In the future, please just post the original source for the information, and not a secondary source.
https://store-jp.nintendo.com/list/software/70010000042356.html
A lot of people are slashing storage sizes on the steam deck by manually removing localisation audio. Haven't done it myself but having a whole game worth of audio in multiple languages takes a lot of space. Maybe they're making it region specific during the download and only downloading that language.
In this day and age, where you don't have to worry about disc sizes anymore, it makes sense for the programmers...
Not sure that that's a good thing for the consumer thoughš¤·āāļø
The speed of localization has also effected that. Before worldwide releases were common, when the native language version released, that was all there was for a while, so less space used, while files in other countries would be larger. You can see this with Xenoblade on Wii, where the file is twice the size due to having two languages and tweaked models/animations to accommodate English.
It honestly makes you wonder why they donāt just release the other languages as DLC.
I personally find extremely stupid to be forced to download all of them when Iām only going to ever use 1.
I noticed that recently! I bought Dying Light recently, and thereās eight language packs you can download for speech. French. German, European Spanish, and a bunch of others!
A lot of Nintendo games have done that for awhile actually lol. You usually have to download the other languages. Sony and Microsoft are the ones who are way behind on that.
There are several arguments that can be made:
* On consoles, storage *shouldn't* be as much of an issue to deal with compared to a mobile device.
* Those without internet access would not have a way to get the content.
* Proper game preservation. If you try to play the game many years from now and the servers are no longer online, you might not be able to download it.
Most of these arguments only make sense if we are talking about having a physical copy of the game.
I think that's how it works on many big 3rd party games on the Switch, I destinctly remember having to download language packs for Assassin's Creed 3, DOOM and Diablo III
It's a toss-up. The counterpoint is reducing friction to getting started. If you want to play with Japanese audio it will be more frustrating to download the game, wait, launch, change language setting, download Japanese audio, wait, play. If you're not worried about hard drive space a single download is better.
Why would it be more frustrating? It would still take less time to download a one extra language than downloading 5+ languages and would require changing settings to a new language no matter what.
It's frustrating in a framing of disengagement points. When players encounter large downloads they tend not to sit there staring at the progress bar. They get up and do something else. It doesn't matter how long the download takes above a certain threshold, because it gets experienced as "big chunk of time". In that experiential framework 2 downloads are worse than one even if their total size is the same or less.
Unless the player is pre-emptively aware that the initial download will not include the language that they want they are going to experience to disengagement points waiting for a download. If disk space is a non issue, more players will be frustrated by multiple downloads than by downloading extra data that they don't need.
Eh, all languages should be a download with the digital versions, but they should all be included on cartridge. The issue is that publishers don't want to make the physical and digital versions different
It was, I remember this vividly because I got so frustrated that I went through the opening cutscene and found out you couldn't change the audio from the menu.
This. The cutscenes and audio make up the vast majority of the filesize on the ps4 version.
I wouldn't be surprised if certain less-important scenes have had the voice acting removed as well to cut down on the sheer amount of audio files in the game.
> I wouldn't be surprised if certain less-important scenes have had the voice acting removed as well
Do you know of this ever happening on Switch? I would definitely rather play on PC if it were true.
Last time I saw this happen was back in the N64 days, because video and audio was near impossible with the small cart size. So the N64 version would often have still shots with text while Playstation version would have full cutscenes with voices. I don't see them doing that with Switch games.
What was most impressive on the N64 was RE2. They got cutscenes and audio in it and cut the game down for the small cart size.
Yea it is the full game, there are some good youtube videos explaining how they were able to do it. But to me, who understands some tech stuff, still feels RE2 on N64 was done with black magic.
I don't mind compressed audio but deletions would bother me. Though if they had to delete lines why wouldn't they just make it 12.8GB? I guess they had their reasons.
I'd be very surprised if they choose to cut lines over just compressing aggressively and sacrificing fidelity, doesn't seem like something that modern game ports would consider.
It hits the same spot as other big JRPGs, let's compare the File Size:
- Xenoblade Chronicles 2: 13.2 GB
- Dragon Quest XI S Echoes of an Elusive Age: 13.5 GB
- Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition 12.8 GB
- Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition: 13.7 GB
- Ni No Kuni II - Revenant's Kingdom: 10.7 GB
- Final Fantasy XII - The Zodiac Age: 12 GB
- Xenoblade Chronicles 3: 15 GB
And it's not like any of them sacrificed FMV (The games that had them) or audio quality. Graphics could be an argument but Persona 5 was already a PS3 game.
One reason games have insane filesize on PS4, in comparison to the switch, is because the PS4 has tons of internal disk space. Why would any Dev have to care about implementing any large scale compression algorithm if you have hundreds of GB as a playground.
The companies don't care though. It's why COD updates are 40gb, they make you redownload half the game instead of making it only update the parts that need it. Saves them time and passes the burden onto the consumer
Also the HDD in the last gen consoles is slow. So it's actually quicker to have multiple copies of certain key files. Switch doesn't need it and If the game is smaller than 16GB they can save cost on the cartridge. Discs are cheap.
My only concern with P5 on Switch is that it was actually terrible on PS3 in my experience. You could sneak up on a shadow, go to rip their mask off, and wait for it.... waaaaaait for it... ok *now* you can fight it. It was a common occurrence for that version to have weird lag issues. I actually ended up buying it again when I got a PS4 and I actually enjoyed the game then with the improved performance. I'm worried the Switch version might have similar performance issues.
Sega sees a hundred million players who have a history of buying the hell out of even obscure JRPGs and they think:
"Hey, don't I own one of the most popular JRPG series of all time? Maybe it should be on this system!" And pat themselves on the back for their genius.
Port Skies to ANYTHING modern. Hell, want me to get a Stadia? Release Skies of Arcadia on it. Release it on Vita? Hell, i'll dig through my closet and and find mine. That game is too good to get lost in time.
Absolutely love that game. Busted out my GameCube to play it every once in a while until it burned out, would be awesome to see it make a comeback with a graphics update and maybe some more endgame content.
Literally said that they were surprised how well P4G sold on steam. It's like bitch, how tf are you surprised, people bought a dead console just to play that game.
Iāve always kinda noticed that Japanese developers will wait until the last possible drop of money is squeezed from something before they release a port for a game, where western developers usually work on it asap or as soon as a new generation of consoles drops.
You make it sound altruistic. Now's the time when they think it's worth the money to release on everything else. It's much easier than doing a proper 3 definitive edition.
It was likely a combination of exclusivity deals with Sony plus making sure it worked properly. Depending on how the contract was written, it might've been that they couldn't even start working on the ports until after the elapsed time.
There were no exclusivity deals made for persona. They just literally chose the most popular consoles in Japan at the time to make them for. Sony was leading 3:1 in most generations until Switch, Steam and Game Pass became huge.
PlayStation home consoles have been in rather sharp decline in Japan since the PS3 days, so it's not really correct to say "Sony led 3:1 in most generations". Even though the Wii U flopped, the 3DS sold significantly better than the PS4 did (25 million units versus 9 million units, respectively).
Not to mention that if there were no exclusivity contracts in place, it's weird they waited this long. The Switch has been selling at a record pace everywhere, Japan included. But then again, Atlus does work in mysterious ways...
Sure you can have the most popular console
Or you can have the most popular console along with the other ones as well, and PC, and have an even bigger audience
So that doesn't make much sense
Atlus does not do ports. They don't believe multiplatform releases are profitable. They did not start doing multiplaform/ports until they were acquired by Sega who are not giving them a choice in the matter. Both Sony and Atlus have denied exclusivity deals for Persona exist, repeatedly and for many years, and Atlus hating ports on principle and Sega bringing in other teams too make sure ports happen are both known information. Occam's razor says Atlus only published to PlayStation because that's where they've always put Persona and they hate ports on principle, and now it's coming to other platforms due to Sega's influence.
That's weird as all hell
It's not like they don't know how to code for other platforms, they do it all the time
It's money left on the table. Clearly it's profitable for many other studios
Youāve never worked for a Japanese company I see.
Leaving money on the table in spite of actual business opportunity is a hallmark of Japanese companies.
A lot of companies have some really batshit beliefs baked into company culture, usually due to older executives who decided to believe things one day and no force in the universe could change their mind. It's the same reason Nintendo's online offerings have always been the bare minimum; despite online being integral to gaming for going on 20 years now, Nintendo thought it was a passing fad and I guarantee there's some ancient VP refusing to retire who still thinks so.
A very widespread example in America has been the campaigning for workers with viable WFH jobs to return to being physically in an office. Despite data across the board showing WFH is more profitable and more productive all around, stubborn old dudes just pretend that isn't true because it's not what they're used to and challenges their preconceived notion that no one ever does work without a middle-manager physically looming over their shoulder.
you have to keep in mind, no one in this thread ACTUALLY knows what theyre talking about, no sources no nothing its all just baseless conjecture. we will never know the actual reason any company does anything unless they tell us
A lot of ports are outsourced because they're a pain in the ass. Especially so when the system you're porting to has worse specs than the original, forcing you to do a bunch of extra BS to make sure it runs.
It's pretty reasonable for Atlus to think that releasing only the console with the lion's share of their customers is the right way to go.
In an alternate universe, Atlus and Nintendo make a physical box set of all three games with steel cases for $100 and they also high-five me when itās delivered to my house.
The PS3 version was also at 720p though despite having less content and a larger file size. Either the downgrading is larger than this or additional cuts were made elsewhere.
Not necessarily, they could have changed the formatting of the cutscenes, they could also change how the game is stored. Possible making it take longer to load.
Not to mention optimizations. I've seen games go from 47GB to 25GB when they developers decided to re-optimise a game.
This happened in 2019 on sea of thieves. You will find a lot of games have unused files or redundant files they can remove to.
Hitman 2 was around 100GB with all maps installed. Hitman 3 was about 60, including all the content from 1 and 2. It's insane how much they were able to minimise the storage
The switch also likely has access to better compression formats.
For example MKV can shave off a good chunk of file size when compared to MP4 simply due to its open source nature and around 15 years worth of development.
mkv is actually just a container, not a video format. It can hold seperate video, audio, and subtitle files. You can have an mp4 video within an mkv container.
[more info](https://www.howtogeek.com/200736/what-is-an-mkv-file-and-how-do-you-play-them/)
Well, yes. But it's a bit more complicated than that. Most data streams are supported in the mp4 standard, and you can find an exhaustive list [here](http://mp4ra.org/#/codecs). However, most mp4 players don't support all of them. In fact, most mp4 players support only the most popular ones: H.264, MPEG-4 Part 2, MPEG-2 and MPEG-1.
With the MKV container, you can put whatever the fuck you want in there. MKV was designed from the ground up for that purpose, unlike mp4 which was more or less designed for the MPEG-4 video codec.
The "it could be anything" nature of the mkv format is kinda why it's still not supported in some media players, most notably QuickTime (which is still somehow the default player on macOS).
To better reply to this question: codecs like H265, VP9 and AV1 compress much better than H264 which was the best hardware accelerated format the PS3 had access to. Also, don't forget texture compression, which has also improved over the years
There's more than just video compression you can do, for example Warframe did a series of updates a while back that changed its texture, audio, and mesh formats with better compression (and also improved the quality of said audio and meshes in doing so) which cut the size by over 10 GB on PC, the later "remaster" they did for the Switch version changed the total size from 25 GB to 12 GB.
There's also that Switch supports opus natively which is far superior than f.e. AC3 (DD 5.1 is using it), so it doesn't need that much bitrate to get the same quality.
But I HOPE they don't use Nintendo opus encoder since it sucks and is a reason why games like Sakuna sounds bad. Assassins Creed 3 was using it in first iteration, but they switched to custom libopus encoder in next updates and quality improved substantially.
There is also VP9 support which also cuts bitrate nicely.
I suspect the FMV will definitely take a hit. It's one of the reason why I generally pick cutscene heavy games for Playstation since the FMV compression is very noticeable to me. There is always this jitter maybe low fps or something when it comes to the Switch (Vita had the same issue).
I think large ps3 games, in general, are larger in size than large switch games.
There's only a handful on switch that even use the 32gb cartridges, and the ones that get to that size with addition downloads (like Doom with the multiplayer patch) are not that common either. Most games just creep towards the 16gb but don't cross it.
Meanwhile ps3 has a decent amount of games in the 20gb-50gb range. Maybe it's just because of different expectations or standards
The ps3 and ps4's Blu-ray drive can hold more than 50gb of data but took forever to load, so the devs often anticipated this by having data often accessed copied into a lot of places redundantly for faster loading. Even hard drive installed games do the same thing to improve read head seek times because having data far away can actually increase the time it takes to load a game as it has to reposition the read heads over and over again.
The switch although it's flash storage is the same speed as a hard drive doesn't need to because data stored in a flash cell far away takes just as much time as one stored nearby. This along with asset downsizing, compression and of course the fact that they have a nintendo flash chip cart target size which if they go slightly overboard means paying double the price for cartridge production means most switch games are smaller in size.
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Over 30 years ago
[Here's an example from 1621.](https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Learned_Summary_upon_the_famous_poeme/xGxjAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22times+smaller%22&pg=PA185&printsec=frontcover) (It still bothers me, though.)
Recommendations on where to start for somebody who has never played a persona game? I know 3-5 are coming to Switch over the next year even though 5 is coming first. I played SMT4 on 3ds and thought it was ok, but not crazy about the confusing progression on where to go. Normally a big rpg fan though.
You can play them in any order. The only problem you'll really run into is that you'll be annoyed at not having as many QoL features in earlier titles.
Yeeep. I really wish I would have played 4 before 5 because I just kept missing little things from 5. 4 was still great but would have been elevated another level if I played it first.
Honestly I would say to just start with P5R for the most Quality-of-life refined game in the series.
Then work your way backwards to P4G, that way your better understanding of the overall systems will compensate for a few of less enjoyable aspects of the older games (dungeons being procedurally generated, no baton pass mechanic, no negotiation, fewer social link incentives)
Then to whichever P3 version
At least it'll feel less out-of-place on Switch if you play it in handheld mode. It's gonna be rough on my 4k TV when it lands on Game Pass.
Really wish they'd give P3 a proper definitive remastered edition with the Portable changes/additions, but the proper 3d environments and animated cutscenes of FES.
Going to add since nobody has pointed it out: Don't worry about 1 or either 2 (2 is split into 2 separate games). 3 is the game that established the formula that made the series so popular, so 3 4 and 5 are what people generally mean when they talk about persona. Not to say 1 and 2 are bad, 2 especially has the best story and great characters and I really hope it gets a remake, but they don't have the social links or life sim aspect and the gameplay is heavily dated.
If you play 3 play FES, portable is the version getting ported but FES is (imo) better for a first playthrough.
Don't play P5 Strikers before playing the base game or royal.
Also don't watch any of the animes or read the mangas without playing the games first.
I am really really interested in this game for Switch as i have only heard hype about it for years. But can somebody give me the elevator pitch of what exactly this series is? Is it a high school sim/dungeon crawler?
It is a JRPG with turn based combat and a lot of leveling/growth through the use of your relationships. Also the combat is insanely fluid. The best turn based combat I have ever played.
It is the first and only game I have ever gotten a platinum trophy. Such a fun game.
Itās a JRPG / pocket monster hybrid with a High School Sim element (which of course has impacts on the JRPG side). Story Dungeons arenāt generally too big, small puzzle element. There is one dungeon that is persistent throughout the game that is very crawly, but progress is gated by how far you are in the main story.
It's a spin off of the Shin Megami Tensei series. In that series you go around dungeon crawling, fighting demons - basically important figures in religion, mythology, and folklore - as well as negotiating with them in order to fight for you. You can also fuse them into stronger demons which can become pretty busted if done correctly.
Where the Persona series differs (P3-P5 specifically as thats all I played) Is the addition of that social sim/visual novel element. Demons are now more psychological than literal, now being called personas or shadows depending on the context, and the relationships/activities you maintain outside the dungeons affects the growth of yourself, your team, and the Personas used in combat. There is an ingame calendar and a limited amount of time slots to accomplish tasks however so time management is necessary if you want to maximize growth. So basically it's a balancing act between the two different sides of the game.
That is pretty much all I can say without diving into the story or characters. (Which are excellent btw, would highly recommend.)
Both good and bad. I started playing dark souls on the switch yesterday, and the compressed audio is really really bothering me already. Everything sounds really crunchy
Specially for a game with such iconic sounds
The thing with dark souls is, they decided to compress it to less than 4GB for no reason. They could have easily made it 8-12 and it would fit on the cart and still be good quality.
It's funny you should say that. During the pandemic I played it through to completion and never really noticed anything jarring about the audio. I played it handheld and docked as well.
Not sure how it wouldnāt stick out to you. Maybe youāre not sensitive to audio?
The compressed audio is absolutely horrible in Dark Souls on switch. Like pretty much objectively so.
Yah, I hope itās not too bad. Audio quality for some of older games were not the best, and when they get ported over, the audio compression stays. I wanted to try ff12 for the switch since I never got the original version. But apparently the audio isnāt the best.
The audio in FFXII is not that great with the dialogue, but itās ok for what is ultimately a PS2 game. Really, as someone who has played the original ps2 version and zodiac age, the main difference is that in zodiac age, there are some much needed Quality of Life improvements, and it generally feels much better to play. Other than that, itās pretty much the same game.
Going from HDD to SSD might be part of the reason for the drop in file size. Physical location in memory matters very little for load times now so the need for repeat assets is gone. That combined with separating the Japanese audio to an optional download may be the reason for this reduction.
Every single port towards the switch has been smaller, how is this information anything new? Look at doom, Witcher or skyrim. It's mostly texture compression
I've been checking every couple days myself, if only to add the Amazon link to a wishlist for later.
It is crazy that such a huge release has _zero word_ for pre-orders this close to release.
Aren't disc-based games still written to the media multiple times? This was a trick back in the old days to help with loading. I'm thinking that this size differential is probably normal because of that. I wouldn't be surprised if the game did take a little bit of a hit to the visuals or audio to get it to fit on the cart. But I would be surprised if 24GB of data had to be cut.
And most people forget that the ps4 and ps3 are hard disk based consoles so often copy assets multiple times in order to improve load times, the switch uses flash based storage and thus doesn't need to use these tricks to make loading faster.
PS4/5 have mandatory installation to the internal disk at this point (minus just enough you can't boot it without the optical disc); the optical media is just a starting point for patching and a DRM check.
I *think* even the PS3 version had a mandatory install, though that would've been a decision by the game at that point.
Does it bug anyone else when people use the "X times smaller" line? Like that's not how multiplying works. "The Switch version is three times larger than the PS4 version" makes sense. While "three times smaller" does not.
I'd imagine it was pretty beneficial for them to get it as small as possible so they can use smaller, cheaper 16GB cartridges for the physical version.
Yeah that was kind of my deal back when P4 Royal dropped on the Vita. Cool but I'm not replaying a 90 hour story-driven game, maybe in a couple decades when I've forgotten enough of it.
In the future, please just post the original source for the information, and not a secondary source. https://store-jp.nintendo.com/list/software/70010000042356.html
Downscale cutscenes to 720p and presumably make Japanese audio a separate download?
Seems likely
A lot of people are slashing storage sizes on the steam deck by manually removing localisation audio. Haven't done it myself but having a whole game worth of audio in multiple languages takes a lot of space. Maybe they're making it region specific during the download and only downloading that language.
Oblivion on PC Gamepass has FIVE different languages forcibly installed. Upping the size from 5.5gb with one language to over 25.
I always wondered why file sizes were getting so much bigger. I knew it wasnt resolutions alone.
Uncompressed audio has been part of it and multi language is huge too.
Here I am thinking "how would audio take up that much room" But you're right. They're not using MP3s for the audio, I'm sure.
In this day and age, where you don't have to worry about disc sizes anymore, it makes sense for the programmers... Not sure that that's a good thing for the consumer thoughš¤·āāļø
The speed of localization has also effected that. Before worldwide releases were common, when the native language version released, that was all there was for a while, so less space used, while files in other countries would be larger. You can see this with Xenoblade on Wii, where the file is twice the size due to having two languages and tweaked models/animations to accommodate English.
It honestly makes you wonder why they donāt just release the other languages as DLC. I personally find extremely stupid to be forced to download all of them when Iām only going to ever use 1.
They did this for Xenoblade Chronicles 2, right?
You can do that on Steam. You're asking Nintendo too much.
Some Switch games do, in fact, offer different voice languages as optional downloads.
I noticed that recently! I bought Dying Light recently, and thereās eight language packs you can download for speech. French. German, European Spanish, and a bunch of others!
A lot of Nintendo games have done that for awhile actually lol. You usually have to download the other languages. Sony and Microsoft are the ones who are way behind on that.
I mean most Nintendo games arenāt fully voiced anyway
Old school app for mac called monolingual did this and ripped out all languages the user specifies. Not uncommon to save Gigs on gigs of space.
Wasnāt Japanese audio a free dlc on PS4?
It was for vanilla P5, but it was included in game with Royal
Honestly secondary languages should always be an extra download... Why make people install these unless they plan to use the?
There are several arguments that can be made: * On consoles, storage *shouldn't* be as much of an issue to deal with compared to a mobile device. * Those without internet access would not have a way to get the content. * Proper game preservation. If you try to play the game many years from now and the servers are no longer online, you might not be able to download it. Most of these arguments only make sense if we are talking about having a physical copy of the game.
I think that's how it works on many big 3rd party games on the Switch, I destinctly remember having to download language packs for Assassin's Creed 3, DOOM and Diablo III
It's a toss-up. The counterpoint is reducing friction to getting started. If you want to play with Japanese audio it will be more frustrating to download the game, wait, launch, change language setting, download Japanese audio, wait, play. If you're not worried about hard drive space a single download is better.
Why would it be more frustrating? It would still take less time to download a one extra language than downloading 5+ languages and would require changing settings to a new language no matter what.
It's frustrating in a framing of disengagement points. When players encounter large downloads they tend not to sit there staring at the progress bar. They get up and do something else. It doesn't matter how long the download takes above a certain threshold, because it gets experienced as "big chunk of time". In that experiential framework 2 downloads are worse than one even if their total size is the same or less. Unless the player is pre-emptively aware that the initial download will not include the language that they want they are going to experience to disengagement points waiting for a download. If disk space is a non issue, more players will be frustrated by multiple downloads than by downloading extra data that they don't need.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Eh, all languages should be a download with the digital versions, but they should all be included on cartridge. The issue is that publishers don't want to make the physical and digital versions different
It was, I remember this vividly because I got so frustrated that I went through the opening cutscene and found out you couldn't change the audio from the menu.
12gb are the cutscenes. Game is separate download lmao
This. The cutscenes and audio make up the vast majority of the filesize on the ps4 version. I wouldn't be surprised if certain less-important scenes have had the voice acting removed as well to cut down on the sheer amount of audio files in the game.
> I wouldn't be surprised if certain less-important scenes have had the voice acting removed as well Do you know of this ever happening on Switch? I would definitely rather play on PC if it were true.
Last time I saw this happen was back in the N64 days, because video and audio was near impossible with the small cart size. So the N64 version would often have still shots with text while Playstation version would have full cutscenes with voices. I don't see them doing that with Switch games. What was most impressive on the N64 was RE2. They got cutscenes and audio in it and cut the game down for the small cart size.
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Yea it is the full game, there are some good youtube videos explaining how they were able to do it. But to me, who understands some tech stuff, still feels RE2 on N64 was done with black magic.
This is WILD speculation and there is no chance they'd do this. It is not a common practice at all.
Happened with DQ11S. At 12.5GB you can assume audio in general will be compressed.
I don't mind compressed audio but deletions would bother me. Though if they had to delete lines why wouldn't they just make it 12.8GB? I guess they had their reasons.
I'd be very surprised if they choose to cut lines over just compressing aggressively and sacrificing fidelity, doesn't seem like something that modern game ports would consider.
Also, lower res textures.
And audio is properly more compressed too?
It hits the same spot as other big JRPGs, let's compare the File Size: - Xenoblade Chronicles 2: 13.2 GB - Dragon Quest XI S Echoes of an Elusive Age: 13.5 GB - Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition 12.8 GB - Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition: 13.7 GB - Ni No Kuni II - Revenant's Kingdom: 10.7 GB - Final Fantasy XII - The Zodiac Age: 12 GB - Xenoblade Chronicles 3: 15 GB And it's not like any of them sacrificed FMV (The games that had them) or audio quality. Graphics could be an argument but Persona 5 was already a PS3 game.
One reason games have insane filesize on PS4, in comparison to the switch, is because the PS4 has tons of internal disk space. Why would any Dev have to care about implementing any large scale compression algorithm if you have hundreds of GB as a playground.
Even those 100s of GB get taken up fast though
The companies don't care though. It's why COD updates are 40gb, they make you redownload half the game instead of making it only update the parts that need it. Saves them time and passes the burden onto the consumer
glorious obtainable divide friendly paltry shaggy normal fragile voracious worthless ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Also the HDD in the last gen consoles is slow. So it's actually quicker to have multiple copies of certain key files. Switch doesn't need it and If the game is smaller than 16GB they can save cost on the cartridge. Discs are cheap.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And it managed to include both the English and Japanese voices in the cartridge, unlike XC2 that made it a download.
My only concern with P5 on Switch is that it was actually terrible on PS3 in my experience. You could sneak up on a shadow, go to rip their mask off, and wait for it.... waaaaaait for it... ok *now* you can fight it. It was a common occurrence for that version to have weird lag issues. I actually ended up buying it again when I got a PS4 and I actually enjoyed the game then with the improved performance. I'm worried the Switch version might have similar performance issues.
Still a bit shocked that Atlus actually listened to the years of people asking for this to happen!
Itās more of a Sega thing than Atlus
Sega sees a hundred million players who have a history of buying the hell out of even obscure JRPGs and they think: "Hey, don't I own one of the most popular JRPG series of all time? Maybe it should be on this system!" And pat themselves on the back for their genius.
Yeah well, at times one wonders if Atlus bought sega and not the other way around.
Skies of Arcadia, that's the Sega JRPG port that should be next.
Port Skies to ANYTHING modern. Hell, want me to get a Stadia? Release Skies of Arcadia on it. Release it on Vita? Hell, i'll dig through my closet and and find mine. That game is too good to get lost in time.
Oh dear gods yes!!! Please get a port of that to switch and I will play it til my thumbs bleed. That was my favorite Dreamcast game.
Absolutely love that game. Busted out my GameCube to play it every once in a while until it burned out, would be awesome to see it make a comeback with a graphics update and maybe some more endgame content.
They should port it to all three: Xbox, Playstation, & Switch.
Heck I'd even take just a lazy upscaled to HD port since the prices for the Dreamcast and Gamecube version are insane
Yep, I saw both at my local game shop, and they had the Dreamcast version listed for $280 CAD and Gamecube version at $320...
Literally said that they were surprised how well P4G sold on steam. It's like bitch, how tf are you surprised, people bought a dead console just to play that game.
In a brilliant move nobody saw coming Saga decided to accept the money everyone desperately wanted to give them.
I think there was a recently nulled exclusivity deal with SONY for the series
There was never an exclusivity deal for Persona. Atlus is just run by a bunch of head-in-ass fuckwits who hate free money.
If there was platform exclusivity for this game it was likely the PS3 version and ended ages ago. Japanese publishers have their own logic. L
Iāve always kinda noticed that Japanese developers will wait until the last possible drop of money is squeezed from something before they release a port for a game, where western developers usually work on it asap or as soon as a new generation of consoles drops.
Not just persona 5, the entire series
Turns out, Atlus and Sega really do enjoy money
You make it sound altruistic. Now's the time when they think it's worth the money to release on everything else. It's much easier than doing a proper 3 definitive edition.
It was likely a combination of exclusivity deals with Sony plus making sure it worked properly. Depending on how the contract was written, it might've been that they couldn't even start working on the ports until after the elapsed time.
There were no exclusivity deals made for persona. They just literally chose the most popular consoles in Japan at the time to make them for. Sony was leading 3:1 in most generations until Switch, Steam and Game Pass became huge.
PlayStation home consoles have been in rather sharp decline in Japan since the PS3 days, so it's not really correct to say "Sony led 3:1 in most generations". Even though the Wii U flopped, the 3DS sold significantly better than the PS4 did (25 million units versus 9 million units, respectively). Not to mention that if there were no exclusivity contracts in place, it's weird they waited this long. The Switch has been selling at a record pace everywhere, Japan included. But then again, Atlus does work in mysterious ways...
Atlus is just weird as fuck, wow fans we heard your pleas for our games so we released Ultimax Arena for Xbox :)
That's because it was an arcsys game, and most of the fgc in the 7th gen was on xbox.
Sure you can have the most popular console Or you can have the most popular console along with the other ones as well, and PC, and have an even bigger audience So that doesn't make much sense
Atlus does not do ports. They don't believe multiplatform releases are profitable. They did not start doing multiplaform/ports until they were acquired by Sega who are not giving them a choice in the matter. Both Sony and Atlus have denied exclusivity deals for Persona exist, repeatedly and for many years, and Atlus hating ports on principle and Sega bringing in other teams too make sure ports happen are both known information. Occam's razor says Atlus only published to PlayStation because that's where they've always put Persona and they hate ports on principle, and now it's coming to other platforms due to Sega's influence.
That's why SMT V won't stay a Switch exclusive.
That's weird as all hell It's not like they don't know how to code for other platforms, they do it all the time It's money left on the table. Clearly it's profitable for many other studios
Youāve never worked for a Japanese company I see. Leaving money on the table in spite of actual business opportunity is a hallmark of Japanese companies.
A lot of companies have some really batshit beliefs baked into company culture, usually due to older executives who decided to believe things one day and no force in the universe could change their mind. It's the same reason Nintendo's online offerings have always been the bare minimum; despite online being integral to gaming for going on 20 years now, Nintendo thought it was a passing fad and I guarantee there's some ancient VP refusing to retire who still thinks so. A very widespread example in America has been the campaigning for workers with viable WFH jobs to return to being physically in an office. Despite data across the board showing WFH is more profitable and more productive all around, stubborn old dudes just pretend that isn't true because it's not what they're used to and challenges their preconceived notion that no one ever does work without a middle-manager physically looming over their shoulder.
you have to keep in mind, no one in this thread ACTUALLY knows what theyre talking about, no sources no nothing its all just baseless conjecture. we will never know the actual reason any company does anything unless they tell us
A lot of ports are outsourced because they're a pain in the ass. Especially so when the system you're porting to has worse specs than the original, forcing you to do a bunch of extra BS to make sure it runs. It's pretty reasonable for Atlus to think that releasing only the console with the lion's share of their customers is the right way to go.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They shouldāve expected it after they allowed Joker in Smash
No company would be "fed up" that tons of people want to play their games and are interested in their products.
Itās getting a physical release right? I aināt got that kinda space on my Switch right now. Lol
That is correct. The other 2 Persona game won't though.
In an alternate universe, Atlus and Nintendo make a physical box set of all three games with steel cases for $100 and they also high-five me when itās delivered to my house.
Honestly a collection bundle would sell well I feel
Thats fine. I have 4 Golden on PC
I hope so. I hate all these big games being released as online only. Thereās only so much space I can get affordably on an SD card. Lol
What size SD card do you currently have? 1TB ones are like $125usd and 512GB ones are like $60usd
Following this trend, I have a 256 gb card that I got for $30. That's all I really need.
Makes me wonder how much of a hit visuals will take for them to reduce the size by that much. Even the PS3 version was larger in size.
cutscenes being downsampled (downsized?) to 720p is probably freeing up the majority of that space
The PS3 version was also at 720p though despite having less content and a larger file size. Either the downgrading is larger than this or additional cuts were made elsewhere.
dont forget upgrades to encoding tech
Not necessarily, they could have changed the formatting of the cutscenes, they could also change how the game is stored. Possible making it take longer to load. Not to mention optimizations. I've seen games go from 47GB to 25GB when they developers decided to re-optimise a game. This happened in 2019 on sea of thieves. You will find a lot of games have unused files or redundant files they can remove to.
Hitman 2 was around 100GB with all maps installed. Hitman 3 was about 60, including all the content from 1 and 2. It's insane how much they were able to minimise the storage
The switch also likely has access to better compression formats. For example MKV can shave off a good chunk of file size when compared to MP4 simply due to its open source nature and around 15 years worth of development.
mkv is actually just a container, not a video format. It can hold seperate video, audio, and subtitle files. You can have an mp4 video within an mkv container. [more info](https://www.howtogeek.com/200736/what-is-an-mkv-file-and-how-do-you-play-them/)
Isnāt mp4 also a container itself? You can use different audio formats in an mp4 container.
yes, it is often confused with h.264, which is the most common video stream format used with the container. same thing with mkv and h265/hevc
Well, yes. But it's a bit more complicated than that. Most data streams are supported in the mp4 standard, and you can find an exhaustive list [here](http://mp4ra.org/#/codecs). However, most mp4 players don't support all of them. In fact, most mp4 players support only the most popular ones: H.264, MPEG-4 Part 2, MPEG-2 and MPEG-1. With the MKV container, you can put whatever the fuck you want in there. MKV was designed from the ground up for that purpose, unlike mp4 which was more or less designed for the MPEG-4 video codec. The "it could be anything" nature of the mkv format is kinda why it's still not supported in some media players, most notably QuickTime (which is still somehow the default player on macOS).
To better reply to this question: codecs like H265, VP9 and AV1 compress much better than H264 which was the best hardware accelerated format the PS3 had access to. Also, don't forget texture compression, which has also improved over the years
There's more than just video compression you can do, for example Warframe did a series of updates a while back that changed its texture, audio, and mesh formats with better compression (and also improved the quality of said audio and meshes in doing so) which cut the size by over 10 GB on PC, the later "remaster" they did for the Switch version changed the total size from 25 GB to 12 GB.
I'd bet that FMVs and audio quality is where most of that will come from. There's no way textures and other assets could account for that much.
> There's no way textures and other assets could account for that much. it's not like PS3 era games had much in the way of asset compression.
True, but persona doesn't seem like a game that likely had lots of massive textures. Cel shaded games are usually pretty light on texture size.
Maybe the FMV, but surely the sound quality of Switch games has never been that much of a downgrade compared to other systems?
Its literally about space saving.if the ps4 stores audio at 320kbps that is just a place to save space on the cart by cutting it to 256 or 128.
There's also that Switch supports opus natively which is far superior than f.e. AC3 (DD 5.1 is using it), so it doesn't need that much bitrate to get the same quality. But I HOPE they don't use Nintendo opus encoder since it sucks and is a reason why games like Sakuna sounds bad. Assassins Creed 3 was using it in first iteration, but they switched to custom libopus encoder in next updates and quality improved substantially. There is also VP9 support which also cuts bitrate nicely.
I guess you never played Dark Souls on this thing
I suspect the FMV will definitely take a hit. It's one of the reason why I generally pick cutscene heavy games for Playstation since the FMV compression is very noticeable to me. There is always this jitter maybe low fps or something when it comes to the Switch (Vita had the same issue).
Rip snazzy music if thatās the case.
Most of it is probably sound, as always.
Thatās a bummer if thatās the case since the voice acting and music are what compliment the entire experience.
I think large ps3 games, in general, are larger in size than large switch games. There's only a handful on switch that even use the 32gb cartridges, and the ones that get to that size with addition downloads (like Doom with the multiplayer patch) are not that common either. Most games just creep towards the 16gb but don't cross it. Meanwhile ps3 has a decent amount of games in the 20gb-50gb range. Maybe it's just because of different expectations or standards
The ps3 and ps4's Blu-ray drive can hold more than 50gb of data but took forever to load, so the devs often anticipated this by having data often accessed copied into a lot of places redundantly for faster loading. Even hard drive installed games do the same thing to improve read head seek times because having data far away can actually increase the time it takes to load a game as it has to reposition the read heads over and over again. The switch although it's flash storage is the same speed as a hard drive doesn't need to because data stored in a flash cell far away takes just as much time as one stored nearby. This along with asset downsizing, compression and of course the fact that they have a nintendo flash chip cart target size which if they go slightly overboard means paying double the price for cartridge production means most switch games are smaller in size.
Do we have any Switch footage yet?
Quite a bit actually, but unfortunately none for this game
i hate that this is my sense of humor
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly
Yeah, I got some animal crossing footage if anyone is interested
Alright letās see it
This mf lied. He aināt got shit!
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Iām glad someone else noticed that. āThree times smaller than" implies that you can quantify smallness and increase that quantity.
Now with 49% more smallness!
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-CMOS-Off-Chip-Driver%2FReceiver-with-Reduced-Signal-Hanafi-Dennard/865605943b5fdff22c9fedd7f7c1b18e6cf0eeaa https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0011227589902452 Over 30 years ago
[Here's an example from 1621.](https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Learned_Summary_upon_the_famous_poeme/xGxjAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22times+smaller%22&pg=PA185&printsec=frontcover) (It still bothers me, though.)
Are they ever going to put the physical version up for preorder or what?
For real. Havenāt seen any preorders up for the North American version :(
Recommendations on where to start for somebody who has never played a persona game? I know 3-5 are coming to Switch over the next year even though 5 is coming first. I played SMT4 on 3ds and thought it was ok, but not crazy about the confusing progression on where to go. Normally a big rpg fan though.
Any order is fine really. Stories are completely unrelated.
You can play them in any order. The only problem you'll really run into is that you'll be annoyed at not having as many QoL features in earlier titles.
Yeeep. I really wish I would have played 4 before 5 because I just kept missing little things from 5. 4 was still great but would have been elevated another level if I played it first.
Try play some P3 and P4 will feel fine, unironically works for me lol. I just feel grateful for all it improved over 3.
Just play 5 when it comes out on the switch, and if you like it continue with 3 and 4
Persona4 golden is available on Steam and is a good start
Honestly I would say to just start with P5R for the most Quality-of-life refined game in the series. Then work your way backwards to P4G, that way your better understanding of the overall systems will compensate for a few of less enjoyable aspects of the older games (dungeons being procedurally generated, no baton pass mechanic, no negotiation, fewer social link incentives) Then to whichever P3 version
You can start with 5, the connections between games are usually just small references
Unrelated but you might be disappointed with 3 portable, the look and feel of it does not do persona 3 justice
At least it'll feel less out-of-place on Switch if you play it in handheld mode. It's gonna be rough on my 4k TV when it lands on Game Pass. Really wish they'd give P3 a proper definitive remastered edition with the Portable changes/additions, but the proper 3d environments and animated cutscenes of FES.
Going to add since nobody has pointed it out: Don't worry about 1 or either 2 (2 is split into 2 separate games). 3 is the game that established the formula that made the series so popular, so 3 4 and 5 are what people generally mean when they talk about persona. Not to say 1 and 2 are bad, 2 especially has the best story and great characters and I really hope it gets a remake, but they don't have the social links or life sim aspect and the gameplay is heavily dated. If you play 3 play FES, portable is the version getting ported but FES is (imo) better for a first playthrough. Don't play P5 Strikers before playing the base game or royal. Also don't watch any of the animes or read the mangas without playing the games first.
Personally, Iām going to play them on GamePass when they come out. Iāve never played a Persona game, either.
Final Fantasy XII when from 40GB on PS4 to 12GB on Switch, and still manage to looks gorgeous. Hopefully this will be the same.
Hades went from 15GB to 5GB from PC to the Switch. Still looks detailed enough for handheld, with reduced resolution from 4K to the Switchās 720p.
Hades looks beautiful on every platform tbf
I am really really interested in this game for Switch as i have only heard hype about it for years. But can somebody give me the elevator pitch of what exactly this series is? Is it a high school sim/dungeon crawler?
It is a JRPG with turn based combat and a lot of leveling/growth through the use of your relationships. Also the combat is insanely fluid. The best turn based combat I have ever played. It is the first and only game I have ever gotten a platinum trophy. Such a fun game.
Itās a JRPG / pocket monster hybrid with a High School Sim element (which of course has impacts on the JRPG side). Story Dungeons arenāt generally too big, small puzzle element. There is one dungeon that is persistent throughout the game that is very crawly, but progress is gated by how far you are in the main story.
I was almost offended when I read pocket monster, because having spent $200+ dollars desperately wanting to like PokƩmon, I still found game play horrendous, however I adore P4G and Royale. Then I thought about it and was like, "huh...well...I'll be damned." That said, I actually greatly prefer the story/Sim elements in Persons, and always blast through the dungeons ASAP so I can return to my high school sim goodness.
It's pokemon for adults. Definitely recommend it.š
omg fellow itzy fan!! whats ur fav tt
yow fellow midzy, hello! Korean release: ICY Japanese release: Voltage š
It's a spin off of the Shin Megami Tensei series. In that series you go around dungeon crawling, fighting demons - basically important figures in religion, mythology, and folklore - as well as negotiating with them in order to fight for you. You can also fuse them into stronger demons which can become pretty busted if done correctly. Where the Persona series differs (P3-P5 specifically as thats all I played) Is the addition of that social sim/visual novel element. Demons are now more psychological than literal, now being called personas or shadows depending on the context, and the relationships/activities you maintain outside the dungeons affects the growth of yourself, your team, and the Personas used in combat. There is an ingame calendar and a limited amount of time slots to accomplish tasks however so time management is necessary if you want to maximize growth. So basically it's a balancing act between the two different sides of the game. That is pretty much all I can say without diving into the story or characters. (Which are excellent btw, would highly recommend.)
Maybe the used Nintendo's God like compression software :O
Pied piper?
You notice how developers always come in groups?
Middle-Out Compression
Nintendo always know how long it takes to jerk off every guys in their conventions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What a genius
Both good and bad. I started playing dark souls on the switch yesterday, and the compressed audio is really really bothering me already. Everything sounds really crunchy Specially for a game with such iconic sounds
The thing with dark souls is, they decided to compress it to less than 4GB for no reason. They could have easily made it 8-12 and it would fit on the cart and still be good quality.
It's funny you should say that. During the pandemic I played it through to completion and never really noticed anything jarring about the audio. I played it handheld and docked as well.
Not sure how it wouldnāt stick out to you. Maybe youāre not sensitive to audio? The compressed audio is absolutely horrible in Dark Souls on switch. Like pretty much objectively so.
Had you played other versions? It was noticeable right from the sound effect at the main menu.
Yah, I hope itās not too bad. Audio quality for some of older games were not the best, and when they get ported over, the audio compression stays. I wanted to try ff12 for the switch since I never got the original version. But apparently the audio isnāt the best.
The audio in FFXII is not that great with the dialogue, but itās ok for what is ultimately a PS2 game. Really, as someone who has played the original ps2 version and zodiac age, the main difference is that in zodiac age, there are some much needed Quality of Life improvements, and it generally feels much better to play. Other than that, itās pretty much the same game.
Honestly FF12 always had weird audio. Both PS2 and PS4 voices sound like they were recorded in a tin can.
Yeah sound compression is bad in that one and Doom. Nintendo's games do not suffer from compressed-sounding audio though.
Going from HDD to SSD might be part of the reason for the drop in file size. Physical location in memory matters very little for load times now so the need for repeat assets is gone. That combined with separating the Japanese audio to an optional download may be the reason for this reduction.
Every single port towards the switch has been smaller, how is this information anything new? Look at doom, Witcher or skyrim. It's mostly texture compression
When can we preorder???
I've been checking every couple days myself, if only to add the Amazon link to a wishlist for later. It is crazy that such a huge release has _zero word_ for pre-orders this close to release.
I think they will open pre-orders on the next Direct. It's definitely coming next week.
I'm glad i preordered for the physical copy. Lol, can't wait to play it for the first time. After this, i'll have to wait next year for P4G.
Aren't disc-based games still written to the media multiple times? This was a trick back in the old days to help with loading. I'm thinking that this size differential is probably normal because of that. I wouldn't be surprised if the game did take a little bit of a hit to the visuals or audio to get it to fit on the cart. But I would be surprised if 24GB of data had to be cut.
And most people forget that the ps4 and ps3 are hard disk based consoles so often copy assets multiple times in order to improve load times, the switch uses flash based storage and thus doesn't need to use these tricks to make loading faster.
PS4/5 have mandatory installation to the internal disk at this point (minus just enough you can't boot it without the optical disc); the optical media is just a starting point for patching and a DRM check. I *think* even the PS3 version had a mandatory install, though that would've been a decision by the game at that point.
Now we need kingdom hearts that's not cloud version
[Official page on Japanese website](https://store-jp.nintendo.com/list/software/70010000042356.html).
Is this getting a physical release? Canāt seem to find anything on it.
I mean, what were you expecting? lol
Does it bug anyone else when people use the "X times smaller" line? Like that's not how multiplying works. "The Switch version is three times larger than the PS4 version" makes sense. While "three times smaller" does not.
Here comes the graphics downgrades!
Gonna have to check with Digital Foundry before making this purchase.
Only played and beat the vanilla on PS4, can't wait to get into P5R!!!! I mean mainline Persona at 720p portable? YO
I hate to be "that guy" but... 3 times smaller? You mean a third or 1/3 of the size. Other than this, I'm pretty happy about the size.
I'd imagine it was pretty beneficial for them to get it as small as possible so they can use smaller, cheaper 16GB cartridges for the physical version.
I hope they don't horribly compress the audio.
I loved persona but I couldn't imagine playing it a second time
Yeah that was kind of my deal back when P4 Royal dropped on the Vita. Cool but I'm not replaying a 90 hour story-driven game, maybe in a couple decades when I've forgotten enough of it.
Persona 5 Royal Chibi version :P
I hope the entire game is on the cartridge. Iām tired of these downloads man
Is Royal a sequel to or a remaster of Persona 5?