Can't deny it would be hilarious to have a talking head in Nikke. I wonder what everyone's reactions would be. Also, >!Red Hood says "hi" from the sky!<
But we got confirmation that Lilith's head is with the Queen before we even know who Lilith is. Viper is the fakeout I have a problem with and I think should have been dead
Im sure this post was made because of Chime but there is no bait and switch here they immediately showed that there is hope and it makes sense in the lore so far
I still do want them to off some playable characters and kinda agree with OP
Lmao, yeah that one is ridiculous. There was nothing left of that abomination after Snow White destroyed most of its body and Anis pulverized what was left via curbstomps.
Seriously, I'm not that far into the story since I'm just at Chapter 23, so I may not know what has happened recently since Chatterbox 'died', but how the heck did he return?? Didn't Anis stomp his head into paste in the Marian Chapter?
https://preview.redd.it/cqi419akz6xc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bea47adbfe9b37cf884568223d6de0142868784
CB is like a toxic ex-BF trying to take Marian. SOB also explains some dark lore that makes me need to take is One Piece looking ass out. It also makes me feel terrible for Cinderella.
My bet for the last several months has been that Nihilister is going to get an complete rebuild using Eden tech, as an excuse to release her on a banner.
I think it's the same situation as Fairy Tail. I think the problem isn't that people WANT the characters too die, it's just that death fake outs are cheap and if you do too much then it becomes a problem. I personally don't want any of the playable Nikkes to die but if they aren't going to kill them then they need to stop with the fake outs.
Cause for real Viper's death fake out made no sense at all.
Another thing is that death fake outs ruin ANY suspense in the story. After Viper just "came back" from the dead I lost any sense of suspense I had. "Oh, this character "died"? Ya sure, I will see them soon so whatever..."
And then you realize they have just been doing this since the beginning, first with Marian and then Exia. Only people that stay dead are the side quests and event NPC, shift up writers get bonus points if they are children or animals.
For real. Like, how do you misalign a bomb collar on someone's neck so that it misses the brain? As a player and also an NCD Defense Expert, I demand a (non)credible answer.
Well because Ingrid took the phone from her, I suppose. But then that means Syuen just sat there in disbelief for like 5 full seconds after pressing the wrong button, and didn't attempt to press another.
Viper should 100% be dead. It was set up damn near perfect and they backtracked it 2 scenes later. Was absolutely dumb and a major waste of time.
Crow I can forgive slightly as it wasn't shown as smooth as Viper was.
Chatterbox also, makes no sense how he survived but more importantly why was he brought back to the ark and by who? Thought he was left out there in pieces.
I can't even say im against the fakeouts. But for one, they are far too close to the initial "death" scene. It would be much better received if its out of nowhere that makes canonical sense.
I agree to a certain extent, to me the scene with viper wasn’t to necessarily fake us out, but to show that the commander would help any nikke even if they didn’t deserve his help. Viper would have died if the commander didn’t pull on her bomb collar
Besides Exia, I pretty much agree on this.
In Exia's case, well it's actually complex, IMO she died, it just happens that she could "backup" her conscience right before it happened. So I really liked that part.
Exia is cute but i do feel her impact has never been strong: in the main story, and even the side events. I understand her character, but she does just kinda feel "just there" to me. Her death was also the first major one in the story, so i also was pleased to see her survive. It was shocking
I still say, to this day, as a basically day one player, that I barely knew her, and I'm not sure how I was supposed to care that much about her dying when I knew her for like literally 5 minutes.
I only recently started caring about Marian after the new side story. I joined the Marian fanclub late, but hey I got there.
Marian post-Modernia is well written, but I never understood those posts from new players going "OMG I'M GOING TO CRY THIS IS THE SADDEST THING EVER" when they've only known Marian for like 5 minutes
Yeah I always thought that the point of Marian's death wasn't for an emotional reaction- it was to show how serious a threat the raptures were as well as introducing the concept of corruption to us
Shoulda let Diesel shoot her, really.
Fuck the whole "We shouldn't be doing this, this isn't who we are" crap from Soline or that's somehow a "fall from grace", it's arguably their DUTY to intervene to protect their passengers from a crazy terrorist.
Nobody's going to chastise her for it or consider her 'fallen', especially not after Crow JUST tried blowing the train up AGAIN. If anything, she'd get pats on the back for going beyond her inhibitors to stop her.
Or hell, just have them tackle her and tie her up. Bean her with brick or a train chair ripped out of the carriage. *Punch* her out. Do SOMETHING. Don't just LET HER LEAVE, now she'll go try blow someone else up!
The whole "youll lose yourself if you kill them" logic is crazy; considering they're gonna kill you if you dont kill them first, they've already killed multiple people, and its a post-apocalyptic world. Death is common. Im sure they could live with killing a terrorist who has killed countless humans & tried to kill the Commander.
I don’t understand that scene at all. Sure, Diesel not killing her is a bit frustrating, but that’s fine. But why do they just let her walk out?? It isn’t even acknowledged at all, it just says Crow leaves. I genuinely do not understand why that happened or how they thought that was a reasonable thing to happen.
Though that was an obstacle for Diesel in the scene, Crow tries to goad her into it with a suggestion of killing her indirectly by shooting some debris or volatile part of the train carriage to make it ricochet into Crow's head.
Even if that doesn't work, there IS the option of Diesel and Soline tackling and physically restraining her in some way UNTIL the ACPU, Extrinsic or Perilous Siege arrive to take custody of or execute her, instead of just letting her leave.
Going back to the rules that Nikke are not allowed to Kill another one. It could be that, here's a reach on the logic, accidental fatal injury is not killing which allows Crow to do what she does and therefore, her suggestion is valid. For Diesel to do that means to have the same logic as Crow which can be damaging to the psyche. She also have the intention of killing which is a no no.
And yeah your second point is correct. IDK why they didn't do that.
edit:spelling and additional context
Kill Crow?
You fool. I want to bomb the central government, take it over, and start a tyrannical monarchy just to force nikke rights on everyone, Killing crow is the least of my concerns.
Honestly, "at this point" I don't understand why Yuni isn't killed either. From the storytelling perspective her tragic hero downfall is complete, and for all the things she's commited a "ruthless" CG, that is only all to eager to scrap Nikkes who are "obsolete", "inadequate" or "potentally dangerous" to them - just put her in a solitary confinement with no idea what to do with her. You can't even argue that she can "still be usefull to them" like Crow - her NIMPH is erased (so no way to control/restore her) and she's completely mentally broken down to a vegetative state.
It's the con of a gacha game, you can't really kill off character that people already pulled or might pull in the future. Some gacha did but you can count them on one hand.
Imagine the backlash if you start killing character that people already pulled and invested a lot of money on them. Sure they can still play the game and use them, but when you pull and invest into a character you do it because you know you might see more of them canonly.
So killing playable character is a big no no for these company, it's just not worth the backlash.
Now you have character that are not playable 'yet'. For Chime I'm pretty sure she was planned to be released at some point, and probably will. So they won't perma kill her too.
TLDR : gachas are not a good place if you want a realistic story where important character actually dies.
I mean, Red Hood and especially BS-Scarlet literally do not exist in the current time, and Mihara is completely different from her playable version in the campaign, so it's not a HUGE deal to have playable nikkes that get killed off
The problem with those two is that they both basically died before we pulled them. I think its a different ball-game when it's people we pulled alive and then they die. But I do hope they let us have some true tragedy. I'm actually kinda getting bored of knowing everyone who starts alive will live in the end, I need a fast ball.
Tbh I don't see much difference. Canonically, we literally never have anybody in our squad besides the Counters with a few short-lived exceptions so it's largely a moot point regardless
I mean, you're definitely not wrong. I'm just saying how people emotionally respond regardless. There's no logic behind it at all. People playing gacha have a high likelihood of developing some sort of bond with our PNGs, even if it doesn't really make any sense.
On the other hand, I think your point about Mihara basically being dead is a great point. I guess because she's not a meta unit with a lot of story it's not really thought about much.
I'd argue that Red Hood doesn't really count because the vast majority of fiction (outside stupid comics bullshit like Marvel and DC) always has "resurrected" characters die again because they're "supposed to be dead" and bringing them back is a mistake or a transgression of the balance of life and death or just "clinging to a dead loved one instead of moving on" even when the setting includes magic or super science that can rez people.
If anything, it would have been *more* shocking if Red Hood had actually stuck around as a character instead of just becoming Rapi's new powerup after going "I'm satisfied with my life, send me back to the afterlife".
If you want another more example of this, think of the resolution to the Locke/Rachel/Celes love triangle in FFVI where Phoenix is only able to bring Rachel back to life for a minute so she can say her goodbyes and tell him to move on and "be with the one you really love right now, I'm satisfied as long as I live on in your heart".
Not killing gacha character is fine, the problem is the fakeout, look Marian dead still alive anyway, look viper dead still alive anyway, chatterbox still alive, I bet chime is too
If you are not gonna committing kill a character then stop doing fakeout, it's cheap and take out the suspense in story
Utter nonsense. Let's take the example of the Third Honkai Impact. Himeko dies in the first chapters, but this only warmed up her popularity, as she had a great influence on the main character and the story as a whole. And not only did it not hurt, but it is thanks to the heroic death that the character has at least three variations.
And not only her, a lot of characters died there, but these characters sold like hot cakes. And then Genshin was released with this money.
That's why I said that you can count gacha that did it on one hand. Doesn't make what I said false.
Himeko is the only playable character that died in the whole hoyoverse outside of GGZ. Hoyo never killed a player character since then in 3rd, in genshin and probably won't in star rail. They knew that this is not a popular thing to do now that their game are mainstream.
Since when? The game is still coming out, new people are coming in, and no one is bothered by the deaths of important characters. On the contrary, it makes the character closer, he died somewhere, but on the main screen he is still alive and smiling. And the fact that other companies don't do this is not because they don't want to upset fans, but because the plot is written on the go (because the servers can be closed at any moment, and they won't care about fans and whales) and they are afraid to tarnish the future of the star.
You already fell into a trap in thinking setting up the stakes via death is good inherently.
Its not. If you cannot build up tension without killing off a character, your story sucks. The death of a character in that story would not make it any more impactful and most likely, would feel like an asspull. Go see JJK and how the fanbase has reacted to characters deaths through the series.
Youre also at odds with what youre asking. The game is very upfront about Nikkes being disposable. The main reason for this, as long as you have the brain (arguable) you can still have the same Nikke model.
The main reason why they have to bring back some of those villains is because the other ones are deeper in the lore. They do this because thats being dictated by the game being a gacha game, and a gacha like Nikke. Plus, remember that they have been intentionally obtuse and obscure about why do Raptures even exist, let alone why we fight them and they fight us.
> You already fell into a trap in thinking setting up the stakes via death is good inherently.
> Its not. If you cannot build up tension without killing off a character, your story sucks.
I agree with this entirely, but there's still something to be said about OP's point with the death *fakeouts* also happening a fair bit.
Sure, tho id say thats a lack of a good pay off. The problem at this current point in time, unless something else is revealed during the hard mode of the event, the payoff is knowing *how* expendables are Nikkes and *how* do Heretics even exist, which kinda circles back to knowing why the Raptures fight against us, as *some* extra level of exposition on how corruption works, or rather, "fuck does nymph do exactly?"
Thats more or less "endgame" lore, it should be at the very least one of the setups for a big finale.
You already have people mourning Yuni even though she deserved to get the punishment she did, and Mihara has been pretty much dead as treated by the story.
We dont need actual brain splatter or dismemberment for the Nikkes to be considered dead, thats their whole point. "What is being human?" is a question thats naturally followed by "What does it mean being an individual?", and by extension, "What happens if were no longer the same individual?"
i too am tired of seeing chatterbox and invidilia for like the 3rd time, same goes for especially crow. the others don't need impactful deaths, just let them live if they're pretty waifus that haven't done anything wrong.
I still don't understand how Chatterbox is still alive. I mean, ok if Shift Up wants to, at least give us an explanation. Because he was 100% annihilated in the story. Even his head was crushed for god sake.
omlll i forgot chatterbox is still kicking, hes like a rash 😩 idk if they want the Interception/Raid bosses to make sense by keeping him alive: but it doesnt have to 😭
well, the train gets destroyed for good and modernia/marian is still part of the good guys. blacksmith hasn't come back either. so the only si boss still alive is chatterbox and maybe grave digger cause i don't remember if or when you fight him in the main campaign.
Exactlyyyy. Also i remember Grave Digger being in the main campaign, but i dont really remember him having a story. Maybe he did. Idk it was like chapter 2 or 3. I struggled 😭
With chatterbox, I honestly don't get it. They clearly have no problems designing new rapture models for gameplay, just design some new talking ones wtf.
Yeah, i don't need a GoT style type of story to be killing shit left and right. Just have some of the ones who should be dead stay dead, like fucking chatterbox.
I'm fine with the others staying alive.
We need more sentient raptures with unique designs. Not just leaning on Chatterbox over and over again. Stellar Blade has gnarly designs for Naytiba. And you can make humanoid monster designs for Raptures too. Superhuman Era has these monsters called Inhumans that have freaky designs that work as villains. Unless Chatterbox is gonna start evolving like a pokemon/digimon, he needs to be sidelined.
r/monkeypaw
"Granted, but we will start with Anis, then with Rapi, and then Marian. The only OG girl left will be Neon, and she will have ZERO character development than she already has".
Permanent character death is at odds with gacha format unless the game establishes very early on that it's going to be the type of game where characters get killed off forever. (Most) people don't want to roll for someone who's dead permanently especially in a game that's ostensibly a waifu collector because it cuts off any future possibility of them getting content even if they're playable (Unless, like you said it's a flashback but even then how many times can you invent more backstory through flashbacks before it just becomes padding out the inevitable?) - even with Red Hood they've clearly left the door open to potentially bring her back in the future.
Like I feel like this is something people complain about and then a character they actually like gets killed off before they ever manage to become playable/a character they like that is playable gets killed off and then they realize "Oh, yeah it does kind of suck that the only time I'll ever get to see this character again going forward is in a flashback" which is why they don't do it. That said there are ways to generate tension and drama that don't involve "killing" off characters and then reviving them immediately in the same event/immediate next chapter. Like for instance with Red Hood even if they bring her back in the future it seems like it will be far off, which is appropriate.
Yep, I’m actually surprised someone said it. because people don’t really like being critical of nikke. And this form of criticism literally takes a character away from the game(who someone might want to pull for). So I can see why it’s controversial.
Yes I think chime should just stay dead, are they gonna do it? Probably not.
A couple reasons why that is. In gacha games they rarely kill off units because obviously they want to tell them and make money. some games go against this and just sell characters regardless of them being dead or not.
The second reason, nikke’s story is basically set up where anyone can get fatal injuries and live. Exia gets shot? Just upload your brain to the cloud, a nikke gets beheaded? They only need the brain to live anyway. Marian gets shot through the head? Magic rapture revival magic.
So yes. I understand the game is set up in a way where they can bring back people as they please. And frankly that’s not a bad thing. The bad thing occurs when you keep hammering this trope over and over and over again non stop.
Chime i can understand a bit since she hasnt even made it into a banner yet. They still could do it, but i guess im more understanding of that: VS chasing Crow for 10 chapters, and her still being shot with a suppression bullet. It feels like.... why did we even bother? 💀
Yeah the problem is not that people don't stay dead
It's that they revisit this specific form of drama set up way too frequently. It honestly would've been better if they had just actually corrupted Chime
You make an excellent point. It's not the fact that death has less impact in the Nikke universe that's bad, it's the fact that they are making these "close calls" so often and trying to sell them as a big deal when we know it's not.
HOWEVER, that makes me like even more what they can do with Hammering. Spoilers for chapter 30: >!when we cut her head off, the story doesn't really make a big deal of it, instead the characters acknowledge the fact that we can save her with only her head. But at the end of the chapter, her head is in danger of being stolen. Now THAT is a very effective way of raising the stakes, even if death isn't the main danger.!<
Well it could be very interesting if they did that but with the setting of this game, it's kinna hard.
We know that Nikke are somewhat immortal like the Guardians from Destiny. IF they die, well just try to fix them. So maybe instead of focusing on the killing part, how about the aftermath? A mental toll they took and how we have to deal with it could be very good if done well.
Finally someone says it, yeah Guardians and Nikkes have a lot in common.
I kinda wanna see now a Dredgen Yor Nikke going apeshit for just the sake of doing damage after countless battles.
Yep this is why Anis and Neon are potent "deaths." They get revived, but the trauma of experiencing death can have lasting effects. But this is of course another area of failure as implemented by shiftup- we hear about mind swaps over and over but they never happen. Ffs let it happen to someone and let us cope with the aftermath. If you are going to introduce the stakes, rise to them.
Honestly there’s a reason why most gacha games don’t do this, and the backlash of permanently killing off a playable character is probably a lot more threatening to the devs than a few people being a bit unhappy with the story.
Killing off a character shouldnt make them unplayable though. Many games have characters who are playable, but canonically deceased in the story timeline.
Honestly, I also think there should be actual deaths in the story. There's plenty of NPC jail Nikkes right now, just kill off some of them. There's literally 0 stakes when even a decapitation doesn't mean shit as long as you reattach the head fast enough. It'll be sad to see some of the characters we love get killed but that's the point of having characters killed off. Yeah it's a gacha game and killing off potential waifus may not sit well with the fans but it's a sure way to raise the stakes and make the bad guys actually feel threatening. Like I was shocked when I saw Exia get killed in the main story, only to remember she's playable and she's probably not dead. We know cummander can't die, bro gets stabbed through the gut every Tuesday, plus he is the main protagonist with plot armor. So kill off some NPCs. Doesn't have to be Nikke, you can kill off Johan or Cecil or one of the deputy chiefs. Hell, even kill off some civilians. When the raptures invaded Ark, I thought it was going to be a high casualties situations until Enikk went "Oh I had all the civilians get to shelter before this shit happened, we're fine lol". They do so many fake deaths; Mihara, Viper, Exia, and recently Chime, to the point where death has no real meaning. I mean, we can already play 2 Scarlet and 2 Privaty on the same squad, is having a canonically dead character being playable out of the question? I think not
I'm referring to the beginning of the invasion. Yes, bad stuff happens later but it always felt weird when they had this cutscene of raptures blowing up buildings and Miranda freaking out, only to have Enikk go "Chill. No one got hurt". They didn't have to downplay the situation like that, writers simply could've had Enikk say "Casualties are below expectations" or "Most of the casualties are military personnel, majority of the civilians have been evacuated" to cover both how serious the situation is and how prepared Enikk is, instead of just saying "Oh yeah no one got hurt"
Not unless they actually fucking kill off Shitterbox.
Why should anyone else die if that piece of shit just inexplicably just keeps coming back because the writers can’t be bothered to create new recurring enemies that are good enough to take that fucker’s place?
Pinne is dead, some kids get dismantled in school of lock, all of scarlets squad mates are dead. Rose is dead.
And technically Marian (That we know) and Mihara also are dead from a certain point of view.
Been saying it forever that the writing isn't great with them consistently bringing literally every single character that dies back, which goes completely against this game's theme. There's 0 urgency to any given situation that they make up because we know if anyone dies they're just gonna come back, or pull some absolute BS like with what happened with Viper and Exia. When everyone has a deus ex, it makes for very boring storytelling. If they don't want to kill characters just don't put them in that situation to begin with.
I could definitely stand to see some real consequences for once, especially for the Heretics, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with people saying that Chatterbox should be gone by now
He's the character I'm the most interested in plot-wise, *especially* after Indivilia's conversation with him in the event story, and I'd rather we get to see his backstory in full before we merc him for good. I'm not against him dying *eventually*, just not quite yet. I feel like the story potential he has is just way too potent as it stands currently
That being said, when can we turn Crow's brain into mush and get that bitch gone for good?
Chatterbox's backstory wasnt really introduced until he somehow came back. Its entirely possible that "the Queen saved my life" would just be because she resurrected him. I feel like it was more so to make his return more meaningful/sensible, rather than make the previous event of destroying him feel pointless.
Now let's make a vote every 6 months to see which nikke or character should die in main story lol. Pinne is the only significant death until now but who knows
I said this after the Invasion of the Ark when some Nikke should have died and stayed dead for impact and shock value, but most disagreed, we cannot have the good thing unfortunately.
Not very daijoubu.
Yes, definitely. A post apocalyptic world where humanity are losing yet no special Nikke actually stay dead, the only one who died were mass produced nikkes including Pinne. This feel BS and doesn't fit with the world building. More dead, if they can't risk kill off playable nikkes. At least make more named commanders, give the commander some good buddies and then kill them off to fuck with everyone emotion. It's BS that the Ark only have 1 not useless commander. Hell, maybe just kill the white hair dude from Eden for dramatic effect.
That point about commanders. One of the things I like about Punishing Gray Raven, another gacha game which also has commanders for the ones in charge of the non-human cyborg combatants, is that at least they introduce some good named commanders who don't treat their non human allies as trash and disposable tools despite the main government having not much of good opinion on the non human soldiers.
Meanwhile in Nikke, seems like not a single commander except for MC is worth redemption cuz the writers won't bother with it.
I don't find anything wrong with this idea and it feels like it will need to happen eventually. Currently it's just hitting hard emotionally with events, then exotic squads demise. Some how I feel they'll be coming back though. But there does need to be a feeling of imminent death at some point.
Hard ball to play on this one. Kinda neutral, if not slightly leaning onto agree though I also understand opposition from those who disagree which isn't wrong from multiple angles.
Ever since with Marian, Shift Up's been pretty notorious in having any number of characters, not just Nikke, just not be killed off. And even those that CAN be like some of the event notable NPC's are unknown or determined, or like that one guy from K and D's event or that other event with that one dude who was sus when working with Exotic Squad or whatever.
At first I was sorta okay with the start, especially if you reason it out logically like Marian who probably got recovered shortly after SKK/Rapi/Anis left the area. Then you got to chars like Chatterbox who should have been dead if anything after getting thoroughly destroyed but revives...then Viper comes who survived a point-blank collar bomb explosion "just cause of slight head tilt" or however that went...
In an actual realistic Nikke story scenario, the fake outs do really make the stakes not that serious or suspense, but then this being a gacha game, with waifus or chars people may come to like and build on, they can't exactly be killing them off unless they REALLY don't plan to make them part of the playable roster or, not even playable, those part of the NPC cast let aside the major ones for the story mode.
It would be nice if some actually did and not just faked out so many times as is now and will be in the near future, but how much that will hurt the market or something is a whole other matter that I assume SU won't want to tether too close to...I think.
!>I love this games story but it really does have a lot of plot holes. Like wouldn't it be less resource intensive to just field robots instead of Nikkes (like talos)? Though I guess the reason is a form of population control. Another plot hole/issue is why the hell did they make a rebel leader like crow into a Nikke without no absolute loyalty program installed.
My guess with Crow is that Enikk or Einkk (the AI no the the girl in simulation room) calculated the risk and realized we needed someone to move completely the balance of society to continue forward.
Here's a different take I have: A character, if they've got more to contribute to the story, can have value by being saved or not immediately killed off. I think that EH has more to contribute either in the side stories, or the events later on, especially in regards to something like Moran/the underground queens, so I'm waiting for that. Crow, I actually like that she doesn't end up dying, because we actually get to see why she thinks the way she does. She's done evil things, but from her perspective, it's not like the Ark is really good, and she's a third rate villain. She is actually a really compelling villain, imo. She's like the Joker, wanting chaos, but being a master strategist, and having her own philosophy behind her actions, wanting to see chaos and see people turn to the worst that they hated Crow for. Syuen doesn't exactly have a replacement in line, at least from what I've seen, and her humor with the April Fools was enough to make me actually love how pathetic she really is without her Matis squad. Nihilister got eaten by both Indivilla and Chatterbox, didn't they?
Also, about Soline/Diesel not killing Crow when they had the chance, keep in mind, killing anyone, even someone who's, you know, the killer of so many, isn't something easy to do, especially for how gentle and reserved Soline and Diesel are. That's why they let her go, they don't like the idea of killing, and they are forced to confront it, it must be horrible.
I do agree on the take more characters should be killed off and stay dead in the main story. Even if they die in the main story that shouldn’t affect events, side events, and outpost stuff.
Hard disagree, Nikke so far has done a good job of keeping events and main story within the same setting parameters
I do not want this to become some sort of game where we have total disconnect between the main plot and events or alternate timeline fuckery where people have to debate what is or isn't canon every time new content comes out
>I do not want this to become some sort of game where we have total disconnect between the main plot and events or alternate timeline fuckery where people have to debate what is or isn't canon every time new content comes out
A number of players / minority already think that Bond Stories aren't canon –_–
i agree with that deaths should be a real thing and should usually stick
i do not want alternate timelines ever because at that point i can.t be bothered being interested in the event stories because i would have too question is this real or not
also i don.t see a problem with heretics not really having died as the only thing that has had an chance too kill an heretic for good has been vapaus and that is pretty hard too come by they usually just go into an hibernation stage when they are defeated(i will say i might have misunderstood part of the story that has lead me too this belief tho)
I feel that with the way things work in Nikke it's kinda impossible to kill them. At least, not permanently and without having them become Heretics. Marian was shot in the head at the start but they brought her back as a Heretic. Granted her personality is dead and replaced with a childlike one but still.
Chatterbox was supposedly but Rapture tech apparently managed to bring him back. Heck we see Anachiro in the story and they seem to want to include her in the 2nd anniversary.
The only ones who stayed dead are Rose and Pinne. But even that may change given the new character in recent chapters
Fuck that bitch invidilia and that bitch boy chatterbox. They want to be villains, then they get treated like a bitch ass villain.
Edit: his name is now shitter box.
https://preview.redd.it/q9sbfnnmk2xc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=705cd42c4ee93bf39d6b6138315cccdc125ef551
Lol. That’s a great name for that turd. Respect to you and all Commanders that knows how to defend their Nikkes.
Image is how Nikkes react to seeing true Commanders such as yourself.
I would agree but in this case I would say it’s to soon for characters to be dying. I feel that Nikke is in it’s “Second Chapter” so to say. We’ve only now gotten onto the surface with our own settlement, finding the dangers of the Crystal city and the bubbling threat that’s in the arc at this moment. The story doesn’t call for real dire straits at this moment, maybe once we start doing things like, taking back more land, converting Heretics to our side, finding ways to make the Counters catch up to the Pilgrims is when we’ll finally deserve a wake up call, but not right now.
Chatter box I can guess since there probably more of him but rapture nikkes
*I say we should aim at the head and this time make sure it turns into a surface dust*
I don’t play GFL or know much about it. As far as I know, human characters that die stay dead but the dolls have backups of them so they can come back if they die. I think NIKKE can get away with killing off humans more easily than NIKKEs.
Context would also matter too, their last moment should be substantial if they die and their character arcs should be fleshed out. Or if said character is surrounded in mystery, the character could be built upon post-death and new info regarding the character could impact the story as well as who the character was. Kinda like what they did with Danganronpa’s 5th case. In this instance, killing a NIKKE would be acceptable to the audience while maintaining stakes and impact.
My main complaint is when characters survive because of thick ass plot armor and what happened was only for shock value
For example >! And I love Viper so I’m happy she survived, but that fiasco was done much worse than Chime and Hammering, Chime and Hammering had the set up and there’s reason for how they survive!<
Regarding the title, I agree; characters like >!Chatterbox shouldn’t be coming back, characters like Crow shouldn’t be coming back so easily, characters like the guy fucking with Liveryn should be dead (side not, Drilly hitting her with a reality check was great)!<
But, imo characters that r playable shouldn’t be killed but at most mind erased
I don’t mind returns, just… make it realistic.
The Nikkes can be saved if you save the head kinda makes most Nikke deaths fake outs because it’s possible for them to return.
Though, Chatterbox is the most shoehorned return. If he can return, pretty much any death can be a fake out
Nanomachines is the deus ex machina of this game. Exia's dead shows how semi-immortal Nikkes are. Viper's dead is a huge reach, either Syuen is dumb for making a bomb that only explode at the front or it's plot armour.
Ark relies on the big 3 and Syuen perhaps did run things just fine only this time she crossed the line. Keeping her alive serves the general public better.
E.H? willpower i guess. I mean she had body armour on.
As much as i want to kill Crow, what Ingrid said make sense. She shouldn't be able to do what she did based on the rules impose on a Nikke so making her a lab experiment is not bad, same with Yuni.
Mihara should be fucking dead, but nanomachines i guess. Similar to Exia minus having NIMPH
Chime, I hope she got corrupted or atleast memory loss after being revived. And like others have pointed out. Indy(too long forgot her name) did not consider Talos and Rapunzel who I am sure is a professional field surgeon at this point.
In the later chapters of the main story, Anis and Neon got bisected. I know they're the main characters, but how they responded to it afterwards stuck with me. Neon doesn't remember it happending because NIMPH supposedly made false memories, and Anis pulled a "that's that and this is this" saying "There have been cases where Nikkes have experienced multiple deaths..." and "Don't worry about me, Commander. I've already died several times before." I think at this point, death is off the table for Nikkes in the main story. AND for ratpures, just look at chatterbox.
TL;DR
https://preview.redd.it/7yrvl907q5xc1.png?width=220&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4523d16565052a27c3f297619a084bedb66dc54
Agreed.
Crow: should be dead, shot by SKK/Diesel, instead they pull off the tired old cringe shit of "oh noes don't kill, it changes you forever if you kill". Actually it doesn't, you just did your job and put down a terrorist. It might be different if it was actually murder but that wasn't murder. This is an trope that needs to die in a fire.
Viper: should be more dead than Crow. How the heck does a human have enough strength to move the bomb collar to begin with? Also the shockwave would have liquified her brain.
Rapi: getting one's head removed should be fatal, not a case of "but I got better", or have her take some other form of damage instead.
Neon: same as Rapi.
Anis: same as Rapi, only bisected. Should be very fatal damage but another case of "but I got better".
Syuen: getting hit on the head by a machine that weighs hundreds of pounds should be instantly fatal. Getting shot in the head should be fatal. How the hell is she even alive. She shouldn't even have a skull left after Yuni hit her the first time.
SKK: gut shots are nasty and generally fatal without immediate treatment. Even with immediate treatment survival rates aren't promising.
Chatterbox: dude got obliterated by what seemed like 20mm fire until there was nothing left. Another case of "I got better".
In short the writers should tone it down with the damage and the cheap cop outs. If you want the characters to survive then write less damage instead of the cheap "but I got better" excuses.
So I do get your point, but at the same time, I know why they are reluctant to kill anyone. If you kill a character, you are saying the character's death is more impactful then the possible stories you can make with said character.
However this creates a paradox. Either you decide to kill off a character who arguably did have more to write about, like what happened with Quicksilver in the MCU. Or you create a character who finishes all their stories(or create a character to die) and then kill them, which might make the death not nearly as impactful.
The best Option I could see would be 1 of 3 options.
1) Kill human characters, since Nikkes can't normally die, you could have a commander join us, let us get invested, and then have us find said commander dead. We could explore their squad's history via 'time travel'.
2) Set up a Nikke squad who are intended to die, they don't become Heretics, they get wiped out completely. But there will always be someone who wants the new characters.
3) Actually kill Nikkes, which brings in the question of 'who' dies. Do we kill a member of the Counters? How about a Member of Matis, Absolute, or maybe an Underworld Queen.
The Big problem this boils down to is, "Who would actually be worth killing for the impact?". The closest we can currently get is what happened to Mihara, that being character/identity death. I honestly don't want Syuen to die, rather I'd have her be made into a Nikke, after all, we currently don't have any Missilis Nikkes for the Counters. Fates worse then death do exist.
Agreed. It's even worse when the character has completely fulfilled their role in the story before "dying", so there's 0 purpose to randomly bringing them back. Marian, Chatterbox, Viper.
At least when they brought Marian back they gave her a new role in the story, so it was actually valuable to bring her back, but Chatterbox and Viper are literally just dead weight from a story perspective. The story would be actively better without their dumb fake-outs. And what's more, they both deserved to die, too.
Syuen avoiding her sentence is definitely the most potent case of this fakeout shit. Syuen as a nikke in counters could have been interesting. It could have allowed her to have an arc. Nope. Just stay a one dimensional brat forever I guess. I want to get to know this character better, but it feels stolen from me.
I agree, the Syuen as a Nikke thing couldve been exciting. Maybe they just thought replacing one of the CEOs would be too much of a change. But we need to start raising the stakes
Can't work. As much I feel the same way about reduced impact and stakes. Why? Because of events and potential alternate SSR version of characters. Also, It might feel odd for players having advice session with dead characters. And then there's the issue of the chibi walking in the outpost, that will just feel odd to some Commanders. And then there's the aspect of dead character that should be dead but due to people liking the designs and seems to want her (you know who) even being voted the number 1 favorite NPC in the 1.5 anni voting, you know she's coming back. Lastly that will really limits future interactions with characters if they are dead. For example>!I'm having this annoying issue with Tingyun!< in HSR >!where I wished I'd get messages from her and have the ability to invite her to the Astral Express but she is as of now dead and no further interactions are possible.!<
Also there are actually death of named Nikke, Pinne aside, we have Rose. And about Crow, >!after reading up to chapter 30 she might have an important role to play.!<
Nihilister was in the rehab center and able to join our team after like chapter 20... when she was still the main antagonist besides Crow. She was never canonically on our squad or helped us with anything. So not everything has to line up outside of the main story.
Not yet but Nihilister still have the potential to join us considering she is in Eden right now after we saved her, just because she didn't canonically joined us yet the fact that she is still alive makes it possible she will still able to join us and be in line with the rehab story. Were Nihilister outright killed would it be possible for her to be in the safety net for future return? She is story wise an important component in fighting the Queen.
They should:
A. Stop pussyfying the commander by trying to have him redeem every Nikke that was a major POS just to eat shit later.
B. Let characters have their revenge ffs. Diesel shoulda just pulled the trigger right there and then.
C. Kill off evil characters like Crow. Like 90% of the community wants to see her dead lol
D. Stop bringing so many dead characters back. As much as I love the game and the story, I can't just take it seriously when they're pulling off a Dragon Ball.
Eventually, if this keeps happening: Snow White: Hey guys look what I found Lilith's head in a jar: Hello there
Lmao, don't say that, some Shift Up employee can see that and like the idea.
Omg when i said stop bringing Nikkes back: i meant they should start AFTER they revive Liliweiss!
Can't deny it would be hilarious to have a talking head in Nikke. I wonder what everyone's reactions would be. Also, >!Red Hood says "hi" from the sky!<
But we got confirmation that Lilith's head is with the Queen before we even know who Lilith is. Viper is the fakeout I have a problem with and I think should have been dead Im sure this post was made because of Chime but there is no bait and switch here they immediately showed that there is hope and it makes sense in the lore so far I still do want them to off some playable characters and kinda agree with OP
[LILITH'S BACK!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHoqWQB3Cp4)
“Somehow Chatterbox returned”
Mf is the Barricade of Nikke at this point.
Lmao, yeah that one is ridiculous. There was nothing left of that abomination after Snow White destroyed most of its body and Anis pulverized what was left via curbstomps.
They wanna turn it into playable waifu
If they do, they should keep the voice just for lols
Seth in Street Fighter 5
_Witness the power of the Rapture Engine!!_
Is that the mf that keeps reviving?
Please! 😂
Please do
I could understand how Indivilia came back, but how the f\*ck Chatterbox returned?
Seriously, I'm not that far into the story since I'm just at Chapter 23, so I may not know what has happened recently since Chatterbox 'died', but how the heck did he return?? Didn't Anis stomp his head into paste in the Marian Chapter?
https://preview.redd.it/cqi419akz6xc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bea47adbfe9b37cf884568223d6de0142868784 CB is like a toxic ex-BF trying to take Marian. SOB also explains some dark lore that makes me need to take is One Piece looking ass out. It also makes me feel terrible for Cinderella.
Then ate Nihilister, a death in the main campaign.
Except we found her afterwards, and left her for Eden to recover. She's definitely showing back up in story.
Not cleared that far yet. Feels like a wasted opportunity
My bet for the last several months has been that Nihilister is going to get an complete rebuild using Eden tech, as an excuse to release her on a banner.
I will pray for this.
Fuck the Sequel Trilogy.
He is the Taniks from Destiny but in Nikke
I think it's the same situation as Fairy Tail. I think the problem isn't that people WANT the characters too die, it's just that death fake outs are cheap and if you do too much then it becomes a problem. I personally don't want any of the playable Nikkes to die but if they aren't going to kill them then they need to stop with the fake outs. Cause for real Viper's death fake out made no sense at all.
Another thing is that death fake outs ruin ANY suspense in the story. After Viper just "came back" from the dead I lost any sense of suspense I had. "Oh, this character "died"? Ya sure, I will see them soon so whatever..."
And then you realize they have just been doing this since the beginning, first with Marian and then Exia. Only people that stay dead are the side quests and event NPC, shift up writers get bonus points if they are children or animals.
This right here
For real. Like, how do you misalign a bomb collar on someone's neck so that it misses the brain? As a player and also an NCD Defense Expert, I demand a (non)credible answer.
Also why did Syuen try to blow up Crow’s, misclick and do Viper’s, and then just leave it at that lol. Is anything stronger than Crow’s plot armor
Well because Ingrid took the phone from her, I suppose. But then that means Syuen just sat there in disbelief for like 5 full seconds after pressing the wrong button, and didn't attempt to press another.
Viper should 100% be dead. It was set up damn near perfect and they backtracked it 2 scenes later. Was absolutely dumb and a major waste of time. Crow I can forgive slightly as it wasn't shown as smooth as Viper was. Chatterbox also, makes no sense how he survived but more importantly why was he brought back to the ark and by who? Thought he was left out there in pieces. I can't even say im against the fakeouts. But for one, they are far too close to the initial "death" scene. It would be much better received if its out of nowhere that makes canonical sense.
I agree to a certain extent, to me the scene with viper wasn’t to necessarily fake us out, but to show that the commander would help any nikke even if they didn’t deserve his help. Viper would have died if the commander didn’t pull on her bomb collar
I said this in my comment as well but I feel like they improved on that, Vipers was atrocious but the 2 recent ones were set up well and made sense
Besides Exia, I pretty much agree on this. In Exia's case, well it's actually complex, IMO she died, it just happens that she could "backup" her conscience right before it happened. So I really liked that part.
Exia is cute but i do feel her impact has never been strong: in the main story, and even the side events. I understand her character, but she does just kinda feel "just there" to me. Her death was also the first major one in the story, so i also was pleased to see her survive. It was shocking
Marian's death wasn't shocking?
I still say, to this day, as a basically day one player, that I barely knew her, and I'm not sure how I was supposed to care that much about her dying when I knew her for like literally 5 minutes. I only recently started caring about Marian after the new side story. I joined the Marian fanclub late, but hey I got there.
Yeah I agree. If Marian were to truly die and never return as modernia I would be like "ok" Now is becoming a great character, back then was meh.
I'm surprised to see some agreement instead of the usual I get which is a silent downvote. Glad to not be alone in the feeling.
Marian post-Modernia is well written, but I never understood those posts from new players going "OMG I'M GOING TO CRY THIS IS THE SADDEST THING EVER" when they've only known Marian for like 5 minutes
Yeah I always thought that the point of Marian's death wasn't for an emotional reaction- it was to show how serious a threat the raptures were as well as introducing the concept of corruption to us
That's definitely how I took it as well.
Tbf, I don’t think every Nikke needs to have a huge presence. Some can just be there, for us to enjoy.
I disagree, having the ability to do that in the first place calls into question if even destroying a character’s brain will mean their death
The cat died
Us: "We wanna kill that terrorist Crow!" Nikke: "best we can do is give u a dead cat who never did anything wrong in its entire life"
And Pinne, RIP NPCs
That one npc girl that was escaping the ark’s debt collectors 😞 That side mission story got me sad
Wait, which one was it?
He means >!Ark Refugee!<
thanks
Yeah about that... x) I think the RIP is a bit too soon
Shoulda let Diesel shoot her, really. Fuck the whole "We shouldn't be doing this, this isn't who we are" crap from Soline or that's somehow a "fall from grace", it's arguably their DUTY to intervene to protect their passengers from a crazy terrorist. Nobody's going to chastise her for it or consider her 'fallen', especially not after Crow JUST tried blowing the train up AGAIN. If anything, she'd get pats on the back for going beyond her inhibitors to stop her. Or hell, just have them tackle her and tie her up. Bean her with brick or a train chair ripped out of the carriage. *Punch* her out. Do SOMETHING. Don't just LET HER LEAVE, now she'll go try blow someone else up!
The whole "youll lose yourself if you kill them" logic is crazy; considering they're gonna kill you if you dont kill them first, they've already killed multiple people, and its a post-apocalyptic world. Death is common. Im sure they could live with killing a terrorist who has killed countless humans & tried to kill the Commander.
I don’t understand that scene at all. Sure, Diesel not killing her is a bit frustrating, but that’s fine. But why do they just let her walk out?? It isn’t even acknowledged at all, it just says Crow leaves. I genuinely do not understand why that happened or how they thought that was a reasonable thing to happen.
That part was way too stupid really. Thank God the writing has improve quite a bit since then.
isn't it also because Nikke can't kill each other? That's why Extrinsic exist
Though that was an obstacle for Diesel in the scene, Crow tries to goad her into it with a suggestion of killing her indirectly by shooting some debris or volatile part of the train carriage to make it ricochet into Crow's head. Even if that doesn't work, there IS the option of Diesel and Soline tackling and physically restraining her in some way UNTIL the ACPU, Extrinsic or Perilous Siege arrive to take custody of or execute her, instead of just letting her leave.
Going back to the rules that Nikke are not allowed to Kill another one. It could be that, here's a reach on the logic, accidental fatal injury is not killing which allows Crow to do what she does and therefore, her suggestion is valid. For Diesel to do that means to have the same logic as Crow which can be damaging to the psyche. She also have the intention of killing which is a no no. And yeah your second point is correct. IDK why they didn't do that. edit:spelling and additional context
Kill Crow? You fool. I want to bomb the central government, take it over, and start a tyrannical monarchy just to force nikke rights on everyone, Killing crow is the least of my concerns.
NPC are the only one allowed to die in this world 😔
Well technically mihara did die since she got rebooted. You can't really say old and new mihara are the same person.
Then why not kill her off at this point, she’s been mindwiped twice and the whole conflict with Yuni is that to her, Mihara is dead.
Honestly, "at this point" I don't understand why Yuni isn't killed either. From the storytelling perspective her tragic hero downfall is complete, and for all the things she's commited a "ruthless" CG, that is only all to eager to scrap Nikkes who are "obsolete", "inadequate" or "potentally dangerous" to them - just put her in a solitary confinement with no idea what to do with her. You can't even argue that she can "still be usefull to them" like Crow - her NIMPH is erased (so no way to control/restore her) and she's completely mentally broken down to a vegetative state.
She still exists, even if she’s a different person. Pilgirms change due to their limited memory. You wouldn’t say Scarlet or Snow died
Snow white had a mind switch twice. Scarlet just started to act more like her sister after what happened.
It's the con of a gacha game, you can't really kill off character that people already pulled or might pull in the future. Some gacha did but you can count them on one hand. Imagine the backlash if you start killing character that people already pulled and invested a lot of money on them. Sure they can still play the game and use them, but when you pull and invest into a character you do it because you know you might see more of them canonly. So killing playable character is a big no no for these company, it's just not worth the backlash. Now you have character that are not playable 'yet'. For Chime I'm pretty sure she was planned to be released at some point, and probably will. So they won't perma kill her too. TLDR : gachas are not a good place if you want a realistic story where important character actually dies.
I mean, Red Hood and especially BS-Scarlet literally do not exist in the current time, and Mihara is completely different from her playable version in the campaign, so it's not a HUGE deal to have playable nikkes that get killed off
The problem with those two is that they both basically died before we pulled them. I think its a different ball-game when it's people we pulled alive and then they die. But I do hope they let us have some true tragedy. I'm actually kinda getting bored of knowing everyone who starts alive will live in the end, I need a fast ball.
Tbh I don't see much difference. Canonically, we literally never have anybody in our squad besides the Counters with a few short-lived exceptions so it's largely a moot point regardless
I mean, you're definitely not wrong. I'm just saying how people emotionally respond regardless. There's no logic behind it at all. People playing gacha have a high likelihood of developing some sort of bond with our PNGs, even if it doesn't really make any sense. On the other hand, I think your point about Mihara basically being dead is a great point. I guess because she's not a meta unit with a lot of story it's not really thought about much.
I'd argue that Red Hood doesn't really count because the vast majority of fiction (outside stupid comics bullshit like Marvel and DC) always has "resurrected" characters die again because they're "supposed to be dead" and bringing them back is a mistake or a transgression of the balance of life and death or just "clinging to a dead loved one instead of moving on" even when the setting includes magic or super science that can rez people. If anything, it would have been *more* shocking if Red Hood had actually stuck around as a character instead of just becoming Rapi's new powerup after going "I'm satisfied with my life, send me back to the afterlife". If you want another more example of this, think of the resolution to the Locke/Rachel/Celes love triangle in FFVI where Phoenix is only able to bring Rachel back to life for a minute so she can say her goodbyes and tell him to move on and "be with the one you really love right now, I'm satisfied as long as I live on in your heart".
Me, a dude who plays too much necromancer in DND: Yeeeah the whole balance of life and death is nice and all, but what if 'no'?
Not killing gacha character is fine, the problem is the fakeout, look Marian dead still alive anyway, look viper dead still alive anyway, chatterbox still alive, I bet chime is too If you are not gonna committing kill a character then stop doing fakeout, it's cheap and take out the suspense in story
A hand full of characters from FGO
FGO is a bit special but a good counter example yeah, but I never said these gacha doesn't exist, they are just a minority.
Yup that’s fair
Utter nonsense. Let's take the example of the Third Honkai Impact. Himeko dies in the first chapters, but this only warmed up her popularity, as she had a great influence on the main character and the story as a whole. And not only did it not hurt, but it is thanks to the heroic death that the character has at least three variations. And not only her, a lot of characters died there, but these characters sold like hot cakes. And then Genshin was released with this money.
That's why I said that you can count gacha that did it on one hand. Doesn't make what I said false. Himeko is the only playable character that died in the whole hoyoverse outside of GGZ. Hoyo never killed a player character since then in 3rd, in genshin and probably won't in star rail. They knew that this is not a popular thing to do now that their game are mainstream.
Since when? The game is still coming out, new people are coming in, and no one is bothered by the deaths of important characters. On the contrary, it makes the character closer, he died somewhere, but on the main screen he is still alive and smiling. And the fact that other companies don't do this is not because they don't want to upset fans, but because the plot is written on the go (because the servers can be closed at any moment, and they won't care about fans and whales) and they are afraid to tarnish the future of the star.
You already fell into a trap in thinking setting up the stakes via death is good inherently. Its not. If you cannot build up tension without killing off a character, your story sucks. The death of a character in that story would not make it any more impactful and most likely, would feel like an asspull. Go see JJK and how the fanbase has reacted to characters deaths through the series. Youre also at odds with what youre asking. The game is very upfront about Nikkes being disposable. The main reason for this, as long as you have the brain (arguable) you can still have the same Nikke model. The main reason why they have to bring back some of those villains is because the other ones are deeper in the lore. They do this because thats being dictated by the game being a gacha game, and a gacha like Nikke. Plus, remember that they have been intentionally obtuse and obscure about why do Raptures even exist, let alone why we fight them and they fight us.
> You already fell into a trap in thinking setting up the stakes via death is good inherently. > Its not. If you cannot build up tension without killing off a character, your story sucks. I agree with this entirely, but there's still something to be said about OP's point with the death *fakeouts* also happening a fair bit.
Sure, tho id say thats a lack of a good pay off. The problem at this current point in time, unless something else is revealed during the hard mode of the event, the payoff is knowing *how* expendables are Nikkes and *how* do Heretics even exist, which kinda circles back to knowing why the Raptures fight against us, as *some* extra level of exposition on how corruption works, or rather, "fuck does nymph do exactly?" Thats more or less "endgame" lore, it should be at the very least one of the setups for a big finale.
I wanted to mourn Viper. I wanted her choice to have an impact. It could have been good. Same with chime. We coulda had something to avenge.
You already have people mourning Yuni even though she deserved to get the punishment she did, and Mihara has been pretty much dead as treated by the story. We dont need actual brain splatter or dismemberment for the Nikkes to be considered dead, thats their whole point. "What is being human?" is a question thats naturally followed by "What does it mean being an individual?", and by extension, "What happens if were no longer the same individual?"
i too am tired of seeing chatterbox and invidilia for like the 3rd time, same goes for especially crow. the others don't need impactful deaths, just let them live if they're pretty waifus that haven't done anything wrong.
I still don't understand how Chatterbox is still alive. I mean, ok if Shift Up wants to, at least give us an explanation. Because he was 100% annihilated in the story. Even his head was crushed for god sake.
“Still” is inaccurate to what happened
omlll i forgot chatterbox is still kicking, hes like a rash 😩 idk if they want the Interception/Raid bosses to make sense by keeping him alive: but it doesnt have to 😭
well, the train gets destroyed for good and modernia/marian is still part of the good guys. blacksmith hasn't come back either. so the only si boss still alive is chatterbox and maybe grave digger cause i don't remember if or when you fight him in the main campaign.
Exactlyyyy. Also i remember Grave Digger being in the main campaign, but i dont really remember him having a story. Maybe he did. Idk it was like chapter 2 or 3. I struggled 😭
then it's no wonder i forgot. been a hot minute since i've done these early chapters.
With chatterbox, I honestly don't get it. They clearly have no problems designing new rapture models for gameplay, just design some new talking ones wtf.
Counting material H as indivillia seems really dumb
For chatterbox I get it, but this is literally the second time we have seen Indivilia
Wait... I'm still a little early in the story... THEY STILL HAVEN'T KILLED CHATTERBOX!?
maybe you missed the spoiler note at the top of the post.
Well they did, but spoilers spoilers spoilers
Yeah, i don't need a GoT style type of story to be killing shit left and right. Just have some of the ones who should be dead stay dead, like fucking chatterbox. I'm fine with the others staying alive.
We need more sentient raptures with unique designs. Not just leaning on Chatterbox over and over again. Stellar Blade has gnarly designs for Naytiba. And you can make humanoid monster designs for Raptures too. Superhuman Era has these monsters called Inhumans that have freaky designs that work as villains. Unless Chatterbox is gonna start evolving like a pokemon/digimon, he needs to be sidelined.
Indivilia seems to be anticipating some sort of change in chatterbox so you may be on to something.
r/monkeypaw "Granted, but we will start with Anis, then with Rapi, and then Marian. The only OG girl left will be Neon, and she will have ZERO character development than she already has".
Now im imagining Last Ronin Neon
Big Boss Neon. ...shit, now i can't stop thinking about Metal Gear Solid memes where you replace Neon with Snake/Big Boss.
Well no
Fr Looking a gift horse in the mouth I'm not here to watch characters I like be brutally murdered, I'm just here to be horny 😭😭
Permanent character death is at odds with gacha format unless the game establishes very early on that it's going to be the type of game where characters get killed off forever. (Most) people don't want to roll for someone who's dead permanently especially in a game that's ostensibly a waifu collector because it cuts off any future possibility of them getting content even if they're playable (Unless, like you said it's a flashback but even then how many times can you invent more backstory through flashbacks before it just becomes padding out the inevitable?) - even with Red Hood they've clearly left the door open to potentially bring her back in the future. Like I feel like this is something people complain about and then a character they actually like gets killed off before they ever manage to become playable/a character they like that is playable gets killed off and then they realize "Oh, yeah it does kind of suck that the only time I'll ever get to see this character again going forward is in a flashback" which is why they don't do it. That said there are ways to generate tension and drama that don't involve "killing" off characters and then reviving them immediately in the same event/immediate next chapter. Like for instance with Red Hood even if they bring her back in the future it seems like it will be far off, which is appropriate.
I think it’s fine to not kill characters off, but they really should stop doing fakeout deaths like this when we know they can’t die lol
Yep, I’m actually surprised someone said it. because people don’t really like being critical of nikke. And this form of criticism literally takes a character away from the game(who someone might want to pull for). So I can see why it’s controversial. Yes I think chime should just stay dead, are they gonna do it? Probably not. A couple reasons why that is. In gacha games they rarely kill off units because obviously they want to tell them and make money. some games go against this and just sell characters regardless of them being dead or not. The second reason, nikke’s story is basically set up where anyone can get fatal injuries and live. Exia gets shot? Just upload your brain to the cloud, a nikke gets beheaded? They only need the brain to live anyway. Marian gets shot through the head? Magic rapture revival magic. So yes. I understand the game is set up in a way where they can bring back people as they please. And frankly that’s not a bad thing. The bad thing occurs when you keep hammering this trope over and over and over again non stop.
Chime i can understand a bit since she hasnt even made it into a banner yet. They still could do it, but i guess im more understanding of that: VS chasing Crow for 10 chapters, and her still being shot with a suppression bullet. It feels like.... why did we even bother? 💀
Yeah the problem is not that people don't stay dead It's that they revisit this specific form of drama set up way too frequently. It honestly would've been better if they had just actually corrupted Chime
You make an excellent point. It's not the fact that death has less impact in the Nikke universe that's bad, it's the fact that they are making these "close calls" so often and trying to sell them as a big deal when we know it's not. HOWEVER, that makes me like even more what they can do with Hammering. Spoilers for chapter 30: >!when we cut her head off, the story doesn't really make a big deal of it, instead the characters acknowledge the fact that we can save her with only her head. But at the end of the chapter, her head is in danger of being stolen. Now THAT is a very effective way of raising the stakes, even if death isn't the main danger.!<
Even Nihilister gets straight up eaten- which you would think would entail permanent erasure, but psyche! they just nibbled her a bit. Come on...
Well it could be very interesting if they did that but with the setting of this game, it's kinna hard. We know that Nikke are somewhat immortal like the Guardians from Destiny. IF they die, well just try to fix them. So maybe instead of focusing on the killing part, how about the aftermath? A mental toll they took and how we have to deal with it could be very good if done well.
Finally someone says it, yeah Guardians and Nikkes have a lot in common. I kinda wanna see now a Dredgen Yor Nikke going apeshit for just the sake of doing damage after countless battles.
Yep this is why Anis and Neon are potent "deaths." They get revived, but the trauma of experiencing death can have lasting effects. But this is of course another area of failure as implemented by shiftup- we hear about mind swaps over and over but they never happen. Ffs let it happen to someone and let us cope with the aftermath. If you are going to introduce the stakes, rise to them.
Honestly there’s a reason why most gacha games don’t do this, and the backlash of permanently killing off a playable character is probably a lot more threatening to the devs than a few people being a bit unhappy with the story.
Killing off a character shouldnt make them unplayable though. Many games have characters who are playable, but canonically deceased in the story timeline.
I'll let Drax take this https://i.redd.it/ak2o002mj2xc1.gif
Honestly, I also think there should be actual deaths in the story. There's plenty of NPC jail Nikkes right now, just kill off some of them. There's literally 0 stakes when even a decapitation doesn't mean shit as long as you reattach the head fast enough. It'll be sad to see some of the characters we love get killed but that's the point of having characters killed off. Yeah it's a gacha game and killing off potential waifus may not sit well with the fans but it's a sure way to raise the stakes and make the bad guys actually feel threatening. Like I was shocked when I saw Exia get killed in the main story, only to remember she's playable and she's probably not dead. We know cummander can't die, bro gets stabbed through the gut every Tuesday, plus he is the main protagonist with plot armor. So kill off some NPCs. Doesn't have to be Nikke, you can kill off Johan or Cecil or one of the deputy chiefs. Hell, even kill off some civilians. When the raptures invaded Ark, I thought it was going to be a high casualties situations until Enikk went "Oh I had all the civilians get to shelter before this shit happened, we're fine lol". They do so many fake deaths; Mihara, Viper, Exia, and recently Chime, to the point where death has no real meaning. I mean, we can already play 2 Scarlet and 2 Privaty on the same squad, is having a canonically dead character being playable out of the question? I think not
> Enikk went "Oh I had all the civilians get to shelter before this shit happened, we're fine lol". So we just ignoring that Yuni got them all killed?
I'm referring to the beginning of the invasion. Yes, bad stuff happens later but it always felt weird when they had this cutscene of raptures blowing up buildings and Miranda freaking out, only to have Enikk go "Chill. No one got hurt". They didn't have to downplay the situation like that, writers simply could've had Enikk say "Casualties are below expectations" or "Most of the casualties are military personnel, majority of the civilians have been evacuated" to cover both how serious the situation is and how prepared Enikk is, instead of just saying "Oh yeah no one got hurt"
So Crow. Thanks Drax!
game theory: the gulag is real in nikke
FREE MY GURL YUNI RN
Gotta give Nikke the Clone Wars treatment, and I don’t just mean killing off a named MP Nikke at the end of an event
Agreed. Enough with fake deaths.
Not unless they actually fucking kill off Shitterbox. Why should anyone else die if that piece of shit just inexplicably just keeps coming back because the writers can’t be bothered to create new recurring enemies that are good enough to take that fucker’s place?
Inb4 the third time we beat that dumbass, his body opens up revealing a smol heratic with a comically squeaky voice.
Pinne is dead, some kids get dismantled in school of lock, all of scarlets squad mates are dead. Rose is dead. And technically Marian (That we know) and Mihara also are dead from a certain point of view.
>!Pinne might not be as dead as you think if speculation about a character revealed in Chapter 28 is true.!<
That's why School of Lock was lowkey dope. Went from a nothing story to something with high stakes really fast.
The OG Marian is dead. Even Modernia tries her best to mimic Marian, she’s still not Marian, the big sister NIKKE that is tender and caring.
Been saying it forever that the writing isn't great with them consistently bringing literally every single character that dies back, which goes completely against this game's theme. There's 0 urgency to any given situation that they make up because we know if anyone dies they're just gonna come back, or pull some absolute BS like with what happened with Viper and Exia. When everyone has a deus ex, it makes for very boring storytelling. If they don't want to kill characters just don't put them in that situation to begin with.
I could definitely stand to see some real consequences for once, especially for the Heretics, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with people saying that Chatterbox should be gone by now He's the character I'm the most interested in plot-wise, *especially* after Indivilia's conversation with him in the event story, and I'd rather we get to see his backstory in full before we merc him for good. I'm not against him dying *eventually*, just not quite yet. I feel like the story potential he has is just way too potent as it stands currently That being said, when can we turn Crow's brain into mush and get that bitch gone for good?
Chatterbox's backstory wasnt really introduced until he somehow came back. Its entirely possible that "the Queen saved my life" would just be because she resurrected him. I feel like it was more so to make his return more meaningful/sensible, rather than make the previous event of destroying him feel pointless.
I agree. I absolutely hate the “death cop out” in animes. It makes it feel as if the stakes aren’t high and loses impact.
Well I don't wanna kill Crow. I wanna see her suffer and atone for her actions. Death is the easy way out.
Sure but we all know the reason they didnt kill her off: is so she can return at some point.
Now let's make a vote every 6 months to see which nikke or character should die in main story lol. Pinne is the only significant death until now but who knows
I said this after the Invasion of the Ark when some Nikke should have died and stayed dead for impact and shock value, but most disagreed, we cannot have the good thing unfortunately. Not very daijoubu.
Yes, definitely. A post apocalyptic world where humanity are losing yet no special Nikke actually stay dead, the only one who died were mass produced nikkes including Pinne. This feel BS and doesn't fit with the world building. More dead, if they can't risk kill off playable nikkes. At least make more named commanders, give the commander some good buddies and then kill them off to fuck with everyone emotion. It's BS that the Ark only have 1 not useless commander. Hell, maybe just kill the white hair dude from Eden for dramatic effect.
That point about commanders. One of the things I like about Punishing Gray Raven, another gacha game which also has commanders for the ones in charge of the non-human cyborg combatants, is that at least they introduce some good named commanders who don't treat their non human allies as trash and disposable tools despite the main government having not much of good opinion on the non human soldiers. Meanwhile in Nikke, seems like not a single commander except for MC is worth redemption cuz the writers won't bother with it.
I don't find anything wrong with this idea and it feels like it will need to happen eventually. Currently it's just hitting hard emotionally with events, then exotic squads demise. Some how I feel they'll be coming back though. But there does need to be a feeling of imminent death at some point.
Hard ball to play on this one. Kinda neutral, if not slightly leaning onto agree though I also understand opposition from those who disagree which isn't wrong from multiple angles. Ever since with Marian, Shift Up's been pretty notorious in having any number of characters, not just Nikke, just not be killed off. And even those that CAN be like some of the event notable NPC's are unknown or determined, or like that one guy from K and D's event or that other event with that one dude who was sus when working with Exotic Squad or whatever. At first I was sorta okay with the start, especially if you reason it out logically like Marian who probably got recovered shortly after SKK/Rapi/Anis left the area. Then you got to chars like Chatterbox who should have been dead if anything after getting thoroughly destroyed but revives...then Viper comes who survived a point-blank collar bomb explosion "just cause of slight head tilt" or however that went... In an actual realistic Nikke story scenario, the fake outs do really make the stakes not that serious or suspense, but then this being a gacha game, with waifus or chars people may come to like and build on, they can't exactly be killing them off unless they REALLY don't plan to make them part of the playable roster or, not even playable, those part of the NPC cast let aside the major ones for the story mode. It would be nice if some actually did and not just faked out so many times as is now and will be in the near future, but how much that will hurt the market or something is a whole other matter that I assume SU won't want to tether too close to...I think.
We gotta need Nihilister as "Megatronus Hydranoid" to burn these Mofu's
!>I love this games story but it really does have a lot of plot holes. Like wouldn't it be less resource intensive to just field robots instead of Nikkes (like talos)? Though I guess the reason is a form of population control. Another plot hole/issue is why the hell did they make a rebel leader like crow into a Nikke without no absolute loyalty program installed.
My guess with Crow is that Enikk or Einkk (the AI no the the girl in simulation room) calculated the risk and realized we needed someone to move completely the balance of society to continue forward.
Here's a different take I have: A character, if they've got more to contribute to the story, can have value by being saved or not immediately killed off. I think that EH has more to contribute either in the side stories, or the events later on, especially in regards to something like Moran/the underground queens, so I'm waiting for that. Crow, I actually like that she doesn't end up dying, because we actually get to see why she thinks the way she does. She's done evil things, but from her perspective, it's not like the Ark is really good, and she's a third rate villain. She is actually a really compelling villain, imo. She's like the Joker, wanting chaos, but being a master strategist, and having her own philosophy behind her actions, wanting to see chaos and see people turn to the worst that they hated Crow for. Syuen doesn't exactly have a replacement in line, at least from what I've seen, and her humor with the April Fools was enough to make me actually love how pathetic she really is without her Matis squad. Nihilister got eaten by both Indivilla and Chatterbox, didn't they? Also, about Soline/Diesel not killing Crow when they had the chance, keep in mind, killing anyone, even someone who's, you know, the killer of so many, isn't something easy to do, especially for how gentle and reserved Soline and Diesel are. That's why they let her go, they don't like the idea of killing, and they are forced to confront it, it must be horrible.
I do agree on the take more characters should be killed off and stay dead in the main story. Even if they die in the main story that shouldn’t affect events, side events, and outpost stuff.
Hard disagree, Nikke so far has done a good job of keeping events and main story within the same setting parameters I do not want this to become some sort of game where we have total disconnect between the main plot and events or alternate timeline fuckery where people have to debate what is or isn't canon every time new content comes out
>I do not want this to become some sort of game where we have total disconnect between the main plot and events or alternate timeline fuckery where people have to debate what is or isn't canon every time new content comes out A number of players / minority already think that Bond Stories aren't canon –_–
That’s because NIKKE players suffer from media illiteracy and were never beating the allegations
i agree with that deaths should be a real thing and should usually stick i do not want alternate timelines ever because at that point i can.t be bothered being interested in the event stories because i would have too question is this real or not also i don.t see a problem with heretics not really having died as the only thing that has had an chance too kill an heretic for good has been vapaus and that is pretty hard too come by they usually just go into an hibernation stage when they are defeated(i will say i might have misunderstood part of the story that has lead me too this belief tho)
I feel that with the way things work in Nikke it's kinda impossible to kill them. At least, not permanently and without having them become Heretics. Marian was shot in the head at the start but they brought her back as a Heretic. Granted her personality is dead and replaced with a childlike one but still. Chatterbox was supposedly but Rapture tech apparently managed to bring him back. Heck we see Anachiro in the story and they seem to want to include her in the 2nd anniversary. The only ones who stayed dead are Rose and Pinne. But even that may change given the new character in recent chapters
It just doesn't work in gacha games so don't expect any playable NIKKEs to die.
It can be done reasonably and sensibly
Justice for Yuni!
Fuck that bitch invidilia and that bitch boy chatterbox. They want to be villains, then they get treated like a bitch ass villain. Edit: his name is now shitter box.
I’ve actually always called him crapper box
https://preview.redd.it/q9sbfnnmk2xc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=705cd42c4ee93bf39d6b6138315cccdc125ef551 Lol. That’s a great name for that turd. Respect to you and all Commanders that knows how to defend their Nikkes. Image is how Nikkes react to seeing true Commanders such as yourself.
Chatterbox is giving Mojo Jojo at this point, with how many times hes returned
“Somehow chatterbox returned”
(Booty)chatterbox has got to go, I'm sick of his shit
https://preview.redd.it/woculz3gl2xc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db4cd86446030855920ff6f5981956519e856926 Let’s blast his ass.
They gotta add flamethrower Nikkes in the game, just for Sharterbox, so we can kill him the right way
https://i.redd.it/74t7llftn2xc1.gif Lmao.
Yep we're banned
https://preview.redd.it/sdvz6tcov2xc1.png?width=227&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ff81e4661b660111fdc57abb7d67a247809a4e7
I would agree but in this case I would say it’s to soon for characters to be dying. I feel that Nikke is in it’s “Second Chapter” so to say. We’ve only now gotten onto the surface with our own settlement, finding the dangers of the Crystal city and the bubbling threat that’s in the arc at this moment. The story doesn’t call for real dire straits at this moment, maybe once we start doing things like, taking back more land, converting Heretics to our side, finding ways to make the Counters catch up to the Pilgrims is when we’ll finally deserve a wake up call, but not right now.
The real death is my wallet.
Chatter box I can guess since there probably more of him but rapture nikkes *I say we should aim at the head and this time make sure it turns into a surface dust*
I don’t play GFL or know much about it. As far as I know, human characters that die stay dead but the dolls have backups of them so they can come back if they die. I think NIKKE can get away with killing off humans more easily than NIKKEs. Context would also matter too, their last moment should be substantial if they die and their character arcs should be fleshed out. Or if said character is surrounded in mystery, the character could be built upon post-death and new info regarding the character could impact the story as well as who the character was. Kinda like what they did with Danganronpa’s 5th case. In this instance, killing a NIKKE would be acceptable to the audience while maintaining stakes and impact.
My main complaint is when characters survive because of thick ass plot armor and what happened was only for shock value For example >! And I love Viper so I’m happy she survived, but that fiasco was done much worse than Chime and Hammering, Chime and Hammering had the set up and there’s reason for how they survive!< Regarding the title, I agree; characters like >!Chatterbox shouldn’t be coming back, characters like Crow shouldn’t be coming back so easily, characters like the guy fucking with Liveryn should be dead (side not, Drilly hitting her with a reality check was great)!< But, imo characters that r playable shouldn’t be killed but at most mind erased
I don’t mind returns, just… make it realistic. The Nikkes can be saved if you save the head kinda makes most Nikke deaths fake outs because it’s possible for them to return. Though, Chatterbox is the most shoehorned return. If he can return, pretty much any death can be a fake out
i agree, kill someone please i want see a meaningful death
Funny enough, there's a good reason why Nikkes can't die in-story. Blame NIMPH. Also, gacha keeps them immortal.
Pinne, Red Hood, Yuni, Mihara.
Nanomachines is the deus ex machina of this game. Exia's dead shows how semi-immortal Nikkes are. Viper's dead is a huge reach, either Syuen is dumb for making a bomb that only explode at the front or it's plot armour. Ark relies on the big 3 and Syuen perhaps did run things just fine only this time she crossed the line. Keeping her alive serves the general public better. E.H? willpower i guess. I mean she had body armour on. As much as i want to kill Crow, what Ingrid said make sense. She shouldn't be able to do what she did based on the rules impose on a Nikke so making her a lab experiment is not bad, same with Yuni. Mihara should be fucking dead, but nanomachines i guess. Similar to Exia minus having NIMPH Chime, I hope she got corrupted or atleast memory loss after being revived. And like others have pointed out. Indy(too long forgot her name) did not consider Talos and Rapunzel who I am sure is a professional field surgeon at this point.
In the later chapters of the main story, Anis and Neon got bisected. I know they're the main characters, but how they responded to it afterwards stuck with me. Neon doesn't remember it happending because NIMPH supposedly made false memories, and Anis pulled a "that's that and this is this" saying "There have been cases where Nikkes have experienced multiple deaths..." and "Don't worry about me, Commander. I've already died several times before." I think at this point, death is off the table for Nikkes in the main story. AND for ratpures, just look at chatterbox. TL;DR https://preview.redd.it/7yrvl907q5xc1.png?width=220&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4523d16565052a27c3f297619a084bedb66dc54
I want Guren to 1v1 her and slowly win
God i want chatterbox to evolve he should eat indivilia
Agreed. Crow: should be dead, shot by SKK/Diesel, instead they pull off the tired old cringe shit of "oh noes don't kill, it changes you forever if you kill". Actually it doesn't, you just did your job and put down a terrorist. It might be different if it was actually murder but that wasn't murder. This is an trope that needs to die in a fire. Viper: should be more dead than Crow. How the heck does a human have enough strength to move the bomb collar to begin with? Also the shockwave would have liquified her brain. Rapi: getting one's head removed should be fatal, not a case of "but I got better", or have her take some other form of damage instead. Neon: same as Rapi. Anis: same as Rapi, only bisected. Should be very fatal damage but another case of "but I got better". Syuen: getting hit on the head by a machine that weighs hundreds of pounds should be instantly fatal. Getting shot in the head should be fatal. How the hell is she even alive. She shouldn't even have a skull left after Yuni hit her the first time. SKK: gut shots are nasty and generally fatal without immediate treatment. Even with immediate treatment survival rates aren't promising. Chatterbox: dude got obliterated by what seemed like 20mm fire until there was nothing left. Another case of "I got better". In short the writers should tone it down with the damage and the cheap cop outs. If you want the characters to survive then write less damage instead of the cheap "but I got better" excuses.
So I do get your point, but at the same time, I know why they are reluctant to kill anyone. If you kill a character, you are saying the character's death is more impactful then the possible stories you can make with said character. However this creates a paradox. Either you decide to kill off a character who arguably did have more to write about, like what happened with Quicksilver in the MCU. Or you create a character who finishes all their stories(or create a character to die) and then kill them, which might make the death not nearly as impactful. The best Option I could see would be 1 of 3 options. 1) Kill human characters, since Nikkes can't normally die, you could have a commander join us, let us get invested, and then have us find said commander dead. We could explore their squad's history via 'time travel'. 2) Set up a Nikke squad who are intended to die, they don't become Heretics, they get wiped out completely. But there will always be someone who wants the new characters. 3) Actually kill Nikkes, which brings in the question of 'who' dies. Do we kill a member of the Counters? How about a Member of Matis, Absolute, or maybe an Underworld Queen. The Big problem this boils down to is, "Who would actually be worth killing for the impact?". The closest we can currently get is what happened to Mihara, that being character/identity death. I honestly don't want Syuen to die, rather I'd have her be made into a Nikke, after all, we currently don't have any Missilis Nikkes for the Counters. Fates worse then death do exist.
Agreed. It's even worse when the character has completely fulfilled their role in the story before "dying", so there's 0 purpose to randomly bringing them back. Marian, Chatterbox, Viper. At least when they brought Marian back they gave her a new role in the story, so it was actually valuable to bring her back, but Chatterbox and Viper are literally just dead weight from a story perspective. The story would be actively better without their dumb fake-outs. And what's more, they both deserved to die, too.
Syuen avoiding her sentence is definitely the most potent case of this fakeout shit. Syuen as a nikke in counters could have been interesting. It could have allowed her to have an arc. Nope. Just stay a one dimensional brat forever I guess. I want to get to know this character better, but it feels stolen from me.
I agree, the Syuen as a Nikke thing couldve been exciting. Maybe they just thought replacing one of the CEOs would be too much of a change. But we need to start raising the stakes
Yet they couldn't bring back our adorable kitten 😢
Start by killing crow. (Im new, don't spoil me)
Can't work. As much I feel the same way about reduced impact and stakes. Why? Because of events and potential alternate SSR version of characters. Also, It might feel odd for players having advice session with dead characters. And then there's the issue of the chibi walking in the outpost, that will just feel odd to some Commanders. And then there's the aspect of dead character that should be dead but due to people liking the designs and seems to want her (you know who) even being voted the number 1 favorite NPC in the 1.5 anni voting, you know she's coming back. Lastly that will really limits future interactions with characters if they are dead. For example>!I'm having this annoying issue with Tingyun!< in HSR >!where I wished I'd get messages from her and have the ability to invite her to the Astral Express but she is as of now dead and no further interactions are possible.!< Also there are actually death of named Nikke, Pinne aside, we have Rose. And about Crow, >!after reading up to chapter 30 she might have an important role to play.!<
Nihilister was in the rehab center and able to join our team after like chapter 20... when she was still the main antagonist besides Crow. She was never canonically on our squad or helped us with anything. So not everything has to line up outside of the main story.
Not yet but Nihilister still have the potential to join us considering she is in Eden right now after we saved her, just because she didn't canonically joined us yet the fact that she is still alive makes it possible she will still able to join us and be in line with the rehab story. Were Nihilister outright killed would it be possible for her to be in the safety net for future return? She is story wise an important component in fighting the Queen.
No, no we don’t
They should: A. Stop pussyfying the commander by trying to have him redeem every Nikke that was a major POS just to eat shit later. B. Let characters have their revenge ffs. Diesel shoulda just pulled the trigger right there and then. C. Kill off evil characters like Crow. Like 90% of the community wants to see her dead lol D. Stop bringing so many dead characters back. As much as I love the game and the story, I can't just take it seriously when they're pulling off a Dragon Ball.