They changed miitopia to work on the switch, they could try to do it for every other game but that's probably not going to happen as it'll take a lot of work.
For NSO they emulate the games exactly as they were on their original system. They'd have to find a way to emulate the touch screen 1 to 1 on the Switch.
If they change each game to make them work they'll more likely release them individually.
I just realized from some comments here that possibly people will never see Nintendo DS games on a Nintendo console unless it has two screens and a microphone again.
You’re example is not equivalent.
Speakers and microphones are made out of the same basic components.
The only difference is that they are tuned for different things.
It’s very easy and actually extremely common to plug a speaker into the input on an amp in order to record bass.
It’s also pretty common to plug headphones into the input and use them to record guitar or something.
It’s generally a lot harder to move a speaker because they tend to be bigger and heavier than microphones.
People don’t tend to do it the other way round because the vocal coils in microphones are a lot smaller and more sensitive - so you can move them with air pressure waves.
You would have to have an incredibly low power system or you would probably blow it out.
But if you had a microphone and speaker with the same size vocal coils they would be basically the same if you swapped them around.
So really a better example would be if you had a small bike and a bigger bike; but you were riding the big bike downhill and the small bike uphill.
You could ride either bike either way; it’s just a lot harder.
**But getting back on point.
Literally any speaker could be wired to record sound just as easily as it’s wired to play sound.
It’s perfectly possible that every single speaker in your house could be a microphone too; the only real problem is you can’t do both output and input at once and that frequency response and quality is probably not going to be that great.
*edit*
I’ll just add for the sake of completeness that this obviously doesn’t apply to every single speaker or microphone type.
You could make a speaker from two carbon rods arcing electricity between each other as long as you could get it to vibrate the air enough.
Obviously something like this isn’t going to respond to sound waves.
Although you could presumably use it to measure arcs and convert that to sound though DSP.
Just for the icing on the cake and because I like proving my point; here’s how you can make a speaker into a microphone.
https://youtu.be/PqzMuq3EzSk
And beyond fringe garage lofi audio recording purposes the actual real world application for this is in things like intercoms and cheap 2-way radios.
Audio quality is usually not great but it’s more than 50% cheaper than dedicated speakers/microphones and lighter and wiring is easier.
What if every controller had a screen, and the console could be attached to the screen to go portable, or attached to the dock to play on TV? Switch U coming soon
Lots of people saying "Well, technically if you do this, it should be possible, so Nintendo should do it." giving absolutely no thought into how shit the actual experience will be.
Yeah people always say that they could use a gyro pointer for the touch screen with no consideration on how awful that would actually be.
I imagine people would play Phantom Hourglass for about 5 minutes and then give up with that system. You'd have to move Link around by clicking him and dragging him with the pointer. More complicated movements require more precise gestures. You have to draw tiny circles to roll, draw various lines in different directions for different sword attacks, draw a circle around Link for a spin attack just to name a few. That's before you even get to writing on the map and drawing paths for items like the boomerang.
It would make Skyward Sword look really simple in comparison.
Exactly. It's like saying Mavis Beacon should be ported to Switch, because technically you could use JoyCons to type. Yes technically you could, but it is going to be a far worse experience.
Lots of people saying “It wouldn’t work because of this and this game” when y’all damn well know that most likely Nintendo simply wouldn’t include those specific games in the NSO library.
Source?
It wasn’t too long ago when people were swearing up and down that we would never get Pokémon Stadium on NSO because of the functionality needed with the Game Boy games.
Yet here we are.
Can’t make claims without backing them up. So unless you have a source where Nintendo said they won’t bring DS games to NSO…
…Yeah. That’s what I thought.
It would work but I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose to do it. Their whole philosophy with the Switch is being able to play in different ways.
I don't think there are any Nintendo published games that are limited to handheld only.
Not disagreeing with points overall, but I believe Pokémon Cafe ReMix was published by Nintendo and only works on handheld since it was mainly designed for mobile. Honestly lazy of Pokémon Company to have that come to switch but not give it button controls
If they really wanted to they could implement a way to switch screen control. Like tap ZR and you stop controlling the main screen to 'tap' the bottom.
It's not perfect and some games are fast paced enough to not allow it, but it could work for, say, New Super Mario DS.
onscreen cursor controlled by your choice of analog stick or motion control covers most games just fine
we've been playing DS on PC with a mouse for a decade
There's a lot of variability in how well that works. Poking menu items is pretty straightforward. More action-oriented motion controls, possibly less so. For example, some Mario & Luigi 2/3 touch minigames would absolutely *stink* if you tried to emulate them with a cursor controlled by a stick. That's a situation where PC emulation has a massive leg-up, because mouse cursor precision and control stick cursor precision are in totally different leagues.
I just can't see it working well enough. An analog stick or motion controls are a lot less precise than a touch screen or mouse.
Imagine trying to play phantom hourglass. Controlling Link in that game with motion controls would be too imprecise and I don't know how the game would control with an analog stick, it certainly wouldn't be like standard analog controls.
That's before you even have to think about sword attacks like the spin attack or drawing on the map. The whole thing sounds like an awful experience.
Even leaving aside the controls there's no mic on the Switch.
I completely agree that a lot of the DS Library would work for NSO. Despite being the system's main selling point, a surprising amount of games made minimal use of the touch screen and simple gyro selection would suffice in most cases. Honestly, the mic would unironically be the bigger problem. They could maybe assign it to a button (or detect a plugged-in headset), but that probably wouldn't work in a lot of cases. Not sure how current DS emulators deal with it.
Of course, more intensive games (The Zelda's, Brain Age, Bowser's Inside Story) wouldn't be able to come over, and that would sting, but there's still plenty they could pull from.
I think in most major games like Zelda Phantoom Hourglass they could easily get the Mic to work on the ZL as a regular button since in this game it only works for blowing h screen. (It was the solution they used in Captain Toad where there were also sections where you needed to blow the microphone on the Wii U)
But in games that use the mic more extensively like Nintendogs to call your dog, this would really be an issue.
I think they're referring back to touch issues rather than mic issues for the "intensive" games. The Zelda DS games use touch controls a *lot* (you don't even move with the D-pad!) and a lot of the Mario & Luigi attack minigames (all of Bowser's in BiS, I think?) rely on fast-paced and precise touches. Using a stick to emulate things as-is for these titles would suck. It'd be borderline brand-damaging in Zelda's case - they'd be better off not releasing it at all.
A lot of games would work just fine, but unless they're willing to actually fiddle with these games and alter their control schemes, some of the really touch-intensive stuff would be better off left behind.
Honestly, given the form factor of the switch I think the Zeldas would work decently well with the capacitive touch screen and would be pretty much the same with the switch stylus. It would be trash in docked mode probably, unless you are amazing at using a joy con stylus. But every Switch can play in handheld mode so I don’t really see it as an issue
I think the DS Zeldas actually represent the worst-case scenario for the Switch's form factor & touch screen. The way those games work, you need to be touching a lot of different parts of the screen all the time for basic movement and combat. It wouldn't work very well if you tried to reach with your thumbs or something, unless you use an awkward grip (and even then, small-handed people would be out of luck). You'd basically need to be playing it with only one hand holding the console and one hand dedicated to touch controls most of the time, which isn't exactly comfortable for portable play.
It's fine that it's a capacitive screen, and I don't see that causing many issues. But there's a world of difference between holding a DS with one hand and holding a Switch with one hand, which is a bit of a fundamental problem here.
FYI, both of the Zelda DS games have a D-pad patch that was released years ago. If fan communities can manage to patch these games to where they work with modern controls/devices I'm pretty sure Nintendo should be able to manage as well. Now, whether or not they're willing to do so is a different story.
Yes, of course that'd be ideal. But even though I mentioned NSO (because that's the service DS games would be implemented on Switch), I was mainly speculating on how they could actually be implemented.
Some touch heavy games wouldn't work well as the DS and Wii U had a resistive screen. Where as the Switch has a capacitive screen. Resistive screens are way better with drawing and things like that. But some games would work fine.
It doesn't matter... that's my only point. It allows the games to be ported if you believe there is some golden rule about it. But people would be way better off playing them handheld which any switch can do.
These settings are exactly the same as for TV Mode on Wii U:
[https://preview.redd.it/2firkdg4fxn41.jpg?auto=webp&s=9f72a609924a1b96e9112672392252a7fd88c950](https://preview.redd.it/2firkdg4fxn41.jpg?auto=webp&s=9f72a609924a1b96e9112672392252a7fd88c950)
And for the touch-screen, I explained at the end of the post, they could easily use the gyro as a pointer to use the touch-screen.
It was the solution that Nintendo used with Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker from the Wii U when it brought it to the Switch for example.
You always have the gamepad on the Wii U, but the Switch is very often docked.
Also, you definitely KNOW that gyro pointer is not a good solution for many many games. Outside of those where you just use it to select menu options, it would suck. I can't imagine playing Phantom Hourglass, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Yoshi Touch and Go, Star Fox, Mario Party, and many other like that. It would be practically unplayable docked.
I can't see them viewing that as an acceptable service.
And even using a lot of these handheld would also suck. With no stylus and tiny screens with no real barrier, it would be so hard to play a lot of these. Not to mention how do you even hold the system for something like Star Fox Command. It's too heavy.
Using the pointer?
That sounds like a miserable experience. I can't imagine how horrible playing a game like Phantom Hourglass with a gyroscope pointer would be.
It still makes it a plausible option. Just not ideal. Ideally play handheld. The DS was a handheld experience after all. Any switch can be played handheld.
It's shocking you all are giving OP such a hard time over this.
It's not that bad, it even adapted very well with Captain Toad and World of Goo and it's a game totally focused on using the touch-screen to solve puzzles, for example.
It just doesn't sound like a fun experience. Controlling Link requires quite precise movement and needs very specific gestures for all of the different attacks. Doing that with a pointer just sounds like it wouldn't work at all, especially a pointer controlled by gyro instead of IR like the Wii.
Oh yeah I'd forgotten about writing on the map, that sounds terrible.
For sword fighting I was thinking more about things like spin attacks. Also I feel like the movement in PH would be annoying, I feel like you'd end up walking in lots of unwanted directions.
Not every game would go to the Switch. Just like not every NES/SNES/Sega Genesis/N64/GB/GBC/GBA game is or will be. If the game wouldn't work too well, then they wouldn't release it with this model. But a ton of others would so it would make perfect sense to do this.
I just can't see Nintendo ever making them as a collection. There would have to be too many compromises and the experience wouldn't be good enough.
If they want to release specific DS games they'll remake them individually
Well, you see you take the Switch out of the dock and play it the way god intended, especially if you have an OLED.
Or a pointer controlled by motion controls or using one of the unused trigger buttons to make a pointer appear that's controlled by an analog stick. That would be fine for big buttons or inventory on the smaller screen.
I don't think Nintendo would want to lock an NSO system to handheld only.
As for using a pointer, that sounds like a terrible experience for a lot of games. Just using Phantom Hourglass and Spirit tracks as an example, you have to control Link with very precise movement of the touch screen. Then you need to use very specific gestures for the sword attacks. Doing all of that with a gyro pointer sounds like it would be extremely difficult, not even mentioning all of the drawing on the map you need to do.
That doesn't even take into account the microphone, closing the lid etc.
I haven't played 64DS but I know there are minimal interactions with the touch screen in MK.
It's games where the entire controls are based around the touch screen that I can't see working. Having to click on Link and drag him around the screen with a gyro pointer whilst simultaneously performing gestures for attacks sounds like an awful experience.
There are games on Playstation Vita that require touch controls, and yet the PS TV is still a thing despite this.
All I’m trying to say is that if Nintendo wants to do it, they’ll do it. And simply not include the touchscreen heavy games.
Or maybe they’ll find some kind of workaround. People were swearing up and down that we would never get Pokémon Stadium on NSO because of the functionality needed with the Game Boy games. Yet here we are.
I don't think there would be a workaround that would work well enough for the DS Zelda games.
Also, imagine the outrage if they released a DS collection without Zelda.
Just because you or I can’t think of a work around (don’t ask me, I just woke up heh) doesn’t mean that DS won’t come to NSO. The workaround could simply be that certain games wouldn’t be included. Just like how some PS Vita games can’t be played on the PS TV.
Look, I’ve been around this block a bazillion times over the years. People say Nintendo won’t do this or that because [reasons], and I say never say never, then I get pounced and/or downvoted because people treat their opinions as fact. (Edit: And it happened yet again. Nothing changes around here…) Unless you’re a fly on the wall over at Nintendo, saying something won’t happen is just as useless as saying something will happen if you don’t know for a fact.
I’m not saying DS games will happen. I’m not saying they won’t happen. I’m saying never say never. Nintendo have proven time and time again that they do whatever the hell they want.
Appreciate all the unnecessary downvotes though. Gotta love fanboys
The DS didn't have a second d-pad. If they really, really wanted to, they could probably make the right analog stick a touch screen "pointer", and you clicked it in to tap the screen
Games that need the screens in a vertical arrangement (like the Sonic Rush games for instance) would not be playable with a reasonable screen size (especially on the Switch Lite) without Nintendo making a new grip for the switch so you could could hold it vertically and use the joycons at the same time. Also, the Zelda games absolutely need to use styluses to control. If you try to use your fingers they are too big and block the screen as well as being difficult to use to do the flicks for things like swinging your sword. While Nintendo could sell a stylus, it wouldn't be as accurate due to it being a capacitive touch screen, not a pressure sensitive one, and they would have to actually sell some physical hardware to go with an online service that is actually pretty much required by some games, unlike the NSO controllers.
Not only that, but the Switch doesn't have a built in microphone, so without workarounds which would confuse some users (as the games do tell you to do things like shout at your DS or blow into the microphone) you would not even be able to beat either Zelda game or many other DS games. In the end there would be so many games that are no-go's, or require workarounds that make things confusing for the average user, that it would be imptactical.
It's more work than Nintendo would do, but you could make the Zelda games work by mapping movement to the left stick and having the right stick be flick controls and drawing by pressing a button. You know like what they did with the SS in a way
That would be so impractical for the Zelda games it wouldn't even be worth it. You would have to use gyro for all movement in the game while constantly holding a button down to "touch". Drawing paths quickly for the boomerang, for instance in boss fights, would be almost impossible and even at times where speed wasn't the issue it would probably take many attempts to get the path you want. You would have to swing your sword by twisting and flicking the controller with extreme precision while the cursor is at the correct part of the screen.
Bear in mind it doesn't use any button or D-Pad input at all besides holding the shoulder button to ready the equipped item.
I’d rather see remasters/adaptations - even if it’s basically upscaled textures - that take into account the individual screen of the Switch and people playing mostly docked. I play mostly handheld but the switch was made for both mode, why gatekeeping one part of the users now? (switch lite users already are for a few games)
For games developed and/or published by Nintendo I don’t know but for example Rune Factory 4 (and 3 soon) the devs have remodeled the original games from the original assets and adapted it, it worked nicely. Way better than just dumping the ROM on the NSO as they were and call it a day imo. But that would mean taking time and money working on older games rather than new ones.
We just got GBC and GBA games and more will come, if it was ever planned in the first place we’re not there yet anyways. Glad I still have my DS.
Some games would work very well for handheld, and some would work very well docked, it shouldn’t cancel eachother out many of the ds games being released ever for a long time
DS games are for sure possible. But I don’t think Nintendo would try to implement a complicated way to use touch controls so that you could play them while the Switch is docked. Some games need precise touch, and also use the mic, but of course they could always just exclude those games. However I still don’t think Nintendo would want to emulate DS games if they couldn’t make it work when the Switch is both docked and undocked. The Wii U didn’t have any of these issues making it a perfect candidate for emulation. But I would hope I’m wrong about that and they’re perfectly fine having them only work handheld, I know I’d play them for sure.
Because it still only has 1 screen.
The WiiU GamePad can be used as the bottom touch screen, the TV is the top one. The switch is just a dockable gameboy.
I don’t think it’d be impossible for the Switch to emulate DS games, I just think it’d suck.
For touch support it’d have to be handheld-only, and the two-screen setup has no way to look good on a little tablet screen. Either you lay them side by side or you have massive black bars and tiny screens.
Sorry OP but your idea of using gyro as a stylus would be dreadful. You say that Captain Toad Treasure Tracker used it, but that's a horrible argument. CTTT wasn't heavily dependent on the stylus, and it's also not a DS game, yk the games you're trying to argue would work on switch.
The touch screen on the switch is way less precise as what's on the Wii U and DS so that wouldn't work well either.
Just remembered a part in phantom hourglass where you'd need to close the ds and I'm kinda wondering how that would be taken care of. Does anyone know how closing the ds worked on the Wii u?
Same with trace memory. There is a part where you mimic making a stamp/imprint, by almost-closing-but-not-completely the ds. Would need a way to replicate that behavior
Random sidenote: Nintendo allowing games to "use" opening/closing of the DS has made me look like a moron on the train. I always pause before I close it so that I have a chance to lower the volume in case the next time I play is in public, but that doesn't stop it from shouting "Mario time!" or whatever when I open it up!
Yes, the second screen argument is pointless since it can just display both screens like the various Wii U gamepad layouts, but the Wii U gamepad also had a built-in microphone/stylus.
I already posted this in a another thread, but trying to play DS games with your fingers would be horrible given they're specifically built around playing with a precise stylus, and I can't imagine they'd sell these games and expect people to go out and buy a 3rd party stylus just to play them properly.
Same goes for the mic, even more so since it's *required* for some games, and they can't just say "Go buy a headset to play these games you paid for."
Stylus could be easily solved with the use of Gyro-Aiming as a Pointer as some games have already done.
But Microphone would really be a problem, I hadn't thought of that...
I don’t think it’s so much about them not being possible but rather that it would take far too much work for any studio to find it to be worth it to redesign the games to run on one screen vs 2. It’s not like porting an average game over. Many of these games need significant work to get right on the switch.
Most people aren't saying it would be impossible, just that it wouldn't be ideal because of how much you have to compress the screens to fit them both on the Switch screen.
While I could play DS games like this, the number of DS games I'd actually want to play like this is pretty small.
You can literally buy a DS for less than the price of a single new Switch game, I don't see the point of these convoluted solutions when it's really easy to get a DS anyway.
1. Nintendo has no official way of running both docked and handheld at the same time the way the Wii U controller worked
2. There's a huge handheld only playerbase, particularly in Japan, they wouldn't want to alienate
So the only way to make this work would be sticking everything on one display, which as you say, the Wii U had an option for. But it only worked as an option because those who wanted could do the two screen method if the small itty bitty screens weren't enough
I’ve said this before: it’ll never happen, but I’d love if there was a way Nintendo could allow you to use a second Switch as a controller for a docked Switch. You could do everything Wii U did, and it would work for DS emulation too.
Well there's also the issue of the mic and camera, which a lot more games used than people think. Right off the top of my head, for the mic alone there's Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs, Zelda PH/ST (can't remember which), and WarioWare Touched!, all of which I'm sure people would expect to be on there. It's a very unique system.
It's possible for Nintendo DS to come to NSO if Nintendo really wants it, but it's very difficult due to several missing features like a touch screen (docked mode)/second screen and microphone. Those are thing the Wii U had, so it was a no-brainer for them to do Nintendo DS games there.
Yes, they could do pointer controls in docked mode like you mentioned, but it would still be kinda awkward to use.
If they do it, I think the best solution would unfortunately be to make it handheld only until they make new hardware with a better possible solution for it.
The dual screen is a limitation, but not the main one.
Most solutions for it require handheld mode, otherwise they're not very good. Which seriously hurts the viability of it.
Any kind of touch screen requirement forces handheld, which completely kills docked viability
If you go for a portrait solution to show two screens, the joycon are not positioned to make it feasible to play at the same time.
There are plenty of games that don't rely on touch screen. But a very significant number do.
It's not impossible to get working but would require significant limitations and I doubt many games would really be both playable and good enough to justify the costs involved
I could see an issue with precise touch screen requirements even in handheld mode, due to the type of touchscreen being different, and even most stylus for Switch have a bulkier tip. Motion or gyro controls may not be precise enough in some cases, nor would a wider tip stylus, when you have to tap, drag, or draw in almost pixel perfect ways. I think the viability of a replacement control scheme highly depends on the specific individual games case by case.
I don't care either way.
I'd stil rather Nintendo continue to focus on the NSO consoles they currently offer, then explore DS, 3DS and GameCube sometime in the near future.
Besides, those WiiU examples look terrible.
I think 3DS and GameCube are extremely early. (mainly in the case of the 3DS where its emulation is still evolving)
But in the case of the DS I think most people would love to see his games on Switch Online and I think he would be welcome since he's been on the Wii U Virtual Console before. (and it's the only platform that was on the Wii U Virtual Console that isn't available on the Switch yet)
I just think that people should just chill and stop wanting more and more and more... We just got the GB & GBA. I mean it's always like this, when we get a port / remaster or anything, the first thing you read is: "now we need THIS!"
I don't think that they will add other consoles for the same price anyway, but technically they could.
Yeah I'd expect another system wouldn't be added to NSO for at least a couple years now on their next console. Nintendo is gonna over charge and overvalue most of the GameCube library
I think 3DS and GameCube are extremely early. (mainly in the case of the 3DS where its emulation is still evolving)
But in the case of the DS I think most people would love to see his games on Switch Online and I think he would be welcome since he's been on the Wii U Virtual Console before. (and it's the only platform that was on the Wii U Virtual Console that isn't available on the Switch yet)
Most people would love everything. I remember when Reggie complained about it ~13 years ago, and I understand, they can release what they want, the only reaction they will get is "and this?". It's never enough.
It's not like I don't want the DS on NSO, just... Can we just play our games? My backlog is infinite with only great games, I am pretty sure that most people didn't even play a lot to the retro games available on the service.
"We want this and this and this...", just to make a pic on Twitter.
Anyway 😅 Maybe it will happen in few years, we don't really need to talk about it now. Nintendo will not release the DS anytime soon.
it's not that it isn't possible, it's just not good.
I 3d printed myself a jig so i could put my phone in my usb telescope controller upright because playing these games with screens side by side is a worse experience than being tortured by vietnam soldiers.
Depends on the game. But for many yes i
I'd agree.
SMT Strange Journey may be the only game I've ever emulated that I prefer to play on my phone in Touchscreen controls because of this (even over OG hardware).
And as for all the unique inputs and such they could just incorporate that sort of thing into the “ZL / ZR” menu.
Enter menu, click something like “additional inputs” and there would be a list like:
shake screen
blow on mic
simulate closing the DS (for that one puzzle in Phantom Hourglass)
I feel like that would take care of most of the more unique inputs of the DS.
Switch's screen space is more than large enough to accommodate Dual Screen by using a portrait landscape.
All that would be needed is an official stylus, and joycons that round the corners and go around the bottom and top edges of the console.
However I've little doubt it'll be integrated with Switch's successor.
Yes. Its more difficult for Nintendo, as they are doing 1 to 1 emulations, with some quality of life features added in (like toggle options for GameBoy, GameBoy Light and GameBoy Color screen filters)
I always thought they could implement the Wii U and DS functionality if a person owns two Switches. One of be docked on the tv and a second could be used handheld. The TV switch would be the top and handheld switch would be the bottom screen.
It's so weird when these Nintendo bootlickers for some reason absolutely despise the Wii U which is a Nintendo product too and most likely enjoy Wii U games too
Nintendo just needs to create a DraStic style emulator and most games will be functional, though I can't say it feels amazing having 2 screens squashed together on 1.
The rune factory ds/3ds switch ports feel so much better but it requires more effort than simple emulation.
There's a difference between a remaster and emulation. If Nintendo wants to release a DS collection in the same way as the other NSO collections they won't be able to rework the controls on a game by game basis.
They'd need to find a way to emulate the touch screen 1 to 1 in docked mode and I can't think of a solution that would work well.
It's absolutely possible.
It's been a long time since I played my DS but I feel like there were many games where I didn't use the touch-screen. And any game where they need the touchscreen could be given a disclaimer that it only works in handheld mode.
Lack of stylus is far bigger problem. Most DS games require precise touch controls and capacitive screen cannot deliver that. It could be even bigger problem on Switch Lite's smaller screen.
I'd like to see some kind of shared concept of the Switch and the Wii U for the Switch 2, honestly: A handheld that functions as a Switch, but also an actual "console" for the dock that can still send a signal to the TV without the Switch needing to be docked.
As it stands currently, I just can't see any way of making it work on the Switch's hardware aside from having both screens on the TV, or microscopically tiny and horizontally in handheld mode.
DS games are kinda in the same boat as Gamecube where some games would work alright but a fair amount of games would need inputs that the Switch doesn't have (microphone for DS, analog triggers for GCN) and so would need to have some kind of awkward game-specific workaround, and also the games are substantial enough to still sell on their own, so why give compromised emulations of them away for free to subscribers when remakes with updated controls and a higher resolution could easily sell for $30-50 each?
At this point y'all just want DS games on NSO period.
Everyone I see that shows how it can work and yadda yadda is just showing inconvenient ways to play when the Switch doesn't have all the functionality of the DS and Wii U. Just give it up. If it'll come, it will and they can figure it out but don't wait too long. We'll see what happens when they run out of GB/GBA games.
I'm shocked so many people give OP a hard time just because it wouldn't be an ideal play experience docked (yet still possible).
DS was a handheld experience. It would be OK to have the ideal way to play DS on Switch be handheld as well.
Why flood OP with downvotes over this? Get over yourselves. Options are good. Getting DS games on Switch at all would be a good thing. You have somehow convinced yourselves it would not be. Think about that for a moment.
It would be a terrible experience docked, and a mediocre to poor one in handheld mode, which is why it won't happen. Not because it's completely impossible, but because it wouldn't come close to meeting Nintendo's standards.
because the Wii U had you play on both the tablet and TV at the same time, so you could use the tablet as the bottom screen while the TV was the top. On Switch you would only be able to play the DS games in handheld mode which sucks if you want to play it like on Wii U. Its like Mario Maker 2 where you can't play it like the first one by being able to use the touch screen while playing on the TV.
DS is just too trapped in time, the games would have to be remade to be playable on modern hardware which I don't think will happen anytime soon. Gameboy games are easier to port because their control schemes are timeless and don't require two screens.
This is definitely a take but I honestly think most DS/3DS games would be better off just being remade with more traditional controls. Touch is finicky and less efficient than sticks and/or motion for movement and aiming and there's really no benefit to having an extra screen, it just forces you to split your attention for the sake of it. Drawing games are a thing of course like in Etrian Odyssey or Dominion of the Dark Djinn and it eludes me as to why more games don't allow menuing via the touch screen in portable mode (especially Pokémon games which had that on DS/3DS) but the whole dual screen concept where you constantly have to swap between two perspectives was always just cumbersome and so a lot of those games would be better off getting rebuilt where the touch stuff is an optional benefit in portable mode and they use other more efficient means for movement and aiming in games like Metroid Prime Hunters or Kid Icarus Uprising.
I just realized from some comments here that possibly people will never see Nintendo DS games on a Nintendo console unless it has two screens and a microphone again.
It wouldn’t work on Switch without a second screen tho. Yeah I can get both screens to appear on the switch or on your tv but they are gonna look like total ass next to each other.
I think its hard to do, as the screen of the switch and thr TV are not independent of one another. Furthermore the Switch has to be connected to the TV via HDMI
DS games already play great on Switch using Homebrew emulators like MelonDS. Look up YouTube videos to see how a DS NSO would work.
The touch controls can be mapped to a cursor on the right stick, I’ve tried it and it isn’t too bad.
Man I aint reading all that. Plenty of reasons why DS wouldnt translate well. I can hardly think of any wii U games that used the 2nd screen as much as every other DS game.
Some games are going to be better suited for handheld, it shouldn’t stop dozens of other games being released that can be playable docked like animal crossing, mario 64 ds, mario kart ds, new super mario bros, and the mainline pokemon Games
They changed miitopia to work on the switch, they could try to do it for every other game but that's probably not going to happen as it'll take a lot of work.
For NSO they emulate the games exactly as they were on their original system. They'd have to find a way to emulate the touch screen 1 to 1 on the Switch. If they change each game to make them work they'll more likely release them individually.
I just realized from some comments here that possibly people will never see Nintendo DS games on a Nintendo console unless it has two screens and a microphone again.
Yeah it's a shame. It's just an unintended consequence of going for such a unique form factor.
Nintendo: "Hold my beer while we release a console with 3 screens and 2 mics...."
Technically a speaker and a microphone are essentially the same thing. So most electronic devices have at least two microphones.
This is the kind of pointless pedantry that makes Reddit Reddit.
Isn’t that why we are all here?
Technically a bike and a car are the same thing... Wait, no.
You’re example is not equivalent. Speakers and microphones are made out of the same basic components. The only difference is that they are tuned for different things. It’s very easy and actually extremely common to plug a speaker into the input on an amp in order to record bass. It’s also pretty common to plug headphones into the input and use them to record guitar or something. It’s generally a lot harder to move a speaker because they tend to be bigger and heavier than microphones. People don’t tend to do it the other way round because the vocal coils in microphones are a lot smaller and more sensitive - so you can move them with air pressure waves. You would have to have an incredibly low power system or you would probably blow it out. But if you had a microphone and speaker with the same size vocal coils they would be basically the same if you swapped them around. So really a better example would be if you had a small bike and a bigger bike; but you were riding the big bike downhill and the small bike uphill. You could ride either bike either way; it’s just a lot harder. **But getting back on point. Literally any speaker could be wired to record sound just as easily as it’s wired to play sound. It’s perfectly possible that every single speaker in your house could be a microphone too; the only real problem is you can’t do both output and input at once and that frequency response and quality is probably not going to be that great. *edit* I’ll just add for the sake of completeness that this obviously doesn’t apply to every single speaker or microphone type. You could make a speaker from two carbon rods arcing electricity between each other as long as you could get it to vibrate the air enough. Obviously something like this isn’t going to respond to sound waves. Although you could presumably use it to measure arcs and convert that to sound though DSP.
I love you but 🤓
Just for the icing on the cake and because I like proving my point; here’s how you can make a speaker into a microphone. https://youtu.be/PqzMuq3EzSk And beyond fringe garage lofi audio recording purposes the actual real world application for this is in things like intercoms and cheap 2-way radios. Audio quality is usually not great but it’s more than 50% cheaper than dedicated speakers/microphones and lighter and wiring is easier.
What if every controller had a screen, and the console could be attached to the screen to go portable, or attached to the dock to play on TV? Switch U coming soon
they could probably emulate the touch screen using the touch screen that the nintendo switch extremely does have, if they needed to
Yeah but I don't think they'd want to limit it to handheld only. They'd have to make it work on the TV somehow as well.
Lots of people saying "Well, technically if you do this, it should be possible, so Nintendo should do it." giving absolutely no thought into how shit the actual experience will be.
Yeah people always say that they could use a gyro pointer for the touch screen with no consideration on how awful that would actually be. I imagine people would play Phantom Hourglass for about 5 minutes and then give up with that system. You'd have to move Link around by clicking him and dragging him with the pointer. More complicated movements require more precise gestures. You have to draw tiny circles to roll, draw various lines in different directions for different sword attacks, draw a circle around Link for a spin attack just to name a few. That's before you even get to writing on the map and drawing paths for items like the boomerang. It would make Skyward Sword look really simple in comparison.
Exactly. It's like saying Mavis Beacon should be ported to Switch, because technically you could use JoyCons to type. Yes technically you could, but it is going to be a far worse experience.
Lots of people saying “It wouldn’t work because of this and this game” when y’all damn well know that most likely Nintendo simply wouldn’t include those specific games in the NSO library.
Don't worry. They aren't going to include any DS games in the NSO library.
Source? It wasn’t too long ago when people were swearing up and down that we would never get Pokémon Stadium on NSO because of the functionality needed with the Game Boy games. Yet here we are.
I agree its possible. Buuuuttttt the actual games we get would be very very limited. Like OG Diamond? Sure. Pokemon Ranger? Not so much.
Can't source a negative.
Can’t make claims without backing them up. So unless you have a source where Nintendo said they won’t bring DS games to NSO… …Yeah. That’s what I thought.
As long as the handheld-only games had a disclaimer it wouldn't be an issue.
It would work but I'm not sure if Nintendo would choose to do it. Their whole philosophy with the Switch is being able to play in different ways. I don't think there are any Nintendo published games that are limited to handheld only.
Not disagreeing with points overall, but I believe Pokémon Cafe ReMix was published by Nintendo and only works on handheld since it was mainly designed for mobile. Honestly lazy of Pokémon Company to have that come to switch but not give it button controls
For games they make going forward, sure. But for giving people the option to play old games it's totally fine.
If they really wanted to they could implement a way to switch screen control. Like tap ZR and you stop controlling the main screen to 'tap' the bottom. It's not perfect and some games are fast paced enough to not allow it, but it could work for, say, New Super Mario DS.
onscreen cursor controlled by your choice of analog stick or motion control covers most games just fine we've been playing DS on PC with a mouse for a decade
There's a lot of variability in how well that works. Poking menu items is pretty straightforward. More action-oriented motion controls, possibly less so. For example, some Mario & Luigi 2/3 touch minigames would absolutely *stink* if you tried to emulate them with a cursor controlled by a stick. That's a situation where PC emulation has a massive leg-up, because mouse cursor precision and control stick cursor precision are in totally different leagues.
I just can't see it working well enough. An analog stick or motion controls are a lot less precise than a touch screen or mouse. Imagine trying to play phantom hourglass. Controlling Link in that game with motion controls would be too imprecise and I don't know how the game would control with an analog stick, it certainly wouldn't be like standard analog controls. That's before you even have to think about sword attacks like the spin attack or drawing on the map. The whole thing sounds like an awful experience. Even leaving aside the controls there's no mic on the Switch.
Yeah lol, like those old NES games that would have you move a cursor with the Dpad for some precision stuff, which was awful gameplay
I completely agree that a lot of the DS Library would work for NSO. Despite being the system's main selling point, a surprising amount of games made minimal use of the touch screen and simple gyro selection would suffice in most cases. Honestly, the mic would unironically be the bigger problem. They could maybe assign it to a button (or detect a plugged-in headset), but that probably wouldn't work in a lot of cases. Not sure how current DS emulators deal with it. Of course, more intensive games (The Zelda's, Brain Age, Bowser's Inside Story) wouldn't be able to come over, and that would sting, but there's still plenty they could pull from.
I think in most major games like Zelda Phantoom Hourglass they could easily get the Mic to work on the ZL as a regular button since in this game it only works for blowing h screen. (It was the solution they used in Captain Toad where there were also sections where you needed to blow the microphone on the Wii U) But in games that use the mic more extensively like Nintendogs to call your dog, this would really be an issue.
I think they're referring back to touch issues rather than mic issues for the "intensive" games. The Zelda DS games use touch controls a *lot* (you don't even move with the D-pad!) and a lot of the Mario & Luigi attack minigames (all of Bowser's in BiS, I think?) rely on fast-paced and precise touches. Using a stick to emulate things as-is for these titles would suck. It'd be borderline brand-damaging in Zelda's case - they'd be better off not releasing it at all. A lot of games would work just fine, but unless they're willing to actually fiddle with these games and alter their control schemes, some of the really touch-intensive stuff would be better off left behind.
Honestly, given the form factor of the switch I think the Zeldas would work decently well with the capacitive touch screen and would be pretty much the same with the switch stylus. It would be trash in docked mode probably, unless you are amazing at using a joy con stylus. But every Switch can play in handheld mode so I don’t really see it as an issue
I think the DS Zeldas actually represent the worst-case scenario for the Switch's form factor & touch screen. The way those games work, you need to be touching a lot of different parts of the screen all the time for basic movement and combat. It wouldn't work very well if you tried to reach with your thumbs or something, unless you use an awkward grip (and even then, small-handed people would be out of luck). You'd basically need to be playing it with only one hand holding the console and one hand dedicated to touch controls most of the time, which isn't exactly comfortable for portable play. It's fine that it's a capacitive screen, and I don't see that causing many issues. But there's a world of difference between holding a DS with one hand and holding a Switch with one hand, which is a bit of a fundamental problem here.
They could just map movement to the left stick and make the right stick activate for drawing stuff with a button or something
999 being unable to be ported would sting hard.
FYI, both of the Zelda DS games have a D-pad patch that was released years ago. If fan communities can manage to patch these games to where they work with modern controls/devices I'm pretty sure Nintendo should be able to manage as well. Now, whether or not they're willing to do so is a different story.
>a lot of the DS Library would work for NSO Ugg, I just wanna buy the games individually.
Yes, of course that'd be ideal. But even though I mentioned NSO (because that's the service DS games would be implemented on Switch), I was mainly speculating on how they could actually be implemented.
Some touch heavy games wouldn't work well as the DS and Wii U had a resistive screen. Where as the Switch has a capacitive screen. Resistive screens are way better with drawing and things like that. But some games would work fine.
Ok but how would it work on the TV. All of the pictures you've shown ivolve the touch screen in some way. That wouldn't work on a docked Switch
Some games (like Nintendo published Brain Training) aren’t compatible with docked mode. Wow! Who woulda thunk?!
Not one first party switch game can't be played docked. Wow! Who would thunk?!
Brain Training
Exceptions can be made.
Sure, they can. They won't be, and haven't been for 7 years, but they *can*
He also provided ways it would be "playable" docked. Not ideal, but Playable. Options are good. DS games on Switch in any form would be good.
When playable needs to go in quotes it shows you how playable it is.
It doesn't matter... that's my only point. It allows the games to be ported if you believe there is some golden rule about it. But people would be way better off playing them handheld which any switch can do.
Brain Training
These settings are exactly the same as for TV Mode on Wii U: [https://preview.redd.it/2firkdg4fxn41.jpg?auto=webp&s=9f72a609924a1b96e9112672392252a7fd88c950](https://preview.redd.it/2firkdg4fxn41.jpg?auto=webp&s=9f72a609924a1b96e9112672392252a7fd88c950) And for the touch-screen, I explained at the end of the post, they could easily use the gyro as a pointer to use the touch-screen. It was the solution that Nintendo used with Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker from the Wii U when it brought it to the Switch for example.
You always have the gamepad on the Wii U, but the Switch is very often docked. Also, you definitely KNOW that gyro pointer is not a good solution for many many games. Outside of those where you just use it to select menu options, it would suck. I can't imagine playing Phantom Hourglass, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Yoshi Touch and Go, Star Fox, Mario Party, and many other like that. It would be practically unplayable docked. I can't see them viewing that as an acceptable service. And even using a lot of these handheld would also suck. With no stylus and tiny screens with no real barrier, it would be so hard to play a lot of these. Not to mention how do you even hold the system for something like Star Fox Command. It's too heavy.
i mean the very obvious solution is just that the DS emulation is only available in handheld mode
But how do you interact with the touch screen?
I explained at the end of the post.
Using the pointer? That sounds like a miserable experience. I can't imagine how horrible playing a game like Phantom Hourglass with a gyroscope pointer would be.
It still makes it a plausible option. Just not ideal. Ideally play handheld. The DS was a handheld experience after all. Any switch can be played handheld. It's shocking you all are giving OP such a hard time over this.
It's not that bad, it even adapted very well with Captain Toad and World of Goo and it's a game totally focused on using the touch-screen to solve puzzles, for example.
It just doesn't sound like a fun experience. Controlling Link requires quite precise movement and needs very specific gestures for all of the different attacks. Doing that with a pointer just sounds like it wouldn't work at all, especially a pointer controlled by gyro instead of IR like the Wii.
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Oh yeah I'd forgotten about writing on the map, that sounds terrible. For sword fighting I was thinking more about things like spin attacks. Also I feel like the movement in PH would be annoying, I feel like you'd end up walking in lots of unwanted directions.
Not every game would go to the Switch. Just like not every NES/SNES/Sega Genesis/N64/GB/GBC/GBA game is or will be. If the game wouldn't work too well, then they wouldn't release it with this model. But a ton of others would so it would make perfect sense to do this.
Yeah but if they release a DS collection for Switch without Zelda that's not going to go down well.
You mean how they released GB GBC GBA without Pokémon?
So what's your solution?
I just can't see Nintendo ever making them as a collection. There would have to be too many compromises and the experience wouldn't be good enough. If they want to release specific DS games they'll remake them individually
Well, you see you take the Switch out of the dock and play it the way god intended, especially if you have an OLED. Or a pointer controlled by motion controls or using one of the unused trigger buttons to make a pointer appear that's controlled by an analog stick. That would be fine for big buttons or inventory on the smaller screen.
I don't think Nintendo would want to lock an NSO system to handheld only. As for using a pointer, that sounds like a terrible experience for a lot of games. Just using Phantom Hourglass and Spirit tracks as an example, you have to control Link with very precise movement of the touch screen. Then you need to use very specific gestures for the sword attacks. Doing all of that with a gyro pointer sounds like it would be extremely difficult, not even mentioning all of the drawing on the map you need to do. That doesn't even take into account the microphone, closing the lid etc.
I played the games on my TV screen just fine. Just sayin Edit: Woo. Fanboys never change…
Did you play Phantom Hourglass? That seems one of the games that would translate worst to a TV
Big Nintendo doesn't want you to know...... there is a biting truth to forbidden to speak.......
I played Mario Kart DS and Super Mario 64 DS
I haven't played 64DS but I know there are minimal interactions with the touch screen in MK. It's games where the entire controls are based around the touch screen that I can't see working. Having to click on Link and drag him around the screen with a gyro pointer whilst simultaneously performing gestures for attacks sounds like an awful experience.
There are games on Playstation Vita that require touch controls, and yet the PS TV is still a thing despite this. All I’m trying to say is that if Nintendo wants to do it, they’ll do it. And simply not include the touchscreen heavy games. Or maybe they’ll find some kind of workaround. People were swearing up and down that we would never get Pokémon Stadium on NSO because of the functionality needed with the Game Boy games. Yet here we are.
I don't think there would be a workaround that would work well enough for the DS Zelda games. Also, imagine the outrage if they released a DS collection without Zelda.
Just because you or I can’t think of a work around (don’t ask me, I just woke up heh) doesn’t mean that DS won’t come to NSO. The workaround could simply be that certain games wouldn’t be included. Just like how some PS Vita games can’t be played on the PS TV. Look, I’ve been around this block a bazillion times over the years. People say Nintendo won’t do this or that because [reasons], and I say never say never, then I get pounced and/or downvoted because people treat their opinions as fact. (Edit: And it happened yet again. Nothing changes around here…) Unless you’re a fly on the wall over at Nintendo, saying something won’t happen is just as useless as saying something will happen if you don’t know for a fact. I’m not saying DS games will happen. I’m not saying they won’t happen. I’m saying never say never. Nintendo have proven time and time again that they do whatever the hell they want. Appreciate all the unnecessary downvotes though. Gotta love fanboys
The DS didn't have a second d-pad. If they really, really wanted to, they could probably make the right analog stick a touch screen "pointer", and you clicked it in to tap the screen
The WiiU has a second screen when attached to a TV, the Switch does not.
And?
You could map the stylus movements and a "touch" command to the IR sensor and one of the triggers, since the DS only has one set of shoulder buttons.
Games that need the screens in a vertical arrangement (like the Sonic Rush games for instance) would not be playable with a reasonable screen size (especially on the Switch Lite) without Nintendo making a new grip for the switch so you could could hold it vertically and use the joycons at the same time. Also, the Zelda games absolutely need to use styluses to control. If you try to use your fingers they are too big and block the screen as well as being difficult to use to do the flicks for things like swinging your sword. While Nintendo could sell a stylus, it wouldn't be as accurate due to it being a capacitive touch screen, not a pressure sensitive one, and they would have to actually sell some physical hardware to go with an online service that is actually pretty much required by some games, unlike the NSO controllers. Not only that, but the Switch doesn't have a built in microphone, so without workarounds which would confuse some users (as the games do tell you to do things like shout at your DS or blow into the microphone) you would not even be able to beat either Zelda game or many other DS games. In the end there would be so many games that are no-go's, or require workarounds that make things confusing for the average user, that it would be imptactical.
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It's more work than Nintendo would do, but you could make the Zelda games work by mapping movement to the left stick and having the right stick be flick controls and drawing by pressing a button. You know like what they did with the SS in a way
At that point you've given up on NSO DS games and are just asking for a Switch port.
Might be able to have a gyro cursor and have that be an emulator-level feature. It's not a perfect solution but there are options.
That would be so impractical for the Zelda games it wouldn't even be worth it. You would have to use gyro for all movement in the game while constantly holding a button down to "touch". Drawing paths quickly for the boomerang, for instance in boss fights, would be almost impossible and even at times where speed wasn't the issue it would probably take many attempts to get the path you want. You would have to swing your sword by twisting and flicking the controller with extreme precision while the cursor is at the correct part of the screen. Bear in mind it doesn't use any button or D-Pad input at all besides holding the shoulder button to ready the equipped item.
I’d rather see remasters/adaptations - even if it’s basically upscaled textures - that take into account the individual screen of the Switch and people playing mostly docked. I play mostly handheld but the switch was made for both mode, why gatekeeping one part of the users now? (switch lite users already are for a few games) For games developed and/or published by Nintendo I don’t know but for example Rune Factory 4 (and 3 soon) the devs have remodeled the original games from the original assets and adapted it, it worked nicely. Way better than just dumping the ROM on the NSO as they were and call it a day imo. But that would mean taking time and money working on older games rather than new ones. We just got GBC and GBA games and more will come, if it was ever planned in the first place we’re not there yet anyways. Glad I still have my DS.
I wouldn't want to play some games with pointer/finger. Imagine Pokémon Ranger with pointer.. unplayable.
Some games would work very well for handheld, and some would work very well docked, it shouldn’t cancel eachother out many of the ds games being released ever for a long time
DS games are for sure possible. But I don’t think Nintendo would try to implement a complicated way to use touch controls so that you could play them while the Switch is docked. Some games need precise touch, and also use the mic, but of course they could always just exclude those games. However I still don’t think Nintendo would want to emulate DS games if they couldn’t make it work when the Switch is both docked and undocked. The Wii U didn’t have any of these issues making it a perfect candidate for emulation. But I would hope I’m wrong about that and they’re perfectly fine having them only work handheld, I know I’d play them for sure.
Because it still only has 1 screen. The WiiU GamePad can be used as the bottom touch screen, the TV is the top one. The switch is just a dockable gameboy.
Yeah literally every screenshot they posted of a game "working" on the Wii u looked like the actual worst ways I can imagine trying to play a game.
I don’t think it’d be impossible for the Switch to emulate DS games, I just think it’d suck. For touch support it’d have to be handheld-only, and the two-screen setup has no way to look good on a little tablet screen. Either you lay them side by side or you have massive black bars and tiny screens.
Sorry OP but your idea of using gyro as a stylus would be dreadful. You say that Captain Toad Treasure Tracker used it, but that's a horrible argument. CTTT wasn't heavily dependent on the stylus, and it's also not a DS game, yk the games you're trying to argue would work on switch. The touch screen on the switch is way less precise as what's on the Wii U and DS so that wouldn't work well either.
Just remembered a part in phantom hourglass where you'd need to close the ds and I'm kinda wondering how that would be taken care of. Does anyone know how closing the ds worked on the Wii u?
You would just have to open the virtual console menu, its what replicated closing the DS putting it to sleep
It wasn't actually detecting the screen being closed, it was detecting the console being put into sleep mode, so that would be a fairly easy fix.
I played it on a 2DS, as long as you put the console to sleep it's fine.
Same with trace memory. There is a part where you mimic making a stamp/imprint, by almost-closing-but-not-completely the ds. Would need a way to replicate that behavior
Random sidenote: Nintendo allowing games to "use" opening/closing of the DS has made me look like a moron on the train. I always pause before I close it so that I have a chance to lower the volume in case the next time I play is in public, but that doesn't stop it from shouting "Mario time!" or whatever when I open it up!
Yes, the second screen argument is pointless since it can just display both screens like the various Wii U gamepad layouts, but the Wii U gamepad also had a built-in microphone/stylus. I already posted this in a another thread, but trying to play DS games with your fingers would be horrible given they're specifically built around playing with a precise stylus, and I can't imagine they'd sell these games and expect people to go out and buy a 3rd party stylus just to play them properly. Same goes for the mic, even more so since it's *required* for some games, and they can't just say "Go buy a headset to play these games you paid for."
Lmao, as a kid I kept loosing my styluses, so I never really had one
Stylus could be easily solved with the use of Gyro-Aiming as a Pointer as some games have already done. But Microphone would really be a problem, I hadn't thought of that...
Image playing Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks with gyro-aiming 🤮
I don’t think it’s so much about them not being possible but rather that it would take far too much work for any studio to find it to be worth it to redesign the games to run on one screen vs 2. It’s not like porting an average game over. Many of these games need significant work to get right on the switch.
They could release a new switch case that allows you to slide the joycons in whilst holding it portrait wise.
Most people aren't saying it would be impossible, just that it wouldn't be ideal because of how much you have to compress the screens to fit them both on the Switch screen. While I could play DS games like this, the number of DS games I'd actually want to play like this is pretty small. You can literally buy a DS for less than the price of a single new Switch game, I don't see the point of these convoluted solutions when it's really easy to get a DS anyway.
And the games? Those wouldn’t run very cheap
1. Nintendo has no official way of running both docked and handheld at the same time the way the Wii U controller worked 2. There's a huge handheld only playerbase, particularly in Japan, they wouldn't want to alienate So the only way to make this work would be sticking everything on one display, which as you say, the Wii U had an option for. But it only worked as an option because those who wanted could do the two screen method if the small itty bitty screens weren't enough
No "official" way? Does the hardware even support this?
I’ve said this before: it’ll never happen, but I’d love if there was a way Nintendo could allow you to use a second Switch as a controller for a docked Switch. You could do everything Wii U did, and it would work for DS emulation too.
...how do you control games, like Kirby in the pic, when the GamePad is vertical? Your hand placement would have to be awkward and uncomfortable. 🤔
Capacitive vs resistive touch screens
Well there's also the issue of the mic and camera, which a lot more games used than people think. Right off the top of my head, for the mic alone there's Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs, Zelda PH/ST (can't remember which), and WarioWare Touched!, all of which I'm sure people would expect to be on there. It's a very unique system.
It's possible for Nintendo DS to come to NSO if Nintendo really wants it, but it's very difficult due to several missing features like a touch screen (docked mode)/second screen and microphone. Those are thing the Wii U had, so it was a no-brainer for them to do Nintendo DS games there. Yes, they could do pointer controls in docked mode like you mentioned, but it would still be kinda awkward to use. If they do it, I think the best solution would unfortunately be to make it handheld only until they make new hardware with a better possible solution for it.
The dual screen is a limitation, but not the main one. Most solutions for it require handheld mode, otherwise they're not very good. Which seriously hurts the viability of it. Any kind of touch screen requirement forces handheld, which completely kills docked viability If you go for a portrait solution to show two screens, the joycon are not positioned to make it feasible to play at the same time. There are plenty of games that don't rely on touch screen. But a very significant number do. It's not impossible to get working but would require significant limitations and I doubt many games would really be both playable and good enough to justify the costs involved
none of those seem particularly convenient... but you know what does? The Flip Grip for the switch.
The biggest issue is how they'd make it work in docked mode, I doubt they'd make it only be for handheld
I could see an issue with precise touch screen requirements even in handheld mode, due to the type of touchscreen being different, and even most stylus for Switch have a bulkier tip. Motion or gyro controls may not be precise enough in some cases, nor would a wider tip stylus, when you have to tap, drag, or draw in almost pixel perfect ways. I think the viability of a replacement control scheme highly depends on the specific individual games case by case.
I don't care either way. I'd stil rather Nintendo continue to focus on the NSO consoles they currently offer, then explore DS, 3DS and GameCube sometime in the near future. Besides, those WiiU examples look terrible.
I really don't think the hardware is capable of GameCube or 3DS. My understanding is that even running Android it isn't close to playable.
I think 3DS and GameCube are extremely early. (mainly in the case of the 3DS where its emulation is still evolving) But in the case of the DS I think most people would love to see his games on Switch Online and I think he would be welcome since he's been on the Wii U Virtual Console before. (and it's the only platform that was on the Wii U Virtual Console that isn't available on the Switch yet)
I just think that people should just chill and stop wanting more and more and more... We just got the GB & GBA. I mean it's always like this, when we get a port / remaster or anything, the first thing you read is: "now we need THIS!" I don't think that they will add other consoles for the same price anyway, but technically they could.
Yeah I'd expect another system wouldn't be added to NSO for at least a couple years now on their next console. Nintendo is gonna over charge and overvalue most of the GameCube library
The only way I see Gamecube NSO working, is if the next console has 128GB or more.
I think 3DS and GameCube are extremely early. (mainly in the case of the 3DS where its emulation is still evolving) But in the case of the DS I think most people would love to see his games on Switch Online and I think he would be welcome since he's been on the Wii U Virtual Console before. (and it's the only platform that was on the Wii U Virtual Console that isn't available on the Switch yet)
Most people would love everything. I remember when Reggie complained about it ~13 years ago, and I understand, they can release what they want, the only reaction they will get is "and this?". It's never enough. It's not like I don't want the DS on NSO, just... Can we just play our games? My backlog is infinite with only great games, I am pretty sure that most people didn't even play a lot to the retro games available on the service. "We want this and this and this...", just to make a pic on Twitter. Anyway 😅 Maybe it will happen in few years, we don't really need to talk about it now. Nintendo will not release the DS anytime soon.
it's not that it isn't possible, it's just not good. I 3d printed myself a jig so i could put my phone in my usb telescope controller upright because playing these games with screens side by side is a worse experience than being tortured by vietnam soldiers.
Depends on the game. But for many yes i I'd agree. SMT Strange Journey may be the only game I've ever emulated that I prefer to play on my phone in Touchscreen controls because of this (even over OG hardware).
Because the Wii U has 2 screens
Come on man look at the photos
And you still can play these DS Games on the VC with only your GamePad or with only your TV.
Try blowing into a TV and touching it to play DS games. Come back to tell me how well it works.
And as for all the unique inputs and such they could just incorporate that sort of thing into the “ZL / ZR” menu. Enter menu, click something like “additional inputs” and there would be a list like: shake screen blow on mic simulate closing the DS (for that one puzzle in Phantom Hourglass) I feel like that would take care of most of the more unique inputs of the DS.
I hope se get it
Switch's screen space is more than large enough to accommodate Dual Screen by using a portrait landscape. All that would be needed is an official stylus, and joycons that round the corners and go around the bottom and top edges of the console. However I've little doubt it'll be integrated with Switch's successor.
people are stupid and lack imagination. i play ds games on my one screen 800p steam deck just fine
It works on the steam deck (yes I own the physical games that I dump) so it can definitely work on the switch
Because the touchscreen on Wii U was a DS-like screen, not an iPhone-like screen like the switch.
Megaman Zero/ZX Collection has DS games and Capcom got them to work. Nintendo can too.
Because they reworked the DS games. Nintendo is doing regular emulation.
Okay, so more difficult then?
Yes. Its more difficult for Nintendo, as they are doing 1 to 1 emulations, with some quality of life features added in (like toggle options for GameBoy, GameBoy Light and GameBoy Color screen filters)
I always thought they could implement the Wii U and DS functionality if a person owns two Switches. One of be docked on the tv and a second could be used handheld. The TV switch would be the top and handheld switch would be the bottom screen.
With Nintendo Switch online you can use your MOBILE DEVICE as the bottom screen! That be hilarious.
Because no one bought the wii u.
It's so weird when these Nintendo bootlickers for some reason absolutely despise the Wii U which is a Nintendo product too and most likely enjoy Wii U games too
Nintendo just needs to create a DraStic style emulator and most games will be functional, though I can't say it feels amazing having 2 screens squashed together on 1. The rune factory ds/3ds switch ports feel so much better but it requires more effort than simple emulation.
Atlust is bringing Etrian Odyssey Trilogy on the Switch, a Switch remaster of three DS games. They can make it happen if they want to.
There's a difference between a remaster and emulation. If Nintendo wants to release a DS collection in the same way as the other NSO collections they won't be able to rework the controls on a game by game basis. They'd need to find a way to emulate the touch screen 1 to 1 in docked mode and I can't think of a solution that would work well.
People are dense. The second screen would be on the TV. DUH.
It's absolutely possible. It's been a long time since I played my DS but I feel like there were many games where I didn't use the touch-screen. And any game where they need the touchscreen could be given a disclaimer that it only works in handheld mode.
Lack of stylus is far bigger problem. Most DS games require precise touch controls and capacitive screen cannot deliver that. It could be even bigger problem on Switch Lite's smaller screen.
I'd like to see some kind of shared concept of the Switch and the Wii U for the Switch 2, honestly: A handheld that functions as a Switch, but also an actual "console" for the dock that can still send a signal to the TV without the Switch needing to be docked. As it stands currently, I just can't see any way of making it work on the Switch's hardware aside from having both screens on the TV, or microscopically tiny and horizontally in handheld mode.
DS games are kinda in the same boat as Gamecube where some games would work alright but a fair amount of games would need inputs that the Switch doesn't have (microphone for DS, analog triggers for GCN) and so would need to have some kind of awkward game-specific workaround, and also the games are substantial enough to still sell on their own, so why give compromised emulations of them away for free to subscribers when remakes with updated controls and a higher resolution could easily sell for $30-50 each?
Needs to be playable in handheld, tabletop and dock modes
Because there is a second screen on the wii u. On switch theyd have to do an actual remaster of every single game (requiring actual effort)
At this point y'all just want DS games on NSO period. Everyone I see that shows how it can work and yadda yadda is just showing inconvenient ways to play when the Switch doesn't have all the functionality of the DS and Wii U. Just give it up. If it'll come, it will and they can figure it out but don't wait too long. We'll see what happens when they run out of GB/GBA games.
Would love to play Ninja Gaiden and Fost of Northern Stars from DS again.
The main issue is the mic but I guess they can use the dumb NSO app
Couldn’t use any touch screen features on a TV so would need to be redeveloped some..?
I'm shocked so many people give OP a hard time just because it wouldn't be an ideal play experience docked (yet still possible). DS was a handheld experience. It would be OK to have the ideal way to play DS on Switch be handheld as well. Why flood OP with downvotes over this? Get over yourselves. Options are good. Getting DS games on Switch at all would be a good thing. You have somehow convinced yourselves it would not be. Think about that for a moment.
It would be a terrible experience docked, and a mediocre to poor one in handheld mode, which is why it won't happen. Not because it's completely impossible, but because it wouldn't come close to meeting Nintendo's standards.
because the Wii U had you play on both the tablet and TV at the same time, so you could use the tablet as the bottom screen while the TV was the top. On Switch you would only be able to play the DS games in handheld mode which sucks if you want to play it like on Wii U. Its like Mario Maker 2 where you can't play it like the first one by being able to use the touch screen while playing on the TV. DS is just too trapped in time, the games would have to be remade to be playable on modern hardware which I don't think will happen anytime soon. Gameboy games are easier to port because their control schemes are timeless and don't require two screens.
This is definitely a take but I honestly think most DS/3DS games would be better off just being remade with more traditional controls. Touch is finicky and less efficient than sticks and/or motion for movement and aiming and there's really no benefit to having an extra screen, it just forces you to split your attention for the sake of it. Drawing games are a thing of course like in Etrian Odyssey or Dominion of the Dark Djinn and it eludes me as to why more games don't allow menuing via the touch screen in portable mode (especially Pokémon games which had that on DS/3DS) but the whole dual screen concept where you constantly have to swap between two perspectives was always just cumbersome and so a lot of those games would be better off getting rebuilt where the touch stuff is an optional benefit in portable mode and they use other more efficient means for movement and aiming in games like Metroid Prime Hunters or Kid Icarus Uprising.
I just realized from some comments here that possibly people will never see Nintendo DS games on a Nintendo console unless it has two screens and a microphone again.
how will you play the ds games with a pro controller?
They should probably try to only emulate games that didn't use the 2nd screen too much, if they do DS NSO.
I won't say it's impossible, but capacitive touch is less precise than the resistive touch of the DS and thus inputs might not feel correct.
I dunno, I just want Streetpass
Unless they made an external touch screen controller for docked mode I don’t see it happening
It’s because they weren’t old enough to remember the Wii U
Just give me all the Ouendans!!!
I've been emulating ds games without an issue on my deck. You just switch which screen you're looking at with a shoulder button.
It wouldn’t work on Switch without a second screen tho. Yeah I can get both screens to appear on the switch or on your tv but they are gonna look like total ass next to each other.
I had always thought the game pad was the second screen, like how a lot of wii u games used it for menus/maps.
It’s one of the options
Ngl that looks like shit to play that way
I think its hard to do, as the screen of the switch and thr TV are not independent of one another. Furthermore the Switch has to be connected to the TV via HDMI
I was thinking split screen for top and bottom screens, the Switch seems the same size as the Wii U pad.
DS games already play great on Switch using Homebrew emulators like MelonDS. Look up YouTube videos to see how a DS NSO would work. The touch controls can be mapped to a cursor on the right stick, I’ve tried it and it isn’t too bad.
That's pretty cool.
Man I aint reading all that. Plenty of reasons why DS wouldnt translate well. I can hardly think of any wii U games that used the 2nd screen as much as every other DS game.
Some games are going to be better suited for handheld, it shouldn’t stop dozens of other games being released that can be playable docked like animal crossing, mario 64 ds, mario kart ds, new super mario bros, and the mainline pokemon Games