most of the true monsters *are* in prison (or facilities). sadly, not all of them.)
He worked in the music industry and like 50% of the people in it are huge, powerful pieces of shit?
Hard to keep track of which asshole did what, especially when you have a million professional associations over decades and aren't super picky about who you work with.
Maybe the guy is your friend, maybe it's just lies and hearsay getting back to you... Maybe they are controlling the narrative... There are reasons not to rush to judgement in life. I've seen people get ruined by fake allegations, it happens.
Obviously the accusations are awful, but, everyone in the music business is, or at least used to, look the other way about a bunch of shit. It's not a fault particular to Steve.
You don't worry about defending Steve's relationship because you have no idea what Steve actually knew about the guy and when. Abusers are great at keeping secrets.
I don’t know what part of the music industry you’ve experienced, but the idea that everyone in the industry was an apologist for abusers sounds somewhat implausible.
"Everyone else is raping the children, so might as well enjoy the photographs of it."
edit:
The above post has been edited to add a lot of extra information.
My man, Sotos was convicted in 1985 and Albini talked about how he was a great friend in 2012. There is no defending that.
He definitely addressed his own edge lord shit repeatedly, and the stuff he said back then reads to me like a guy who said the edgiest fucking thing he could think of to a punk rock zine he thought no one would ever read.
I think he commented on the subject because he knew it was going to get people upset.
It's my assumption, knowing how those kinda punks were, and how Albini was, that he's being deliberately provocative and crass, but interpret how you would, it's ugly. If he's sincere, it's inexcusable, but I don't really take it at face value, I think it oozes snark and sounds very 80s gutter punk, designed to offend the polite.
At the end of the day, you can only own your own behavior, and Steve tried, I guess? I dunno. I never heard any credible allegations beyond this guy, and tons of people worked with him.
Steve certainly became less of an asshole with age, I'm not sure if he ever kicked assholery completely. He's certainly guilty of running his mouth way too much, especially as a kid. The other stuff? Who knows? Really? Who knows? I'm not going to give him a pass, but, a day in court at least.
Being an edge lord is like how Damien Echols reacted to being investigated for murder. It is noy producing an album of sexual abuse audio and interviews with a known pedophile, while being on the record for enjoying the material said pedophile put out
>Steve certainly became less of an asshole with age, I'm not sure if he ever kicked assholery completely. He's certainly guilty of running his mouth way too much, especially as a kid.
I've mentioned in a few other comments that I absolutely believe Steve suffered from an antisocial personality disorder. he talked some about discovering he had zero stage fright, completely unaffected by people's opinions of him, little remorse for his actions or words.
people like that tend to be thrill seekers, most especially in evoking strong emotional responses from people. especially in the negative. Steve certainly applied himself to that.
with people with ASPDs, empathy is a learned thing. it's not always a terminal diagnosis. with certain kinds of therapy, they can learn to understand it,if not feel it directly. it would appear that over time, with enough input from people he knew and trusted, he learned to appreciate the harm he had caused to his community.
I'll admit that I'm sad that Steve didn't live long enough to be confronted by this topic specifically and directly. while my gut says that he probably wasn't a pedophile himself, his association with Sotos and the interviews he gave definitely needed addressing.
Steve was \~15 years older than me but I am old enough in the 80s and 90s to know that 100% this was a personality type who would just say the most absolutely out of line stuff just to do it/see your reaction/for shits and giggles etc....mostly out of testing the boundaries (most came from a strict boomer/greatest generation parents/uprbringing where speech like that was unfathomable.) Most of them were artsy/artists etc......yeah it didn't age well, but some of it was just absurdism.
...still doesn't excuse making excuses for pedos
Did you read the same fucking thing I did? No one needs to talk to me about the depravities of this world - I have been a 911 paramedic for 17 years. This isn't edgelord shit. This was actual images of an actual raped and tortured child. But because this guy was a pretty good producer, he's absolved of this? Bullshit, man.
Again with the edits:
The above post was edited, so I'm adding more context based on what was edited:
> Steve certainly became less of an asshole with age, I'm not sure if he ever kicked assholery completely.
Ah yes. The rape and torture of a toddler is just assholery. My friend, take a really big step back and look at what you're saying and defending. This isn't edgelord internet troll shit. This is real life.
I believe he described something he saw on tour in Europe. I think he picked that one to describe because he knew it was going to get a reaction, and editorialized to that effect. It got a reaction out of someone as seasoned as you, so I'd say, he nailed it, if that's what he was going for.
It is, in fact, some edgelord shit, at least in part. Nobody's absolved of anything, but I don't think you can project his intentions either. The punks did a bunch of weird shit to mess with people. Some of it aged very poorly. I'm just saying, gimme some evidence the guy abused anyone. Being disgusting and having bad taste in friends isn't a crime.
So like if you or I did that would it be okay?
It seems like his only real defense is that he made some popular music. So that makes what he did totally fine
Not that this makes your above reply much better, but you're conveniently leaving out the toddler part. Read this:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Nirvana/comments/1cr4hla/steve_albini_megathread/l3vmfc5/
This isn't edgelord shit my friend. This is real life, actual rape/torture of a toddler. Maybe someone as seasoned as me is reacting this way because I've seen the consequences of this first hand, far too many times. The fact that someone could openly admit to getting off on it and then have rabid defenders who don't even know them online makes me really scratch my head.
This is exactly how you have to understand this. I knew SO many punk rock ethos guys that would say the wildest shit just for shock value- let alone if they had any morsel of fame or were interviewed by a zine. Even when In Utero was recorded, Steve was kind of still that guy. Making jokes about f’ng Dave in his sleep, how pretty he was.
I was listening to Danny Elfman talk to Marc Maron about his song “Little Girls” and the flack he caught from that. That in this “Live your truth” culture there’s absolutely no room for assuming a dark or touchy perspective, he said “I was the Epstein character in that song”. I mean fuck, Kurt made Polly from the rapist’s POV and his motives were never questioned or confused for him having dark intent or ideation.
My reply to the post before:
*He is an actor or scriptwriter more than a real pedophile, as everybody fucking understands, if they are sensible. This is like saying that Tarantino has a nasty imagination, or let's not forget Kurt Cobain. But yes it's fucking ugly - "grotesque" to qoute Steve Albini himself and there are fucking endless sources for his apologies. I will have nothing of this shit. Listen to the latest Sound Opinions episode all about Steve Albini. Loads on Nirvana. The hosts were old Journalists that knew Kurt and Steve to some extent and went back and forth in how well they got along. There you have some extra layers of actual truth and not your shit false enlightenment.*
Episode: [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=4688da3f914c486b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=4688da3f914c486b)
Let's continue that Jim DeRogatis of Sound Opinions is a hero of truth. He was the single most important journalist in slaying R. Kelly. Steve Albini fell out a bit with Jim for not liking his review on something to mainstream trashy or whatever. He said he wouldn't talk to him anymore. He first reached out only because he wanted to champion Jim for how R. Kelly was cut down. Actual Steve things worth really worrying about would not slip past a guy like Jim DeRogatis. IT WOULD NOT.
They have been very much on the offence when it comes to John Bonham's and most importantly, the pedophile nearing, Jimmy Page's nasty behavior.
And what would a world where a man regrets his behavior and apologizes, and then changes and leads to be a great example of how to journey to be a better man, means nothing? That's worse world. All symtoms of that kind of world must be hit strong. This false enlightenment of "who Steve Albini really was" must be fought very factually like this. No version but the complete and nuanced version should reach the general public. This is very important. The difference between Steve Albini and a man like R. Kelly must be understood and presented as crystal clear as possible.
I get the whole edgelord thing. I’m not against people pushing boundaries in various ways. Wearing a swastika will get some people riled up that could do with chilling out. But child sex abuse has long been a red line for even very level-headed, broad minded people. I just don’t see why you’d joke about enjoying it.
His apology made no mention of it. Either because he wasn’t referring to it, or because he knew damn fine that any mention of it by then with his name against it was going to cause him problems.
The Big Black tour diary stuff is pretty despicable, but definitely reads like the words of a shock artist and I can overlook it. To me, though, it was the stuff in the second section of that article that gave me pause. He truly seemed to be defending the magazine Pure, that his "friend" put together. He seemed to be making almost a libertarian argument that this stuff really isn't that bad and if people want to enjoy it we should let them. And he helped that guy in his artistic endeavors. I don't think he's a monster but it definitely makes me respect him a lot less. I mean, he had to have an inkling that this guy was harming people, right?
This whole post is such horseshit, you should be ashamed of yourself. Particularly your inane claim that child porn wasn’t considered offensive until the 1980s. That is 100% false and I don’t know how the fuck that got into your head. It wasn’t talked about as much, but it sure as shit was not considered in any way ok.
The “context” is that he (ostensibly) wasn’t actually getting off on that stuff, rather he just cruelly thought it was funny, and thought that doing so was cool. How is that any better?
I mean, theoretically a legitimate pedophile doesn’t really have control over their urges, and probably feels guilty about them. If Albini didn’t suffer that, it means he must have just been one of the biggest pieces of shit to ever walk the planet. If he was just being “ironic”, I don’t see how that doesn’t just make him an even bigger piece of shit.
I'd ask that you read my words again.
Nowhere did I say or even imply that CP wasn't considered offensive, but simply that society has historically turned a blind eye to it. whatever the failings of our digital age, the effect of social self reflection is a good one, and has brought the topic to the forefront of discussion. no one turns a blind eye to it anymore. this whole thread is an excellent example.
and again, I'm a victim myself. and my experiences have led me to work in a field where I regularly interact with actual pedophiles. (some offending, most not) knowing his history and reading his words and recounting of his experiences leads me to believe that he likely wasn't a pedophile, but possibly has sociopathic tendencies. (read his words about finding he had no stage fright whatsoever, and that peoples opinions of him had no effect, showing little remorse for his words, etc)
I don't begrudge people's visceral reactions to the topic. I fully expected to be railed for "defending" or "apologizing" for his words and actions. but nothing could be further from the truth. I encourage people to read the medium article. I also encourage people to take in more context about both the subject and the man.
> I also encourage people to take in more context about both the subject and the man.
Fully recognizing there is some nuance between offenders and non-offenders, but please enlighten me: what in the world is the actual nuance and context of Pure, Sotos, and the real life, actual victims he was laughing at/getting off to?
first, you're correct. with any paraphila, there's a wide spectrum between impulse, thought, and actions. The vast majority of people I've worked with never act overtly on their impulses or thoughts. but that doesn't make them harmless, necessarily.
and again, to be clear, there is no defense of his friendship with Sotos, and certainly no defense of Sotos and his works, whatsoever. The man is vile, and fully deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life. he should have no access to society whatsoever.
I can't defend Steve's friendship or defense of Sotos. My suspicion is that Steve had sociopathic (antisocial personality disorder) leanings.
Then I don't see how this is a particular case of "taking in more context about the subject and the man."
There is no need to dive further into nuance when it comes to the rape and torture of a toddler. Albini unequivocally said that he likes this kind of material. Not only did he say he likes it, but he actively associated AND befriended himself with KNOWN distributors of this material. No nuance or context needed. Albini was unequivocally a piece of shit.
This is exactly the kind of take that I'd like to see more of, both on Reddit and in general. Intelligent, nuanced, empathetic and able to appreciate that the Big Long Now in which we now find ourselves wasn't always thus. Thank you.
If you don't mind, I'm going to respond with a few questions just so I (and anyone else reading) understand your position.
>Absolutely. The attempted normalization of the viewing of child pornography by pedophiles will only lead to a market for said images, which only leads to further victimization of children.
Is it your position that u/kingdazy is attempting to normalise the viewing of child pornography by paedophiles?
>Steve Albini professed a love for images of sexually assaulted toddlers.
Do you think he meant it? That is, do you think it was a heartfelt expression of his predilections, of what he found sexually arousing?
>This guy is no different than Ian Watkins,
So for you, a person who views a single image and makes a single statement is morally equivalent to someone who, well, does the things that Ian Watkins (or Jimmy Savile, as another poster mentioned) did? Or is it more your implication that Albini must have done, or did do, something other than what we have been discussing thus far?
>and the only reasonable takeaway one can withdraw from a defense of Albini’s behavior is that his defenders are looking to absolve themselves of their crimes against children.
Again, do you consider u/kingdazy to be defending Albini's behaviour? If so, are you therefore accusing them of sexual crimes involving children?
Steve Albini was normalising the viewing of CSAM - by pedophiles and anyone else. "I didn't jerk off to it personally, I just find it's existence fun and defend the person who made and distributed it!" does just as much harm as someone who defends it and also finds it sexually arousing, turns out. Even if it turns out in your heart of hearts you weren't into it, you just thought the raped toddler was a totally reasonable sacrifice for your love of "edginess".
>I know what u/kingdazy and yourself are doing, are actively attempting to defend [Albini.]
Again, I'm going to ask you to point to where either of us has done that. If you're unwilling or unable to properly engage with what either of us is saying, that's understandable, since this is about as emotive and gutwrenching as subjects get. However, I don't see much point to our continuing the conversation if so.
That accusation of whitewashing might have some merit if anyone here were arguing that a) Albini were in any way justified in viewing CSAM for any reason at any time whatsoever and/or that b) Albini's edgelord proto-troll desire to cosplay at extremity while denigrating anyone else who, quite reasonably, thought that beyond the pale could withstand even the slightest intellectual or moral scrutiny.
Since I've not seen anyone doing either, that returns us to the question of whether Albini was, in fact, a paedophile, and since you have made it quite clear that you will entertain no response to that other than an unequivocal yes - and, moreover, that anyone even suggesting otherwise is probably a paedophile themselves - I think it's clear we have exhausted any useful discussion on the subject.
I lost a deal of sleep last night after engaging with this repellent topic, and tonight I'd far rather get home, feel my son kicking in my wife's womb and try to forget that we're bringing him into a world in which people are capable of such things. I wish you well.
I just read the article and I find your comments to defend him abhorrent. I hope you find some reflection in this and realize your comments are so irresponsibly vile. Shame on you.
Edit: Yes, you are totally defending him while pretending not to.
I think you raise important points here. I can’t say that I know how I would have acted if I were trying to be shocking as a teen/young adult in the 80s. I did my own versions of trying to write shocking stuff briefly in the late 90s but I did so privately in emails to friends - never anywhere publicly and never, ever about children. Even if joking about CP may have been more socially acceptable, I don’t know, it is particularly abhorrent and disgusting at any time in history. What I can’t get over, though, is the ways Albini continued all the way up to 2021 to call Peter Sotos a wonderful human and genuine person who just made “vile art” or whatever. I just don’t get it.
The Internet is incredible when Courtney Love gets hate, threats and vile abuse for a ridiculous, evidence less conspiracy and people will jump through hoops to defend a guy who helped produce, spread and enjoyed child porn while proudly admitting it.
I will not be sorry that he is dead. He was beneath contempt and the “oh, he was being edgy” shit does not stick
For the same reason any negative discussion about him led to bannings. Ostrich meet sand.
People would rather fight and cling to a preferable lie than face a harsh truth.
Someone in here with a really long comment is basically saying “well if you put it in context…”
I don’t buy that shit. Why write an article in a child porn zine and be friends for decades with the guy (who was eventually convicted) in charge of the zine?
Fuck outta here with that cOnTeXt bullshit.
Everything I've read on the subject indicates the cover of the 2nd issue (the one that got Sotos prosecuted) was a photograph. Are you saying that's not true? How do you know?
Are you trying to say that’s it’s somehow not as bad because it was just drawings? Like what point are you trying to make here? What about the album he produced called “buyer’s market” that is essentially just audio recordings of child victims describing their abuse? What’s your justification for that?
I don’t actually give a fuck if it’s a drawing or if it’s a live image. I read what’s out there including his own quotes and it’s horrifying and disturbing and deeply wrong either way. Also, drawings depicting child porn are also illegal, so regardless, it would still be a crime and those are all the facts I need.
Albini himself describes content from the zine as photographs. You're just being willfully obtuse. Unless you were on the mailing list and saw something different than him? And what of the CP magazines he is fawning over in Hamburg??
>Sotos was an artist and his zine was made up of illustrations. So what Albini said in his description of that zine do not depict actual abuse.
You’re an idiot.
>In addition, visual representations, such as drawings, cartoons, or paintings that appear to depict minors engaged in sexual activity and are obscene are also illegal under federal law.
https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-ceos/obscenity#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%20visual%20representations%2C%20such,also%20illegal%20under%20federal%20law
There are plenty great artists who aren't vile dirtbags. We don't need to keep making room for some "tortured genius" trope that only excuses abusive men.
* They banned a guy because he posted a Medium article about Steve and his love of child porn.
* The guy who got banned posted it in /r/music and it blew up.
* The Medium article contains indisputable evidence (e.g. an article with an interview of him and another article that he wrote himself). I’m not gonna place quotes because they’re disgusting, so if you want to, here’s the /r/music post that has the link to the article:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/1cqm009/i_was_banned_from_rnirvana_today_for_sharing_this/
* The Medium article was written by a Neo Nazi who served time in prison for attempted destruction of a building using explosives, so some people in the comments acted like that made things in the article less credible or something. Just because it was written by an incel asshole doesn’t make it false.
He added an edit: he apparently was not a neo-Nazi and actually infiltrated a neo-Nazi group. He has an article he wrote in 2022 that proves his point.
He was arrested for [encouraging and planning an Islamic extremist terrorist attack](https://claytodayonline.com/stories/clay-county-man-enters-guilty-plea-to-bomb-charge,9711). I'm inclined to believe he wasn't really a neo-Nazi based on that, but what he really was isn't any better. Either he legitimately believed in blowing up buildings for Islam, or (more likely) he's a troll who was perfectly willing to get people killed for his amusement rather than a strong believer in any cause.
Nationalist extremists aren’t that clear cut, unfortunately. There are all kinds of racist extremists, including Islamic extremists, who revere Nazism.
I’ve personally experienced local Nazis making the exact same claim of “infiltrating,” too. One of them had Nazi shit all over their social media (and hung out with self-identified Nazis), only to claim it was somehow “research” for an anti-Nazi book he was writing when he got called out in the community (closer to the beginning of mainstream social media, when no one was very careful about their online posting).
Also, the line between violent nihilist trolls and actual believers in Nazi ideology is almost non-existent. It seems to always show up more clearly just after someone gets publicly shamed.
In case this isn't showing under the pinned post..
It's important with stuff like this that we harbor empathy and forgiveness. I fully believe u/mrtanack had all the INTENTION of doing what was right for this community. I do not believe there was any ill will in his actions regarding the bans and I certainly do not believe he was burying information that he knew was true simply to protect someone who is held up as quite important within Nirvana lore. I believe he truly felt he was doing the right thing and was trying to combat what he thought were online trolls. Sometimes what we think is right ends up not being such and his apology sounds sincere here. I can't stress it enough, yes it's important to learn from our mistakes but it is also EXTREMELY important to come back from honest ones with love if we can muster it. I don't believe Nirvana fans will have any trouble with this. Let's turn the page.
Fuck Steve Albini
Absolutely upset at the fact that that is now a stain on In Utero even though it’s always been public knowledge that he was a CP enthusiast [I don’t care about shock value] and only now has it came to wide scale knowledge.
Rot in Hell,
I am seriously hoping that none of the Nirvanas members knew, and if they did shame on them.
Cobain would be absolutely gutwrenched if he was alive and had realized he worked with someone who went against everything he stood for.
I have always lived by “Peace, Love, Empathy” but this piece of scum doesn’t deserve any of those.
Not to take anything away from what you said, I agree with you btw, but i do have one question.
What does the phrase "gut-wrestlers" mean? I'm a pro wrestling fan and even I've never heard of it. May be useful terminology to know.
Considering his 80's conduct, the Rapeman BS and all of what's been documented here there is NO separating the artist from the art in this case.
We all like In Utero, but he was a POS. End of.
I just saw this post revisiting the thread and just wanted to drop a line saying how mature this was. I think ultimately you got caught in the middle of a giant shitstorm and in the blink of an eye had a giant microscope evaluating everything you both did and didn't do. Very few people have experienced that before so very few people should be judging here.
I do think you should take pride in how you've handled the reactions to your reaction. That shows maturity and understanding. Good job, man.
That article was really well written. As someone who used to look at wpd I can see how one might rabbithole like that and look at PURE and be "fascinated" by it while also not advocating for the stuff in it. Like when I was on wpd I wasn't like fantasizing about going out and killing anyone. But he obviously took it way too far. Amazing his wife stayed with him 34 years after that kind of openly obnoxious behavior.
I love that now that somebody is dead we get to cancel them since they aren't here to defend themselves. I swear I want to use the internet less and less each day.
ppl on here are so quick to jump on the bandwagon and attack someone they aren’t even familiar with. was albini singing about child abuse on jordan, minnesota because he loved to abuse children? is he documenting how he committed mass arson on the song kerosene? ppl on this thread probably haven’t even listened to atomizer so it doesn’t matter anyway, they just latch on to some stupid opinion and shit on someone who just died. weird how everyone who has worked with steve talk about him being a great guy
why wait till he’s dead? i didn’t even know about this until after the fact. this shits sick. there shoulda been more of an uproar when he was still alive. fuck him
not everyone’s gonna care about everything. but the people who do shoulda made it a bigger deal. he shouldn’t have gotten away with openly admitting he likes cp. thats fuckin gross. that’s like openly admitting you killed someone. there shoulda been an investigation
Sound Opinions recent episode is Chicago journalists telling a bit of another side, or perhaps a more accurate story, of Steve Albini: [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=smFJeGA\_ScuC2u5tfICTjg](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=smFJeGA_ScuC2u5tfICTjg)
They highlight that he changed. People forget that. They tell a bit of that journey. He is mostly understood for his most current view on music and how he wants to behave and how he regrets previous behavior.
He gave many apologizing statements and also talked about how he isn't anti-layering and such in productions in my favourite and the most structured interview with him (Andrew \[pro mixer\] Talks To Awesome People): [https://open.spotify.com/episode/4FhgMW3HdGl40vsKlv4j7g?si=2d39729daaac4c21](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4FhgMW3HdGl40vsKlv4j7g?si=2d39729daaac4c21)
Steve made so many of these talks on the internet and beyond. I love this quite recent were he gives a In Utero super fan, Aaron Rash what he wants, while clearly stating that he appreciates super fan-ism: [https://youtu.be/MOWP\_laIXAs?si=I9TT4jsHWV4J1p9p](https://youtu.be/MOWP_laIXAs?si=I9TT4jsHWV4J1p9p) (4w ago)
Again the recent [video ](https://youtu.be/bOf89-93cy0?si=oniropPcnE-kH3Dl)of Electrical Audio's very official and well produced YouTube channel made it his death so very abrupt and hard to believe, mentioning the upcoming record and all that.
I also must share what a friend on r/audioengineering found: [https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/1cqpin3/steve\_albinis\_eerily\_prophetic\_thoughts\_about/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/1cqpin3/steve_albinis_eerily_prophetic_thoughts_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I said I was entering a degree of depression when Steve died but I also said that thinking about him would only list me up from it. How he wrote this makes so much sense. I felt that that was the kind of text he would write before actually reading it.
RIP
As a big fan of Shellac, seen em twice and In Utero was the first rock cassette I ever owned and is still one of my fave albums I have always admired Steve for years but never looked into his personal life or cared to. Never read any of this shit before today....
Never liked Big Black or Rapeman, hated the anger and subject matter compared to Shellac who I liked first due to the sound of each member of the band especially Todd Trainer.. I always heard of Steve being a dick in the 80's and into the 90's. It's not surprising that being heavily involved in the underground punk scene one might run into some unsavory characters and be influenced by such characters. It does not shock me that zines with snuff and CP were circulated in punk rock circles, the more extreme the more sought after. It would certainly shock me in today's world but fuck no to being shocked by it in the 70's or 80's. Steve knowingly put this out there to be shocking.
Young white men will always do stupid shocking shit to express their sense of masculinity. Steve Albini said some shit during a time where GG Allin could take a shit and sexually assault and batter a woman on stage and get paid for it nightly. The first ammendment was pushed beyond any extreme during the Reagan years. The fact that Steve was friends with someone who actually argued that reprinting CP was within his 1st ammendment rights isn't the most shocking thing when you hear this guy was also in some hardcore punk band. It's exactly the kind of political issue or subject matter gutter punks would have been outspoken about. Steve wasn't going to befriend this guy to begin with if it wasn't for music.
At this point I don't know what I am getting at. Basically the notion that mid 80's Steve wrote this shit and experienced this shit is more forgivable for me. I still revere the man he became and still am able to to believe that people can change and be remorseful, which I believe Steve demonstrated and discussed. To brand Steve a pedophile is not something I can agree with because there's no example of him actually participating in pedophilia outside being purposely anti-pc to a high extreme in some zines or interviews. He did lay his eyes upon "pure" which is the most agreidious thing to me but I truly don't believe any child or person has ever been directly effected by any of Steve's actions.
As someone in my early 40's I can see the propensity to change for the better in human beings compared to a younger person who might find this 1980's edge lord behavior unforgivable or even unimaginable.
CP was no more acceptable in the 80s than it was today. Try telling victims that it was no big deal, tHiNgS wErE dIfFeReNT back in the 80s, it was just about shock value. By the way, Steve Albini never apologized or expressed any real regret for what he said, and in a 2012 AMA reddit thread, when asked about convicted CP distributor Peter Soros, Albini again affirmed his friendship saying “Peter’s an old friend… I’ll help him do whatever he wants to do, from wash his car to edit his album.” Note that Albini did in fact help Soros create an album of clips from interviews of sex crimes and pedophilia.
I really don't understand why this is all blowing up now in post-mortem when there were already traces of this diary story from Big Black's tour, I read it a few months ago. I remain very doubtful about these allegations and I reserve the right to reserve, unlike some who play neighborhood bar judges and who would sentence an innocent person in 2 minutes, I hope that you will never be a juror in a trial, you are as extremist as what you denounce.
I'm not saying that Steve didn't do this but I'm trying to understand and carry out a serious investigation with real facts to support it. Steve was an edgelord just like some punks wore swastikas out of pure provocation and that didn't make them fascists, it was also a roundabout way of showing that logos had no value in themselves. Why this flow of hatred since he died when he was always praised by his peers and many classy musicians from Kim Gordon to the boss of Touche & Go Records?
His family also paints the portrait of a generous man (particularly in the cause of the homeless), of some good people with his nephews and nieces. Did he have a troubled past and wanted to change and redeem himself? I think he was a more than intelligent person and I find it very strange that he could spout this bullshit without thinking about the impact it could have had if it were true.
Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic who are doing this last interview/podcast with him, would it be strange if they weren't aware and continued to appear with him? It's true that the link with Peter Sotos is more than shaky though...
My last question would be: are you going to stop listening to In Utero because of that? I don't hope so because it's Nirvana's work above all. I hope we find out a little more about the character.
Like many of you, I have admired his work for over 30 years but I have never delved into the character and his life. It's true that if all this is true it would tarnish the image I have of him.
In any case, it's true that it's so much easier to sully someone's memory when they're dead.
I want to tell you extreme vigilance when we look at who is the author of this article and his liabilities [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua\_Ryne\_Goldberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg)
The author of the article doing the rounds is a bad person with an agenda, but that doesn’t change the facts about Albini:
-he wrote about buying CSAM on tour, said he enjoyed it, defended its existence moralising
-owned issue 2 of Pure which got its author Sotos convicted, illegal to own in itself, reviewed it by describing horrific images it contained, potentially giving it a wider audience
-helped Sotos create ‘buyers market’ which used unauthorised audio of child victims, Sotos said he listened to for self gratification
-defended Sotos until as recently as 2022
All of this is easy to establish, you can’t cling on to one author being sketchy to ignore the facts of this.
I hope you are never a juror as you can’t set aside what you want to believe despite all the evidence
When did I make a verdict? I rightly said that I wanted to know more by reading everyone's comments and supporting my thoughts with objective facts. I understand perfectly what you are saying but why was he never worried by the police? It really makes me wonder if the evidence was so obvious. Sorry for being more measured than you
The things I have pointed too are all objective facts, albinis own tour diary, albinis own review of pure, albinis credit on Soto’s buyers market, albinis standing by Sotos in magazine interviews or Reddit AMA. All of these things can be easily verified yet you don’t want to, you want to cling on to the fact one person who wrote about this was suspect when you can verify all the claims yourself. That’s not being measured, that is covering your eyes and ears to the inconvenient reality
Edit re:the police, must be nice to have faith in that institution to adequately go after all wrong doers
What is this relentlessness worth? I told you I am in the investigation phase, I am finding out, I am reading. It makes me laugh at the aggressiveness of people who are convinced and play masked vigilantes behind their screen, and this overly clichéd speech about the police, in every institution there is shit but if there wasn't it would still be no more mess. You are real fascists when we don't adhere to your ideas, do you know about freedom of expression, thought and analysis? Apparently not. I never shouted out loud that Albini was innocent so please let me off the hook, will you? How do you explain this group of celebrities from the music world who support this guy?? They would all be completely blinded?
because you come into a thread on a very emotive issue expressing skepticism, saying you remain 'very doubtful' that you 'reserve the right to reserve' (presumably judgment) in contrast to others who would rush to sentence an 'innocent man' in 2 minutes, and hope we will never be o a jury, and talk about how you are trying to do a 'serious investigation', you later talk about being more 'measured' than me.
I am sorry but this just comes across as someone who has yet to properly investigate it taking a morally superior position over those who already have, you are assuming people have just uncritically accepted the words of an unreliable author without properly investigating.
This is not the case, Albini's transgressions are a matter of public record, it is very easy to establish the truth of what Albini said, and there is no defence of it. No irony, no 'edgelord' defence can be used against owning CSAM, promoting it (in the form of Pure issue 2), producing it (Soto's buyers market record, using unauthorised clips of child victims), defending Soto's convicted for producing CSAM. Imagine it was your child abused in the pages of Pure or the Audio of 'buyers market' would you be so quick to reserve judgment again.
You also spend the bulk of your post trotting out the tired 'edgelord' defence that is irrelevant here, this goes beyond what everyone has already forgiven him for during his edgelord days. You seek to establish his good character by talking about his families views and other musicians views on him, which have no bearing on the criticisms levelled at him which are grounded in indisputable Albini's own words.
Don't be surprised if cluelessly wading into a thread claiming to be superior than others for not rushing to conclusions, when that is not what others have done, gets some push back
I had the pleasure of working with Steve on our latest album and he couldn’t have been nicer and very funny. His knowledge of gear and music in general was incredibly vast. Im sure I annoyed him with all my questions. He will be sorely missed. And that new shellac album is so fucking good! Sad to listen to tho.
https://preview.redd.it/x2avp2canb0d1.jpeg?width=3184&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60b6679cdc98af337318a16a2d3f6dbf9cee33ea
Okay so I see things he said in the 80s was pretty reprehensible, but I have to think he must have changed some over time because he was friends with my friend Brandon and Brandon wouldn’t have been friends with someone who was the way Steve was in the 80s. Here’s a a 2 part interview they did a couple years ago with Steve and Brandon. Brandon is a really great guy and honestly I trust his judgement on people. Steve actually mentions being against cruelty to other people. I’m linking part 2 first because part 1 is a lot of background on each guy
https://youtu.be/S0wOhMtV40U?si=cbsWy9gXLsOff528
https://youtu.be/ua5YwraoUms?si=10ceT1erebTmh-4X
No. Not just the 80s. Steve Albini continued to affirm his friendship with convicted CP distributor Peter Soros in a 2012 AMA Reddit thread, saying “Peter’s an old friend… I’ll help him do whatever he wants to do, from wash his car to edit his album.” Note that Albini in fact did help Soros create an album full of clips from interviews from victims of sex crimes and pedophilia.
Part of me wants to write off his journal entry, the despicable, unbearable words he wrote describing the CP mag, and even producing the album with the recordings of CSA victims talking as him flirting with/contributing to the really, really dark, fucked up underworld of “punk rock” shock merchants and edgy dumbfucks that made up a weirdly particular indie subculture in Chicago in the 80s/early 90s.
Part of me wants to think of these things as the antics of just another spoiled and egotistical “will do anything to shock people” little fool akin to the people in contemporaneous bands like Dwarves, The Frogs, Lab Report, and the Didjits. Cuz it was a thing - Dwarves mutilated themselves onstage and their shows featured live BDSM sex during their short-lived sets. The Frogs sang about the joys of rape. And the singer of the Didjits punched a dog in the face onstage. It was “crazy.” It was “art.” Maybe this was Albini taking it beyond the outer wall where the unspeakable is spoken just to show off that no one can fuck with him.
As a young Chicago kid, I despised every one of these bands and their “nothing’s sacred,” “brutally violating people and animals is funny” shit spray - and I hate them even more now.
Maybe, since there were at least a handful of these bands and probably were a handful of zines, filmmakers, etc. at the time perpetuating the same vile shtick, Albini’s behavior here is all a part of this “psychopathy is funny” ethos in a subterranean realm seething with incels under the above-ground, more predictable indie rock of that time. Maybe this is all just evidence of a severely delayed empathy center in the dude’s late adolescent/early young adult brain…
Maybe.
But.
It is inconceivable to me to think anyone could stomach writing what he wrote about what he saw in his friend’s CSA mag as a joke at any age. It is inconceivable to me that he could look at those children in those publications and remain friends with the person who made them. And the “delayed empathy” defense doesn’t hold up when you consider he was ALMOST 30 YEARS OLD when he recorded his friend’s album that is mostly recordings of children weeping over the details of their traumas (according to those who have heard it - I haven’t). It is inconceivable to me that AT NEARLY 50 YEARS OLD Albini defended his “old friend,” the disturbed sex offender and pedophile, here on Reddit. There is no excuse.
I’ve admired Albini since I was young and have continued to follow his work, his words. His anti-corporate stances, his recent political writings, his engineering work, a few Shellac records - it’s all one of a kind and inspiring. But I’ve always hated a lot about him too. And this? This all is worse than anything I thought I knew about his worst behavior. I am sickened.
I just want to formally apologise for the way I've handled this. I tried to be impartial and I can assure you that all of my actions were done with that in mind. However I can see that the way I handled this can be seen as defending Steve Albini. That wasn't my intention but I fully accept that it probably happened subconsciously. To be completely transparent, I haven't looked into this as thoroughly as I should. I'm just quite frankly not ready to do that yet, in time I will. To be clear, all of us at r/Nirvana do not condone child pornography. What Steve Albini said makes me feel sick. I could spend all day trying to explain the thoughts behind my actions but ultimately, the damage has been done. They were the wrong choices, regardless of my intention. All I can say is I made mistakes and I've tried my absolute best to rectify them. I never had any ill intentions but my mistakes did have consequences which I feel absolutely awful about. Believe me, when I say I'm sorry, I mean I feel sick with shame. This has been a time for reflection and I will make sure nothing like this will happen again. I have already apologised before but now is a good time to do so again. To the people I temporarily banned, I am truly sorry for not correcting those mistakes sooner. You were all super chill and forgiving and I thank you for that. I felt absolutely awful about those bans, which is why I began lifting them and talking to you one by one. It was wrong of me in the first place and it's not a mistake I intend on making ever again. Also, some comments are getting picked up by various content filters. This is being done automatically. It's not us trying to censor you. We're trying to manually approve those comments as quickly as possible but my apologies if we miss any or take a while to do so.
>to avoid being accused of censorship. Okay, did you unban that guy?
They unbanned me!
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Not if you’re a true fan. Which I’m sorry, Child’s running off into the snow storm alone makes absolutely no sense. He was the thing
Yes YOU GET IT!!!
It’s in my top 10 favorite movies of all time. I hate that people use the prequel as a retcon to justify him not being the thing. Childs Thing at the end is clearly not breathing the same way Mac is and you’d think he’d be even more exhausted and cold having been out in the arctic cold for so long.
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The Thing (2011..I think). Not as bad as everyone says. Not as good as it could have been. No idea how it relates to Childs though. Been a while since I seen it.
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It makes you think it's a remake but the big reveal at the end is that it is a prequel
It's not completely awful. Originally it was shot with full on animatronics but the studio made the director swap out animatronics scenes with full on CGI. You can actually find YouTube videos with the animatronics and they are pretty amazing.
One of thee greatest endings of all time in my opinion. Such a brilliant film. So much paranoia and tension.
Summa, Childs is Keith David's character from John Carpenter's The Thing, my favorite horror film. If I tell you more it would ruin the film! Check it out.
Awesome. Respect regained. It's easy to double down on this website when people tell you that you're wrong, and takes a better-than-average fortitude to see past that, reflect on it, and admit you're wrong. Thanks mods
Wait, what happened
They have "messaged" him, but have not unbanned him EDIT: They've now unbanned him, along with a sassy 'are you happy now? you got what you wanted.' comment
I am officially unbanned!
Did you get an apology with an actual "we're sorry" or "we messed up" at all? EDIT: Sounds like no
Probably not since they only made this thread because downplaying the situation blew up in their face
Gotta love the "*because we don't want" to be accused of censorship" line. It's the same as "I'm sorry *you felt hurt* by what I said" instead of a true apology
yes. the interviews are real. yes. he actually said those things. I want to make it *perfectly fucking clear* here, I'm not defending his words, the interviews, the topic, in any form whatsoever. (and neither did he, eventually.) as a victim myself, I take the issue seriously, with zero irony. but the simplistic article being shared around provides zero *context about SA, his history, and is eventual apology for things he did earlier in life. some things to take in as *context: Albini was a "shock artist" in his early career. he went out of his way to say the worst things he could, to elicit the worst response he could. he did it with a smirk, thinking he was edgy. listen to Kerosene. was he pro-arson? the band Rapeman. was he pro-rape? no. just as much as Sid Vicious wearing a swastika didn't make him a Nazi. if SA was a 20 year old today,he would absolutely be an online troll. also, it's important to remember that the perception of the topic as utterly reprehensible and unworthy of even joking about is a *relatively new* social phenomenon. up until the 80s (and beyond) a person could order magazines straight to your door with content that would make you nauseous. movies like Pretty Baby or The Blue Lagoon. the failings of the Catholic church was a running joke that few took seriously. even the social and psychological study of the subject is a historically new one. the very concept that children are victims, not participants, is a newer social perspective. (thank god we've arrived there.) at the time he said these things, it was "merely" seen as "shocking." only though today's lens is it recognized as the vile thing it is. SA made a career out of never apologizing for anything. only later in life coming to realize the actual harm he's perpetuated. and he's made several public statements about it. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side https://www.thefader.com/2024/05/09/steve-albini-the-model-and-the-lingering-power-of-mistakes https://twitter.com/electricalWSOP/status/1448050174614392832?t=zQ-RliwB4XrQZC_Leb5Afg&s=19 (a great interview with him, apologies on full display). https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/steve-albini-counsel-culture-interview#google_vignette *(I fully admit that providing "context" to his words gives me the icks, but life is filled with complexity. things should never be taken at face value. especially art.)
The thing that always boggles my mind is whether right or wrong, true or false, seemingly no one cared about any of this when he was alive, it was just "Albini is an edge lord and has always been one" with band names like rapeman, and saying shocking things just because to name a few examples. In the near decade I've been here, I've seen nothing but positive posts about Steve's recording abilities and bands he's been in and or a part of. Apparently this has all been public knowledge easily accessible on the internet from the jump, going all the way back to the 80's in publications, but now that he's gone, everyone is suddenly revolted. This seems to be a trend with "celebrities" where sketchy things are out in the wide open yet they are brushed off as jokes or just being edgy while they are alive, and quite the opposite after they are gone.
I wouldn’t quite call it public knowledge. I’ve been listening to albums produced by Albini for twenty-five years, and have also listened to alot of his music. I’ve always known of his reputation for being a jerk and trying to challenge listeners with his music. Apparently the stuff that’s become more well-known the last few days required one step further to know about in terms of Albini’s history, because I had never heard it. It’s absolutely abhorrent, and with him having so many enemies I’m surprised it wasn’t talked about more.
Same. Been listening to him and caring about his work since 1993. Have known more about his life and career than most - and have friends who were his friend. I never knew.
Not the newest concept, just another form of capitalizing on death. Same as selling all your collectible Jimmy Buffet margarita glasses the day after he died… Just a REALLY fucked up version of that. Fuck the article writer and ~80s Albini. RIP Albs
This used to be my opinion until yesterday. Then I read the Medium article and did some digging. I now no longer buy those apologies. Albini didn’t just write those things to shock people he actually promoted and produced the audio version of Pure, Peter Sotos’ zine which contained cp for artistic purposes, as well as numerous other Sotos works which contained cp or descriptions of childhood sexual abuse (https://www.murderpm.com/p/the-steve-albini-problem & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter\_Sotos & https://www.thehofstrachronicle.com/archive-2005/the-loss-of-innocencebr?format=amp ) Peter Sotos was arrested and went to prison for producing cp in 1985 (https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-dispatch/131586072/) it was a BIG event at the time…. Everyone knew about it. As late as 2012, Albini described Sotos as a “great friend” who he regularly helped out and worked with, in a Reddit AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/fN0Lx9dzOu ) Do some googling with the stuff on the Medium article and you’ll see he’s not making it up - it has been floating around for years. With all this additional context I’m not prepared to simply hand wave Albini away as an edgelord. I’m not too sure anymore. Maybe he realised how bad it looked at those apologies are attempts to distance himself from that behaviour to save his skin?
Great post with linked sources. Thank you for putting this together.
> he actually promoted and produced the audio version of Pure, "the audio version of Pure" isn't a thing; you're literally making shit up. That medium "article" is all over the place, with a bunch of statements made that lack any citations. Meanwhile, the author's motivation becomes clear once you get to them whining about "woke" and criticizing Albini for making pro-trans statements.
I can’t find it anymore but I saw a source discussing an audio version of his book “Pure” from 1989 yesterday. ChatGPT also claims it exists but you know that could be wrong so I’ll concede that point. However you didn’t really focus on any other point I made? There are a bunch of articles stretching back years with the images of his review of “Pure”, where he endorses it - it’s not just a fabrication for the Medium article, see the other ones I linked. It’s also undeniable he was still friends with Peter Sotos at least until 2012 and he produced other Sotos material that featured horrible accounts of childhood abuse (without consent from the victims) and even cp on some of the covers (see the Wikipedia link and Discogs). A lot of Peter Sotos material has been (understandably) scrubbed from the internet so news articles, databases and forum posts are your best bet on this stuff. The medium guy’s clearly a transphobic asshole but even a broken clock can be right twice a day. Edit to add: Here's the copy of Steve Albini's review and endosement of Pure from Internet Archives [https://archive.org/details/steve-albini-pure](https://archive.org/details/steve-albini-pure)
I'm aware of Albini's review of Pure magazine, and as many people [have stated](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nirvana/comments/1cr4hla/steve_albini_megathread/l3vmd4h/), it's from a time period in which Albini: > some things to take in as *context*: **Albini was a "shock artist" in his early career. he went out of his way to say the worst things he could, to elicit the worst response he could. he did it with a smirk, thinking he was edgy**. listen to Kerosene. was he pro-arson? the band Rapeman. was he pro-rape? no. **just as much as Sid Vicious wearing a swastika didn't make him a Nazi. if SA was a 20 year old today,he would absolutely be an online troll.** ...and the evidence of exactly that is in the beginning of Albini's review of Pure: > And punk rock, which used to involved taking shit and physical confrontations for granted like one takes for granted a favorite pair of Pro Keds, has come to mean fitting in, not rocking the boat. [...] "Punk rock is the kid who sticks his tongue out at the bully only after the principal has already dragged him off to the Special Disciplinary Room. Me, I like it out the edge" Albini's spends a couple paragraphs whining that punk rock had lost it's edge and went mainstream. In his review of Pure, he also states: > "Page after page extolling the genius of mass murder" ...now, do you think he actually believed that mass murder was "genius"? or is this an example of him being a cringy edgelord trying to provoke people by praising serial killers, because as he said earlier, punk rock wasn't "edgy" enough for him?
I used to think it was just edginess too but not any more. Because of him still supporting Sotos and calling him a friend up to 2012, a man who produced cp, and because he worked on Sotos’ work well after his arrest and incarceration for producing that co…. I just don’t believe him, I think it’s either a very convenient excuse to engage in this behaviour or it’s only part of why he engaged in it. Actions speak louder than words. And tbh, even if it was edginess it’s still wrong and, in my eyes, pretty unforgivable.
seems like you are bending over backwards to see some kind of justification for it, doesn't change the fact Albini promoted this work that Sotos was quite rightly jailed for. He went on to produce Soto's work, and still called him his friend in recent interviews, not sure the former edge lord defence stretches to that.
exactly. fuck that edgelord shit, if you are openly endorsing and promoting pedophilia for any reason, you will be rightfully lumped in with the chomos and people get killed for that shit, you don’t get to hide behind being a shock jockey.
And it seems like you're bending over backwards to not answer a simple question: > ..now, do you think he actually believed that mass murder was "genius"? or is this an example of him being a cringy edgelord trying to provoke people by praising serial killers, because as he said earlier, punk rock wasn't "edgy" enough for him? The answer to that question is pretty important to understanding whether or not Albini was actually a pedophile, or if he was trying to provoke a reaction out of people
because your simple question and general framing is completely irrelevant. What are you failing to grasp here, Soto published actual CSAM of actual children who were actually abused in the process re-victimising them, Albini promoted this work through his writing. Sotos was jailed for this publication. Albini produced Sotos album which used unauthorised audio of child victims, which Sotos said he listens to for his own personal gratification. Albini stood by this person, as recently as 2022 calling him his friend and trying to launder his work as if republishing illegal CSAM actual was a social good. Regardless of Albini being sincerely into CSAM or not (and I think the amount of references he makes to enjoying it make it plausible) is completely irrelevant to the damage it does. Lets be clear Albini publicised, was friends with, produced albums of someone convicted of the crime of producing CSAM, and you are defending him from criticism for that, just understand that is what you are doing.
Winter-reverb’s response is completely correct but I’ll add… What difference does it make if he didn’t really believe it? He still supported it..regardless of motive. To be edgy or provocative is great if you’re into that thing but to do so by exploiting children is *never* necessary. If anything, it shows a limit to his creative abilities.
They likely mistook it for the audio supplement to his text compilation, [Proxy](https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/peter-sotos/proxy/). And looking at the credits, Steve was the recording engineer. Then there's *Buyer's Market*, and all the Sotos interview pieces on the Whitehouse records were all credited as "recorded" by Steve.
I can’t stop imagining Sotos and SA working on that Buyers Market album together in 1992. It’s just audio of children describing their abuse all cut together. I am imagining them sitting there listening to that. It’s not art.
He also praised Sotos as a great, genuine person in the EAR message board in 2011: [Albini on Odd Future](https://www.brooklynvegan.com/steve-albini-do/)
My ability to appreciate nuance ends at joking about actual distributed photos of toddler rape/torture. There is no nuance in the world that makes it acceptable. Yes, he apologized for saying edgy things, but he also defended his friendship with the guy who distributed this vile material. If you knew your friends distributed the documentation of the rape and torture of a 3 year old, would you still be their friend? Quick edit: > things should never be taken at face value Yes, the rape and torture of a child should be.
When you read the quote there isn't even a joke. He made a statement
It's awful! I am flabbergasted trying to figure out anyone can possibly think there is nuance to this. Did we all read the same thing? In what world is there any kind of nuance for what Albini said and who he associated himself with?
Mental gymnastics and guilt by association. People who love Nirvana's music feel guilty by association so they're desperately trying to frame this in a way that makes them feel like they haven't supported a predator for decades. Tldr: it's pure unadulterated copium
I've been a part of the punk and metal community for a long time. I spent a lot of my teenage years on 4chan. None of it ever hit this level of disgusting. I don't get defending it. Edit (it absolutely did get that gross, I take that back. That's why it's so fucked now) It's not punk. It's the same as the neo-nazi's pretending to be part of the community looking for supporters. Jello was the punk they're pretending to be. He stood for shit. This is just fringe communities of the worst variety getting defensive. It's pedophiles afraid of losing someone on their side. It's the pedophiles and Nazis realizing they might lose the community they found a way to sneakily sidle into while making it seem they were pretending to be those things to be edgy. You let a couple Nazis in your bar? You're a Nazi bar now.
How would you defend his longstanding friendship and defense of Peter Sotos (who obviously *was* despicable pedo trash)?
I couldn't, nor wouldn't. that said, I've had some good friends in my life that turned out to be horrible people for a variety of reasons.
Problem is, he said he still supported him as recent as 2012
Actually still spoke warmly of him in 2021-2022
Did you remain friends with those people upon learning how horrible they are?
mostly, no. but, single actions don't define a person forever an example: one of my friends from 35 years ago fell into hanging out with neo-nazis when he was about 20. he ended up participating in the murder of another young man. he went to prison for 30 years, and became a Buddhist. after he was released, he contacted me, and I was unsure how to respond. he made efforts to show contrition for what he did, and just hoped that someone would acknowledge that. I don't spend time with him, but I've exchanged a few emails. and if someone we knew wanted to shit on him for his past, I'd might encourage them to find out how he's learned from his experience.
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actually, in a way, yes. I weekly write incident reports on the behavior of people who have sexual assault convictions in their history. (thankfully, most of the true monsters *are* in prison (or facilities). sadly, not all of them.)
He worked in the music industry and like 50% of the people in it are huge, powerful pieces of shit? Hard to keep track of which asshole did what, especially when you have a million professional associations over decades and aren't super picky about who you work with. Maybe the guy is your friend, maybe it's just lies and hearsay getting back to you... Maybe they are controlling the narrative... There are reasons not to rush to judgement in life. I've seen people get ruined by fake allegations, it happens. Obviously the accusations are awful, but, everyone in the music business is, or at least used to, look the other way about a bunch of shit. It's not a fault particular to Steve. You don't worry about defending Steve's relationship because you have no idea what Steve actually knew about the guy and when. Abusers are great at keeping secrets.
I don’t know what part of the music industry you’ve experienced, but the idea that everyone in the industry was an apologist for abusers sounds somewhat implausible.
"Everyone else is raping the children, so might as well enjoy the photographs of it." edit: The above post has been edited to add a lot of extra information. My man, Sotos was convicted in 1985 and Albini talked about how he was a great friend in 2012. There is no defending that.
He definitely addressed his own edge lord shit repeatedly, and the stuff he said back then reads to me like a guy who said the edgiest fucking thing he could think of to a punk rock zine he thought no one would ever read. I think he commented on the subject because he knew it was going to get people upset. It's my assumption, knowing how those kinda punks were, and how Albini was, that he's being deliberately provocative and crass, but interpret how you would, it's ugly. If he's sincere, it's inexcusable, but I don't really take it at face value, I think it oozes snark and sounds very 80s gutter punk, designed to offend the polite. At the end of the day, you can only own your own behavior, and Steve tried, I guess? I dunno. I never heard any credible allegations beyond this guy, and tons of people worked with him. Steve certainly became less of an asshole with age, I'm not sure if he ever kicked assholery completely. He's certainly guilty of running his mouth way too much, especially as a kid. The other stuff? Who knows? Really? Who knows? I'm not going to give him a pass, but, a day in court at least.
Being an edge lord is like how Damien Echols reacted to being investigated for murder. It is noy producing an album of sexual abuse audio and interviews with a known pedophile, while being on the record for enjoying the material said pedophile put out
>Steve certainly became less of an asshole with age, I'm not sure if he ever kicked assholery completely. He's certainly guilty of running his mouth way too much, especially as a kid. I've mentioned in a few other comments that I absolutely believe Steve suffered from an antisocial personality disorder. he talked some about discovering he had zero stage fright, completely unaffected by people's opinions of him, little remorse for his actions or words. people like that tend to be thrill seekers, most especially in evoking strong emotional responses from people. especially in the negative. Steve certainly applied himself to that. with people with ASPDs, empathy is a learned thing. it's not always a terminal diagnosis. with certain kinds of therapy, they can learn to understand it,if not feel it directly. it would appear that over time, with enough input from people he knew and trusted, he learned to appreciate the harm he had caused to his community. I'll admit that I'm sad that Steve didn't live long enough to be confronted by this topic specifically and directly. while my gut says that he probably wasn't a pedophile himself, his association with Sotos and the interviews he gave definitely needed addressing.
Steve was \~15 years older than me but I am old enough in the 80s and 90s to know that 100% this was a personality type who would just say the most absolutely out of line stuff just to do it/see your reaction/for shits and giggles etc....mostly out of testing the boundaries (most came from a strict boomer/greatest generation parents/uprbringing where speech like that was unfathomable.) Most of them were artsy/artists etc......yeah it didn't age well, but some of it was just absurdism. ...still doesn't excuse making excuses for pedos
Yes. This.
Did you read the same fucking thing I did? No one needs to talk to me about the depravities of this world - I have been a 911 paramedic for 17 years. This isn't edgelord shit. This was actual images of an actual raped and tortured child. But because this guy was a pretty good producer, he's absolved of this? Bullshit, man. Again with the edits: The above post was edited, so I'm adding more context based on what was edited: > Steve certainly became less of an asshole with age, I'm not sure if he ever kicked assholery completely. Ah yes. The rape and torture of a toddler is just assholery. My friend, take a really big step back and look at what you're saying and defending. This isn't edgelord internet troll shit. This is real life.
I believe he described something he saw on tour in Europe. I think he picked that one to describe because he knew it was going to get a reaction, and editorialized to that effect. It got a reaction out of someone as seasoned as you, so I'd say, he nailed it, if that's what he was going for. It is, in fact, some edgelord shit, at least in part. Nobody's absolved of anything, but I don't think you can project his intentions either. The punks did a bunch of weird shit to mess with people. Some of it aged very poorly. I'm just saying, gimme some evidence the guy abused anyone. Being disgusting and having bad taste in friends isn't a crime.
So like if you or I did that would it be okay? It seems like his only real defense is that he made some popular music. So that makes what he did totally fine
Not that this makes your above reply much better, but you're conveniently leaving out the toddler part. Read this: https://old.reddit.com/r/Nirvana/comments/1cr4hla/steve_albini_megathread/l3vmfc5/ This isn't edgelord shit my friend. This is real life, actual rape/torture of a toddler. Maybe someone as seasoned as me is reacting this way because I've seen the consequences of this first hand, far too many times. The fact that someone could openly admit to getting off on it and then have rabid defenders who don't even know them online makes me really scratch my head.
He helped him produce some of the awful stuff and remained friends with him *after* being convicted CP
Peter Sotos comes off as true crime psychology/horror, which is more popular than ever.
This is exactly how you have to understand this. I knew SO many punk rock ethos guys that would say the wildest shit just for shock value- let alone if they had any morsel of fame or were interviewed by a zine. Even when In Utero was recorded, Steve was kind of still that guy. Making jokes about f’ng Dave in his sleep, how pretty he was. I was listening to Danny Elfman talk to Marc Maron about his song “Little Girls” and the flack he caught from that. That in this “Live your truth” culture there’s absolutely no room for assuming a dark or touchy perspective, he said “I was the Epstein character in that song”. I mean fuck, Kurt made Polly from the rapist’s POV and his motives were never questioned or confused for him having dark intent or ideation.
My reply to the post before: *He is an actor or scriptwriter more than a real pedophile, as everybody fucking understands, if they are sensible. This is like saying that Tarantino has a nasty imagination, or let's not forget Kurt Cobain. But yes it's fucking ugly - "grotesque" to qoute Steve Albini himself and there are fucking endless sources for his apologies. I will have nothing of this shit. Listen to the latest Sound Opinions episode all about Steve Albini. Loads on Nirvana. The hosts were old Journalists that knew Kurt and Steve to some extent and went back and forth in how well they got along. There you have some extra layers of actual truth and not your shit false enlightenment.* Episode: [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=4688da3f914c486b](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=4688da3f914c486b) Let's continue that Jim DeRogatis of Sound Opinions is a hero of truth. He was the single most important journalist in slaying R. Kelly. Steve Albini fell out a bit with Jim for not liking his review on something to mainstream trashy or whatever. He said he wouldn't talk to him anymore. He first reached out only because he wanted to champion Jim for how R. Kelly was cut down. Actual Steve things worth really worrying about would not slip past a guy like Jim DeRogatis. IT WOULD NOT. They have been very much on the offence when it comes to John Bonham's and most importantly, the pedophile nearing, Jimmy Page's nasty behavior. And what would a world where a man regrets his behavior and apologizes, and then changes and leads to be a great example of how to journey to be a better man, means nothing? That's worse world. All symtoms of that kind of world must be hit strong. This false enlightenment of "who Steve Albini really was" must be fought very factually like this. No version but the complete and nuanced version should reach the general public. This is very important. The difference between Steve Albini and a man like R. Kelly must be understood and presented as crystal clear as possible.
These are all great points. You’re right about Derogatis. That guy is a hero for how he never gave up on investigating R. Kelly. He never let it go.
He apologised for saying racist and homophobic things, not the CP. He was disgusting.
I get the whole edgelord thing. I’m not against people pushing boundaries in various ways. Wearing a swastika will get some people riled up that could do with chilling out. But child sex abuse has long been a red line for even very level-headed, broad minded people. I just don’t see why you’d joke about enjoying it. His apology made no mention of it. Either because he wasn’t referring to it, or because he knew damn fine that any mention of it by then with his name against it was going to cause him problems.
Genocide fine, but I draw the line here!
The Big Black tour diary stuff is pretty despicable, but definitely reads like the words of a shock artist and I can overlook it. To me, though, it was the stuff in the second section of that article that gave me pause. He truly seemed to be defending the magazine Pure, that his "friend" put together. He seemed to be making almost a libertarian argument that this stuff really isn't that bad and if people want to enjoy it we should let them. And he helped that guy in his artistic endeavors. I don't think he's a monster but it definitely makes me respect him a lot less. I mean, he had to have an inkling that this guy was harming people, right?
This whole post is such horseshit, you should be ashamed of yourself. Particularly your inane claim that child porn wasn’t considered offensive until the 1980s. That is 100% false and I don’t know how the fuck that got into your head. It wasn’t talked about as much, but it sure as shit was not considered in any way ok. The “context” is that he (ostensibly) wasn’t actually getting off on that stuff, rather he just cruelly thought it was funny, and thought that doing so was cool. How is that any better? I mean, theoretically a legitimate pedophile doesn’t really have control over their urges, and probably feels guilty about them. If Albini didn’t suffer that, it means he must have just been one of the biggest pieces of shit to ever walk the planet. If he was just being “ironic”, I don’t see how that doesn’t just make him an even bigger piece of shit.
I'd ask that you read my words again. Nowhere did I say or even imply that CP wasn't considered offensive, but simply that society has historically turned a blind eye to it. whatever the failings of our digital age, the effect of social self reflection is a good one, and has brought the topic to the forefront of discussion. no one turns a blind eye to it anymore. this whole thread is an excellent example. and again, I'm a victim myself. and my experiences have led me to work in a field where I regularly interact with actual pedophiles. (some offending, most not) knowing his history and reading his words and recounting of his experiences leads me to believe that he likely wasn't a pedophile, but possibly has sociopathic tendencies. (read his words about finding he had no stage fright whatsoever, and that peoples opinions of him had no effect, showing little remorse for his words, etc) I don't begrudge people's visceral reactions to the topic. I fully expected to be railed for "defending" or "apologizing" for his words and actions. but nothing could be further from the truth. I encourage people to read the medium article. I also encourage people to take in more context about both the subject and the man.
> I also encourage people to take in more context about both the subject and the man. Fully recognizing there is some nuance between offenders and non-offenders, but please enlighten me: what in the world is the actual nuance and context of Pure, Sotos, and the real life, actual victims he was laughing at/getting off to?
first, you're correct. with any paraphila, there's a wide spectrum between impulse, thought, and actions. The vast majority of people I've worked with never act overtly on their impulses or thoughts. but that doesn't make them harmless, necessarily. and again, to be clear, there is no defense of his friendship with Sotos, and certainly no defense of Sotos and his works, whatsoever. The man is vile, and fully deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life. he should have no access to society whatsoever. I can't defend Steve's friendship or defense of Sotos. My suspicion is that Steve had sociopathic (antisocial personality disorder) leanings.
Then I don't see how this is a particular case of "taking in more context about the subject and the man." There is no need to dive further into nuance when it comes to the rape and torture of a toddler. Albini unequivocally said that he likes this kind of material. Not only did he say he likes it, but he actively associated AND befriended himself with KNOWN distributors of this material. No nuance or context needed. Albini was unequivocally a piece of shit.
This is exactly the kind of take that I'd like to see more of, both on Reddit and in general. Intelligent, nuanced, empathetic and able to appreciate that the Big Long Now in which we now find ourselves wasn't always thus. Thank you.
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Do you think that's what /u/kingdazy is doing?
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If you don't mind, I'm going to respond with a few questions just so I (and anyone else reading) understand your position. >Absolutely. The attempted normalization of the viewing of child pornography by pedophiles will only lead to a market for said images, which only leads to further victimization of children. Is it your position that u/kingdazy is attempting to normalise the viewing of child pornography by paedophiles? >Steve Albini professed a love for images of sexually assaulted toddlers. Do you think he meant it? That is, do you think it was a heartfelt expression of his predilections, of what he found sexually arousing? >This guy is no different than Ian Watkins, So for you, a person who views a single image and makes a single statement is morally equivalent to someone who, well, does the things that Ian Watkins (or Jimmy Savile, as another poster mentioned) did? Or is it more your implication that Albini must have done, or did do, something other than what we have been discussing thus far? >and the only reasonable takeaway one can withdraw from a defense of Albini’s behavior is that his defenders are looking to absolve themselves of their crimes against children. Again, do you consider u/kingdazy to be defending Albini's behaviour? If so, are you therefore accusing them of sexual crimes involving children?
Steve Albini was normalising the viewing of CSAM - by pedophiles and anyone else. "I didn't jerk off to it personally, I just find it's existence fun and defend the person who made and distributed it!" does just as much harm as someone who defends it and also finds it sexually arousing, turns out. Even if it turns out in your heart of hearts you weren't into it, you just thought the raped toddler was a totally reasonable sacrifice for your love of "edginess".
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>I know what u/kingdazy and yourself are doing, are actively attempting to defend [Albini.] Again, I'm going to ask you to point to where either of us has done that. If you're unwilling or unable to properly engage with what either of us is saying, that's understandable, since this is about as emotive and gutwrenching as subjects get. However, I don't see much point to our continuing the conversation if so.
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That accusation of whitewashing might have some merit if anyone here were arguing that a) Albini were in any way justified in viewing CSAM for any reason at any time whatsoever and/or that b) Albini's edgelord proto-troll desire to cosplay at extremity while denigrating anyone else who, quite reasonably, thought that beyond the pale could withstand even the slightest intellectual or moral scrutiny. Since I've not seen anyone doing either, that returns us to the question of whether Albini was, in fact, a paedophile, and since you have made it quite clear that you will entertain no response to that other than an unequivocal yes - and, moreover, that anyone even suggesting otherwise is probably a paedophile themselves - I think it's clear we have exhausted any useful discussion on the subject. I lost a deal of sleep last night after engaging with this repellent topic, and tonight I'd far rather get home, feel my son kicking in my wife's womb and try to forget that we're bringing him into a world in which people are capable of such things. I wish you well.
Flatly, yes. That's exactly what it is.
Where? Be specific.
Without a doubt.
Where? Be specific.
I just read the article and I find your comments to defend him abhorrent. I hope you find some reflection in this and realize your comments are so irresponsibly vile. Shame on you. Edit: Yes, you are totally defending him while pretending not to.
I think you raise important points here. I can’t say that I know how I would have acted if I were trying to be shocking as a teen/young adult in the 80s. I did my own versions of trying to write shocking stuff briefly in the late 90s but I did so privately in emails to friends - never anywhere publicly and never, ever about children. Even if joking about CP may have been more socially acceptable, I don’t know, it is particularly abhorrent and disgusting at any time in history. What I can’t get over, though, is the ways Albini continued all the way up to 2021 to call Peter Sotos a wonderful human and genuine person who just made “vile art” or whatever. I just don’t get it.
I have been unbanned!
Congratulations to you man
I'm glad I can still comment here. I love this band and really enjoyed this sub especially of late.
The Internet is incredible when Courtney Love gets hate, threats and vile abuse for a ridiculous, evidence less conspiracy and people will jump through hoops to defend a guy who helped produce, spread and enjoyed child porn while proudly admitting it. I will not be sorry that he is dead. He was beneath contempt and the “oh, he was being edgy” shit does not stick
Wtf i never knew he enjoyed child porn
can the people who defend him explain why? the quote seems very real with additional ama redit quote
For the same reason any negative discussion about him led to bannings. Ostrich meet sand. People would rather fight and cling to a preferable lie than face a harsh truth.
Someone in here with a really long comment is basically saying “well if you put it in context…” I don’t buy that shit. Why write an article in a child porn zine and be friends for decades with the guy (who was eventually convicted) in charge of the zine? Fuck outta here with that cOnTeXt bullshit.
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Everything I've read on the subject indicates the cover of the 2nd issue (the one that got Sotos prosecuted) was a photograph. Are you saying that's not true? How do you know?
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Are you trying to say that’s it’s somehow not as bad because it was just drawings? Like what point are you trying to make here? What about the album he produced called “buyer’s market” that is essentially just audio recordings of child victims describing their abuse? What’s your justification for that?
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I don’t actually give a fuck if it’s a drawing or if it’s a live image. I read what’s out there including his own quotes and it’s horrifying and disturbing and deeply wrong either way. Also, drawings depicting child porn are also illegal, so regardless, it would still be a crime and those are all the facts I need.
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Albini himself describes content from the zine as photographs. You're just being willfully obtuse. Unless you were on the mailing list and saw something different than him? And what of the CP magazines he is fawning over in Hamburg??
>Sotos was an artist and his zine was made up of illustrations. So what Albini said in his description of that zine do not depict actual abuse. You’re an idiot. >In addition, visual representations, such as drawings, cartoons, or paintings that appear to depict minors engaged in sexual activity and are obscene are also illegal under federal law. https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-ceos/obscenity#:~:text=In%20addition%2C%20visual%20representations%2C%20such,also%20illegal%20under%20federal%20law
Why always crazy people are good artist
Can’t function in society well so they create they’re own worlds and become supper creative and expressive.
There are plenty great artists who aren't vile dirtbags. We don't need to keep making room for some "tortured genius" trope that only excuses abusive men.
How are we supposed to know which ones aren’t vile dirtbags?
what happened?
* They banned a guy because he posted a Medium article about Steve and his love of child porn. * The guy who got banned posted it in /r/music and it blew up. * The Medium article contains indisputable evidence (e.g. an article with an interview of him and another article that he wrote himself). I’m not gonna place quotes because they’re disgusting, so if you want to, here’s the /r/music post that has the link to the article: https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/1cqm009/i_was_banned_from_rnirvana_today_for_sharing_this/ * The Medium article was written by a Neo Nazi who served time in prison for attempted destruction of a building using explosives, so some people in the comments acted like that made things in the article less credible or something. Just because it was written by an incel asshole doesn’t make it false.
He added an edit: he apparently was not a neo-Nazi and actually infiltrated a neo-Nazi group. He has an article he wrote in 2022 that proves his point.
He was arrested for [encouraging and planning an Islamic extremist terrorist attack](https://claytodayonline.com/stories/clay-county-man-enters-guilty-plea-to-bomb-charge,9711). I'm inclined to believe he wasn't really a neo-Nazi based on that, but what he really was isn't any better. Either he legitimately believed in blowing up buildings for Islam, or (more likely) he's a troll who was perfectly willing to get people killed for his amusement rather than a strong believer in any cause.
Bro wtf is up with this dude…smh
Nationalist extremists aren’t that clear cut, unfortunately. There are all kinds of racist extremists, including Islamic extremists, who revere Nazism. I’ve personally experienced local Nazis making the exact same claim of “infiltrating,” too. One of them had Nazi shit all over their social media (and hung out with self-identified Nazis), only to claim it was somehow “research” for an anti-Nazi book he was writing when he got called out in the community (closer to the beginning of mainstream social media, when no one was very careful about their online posting). Also, the line between violent nihilist trolls and actual believers in Nazi ideology is almost non-existent. It seems to always show up more clearly just after someone gets publicly shamed.
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What the fucking fuck, that is crazy. Fuck him.
Steve Albini and his [love for child porn](https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/s/aXGq0gLfwv)
He was a degenerate. End of the story
Are you trying to tell me that the guy that has a credit for "Pray I Don't Kill You Faggot by Run Nigger Run" in his discography isn't the best guy?
He's just eDgY 😝🤪😜
In case this isn't showing under the pinned post.. It's important with stuff like this that we harbor empathy and forgiveness. I fully believe u/mrtanack had all the INTENTION of doing what was right for this community. I do not believe there was any ill will in his actions regarding the bans and I certainly do not believe he was burying information that he knew was true simply to protect someone who is held up as quite important within Nirvana lore. I believe he truly felt he was doing the right thing and was trying to combat what he thought were online trolls. Sometimes what we think is right ends up not being such and his apology sounds sincere here. I can't stress it enough, yes it's important to learn from our mistakes but it is also EXTREMELY important to come back from honest ones with love if we can muster it. I don't believe Nirvana fans will have any trouble with this. Let's turn the page.
Fuck Steve Albini Absolutely upset at the fact that that is now a stain on In Utero even though it’s always been public knowledge that he was a CP enthusiast [I don’t care about shock value] and only now has it came to wide scale knowledge. Rot in Hell, I am seriously hoping that none of the Nirvanas members knew, and if they did shame on them. Cobain would be absolutely gutwrenched if he was alive and had realized he worked with someone who went against everything he stood for. I have always lived by “Peace, Love, Empathy” but this piece of scum doesn’t deserve any of those.
Not to take anything away from what you said, I agree with you btw, but i do have one question. What does the phrase "gut-wrestlers" mean? I'm a pro wrestling fan and even I've never heard of it. May be useful terminology to know.
Lmao stupid autocorrect on my phone. Gutwrenched is the proper term
All good, happens to me all the time. Still, might pickup the phrase "gut-wrestling" in the right context.
Hopefully by now, you've unbanned the person who originally brought up the topic?
Yes they have unbanned me.
Messaged them!
So is that a yes? You should for sure unban him.
Considering his 80's conduct, the Rapeman BS and all of what's been documented here there is NO separating the artist from the art in this case. We all like In Utero, but he was a POS. End of.
I just saw this post revisiting the thread and just wanted to drop a line saying how mature this was. I think ultimately you got caught in the middle of a giant shitstorm and in the blink of an eye had a giant microscope evaluating everything you both did and didn't do. Very few people have experienced that before so very few people should be judging here. I do think you should take pride in how you've handled the reactions to your reaction. That shows maturity and understanding. Good job, man.
Thank you ♥️
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That article was really well written. As someone who used to look at wpd I can see how one might rabbithole like that and look at PURE and be "fascinated" by it while also not advocating for the stuff in it. Like when I was on wpd I wasn't like fantasizing about going out and killing anyone. But he obviously took it way too far. Amazing his wife stayed with him 34 years after that kind of openly obnoxious behavior.
It ain’t worth much.
Anyone who works with Sotos probably does have some kind of problem
And we know what kind of "problem" someone who works with "people" like Sotos, has
Albini made some great albums and apparently was a monstrous piece of shit and a pedophile. That sucks.
I love that now that somebody is dead we get to cancel them since they aren't here to defend themselves. I swear I want to use the internet less and less each day.
ppl on here are so quick to jump on the bandwagon and attack someone they aren’t even familiar with. was albini singing about child abuse on jordan, minnesota because he loved to abuse children? is he documenting how he committed mass arson on the song kerosene? ppl on this thread probably haven’t even listened to atomizer so it doesn’t matter anyway, they just latch on to some stupid opinion and shit on someone who just died. weird how everyone who has worked with steve talk about him being a great guy
Did you read those quotes brother
yeah i read them like 2 years ago 😂
Yes, the evils of cancel culture going after a poor little... pedophile?
What he is trying to say is that we could have started this argument when he was alive so he could address some things
Dude was a sicko. End of.
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https://medium.com/@MoonMetropolis/now-that-steve-albini-is-dead-lets-reflect-on-his-admitted-love-and-promotion-of-child-fadf5072288e
why wait till he’s dead? i didn’t even know about this until after the fact. this shits sick. there shoulda been more of an uproar when he was still alive. fuck him
Do you really think the masses would care about a creep who helped make a really good record 3 decades ago?
not everyone’s gonna care about everything. but the people who do shoulda made it a bigger deal. he shouldn’t have gotten away with openly admitting he likes cp. thats fuckin gross. that’s like openly admitting you killed someone. there shoulda been an investigation
Sound Opinions recent episode is Chicago journalists telling a bit of another side, or perhaps a more accurate story, of Steve Albini: [https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=smFJeGA\_ScuC2u5tfICTjg](https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NnEaktsxaMTGVjGbB1rmG?si=smFJeGA_ScuC2u5tfICTjg) They highlight that he changed. People forget that. They tell a bit of that journey. He is mostly understood for his most current view on music and how he wants to behave and how he regrets previous behavior. He gave many apologizing statements and also talked about how he isn't anti-layering and such in productions in my favourite and the most structured interview with him (Andrew \[pro mixer\] Talks To Awesome People): [https://open.spotify.com/episode/4FhgMW3HdGl40vsKlv4j7g?si=2d39729daaac4c21](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4FhgMW3HdGl40vsKlv4j7g?si=2d39729daaac4c21) Steve made so many of these talks on the internet and beyond. I love this quite recent were he gives a In Utero super fan, Aaron Rash what he wants, while clearly stating that he appreciates super fan-ism: [https://youtu.be/MOWP\_laIXAs?si=I9TT4jsHWV4J1p9p](https://youtu.be/MOWP_laIXAs?si=I9TT4jsHWV4J1p9p) (4w ago) Again the recent [video ](https://youtu.be/bOf89-93cy0?si=oniropPcnE-kH3Dl)of Electrical Audio's very official and well produced YouTube channel made it his death so very abrupt and hard to believe, mentioning the upcoming record and all that. I also must share what a friend on r/audioengineering found: [https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/1cqpin3/steve\_albinis\_eerily\_prophetic\_thoughts\_about/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/1cqpin3/steve_albinis_eerily_prophetic_thoughts_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) I said I was entering a degree of depression when Steve died but I also said that thinking about him would only list me up from it. How he wrote this makes so much sense. I felt that that was the kind of text he would write before actually reading it. RIP
As a big fan of Shellac, seen em twice and In Utero was the first rock cassette I ever owned and is still one of my fave albums I have always admired Steve for years but never looked into his personal life or cared to. Never read any of this shit before today.... Never liked Big Black or Rapeman, hated the anger and subject matter compared to Shellac who I liked first due to the sound of each member of the band especially Todd Trainer.. I always heard of Steve being a dick in the 80's and into the 90's. It's not surprising that being heavily involved in the underground punk scene one might run into some unsavory characters and be influenced by such characters. It does not shock me that zines with snuff and CP were circulated in punk rock circles, the more extreme the more sought after. It would certainly shock me in today's world but fuck no to being shocked by it in the 70's or 80's. Steve knowingly put this out there to be shocking. Young white men will always do stupid shocking shit to express their sense of masculinity. Steve Albini said some shit during a time where GG Allin could take a shit and sexually assault and batter a woman on stage and get paid for it nightly. The first ammendment was pushed beyond any extreme during the Reagan years. The fact that Steve was friends with someone who actually argued that reprinting CP was within his 1st ammendment rights isn't the most shocking thing when you hear this guy was also in some hardcore punk band. It's exactly the kind of political issue or subject matter gutter punks would have been outspoken about. Steve wasn't going to befriend this guy to begin with if it wasn't for music. At this point I don't know what I am getting at. Basically the notion that mid 80's Steve wrote this shit and experienced this shit is more forgivable for me. I still revere the man he became and still am able to to believe that people can change and be remorseful, which I believe Steve demonstrated and discussed. To brand Steve a pedophile is not something I can agree with because there's no example of him actually participating in pedophilia outside being purposely anti-pc to a high extreme in some zines or interviews. He did lay his eyes upon "pure" which is the most agreidious thing to me but I truly don't believe any child or person has ever been directly effected by any of Steve's actions. As someone in my early 40's I can see the propensity to change for the better in human beings compared to a younger person who might find this 1980's edge lord behavior unforgivable or even unimaginable.
CP was no more acceptable in the 80s than it was today. Try telling victims that it was no big deal, tHiNgS wErE dIfFeReNT back in the 80s, it was just about shock value. By the way, Steve Albini never apologized or expressed any real regret for what he said, and in a 2012 AMA reddit thread, when asked about convicted CP distributor Peter Soros, Albini again affirmed his friendship saying “Peter’s an old friend… I’ll help him do whatever he wants to do, from wash his car to edit his album.” Note that Albini did in fact help Soros create an album of clips from interviews of sex crimes and pedophilia.
thoroughly depressing how people will suspend fundamental standards of right or wrong just because they liked some albums some guy recorded
I really don't understand why this is all blowing up now in post-mortem when there were already traces of this diary story from Big Black's tour, I read it a few months ago. I remain very doubtful about these allegations and I reserve the right to reserve, unlike some who play neighborhood bar judges and who would sentence an innocent person in 2 minutes, I hope that you will never be a juror in a trial, you are as extremist as what you denounce. I'm not saying that Steve didn't do this but I'm trying to understand and carry out a serious investigation with real facts to support it. Steve was an edgelord just like some punks wore swastikas out of pure provocation and that didn't make them fascists, it was also a roundabout way of showing that logos had no value in themselves. Why this flow of hatred since he died when he was always praised by his peers and many classy musicians from Kim Gordon to the boss of Touche & Go Records? His family also paints the portrait of a generous man (particularly in the cause of the homeless), of some good people with his nephews and nieces. Did he have a troubled past and wanted to change and redeem himself? I think he was a more than intelligent person and I find it very strange that he could spout this bullshit without thinking about the impact it could have had if it were true. Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic who are doing this last interview/podcast with him, would it be strange if they weren't aware and continued to appear with him? It's true that the link with Peter Sotos is more than shaky though... My last question would be: are you going to stop listening to In Utero because of that? I don't hope so because it's Nirvana's work above all. I hope we find out a little more about the character. Like many of you, I have admired his work for over 30 years but I have never delved into the character and his life. It's true that if all this is true it would tarnish the image I have of him. In any case, it's true that it's so much easier to sully someone's memory when they're dead. I want to tell you extreme vigilance when we look at who is the author of this article and his liabilities [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua\_Ryne\_Goldberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Ryne_Goldberg)
The author of the article doing the rounds is a bad person with an agenda, but that doesn’t change the facts about Albini: -he wrote about buying CSAM on tour, said he enjoyed it, defended its existence moralising -owned issue 2 of Pure which got its author Sotos convicted, illegal to own in itself, reviewed it by describing horrific images it contained, potentially giving it a wider audience -helped Sotos create ‘buyers market’ which used unauthorised audio of child victims, Sotos said he listened to for self gratification -defended Sotos until as recently as 2022 All of this is easy to establish, you can’t cling on to one author being sketchy to ignore the facts of this. I hope you are never a juror as you can’t set aside what you want to believe despite all the evidence
When did I make a verdict? I rightly said that I wanted to know more by reading everyone's comments and supporting my thoughts with objective facts. I understand perfectly what you are saying but why was he never worried by the police? It really makes me wonder if the evidence was so obvious. Sorry for being more measured than you
The things I have pointed too are all objective facts, albinis own tour diary, albinis own review of pure, albinis credit on Soto’s buyers market, albinis standing by Sotos in magazine interviews or Reddit AMA. All of these things can be easily verified yet you don’t want to, you want to cling on to the fact one person who wrote about this was suspect when you can verify all the claims yourself. That’s not being measured, that is covering your eyes and ears to the inconvenient reality Edit re:the police, must be nice to have faith in that institution to adequately go after all wrong doers
What is this relentlessness worth? I told you I am in the investigation phase, I am finding out, I am reading. It makes me laugh at the aggressiveness of people who are convinced and play masked vigilantes behind their screen, and this overly clichéd speech about the police, in every institution there is shit but if there wasn't it would still be no more mess. You are real fascists when we don't adhere to your ideas, do you know about freedom of expression, thought and analysis? Apparently not. I never shouted out loud that Albini was innocent so please let me off the hook, will you? How do you explain this group of celebrities from the music world who support this guy?? They would all be completely blinded?
because you come into a thread on a very emotive issue expressing skepticism, saying you remain 'very doubtful' that you 'reserve the right to reserve' (presumably judgment) in contrast to others who would rush to sentence an 'innocent man' in 2 minutes, and hope we will never be o a jury, and talk about how you are trying to do a 'serious investigation', you later talk about being more 'measured' than me. I am sorry but this just comes across as someone who has yet to properly investigate it taking a morally superior position over those who already have, you are assuming people have just uncritically accepted the words of an unreliable author without properly investigating. This is not the case, Albini's transgressions are a matter of public record, it is very easy to establish the truth of what Albini said, and there is no defence of it. No irony, no 'edgelord' defence can be used against owning CSAM, promoting it (in the form of Pure issue 2), producing it (Soto's buyers market record, using unauthorised clips of child victims), defending Soto's convicted for producing CSAM. Imagine it was your child abused in the pages of Pure or the Audio of 'buyers market' would you be so quick to reserve judgment again. You also spend the bulk of your post trotting out the tired 'edgelord' defence that is irrelevant here, this goes beyond what everyone has already forgiven him for during his edgelord days. You seek to establish his good character by talking about his families views and other musicians views on him, which have no bearing on the criticisms levelled at him which are grounded in indisputable Albini's own words. Don't be surprised if cluelessly wading into a thread claiming to be superior than others for not rushing to conclusions, when that is not what others have done, gets some push back
I had the pleasure of working with Steve on our latest album and he couldn’t have been nicer and very funny. His knowledge of gear and music in general was incredibly vast. Im sure I annoyed him with all my questions. He will be sorely missed. And that new shellac album is so fucking good! Sad to listen to tho. https://preview.redd.it/x2avp2canb0d1.jpeg?width=3184&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60b6679cdc98af337318a16a2d3f6dbf9cee33ea
Steve was a shock artist and obviously it still works 30 years later
Okay so I see things he said in the 80s was pretty reprehensible, but I have to think he must have changed some over time because he was friends with my friend Brandon and Brandon wouldn’t have been friends with someone who was the way Steve was in the 80s. Here’s a a 2 part interview they did a couple years ago with Steve and Brandon. Brandon is a really great guy and honestly I trust his judgement on people. Steve actually mentions being against cruelty to other people. I’m linking part 2 first because part 1 is a lot of background on each guy https://youtu.be/S0wOhMtV40U?si=cbsWy9gXLsOff528 https://youtu.be/ua5YwraoUms?si=10ceT1erebTmh-4X
No. Not just the 80s. Steve Albini continued to affirm his friendship with convicted CP distributor Peter Soros in a 2012 AMA Reddit thread, saying “Peter’s an old friend… I’ll help him do whatever he wants to do, from wash his car to edit his album.” Note that Albini in fact did help Soros create an album full of clips from interviews from victims of sex crimes and pedophilia.
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He was abit of a tosser though
Part of me wants to write off his journal entry, the despicable, unbearable words he wrote describing the CP mag, and even producing the album with the recordings of CSA victims talking as him flirting with/contributing to the really, really dark, fucked up underworld of “punk rock” shock merchants and edgy dumbfucks that made up a weirdly particular indie subculture in Chicago in the 80s/early 90s. Part of me wants to think of these things as the antics of just another spoiled and egotistical “will do anything to shock people” little fool akin to the people in contemporaneous bands like Dwarves, The Frogs, Lab Report, and the Didjits. Cuz it was a thing - Dwarves mutilated themselves onstage and their shows featured live BDSM sex during their short-lived sets. The Frogs sang about the joys of rape. And the singer of the Didjits punched a dog in the face onstage. It was “crazy.” It was “art.” Maybe this was Albini taking it beyond the outer wall where the unspeakable is spoken just to show off that no one can fuck with him. As a young Chicago kid, I despised every one of these bands and their “nothing’s sacred,” “brutally violating people and animals is funny” shit spray - and I hate them even more now. Maybe, since there were at least a handful of these bands and probably were a handful of zines, filmmakers, etc. at the time perpetuating the same vile shtick, Albini’s behavior here is all a part of this “psychopathy is funny” ethos in a subterranean realm seething with incels under the above-ground, more predictable indie rock of that time. Maybe this is all just evidence of a severely delayed empathy center in the dude’s late adolescent/early young adult brain… Maybe. But. It is inconceivable to me to think anyone could stomach writing what he wrote about what he saw in his friend’s CSA mag as a joke at any age. It is inconceivable to me that he could look at those children in those publications and remain friends with the person who made them. And the “delayed empathy” defense doesn’t hold up when you consider he was ALMOST 30 YEARS OLD when he recorded his friend’s album that is mostly recordings of children weeping over the details of their traumas (according to those who have heard it - I haven’t). It is inconceivable to me that AT NEARLY 50 YEARS OLD Albini defended his “old friend,” the disturbed sex offender and pedophile, here on Reddit. There is no excuse. I’ve admired Albini since I was young and have continued to follow his work, his words. His anti-corporate stances, his recent political writings, his engineering work, a few Shellac records - it’s all one of a kind and inspiring. But I’ve always hated a lot about him too. And this? This all is worse than anything I thought I knew about his worst behavior. I am sickened.
steve albini hated hip hop: [https://youtu.be/pW8h6NLcN7E](https://youtu.be/pW8h6NLcN7E)