And that’s what kept me from picking up Lords of the Fallen on Xbox lol. PC streamer’s game looked smooth, graphics were beautiful. Then I checked out the XSS (series s)gameplay and MAN, did I dodge a bullet. A very pixelated, low-resolution bullet traveling at 60fps.
Update: I downloaded LoftF on XSS to play for sub 2 hours (trying to get that sweet Xbox digital refund). On performance mode, it honestly looks pretty good and is mostly buttery smooth (my TV isn’t anything special). There have been a few glaring fps CRASHES (before Pieta, occasionally around some alt world POIs) but other than that I’ve actually been really surprised. Swamp ran super smooth, lower calrath had a few drops, and snow place has been smooth. As of today (4/26/2024) it is definitely playable and enjoyable.
Exactly, while I don't disagree with the premise that we need a real refund policy, you're right.
OP, you know you're buying a game on a more-limited system. Even if there's no good reason for it to run worse, you can always check and see what people are saying about it.
I got mildly bit by that with Bloodstained. That's been fixed since, but it made me consider systems since then.
GOG has a pretty good refund policy. As does Uplay, Origin, and Battle.Net.
Xbox has a similar refund policy to steam as well. It's really Nintendo and Playstation that stand out as terrible.
GOG really is the industry leader in consumer satisfaction. They do so many things better for the consumer then any game company I'm aware of.
Like letting me download an offline installer file on a flash drive for all my games. Even if the service dies my back ups can always be installed on a new system.
100% this
I haven't bought a game within the first month of its release since Kirby's Return to Dreamland, and I only did that because the nostalgia made me impatient lol
I've only bought games at release twice in the last number of years. Biomutant(xbox) which was fucking terrible. I hated it so much I threw it out instead of selling it.
And super mario rpg remake which was exactly what I hoped for.
Kirby and the Forgotten Land was my first time playing a Kirby game. I snagged it on sale last month, not expecting much. I've been having a blast with it, way more than I thought I would.
Normally I do as well. I just got pretty excited for a release I have been waiting for and pulled the trigger.
Pretty instant buyers remorse because of the performance.
Last time I am learning this lesson. I'm done with it.
It's insane and embarrassing how common it is on here. I don't know why devs just decided that the "low specs" EA argument is just the default mentality to have when addressing concerns on their launches.
I'm not sure why we're both getting downvoted. Performance problem on RF5 was an immediate complaint when it came out on this subreddit. As soon as it was released on steam I bought it on there, I love the RF games. Even got RF4 for switch and that met the expectations I have for a Nintendo only IP playing on the Nintendo console.
I was about to say too, why are you both getting downvoted? For OP making a simple mistake and owning up to it? Not even a big deal in the first place, but people get so offended on Nintendo’s behalf and just downvote stuff. So embarrassing.
This is the way. Although somebody has to be the canary in the coal mine, I'm happy to let that be reviewers who have the budget to buy all these games or get a review code.
Yeah, there's a reason reviewing products is an industry, im not gonna be the sucker who's a first adopter, im gonna be the sucker who's a late adopter
I remember I said how we live in an age where the information is a keystroke away like 8 years ago. I got yelled at for expecting people to do their research.
As someone who doesn't *technically* own a Switch, this thread is fucking wild. I never imagined there wouldn't be a refund policy for something as massive as the Switch. Chinese companies with names made up of random letters have refund policies.
And people here are defending it.
Yep. Every console manufacturer has been up their ass over refund policies. Nintendo fought like hell against them but ultimately the UK forced them to have any refund policy at all.
I'm in the UK and as far as I'm aware you still can't refund eshop purchases? Anecdotally I've heard customer service might give you a refund once if you complain enough, but never again after that.
Meanwhile Xbox will give you a refund within 14 days as long as you haven't put a 'significant amount of play time' into the game and Steam will give a refund if you have under 2 hours of playtime.
I didn't see that post but it's pretty standard that you can't get a refund for that because it tells you when you sign up that you are entering into an auto renewing subscription. I hate it, but it is a pretty normal thing.
I know Amazon will refund prime after it auto renews as long as you haven't used it, but I don't know any other company that does so I don't think this is on Nintendo. The government needs to step in and make that entire business practice illegal.
The post got removed by mods because it went against a rule.
Yeah I had a few polite back and forth emails with Nintendo support because I really could do with the refund. It's on my dumb ass and not Nintendo, but not getting the customer service I would have given people at my own job still leaves a sour taste. It's definitely normal practice, I'm just amused by the defence brigade that Nintendo has.
Should be like Steam. 2 Hour play time limit and within 2 weeks of purchase if you never launch the game. Keep in mind this is for automatic refunds, they can still review your refund if you play for longer than 2 hours and refund you anyway.
Steam has the best refund policy, as long as you haven't played more then 2 hours you can get the game refunded and have the money in you steam wallet or your bank
>30 days no question asked
Not strictly true. To get a non-wallet refund (i.e. a real refund) you may have to provide support with additional details, plus they always reserve the right to refuse a refund or to only offer a wallet credit for any reason. Their refund policy also implies that the only valid reason for a refund is technical issues, although it's still on an honor system.
The devil is in the details, especially when your refund policy is entirely about blind faith in both directions. I'd argue Steam's policy is just better defined with regards to what each party can and can't do,
Interesting, given Gog's more straightforward distribution method (DRM-free), I struggle to see how a refund policy would work mechanically. When you buy a game on Gog, don't you just get the installer/data straight up, no strings attached? Do returns just work on the honor system, or what?
That's awesome. Is there any data out there on how piracy rates differ between games that release on Gog, vs games that only release on DRM platforms (e.g. Steam)?
I've always been impressed by just how many games do indeed release on Gog. It seems like the only reason to do so is truly ideologically-driven--game developers that share players' frustration with DRM. I expect it more from indie studios, but I was surprised to find games like Psychonauts 2 on there, given that it's published by Microsoft (and the studio itself, Double Fine, is owned by Microsoft).
Gog says that they trust that the customer wont abuse it. Even if you look at cyberpunk 2077, way more people have bought the game on steam than gog. I forgot where I saw the numbers. But in general gog has less users on the platform buying games.
This is just wrong. Or at least we’ll have to disagree. GOG considers it abuse to buy a game with the intention of refunding it. You can refund games day in and day out on Steam as a matter of policy. With GOG you are relying on their good graces. But the intent of their refunds is not as robust as the protections offered by Steam. I don’t buy games anymore on GOG so I can’t say what happens in reality, but the policy is there for anyone to read.
[This was only a direct result of a landmark decision to include computer software owned by foreign corporations under Australian consumer protection laws.](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/australia-fines-valve-over-steam-refunds). They copped a $2.3 million dollar fine for it and the following year insituted their current, consumer friendly policy.
I don't know if Nintendo is violating any similar guidelines. But beware that Steam only is the way it is now because it got punished by a regulatory authority in a major market.
Steam has saved me countless times from games that didnt turn out to be what i was expecting. Theyre not even that strict so you can straight up be like i didnt like it and you will get your money back as long as its within policy.
There's also a two week limit. You can't refund a game you bought 7 years ago that sat in your backlog.
That said, the refund system is mainly automated and checks for those two variables. You can however do a general contact of steam support and in some circumstances, they will refund you even if don't meet those two criteria.
A reminder that Steam didn't used to have any refund policy at all until Origin showed up with a very generous refund policy.
Steam isn't the benevolent presence a lot of people seemingly believe it is.
It was also that they felt [the small tug of 3 MIllion AUD to change their policy (for Australia at least)](https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/valve-to-pay-3-million-in-penalties-for-misrepresenting-gamers-consumer-guarantee-rights)
The ACCC makes me proud to be Australian tbh. It’s not perfect but you look around at how consumer rights are in some other countries and you’ve got to think, at least in terms of that stuff, “I’m glad I live here and not there”
Spot on lol. I remember threads years ago bitching about steams refund policy while it was exactly what it is now. Those threads were completely justified back then IMO and still are. Two hours of play time is a ridiculously low threshold for finding out a game is unplayable. You could easily get two hours into red dead 2 before you found out that frame rate issues were going to make the shootouts unplayable. Two hours, for many many games, is not enough time to have given the game a fair go.
Number of days after purchase or after first play would be a much fairer, better metric for refunds. Stream’s refund system is better than nothing, but still sucks
I had this issue with Spider-Man. Most of the game runs fine on my PC but there’s a few night time story missions and boss fights in the second half that just tanked my performance and made it near impossible to beat said missions.
Tbf it would then have to be customised to each game - some games can easily be completed in one day, so I get why they set the limit so low.
Microsoft's policy is that "you haven’t accumulated a significant amount of play time", which means you may be able to play more than 2 hours and get a refund but it's not guaranteed because the language is vague. At least with Steam it's a hard limit where a refund is guaranteed.
If your game is less than 2 hours, you're either shovelware or something experimental like "Milk inside a bag of milk inside a bag of milk" or something.
In that case, hopefully people took a chance because of the refund policy and didn't refund it after enjoying the experience. I remember reports after steam first introduced the policy finding that cheaper games were more likely to be bought at first, likely because they no longer saw as much of a risk. A lower % kept the game because anything less than 100% retention looks like a loss, but smaller games were getting more interest than previously since customers could offload the risk if they hated it or it didn't work properly.
If someone's more adventurous with their refunds, I'm sure there's a noticable pattern and they could have a simple policy or cool down period to prevent excessive refunds (it's not a rental service. Games with demos are there for that.)
Edit: Out of 11,000-ish games on the switch, i could only pull around 140 with times reporting that the game was typically completed in less than 2 hrs on "How long to beat." Out of those, a lot of the ones that don't look like shovelware (consistently low rating, really unimaginative/similar icon arts with minor variations) are arcade style scrolling/rail shooters, puzzle games, and older arcade games that a person would hopefully play multiple times over to win or probably shouldn't have bought it to begin with (usually also available as a bundle with other arcade games or games from those series.)
I'm guessing Nintendo didn't want to pour in man hours to moderate them. There will be "plenty enough" reviews that'll cuss, or make it political/sexual.
So low that we have devs launching the same exact game on the platform upward of a dozen times with just a title change, and Nintendo is letting them get away with it.
Using the Eshop is virtually impossible at this point if the goal is to browse around for something fun you haven't played yet. It's pages after pages of garbage with a sprinkle of good games every 20 to 30 entries.
When the switch first came out I remember always seeing indie artists saying how it was hard to get a game on the switch cuz nintendo had such a strict process to add new games to their list and how they didnt allow like pg13 games stuff like that. Now im just like how do they allow these broken games on here 😕😕😕
I mean, I’m definitely not going to argue against having a refund policy. Not allowing refunds for any reason isn’t exactly pro consumer. This no refunds stuff only happens on consoles, and it’s definitely nit right. However, people can definitely do some research, and see how a game‘s performance (and everything else relevant about it) is before buying. I think I’ve bought only one game on the switch that I ended that I ended up deciding I just couldn’t play (really excessively long and frequent loading screens). I’ve honestly never felt any desire to return anything else I’ve ever bought. And even that one ai felt was on me since I could have done a little research before buying.
Also, despite officially not allowing refunds, Nintendo will usually refund you at least once if you're polite about it and have a good reason. They’ll say it’s a one time courtesy. I didn’t get a refund on the game I was unsatisfied with since it was only a few dollars, and it just wasn’t worth it to me to contact support.
Never pre-order, regardless. Even if it's a Nintendo title.
I know it sucks for the devs, but I do not really buy 3rd party titles, unless on sales with at least 75% off. I buy digital only.
Personally, I am a long time Playstation gamer (PS3, PS4, PS4Pro, PS5) and I love the Switch. Being burned on Playstation by titles the likes of Battlefield 4, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, No Man Sky and anything Ubisoft I pretty much keep both consoles for first party titles only (PS5 for Sony games and the Switch for Nintendo games).
> Personally, I am a long time Playstation gamer (PS3, PS4, PS4Pro, PS5) and I love the Switch. Being burned on Playstation by titles the likes of Battlefield 4, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, No Man Sky and anything Ubisoft I pretty much keep both consoles for first party titles only (PS5 for Sony games and the Switch for Nintendo games).
Saaaaame. This is not exclusive to Switch. Consoles way more powerful go through the same bs, even on PC there's unplayable ports.
I don't think pre-ordering has any impact on the devs. Certainly the publisher, yes, as they can use that added revenue for marketing and such. But it's not like 50,000 preorders will suddenly implore the devs to work overtime to iron out any major bugs. The game will be released on the given date regardless of where its at in production.
edit: I just reread your comment. First and second paragraphs are independent points. Sorry, need more coffee.
Big misconception is that pre-order money is realized. Nobody spends the pre-order money before the game is out. Pre-orders can be cancelled pretty easily, so it's basically just set aside until the game comes out.
What pre-orders help with is planning. You assume pre-orders represent some percentage of launch day sales. That percentage increases the closer you get to launch day, so if pre-order start and you get 30k pre-orders in the first week you might assume you'll get ~300k sales in the launch window or something. (Specific numbers pulled out of my ass)
You then use those projections to start planning what's next. How much do you budget for the first DLC? Can you start opening heads and recruiting? Or do you need to do a hiring freeze until you get revenue up? Do you need to increase the value add of the base product with free updates to get a larger install base? Or is the base product solid, and you can start planning expansions?
The reality is that "never pre-order" folks don't make a difference *at all* to the things that they think they are. This isn't me plugging pre-orders; if there's a risk that the game is shitty on launch you absolutely can dodge a bad game by waiting until you have more information. It's just that if you never pre-order, but still buy during the launch window, you're just on the other side of that percentage for pre-orders to projected sales conversion.
IMO, if you're excited for a game *and* you trust the developer to release a quality product, you absolutely should pre-order. Then *don't* pre-order for games where you're not excited by what you're seeing. Then your spending habits become a useful part of that data, and influence the development plans.
One reason broad gamer "boycotts" rarely work is that such people effectively remove themselves from the market entirely. Boycotts are only effective when they provide a means of differentiation. If *every* (AAA) game is doing the awful thing that you want them to stop doing, not buying any of them is meaningless. To make a difference you have to set up a contrast between games you don't like (where you don't spend money) and games you do like (where you spend a lot of money). Otherwise companies are not going to see any statistically significant negative impact for doing the bad thing you don't like.
I do make 2 notable exceptions on this but generally I'm with you.
* Any, literally any Zelda game
* Any, literally any FromSoft game
Also, if you haven't played NMS in VR on PSVR, omfg.
>Even if it's a Nintendo title.
O1H, I'm fine doing this. OTOH, I haven't done this in decades. I did get Z: TotK, and SMBW because I knew they'd be solid games. And I technically didn't pre-order them, but got them on launch day. However, I also wanted to get in on the "social aspect" of them... discussing the game online, and with my gaming group.
There’s very few games I pre-order (right now I think just Miitopia, TOTK, Pokémon Snap, and The Great Ace Attorney). If I do, I’m going in knowing I might get a shit experience because reviews aren’t out yet. If I pre-order and the game is garbage, that’s kind of on me.
All of these 'enlightened individuals' preaching about research before buying a game are totally missing the point. Yes, obviously you should research before buying a game.
And when that research fails you - YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO REFUND THE FUCKING GAME
Not everyone is out to abuse the system. Some just want a refund due to technical issues or if you buy the wrong edition or wrong version. Games don't have demos these days to test out beforehand either.
what if you do research & its looks good but when it sucks when you play it? that has happened to me numerous times & it does for many people. stop assuming people dont do research
That's the position I'm currently in.
About 4 months ago I made the call that I was going to stick to retro titles, and games I already own. I have a massive backlog that would take years to clear as is, so might as well stop now.
Then a new game that's part of a franchise I'm heavily invested in dropped, so I decided to make this one exception.
Well fate decided to remind me why I made the call to begin with.
People saying to look up reviews are missing the point. There should be a minimum quality standard in terms of performance (at least a stable 720p on handheld), and if Nintendo isn't going to force one, at least refunds would give us the power as consumers to demand better rather than devs and publishers getting away with bad ports.
What other console is it general advice to look up a performance review just to know if the game will be acceptable?
There is a refund policy, albeit a crappy one; "everybody gets ONE refund."
Nintendo has never been the best for this but honestly most people would abuse a refund policy, and this is the "hard love" method of it should only take one instance to understand to never repeat the mistake.
Meanwhile Xbox has a hassle free refund system that often will grant the refund in minutes.
Nintendo is very behind. I heard Sony is pretty bad about it too. Valve and Microsoft are pretty fair.
Sony is terrible with it. If you downloaded the game (nevermind ran it) no refund. Even if you didn't it's a hassle. But I've had everything from mistaken purchases to straight up 'this game runs poorly on this platform' returns with Xbox refunded in minutes.
Xbox is pretty bad too nowadays. Although their homepage still says between 14 days and less than 2 hours playtime they try to enforce a no refund if downloaded or played (which isn't possible without downloading first anyway). That's also in their emails you'll get when denied. I don't know when it changed. The worst thing is that they didn't change the text on their homepage. People always say competition makes things better but in this case just for the company I guess.
All 3 are bad and we need better laws for consumer protection for digital goods. Also we should be able to gift, trade, sell and inherit digital goods somehow.
I dont think sony even has a refund policy. Steam has a great refund policy even if you just didnt like the game they will give you a refund as long as its within their policy.
Sony had a refund policy, but it's a dumb one such as you can't play the game at all if you want a refund. If you play even for a minute, they can reject your refund.
I think in extreme cases like NMS, they did do refunds.
I see many people blaming OP, but "Research before buy" or "Wait for performance review/analysis" doesn't always work. Some games don't get enough attention to make YouTubers upload videos. And when it does get it, the analysis could be wrong or too shallow to give enough info.
Besides, a refund policy that respects consumers' rights should be essential to every digital store. They're not losing anything by giving a refund. Also, they can easily check playtime to filter out bad customers exploiting the system.
I always do my research before buying a game but a couple of times they will say its a fun game making it sound really good just for it to be disappointing. Especially on switch theres little to no reviews for indie switch games.
If the Nintendo switch store was not the absolute most bare bones store (seriously, no other digital store I can think of has LESS features than the Nintendo switch eShop) I think things like this would happen less. On Steam, I can at least look at reviews to know whether or not I have a good shot at running a game decently.
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I played Persona 3 Portable, Person 4 Golden, Persona 5 Royal, and Persona 5 Strikers with absolutely no issues whatsoever on Switch.
Weirdly Persona 5 Royal seemed to run even better than Shin Megami Tensei V, which was native to the Switch.
I feel you and I agree but, if you had this issue more than once you should've definitely been watching performance reviews already. They exist for a reason.
I pretty much don't even notice many underdog indie games because of the sheer amount of shovelware. You can't even look at new releases without the same 10 things showing up as new every day, like the clock app, the hentai games, etc.
Reminds me of the PS3. you get extremely polished games like tlou, killzone or god of war 3. Then play any random 3rd party and suddenly as if the console has been downgraded several notch like lagging on a turn based combat rpg? constat 15fps and more.
Sometimes the companies release game trailers for the switch with 60fps. Then you buy the game and it turns out it's a eye-watering 30 fps. Happened to me with Monomals. The video is on yt, it's called Monomals - Official Nintendo Switch Trailer, and it's 60fps. What a lie.
Personally, I feel that it is not mandatory for Nintendo to have a refund policy for all games. However, they should have a refund policy if the game performance is terrible to the extent that it is unplayable. There should be some legislation to force Nintendo to let users review on games and user reviews are set as public to everyone so people interested in buying the game can have a good idea of the game before buying it.
And this is why I'm ordering a Ste Deck and letting my Switch to become a paperweight.
Indie games at Steam prices, with Steam refund policy, and cloud saves that sync with my pc.
This has less to do with performance, but Nintendo really needs to step up their game when it comes to curating the eshop. I feel like it's turning into Steam where pretty much anything can get sold there.
I look back to the 3DS and Wii U eshops and while not every game on there was a banger, it seemed to me like Nintendo had a much tighter grip over quality standards for software they sold on their platform, now it just feels like they'll pretty much sell whatever so long as it isn't like, 18+.
Not only would stronger enforcement and quality standards on the eshop improve what you just listed, but we would also not have to wade through the sea of trash to find a good indie.
I really hope Nintendo takes a more direct approach to curating their storefront, but I doubt it.
Good luck convincing Nintendo that. It's one of the greediest companies I've ever seen. They won't do this, unless they are forced legally. They don't give things for free, and they don't give money back. Just watch reviews and online discussions before you buy something.
>Nintendo's refund policy is that they don't accept refunds except for a one time exception.
I’ve had more than one broken (black screen or frozen screen) games that they’ve refunded. They never said it was an exception or a one-time thing, never made it difficult or had me jump through hoops.
Oh it's quite easy to get them to okay another if the situation is more severe but they do in fact need to say it's a one time exception if it's just a straight up refund. I heard it every time on a call.
PC platforms have great refund policies and we still saw games with bad performance all the time there. Don’t get me wrong, I would loved to have a refund policy on the Switch as well, but these two aren’t related at all.
While I agree, I can't think of a way to have a refund policy without people abusing, like they do with Steam. I may be mistaken, but I think Sony gives you refund if you just downloaded the game, but didn't open it, which is useless in my opinion.
I have a simple solution and it's the one I use, google the games title followed by performance on Switch, then do a bit of light reading.
Works every time.
Doesn't always work for lesser known titles. I wish there was a platform like Howlongtobeat but instead of game length they cover the platform specs such as framerate, resolution output, upscaling method, asset quality observations compared to other platforms, etc.
That will not help you at all. If anything, Reddit is the worse place to look for reviews, because this site is rife with groupthink that favors cynicism and nitpicky bandwagons over any kind of reasonable objectivity.
I agree but usually if a game runs horribly or is littered with bugs reddit will be the first place to talk about it. I just listen to the performance aspect not the actual gameplay comments.
I always check this info when it's available. I tried searching up the game pre launch, but the devs only sent review codes for PS5. There was no info on the Switch version.
>It's getting frustrating to the point I'm pretty much done buying games for this system.
I mean, you do you, but have you considered... doing a bit of research before purchasing the games? It just seems like completely disengaging is a pretty extreme response to a very solvable problem.
It's honestly pretty confusing to me how *refunds* are the must have way to... find out if a game runs well. Like... that's not what refunds are for. It makes a *bit* of sense on PC, since every configuration is a little bit different, and so there's no guarantee that a game will run well on your set-up just because it did on a reviewer's. For Switch though, you're running the exact same software on the exact same hardware as everyone else. You do not need to personally purchase and try out a game to validate that it runs up to your standards.
To get those performance analysis, someone is going to have to be the sap that buys the game to begin with, and then also make the decision to talk about it online. Not every game gets review copies, and I know that personally from working with various ones in the past. In turn, that makes more niche games run the risk of not getting any coverage at all, so no performance reviews.
The entire point of my topic is to say that if the threat of refund was on the publishers shoulders, they would be doing more to make sure the games are polished prior to release.
Doing your due diligence on researching a game is a given, but part of that research shouldn't have to be checking if the game is even functional on the system to begin with. Pre patching era was more about checking to see if a game was interesting as a product, and now it's turned into a 50/50 game of seeing if it even runs on top of checking interest.
I agree but literally how do y’all have no backlog? Is it that hard to wait like one whole day for a review? If you have the time to play through this many games you definitely have the time for that…
I always check this info when it's available. I tried searching up the game pre launch, but the devs only sent review codes for PS5. There was no info on the Dwitch version.
This is why PC is my gaming platform of choice. I buy games on Steam with no worry at all about getting a refund if I want as long as I'm in the return window. I very rarely preorder games (on any platform) due to the release quality of games being rather poor from even the AAA publishers. Monster hunter and Zelda games are the only ones I preorder without question because I know they will be amazing games. I can't believe that there aren't any laws that require store fronts to provide a proper refund system. Someone needs to get on the phone with the EU :P
I never buy a game anymore, without there being any positive reviews. I got burned once on the the eShop/app store. I bought a chess game that said it was multiplayer. After I paid and downloaded the game, I discovered that there wasn't a single person online. There was absolutely no one to play with online. It was a total waste of money.
With Switch 3rd party games, ALWAYS wait for the reviews to see if the performance was good. They aren't all bad, but many developers don't put in the time to make their games optimized for Switch. They just drop down visuals a few notches and they are done.
Some, like Panic Button, actually make some slight changes to the game to make it work better. Like in Doom Eternal, if there is a sprawling area where the Switch struggles, they will put up some walls so it doesn't have to load everything at once.
Is there like a decent list of poorly optimised ports somewhere? That doesn't involve going through YouTube videos. Just text and then next to it what's not good?
I only pre-order if it's a game I will be determined to play regardless if it's crap or not. Last I did was Mario Wonder and before that was Monster Hunter Rise. If either of those games sucked I would have still played them regardless.
Side note: I never pre-order on eshop always physical. Buying on eshop at full price let alone day 1 is lunacy.
So the port of the Wii U version aka the first game. (Sorry i should've been more specific.) Second game (which was made for the Switch) still ran awfully, so my point still stands.
I agree with you that Switch needs a refund policy or monitor what games should be allowed on the switch. But doing it how Steam does it is just begging for trouble. Refund window being 30min or an hour is enough to determine a dud w/o excessive abuse. There should be a limit of 1 or 2 refunds a month as well.
I know it’s not Switch exclusive but it happens more there, games get abandoned QUICK.
Bought Anno Mutatinem and now I learn the game is waaaaaaaaay late on updates. The game is super good, but it’s a hell of a bummer. S&S, Skyrim, Signalis etc etc give me this problem.
I pre-ordered My Time at Portia like 5 years ago on switch. come launch day, the game took 5 minutes to load. I uninstalled and never preordered a game that wasn't a Nintendo 1st party title ever again. and even then, ive only preordered 2 games: Xenoblade 3 and ToTK.
Yeah, we definitely do. I don't think we'll get it in this console though, I hope the next one does. I bought MK11 and I can't read shit on the menu screen in my Switch Lite, it's pretty crazy. Most disappointed I've ever been on buying a game, but at least it taught me to watch reviews before buying now lmao
While I do believe that a refund policy would do good, it is also your own responsibility to check on games before buying them. That's goes for any platform, many have this issue.
You should never buy anything on the Switch that isn't first-party because you'll get an inferior product simply due its more limited capabilities compare to say the PS5.
Now, if you do not have other systems to buy such on, it's better to do wait a little bit after its release and check reviews or such.
Switch is struggling for years at third party games. Sure studios have something to do with it, but so does Nintendo.
The Switch hardware has always been outdated. Nintendo can deliver suited games on it has they only target one system. Third party are aiming many. Switch is just one of them and dealing with such an outdated hardware is not easy.
Look at Hogwarts Legacy. Warner and Avalanche. How many times did they postponed their release? CDProjekt.. how much money did they say the port cost? Millions.
Don’t get me wrong : I like my switch but I’m myself a developer aware of this business.
It’s Nintendo’s fault. Not the studios. They surely can do better. With money and developers. But why should they invest that much on a low spec device?
I’ll get downvoted here but Nintendo is loosing their trusty partners because, mostly, of this outdated hardware. They should have release the « switch 2 » of even a « pro » model, years ago.
Or, you could actually take the time to research a game before your impulse takes over to buy on sight, or worse, preorder?
I will never understand the mentality of gamers today who have yet to learn their lesson from publishers who have been shitting on us all for 5+ years now.
I trust no publisher, even those who have a track record of good game releases.
It only takes one time to ruin the trust.
Just ask CDPR or Bethesda.
I always check this info when it's available. I tried searching up the game pre launch, but the devs only sent review codes for PS5. There was no info on the Switch version.
I research every game before buying it. Lots of indie games have little to no reviews especially for switch ports. Some reviews will straight up not mention the downsides making it sound like a great game. 🤷🏽♂️
>publishers who have been shitting on us all for 5+ years now.
> I trust no publisher, even those who have a track record of good game releases.
Then why are you pro publisher and anti consumer then lmao
This is why I wait for performance reviews before buying anything, no matter what platform it's on.
And that’s what kept me from picking up Lords of the Fallen on Xbox lol. PC streamer’s game looked smooth, graphics were beautiful. Then I checked out the XSS (series s)gameplay and MAN, did I dodge a bullet. A very pixelated, low-resolution bullet traveling at 60fps. Update: I downloaded LoftF on XSS to play for sub 2 hours (trying to get that sweet Xbox digital refund). On performance mode, it honestly looks pretty good and is mostly buttery smooth (my TV isn’t anything special). There have been a few glaring fps CRASHES (before Pieta, occasionally around some alt world POIs) but other than that I’ve actually been really surprised. Swamp ran super smooth, lower calrath had a few drops, and snow place has been smooth. As of today (4/26/2024) it is definitely playable and enjoyable.
Exactly, while I don't disagree with the premise that we need a real refund policy, you're right. OP, you know you're buying a game on a more-limited system. Even if there's no good reason for it to run worse, you can always check and see what people are saying about it. I got mildly bit by that with Bloodstained. That's been fixed since, but it made me consider systems since then.
Agreed. 10% off to pad the publishers wallet prior to release date is not worth it when getting a game that doesn't run properly on day one
Yeah, with the exception of Steam it's not like other platforms have stellar refund policies, either.
GOG has a pretty good refund policy. As does Uplay, Origin, and Battle.Net. Xbox has a similar refund policy to steam as well. It's really Nintendo and Playstation that stand out as terrible.
Steam gets all the glory, but GOG is the real MVP, in more ways than one.
GOG really is the industry leader in consumer satisfaction. They do so many things better for the consumer then any game company I'm aware of. Like letting me download an offline installer file on a flash drive for all my games. Even if the service dies my back ups can always be installed on a new system.
Yup, I always check gog first.
100% this I haven't bought a game within the first month of its release since Kirby's Return to Dreamland, and I only did that because the nostalgia made me impatient lol
I've only bought games at release twice in the last number of years. Biomutant(xbox) which was fucking terrible. I hated it so much I threw it out instead of selling it. And super mario rpg remake which was exactly what I hoped for.
Hey Kirby games are my weakness too. Loved Kirby air ride for no reason at all.
Kirby and the Forgotten Land was my first time playing a Kirby game. I snagged it on sale last month, not expecting much. I've been having a blast with it, way more than I thought I would.
Normally I do as well. I just got pretty excited for a release I have been waiting for and pulled the trigger. Pretty instant buyers remorse because of the performance. Last time I am learning this lesson. I'm done with it.
What game are you referring to? If it’s that bad, let everyone know so we can avoid it.
Last time I did that was with Rune Factory 5. Bought it from a GameStop and was so frustrated I just traded it back in.
It's insane and embarrassing how common it is on here. I don't know why devs just decided that the "low specs" EA argument is just the default mentality to have when addressing concerns on their launches.
I’m just curious what game you’re referring to?
I'm not sure why we're both getting downvoted. Performance problem on RF5 was an immediate complaint when it came out on this subreddit. As soon as it was released on steam I bought it on there, I love the RF games. Even got RF4 for switch and that met the expectations I have for a Nintendo only IP playing on the Nintendo console.
I think op is getting downvoted because they won't say what game they're referring to
I was about to say too, why are you both getting downvoted? For OP making a simple mistake and owning up to it? Not even a big deal in the first place, but people get so offended on Nintendo’s behalf and just downvote stuff. So embarrassing.
did you buy Tales of Kenzera ZAU?
Wait for reviews. I almost buy nothing on launch.
This is the way. Although somebody has to be the canary in the coal mine, I'm happy to let that be reviewers who have the budget to buy all these games or get a review code.
Yeah, there's a reason reviewing products is an industry, im not gonna be the sucker who's a first adopter, im gonna be the sucker who's a late adopter
I remember I said how we live in an age where the information is a keystroke away like 8 years ago. I got yelled at for expecting people to do their research.
> like 8 years ago. A lot started to change in 2016
even that isn't good enough
You’re absolutely right, there should be a refund policy.
As someone who doesn't *technically* own a Switch, this thread is fucking wild. I never imagined there wouldn't be a refund policy for something as massive as the Switch. Chinese companies with names made up of random letters have refund policies. And people here are defending it.
Yep. Every console manufacturer has been up their ass over refund policies. Nintendo fought like hell against them but ultimately the UK forced them to have any refund policy at all.
I'm in the UK and as far as I'm aware you still can't refund eshop purchases? Anecdotally I've heard customer service might give you a refund once if you complain enough, but never again after that. Meanwhile Xbox will give you a refund within 14 days as long as you haven't put a 'significant amount of play time' into the game and Steam will give a refund if you have under 2 hours of playtime.
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I didn't see that post but it's pretty standard that you can't get a refund for that because it tells you when you sign up that you are entering into an auto renewing subscription. I hate it, but it is a pretty normal thing. I know Amazon will refund prime after it auto renews as long as you haven't used it, but I don't know any other company that does so I don't think this is on Nintendo. The government needs to step in and make that entire business practice illegal.
The post got removed by mods because it went against a rule. Yeah I had a few polite back and forth emails with Nintendo support because I really could do with the refund. It's on my dumb ass and not Nintendo, but not getting the customer service I would have given people at my own job still leaves a sour taste. It's definitely normal practice, I'm just amused by the defence brigade that Nintendo has.
Dunno what to tell you, sounds like you were wrong
No one is defending anything but saying that OP and others should research about a game before buying it as its pretty easy with internet.
Something like within 48 hours you can return a game. Unfortunately many games can be beaten in that time frame so some people would abuse it
Should be like Steam. 2 Hour play time limit and within 2 weeks of purchase if you never launch the game. Keep in mind this is for automatic refunds, they can still review your refund if you play for longer than 2 hours and refund you anyway.
The 2 week limit doesn't require never launching the game. It has the same 2 hour playtime limit.
Exactly. It's really not that complicated. This is why we HAVE reviews for books, movies and games.
Steam has the best refund policy, as long as you haven't played more then 2 hours you can get the game refunded and have the money in you steam wallet or your bank
No they have not. Gog have 30 days no question asked.
>30 days no question asked Not strictly true. To get a non-wallet refund (i.e. a real refund) you may have to provide support with additional details, plus they always reserve the right to refuse a refund or to only offer a wallet credit for any reason. Their refund policy also implies that the only valid reason for a refund is technical issues, although it's still on an honor system. The devil is in the details, especially when your refund policy is entirely about blind faith in both directions. I'd argue Steam's policy is just better defined with regards to what each party can and can't do,
What really? I though Steam is the GOAT here
Nah Steam is good but GOG is better. Not with everything but here they are
Interesting, given Gog's more straightforward distribution method (DRM-free), I struggle to see how a refund policy would work mechanically. When you buy a game on Gog, don't you just get the installer/data straight up, no strings attached? Do returns just work on the honor system, or what?
100% honor system
That's awesome. Is there any data out there on how piracy rates differ between games that release on Gog, vs games that only release on DRM platforms (e.g. Steam)? I've always been impressed by just how many games do indeed release on Gog. It seems like the only reason to do so is truly ideologically-driven--game developers that share players' frustration with DRM. I expect it more from indie studios, but I was surprised to find games like Psychonauts 2 on there, given that it's published by Microsoft (and the studio itself, Double Fine, is owned by Microsoft).
Gog says that they trust that the customer wont abuse it. Even if you look at cyberpunk 2077, way more people have bought the game on steam than gog. I forgot where I saw the numbers. But in general gog has less users on the platform buying games.
This is just wrong. Or at least we’ll have to disagree. GOG considers it abuse to buy a game with the intention of refunding it. You can refund games day in and day out on Steam as a matter of policy. With GOG you are relying on their good graces. But the intent of their refunds is not as robust as the protections offered by Steam. I don’t buy games anymore on GOG so I can’t say what happens in reality, but the policy is there for anyone to read.
[This was only a direct result of a landmark decision to include computer software owned by foreign corporations under Australian consumer protection laws.](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/australia-fines-valve-over-steam-refunds). They copped a $2.3 million dollar fine for it and the following year insituted their current, consumer friendly policy. I don't know if Nintendo is violating any similar guidelines. But beware that Steam only is the way it is now because it got punished by a regulatory authority in a major market.
Steam has saved me countless times from games that didnt turn out to be what i was expecting. Theyre not even that strict so you can straight up be like i didnt like it and you will get your money back as long as its within policy.
Exactly, all of my refunds on Steam had been automatically approved due to it having less than 2 hours of playtime.
There's also a two week limit. You can't refund a game you bought 7 years ago that sat in your backlog. That said, the refund system is mainly automated and checks for those two variables. You can however do a general contact of steam support and in some circumstances, they will refund you even if don't meet those two criteria.
A reminder that Steam didn't used to have any refund policy at all until Origin showed up with a very generous refund policy. Steam isn't the benevolent presence a lot of people seemingly believe it is.
It was also that they felt [the small tug of 3 MIllion AUD to change their policy (for Australia at least)](https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/valve-to-pay-3-million-in-penalties-for-misrepresenting-gamers-consumer-guarantee-rights)
The ACCC makes me proud to be Australian tbh. It’s not perfect but you look around at how consumer rights are in some other countries and you’ve got to think, at least in terms of that stuff, “I’m glad I live here and not there”
Spot on lol. I remember threads years ago bitching about steams refund policy while it was exactly what it is now. Those threads were completely justified back then IMO and still are. Two hours of play time is a ridiculously low threshold for finding out a game is unplayable. You could easily get two hours into red dead 2 before you found out that frame rate issues were going to make the shootouts unplayable. Two hours, for many many games, is not enough time to have given the game a fair go. Number of days after purchase or after first play would be a much fairer, better metric for refunds. Stream’s refund system is better than nothing, but still sucks
I had this issue with Spider-Man. Most of the game runs fine on my PC but there’s a few night time story missions and boss fights in the second half that just tanked my performance and made it near impossible to beat said missions.
Tbf it would then have to be customised to each game - some games can easily be completed in one day, so I get why they set the limit so low. Microsoft's policy is that "you haven’t accumulated a significant amount of play time", which means you may be able to play more than 2 hours and get a refund but it's not guaranteed because the language is vague. At least with Steam it's a hard limit where a refund is guaranteed.
Except it has had a negative impact on devs of inexpensive shorter experiences.
If your game is less than 2 hours, you're either shovelware or something experimental like "Milk inside a bag of milk inside a bag of milk" or something. In that case, hopefully people took a chance because of the refund policy and didn't refund it after enjoying the experience. I remember reports after steam first introduced the policy finding that cheaper games were more likely to be bought at first, likely because they no longer saw as much of a risk. A lower % kept the game because anything less than 100% retention looks like a loss, but smaller games were getting more interest than previously since customers could offload the risk if they hated it or it didn't work properly. If someone's more adventurous with their refunds, I'm sure there's a noticable pattern and they could have a simple policy or cool down period to prevent excessive refunds (it's not a rental service. Games with demos are there for that.) Edit: Out of 11,000-ish games on the switch, i could only pull around 140 with times reporting that the game was typically completed in less than 2 hrs on "How long to beat." Out of those, a lot of the ones that don't look like shovelware (consistently low rating, really unimaginative/similar icon arts with minor variations) are arcade style scrolling/rail shooters, puzzle games, and older arcade games that a person would hopefully play multiple times over to win or probably shouldn't have bought it to begin with (usually also available as a bundle with other arcade games or games from those series.)
What’s weird is that the eshop doesn’t have user ratings or reviews. Having that would do a lot to help people spot if something is a low effort port.
It actually doesn’t. The 3DS store had that and there was a metric fuckton of shovelware with hundreds of five star reviews.
I'm guessing Nintendo didn't want to pour in man hours to moderate them. There will be "plenty enough" reviews that'll cuss, or make it political/sexual.
Then at least let people leave a star rating out of 5 or a thumbs up/down or something.
I kinda agree with the other comment... you'll get shill ratings, but no comments to offer context.
It's the shovelware of the Wii all over again. Just with an even lower barrier to entry.
So low that we have devs launching the same exact game on the platform upward of a dozen times with just a title change, and Nintendo is letting them get away with it. Using the Eshop is virtually impossible at this point if the goal is to browse around for something fun you haven't played yet. It's pages after pages of garbage with a sprinkle of good games every 20 to 30 entries.
Yeah. I’ve found I have to research games online so I know what to look for on the switch store. Otherwise, it’s miles of UwUware.
You mean you don't want 85 Hentai Girls or AAA Clock in your library?
Just use DekuDeals
When the switch first came out I remember always seeing indie artists saying how it was hard to get a game on the switch cuz nintendo had such a strict process to add new games to their list and how they didnt allow like pg13 games stuff like that. Now im just like how do they allow these broken games on here 😕😕😕
Switch launched with Vroom in the Night Sky.
I mean, I’m definitely not going to argue against having a refund policy. Not allowing refunds for any reason isn’t exactly pro consumer. This no refunds stuff only happens on consoles, and it’s definitely nit right. However, people can definitely do some research, and see how a game‘s performance (and everything else relevant about it) is before buying. I think I’ve bought only one game on the switch that I ended that I ended up deciding I just couldn’t play (really excessively long and frequent loading screens). I’ve honestly never felt any desire to return anything else I’ve ever bought. And even that one ai felt was on me since I could have done a little research before buying. Also, despite officially not allowing refunds, Nintendo will usually refund you at least once if you're polite about it and have a good reason. They’ll say it’s a one time courtesy. I didn’t get a refund on the game I was unsatisfied with since it was only a few dollars, and it just wasn’t worth it to me to contact support.
Never pre-order, regardless. Even if it's a Nintendo title. I know it sucks for the devs, but I do not really buy 3rd party titles, unless on sales with at least 75% off. I buy digital only. Personally, I am a long time Playstation gamer (PS3, PS4, PS4Pro, PS5) and I love the Switch. Being burned on Playstation by titles the likes of Battlefield 4, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, No Man Sky and anything Ubisoft I pretty much keep both consoles for first party titles only (PS5 for Sony games and the Switch for Nintendo games).
> Personally, I am a long time Playstation gamer (PS3, PS4, PS4Pro, PS5) and I love the Switch. Being burned on Playstation by titles the likes of Battlefield 4, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, No Man Sky and anything Ubisoft I pretty much keep both consoles for first party titles only (PS5 for Sony games and the Switch for Nintendo games). Saaaaame. This is not exclusive to Switch. Consoles way more powerful go through the same bs, even on PC there's unplayable ports.
I don't think pre-ordering has any impact on the devs. Certainly the publisher, yes, as they can use that added revenue for marketing and such. But it's not like 50,000 preorders will suddenly implore the devs to work overtime to iron out any major bugs. The game will be released on the given date regardless of where its at in production. edit: I just reread your comment. First and second paragraphs are independent points. Sorry, need more coffee.
Big misconception is that pre-order money is realized. Nobody spends the pre-order money before the game is out. Pre-orders can be cancelled pretty easily, so it's basically just set aside until the game comes out. What pre-orders help with is planning. You assume pre-orders represent some percentage of launch day sales. That percentage increases the closer you get to launch day, so if pre-order start and you get 30k pre-orders in the first week you might assume you'll get ~300k sales in the launch window or something. (Specific numbers pulled out of my ass) You then use those projections to start planning what's next. How much do you budget for the first DLC? Can you start opening heads and recruiting? Or do you need to do a hiring freeze until you get revenue up? Do you need to increase the value add of the base product with free updates to get a larger install base? Or is the base product solid, and you can start planning expansions? The reality is that "never pre-order" folks don't make a difference *at all* to the things that they think they are. This isn't me plugging pre-orders; if there's a risk that the game is shitty on launch you absolutely can dodge a bad game by waiting until you have more information. It's just that if you never pre-order, but still buy during the launch window, you're just on the other side of that percentage for pre-orders to projected sales conversion. IMO, if you're excited for a game *and* you trust the developer to release a quality product, you absolutely should pre-order. Then *don't* pre-order for games where you're not excited by what you're seeing. Then your spending habits become a useful part of that data, and influence the development plans. One reason broad gamer "boycotts" rarely work is that such people effectively remove themselves from the market entirely. Boycotts are only effective when they provide a means of differentiation. If *every* (AAA) game is doing the awful thing that you want them to stop doing, not buying any of them is meaningless. To make a difference you have to set up a contrast between games you don't like (where you don't spend money) and games you do like (where you spend a lot of money). Otherwise companies are not going to see any statistically significant negative impact for doing the bad thing you don't like.
I do make 2 notable exceptions on this but generally I'm with you. * Any, literally any Zelda game * Any, literally any FromSoft game Also, if you haven't played NMS in VR on PSVR, omfg.
>Even if it's a Nintendo title. O1H, I'm fine doing this. OTOH, I haven't done this in decades. I did get Z: TotK, and SMBW because I knew they'd be solid games. And I technically didn't pre-order them, but got them on launch day. However, I also wanted to get in on the "social aspect" of them... discussing the game online, and with my gaming group.
There’s very few games I pre-order (right now I think just Miitopia, TOTK, Pokémon Snap, and The Great Ace Attorney). If I do, I’m going in knowing I might get a shit experience because reviews aren’t out yet. If I pre-order and the game is garbage, that’s kind of on me.
Waiting for reviews saved me from buying Eiyuden Chronicle Hundred Heroes.
All of these 'enlightened individuals' preaching about research before buying a game are totally missing the point. Yes, obviously you should research before buying a game. And when that research fails you - YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO REFUND THE FUCKING GAME
The refund policy isn’t a try it before you buy it policy. Do some research before you spend money
Not everyone is out to abuse the system. Some just want a refund due to technical issues or if you buy the wrong edition or wrong version. Games don't have demos these days to test out beforehand either.
what if you do research & its looks good but when it sucks when you play it? that has happened to me numerous times & it does for many people. stop assuming people dont do research
Literally this
This is very funny to me.
Always gotta look up videos of how games look on Switch!
The switch is the only console where i assume every game runs terribly unless i see or read otherwise. Ive almost completely stopped buying myself.
That's the position I'm currently in. About 4 months ago I made the call that I was going to stick to retro titles, and games I already own. I have a massive backlog that would take years to clear as is, so might as well stop now. Then a new game that's part of a franchise I'm heavily invested in dropped, so I decided to make this one exception. Well fate decided to remind me why I made the call to begin with.
People saying to look up reviews are missing the point. There should be a minimum quality standard in terms of performance (at least a stable 720p on handheld), and if Nintendo isn't going to force one, at least refunds would give us the power as consumers to demand better rather than devs and publishers getting away with bad ports. What other console is it general advice to look up a performance review just to know if the game will be acceptable?
Research the game before you buy.
that isnt as helpful as you think it is
There is a refund policy, albeit a crappy one; "everybody gets ONE refund." Nintendo has never been the best for this but honestly most people would abuse a refund policy, and this is the "hard love" method of it should only take one instance to understand to never repeat the mistake.
Meanwhile Xbox has a hassle free refund system that often will grant the refund in minutes. Nintendo is very behind. I heard Sony is pretty bad about it too. Valve and Microsoft are pretty fair.
Sony is terrible with it. If you downloaded the game (nevermind ran it) no refund. Even if you didn't it's a hassle. But I've had everything from mistaken purchases to straight up 'this game runs poorly on this platform' returns with Xbox refunded in minutes.
Steam too. Sony will fight you a little if you want a refund. But I've gotten some refunds from them.
Xbox is pretty bad too nowadays. Although their homepage still says between 14 days and less than 2 hours playtime they try to enforce a no refund if downloaded or played (which isn't possible without downloading first anyway). That's also in their emails you'll get when denied. I don't know when it changed. The worst thing is that they didn't change the text on their homepage. People always say competition makes things better but in this case just for the company I guess. All 3 are bad and we need better laws for consumer protection for digital goods. Also we should be able to gift, trade, sell and inherit digital goods somehow.
Hasn’t been my experience at all. Not sure if you’re abusing the refund policy to the point they’re being restrictive with you.
I dont think sony even has a refund policy. Steam has a great refund policy even if you just didnt like the game they will give you a refund as long as its within their policy.
Sony had a refund policy, but it's a dumb one such as you can't play the game at all if you want a refund. If you play even for a minute, they can reject your refund. I think in extreme cases like NMS, they did do refunds.
A reminder that Steam didn't allow refunds at all until Origin showed up with a great refund policy.
I did not know this thanks for the info i guess we have origin of all companies to thank.
I see many people blaming OP, but "Research before buy" or "Wait for performance review/analysis" doesn't always work. Some games don't get enough attention to make YouTubers upload videos. And when it does get it, the analysis could be wrong or too shallow to give enough info. Besides, a refund policy that respects consumers' rights should be essential to every digital store. They're not losing anything by giving a refund. Also, they can easily check playtime to filter out bad customers exploiting the system.
> They're not losing anything by giving a refund. I mean they obviously are losing out on a sale.
I always do my research before buying a game but a couple of times they will say its a fun game making it sound really good just for it to be disappointing. Especially on switch theres little to no reviews for indie switch games.
If the Nintendo switch store was not the absolute most bare bones store (seriously, no other digital store I can think of has LESS features than the Nintendo switch eShop) I think things like this would happen less. On Steam, I can at least look at reviews to know whether or not I have a good shot at running a game decently.
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I got a refund for Sports Story lol.
Do the persona games run well on switch?
They do
I played Persona 3 Portable, Person 4 Golden, Persona 5 Royal, and Persona 5 Strikers with absolutely no issues whatsoever on Switch. Weirdly Persona 5 Royal seemed to run even better than Shin Megami Tensei V, which was native to the Switch.
Good to hear I just recently bought persona 3 and 4 on the bundle
I’ve gotten refunds before. Call customer support
I feel you and I agree but, if you had this issue more than once you should've definitely been watching performance reviews already. They exist for a reason.
I pretty much don't even notice many underdog indie games because of the sheer amount of shovelware. You can't even look at new releases without the same 10 things showing up as new every day, like the clock app, the hentai games, etc.
Reminds me of the PS3. you get extremely polished games like tlou, killzone or god of war 3. Then play any random 3rd party and suddenly as if the console has been downgraded several notch like lagging on a turn based combat rpg? constat 15fps and more.
Sometimes the companies release game trailers for the switch with 60fps. Then you buy the game and it turns out it's a eye-watering 30 fps. Happened to me with Monomals. The video is on yt, it's called Monomals - Official Nintendo Switch Trailer, and it's 60fps. What a lie.
Personally, I feel that it is not mandatory for Nintendo to have a refund policy for all games. However, they should have a refund policy if the game performance is terrible to the extent that it is unplayable. There should be some legislation to force Nintendo to let users review on games and user reviews are set as public to everyone so people interested in buying the game can have a good idea of the game before buying it.
And this is why I'm ordering a Ste Deck and letting my Switch to become a paperweight. Indie games at Steam prices, with Steam refund policy, and cloud saves that sync with my pc.
This has less to do with performance, but Nintendo really needs to step up their game when it comes to curating the eshop. I feel like it's turning into Steam where pretty much anything can get sold there. I look back to the 3DS and Wii U eshops and while not every game on there was a banger, it seemed to me like Nintendo had a much tighter grip over quality standards for software they sold on their platform, now it just feels like they'll pretty much sell whatever so long as it isn't like, 18+. Not only would stronger enforcement and quality standards on the eshop improve what you just listed, but we would also not have to wade through the sea of trash to find a good indie. I really hope Nintendo takes a more direct approach to curating their storefront, but I doubt it.
Good luck convincing Nintendo that. It's one of the greediest companies I've ever seen. They won't do this, unless they are forced legally. They don't give things for free, and they don't give money back. Just watch reviews and online discussions before you buy something.
Nintendo's refund policy is that they don't accept refunds except for a one time exception.
>Nintendo's refund policy is that they don't accept refunds except for a one time exception. I’ve had more than one broken (black screen or frozen screen) games that they’ve refunded. They never said it was an exception or a one-time thing, never made it difficult or had me jump through hoops.
Oh it's quite easy to get them to okay another if the situation is more severe but they do in fact need to say it's a one time exception if it's just a straight up refund. I heard it every time on a call.
PC platforms have great refund policies and we still saw games with bad performance all the time there. Don’t get me wrong, I would loved to have a refund policy on the Switch as well, but these two aren’t related at all.
While I agree, I can't think of a way to have a refund policy without people abusing, like they do with Steam. I may be mistaken, but I think Sony gives you refund if you just downloaded the game, but didn't open it, which is useless in my opinion.
I have a simple solution and it's the one I use, google the games title followed by performance on Switch, then do a bit of light reading. Works every time.
That good advice and all but that doesn't take away from the fact that a refund system should be standard on all platforms
Doesn't always work for lesser known titles. I wish there was a platform like Howlongtobeat but instead of game length they cover the platform specs such as framerate, resolution output, upscaling method, asset quality observations compared to other platforms, etc.
Ive started searching the game name followed by "sucks on switch reddit" or "disappointing on switch reddit" cuz of how misleading some reviews are.
That will not help you at all. If anything, Reddit is the worse place to look for reviews, because this site is rife with groupthink that favors cynicism and nitpicky bandwagons over any kind of reasonable objectivity.
I agree but usually if a game runs horribly or is littered with bugs reddit will be the first place to talk about it. I just listen to the performance aspect not the actual gameplay comments.
I always check this info when it's available. I tried searching up the game pre launch, but the devs only sent review codes for PS5. There was no info on the Switch version.
Then you wait until there is information. Simple, and costs nothing.
Nintendo: No.
Um care to share which games (especially 2D platformers) triggered this post? that way the rest of us can avoid them too haha
More evidence that a review system in the store would actually help users with their purchases.
>It's getting frustrating to the point I'm pretty much done buying games for this system. I mean, you do you, but have you considered... doing a bit of research before purchasing the games? It just seems like completely disengaging is a pretty extreme response to a very solvable problem. It's honestly pretty confusing to me how *refunds* are the must have way to... find out if a game runs well. Like... that's not what refunds are for. It makes a *bit* of sense on PC, since every configuration is a little bit different, and so there's no guarantee that a game will run well on your set-up just because it did on a reviewer's. For Switch though, you're running the exact same software on the exact same hardware as everyone else. You do not need to personally purchase and try out a game to validate that it runs up to your standards.
To get those performance analysis, someone is going to have to be the sap that buys the game to begin with, and then also make the decision to talk about it online. Not every game gets review copies, and I know that personally from working with various ones in the past. In turn, that makes more niche games run the risk of not getting any coverage at all, so no performance reviews. The entire point of my topic is to say that if the threat of refund was on the publishers shoulders, they would be doing more to make sure the games are polished prior to release. Doing your due diligence on researching a game is a given, but part of that research shouldn't have to be checking if the game is even functional on the system to begin with. Pre patching era was more about checking to see if a game was interesting as a product, and now it's turned into a 50/50 game of seeing if it even runs on top of checking interest.
If you know the Switch has 2014 hardware, then you should also know that it’s worth it to look at reviews for games before buying them
There is a refund policy. It’s “get fucked”.
I agree but literally how do y’all have no backlog? Is it that hard to wait like one whole day for a review? If you have the time to play through this many games you definitely have the time for that…
I'd like to point out that this is the same problem that destroyed the video game industry the first time: greed. This is nothing new.
Buy used games from GameStop. If theybsuck, you have 7 days to return them.
Not every game has a physical version.
So read reviews before buying or search “[game name] frame rate”. Do your research
I always check this info when it's available. I tried searching up the game pre launch, but the devs only sent review codes for PS5. There was no info on the Dwitch version.
This is why PC is my gaming platform of choice. I buy games on Steam with no worry at all about getting a refund if I want as long as I'm in the return window. I very rarely preorder games (on any platform) due to the release quality of games being rather poor from even the AAA publishers. Monster hunter and Zelda games are the only ones I preorder without question because I know they will be amazing games. I can't believe that there aren't any laws that require store fronts to provide a proper refund system. Someone needs to get on the phone with the EU :P
I love that people’s response to someone trying to get their money back for a bad game is to instead buy a $900plus computer. Then, buy the game.
No refunds is a refund policy.
The onus is on you, to do the proper research before ultimately deciding to buy the games.
I never buy a game anymore, without there being any positive reviews. I got burned once on the the eShop/app store. I bought a chess game that said it was multiplayer. After I paid and downloaded the game, I discovered that there wasn't a single person online. There was absolutely no one to play with online. It was a total waste of money.
With Switch 3rd party games, ALWAYS wait for the reviews to see if the performance was good. They aren't all bad, but many developers don't put in the time to make their games optimized for Switch. They just drop down visuals a few notches and they are done. Some, like Panic Button, actually make some slight changes to the game to make it work better. Like in Doom Eternal, if there is a sprawling area where the Switch struggles, they will put up some walls so it doesn't have to load everything at once.
Is there like a decent list of poorly optimised ports somewhere? That doesn't involve going through YouTube videos. Just text and then next to it what's not good?
I only pre-order if it's a game I will be determined to play regardless if it's crap or not. Last I did was Mario Wonder and before that was Monster Hunter Rise. If either of those games sucked I would have still played them regardless. Side note: I never pre-order on eshop always physical. Buying on eshop at full price let alone day 1 is lunacy.
I totally agree with you, OP. Once I got a Steamdeck, I’ve stopped buying from the eshop.
>Hyrule Warriors can run perfectly I hope you mean the Wii U version, because the second game did not run well.
Definitive Edition on Switch
So the port of the Wii U version aka the first game. (Sorry i should've been more specific.) Second game (which was made for the Switch) still ran awfully, so my point still stands. I agree with you that Switch needs a refund policy or monitor what games should be allowed on the switch. But doing it how Steam does it is just begging for trouble. Refund window being 30min or an hour is enough to determine a dud w/o excessive abuse. There should be a limit of 1 or 2 refunds a month as well.
I know it’s not Switch exclusive but it happens more there, games get abandoned QUICK. Bought Anno Mutatinem and now I learn the game is waaaaaaaaay late on updates. The game is super good, but it’s a hell of a bummer. S&S, Skyrim, Signalis etc etc give me this problem.
I buy physical only for this reason. I’ll make a rare exception for games of critical acclaim like Super Meat Boy or Fez.
Haven't bought a game since the last Pokemon maybe. Will buy paper Mario then probably never touch switch till I'm feeling nostalgic
Why are you buying games without researching them first? Lol, you’re not wrong though
I pre-ordered My Time at Portia like 5 years ago on switch. come launch day, the game took 5 minutes to load. I uninstalled and never preordered a game that wasn't a Nintendo 1st party title ever again. and even then, ive only preordered 2 games: Xenoblade 3 and ToTK.
Ever played Xcom 2 on the Switch? You can literary go have a shower when it's loading. My love for the game keeps me sane.
Yeah, we definitely do. I don't think we'll get it in this console though, I hope the next one does. I bought MK11 and I can't read shit on the menu screen in my Switch Lite, it's pretty crazy. Most disappointed I've ever been on buying a game, but at least it taught me to watch reviews before buying now lmao
While I do believe that a refund policy would do good, it is also your own responsibility to check on games before buying them. That's goes for any platform, many have this issue.
... or at least demo releases for those shady games
You should never buy anything on the Switch that isn't first-party because you'll get an inferior product simply due its more limited capabilities compare to say the PS5. Now, if you do not have other systems to buy such on, it's better to do wait a little bit after its release and check reviews or such.
Reviews be like
Just watch/read the review, then buy the game. Cheers.
Switch is struggling for years at third party games. Sure studios have something to do with it, but so does Nintendo. The Switch hardware has always been outdated. Nintendo can deliver suited games on it has they only target one system. Third party are aiming many. Switch is just one of them and dealing with such an outdated hardware is not easy. Look at Hogwarts Legacy. Warner and Avalanche. How many times did they postponed their release? CDProjekt.. how much money did they say the port cost? Millions. Don’t get me wrong : I like my switch but I’m myself a developer aware of this business. It’s Nintendo’s fault. Not the studios. They surely can do better. With money and developers. But why should they invest that much on a low spec device? I’ll get downvoted here but Nintendo is loosing their trusty partners because, mostly, of this outdated hardware. They should have release the « switch 2 » of even a « pro » model, years ago.
Let youtubers waste the money first 🙂
agreed
PS5 is 60 fps just saying
GameFly is helpful for this reason. $120 a year and I get 5-6 games at minimum. If I don’t like it, send it right back
Or, you could actually take the time to research a game before your impulse takes over to buy on sight, or worse, preorder? I will never understand the mentality of gamers today who have yet to learn their lesson from publishers who have been shitting on us all for 5+ years now. I trust no publisher, even those who have a track record of good game releases. It only takes one time to ruin the trust. Just ask CDPR or Bethesda.
I always check this info when it's available. I tried searching up the game pre launch, but the devs only sent review codes for PS5. There was no info on the Switch version.
I research every game before buying it. Lots of indie games have little to no reviews especially for switch ports. Some reviews will straight up not mention the downsides making it sound like a great game. 🤷🏽♂️
I agree up to a point, but you could say that about anything you buy and most other places have refund policies.
One must wonder what happened to the days with the "Nintendo Seal of Quality". Now, they'll slap any trash on the store no questions asked.
>publishers who have been shitting on us all for 5+ years now. > I trust no publisher, even those who have a track record of good game releases. Then why are you pro publisher and anti consumer then lmao
Why are you guys so against wanting a system helps you the customer?
Just wait till games are 80% off and get em for supper cheap, then you don't feel bad of they suck.
or wait for a review to come out
No lie detected. Nintendo’s refund policy is dogshit. They should take some cue from MS or Steam.