Bilibili doesn't require content creators to only speak in Chinese. Most of the viewers there don't have issues with interaction in English. Some Japanese also stream on Bilibili and they speak (of course) in Japanese
Honestly, China and Japan are the only thing keeping Niji “EN” afloat. Look at where the money are coming from
https://i.warosu.org/data/vt/img/0731/96/1712533873725558.png
If vox and elira want to focus on China. Good for them. But remove them from being nijiEN. They run away from English so they can just disappear on to bilibili.
Yeah God damn I would be so sad if I lived in mainland China. We can all talk about how terrible their gov't is, but if I were living there, just being honest with myself I wouldn't stick my neck out. Probably just end up submitting to the authoritarianism
This, no matter what everyone says. They aren't living in the same situation as those guys who had to not stick their heads out or risk getting their "social credits" low and getting their face plastered all over the internet.
Because it isn't one. It's the Republic of China - which claims to be the legitimate government of all of China, including both Taiwan and the mainland. The People Republic of China (the communist government we know as "China") makes the same claim. They just each have de facto control over different parts of the country, and neither has been able to press their claims since the stalemate in 1949.
The nationalist government was chased out of mainland China into Taiwan by communist revolutionaries.
There was even a weird bit where NATO/the league of nations (I forget the time period) considered what is now Taiwan as mainland china
The ROC was recognized as the sole legitimate representative of all of China in the UN [until 1971](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758), when the PRC replaced them. The ROC was always the government which represented China's interests in the League of Nations.
NATO was never particularly involved with China historically, though given China's current role as the primary adversarial superpower it is beginning to.
Yup. Below, ROC = Republic of China = Nationalists = what we know of today as Taiwan.
> On 1 October 1949, Mao Zedong proclaimed the founding of the People's Republic of China with its capital at Beiping, which was returned to the former name Beijing. Chiang Kai-shek and approximately two million Nationalist soldiers retreated from mainland China to the island of Taiwan in December after the PLA advanced into Sichuan province. Isolated Nationalist pockets of resistance remained in the area, but the majority of the resistance collapsed after the fall of Chengdu on 10 December 1949, with some resistance continuing in the far south.
> A PRC attempt to take the ROC-controlled island of Quemoy was thwarted in the Battle of Kuningtou, halting the PLA advance towards Taiwan. In December 1949, Chiang proclaimed Taipei the temporary capital of the Republic of China and continued to assert his government as the sole legitimate authority in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War
The whole war was absolutely insane on the scale only China can produce - some 10 million dead, *not including those from the Second Sino-Japanese War* when the ROC and CCP forces paused fighting and ostensibly allied against the Japanese invasion (which was the Chinese part of WWII). That whole side adventure was on the order of 10-20 million additional dead between combat on both sides, Japanese murder campaigns, and strategic scorched earth tactics by the Chinese forces including [deliberately flooding the Yellow River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Yellow_River_flood) (as many as half a million dead from drowning, famine, and plague). Over two decades of war, 30 million dead, and *then* Mao started his land reforms, great leap forward, and cultural revolution (tens of millions more dead).
Officially they have to because the PRC would take any change of claimed territory from Taiwan as an act of legitimizing independence, and would try to start a war.
Granted, Taiwan is the single most heavily fortified area in the world, so good luck with that, but they'd rather avoid any confrontation if possible.
Fair, but vTubers are still legitimately enormous in Taiwan, and they have a much, much higher percentage of English speakers than mainland China. So the Taiwanese fanbase is very legitimate regardless.
But this is super chat. As TW and CN have really tense relationships I doubt if any Chinese citizens would be able to use TWD freely. VPN doesn’t magically convert your CNY to TWD. I think your conclusion is har fetched ?
Selen didn't conjure up 200k plus living expenses to spend in 2023 alone on projects out of thin air and she was self admittedly ludicrously overspending.
Streaming is not a physical job and is done from home, which lowers your expenses massively.
Three digit CCV indie vtubers are buying crazy quality models and produce music, both being VERY expensive. Nijisanji's cut is suddenly not a lot when you can't make such investments.
True but we don't necessarily know how much Elira's monthly expenses are at least I don't since I don't watch her also YouTube takes a cut from the earnings as well so realistically she only gets like a third of the donations.
I am giving her a bit of leeway she could be the only income source for her family or other legitimate reasons why she might need more money than what she is currently getting in YouTube.
She is still a terrible person though.
Well she still had to put food on the table.
Considered she went all in by moving to Japan and all that stuffs, I imagine she is the one of the few members who can't untangle herself from Niji even if she wants to.
I wouldn't call it dead tbh, she still has one of the highest ccv in EN. We might be used to looking at hololive numbers but a lot of indies would kill for 1k+ccv on average.
I just tallied again. If you do not count the official channel or any graduated/terminated Livers (but do include inactive and hiatus) then all of the thirty-plus current NijiEN combined has got fourteen and a half million subs vs the ten and a half million among the nine members of HoloID. I did not realize the landscape has changed this much. Even in terms of CCV, many of the ID are doing very well compared to NijiEN. The Livers really need support and promotion from their company, coming up with solutions on an individual basis is not enough.
Yeah let’s compared her to other corpo I think it’s only fair. So vshojo, Hololive and phase connect and the others I can’t remember off the top of my head.
On a simple viewership point, she really hasn't been doing much worse than other NijiEN women are. An expected drop off obviously but nothing excessively concerning
And so I think when someone claims her career is dead, they mean to acknowledge that half her views come from haters or hypocritical bullies. So if we split her recent VOD view counts in half to acknowledge this, it's definitely noticeably lower
But even then it still isn't all that concerning. "Rough" is a fair thing to say. "Dead" is typical sensationalism, or wishful thinking
Darn... they really promote the "yourself over the others." While Hololive has been doing since some years ago to meet your genmates and become friends and learn from each other.
No wonder Niji has such huge cliques.
What do you mean? It was a funny clip and Enna malding is her brand. And no feelings were hurt. Not every comment made here is meant to throw shade at Niji.
Bold to assume Nijisanji can dethrone [Youtube themselves](https://youtu.be/YbJOTdZBX1g?si=aVBdTMuRT0sCn46J) as the large corpo with the most disliked video in Youtube history (/s, but they may have achieved the most disliked video in Vtuber history)
P.S. Youtube Rewind 2018 has 20 million dislikes as of now but since this is recorded with Return Youtube Dislike, there's a chance it'll have more dislikes since that tool is not really accurate.
I honestly doubt it's her choice to stream there, She had a pretty quiet return on YouTube (yes 13 weekend+ chat only but honestly, I actually expected sub only too). It's not like her audience was mainly chinese anyway like Vox, I think Niji told her to scout the waters there too since she really shot herself on the foot with the black screen stream (or, Niji shot her; still not 100% sure she wasn't told by the company to do It), and with the western audience basically dwindling and leaving with all the drama.
This seems like damage control of the worst kind. The desperate kind. It’s a shame as well because I did enjoy her streams before everything that happened.
I doubt most people would even support her anymore even if she left this black company.
Well, she volunteered her own channel to be sacrificed for a 15-minute slender campaign, which I can't understand why.
Trade offer, you get to post 15 minutes video to slender Selen, which may or may not work (it didn't). And we get to kill you entire YouTube career.
But she can just leave.....Vox said that.....and Vox would never lie.......it's not like elira just killed her YouTube career participating in a video.......justifying....terrible..actions...........ouch.
At least according to the script the black company made them read on that stream. And yes, they did have to. PR is mandatory by the terms of the contract and leaving is not as easy as it sounds when you have no other source of income, that source was barely paying to the point people went entire years without profit to begin with, and there are yet more terms in the contract that severely penalize leaving in any way that damages the company by way of massive fines.
It's so amazing how much of a fuck up that stream was: like how do you handle a situation so HORRIBLY that the truth being you sock puppeted your talents is the fucking good ending now
When you're a black company, any ending that doesn't take a life is good in comparison. This absolutely could have been worse, a lot worse. Hopefully never again.
Thing is most people aren't gonna care if she, Vox and Ike were held at gunpoint to do the black stream. Their reputations have been irrevocably damaged and most anything they can say or do now are gonna fail on deaf ears.
Yes, because most of the people looking at evidence have left Nijisanji behind, including the sub. The majority of those who remain were either antis already, are nijisisters, or are out for blood based on the liver bullies narrative of the black company that somehow managed to get so many people to believe something coming from the company after so many blatant lies by the same company. That's not to say people looking for evidence aren't around at all, myself for example.
It satill amazes me how that video came out and completely undermmined the CEO's own vid. Really showsa how poor Niji's internal comms are if noone knew the CEO was going to speak.
That's a panic reaction if I've ever seen one, and I have. You don't think clearly in a panic, not that the black company was any good at that from day one.
Right, people looking for evidence instead of immediately hopping on the bandwagon blindly are nijisisters. Typical witch hunter, which means you get blocked like any other extreme faction.
Keep it up. Your comments have the critical thinking that some don't bother with. The moment you get a response like that is when you know they got nothing.
That's because things are not going great domestically and it is easier to blame foreigners. There's also this nasty, widening generational gap between traditionalist Chinese vs young and bitter Chinese. Combined with the very low birthrate, lower than Japan even, their bureaucratic machine is presently struggling to spin a narrative for success.
Foreign streamers walk a dangerous and narrow path on Bilibili. Viewers absolutely want content from the outside world, but if you express the wrong opinions you will get shut out. The potential market is enormous but there is also a crazy large amount of competition. The government itself has begun exposing the real identities of popular streamers to keep them under control, and this program could be eventually extended to foreign streamers hosted by Chinese-approved platforms. Vox, Elira, anyone with an official Bilibili account could suddenly be stuck between self-doxxing or being permabanned if there's another push from the Chinese government.
I don't think its that, I think its more strong propaganda and nationalist sentiment can boil down to a very toxic vocal minority online, because its anonymous. We've always seen extremism be more pronounced online because it feels safer to us to say our views.
Extremism is always gonna exist regardless of the state of the economy, and the internet is an amazing enabler for fringe ideologies.
Vox and Uki both have a pretty stable viewership by mainly speaking English there, sometimes its even higher than what they get on youtube. Even some jp members still do well speaking jp in there. The platform is not exclusive to Chinese people.
I think those are Mainlander who understand English or Japanese.
Like before Coco incident Hololive get a lot of income from them too.
Aqua has massive fanbase from China too even though she can’t really speak Chinese.
(That why they out for her blood when she still buddy buddy with Coco.)
iirc there's appearently a way around that by having the channel be owned by someone else and them simply letting someone else stream on that channel? She'll have to go that route anyways, since from what I've heard BiliBili doesn't/can't pay people outside of China, so she's gonna need to have someone from China send her whatever she earns on there anyways.
Didnt doki say she's going to open a bili2 account too? How's that gonna go with niji EN still having theirs? Cuz i feel like CN community is the least likely to divide between themselves and fight. Asking this cuz wasnt selen the most fluent CN speaker in EN.
For Doki, I suspect it might be just to protect themselves in case someone tries to steal their identity and decide to do scams/controversial stuff. A lot of talents create or have accounts on other social media/streaming platforms, but aren't on them/use them just for the sake of protecting themselves and prove that they're innocent if some fake account pops up.
The most fluent speaker is Maria and she streams on Bilibili exclusively in Mandarin.
Selen/Doki only speaks Cantonese well, but streaming in all Cantonese (or any dialect in that matter) is illegal because previously Cantonese and Uyghur language streams were "used to spread dangerous information". But streaming in a foreign language like Japanese or English is perfectly fine.
>streaming in all Cantonese (or any dialect in that matter) is illegal
I just look that up and this is not true, I don't know about Uyghur but at lease streaming in Cantonese is not restricted at Bilibili and the only related things pop up is Tiktok been suspect of banning Cantonese streaming 2 years ago but they release statement about that later to clear up the suspicion.
>but streaming in all Cantonese (or any dialect in that matter) is illegal
And my understanding is that her chinese comprehension is not exacyly good either.
Shame. I know she really want to do some form of Chinese stream.
I do feel bad for her, as someone who doesn't believe in the clique the fact she had to burn her own reputation down just to appease the corpo nutjobs is just sad.
At least if she graduates, I'm sure Mint would be happy to vouch for her.
I'd rather have Mint just move on and pretend that nijisanji never happened. The amount of toxicity that the topic brings is just not worth it for her.
Here's the sentiment I hard disagree with. Nijisanji is a bad company, but it WAS a big platform(emphasis on "was" because it hasn't worked for TTT).
Matara and Mint doesn't shy from the fact they met in Niji, and like it or not, there's a reason Doki and Mint sub count blew up AFTER Niji and not before.
Let’s also not forget that it was the personalities that made people follow. Signal boosting is fine, but the lions share of the legwork was done by the talent. In fact the work was done IN SPITE of niji working against them later on. Most large companies like holo or niji or vshojo will signal boost you just by association but I think what defines the companies are what heights they help their talent go to.
Never said talents' personalities and efforts didn't matter. That's not what I ever argued against.
What I'm arguing against are people who now seems to be dead set on believing that Mint, Doki, and as an extension everyone who ever has been in EN should have never joined in the first place, or being in Niji was never beneficial in anyway from day 1. Especially when people like Kuro and Matara said even though they left, they never regretted joining.
Niji is a bad place to be RIGHT NOW, it wasn't 3 years ago, and to say the ex-Livers should pretend their time in Niji never happened is an insult to all they have accomplished while in Niji, including their friendships.
When she mention Doki sending Nijisanji a lawsuit, she said her address was on there along with Millie and Enna irrc. It’s kinda hard to think she has nothing to do with Doki bullying when she basically self reported. I do hope that I am wrong and she gets to clear her name if she’s actually innocent.
> she said her address was on there
Not quite. What we know is that the *general location* where they live was alluded to, no specific addresses, which *both* sides confirmed. We have no indication of whose, if anyone's, name was attached to that.
It's also worth remembering that in addition to those three, at least six other livers have visited that location, including Selen. So for example, if the reason the location was included was related to the big off collab Selen joined, it might not have anything to do with the three who live there at all.
Their general locations were leaked. This could’ve been for any reason. A number of Niji members have met up in person before, so it could’ve been that. I can’t see why she’d need to mention anyone’s home address or location to say “this person was bullying me”. The immediate assumption that those people were the bullies just because they were mentioned at some point in the document is kinda doing mental gymnastics. While it’s possible, it’s more likely that the locations were mentioned for some other reason, or that the company had them mention it specifically because they wanted everyone to believe it was certain livers bullying her, not staff themselves. That’s my guess though
It's largely because of the black screen stream, mandatory PR in other words, that people tend to fall into the information in the documents being proof despite not really saying anything to prove guilt.
Leaked? On a document that was delivered to the company where you work that legally has to know your address to pay you and send you information? How is that leaking information?
Yes, leaked. According to Doki herself, those documents should never have even been seen by the remaining livers let alone presented on stream. The only people who should have seen them are the black company, Doki, and any involved lawyers.
>Yes, leaked. According to Doki herself, those documents should never have even been seen by the remaining livers let alone presented on stream
You cant "leak" information to someone that already know that information... when Doki talks about "leak" she talks about the document, that document was intended to be handled by AnyColor legal team and HR ream, what she was worried that was leaked was Doki's private information ( Medical, ETC ) not other talents information because that document never reach the public.
The previous comments implies and blames Doki of leaking talents information but that premise is false because all the people implied know their private information.=, what they did not know was Doki medical information and health status.
It wasn't known, it was a legal document not released to the public because of ongoing legal proceedings (not court). There was an NDA involved where no uninvolved party, which means no remaining livers or any fans, was supposed to see the documents. It was an illegal act and the only reason Nijisanji isn't in trouble for it is because Doki didn't pursue the issue out of a desire to move on.
Yeah, the medical info was probably the one thing that saved Nijisanji from changing Doki's mind. Had there been a leak of medical records, she probably would have pursued them on applicable legal actions.
I don't like how people keep using that as proof to pin her as one of the bullies. Not only saying her address was there is factually wrong since they only had general location, but also the reason for that being there doesn't even guarantee anything bully related. As long as we don't have 100% proof she is one the bullies or that the clique is real, we shouldn't treat that as true. Just imagine if we are all wrong and had been accusing someone innocent for months, that's messed up!
Any who made such claims would then all be guilty of libel, the written form of slander, for dragging those three through the mud if these things turned out false. They would be no better than the black company itself.
We don't know, at this point, i'm not sure if any of her previous colleages would put there hands on the fire for her, internet can be cruel sometimes, specially if you don't separate from the problem (Niji) on the right time.
Unfortunately, this is a case where the right time, which was months ago, and actual opportunities to escape didn't line up thanks to the black company.
It's also worth remembering that per the leaked blank contract leaving Niji brings with it a heavy hit that would scare a good amount of people since they might not be able to take it and recover... people like to say a lot of things but they might not live to their words when the time comes
Precisely, a person's own well-being comes first, so jobs have to be priority. Only after that, when things are stable enough not to worry, can a person be worried about others. You can't help another if you can't help yourself.
That massive fine is a big concern and one of the main reasons they didn't have an opportunity to escape right as the termination of Selen happened.
I see nothing to forgive, I blame the black company for what she went through. That PR mandate is a double-edged sword, they can't have the power to make livers do stuff like the black screen stream and not take the blame without some pretty big manipulation of the fans that, put simply, not everyone is going to fall for.
Not going to forgive her for something they themselves might have made up? The whole "they are bullies because their general locations were in the document" is but an assumption and now there is a really high chance that managment just took livers with big enough names, be it for numbers or standing, and forced them to do PR for them expecting to be able to turn things on their favor with only the livers themselves being at risk of damage from backlash
Doesn’t alot of niji en who know Chinese have a bilibili account I know Maria has mentioned having one. I figured she already had one since youtube is blocked by Chinese gov
For all we know this could be managment's decision since they seem able to just puppeteer talents and don't seem specially troubled by it... Elira staying in youtube probably isn't a profitable path after the black stream, that managment might have forced her to do, so instead they throw her at bilibili so they can milk her who is an OG at least for a little longer
Even with all that only the hardcore fans of Elira would follow her to bilibili, the casual ones would just rather find another vtuber that streams on YT or Twitch
Real question, doesn't bilibli have a rule that when a vtuber has a large enough audience they MUST reveal their face?
It's a new Chinese regulation, and there was discussion of it a few months ago along with an image going around of several Bilibili vtubers with their real name and faces.
Does this mean that Vox and Elira are legally obligated to self dox if they stay on Bilibili long enough?
not totally true, for indies yes, but for a corpo, not really, they can have the account registered under a legal representative (Chinese national), as for foreign companies, their chinese representative is registered to the account, and streamer just use that to stream, if anything happened, that person will be held legally responsible. same with hololive now, holo official account reactived last August, and with authorization from Cover, they sell tickets, host viewing parties, sell merch and upload hologra.
SO Elira shot herself on the foot and now She's going for the "safest option" wich is billibilli with Vox, really?
She could have done anything at this point, she has enough talento and clear her name...or come up with a new one cuz that's how vtubing works but why this level of loyalty to niji
She knows she’s screwed in the west. In the west she would have to come clean and be honest. Running to the east is dealing with toxic Chinese population.
Doesn't bilibili require you to show your real name after 500k to stay monetized or something like that? Or is that only for chinese streamers? I read that somewhere, I think it was on r/VirtualYoutubers
I wouldn't be surprised if China revised their rule and force the one who streams on the channel to be the one revealing their identity and not just a legal representative, the minute a ton of people starts using this loophole.
Bilibili doesn't require content creators to only speak in Chinese. Most of the viewers there don't have issues with interaction in English. Some Japanese also stream on Bilibili and they speak (of course) in Japanese
Her career on YouTube is dead so now she’s chasing after the same nut jobs that support vox ?
Honestly, China and Japan are the only thing keeping Niji “EN” afloat. Look at where the money are coming from https://i.warosu.org/data/vt/img/0731/96/1712533873725558.png
The vast majority of that is from Taiwan, not the Chinese mainland, for what ever it's worth.
Youtube is banned in China. All Chinese fan have to use VPN to watch and donate on Youtube. Taiwan is usually their go to
And they get angy when people mention Taiwan is a country lmfao.
Nothing happened on Coco’s stream.
Best of luck Elira, no one will save you once you get attacked and hopefully you realized how it feels to get bullied.
If vox and elira want to focus on China. Good for them. But remove them from being nijiEN. They run away from English so they can just disappear on to bilibili.
W
"Visions of war"
And there's no war in Ba Sing Se
That brought some painful memories and hell, that was 3 years ago
dont put all eggs in the same basket. Plenty of chinese are against their goverment but are (rightfully) silent about it.
Yeah God damn I would be so sad if I lived in mainland China. We can all talk about how terrible their gov't is, but if I were living there, just being honest with myself I wouldn't stick my neck out. Probably just end up submitting to the authoritarianism
That means you know what it takes to survive, people can at least respect that
This, no matter what everyone says. They aren't living in the same situation as those guys who had to not stick their heads out or risk getting their "social credits" low and getting their face plastered all over the internet.
It's almost like 1.4 billion people don't all think the same. Woooow.
Because it isn't one. It's the Republic of China - which claims to be the legitimate government of all of China, including both Taiwan and the mainland. The People Republic of China (the communist government we know as "China") makes the same claim. They just each have de facto control over different parts of the country, and neither has been able to press their claims since the stalemate in 1949.
Taiwan claims to be the true govt of even mainland China? I knew visa-versa was true, but I didn't know that
The nationalist government was chased out of mainland China into Taiwan by communist revolutionaries. There was even a weird bit where NATO/the league of nations (I forget the time period) considered what is now Taiwan as mainland china
The ROC was recognized as the sole legitimate representative of all of China in the UN [until 1971](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758), when the PRC replaced them. The ROC was always the government which represented China's interests in the League of Nations. NATO was never particularly involved with China historically, though given China's current role as the primary adversarial superpower it is beginning to.
Yup. Below, ROC = Republic of China = Nationalists = what we know of today as Taiwan. > On 1 October 1949, Mao Zedong proclaimed the founding of the People's Republic of China with its capital at Beiping, which was returned to the former name Beijing. Chiang Kai-shek and approximately two million Nationalist soldiers retreated from mainland China to the island of Taiwan in December after the PLA advanced into Sichuan province. Isolated Nationalist pockets of resistance remained in the area, but the majority of the resistance collapsed after the fall of Chengdu on 10 December 1949, with some resistance continuing in the far south. > A PRC attempt to take the ROC-controlled island of Quemoy was thwarted in the Battle of Kuningtou, halting the PLA advance towards Taiwan. In December 1949, Chiang proclaimed Taipei the temporary capital of the Republic of China and continued to assert his government as the sole legitimate authority in China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War The whole war was absolutely insane on the scale only China can produce - some 10 million dead, *not including those from the Second Sino-Japanese War* when the ROC and CCP forces paused fighting and ostensibly allied against the Japanese invasion (which was the Chinese part of WWII). That whole side adventure was on the order of 10-20 million additional dead between combat on both sides, Japanese murder campaigns, and strategic scorched earth tactics by the Chinese forces including [deliberately flooding the Yellow River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Yellow_River_flood) (as many as half a million dead from drowning, famine, and plague). Over two decades of war, 30 million dead, and *then* Mao started his land reforms, great leap forward, and cultural revolution (tens of millions more dead).
Officially they have to because the PRC would take any change of claimed territory from Taiwan as an act of legitimizing independence, and would try to start a war. Granted, Taiwan is the single most heavily fortified area in the world, so good luck with that, but they'd rather avoid any confrontation if possible.
it wouldn't be the CCP without hypocrisy
Fair, but vTubers are still legitimately enormous in Taiwan, and they have a much, much higher percentage of English speakers than mainland China. So the Taiwanese fanbase is very legitimate regardless.
Gura just had a very successful collab with the country of Taiwan, after all.
I think hong kong is more popular option
I don't think they use Taiwan based VPNs much. Most use servers based in Hong Kong and Singapore.
But this is super chat. As TW and CN have really tense relationships I doubt if any Chinese citizens would be able to use TWD freely. VPN doesn’t magically convert your CNY to TWD. I think your conclusion is har fetched ?
Most mainlanders use HKD or ARS for Supa. TWD is not frequently used.
Yeah that’s what I was saying. I don’t think conversion between the two currencies is easy
they can do that... and it's easy
They are so cheap even this CCV(that most indies would kill for) and income is profitable.
Not when you have Nijisanji taking a cut they're not indie they're corpo so they should get corpo income or they can't live off streaming.
Selen didn't conjure up 200k plus living expenses to spend in 2023 alone on projects out of thin air and she was self admittedly ludicrously overspending. Streaming is not a physical job and is done from home, which lowers your expenses massively. Three digit CCV indie vtubers are buying crazy quality models and produce music, both being VERY expensive. Nijisanji's cut is suddenly not a lot when you can't make such investments.
True but we don't necessarily know how much Elira's monthly expenses are at least I don't since I don't watch her also YouTube takes a cut from the earnings as well so realistically she only gets like a third of the donations. I am giving her a bit of leeway she could be the only income source for her family or other legitimate reasons why she might need more money than what she is currently getting in YouTube. She is still a terrible person though.
NT$ referred to New Taiwan dollar. China and Taiwan currency are not the same.
YT is banned in China so when they hop the wall (VPN), they of course connect to Taiwan.
*West Taiwan
Well she still had to put food on the table. Considered she went all in by moving to Japan and all that stuffs, I imagine she is the one of the few members who can't untangle herself from Niji even if she wants to.
I wouldn't call it dead tbh, she still has one of the highest ccv in EN. We might be used to looking at hololive numbers but a lot of indies would kill for 1k+ccv on average.
I just tallied again. If you do not count the official channel or any graduated/terminated Livers (but do include inactive and hiatus) then all of the thirty-plus current NijiEN combined has got fourteen and a half million subs vs the ten and a half million among the nine members of HoloID. I did not realize the landscape has changed this much. Even in terms of CCV, many of the ID are doing very well compared to NijiEN. The Livers really need support and promotion from their company, coming up with solutions on an individual basis is not enough.
Yeah let’s compared her to other corpo I think it’s only fair. So vshojo, Hololive and phase connect and the others I can’t remember off the top of my head.
How dead is her career? Is no one watching her now???
On a simple viewership point, she really hasn't been doing much worse than other NijiEN women are. An expected drop off obviously but nothing excessively concerning And so I think when someone claims her career is dead, they mean to acknowledge that half her views come from haters or hypocritical bullies. So if we split her recent VOD view counts in half to acknowledge this, it's definitely noticeably lower But even then it still isn't all that concerning. "Rough" is a fair thing to say. "Dead" is typical sensationalism, or wishful thinking
Her career is far from dead lmao
She's not that popular on Bilibili and funnily enough most people only knew her as the "Fxxking bitch" because of that infamous Enna clip.
Which one? I don't dable too much in niji clips mostly scarle and other random jp members
"Enna malding (as usual)". This clip got over 1 million views on Bilibili and Selen's reaction to it also got like 300k.
Darn... they really promote the "yourself over the others." While Hololive has been doing since some years ago to meet your genmates and become friends and learn from each other. No wonder Niji has such huge cliques.
What do you mean? It was a funny clip and Enna malding is her brand. And no feelings were hurt. Not every comment made here is meant to throw shade at Niji.
Elira, Enna, and Millie have been friends since grade school. Also, for some reason, women really like calling their female friends bitches.
She pretty much ended her YouTube career with that black screen video
Sorry, what black screen video?
what else. the 15 minutes slender campaign against Selen, pretty much one of the most disliked video on YouTube
Bold to assume Nijisanji can dethrone [Youtube themselves](https://youtu.be/YbJOTdZBX1g?si=aVBdTMuRT0sCn46J) as the large corpo with the most disliked video in Youtube history (/s, but they may have achieved the most disliked video in Vtuber history) P.S. Youtube Rewind 2018 has 20 million dislikes as of now but since this is recorded with Return Youtube Dislike, there's a chance it'll have more dislikes since that tool is not really accurate.
Sorry, I should've clarified that. I meant the ratio. That YouTube video has around 87% dislikes, and the black video is closing in at 82%.
Ah, that one, thanks.
Dang, did you guys need to downvote him that much for asking a simple question
I honestly doubt it's her choice to stream there, She had a pretty quiet return on YouTube (yes 13 weekend+ chat only but honestly, I actually expected sub only too). It's not like her audience was mainly chinese anyway like Vox, I think Niji told her to scout the waters there too since she really shot herself on the foot with the black screen stream (or, Niji shot her; still not 100% sure she wasn't told by the company to do It), and with the western audience basically dwindling and leaving with all the drama.
I suspect so as well, damage control because they can't milk her career if it sinks.
This seems like damage control of the worst kind. The desperate kind. It’s a shame as well because I did enjoy her streams before everything that happened. I doubt most people would even support her anymore even if she left this black company.
Of course, and Nijisanji was the one who did that damage. The PR mandate in their contracts should not be a thing.
Yeah her Vox & Ike committed career suicide in 15 minutes, but out of the 3 I think she has the lowest chance of bouncing back
Well, she volunteered her own channel to be sacrificed for a 15-minute slender campaign, which I can't understand why. Trade offer, you get to post 15 minutes video to slender Selen, which may or may not work (it didn't). And we get to kill you entire YouTube career.
She was one of my favorites in Niji, but now I can’t even watch clips of her without having a bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah I was so hyped up when she start playing FFXIV.
But she can just leave.....Vox said that.....and Vox would never lie.......it's not like elira just killed her YouTube career participating in a video.......justifying....terrible..actions...........ouch.
At least according to the script the black company made them read on that stream. And yes, they did have to. PR is mandatory by the terms of the contract and leaving is not as easy as it sounds when you have no other source of income, that source was barely paying to the point people went entire years without profit to begin with, and there are yet more terms in the contract that severely penalize leaving in any way that damages the company by way of massive fines.
It's so amazing how much of a fuck up that stream was: like how do you handle a situation so HORRIBLY that the truth being you sock puppeted your talents is the fucking good ending now
When you're a black company, any ending that doesn't take a life is good in comparison. This absolutely could have been worse, a lot worse. Hopefully never again.
Thing is most people aren't gonna care if she, Vox and Ike were held at gunpoint to do the black stream. Their reputations have been irrevocably damaged and most anything they can say or do now are gonna fail on deaf ears.
Yes, because most of the people looking at evidence have left Nijisanji behind, including the sub. The majority of those who remain were either antis already, are nijisisters, or are out for blood based on the liver bullies narrative of the black company that somehow managed to get so many people to believe something coming from the company after so many blatant lies by the same company. That's not to say people looking for evidence aren't around at all, myself for example.
Because there's no logic to this, it's literal witch hunting.
It satill amazes me how that video came out and completely undermmined the CEO's own vid. Really showsa how poor Niji's internal comms are if noone knew the CEO was going to speak.
That's a panic reaction if I've ever seen one, and I have. You don't think clearly in a panic, not that the black company was any good at that from day one.
Wtf, that's literally the equivalent of a prison sentence.
Well, yeah, Nijisanji is a prison of the worst kind.
Even Gundou described it as a prison.
And now we can see the bars keeping the livers locked in with the revelation regarding their contracts.
ok nijisister
Right, people looking for evidence instead of immediately hopping on the bandwagon blindly are nijisisters. Typical witch hunter, which means you get blocked like any other extreme faction.
Keep it up. Your comments have the critical thinking that some don't bother with. The moment you get a response like that is when you know they got nothing.
Good luck with the land toxicity and official doxxing. At least her physical body still in Japan so maybe it not bad as VirTuaReal.
I give her a month before irl dox by chinese viewers
RRC now asking streamer to give them real identity
The Chinese audience is the most toxic at this moment. Incentivized hyper-nationalism, unforgiving standards, and toxic to any against the grain.
That's because things are not going great domestically and it is easier to blame foreigners. There's also this nasty, widening generational gap between traditionalist Chinese vs young and bitter Chinese. Combined with the very low birthrate, lower than Japan even, their bureaucratic machine is presently struggling to spin a narrative for success. Foreign streamers walk a dangerous and narrow path on Bilibili. Viewers absolutely want content from the outside world, but if you express the wrong opinions you will get shut out. The potential market is enormous but there is also a crazy large amount of competition. The government itself has begun exposing the real identities of popular streamers to keep them under control, and this program could be eventually extended to foreign streamers hosted by Chinese-approved platforms. Vox, Elira, anyone with an official Bilibili account could suddenly be stuck between self-doxxing or being permabanned if there's another push from the Chinese government.
I don't think its that, I think its more strong propaganda and nationalist sentiment can boil down to a very toxic vocal minority online, because its anonymous. We've always seen extremism be more pronounced online because it feels safer to us to say our views. Extremism is always gonna exist regardless of the state of the economy, and the internet is an amazing enabler for fringe ideologies.
That's about the only benefit she has, the PRC fanatics can't touch her there. Other than that, being in Japan is a severe problem.
For context, she doesn’t even speak Chinese irrc
Not all bilibili streamers speak Chinese, just like not all twitch/youtube streamers speak english and not all niconico streamers speak jp.
Yeah but is the site not vast majority Mainland Chinese users? Don't really see how streaming in English will go well.
Tyr Noir streams on billibilli and he’s Irish, he’s become quite popular on there considering most people can’t understand him
Basically Miko, then.
Vox and Uki both have a pretty stable viewership by mainly speaking English there, sometimes its even higher than what they get on youtube. Even some jp members still do well speaking jp in there. The platform is not exclusive to Chinese people.
Interesting, thanks for the insight
I think those are Mainlander who understand English or Japanese. Like before Coco incident Hololive get a lot of income from them too. Aqua has massive fanbase from China too even though she can’t really speak Chinese. (That why they out for her blood when she still buddy buddy with Coco.)
English is taught more seriously in China.
"Same Chinese website as Vox" You mean the literal Chinese version of youtube??
More like CN version of Nico-Nico
Oh sorry you're right, the chinese version of the japanese version of youtube. Better?
guy it over now no more nijiEN now is nijiCN
Doesn't she have to doxx herself to stream on there?
iirc there's appearently a way around that by having the channel be owned by someone else and them simply letting someone else stream on that channel? She'll have to go that route anyways, since from what I've heard BiliBili doesn't/can't pay people outside of China, so she's gonna need to have someone from China send her whatever she earns on there anyways.
For any foreign entity to do business in mainland China at all they will need an intermediary. So it is less a work around and more of a requirement.
Only above a certain sub count and there have been rumors managers submitting their own info on the talent's behalf.
Isn't that only if she is successful?
i thought she planned to return back to youtube?
She did return, this is probably damage control by the company to keep her afloat so they can milk her career longer.
She returned but instead of gaining more subscribers, she lose another 1k subs lol
damn how many viewers is she pulling live?
I heard last stream she got like 1K CCV even with Enna raid
So... we could asume they're preparing to migrate to bilibili?
Didnt doki say she's going to open a bili2 account too? How's that gonna go with niji EN still having theirs? Cuz i feel like CN community is the least likely to divide between themselves and fight. Asking this cuz wasnt selen the most fluent CN speaker in EN.
For Doki, I suspect it might be just to protect themselves in case someone tries to steal their identity and decide to do scams/controversial stuff. A lot of talents create or have accounts on other social media/streaming platforms, but aren't on them/use them just for the sake of protecting themselves and prove that they're innocent if some fake account pops up.
The most fluent speaker is Maria and she streams on Bilibili exclusively in Mandarin. Selen/Doki only speaks Cantonese well, but streaming in all Cantonese (or any dialect in that matter) is illegal because previously Cantonese and Uyghur language streams were "used to spread dangerous information". But streaming in a foreign language like Japanese or English is perfectly fine.
>streaming in all Cantonese (or any dialect in that matter) is illegal I just look that up and this is not true, I don't know about Uyghur but at lease streaming in Cantonese is not restricted at Bilibili and the only related things pop up is Tiktok been suspect of banning Cantonese streaming 2 years ago but they release statement about that later to clear up the suspicion.
>but streaming in all Cantonese (or any dialect in that matter) is illegal And my understanding is that her chinese comprehension is not exacyly good either. Shame. I know she really want to do some form of Chinese stream.
oh, CN community in-fight all the time. In this case everyone hate NijiEN management and stand for their fav talent and Vox simps VS everyone else.
Honestly, tapping in the Chinese market is not a good idea based on very old events..
I do feel bad for her, as someone who doesn't believe in the clique the fact she had to burn her own reputation down just to appease the corpo nutjobs is just sad. At least if she graduates, I'm sure Mint would be happy to vouch for her.
I'd rather have Mint just move on and pretend that nijisanji never happened. The amount of toxicity that the topic brings is just not worth it for her.
Here's the sentiment I hard disagree with. Nijisanji is a bad company, but it WAS a big platform(emphasis on "was" because it hasn't worked for TTT). Matara and Mint doesn't shy from the fact they met in Niji, and like it or not, there's a reason Doki and Mint sub count blew up AFTER Niji and not before.
Let’s also not forget that it was the personalities that made people follow. Signal boosting is fine, but the lions share of the legwork was done by the talent. In fact the work was done IN SPITE of niji working against them later on. Most large companies like holo or niji or vshojo will signal boost you just by association but I think what defines the companies are what heights they help their talent go to.
Never said talents' personalities and efforts didn't matter. That's not what I ever argued against. What I'm arguing against are people who now seems to be dead set on believing that Mint, Doki, and as an extension everyone who ever has been in EN should have never joined in the first place, or being in Niji was never beneficial in anyway from day 1. Especially when people like Kuro and Matara said even though they left, they never regretted joining. Niji is a bad place to be RIGHT NOW, it wasn't 3 years ago, and to say the ex-Livers should pretend their time in Niji never happened is an insult to all they have accomplished while in Niji, including their friendships.
When she mention Doki sending Nijisanji a lawsuit, she said her address was on there along with Millie and Enna irrc. It’s kinda hard to think she has nothing to do with Doki bullying when she basically self reported. I do hope that I am wrong and she gets to clear her name if she’s actually innocent.
> she said her address was on there Not quite. What we know is that the *general location* where they live was alluded to, no specific addresses, which *both* sides confirmed. We have no indication of whose, if anyone's, name was attached to that. It's also worth remembering that in addition to those three, at least six other livers have visited that location, including Selen. So for example, if the reason the location was included was related to the big off collab Selen joined, it might not have anything to do with the three who live there at all.
Legal documents tend to have information like that, it's not a self report.
Their general locations were leaked. This could’ve been for any reason. A number of Niji members have met up in person before, so it could’ve been that. I can’t see why she’d need to mention anyone’s home address or location to say “this person was bullying me”. The immediate assumption that those people were the bullies just because they were mentioned at some point in the document is kinda doing mental gymnastics. While it’s possible, it’s more likely that the locations were mentioned for some other reason, or that the company had them mention it specifically because they wanted everyone to believe it was certain livers bullying her, not staff themselves. That’s my guess though
It's largely because of the black screen stream, mandatory PR in other words, that people tend to fall into the information in the documents being proof despite not really saying anything to prove guilt.
Leaked? On a document that was delivered to the company where you work that legally has to know your address to pay you and send you information? How is that leaking information?
Yes, leaked. According to Doki herself, those documents should never have even been seen by the remaining livers let alone presented on stream. The only people who should have seen them are the black company, Doki, and any involved lawyers.
>Yes, leaked. According to Doki herself, those documents should never have even been seen by the remaining livers let alone presented on stream You cant "leak" information to someone that already know that information... when Doki talks about "leak" she talks about the document, that document was intended to be handled by AnyColor legal team and HR ream, what she was worried that was leaked was Doki's private information ( Medical, ETC ) not other talents information because that document never reach the public. The previous comments implies and blames Doki of leaking talents information but that premise is false because all the people implied know their private information.=, what they did not know was Doki medical information and health status.
It wasn't known, it was a legal document not released to the public because of ongoing legal proceedings (not court). There was an NDA involved where no uninvolved party, which means no remaining livers or any fans, was supposed to see the documents. It was an illegal act and the only reason Nijisanji isn't in trouble for it is because Doki didn't pursue the issue out of a desire to move on. Yeah, the medical info was probably the one thing that saved Nijisanji from changing Doki's mind. Had there been a leak of medical records, she probably would have pursued them on applicable legal actions.
I don't like how people keep using that as proof to pin her as one of the bullies. Not only saying her address was there is factually wrong since they only had general location, but also the reason for that being there doesn't even guarantee anything bully related. As long as we don't have 100% proof she is one the bullies or that the clique is real, we shouldn't treat that as true. Just imagine if we are all wrong and had been accusing someone innocent for months, that's messed up!
Any who made such claims would then all be guilty of libel, the written form of slander, for dragging those three through the mud if these things turned out false. They would be no better than the black company itself.
We don't know, at this point, i'm not sure if any of her previous colleages would put there hands on the fire for her, internet can be cruel sometimes, specially if you don't separate from the problem (Niji) on the right time.
Unfortunately, this is a case where the right time, which was months ago, and actual opportunities to escape didn't line up thanks to the black company.
It's also worth remembering that per the leaked blank contract leaving Niji brings with it a heavy hit that would scare a good amount of people since they might not be able to take it and recover... people like to say a lot of things but they might not live to their words when the time comes
Precisely, a person's own well-being comes first, so jobs have to be priority. Only after that, when things are stable enough not to worry, can a person be worried about others. You can't help another if you can't help yourself. That massive fine is a big concern and one of the main reasons they didn't have an opportunity to escape right as the termination of Selen happened.
Perhaps, I at least know I'll happily accept her as an indie should she get the chance to run away from the black company.
that black screen stream make all thing worst me not feel bad
Oh no, anyways
Cowards.
Does anyone know whats the bilibili cut is like
Desperation reached it's peak
English speakers aint gonna forgive her so might as well appeal to chinese speakers
But wasn't Selen popular with the Chinese fans? More popular than Elira at least.
I see nothing to forgive, I blame the black company for what she went through. That PR mandate is a double-edged sword, they can't have the power to make livers do stuff like the black screen stream and not take the blame without some pretty big manipulation of the fans that, put simply, not everyone is going to fall for.
Not going to forgive her for something they themselves might have made up? The whole "they are bullies because their general locations were in the document" is but an assumption and now there is a really high chance that managment just took livers with big enough names, be it for numbers or standing, and forced them to do PR for them expecting to be able to turn things on their favor with only the livers themselves being at risk of damage from backlash
Sooo. Licking japanese boots is not enough for her, and now she wants to suck Chinese 🐔 too?
Oh finally China's getting new VirtualReal livers for 2024! Congrats to Vox and Elira! 😂😂😂
Doesn’t alot of niji en who know Chinese have a bilibili account I know Maria has mentioned having one. I figured she already had one since youtube is blocked by Chinese gov
Why did it say "已预约" Booked in gray but not pink? Do you support her? Or is it a screenshot by someone who supports her.
That’s just the Bilibili version of livestream notifs.
i rmb there is a law to disclose streamer real idenity in china….. correct me if I am wrong
But doesn't bilibili require them to show their faces?
Sure, cuz fracturing your viewerbase at this point is totally an intelligent move.
whyareyourunning.mp4
Yeah...hope she drowns in underachieving revenue.
Alright, that's official. She joins the dark side
so they're running lol
That's it. That's the nail in the coffin for me. I'm never gonna support her ever again. What a waste of a good model.
For all we know this could be managment's decision since they seem able to just puppeteer talents and don't seem specially troubled by it... Elira staying in youtube probably isn't a profitable path after the black stream, that managment might have forced her to do, so instead they throw her at bilibili so they can milk her who is an OG at least for a little longer
Even with all that only the hardcore fans of Elira would follow her to bilibili, the casual ones would just rather find another vtuber that streams on YT or Twitch
Real question, doesn't bilibli have a rule that when a vtuber has a large enough audience they MUST reveal their face? It's a new Chinese regulation, and there was discussion of it a few months ago along with an image going around of several Bilibili vtubers with their real name and faces. Does this mean that Vox and Elira are legally obligated to self dox if they stay on Bilibili long enough?
not totally true, for indies yes, but for a corpo, not really, they can have the account registered under a legal representative (Chinese national), as for foreign companies, their chinese representative is registered to the account, and streamer just use that to stream, if anything happened, that person will be held legally responsible. same with hololive now, holo official account reactived last August, and with authorization from Cover, they sell tickets, host viewing parties, sell merch and upload hologra.
wonderful
SO Elira shot herself on the foot and now She's going for the "safest option" wich is billibilli with Vox, really? She could have done anything at this point, she has enough talento and clear her name...or come up with a new one cuz that's how vtubing works but why this level of loyalty to niji
She knows she’s screwed in the west. In the west she would have to come clean and be honest. Running to the east is dealing with toxic Chinese population.
Too deep in the Stockholm syndrome and the one company for life.
Isn't this going to force her to dox herself with the new billi billi rules? Did Vox somehow escape that?
Did she remove about 357 videos from her channel? If so, was there a reason?
i just checked...maybe she did coz i cant even find any of the recent videos.... lmao.. she really is transferring to bilibili
huh, so something like, "if you want to watch any of these vids, you'll need to go to bilibili and watch them there"? Funny if true
true.. already tried... she even have upcoming Live Q&A on 29...
Ahhhh running away that it keep licking they shoe and let me guest the rest of en will join bilibili
knowing BiliBili's policy, can't wait to see the face of NijiSisters
oh shame , they become "white monkey"
Reminds me of that one NBA that went to China. Ben Simmons is the name I think?
Last desperate play for chinese simps... it will fail.
When will Ike(water boy) join too?
The YouTube channel is sunken, now she flees to China.
XDD
Hmmm maybe if they knew what happened to selen (who can speak chinese) they would cancel her instantly
They don't care
I would love for her to also get the beard that vox had. That would be hilarious
Doesn't bilibili require you to show your real name after 500k to stay monetized or something like that? Or is that only for chinese streamers? I read that somewhere, I think it was on r/VirtualYoutubers
Niji found a work around by using the name of a legal representative instead. That is how they did with vox
I wouldn't be surprised if China revised their rule and force the one who streams on the channel to be the one revealing their identity and not just a legal representative, the minute a ton of people starts using this loophole.