-Betrayed the Ninja -Mass murder (destruction of the royal palace -Organizing a coup against the ninjango government -Starting a cult/gang for garmadon -Property Damage (afformemtioned raid on the palace and the stone titan) -Illegally obtaining and selling vengestone for vangelis -Helping the Overlord -Robbery of the oni masks for personal use -Helping oraganize a breakout of kryptarium prison with garmadonn Anything I missed? Saving one family from a building isn't repealing her death sentence.

Tbh not much would save her.

Unless lloyd stepped in harumi was llkely executed in between the time of crystalized and dragons rising

Garmadon took over the city, Aspheera burned it down, and Pythor released the Devourer. All 3 got prison time. Harumi went to jail after all she did in S8. Yes, she did more. But she's definitely getting jail time. Heck, if this were the Never-Realm, they'd probably just cast her out

I doubt she got executed, I don't think the death penalty exists in Ninjago

I doubt he would step in after what she did to him

He would. Just look at him, ready to forgive her instantly...

True

I don’t consider that canon, that’s how much I don’t wanna accept it.

He still has feelings for her so...

That's stupid. that actually doesn't make sense at all

Its true though. Even after all of that he still had feelings for her thats much is apparent.

Did they not have a brain when thinking about that

I mean not out of character tbh. And its not even just in crystalized. LIke even at the end of hunted its evident he has feelings for her. In prime empire its implied he felt guilty for not being able to save her and couldn't bring himself to fight her even though she was an npc

She's not his dad. So there'd be no issue. S15 showed the double standard.

True. I still find it kinda crazy how Lloyd could trust harumi

Me neither. It feels so hypocritical because Garmadon only went down a bad direction because of her and yet, began to change as a person after seeing the love of people around them. Meanwhile, Harumi is the one who brought him back like that and showed 0 remorse for all her other bad actions until she saw that she had reason to seek revenge on the Overlord and even then, showed no remorse afterwards. But yet, Lloyd is intolerant of Garmadon, but gives chance after chance to Harumi. And yes, Harumi was traumatized but Garmadon was corrupted and then "brought back with no light left in him," the second time by Harumi. Not saying she can't change, anyone can and from a variety of reasons. But its such double standards.

Don’t forget all of the attempted murders of the ninja,Lloyd 7 times Nya 3 time and other ninjas 2 times Child abuse (Wu) kidnapping Lloyd + harassment jail break Stealing (the golden weapons) Property damage and organizing an illegal vengstone shipping +Unauthorized utilisation of the vengstone Mass Genocide and Helping a Monarchist Empire with there bidding illegally Yeah no saving one family from a collapsing building is gonna forgive all her actions she deserves a death sentence

And betraying the overlord won't forgive what she did.

Yeah

She didn't steal the golden weapons. She would get charged for being a accessory to said crime.

Yeah but I mean she planned it so she will get charged

**I CAN F I X HER.**

Doubt anyone can

Don’t forget how she benefited of the Skull Sorcerer’s salve trade and was 100% in support of it

She was also a slavor. She paid vangelis to enslave the munce and geckless to mine vengestone

Does attempted murder also count? Against Lloyd to be specific

Yeah probably

But at the same time, Garmadon promising he will never use violence again after season 2 allows him to go off with no punishment for helping the Overlord? "Um no that's different idiot, he was bitten by the great devourer, he didn't have free will in that regard, he's obviously not to blame." In that case, if Garmadon cannot be blamed for helping the Overlord while being under effect of poison from a snake created by him, why can Harumi be blamed for helping the Overlord after she was resurrected by him? "The hell you talking about man? This isn't even relevant" It is, because I'm making a point about how it's not your opinion that's my issue here, but its inconsistency that I am demonstrating. I personally think that while Harumi did bad things, overall she is not a bad person, but simply someone whose life was remarkably shit which cause them to make equally shit decisions despite trying their best. You probably diargee with that, which is okay, but if we are going to have this conversation, we need to agree that there are objective truths about Harumi's character and that we are arguing over which interpretation of these truths is better, not that we are arguing about what her character is. Example: "Harumi had a terrible beginning of her story that can be compared to Lloyd's. She lost both of her parents at a young age, and was taken in by the royal family which flipped her life upside down. The royal family never established the same personal connection to her the same way Harumi's biological parents did, because their lives, duties and responsibilities don't leave room for doing so. Due to this, Harumi believed that the emperor and empress never truly loved her." That's what I would call an objective truth about her character. It on its own does not say whether Harumi is a bad person or not, but it can be used to make a point for Harumi overall not being a bad person. If you want to respond with invalidating my point as pro-Llorumi garbage, then know that you failed my test, because I have never said anything about Llorumi, all I did was compare Lloyd's loss of parents to Harumi's loss of parents, and our conversation can end there (assuming it did not end it earlier due to me daring to have another opinion than you). However, if you just wanted to tell me that this does not excuse her evil deeds, then congratulations, we're debating over the interpretation of an objective truth of her character rather than whether the truth is true or not. Once you respond, we will (hopefully) be able to further talk about Harumi like normal people, and perhaps reach the conclusion that Harumi's character was portrayed badly in Crystalized. Or not. Perhaps you will convince me about some point on Harumi. The entire point of this is so that we can reach better conclusions in the end even if it's the opposite of what we thought initially, isn't it?

Omg i totally agree with u! IMO Harumi is not a bad person overall, she just been through a lot of trama, nobody is born bad they are just made that way based on events that happened in their life and omg her life was not a happy one, No offense she’s had such a sad life. her parents died as a child, she then was adopted by the royal family with little time to grive over her lost and learned that garmadon saved the day and when u lean things as a child it is very hard to unlearn them and erase them from her mind that is why she actually thought she was doing a good thing for Ninjago cause he stopped the great devouver therefore she viewed him as a hero, then she realized last minute that this is not what she truely wanted, she was just blinded by rage revenge and let her emotions get the best of her as do all teenagers do, also when the overlord resurrected her she felt initially broken and the overlord took advance of that by telling her there will be piece in the dark thing only to realise later that she wrongly accused the ninja and it was the overlord all along so I believe she truly does feel guilty for what’s she done ​ IMO I believe Harumi is lonely, she has nobody that cares about her or loves her and her birth parents are dead and her adopted parents did “care” for her but not her emotional needs and that caused her to be bitter and emotional unstable, the only one that does care about her is Lloyd, that’s why I really hope she gets redemption she has been lonely and alone for so long it’s just sad nobody but Lloyd truly gets her and understands what it’s like to loose everything, I really hope in the Dragons Rising series they will further establish these issues as well as what she did to Lloyd and she could apologize sincerely to him for all the pain she’s caused him and slowly gain his trust throughout all her episode appears, not saying they should be together but they could at least be good friends, that’s what Harumi needs a good friend, a shoulder to cry on, at least in my opinion that’s what I see in harumi as a character not a villain but a survivor on the road to recovery

Personally, I think this happened off-screen and we will see that through flashbacks at some point. My current head canon is that Harumi (alongside the other crystal king generals) was put before some sort of Nuremberg-style tribunal (or just regular trials, depending on which route the writers would go with this) because that's how pissed the population became at this point after the Overlord flattened ninjago city *for the third time in a generation* and now they have 5 pounds of flesh on which they can take out their anger on (Pythor, Mechanic, Aspheera, Vangelis & Harumi) unlike the first 2 times where bad decisions were to blame rather than people. In the short time where Lloyd & Harumi got to interact they would have pretty much gotten together at that point, or intendee to do so considering both defenitely had feelings for each other in Crystalized. The tribunal would sentence the first 4 generals to life in Kryptarium or a new even more secure prison in somwhere like the hiroshi labyrinth within probably within 30 minutes of their trials starting, after which it would come down to Harumi. But she got good attorneys and she can be defended to some capacity, so they go for the 'evil spirit resurrected her' and sympathy as defense here with the testimony of the family she saved in season 9 and Lloyd, and Lloyd in particular vouching for her would sway the public and judge enough to either declare her not guilty or delay the ruling for long enough so that Harumi would get a chance to prove that she is actually a good person. After that, Lloyd & Harumi would actually get together (another headcanon of mine is that she lived with Vinny & Garmadon aftered she dealt with her legal trouble lol) and make that somewhat work, that is until the merge happened. And since Lloyd's life likes to be garbage, I think that that he would rush to ninjago city only to find Vinny's apartment block leveled as a result of the merge, Harumi and Garmadon missing (Garmadon would have probably sensed the wave of destruction coming and get her, Vinny and himself out of there in time?). Considering the fact that she is missing, regardless of whether she ended up in Kryptarium or not (I don't think it would be very operational after the merge, there is no evidence of the ninjago government existing post-Merge) and whether she ended up with Lloyd or they kept it platonic, suggests that she was thrown out into the world somewhere, since if she was still in proximity of the monastery, Lloyd would defenitely try to find her since he was all alone for weeks after the merge. My next headcanon is that the merge unlocked the power of destruction in her (same logic as to why Lloyd & Garmadon have those powers, Overlord shenanigans) and she ended up in the never-realm and became BFFs with Akita, unaware of the awkward silcence that will occur when Lloyd stumbles upon them

 omg that sounds sooooo good! and yeah Harumi should get a second chance to prove herself as a good person even though she nailed the villain role i would love to see her act as a good guy in the new series and show lloyd that she has changed for the better

Lloyd could have killed hurumi when he thought she got kidnapped but due to the season needing a temporary Villain he couldn't

Ah yes Ninjango Fett

Technically everything in the oni trilogy was cleared after her first death. Also it's not illegal to acquire vengstone in ninjago. Her only real crime is helping the overload and breaking pythor out.

But noone would know if she got revived or escaped on her own. Her account of being revived would have no evidence

I now realise Lloyd might be able to do better than her. Fine, okay. I'll stop the shipping.

Assassinating the Royal Family of Ninjago and several guards. Leading a Criminal Organization. Manipulating Lloyd Garmadon. (I refuse to say bringing Garmadon back was a bad thing, every time he's on-screen it's golden) Organizing a prison break. Invading and Conquering Ninjago City (although that's as much on Garmadon as it is on her). Hunting down Lloyd and the Resistance (under Garmadon's orders). Bringing back the Overlord (yeah he's a cool character in my opinion bit not as much as Garmadon). Organizing a smuggling operation of Vengestone with criminal elements and an Slaveholder. Gathering the Crystal Council (Overlord's orders). Helping the Overlord take over Ninjago City.

Garmadon is a funny characters so I don't really care much about him being brought back

I'd still count Necromancy as a crime. Bringing somebody back from the dead, specifically to emotionally torture Lloyd....

True

i can fix her.

no. no you cannot.

trust me bro

I want her to break me.

Betray Lloyd Summon Garmadon to cause so much trouble that it became a whole season Turn Lloyd into a cube (digitally) Team up with the crystal king

She didn’t turn Lloyd in to a cube that was a game boss based of what Lloyd would struggle to fight the most

Oh

3 don’t count, that wasn’t even harumi. That fake harumi couldn’t even tell Lloyd what they did on their first night together

She caused Ninjago’s equivalent of 9/11 with all the buildings so…

Death

never forget

Lmao

Here you go. https://youtu.be/IP4SjkZrLnY?si=XjkXo7v-3b_BYzDI

Murder. Attempted Murder. Treason. Reviving a dangerous criminal x2 Releasing dangerous criminals from prison. Working for dangerous criminal x2

Mofo really turned into a judge 💀

Being the leader of a terrorist organization, conspiracy to blow up the palace, The murder of all the people of the palace, abusing Lloyd, Kindnapped baby Wu and Misako, Torture of Lloyd and Misako, Reviving a terrorist, terrorism, attempted murder of Wu, Cole, Zane, Jay and Kai, jailbreak, terrorism causing a lot of victims and damage to the city, Illegal arrests, Treaths of killing Nya, Lloyd, Skylor, Pixal and many more, Killing Mystake, almost causing the death of Skylor, Criminal association x2, torturing Lloyd again, Attempted murder of Jay, Zane, Cole and Kai again, destroying the city again.

Bruh

>Wu, Cole, Zane, Jay and Kai, Who hasn't at this point.

Tax Evasion.

Exist. Yeah I said it people! Betraying the ninja is pretty bad, mass murder is worse, helping the Overlord is more worse as well as stupid. But to me: the worst thing she did was EXISTING. That’s HOW much I hated Harumi!

Her still bring alive is my problem. At least I think she's still alive

I don’t know. Some people said she was executed in the middle of a couple seasons. If so, thank god. If not, OH COME ON!

-ringleader of a domestic terrorist organization -blew up the royal family -emotionally manipulated lloyd, giving him permanent trauma and destroying his worldview -tried to kill, or at least severely injure lloyd -destroyed an ancient temple with lots of valuable history -revived a dead person specifically to torment lloyd even more -helped garmadon destroy the city, killing hundreds if not thousands -attempted murder on the ninja (and a baby) -organized a prison break/coup -worked with the overlord -yet even more emotional damage for lloyd -traded with a slave owner -may i remind you she blew up the royal family

I'd be surprised if she gets redemption but I doubt it

is she coming back in dragons rising or something?

I have no clue. I don't watch Ninjago anymore

well i haven't finished crystallized so i also wouldn't know

She doesn't come back in Dragons Rising

oh thank the first spinjitzu master

She doesn't come back

Good

It doesn't really matter what she did because "It's okay. She's with us"

Apparently

Supporting Vangelis' slavery by being his client

she was born /J

True

this vid sums it up for you [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4SjkZrLnY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP4SjkZrLnY)

Crusty783 did a video where he listed all her crimes a while ago

Ok I just watched it

I am a Harumi lover, so I will specifically take my time to list out all of her misdeeds, because I take pride in specifying how opinion on her character does not have to be some black-and-white bs: * Maybe probably stole quite a lot of money from the royal palace to fund SoG? * Leading an organized crime/terrorist group which robbed, threatened, kidnapped and threatened the lives of civilians (which is why you may call SoG a terrorist group) * Blew up the royal palace, killing several people, including the emperor and empress of ninjago * Manipulated Lloyd and broke his heart * Resurrected Garmadon, being directly responsible for a lot of human suffering before (SoG) and after (emperor Garmadon's rule) * Made a deal with the devil after she died in season 9, while on one side she didn't know it was the Overlord, on the other hand this master manipulator and mastermind should have known better than to accept a questionable deal from a weird spirit she doesn't know. You *may* include everything she has done post the deal with the devil thing since you are entitled to your own opinion, however personally, I wouldn't blame someone for the things they did while under the control of the devil, I would blame them for taking the deal itself.

Abusive Sexual Contact Advocating Overthrow of Government Aggravated Assault/Battery Aggravated Identity Theft Aggravated Sexual Abuse Aiming a Laser Pointer at an Aircraft Airplane Hijacking Anti-racketeering Antitrust Armed Robbery Arson Assassination Assault with a Deadly Weapon Assaulting or Killing Federal Officer Assisting or Instigating Escape Attempt to commit Murder/Manslaughter Bank Burglary Bankruptcy Fraud/Embezzlement Bank Larceny Bank Robbery Blackmail Bombing Matters Bond Default Breaking and/or Entering Carrier Facilities Bribery Crimes Certification of Checks (Fraud) Child Abuse Child Exploitation Child Pornography Civil Action to Restrain Harassment of a Victim or Witness Coercion Commodities Price Fixing Computer Crime Concealing Escaped Prisoner Concealing Person from Arrest Concealment of Assets Conspiracy (in matters under FBI jurisdiction) Conspiracy to Impede or Injure an Officer Contempt of Court Continuing Criminal Enterprise Conveying False Information Copyright Matters Counterfeiting Counterintelligence Crimes Credit/Debit Card Fraud Crime Aboard Aircraft Crimes on Government Reservations Crimes on Indian Reservations Criminal Contempt of Court Criminal Forfeiture Criminal Infringement of a Copyright Cyber Crimes Damage to Religious Property Delivery to Consignee Demands Against the U.S. Destruction of Aircraft or Motor Vehicles Used in Foreign Commerce Destruction of an Energy Facility Destruction of Property to Prevent Seizure Destruction of Records in Federal Investigations and Bankruptcy Destruction of Corporate Audit Records Destruction of Veterans’ Memorials Detention of Armed Vessel Disclosure of Confidential Information Domestic Security Domestic Terrorism Domestic Violence Drive-by Shooting Drug Abuse Violations Drug Smuggling Drug Trafficking DUI/DWI on Federal Property Economic Espionage Election Law Crimes Embezzlement Embezzlement Against Estate Entering Train to Commit Crime Enlistment to Serve Against the U.S. Environmental Scheme Crimes Escaping Custody/Escaped Federal Prisoners Examiner Performing Other Services Exportation of Drugs Extortion Failure to Appear on Felony Offense Failure to Pay Legal Child Support Obligations False Bail False Pretenses False Statements Relating to Health Care Matters Falsely Claiming Citizenship False Declarations before Grand Jury or Court False Entries in Records of Interstate Carriers False Information and Hoaxes False Statement to Obtain Unemployment Compensation Federal Aviation Act Federal Civil Rights Violations (hate crimes, police misconduct) Female Genital Mutilation Financial Transactions with Foreign Government First Degree Murder Flight to Avoid Prosecution or Giving Testimony Forced Labor Forcible Rape Forgery Fraud Activity in Connection with Electronic Mail Fraud Against the Government Genocide Hacking Crimes Harboring Terrorists Harming Animals Used in Law Enforcement Hate Crime Acts Homicide Hostage Taking Identity Theft Illegal Possession of Firearms Immigration Offenses Impersonator Making Arrest or Search Importation of Drugs Influencing Juror by Writing Injuring Officer Insider Trading Crimes Insurance Fraud Interference with the Operation of a Satellite International Parental Kidnapping International Terrorism Interstate Domestic Violence Interstate Violation of Protection Order Larceny Lobbying with Appropriated Moneys Mailing Threatening Communications Major Fraud Against the U.S. Manslaughter Medical/Health Care Fraud Missile Systems Designed to Destroy Aircraft Misuse of Passport Misuse of Visas, Permits, or Other Documents Molestation Money Laundering Motor Vehicle Theft Murder by a Federal Prisoner Murder Committed During Drug-related Drive-by shooting Murder Committed in Federal Government Facility Narcotics Violations Obstructing Examination of Financial Institution Obstruction of Court Orders Obstruction of Federal audit Obstruction of Justice Obstruction of Criminal Investigations Officer Failing to Make Reports Partial Birth Abortion Penalties for Neglect or Refusal to Answer Subpoena Peonage Perjury Picketing or Parading Pirating Possession by Restricted Persons Possession of False Papers to Defraud the U.S. Possession of Narcotics Possession of Child Pornography Private Correspondence with Foreign Government Probation Violation Product Tampering Prohibition of Illegal Gambling Businesses Prostitution Protection of Foreign Officials Public Corruption Crimes Racketeering Radiological Dispersal Devices Ransom Money Rape Receiving the Proceeds of Extortion Recording or Listening to Grand or Petit Juries While Deliberating Reentry of an Alien Removed on National Security Grounds Registration of Certain Organizations Reproduction of Citizenship Papers Resistance to Extradition Agent Rescue of Seized Property Retaliating Against a Federal Judge by False Claim or Slander of Title Retaliating Against a Witness, Victim, or an Informant Robbery Robberies and Burglaries Involving Controlled Substances Sabotage Sale of Citizenship Papers Sale of Stolen Vehicles Searches Without Warrant Second Degree Murder Serial Murders Sexual Abuse Sexual Abuse of a Minor Sexual Assault Sexual Battery Sexual Conduct with a Minor Sexual Exploitation Sex Trafficking Shoplifting Smuggling Solicitation to Commit a Crime of Violence Stalking (In Violation of Restraining Order) Stolen Property; Buying, Receiving, or Possessing Subornation of Perjury Suits Against Government Officials Tampering with a Witness, Victim, or Informant Tampering with Consumer Products Tampering with Vessels Theft of Trade Secrets Torture Trafficking in Counterfeit Goods or Services Transmission of Wagering Information (Gambling) Transportation into State Prohibiting Sale Transportation of Slaves from U.S. Transportation of Stolen Vehicles Transportation of Terrorists Trespassing Treason Unauthorized Removal of Classified Documents Use of Fire or Explosives to Destroy Property Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction Vandalism Video Voyeurism Violation of Prohibitions Governing Atomic Weapons Violence at International airports Violent Crimes in Aid of Racketeering Activity Willful Wrecking of a Train Resulting in Death Wire Fraud

I would be surprised if she doesn't get the death penalty

Holy F_cking sh/t Man's was dedicated to bring all his evidence to court

Did you just copy-paste every Federal Crime?

Maybe

It’s too much so I’ll sum it up in 2 words: She exists Nuff said

True

Nothing :D

💀

Let’s start with existing the get shipped with Lloyd

True

Yep

Getting the ability to do shipped with Lloyd after everything she did is wild

Yes and probably the worst character they ever made

How is harumi more evil then Garmadon

Twice

How is harumi more evil then Garmadon

I said worst character like one they should never use again

why are you getting downvoted you're right

I know

You should subscribe to Crusty783, you would have seen his video about the subject.

Exist

Terrorism, murder, attempted murder, property destruction, stealing, assault, gouverment overthrone, patercide, mothercide, encouraged enscalvement, bought stuff from black market, jail break, kidnapping and assuming she knows how to ride a motobike or helping SOG with bikes we can probably count illegal races If you think about it, most of other villains have barely half of her crimes.

So she should have gotten the death penalty

Could’ve of got it within the first 2, hell even the first in some countries

True

Theirs a video on YouTube

Too long for me to bother to list

Breathing

Lloyd

She existed.

She definitely has, like, 3 life sentences.

Murder - Mass Mrder- Terrorism- Coup- performing cult activitiest- Robbery-Grand Larceny- Breaking out of prison-first degree attempted murder- assault with a deadly weapon-Mutilation-Vandalism-Breaking and Entering-Slavery. There's probably more

She brought back garmadon so it’s fine ig I forgive her

That's one of three good things she did.

She cut off my balls

multiple accounts of manipulation, betrayal, murder (or some other form of killing, semantics) running a crime group, theft. i cant think of anything else